The Questlove Show - Questlove Supreme: Rick Rubin

Episode Date: July 8, 2020

He has coined himself the great "Reducer". However, his imprint on hip hop can not be reduced. Rick Rubin established one of the greatest record labels of all time, which we know as Def Jam and has been going ever since. His sound has been requested by the greats of our time. From the LL Cool J, Red Hot Chilli Peppers to Kanye West and the Dixie Chicks to Mick Jagger and more. Rick Rubin is the guru of sound. He is also one of Questlove Supreme's most awaited and anticipated interviews. Yes, class is back in session so take a seat! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Questlove Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of Questlove Supreme. My name is Questlove. We're here today with Laia, Sugar Steve. unpaid Bill and Fon Tigolo I'm what up what up

Hello I will say that our guest today is world renown he's a world renown reducer those are his words not my words world renown reducer from establishing one of the greatest

hip-hop labels in history Def Jam to working with all the greats from red out chili pepper Tom Petty there's Slayer there's the cult, there's Kanye West, there's Dixie Chicks, there's Mick Jagger, there's Neil Diamond, there's the roots. I'm putting it out there. Anyway, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome

the guru of music to Quest Love Supreme, the one and only. Rick Rubin, thank you for doing this. Our show today. Finally, where are you currently right now, Rick? I am right now in Kauai on lockdown. Not a bad place to be on lockdown. Do you consider, is that home for you, or is it just like, okay, if I have to be on lockdown, I'd rather be in this particular environment? We mainly live in Malibu and spend some time here usually in the winter. And this year, the winter extended because of the lockdown. So it seemed like a better place to be on lockdown.

Ah, okay. Are you able to operate under your sort of your creative guys, at least, in Kauai or are all your toys in L.A. Toys are in L.A., but we have a setup here that's working well. You have an extensive history, so I was debating with myself whether or not to do the normal chronological thing or should we just go kamikaze because there's so many stories I want to learn about your production. But I do want to know about your introduction to music.

First of all, where were you born? Long Beach, Long Island. Long Beach, Long Island. Is that where you're born on Pay Bill? No, I was just born on Long Island. Shout out to Long Island. Oh, okay. All right, birds of a feather.

That's cool. What was the very first record that you purchased? I remember buying, I don't remember what was the first one, but I remember the experience of buying seven inches. I can remember shopping for 45s in Times Square store in Oceanside. and Snoopy versus the Red Baron may have been one of them, but I don't remember exactly what the record was. What was the moment that you realized that, okay, I'd like a space in the music world,

or that's what I want to do? I don't know that I ever had that feeling. I mean, I knew that I loved it, and I knew that it would be a huge part of my life, but I never thought it would be my job. Really? Okay. I didn't think that was a realistic possibility. I was going to have a real job and that would support my music habit.

What were you planning on becoming? I was on track. My parents had me on a track to be a lawyer that would have been there. Wow. Their wish would have either been a doctor or a lawyer. And I was afraid of needles and blood. I don't know. And then I thought, oh, well, there are lawyers involved in the music industry.

So maybe I could be involved in that. way because I'd have to have a job, but my real love is music. But I didn't know anyone who did music as a job. I didn't think that was a real thing. What were your parents? My dad was a businessman, store owner. My mom was a housewife. Is Rick Rubin your birth name? Frederick J. Rubin is the name I was born with, but I was called Rick from the time I was a kid. No one ever called me anything else. Yeah, you would have been a lawyer. Redmond attorney at law. Yeah. That's why. That's a That's a lawyer's name. Okay, I get it.

I know there's a story that I heard about once performing at CBGBs, and it was less than desirable. And I believe the end result was your father coming down from Long Island, but he was dressed as a cop. Did I make up that story in my mind? Or something like I don't remember ever telling that story, but the story is around and it may be rooted in something that actually happened. I have a vague memory of it, but I don't remember.

I can't remember telling the story, but I think it might have happened. I think the story that I heard was that you were in a band called The Pricks, I believe, and either it's kind of like, you know, a modern show time of the Apollo story where the opening actor or another act brings all their fans down. They were heckling you guys. You guys only did like two songs. And then to give revenge on the other band, your dad came down dressed as a cop. trying to shut the show down or something like that nothing nothing like that happened i yeah

yeah that's not the story i didn't know if that was an urban legend or for real that's an urban legend but in the sort of theatrical punk rock pandemonium of making a show more exciting it is possible that my dad dressed as a cop to stop the show our show not to affect anyone else because it would have it just created a something. I can remember the time we did a show where we worked it out for the sprinkler, the fire sprinklers to go off during the show and just create a general sense of pandemonium in the room. And what were you, were you, what instrument did you play in the band? Guitar. Are you a guitarist? Okay. Gotcha. I did, I was not, I wouldn't say I was a guitarist, but I played the guitar. You played the guitar. Being as though we rarely get guests on the show that were

really, really of age. And I mean, like in their, in their early 20s, at least in New York City, much as much is made about the legend of, of what night life culture was in New York City. And because you had like one foot playing in CBGBs, I don't know about your history, or Dancetaria or those hip hop clubs at the time. But to key just briefly describe what the environment was like in the first half of the 80s as far as club life. concerned like do you see it with fond memories now was it the best time ever are you one of those people that are like ah man new york in the early 80s there's nothing like it ever like no it was incredible these romanticized feelings about it yes it was an incredible time and we would go out every

night and uh there was very little hip hop at that time you couldn't really see hip hop you could only see hip hop one night a week but we went out every night and you would see um there was It was a thriving dance music scene that would have had like groups like Liquid Liquid and ESG and Kunk. Oh, wow. Okay. You got to see them in person? All everybody. I saw everybody.

What were they like? Incredible. Like ESG, what would they like? It was just all around the base. It was sort of like a, if you think about it, looking back, it would be, you'd say it was a pretty boring show. But the group was incredible. but it wasn't like a show like putting on a show. It was like people in a band standing on stage and playing their songs.

So it wasn't theatrical in any way. ESG, as I recall. I think I saw them play at Dancetiria, if I remember correctly. Wow. Wow. But we would go, like, if a band was playing at Irving Plaza, we'd go to Irving Plaza. If a band was playing at the mud club, we'd go to the mud club. Maxis Kansas City.

I caught the tail end of Maxis's, Kansas City. I saw James White and the Blacks play there. I saw Devo play there. I saw Wayne County, maybe Jane County at that time. I saw so many great shows. I saw the bad brains play at CBGB's. I saw the bad brains play at Irving Plaza. I saw a minor threat play at Irving Plaza. I saw the cramps, which was my very first technically punk rock show at Irving Plaza. And then the there'd be a gig at the Garden. I remember seeing David Bowie at Madison Square Garden in the same night seeing the bad brains after at CBGB's.

That would be a typical... It was an incredible time to be a fan of music. And there was both this live performance scene of music, and then there was also this incredible dance music scene with places like Danciteria, then area. The garage was still going. going on. So it really, you could, you could get very different experiences, even on the same night, going from club to club. And then when hip hop started bubbling, the only place you could really

see it downtown was at Nagrille, which was a reggae club on Avenue A, I believe. If I remember correctly, I think it was either, sadly now is just a Jamaican restaurant. I was about to say that to say. It was down to fly to stairs. Is it still there? Yeah, it's still there, but it's... They ain't barely open. Shadow of what it used to be. But that's the place that I used to go to see Jazzy Jay and Africa Islam and Busy B and Treacherous Three. And everybody played there.

And it was one night a week, Tuesday, KLB Productions, Cool Lady Blue. And then when it got big, after it got big, then they moved it to the Roxy. That was one night a week at the Rox. I went to the Roxy the first night ever that it was hip hop. And it was this giant roller rink with maybe, I don't know, there were maybe 50 of us there for the first night. And then it ended up just watching it grow every week and get bigger and bigger and bigger until it became what it became, you know.

So I know about your dorm being Def Jam's headquarters, but what was your major at NYU when you were attending? I started as a philosophy. major and after two years I switched to film and television because as I said I was planning on going to law school You don't need a particular Under the degree you have undergraduate degree doesn't matter to get into law school And most of my friends that I like hanging out with were in film school and that just seemed more fun than than the liberal arts side that I was that I started on so I just switched over since didn't matter

What year was Def Jam as a punk label started first what year? 83, 84, something like that. Who were the artist on the label at the time? The only records that I made of my own band. All there was was Hose, H-O-S-E. And there was a 12-inch and a 7-inch, a 12-inch EP and a 7-inch.

That's all there was. And then I made my first hip-hop record, which was, it's yours. And I'll tell you the story of how that came about, because it's interesting. Again, if you want to hear it, I'll tell you. No, yes, yes. We're rabbit hole central.

We're waiting. Story time. My favorite group at the time were the Treacherous Three. And I didn't know anything at all about the record business. I didn't know that there were, I didn't know what a producer did. I didn't know that there were record companies. I didn't know that people had contracts.

I literally knew nothing other than I love music more than anything. I read everything I could read about music. I read even Billboard, which was a weird thing for a kid to read when I was even in, you know, sixth grade, seventh grade, I would read Billboard just because there might be a little story about an artist I liked. And it never made, like, I was never really interested in what it said, but I just wanted to learn anything there was to learn about anyone that I liked in music. So if I saw their name in an article, I had to read it. I reached out to, after the show at Noghryl, I reached out to Kumodi. Kumu is my favorite MC and gave him my number and I said, let's get together and chat. Now, Kumo D was going to school on Long Island.

So we were all like college age at this time. And then Kumodhi came to visit me at the dorm. That was my first attempt at being involved in this thing that I loved. and I said they had been making records on enjoy records, which I loved. And then they made their first thing, the first thing that came out, if I remember correctly,

I'm not sure the timing of this, but I heard a treacherous three song that I thought wasn't as good as all the ones that I liked. Was it yes, we can, can on Sugar Hill? Might have been. I didn't like that either.

Yeah. Yeah. So I might have been. So as a fan, I said, let's get together. I just want to talk to you about this music. I'm a fan. I want to talk to you. And then I said, and again, I was, I had great confidence in my taste, just because I really, you know, I truly felt it with all of my heart. And this was in a time when not a lot of people were listening to this music. It was a tiny underground scene at the time. You have to keep in mind. This is, there were, the first round of deaf jam.

records, we might have pressed up, you know, three thousand copies. You know, that might be the starting run of a record. So that's how big the world of hip hop was at that time. By this point, is this pre or post, it's yours? Like, what was it about you that may? This is leading up to there's no, I've done nothing. Oh, so he just, he just befriended you on trust, not knowing anything about your, no, he didn't even befriend me on trust. He's just like, somebody care. in a time when nobody cared. When nobody cares. That's what I'm saying.

You have to understand. It was a tiny little world that nobody was interested in. I was interested. I could speak about it with passion because I had that passion. So there weren't that many heads at that moment in time.

So I get together with Kumodi and I say, okay, the records you made on enjoy are great. Now there's this new thing. It's not as good as the rest. Let's figure out together. I'm your fan. I don't want it to go that way.

I don't want it to get worse. Let's figure out how to make it get better. Yeah. And let's figure out, I swear it's true. Let's figure out how to do this. That's great. And he said, I would love to do this, but I can't do this. We're signed to Sugar Hill.

I didn't, again, I had no idea. I didn't know anything. I didn't know what a producer was. I didn't know that there were contracts. But he said, we're signed to Sugar Hill, but you should talk to Special K. He's in the group and he writes, he might have, an idea. So he introduced me to Special K, got together with Special K, and Special K said, okay, I like the idea. And I was already programming beats. So I played him some beats on my 808.

Special K said, okay, I wrote, I just wrote this record called It's Yours. I can't do it because I'm signed to Sugar Hill, but Tila Rock can do it. He's where related. And that's the It really happened by me wanting to work with Tretorist 3, them saying, me not knowing, me not knowing anything about business, and them basically saying, this is the guy who can do the song, and Special K wrote the lyrics. It was essentially a, like a Special K solo record, lyrically. What? And even lyrically, that was really ahead of his time, even back then. Absolutely. It was incredible. Wait a minute. No one knows the story.

No one ever asked. I don't know that special point. It's yours. Wait, Rick, are you even familiar about the Tila Rock situation right now? I've heard a little bit recently. I don't know much.

No, what's going on now? No, what's going on? It's in, okay, I won't do any, I won't do any justice to the story. I'll just say that if you Google Tila Rock GQ Magazine, GQ magazine damn near gave Tela Rock a seven page feature story. Long story short, I meet this woman, this like this high society, hoity toady,

upscale woman from like the west side. And she comes to me and says, hey, I'm doing, think of like the woman, the woman in wild style, like totally a fish out of water. Right, right, right. Older white woman comes to me and says, hey, I'm doing a biopic. on rapper Tila Rock. Wow. And already I'm turning, I'm like, okay, he's, he's trying to scam you.

Like, okay, whatever, biopic. Because I'm like, what is it about Tila Rock that deserves a biopic? Three years later, there's a story in GQ magazine that I didn't know, which basically he went into a coma and because he had no ID or anything on him, think of like Michael Jackson's character on The Simpsons. He winds up in this old folks home in the Bronx. They don't know who he is or he doesn't know who he is knows nothing. I think about in months or so, his family finally locates him.

But he's comfortable with his life at this old folks home. And now they have to explain to him who he was. You were once in a first rapper. That's all very simple attack. Amir too that would happen now. But the headline is the man who forgot he was a rap legend, which is pretty great. Right. I don't know how he got into that coma.

but I do know that he was in a coma and he didn't know who or what he was and he slowly had to be taught everything about himself. But now he just has this new life in as the young guy, as the young stud in a nursing home. Wow. Yeah. And he likes his life there. They say that other residents are mostly elderly Jewish and Yiddish speakers. So that must be fascinating. And like the word about like who's this black guy in our art, our, our, our, our, our, our,

are missed and they're like, well, he was once a rapper on Russell Simmons label. Like that, so it's the craziest story you ever heard, but it's, yeah, I was floored once I've seen it. Now, now I wish I wouldn't dismiss that woman. Like, that movie has to be made. Nah, that's a movie. Sounds great.

Yeah, that's him now. Yeah. It's a crazy movie. Wow. And that's he looks exactly the same, by the way. Yeah, he does. Exactly what he looked like then. How old were you when you did that record? 20? Shit. Maybe 8, maybe 19? I don't know. Yeah, and that was just you on the 808,

and then what did y'all track it on, if you remember? We tracked it. There was a studio that advertised in the Village Voice called PowerPlay in Long Island City, which was the cheapest studio you could go into. And we recorded it. I recorded my punk rock band there before, and then we recorded that, it's yours there.

And we recorded it, you know, in a couple of hours pretty quick. another piece, the reason Jazzy Jay, the reason it's Tila Rock and Jazzy Jay, was, again, as a fan of hip hop, as someone going to the club, the whole idea always of the records that I made were that the energy in the club was a very specific thing, and the records that were coming out didn't sound like what the club sounded like. And as a fan, now, had the records sounded the same, I don't know that I would have ever made a hip hop record at all. Because it was more just, I want to hear this. I want to hear what I'm hearing at the club, but nobody's making that record. So I made it to be able to hear it. But that's all it was. It wasn't, there was no, I had no expectation that anybody else would like it or that it would have any success.

It was never about, you know, you could never assume that in this little world that it was, that we were coming from. It's like, anyone who is making music at that time clearly. did it out of the love of it because it was no upside. Yeah, there was no industry that was built nothing around. There was nothing. What was the fundamental difference between the club and the record? What were you trying to capture? Was it just the volume? I'll tell you. No. Okay, because even on the Acapella version of that record, in my mind, there's a million people in the room do it like, because you're the king of the, oh, oh, like that sort of thing. Like the people. Like the people. in the background.

Yes. How many people were in the room when that those party noise were made? Four or five, five or six of us two times. Maybe three. Was that Ad Rock one of those people? Absolutely. Okay. Okay.

Yeah. Oh, is. Yeah, me, Ad Rock, probably special K, Jazzy J. Who, everybody who was in the same, maybe even the engineer of the session. Like any people we had on hand to get the. that party vibe. So, okay, so let me explain how I heard, what I heard different about the club versus the records.

And I, and a lot of this has to do with me not knowing anything. The way that rap records had been made, and up until that point, those records were made by people who had made other records. So at the time, If you were going to make a club record, it would be like heartbeat. It would be a band. It would be a band record with a woman singing R&B.

That would be the club record. And then when the people who didn't understand hip hop but understood making club records saw this new thing, rap music, they thought, okay, we'll do. the band doing the R&B song, and we'll have the guy rap on it instead of having the girls sing on it. And that's what hip hop records sounded like. But that's not what the club sounded like. The club sounded like DJ culture, drum machines,

maybe not so many drum machines, but some at that point, more DJ culture. It was really about the DJ cutting it up. So if you went to see the Treacher's Three live, it wasn't a band playing their song like it was on even the enjoy records. It was the DJ cutting up the records with the MCs. And that's how I understood hip hop was this homemade music with rapping. And that's why jazz,

why it was important for me, like I would never want to sign, I would never think of doing a Tila rock record without having a DJ associated with it because it's like what made it hip hop was the two of them. It was the band. Together they were the Beatles. But by himself, it was just a singer. It was another singer. You know, it was Frank Sinatra.

It's different. So I saw it as a group. And the music was an important part of, for me, the DJ culture was as important as the MC always. It was always both. So that's, and then I, and Jazzy Jay was my favorite DJ and I asked him if you would be on the record and join the group with Special K. That's how it, that's how it happened. Wow. Was it hard to, because, you know, the stories that I've heard from Russell's reaction to the record was that it was hard to believe that this white boy made such a definitive black album. So how,

how hard was it to convince people that you're the guy that made it's yours? Like was it a hard sell or? The whole thing was so strange. Like it was the record was already a weird record. Yes, Russell always referred to it as more black than anything else. But to me, it was just more representative of the club. You know, it was more like, it was like a documentary of what I experienced going to the club. All right.

So since we're talking about your 808 period, and I guess our listeners, it should be noted that really, I mean, yes, I know that there's a tie between like you and Arthur Baker. That T. La Rock single was like sort of a cross between Def Jam and wasn't start, whatever. Party time. Party time. Wasn't that one of the Arthur Baker's offspring labels as well? The way I could tell you how that happened as well, which. was I was going to put it out independently myself, the way I put out my punk rock records, with 9-9 records, which is a record store, really cool independent record store on the Google Street. That's the ESG's label too, right.

Yeah, ESG, and they put out Bush Tetras and Liquid, Liquid. They put out the record that the message was based on, actually. Yeah, I have those records, yeah. So the guy who ran that record store was sort of my mentor in that he walked me, through the process. He's like, okay, here's a list of studios you could go to. Here's a place you could have the vinyl pressed. Here's a place you could have the labels made. The labels were made in Brooklyn. The vinyl was pressed in, I think, Long Island City. The covers were printed in Canada. And he kind of walked me through. Here's people who could do mastering for you. And he just

walked me through how to do it because I didn't know anything, as I said. So I did that first for my punk rock records and I was about to do that with It's Yours when Jazzy called me because they were making some movie that Arthur Baker was involved in. I don't know what it was. I can't remember what it was. Beat Street. Beat Street. And he said, hey, just met this guy, Arthur Baker. He wants to hear our record. He's got a label. Maybe he can help us. And then I went up and I met Arthur Baker at Shakedown Studio, which is where we ended up doing a lot of work in the future as well, mixing. I think we mixed half of license to Ill there. And MCA from the Beastie Boys, worked there. He worked as a, as like a tape op assistant there. Okay. Assistant engineer. So I went up,

I met Arthur for the first time. And he was already, you know, like a successful person in the music business. And again, I'm still this kid in school. Play him the song. He's like, this is great. His main label was called Streetwise. Streetwise. And he said, and it doesn't really fit streetwise, but we could put it on party time. which is like a sub-label, said fine, and he bought the record to put out. And I said,

the only thing is it has to have the Def Jam logo on it, even though it came out. I did. You drew that logo. You drew that logo. I drew the, yeah,

I did. My aunt Carol worked at Estée Lauder in the Creative Services Department, and I would hang out there a lot, and I used press type, and I made it on a day that either they were closed or, just when nobody was around at one of the designers' tables,

just experimenting with different things. How many drafts? And the reason it has the big DJ was to make that point of like, this is DJ culture. So I thought having the big DJ in the logo quietly told the story of what the label was about. Was that a one take Willie drawing or was that like, okay, on the fifth one, I like this one.

I tried a lot of, I mean, I mean, I tried a lot of things, but it happened pretty quick. It came in a, you know, came in a day. I drew it a bunch of like uppercase, lowercase, what looks good and moving it around and then found it. Do you still have your sketches of it or are they long gone? I don't think so. I probably long gone. I don't, it's possible that they exist because I had a lot of stuff at my parents' house and then some of that stuff is in a storage somewhere, but I've never looked at it. I was going to ask, what does it feel? Because I've heard Amir and Tariq say that sometimes they went on Def Jam just because they wanted to be able to have that logo affiliated with their name. That's got to feel crazy just from a drawing. Yeah. Like, you know, in class, I draw that logo on imaginary roots albums that didn't exist yet.

Like hanging that shit on my wall. I probably did exist. the same thing and then it ended up becoming you know they weren't roots albums but they were whatever it was it was just like playing with what how do we say that what's the name going to be what's it going to look like how does it how does it work in 83 84 how expensive are 808 drum machines uh i don't know something that you casually come across i it's something that i luckily came across because there was a guy in my dorm room who was in a alternative rock band called the speedies and he had that machine and he lent he lent me the 808 drum machine that's how i came across it

so were you able to program and save beats or is it just like you turn it on and you show what you could do and print it yeah uh you could make 20 or so pre-programmed beats so how long is the the conversation with Russell Simmons before you realize that you're going to go into partnership with him and start the label officially. I met Russell at a party for graffiti rock that that TV right. Wow. Yeah. We're Treacherous Three and and Run DMC. Yeah. And I went there, you know, hoping that Treacher's three would be there because they were, you know, my favorite group. And this was like an after party? This was an after party. Okay. And someone introduced me to Russell. And, And I told him, I made, it's yours, and he couldn't believe it.

It's just like, no way. It's like, you're white. You didn't make that record. But you have to understand that were, they really were, well, Tom Silverman was involved in hip hop. He was the only other white person, I would say, that I knew who had any relationship to hip hop at that time. Yeah, but he wasn't making beats.

He was, he was really helpful. He was really helpful to us. Like, he was someone, another, like, I had these great. mentors. I had the guy at 9-9 Records, Ed, Ed Belman, his name was. And I had Tommy, and I would call Tom's just like, hey, what do I do? Monica Lynch, who worked with Tommy. It's like, what do we do? What's the next step? And I can remember his story. I don't think I've ever told anyone's interesting why I was excited about having Russell as a partner. I was walking on in front of the dorm,

across the street from the dorm, turning the corner, I ran into, and I don't even know, this is strange, because I don't know how I knew who he was, but there was a writer for the village voice named Aaron Fuchs. Aaron Fuchs. Wait a minute, he wrote for the village voice.

He was a writer first? He was a writer. Aaron Littino's Fuchs. But listen, let me tell you, let me tell you the story. So again, it's amazing the fact that I even, I don't know how. I knew who he was or how it worked out that I, that I, but I literally went up to him on the street

and said, hey, I made this record and what do I have to do to get people to hear it? Like, how do I do this? And this was, it's yours. I don't even think I had the, I was just more of a conversation. It's like, how does it work? How does this work? So now I'm at the stage where, because I was always comfortable asking questions. You know, I would, if someone had information that I needed, I was, I felt comfortable asking.

Sometimes they would help and sometimes they wouldn't. So I thought he was someone who might be able to help. And I just said, you know, what's the next step? How do I get people to hear this thing? And he said, you need promotion and you can't do it. And he said, the only person who knows how to do promotion for hip hop records is Russell Simmons. And Russell Simmons won't do anything for anyone except his brother run. He works with a lot of artists, but he said, unless you're run,

he won't promote your records. So it's like, okay, I'm thinking maybe someday I'll meet this guy wrestling. At least he'll tell me what he does, even if he won't do it, just in hopes of getting the word out. I got to get to the bottom of the story now. If he was a writer for the village voice, and he too was a, you know, a hopeful record mogul, yet, you know, the story and the fable of Aaron is that he would go. go hard in the paint and suing any product on Def Jam that contains any of the samples that he owned. Yeah. I would say even beyond that is that if he knew any song had the potential to be

sampled, he'd try to buy up the rights so that he could sue whoever sampled it. Well, yeah, that too. But I'm almost feeling like maybe he has a personal beef with Russell that none of us are aware of because there are other samples that he could have went after that he never did. But if it was on Def Jam, it's like, like good fellas, fuck you pay me. And I always wanted to know if that was, if there was like a burnt bridge and it was sort of like, okay, I'm gonna get you.

When he told me about Russell, he was not positive about him. It was not a positive conversation. But it was just this, it was a piece of information that was helpful. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying.

Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the Fourth. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galko,

joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl.

You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield and in this new season of The Girlfriends Oh my God, this is the same man A group of women discover They've all dated the same prolific con artist

I felt like I got hit by a truck I thought how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care So they take matters into their own hands I said, oh hell no I vowed I will be his last target He's gonna get what he deserves Listen to the Girlfriends

Trust me babe on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. There's an article that or a blog that Harry Allen once wrote in honor of your early production methods in which, you know, it's noted that you have the loudest 808 sounds, the loudest scratches, like your scratches on going back to Cali. Like, it's just louder than everything.

So even like, what's your, engineering process or just your whole theory on pushing it to the limit? There is none. I will say, I like, if you're going to put something in there, I want to be able to hear it like I want the idea of having scratching as this sort of background element that's going on all the time is not so interesting to me. It's like if it's going to be there, it should be only exactly when it needs to be there, and it should be crazy loud. Because in some ways, it's like, it's like lead guitar, you know, it's a, it's a punctuation moment. It's not a background sound. And as a rule, I'm not so into background sounds. You know, it's more about having the least

amount of stuff going on, creating space where each thing that you hear, hopefully very few of them, sound as clear and have as much personality as possible. And as soon as you start blanketing sounds, all of each of those sounds gets diminished. And I can hear that in your, I can really hear that in your rock production, particularly on Californication, which is probably my favorite Rick Rubin produced that one.

How cool. But no, I love that record, man. Like, when I first heard it, it was just, I was taken aback by just how the way you track Anthony, vocals like it sounded almost like to the edge of distortion but not quite and it just had that kind of grid on it and it was just really in your face and um I love that record yeah I just wanted to get the calls on that one so you were you were about to tell the rock the bell story I think yeah I'll tell you what I remember but I but I don't remember the Bob James record ever being in the conversation

It may have been something that L had been thinking and wanting to do. Okay, okay. But I don't remember it. I don't remember talking about it. Yeah, I was going to say it's even possible that when it was time to record it, that he suggested it. And it is possible that we were already working on the run DMC, the Peter Piper song. It is possible. Okay.

All right. What was your, one of the, one of the factors that you also used in your early production, was the sound of go-go and rock the bells and then she's crafty and also, you know, I'll say that one of the things I've done

in the quarantine punishment is practically purchased every Go-Go album made available and nothing I hate, and I know a lot of it has to do with either the studios

that they record in, either it's too clean or it's too amateurish, but sardines to me is probably the best Yeah, Sardines is probably the best produced Go-Go record. Probably second to pump me up.

So, first of all, Sardines is such a stripped-down song. How did you record Junkyard Band? Drop the bomb's incredible too. Oh, okay. Yes, I'll say early, early trumple, early trumple funk, yes. They're there up there,

their mixing was immaculent, but what was the process in recording the junkyard band, and why didn't you press on further with them? Okay, let me, I'm going to just talk for a second about, I agree with you, the only, the only GoGo Records I like are old Trouble Funk records, other than Sardines, which I think was good. And I want to talk about that a little bit, because what you're describing is exactly the way I felt about hip hop where you could buy in those days,

the early days of hip hop, I could buy a 12 inch or two every week. That's all that would come out. That would be hip hop. And none of them did for me what the Trouble Funk records did as it relates to Go-Go. Do you know what I'm saying?

Yeah. It's like the hip-hop records were like the bad Go-Go records. It's the same. It's the same in any genre. It's like it's not about. the genre, it's the way the records are made. And in some way, I felt like GoGo was going to be the next hip hop.

I really believe that was going to happen. Yeah. But they didn't make the right records. They sounded, they watered down what GoGo was. Yeah. Like the records on Island, Island signed all the bands, and those records are terrible. Do you think that's because it's kind of designed for it to be a live situation? more than a record at the end of the day, like a studio album?

I just think the wrong people were helping make the music. The wrong people were involved on the recording side. Yes. I don't like how half the Google Records are engineered. I mean, I love rare essence more than any band on earth. But it just frustrates me that the energy and the engineering of when I hear, hear them live or even I hear like some of their live mixtapes, that's not captured on a studio cut for me. On the studio side, yeah. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. And so why was Sardines and the

word just a one-off 12-inch? Was there ever a conversation about recording Junkyard as a band or I mean, not as a band as a full album? I don't I don't really remember. And I think not long after I ended up leaving Def Jam. So it may have been that it was just like towards the end of the time that I was doing stuff with Def Jam and then just stopped. But I don't remember there being, first of all, nobody particularly cared about it.

Like we liked it, but it's not like there was any demand for the Junkyard Band, as crazy as that sounds. I loved them. I was told to ask you about the making of Crush Groove, the song. What? Tell me the story of the making of crush groove the song. What's, I was thinking about, it's funny that this has been, I couldn't, I didn't remember what song that was. I had a memory that we did a song with Run DMC and other artists. And I remember the conversation in the studio because it was heated.

And particularly on my, on, as it related to me, like I was very unhappy with what was going on. And I thought it, for some reason, I thought it was a Christmas song, but have come to realize it's actually that crush groove song. And I could never find it anywhere because it's listed as the Crush Groove All Stars. All Stars, yeah. So it's not like if you're looking back at Run DMC songs, that comes up. Right. So I haven't heard it in a long time, but I had this vague memory. It's like, we did this song. And I remember there was a little bit of an argument in the studio. And what the argument was, if you listen to the track, should we play it? Because it'll, it'll, or at least play some of it.

You want to play a little bit about it? The track, who are the, who are the other artists on it? Do you remember? The fat boys, Sheila E. Curtis Blow. Okay. The movie people wanted a song for the movie. They got the fat boys, Sheila E, and Curtis Blow on this track that sounded like a track that would fit on maybe any one of the three of their albums.

Maybe Shillah E. Less. But it sounded most like a Fat Boy's record. Yeah, it sounded like a Fat Boy Curtis Blow record. It sounded like a Fat Boy Curtis Blow record. So when we got to the studio, okay, do you want to play it? I think I was five when this came out. I love this fucking song. Okay, so when we got to the studio, the mission was,

we're doing this song for the movie. They provided us this song, the other MC's ready on it, and now I'm there as Run DMC's producer, and they're supposed to get on this track. And it sounded only like the beginning of the song. It didn't sound like the Run DMC part. Right.

And I said, there's no way Run DMC could be on this. They cannot be on this. It's like, this sounds like a Fat Boys record. This sounds like a Curtis Blow record. That's not a Run DMC record. I love Run DMC. This is something else. And then I said, well, the only way we could have run DMC on this would be if we make our own track and drop it in in the middle where it could sound like this is a run DMC song.

And that's how that ended. And I was the only one who cared. Nobody else cared. You know, it would have just been like. Larry and Curtis weren't offended. I don't know. I didn't even know who produced it. I don't know who produced.

Yeah, I didn't know that. I do remember Curtis was pissed off after saying, how come I can't be over the part that runs on? Like how come he couldn't? Right. Oh, wow. Yeah. The breakdown.

Can you talk about, you know, there's producer as as song clinician and arranger and music person. And there's something about producer as social psychologist. And I feel like your life and correct me if I'm wrong is sort of this. weird thing that rides in between them and the great producers that I know run this line that I don't fully understand how to run. And I feel like you've mastered it and in your career have sort of defined what a producer is. And so there are some producers that are beatmakers. There are some producers that are songwriters. You're able to encompass all of them and not only

in one particular genre, but in about four or five. So like, I don't know. I mean, you call yourself a reducer and I get that sort of play on words but like I don't know what is it what is it about all of that that makes it work that makes that makes you enjoy what you do as well because that to me is fascinating uh I'll say that I think it always changes at the time that I was more of a beat making producer which are the days we're talking about now I was not I was not good at the psychology part and the collaborating I was not good I was much more of a I know what's good and you're going to do it my way probably for my hip-hop early hip-hop days. And then as I started working with more rock bands, I started understanding more the dynamics of

working with a group of people. And now the most interesting thing for me when I work with an artist is I can clearly point out where I think the strengths and weaknesses are, but I don't feel like it's my responsibility to solve the weaknesses. All I have to do is point out, like, hmm, this section here isn't as good as it could be. What can we do to make it better? Whereas in the old days, I'd say, this section isn't as good and this is what we're going to do. Now it's this part isn't as good. How do you guys suggest we fix it? And all of that is subjective. It's all based on your opinion, right? I mean, like, it's all how you're feeling. All it is is opinion. Everything, everything has to do with opinion. It's everything. It's everything.

The whole job, the whole job of doing this is pure opinion. Yeah. Yeah. That's so. So. Okay. So before, before I get to the Beastie Boys, well, unpaid bill sort of. Sorry, I didn't mean to divert, but I was fascinated.

Actually, my next question leads to what you were headed with unpaid bill, which is basically, whenever you show up and whenever you show up in the credits, two things are bound to happen. And that is you're going to reduce the sound. So we already talked about the idea of you stripping stuff down to just its bare bones and making it loud. But it's also you really introduced the idea of cross genres in modern hip hop music. I mean, with with Run DMC having their biggest hit with Walk This Way, even with the Beastie Boys, at least in their narrative of it,

like we were making fun of smoking in the boys' rooms. And now here we go, would fight for your right to party. But even with Johnny Cash doing hurt or even with Mick Jagger singing over impeach the president, even with the stuff with Slayer or working with Neil Diamond,

like there's always an element or Kanye rhyming over industrial, There seems to be a common denominator of you pushing artists. I don't, willing or unwillingly. I mean, Kanye seems like the type of person that's like, let's go to the edge of it. Let's do something different. Whereas like Run DMC was legendary for not liking or wanting to do walk this way,

the way that you wanted them to do it. So how much hold handing and Jedi mind tricks and psychology? It's all psychology, it seems like. Yeah, how much of that is a nightmare for you when you just want to make the damn song and leave? My whole relationship to it has changed over the years. So in the case of RundDMC, then it was frustrating and I didn't have the tools to deal with it.

But luckily, Russell called, run and said, just do whatever Rick says. It's like Rick knows what he does. doing just do what rick says so had that not happened they wouldn't have they wouldn't have been on the record that record wouldn't have happened so it that's how that happened and even after rock box and king of rock they don't know that they're on a winning formula just like one one moment away from super jackpot well this had less to do with it being a rock song it had more to do with singing someone else's words and singing someone else's,

which they had never done before, and singing someone else's words that they didn't necessarily like. How long did that process take, walk this way, I'm talking? Same as everything. You know, same as everything else. The only thing that was different

was because Steve and Joe appeared on the record. There was an extra day working on it with those guys playing guitar and singing vocals, the guys from Marosmith. With the Beastie Boys, well, first of all,

I want to know who introduced, I have so many questions. Number one, the Beastie Groove, Rock Hard, 12 inch. Who were the Latin rascals? Because I've always, I've seen their names in like all these 12 inches from 80, 983 to 85 and then poof, nothing. Who were the Latin rascals? The Latin rascals were two club DJs who worked at Shakedown, Arthur Baker's studio,

who invented, this is pre-sampler. There were no samplers yet. And they invented a way, it was their own style of doing remixes where they would do these edits on half-inch tape where they would repeat the same like, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. On through editing.

So it was like it wasn't scratch. There was no sampling yet. And there was this other way of manipulating the music. Yeah. And the Latin rascals invented it. And they did it on all of Arthur's records. And they did a lot of club remixes. And I can't remember what they did on that.

I don't remember them doing anything on those, but it's possible. On this party's getting rough, that little... See, Philadelphia, where I come from, has a very different relationship with this party's getting rough and hold it now hit it you know because lady b and her street b show that came on a power 99 between like 12 and 5 p.m. on sundays they made uh they basically made a an edit where they would play that middle sketch of this party's getting rough where it's like oh man you just fess it man you you you fucking you even turn up the boombox and all that stuff all the all the all that chaos in the middle and then they attach i don't really remember it i don't

really remember man yeah this is this like the philly anthem so they made they kind of made an edit philly made an edit of their own of this party's getting rough and the beastie groove and just between latin rascals and mantronics just the the the idea of like multiple sampling or like those crazy edits, that's all we heard. But what's even weirder for Hold It Now Hit It, because of a pressing mistake, the initial Def Jam pressings of Holden Now Hit It, have the Acapella as Side One. Yes, had the Acapella as Side One and the DMX drum machine version that's on the album as Side 2. We never heard of the drum machine version in Philly ever.

So when they're playing Hold It Now Hit It, there's no such thing as an acapella, or you jokingly called it Acapulco version. Yeah. And we thought, yo, dude, it was such, it was the most radical shit we ever heard. Because our thing was like, the only way I can describe it is if you ever seen Pouti Tang and when Chris Rock asked the DJ introduces that song of Scytie. Like, and now this new song. Yeah. I remember a lot of Rick saw Pouti Tate.

Pouti too good. I'm just saying he's friends with Chris Rock. I don't know. Anyway, the whole point was that we made up in our minds like, yo, these dudes are so incredible. They don't even need music. And Holden out hit it.

The a cappella was number one on the Power 9 at 9 for months. To the point where when we got the album and heard that drum, now it's weird because in Florida, every one from down south I know, even Premier tells this story. Like when you're getting your car system, the song that you tested to see if you're,

if your car system was right. It was holding now hit it because you like, you mix your joints loud as fuck. When we got that in Philly, we didn't know what the, like, yo, what's this drum shit? Like, this ain't on the album. To this day, I will never acknowledge the album version of holding out hit.

I will only DJ the Acapella version. But even- I'd love to hear, I've never heard the Acapella version. I'd love to hear it. I don't remember ever hearing it. I bet it's great. Probably better. That's crazy.

It's your label. Your production. It's the first Acapella in history. Acapulco. I love that. Acapulco. Yeah, there's the first Acapulco in history. In working their album, like, how involved are you with the marketing?

And because I'll be honest with you, we, for two years, from 85 till we purchased the album and saw the gatefold cover, I didn't know the Beastie Boys were white. We thought they were Puerto Rican, in Philly at least. So was that by design to like not put them on the album cover and just to, just a. ride it out till not at all it the way we did it we didn't we never even thought about it on the the seven original deaf jam singles the maroon label singles of which uh where rock hard was one of those i think that's the only bc record that was in those seven yeah there was an l there was that there was uh hollis crew hollis crew jimmy spicer jimmy spicer this is it joel uh i'm a girl watcher what papa and Papa San.

I don't think that was on Maroon. Oh, okay. Well, there was also MCA and Bazoudi. Yeah, yeah. Bazzuti. Bizzuti is an engineer in New York named Jay Burnett, and he was the guy who turned me onto the studio that we lovingly renamed Chung King.

The original, the original Chung King. The original Chung King. Wow. Yeah. And the reason I called it Chung King was I didn't want anyone to know that it was such a terrible place that we were working in. So I made up chunking House of Metal was like a just like a, the one before that.

The one on, it was on. It's the Verick one. No, it's before the Verick one. Before the Verick one. It was on, was it church between broom and grand,

something like that? Across from the, there's that police building, you know, the police building. It was on that block, five floor walk up, the rest of the building were like sweat shops.

It was a really weird place. It was really, again, I didn't know this because I wasn't into it, but it was just a drug dealing place. They just had a studio, but it was mainly drug dealing, but I didn't know that because I was kids in school. Steve, yes. You know, speaking of which, no, I didn't mean that. I was just, I'm reminiscing.

I think I was at that place dropping off tapes as an intern. Yeah, the first place, yeah. I was only there once, so. But we recorded, we recorded all of the BC boys stuff there. We recorded Raising Hill there. Recorded a lot of the early Def Jam stuff there. Maybe all of it.

Maybe all of it. I was going to say, Steve, that DMX drum machine that's hanging in our studio. Yeah. That's Ricks. Yeah, I know. I know this is all. Tell the world, but, you know, I mean, I'm the one person who knows that in this room. Oh, okay.

Is that a stolen or is that a bar? We, no, is it, we, you know what, we had to re-record. I can't write left-handed with John Legend. And we were running out of studios. And it just so happens that that was open. And when we got there, we were told, this is our last day. And kind of, you know, I was like doing my fan boys thing, like, oh, my God, this is the old Chon King and no, no, no, no, no.

And whoever the owner was a guy, he's like, just like on some Mingo Green, here, kid, catch. He, um, wow. He showed me this, he's, this DMX and he says, created, you know, all the Def Jam days, he's been here forever. You know, you'll take care of this.

And I took it. Sorry, right. Anyway. I'll say that may, that may or may not be true. Well, I'm sure for Rick Ruvvett. I'm sure there's multiple

DMX drum scenes, but I prefer my version of it. Was the just the floodgate of license to ill? Was that scary to you or overwhelming at the time? And how are you guys treated by Columbia Records by this point?

We were never treated well by anybody. Even when selling 12 million units? Yes. Even then. Man. Really? Why? So you were still root off the red nose, the rain?

I mean, was this, was this Yetnikov period? Was this Metola period? Like, where was? Yetnikov and Al-Teller. Those were the people that. Al-Teller from MCA was at Columbia first? He was the president of Columbia at the time that we were there. Damn.

The only person that I ever really dealt with on a regular basis was Jeff Jones. who's a great guy. He was a product manager, and he now runs Apple Records for the Beatles based in London. And he's still around, and he remembers, like, he told me stories of things that happened back then that I didn't remember, but it was funny. Like, like, with license to ill, he said he goes into a meeting. He's like, well, Rick Rubin says we can't put a barcode on the outside of the cover. And, you know, we have to figure out how we're going to do this because we've never done this before. and the people in the meeting are like, who the fuck is Rick Rubin? What do you mean?

It's like, we do this all. We're doing this. Of course it's going to have a barcode. It's like, no, but Rick won't let us have the barcode. He's like he's insistent. So again, I had no memory of that. But we would fight for the art to get the art the way we want it all the time.

And people just didn't know what it was. You know, I was to say there's very little understanding of what it was that we were doing. Who conceptualized the album cover for Licensed to Ill? That was me. And what was your... I'll tell you. I had just read the Led Zeppelin book, Hammer the Gods,

about them being on tour and all the debauchery of crazy rock stardom. And there were images of Led Zeppelin's airplane in the book. And it just seemed like, wow, that's just like the height of decadence, an airplane with this crazy rock and roll lifestyle. going on and I thought oh it would be interesting to have a Beastie boy a Beastie Boy airplane representing this sort of crazy debauchery all made up you know none of this was true we were kids we were kids in school you know this was uh none of this was accurate this was a fantasy based on loving loving Led Zeppelin it was the fantasy of well what about a Beastie Boys jumbo jet

that rams into a mountain. Like that's like the way the story ends is the, it goes with this crazy rock and roll lifestyle. And I thought, well, because it would be a gatefold, it'd be like you'd see the front of it and you'd think it was, you'd just think it was an airplane. And then you'd open it up and you'd get the reveal of the back. And then, yeah,

and then when I would drive from my parents' house on Long Island into the city, I would always pass the globe. from the that's in the centerfold. And I was thought, oh, it'd be great. Like someday, that would be a great thing to use in a photograph. And then the opportunity was with the Beastie Boys, the inner sleeve. Has anyone ever, you know, it's weird. When I seen it, I remember getting the album, like Thanksgiving of 86.

So I would like to think that, I think the album came out in November of 86, like late November. but this happened the album cover occurred like nine months after the space settle challenge thing challenge the challenge is joint which like

traumatized the shit out of me yeah I wasn't that in kindergarten yo yeah and like so was I so to buy that album and see that crash like just traumatize me even more so it's weird like I have this love

this love relationship with with the album because it's so, you know, monumental, but it's like, ah, the nights I just looked at that album cover, like, ah, it's killing me. I didn't know about the crash. And I didn't, I'll tell you now, I knew it at the time, but I didn't know enough to be able to get it the way I really wanted it. But it never was the way I really wanted it,

which was I wanted to look more really like a photograph. And instead it looks more like a Mad Magazine cover, cartoon like it it's more cartoony looking than i would have liked it to be i would have liked it to be like photorealist who's will be oms the the the artist that drew it was he a friend of yours or no no he was a friend of um the guy who was our art director at the label steve byram was his name and i would just say hey this is the vision for the cover how do we get this made and then he had his friend he commissioned it But which is why it didn't come out the way I wanted to come out.

You know, it's like, uh, so you've seen it were disappointed. Yeah, I, I said, this isn't real. It's like the image is right, but the way it was done was not right. It felt more like a cartoon, but it was like, well, the, you know, the album's coming out and we have no time. It's like, okay. And they eat me. That was not, that was, uh, creative license.

Yeah, they did that. I didn't, that was not my idea. So what did you think about Eminem's arm, I asked to it, but then I forgot. You produced that. Did you talk him and do it or did he say I wanted to do it? Eminem's album. Not the music to be murdered by. It was the one before that one.

It was the recovery. I have to pull up. No, it wasn't recovery. It just came out like a year or two ago. Oh. I'm looking right now. I don't think I produced that.

Wait, which would see you to my question, which is Rick, how do you pick your projects? Just based on liking, like, either liking the music or liking the artist or one or the other. Kamikaze. Sorry.

Kamakazi, that was it, yeah. I didn't produce that. Oh, I thought you produced the last. Not kamikaze. Yikes. Okay. I stand corrected. Well, Kamikaze pays tribute to license to ill.

Oh, cool. Yeah, as an album cover. Just on the back of Bill's question, Rick, how come you only did one? I noticed you only did the Andrew Dice Clay album. Like, that was your only comedian that you work with? Well, we did, I think we did five. five anderdice clay albums.

Right, right. And I always looked for other comedians to work with, but never found, at one point I was interested in recording Carlos Mencia. I don't know. Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah. And I think we like started talking about it,

maybe even recorded a little bit, but it just never, never came together for whatever reason. Yeah. Have you gotten any more requests, though, comedian-wise? Well, I love Gerard. I think he's incredible. I never thought about him doing an album, but that's a really interesting idea.

Okay. He wants it. I'm sorry, I'm here. How long did you have to bug public until Chuck finally relented and signed to the label? It was a really long time. It was a long time. I want to say it felt like forever then,

but it was probably nine months, maybe a year. But when you're 20 years old, a year is forever. No, that's a long time. And they were, I had a post-it note of Chuck's number next to my phone. And any time I would walk by the phone, I'd see it, and I would call. And then Bill Stephanie, who was our first employee at Def Jam, he knew Chuck.

And at one point I got so frustrated, I said, you have to tell Chuck, if he doesn't sign to Def Jam, I'm firing you. Like, you have to convince him. He has to do this. And it's not like he wanted to sign to someone else. He didn't want to make records. That was the thing. Like he was retired. He thought he was too old.

How did you feel about the Bomb Squad's production methods? Because that's the total opposite of your reduction approach. Loved it. I like different things. You know, I'm not, I like all kinds of different things. I actually heard something on your, on your James Brown recent DJ set. Right. Maybe it was night two.

if I remember correctly, for the first time I heard what I think was the inspiration for the bomb squad that I'd never heard before. Wow. I'll find it and send it to you just so you have for your own reference. I think you put the pieces of a puzzle together for me that I never knew were there. Impressive. You know, during this period, at least between 86 and 89,

I mean, between your work with LL, and I am curious as to why you did not produce a bigger endeavor. And I always wanted to know how you felt about like the L.A. Posse and I need love and all that stuff. But you're doing these Slayer records and not to mention like, I mean, your heart met like how, what is your approach to, are you just leading from the gut or do you have like a mapped out plan that you're explaining to the group? this is the vision I have for you. Like, how do you work with Slayer? Just going into the studio and first going into pre-production, talking about the parts in the songs,

helping make them as good as they could be, and then figuring out how to, in their case, it was interesting because they already were popular, a popular underground band. Like the night I saw them, they sold out the Ritz, which was pretty substantial place. I saw them at the Ritz,

blew my mind. It's like, I like heavy, music. I never heard of these guys before. And this was one of the craziest heaviest concerts I've ever seen in my life. How is this? It's like a parallel universe that this exists. And I talked to them that night after the show and then ended up flying out and meeting them in California after that. Who was their drummer? Because I've never heard someone. I've never heard someone play double kick that intense. And you know, not only is it intense. it's funky.

He's the only of all the heavy metal drummers I've ever heard who play in that double kick drum style. He's the only one where it's groovy. Maybe him and Lars? You know who else? Lars Ulrich. Isn't that Lars Alrick's thing though? That's not what Lars does.

Okay. That's not what Lars does. No. Lois is not groovy. Lars does something else. Lars is more like a Prague, a fast Prague rock drummer. So some kid at school, puts me on, you know, by the time I get an Aeon of Millions, some kid puts me on to rain and blood.

And then, uh, plays, uh, yeah, yeah. She, you know, when I was listening, she watched Channel Zill and they're like, well, you know, that's, that's a Slayer song and played me in the original join. And then like, like, I started buying the records just as a completest. But yeah, trying to play that shit. Because there was like a, a hard rock band that I joined like in high school for like four months, but I quit because, like, I can't do double foot action that good. But it's like, how did you capture those performances? Like, are there jam sessions? Are they like, guys, here's a chorus.

Or is it just like, okay, open the E, open knee minor, just balls to the wall. Go. No, no, no, no, no. They wrote the songs. I came in. I said, maybe this part's too long. Maybe this part's too short. Maybe we need another part here.

But very, it's all them. It's all them. And Slayer were unbelievable. And then it was just properly recording them in a way not to screw it up. And here was a big breakthrough, sonic breakthrough in my mind, was the only records you could hear that were that approach that speed at that time would be like Metallica's first record. I think that's all that was out. I don't even think their second record was out yet. But Metallica, those.

records were recorded like a traditional rock band, which again, like it goes back to the hip hop argument in the beginning. It's like nobody's looking at the thing for what it is to make it the best version of what it is. People are looking at, okay, well, on rock records, we use big drum sounds with long, with long, um, reverbs. Yeah, long reverbs and long room sounds. And that's what makes them sound big. But if you're playing fast, and if you do that, it's just a blur.

You don't hear anything. It's just, exactly. So I'm looking at, okay, this band's incredible, and they play tight and fast. And the key is how do we get it to sound like like you're listening to them with a magnifying glass,

not how do you blend it together into an impressionist painting? So in the case of Slayer, it was, okay, how do we make the drum sounds super tight, super tiny? Because the speed of the drums, the only way you're going to even be able to hear it is if they're basically taps, you know, like tiny little taps. So really a lot of it has to do with, in each of these cases of the things that I've, on the records where I've worked on where they sound different than the records that came before them, it was only looking at them for what they are and figuring out, how do we make this thing sound good? Not how do we use the baggage of the past.

How do we apply old methods to this? It's how do we what's right for what this is? So how do you know the difference between what to give a slayer as opposed to like the word that you did with the cult? as far as rock sounds are concerned. Now, I know, you know, like, how much research do you have to put into the acts that you work with to know what their strengths and their weaknesses are? I put no research in whatsoever,

but the research that I do is as a fan all the time, listening to music all the time, and I listen, and then based on what I'm hearing, I'll make suggestions, just based on, whatever little bit that I've picked up from listening to music

my whole life. We should probably be asking LL this, but since you were there to help make the track, what exactly went between LL and Kulmodee that made him make

Jack the Ripper? Do you remember? I don't know that anything happened. I think it might have just been that I mean, did you realize that you were making a Kulmode disc record?

Nope. And one of the first disc records. Never thought about it. That was your boy from back in the day. Yeah, I was going to say, loved them.

You, you also. I never thought about it that way at all. And it kind of goes back to your go-go love too because it was the Chuck Brown sample. The soul's a sample.

Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. I forgot. I forgot that Ashley George's clip is Yeah. Chuck Brown. It's not just the painting full break. Yeah.

How, how, what was your experience like shooting tougher than leather? Terrible experience. You directed, yeah, I was going to say, okay, I'm a first time director. What, what, what, what advice can you give me? I mean, sorry, my movie's already done, so, you know, okay. I was going to say, if you have an opportunity not to do it, don't do it. Yeah, leave. Wow.

Okay, so tell me about your experience in directing tougher than leather. Well, where I didn't know what I was doing in the recording studio, it was easy because there were so few people there. And the stakes were low. And on a movie set, there are many more people. And the schedule is like, hey, I'm going to be an hour late to the studio today. Talk to you guys later. No problem.

Movie sets not like that. It's like everything was. And, yeah. And we were, our whole lives were, you know, I slept until, I never took a class before three in the afternoon when I went to NYU because I slept until probably one. And then we went out all night, every night. So the idea of showing up on a movie set at six o'clock in the morning every day, that wasn't anything that I anticipated. And that was not a, it was not a realistic ask in the way my life works. So it was a terrible experience

and I wouldn't wish it on my enemy. Did you insist on directing that movie or was it like you had an upcoming April to do it or something like how did you wind up holding the director's manual? Me and my friend Rick

wrote the idea. It was Rick was really more the writer than I. We would throw ideas together but Rick was the main writer Rick Minello and who was the guy who ran the death. at my dorm. So he'd be the night. He would work at the dorm from midnight to six. He was the night watchman essentially. And the dorm was pretty quiet from midnight to six. So I would usually get home from the club, two, three. And I would sit there with Rick and we would order food from

cozy soup and burger around the corner. And we would watch old movies on TV. And he was a film major and film historian, knew a tremendous amount. And then in later years, ended up, you know, working with Darren Aronofsky and James Gray, some great directors. And all of my friends who were directors would always, anytime anyone I knew who made movies had a movie question, they would all call Rick Minello because he knew more than everybody. That Rick Manello was the main scriptwriter.

He's in it, too. I can't remember what his character. He was played sort of the sidekick guy to my guy. I can't remember his character's name. I can't remember. I really blocked out a lot about that movie, actually.

He was also in the Beastie Boys video for No Sleep Till Brooklyn. He was like the club. You know, in the beginning, there was like a skit with a... Yeah. That's Rick Minello. So he wrote...

He's been in a few depth gym products. Yes, and he directed going back to Cali as well. Oh. The video of going back to Cali, which we storyboarded together at the desk at Weinstein, the dormitory at NYU. So something I don't know, I don't know if you ever went on record.

I never knew how or why you left FJAM. I just remember your name being on the executive producer for a nation of millions. And then when I looked for your name on Fear of a Black Planned, planet, you weren't there anymore. And then I, next day, I heard of you, you had a funeral for the word deaf. So what, I mean, why did you decide to leave your, your first love? It really had to, there were two things going on.

One was over the time together, however many years it was, three, four, five years. My relationship with Russell was starting to, I wouldn't say it ever turned, bad because we were always good friends, but it felt like our, what we wanted was changing. And I felt like I really loved our friendship and didn't want our friendship to end. And I thought if we remained partners, our friendship's probably going to end. So maybe it's better just not to be partners anymore. And then there was something going on that really triggered it had to do with the way we were being treated by Columbia.

and what we needed Columbia to do to fix the situation for our artists. For example, I remember the first time we went to England and the guy at Columbia basically told us, you know, we're just not interested in your records. They said, we look at Columbia Records in New York as an albatross, and it's nothing against you personally, but because you come from them, we're just not really interested. even though you're making money yeah i mean 87 you guys are sold more units than michael jackson's

bed yeah and yeah it was unbelievable i i had a meeting with al teller at the time who was the president of the company and told him all of my concerns and i talked for a half hour and i got really emotional i started crying because again i care so much about this shit it's my whole life and um and at the end of the conversation, I say, you know, we got to, we have to figure out a way to fix this because if not, I have to leave. Like, I can't, I can't keep doing this. I can't put my heart into this and have partners who don't care or who are not going as hard as they can, as hard as we're going. I can't do this. And, um, and this is after a half hour of my, I remember I had a pad and I listed all the things that were wrong in the relationship, whatever, uh, if I would have

known that they put the wrong A side on the record. That's an example of what would have been on the list. Yeah. It's like, but that was indicative of what it was like. It was like nobody really cared. These guys do this shit that we don't understand. And luckily it sells, but we don't know what it is and we don't really care what it is.

We just don't want it to stop. But they always had a one-on-one with Yetnikov or you never had a one-on-one with Ayan or Mottola? None of those guys? Einer wasn't there. Mottola wasn't there yet. It was, so the guy, Al Teller was the president of the company. Right.

Matola was his boss, but he wasn't really involved in what the day-to-day of Columbia Records. So I had this meeting with the guy, the right person to have the meeting with. I have this meeting. I have a heartfelt emotional. He's sitting there holding a baseball bat through the meeting. What? Yeah, he saw himself as kind of like tough.

So he's sitting there holding this baseball. all about, I'm talking 20 minutes, 25 minutes. I'm crying at the end and telling them finally that if we can't work this stuff out, we can't get to the bottom of this. I got to leave. And I said, you know, I never signed a contract. Russell signed the contract. I never signed anything. So I'm going to have to leave. And he said, wait a minute, wait a minute. What did you just say? And I said, I never, yeah, I said, I never signed a contract. You know, only Russell signed. And he said, okay, wait a minute. You're going to have to start back at the beginning. because I wasn't listening to anything you were saying.

Oh, I wish that had my sound effect would be. This is really, this is real. So how long until Deaf American is started? Right away, because when I left Def Jam, I had already started, like Slayer was signed to Def Jam originally. Danzig was signed to Def Jam originally. And Dice, I can't remember if Dice was, if I had already signed dice or not,

when I remember going out to lunch with Russell and saying, you know, this isn't going to work. I don't, the relationship with Columbia is bad. And, oh, so what that meeting that I told you about that start at the beginning again meeting, when that meeting, after that meeting, I told Russell, you know, this is not good. We can't do this anymore.

And the way that Columbia ended up fixing it was to write a big check to death jam. without dealing with any of the problems, it was just a check. And Russell was cool with that, and I was not cool with that. So that was sort of the, you know what, I don't think we can do this anymore. Like, this doesn't feel right. And I said to him, I said, do you want to leave the company? And he said, I don't want to leave.

And I said, okay, I guess I have to leave. And it was just like that. It wasn't even, I thought he might leave. And that's it. Yeah. Yikes. Because you left before, well, you left. after the Beasties left, correct?

I left after the Beasties left. Yeah. Yeah. How did you and like at Rock or any of them? Did y'all have conversations about why you both left or whatever? Interesting. Interestingly, we have never really discussed it. And it's definitely an elephant in the room that would be good to discuss.

And we just never did. But I'm sure it'll happen. It may happen next week. Like, it'll happen. What were your thoughts on? Paul's boutique. Loved it. I remember listening to it at the Mondrian Hotel, me and Chuck D.

Together, we were there because I think public enemy was going to appear somewhere in California. I don't know whether it was a club date or a TV show. But we're at the Mondrian. We got an advance. I don't even know if it was an advance. It might have just been like from the studio, like they had just finished it. And me and Chuck listened to it.

And we both thought, oh my God, this is the greatest thing we've ever heard. This is the future of hip-hop. Like this is it doesn't get better than this and we were shocked that it it was not as well received as we thought it deserved to be Thing that I remembered the most at least at your first year of deaf American was all the press that you got as far as the ghetto boys were concerned How did they come how did they come across your radar and? What was it about them that drew you to them and and all the ensuing controversy that came with them. Yeah, I had never heard, like NWA was already happening. Well, maybe just the EZE album.

I don't know if there was an NWA album yet. There was an EZE album for sure. And I loved Easy E. And then I heard the ghetto boys, and I felt like, oh, like where NWA was gangster, this is like hard in that way, but more like more unhinged, more like horror.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like violent, but not violent like a bad drug deal gone wrong. Like violent like a horror movie, you know, like dismemberment, crazy. And I just liked how extreme it was. It spoke to me right away. And I thought that the album,

It didn't sound as good as it could have. So I remixed the album. I didn't add anything to it. I just basically remix the album and change the cover and change the name because they were called the ghetto boys G-A-H-E-T-O. Yeah. And I thought, you know, it sounds too ordinary. Like they could be the ghetto boys,

but it should be the G-E-T-O boys, just because it, I don't know, I just thought it was more interesting. It would look better on T-shirts. as well. Okay, so how much of, I mean, now it's like, especially in the environment that we're in right now, as far as like, uh, right wing Republican, uh, Christian news talking points and those things. Like, you know, now it's sort of like you collectively roll your eyes or that you know, like that side of the fence is lying.

but back in 1989, 90, like, they, it just seemed like rural threats. And I remember, I knew the ghetto boys because one, Chuck G. Chuck D. Shaddled them out on fear of a black planet, planet album. But all the controversy of Scarface's lyrics being talking points for everybody running for, Senate, any Republican running for Senate or the House using this thing, like to this, was this manor from heaven? Like, for you is I had no controversy and bad news like, yes, this is what I'm, I want to be the, your parents' worst nightmare. This is the first I'm ever hearing of that being the case. What? You read, no, Ted White, Ted White, I think who ran billboard. Oh, man,

he wrote like paragraphs and dissertation, a mind of a lunatic. I would have never ever, like the surefire way to get a 17, 18 year old to buy the shit is because Ted White could not, a billboard could not stop writing about how violent Scarface's mind of a lunatic was. And this needs to be banned. And shit, I was like, word, I'm going to buy this shit. Yeah. Plamma. Parents hated. It must be good.

Yeah. I always like crazy shit. You know, I like edgy, crazy shit. It's interesting to me. It's fun. But you do realize, like, being parents' worst nightmare is also, like, that's marketing. That's a record exec's candy.

Like, that's, that's, so that never excited you at all? No, I never thought about it. Because usually I would have to get the calls more like the record company not wanting to put it out. You know, that's what I had to deal with. Like Slayer, Columbia Records refused to. put out that Slayer record. So then I had to find a new way to release it, even though the first one was on Def Jam, but it wasn't through Columbia because they refused to release it. Then I made a deal

with Geffen records, which is where that went. And then in my deal with Geffen, I had to have complete creative control where they could never come to me and say, they're not going to put something out. And then when it came to Andrew Dice Clay or the ghetto boys, you're like, well, we're not going to put it out. It's like, well, the whole reason I'm at your company is because I know. need a safe place to put out crazy shit. That's why I'm here. This is what I do. And you'll see when you look back on it in time, it'll be the right decision.

It'll be like you're too close to the story now. But if you look back in history, important things often stick out like soft thumbs in their day and are hated or vilified or they burned Beatles albums, you know? Yeah. Man. Elvis was the, you know, the devil. What was it about the black crows that excited you to sign them to the label? Did you sign all the acts that were, at least on the first run of Deaf American to the label?

Or was it like, did you have a full staff and, you know? I didn't have a full staff, but there was my friend who I went to school with named George Triculius, who I think is. Who's been called out on a Beastie record, maybe. Well, he's also been my boss. The few movies that I scored, uh, George. If you're clearing music in movies, George Oculeyx is that, that's your guy that you work with. Okay, great. So George was, he was an intern.

It's funny. I was an intern at Def Jam when I owned Def Jam at NYU. And the reason I was an intern was because then I got school credit for working at Def Jam. Gotcha. George was, George was my intern at Def Jam where he was. got credit in the dorm and then there was a time when he was my roommate in the dorm if I remember correctly um and George he found the black crows and that was his both his signing and his production that was his vision and the Jayhawks as well he signed the Jayhawks and never told me that wow I didn't

know that 100% hey wait all these old Def Jam questions are coming back to me now um the the the the storyline to crust groove, how much of that was actual life? I'm trying to get to the kind of uncut jims robbing Peter to pay Paul narrative of like, did you guys ever have like that's the storyline of having to borrow money to press up 12 inches or to keep up with all made up demand. That's Hollywood. Hollywood fakery. That's none of that was true.

Okay. Just checking, just checking. Yeah. So outside of Deaf American recordings, can you talk about your work with Johnny Cash and how you got him back to his glory point? Because, I mean, I would imagine before you two worked together, he was sort of waning in the creative department, at least like with the last four records that he worked on with you,

That was like probably one of the best story comebacks in a music career. What was it like working with him? A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

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Coolest thing, coolest thing that ever happened in my life. He was a beautiful, brilliant, humble, interesting, quiet guy who studied history. He had a tremendous amount of wisdom that he didn't offer. unless you drew him out. He was pretty reserved. But if you asked him about stuff, he would tell you about it. And he knew a lot about a lot of things and a tremendous amount about music and the history of country music and folk music.

And I learned a tremendous amount being around him. Did you get a chance to personally know him? Was he telling you stories of recording for son and that whole million-dollar session thing and everything you ever wanted to know? I got to know him personally well. He would stay at my house when he came to L.A. I would stay at his house if I went to Nashville. I don't know how much we talked about old times

unless there was a specific reason to her if I had a particular interest. He would tell me stories about Sam Phillips, though. Okay. Oh, wow. He loved Sam Phillips. Which artist opens up to you the most as far as, I don't,

don't know if you have the same relationship with, say, a Jay-Z that you would with Anthony Ketus. So I know there's different degrees of getting to know your clients as you're producing them. And I know there's an artist producer trust that has to be established, but I know there's different degrees of that of like which artists. I mean, and this is not asking what's your favorite artists you have worked with. But who's the closest? Who do you know the best that you feel that you're just actual friends with, like really friends?

Is it the Mars Volta guys? Is it, you know? No, I feel like I'm friends with a lot of them. I'm just thinking if there are any unique standouts. I would say the people who I've made the most albums with, that plays a role just because you're around them more. You know, it's just more hours together. Would that be the chili peppers?

Yeah, so like I've been a little. around the chili peppers a lot. So I probably know them better than somebody who I did, you know, a couple of songs with like Jay-Z. But I feel very comfortable when I hang out with Jay-Z. I feel like we're pretty good friends. Feels good. I mean just so close with Andrew Dice Clay, though. I'm just saying. I was pretty close with Dice. I would go out every night to the comedy store after my session and we would hang out in the kitchen of the comedy store. Chris Rock would be there often also. I mean, with the chili peppers, how do you, how do you see their growth as from where they were in, in 1991, I'd assume that blood, sugar, sex magic was the first time you work with them?

You didn't do Mother's Milk, correct? No, no. Although I thought Mother's Milk was their best record to date. That was the, Mother's Milk was the record that made me excited to work with them. Okay. So how is it working with them and managing their, you know, whatever you have to juggle to make it right as opposed to once they became more like a comfortable shoe that you were familiar with? I'll say I think it's the same. I don't think I think the goal is always to treat people respectfully and honestly. And that happens regardless of how deep the relationship is. I don't think that changes.

Pretty much the thing we're there to do looks the same either way. The only other thing that I'll say with the artists who I've made many records with, another like system of a down, I made all of their albums. With the bands that I've worked with several times, there gets to be a shorthand. Or like, usually the first record we make together, same Tom Petty, all of those. the first record we make together takes the longest because we're like you feeling each other at yeah like figuring out a vocabulary of how we're going to do it but once that's established it's much easier after that but only only out of just that decoding you know decoding the system

do you prefer piecemeal projects as far as getting uh you know they just say look i just want one song like you did one song on Justin Timberlake's record for Future Sex sounds. Oh, damn, that sounds like love sounds. Future Sex, Love Sounds. Future Sex Magic sounds, I don't know. As opposed to doing an entire album, what do you prefer? I really like making albums. I don't like doing songs because I think the nature of the process to get to an album,

to get to one song or to get to an album could be the same amount of experimentation. Do you know what I'm saying? To find the voice if you're working on one song, it takes just as long to figure out what that is. It may be longer,

because in a way, when you're working on a... Because you've got one shot. You only got one shot, and it's hard to even know the way in. But sometimes you'd be working on 20 songs, and one song you're like, oh, that's the key to the whole thing. Now we know how it's all going to work. Do you ever run into a situation in which where that trust isn't there where an artist is stubborn?

They feel that, you know, well, you know, I'm given a hypothetical example. I don't know like if you can tell Adele, okay, sing this shit again, give you. me take nine and she'll knock it out the part as opposed to again convincing the beastie boys that fight for your right is is the song and trust me on this one like how much trust me on this one in quote do you have to go through in your post in your post deaf jam post American recordings career it's like now in terms of like working with Neil Diamond or yeah I would say Blake Yeah, almost never.

Almost never trust me on this one. I don't like that. The goal is to, and I always say at the beginning of a project, it's like everyone has to like it. Everyone here has to love it. If I love it and you don't love it, we failed. If you love it and I don't love it, we failed. It just means we haven't gone far enough if we don't all love it.

Have you ever had to walk away from a project? I've never had to walk away, but I've been walked away on. I'm not a quitter. I don't quit projects. But there have been, there been a, I can tell you, I could tell you about a couple. Okay. We tried. Like, I started an album with Crosby, Sills, and Nash.

And, uh, 10 years ago, 12, about 10 years ago. And it was a, and there was a case of there being a lack of trust. But the lack of trust, more. had to do with themselves, like within the band. Like, it's another interesting thing. When the chili peppers first asked me to produce them, it was before Blood Sugar Sex Magic. It was two albums before that.

Freaky Styley? I think it was Freaky Styley. The one where it was all of the original members. And I remember a friend of mine... The UFO thing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Whichever one had all of the original members,

because a friend of mine said, who loved them, said, if you're ever going to produce the chili peppers, now is the time. It's all of the original members. This is the time. So me and Adam Harvitz, Beastie Boy, Adam Harvitz,

went to a rehearsal in L.A. on Sunset Boulevard of the Chili Peppers at that time. And there was just a weird, bad vibe in the room. Had nothing to do with us. It was just between them. It felt shady. And I didn't know what it was. Now, I've come to learn later.

It was drugs. But I didn't know that. I didn't know what to look for at that time. I just felt like this. It was before Helenslovak died, I think. It was before he died. Yes.

But there was the sense that these guys don't trust each other. Like they didn't look at each other with like, it just felt shaky. The whole thing felt shaky. And it felt like, I don't really think this is right for me to be around. Like, I don't know how to do this. And another one was Joe Cocker. I went into the studio with Joe Cocker. I had, at the time that I produced ACDC, and I got Malcolm Young to play rhythm guitar.

on Joe Cocker record, Mike Campbell from the Heartbreakers, Ben Munt from the Heartbreakers. It was a really good band. It was a really good session. And Joe, I wanted it to be a very raw, guttural, emotional album. And Joe saw himself more like Sting. He wanted it to be more like a Sting album.

Like Jazzy Sting. Did Summoner's Day? Like very produced. A hundred to five takes. Adult. Very adult. Ah, man. He wanted his Grammy moment.

Mercury Fall and Sting. And I just, it wasn't so much as I don't feel like I quit. It was just like our visions were so different that it just, no one was really interested. We didn't, nobody wanted to make the same thing. So that one didn't happen.

Yes. But considering how many albums I've made, I could count on one hand, less than one hand, how many times it has not worked out. You mentioned ACDC and I'm going to forget this question. Are they, do they have an iota? Or are they even remotely aware of how much flick of the switch has changed your life personally?

Other than what I told them. You know, I would tell them. It's like their music, they have no idea that that one note has fed. Is that where it's from? I don't even know. I just randomly picked stuff. No, no idea.

Rock the bells and just the trademark Rick Rubin. Noise is, okay, I always wanted to know. I wouldn't have even know. It's so funny, I wouldn't have even known that that's what it was. I just literally every time it's like, oh, I think it's on an ACDC record. And I just hunt through every track. Until I find something that does something like that.

Ah, man. It's very hip hop of you. Okay, so LL's a sophomore record. It's an interesting, unusual, unusual story. I don't believe I've ever told it publicly. At the time that I met L, he was being raised. His mom was in the picture, but he was mainly being raised by his grandmother. And he didn't know his dad.

And then we made our first album together. And then he became L.L. Cool J. Probably 17 at that time. And then L.L.'s dad appears. Oh, wow. And he comes back and L.L. obviously, wants his dad. And his, and Russell was managing L.L. and LL, if I remember correctly,

fired Russell and hired Jimmy his dad to be his manager. And I just felt like it was a bad vibe. Like I never discussed it with L. We never talked about it. It just felt like something's going on here that's dark. And this is not energy for me to be around. This is good is not going to come. from this situation and I just sort of bowed out and then it ended up it ended up turning bad

um sometime I don't know how much longer but I think there ended up being problems between Elle and his dad after that but it it just yeah it just felt too shady felt too um I didn't like that they were not nice to Russell when Russell really cared about Elle like firing a guy who was really working for you this new guy coming in the scene kind of under question Yes, he was his dad, but still, why wasn't he his dad before he was a little cool, Jay? Right. It was just, it just felt very weird. Can you explain to me what exactly was your role in Jesus and in the life of Pablo?

Because to see the credits on the albums, I'm just assuming that you're in a room with, over 12 to 20 chefs and everyone's just throwing ideas in. Well, just based on looking at the album credits. Like exactly. It's not exactly how it worked. Kanye built up the material over years for that, what ended up being Yeez-Is. Okay.

When he first came, he called me, he called me and said, hey, I want to come over and play you my new album. Okay. It's like, great. He came over, and we listened to three hours of music. Yo. With almost no vocals. What?

Like just, yes. And it's like, wow, cool. It's like off to a good start. What do you know, what are you thinking? You're going to, you know, make, you think you'll finish next year or something? He's like, it's coming out in three weeks. Wow. And I said, what?

It's like it made no sense. And then I played on Black Sabbath. I said, you know, I have this Black Sabbath album that's done and mastered. And that's not coming out in three weeks. That's coming out later than that. It's like this, this is what it sounds like when it's coming out in three weeks. And he said, I want you to help me finish it. I want it to be like, let's finish it.

And it was a terrifying experience because, I'd never worked on anything like that. I don't like to work on a deadline ever anyway. It's like I always feel like it sort of happens as it's supposed to happen. Some things happen very quickly. Some things take a long time. LL's first album probably took less than a month to record. And when I say less than a month, meaning a song, a day that's on the album,

over the course of a month. Do you know what I'm saying? Not in the studio every day for a month. Like, I got a new track. let's go in on Thursday. That happening, totaling a month. Whereas the first Beast, where the first Beasties album was probably two years in the making.

And it just took that long. It just took not every day. Again, it was like, I got you. It just takes a long time because you're waiting for the ideas to come. It's like it's not pre-written. We're writing it. Now most of the artists I work with, we don't go into the studio until, it's mostly all written.

So it's a different experience. And that could happen in a much shorter time. Wait, so did Kanye already have his verses written, but they just weren't on the tracks? No. No. It wasn't even clear what the songs were going to sound like or what was going to be on the album.

It was a very wide range of songs. And it was super cool. It was cool. I've come to learn that's the way he works. This was, I'd never worked like that before, so it was unusual to me, to him, it was standard. In the past, when I've said he wrote, you know, half of the lyrics on the last two days that like I'm saying

he doesn't care about it. That's not at all the case. Right. It's his process is living with it. He's singing to himself internally all the time. And he doesn't like to commit, he doesn't commit it down until it's going to stay because otherwise it's going to change.

so he doesn't like if he would have done if he would have played me songs with vocals done the album already would have been out right in the way he works right yeah i was going to say i remember whatever day that yeas came out i remember texting you maybe like three days before just on some okay is it going to happen or not because i i think they had a pushback date or whatever there was like a day that I was supposed to come out and it didn't. And you were like, we're literally in the middle of trying to wrap up right now. And I was like, wait a minute. If you're in the middle of trapping right, like doing it right now, then is the record pressed up?

And like I'm thinking in terms of the old system where you had to turn it in three months ahead of time, factory, all those things. And literally, well, even with Pablo, you guys were still editing and changing it. And next thing I knew, I had three different versions of the Pablo record because he just kept changing it over again. I remember when we finished Jesus and it came out about a week later, a week or two later, kind of came to the studio in Malibu and we just started talking about what do you think's next? Like, what do you think the next one's going to be like? And he was kind of excited to at least start marching in a direction. And we just started brainstorming.

and we had an idea then that actually ended up, it ended up not being so much what, not so much what Pablo's like, but it has come around to that eventually. But after we had a similar conversation, when Pablo got delivered, I was in Hawaii, and I remember getting new versions of the album every day to listen to and give my notes.

And I was giving notes every day. It's like, I just listen. I would drive up and down the road here in Kauai and listen and like, okay, this is, you know, this is working. Let's remix this. Let's try this. Whatever notes, you know, anything that I could add to help make it better. And then I talked to Kanye again, like it was now a ritual, a couple of weeks after the record

comes out. And I say, oh, so what are you thinking about? What are you working on? He's like, oh, I'm working on this mix on so-and-so. It's one of the songs on Pablo. It's like, that's out. What are you talking about? it's like well yeah it's out but i'm not done yet like really it's like i it just like blew my

mind the conversation blew my mind that you still because yeah up until well up yeah in my over the course of my life once it came out that was it's done yeah so to just that his ability to see past well just because that's the way it always is that means the way it is no it's like if i want to change it i'll change it and i'll change as many times as i'm I want. It's incredible. Blew my mind. Love it. Wow. To me, hearing the Yeez's record, and, you know, I'll admit that I'd consume most of my music now via my iPhone and my computer, not in the same way that I would have, you know, 20 years ago, like I put it in the stereo.

Yeah, that sort of thing. So first I was, I was, the mix was just really harsh to me. And then once I heard it in Madison Square Garden with no drums, I mean, the thing was like drums is almost non-existent on this record. And then I realized that, oh, wow, this album was made for stadiums and stadiums only. When you guys are working in the studio, are you blasting the music at the highest levels possible? Like, is he violating the don't kill your ears in the studio thing? or because I was taught like when you're in the studio you're supposed to have soft

volume so that way you don't kill your ears when you're mixing. But I know like rappers, not to peg him as quote rappers, but I know that we want to hear that shit loud and you know hit the ox button now like that sort of thing. We listen we listen at realistic levels. So in other words, if the thing we're making is meant to be heard, We listen to it loud. And we don't have giant speakers. We just use regular, you know, like the monitors that would sit on the desk.

We don't use big giant monitors. Okay. Kanye uses some big ones with, with, that are much louder than the ones that we have in the studio that I always request it to be turned down because it's too much for me. I see. You're 10. For a while, you were president of Columbia Records. why did you decide to take a desk job? And why, I mean, how was that experience for that tenure as president of Columbia?

It was not a desk job, which is why I entertained it. I said that in quotes. Air quotes. And my thought was, the thing that I do on records has very little to do with music. It's like my style of production. it would work regardless of whether it was music. It's like a way to look at things. It's a re-contextualization of what we're working on

and solving problems. I happen to do it mostly in music because that's just how it ended up. But the idea was to apply the same, like what would it be like to produce a record company? Wow. And there were other people to do the desk work.

And this was to be more of a helping curate the best artists, helping the artists make the best records that they can. It's basically the same thing that I do, except on a bigger scale. And at the time, by the time right till the end there, Columbia Records went from sort of a not great roster to maybe the best roster in the business

at that moment in time. The corporate politics of it were not something that suited who I am and I didn't engage. So basically, it'd be like if you're running for office and you're fighting in a debate with someone who's screaming at you and lying and cursing, I'm not doing that. So ultimately the situation worked in a way where it wasn't really good. It could have been great and it creatively was great. But had the politics not come into it, I think we'd still be doing it and be killing. Will you ever establish a label?

Well, I don't know there's a need to establish a label in 2020, but whatever the 2020 version of starting a deaf jam. or a deaf American or Colombia. Will you ever dive in that pool again? Are you fine with the zone that you're in right now? If there are any acts that I want to work with, which are few and far between that I want to sign, then I have a relationship with Universal where I can sign an act

and it'll be on American and it'll come out and I don't have to have a staff. It's like they do the record company part and I could be the creative partner. and that feels about right. I mean, if there was a reason to reinvent a label or help them get better, I'd be open to discussing. It's like, I like the challenge of making something good, whatever it is,

like figuring out, how do we make this better? I always wanted to ask you about Sir Mix a lot, man. What letter do you sign in? Yeah, I forgot. Yeah, shout to my buddy Dan Charnas, who used to work. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's great. Yeah, and he brought up a real, we had him on the show, like, when we first started, like, a couple of years back. And he brought up a really interesting thing. I'd never really noticed about you of, like, he noticed that you kind of tend to go for kind of nasally emcees, like, ad rock, mix a lot. You know what I mean? They have that kind of similar tone. So I was curious to know, like, what, how did you find out about mixing a lot and what led do you sign to him? Love the record Posse on Broadway. Yes, yes. That's the one. It was your record.

No. No, that was nasty mix. I know that. This is all I'm saying. And I'm so glad you brought this up Fonte. How did you, I never, as a Philadelphia, I feel guilty for not mentioning what your relationship to PSK was. And by the transit of axiom, how did you feel about the way the entire West Coast

sort of ate up that particular style? that was with Sir Mix-a-Lot. That was especially with the first NW.A record. Every song was in the n-da-da-da-dun-dun-dun-dun. Like, it was practically the West Coast. Like, were you at all aware of the blueprint that licensed to ill gave to the entire coast? Not really. I think probably too close to see.

Also, you know, I come to realize later that, Brass Monkey, like there was no such thing as Miami Base before Brass Monkey. So it's like it led to a lot of different, it had different tentacles that inspired people in different ways. No, no doubt. Man, so it makes a lot how you like Ponceau and Broadway and then how did you go about looking Yeah, I just reached out to him and said, hey, if there's ever an opportunity to work together, I'd love to do it. And then it ended up working out. He's like, well, I'm on my own label. I don't really want to do that now. But and then eventually he came around. I'm like, yep, I think I'm ready to do this. Let's do this. Was baby got back on the American?

Was that on American? Yes. Oh, okay. That was on the Mac Daddy album. Oh, okay. And I can't remember. I've heard Mixelot say that I change the tempo of it drastically in a way that he loves, but like that I heard it differently than he heard it.

I don't really remember that, but that I've heard him say that. You're saying that you physically slowed it down? I think I sped it up. He sped it up. Yeah. But I'm not sure. I honestly, I don't remember it at all. He would, he would know better than I.

I was gonna say just back on your American stees, there was a record you signed that was, it really took me by surprise that you signed them because it was unlike anything that you would ever sign or worked with before. The record, the knots were also, and I only know if you remember. Shit, the not's an American?

Yeah, that was a Dan Charnas signing. That was a Dan Charnas. I love the album, man. My shit. And, of course, of Atlanta. that I forgot. Yep, question about that too.

Is that Dan Tarnas as well? I think so. Damn. Okay, I totally forgot about those two. So with your A&Rs, you just pretty much let them kind of do them, just like if y'all like it, if y'all believe in it,

I'll fuck with it. Like, what was your role in it? It was a combination. It's like if they were really passionate, either I had to like it too or if they were really passionate, it's like, this is the one. The whole idea of having more A&R people

was not just to find stuff for me. it was like if someone really was in love with something, then it was exciting to see what could happen. And it worked out in the case of the, if you like those records that Dan signed, and if you liked the Black Crows that George signed, then it worked. I got one more music question before I ask you my last question, because we could be 12 hours.

Working, well, I know that you produced, and I'm a big fan of the strokes. I know that you worked on the new abnormal. First of all, Did that title come up in very last minute? No. In relation to where we are now because that that's sort of an apropos title. Did not.

It just, it was a title that, that Julian came up with the pre-pre-virus. And it's again just sort of a, the universe conspiring to make the art right. I'm assuming that they recorded out in Hawaii with you. We recorded in Malibu. Okay. Which I think is kind of different than all the studios that they previously recorded, recorded their music in. So how hard was it to get the well-oiled machine of what the strokes represented,

especially in the early aughts? And I know there was so much pressure on them to be the next big thing, in quotes. like how much of that was on their minds making this record? Because I can only assume that they took a 10-year hiatus because of the pressure of living up to something that they couldn't sort of jump over, a hurdle that they couldn't match or whatever. Well, I think the first record they put out

was considered their like breakthrough. That's the one. That's the one that sort of lit everything up. And then the second out, the second album seems like it didn't change the world but continued that and then since then it's been more hit and miss um so i don't think they felt a tremendous i don't i didn't get the sense that they felt a tremendous amount of pressure i think they felt like let's make another album because that's what we do we haven't done it in a while and hoping it would be good you know

it's another like chili peppers they had asked me to produce an album eight or ten years ago and uh they sent me demos and i listened to demos and i just i couldn't hear i couldn't imagine how this like how to make something that interesting with what they sent like it didn't it was just not a good starting point and um but if that's a no from you is does that filter to them that oh shit this might be bad i don't know i just i just said i don't think this is right for me. I don't, I don't see how to do this. And then on this album, they sent me demos. And these were probably the worst quality demos I've ever gotten from any artist in that one track might be a 30 second voice note on the phone, like real, very, very basic.

Like thumbnail sketches. And I listened to that. These. And it's like, oh, this is going to be great. We got to make this. It's like I could feel what was there was inspiring. It's like you could listen to a 20 second clip and go, oh, if there was a song that sounded like this 20 second clip, I'd listen to that all day. Let's make that.

So is that the beginning of working with you? Like one has to send the roughest sketch of a song before you can see the light to see how you can develop it. or does everyone do the Kanye thing where it's damn near completed and then you just, you can add the finishing touches to it? There's no rule. There's no rule. It's, um,

like have you ever built an album from the ground up like, okay, songwriting session? Less songwriting sessions, but like with the chili peppers, I would come to rehearsals pretty early on. We would probably go through. They might,

they might have written a hundred songs for every album we did. And we would talk about him and narrow him down. What was it about under the bridge that attracted you? The way that it happened was just based on the lyric. It was a lyric that I found in Anthony's book of poetry. And I asked him, what song is this? And he said, I sound really chili pepper song. That's more of a personal thing, more of a poem.

And I said, well, how would you sing it if you were to sing it? And he sang it for me. He said it's like it's a ballad. It's not a chili peppers thing. and he sang it to me and I said it's really beautiful and people like the chili peppers not necessarily because you're a funk band with rap lyrics people like the chili peppers because they like the music you four guys make and if this is an example of something good that you make I think I think people accept that's like that's you don't have to put

such a limitation on what the band is. It's like it's about the band is about the people in it. What's so great about the Beatles? If you listen to their early records and their late records, they don't sound like the same band. And that's just in seven years, that arc. Is there an act that you never, with the exception of Bill Withers,

and I know your stories of you pursuing them, is there an act that you would have liked to have worked with that you never got a chance to live or not alive or disbanded or not disbanded. Well, obviously, Beatles or Led Zeppelin or any of the greats would be... Like, has McCartney ever approached you about producing a record or... Fishbone or, you know...

Yeah, I met with McCartney and talked about making something has not yet happened, but you never know. I would be interested to see how that works. What made you settle down into the podcast world? And was it the allure of doing it with Malcolm Gladwell and Bruce Hetlam? Or, like, why? Why is that now another part of your resume? Wait, can I give a small preface for this question?

So I did your very first podcast, correct? Was that something like that? One of the first. One of the first. NAM is like the pilot. But yeah, Amir, you're in there. Okay, I literally had no idea what I was walking into. Because, you know, sometimes my business would be just a little bit janky.

So I was on my way to the studio thinking I was doing a QLS episode. because it was the same studio wherever we interviewed Heather Hunter or that jazz studio that Steve recommended I got there and it was like oh shit I'm here to do a QLS episode

with Malcolm Gladwell and then I was like wait where's where's Laia and everyone at and then I was like wait Rick Rubin you're on this episode too and I just winged it in about 20 minutes into it I realized oh

I'm here I got to read my emails better. I'm here to do their That's the interview you got to prepare for, right? Amir? Like being interviewed by at least those two. Sometimes I fly out the seat with just restalling a podcast show and having no clue what I'm there for and just

getting lucky. So when I did their episode, I literally went to that building thinking it's a Malcolm Gladwell episode of Questlove Supreme. And then when I saw Rick Rubin's face on the television thing because he of our monitor. I was hella confused. I was like, wait a minute. What am I doing here?

I had to run in the other room and like call like, wait, what am I doing? You're doing someone's spot. I thought. I didn't know this. So. But yeah, talk about why you even chose to put that into your energy. I was friendly with Malcolm and I loved his podcast, revisionist history. And he told me he had an idea to do a new podcast around music and asked if I would be interested in being involved. And I thought I'm a fan of his work, be fun. It's like, dude's up with Malcolm. I wouldn't have normally,

I probably wouldn't have chosen to do a music podcast on my own at that time just because I feel like to talk about music most of the time in my normal life. It's almost like the podcast would be to talk about something else that I'm interested in. I don't even know what that would be. Like there are a lot of things. So it's hard to say.

I never thought about it. But this was more his invitation. made it seem like, oh, that'd be fun. I love what he does. So maybe I'll learn something about podcasting, doing something with him. Yeah, it seems like y'all don't ever have to worry about guests. So I was kind of cramming and I was listening.

The Andre episode. The Andre was just about to say, like, yeah. That was like saying, especially when y'all talked about like beyond moments. We were, I had made a note about that and the moments that are just beyond. And you were talking about how just these moments in your life where it's like, if you did not do one thing, these other things wouldn't happen. like if you would have stayed in Chicago.

Chicago, right, babe, we were listening together. Yeah. Yeah, we have a lot of mutual friends in common. So just hearing of your evolution, your spiritual evolution, your physical evolution, your physical evolution, you know, you've been definitely kind of a life goal mission for me, at least where you are with your life and everything. Like, what's your daily routine? And I know like surfing is played a part of it and all that stuff.

In Kauai now, I've been doing a 90-minute walk every morning on the beach, barefoot, a lot of sun, and listening to podcasts that 90 minutes. That's where I listen to. If I listen to one of your pieces, it'll be while I'm walking on the beach. And that's the very first thing every day. And I get that out of the way. And then I can start focusing on work or whatever else there is to do for the rest of the day. but I feel like having that right when I wake up because if I wait, if I wait an hour,

I won't do it. Facts. That's me. And if I wait an hour, not only will I won't do it, I'll eat. You do something. Yeah, you do some fucks. Well, I'll definitely eat because if I'm sitting around and I'm hungry. If I'm walking for 90 minutes, I'm not thinking about food because I'm involved in the podcast

or book on tape and I'm walking and enjoying myself. and my mind is completely occupied because I'm very, you know, I listen to things that I'm interested in and learn stuff and it's great. I look forward to it every day. I feel like I run out of time, you know, like I listen in the car on the way, I listen on the beachwalk, I listen on the way back, and then usually I have stuff to do to start my day and it's like, but I have so much more research to do. I have so many more things to listen to and I run out of time. Yeah. What has quarantine been like for you, Rick? What is what?

Changes quarantine, like just kind of how we're in quarantine now and kind of being locked down. What has that been like for you? It hasn't changed so much other than the fact that we're in Kauai because normally we wouldn't normally be in Kauai now we'd be in Malibu. But because Malibu is locked down, Kauai's lockdown too, we were here in over the holidays and we were going back to start. I was going back to start new Aivit Brothers album first week of March. And then I got to call Days.

before saying, hey, stuff's getting sketchy. We're thinking maybe we should just stay home. And it's like, perfect. I'm staying here. You guys stay home. Let's, you know, let's wait a minute and figure out what's happening. And that leads us to today. How severe is it in Hawaii right now as far as...

There are no cases on the island, which is unbelievable. All of them? There are seven islands of Hawaii. I thought to say. They're, you know, half hour flight apart. But this one has none. And Kauai has like a lower population. Yes.

It's very few people and they're far apart. And it's a great place to be on quarantine. Again, if we weren't here, I don't think we would have come here for it. But the fact that we were here and the opportunity arose seemed like a good choice. The universe, again, was smiling on us. Do you still are those dogs? I saw you once with the dogs with the, The mop heads.

Yes, I have one. His name is Champa. I had two before him named. The current dog's name is Cello. The two prior were Champa and Monday. Champa and Monday passed away at 18, 19 years old. And now Champa is Monday's brother's son, I think. So in the family.

And he's probably 12. It wasn't a pack of them. I could have sworn I seen like a family of them. I had two before. Now I have one. I saw one and then the other one, the other would follow wherever one would go. Okay.

I remember that. Yeah. I wonder, no, man, do you still, when you're working out your ideas, are you like still making tracks or does it start on an instrument? How do you flesh out the ideas that you may have?

It really depends. I don't do it for the sake of doing it. So it's more like if there's a reason to me, make something. If I'm working on a project that needs a piece of music that needs to start with me, which I'd prefer not to do. I like, I like collaborating. I like hearing something and finding pieces that I could make into the thing that I want to make as opposed to starting from scratch. If I have to start from scratch, I can, but it's not my favorite thing to do. And if it is, I'll either make a beat on a drum machine or I'll start with a sample and then build up a track around

the sample and then either keep the sample in, remove the sample, mess with the sample. Yeah. Are you using like Ableton or like what software? We usually do everything in Pro Tools, although it's still Pro Tools, you know, just still out of, you know, I don't know any better. And I don't know how to run Pro Tools. I don't really, I'm not a technical person at all. I just can say, I like it like this.

Let's change this beat. When you take on a project, do you stay on that project or are you able to hop from project to project like, okay, I'm going to work with chili peppers at the studio on Monday and then running to do the Dixie Chicks next week over there and blah, blah, blah, like, or are you just a, I do, you hire me and we, if it's over three months, then we're in trouble. Like, how do you schedule your, the first one? Because the, it's, I don't think it's possible to say, we're going to put three months on hold, and in that three months, we're going to make the best album the world has ever heard. I don't, I don't, I don't believe in

that. I don't believe it's possible. Maybe some people can do it. I don't know, I don't know how that works. So every project has its own rhythm. And as I said, sometimes it happens very quickly. sometimes it takes a long time and I don't I try not to do it as much as possible based on my schedule it's always about the artist schedule and when I say the artist schedule

I don't mean the artist schedule of when they want to go on vacation I mean the artist schedule of when the idea is hot you know when the songs are ready we have to find a way way that when the moment is right to make it, that we can make it. And I can think of very few times in my life where it hasn't worked out where at a time I might have been making five albums

at the same time back in the days when I'd have to go from studio to studio. It might be we're doing overdubs with this artist and I'm working on just vocals with another artist on a different album at a at same time maybe i do noon to noon to three with one artist and three to six with another artist that way or maybe i'm doing pre-production with one and working on mixing with another and it could be as many as you know four or five or six going on same time it's not unusual because some of them could go on for years you know do you work as a team or alone i work with engineers and each project usually i try to have an engineer dedicated to that particular particular project.

Okay. Like a tag team partner. So, and also, I like to work, like in the old days, I used to work all night, drive home as the sun was coming up. Now I'm on an early schedule. So I like to have the session start at like noon or one. And I like to be done by six. Now, that doesn't mean, like on the Strokes album, which we just, you know, made recently,

just came out three weeks ago or something. Right. I would come from noon to six. and then I would leave a list, a to-do list, so the band could go on working as late as midnight. You know, the band could work as long as they want and have a list of things to do in addition to anything that they would want to try on their own.

And then the next morning I would come in, we would review what happened the night before, and then we would start on the day's work. I got to try that. Yeah, and I've also, by making a lot of albums, I've come to realize when my voice is particularly helpful in the process. And sometimes it's in pre-production it means a lot. In the basic track, it means a lot.

Getting the vocals, it means a lot. But many of the other times during overdubs, during guitar solos, I usually, if I trust the artist, I let them do it. And then I might come in, like with Tom Morello, if we're doing on either a rage record or an audio slave record, he'll do solos on everything and then I might come in say those are all great and this one's not as good

like we got to and then maybe redo this or if there's ever ones where it's like let's work on this one together for some reason if he can't crack the code on his own then we'll do it together but I don't like to hold an artist's hand I don't like to

ultimately if the artist feels like they've done everything themselves that's the best feeling for me Like, I don't want, I don't want it to, I don't want the process to be about me. Life lessons. One and only. Life lessons.

Rick Rubin. Don't make it about you and walk first thing in the morning. Don't want the process to be ugly. Before you do it. See, that's the one thing because you know who downstairs always says, see, Rick Rubin walks early in the morning. And you don't do that. So now I'm going to have to wake my eyes. up at six in the morning.

Up on your shit. I saw whenever you wake up. Your first thing is. Just do it first. I'll create a bunch of excuses. I have to get up at six and walk. All right. Thank you, Rick.

I will now reach my goal of 2.20 pounds. I'm going to walk because Rick said, because Rick said so. Anyway, Rick, I've, dude, this has been what, like four years in the making?

Yes, yes. Shout us to Dave. Shout out today. I have this bucket list. I have a suggestion. quest, which is every day for the next, let's make it three weeks. When you go on your walk, just send me a message at the end saying, I walk this long today.

Just a little check in like, hey, I did this today. Accountability. I will do so. Yes. I'm about accountability. And I'm about accountability. I'm about accountability and I'm about integrity. Life coach.

Yes. About integrity. 220 is right around the bin. I'm ready for the shit. Thank you. Then send a group text to all of us and we'll go, yeah, we finished ours too. Y'all going to be asleep.

All right, so on behalf of Rick Rubin. Yes. Yes. On behalf of Sugar Steve, unpaid Bill, Fia, Fon Ticcolo, and be great,

incomparable, Rick Rubin. Four years we've been dying for this. My name is Questlove. This is Questlove Supreme. We will see you on the next year round. Thank you. Gweslove Supreme is a production of IHeartRadio. For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, visit the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest, the director of the NFL, NFL's East-West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar.

This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, for wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok Podcast. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I bowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends.

Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an I-heart podcast, guaranteed human.