The Questlove Show - Questlove Supreme: RZA Part 1

Episode Date: November 13, 2024

RZA and Questlove connect for a special one-on-one interview that delves into leadership, creative originality, and some crucial Wu-Tang Clan history. RZA, who just released his Classical album, A Ballet Through Mud, reflects on making Wu's breakthrough single "Protect Ya Neck," his sample pioneering work on Raekwon's Only Built 4 Cuban Linx..., and how age has reinforced his growth, maturity, and purpose. This is the first half of a follow-up discussion between Quest' and The Abbott.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed human. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits,

my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, the Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you

won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, for wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slice of Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target. is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves.

We always say that trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Everyone, I'm Ego Wood. My next guest, it's Will Ferrell. My dad gave me the best advice ever. He goes, just give it a shot.

But if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Daniel Alarcon. and this is my friend is much more famous than I am. I wouldn't go that far, but I'm John Green, co-host of the podcast The Away End with my old friend Daniel. On our podcast, The Away End,

we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the Away End with Daniel Auerkone and John Green

on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Questlove's surprise. is a production of I Heart Radio. Ladies and gentlemen, so last week we did a special 101 with Kathleen Hannah, and you guys should check that out. And we're here to do it again.

Shout out to the rest of Team Supreme. I'm here with one of my hip-hop peers, someone who lit a path for me. He's a producer, an author, a film director, a curator, a world-class performer, one of the best coaches in hip-hop. He's also releasing a classical music album, a ballet through mud, inspired by some of his childhood lyrics. And we're going to talk

about that. Plus his illustrious 30 plus years as a band leader, producer. This technique is so much more. I can't believe that we finally, finally got the one and only Riza Orn Kostlove Supreme. How are you doing, sir? Peace, peace, peace, peace, bong, bong, and blessings and all that. You know, you got to tell me the history of Bong-Bong. Like, I thought Tariq made that. Wouldn't it Bong-Bong become your, what I assume is your greeting and your exit? No, Bong-Bong is like, you know, growing up in my hood, me and my cousins, and, you know, Stapleton Project, ghosts, we have a conversation,

and the conversation would have a little, not that many words in it. It'd be like, yo, son, I'm not pushed through. No, I mean, bong. Quarter like that, bong, bong, you know what I mean? Bong. I got it. You'll happen. All right, so I'm going to make a Wunamatapeia

and say that bong bong is sort of a wu-tang version of an anamatapia. Like your Batman words, bong, bong, bong, bong. Yeah. I got you. That means everything. You know, it's good. There it is. All good.

Where is it at? How you feeling? Yeah, bong, bong, we hit. I got you. I got you. How are you doing today, bro? How's it going for you? You're in L.A. right now as we speak. Yeah, I mean, L.A. right now, Q-Till just broke out. We was brainstorming on some ideas. I know you already shouted them out. We all shout out. But we can't shout it out enough. Congratulations, you know, for the Rock and Rocauld Hall of Fame with Trial Court Quest. It's just such a, to me, a blessing for hip-hop in particular. It's a blessing for them, of course, first and foremost. but even a blessing for hip hop.

These time one of us get inducted into that world it just shows the validation of the culture of permeating, you know, beyond its original thought scope at the end of the day, right? And in the beginning, it was like, you know, certain things were unfanned the world. You couldn't imagine that was going to happen. My first house was down the street from the Rock and Bole Hall of Fame.

My first house was in Cleveland, Ohio. Cleveland. Okay. You know, just seeing my peers, getting the chance to enter there, but it's a blessing. And, yeah, I was just chopping up with him right before I jumped on with you. Okay. It's rather notable that both you and him sort of in the same space for hip-hop enthusiasts, at least of my age, we always acknowledge that second week of November for a lot of hip-hop heads, if the beginning of the classic hip-hop period starts. Some say either, you know, it starts with criminal minded.

A lot of people feels, though, the end of the classic period is the double release of Midnight Marauders and 36 Chambers. I know of his story, especially with his canon, but for you, though, I would like to know that particular day in November of 1993 when into the 36 Chambers comes out. Are there any sentimental

memories that you have? You know, for us, we was actually on a promo tour at the same time, right? So, you know, I recall all of us being in one of those 15 past your white vans just on the destination, records store signing or radio

you know, just on that promo tour. I remember, you know, we had Mojo with us. He represented the radio for loud records in RCA. Charm, I don't know if you remember Charm. It used to be from Tommy Boy, she came over to RCA. And I actually remember the kid Leroy, the guy who we used to just like probably heckle him and dealing with the wool was like, you know, he was a missing. Right.

And this day was like, I think I'll, you know, even my, My feeling was, you know, I used the word elation. I was elated, right? Feeling like, wow, this album is being shared with the world, you know what I may? And, you know, the confidence, which was at the highest level. I got to say that, you know, we didn't enter without our music, without the confidence of surety of that it was going to be some shit. You know what I mean? We was like, we kind of was like some shit, yo.

This going to, this going to fuck, niv. up, excuse my language, but this is like, you know, you want to take me back to that. You got to take me back to the garage. So it's like, maybe it's going to be screaming this shit. You know, watch, we're going to fuck them up. They're going to shake, niggas. You know, I mean, we was on it, right? And the interesting thing that happens by the evening,

to be going to different record stores. Snoop Doorkdaw comes out that day as well. I don't know if you record that. Okay, I do remember Doggy Style coming out around November. Yeah, either that day or the week before, but Master Killer gets in the car with that, you know what I mean? And throws that in, you know what I mean? And it's like, okay. And tribe

was already, it was already family. Like, you know, our history was already tied in. So, you know, it was just one of those, it was it was a great day for hip hop to be quite honest, you know what I mean? And, and listening to those albums while we're driving, listening to our album, you know what I mean?

It was just like, it felt like hip hop had a chance again because, yo, how we felt, I don't know if we talk about this a lot, but you just pointed out, you know, criminal-minded, you know, we're talking about, you know, Raq Kim, 86, Karras 1, 87, you know, by the time we got to 91, it wasn't happening like that no more. Right.

You know, 87 or 89, you might have got it. You know, 90, 91, it went to a different chamber. And we was very dissatisfied with that. You know what I mean? And even ourselves, when we were striving to get out there, it's like the industry was trying to chase that chain. And when we got a chance just to say, you're doing hip hop.

Like, you can't, and I think hope not, I hope not, I hope not saying it's egotistically quest. But you can't not deny that, even if Wu-Tang Clan eventually ends up in the rock and roll whole of fame, right? But you can't deny that first album. The only category for it at that time was hip-hop.

You know what I mean? Like, you could take some other albums and no disrespect. Like, you could take MC Hammer and you can take MC Hammer. And you could say that maybe it's funk, maybe it's, whatever. You know, that's because he's rapping over it, don't make it hip hop. Right.

See what I mean? Now, with the arrival of Wu-Tang, from my perspective, especially the genius, relentless way that you guys kind of served us between 93 and 95 with the five solo records, the group album. Like, it felt like, okay, hip-hop is, is state. like this is our lane. And little did we know, like after 1997, just a sea change happened in which there's kind of like a tsunami with where hip-hop,

at least the hip-hop culture that you and I are used to. And a lot of it had to do with sample clearances and, you know, sort of people seeing it as a business, whereas, you know, we could get away with whatever because not many people were looking down our throats as creators. but then all of a sudden it's like you got to clear this snare and this hook and all that stuff. But for you, in hindsight, did you realize that the Wu-Tang's entry was going to sort of be the end of something that didn't seem like it was ever going to end as far as that particular spirit of hip-hop is concerned?

I don't know if I saw that as the end because I think it waived, right? It went, peaking and came in different forms. Even now, some people would say, well, Gizelda is a version of that, right? Right. So, you know, at one point, it was in our future was another version of that. Right. So I don't think it ended, but what. Well, the spirit is there.

Right. The spirit is there, but kind of the. The sound, but from my perspective, right? So being in it is different, right? So from my perspective, it's almost like it was like we were countered. Okay. Hip hop was counted by business, countered by legalities and interpolation laws, counted even by... How can I say this?

Hot 97, like, Palm Master Flex sat down with me and he apologized to me, right? And he basically was like, yo, at the end of the day, you know, there was an agenda to stop it. like to like to like to to be like yo cut that off turn this up you know what I mean and if you're you know a white castle burger is a white castle burger right you know what I mean but they you know we lined up for that right not knowing the long-term effect of it versus something home cook and so I'm naive to be quite frank with you brother I'm pretty naive about the world in a way because especially at that time of my life I'm focused on the world I'm trying to see.

Right. Right. Like, I'm a type of dude that... Well, that's called living in the present, which is what you should be doing. Right. Right. Exactly. Until I saw five deadly venoms back in Blockbuster, I wasn't happy.

You know what I mean? Because it's like, I got to go to the bootleg store for that. You know what I mean? I wanted whatever we was bringing to the culture to be a valuable. You know what I mean? I wanted to see a Spotted Man movie or Iron Man movie. So I'm living in that narrow bubble of striving to express to the world, the childhood that I thought was healthier and better creatively, right? So then I don't pay attention that I'm being counted and even though I was being counted, you know.

And when I learned I was being counted by my peers and even by, you know, by the system itself, you know, I learned that years later. But fortunately, fortunately for Wu, there's still a level of purity in us as people. You know what I mean? Like, ghost face is just always his ghost faces. Like, that's it. Right. And so fortunately for that, whatever happened out in the world or whatever was changing, we didn't go so far, you know, they didn't go too far to chase it.

You know what I mean? Right. And look this way, look this way, and check that out, check that out. But we didn't go too far to chase it. And I was so. So I guess, you know, the answer to your question is like in hindsight, I didn't see the ending because it didn't end in me. But in hindsight and learning what I know now,

I was like, man, motherfuckers was actually trying to kick me out of the room. You know what I mean? I feel you. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,

or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast.

It's a space for honest conversations, stories, that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. Rule 2, never mess with her friends either.

We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care, so they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no.

I vowed. I will be his last tart. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, everyone? I'm Ago Vodam.

My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that

means, but I just know the groundlings, I'm working my way up through and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes,

but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be.

Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest, the director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to

understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slical Life 12 and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. In 2023, former bachelor star Clayton Eckerd found himself at the center of a paternity scandal. The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story. This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth. You doctored this particular test twice in someone, correct? I doctored the test ones.

It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case. I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for. Sunlight's the greatest disinfected. They would uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg, a lesbian, Michael Marantini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young.

This is Love Trap. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at Americopa County as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges. This isn't over until justice is served in Arizona. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So right now I'm working on the Earthwind and Fire documentary. And a lot of what I know about your modus operandi is sort of parallel with where Maurice White was informing Earthwind and Fire.

Him using astrology, him having affinity for the number nine. literally like him writing, manifesting, a manifesto of what he wants the group to do, what he wants the group to achieve, things that I've known you've done as far as like planning out what I'm going to organize, who's going to be in the circle, and how we're going to do it. Like a lot of cats don't know that that's metaphysics or manifesting, but that's exactly how Maurice White structured earth. would fire. Like, I don't know if I'm necessarily a coach in the way that you were a coach,

but how exhausting is it, especially in those first five years, how exhausting is it in being the head coach or the de facto leader of this empire? First of all, why nine members for the Wooten Clint? Like, was that on purpose or was that just like, who was there? No, no. First, it was eight. Right. Okay. I understand Master Killa's situation. So I still count him in terms of, he became nine by the time. You know, first it was eight, right? Like the eight points on the star, right? Okay. That's why I know. I look. I sound the seven in the center of the eight point star, right? So a lot of things that was aspiring me was mathematics, knowledge of self, knowing that a determined idea is as powerful as a nuclear bomb.

In fact, it took a determined idea to make a nuclear bomb. So having that impulse over me and knowing that the emcees that was in my community that I was friends with, buddies with, had demo tapes with, knowing that the industry actually needed it, in my opinion, like the industry needed a joke of the real people that's literally. in it, right? And not just some of the people, and I hope I'm not saying it's in the offensive way, but not just some of the people who was like already in or who went through their experience. It's like, the thing about Wu-Tang that's kind of crazy than it's, it's seven felons in U-Tang.

So that's, though, that's the people that's written off. You know what I mean? It's probably, man, it might be eight high school dropouts. You know what I'm saying? So this is, the people that that ain't going to get a chance in all reality. And yet this is the people that's loving hip-hop, living hip-hop, writing their lyrics and misspelling the words at some phases. You know what I mean? And to my ear and to my knowledge of the industry itself, I was like, nah, this band of MCs, right, can naturally come through and rock the world. And I was, And I'll have the validation of course of the judge in ODB, right? I have their validation as well, meaning they agreed.

And when the rest of the clan agreed to the idea, right, and we all live by mathematics who says, once you make an agreement, you've got to live up to that. You know, I mean, you've got to live through your world. Your world is your bond, right? So once we agree that this, you know, that this idea, this course of action is the course of action to take to go ahead And we were striving for domination.

I don't act like that wasn't a target for us, right? A target that would be number one. Once we agree that we're going to do that, and then somebody at the front of the spear, at that time I was like, I'm the tip of the spear. I see the target. I just need y'all to fit the force behind me. You know what I mean?

With that aspiration and inspiration, yes, I saw that clearly. Even if nobody else saw it, right? Because sometimes you may ask another room member that you said, nah, he didn't see it. He didn't see it. You may hear it once a year I saw it or once a y'all believed in my brother. Did they believe you?

Like, were they all in the room at the same time or was it just like sort of some Hollywood? Yeah, let's do lunch shit. Like, okay, we'll make a record. Like, we gathered and we built. You know, I verbalized it, you know. And look, one of the simple quotes of it that I use for, I'm a guy of analogies. My analogy to them was like, yo, the only way we're going to get there is if you guys let me drive the bus with no questions,

and you always be the passengers. And I promise I'll get us there. But I don't need nobody. Like, it has to be a dictatorship in all reality. Right. That was, that was like, that's what I need. Right, because I'm going to with alphas, okay? In a given moment, you know, I mean, anybody can knock anybody out.

If it's on like that, there's all real, real men, right? So therefore conflict can't exist because the conflict would be self-destruction. And so we all got to agree that the Abbott is driving the bus. And when we get there, I said, I need five years to get there, though. And when I get there, then it's cool. And we got there, right? But everybody agreed. And even when it got a little weird here or weird there, the agreement always came up.

And the reaffirmation of the agreement. And so at least four other brothers, like, nah, son, that ain't right because we gave our work. Right. And so that's, I mean, that's a long answer to the question. But let me add on one other thing when you talk about, you know, how Earth went in fire, yourself, you know, Maurice White, yourself, myself, as this coach position. Yeah, it's taxing. It's not easy. You know, I had a lyric about it.

I said something about, I said, rhyming to me is easier than breathing. And making beasts for me is easier than peeing. But fucking with the Bhutan clan is like riding down a thousand foot hill through pine trees and snow on one ski. I see that. Right. And I know that.

Right. Right. We take that ride. So it was. was tough, right? And it was tough. I'm going to never deny that. I got you. But it was actually in hindsight now, and living as the man I am today, it was also the greatest forging of myself that I ever could have gotten. Like, I would not be the father I am, the man that I am. If those experiences didn't happen in my life, if those, whether there was arguments or

challenges or even submissions to ideas, if I didn't experience, that, right? It's like, my best example, I was doing my film, right? I had 400 people working for me, yo. Right? I have a list actors and I had all these personalities. If I didn't have already

dealt with that in my youth with the wool, I wouldn't know how to deal with it then. Right. And the way I handled it, the executives gave me another job because it was like, yo, this guy can handle some shit. Do you ever have self-doubts? Because of everything you've done.

I'm talking about scoring, directing. Like, have you ever met a challenge in which you was sort of like, I'm not sure? I mean, of course, right? But I would just say that if there's a solution that exists, I strive for the solution. You know, I remember when we was young, they say nobody is perfect, right? And when I was about 17, 18 years old, I had already, you know, I knew 120 lessons already. So 120 lessons, you know what that is. I got to explain that.

Right. So, and then brothers move on to what they call plus lessons. And with plus lessons, you know, you're learning outside of the teachings, right? All the brothers' contribution to the teachings. And then I became, so I writing my own. Right. And so I wrote one called striving for perfection. Right.

As I was getting this out of my system, the question was, we always say that somebody's imperfect. But if I accept that I'm imperfect, then I'll never have perfection. So I can, so I got to know, I got to accept that I'm perfect, that there is a solution to perfection, right? And if there is that, then I can be that. You know what I mean? And so by writing that out into a textual form and reading it and passing it to my students and memorizing and quoting it, it gave me an extra level of confidence of like, you know what? At the end of the day, there's a mathematical solution to it. And when I say mathematical, mathematical could be a physical, spiritual, emotional, social, social, social, economic, right?

mental, it ain't just a riff-metickle, you know what I mean? Or add in division and subtracting. It's almost like, yo, that might require a spiritual solution. That might require an economic solution. That might require a physical solution. You know what I mean? And so knowing that and being confident that those solutions

exist, yeah. You know, and I always say, I'll pray this due to a law. I could go into those bags and bring that and utilize it to find that answer. And I'll just say this last piece on it artistically, though, it's like art, duty is in the eye of the beholder. Right. So first, I got to just see it as being beautiful.

All right, I'll take that. Do you have a spiritual practice of meditation or like, do you write affirmations down? Do you, or is it just something in you, a confidence in you that says, I'm going to achieve that? Yes, it's internal now, right, at this age, right? And I'm going to mathematics in this conversation. I don't have good a chance.

I understand it. Go ahead. Hit me. Once a man hits 40, right, according to mathematics, force for freedom, culture and freedom. Right. Culture is your way of life. Freedom is the freer dome from ignorance and foolishness that keeps you dumb or numb to the world. Right.

So if you have culture and freedom, right, and you get your 40s, you now should be free from all that other shit that you dealt with physically free. You know what I mean? Because your body is already now evolved. And so once that happened in my life, I accepted that. So I accept every mathematic of my life. In my 30s, it says three is for understanding. So you've got to understand what you're going through. So first you've got to understand knowledge, understand wisdom, right?

Understand, even understanding. So therefore, your understanding becomes what? Understood. Right. You got to understand. Coach, so all these different degrees, I keep those applied to myself. and therefore I'm able to forecast myself or at least know where I'm at in space and time.

And that's a big equation for us when men, women, and child, strive to always know where you're at in space and time. Okay. Some dudes are still in the 90s or the 2000s. Like, hold on, son, take a look where you're at in the space and time now, right now. And then also know where the rest of your cipher is

and the rest of the things are around you. So, of course, our lesson teaching is just the fact. And to pray. So yeah, fast and then prayer is healthy, right? Super healthy. But the first lesson is knowledge. It says, do, knowledge is not just the word of, that's why Kim said, right, in the lyric, no, the ledge. But knowledge becomes an act, a physical act, right? So it ain't just reading. So the mathematics that knowledge is to look, listen, observe, and also respect. Now, you may look at something. You may listen to something, but did you observe it and did you respect it? And if you miss any of those components, you're not doing the knowledge because knowledge is the

basic foundation. And off that foundation of walking into a room and you look first, you observed it. You know what I mean? You listen and you respected it. You know what I mean? That's part of my, you know, spiritual affirmation, I guess, that's your question. And my surety, of my movements. So what does that mean for you now that you're 55? Right. So now power power. Power power.

That's truth on top of truth. That's why I'm talking like this now. I wouldn't even have spoke like this because I would have kept it more personal, right? Like even when I just said to you earlier about, yo, they told me that they shut the door on me, yo. And they apologize to that. And I'm cool with that. I remember I told one of my peers he was like, yo, yeah, I sabotage your whole shit. Yeah, you kind of fucked me up for like a week.

Guess it? I believe that you're speaking of the infamous Hot 97 summer stage incident. See, I was in Europe at that time. So. Actually, yeah, you guys wasn't in Europe. I mean, we were living in Europe for like six months, six to seven months, especially during the summer. So, but so basically an incident happened in Hot 97 that rubbed them the wrong way.

and they were basically like, we're not playing you guys anymore? Yeah, basically, first of all, we were sabotaged, which is cool. That's stuff, fights, fights. You know, it's like the five heartbees. Remember before they came out, the guy was like, this next band said they're better than the temptations? Oh, they try to monkey wrench it, right?

And, yo, at the end of the day, you know, a couple of members spoke up on that, on the spot. Fuck that. Yo, fuck y'all. You, right? Because at the end of the day, one of the members was like, yo, fuck hot 97. On the mic to the crowd. Let's get the crowd to chance.

Yeah. Yeah, it goes like fuck hot 97. Right. So they took that personal. But in reality, Wu Tang built Hot 97. True. Okay. So all of a sudden, you're trying to tell us that we got to do this, change that.

When we're the one that brought to your audience. Right. The audience is the proof of the pudding is that we got 30,000 kids in front of us. Right, not just from a summer jam. You're a tour a raise against the machine. So we are still that power magnetic to audiences. And yet you're not spinning our music because we didn't hit you with a hook. My first song didn't have no hook.

We was going to hit you with a hook when we were ready to hit you with a hook. Protecting neck had no hook. We want triumph. This is lyricism. But when they pull the plug, it's a chain reaction, though. They just, first of all, that's our biggest, New York was the biggest market. Right. And it's also a trend setting market.

Right. And then Emmis at the same time had sister stations. So, yo, we pull it here. We pull it here. And Homeboy, over here. We're going to pull it over here too. Right. And that's all good.

Like I said, the funny thing about it is, you know, as is it's now explained to me or even apologize or even admitted to. I just, like I said, I'm so naive. Like I said, I was probably fucked up for like a week. And it ain't mean nothing to me. You know what I mean? Because it never governed. what I was doing never made me be who I am.

That's something that artists sometimes lose faith. Well, and you were outsiders anyway. So it's not like... It's not like... It didn't matter. You existed because you found ways to get in without the mainstream. Right. Right.

And also, the add to that, we also existed because we were us. Right? It's almost like, look, most people are not going to be able to get the $1,200 charn tables. You know what I mean? They get to spend. They got to, like, you got to work up to that. Jim and I. Yeah, you might not even know what that is.

Right, right. So it's just like, yo, I'm okay. I'm okay being rare. I'm okay being like, you got to come over here to get that. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clever Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw,

unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country

girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care, so they take matters into their own hands.

I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I don't you.

What's up, everyone? I'm Ego Vodam. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever.

I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit.

If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a count. A calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to thanks, Dad, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating. draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more,

follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. In 2023, former bachelor star Clayton Eckerd found himself at the center of a paternity scandal. The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story. This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth. You doctored this particular test twice in silence, correct? I doctored the test once. It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case. I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for. Sunlight's the greatest disinfected. They would uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Gregalespian and Michael Maranini.

My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trap. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at Amaricopa County as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges. This isn't over until justice is served in Arizona. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the IHeartrepped podcast on the IHeartreport.

radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Here's the strange connection between you and I. That Rage Tour, we wound up replacing you guys on the Rage Tour. I got it. I didn't know that. Number one, that literally changed our lives. Like, that helped me buy a house. Wow.

Which subsequently helped me buy equipment. then help me buy, you know, help me make things fall apart. Like literally, you know, at that time, we were sort of living hand to mouth, gig to gig, you know, we're cool this week. We're going to be broke next week. Hopefully a gig comes in. Oh, we got a gig. We'll make it. But that was the first time that we were able to sustain monetarily, at least.

Consistency. That helped. Yeah, that helped in ways you don't even imagine. So that was a blessing to me. But in hindsight, I always wonder because, you know, you guys are Beatles and are Rolling Stones. So it's like, do you wish that you guys had seen that tour all the way through? Because I would imagine that you guys would have just toured the world and really it would have been just another level, a higher level of madness for you guys. Yeah, that was a big.

I'm happy how it turned out. No, of course, no, bong, bong. That's why I'm here right now, literally, that that changed my life. But from your perspective, do you wish that you, like, saw that tour through? First of all, I'm glad that, as you tell me that, I didn't know that, that our error, because we made an error that was wrong for us not to complete that tour. You know what I mean? It was a miscalation by the crew, right? Not to, not to do that.

And at the end of the day, that's the alphaness of woe. If you really look at it, the promise was given to me in 1992. This is 1997. The time is up. Okay? And it was asked in a democratic way. First of all, it was happening like even without, like, on some nights of that tour, you may see only five of us there.

And so it was already starting to be like, yo, brothers come in and out when they, when they was filling it, you know what I mean? But then it was like, yo, do we want to, I think we want to, I think, was in Chicago was like, do you want to stay on the tour or not? And we took a vote and brothers wanted off, right? Do you think that that whole experience was just jarring for them to get to that level? Do you think that there was just a fear of seeing it through or was it just too much? Because my first night of that shit, I was scared to death.

Like all those kids jumping in, what the fuck is this? I think in hindsight, I've heard some of the brothers bring that up. Like maybe there was some type of fears in somebody. the plan was this. We tour with Rage in the summer. Right. And then we hit the colleges during the homecoming season.

Mm-hmm. Right. But I think the crew wanted to go home first. They wanted to fill the, the black love first when we dropped the new album.

Right. They wanted to start there. I was like, no, don't start there because that's what we left forth at. Right. So let's start here. and then come back around. To get the international first and then come.

And the disconnection of those type of big concerts, especially when you're young, right? Those big concerts, if you're not, like, how can I explain this? Look, some artists need to, like, have their leg touched by the person in that thousand cedar. Right. They need to smell it.

Work your way up. Yeah. And some artists could fucking sit in the middle, of the stage empty on a stool with 30,000 people in front of them and just play their guitar and hit you with the Janice Jopla.

You know what I mean? Right. And so, in us, we have that mix of those who would be that way. Like, you know, I'm probably more of a, I'm probably the rock and roll energy of the crew.

You know what I mean? In the sense of that, meth is also the stadium energy of the crew. Right. All the guys are more like, yo, I'm going to knock you out street, hustler, club of the crew. Right. So because of that type of energy at that point in our lives, you know, 25 years old, 26 years old, whatever,

I think that it may have been some type of, I don't know, I don't use the word fear, but definitely uncomfortability. But I will say this and I said it a hundred times and I'll say it again. It was an error. I want to circle your whole career, but I have to know the night that you made protect your neck. one, how long did that session take? And two, how did you determine the sort of format of the song? Because, you know, you got has eight bars and old dirty has 24 bars and Zaza has 24, but Ghost Ass 16.

Like, how did you measure and plan that out? Like, as far as the order's concerned and no hook or none of that stuff? Well, it was a two-day session, actually. That was one of those songs where you got to come back to the studio. Right. Okay. In fact, Ghost went home and rewrote his verse. There's another version with a different verse?

Yeah, well, at the time he was also, Ghost was going through, Ghost was also evolving. Right. Right. Dirty was evolved. Jizzle was evolved. You know what I mean? Neth and Deck and Ray.

Ray was so amazing, right, but Ray didn't have a lot of bars written. He had stopped writing for some years. kind of interesting. But I just know Ghost was like, you know, because he's from Stableton, they're from Park Hills. So he was like,

I got to go back and come with my Stableton shit, right? Jers are coming from Brooklyn, dirty coming from Brooklyn. So it's like you had that competition, right? But for me, I kind of had a knowledge of their voices as instruments, right? And then also had the knowledge of the potency of the Lurie. To be quite frank, yeah, I edit,

I edit some shit. go. Got it. You know what I mean? To be quite frank, I was like, boom, boom, chop that. Chop that. Now that now that I got the structure, now this go kill it.

You see what I'm saying? Got it. Because really, Deck had probably 24 bars. Right? And to be straight with you, Quest. So do you have a version of the song in which it's the complete? The original, the original protect your neck really was an expect of,

the deck track that we had recorded prior called, It's Not Your Average Flow. Okay. And so what happened was I had that track and we was like, yo, let's take that track to the studio. That beat was killing, let Deck kill that. I'm gonna make that the joint. But in the studio, I was like, nah, nah.

And that actually took the sample out of it. And we made the whole track from scratch and like, and realized, which is interesting, I would say this to you, I took the samples out and I just played the baseline and then took all the little samples and just was like doing it like that more like versus. Manually. Yeah, doing it manually. And the reason why you won't find a version of that because there's only a 16 track

a machine at that time we had. And so therefore, you got two guys on the same track. It's just like the hook is on another track that dirty is going to come on that same track and there's no other place to put that at. there's the other people to put my curses or the blocks or the curses. Like it's like, I don't have enough to do it. Right.

Yeah. But, you know, I'm quite sure you probably had a four-track growing up as well. I love that dirtiness. So I still collect four, eight-track machines and cassettes. Like, I vow, like, one day, Tarika and I are going to make the record that we used to make it. Like, we used to always make albums in our bedroom,

you know, before we got a deal and all that stuff. But I still dream of making. making just the dirtiest stinkingest sonic sounding record. Like, that's my dream. Well, let me ask a quick question if you don't mind. I know, first of all,

let me just say thank you for inviting me to the podcast. Glad we found time to do it. Thank you. This should be my second or third visit. I was waiting for you, man. I was patient. You guys accredited,

and I think I can't find another physical form of it. I know that SEPTA Sonic called themselves the hip-hop band, but you guys are really the first official hip-hop band. I know the Fugis may have a little bit of say-so and some of that cheese as well, but you guys are the first official.

I just want to know my question to you is like, you know, coming up as a musician, you came up as a drummer, am I correct? Yes, started as a drummer. So what was like, yeah, the cheat as like, yo, I'm a drummer. It ain't no sampler. I'm going to play the drums

and we're going to make a fucking hip-hop album. What was in your mind? What's weird, and I'm not even blowing smoke or whatever, but you and Dilla taught me shit about the drums because the thing is that, you know, especially with black drummers after the Richard Nixon era.

Now, before the Richard Nixon era, what you had was you had migrants of families moving to the Midwest, Ohio, Indiana, Chicago, Detroit, they had these great factory jobs that enabled them to buy houses and in these houses, of course, garage bands are starting in the garage, in the den,

schooling, you learned an instrument. And then all that shit got cut in 1973, of course, and that's where hip-hop culture starts. And what happens around like, I'll say like, 81, 82, the true place that a black musician could express themselves was the church. You know? And what's weird is that if every musician you know in your neighborhood is at church waiting for their chance to get, you know, there'd be eight drummers, five keyboard players, five guitars, and they're all waiting in the wings. Like, when's my turn? When's my turn? What starts to happen is this, this, where we are with Soul now, like, The reason why you can't find a group of black musicians to play like Al Jackson and the Stacks house band sort of like, because I always wondered like, yo, don't musicians now know that if you record some shit,

like when I record some shit on record some shit on record, I want to underplay it so that way future Rizzes, future Dillis, future whoever, I mean, it could be Tyler the creator, that they'll be like, that's the part I want to sample. But what happens is church musicianship made it this evil-kneville shit where it's like, I got to show you that I can play my ass off in eight seconds. Right, right. This whole, you know what I mean?

And it's like, we're used to it now because every musician is a church drummer. But for me, I wanted to sound like the stacks box set that really set your legacy. I too wanted to sound like that And I'm talking about the filler cuts Fish

Knowledge God The way them drums sound so dirty Like that's what I was I'm like this is This there's feeling to it You know what I mean Until that Phase of hip hop came

In 90, 91, 92, 93 Like the Renaissance period of hip hop came Right Like for me I thought Damn, man. Like, I got to keep up with these other, like, daredevils. Okay, the question I always wanted to ask you, of all your work, like, you know how when you purchase a classic hip-hop album, like, when shit comes out, like, classic shit, like, the day that Longley the King came out. And Tariq and I are, like, in my house together, like, staring at the speaker, having listening sessions and almost discussions as each song goes by.

like especially on the tour of bus, nothing paralyzed me more than verbal intercourse. What happened was Dirty was in Stockholm, Sweden. He did a show that Friday night or that Saturday and left behind in the dressing room, the purple tape. Mind you, we have been living in Europe. like going through the shit. And this is before the internet and all that shit. So we were literally living off of

brand new being is everything is everything. The main ingredient by P. Rock and Seal Smooth. To Cal, it was like five cassettes that kept us alive, insane, during that whole like run. And he had a pre-copy of Cuban links, which was like, yo, we could have cried tears of joy.

Like, we got new hip hop. Like, can't believe this. Because, mind you, we're in Europe. It's not like, yeah, it's hard. Dude, when we got to verbal intercourse, we had to stop the tape. It's like, yo, are they allowed to just rhyme over people talking like that?

Like, what the fuck? For our listeners, they don't know. The emotions, if you say it, you might as well do it. The beginning loop is literally like Wanda Hutchinson, ding, ding, ding, ding. I don't want to love him. But what if he hurts me? And like literally it was rule breaking.

We had like a 20-minute discussion like, wait a minute, are they allowed to rhyme over people talking? It was almost like we wanted to take y'all to deposition court to see if that was allowed in the world of music. Now we have equipment that can erase vocals and just, you know, all that shit. But what were you thinking when you looped that shit? well, by the time we got to that point of Cuba links, I think lyricism and our ego and our ability to hear from all the other songs we've created and all the things that we now showed to the world

was getting to a higher level. What I mean by that is that at one point, no, you couldn't rhyme why somebody else was talking because you couldn't even consciously do it. Right. Okay. But now our mastery of space and cadence is there, right? So until I make a beat, I'll rhyme to it first, right?

So I know it could be wrong. To show them that you're able to do it? Yeah. Whether I do it to them in a space or whether I just do it, I make sure that it can be rhymed to. That's the reason why I made it, right? So by that time we got to there, the, but what if he, I want to love him?

But what it think? It's like, it was, to me, it was like, that was part of the beat. And I just added very weird snares. The problem with that track was, because it wasn't, there was no problem. No, I'm saying the problem as a producer for me, right? Right. It wasn't really, it was unquantizable. I know.

Okay, right. So if you look at it, the kick, you can't make a beat on a beat machine with it. You got to hit sit there and hit the fucking sit every fucking, fucking time on the track. So you took the quantizer off? Yeah, fuck the quantizer. Here's the thing, though. So in the first album, I was like, all right, y'all, is there is a goddamn genius?

Or did he just read the first three pages of the manual and decided to wing the way? We had a term called the accidental tourist. Right. In making our first album, you know, I would have to play to a click track and sort of fluctuate. and then, you know, my producer, Rich would be like, ah, man, do that pass again. That wasn't right. And I was like, no, man, like, you know, accidental tourists. You know, that's hip-hop.

He's like, nah, man, like, we ain't doing a woo shit, like, perfect that shit. And, you know, for the longest, I was looking for an excuse to just break the rules. A good example is Johnny Taylor has a break called, you think I do it. which has a break at the beginning. It's on ultimate beats and breaks. And it's so sloppy in the beginning. And like, that's what I was trying to inch towards. And for you, especially with the sloppiness of everything,

like for me, that just gave me the green light. Because the crazy thing is that for me, I always know the time. Right? Because it's my time. I remember we was hanging and had a couple of chicks with me. One knew me since high school. So she knew she says I was 14 years old. Right.

And then some other dudes there, they're trying to show up. They knew how to play the piano all nice and all this shit, right? And they got out there and they was doing their little R&B sucker shit. I called the sucker shit back then, now I'm cool with it. Because we mature. All right. Then I jump on it. Then I do my shit, right?

And yet the chicks felt what I was doing interesting, right? But then the one chick was like, he has no tempo. And the chick that knew me said, no, he's always been. been on his own time. Like, and when I say that, so if you listen to Brain the Rockets, bro, I'm hitting every snail on Brain the Rockets. Jesus Christ, it's like,

I feel like there's gunshots and... Yeah, and for me, it's almost like, I thought that a sound time could be changed at any moment based on the pulse. You feel me? So if I go, uh-huh, that's that, right?

But if I go, uh-huh, or the post is changing the time. Okay. So since that's possible, I could post where the fuck I want to post. And it would change the time. That's why I'm bringing the work is when ghost goes one way.

But then in the middle of a sound, it changes in the middle of the ball. Ray goes, it changes, and it doesn't really make sense until the hook comes. And then when debt comes on, now it's in the groove. But then Zezer goes out of the groove. By the time he goes,

I'm more rubber than slave man boots, New v. Cruz. I'm fucking up emcee, shoes, and break, Bampan sample shit without stomp. Right. He said since the day he recorded it, to every time we perform,

he don't want to perform, he said, you, God, I never could catch that time you put there. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clever Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends.

I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no.

I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, everyone?

I'm Ego Vodom. My next guest, you know from Stepbrothers, Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo-woo, whoo, who, who, who. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with him one day, and I was like, and dad, I think I want to really give this a shot.

I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up-and-coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration.

It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft, and we've got a special guest.

The director of the NFL's East-West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galko, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar, this is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. In 2023, former bachelor star Clayton Eckerd found himself at the center of a paternity scandal. The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story. This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth. You doctored this particular test twice in someone's, correct? I doctored the test ones. It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case. I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for.

Sunlight's the greatest disinfected. They would uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg Alespian and Michael Marantini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trap. Laura, Scottsdale Police.

As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at Americopa County as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges. This isn't over until justice is served in Arizona. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So the question I have for you is the day that the Grave Digger's album comes out, Philadelphia legendary DJ Cosmekev tells me like, yo, he predicted that shit was going going to go gangbusters.

Like, shout out to my man G. From Jersey, who were all heavy with, we're promoting you guys. Like, they wanted him to play, of course, nowhere to run, nowhere to hide and all that stuff. But why didn't you guys release bang your head as a single? Because that shit to me was just like,

that was the single. That could have brought you guys over the top. That's crazy you said that. Because at the time, right, no mobile has it. Yes. Okay. So I think biohazard was really bubbling, right?

In fact, the grave diggers was doing dates with biohazard just to let you know. Okay. I think that in a way it was, it was the rock energy that scared the label, right? When you got, because you got, you got Fruquan, Prince Rakeem, or the Rizzo at the time, you got poetic, you got Prince Paul, right? You got hip hop. They called it a super group at the time, right? Mm-hmm. And also, I think that the label wanted to chase the wool, right?

And so, I just think it was a miscalculation. They was trying to chase the rules. So with the sample, nowhere to run through, through suicide. It's like we're chasing that. Where bang your head is almost, you know, what the fuck that is? And it's just, it was just a ball of energy. but I do think that the grave diggers were such an awkward style of hip hop I mean it wasn't it was almost like it wasn't a lot of emcees

going there like that you know I mean they called the horror supergroups or horrorcore yeah we felt that that song would have brought that to the legitimate yes like we heard about horrorcore but we felt that that song was going to be the the flag planning song that really would have set that off. And it never came to fruition. And I always wanted to know why. Because I used to play that relentlessly. That used to be my first record when I would DJ.

And they didn't get with that. But you know it's so crazy, though? I would say one thing, it never fell at a live show. When we got on, when we did that shit, it was fucking. I even remember Evan from Biohazard, like, wanting to come join and like the energy that that that shit used to bring was crazy. I have a theory about when people upgrade their like instruments or whatever. What exactly happened as far as the flooding is concerned of your original studio?

And is that sort of why the chapter ends with, I mean, I guess you could say liquid swords or not, you know, because the sound of Wu-Ting Forever, was night and day. It was a more polished sound. But what exactly happened flooding-wise that stopped you from using that particular equipment? First of all, cubling links, liquid swords,

maybe two or three tracks off an iron man. Because after that, because what happened was once I did Takal, I didn't want to go back to the studio no more. I don't like how Takal came out. I tell you why. Why?

Why, even now? No, I didn't like how it came out. I mean, I loved it, but I didn't like it, but I didn't love it. I put it that way. Because I had an engineer that tried to go by the books. I had to fight to get the sound. To do that way. If you listen to, I get my thing in action, if you just turn down one fatal, bro, the whole beat falls apart.

But you got to know that. And the engineer don't know that. And remember, back in those days, we're not really touching the boards as we. They won't let you touch the board. You got to fight to touch the board. You got to send that dude to the store or something. You know what I mean? But by the time we got to, I got your back, right?

And then you go to Cuba Links and Liquid Sports. It's my own studio. It's my house. I got every compressor already preset to their voices. I checked the compressor. I knew that I wanted his voice like that, right? Everybody got their own settings. The two inches here.

The speakers, I had KRKs, but I have the bigger ones, which was pretty weird place, but made sense back then. Right. And when the flood came, it wiped it out, right? The two-inch machine, the board still lived. The hardware, all that felt, you know what I mean? And then I had to finish Iron Man inside a studio. which is called Mystic Studios. So now I'm in a studio again,

and I'm dealing with the studio fucking chamber. So on some of the IMA, you got some original sound, but on some other you can see, like, okay, it's changing. And then by the time you get to Wu-Tang forever, oh, no, we build a new studio, and we record in L.A. at the same time. So now we ping ponging. But I would challenge this to you for your ear

if you get a chance and maybe we can talk about it next week. Listen to Cappadonna south of the border. Okay. Right? And let me know,

does that remind you of the sound from 93, 94, 95? Because to me, that was like my last time like setting my parameters up to that. You know what I mean? Sampling at 22.1 or 17.9 like changed my sample bit.

It was like the last time I did it. And I was like, man, And we played it in the office for the staff. Everybody was like, you need to make more of those. Like, that's the sound. That's the unique Wu-Tang sound that the world is used to versus run, which I said, no, I like run. Which was, run was the Cursewell sampler.

It wasn't the ASR 10. You know what I mean? So I was kind of moving over to Cursewell, like you said, upgrading my shit. But, yeah. Well, brother, I appreciate you. even let me get this far. God willing, we will continue with our talk with the one and only Rizza, the abbot of Wutang Clan. Thank you very much, brother. Brother, peace. Bambong.

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