The Questlove Show - Questlove Supreme: Rick Astley

Episode Date: June 15, 2022

Rick Astley tells Questlove Supreme about rekindling an appreciation for his biggest hit, "Never Gonna Give You Up." He also discusses leaving the industry for over a decade, saving money, and discovering the Rick-Roll from a friend.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of Questlove Supreme. I'm Questlove, your host. It's actually... Have we ever a tag team, Ticillo? I don't think we have. I think, look at us. This is the tag team features of Fon Ticillo and Quaslo.

How are you doing, man? How's your week been? It's hectic. But I did. I saw a few posts. Are you allowed to talk about it? Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, we had our first, like, Little Brother show in like two years over the past, like, last weekend. How was that? It was insane. Very surreal. Afterwards, I had these two kids come up to me and were like, this is the greatest show we've ever seen two white girls, 17 and her sister, who was 12. Wow. That was the first, the 12-year-old, she said, it was the first show she'd ever been to ever. And I was sitting there talking with my home girl, Shillette.

And we was just sitting there. And I was like, hi, my, they was like, oh, my God, you guys were getting it so high. It was so great. And I love the pink. I love you in the pink shirt. We love the pink. I was like, okay. Thanks for the fashion tip.

You know what I mean? How do they know to even see you? Well, they were there. Both of them are younger than your career. Straight up. I got albums older than both of them. So they were, we were opening for a band called Sylvanesso, and they big ups to them.

That's, that's fine. So Enoso, yes. So they did like a three-night kind of festival thing in Durham. And we were like the support act for night too. And yeah, man, we came out there. And, you know, it was our first show, me and Poo put the set together, like the night before. I was like, okay, do this, do that, do that. And we went out there and at the end of the show towards the end,

normally we were asked at the beginning, but for this night, we asked at the end, we was like, how many of y'all was your first time seeing little brother for the first time? And, like, 90% of the hands went up. They had no idea who we were. But, like, we rocked that shit. And so it was, it was crazy. It was surreal, like, to be, you're now a 20-year veteran. Straight up.

No. bro, facts, like 20 years in to still be picking up new fans, that shit is that's kind of surreal. And I'm noticing too that post-COVID crowds, I don't know, and Rick, we can ask you about this as well, if you want to wait. It seems to me, like, post-COVID concert crowds

and pre-COVID concert crowds are two different things. Yes. Because, like, everybody's high. Everybody's high. 100%. Yeah, I'm just, I mean, I remember the first gig we did. Hi, by the way. I remember the first gig we did.

Oh, I'm going to introduce you for good. This is the cold open. Okay, that's good. Yeah, first gig we did in the UK. And that first gig was kind of crazy because we did it at a place called Nebworth, which is a legendary country house, if you like, just outside of London.

And there's been some amazing gigs done there. But we played to about 2.5,000 people instead of 250,000 people, because they all brought their car, and they had a picnic space. And so they all sat in their cars or on the bonnet of their car, the roof of the car, whatever, and they were all given a picnic space.

So it went on for about a mile, this thing, but it was amazing because when the sun went down, everyone was using the car lights to sort of say, to for a floor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was amazing. So it was a really strange gig, but I could see, especially in the crew and the people who've been building the stage and that, you know what I mean, and everything, you could see people were really, really emotional. I mean, being on stage is an emotional thing, full stop, but being on stage in front of a crowd

But after that, all that time, it was amazing, absolutely incredible. And we did a few that summer that were just, just amazing, you know, just made you feel lucky, made you feel, I don't know, like a newfound respect for being allowed to do what you do, you know? No, 100%. It was very much like watching the crowd. It was not, versus in the past, where you would see people kind of in their bodies, for lack of a better word, where it's like, throw your hands up,

scream, shout, whatever. It's like all of that. You can just see them. just kind of in their heads. Like they're just watching it and like, you know, like just kind of taking it in. And they're enjoying, they're having a ball, but they're just in their heads just kind of watching it. And yeah, that was definitely something I noticed.

I'm like, okay, yeah, these post-COVID shows and the pre-COVID this is a whole thing. Yeah, different thing. Well, that said, ladies and gentlemen, I will say that our guest is probably beyond just fame. Okay, so he's a musician, singer, songwriter, uh, from the UK. I like to say the UK like I'm from the UK. I only lived there for four years, but I make people from the UK actually think that, you know, that I'm an actual like lifelong resident there. You know, and he came into our radar, at least my radar for a lot of us here in the

States, uh, you know, of course in the late 80s and made it absolutely impossible to forget his music. And I'll say that's an actual achievement. And even to this day, those singles, uh, very strong, very potent singles are dropped. And it's instant happiness and joy, you know. And even going as that's so much to say, I'll be it kind of an unusual achievement. But I will ask you, Fonte, if Michael Jackson owns Halloween and Mariah Carey owns Christmas,

I almost think that I guess today might own April Fool's Day, which is kind of a weird, a weird quote to say and you know i'm not even implanting that our guess is a joke or his music's a joke far from it but you know for clarification purposes i'll say that you know we all live in the the you know there's like the 20th 25th year of really the internet uh sort of in our lives and uh i think he might have been the first mean yo he may yes exactly may have been the first what we now know is internet bean culture like yes that's the first one i think you i think you i think he really was originated. Well, definitely one of the earliest examples of the sticky factor as we know, as something viral, you know, which in the eyes of Gen Z, like that's a serious achievement.

Our guess is more than a grant. Yes, it's the same. You know, you're, you're, you will be here forever long after we're, we're going from Earth. You know, and in the fact that even his name can imply, you know, not only being a proper noun, but, you know, to be Rick rolled is to, is the new okey dokey, falling for the okey doke. We're having successfully pulled a prank. I'll say that in my research, I didn't realize that YouTube themselves, when they, you know, established in 2007, 2008,

YouTube themselves actually invented what we call Rick Rowling. For the three of you that I don't know what Rick Rowling means, it's the thing where someone shares a serious video with you and then about 12 seconds. And you're a hit with, again, the irresistible course of never going to give you up. And, you know, I will say that probably during the pandemic, I've, I'm giving a shout out to my pal, Jim Grable from Philadelphia, who is one of the biggest Rick Astley fans ever. I've fallen down a vicious rabbit hole and looking at it all, anything that you do in concert,

she'll instantly send me. So, you know, to see these Springsteen covers are born to run and your Nirvana covers and, you know, the everything from your food fighters to ACDC covers, you on drums, all these things. You covering like the Smith songs. Like I'm really genuinely this, you know, I had to have you on the show because I've like discovered a rekindled fandom for our guest today. That goes way beyond just like, you know, the Rick rolling part of his his career. But, you know, there's a long time coming. So welcome to Questlef Supreme. This is Rick Astley.

Thank you for joining us, man. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be there. Thanks for that extraordinary introduction as well. I'll take that on board in a very heartfelt way. So it's nice to be it. Well, we mean it. Where are you right now?

Right now, we're between Vegas and Fresno. I'm on tour right now. I got invited last year to come to America and do a tour with. Are you ready for this? New kids on the block, on vogue, as I call them, on vogue. On vogue. I've been told you've got to say en vogue. I'm like, no, I'm European, it's on vogue.

And salt and pepper. And we're having a lot of fun, I can tell you. We had a day off yesterday, which is always night, obviously, we're in Vegas, we had a bit fun. But the gigs have just been amazing. And it's very unusual for me because I haven't done anything like this, certainly in America anyway, where you get a group of artists

together and go out and do that. I have done it in Europe and different places, but I've never really been to America and do it. And obviously, we're just having a bowl right now. So I'm on my bus right now heading to Fresno. So that also explains the video that came out with the poor of you. Bring back the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So weird because normally, you know, ousty package tours and acts get together. And, you know, they might interact with each other. whatever, but the fact that you guys got together to sort of collaborate and no one saw this coming. Like, could you explain the genesis of how that came to be who put it together? So, yeah, so we got a phone call and do you want to come and do the mixtape tour? And for me, I was kind of like, well, America is a very different ball game for me.

It's, I grew up listening and watching America and doing gigs here. Doing gigs here was always kind of like one of the pinnacle things. you know, having some records on the radio here was always an amazing thing, because I know then whether they liked them or not, whether they like my voice or not, I know Luther Van Dros heard might me sing. I know Al Green did, Bill Withers did, and those guys unknowingly taught me to sing. Do you know what I mean? So I kind of thought, I always think coming to America is an amazing thing. With a mixed texture is something completely different because the new kids fans are absolutely crazy and I'm truly sure they know by now because we've done

a few gigs, but I mean that with a lot of love, but they're absolutely crazy. So when I kind of Google, Google the previous mixtape tools and the fans and the everything, I spoke to Donnie, Donnie Walberg quite a bit about it. And I just thought, you know what, let's just do it. We're going to have a lot of fun. It's not normal in the sense that because it's a mixtape, I go on, sing some songs, and then I hang around backstage and I watch the guys, and I'm at the side of the stage watching the different artists, and then I kind of get ready to go back on stage again and do it again.

never done that. It's kind of a, it's much more of a show in that respect. Interactive. A review. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. And Donnie walked me through that and he talked me through that and explained how they do it. And so I think once you get over that and kind of realize what it is, as opposed to going up and opening for an artist and doing your 45 minutes doing your hour and then going off and done, it's a totally different thing. And also one of the things that I have huge respect for them for doing this, they open the gig. They go on first. And then they introduce an artist. Tell me a headline act in the world who just that.

Amir. Oh, okay. I'm about to say I pioneered this. Oh, okay. No, no, no, no, no. But I, no, no, no ideas original. But, you know, I always hated the ideal of like, someone goes on first, someone goes on second,

which is, you know, which is why I'm also kind of, I know it's comedy, but the old D.L. Monique thing. Because I just think that, you know, it's more unique to do Motown reviews used to be that way. Like three songs from Stevie, three songs from the Supreme, three songs to do and then people come back and interact. So I've been, I've been doing that for like 20 years. And when you said that, I was like, ah, finally someone else is doing it. That's dope. Even up until 2017, 18, and 19, there will be occasional towns in which the roots and new kids on

the block will be in the same hotel. And absolutely nothing has changed. Like now, you know, Donnie told me like, you know, back in the day, it was, it was the mothers trying to hook up the daughters, but now it's like you have

daughters taking their mothers to new kids on the block shows. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're hanging around the hotel. Yeah. But there's a lot, I'm telling you, what has kind of shocked me a little bit. Of course, most of the audiences of an age, because they were there for the first records, they bought the first records,

they went on all the tours. But I'm telling it, it's kind of odd. There's a lot of younger people in that audience, and they know all their tunes, and they are like fully paid up members of being the blockhead family and everything. And it's really nice to see, but I think, you know,

you guys were talking about the internet before. That's just changed the way that everybody listens to music, obviously, and gets their music, but also the way they feel about it. And they don't sometimes have the same, thing that I certainly did when I was a kid about, oh, that's for old people. And I don't think older people are afraid to go and say, well, you know what?

I want to go and see this artist, even though I'm old enough to be their mom or dad. I just want to go and see them. And I think that generational thing has gone away to a great degree, you know. Well, I just think the festival thing, if you look at that, it's so eclectic these days, who you can be on before or after all on the next stage two and what I have you. It's just unbelievable. So when you look at the audience,

there's a bit of that as well. You know, it's a random bag of people that just want to hear music, you know, don't really, yeah. So it's, I think it's quite a beautiful thing, to be honest. I do too. I think this, like with the audience now, you know, because no one has to pay for music anymore, I think that it's just pretty much,

they have the room to explore in a way that we didn't, you know, I mean, if we have, to go to record store you had $10 was a choice you know what I'm saying you had to make real decisions but now you know with everything available they just hear music you know and I saw them that that was what I saw at the gig like they don't even think like my kids and my son like they don't even look in terms of genre or anything if they like it they like it and that's all they know and that's all they care about yeah I think the other thing is they don't they don't actually care if the artist is dead and I don't mean that in a callous way or

and no emotion way. They're just like, I love this. What is it? Oh, it's Frank Sinatra. Oh, really? Do you know who Frank Sinatra was? Not really. Well, come and have a look at this.

I'll explain it to you. Yeah, there's no more context. There's no more new music and old music. It's just music you know and music you know. That's it. Right. Yeah. So can you tell us where in the UK were you born?

I'm assuming that you were born in the UK. Where were you born? Yeah, no, I was. I was born in a very, very small town. And it's equidistant from Liverpool and Manchester. It's right in the middle of both of them. It's about 20 miles either side. That town is called Newton Le Willows,

and that is hyphenated, as in Newton in the Willows. It sounds a lot posher than it actually is. It's okay. It was an okay place to grow up and everything, and my sister still lives there, and my mum up until she passed away recently lived there, and it's an okay town, but it's a small town. And we then, so for us,

going to either Manchester or Liverpool, was our way of going to a shop that might have some, actual trendy clothes or, you know, more than one record store. Do you know what I mean? Where you could go to like four, you know. And obviously the first time we really went to stores to go and look at musical instruments, that was in Manchester because, you know, you jumped on the train or you got, you know, an older brother sister to take you and you went into Manchester.

That was our big deal with, you know. I see. Can you tell me what your first musical memory was? It's hard to say, obviously, for anybody. I know the Jungle Book record was a massive thing for me. I mean, old kids love Disney and they love Disney music because it's amazing. The quality of it is always great.

It's still doing great music, I think. But the Jungle Book, for me, we had that vinyl record at home. And I'm the youngest of Paul. So my sister was into all kinds of music. She used to go and watch a lot of, well, she used to watch everything. She'd go into Manchester and Liverpool. And so she had a really great record collection. But a lot of her music was like, there was a lot of progressive rock in it.

But she'd also have like quite a bit of Bowie, but she'd have a lot of, you know, American classic soul as well, Marvin Gay, Stevie Wonder, obviously, things like that. She loved the Beatles as well, so I grew up with a lot of that. But I wanted the Jungle Book because obviously to me, I've been taken to the movies to see the film. And once you've seen a film like that and then you've got the vinyl of it at home, you can you can kind of watch the movie again in your head, can't you?

I just loved it. And that's, so for me, that, I probably just sat there waiting for everyone to leave the room and then got my moment to put, because we probably had one record player when I was five years old. You know what I mean? That was probably it. So, but I think in terms of, I just went to see Paul McCartney actually a week or so ago in Fort Worth in Dallas. We had a night off.

And a lot of the Beatles music, as for anybody, obviously, of course, for everybody on the planet, but it was a bit of a game change of some of those records, I think, even as a really young kid. because a lot of their music at certain times has got a lot of childlike quality to it. There is, we all live in a yellow submarine thrown in there. So that as a kid, that brings you in, do you know what I mean?

Then all of a sudden, you're listening to, I don't know, the whole Sergeant Pepper or whatever, and thinking, what is this? But it's, when I say childlike, I don't mean that in any derogatory way, obviously, I mean, there's a real innocence to some of their stuff, even though it becomes really complicated

and intricate and beautiful as well, There's a real simplicity to it at times, you know? So I think the Beatles were quite an easy one to get into as well. Well, because they were influenced by, you know, Timpan Alley, which, you know, that sort of era of music of Tim Pan Alley is closer to show tunes and musical stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, it's rather genius that you can create music that an eight-year-old,

that can stick to an eight-year-old and an 80-year-old at the same time. time. Absolutely. Yeah. And seem hip. Do you remember the first music that you purchased yourself with your own money? Well, it wasn't money exactly. My dad had given me some money to go and buy a pair of jeans, right? And there was a store. This wasn't in Manchester or Liverpool. This is a local town. So it was a small town. There was a little store that sold jeans and all kinds of different things that kids had were, you know. And he gave me the money and I went in and I bought the jeans. And I bought the jeans. I was probably only about nine years old at this point. He was probably outside in the car waiting for me kind of thing. And I went in, say nine, I could have, whatever, went in. And it also had like a little record store as part of it, which is a bit bizarre, I guess, but whatever. And you bought a pair of jeans on that day and they allowed you to have a single.

So I went in next door and I'm just looking, I had no clue. And I knew my dad was in the car like waiting. He's like, he's not going to be messed around, you know. So I just said, I'll have whatever's number one, please. And it was, luckily, it was I Feel Love by Donna Summer. So I got a great record out of it anyway. 77. Yeah, but that wasn't my, so I was 11 now, I think.

It wasn't necessarily a choice, and it wasn't really my money, if you know what I mean. It sort of came with the pair of jeans. But it was quite a thing because when I went home, I suddenly kind of realized I own this record. It's not one of my brothers or my sisters. This is mine. Do you know what I mean? Because all I'd done really was just pinched their records and just played then. You know, that's all I've done up to that point.

At least by that point, did you have a singing voice? Were you? I was always picked to be in school place. I was in a church choir as well, but it's not, as you guys will know, it's not a gospel or anything. It's a very, very church of England and very kind of straight and white and like, you know, but it's still singing with other people. And I still think that thing of a choral group of people making that,

I'm going to say noise. I'm not even going to put it in music right now. Just making that noise together is the most... What's the word to use? It's the most sort of primeval way of making music. Because, you know, when you take away the organizers, and I remember we used to do that, we used to sing just on our own a lot of the time,

especially when he was like getting us through different pieces to learn them and everything. It's just a bunch of people using this to make a noise. And it's quite... I'm not saying I use that at all today, but I think it still, it did something to me, even I only did it for a couple of years, but it definitely made me aware of the fact

that a group of people come together harmonise or not, and what have you, and make music. And there's no even instrument to go through, do you know what I mean? And I even think from a timing point of view, because I got into playing drums when I was a little kid and stuff, but I didn't say little kid,

but I was probably in the teenage years, if you're not in sync and in time as a choir, it's just a mess. And I think that even sort of got me going a bit with, you know, got to be on the rhythm, you know, on the beat and everything, you know. Basically, singing with the choir taught you out of blend with other voices and... I guess, yeah. I mean, I'm still not very good at that now, to be honest.

I'm one of those archetypal kind of big head, front person, singers that when I try and do harmonies, I do the harmony and I'm great. And then at some part, I go, oh, I've lost it now. And I start singing the lead again. Yeah, because I find it really hard to do. do it. And even when I do, you know, when I'm working on something at home and I'm just putting harmonies in and stuff, I sometimes have to map them out on a piano and then bang them into my head, do you know, I mean, literally to be able to get me sing in the harmony. So, yeah, so I don't know.

So, so by the mid-70s, and I've heard, you know, this narrative from people that grew up in London at the time. I mean, so many types of music sort of avenues could be traveled by, like, Of course, you know, the punk movement is, you know, is is, is ramping up, uh, then the sort of, I guess you could say the mod movement or, or, you know, whatever they call Rudy's or, or whatever you would categorize the specials or madness that, those types of course, yeah, yeah, Scott groups or whatever. Um, and then of course, you know, I know about the history of Northern Seoul and, uh, generally just, you know, the respect that the UK.

has for soul music in general. Yeah. And of course, you know, 77's where disco is also having its moment. What grabbed you? I mean, to be 11 at that time when there's like five options to go to. Yeah, yeah. What grabbed you the most? I think I think I've always still, I always have responded to singers, full stop, because I think as much as I admire, I mean,

And, you know, perhaps we'll get into that, I don't know. But I mean, because I started playing drums as a kid, I always loved bands that had interesting drummers. So the police, I absolutely loved. And they weren't punk, but they sort of came out of the punk thing. Phil Collins is one of my all-time favorite drummers, and he's not even remembered as a drummer half the time. It's ridiculous.

But anyway, but there you go, there you go. I know for a man that I think certainly with my sister played a lot of Motown at home. And a lot of Northern soul as well, actually. They're very, very, very similar. To be honest, I struggled to find out which is which half the time, but whatever. And all of those records are very much about the vocals. I mean, you were mentioning Motown before about when they used to go out and do tours and stuff, like a review tour and stuff.

Any one of those vocalists would, in my opinion anyway, kind of wipe the floor with a lot of people who had the chance to make records since, to be honest. I think Motown was an absolute golden era. vocalist because even though the songwriters and producers of those records were incredible and amazing and they had such a platform to go from as a singer, those voices have stood the test of time forever and I don't think there's a person with a pulse that doesn't respond to Motown. And obviously it's the groove, it's the feel, it's the everything. It's also because Marvin Gay, Diana Ross, whatever, you know, name any of them.

When they sang, you didn't question it at all. It's just truly amazing. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger.

So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clivert Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you're wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends.

I'm Anna Sinfield. And in this new season of the girlfriends, oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands.

I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, everyone?

I'm Ago Wadam. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo. Woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like,

and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about it. which is really sweet. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit.

If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat, just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Do you have a memory of your first concert? I can't remember which came first.

My sister, like I said, used to go to gigs all the time. So when I was about 10, my sister took me to see one was Super Tramp, which is self-explanatory for anybody who knows Super Tramp music. And I'm sure everyone does unless you've been living under a rock. Right. completely blown away. But blown away in loads of different ways, because I was 10, I shouldn't really have been there, perhaps, but she, I think she used to think I was like a fashion accessory to bring a 10-year-old kid to a gig where everyone's kind of smoking different things and what have you and hanging out and deliver. But it just blew me away. And their music,

I think, is because the other band, and I don't know which was first, it was a band called Camel. And that's a progressive rock band. And I've said this before, who have flute solos longer than some of the records I've made. Do you know what I mean? So it's kind of like, yeah, I mean, you know, it wasn't about vocalists, it was about the music, it was, you know, and for the Super Tramp one, I think,

was amazing for so many different reasons. They were, well, still are, but they were such an amazing band because they had great, like, sort of pop songs, maybe that's not a fair term to call them, but they were very popular, so they were pop songs. But the instrumentation, and the way they used to go about it,

was really quirky, and kind of a bit like nothing else for it, to me anyway, listening to it. So I came out of, well, both those geeks, but I can't remember which one was first. And I think it was a game changer for me. I kind of thought, I want to do that. Because when the lights went down,

it turned on the smoke machine, and then the coloured lights come on and it all, even back then, you know, going to a gig was like this mystical, mythical experience. It was like another world, you know. So, yeah, so I think both of those were game changes, yeah, big time. The first band you were in, it was called FBI.

Well, that was the second one. I was in a band called Give Way because we have a sign in the UK. You may have it in America. I can't remember. It's a triangle. It says Give Way. And our bass player, Jeff, stole one on the way home from somewhere and stuck it in front of my drums. And we said, oh, that's what we're called then.

Right. Okay. So, yeah, that was when I was still at high school, as you call it. And there were three bands who did an audition for the music team. to see who could play at the Valentine's Disco. Right, and we were like 15 going on 16 at this point. I was never one of the cool kids at school. I wasn't really a geek.

I wasn't like, you know, a SWAT or a whatever. I just got through school, if you know what I mean. I just kept my hair down and got through it. The other couple of bands, one of them was all the cool kids. Like there was a captain of the football team, captain of this, you know, the good-looking guys. They had all the good. Nice guys, but you know what I mean?

They were the cool kids, you know? And we weren't, but we could play. So we did the audition and we blew the other bands away. I was singing so lonely by the police from the drums, which was like the coolest thing in the world because it was like, you know, we were doing police songs and they were doing something that wasn't anyone near school with that. And we did a couple of other things.

We also did a Joy Division song, which again was like just the coolest thing in the world, I think. the teacher was we're not expecting that at all. And so we got the gig. And I got five Valentine's cards that year. Were you the lead singer of the group? No, no, no, the bass player Jeff was. When I used to sing a couple from the drums.

And again... Your voice was that high to sing so lonely? I sang it an octave lower. Oh, I was about to say, man. Oh, for that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and I just think, again,

talk about pivotal moments and stuff, not because I got the Valentine's cards, but we walked around school for the next two weeks, as if we were different people. Like people, I'm not, we didn't have high five back then, I don't think it was a thing to high five somebody, but it was like,

people just kind of like, you know what I mean, just getting acknowledged in the corridors at school or out in the playground or what have you. We were just, we became different people overnight because we'd done this gig, and it was like, Yeah, I don't know, really. It was very, it was very interesting, I think, in terms of your ego.

Right. And just, just the absolute joy of walking off stage going, wow, we just did that. That just happened. People actually listened and danced and, you know. So, yeah, it was pretty amazing. I went through that in high school, but I, I wasn't the band that blew everyone away. I was one of the bands that got blown away because I went to school with boys to men. so oh wow you joke yeah so i still say they cheated but you know they you know they had tuxedos and glitter and top hats and canes and everything they were singing they were singing new edition songs and i just felt like all my hopes and dreams to impress like who i wanted to impress just it went down the drain because like could they sing that great then as well were they really Dude, they were, they were, yes, they were, if ever there was a group of people ready for their close-up, it was boys to men. And the thing was that after that Valentine's thing was over, like girls were treating them like it was, you know, you ever see the I Want to Hold Your Hand movie, Robert Zemeck is his first film about the Beatles. Yeah, yeah. Like they were chasing them in like seventh period and all this stuff. I'm like, it's just them. Like, what the hell? They're not stars. They go to our school. But yeah, they, after that

performance, things were never the same again. Listen, I feel your pain. I also think it's a weird, weird, weird thing. No, I was not one of the kind of cute kids at school or good looking kids by any stretch of the imagination, right? But I think what happens is when you've been on TV and on a record cover and on a what have you, the media themselves start calling you handsome or start calling you something i don't know what but you know and and it's like now you got this wrong i'm exactly the same as i was last week it's just about a hit record but i mean that is pretty crazy to be at school with with boys to men and them singing the way they do if they were singing like that back then that must have been wild yeah they they had every girl in the palm of their hands were you thinking of a

music career by this point or was it just like you know i'll graduate school and then go to University and no I think I wanted to I think my upbringing was kind of what was it I'm from a very working class area but my dad had a little business he had he ended up having a little garden center and we all we all my two brothers and my sister and all of us kind of off and on did work there and I used to work there in school holidays and after school and all the rest of it and so we were lucky in the respect that we did kind of have a little job to go to he didn't I'd have a big he didn't employ lots of people or anything I think he employed one or two other people and then And we kind of worked there and stuff.

And the way we were from was kind of hit very, very badly in the mid and late 80s in terms of the way that the world change. You know, we don't, we don't manufacture so much in the UK anymore like America to that degree. You know, and we don't do a lot, you know, coal mines and all the, all the old things that. All the whole industry that we're still hanging on to. Yeah. And people certainly from the little town where I'm from and a lot of towns around it, those things don't exist anymore. And it was in that transition period, you know. So we were really lucky that my dad did have a little business and it survived and everything.

But we didn't really have a lot of money or anything like that. And I think for me, I just, I wanted to get out of that little town. And I wanted to go and do something with my life. I don't know what that meant. And I think the truth of it was, I kind of felt that music was a way of possibly doing that. And I did love music. Don't know wrong, I did. You know, I got a drunk it when I was 15 and I was never, ever off it, just

ever. I used to play in my dad's greenhouse, which he used to have this fairly big glass house, you know, where the plants weren't all the rest of it. And he allowed myself to have my drunk it there and my two friends to come and play there as well, which is we made an awful racket, even though we were, you know, we thought we were great. So that was pretty lucky. But I also think my mom and dad divorced when I was really, really young, and I didn't have the happiest of home lives, if you know what I mean. It wasn't, it wasn't tough, it wasn't horrible in what a lot of people have been to. But it definitely left the whole. doubt about it. My mum and dad, they both passed away now. They never spoke to each other, ever.

If my mum rang the house, my dad would just kind of like, he'd just put the phone receiver down and walk away, and that's how we knew it was my mum. Do you mean? And I was brought up by my dad. I lived with my dad because it's a long story, but I saw my mum all the time. But I think I also felt somehow, even at that age, and I'm not saying I actually knew this, but I think I felt it somewhere, that music and getting out of that was going to take me away from that. Do you know what I mean? It was going to give me a different life where I could sort of start again. And I think sometimes if you brought up in a fairly unhappy house, which I was, you just want

to kind of like turn the key on the door and walk into another space and just leave it where it is. Do you know what I mean? I'm not saying you can't ever go back there. I'm just saying, just start again. And I did feel that music was going to be the escape to do that. you know, to becoming, getting a successful balance and just start again, you know. So what if that moment happened for you where you're like, okay, I'm pursuing this 100%?

I'd have to say I was about 17, I think, because the band that I got in next was called FBI. And the first group I was in that we were in for a little while, one of the guys went to university. And so we just, and he's still a friend today, actually, I see him for coffee like once in a two weeks. He went to university and all the rest of it and we just split up. So I joined this other group and they were like, they were called FBI because of, it goes back to a group called The Shadows who were the backing bang for Cliff Richard. Do you know who Cliff Richard is? He's an English like.

I know Cliff Richard. Okay. Yeah, it goes through. So he was like the English Elvis, if you like, you know what I mean? He was like the, you know. And they had a song called FBI, I think. I think that's where it comes from. And the guy who was the lead guitarist in this band that I joined called FBI

was a shadow's freak. He absolutely loved them and saw that his dad. I think he got it from his dad, really. So they were doing covers like that. They were doing a lot of early, early Beatles songs, which are fantastic and great. Don't get me wrong, but I would have loved to have been playing some of the later Beatles songs.

But we weren't. We were playing the really, really early ones. which is still great, like I say, and for a young band to learn them anyway. And I got in that band as the drummer, and I sort of became the singer because I wanted us to kind of try and write some of our own material, and I borrowed a guitar from one of the guys,

and he showed me the three chords. And so I turned up at rehearsal a few weeks later and said, I've written some songs, should we thrash them out? And I sort of became the singer because of that, really, because they were all looking at me going, well, who's going to sing that? you know, and they said, well, you are.

So that's it. So we got a drummer. And then from that point, I think I just sort of became the singer by default, really. And at that point, I thought, if we're going to make this happen, I'm going to have to push and drive this. And I think when you started doing your own songs, you think that's a different thing. That's not just earning a living on a Friday and a Saturday and having a regular job. Do you know what I mean? Like doing your job and then earning a bit of extra money, that's how do we become, how do we become known?

How do we get people to hear these songs? And that at that point is like, well, that's what I'm going to do then, you know? By this point, are you developing the voice that we know now or you're still trying to find? Yeah, well, I think one of the things is, I think in the 80s, the late 80s, a lot of British music, there was more kind of,

it was pop, definitely pop, and it was in the charts. It was successful, but it was, a lot of people sang with a much lower tone or a lower register with her voice. It was very normal. Today, and I think for 25 years or more, everything's very, very high with male singers most of the time.

And I think back then, a lot of records had a lot of... For instance, there's a guy called Edwin Collins, who was in a band called Orange Juice, right? And he had this... Erwin Collins, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And there was a lot of them. There was... I'm trying to think right now, and I can't, because I'm on the

spot to think of them, but what I'm trying to say, there were a lot of voices that were deeper, and it was kind of cool to be that. It was edgy and it was cool. But then when I listen to, for instance, if I listen to like Bill Withers, Bill Withers is obviously the greatest. He's written some of the greatest tune. One of the things I absolutely loved and still love about Bill Withers is that he's

written some of the biggest songs in the world that five-year-old kids to 85-year-old grandmas know, everybody knows. They've been in movies, he's been of everything. But he could probably be sat next year, eating a bowl of pasta in a nice restaurant somewhere. and I think 95 to 90% of the people in the room wouldn't be able to recognize him. And I think that for me was like an amazing thing about him really. But again, that's another universe to walk into.

But I think, but he had all the soul in the world, his lyrics, the actual music itself and the way he played and everything. But his voice obviously was incredibly soulful, but he didn't really do tricks with his voice. He didn't do lots of trills and lots of this, that, the other, which a lot of people do associate with soul and R&B and everything. He didn't do that. For me, he was like a folk singer.

Just a lot of soul in it. Just a lot of soul. And so I think somebody like him, and even though Luther could obviously do anything with his voice, and I remember seeing him live and walking out of the room and just sort of going, well, just forget it then, because that's, that's it. There it is. Yeah, see, in your personal time, you tried to do a who-hoo?

to be honest, no is the answer. I very often still sing to this day. I will always sing never too much to my wife if we're ever in the car that comes on or what have you because that's one of our songs and I always sort of sing along with it. But he was one of those, I don't care what anybody says about anybody else. He was one of those singers that it didn't matter where he was in the whole range of the human voice. It sounded good everywhere. He could do anything that guy.

you know, so. I got to know Luther's long-time manager, Shep Gordon. I didn't realize how big Luther was in the UK. Yeah, to the point where I didn't realize that he could sell out like. Wembley Arena for instance. Yeah, Wembley was the gig. Back in the day, Wembley was the gig in London to go to, Wembley Arena. Luther, I think, did, I think, multiple nights there, I think.

Yeah, he did like eight or nine nights there. and he was telling me that basically Luther had a more devoted and diverse fan base. Yeah, for sure, for sure. Over there than here, you know, here, I mean, here, yes, he could still, you know, sell out Madison Square Garden and all those things like maybe one, two, three nights in a row. But, you know, it took him a long time to sort of cross over to a pop market, you know, like here and now. Or give me the reason, like there was occasional songs that made the top 10. But yeah, yeah, I didn't realize.

until like I finally watched like live and Wembley and realized that, oh, I didn't realize that Luther. He was huge. And also he, I think he and a lot of other artists around him. But I mean, he for me, vocally is the pinnacle, is no doubt really. But I mean, James Ingram was really big in the UK as well. Jeffrey Osborne, a lot of those singers around that time that, you know, I think a lot of probably a lot of their ballads were,

bigger as well, if you know what I mean. I think that was what's probably crossed them over to some degree as well. We used to go, we would go, I say we're a group of friends, some of which, most of which were in, the second band I was in, we would go to a little night. We'd go to different

clubs around us actually in different towns and into Manchester and stuff, but in our little town of Newton Lou Willows, we have a little cricket club, and it's been there forever. And they used to have Monday nights and Friday nights. The Monday nights were under 18 and the Friday were over 18. So there was alcohol and all the rest of it. But they also used to have occasionally on a Friday night. They had a guy called Kev Edwards, who was a DJ in the town and from. And he would only play records that, I'm not saying all of them were imported, but he always

used to have records before anybody else. So he would play. And we all used to go and we'd dress up. We we wore jackets and ties. This is in the, this is in the sort of 84, 85, 86, right? We would go and wear jackets and ties. Well, I'm saying 80s. Yeah, 85, 86 for sure. Cheat ones, you know, we just bought these jackets and ties

from God knows where, do you know what I mean? But we'd all go, and we'd dance in lines. And all the girls, especially new, dance moves and different routines. And a certain song would come on. And for instance, let's say, I'm not sure when never too much came out exactly, but let's say that song came on.

some of the girls have actually even have a routine for it. Oh, really? So it was choreographed and... And that's not just my little town where I'm from. That is, especially that was a very big thing in the north of England, but also in the South.

If you speak to people about... I mean, not just Luther Vandos, obviously, because I like to say, he was probably the biggest one to cross over in so many different ways. I think a lot of that music that was around that came from America, black American soul music,

was a massive part of our, are getting down and having a good night and having a good, you know, we wouldn't even drink alcohol. We'd just go out and drink an orange juice or a coke or whatever, because we wanted to go and dance to music. And that was a big thing for us.

It really, really was. What a novel idea. Now we just do it on TikTok. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying.

Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have a win. I've seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment.

And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream,

this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes.

And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care.

So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts,

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My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with him one day, and I was like, and dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up-and-coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot.

He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

take us on the path that leads you to actually pursuing a solo career and meeting with stock Edkin. Yeah, Aitken Waterman. Well, we were, the second band I was in FBI, we weren't really making waves exactly, but we were getting back to gigs and we were earning a bit of money and we were this, that, and the other. We'd have a two record labels come and have a look at us, but they were a bit, you know, we were too naive, really, and we didn't really have it together really. But anyway, one of the guys who came up to see us actually saw us in what we used to call

a battle of the bands where you would have, you know, over maybe a couple of nights or even a couple of months on different nights. Bands would come together from an area and we'd all be competing for a prize, basically, but also it was like little audiences you could get together. And to judges in one of those and he requested that he really would like to see us again. In other words, we did a showcase for him with a couple of other bands. and it sort of turns out that we kind of did that really because he liked my voice,

heard something in my voice that he thought that there was some potential in it and he could do something with it. So he asked me to come down to London and I did with the two guys who were kind of managing us at that point. And I didn't really exactly grasp who he was or what he was, but he had red leather pants

and he had a jaguar. And that was enough for me. That was enough. Red leather pants and a Jaguar. I mean, come on. He's after doing something right. Yeah, so I went down to London to meet him. And he kind of explained that, look,

he wasn't interested in signing the band. He didn't really want to work with bands. He wanted to work with vocalists because he was part of this trio that were goodwill. And they weren't really famous at that point. They hadn't really had any really big hits at that point. They were just on the cusp of it. They were right on the edge of it.

But I didn't know that. But I kind of thought, well, I signed a little deal with their production company after about six months of chatting a couple of times about it because I didn't really want to leave my friends, which they were, they were my closest friends and the rest of it. But in the end, I thought, look, I drive the van, I write the songs, I sometimes have to get people out of bed.

So I'm just going to give us a try, and I did. How hard was it breaking the news to them, though? That wasn't comfortable at all. I thought one or two of us were going to come to actual, you know, fists or what everybody, but it didn't. They didn't and it was all, you know, but it wasn't great, if I'm honest. And at one point we were just going to try and keep the band together and I was going to pursue this and see what happened and see if we could marry the two together or get something going with a single or two and then see what we could do. But anyway, I signed a deal with them after a little while and then, and then amazingly, they had a number one record with an artist called Princess.

Samuel number one? Yeah. They did that? So you know that tune. Yeah, that's a damn. Hell yeah. For starters, I didn't, wait, she's from the UK? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dog, I thought she's from Brooklyn. No, no, no. Oh, my gosh, Damio number one. Damn, they did that. So I was kind of around, they had their own studio, and I was kind of around in the process of them, I'm not saying I was on the sessions, I wasn't, but I was kind of around a little bit. And so they had this number one record, and everyone in the business in the UK went,

what is that? Who is that? Who is, who she was? Who produced it? We wrote it, what's going on? Because it was quite, it was a big record. It was a number one record. But I mean, it was also quite a sort of an ear turn. It was like, what is that? Because it was, it was, it was in, it had like a toe in a lot of different places, if you know what I mean? a finger in lots of pies. I don't know. It wasn't, I'm not saying it wasn't R&B,

but it sort of wasn't. And it was very British sounding, but it also sounded kind of like, she was a great singer, obviously is a great singer, but I'm saying it, it could have been, it was a lot of things,

you know, anyway. It was, it was, to me, it was like a lush song. It wasn't a ballot, but it also wasn't a jam, but I always heard it in clubs.

And even the, even the, the chord structures and stuff, like, it was very dreamy sounding and very, very, very unique song. I love DJ.

It's a cool record. I think it's a cool record, I think. Yeah. So anyway, so and at the time, they're also working. They just started working around that time on Dead or Alive so that, you know, you spin me around record, that whole album and everything. Right. And the record industry, I think, I mean, I'm going

back, I'm kind of putting the thoughts, I'm not saying I had the thoughts at the time, I'm just remembering what was going on and what I must have been thinking, but they were looking at a meeting where we were sign this kid and I think they'd sign somebody else as well but we're not going to get to work on them because all of a sudden we're like beginning to be a little bit hot as producer writers and people are asking for us to do things so we can't start doing our own projects because people are throwing money out us and we need to pay the bills so in a nutshell

Pete kind of sat me down and said look we're gonna you know we are going to make a record but we've got to get on with this thing right now do you want to come and live in london and you become like an assistant hang out of the studios get to see how we do you see how we do things because I was green as grass I was pretty nervous I'd only been to like twice in my life before then anyway you know and so I got to live and I ended up living at his flat for the first weeks of it and everything I just used to go into the so I would he'd be driving his Porsche because he had a Porsche as well at this point so he must have been doing something right he'd be driving this porch and he'd be on his massive 80s phone having his conversations and

I'm sat next to him this 19 year old kid going I have no idea about the language he's using because it was all about record deals and A&R people, which I didn't even know what an A&R man was at that point, all this different stuff. And I'm just trying to soak it up and learn, you know. So I ended up being at their building. I'd say for nine months, maybe even a year. And I made tea, coffee, got the sandwiches like all the other kids did in the building.

You know, all the tapeops as it used to be. And then Bonanorama came in the building, and they made some great records for them. And it just kept going. So they made all these. And then there was this sister's duo called Mel and Kim, who they had a massive success with as well. Get fresh at the weekend.

Yeah. They did that too? Yeah, yeah, they did that. Shit. Again, I thought they're still alive, but it still's like, is that team, are they still alive? Yeah, the three guys, you mean?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Dude, I had no clue that this was coming from London. Like, in my head, like, I thought this was all like New York stuff.

Well, they would be really happy to hear that, to be honest, because I think the thing with those guys, what used to frustrate me at times later on this is, is that they got pigeonholed, but they almost did it themselves. They kind of created a sound and went, that's what we do, and that's it, right? And I think artists fitted into that sound more than then, but in the early beginnings of it, I don't think they did. if you listen to that, say I'm your number one record, you listen to Spin Me Round, you listen to Mel and Kim. They are three very different sounding records, different artists, different everything. And I think they wanted to emulate like a Motown.

But unfortunately for me, I think they didn't then go out and try and find Diana Ross, Marvin Gay, Stevie Wonder. They thought they were good enough to get anyone to sing their songs and still have that thing, you know what I mean? So at what point are they ready to put you in? Like, are you ready? One of the things, one of the issues was, well, I'll just explain this for a second because, right, so they'd sign me to their production deal, right, but their little production company, which sort of went on the back burner. It kind of got shoved to the side because they were producing major hit records for artists and, you know, with big record deals.

You know what I mean? So Pete Waterman said, right, I need to sign Rick to a major record label because this is the way. this is going to work really. Them doing it themselves, they did do eventually, but I think they just thought, we just need to get him signed to a major record label and give it a really big push and all the rest of it. I think they were seeing what was happening

with some of those records and thinking, right now at the end of the 80s, you need to be with a major label. That's the way to do this, you know what I mean? So we went to see a guy called Peter Robinson, who was the head of A&R at RCA in the UK. Lovely guy. I've just met him again recently a few times,

actually. And he said, well, this is all great to Pete Waterman, but I need to hear Rick sing in front of me. I need to see him sing songs. He just sing some songs for me. I can't sign the guy just because, you know, he's going to be your next artist and you say he's great and all the rest of it. What a novel idea.

Wow. That doesn't happen now. Yeah, well, so we're in the car. We're in the Porsche on the way back and he's on the phone, right? And he said to Matt and Mike, which he's stock and aching. And they are the two musicians in the threesome, really. Pete's more A&R and ideas and all that. So, right, you need to do like a little showcase with Rick singing for Pete Robinson at RCA.

And they both went, nope, that's not what we do. We're making records. So Pete said, right, you know those demos you've got rigged? And I've done these little demos in a four-track studio back in the hometown where I'm from. I went up north, went home, got the vocals taken off, brought them down on a cassette, played the cassette for Pete Waterman, Peter Robinson from RTA, a couple of other people,

one of my kind of managers at the time, and I sang on an SM 58 microphone, which do everybody listening who doesn't know, is the Bog standard. That's what you use in it. Yeah, yeah, there you go. No reverb, and it just came out of this shitty speaker

that I'd found in the basement because I was one of the tapeops making tea and getting the biscuits, right, so I knew where all the shit the old year was, and I sang in the reception to four of my songs that I'd done, right? I played everything, demoed and everything. So as soon as I've finished the songs,

Peter Robinson from RCA says, Who wrote these songs? And Pete Waterman, at this point, has got no intention of me ever writing a song. He said, oh, he's a great songwriter as well. So because obviously he knew within a second that that was his way that he was going to get a major deal. Right.

The artist that they signed and owned and, you know, whatever. that. So I ended up, I ended up from that point getting like, I got four songs on the first album. I didn't get a single on the first album, but I got four songs. And I got like a few more on the next record and stuff like that. But I was sort of, all of a sudden, I was getting to do my demos. I think I already was actually, but I was getting to do like, really was getting to do my demos on like an SSL board with an engineer who last week had been making a number one record with Dead or live on or whatever. And I'm doing my demos like that because that's just the way it was. You know, and I used to do it at the weekend or through the night. And so I can't remember what

we were talking about to girls because I was getting excited again remembering all that. But anyway, it was like a mad, it was a mad one of those moments where it's like, I'm just going to sing their songs. And that's cool. We'll just see where it goes. So, okay, now my songs are involved. And they were naive songs. Don't get me wrong. They really, really were. But, you know, yeah, I don't know. I was really. I'm really lucky, I think, to be at the stock-haking-waterman moment where it exploded and they became this huge thing. And even though it hung around for almost a year, making tea and getting the sandwiches and tidying up the room, you know what I'm doing all of that stuff. I also got to do a lot of stuff like I used to go to the pub every night with the guys.

And I was allowed to sit on their table why they talked about, you know, how to produce this. And they talked about, well, have you heard this new record that kicked drum the way that that was this? or this baseline is amazing or what have you. And it was like a, I like doing an internship, but I just didn't realize I was doing it, you know. Were you around for like one of the songwriting sessions when they're putting songs together? Or is it always just, here, sing this, it's already done?

No, I mean, no, I mean, they're never going to give you up, for instance, the first, you know, my first song and biggest one, obviously. They'd hired a guy called Ian Kernow, he was a, well, he wasn't a programmer, but he became a programmer for them. and I mean programming the loose terms of he was an amazing keyboard player and he put tracks together for them and stuff and ideas and stuff so Mike Stock came down to his room and I was literally making the coffee I remember it I just made a fresh pot of coffee Mike Stock comes down they just bought a Fairlight computer I don't know whether you guys

ever worked with a Fairlight like in the day yes and I was like completely blown away by this I was like what what world are we living in you know and so Ian set to work and Mike stock came down, he put the chords in, and he kind of sang in the melody, the rough melody, you know, and Ian was making some notes and all the rest of it. So I just kept Ian going with coffee and biscuits and sandwiches and whatever he wanted, and I sat there, having just heard my first single, and then kind of watched it get put together. And then obviously we went upstairs and took it into the big room and all the rest of it. And, you know, and that song went through so many transitions because the bass line and the drums were very, very different than when

they began. And I've got to give credit to the Stockland and Green-Wortman guys for that, but I'm going to give more credit to Colonel Labourhams, to be honest, because they pinch the baseline from tracks. Yeah, exactly. And I think I was kind of one of the, the only artist who was actually part of their set up, if you know what I mean. A lot of the other artists came in and yeah, and some of them actually wrote with Stockton Kim Wormann or just came into the vocals or whatever it was. But I'd literally been around to the, you know,

the greasy spoon cafe. to get their lunches for the last six months, do you know what I mean, and got the copy and all the rest of it. And I even remember there was one session where a guy had come in to do a sax solo on a song. It was actually, they were doing a cover of A&2 Prater Begg by The Temptations

because Pete wanted me to sing some songs like that just to test my voice out and see whatever. So this guy came in to do a solo on it, and he said, who's singing that? It's great voice out. Who's singing? And Matt Aiken, one of the producers, said, Don't say too much because he's just walking in now with your coffee. It was so upside down that I'm making coffee for the guys doing the saxophone solo on my goddamn record.

But it was also pretty amazing because I kind of felt a bit more part of it. And I felt a bit more, I'm not saying that I earned the right to be there. But I think I at least I understood a bit more than perhaps sometimes when a young kid gets plucked from obscurity just say, right, sing this, right, off you go. This is the suit you're going to wear now off you go. Do you know what I mean? I just felt like a kind of, yeah. You know, that was Marvin's start too. You know, he started out at Motown running errands.

Really? I didn't know. Wow. Yeah, he was like running errands first and then like he was like house drummer and then, you know, once he started cozing up to Anna Gordy, then she realized that he had a velvety voice and was sort of like, hey, you're, you know. you know, you're obviously doing the wrong jobs. It's time when you start singing. I can't even imagine that. He's also one of the most beautiful looking men that ever walked the earth.

And it's like, with that, the way he looked and that voice, right? Having somebody seen that before, you know. That's how he nabbed Anna Gordy to get to the front of the line. So, you know, and to hear you tell the story, it's like, you know, you were just around. You were running errands. You're going to sing the song, whatever. at what point does it hit you that like, yo,

this is making it. Because it's not like you're one, you know, and I know that this song is now going to live forever in, you know, past pop culture. But it's also overshadowing the fact that you also had like eight

other, you know, top 10 hits as well. Yeah, but I also think that happens with artists sometimes. I mean, you can look at the greats and I don't know how many greats got now. And a lot of artists, and I'll throw myself in that, I've got one that everyone would remember them from. And then when they go on Spotify or what I mean,

they go, oh, I can't remember that one as well. And, oh, did he do that? Didn't know that? You know what I mean? There's a bit of that going on. Right. So I don't feel any, I'm not, I don't have any hang-ups about. I'm glad I've got that song because it,

it sort of opens doors and windows for me all the time. So I'm okay with it, you know. It's weird to hear that because most of the time, I'll run into artists that hate their biggest, you know, like Nirvana famously stopped playing and smells like teen spirit the last year and a half. Dayla Soul hates me, myself and I. I'm working with Mary J. Blitz right now. And Jesus, H, like, you know, the amount of number one songs he has was like, I don't do that

no more. I don't do that no more. I don't do that. Like, it's like, come on. I think a lot of it, though, I don't know, we're jumping times frame now, but a lot of dose, the fact that when I kind of quit, I was about 27, 28, and I quit for a lot of reasons I'd had enough. I knew the writing was on the wall. To sustain any kind of pop career is almost impossible, to be honest. As I say, there are some greats who've done it, but it's so difficult,

you know, because it just is. And you've got to give everything, everything you've got, time-wise, effort-wise, everything, all your energy, everything to it. And I was a bit sick of it, and I just didn't want to do it anymore, blah, blah, all those reasons. I was super lucky I got to do it for the time I did. So I didn't sing, never going to give you up altogether forever or anything else for about 15 years. The only time I ever did it, the only time I ever did it was at Friends' Weddings. That's the only time I ever did it, right? And now I do it at Friends' Kids' Weddings, which is even greater, to be honest.

That gassed me right there that they want me to do that. So that's cool. But I didn't sing those songs. I didn't sing, never going to give you up. you know, night after night or the, da-da-da. And I've sort of lived a very simple, very comfortable, thank heavens. And I do thank Evans, and I'm grateful for that, but a very obscure life, if you know what I mean,

in terms of like, you know, I haven't been famous for all those years in terms of that. I mean, I know there's been a bit of fame comeback because of Rick Rowland and, you know, whatever. And so I approach singing never going to give you up completely differently, I think, than perhaps artists who've done it for third. 33 years. When I came back to it, it's sort of happening in two ways.

A promoter who is massive in the UK and is involved in managing me as well, I bumped into him at a showcase in a tiny little pub in London because friends of mine had written the tracks and everything. And he said, look, why don't you sing? Why don't you? And I said, no, I'm done really.

I said, well, why don't you just go out and do it again? I said, well, I haven't done it for years. And he said, well, what if I... Anyway, you got in touch to do it. What if I put a little tour together? You can sing anything you want. It'll just be in front of a few hundred people, nothing big. You don't even have to sing your old songs if you don't want.

Just walk out there and sing and see if you want to do it again. I'm like, who is this guy? What, you know? And it turns out this guy is an amazing guy. And he promotes things from like Coldplay Adele right the way down to brand new bands, right? He just loves it, lives it, it, it breathes it. So I'm like, what a crazy offer of that. It's just unbelievable.

And around the same time, I also had an offer to go to Japan, and I'd always turned down all the offers to sing all my old songs. And I just thought, so anyway, so I did this little tour, and I sang Frank Sinatra, Bert Baccarat. Anything I wanted to that I remember as a kid, my mom and dad used to play. And my dad had a really great voice, actually, and he used to sing, he used to sing the wrong words, but he used to sing Frank Sinatra around the house all the time. So I went to did that with a little, you know, little brass section, a very small brass section, three guys. two or three guys, I think actually. And just, you know, just a really stand-up base, all the rest of it.

Tiny little venues, we played Ronnie Scott. They allowed us to come and do it there because we're doing that kind of thing. Went up and down the country. And I absolutely loved it. And something in my mind went, like a light bulb, just went, okay, so you can go out and sing, but it doesn't have to be your B-O- and end-all.

It's not every part of your life. You can do it when you want to do it. And I accepted this offer to go to Japan. mainly because our daughter who was 15 at the time and my wife really wanted to go so we went and we went on a really lovely trip and I sang those songs

never going to give you up together forever and a bunch of others and again the same light bulb went on of like so you go out you sing them you walk off stage you put a different jacket on and you go out for dinner and that's it right it's not like you go out there

there's 300 screaming fans there's people taking your picture you've got to do interviews all day the next day. And by the way, you'll be on a plane at 4 o'clock, going to another territory to do it all again the next. You know what I mean? You can pick and choose. You can have a life in music that isn't,

I'm not saying I can ever attain the success I have in the ages about possibly doing that, but I can enjoy it a lot more. And that's kind of what I do and what I've done ever since. Can I ask, though, okay, so one, I wanted to know what was the straw that broke the camel's back as far as you walking away. And how did you manage to make a living,

if you remind me asking for those 15 years? Yeah. Okay, first one then. I think a lot of things were just coming together. I'd add some, we had some, we like everybody has got a story about a record they made that never did anything or just didn't see the light of day, didn't get released, whatever.

So I had a couple of things like that. we did a record, an album, away from Stockton, my first one, and the first single from it was called Try for Help. And I was so lucky with that record, but I also knew, well,

I might not get to make many more. I thought, I'd love to get a couple of my favorite drummers on it. So we did some stuff with Jeff Piccaro came and played drums. We didn't actually use those sections in the end because it turned into something else. Vinic Kelly Utti came and played drums on that song.

Oh, the Masters. Wow. Yeah, yeah. And I'm sat there in a room going, I don't know what's going on. And I got to play their drum kits as well, by the way. And obviously, we had some great musicians, Andre Crouch, it's his choir that sang on the record.

And obviously, I'm sure to this day, but I think around any of that time through the 90s and onwards, if you wanted a choir, there were a couple of choirs to ask, and he was probably at the top of it. And so some of those experiences were amazing. But anyway, so that record came out. We had a top 10 in America with that song

and the top 10 in the UK and lots of different countries. So I thought, this is crazy. I've left Stock King in Waterman. I've made a record with Vinny Calliuti on it and a choir, and yet we still had a top 10. And I had long hair as well. I just grew my hair for a bit of a laugh and what I did it. And I thought, that's it.

We've turned that page. I can go and make records. Cut a long story short. Up to that point, I think I'd had like, and this sounds like sour grapes, it's not. I was just shocked by it. I just didn't understand what was going on. The next couple of singles released didn't really do anything.

We didn't get them anywhere, near the charts. And the weird thing was, they were more like pop songs than the first one. And it transpires that basically the head of RCA in the UK was moved out. A new person came along, kind of got rid of everybody and started again. And that was in that transition of in the middle of that record. So to be honest, we still, I'm not saying this, I'm not, believe me, I'm not bragging. I'm just trying to give you the facts, right?

We still sold over a million albums with one single. It just didn't go boom, if you know what I mean? and we didn't get any more singles at all in any chart anyway. It just didn't happen. And so it made me realize, and a few people who know what they're talking about, said, look, that just happens every now and again, you can be in the middle of a record. And if your record company just disintegrates,

it doesn't matter how good your record is. And even though you've had a hit with it, and the album's kind of out there and it's doing well, and it could even be top ten. In a couple of weeks, it's just going to die of death because there's nothing making it out. And what it sort of made me realize was that, unless your record company really want this to happen,

unless they're really on board, you know what I mean? You've got no chance, really. And I'd never experienced that before. And obviously, I was still a kid, really. I was young, you know. So anyway, so that record kind of ended. So we start to make, how are we going to make another one?

Are we not? Are we what have you? So I'd written a song for a song. I can say this because it's years after now, so it's cool. So Madonna was going to be in a movie called Body of Evidence with Willem Defoe. I remember that movie. God. I watched this two weeks ago.

Oh, you're joking? That's nuts. I wanted to watch. I had COVID two weeks ago, so I wanted to... Oh, wow. I wanted to watch all the horrible films I heard about, so I watched Body of Evidence. I watched Basic Instinct 2. I didn't even know there was a sequel to.

Yeah, there was a secret. Okay. Okay. Basic instinct, yes, but not basic instinct too. Right. So anyway, so somebody who is A&R in the project or what have you, sort of said, well, look, so the guy I wrote for private for help with a guy called Rob Fisher. He and I wrote a couple of songs.

This song was called Hopelessly that we wrote. We sent it in to possibly be in the movie. We got this thing back and saying, look, we absolutely love it. We're going to come to the UK. We want to be involved in how you record it. We don't necessarily produce it, but we've got to be there.

But we need it done right away because we're really close. We've just got to get this thing done. So we went, great. I was mega excited on that. But there's something in the back of my mind's going, why isn't Madonna singing this song? Why isn't she singing her own song?

Why isn't she, what's going on here? But he said, no, she doesn't want to sing any of the songs. They don't want any, they just, she wants to act and that's it. So I'm like, great, that'll do for me. Madonna's going to be part of, you know, this massive thing, and I'm going to get a song in it, and let's go. So we do the song. Everyone said, we love it.

It's great. It's perfect. We send it off. It's all great. So my record label, which is still RCA, BMG at the time, said, right, we needed to make an album because this film's coming out in a few months and did it. So have you got any songs? I said, well, I've got a lot of songs because I've been writing.

I've been, you know, just getting this trip. So I went back in the studio with the guy I had made the last album with, a guy called Gary Stevenson, who's still a good friend today. And we just got stuck into making an album. So we did. So Body of Evidence is coming out and they've decided they're not going to have any songs in Body of Evidence. They're not going to do this with a lead song because it doesn't really,

that's going to confuse people and whatever, right? Maybe they did have a song in the end. Yeah, maybe they did have a song in the end. I can't remember, but they certainly didn't have hours. I don't think they had any. I think they just had the theme music. They didn't want to confuse Madonna's career with like this music. Oh, wrong.

So what is it? Anyway, whatever. And maybe that's just the way I'm remembering it. So at this point, when I go into the record label, and I've made an album at this point, most people, when I walk in the building, are kind of looking out the window hoping not to make eye contact. Because now they don't know what to do.

Now they don't know what to do. like, is this record any good? Is it the right record? Should we be doing this? I'd like to keep my career, so I'm just going to look out the window when he walks in the building. And at this point, I'm like, you know what? I think I'm just going to walk away. I think I'm just going to say, look, while no one's watching, and they obviously weren't, I'm just going to walk, I'm going to walk out the side door. And I spoke to my manager, who spoke to my lawyer. I was doing promotion for that record that had this song hopelessly, which was going to be there, whatever. And I think we were getting a bit of, we're sort of getting a bit of headway in,

in America, actually, funny enough. And I was, I was going to the airport, I was going to Heathrow, to get on a plane, to go to New York, to be on a TV show, forget which one, to sing this song hopelessly. And it was sort of getting played a little bit, but it wasn't getting the full, do you know what I mean? And something in me said, I've got a daughter at home, who is like, you know, one year old, I think she was, something like that. I've just done loads of promotion in Europe, and it all felt pointless. I don't know whether you guys have been there, but it just felt pointless.

It felt like, you know, it almost felt embarrassing, like, sort of like, we should just not be doing this, really. They don't want to do it. I'm not sure I want to do it anymore. So I'm going to Heathrow, and I turn around to my manager,

who's still one of my closest people in my life, and, you know, he's a bit of a surrogate father. And I said, I think I'm done. And he's like, what do you mean? I just don't want to go, and I don't want to go. And I don't want to do this. And I knew what it meant, because I knew that that's it. You know, you don't, you don't not go to New York to go and do a TV show on the record company go, oh, that's fine.

I said, I think I'm done. So he said, fine, let's call, let's call the lawyer and we'll just see if they'll let you walk away and forget about it. And we'll shake hands and we'll do that. And so we turned the car around and I went home and I cried a bit. You know, I did obviously. I knew what it meant. And I just went home. And we had a bit of a hug and he drove home and he called my lawyer.

and be called BMG. And to be fair to them, they said, yeah, we're okay with it. If he wants to quit, we don't want to do it anymore. And that was it. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way,

this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of The Girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist.

I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care, so they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the Girlfriends. Trust me, babe.

on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, everyone? I'm Ego Vodom. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but.

I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration.

It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat just hang in there yeah it would not be right it wouldn't be that there's a lot of luck listen to thanks dad on the iHeart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast that's a rarity to one that's about as good as it gets in this business like yeah because most people will try to force their will yeah but but i think also i've done the very explosive pop career you know one of those kind of like boom sort of like i'd never really I don't think I'd really come to terms with a lot of it. I don't think I'd not grown up.

I'd done from being 19 to signing a little production deal, 21's massive single on a really big album. It was huge that album and around the world and everything and knots. And I never really, I never really, I think, got to sort of get totally comfortable, I don't think. I think I was always chasing my tail and always kind of like, I almost felt like I was always running after a bus that was just always like leaving the depot before I got. You know what I mean?

And so I didn't grow up as a human. I've become a dad, but I don't really felt, I didn't feel like a grown-up, you know what I mean? So, and anyway, I'm going to, sorry, very long answer. So the next part of the equation is this. That first album did really, really well. I wrote four songs on my own on it. The next album did pretty well. It did about half what the second one did, and I wrote five or six of them. So, and even the Cry for Help song that was on that album called Free, you know, we did a million something with that record, and I wrote a lot of those tunes and produced it and blah, blah, so in other words, I made quite a lot of money because we sold a lot of,

you know, that first album sold over $8 million, I think. You know what I mean? So we sold a lot of records back then because if you had a hit couple of songs, pop songs, that very often meant you sold a lot of records. And so I just kind of was comfortable with that, But I've never owned a fleet of Ferraris. I've never driven a Rolls Royce into a swimming pool. You weren't balling out of control.

No, I've been, I think, again, I owe that back to my upbringing in the sense that I'm from a very working class area. My dad had a little business, so I always knew there was a tax member. I didn't understand what it meant as a kid, but I knew he was coming. I knew he wanted some money from my dad. Do you know what I mean? Right, right. So my dad would be sat at home doing his paperwork and he'd be going, right, well, that's for the taxman.

I'm like, what, what? I kind of thought a taxman was going to come with a bag almost, you know what I mean as a kid. I thought he was going to knock on the jungle, give me the money, you know, but I always knew that was there. And so I think every bit of money that I earned, I think also because I was so busy for like, certainly the first three, four years,

well, I only did it for four or five years, the first three years of it, I was so busy. I didn't buy anything. I think you even buy a house until quite a few, you know what I mean? Because I was always traveling. I was always away. moving. Yeah. Yeah. So, and also I think that whole kind of like MTV Cribs look at my house

lifestyle, unless you were one of the absolute greats, Elton John, the who, to what have you, you know, whoever, you didn't, you didn't live like that. I think people just got on with it and then realized they made some money some years later. You know what I mean? You tell that to my friends. You work with Elton John, man. Speaking with, what was it like working with him? Yeah, I mean, that guy is amazing. in so many different ways. He got in touch.

Cut a long story short, the first time any sort of connection was never going to give you up, got this award at the BPI Awards, a single of the year. And because it was live back then, it was at the Albert Hall. And funnily enough, just mentioned The Who,

the Who were closing the show and they were playing live at the Albert Hall. So the award for single is pretty much one of the last awards. So I was stood on this podium and waiting to get the award with the audience looking at me, but not the TV audience. And I've got this camera on me,

and to me, I'm thinking the camera's on. So I'm just stood there, waiting for someone to stand up and go, and the single of the ear goes to Rick Hasley, but I'm just stood there, and the Albert Hall's low looking at me. And I'm like, but it didn't happen. No one came on the podium, and no one gave me the award. And somebody just went, ladies and gentlemen, the who?

And they just steamed into like, I don't know what, so I'm just stood there going, what is going on? And I'm literally stood there. on this round podium just in the middle somewhere. And I'm going like, do it? And the camera's still looking around, I'm going, what do I do? Do I walk? Do I walk away?

Do I look at the who? And do I don't know what to do. And eventually, I just kind of like, just sideways, just kind of walked out of the picture. Your Irish ex did it. I just walked, right? Anyway, I wasn't even upset because I was too in this sort of nonsense of it all.

To be upset, I was like, I don't know what's going on. It's telling us it's live TV. So I woke up, but believe me backstage, it all kicked off. My God, there was some, like, whihers, you know, I mean, there really was. And my manager was really angry. I mean, he was, like, fuming, you know what I mean? And the stock-hapinging, Warp and guys were going

apeshit, you know what I mean? It was a big deal, because, like, they'd actually written and produced the song that had done, you know what I mean, the business that year and blah, blah. So, anyway, a couple of days later, a crate of, I think it was Cristal, champagne, arrived at my manager's office from Elton John to me

saying like I'm really, really sorry what an awful thing to happen that's absolutely terrible all the best, keep on making music, don't let it get you down, do it, a really nice level.

And I was just thinking like, this is just, how amazing is that? You know what I mean? To sort of, obviously as time has gone on, I've obviously understood he's had his moments in life,

I'm sure where he's been let down and he's been, do you know what I mean? And I think he's always, he's always done that thing of reaching out to younger artists sort of saying, if you ever want any advice,

if you ever want to, you know, so he invited myself out and my wife and I went to dinner with him and a few friends. And he was just chatting about stuff, really, and just being a nice dude, you know what I mean,

and just kind of saying, look, if you ever want to talk, if you ever get, you know, and I also think because obviously he, especially in the latter, you know, years, I think he's also been very helpful to people who have been going through major problems, you know, with drugs and drinking

and all the rest of it and all kinds of things, you know. I think that's what his life is about really now. He's about more giving back than it is taking, you know what I mean? But anyway, that's another world to go into. So, but on that dinner that night, he said, look, if you ever want me to come and play, you know, if you want to come and play on a record, just get in touch, you know,

and I'm like, and I'm listening to him, say the words, but I'm not really computing it. So anyway, sure enough, sure enough he did. He came and played, and he just rolled up, he just rocked up and just played piano on a couple of songs on that record that I did when I left, so I think of war. and he's just always been great.

I made a record a few years ago when I turned 50. I made a record in my garage at home. 50. Just to sort of, just to kind of say to myself what I could do. I didn't even have a record deal at the time. And we went to see him in Vegas. And I'm saying this because I want to, I'm proud of myself,

but I also want to say how great he is in it in that same sentence. We went to see him just because we've seen him a bunch of times. And I wanted to see the show that he does in Vegas. He was doing the Red Jam. He's just sat there and he knows him in the audience kind of thing. And he sat there and he just says to the audience, he said, by and away, he's a young man in the audience tonight, not when I was young, but there's a guy in the audience tonight.

He said, if you're going to buy a record, if you're going to buy a record in the next few weeks or next months, it's by Rick Astley's record. Buy Rick Astley's record. It's an absolutely fantastic record. And I'm like, what is going on? You know, it's like... Wow.

And he's always done things like that. I mean, for loads of artists, I think, and, you know, he's always, he's still keen on working with other artists and doing duets, and all the rest of it. And so I just think he's one of those people. I know some people around him. I'm really good friends with David Johnson,

his MD and his guitar player for all the years that he's been going, really. So I've been to loads of his gigs and, you know, been around some of the stories and some backgrounds on the Lion King, some of those songs and stuff like, because I was just there. He just, someone says, like, get in there,

go on, go and sing, you know, and stuff. And I just think he's one of those people who's still in love with music. He's still, back in the days of CDs and what have you, he would go into stores. I'm sure you've heard this story. It's legend. Go in there and come out with two great big bags of CDs because he still wanted to be like, what's going on?

I should know what's going on. And I want to hear that thing. You know, what is it? No, he's the real deal. He was one of the first people to, the very first people to, when I won the BAFTA and the Oscar, he was one of the first people to Cole called me and congratulate me. You know, he's like, he's like, that. Wait, before we wrap up, I always wanted to know, are you shocked at the level of adoration

that you're getting for like these cover songs that you do in your show now? And speaking of NEPworth, did you resist the temptation to do a Zeppelin song at NEPworth when you did it? Yeah, no, it wasn't that kind of a NEPWR, to be honest. I think it was just because it was big enough to get two and a thousand cars in there with gardens, private gardens, or whatever you want to call and whatever. Right. No, it's funny. I've never really got the lead out, to be honest. I've got friends who are so into Zeppelin, it's freaky. And obviously, John Bonham, that's another story, right?

It's like, just great. But I think it's never really, I'm not saying I'm not a fan, and I don't appreciate Zeppelin. But it's, I'm, if I ever go, well, and I do love a lot of rock music. I still play drums in a midlife crisis punk rock covers band for Phelan and what have you. and we go from like, um, uh,

more ACDC, to be honest. And then, yeah, saw the back and black one. Right, okay, and more sort of punky rock sort of things.

Um, I just, the thing is, it's how I start. It's how most people start. You start by covering other people's songs. Mm-hmm. And there's a real joy in doing it.

There's a real, um, well, you look like you're having the time of your life when you're doing it. Yeah, I do. I love it. And every time,

for instance, we toured in the UK, um, in October into November and we'd postponed that tour a couple of times

and so I went into rehearsals and they know what's coming in my band and crew and everything they know I'm going to walk in on the last day because I don't like to give people much warning

and say right we're doing we're going to do watermelon sugar by Harry Styles and everyone's like right fine what key how we're going to learn it yeah and they just got to play it

but the other reason I kind of like to do that is because if we can't all just shuffle into it and just play it and make it work we shouldn't be doing it unless it just sort of happens instantly. So we've done loads of covers,

and I just, I love doing it. I still absolutely love it. And I think, to be honest, there's an element about doing other people's songs, that there's a tension relief, because it's like, you're just doing a cover. Do you know what I mean? It's not like you're trying to represent for the audience

something they've paid to come and watch. They've sort of gone, right. I bought that first album 30 or years ago. I wanted him to do never going to give you up. wanting to sound like the record. I want him to, you know what I mean? I feel I hold them that. You know what I mean?

And that's not in a negative. I want to give them that. But I think when you do covers, you can just sort of say, it don't really matter. I don't mean that with any disrespect to the artist at all. I just mean, it's just having fun.

You know, I think all artists like covering other people songs. It's just, I totally get it. You know, it's just, it's just fun. Yeah. So my last question is,

who explained to you what Rick Rowling was. Okay. I have one of my closest friends, a guy called Andrew Frampton, and he is a, and his brother, actually, Daniel, has mixed and engineered last couple of albums for me and stuff, but Andrew is a producer and a writer and lots of other things. He, I was on holiday in Italy, and he literally ripped all me in an email. So this is years ago, obviously. And I'm like, so I just emailed him back and going, okay, whatever, whatever, send. And then, so, this is years ago. And then, so I just emailed him back, obviously. And I'm like, so I'm like, so I just email him back, And then so he did it again. And I'm like, replied an answer to him saying, what are you doing?

You know what I mean? We've known each of the years, right? Like, what are you actually doing? What, you know, because I didn't grasp what it was at all. And it's also, this is the early days of YouTube. It's the early days of someone getting an email with a video link in it. I mean, I know that's like just so makes me like a granddad. But I mean, it was early that.

That was quite a novel thing. Right. So in the end, we're on, we're on our holiday in Italy. We were on the Amalfi Coast. I remember where I was and everything, I would tell everything. So I get on the phone to him like, Andrew, what the hell are you doing, right? What are you doing kind of thing? And he's laughing.

And he's like, so you don't know what a Rickroll is. I'm like, no, I don't even know the term, the language, the nothing. So he kind of explained it to me. And even then I still sort of thought, no, this is just him joking. This is just him doing this and a couple of other friends that he's going to get to email me and do whatever. And I had no idea that it was actually this little bubble on the internet. internet, that people were, you know. So, to be honest, I give credit to my daughter for mostly putting me right about it.

I'd been nominated for an MTV award in whenever it was, 15 years ago. Something to do with best live act or best act or best something, which all they were doing, they were jumping on the Rickroll thing. And they were having a bit of fun. They were having a bit of fun, possibly at my expense and that's whatever. But it was going to be in Liverpool, and I knew that Sir Paul McCartney was going to be getting a lifetime achievement award from Bono in Liverpool, right? Right. And I'm like, am I going to go to that?

No, I am not, right? I wasn't even really going to go anyway, but I thought, I'm definitely not going there. If it would have been in Leipzig or Hamburg or Brussels, I might have gone to that, right? Right. I ain't going to Liverpool with Sir Paul McCartney and Bonner. That ain't happening, right? And my daughter said, she said, look, there's no way you're going to that. that. That's just like some, and I said, no, you're right. You know, and she was like 15, 16,

whatever she was. He said, you do realize it's got nothing to do with you. And I went, and I was actually, I was stunned, actually. I'm like, what to me he's got nothing to? It actually says, Rick, roll. I'm the Rick in the Rick role. It's the video. I'm in the video. He said, yeah, it's got nothing to do with you. And it was like really wise words. Freeing. From a young woman, young girl. Because she was, is absolutely right. It's it's got everything to do with me and nothing to do with me at the exact same time. And it's probably the best bit of advice that I ever had about it all of it. And that is to say, it's over there and it's doing whatever it is and it's a thing and it's whatever of you. And it can be

fun and you can even enjoy the fun and get involved in it sometimes. But it isn't, it's a thing and it's a whatever. Just it's there, whatever it is. And that's because she was of the generation to understand the internet way more than I was. So, you know, even though I'd had it explained by one of my best friends who was my age, her explanation of it in a real way was kind of a lot more useful to me, if you know what I mean? What's your most famous Rick Roll Turned Down that you've done? Like, I'm not doing that. Well, I get really commercial ones for money, basically, with products and things and all the rest of it.

And I don't, I'll do ones that I think are okay and I think they're fine and they're not, you know, in any way. And also because if they have a bit of a sense of humor about it, if you know what I mean. I'll just on, I say just a few months ago, did one for a video game for Guardians of the Galaxy. And I loved that movie. The first movie when it came out, absolutely loved it. And the way they use music, I think is such a blessing. Because kids know those songs, even the ones from the 70s, 80s, whatever, they know those songs. Like we were talking at the very beginning, all three of us talking at the beginning about how we listen to music, how we come across it and stuff.

So I thought that was a really cool thing to do and the guys who made the video game are really great. So I'm more than happy to be invited to do that. But there's just times when I just look at it and I go no, I just don't feel that. It's just and I also think it's a really difficult thing to navigate

I think how far to just do something for money. Don't get me wrong. My wife and I, my wife manages me and we have we have a criteria of things that need answering. The first one that usually comes up is where is it? Because if somebody says it's in Santiago in Chile, then we're almost on the plane, right?

And I don't love flying, but we're almost on the plane because we have great promoters down there, we've got some great wine down there, we love it down there. And if someone says to you, you know, somewhere like that or anywhere in South America, that's like a, you know, Japan have been to quite a few times one way or another different places. There's lots of places in the world. coming back to America and getting to go to towns and cities in such a way like this with the guys on everything.

It's been such a trait really, not something I can do on my own in any way, shape or form. So, you know, but the truth of it is, it's like, where is it? It's also kind of, yes, there's money involved usually as cost there is. But what we also look at is we sometimes say, well, you know what? We'll do that because that basically means we can do this. Well, we're not going to make any money, but I just really want to do it. By the time we've flown the band and the crew there, it's probably going to cost me money, but I really want to do it.

I really want to do it, and that pays for it. And I'm not afraid or embarrassed to talk about that, because at the end of the day, music is a business, and it has to kind of balance out at some point, and you pick and choose, and you do the ones, you know. So I think I've just always used my head in terms of thinking about the Rickroll thing and I'm never going to give you up and saying,

look, I don't want to bleed it dry because I don't. But sometimes there's opportunities that come along, and sometimes they just happen. Sometimes they just happen in front of me, and it's like, I'm getting on the stage, and I'm singing that song right now, because it's just happening. It's tricky, and like you said,

there's a lot of artists who want to run a million miles from their biggest, oldest song. And I kind of go the other way. I sort of embrace it, and it's like an old jacket, and it's kept me warm for 30-odd years. Do you know what I mean? So I just, I have that kind of like, comfortable love for it, I think.

Well, that's inspirational, because I'm a human being that is still slowly, you know, highly uncomfortable when nice gestures happen or people show you love or that sort of thing. Like, I would have probably been the opposite and run away from it. But, you know, I'm, it's really inspiring to see someone in a healthy way, just embrace. embrace their work and really enjoy it and not be serious,

but not take themselves that seriously because, you know, I've run across many an artists that does nothing but try to sabotage a good thing. I understand it. I do understand it. Don't get me wrong. I do. And like I say that me having that 15 years or more not doing it is what I think allows me to be comfortable about it now because I'm not doing it anymore and I'm not wrapped up in

it. And don't get me wrong, I want to represent it. When I sing it live, you know, when I'm out with new kids doing this or whether I'm doing my own shows, wherever it is, I want to go out and sing that song the best I possibly can. And I want anybody who remembers it and has some love for it to have that emotion with me and vice versa and share it a bit and say, yeah, I was there.

I bought the T-shirt, I remember. You know, because I go to, whether it's Paul McCartney, in Fort Worth the other week, or whether it's somebody who's nowhere near his level of, you know, greatness or whatever, whether it's somebody just starting out or what have you, if I've got a connection with them because I, you know, love that record, then I want to feel that in the room. And if I feel they're up and doing it, just painting my numbers up there, going looking at the watch, going, I'll be off the stage at 10 minutes.

I'm like, I'd rather walk out. I don't want to know. Do you know what I mean? We still got to respect it, I think. However old the song is, and it's... even if it's become an internet meme, you still have to respect what the true emotion of it when somebody heard it the first time. I appreciate you for, you know,

taking the time out with us and sharing your journey and your story. And, you know, whether on the radio or Ted Lassau or the internet, you know, the song's going to be here forever, man. It won't be a forever. And I appreciate you for sharing this with us. And this is Rick Astley on Quest Love Supreme on behalf of, Fonticolo, Sugar Steve, unpaid Bill,

and myself and Laiaa. Thank you guys, and we'll see you on the next go round of Questlove Supreme. All right, y'all. Questlove Supreme is a production of I-Heart Radio. For more podcasts from I-Hart Radio, visit the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or

wherever you listen to your favorite shows. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the Fourth. You might have seen the kids, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed, I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves.

We always say that trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends, trust me, babe, on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This week, I got you. on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft, and we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East-West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects.

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