The Questlove Show - Questlove Supreme: Sananda Maitreya Part 2

Episode Date: July 31, 2024

In Part 2 of Questlove's one-on-one interview with Sananda Maitreya, the esteemed guest details his personal and professional transformation. The creator of this year's The Pegasus Project: Pegasus & The Swan highlights some songs from the album, including "Walk On" with Jellybean Johnson. The post-millennium rocker also speaks about making his home in Milan, Italy, an affinity for Jean-Michel Basquiat, and so much more.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media.

Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clivert Show on the I-Hard Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. I'm Daniel Alarcon, and this is my friend. This is much more famous than I am. I wouldn't go that far. But I'm John Green, co-host of the podcast The Away End with my old friend Daniel. On our podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup.

Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the Away End with Daniel Auerkone and John Green on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's Financial Literacy Month, and the podcast, Eating While Broke, is bringing real conversations about money, growth, and building your future. This month, hear from top streamer, Zoe Spencer, and venture capitalist Lakeisha Landrum Pierre, as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up. There's an economic component to communities thriving. If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they fail. Listen to Eating While Broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is Amy Roboc alongside TJ Holmes from the Amy and TJ podcast.

And there is so much news, information, commentary coming at you all day and from all over the place. What's fact, what's fake, and sometimes what the F. So let's cut the crap, okay? follow the Amy and T.J. Podcast, a one-stop news and pop culture shop to get you caught up and on with your day. And listen to Amy and T.J. on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. On a recent episode of the podcast Money and Wealth with John Hobriant, I sit down with Tiffany the budgetista Aliche to talk about what it really takes to take control of your money. What would that look like in our families if everyone was able to pass on wealth to the people when they're no longer,

We break down budgeting, financial discipline, and how to build real wealth, starting with the mindset shifts. Too many of us were never, ever taught. If you've ever felt you didn't get the memo on money, this conversation is for you to hear more. Listen to Money and Wealth with John Hope Bryant from the Black Effect Network on the I'd Heart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Questlove Supreme is a production of IHeartRadio. All right. Welcome back to Questlove Supreme. It's me, Questlove. You know, a few times the season, me and Team Supreme often do these special one-on-one episodes. Today's guest, Sananda Matreya, it wasn't planned as a one-on-one, but due to scheduling and life and whatnot, just having to turn out that way. Of course, I was thrilled about it because it allowed me to have a discussion with someone that I admired and called an inspiration. And in this interview, we learned that we have a lot of stuff in common. And this is pretty much. part two. So if you have it, please check out part one where we speak about Sanandis growing up,

his appreciation for Rod Stewart, even as time as a boxer. All right? Enjoy. I always wanted to know when you're turning in the tapes for neither fish nor flesh, which I feel is your real first album. Yeah, me too. Because your first album is just your life experience up into that point. Yeah. And you're feeling your way out. And yeah, of, Of the two, I choose the latter. When you're turning that in, what is Donnie's response? What is Tommy's response? What is the brass's response?

Okay, first of all, let me say some interesting things that goes down with this. First of all, it's uncanny because, in fact, I mentioned that quite a few times for this particular project as I were promoting it. That, and it's the truth, the first album felt like the finale of a life that I was meant to finish. Your old life. Yes. Let me just see if I can explain this. See if you can keep track for me. I do believe in,

it doesn't matter what we call them. I do believe in Spheres of Angels and other things. I do believe we are in this multidimensional, interactive experience, overlapping dimensions and all kinds of stuff. And of course, it's real. It's real.

It's got all of this capacity, but we're only focused on where it is on the dial right now, and that's our frequency of focus. So we are not aware that there's all these other frequencies going on as well. So for me, that's important because when I was 18 years old, I had an experience where I was home from basic training from the military. And my old room obviously had been moved into and taken over by a younger sibling.

So I slept in the den, the TV room. And I had a dream that night. I'll never forget, it was December 8th. I was home for two weeks from basic training before getting reassigned. to my first posting in Fort Sill, Oklahoma. And I had this dream that, like I said, my very first movie I can remember seeing was Breakfast at Tiffany's.

And in the dream, the age I was 18, I'm standing in front of Tiffany's department store in New York. It's really early morning. And I see this figure, familiar figure, walking towards me. And as he gets closer to me, I recognize more and more. And his smile gets bigger and bigger and bigger. And at one point I go, oh shit, that's John Lennon.

And I'll never forget, he was wearing a white shirt, some blue jeans and his hat, and his granny glasses. And as he gets close to me, he looked like he was so happy to see me. He stuck out his hand. And as I stuck out in my hand, he went straight through me, okay? These are my first, first, first heroes for foul influence. So I get up that morning and my mother says to me, when she sees me that morning, did you hear what happened? I said, what? She says John Lennon was killed.

last night. Oh. I said, what? She said, yeah, he was shot in New York. And I said, Mom, I dreamt that he walked into me. So again, here's my take on these things. If I agree to take some of your, what you're leaving behind, I'm sure there were quite a few people on his list. Yeah, I'm going to leave you a little bit of this beetle magic. I'm going to leave you a little bit. But you can't take that without taking the burden as well. So he had issues with his mom. He had issues a lot of issues, you have to take some of that shit on as well, because that was also what made him him. Right. So I say that because, first of all, I believe that these overlapping experiences where that

first album felt like me and John were finishing something, okay, his car, something maybe he or whatever. I like your filter. I would like to work through you. Perfect. I'm your pen. Let's do it. And it felt like I had stepped out of something.

that I was just always destined to step out of and into and out of. But I agree with you that neither fish no flesh for me, and it was the most exciting time I've ever had making a record because I could just feel, in retrospect, the roots of Pulsin and Iraq began there. And finally, I was able to, you know, Mozart, the last thing he said was he had gotten a commission to be a church capelmeister, and all they commissioned from him

with like two or three pieces a year. So he would have had all of his chance, all this time to compose. And he said something to the fact, damn, I was just getting ready to compose the music I really wanted to make. And you think like, fuck, if Mozart feels that way,

or Haydn, Haydn's last words being, I was finally learning how to write for horns. You know what I mean? I mean... That was his last words? Apparently, you know. Apparently. I'm not done yet.

Wow. Yeah. So I do agree with you that it felt like the breakthrough that that was. Now, here's another situation was that before I went into the studio to make that record, the president of Columbia, CBS England, Paul Russell, pulled me into his office and wanted to show me all these demographic surveys that basically said that, though I hadn't sold as many records as Michael, or anyone else, that I had ticked literally every demographic box that they even keep track of,

and that they'd never seen that before, and it freaked them out. So that let me know one thing right there. I was seen as a political figure, because, as you know, I don't have to be singing about politics if my music is bringing people together across the divides that are placed there artificially to keep people from. So if I'm bringing the bikers and grandmothers and 13-year-olds and academic, and all these people that they keep. People start in power start to look at that and go,

hmm, okay. Plus, they didn't have enough time to vet me. I just shot off like a rocket. You didn't think that was just due to, let's maximize. If anything, like, I could have sworn that they were like, okay, this is someone that will, I don't want to say the word of replace, but, you know, record execs feel like,

this is the person that will replace my, as the new... That's all connected. That's all connected. So that's why this is very intriguing because when we do the book, I'll have time to extrapolate, you know, all of this information, look at it in depth because everything is connected. And I'm trying to keep a hold of the thread myself. The point is, is that they knew who Michael was. So whatever he was guilty or not guilty of, they would have known. They knew who he were. He had been vetted. His whole life, he had been vetted. They knew who he was. They knew what to take them motivate him. They knew what to take them. manipulate them. They didn't have that info

me yet because I came up too quick. I get it. You know the corporation's not going to get in front of money while the money's printing itself. They'll wait for the money to reset before they go, okay, now do we want to continue? Who is this motherfucker? Who is this kid? Okay. But Paul Russell brought me into his office and he said, I just want you to know that the first two million records you bought

when you sold were genuine to genuine music fans. He says, after this, you become a cultural phenomenon and people are not buying the record for the music. People are buying the record because it's part of their cultural identity of the moment that you can't say you're cool if you don't have this on your coffee table if someone walks into your living room. Have you heard the song? Oh yeah, yeah, I've been there, done that. It becomes that kind of thing. He actually said to me, don't expect your next record or next couple records to follow the same formula. It won't. He said because those people will come back to you. But the history of England, especially,

They won't come back to you to your third or fourth project, okay, because you're going to have to pay for this success. Wait, was he telling you that you were too successful? He was basically saying I wasn't going to have that type of success again anytime soon because at one point it went beyond being a musical thing and became becoming a cultural phenomenon that then developed steam as that goes beyond the music. So those people, the next time, you don't get those people to come right back. Let me ask you an important question then. And this is kind of the theme of the slide film. Is success as traumatic or more traumatic than failing is? Look, the bottom line is this.

We all have to be responsible for the energy that we create. There are no exceptions. Society may give us a free pass based on its affection for us or our image. But karma is real. And law is simple. We all have to be responsible for the energy. we create those who are capable of creating energy. That's just the way the universe police is itself.

So the bottom line is I was going to have to pay for that sojourn, regardless of whether I had wound up on this side or that side, because there is no free lunch. Everything has a price, and you either pay in advance or you pay on the back end. I didn't have to pay in advance, well, at least as far as the industry was concerned. So I had to pay on the back end. But there was also genuine fear because I was just, genuine. I really believe that I was given the power of transformation, and I could help,

as George Harrison said, people say, you know, think for yourself. We understand that the state, Mount Olympus, creates us demigods in order to program the people as to what is expected of them, or how they expect it to be in order to be members of a society, a governed society, a civilization, a community. So obviously, it is not in the best interest of any kind of organization with power. to promote the power of someone who was not in turn promoting them. A team player, yeah. You know, that makes sense. I mean, I can't be that naive.

Like, they came up against me. I wasn't trying to bring down the building. You know, I was just saying, look, I'm who I am and I'm not changing for some bullshit. I'm not going to become a black artist for you, bitches. I won't. You can argue for days how black a person I am. I have no beat with none of that, whatever.

But I will never consent to being a black artist because you know and I know what that means. And you know that unless you were Stevie Wonder and you had all of Motown telling you do what the hell you wanted, you know exactly how limiting and handcuffing that was. So I was never interested in being a black artist. I was never interested in helping the establishment restabilize the image.

They were comfortable black people emulating, black guys emulating. You don't want black dudes as the Maverick. And plus, we only pay lip service to the Maverick. because it's a useful promotional image. We don't really support Mavericks, but we'll support the image of one as long as we can control or we can collaborate on what it is you're doing.

But that's not a question for everyone in question. Not everybody gives a shit. Not everybody has any ambition other than to be famous, make great music and whatever. And I don't hold them responsible for anything that I feel responsible for. But for me, I understood that I was not going to be yet the next cog in a machine

you know, that determines how people are to behave to respond what parts of themselves are acceptable, what parts are unacceptable, and what the establishment is comfortable embracing you as. I just felt like I had many ancestors saying, you don't have to do that. We did that. We were not happy.

This is why we're pushing you, you stubborn asshole. This is why we've made you so stubborn, because it's imperative that now, as you have a chance to turn this wheel, you must turn this wheel. Because what we do is of consequence. You don't know the people born. The people might not even be born who you're setting up their life for. But you must do this because I was enamored of the belief that if I didn't do it, the music that I've been able to contribute wouldn't possibly be made by anyone else in particular,

but as that which came through my particular filter. And, you know, I'm grateful that you mentioned even DeAngelo, who I have to say that I'm extremely proud of. A few years ago, I was in Sweden. And the Swedish journalist reminded me that I said to him 25, 30 years ago what I was going to do. And he said, my God, you've done it. You've done it. And he mentioned another artist. He said another artist, he mentioned DiAngelo.

He said, DeAngelo has also continued to resist caricaturing himself and just continuing to grow and expanding that thing because again, I don't care how many credentials you have or what kind of journalist you call yourself. You don't tell the music what it is. The music tells you. You don't say, oh, this isn't jazz. Fuck you. Jazz isn't dead. Nothing's dead. Jazz is still writing chapters and verses. Rock is still saying, no, no, on this. Hip hop, as you're clear, is still ever expanding. You don't say, no, that's not hip hop. That's not country to me. Well, it's not a country to you. But country tells you. But country tells you. me what country is. I understood that it was imperative that one of us, one of us had to get out

ahead of that thing this time and not feel the burden that Prince and Michael felt and others felt to maintain that other pillar that they represented. And, you know, this is why I've also said to people as well, as much of a pain in the ass it was to come behind Michael and Prince, what a stroke of tremendous fortune to be as creatively inspired and curious as I have been blessed to be, and to be behind two bona fide fucking geniuses. These cats were for real. These guys were giants. And you were either going to shrink, like, you know, coming after the Beatles, or you saw

it as your license, there's no excuse not to just keep pushing this thing when you've come behind two groundbreaking lifetime achievement type dudes like Prince and Michael. But Michael was involved in this because also by the time he inherited the Beatles' skyline, Another great irony is that the very music that woke me up in this life, the Beatles, when Michael got a hold of it, that was the very music that kind of killed the battery charge on that life. It was like, okay, boom. Too much power. Who am I to say too much power?

He had power. And then, of course, the game began when he got the catalog because Sony knew they wanted to go in business with him. So basically, whatever you want, Michael, fuck. You want this guy? Is this guy a pain in your ass? No problem. Because before he bought the Beatles catalog, the question they had to ask him was, okay, but Michael, can you replace his sales and yours?

I don't know. But when he had that catalog and Sony's half, even in the 90s, was already over half a billion a year. And forgetting that, it wasn't just, not forgetting, it wasn't just the Beatles catalog. The Beatles songs were the jewel of that catalog. He also had all of Slide stuff. and all the little Richard stuff.

He had 100 country music number one hits. That was a copiously fat, thick docket. So from that point onwards, you know, it was like, yeah, they gave him, he wasn't very comfortable with me. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clever Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories, that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. I'm John Green. You may know me as the author of The Fultonar Stars, and now I guess also is the co-host of the away end, a brand new world soccer podcast. I'm Daniel Alarcon, a writer and journalist, and John and I have known each other since we were kids.

My first World Cup was Mexico 86. I was nine years old. I watched every game, and I fell in love. On our new podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. For us, soccer, football, is a story we've shared for over 30 years since Daniel was the star player on our high school soccer team. Very debatable. And I was there most loyal and sometimes only. only fan. I love this game. I love its history, its hope, its heartbreak, and above all,

it's beauty. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Alarcon and John Green on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On a recent episode of the podcast, Money and Wealth with John Hobriant, I sit down with Tiffany the Bucconista Aliche to talk about. about what it really takes to take control of your money. What would that look like in our families if everyone was able to pass on wealth to the people when they're no longer here?

We break down budgeting, financial discipline, and how to build real wealth, starting with the mindset shifts. Too many of us were never, ever taught. Financial education is not always about, like, I'm gonna get rich, that's great. It's about creating an atmosphere for you to be able to take care of yourself,

and leave a strong financial legacy for your family. If you've ever felt you didn't get the memo on money, this conversation is for you to hear more. Listen to Money and Wealth with John O'Brien from the Black Effect Network on the I'd Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. American soccer is about to explode. The World Cup is coming.

Ramos sending on the Army. I'm Tom Boe. I'm Tom Bo. On our podcast, Inside American Soccer, you'll get the real storylines. I'm not worried about Policic. I'm not worried about Balagan. I'm not worried about McKinney. My only concern is what happens in the back. The biggest decisions.

If you're going to look at stats and numbers, he has no shot at making this World Cup team. And the truth about the U.S. national team. It wouldn't be a huge surprise if our team ends up in the quarterfinals or potentially a great run into the semifinals. The World Cup is almost here. Experience it all with us. Listen to Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogart and Tab Ramos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcast. What's up? I'm Miles Turner.

And I'm Brianna Stewart. And our podcast, Game Recognized Game, has never been done before. Two active players giving you a real look at our lives and what we actually think, on and off the court. Nothing's off limits. We talk trade requests. What's the vibe of that when it's like your star players, like, well, I want to leave and then actually now I'm going to stay.

We talk tanking. I mean, honestly, like, I might get in trouble for this answer, but I think it's, like, definitely happening in the WBA. And yeah, we talk about our mistakes, too. They pulled me to the side and was like, hey, man, we got a call last night, man. You can't be rolling around the city like this tonight before games, no, you know, doing this, doing whatever.

And of course, family stories. They'll be like, Mommy, why did you miss that? Do you play basketball? Check out Game Recognized game with Stoian Miles on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I promise to wrap this up because trust me, like Jimmy Jam gave me seven hours. There's only supposed to be one hour and Jimmy Jam gave me seven. So I will pull out every story, but I will be succinct and wrap this up because I'm also- I had a chance to work with Jelly Bean on this project.

I did a song with Jelly Bean. Really? Yeah. I can't remember, what is his name? Walk on, walk on his name. He approached me last year and said he wanted me to participate with him if I would. I told him, look, just on principle alone, you guys were such a huge part of, you know, my situation in the time and various projects you guys worked on.

So I said, sure. So basically we wound up collaborating on this piece, and it was really cool because it was also the very last session of Ronnie Drayton. Ronnie Drayton's on this? Yeah, I was going to play the guitar solo. And then... See, I don't have liner notes. So, that's... Ah, damn. That's crazy.

We'll get you whatever you need. Because there's a gentleman named Oscar Derek Brown. He was a very, very good friend of Ronnie's. And so, basically, when he told Ronnie what I was doing, Ronnie said, oh, I want to play the solo. And when I heard, I was like, please, please, I will be honored. So it was apparently the last thing he kind of did professionally that we were aware of. And now I feel blessed to have participated with him because, you know,

He's definitely one of the unsung heroes of the time I was coming through, but his work with, like, Vernon and the Black Rock Coalition and all that. Yes, the legendary Ronnie Drayton. By the way, yeah, I didn't even get to this new album, but literally, like, nice things, Camptown. Yeah. Like, those are my, that's my shit, man. Thank you, man.

I love the time. You know, the admonishment about being careful of meeting your heroes, Bruce Springsteen has been like a big brother to me. me, Prince was, is, is still, I'm still close to him. And Miles played a pivotal role in my situation. Michael wasn't just one of those situations. It was just one of those things where... He was competitive.

I want to make this clear. Not only was he good competitive, but, but, you know, in a perfect world, he would have seen me as like a gold, like, okay, I'm going to show this month, right? And we'd have done that Beagle Stones, Who thing, where we just try to top each other, you know. I would have been here for it. I'm sorry. I would have been here for it. But, you know, by that time, he was maybe just tired, like,

look, whatever. But the point I'm trying to make is this. He didn't know me a damn thing. His life provided for my life exactly what it was meant to provide. And there's also a very, very good chance that by getting in my way, he might have spared me his fate. You literally just answered the question that I was going to ask. Yes. He might have saved my life in getting in front of me. Inefinitely. Giving me more longevity. Because, you know, I was even asked earlier in an interview, your voice, you still sound. the same as four years ago and how compared to whatever. And I said, but you know, the truth is they didn't burn me out.

They didn't have a chance to burn me out. And I said, so many of my colleagues were just burned out and it was just doing what they could to keep up with it. And, you know, when Whitney lost her voice at the end, I was so moved because I realized, you know, singers don't mature until their 40s anyway. They look out of themselves even moderately well. But I realized she hadn't lost her voice. with the sound of what you were hearing

was a woman who had lost her heart because she was all hard and the voice is just a conduit, it's just an amp it's not the guitar the guitar is the guitar the voice is the amp okay if your guitar is fuck

the strings are broken your heart is broken and you don't really want to be doing that anymore obviously it's going to show and what comes through you what comes out of you and I felt that was the thing was she wasn't just trying to destroy her voice

she was trying to destroy that life that held her bondage and just became too much. And, you know, from our Native American heritage, we don't believe in death anyway, the way it's taught in the West. And so, you know, she wasn't obliged to be with us, raggedy motherfuckers, one minute past realizing

she had done what she had come to do. She had blessed the souls in the lives. I just saw her movie. I had on a carousel for two years, question. And I just, because I had her and Aretha's life stories on the, to watch list, because I knew those lives reverberated, so close to my own that I have to be ready and prepared psychologically to digest those

stories because those stories are my stories as well. So, you know, I have forgotten how many, like, just groundbreaking records Whitney had, you know, broken and just like, wow. But it's the same with Prince. You know, you do what you come to do. And sometimes Spirit says, I will not let you be abused one second longer because a life is easy to replace. A soul is a little harder. So you know what I'm saying to you? So I feel like those were taken from us to preserve what they were and for further service because the angels recycle. You know, it's like only 12 these motherfuckers and they play all the roles that are necessary to play. As many roles as needed like a traveling Shakespearean troop where this time you're the dad, next time I'm be popper. But we all

travel together because we all know each other and we all trust each other to play these roles for us. So I have no doubt that me and Michael were very, very, very close, and that's perhaps why he fucked my shit up. Because in so doing, he spared my life. And I'm able now to have this conversation in 2024 with you, another person whose life has been greatly touched by the magic those geniuses laid down. By the way, I also am happy to hear that you, I had some influence because when you guys first came, came through. It was saying with Erica, you're not always sure if it's your vanity or your pride, but sometimes you can feel like when your spirit is a part of somebody else, it doesn't have to be anything specific. It's just a vibe. And you go like, yeah, I think these guys might have been listening to my records, you know what I?

You think? It's always reassuring when you find out that, yes, there is a family. And we, like I said before, But we do travel together and we perform the works and the miracles that we're here to perform. And we pack up the caravan and we move on to the next performance. I swear to God, man. If allowed to at least refer to that other non-deplume of yours, which was E.G. O'Reilly. Like, I was your number one disciple, like, literally for that. My closing question is your rebirth with angels and vampires? Yes.

Where you're on your own and you're out of the system. Can you just walk me through kind of your caterpillar to butterfly transition to where you are now? Because the thing was is that I just thought after, Vibrator or Wildcart was the last Sony record? Vibrator. Vibrator. Okay. So Wildcar was your first project on your own, correct? Yes.

Okay. And it was actually created. It was created. This is an interesting story. if I can. It was created for capital because I had 10 years I had spent trying to get

off of the Sony arrangement. The English had let me go. The Americans had been hanging on to it, but the English were very reluctant. It was a messy situation, but finally I got out of it. Then I was supposed to do Sam Cook

that the family, I was extremely flattered by the family said that I was the only person they wanted to play Sam. But I couldn't wrap my head around the fact that I don't care how flattered I am that you think my voice can replace Sam. If the movie

is about a legend, why would you not want to expose his voice? And I also knew that, and Sony had made the mistake of saying to my manager at the time, why is he coming to all this in their minds, all this innovative shit? All he has to do is make Sam Cook records

and we'll promote him for life. Shut up and sing and make the hits and, yeah. Yeah. And as much as I idolize Sam Cook, I don't want to be buried in his grave. And those things can be period victories where you have success. The record company pushes it. And now every gig you show up, if you don't do some Sam shit, you know, they're yelling at you, you're throwing shoes. Right. So it was a tough decision. But then I had been approached to play Sam in the Muhammad Ali film. So I had agreed because Michael Mann had really talked

me into it with the director. I have a lot of time for him, Michael. And I was going to do it. And then I get a call for Michael Mann saying, do me a favor. This was a couple of days before I was supposed to start shooting. He said, I need you to talk to Tommy Mottola because Sonny Mottola is trying to fuck with the soundtrack because I didn't know that they had the soundtrack. So basically, I had spent 10 years trying to get away from Tommy Matoa in that situation, only to find out the last minute

that if I had sung on the soundtrack, it would have belonged to Sony. And Tommy was trying to get me to sign another option that he wasn't going to release the soundtrack rights to the film until I did something for him. And so I basically said to Michael, man, I said, well, I thank you very much for this opportunity. I would rather go to hell literally with gas strapped to my back than to deal with this guy again. So I bowed out of the film.

Do you believe when I think he said this in his book, but before I read his book, he was a guest on the Tonight Show and, you know, just casual three-minute conversation. And, you know, I kind of always ask, like, is there an artist that got away or like a regret or something like that? And he said that it wasn't close to like we could have done better by him. Yeah. But he kind of, and he said in a very non-industry, you know, when someone has a prepared answer. I move that you say that because I get my, I get my guides, if you will. My spirit tells me all the time.

that there was a price that everyone had to pay who consciously went into it knowing that they were trying, because they got caught up and trying to teach me a lesson. It was like, plus the other young ones are watching, so we have to use them as an example of, you know, don't cross us. We're the biggest record corporation in the world. And, you know, CBS, Columbia,

were relative to that situation, a bit more left, liberal, and artist-friendly. Sony came in with a real, if not necessarily politically right-wing attitude, socially right-wing, the artists do what the fuck we tell them.

We don't listen to the artists. We're not Mo, Austin, at Warner Brothers. This isn't right. You know, we're not Virgin Records. The artist listens to Sony. We tell them. So it started off the wrong foot.

It was also the fact that like we were going back to neither fish, no flesh, if I could go back and do it over again, I would probably delay the release by six months because it fell in the cuss between the old regime, leaving and being taken over by the new incoming Sony regime.

So it was also one of those situations where the timing would, nothing about that situation was friendly. But as I said to you, Paul Russell, who had run the English company, had already told me to expect some different shit. But here's also another reality question that most guys, people don't realize, artists don't realize, and your manager for sure is not going to tell you.

So you go back in, you renegotiate your contract. Now you get what you should have gotten in the first place. as far as you're concerned. But what you don't realize is that part of the reason your record was so enticing is because they got it for nothing. I was signed at the lowest legally binding contract.

Minimum wage. I would literally 30,000 pounds was the lowest limit that I got signed at the time might have been 50, 40 grand, $40,000. And so what I didn't realize is it was all gravy. We didn't spend along the record

because the record was pretty, much me re-recording the demos. And so it was just all found money. What they don't tell you is you come back now, you're making serious, serious boom, boom, they got to share a lot more that over there. And now I realize to get that same money they got before, this is how much they're going to have to spend to get there. Meanwhile, what they're gambling on is that, as you've alluded to before, there's a new group, a new act that's on their first deal. This is why in the NFL, they try to maximize that rookie quarterback contract to get the team, you know, whatever they need. And it's the same.

So your manager is not going to say, no, I'm going to forfeit this big alimony check. You're about to give me to pass it on in my situation. I'm going to for, you shouldn't do this. You should stay on the same thing, but you should instead just up your points. They don't tell you that. That basically you can become a victim of your success where among the other machinations, that were happening around it, the perfect storm that I walked into, you've basically made yourself less financially viable and exploitative

simply because you're getting now a bigger piece of the pie. For you, what is a good takeaway? Because I know they're pros and I know that they're cons to the situation. Well, first of all, let me just say this about the Tommy regime. First of all, I was a Yednikov guy. I idolized Walter Yednikov because I grew up reading books that he's attracted into. I grew up reading Billboard magazine

in the school library and hearing the multi-eater call. So I knew he was. I knew his stories. I knew his history. I knew he had succeeded Clive Davis. He was a rock star to me. We hit off like he was my

Brooklyn Jewish uncle. He was that dude. He was moved that I spoke Yiddish that I lived in Germany. We just had a vibe that me and Tommy just never had. Now, here's the irony. It did occur to me later

that once again, it could have been because of Michael and getting Michael's attention that Walter decided to really push me. Because I had broken all over the world. And to be fair, to Tommy Motola, he wasn't that enthusiastic about me at any point in my career. He just thought I was just hype. Really?

Well, he wasn't a big, no, he was never there. He always thought Walter was overindulging me and blah, blah, blah. Oh, that was Walter's guy, not my guy, so okay, I get it now. Yeah, and plus when he took over, see, the thing is, between, again, my first and second records, Walter was in rehab. So Walter was in Minnesota drying out at John Hopkins. The Japanese get a call from Tommy Motola saying, hey, your boy is coked out of his mind. He's in rehab. He's, who's buying the store?

Me, Tommy Matola, I'm mine in the store. Basically, Matola was, yet Nicole's fine. He was his lieutenant. he was the one to put him in that situation. So when Matola turned around and did what he did to basically bust Yetnikov, they got the Japanese to replace him. From that point, anyway, I was, I'm a loyal dude. I mean, that was my guy, man.

Right. And now you want me to switch my loyalty to you, and you wear, like, short black socks with your, like, hair sticking out between your pants, leg, and your socks and shit looking like some Southern black dude from the 50s. And I remember him giving me a letter, a little letter, that Michael had written to me to give to me, and I could already see the writing on the wall.

Okay? Because Tommy would have still had to have support from some of the artists to get the Japanese to part ways with Yetnikov because that was Yetnikov's strong as suit, his relationship with the artist. So basically, you know, once he had secured a certain group of artist support,

he didn't, I was expendable, I was expendable to cause as they would say. But so in all fairness to him, we never really hit it off. But at the same time, when I saw what he did to Walter, I just thought, nah, this guy gives me the, as you used to say in German, gives me the eagle. I didn't feel comfortable with him.

And, of course, he fell out with Michael later as well, all that. But my take on it was this. That regime that featured Donnie Einer, Michelle Anthony, those three, they were the three big honchos. I was struck by how they had bigger egos than the artists. That they wanted to be the rock stars. And in fact, that was the generation with all due respect to him because he's worked his ass off and I know he's a great musician,

but Randy Jackson belonged to that whole regime as well. And then Randy wound up being bigger as a celebrity than the other, you know. So the point is, but that was the ethos that I was dealing with that. I never had a meeting with Donnie Einer where this motherfucker wasn't talking more by himself and what he had done than why we were there to have the meeting in the first place. And Michelle used to take me for

limo rides when I would come to New York from London and just impressed upon me how important a jewel I was in the crown, the Sony crown, right? So at one point I get annoyed with her saying this and I say, well, Michelle, which one of them diamonds are my? And by one of them like, Pavay diamonds on the back,

you know, that gets caught underneath the neck. Like you can't see them because the neck the nappy hairs, get all like, you mean I'm that part of the cron, you know, or am I one of these jewels at the middle where no matter what your hair looks like, you can see, that's this motherfucker right here. You know, and at some point she got embarrassed and stopped dropping that line on me because I didn't want to hear that. Right.

They didn't know what to do with me in the manner in which Walter did, but what they did that different than Walter was Walter's, I trust this guy's vision. He just proved something out of knowing. Oh, out of left field. I had Doug Morris, who used to run Atlantic, who up to that point, when he was trying to talk to come in with his company, he said, I had been in the business for 40 years. I've never seen anybody.

Even Elvis, nobody came through the way you did. He said, yeah, well, I pay for that because it freaked people out. And so I had to answer for all of that. And then, like I said, when they find out that you're not interested in just representing a bunch of bullshit, they're not going to be comfortable sharing their power with you because they can see who you are. And nobody's trying to upset the status quo. That's not their job.

So it's not like I don't understand. It's not like I can't come to terms with the fact that I was an inconvenient man for the time and the place. But I did what Spirit asked me to do. I laid the seeds in the ground. And I'm still reaping the world winning the benefits of them close to 40 years later. And it's what allows me to talk to you and have this conversation without having had to sell more than I was capable of remanifesting, if you will.

What's your relationship with the material, though? Like, because there's two sides of you. And is it burdensome if a fan is yelling out, like, do rain or seven more, you know? At this point, at this point, about five or six, seven years ago, I opened the whole thing back up. It was imperative upon me to lock out that part and focus on growing the garden of post-millioner rock. The other guard didn't need my help. They already had a major corporation who co-sponsors those first four records with me.

They were taking care of that. I didn't have to do that work. I just had to work the fields that I was preparing for where I am now. So for a long time, I made every sacrifice necessary to not burden people with that reality that you're coming to see me on the Earth Falls impression.

I made it clear. Even the venues that I chose to play were deliberately intended that I didn't have to feel the extra burden or pressure to sell out a place to 10,000 people or whatever. If, you know, I can only realistically get, you know, 500 people in this place based on what this town is, based on this, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm more than willing to do that while taking advantage of the fact

that the first time around I didn't spend enough time in these places anyway. So it was kind of a way for me to kill two birds with one stone. But then, of course, the time when even Sony came back and said, we are ready, if you are willing to work with us and collaborate with us on your first four projects that we call on with you, we are willing to do whatever it is that you deem necessary. And I said, well, the message has been consistent. You change everything to send under my chair, or I have no interest in working against my own interest. You know, that's already been established. So we came to those conclusions. The bottom line of changing

it was simple. At some point, you realize that the name you created, the identity that you've created, you don't own anymore. And when you're going through these struggles with them, they were never an artist-friendly company, the ones that I had these tumultuous dealings with. So they let you know, hey, you just, that's our property. And we're not, the vision you have of post-volentian rock, that's not black artist's music that we, the way we see and we want to support you. And The other thing is any industry, whether it's a film industry or music industry, is going to be hard-pressed to promote and continue to promote what they don't think they can easily replace. So if you're seen as a paradigm shifter, fine, that's all well and good from the artistic side of it,

but from the industry side of it, can we duplicate this more? Can we now mint and print this bitch? If you can't, it's not in their best interest for them to promote Citizen Kane. as a film when they've got nothing else for the next two years in their catalog in the pipeline that looks anything like Citizen King. So you learn all these lessons and you learn that if you want to go forward after two years of meditation where I was in the state of dissociation in order to survive where to the point where if you called me that old name, it might take a few seconds for me to register that you were actually talking to me in meditations and prayers. I asked the way forward.

And I was given in a series of dreams. I'm a Piscian, and I've always placed a lot of stocking dreams. In a series of dreams, three to be exact, I kept hearing a name, Sananda called out by a group of angels that I were always traveling behind, walking behind. By the third time, this name, which was in every dream, so familiar to me like, this is Sonanda. I would always look around like, yeah, who's Sananda? Who's going to answer to this? The third. time was the time where I realized, oh, shit, I'm Sananda. I'm Sananda. That's me. And literally, the angels who never faced me in any of the three dreams literally turned around and face me and started applauding, like, ah, he gets it. And that was the beginning of that.

And I was given, you know, to understand if you have the courage of heart to take this. This is the answer you've been waiting for, looking for. And it will even resurrect the other name that they're now suppressing to keep control of you. So that was the path I had to take. I was ridiculed, of course, as you would expect. So that was absolutely nuts.

And it's like, well, just because I'm nuts doesn't mean it's not a great idea. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits,

the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment,

and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right what you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. I'm John Green. You may know me as the author of The Fultonar Stars,

and now I guess also is the co-host of the away end, a brand new world soccer podcast. I'm Daniel Alarcon, a writer and journalist, and John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first World Cup was Mexico 86. I was nine years old. I watched every game, and I fell in love. On our new podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. For us, soccer, football, is a story we've shared for over 30 years since Daniel was the star player on our high school soccer team. Very debatable.

And I was there most loyal and sometimes only. I love this game. I love its history, its hope, its heartbreak, and above all, its beauty. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Alarcon and John Green on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On a recent episode of the podcast Money and Wealth with John Hobriant, I sit down with Tiffany the Bucconista Aliche to talk about what it really takes. to take control of your money. What would that look like in our families if everyone was able to pass on wealth to the people when they're no longer here? We break down budgeting, financial discipline, and how to build real wealth, starting with the mindset shifts.

Too many of us were never, ever taught. Financial education is not always about, like, I'm going to get rich. That's great. It's about creating an atmosphere for you to be able to take care of yourself and leave a strong, financial legacy for your family. If you've ever felt you didn't get the memo on money, this conversation is for you to hear more. Listen to Money and Wealth with John O'Brien from the Black Effect Network on the I'd Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Hey, Ernest, what's up? Look, money is something we all deal with, but financial literacy is what helps turn income into real wealth. On each episode of the podcast, Earn Your Leisure, we break down the conversations you need to understand money, investing, and entrepreneurship. From stocks and real estate to credit, business, and generational wealth, we translate complex financial topics into real conversations everyone can understand. Because the truth is, most people will never taught how money really works. But once you understand the system, you can start to build within it. That means ownership, smarter investing, and creating opportunities not just for yourself, but for the next generation. If you want to learn how to learn how,

how to build wealth, understand the markets, and think like an owner. Earn your leisure is the podcast for you. Listen to Earn Your Leisure on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up? I'm Miles Turner. And I'm Brianna Stewart. And our podcast, Game Recognized Game, has never been done before. Two active players giving you a real look at our lives and what we actually think,

on and off the court. Nothing's off limits. We talk trade requests. What's the vibe of that when it's like your star players, like, well, I want to leave. And then actually now I'm going to stay. We talk tanking. I mean, honestly, like, I might get in trouble for this answer, but I think it's, like, definitely happening in the WBA.

And yeah, we talk about our mistakes, too. They pulled me to the side and was like, hey, man, we got a call last night, man. You can't be rolling around the city like this tonight before games, no, you know, doing this, doing whatever. And of course, family stories. They'll be like, Mommy, why did you miss that? Mindy, do you play basketball? Check out Game Recognized game with Stoian Miles on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How hard was that transition, professionally speaking?

Because I didn't know you existed until 2011. You know, so I was wondering, like, wait, what happened between 94? Like, where's he at? I had to give you time to do your other shit. Because you were laying in your foundation. For a culture that you're just a very, very huge part of. Okay, but look, the bottom line was, for a long time, I had to dissociate myself with that life, that world.

So I wasn't going to be performing those songs anyway. Got it. Creating a new catalog gave me something to do. For eight years, I was in a trio. I've still played everything myself on the record, but I went with a trio, which means that I arranged everything with a view towards when you play this live, you're just going to have three instruments.

As an arranger, that was a great, great challenge. I loved it. Arrangers loved, now you got right for 12 pieces. Now you got right for four pieces. You know, we love that. Right. At one point, weren't you, were you considering being the new frontman of NXS, or was that just a one-off thing?

That is another very interesting story that came about because I had heard a rumor from a couple people, hey, what's this about you joining NXS? I had absolutely no idea where this even started. Okay. It was in addressing the rumor through the media that they heard that I was saying, that they got the idea to ask if I would do it. So it was actually me debunking the rumor. It was while I was debunking a rumor that in the process of debunking the rumor, and they heard the rumor and then said, hey, let's take a gamble and ask if you, if you'll do it.

I was very good friends with Michael Hutchins. Michael Hutchins. Yeah. And so, yeah, that's how that happened. It was strange. And then, of course, we did the opening of the Olympic Stadium in Sydney in the year 2000. Right. And that's what led them to invite me the next year to be Jesus in Godspell. And I was really excited about that because it was like, you know, I grew up doing Godspell in junior high school.

Mm-hmm. So I knew that like the back of my hand. And they asked me to play the Jesus character. I was like, dude, that's like, yeah, man, the Australians love these bitches. Yeah, man. It's about time. Because, you know, I always felt like he probably looked closer to me than he did to Chris Sarandon or whoever plays this one fucking the movies anyway when I was a kid, you know.

But the irony is the very day I was meant to get on the plane. The producer and the director got into a huge fight because the director had promised, in order to get me on board, promise I could contribute a song. to the situation to give me another song to sing and there were already probably doing but I guess that was the straw that broke the cameras back

and literally got a call an hour before I was going to leave to the airport that they had postponed it until they sorted out all this other stuff which by which point I had moved on but yeah that rumor was

true and that rumor led to some other stuff and then eventually they asked if I wanted to be a permanent member but that was in the very beginning of me going into the transition full time in earnest and realized it wouldn't have been in my best interest to have lent my energy to that. So the way you create now, is it when the spirit moves you or like are you your final say? Are you your boss? Are you like, okay, are you in an

ideal place now creatively? I've been in an ideal place creatively since the very, very beginning, I was spoiled that I've always had creative control. And the first record was the only time I've ever even made demos. But my answers is like this. I'm 62 years old. I've been doing this my entire life. Who the fuck else should I be listening to but me? I've always believed in my taste as an artist,

meaning that if I can tell someone else has made great, music. I don't see why all of a sudden it's impossible for me to know that I've done something tasteful or captured something. It is just, it is just, and the energy that I inherit back into the process of creating when I no longer have to defend myself or answer questions, why are you starting the wild card with this, this kind of banjoe economy kind of, why are you doing? I just got to time all that shit. Man, look, I love when you go dirty. Like, the, dirty your shit sound, the most, the cassetti just drums untuned.

I love that shit. Like, I love it so much. Look, brother, I cannot emphasize enough how much of a profound, I don't even get into, you did a show at the Academy of Music one night in Philadelphia, and I'm walking home from school. And only because I know the baseline, like the back of my hand. your band is sound checking wiki-wacky by a fat-back band. Yeah.

Because I heard that booby-diboo-bo-bo-bo-bo-bo-bo-bo-bo-bo-bo-doo-d-d. And there was half a second where, like, one of the side doors was open at the academy of music. And me, like, I'm walking home from school. And you guys are sound-checking at the Academy of Music. I went to perform an art school, like, across the street from that school. and would often walk by it. And I didn't even know the fat back version that well, but I knew that baseline and watching you guys for like three minutes,

like, and then security kicked us out. But we snuck in the cell check. But yeah, it was such a profound effect on my life. And of, and I know I sound like a broken record. on this podcast. I've been doing this for seven years. I've, I didn't know this is the interview I always wanted in this ideal situation. And I thank you so much for, for granting me the one-man audience to just nerd out and give you your flowers, man. I really appreciate the opportunity when your people contacted us a few weeks ago. I was really like, it was a kind of feeling like,

finally, you know what I mean? Like, you know, I see you. I see you. I, I see you on. It's weird. I just didn't think you knew. Like, come on, man, you're all over the fucking place.

See, but I don't know that. I think when you're in it, you're not like. No, I'm into the culture. I mean, basically,

I should own shares in YouTube at this moment at this point. So, you know, whatever you're doing, you know, I'm catching it, I'm seeing it,

you know, and the fact that you got the gig with Fallen. Yeah. And all of that, man, it's just like, you know,

your imprint has been huge. Your footprint has been huge. And we've really, really needed it because that thing you established, which was kind of in its own way, you taking over from, who were we referencing before that whole... Paul Schaefer. Whoever we were referencing before that they basically had a whole thing. You also put out an umbrella and brought in a lot of stuff that you nurtured and was really,

really important for the culture. And I just thank you. I just really do because you made excellent, excellent music and work. The productions have been excellent. And I want you to pass on my love to a young brother, DeAngelo, and to Erica as well. Dee's going to be my first phone call, like, right after now. Like, I'm just bursting out the seams, man. Tells DeAngelo, in particular, I'm proud of him.

And, you know, he's everything you kind of suspected he had in him when you first heard Brown Sugar, he's definitely going beyond that. And like I said, he's even got Scandinavian bitches in Sweden, talking about how proud they are of him. So, you know, just pass it on, okay? And I want us to stay in contact. We know we might do this. We will. I'll slide in your DMs and give you my information, brother.

Thank you for listening to Questlove Supreme. Hosted by Amir Kuzloff Thompson, Maya St. Clair, Fonte Coleman, Sugar Steve Mandel, and unpaid Bill Sherman. The executive producers are Amir Kuzloff Thompson, Sean Chief, Brian Calhoun, Produced by Brittany Benjamin, cousin Jake Payne, Waias St. Clair. Edited by Alex Conroy.

Produced by IHeart by Noel Brown. Questlove Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. For more podcasts from IHart Radio, visit the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me.

Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. I'm Daniel Alarcon, and this is my friend.

This is much more famous than I am. I wouldn't go that far, but I'm John Green, co-host of the podcast The Away End with my old friend Daniel. On our podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to The Away End with Daniel Alarcon and John Green on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is Amy Roboc alongside TJ Holmes from the Amy and TJ podcast. And there is so much news, information, commentary coming at you all day and from all over the place. What's fact, what's fake, and sometimes what the F. So let's cut the crap, okay? Follow the Amy and T.J. podcast, a one-stop news and pop culture shop to get you caught up and on with your day. And listen to Amy and T.J. on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. It's Financial Literacy Month, and the podcast, Eating While Broke, is bringing real conversations about money, growth, and building your future. This month, hear from top streamer, Zoe Spencer, and venture capitalist Lakeisha Landrum Pierre, as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up.

There's an economic component to communities thriving. If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they fail. Listen to Eating While Broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is Saigon, the story of my family and of the country that shaped us. From IHeart Podcasts, Saigon. You don't think I'm serious about a free Vietnam? One city, a divided country, and the war that tore America apart.

It's for Vietnam. They're pouring patril all over here. Freedom for Vietnam! There's a fire coming to this country, and it's going to burn out everything. Listen to Saigon on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.