The Questlove Show - Questlove Supreme: Pharoahe Monch

Episode Date: February 10, 2021

In the words of our leader today's Questlove Supreme guest is "one of the most feared, respected and astonishing MC's of all time." Also, "one of the most beautiful things about hip hop, whether you're a fan of his work with his group Organized Konfusion or his solo catalog". It is agreed that Pharoahe Monch upped the standards for lyrical MC's. How and why? Gotta listen and find out. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media.

Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clivert Show on the I-Heart Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else.

If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. When a group of women discover

they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that Trust your girlfriends Listen to the girlfriends

Trust me babe On the Iheart radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts Quest Love Supreme is a production of Iheart Radio I think the thing that fucks up roll call In the virtual sense is the yes You know like

If everybody just went around And did their thing without the yes Oh that's the fun part Some part of roll call is laughing at each other's roll call. Well, if we played it, but the guest did theirs live, but I was pre-recorded so they can hear it. We'll figure it out. We'll figure it out. All right, my good people, welcome to another episode of Questlove Supreme, Life's great rabbit hole, as I've been dubbing it.

My name is Questlove, your host, and of course we have Team Supreme. We got Laia. Yay! Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're done it. I have to say, Laia, you're in Los Angeles right now. How's it going for you out there? It's just, I'm scared to answer that question.

I will say this. We are allowed to. By the time this comes on air, you know. By the time it comes on air, we'll be allowed to eat outside again. Because I hear that we were the only ones in the country that couldn't go outside. Look at these nails. I went to a black market nail salon. They had a black curtain on the window.

You had a knock on the door. This is what we doing out. Wow, an underground, Joanne. Yeah, shit is real. Be careful. All right. When I last spoke to you, it was one in 13 people. Now it's one in 11.

I don't want the number to go down to lane. One in seven. We're getting better. We're getting better. Be careful. All right. Sugar, Steve, you cool? Yeah, you know, I'm in the same city you are.

New York. We're at a, yeah. Yeah, but things are a problem for you. You got a new network, a new show, you know. Oh, yeah. I mean, everything's going fine for me personally, but, you know, city's a mess. Country's a mess, whatever. We've always been a mess, man, but, you know, that's the one you shared the class.

We didn't like that. I'm not scared. Hold me, hold me. Anyway, um, pay bill. You okay, brother? I built a bar in my garage. Oh, great. You ordered online.

That I ordered online. I remember. online. It's completely set up right now. It has neon lights and shit. Yeah, yeah. I needed something to do. So I did it.

Just a one of one. You have a bar for one. Yeah. My kids sit at it. It's a little misdirection. Yeah, you want to keep your kids away from the bar. Yeah. And their dad,

they're going to go that way eventually. Just want to be able to drink in every single room in his house, including the garage. Absolutely. So we do with COVID. We will sit. One episode, we just might have to take over drink champs. and, you know, bring out the alcohol here. Absolutely.

West Love Supreme, you know. Was that a plug? I see Laia frowning that I gave another podcast a plug. Anyway, Fonticillo. How's it down in North Carolina, man? I'm good, bro. We're chilling. It's good.

I mean, they're trying to open up the schools where they thought about doing it. Because the kids had, they testing, like the state test. And I didn't send my son. I was just like, fuck that. Like, he ain't going. And they were just like, well, he can't. make it up, we'll try to make it up later in June, whatever. I said, whatever, he ain't going. And literally the next day after we, like, when we pulled him, we was like, because he's been

home the whole time, literally the next day they had like two cases pop up. And it's been, they, we do it now, but we pretty much get texts and emails from the principal every time a new case. And for about the past, like, two weeks, I've getting, it's been a new case like every day. Yep. And so, you know, we've been in the house, man. I still do my walks around the hood and everything, but I'm cooling, bro. Ladies and gentlemen, we have a distinct honor of dissecting and exploring the third rail or brain of one of the most, I will say, probably one of the most feared, respected and astonishing emcees. I don't want to use bad colloquialisms when describing great, you know, they always say like, oh, this person is. a monster. Oh man, he's a killer.

No. Probably an assassin. Yeah, yeah. No, I feel our guest today is probably one of the most beautiful things about the culture of hip-hop, be it as

one half of one of the most loved duos of the mid-90s with organized confusion. His own catalog is nothing to sneeze at. He's constantly pushing the boundaries. of what one can do in this art form. He's usually the favorite of your favorite emcees.

I don't know if that's a tired cliche. Like, I wonder if MCs get tired of hearing themselves being an MCM. Nah, no, man, that's an honor. I mean, that's respected. That shows you respected by the people they really do the craft. You know what I'm saying?

True. I mean, that's the highest honor. Well, he's here with us today. So please give it up for the one and only, Farrow Munch to Yes, indeed.

Bam, bam, bam, that's what I hear. I didn't want to say it, but where are you right now? I'm in the basement

of the house in Queens just chilling out through a wintry mix of snow and ice right now and like Fonte said, man,

I take my walks and then it's back inside, you know, I'm compromised because I'm mathematics so I just been like same here,

bro. Yeah, same here. It's well, I can't fucking wrong. So you've been loyal to Queens this entire time for your whole career? Pretty much. I moved out to L.A. for a couple of months to work on stuff.

And it was cool for a couple of months, then to Brooklyn and then back to Queens. So I'm back to Queens. Okay. So I know that our audience cannot see your Zoom right now. But I will say that. All the action figures. Yeah. I was going to say of all of our.

guest on the show. You probably have the most interesting background right now. Well, next to biz, at least. You have a very interesting action figure collection behind you right now. Like... Yeah, I kind of lost my mind during this pandemic.

We all do. Like I said, I've been diligent, so all I could do is, like, order stuff and go crazy. So I went bat shit crazy with the action figures. And it kind of... It worked, man. They keep me kind of stable, man. I love my action figures. There's some rare pieces that I caught,

uh, cat on, uh, Instagram, who I follow, uh, put me onto a lot of, a lot of different dope joints and a lot of different companies and I just lost my mind. Like, I just got these, uh, these Air Jordans for my Miles and Morales in the mail just now. Like, you know, so I just, oh, wait, so you, wait a minute, I thought you meant actual Jordans. You're dressing up your action figures in Jordans. Exactly. And they're rare to get as well. They're hard to get.

They're hard to get. They just redid a couple of companies who do them custom for the, you know, Miles Morales and Spider-Man. Please tell me. Please tell me they're not the same price as a full pair of 10. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no. They're cheap.

Okay, okay. Yes, just $500, not $15,000. Right. No, that's interesting. So, like, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, your passions with the action figures. Anything else in the pop culture

kind of barrel that you collect? I'm not a collector a little bit on the sneaker side, but I calm down with that. You know, it got a little bit ridiculous. I'm not ahead, but I will catch a couple of pieces if it's

if it's something interesting. But this, during this whole thing, man, it's just been movies and action figures. and action figures. What's the last joint you saw movie-wise? That was worth talking. I mean, I've been watching a lot of stuff over and over again on repeat. A revisiting?

Revisiting. And what really blew me away was the Mandalorian series. That just took me, you know, I waited so long for the Star Wars series to get good. And I never thought it would. And the movies were starting to get so disappointing. But then the series was just like, it was good and bad in a way. I felt like I had the weights I got this old for them to get this good with it. You know.

So Mandeloring is worth investing in? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was going to ask you, when did it get you? Like, when it was, when it was, was it, was it, was it off the rip? Like, I was, I was shying away from getting at the Disney app. I'm like, I'm not getting this shit. Yes.

And then everybody kept talking about it. And, yeah, it was worth, Mandelorian is worth getting that have for it. It's that good. Yo, I'm going to make a suggestion, bro. If you have a champ, whenever you get a chance, check out the sound of metal. I think you would love it.

Oh, that's the joint where the drummer loses his hearing. Yeah, man. That shit. Oh, my God. You don't know about this? Wait, thank you. Is you Louis story again? You know, like, for real.

Nah, it's your boy, Riz Ahmed. and he plays a drummer that loses hearing. It's heavy metal drummer. And I mean, you know, it's every musician's worst nightmare, but that shit is a great fucking flick. It's a beautiful flick. Which streaming service is that, Fonte? It's on Amazon. It's on Amazon.

Oh, okay. Like the whole sounds the whole soundscaping of how they show you how you're losing and tearing is incredible. Now, the sound design, that shit is amazing. Yeah, yeah. All right, I'm on it. I got to see it. I got to see it. I just got done

small acts. So. I haven't watched all of them. I watched the Lovers Rock one, but I haven't seen all the other ones. Okay. Should I watch a sequence of me or? Yeah, watching it order. Everyone's, most Jamaicans that I know rock with the second one, Lovers Rock. Okay.

Okay. I'm going to start with that one because the other one started. That's a very unique join. Yeah. But I think you'll, you'll like it. Okay. Well, if we shout now, I'm a shout out night in Miami and then I'm done. Okay.

Okay, okay. Riverdale. One night in Miami. Wait, you're just watching Riverdale, Steve? Riverdale is pretty good. Steve is, Steve is good for like, Steve will be like real like nonchaline

with like most pop culture things. But then he'll just come back with like, get more girls. Yeah, I watch Real Housewives of Atlanta or like. I don't watch that. But I have a question though. And then hopefully we could get to

into the same. interview. Mandelorian has something to do with Star Wars? Stephen, Maddell. No, don't chastise him. Star Wars been fell off and they're lucky that we're still talking about them 40 years later.

Everybody knows about Little Yoda. I mean, he's not Yoda, it's not Yoda, but little Yoda? Baby Yoda. Yeah, I mean, yeah, Mandalorian is like their series on the Disney channel and apparently it's as good, at least to the people of my age that are real Star Wars head. like they're they're very happy with the results it's better than the last three star moors movies okay I'm on yeah for sure I saw one of them that I liked but I don't know which one that was and don't worry about it and you forgot it already only saw it once you saw a fraternity Jedi 15 times okay

no no I don't mean those three I'm talking about the of the J.J. Abrams variety that one but anyway all right so with okay were you born in Queens yes sir on and raised Queens, New York, Jamaica, Jamaica, Southside, Jamaica. Okay. What, uh, okay, so I only know my New York knowledge is just limited to whatever rapper is rapping at the moment. So, like, what was your peer area like, like who,

what notable emcees that you would know of that, that you knew of before you became notable or they became notable? I mean, I was ahead, man. It's like, and I'm in, and I'm old of shit. So I came up there. the park jam era. So it was like, you know, urban legend dudes like Grandmaster Vic and the boss crew and just local hip-hop crews that were doing park jams that I was, you know, inspired by.

And like Nah said, like just way too afraid to ever get on the mic in those moments. And then it shifted to Mikey D, the incredible Mikey D in the L-L era. and I still was too afraid to get on the mic in those jams and wasn't ready. And then by the time, you know, I started going to high school and developing organized confusion, you know, that's when it was like, you know, large pro and lost boys and all those cats in the area. Right. So you were there for the first, you have memories of like the first generation of hip hop in Queens? Oh, definitely. I mean, I was a shorty, but it was it was cat's jamming.

I mean, that's what attracted me to the whole thing. Like, you know, not to sound cliche, but you could hear the music rocking from down the block and, you know, crowds and 40s. And, you know, you just, it'll never go back to that. And it was an air about that and even the danger of the shootouts. And, you know, it was just a different time and a different feeling. and culturally at that point, I was like, I need to be a part of this, but I just wasn't ready. Okay. What was your family into?

Like, what type of household did you grow up in? What was your home situation? Yeah, man, both parents, gospel on the mom's side, jazz on the pop side. My older brother was heavy into the rock, which is, you know, while I gravitated to that a lot, you know, deep purple. Zeppelin, Rush, and all the whole rest of it. Then my next brother was like, you know, James Brown and Funk, and my sister was Michael Jackson. So I had the whole gamut.

And I just, you know, just that whole 70s thing, I think we all did. And just soaked it all in, you know. Were your parents native New Yorkers? No, they're from Virginia. They moved to New York when they had me. you're the youngest I'm the youngest yeah

do you remember the first album that you purchased or was it all just trickled down from your older brothers and sisters hip-hop album or album just album period I want to start with album I have a come to Jesus moment with hip-hop

so your very first record my first record I purchased was Saturday night fever okay That's a joke. No, that's real. You don't make me my hip-hop card right now.

Man shit. We all watched a BG's documentary. Yeah. Them niggas got James. I got that shit when I was seven, you know, you, okay,

that's understandable. Concert-wise, do you remember your first one? Did you go to concerts a lot when you were a kid or see performances? I didn't. I wasn't a big concert goer when,

and I regret it, you know, because I missed so many opportunities and I'm so, shamed like uh i never i i never saw prince live like it's just so i i know your relationship with that guy but it's just things like that that i that i regret also you know it was we were in queens and it was a journey to get to where everything was anyway so i i was kind of like nerd dude too so i wasn't venturing out that much back then like that

Okay. So what was your come to Jesus' moment, at least with hip hop as far as that's concerned? Like, were you just casually rapping around the way, or was this the thing where you were watching MCs on the block and decided that's what I want to do? Like, what was your introduction to that world? I was a crazy ill asthmatic, and I knew I had to make a choice that wasn't physical in terms of what I was going to do with my life. in terms of my livelihood. It wasn't happening. Fireman wasn't happening. Garbage man wasn't happening.

So I was an artist. So I went to a high school of art and design. Big up to Kwame, big up to Prodigy, Mob Deep. Oh, you went to that school. Yeah, went to that same school. Shit. And in that school was just a plethora of culture.

Black books, graffiti, just hip-hop culture was rich at the time. And I just, you know, before it became, you know, cool even to be an MC or get a record deal, I knew I had to be invested in the culture. So I'm very thankful for those moments because, you know, I was pop blocking and, you know, I was way too heavy to get on the ground and do a windmill and some shit. So I knew I couldn't be a break dancer. But I was just trying to get into the culture however I could in that time frame. And it was around 11th grade that I was like, fuck the art shit. I expressed myself through this hip hop.

Even then, I was beatboxing. I didn't, you know, I had no voice. I was horrible at it. Matt Prince Paul had my friend Tysick who had turntables. And I was like, yo, let's go and try and develop something. Made a couple of demo tapes. took them home and listened to them. And I'm thankful again to be able to listen.

You know, I listened back to those tapes when I took them home. And I was like, you're horrible at this shit, you know? You still have those tapes? I do. It was the wacky shit I ever heard. But I was lucky to be able to hear that I wasn't good. And it didn't sound like the dudes in the park. And it didn't sound like the stuff on the radio, which made me say,

you got to work at this shit, bro. You know, I was able to say that to myself before I had let anybody hear what we were doing. But so when you and Paul, who's the oldest between y'all? I'm probably the oldest by a couple of months, yeah.

Oh, okay. Well, y'all, y'all both went to the same school. Y'all was in the same class, whatever. Gotcha. And both of you were art majors? Oh, man, back then, they had what was called rotation, so we were able to do photography,

computer graphics, architecture. It was just, the school was an amazing, you know, a ray of different cultures, kids from different backgrounds. It really shaped, obviously, a lot of the people who went to that school. So that was a blessing in itself. I know, or at least I know from the folklore of it all, that I believe you were one of the last artist to work with Paul C.

And I assume that this is pre-organized, or at least pre-record deal, pre-Hollywood basics. Where did he enter this story and how, you know, he's one of the most loved mythical figures that I've heard of in hip-hop. Like, everyone has these like incredible words, but I can never get any story about his work ethic or anything about him. Like, what was his role in, well, you were simply too positive before. organized confusion, right? I believe. Yeah, man. We were simply too positive. We had just left like a local label situation and went off on our journey to start working on our first demo. I thought I was finding my voice at the moment.

I was starting to get some props with the bars as an MC. And we went into the legendary 1212 to work on some demos. In 1212 at the time was I probably see. 17-year-old large professor in the corner, just on a machine, I didn't know what he was doing. And we went to the studio with some records, laid some vocals. And during the time we were laying vocals, Paul C was an engineer at 1212 as well as a producer. He walked into our session to get some wires. And he was like, pardon me, excuse me, I don't mean interrupt your session.

Got some wires, and he left. next day I got a phone call from him I don't know how he got the number and he was like I heard what y'all was doing I think y'all got talent I would love to work with y'all and I had asthma attack

I was so excited did you was he at least you know I don't know what year this was was this at least post ultramagnetic yeah right he had that

he had that status of working with Ultra Super Lover Sea and even maybe some early Rockham stuff at the time if I if I can't remember. So it was just, you know, if you can imagine

it was just like the ultimate phone call. So we went in and worked with him and I bought in some different things that we were working on. And he was a stickler for truncation and programming, you know,

gave a lot of tulidge too large, and I credit both of them for a lot of that early SB1200 manipulation. It was very early on, and they were really doing some real amazing work with that. And why I love Paul C is that I went in to do a song, and like a lot of MCs at that time,

I went past the 16-bar measure, he stops the session, closes the session, and sends me home, like, when you learn how to count bars, come back and talk to me. And I thought I was, wow. I, you know, I was getting a little name at the time and nobody had ever told me some shit like that, but he was just like,

who's your favorite, you know, artists? I'm like, P.E. He was like, go listen to those records. Learn how to fucking rap, learn how to count until you do that. don't come back to the studio. So that was the first, like, dude who wasn't a yes man and started to help us shape our voices and understand how to make records.

We made really, really four good songs for the demo with him that went on to touch Bob Bito's hands and Russell Simmons' hands. And, you know, but more than that, you know, he just used to invite us his crib. He had a insane record collection, played drums. It's like

even in this conversation there's no need to mention that he was white because he was just an entity of like some soul spirit or some shit, you know, and so funky and whatever.

Back then, was that the novelty? Like, yo, how does this white boy know our shit better than us? Or like, how, you know. You know, it's funny, man. It's like, you know, you have to put these things in context. In that moment, I don't, I don't think we gave a fuck.

Like, we really didn't. Like, it wasn't even, uh, yeah, it wasn't even a question. We were just like, we need good shit. Yeah. And I think, too, you know. And I think, too, at that time, hip hop was so kind of young. I don't even know if we were thinking about it as quote unquote hours, you know what I'm saying? In terms of black people.

like, yo, this is our shit. It was so new that if you found someone else that was into it, whether they were black, white, whatever, it's just like, oh, they fuck with hip hop just like me. Like, that didn't happen until later on. Right. And so we developed a personal relationship outside of the music. I remember us going to see Batman and, you know, and putting the raisinets and the popcorn and, like, you're not up on this shit?

I'm like, raising nuts in the pipe. you know, just cool, cool moments. And then the tragedy is we finished the demo. It was touching people's hands, and we were getting a buzz, and he got murdered. And that's kind of like the first of a line of kind of traumatic, tragic things that happened. And so me and Prince, you know,

had to go forward and try to get a record deal, but we didn't have our guy, are kind of guide and that's why that first album is like really kind of experimental because in that moment we lost the the master ranger

and we just was like taking records to the studio and shit and looping stuff and just doing ideas and you know went back to fuck the bar count you know right yeah so yeah that released hypnotic gasses

that was no bar count on that joke. So basically had a situation that turned out, had a turnout, he would have probably been the main producer of organized confusion. Absolutely.

Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Well, that's the thing. Now, the way that the source first introduced you guys to the world, like they've made such a big deal of Disney having a record label that you know it was kind of like

wait a minute there's a rap group one like the way they did it I didn't see it as like Hollywood basic like just I don't even know why they had to put like a subsidiary area of Disney records so I kind of like pushed it to the side

like I lowered my expectations a lot and I jumped on it you know once I heard instrumentals and whatnot then it was like yo that Disney rap group really is dope. Like, I just kept because I kept on. Because real rap, the only thing they had on Hollywood was like, it was y'all, and I remember

you, Lifeers Group, like the jail niggers that made the album? Yeah. Right. Lifeers Group. I produced a record for them. Me and Prince produced a record for those groups. We literally went into the prison and had to do that shit. And in a far as a maximum security prison. That's a whole nother of it.

No, no, no, no. No. No. No. We had that. I've never heard the story. So, you know, we're on the label and we got a little buzz, you know, from, you know, underground shit, fudge, pudge, yada, yada. And I'm there like, yo, you know, Dave Funkinclined. Let me just give you a little history on him. Yeah, I was going to ask you about him, yeah. Right. It's responsible for, like, bring tribe and jungle brothers over to the Europe scene.

very instrumental and that whole thing and breaking a lot of things over there in Europe he's that he was that dude and he was a visionary and I guess he got himself

a record label over there and got himself a nice team with Tim Reed you know and so it was it was live they just didn't have their aesthetic you know their aesthetic was fucked up with the Mickey Mouse

six of right wait a minute you mean Tim Reed the third The same Tim Reed that worked with us at MCN? Yeah. You have Tim Reed's a 12-inch that he will never share with me. Do you have it? Do you have it?

Please do you, I'm going to the prison. The Rollway State Prison in New Jersey. The group was called Life was group because all the members were doing life sentences. Dave Funkin-Kline thought this would be a great idea because you don't get no harder than cats that are doing life in prison. And I was like, I don't know if this is a good idea. But hey, cut the check, we'll go produce the record.

And I never forget going in there my first time in maximum security prison. They slammed the gates behind us. and they tasked me and Prince with picking from 10 inmates the five that would be in the group. Can you already see the tragic mistake that that is? So these guys had to rap and we had to pick which ones was the best. Wow. Oh, no.

I was like, this is going to go terribly wrong. and I remember, you know, we picked the five for a week. They were working on the music. They were working on the songs. When we go to come back, we're like, what's up with the other two guys we picked? Shanked, staff.

Wow. No. No. You're no longer in the group. You have to pick another two. No. No. Come all.

It was that wild. Holy shit. And so you, did y'all like make the beats in the prison and everything or like tracked and everything? We tracked some stuff in the prison, bought like, you know, a portable recorder to the prison for them to record. Oh, my God, y'all are killing me. You know, this is the greatest story. I've never heard of you. All the years we've known each other.

I've had no idea you produced fucking lifers group, dude. Yeah, man. We did two songs on that project. I got a fun Wow Did like you ever keep in touch With any of those guys afterwards Did they ride or whatever

Or You did Traxon got the hell on No Yeah You should see the look at his eyes Like next question please Wow

Moving on Oh my God Okay So Were there any other options Besides Hollywood basic And why were were they chosen to be the home of organized confusion?

Barbito was ANR at, uh, death jams at the time. He was like, this demo is insane. I love this demo. I love these guys. I just did, uh, him and stretched up the day. He's still, you know, my peoples and my fans, it's been so many years. We, we, we've been tight and cool.

And he had the demo and he had Naz's demo. He took them to Russell. and he was like these two demos are amazing and Russell Simmons rejected both demos Oh God Yeah that's one brand for Russell Yeah simply two positive and not

Turn them both down And then we were like What are we going to do? What are we going to do? Got the offer from the Hollywood Basic That was kind of Really nice offer for underground hip hop back then And we were like hey fucking

We'll fly we'll fly to Disney land and you know record whatever and then last minute I seen Russell in a club

and he was like you know what I've been listening to you guys demo call me tomorrow let's have a conversation so we're like oh shit

death jams oh shit and we called Russell Simmons the next day to talk about a deal and he said, first off, simply too positive

is the worst fucking name in hip hop that I've ever heard. What? Gotta change the name. Gotta change the fucking name. We were like, nah, it's STP, you know. STP, you know, the oil. And he was like, that shit is the most fucked up name

I've ever heard in hip-hop. It just sounds like a venereal disease. No way I'm sorry. I mean, y'all with that name. We got to come in with a better name. You got to come on with an ill name. That's how we listened to organized confusion.

Took us 48 hours. Seen an organized confunction record. Organized confusion. Oh, wait, that's how you named the group. Organized confusion? Yep. From the Confunction album? Yep.

We were like, oxymoron, boom, boop, sounds good. You're this and that. You could do these moves. do that moves. You can wear this, I can wear that. Let's do it. Wow. Let's do it. And you went back to Russell, like, okay, we changed our names.

So now what's up? Okay, we changed our names now. What's up? And he offered us like 80 grand. Hollywood basic deal was like 150 grand. And so we took the money. Hey, okay. As you damn well should have. I see.

Because this is what, In 90, what? Like, you remember like, what year was, 80? Probably 90. Probably 90. It'd be 91, right? Yeah. Because that was the first time, they were hurting.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, that period of Def Jam. Yeah. Yeah. I would, you know, I just feel like I heard these rumors of giving shelves and shit never coming out and these horror stories. And I was like, ah, I don't want to go down that load, you know. That's crazy. Well, at least then, because I know, like, reeking.

I used to dream of being on deaf jam. Everybody did. Yeah, so it was such a, it was like going to Motown. So for you to make the, what you felt was the wiser decision of the group, I mean, that, that's, that says a lot of what was Def Jam at the time for you to walk away from this fabled hip hop utopian space and just go to Mickey Mouse's new home. I've made a lot I've made more terrible decisions on the way on the road to but I don't know man

I don't know if that I don't know if it would have worked out who's the sake you know do you know I know at least from if I get it a little bit then I know you get it

a lot do you kind of roll your eyes at like super fans who salivate over you know I mean there's so much especially with, well, I guess with all three, with Equinox and stress and the self-titled record,

the folklore of it, or like, is it, I don't know, like sometimes Tariga's frustrated where like every MC after MC comes up and praises his work, but then it's like you don't necessarily see the evidence of, of, you know, your hard work. And, I mean, does it get tiring? hearing that year after year of like how much you influenced me and how much you influenced me and yet this couldn't translate in the cells and you know at least to that level of what it was

back in 91 definitely i think after the first record we were a little bit perplexed um because we we saw a little bit of you know play and whatever but we were inexperienced so we talked it off to that, you know, I'm wanting to believe you have to stay in love with the shit, but I can see how during that era, a lot of cats were finding out more and more about the industry was kind of not sure about this girl anymore, like kind of falling out of love with it. And I kind of decided that you can't do this unless you're going to love it, love it, love it, regardless to the outcome. And so I stayed in love and we moved on from the self-titled record to the stress record.

I think we, you know, started to really find our voices around that record, you know, got a little more love and pushed a little more forward with the stress record and a couple of joints off there in terms of folklore and different songs on that record. and then I think we had it with Mickey Mouse after that record and then we moved on to Priority right Yeah we moved on to priority

Where it was It was weird Because at the time they They had kind of signed A bunch of established people And they I didn't see where they didn't break any records And I was feeling like we still needed to be

broken as a group, even though we were two albums deep. And we worked on that last one, and we really put a lot into it. You know, I was trying to do this whole story thing and back forward. You know, put a lot of effort into it. A little bit of love, a lot of bit of love. I think people saw it. It's very difficult to do those type of records and make them make sense anyway.

I love that record, man. Yeah, thank you. I love that record. Mm-hmm. Yeah. you know, a lot of people would be like, yo, that's my favorite one of the three, but, you know.

It's my favorite one of the three. Which one? At Equinox, because that was, that came out like 97, so that was my first freshman year at Central. And I remember getting my refund check and running the goddamn Willie's, records and tapes.

Willis. I bought a gang of shit. And I bought the Equinox. I remember when I first, yeah, I remember when I first met you, you were like, yo, I love his record and a lot of skits and

so on and so forth. Yeah. Who did the Sir Winston Howard McQuay? Who was that? Was that you? No, no, no. So my guy, Brian Fleming, who's a writer now, he found this guy in the neighborhood. Like, I think he was in a liquor store and this dude was like, and he was like, hey, man, you want to do

some skits on this album? Wow. He just had this. voice and we just bought him is fucking incredible. Yeah, yeah. Hey, um, it just, it just hit me that, um, I believe the first time that I

heard of OC was on your first album. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So how, yeah, how did, uh, how did he get down, uh, with the click in, in, in the recording? O.C had moved from Brooklyn across the street from, from, from me.

in the neighborhood you know back then we were playing you know two-hand touch in the street and still playing basketball and all that shit you know I would knock on people doors and be like yo we get in the game you want to play and you know

one day he was like yo I rap and I was like oh god and he rhymed and I was like holy shit oh shit this kid it might be a problem. And we just, you know, started hanging out.

And we would trade and spa and he would be like, yo, I wrote something. And he would come over to the house, do verses and wrap over, you know, pause tapes and shit. And I was like, yo, man, you got it, man. You got something special. I just think he, for me, O.C. always had a knack for pocket,

you know, just command of pocket that I could never obtain. It's just something people have that's just they lock in, you know? Wow. So, yeah, he lived right across the street for me. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clever Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement

to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends.

I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no.

I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Ego Wadam. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network.

It's Will Ferrell. Woo. Woo! My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means. But I just know the groundlings.

I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you. Which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration.

It would not be on a calendar of. you know, the cat just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. On the stress album, I always wanted to know, this shows you how much of a dweeb I am.

I believe your stress review in the source was the infamous. Tupac Hellraiser issue Mm-hmm And I also believe that they had you write Hip Hop's very first op-ed I believe Yeah, when you talk about Like the rhymes you erode

And you clicked on the SP and Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's funny, you remember that part. I just remember the Chinese chicken wing Take out Chinese food reference That shows you how different we are. This is super. I remember the food reference.

No, that, you know, that was, history won't, won't pan out how crucial that, that issue of the source was to hip hop's future. You know, because basically I feel like that, that Tupac cover is what built the myth and the legend of Tupac. And, you know, it's one of their highest selling issues. but I also remember it simply because the the you know you guys had the leave review for that album and you know that's the first time that I heard of like like a separation like okay so there's underground hip hop and then there's accessible easy to understand hip hop you know it was almost as if the reviewer of the album

was kind of at a crossroads because he and his heart felt that this was the perfect album he was listening to. But because he knew that it was going to go over everyone's heads, he might have to take a mic away.

So it was almost like... We got four mics. Yeah, I got four. I remember that. Right, but he basically said I would give this album a five, but because this is so above head of anyone else that I, you know, I just have to take a mic away because it's too smart. I was crushed.

That's another moment. That's another moment where I was like, you know what? I don't know if I want to do this shit anymore because I'm starting to see that this shit is not based on the merit. So. It ain't based on the music either. Yeah. And so that those are the things like in the relationship, if you will. With the music, you start to question your commitment and your love to it.

And you have to keep reassessing and recommitting yourself to it. But that was one of the moments I was like, you're going to start this article off with, I would have gave them. Yeah. And I kept like, I guess I vicariously was living through you guys. you know because at that moment we were just starting to make our record and then you know when I read that I was like

oh man he's basically saying that this album's too smart for its own good and had they just did a little bit of terra firma down to earth like make it normal I would have easily shown why this is a five mic record

and that always horny me but I never ever got to ask you how that felt like you're dope but you're too dope so we have to penalize you for that it was crushing i mean i don't i don't know if i don't know if i expected a five it was a solid record and i thought we had a chance to get a five and then you know i i would have been fine if you wouldn't have put that bit in there like oh these guys almost moved me to a boy But I'm not going to do that because you wrapped about particles of molecules and fucking, you know, whatever the case may be.

You remember who the writer was on that review? Was it like the original Mine Squad dudes? Yeah, it was, ah, damn, that's the one, was it Ron, in Real? Shit, my, all my, my, my sources at work. All right. I remember around the time, Farrow, you, um, I read an interview around the time of Equinox. and you were saying that I think Poe was saying

like yo let's get back in the studio let's go at it again and you told him like look man I gotta be real like my heart really ain't in this shit you know right now what was that like yeah

it was I can't remember what it was I mean I imagine it had to be like a source yeah he was and I read it I was like damn like he being real you know what I'm saying but yeah what was that like for you and Poe kind of that for y'all to both be in different places

and how did that affect y'all both, you know, personally and professionally in terms of your relationship? I mean, we're good and we was good then. I felt it only right to go to him, you know, talk to him how I was feeling. I was crushed as the results of the last record. We put a lot into it. It ended with the group getting dropped from priority.

And that kind of hurt my, ego, but gave me some time after we worked so hard on that record, and I was like, I definitely, you know, talking to myself and sleeping on it, I definitely don't feel like

going back in the studio right now. That's the last thing I want to do. So I need some time to kind of recoup and assess my relationship with music again. Because I knew it was important, you know,

you need to love love love you need to love this shit and I knew I loved it but I needed to take a step back and I'm you know I had that discussion with him I'm like I'm tapped out like I'm really tapped out I need to take a hiatus and during that time

I realized that I just had a lot of personal things that if I was to recommit myself to this that I needed to get off my chest that I even felt would be unfair to drag him into because, you know, in a group you're sharing so much and you're making these compromises and you're making these, you know, decisions collectively to put records together. And I just came out on the other side. Like, I really felt it would be selfish to drag him. I feel like I

like I would be dragging him into these ideas that I was having. And so went back to him again and was like, yo, I think I'm going to try to vomit some of this stuff out. And he was like, yo, man, you got my blessings. You know what I mean? So I went on that journey. I have actually three creative questions about your work in organized confusion. Well, for starters, how do you guys build ideas and your songs?

Is it, well, first of all, even with the production, you know, do you guys work on beats separate or was it a collaborative effort? And at that, like, does the concept of the song come at the beginning or does it just whoever adds the verse first, then that's the concept of the song? As soon as we landed the deal We went out and got SB 1200s And we started just banging our beats With the crew of cats And in Queens as well Who were the organisms

And they were working on music as well And I started going out To these record conventions The famous record conventions That are, you know, finesse and large And Salam and Tippin Salam and Tipping

and everybody would be at, and I would see them in there, and they're my heroes, and they would be buying these $80 records, and I would be like, wow, that must be nice. And we would, you know, look for stuff, and then once I developed a relationship with those dudes, they started to be like, you got this, you got this, you know this guy, you know this guy, you got this, you need to get this. And I started to, you know, begin to get my chops up with, on the digging side,

And we started to, you know, produce all music. And I gravitated to what I knew, which was, you know, my brothers again, the weather report and a lot of the fusion shit, which kind of the landscape of things I wanted to the rap over personally. And so just started putting stuff together and taking it to the studio and trying to make it better and getting with the right engineers and things like that. So Prince would make a beat we would make a beat together. We would be like, what is this?

You know, we would sit there and be like, what is this song saying? What are we doing? Or I would come with a concept and be like, what if we're unborn fetuses and the mother's... And that was my shit too. In vitro, nigger, I ran, man, I ran the hell out of the damn song. Right, right. And then, you know, shout out to Buck Wild and then around that same time

we're working with OG too man y'all shit where OG was great that decision's record I love that record thank you Anton Puchowski was was bringing live instrumentations to a lot of the early shit and just pushing us along and

it was a collective effort to answer your to answer your question so I always wanted to know because you guys were so advanced like way past where Ultramatetic was taking it because you guys were so advanced and sort of rapping outside the boundaries of

you know outside the boundaries coloring outside the lines was it frustrating to have such not limitations as far as what hip-hop music could have been but I would always I could imagine I always thought of you guys as sort of like advanced air

a hip-hop, well, at the time I was saying you guys were a future hip-hop, that kind of got stuck with a palette of limited music output. Like, if you guys could easily figure out ways to program the 1,200

so that you could rhyme 7, 8 meter here and then slow down there, and things that you could easily do now on Pro Tools and and, you know, in reason... Abel to the shit, yeah. Yeah, and all these. So, was it... Or even things like, you know, where Ghostface just rhymes

over an album. Like, I always wanted to know, like, shit, if you guys could rhyme over Frank Zappa or a Mahavisu orchestra, just like, you guys would have been those people. So, like, was there ever musical moments that you tried an idea that was

just like way too ahead of his time, at least technology-wise? I was frustrated then, which made me happy because I knew what I wanted to do was expansive. you know, and I would listen to bands and they would play a groove at a tempo

and then break it down and do a beautiful transition into a slower, more beautiful tempo. And I was like, how am I, you know, how are we going to achieve this with what we're trying to do? And that's kind of what brought about that hypnotical gases song, which starts at one tempo and goes into another tempo. We didn't know how to program it at the time.

so we started off with that one loop that slow loop and goes into the diffusion shit I remember Anton Tchowski having to cut the two inch tape in order to get this shit to work and you think back to things like that

and he's literally like I gotta get this shit right you know he's literally slicing the tape I know y'all know Yeah. You know, and I wanted to go and I wanted to go into the faster beat as if the band

was doing that. You know, that was in my head. But I had no other way to achieve it. You know what I'm saying? Like I didn't know how to, you know, which kind of brings this full circle, you know, moving forward.

I didn't know how to achieve that in terms of the programming and the sample time. I don't believe we had 950s at the time. you know so I'm like how are we going to get this idea out of my head and we did it and it's one of the records that

organized confusion is most known for okay without without without uh without without want to be starting something how frustrating was it

for you as an NT as an MTC I gave you power I'm motherfucking how do you know I've been doing this show for a little while man Yeah, how frustrating was it for you to hear just, you know, without being condescending, like mortal, mortal hip-hop fans just salivate over I gave you power when. When you did a straight bullet like years before. You already did straight bullet, like how.

And didn't have to tell people that you were a gun at the beginning of the song. That's the thing I hate about. I gave you power. It's like I'm a motherfucking Oh, the Nause song. I was going to f-out. I was going to figure it out. Yeah.

Hey, the thing is real hip-hop heads. Real hip-hop heads will cry foul. Has anybody ever told Naz that people hate that intro to that song? Yo, it's, you know, between, between I gave you power and the way that Drey says Naz's name. Ah.

Oh, my son. Nass. Nah. Fucking Dre. Mother fucking Dre. and all that to lead into like the work yeah but that was

sorry I took half of mic off just for those two intros yeah but basically like yeah um you know it brings it brings it back so many

just what we're dealing with today from our lens the fucking allure and the love we got for spray bullet was just insane you know we would perform that record and it would be like

like the crowd would be like insane. So from our lens, we were getting the love and the props from that record and the writing and the reviews. We were like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. When I gave you power came out, I was like, oh my God, that's fucking, it's fucking premiere.

Like, what can you say? And then, um, and then Nas is like one of my favorite MCs, like, like literally. And that's just so, uh, the rush of people that came to us like, he bit your shit,

man, oh, he bit your shit. But, but as a artist, I don't think he bit it. I just don't think he listened to know.

Right. And that, that was, that was another thing. But the crew, the crews were, the crews were interconnected in a different way. Because OC was with search light and it was,

you know, shit. Mm-hmm. But, for real as an artist I didn't I didn't feel away like oh man you know I just

I didn't get those feelings from it it's like you know as Tarek says like some still sharp and still shit and what you're going to do next I say that to say later in life I find myself

in the back seat of a range rover with Nause having a conversation and now says, you know what, man? A lot of people, you know what I mean? They said, you know, they came to me, they said, yo, man, you know, Farrow, man, did that shit before you, man.

And, you know, we had a lot of similar shit, me. So, you know, as the foundation, you know, we need to, you know, we need to. So we had a discussion about it. But, yeah, I never really felt like, oh my God that's my concept I never really felt that way you know I still maintain that

I don't think Nas listens to that much at least most MCs I know that on that level don't agree with you because I don't listen to I don't it's like a handful of people that I listen to when I'm recording and then do we even listen to people that are more as artists you know what I mean

yeah you're aware of I do yeah Y'all have to be. You're all such experts. So how are you going to be such an expert on stuff? Because I listen in the off season, but when, usually when you're creating your thing and you're in your own bubble. Yeah, you're locked in. Yeah, you don't want to listen to other people so that you don't get, you know. But even if it happened afterwards.

Yeah, I guess you're right. Yeah, I listen to stuff like you have to listen like so you know what not to do if nothing else. It's more of just kind of a, it's like, all right, if I know, like if I'm working on an album now, I'll listen to Farrow album and be like, okay, I know not to do this. he covered that already. You know what I mean? That's how far as it go. Has Rieke ever told you? I know for a fact

that a big part of Tarek's development, especially on things fall apart. Like, you know, I mean, there's the period for those that listen to the show. And I guess I can ask you this as well, Farrell. If you're,

if you're creating this music in the, the mid to late 90s and the early aughts. You know, there's usually in your head like a jury that you imagine, you know, listening to this and that you have to have it to that standard. So I know for a fact that Jesus Christ, like, Tariq would run the shit out of Equinox. Like, every night at, like religiously. Like, that was his, that was his.

that was his rocky music to get him hype for the show like literally like it was like I gotta get to this level I want this level and this level of respect did he ever tell you like how much that that album meant to him

when we when we talk we just we just do verses of each other's and different shit and I'd be like the fifth to make it all come together like the zipper on the butter level you know like shit that right just

you know Just amazing shit. Nothing specific, but that, like, you have to know that, um, I, I imagine that when I, when I turn in an album that Fonté and Thornt and Royce and different other cats, you know, are at a big fucking oak table and they're like, now let's, let's us listen to this. Like the last one. Yeah. That's real.

What is that? So what is that in 2020, 2021? Because the thing is that we don't have that. Like right now I'm current, this will be the first album I created in which I'm in, you know, in my mind I always kept like, okay,

the source is still a thing in my mind and I have to have that level of perfection. and like I'm still striving for that 4.5 rating that I want, even though it doesn't exist now. So what is that for you in your head when you're creating things? Or is this now you're just in a place where you just create for yourself? That's what I did on this new project. I deconstructed all the shit that I don't like. and, you know, a lot of stuff I would listen to and be like,

this doesn't have any replay value for me. Why doesn't have any replay value for you? And what can you do when you do your shit that's going to give something some replay value? You know, the lyricism work is really, really good right now. Just being a good or great MC is just not good enough anymore for me. it's like, you know, people can fucking rap now. People have been rapping for 30 years now more. Like, what, you know, what more is it?

You know, just to hear somebody that's nice, it's like, yeah, he's nice. And then I would kind of drift away from it. What can you do to make people retain some information or, you know, I know, I think I'm going to listen to that song. for a second time. And it has to do obviously way more with arranging and

melody and chorus and bars as well. So in that time I'm just like let me step away and focus. Still keeping in the mind that I want you guys to hear this shit

you know because I'm in touch with thought towards the end of the record. he's just sending me tons and tons of shit and I'm like, how does he do this? Right, right.

Records on records and then he's sharing. Like, I'm so scared to share my shit, but he's just like, yo, I did this shit with surface, but check this shit out. And it's like, oh, my God. And so,

and so that's the bar. You know, you know what your bar is and it's high for me, but at the same time, Farrell can rap. So fucking what? Like, right. We know this already.

So, let me. And I don't mean that to sound arrogant. I mean that to say it's like, it's the same thing with the, it's like the straight A student. Like if you get straight A's all the time, it's like people don't notice you until you make a B. And it's just, you know what I mean? Like the thought freestyle,

everybody in the know is watching that shit like, y'all ain't know. You know, y'all ain't know. But it was so monumental for me because he's, he's breaking the matrix in that moment. Look at him. Only somebody who loves this tool to this level would even be able to put together

a string together that level of artistry and lyricism. And so that's what's beautiful about the now and getting matureness and knowing that, you know, I'm on my Morgan Freeman shit, man. I'm just trying to be the Morgan Freeman of hip-hop.

Hey, that's poetic, bro. I've never heard of put that beautiful. That's great. And even the thing with that thought freestyle, the thing that I always tell people is like you have to, you know, to your point kind of almost, you know,

fair about like rapping not being enough. You know, the thing is people watch that freestyle. It wasn't that they listen to it. They watched it. You know what I'm saying? And that was what kind of gave it the novelty aspect of it. Because, I mean, again, us,

we've been in a know we've been knowing. But if we, if he would have to tell him, those same bars and just spit them over beat and put it out and be like, yo, I just let some bars go. It wouldn't have been the same reaction. You know what I'm saying?

But look what it did for every... I understand what it did for him. Look what it did for all of us. You know what I mean? Anytime somebody comes to the table and they display that, it just reinforces how marginalized I think lyricism still is.

As much as it gets praised, I still don't think people. like even like j-z i'm like y'all still don't understand how good he is as much popular as he is it's just levels of lyricism that isn't disgusting forms that that can be brought out in my opinion as as somebody who's a fan of fonte and jay like this is this is just amazing shit that happens to me an amazing tenmanship and you know I think a lot of it goes still to this day goes over people's heads how amazing some of this shit is that makes any sense all right so I'm going to not ask you the question that I hate when journalists ask me this question so I'll remix it who are your favorite emcees then and I guess I'm really asking is there any

post 2010 really post 2015 that you like now Newarkass yeah I'm prepared for that answer to be no if it's no so thus I'll just have you

just who are your go-to like who do you like really like I'm a I'm trying you know I pull from all of these dudes but I think Hendrick is an obvious an obvious choice because, you know, on the album that touched my heart,

he had an understanding of very early on that, I'm nice, but I need to be surrounded by range men and music and all these things. And he made that marriage. And it was a moment again that pushed the envelope of what could be done. Kendrick is one. but just all-time emcees like any you know i mean my all-time is is the same cast of dudes it's uh rock him and kane and g-rap g-rap being my favorite slick rick who who i think influenced a whole array of people but they don't get that slick rick is influenced them

because of tone but slick rick is all the voice is a master he he's a master he's a master and Chuck D and Chris and L Is there someone that you feel is overrated, overlooked? Like, I'm realizing now that Tarek's

main influence is an emcee he never mentions, well, not that he does interviews. I didn't realize how much of a influence that Greg Nice is on Tarek. And usually Greg Nice isn't the first name

that comes to people's. But I mean, Greg Nice is, I don't know, he's kind of like a really great tuna fish sandwich. Like, it's not, it's not the, it's not the food.

No, it's not the food that you like, like, it's not on your last meal list, but it's consistent. And if May right, it hits the spot, but you just overlook it.

You know what I'm saying? And that's exactly, that's exactly what I'm talking about. Like, Greg Nice is in the, The whole of the fame of, and you wouldn't realize that he could influence a Black Thought, but hell yeah, he could. He influenced all of us.

He pushed over this area, and he, you know, I can't explain it, but this shit is marginalized and can only be discussed in a lyric room, how Greg Nights can influence Black Thought is very much so. And he's one of my favorite MCs as well. Okay, I got one last organized confusion record. I swear to God, we'll finally get to your solo career within the first four hours of this interview. But this is a question I've been dying to know. I have a copy of stress that has different music on Let's Organize.

Not the Patrice Russian sample, but there's another version of Let's Organized with Tip that I had, I guess I had a press copy of this shit. why was that music changed? That shit drove me crazy when I first heard it. And then when I brought the album, it was new music and I was like, wait a minute, this isn't the version I know. And it's like snuffalofagous.

Like, was it real? Was it not real? And anybody that's been on this show involved with that record, whatever, tip, name them, I ask, was it me or did I remember another version of Let's Organize that never made it? Yeah, it's the original version.

It's the ill. Jesus. It's the ill version. And we will. Do you have that version? I do. I could get it to you. Oh, thank you.

Yes. C-C me on that email as well. That's another, that's another thing that won't ever happen again is we were in studios. You know, the drive, the studio that I was in the Java building. I'm getting the name of it now. Battery. Battery studios. Mm-hmm.

And we were recording. And tip, you know, artists would be in different. The tip just heard that beat, came into our room, and was like, fuck y'all. I'm getting on this song. Where's my part? We were like, oh, shit. And he went in, and he just, you know, vibed it out. You know, this shit got me moving like this.

It got me moving. I need to be on this song. I remember Erica being in sessions in there. And again, it was just people flowing throughout the hallways. And that should have never happened again in music. Right. I think mistakenly, I want to say mistakenly, but organically happening because of different people in different studios. But yeah, we're working on that and it was like, yo, I got to get on this song.

So that's how that happened. Wow. Yeah, I got to hear that, man. Like, I've been dreaming of that moment. Why was it changed at the last minute? Or was it a sample issue or? Uh-oh. Uh-oh.

I don't know, man. I think it was a label thing. You know, we need to remix this song or whatever, and, you know, we fell for it. No, I mean, this is actually, this was the jazzier, more effective. I mean, I've DJed it and people danced to it. So it was probably the better decision, but the way y'all hooked that beat up on the first join. Prince Poe did that beat, man. If I was driving, I would have drove 200,000.

miles per hour into a wall and been happy. Like that's, that's your one. It's just so incredible, man. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. And your time off from in between Equinox to, you know,

internal affairs, yeah. And what were you doing during that time? Contemplating my life. Nah. I thought if you're going to recommit, you know, on some rocky shit and you're going to do it by yourself, then you need. to really put yourself through the ringer and the test of that.

It wasn't a pretentious thing. Started working on music. I did some demos. I went overseas with Bobito and Q unique and destroying Nosecats. Oh, wow. We toured Europe. I was by myself. I had a dat machine.

And I was like, you know, this is me having the conversation. with my inner self. If you really bout it, about it, you're going to press that debt, and you're going to go on stage by yourself, and you're going to see if you about it, and you're going to see if you've got what it takes to be a solo artist. If it wasn't for Prince, I wouldn't have got into it.

Like, you know, he was the conduit, obviously, to give me, you know, I'm not really outgoing like that. And so I needed to be like, are you really, you know, about this shit? You need to get up there by yourself and not having any money and you know tours in europe i ain't have a dj i literally had a portable dat machine wow and would be like press play on the portable

dat to my intro and walk out on stage there was no great yeah was it can i ask from one to damn that annoys me how burdensome or annoying to you at least in the last 20 years are those four notes from Simon says

that's why I didn't sing it I was scared I mean it's strange man it's like I know a lot of artists talk about their disdain for those records yeah it's not like Teen Spirit

or me and myself and I, like the group that hates their hit. Right. But I've really embraced the shit. I've embraced the love of it. I've embraced the way it bought a lot of people from different genres to that records. I embraced the festival shit with the record. I embraced the novelty of the record.

It almost became a novelty before this shit came out. You know, Rorcas was late to claim it and Flex was playing it. and Puffy was walking out to that song at the garden for an intro of the show before I was able to be like, wait a minute, this is me, you know. And we had to push forward the reclaim the record, you know, to grab it. So to answer that question, like, I've decided to love that fucking song. And it's brought me pain too and, you know, with the sample shit. But I love the record. Wait.

So you did. I got time to say it. Wait, can I ask one question, Fonte? Yeah, go ahead. Am I the only human being on earth that sort of associates that record and that sample? That is also on Lady Sings the Blues. And as a person that has watched Lady Sings the Blues like 20 times,

when she's getting, when she's getting arraigned and fingerprinted in the beginning during the opening credits. Okay, okay. The music in the background is, blah, blah, blah, wow. It's the same thing. Wow. So it's been used over and over again.

Now, the thing was that I know when the lawsuit came on, it's from the Godzilla people and yada, yada, yada, whatnot, but I don't know. Like, I knew that. It was almost kind of like some public, not public domain. Yeah, yeah. I knew that when lady sings the blues. And I believe, like, it was,

almost some Gilbert or Sullivan Bismarcki Markis shit coming on where they were trying to go extra hard on you from ruining them, the legacy of this fictional dragon. And I'm like, wait a minute. No,

this is Lady Saints to Blues. So it's, like, what was that whole ordeal? And I got mad James Murdoch questions for you as well with succession, but anyway. Man, man. For real, for real. Let me, yeah, just start with that.

Like, how did that whole thing, the whole lawsuit thing come to be? You know, I was a fucking monster movie buff and fan. My best friend who was a DJ for Organized Confusion as well, Tosik, calls me, and he's like, yo, I just came back from Tower. I got this CD with the original shit that we used to love back in the days and we used to run them from school to watch the 4.30 after school

movie shit. I used to have the 4.30 after school karate shit and they used to have the 430 after school monster joints with Gamera and Kong and all of that. I got the soundtrack to the sounds and all that stuff that was on there. And I was like, I'm coming right

down right now. And I go down there and I listen to it at his house and I just heard like some notes and phrasing and the whole CD was is amazing. It's a couple of things that I could have chopped off of there. But, you know, that thing stood out to me. And it was like, oh, man, is it this intro? Every DJ loves an intro to a song. This is just classic hip hop. And I can set it up where I have this intro to the

song and then this drop on the one. And then I'll just rock these four beats. Do it in, through the four beats and put some drums on it. Just rocking in the room and listening. And I'm like, Did you do that on the SP? Was that? that, you did that beat on the SP? Yes, sir. Wow. And then that's, you know, and then I just had the four notes and then I didn't have enough time to set up the intro.

That's where Lee Stone comes in. I'm like, I got to bring you the shit. And then we go and we work on the jigger, jigger, and all the rest of the shit. Mm-hmm. So, you know, I'm just, yeah, listen to the record. And I'm just like, you know what this is. you can only fuck this song up. You need to tell people what to do.

You need to be direct. And you need to write, you know, I wanted to write a rhyme like, like how I felt with kind of like LL, a rhyme that people remember the rhyme. And you do the rhyme and everybody's saying the rhyme. You know, up until this point, it's intricate and it's a lot of gymnastics. And people would be staring at me at shows like, oh, nice. but I wanted to write something that, you know, the whole crowd is like, I'm him, you know, I'm him when I'm saying that's that. I could do that shit in the mirror when I was doing that song.

So those are the two things I started with. Push come to shove, get the record done, and the bare bones of the record, and I take it to Raucus. And I'm like, I think I got one. Before I made that record, again, if we put it in context of what's happening in the, in music at that time, at radio and with labels, I'm looking at the scope of this shit, and I'm like, I think I could hang out with these guys in my way. New York City had a place to break records, which was the tunnel.

That shit doesn't exist anymore. And so I'm factoring all of this in when I'm thinking about the song. You need to get this record broke. You need to move people. it needs to be hard and it needs to say you know a couple of things on it you know that that could change things

it needs to be aggressive anyway I take the record in headquarters piece of headquarters was at Raucus at the time they just went crazy they was like this shit is crazy I remember headquarters so the record was done before you even went for Rokas even heard it like it was done before you were signed to Raucus

no no no I was I was signed and I was you know I was like I was telling them I could I could make records that can oh got you with what is happening on the radio right now in our in my way you know I felt like if this is the illest things that that's happening right now it was like holla hallo da do do do I'm like that's cool you know what I'm saying I hated that damn song you know what I like you I didn't. Like that era, like holla, holla, can I get it? All them records was kind of, yeah.

They were kind of whatever. Back then I didn't like it, but now. Some shit's so hardcore now, yeah. I was like, you didn't like it because you heard it so much. You didn't like it because the radio player did back to back to back to back to back to back.

I didn't like it the first time I heard it. Oh, damn. Yeah, you Fonte, so yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, I don't like it for the first time. That was it. And that's another, uh, uh, a misnomer. Like, all the cats that Rokas was, was fucking with those dudes. It's not like we were, like, hating, you know, I like the-

moment. Right. Uh, but they, they drew this line and, you know, cats that I knew on that side was like, yo, we'd be bumping your shit in the whip. And I was with these dudes and they playing you and Kali and most in the car. And they're doing the shit. And they're rocking with your shit too. like I don't think it was a bigger

disparity in line between the two genres at the time as it was made out to be course I was fucking big and Jay and J and Javu and all that shit like who who wasn't I mean I'm from South Jamaican queens that being said at Raucus I knew you know I was I was where I wanted to be

and where I needed to be and was working on the song I brought the record in I don't mean to be long and did. No. They love the record. I love the record. Jared was like, I don't know about this titty thing.

You might want to change the titty thing because, you know, the female fans, if you could just go back in and rework the titty thing. Yeah, it was weird. We paid attention. Every time the song came on,

we was like, ah, wait a minute, what am I doing? Yes. I was like, yeah, what y'all doing? I love it. I literally went back into the studio because I was a jackass artist. I'm like, let me, let me, you know, see if I could rework it. And I was like, fuck that shit, man.

Leave it how it is. It is what it is. It's an unconventional chorus because it's extra long and all the shit. And then it gets into some other shit with the itty bitty shit. I'm like, lead a shit, man. It feels good. Oh, that's what I forgot about the itty bitty tities. New York City, Idy committee.

50 degrees. Yeah. You got into And we left it They rocked with it And I came to them With the business side And there was notorious

They're like business Wasn't just executed On a high level And I bought the samples in And whatever And it was like You know We don't really have to

You know Because this bob to boop to boop And they dropped the ball On the business side It's not like I I hid what the fuck I was doing I was like Here's the CD

Here's the paperwork Here's the shit like let's quit the shit it could pop if you're feeling it like that we need to do it and it was kind of like you know so you're saying that they just thought like we're raucous you know under the radar it's only going to be in 20,000 units this will sell at fat beats and right you know and then came radio okay well i was going to ask like did you have relationships with brian and jarrott and about to say rupert uh james murdock at the time Because there's only, do you watch this session, the HBO kind of drama about the Murdoch family?

Me too, I'm more. Yeah. Like, they, the character that's playing the James guy, like, you know, he's going through his, you know, his post-hip hop phase. But now that I've watched that, like. Wait, I'm sorry, connect the dots. Wait, what are you saying right now, Amir? Are you saying that the Murdox are connected to Rockus? Is that what you're saying?

James Murdoch. The youngest son of Rupert Murdoch is the kind of the seed money for Rockus Records. Shut the fuck up. Yeah. Yeah, James. Actually, you know, James, I forgot. James brought Rockis to Wendy Goldstein. So at one point, like, yeah, that's how most got on the label.

I'm losing my shit, don't. Like the most conscious rappers. What? Yeah. The irony of it all is that, yes, the youngest Murdoch song, son, James Murdoch, was one of the heads of raucous records. And I first heard that from an LP song. It was one of his records. It was an LP of Company Fall, I can't remember.

But he had made a mention of it. And I was like, holy shit. Was it on the Fun Crusher Plus? It might have been on Fun Crusher Plus. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, so if you start watching the show's succession, which is, you know, kind of mirror. It's like McDonald's. Like, we know that it's not the Murdoch family, but that's who it is.

Like, one of their sons was like, you know, I mean, not wiggerish, but, you know, he's. Oh, the oldest. Steeped into, no, the youngest, steep into the hip-hop, whatever. So I always wondered, like, what the relationship was between the art. artist and those three at the time. Because in my head, I thought they were like that it was just strictly a backpack. I didn't realize like how. Yeah, it was money.

It was, it was heavy money flowing through. Talk about. Yeah. I know. Not enough money to clear samples, apparently. Oh, exactly. Exactly. So have they handled it now?

It's like, hasn't been cleared or dealt with or the song just does not exist anymore unless you already had it. It doesn't and it hasn't been cleared. And I own that album and I own that record in the fact of my possession. And thank God for that. And during this pandemic, things are the nights. Where the money reside. A win is a win. A win is a win.

Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment.

and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl.

You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends... Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me?

The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Ago Wadam. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo. Woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with him one day.

And I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet.

Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. Mm. and he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat.

Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Are there any plans to get the first two organized records on streaming? Or are you going through a day-la-soult thing as well with?

We're in the midst of putting those up soon. But I just was telling Prince, let's do the shit in a real ill way and not just make it available. Let's try and shoot something. Let's shoot something for a straight bullet, make an announcement. And it would be nice. You know, just to be like, hi, I'm Prince Polk. Hi, I'm Farrell March. And we are organizing fusion for the first time.

Yes. You know, I think that shit would be cool. So to all the heads out there, it's coming. We just want to do it and honor the catalog. It's all we have. You know, it may not be what us. Some other catalogs are, but it's ours. And I want to honor it.

And that money is going to come in every month. Mm-hmm. Shit. Wow, that's crazy. Yeah, when it comes by, I was about to say, with the desire record, what was the decision process to, well, I'm saying it's almost as if everyone between 2004 and 2005 was expanding their creative palette in terms of their, their, presentation. So there's a lot more live instrumentation. Was that just based on not trying to mess with samples anymore and the whole nightmare of that situation? Like what brought that on? One of my favorites on that record was your Terodome cover. Thank you, man. Probably, you know, looking back as emotionally and psychologically, but more so than that, I had went through so much trauma with the sample and the label. shit and uh rock is uh folded and went to mca and then they went over there and then they was at

geffen and then it was this and i was caught up and all that shit and um in the midst of that uh there was there was some um almost uh me going with shady and then sylvia rome and then over here and then i was just all over the place and then i finally was like you know what i'm just try to be a free agent and get out of this kind of web. And I was finally able to walk from it all. And when I walked from it, I felt free again. And I was like, I don't even know if I want to do this shit again right now and the way that I'm used to doing it.

And I had a bevy of songs that I had recorded and I had love. I was on tour with Mose and Qua. We was on a Sony PlayStation tour. with tour buses. I had landed a publishing deal and I was chilling. And I was like, I'm not signed. I don't want to look for a record deal.

I'm good. And Corey, Carlis manager at the time. Blacksmith. Blacksmith was like, yo, what you're working on? And I put something on a tour bus

and I played a couple of songs and he lost it. And he just tore me apart. And he was like, these songs are great. They're not yours. They're giving to you from a higher place. It's wrong for you to hold on to this stuff.

What are you doing? You know, it's not yours to hold on to. Like, what are you doing on? I don't know, you know, I'm good. I'm on tour with Mosin Qua. And, you know, I'm just turned off by the record label shit. And he really beat me up and was like, and you need to give them away.

And there was, again, putting music in context, the industry is changing, like you said at that time. and I couldn't understand as a 90s dude, the concept of give the what? No record covered? Like what? Huh? Like no artwork? What do you mean? Give the shit away.

And he was really like, it's not really yours, man. You have fans. You need to let it go. And I was just like, I can't get the concept. I go on to record more music and I do realize that what I'm feeling is I want to uplift so I incorporate

great Mila Machinko. Showtime, my niggas. Showtime because I'm hearing that these harmonies can be uplifting in the song and these tones. And I knew that I wanted to perform and have people feel a certain way because I feel like I was let free from my situation. So I was incorporating, you know, to answer your question, sorry for being long-winded, I was in trying to incorporate. this instrumentation that can make you feel good and get a goosebumps, hopefully, from the live

performance. And that's why the desire record sounds like that. How did you and Denar hook up, man? What was, how did that connection happen? There was, there was, I was moving back and forth between Shady and this and that and we hooked up and he's responsible for a lot of that. And, you know, I was in Detroit. man it was one of the best times you know just being out there with black milk and guilty and the non and and that whole crew and uh he's so soulful and he bought a lot of that you know that's why i gravitated that way because he sings and you know broken heart i'm still waiting for that i need that to come out on something like i love that fucking song man well thank you man and uh that's

that's why i went in that direction because i'm I was like, I need to move people in a different way. And that being said, the record that most of the demo got dropped. When I was in Detroit, working with Denon, I was also writing for Puff. I was doing it. Dude, I wanted to ask you. So I'm feeling really good. And I don't have a record deal.

And I'm just fortunate that the non is helping me out. and I'm working on music. Again, feeling really fortunate and I'm writing and I'm doing shit and I don't know where this music is going to go. And it was an actual, created an actual bidding war just to push this forward. It was SRC.

Puff was loving what he was hearing because he would ask me to play shit when I was in the studio with him. No Desire and the shit with Alchemist and the different songs that was on that album. people were feeling and my lawyer was like I can't believe that in this context in this time frame that you actually have three deals on the table Sony SRC and Puff was like whatever they offer you double that shit true story and I was like I don't believe you I don't believe this I don't

believe this will work there you know we would have heart to hearts and he would be like why and I'm like, I don't. Farrell Monch, bad boy in the building. I was like, nobody's trying to hit it. Wait, that's real, though. I got to ask, only because, you know, there's a part like past the mid-aughts, 2005, 2006, where you just stopped reading credits. So I don't know. But I always felt in my heart that one of them rhymes on ditties. I'm so glad you said that. The press play album? Yeah, I didn't want to insult you. I was like, wait. It was the future, right?

Yeah. Wait, oh, so it's the, see, because I always thought that you wrote everything I love, the one that Kanye did, because the way he's rhyming on it and doing it, someone's going to do it. I was like, wait, did he's pinning like this? Did he's pinning like, come on? Y'all don't hear this? And I always wanted to know, did you ghost write that joint? Okay.

He, he, he, I sat. It was the, it was the press play album, right? Oh, was it press play or was it? Yeah, press play. Sat with him, had a meet with him. He was like, I'm working on an album. Um, I got to meet with him because I had did this publishing deal and the writers there. And you, y'all know how that go.

And my only thing was when I sat with him, I'm like, I'm good. I just want to be credited, which is why I don't have any problem saying what I'm saying, because I'm credited as a writer on the song. So it's not like, you know, like, be quiet. Right. And then, you know, I just, again, I just learned so much from him. You know, I thought he credited me so much on my work ethic,

but he's really an animal at that shit too. And I watched him and learned about applying, reapplying myself in a different way when it comes to my own shit, because I'm like, no way I'm going to work this. hard on his shit and not work that hard on my shit. And just learn so much from him in that sense of how he pushes. It's really good at figuring out how to push your writer or to push your artists. I love that dude for that.

So, you know, I want to know what that process is like when you're, is it like, does he just take what you give him? Do you have to be there to coach him? Like, say it like this. Like how much work does he put into the preparation? Because, I mean, he pulled it off. to the point where I was like, wow, he really got good at rap and then I was like, wait a minute, this got me somebody writing his joins for him.

And then when I heard, if I write rhymes, I write chicks. Right. And then when I heard the rhyme scheme, I was like, yo, this feels like some Pharaoh would say. And I was like, there's no way that he reached that deep into the, to the, rapper bag. Yeah, to go that level. But now I'm realizing, and he goes in cycles where he's like, okay, I got to take it back to the beginning. Like, even right now as we speak, he, I hope I'm not letting this cat out the bag. Like,

he's trying to make, he's now making like Camp Diddy where it's like he has two underground cats. Like he's trying to go back there again. You know what I'm saying? He does it like once every seven years. You got to realize who he discovered. Yeah. At the end of the day, you got to realize who was written, you know, you know, we could, we could, you know, even having conversations with him, off the rip. He was like, I know what niggas say about me. I'm like, what do they say? He said, they'd be in the barbershops and they'd be like, I'll fuck with his jeans, but I don't fuck with his music. And shit, you know. Oh, that's what I fuck with his music. I don't fuck with him. James.

I don't fuck with his James. Yeah. I'm like, oh, wait, I can't say that. I was, I was once a short job model. A long long time ago. But wait, can you answer that question now? Because I do want to know the answer to the question of the process that you asked Amir about. Like what is that process like? And were you in the studio and there for like all the infections and one of that? Again, in those heart to hearts, he was like, yo, if you have an issue, tell me to my face and be honest with me. And that's why I took the job.

It's been a lot of shit that I, a lot of things that I was offered in my career, which is where I'm in the position, not in a higher position that I could be. that I was like, ah, it's just not in my heart to do it. But when he told me that, I was like, all right, nigga. If you don't want to be that raw and you're going to be that honest, then let's do it. And he played me the beats and it was like, has it, the non. And I'm like, oh, shit.

I was like, this is what the A-list beat sound like. I always get the deep. Wow. Yeah, they get you best shit, right? I was like, oh, my God, this music is good. Let's do it. So he flies me down to Miami, and I'm writing, and I'm writing, and I'm writing, and I'm writing, and we're nailing the shit,

and the engineers are in there, and they're like, this is crazy, this is crazy, this is crazy. He's going to love this, and he, he'll come in in the 11th hour and be like, maybe the last four bars, you know, going into the thing could be a rewrite. And we, you know, we worked hard on stuff. So I got it done. You know, there was some great stories down there, Miami.

Do tell. Should I leave? What was it like recording down there? Not going there. Unmuted me. I was working on my album with the Narn at the same time. And I really was like, I want to finish this so I could go back to Detroit. and finish my shit.

And he was like, yo, your shit is, is amazing as well. You might want to think this out. Boom, boom, boom. I finished my writing.

I flew to Detroit. And we're working on my stuff and I'm in the studio with the non, maybe milk, maybe guilty. We're chilling and we're writing. And I'm having some whiskey

and I get a call from Sean C. And he says, my brother, I think Puffy is going to use one of your joints is the first single first release kind of and I'm like you gotta be fucking shit and he's like you gotta hear it

and I was like send it to me and they send me the song and the non has this elaborate studio he puts it in puts it on puts it on the big speakers and press play and all you can hear is laughter everybody in the studio is

laughing at the top of their fucking lungs because it sounds like Farrell Munch coming out of Puffy's mouth. Yeah, I guess. Yeah. And I'm like, you know,

I actually did it, you know, I did it with a New York swago on the demos and it's kind of laid back and it, you know, kind of has like a lot of flavor that I don't even, you know, project back then.

That's not where I was with it. And it was so ill. So he said, if you have an issue, you can call me. So I was like, I got to get him on the phone. I want to fly back. I want to re-record these vocals. I want to fly back to New York.

And I go in with him and re-record these vocals. And I was like, I got to get them on the phone. And they just steady laughing. It's just laughing in the background. And I'm calling. And I'm like, hello, it's Farrow. Can I speak to Puff? And it's like, Farrow?

Who? What? Like, Pharaoh, can I speak? hold on yeah who what Pharaoh okay hold on finally get through to him

and I'm like just listen to the record I think we can re-record these vocals more laid and relaxed and he was like

fuck you man I love this shit I'm not changing it yeah so much for real talk That he much. Wow.

What do you think made you go with, you know, go with SRC rather than going with bad boy or going with like Sony, you know, you said. How did you choose them? I mean, I knew what that record was sounding like it was done on. I'm like, I don't, you know, you know, I would be like explaining me how this, how this would work.

You know, it's like, I could walk you on. into MTV. I could do this. I could do this. And I just was like, I just don't think it fits the aesthetic unless something else is kind of created. And I love that dude. And I would have loved to have worked with him under his tutelage and got all that extra kind of love. But I just didn't think it fit there. Was that your last experience in the writing? Because didn't you write some more for other folks?

I quit after that. It's so taxing. you give all of your heart to and soul and it just it's just kind of draining in a way can I ask you to who did you say no to if I'm allowed to ask

Did he can't be the only person that ask you to hook up his pen? I can't I can't wait a minute I'm asking a mirror wait wait wait just yes or no

are these like rappers that we would respect that we be shocked at or is it like a list celebrities that want to rap based on that

I already know the answer never mind and I board on I think I know the answers but anyway uh wow wow

so like once you talk talk to me about like after you left you know after desire and then the years I think like the four years three four years when you came with the war LP um how is it like to get your mind frame of being ready to be an independent artist and like really like doing it yourself in a way that you had never had prior to any point in your career after the desire album steve rickin and we went back and steve loved a record I did too

He was telling me him and his wife At the time it was It was something that they played and they They had sex to and It was really No no on some real shit like he was like Yeah I live to this record Right

Yeah And he was very disappointed I think When he had sex to the war record No No no desire sex to the war sex to the war record

that's an ex videos channel exactly okay my bad my bad yeah me and immortal technique in you and you

and you um so he uh he was like loved his record and um dropped it

and I was in the system in which uh that in that two week frame little Wayne dropped the lollipop record and that shit shut it shut everything

down I think it like killed Erica had America I think at the time from what I could see from my optics it just soaked up all of the monies from everywhere and they put all their money on that shit and we kind of got

yeah but that being said I tore it off that record I did rock the bells off that record, and it was very well received, and I saw a different level of fan coming in. I remember being on rock the bells overseas with Nause and daylight in the elevator, and I was talking to Nause, and I said, yo, you know, I put this out, and, you know, heads seem a little disappointed that I had, you know, the singing and this, and Nause and Pospas was like, don't worry, these things are like children, they grow, they mature, talk to me three years, years from now and see what it's like.

So when I ask people, desire is up there in my solo shit that people vibe with still. It brought in new fans and I was starting to learn that that's okay as I'm moving forward.

So I go back to Steve and then that moment when we're going into the new record, I was like, yo, I got these samples and shit and I want to do some rock shit and I want to do some this shit and that shit was like nah and I was like

I want to leave then and I want to be on the label and they let me go because we're all mature and whatever and whatever and Garouet my manager at the time was like you know I think this major label shit went over people's heads

you know you're telling me people see you in the mall and they're like you're still rap and I'm like I'm on a major right you know it was something they connected something they connected and the labels is changing and it's going digital and they're missing it, we decided to go independent,

learn under the tutelage of ducked down and get the game from somebody who's been doing it for 25 years, you know, and not just jump into the game and we talked to them and we went there and we did the war record, which again, for me, you know, for my lens, did better than the desire record because we had a record on there. I had a record on there called Still Standing with Jill Scott

that performed extremely well overseas and kept me out on the road, which is obviously the only way I was making money at the time, the only way I could earn. So I was enjoying staying on the road. Yeah. And anyway, that's what we did, Black Handside. We shot the Black Handside video. with that was man that was you were the one you introduced me to terrence dance who is the

director of uh random acts of flyness on hb r oh okay and he's also and he's one of one of his homies is also um i don't think he was on set that day but uh because man shocka king i don't know you i'm sure you know shock yeah yeah you know who's my who did the uh the upcoming friend hampton joint but uh but now man i really the videos that y'all did for that record I just I remember just telling guy you know because we shot our video the black hand side joint was styles P but before that y'all had shot clap and I was like yo these shits is like movies dude and you know it always just made me think of you and just one of you ever had any aspirations of going in the screenwriting because yeah I wrote it seemed like you'd be a perfect fit

of the shit man yeah I wrote all of those I wrote the concept for black handside with the through the different lens of the shades I wrote the concept for clap and still standing. And obviously I was lucky enough to hook up with Terrence Nance, who's a fucking genius and going to do incredible and insane major things. But I was lucky to fall into that lane with him and his cinematographer Sean and get those visuals done, which really, really helped the record a lot. Farrow

So We got here Finally in three hours Explain to me The concept behind the The 13 project Damn you're going to steal my one question All right

Good Steve Ask your question I mean I love Daru Jones and Marcus Machado And yet If you could just tell us About the trio But specifically

why you chose a drummer drums and guitar as the other two parts as your back drum You know of course You know the rock thing has been sprinkled Throughout

You know I had some ill samples that didn't make The record of stuff that I was rocking over And I realized If I wanted people to take me A little bit more serious Than me even saying that that word that I needed to incorporate musicians. I likened it to somebody from the rock side saying he's going to do an authentic

hip-hop record and how everybody on this side would be like, get the fuck out of here. And so, you know, I wanted to at least get a look on that side. I'm a fan of the genre and I respect the genre. and I know people have tried to have done these type of mashups before. So I wanted someone who had who could do the late dealer shit as well as had rock chops because a lot of the stuff was straight ahead. And I knew it should be more straight ahead than more laid back in the pocket, you know, thinking about what I wanted.

And I wanted to, you know, get somebody who, who can understand that. And, you know, I know how busy Daru is, but I was like, fuck it. Yo, I'm doing this project and I need a bit of commitment. And I know Katz always gigging, but he was like, I'm down. And that was like, you know, one of the main things because I needed to do, obviously, a couple of straight live records to make it make sense. But more importantly, I wanted it to keep the temperament and not lose

hip hop because that's the core of the shit still. It's the reason why I like the genre you know to begin with if you're talking

Rush and Sabbath and Zeppelin you know that's all shit I would rhyme over you know I heard Tom Sawyer

and I'm like I don't know any MCC who wouldn't want to rhyme over that so to me I'm like that's that's hip pop to me

And it's always been the genres kind of blend in to each other for me. So I knew that was very important to bring in a knots so that the shit is official in terms of that pocket, but then able to expand outside of what you would get in an intro or an outro of a record so we could stretch a little bit. So that's what that's all about. on a musical side. What is the, what is your,

I almost at this point call it, obsession with the number 13 because you're publishing is Treska Decafobia which is fear of the number 13, correct? Is that right? So yeah, what's that, that recurring kind of theme in your career?

So with the asthma shit, when I got it and when I was little, I contracted it at 13 months. Hmm. Okay. of age. And that's what I hear all the time. People would get for like,

how long has it been since he had asthma? And my mom would be like, since he was 13 months old. And I, you know, it just kind of stuck in my head like that. And then as, you know, I went on, I was born on Halloween,

which is 31, and the number just kept reoccurring. And then I'm a big sports fan. And then a lot of the players that I like wore the number. So when me and the Prince picked numbers, you know, his favorite number was eight. We played on the high school basketball team in art school,

so it wasn't really that good. And 13 was my number. And so it stuck with me. And that's just the basis behind that, you know. And it's cool to do the awkward shit and just, I think it's hip-hop to be like, yeah, it's supposed to be bad luck, but fuck it. And it's also rock to be like, supposed to be bad luck for fuck it. So that's what the 13 is about.

Okay, so not to totally weird y'all out. Okay, so, you know, as of this recording, I don't know when this will hit the air, but as of this recording, I just celebrated a birthday and someone was gracious enough to gift me a medium, a three-hour session with a medium.

Oh, wow. Nice. Yeah, it was deep, man. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, not nice, not nice, Farrell. Okay, no, no, okay, no, no, I'm saying that's amazing. No, I'm just, the thing is, is that, um, yeah, you know, I've also been looking at my, my, my lineage and my bloodline, which, um, the Benin people of Africa are also connected to Haitians.

And so I'm slowly just discovering that, There is a lot of propaganda with the number 13 and also the number six, which of course, you know, we've been taught kind of post-colonial Christian America that, you know, six-six is the mark of the beast and sign the devil. And there's no 13th floor anywhere, none of those things. And I'm slowly realizing in my studies, especially in Haitian culture, that 13, is actually a holy number. And it's almost as if, you know, the propaganda that that's been used to sort of deter you away from embracing it.

Say it's evil. But it's actually. Separating the information. Right. It's actually a very spiritual. It's for African culture, it's a spiritual number. So that kind of everything y'all do is bad. God damn.

Yeah. So I'm realizing this year that actually we need to embrace the number 13, which when I saw the name of the group, I was like, God, damn. He took my number. Man, I didn't know that. 13 is my number, damn it. Did you know Marcus or did Daru bring him aboard or to you? I knew Marcus from, you know, Vernon Reed and those cats. and family stand.

And he grew up around those people. And, you know, when it came to, you know, I need someone who could take it there and, you know, do some double time or, you know, do some funk. You know, he was a dude. And I've seen him play and it was like, you know, blue note.

And I was like, he got that. I just needed to see. if he had the edge. And, you know, obviously he's a Jimmy fan. And I even needed it a little more edgier than that. And he's just that dude. Like, he's a prodigy. Like, I asked for, we're still in the beginning stages,

so we don't know. But I asked for two dudes who could, if we break this ceiling and people, be like, I don't know any of these guys. I don't know the fucking rat. I don't know who any of them are, you know, run the Jew style. I wanted people to be like, I'm here for the fucking guitarist. I'm here for the drummer.

Like, the vocalist is cool. And I asked for, you know, cats that can shine like that. Because I think, you know, the goal is to take away the pretentiousness of what you get. You know, like I said, I'm trying to deconstruct. And I just got tired of seeing dudes in the front with, whatever. And I'm like, I need to see a team. So I told them, you know, I didn't want my name on the shit at all, but obviously because of algorithms. The algorithm. Yeah. You know, they're like, we got to put Farrow in here somewhere to take advantage of your millions of people who have locked

into you on Spotify and all that shit. So that's what that's about. But if it was up to me, I'd have just been like 13 but you know I'm not as stupid to run away from what I've been working on for 30 years so that's why my name is even on the shit you know yeah okay

can you break down because I think Amir asked you but you never got a chance to answer about the concept of the group and even I mean the videos there is a concept there's a focus it seems yeah you know it's just anybody who

who has a brain and any empathy you could just feel that the system and the country is way heavy on our spirit and when you think about how do you get back to zero

you know it's going to be some harsh-ass discussions that need to happen because of the atrocities that this country is founded on and so you know in my mind as an MC I'm like you know the only real way to do that shit

the only real way to atone collectively is an exorcism even if it's wet ourselves and I as an MC I know people would hit that word and be like ooh and I was like good fuck it you should be scared because this shit is scary that's going on but um

it's kind of like the it's kind of like the cleansing too you know and um it's been cathartic for me as well doing it and also you know we've been kumbai and praying and all that shit

for a long, long time now and hold of the hands. And I just wanted to like it myself and be like, let's just come at this to like real dark and meet the shit head on how it's coming at us because you know, to keep information from people and to

you know, not allow people to have loans to get poems and all the secret shit that's been going on for all these years is pretty evil. You know, point blank. And I was like, how about we come down to that vibration? I know it's like light shines on the dark, but I'm like, how about we go there and throw this system a little voodoo and get a little dark with the shit? I love it.

I'm a fucker's back in the face. Yes. Hey, I have one last question before we wrap up. Fronte, you. No, go ahead, go ahead. Okay. Okay. Yeah, because I feel like I'll get roasted for not asking this question because we asked about like your history and we asked about your records and your business decisions.

But the one thing I never asked was your actual creative process. Like can you just give us a, you know, and I know, and I know emcees and artists have general, you know, it just comes when the spirit hits me. But do you have a specific ritual? Like, do you get up in the morning? Do you like, what is your ritual when you are creating a song? Does it come instantly? I'm a sponge. I love good conversation.

I love talking to people who are way more educated than I am and listening to them and talking to them in sponging and film and I sponge off of films like this this whole project is probably off of Fury Road Logan and Joker

in a sense that you look at the commitment that I looked at the commitment that Joaquin Phoenix made to that film and literally went back in the studio and it was like I got to redo verses I need you to be more committed to the verse

yeah you were one of the first emcees, I'll say too, man, like you were on the first cast that I really, someone I respected at a time in hip hop when everybody was trying to be J. And 50 Gs, I get it in one take, guru. You know what I'm saying? Like, oh, I got it in one take.

I got it in one take. You were one of the first cast. I remember hearing saying, like, no, I treat my vocals like a performance or, you know, treat it almost like an actor where it's like, you know, if I got to do it two, three times, or even if it's like comping

and just, okay, I want to do this line, right here. You know what I'm saying? And that was so mind-blowing to me and it just opened me up because that was in rap world. That was thought of something that was just so like, oh, you don't do that. We just come in and rap and that's it. It was never thought of as being a performance and treating it, you know, like a voice actor would. In the beginning, because, you know, we couldn't afford studio time. It was like, you got knocked that shit out with two MCs on one microphone. You know, It's just, you know, as we keep going back to context, but now it's like, do you believe yourself?

You know what I mean? Like, listen back to the shit. If you ain't convincing you, you definitely ain't going to convince Fonte, Blackthorite, Blackthorreuth, Royce, Quest, or anybody else. So just listen and see if it's cutting through in that sense. And if I could get the, yeah, I think I got it, and then I could let it go.

And it's nothing wrong with that. Like even after Nikki Minaj came out, and I noticed how the way they were producing vocals, which we, you know, that's a part of making the record. You know, they took that shit to a whole other level. And even on some of the songs or some of these songs, I'm like, I need to, you know, produce the vocals. Am I getting, am I giving away hip-out secrets?

Nah, dude, man. Come on, man. This is what it is. Showing the different aspects of the art, too. Because like Fonte said, a lot of people do just think you dope if you can get it out of one take. People didn't even think that, wait a minute. Let's treat this like art. So no, thank you for that.

No, that's real. And he's one of the most, I've never worked with much in the studio. But the times we have worked, you know, we would just send each other stuff, whatever. I mean, he is just one of the most meticulous. Like, I remember you sent me back your verse for the we go off record we did for my, album and you sent me that shit back i was like yo this nigger doing sound effects he got you know it was all this shit but it was that shit was just what the fuck you know i needed and that was what i called you like to do just that and um you know that was the time i remember like

when we was back in i think man this was even before minstrel show came out because you were one of the cats that we were thinking about putting on on hiding place um me and pool was talking you know about putting you on that record. And you came to Raleigh, I think, came to Durham, and we went and got some seafood or something, I can't remember, but we were just talking and you was telling me about the time Desire was about to come out, and you was like, yo, man,

new shit coming. I'm about to be like Tom Jones on this bitch, you know what I mean? You talk about, you know, the body, the body baby record. But, uh, but, uh, but, yeah, you, you hear artists and they don't fit. It's all good. Like, you're supposed to be like,

let's see if this guy, fits this puzzle and the shit has to work. Like, you know, that's how it's supposed to be like, you know, yeah, man. Yeah, but everything we've done, like, all the records like you ever reached out before, I'm just like, anytime I have a chance to rhyme with you, I'm just like, dude, just say the word, I'm there, whatever. I don't care what it is. Like, I'm going ahead to head.

And I just always appreciated the way that you just always, you know, I could, I always tell, like, I think when we did the Black Hand Side video, that was probably the first time that I really, saw and I mean this like in a in you know in a very beautiful way just how sensitive of an artist you were and not like oh man I'm sensitive not like that but just how intuitive

I guess you were and how you know it was and it wasn't even on no music shit it was just we was talking I never forget this bro we was talking and I think we had finished shooting for the day we don't have like one scene left or something but this was around the time

when man don't I think they hit like Gaddafi. This was when all that shit was popping on with Gaddafi and his son had got killed or some shit. It was something. All the history people listened to this interview, please don't crucify me. But I just remember someone on set came in

and like delivered that news. And you were just sitting in this chair and you just looked up and you was like, yo, they killed Gaddafi's son. And I just would never get the look in your face. Like you was just like, yo boy, these crackers ain't shit. God damn You know

You said that look You was like Yo But I just remember Seeing that And I was like man Like you really You know

When you said like A sponge You know what I'm saying Like you I saw that quality in you You know what I mean I'm an empath And it is what it is

I don't know if that's a cool thing To even say But it is what it is And I love this shit man I love I love you I love little brother I love

I love the root and it's cool to say that shit like I'm a fan fan you know bro when you came man when we did DC like we was like one of the last kind of shows we did before you know everything shut down you know we had booked DC the same night

and I hit you to I hit you I was like bro I had no idea this was gonna have because I didn't even find out to afterwards and so I hit you you you were doing the Kennedy Center we were at Howard Theater and I was like yo I'm gonna come through I'm talking the guy and I'm like yo I'm coming through

and I'm a, you know, rock, yeah, Farrow Show. I'm sorry. You got to let that live for a second. You was doing the Kennedy Center. Okay, I'm sorry. Damn right. You know what I mean?

He was in that thing. So, no, man, I came over and like rock with you and, you know, and then, you know, afterwards. I was like, yo, we go into the LB show. And so y'all came over and we didn't get a chance to talk afterwards. But, bro, I never got chance to tell you, man, that shit meant so much for me and and Poole to be on stage and we looking in the back and, you know, normally in the it might be just whoever, right? But we're looking like behind where the DJ is and it's you.

I think fame was back there from MOP, guys back there. Like it's all these dudes that we grew up listening to watching us. And I remember God was asking me before. He said, man, you know, if you want Munch to come on, you know, just, you know, we got you. I said, no, bro, like, Munch fame. I said, man, let them niggers be fans tonight, bro. Like just, they ain't got to work. You know what I mean?

Just let them chill. You know what I mean? and that meant so much to me, bro. I wish I could have been in the audience, but it was so packed in that motherfucker. I couldn't even go out there. Like, I, you know. Now, if you were to win out there,

it would have been a problem. Yeah. And, but like I said, man, you know, it's not, you know, fuck it, me. Like, flowers, flowers, flowers, you know, for what everybody, it's dope to just be a fan fan.

It's fun to be a fan, you know? So. Also dope the hair brothers give love Just so y'all know It's dope to hear brothers give love For real real We live we evolve We're evolving niggas go to therapy

I know that's the new day But I'm keeping you your loud With about giving love brother Like I love the new era Y'all talked me last week so Yeah Hey if you love me too I got a sugar Steve action figure

For you for your top shelf over there Get the fuck I hear you Are you serious? I don't think yeah He probably does joke Okay Yeah but uh but nah bro I mean, I've told you time and time again,

but no, bro, you were, like, one of the greatest, like, to ever fucking do this shit, and you're always an emcee that makes me, you know, sends me back to the drawing board, and I hear shit, I'm just like, holy shit, like, I got to step it up again. And to be able to maintain that intensity for the last 30 fucking years, I mean,

and with no signs of decline or slipping off, or, you know, I got, you know, I posted early, I bought the 13 record. I had a chance to list to it yet, because I've been, like, just running around all day. But, but, nah, man, just from what I heard, you know, I mean, I was like, yeah, Munch is doing Munch. The bars, the shit is, yeah, the visuals.

Everything is on point, man. And I just want to give you your flowers and just say, thank you for always showing me that love. I love. I love you and respect you to the utmost, brother. Yeah. Yeah, man, thank you. Prior to the pandemic, I was difficult with compliments. After this shit, I'm soaking in all the love. Wait a minute.

That's fine. That's fine. That's my line Yeah, we get your flowers, man No, thank you for doing this episode It's definitely, you know, one for the record books One one for our What do you call it?

Check off the bucket list The bucket list, right? I was about to say a notch in the bedpost Oh, yeah Hell no, it ain't that, no, no, exactly But you is looking good over there, Mr. Mastow, you is looking good. Yeah, but thank you for doing the show, man.

I really appreciate it. Of course, man, and I'm honored, man. Thank you guys for having me. I need this. I got a new record out. It's the first week. We came in at 16. We did the tiny desks.

We got a lot of stuff flowing. So I appreciate this, man. You know, I appreciate it. Nah, man. Shout out the guy for hooking it up. Shout out my brother, God, man. Like, whatever. Yeah, man.

Absolutely. All right, on behalf of Unpaid Bill I'm Sugar Steve and Laia and Fonseilo. My name is Questlove. Thank you for the great Paramount for joining us, and we will see you next week on Questlove Supreme. All right. Yes, sir.

Check out later. Hey, this is Sugar Steve. Make sure you keep up with us on Instagram at QLS. And let us know what you think. We should be next to sit down with us. Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast. Quest Love Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. For more podcasts from IHeart Radio,

of the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey,

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Listen to the Clifford show on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying. and under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice

podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. They take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends.

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