The Questlove Show - Questlove Supreme: Shirley Jones

Episode Date: August 11, 2021

School is in session! This week's Questlove Supreme guest and her sisters set the tone and backgrounds for some of your favorite artists of the 70’s . From Tower of Power to Diana Ross and so many in between, Shirley Jones and her sisters sang with them all! Better known as The Jones Girls they went on to dominate the charts and airwaves with their own hit records thanks to their collaborations with Philadelphia International Records’, Gamble and Huff. Listen as Quest and Team Supreme dig into the musical journey of Shirley Jones. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media.

Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clivert Show on the I-Hard Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends.

Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, all. wherever you get your podcast. What's up, everyone? I'm Ego Vodam. My next guest, it's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo, woo.

My dad gave me the best advice ever. He goes, just give it a shot. But if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat, just hang out. there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot

of luck. Yeah. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the Iheart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Questlove Supreme is a production of Iheart Radio. Hello. How you doing? Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Kostov Supreme. I had to think for one second, exactly where were we?

I'm your host, Kestlove. Thank you for joining us yet again here with my Squid-od. What's up a pay bill? How are you? Man, it's a good day. Can't complain. Summer's good so far. Can't complain. Kids are happy. Camp is in session. Life is good. Camp's in session?

Camp is in session. Summer camp is summer camp. Oh, but summer camp in the crib, right? No, they go away. Not like overnight. You set them away. No, no, no, no. I like away, way, way, way. Just like during the day, away. I would call that summer school, but, you know. And when they come home, I de-lawful. They're just them like a prison movie. That's right.

I see that. How's it going on, Sugar Steve? Fresh from your season five. That's right. Yep, everything's cool. I mean, boss called me into work today, so there's that. But other than that, doing good. Horrible boss you have there.

Sorry. He's all right. Laya, everything's fine. Oh, yeah. I'm good. Yes, I can hear you loud and clear, Lai. I'm going to press the mute button. I know what that means.

Right, right. How's it going like. Oh, it's going good. You mean, am I muted? No, you know, we can hear you now. All right. It's going good. I mean, I'm excited to talk to some good Philly music and whatnot.

Exactly. Yeah. Oh, yeah. All right. Well, speaking of which, ladies and gentlemen, speaking of Philly music, our guest today is the pride of the city of Detroit, Michigan. Via Philadelphia.

Right. Via Philadelphia. Um, yeah, along with, uh, her sisters, uh, the great Brenda and Valerie Jones. I will say that our guest today, um, along with her two sisters, but probably, uh, the go-to background combo trio in the mid-70s. Uh, they kind of dominated that platform, sort of similar to how, uh, Susie Houston and the sweet inspirations once did in the mid, mid to late 60s for many luminaries from Arita Franklin, uh,

Lou Rawls, Teddy Pendergrass, Linda Clifford, Tower Power. Of course, Diana Ross, where I first heard her group's name mentioned. Well, okay, Diana called them the Jones sisters on that live record. But anyway, they signed, they came to my hometown of Philadelphia, around 79, worked under the mighty Philadelphia International Records Empire, releasing hit after iconic hit from the Hove sample. You're going to make me love somebody else to like dance turn in a romance, to my all-time favorite nights over Egypt, to who can I run to, so many can name. Also, I'll say that our guest today enjoyed her first number one hit single.

Do you get enough love, 86? Two years after she left for a solo career. and with six LPs under her belt with her family, two solo records. Our guests are still holding the mantle and kind of the legacy of the Jones girls in her hands. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to you, Custlep Supreme, the one and only Shirley Jones. Thank you. Well, thank you. Thank you.

Hey. How are you? I'm fine. I'm doing really good. Staying in the house, which is the safest place right now. Exactly. That's all we're doing. Staying in the house, you know.

No, I thank you for doing this. I will say that after a lot of stalking on Instagram and social media, I was happy. I was fortunate enough to get your attention to come and join us on the show because we're massive. Yeah, I'm so happy. Yeah, I'm so happy because, I mean, I'm just, I'm a fan. So I'm fanning out right now. Thank you.

Absolutely. You and the roots. And, I mean, the. Thank you. The Tonight Show. We used to just sit there and watch the nights. One day we're going to be on the Tonight Show. This is back when Johnny Carson was.

Yeah. So I'm a huge fan. Well, I'm a fan of yours as well. Of course, like I've known, you know, as of Philadelphia, and I've known, I've learned of your history after you came to Philadelphia to sign to the label. But I'm really curious about that, the first part of your career in Detroit, Michigan. What part of Detroit did you guys grow up in? We grew up on the west side.

You know, it's the east side and west side. West side, we went to Central High School. That's the nice part of Detroit, right? No, absolutely not. No, okay. See, I'm told by a lot of, I'm told by Detroit luminaries that if someone's on the east side, I should watch my wallet. But if someone's from the west side, then, you know, they might have finished high school.

Right. No, I mean, it's okay. It's okay. Yeah. All right. So can you, well, okay, I always start with, what was your first musical memory? My first musical memory was me and my mom singing just the two of us. Once she found out that I could sing at like six years old, she was a very popular gospel singer back in the Detroit area, Mary Frazier, Jones. In fact, she was the first black gospel singer that RCA records. They signed my mother to the gospel label the same day they signed Little Richard. So, yeah, and once she discovered that I could sing, I remember going around there these different churches singing just the two of us when it was just she and I. Okay. When you say just the two of us, I'm instantly thinking like, wait, do you have time of you? Yeah. There's another just the two of us. Right. It's a gospel song.

just the two of us. Okay. I see. In the lineup of your sisters, where do you fall? Are you the... I'm the oldest. Okay. You're the oldest sister. Yes. So was it just you three in the household or did you have other siblings? No, through my mother and father's union, it's just the three of us. But they're like five other kids by three other different women. Okay. You know, wives and, you know, not wives. Yeah. He was a minister too. like that's all you know you didn't even have to say that I was going to say hey was your dad in picture yes yes my mother my mother was the second wife or second maybe third okay there were five yeah I feel you I feel you um so basically what was what was the your your childhood like um because I'm always curious to ask you how especially when groups that I admire sort of unfold in the 70s, they all seem to have the same kind of narrative,

which is that they start in gospel music. And I'm always curious to see how they are kind of able to unwrap themselves out of gospel. Like some answers are like, you know, it was a controversial thing to start singing in secular. And some, you know, they were embraced by their church and their family, whatnot. But what was your relationship with music when you were growing up?

Like, were you allowed to listen to both or just gospel in the house? Oh, no. She did. She allowed us to listen to both. It was very difficult after being with her because we were traveling around Detroit. You know, Detroit's the music city, Motown, but as well as gospel, the Detroit's choirs were known all over the world. Aretha Franklin's father, his church. So we were traveling that circuit.

around Detroit, Chicago, and singing behind my mother. My mother was also the music director at Russell Street Baptist Church, so she knew voices. Oh, wow. And I credit our harmonies and our vocalizing to my mother. My mother rehearsed us. Oh, my goodness, from the time I was about seven or eight, and Brendan and Valerie were with stair steps.

So once she realized what she had, she rehearsed us at least maybe four or five times a week. Other kids be out there playing and we'd be put out there trying to play. But my godmother who lived across the street was the piano player. We always had a piano on our home because we studied piano. We all play piano. And my mother was like, okay, you guys come in. We're going to rehearse.

She practiced our voices. She taught us how to lay back. if the note is too overpowering. She taught us diction. So I credit everything to her from teaching us early on. And then being on the same circuit as like the Clark sisters, the wine is back then. Man, when Holland, Georgia Holland reached out and wanted us to start to try to come to

their label, first to sing back ground. Oh, she, yes, she, a music merchant too. Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah, my mother was just so, it took a lot of persuading, but she finally let us do it. I'm curious as to, okay, as to the training, because the thing is, is that in listening to your records, I noticed that you guys spend an equal amount of time singing in unison. Yes.

In addition to your harmonies. And I always wanted to know what was the, because I, That was an unusual trademark. And I guess as a non-singer, like I'm a producer who's a non-singer. So I would automatically think, well, coming out the gate, everyone sings in harmony. But you guys had a really unusual process where you all sing together. So it was always like one voice to me. Exactly.

And when my mother was training us, that's what she was, she would always grill us. And she'd be like, I want you Shirley to pull back or Brenda, I need you to come up. more. Even when we're doing unison, she would say because the ultimate goal is for your harmonies and your unison's to sound like a lead, to sound like a lead. And she drilled that in us. And one of the best memories that I have with my sisters is when it was just the three of us, after we started doing background for different people, when it was just the three of us together, no boyfriends, no, you know, nobody, girl, girlfriends hanging around with us. We would practice that because my mother had drilled it in us.

We would practice that. Rather we were doing background for somebody or working on our own project, it had to be right. And then Valerie, the youngest sister, she was blessed with near-perfect pitch. So, of course, she would always be like, that doesn't sound right. You're too sharp, Shirley, get the, you know, so that we had so much fun, practice. sing because we always strove to be for our sound to be perfect. Whether we were singing unison, harmony, singing behind Aretha Franklin or doing a Jones Girls project. Well, I know that you were always in the gospel choir, but, you know, I know that you're

in Detroit, which even after they long, you know, migrated to Los Angeles, I'm certain that, you know, still with luminaries still there, like Funkadelic and whatnot. Like, what were your, what was the, the social interaction with other notable members of the Detroit musical community for you? Like, who, was there a group of people that you hung with or notable people that we would know? Not really. We, well, when we went to music merchant, to Holland or Holland's label, we were doing background for, like, chairman of the board, free to pain, honeycomb. And at that time, we were, I guess, maybe 13, 14.

In fact, when I was watching a summer of soul, it took me way back. And I was like, oh, my God, half of those people that were involved in that we either met, we either worked with. And I said, wow, what a blessing. Because at that time, in 69, we were like 13, 12, 13 years old. And we had just started doing background at that age for Holland, Doja, Holland, because they saw us on a gospel. TV show in Detroit. And that was when we begged my mother, oh, this is Holland Doja, Holland, Motown, please let us do background. They just, it's just background. No, you know, and it's not gospel background, but please, ma'am, please. So she finally let us do it. But the stipulation was she had to be there. She was at every session from the time I was 13 and we started doing it until I was 18, grown. I know that since, you know, Ray Charles introducing quote-unquote secular, non-gospel lyrics to gospel music, that that's always been an issue with the church and whatnot. But obviously, you're coming from a younger generation that isn't so married to what your parents and grandparents sort of subscribe to.

So, you know, who was your. who was your your north star as far as like who did you grow up idolizing like who's who's the voice that you long to be sort of not in a non-gospel way like who are you listening to on the radio on the radio all of motown yeah the the the temptations the four tops uh but the but the group that we idolized and used to have my mom make outfits for of course was the supreme's we absolutely idolized the superans we wanted to be like the Supremes. Really?

Yeah, we wanted to be like the Supremes. Okay, so we've asked another person that's once worked with Diana Ross what that experience was like. The story was humorous. No, they're talking about Sheila E's

rather tense time under a camp. What was it like? And of course, I'm skipping. I want to know about all your background stuff, but what was it like to finally land that job? It was amazing. We actually, we were perfectly happy.

We had just moved to Detroit to LA with McKinley Jackson. He was managing us at the time. And we were perfectly happy doing background sessions because we were doing like three and four a day. It was either us or the waters that people wanted to do their background back then. Oh yeah. Those are my buddies.

Yeah, it was either us or them. That's who we were those premier groups for background singing back then. And McKinley said, well, you know, Diana's auditioning for some singers. And she's been turning everybody down. And he said, you guys want to try it? We like, Diana, yeah. I mean, you know, we're from Detroit. Hey, let's give it a shot.

And so we went up there actually thinking we were singing for Gil Askey, her music director and her road manager, Don Peek, up Lower Canyon somewhere. And we went up there and McKinley started playing. We had rehearsed Ain't a mountain high enough and reach out and touch somebody's hand for our audition. And right in the middle of singing, who comes down the hall, but Diana Ross. And the only words out of her mouth was, you guys are terrific. Can you get passports? We're going to London.

And we, of course, you know, we were like, yeah. have we can go to London and but we had to work out some things on our contract because of our background singing which she did allow we traveled seven months of the year with her and then when she was on hiatus she did allow us to keep our background singing career for other artists um okay she yelled you and rain she held you on retainer but you were allowed to we were allowed to sing right but we were still getting you know we were getting half of our paycheck right when she was when she wasn't working but she still allowed us to do our singing, our background singing.

And over the years, I have defended and so many people have said, what was she like? I hear, you know, she's this, she's that, and the other. I said, let me just tell you one thing. She was the hottest entertainer in the world back in the 70s. Absolutely nobody was bigger than Diana Ross, except maybe Frank Sinatra. And she was a perfectionist. She was a female, and she was demanding. She demanded from her band to her singers to be as into the show and rehearse and be on top of your gig as she was.

And because that was, it drilled in us, and that's what we did anyway, she was absolutely one of the best people to work for. and she was so concerned for us because up until we went to London with her, the only places we had been was Detroit, surrounding areas, and then California. And she loved and respected our sound so much that after the European tour is when she came to us, she was going to do her yearly twice a year residency at Caesar's Palace. And she came to us and said, you know, you girls, are too good to be singing background behind me or anybody else forever. So, you know, I change clothes at least five times in my show.

I want you to get a song together, and I want you to sing it. I'm going to bring you out, the Jones sisters, and I'm going to introduce you to the world. And that's actually, she did that. We chose, if I ever lose this heaven from Quincy Jones album that was hot back then. And that's how we got with Gamble and Huff at the school. theater. Yeah. The Schubert Theater. Yeah, the Schubert Theater. And she called us and Cynthia Biggs and Dexter Wanzell. They were in the audience and they said, all they could think about and look at during the whole show was us. They kept saying, you hear those girls, you hear her background singers. They're tearing it up. And Gambwin Huff came backstage. And they said, you guys are terrific. Are you signed with anybody? And we're like, no. We're like, oh, my God, Gamble and Huff asking us if we're signed with anybody. And so we went back to L.A. And within a month, we had our attorneys work.

We worked out the deal. And within two months, we were flown to Philadelphia to work on that first Jones girl's album. Wow. Yes. That's amazing. That's amazing. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along. the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with

some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never.

mess with her friends either. We always say that, trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends... Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care.

So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he's. serves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, everyone? I'm Ego Vodam. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live,

and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said,

if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat, just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck.

Listen to thanks, Dad, on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Wait a minute. I always wanted to know, was this the tour where she would, it would start with the video thing with the guys carrying her over? No, no, this was before then. Okay, because I always wanted to know how she did that illusion. No.

Okay. I was a kid when I seen, like a long time ago. Yeah. Wow. Can you also talk about like the gig with her and how it was different than other background kids as far as like she said she changed her clothes five times. Did you guys get to change your clothes? Did you have the same outfit you had to wear every night?

Or because it was Diana Ross, y'all had like a nice rotation. And what did she require before every show as far as rehearsal and stuff like that? is the comparison to everybody else you work for. With her being a perfectionist, we rehearsed a lot before we would go out on tour with her. I mean, we rehearsed a lot. And yes, she did curse. She would come in there. And if you, if the bad, she never had to curse it us because we were going to be on top of our game.

But if she would, she would curse them out. And I, you know, and I often tell people, I said, now if she were a man like Frank Sinatra coming out, cursing because somebody wasn't doing their absolute best and she felt that they should be, he'd be applauded. He would be applauded and said, oh, he's just such a strong individual. He'd make sure that, you know, but because she's a woman and she was that demanding at that time, you know, women weren't supposed to, you know, come. If you weren't doing your job, you were supposed to be demure and say, well, would you please, you know?

She would come in there cursing like a cell. Oh, yeah. Or it makes me think of Beyonce and me. is allowed to be today. Yeah. Exactly. So I give her kudos because she was demanding. Yes, she was.

But she would also make sure that she was doing, you know, as far as rehearsing, too. She was always, always immaculate, impeccable. Two people that I learned the most from as far as entertaining myself, I always say is Diana Ross and Eddie Lebert from the OJs, because they are. Show people. Absolutely show people. I can't wait to hear what you learn from. Can I? Yeah, I want to know for you, or is it a thing where the grass is greener on the other side? Do you prefer studio sessions or do you prefer traveling?

This, I'm talking strictly in terms of your days as a background singer. As a background singer, I prefer being in the studio. Yeah, I prefer being in the studio because I'm more of a, well, when we were traveling doing background for her, that was exciting because that was the first time we, you know, we're traveling doing background and making money. But now, I mean, I prefer doing studio work versus traveling singing background for someone. Isn't it a bigger pressure, though, in the studio? Because I'm almost certain that there's, you know, there's really not enough time for you to. You borderline have to catch it and perfect it in a short amount of time, I would assume, correct? Yeah, in real time.

In real time. Yeah, in real time. That's one of the reasons why so many people wanted us to do background because they knew that we were going to rehearse so much so that when we got in the studio, you know, time is money. We would knock that stuff out just like that. That's why sometimes we would have two and three sessions a day because we were able to, we would rehearse. and practice our parts for whoever and to make sure that when we went in the studio, bam, bam, bam, we could do it. And, you know, back in the day, you're talking about eight tracks.

And you're talking about not being able to sing one little part and then they fly it through the song. You had to sing that exact same way, four and five, you know, three to double it. And so, and I think that's one of the reasons why the artists today, the today, don't, as far as live performances, they cannot do it like us that were trained to have to sing a song all the way through three and four different times to stack that harmony and sound the exact same way each time. Right. I see. I agree. I agree with you. Curious, who were your peers? I don't want to say competitors, but who were the peers who, if you can't get the Jones sisters, you know we should call so-and-so? The Waters.

The water. That was it. It was just yon. It was just yon. And there was us in California for the longest. Yeah, that was it. I'm sorry, Mayor. Yep. Yeah. So what, I know you mentioned working under Holodosa, Holland, when you came to Los Angeles, what year was that? We went to Los Angeles in 1975.

Yeah, by 75, 76. That's when Motown moved And then, you know, they had given Holland Doja Holland the Invictus And the music merchant labels Right. And I think Motown moved, what, in 73, 74? And then those late McKinley and

Holland Doja Holland moved out, I think, 75. So it was just basically everyone in Detroit was migrating to Los Angeles And we might as well follow suit and follow them as well? And follow them, exactly, exactly. I see. Could you tell me like what other notable acts were you singing background for that we might not be aware of?

Helen Reddy, Share. What songs? Yeah. Helen Reddy, oh, my God. Somebody just posted it the other day. I forgot that song that we did for her. We did the entire album because she just passed, I think, recently. And someone posted it and share.

For sure, like half read or take me home or? I forgot what song. But the song that we did. did do for share, I don't think it made the album. Okay. But we did a session, we did a session because we did two songs with her and they never met. I don't think they made the album. Now, somebody's going to probably prove me wrong and post it, you know.

Okay. I know that you've done background on some notable Philly International songs as well. So it might assume that you're basically all the female voices that I hear on, like, You'll never find another love like mine and those those songs as well, like with Lou Rawls and. Now, we did do Lou Rawls album. There was a group of girls in Philadelphia. Okay. I can't think of their names that were doing a lot of background singing for gambling them.

Because once we became the Jones girls, you know, we didn't do as much background singing for other people. Once we got with Gamble and Huff and 79, just select people, you know, when we had the time because, you know, with you're going to make me love somebody else coming out the box being so big. We immediately sent us to Ohio with Charlie Atkins, who put the OJs and temptations with him. And we were rehearsing to go out on tour with the OJs. Wow, you were trained under Charlie Atkins?

Oh, yes. What was that like? Oh, man. Because I know he was a taskmaster. He was. He wasn't. I have two left feet. So he was always on me. He was constantly on me because I'm not. I was the only one that couldn't dance. Brendan Valley could dance, you know. And me, I'd always try to. Well, I'm singing lead anyway. Can I just stand on? No, you cannot. You're going to do those harmonies. You're doing them too, girl. And so, oh, he was a test. And you just, just eat a banana. Eat a banana before you come in here to rehearsal for that potassium so you can move those feet. He was a drill master. No, I heard. Every,

every act that's ever worked with him. Oh, my God. Wait, what period were you guys with Aretha Franklin? We did the Almighty Fire album with her. Oh, God. Yes. Yes. Only say this because the kind of household I grew up in,

I would, I grew up with three binge shoppers when it came to records. So like every week stacks and stacks and stacks of 45 stacks and stacks and stacks of 33's would come in the house. But the thing is, is that I would get the records that my parents didn't want. So, you know, as far as my Aretha collection, like there was a period like, Almighty Fire, the You record. all the way up to La Diva, like basically the post-Sparkal records that really weren't hitting the same. Right. I inherited. So I know all those like sweet passion, like all those Aretha records that weren't quite, you know, up there with the legacy albums.

What was it like? Oh, God, and she was wearing that space suit, too. Yep. The green space. I remember that period. Well, what was it like? And how intimidating is it? you know, working with her or was she just, you know, another Detroit person that you could connect with?

Well, we had sang as children at her father's church with my mother one Sunday. Okay. When we were there, I believe it was one of her father's anniversary. And we knew that she was going to be there at that time. She was a superstar. She had respect out, you know, she was like, and they said she was going to be at the church. And after we performed, she came up to my mother and said, boy, those are some singing girls you got there. And then fast forward, like 15 years later, we were doing Almighty Fire.

And what a lot of people don't know is that when that Sparkle movie was, you know, they were looking for the actors and actresses for that movie. Aretha Franklin and Kenny Gamble wanted us to play the sisters. Hired her. Rietha pitched in for, she wanted us to do it because because of our voices and we had just sang on her album. And Kenny felt that

that would be a great, we were, you know, the Jones girls, he felt that we were just coming out. That would be perfect. They sent us to New York and a limo. And it was, I think they both were very, and I know we were disappointed, it, especially when, and you know, Aretha, she was activists back then,

especially when those girls, they, you know, was very light, bright girls that got the part. Her thing was to them was, you know, this is ridiculous. Those girls can, you know, they're singers and they could be taught to be actresses too. And she was quite upset about that. So there was almost a chance that you could have.

Yeah. I had a chance to sparkle. Wow. Yes. At least sing the songs. That was crazy. You know, yeah. Was there, was there ever a background gig that you had that was like a little too intimidating

or that you, you know, was just all right to you? No, we, we, no matter who the artist was. And there were a lot of artists that, you know, hadn't even made it yet. But, you know, if we liked the song and, you know, they were willing to pay, because to pay the money, you know, we were, we would do it and we would give our best. And the thing that a lot of people don't know is that for another reason why so many people liked us is because we created a lot of those backgrounds. They knew that if they gave us the song, we were going to create the background parts.

Oh, yeah. So, I mean, you do the actual arrangement. Some on some for a lot. Now, some did come with, you know, specific backgrounds, but our reputation became such that they'd be like, okay, well, hey, here's the song. What do you guys think? You know, and then drop a few, Shirley. Norman Connors, Lou Rawls, who else, that we, they let us do just, you know, control the background. God, it's so many people.

Not just songs, but they were just like artists that were like, it's. don't matter what song I'm doing. Let the Jones girls come in here and do our thing. Now, Brenda was alive because her memory is so much better than mine. She, she, she can remember every single artist we did background on and everything. But, but me, it gets a little fuzzy sometimes because when people post stuff now and I'll be like, oh, yeah, I remember that we did do that song, you know. So, um, with, with signing to, um, Philly International. I'll say that probably, in my opinion, because, you know, my dad purchased all the records and played it at the house all the time.

I will say that you guys were probably given a more contemporary up-to-date town than a lot of the acts that were on Philly International back then. Like it was almost a thing where, you know, you knew instantly within the first two seconds that you were listening. to a Philly International song based on like the trademark of the strings and all the mixing on the record or whatever but like you're going to make me love somebody else sounded nothing like what Philadelphia especially what was happened in 1979 if anything for a Philly international right yeah it was like a woman telling you better get your shit together right exactly yeah so what um i i mean i would assume that it's still the same group of people.

Like it's still Dexter Wanzell and Gamble and Huff and all those. Well, I know McKinley Jackson also worked on the record as well. Right. Like what was the discussion basically on how to present you guys and your sound? That's one of the things that I think Gamble and Huff, they were purposely trying to take us away just a little bit for from the the strings and horns of like say like of what they did with three degrees three degrees and wanted they wanted us to be more funky more soulful more R&B and if you notice the

the very first Jones girls album that's exactly i mean i'm at your mercies on there which is a you know heart wrenching uh ballad uh then of course there's you're going to make me love somebody else also like show love today there's Yeah, exactly. And who can I run to? Yeah, who can I run to? Yes. Yep.

What were your feelings on? Of course, not what your feelings on. Were you, how did it feel for escape to sort of reintroduce that song to a whole new generation? Yeah. When I heard it, when I first heard it, it was, what, 1995? So by that time, it was 16 years future from when we did it. And so many, I remember so many of the producers when Gamble, back in the day, you know, you had an A side and a B side on records.

And who can I run to was on the B side. Right. So many people did not want Gamble to put that. They said, put show love today, put anything on that on the B side of you're going to make me love somebody else besides who can I run to. because that is a, that is a single of its own. But of course, that didn't happen. So, I mean, we, you know, we were working and the girls and I had broken up by then. And when we heard, who can I run to, I was happy, actually, because back then, when

their record came out, there were so many DJs that were, you know, into new that we had done it first, because people used to flip it on the radio sometimes and play, who can I run to? So what they would do is like, yeah, I know you guys love this one by Escape, but guess what? Escape didn't do it first. Then they would play our version too and have people call in which version they like the best and all of that. And I happened to the girls were on a radio show some years back. And they said, we hope we did a good job. we, but, but we just love you guys and love you all sound. And, and I told them, I said, you all did a

great job because what you did was, you brought back a lot of attention to the Jones girls. And so, I was, I was, I told them. I said, so, hey, thank you. Thank you all. Because it brought back some attention because, I mean, up until, you know, from 16 years later, you know, we had kind died out like we weren't together anymore. We had, we would do some things occasionally over in Europe. But it was, it brought back a lot of attention and put that Jones girl's name back out there. I'm wondering how Dexter and Gamble and Hove worked in a writing sense, in the sense of they're writing all these kind of like female, these songs for women. Do you ever get to say anything about a lyric?

Did you ever get to say, well, I don't know if she would say it like this, but she might say it like that or did you, it was it always just their words, sing it, and let's go. Oh, no. It was, they allowed us to put in it, you know, just like, I just love the man. When we were in the studio doing, I just loved the man,

there was no talking up front at all. And Gamble kept saying, you had that. Yeah, oh, yeah, Gamble kept saying, that's a little trademark. Yeah, he said, the song is great. I love it, but something is missing.

Now, little did we know he was in the control booth, and I was going through some things in my relationship with McKinley at the time. And my sisters were, and we didn't know our mics were open. And they were like, girl, they were like, girl, we're so sick of you. And McKinley and all this drama, you know, you just need to leave him. And, you know, Mama said it. And then Kenny said, that's what we need.

We need that right there. That's wild. That's what we need. I'm serious. There was a live mic in the studio. And he told, yeah, we didn't know he was listening to us. And he said, that's what we need. Take a break.

Take a break. So we went in and wrote, you know, wrote out what we was saying. And that's how those talking parts got in there. Always be recording. Yeah. That's the first time that you did your infamous Shirley Jones. Yes, talking. Right.

That was an error, man. People don't shit talking to me in the beginning no more. Right. Especially with women. Yeah. Not since the days of Barbara Mason and the other woman. Yeah, or Dorothy Moore or, you know. Amir, aren't you bringing back interlude culture, right?

Yes, I'm bringing back. Bring it back. Exactly. So that's an aspect of here. You got to bring it. Yeah. A win is a win. A win.

A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep. That's me. Clipper Taylor, The fourth. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends... Oh my God, this is the same man.

A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target.

He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Ago Wode. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers, Anchorman, Saturday Night Live,

and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Farrell. Woo. Woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with him one day. And I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot.

I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved.

Mm. and he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be.

Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. You know, at the time when you're recording these records, I know that, well, you mentioned earlier that your album is more funk-based instead of disco-based. Was it also intentional to, even though 79 was still, you know, kind of a heavy disco tornado still happening? Was it sort of pre-planned for you guys to not lean so heavy to disco more into? what I call

Boogie or funk. Oh, funk. Yes. It was. Because we kept, I mean, disco kind of like exploded right there with you going to make me love somebody else. And we would, they would want us to perform in clubs like

Studio 54 and all those places. And we didn't really want to perform, you're going to make me love somebody else because it didn't have that disco tempo to us, we thought. But it became a big disco record and those different studios in New York

and different places would have us come at but we would always tell Gamble we thought it was a little slow for disco but hey they did a remix that was like 12 minutes long and that was the disco version so that's

how it became popular. Wait can I add one more thing so when you guys are touring I always wanted to know this because you guys were also, or at least to me, you know, you would, you would stack your background parts on your records and also have counterparts singing with you and always wanted to know how you guys pulled that off live when it was just three of you. But then I thought, well, it was just the three of you. Then obviously you would also have to have background singers for you guys as

well. And was that how you handled it? But no, no, we did. Really? When we would conduce it down for stage, we would take the heavy, the parts that we know people wanted to hear. Right. And it was the hardest thing for me because I'm the top note. And I was singing lead and then having to jump back. That's why now, I travel, I have three background singers that I have trained that have been with me for 10 years. And they know all the, I call them my little Jones girls, because they know all our parts

and everything, which frees me up to be able to do my thing. vocally. But oh, it was so hard. But because we always insisted on doing our own backgrounds. We didn't want to have anybody else on the side doing our, and the only time we kind of got away from it, we had a female MD, Myra, that played keyboards, and she would sing my top note. She was with us for maybe almost a year. And that, I was able to really get into my leads and stuff then when she was our MD, but that was only for about a year. Wow. Okay. I always wanted to know that because like, again, you guys are so intricate with the Jones Girl sound of stacking.

Right. That I was like, well, if it's three of them, you know, on stage, then I know there has to be an additional three voices to help all those counterparts that are swimming around in the song as well. No. Wow. We, because of the insistence of us never wanting, anybody to do our backgrounds. And Charlie Atkins, he was like, no. And have you dancing too.

And have us dancing. And then they, back in the day, we just didn't want it. We didn't want any background singers. We wanted people to hear us. And we, because we practiced, I mean, 24-7, and especially when we were on the road, we'd be in there practicing right before, right before hitting the stage just to make sure that everybody's voices, work on, you know, on top of what's because of what we were getting ready to do. So another question I have is because there's so many writing teams at Gamble and Huff. How are the decisions made on who you're going to work with? Like, do you guys say, hey, we, we like what Cynthia has for us.

So let's work with Cynthia Dexter or is like McFadden Whitehead. Like there's so many teams there. How do you? We had a, and in fact, it was so impressive when our first day, we took that elevator up on three, the crink, that little creaky elevator up on three, three or nine. And they gave you a nine Broad Street. Broad Street. They, I went to elementary school right next door at Performing Arts at 13 Broad Street. Right.

Okay. Right up the street. Yeah. Yeah. And they gave us a schedule. Everybody had little offices, offices with a keyboard. and a recorder. They gave us a schedule. Like from 10 to 12, we were going to be with Dexter and Cynthia, from, then take lunch, and then from two to four, we'd be with met fatten and whitehead.

Then from six to eight, we would be with Joe Jefferson, Charlie Boy, Simmons, the guys that did, who can I run to? Then every, every writer and producer got a chance to. to submit their songs within those two hours. And then the next day, the schedule will start all over again, because it was so many of them. And then, of course, also during that time, we would, Gamble and Huff had written their songs, and we would get with everybody,

and we would do little demos of the ones that we liked, you know, that we wanted to do. And then that's how we would choose which ones were going to be recorded. We'd sit down with Gamble and Huff at the end of the week, And they say, well, we think you all should do this one, this one, this one. Can you tell us what was the, I really don't know, like I always seen Cynthia Biggs's names on every credit forever. But she's probably the only Philly Luminary that I've yet to meet or knew about. Yes. And I tell her all the time, she to me is the most underrated writer.

Yes. like a Carol King to me. That girl because, oh my God, yes. I mean, love TK.O. If only you knew, living all alone. I mean, all of her songs are. I mean, all of her songs are such classics. And, you know, a lot of people don't, don't realize that, you know, because of course, she was writing partner with Dexter Wanzel and everybody know Dexter. He took all the, right. Exactly. But when she was telling us how she went to, the library to study the Egypt during the time of writing of writing nights over Egypt because she wanted to make sure that she was lyrically writing to that time period I knew then I'm

like this girl you know and I've gone yeah and I've gone on to to do demos for her on so many beautiful absolutely beautiful songs that didn't come out But I mean, she's incredible and absolutely incredible writer. And y'all still speak, Charlie. So you know where is she? Oh, she's in Philadelphia. Yeah, she, yeah, we got to find her. Yeah, we'll find her.

Yeah. I can get you in touch with her. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Because she's, she's written way too many hits. There's, there's one song. Yes.

There's one song I've always, always been curious about on your second record. On a piece of a woman, there's a song called Let's Sell celebrate. Sitting on top of the world, yeah. Right. So the thing is, is that I know on the writer's credit that I saw both Lou Rawls and Teddy Pendergrass's name in the writer's credit. Yeah, they put, I think they put. How does, how, what was that writing session like, like, was that real or was that a typo or? I think, because Cynthia, Cynthia Biggs, right, Dexteronzo. Lou Rawls and Teddy Pendergrass. I think that was, to be honest with you. In fact, I'm almost sure they put like a lyric or two in there and one, you know,

and because of their name at the time. Oh, okay. Yeah, they, they put, you know, a few little, few of the lyrics in there. Oh, I.E. Dinah Ross, Jackson, Five. Right. Yeah. Right. Right.

You know how it goes. But it's just so unusual to see. It's so random. Like, wait, I can't imagine Lou Raw's Teddy Pinnigrasse. Right. In a legal pad, had a piano. Right. Yeah. Now, that's just, that's just like Cynthia wrote, love TKO. But, but Teddy, I think Teddy's name got on there too. Or no, Gamble's name,

Gant & Gamble's name. And Warmac and Warmac. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, no. We got to find Cynthia. Yeah, we got to find Cynthia. Yeah, I've definitely, um, Layla, I'll send you her number. I, well, I'm going to get in contact with her first because we haven't spoken for a while, but yeah, I will. Yeah. And get you her number and her information. She would love to do it. Yes. We would love that. Yeah, I was going to say, you know, probably when, when the smoke clears, I would say that the average Jones Girl fan will always put Knights over Egypt as their almost their top song. Yes. Which was so unusual at the time. Yes. Like what is amazing. What's the genesis of the song and how did it wind up? in your hands? Well, it wound up in our hands. Dexter and Cynthia presented it to us. And we actually ended up recording it thanks to my baby sister, Valerie, because Brenda and I did not want to do the song. We thought it was too jazzy. And coming behind, I just loved the man and you're going to make

me love somebody else. We thought it was too jazzy. So we sat down and we had a come. It was like Brenda, Valerie, myself, Dexter, and Cynthia. And we said, well, I said, because I said, the music is just all, it's so different. It's so different. And Dexter said, yes, it is. And so then Valerie said, so it's beautiful. She said, so what we should do is do a different type of singing on it. And we're like, what, Valerie?

And so after talking, she said, why not have no lead singer? but you know how you mom always said let the unisons and harmonies be a lead and then with me and Brendan and I say hello and then Dexter and Cynthia said hey that's that's interesting let's

try that we went in the studio two takes after rehearsing Brendan Valor and I got together and we decided where we were going to do the unison where we were going to do the harmonies two takes it took us and it was done

I knew then that that was the special song because a lot of the other songs like you're going to make me love somebody else and who can I run to it took more takes than than two to get it right to the plane of where everybody felt comfortable that this was a hit but it was just two takes with nights over Egypt wow yeah for me that's like yeah and it's amazing too because it was actually the third single Valerie's also the one that said that should be the the first single. But during that time, Gamble and Huff always had to have the first single on the Jones girls. And it had just become, but Valerie, she was so upset. Nights over Egypt should be the first single

off of that, get as much love as you can. And it actually came off as a third single. And that's only because Quiet Storm just forgot about, finally found that man of mine and get as much love as you can singles. And they, everybody across the country just started playing nights over each. Did you say quiet storm? Yeah, Quiet Storm Radio. Was there ever a debate about that intro? Like, y'all, was there ever a debate like, this is way too long? We need to come in soon.

Or from the moment you heard the intro, you were like, all right, that makes, I mean, I know you thought it was crazy when you first heard it. But when y'all all came together for the song. No, we, we were, I mean, we were grooving off of it. But the breakdown, you know, when I do it on stage, the first time I tried to do it. Yeah, I was about to say, that must be your nightmare for your band. Oh, my. If they're not familiar. Oh, and I've,

they've got to get it right. They have to get it right. And then when I, when I cut it down to, you know, to take out the instrumental part, oh my God, they would all like,

no, you can't take the instrumental. This gives us a, you know. That's a, so I had to, oh, man, but I've let keyboard players go,

auditioning for me because they couldn't get it. They could not get it right. It has to be. Right. They would do everything. And Dexter would laugh. I said, Dexter, when keyboard players audition, if they don't get it, they're out of there. I can't. Don't try to remix it. Don't try to make it. Right. Yeah. Wow. That turnaround. Yeah. I can hear your bands right now, sweating looping that intro over and over and over again. I do not want to be the MD for that particular show.

Right. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what y'all saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told,

and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, Follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield. And in this new season of the girlfriends, oh my God, this is the same man.

A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed.

I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, everyone? I'm Ego Woodham.

My next guest, you know from Stepbrose, Others, Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo. Woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot.

I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit.

If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 83, you guys made a curious move.

Okay, for starters, can you explain? Because you're probably the first Philly International artist that we've had pre-81 on the show. Can you explain to me how the after effect of 10th century? of Teddy Pendergrass's car accident affected the entire label because I can only assume that there was a slow implosion of Philly International after 82 because

most acts will half the acts will leave the label a year later. Right. Of course, you know, the signature Gamble and Huffstown, even though Paddy LaBelle sort of kept the lights on, if you will, right. pretty much, you know, every act was going elsewhere, you know, to figure the 80s out. So did his accident actually have an effect on the entire label as far as it being a label being operational as far as in the eyes of, well, I know that Clive Davis wasn't running Philly International at the end of its run.

He signed the label to Columbia in 73. But yeah, what was just, what was the general atmosphere of the label in late 82 post-accident? Yeah, that accident was, it affected the label because, I mean, Teddy was the, Teddy was the, he was the hot guy. You know, he was the main, the main success at that point. And, I mean, we were, we were doing okay. the OJs, I think they were getting ready to leave if they hadn't already left. And I think Billy Paul had left or was in the process of leaving. And things were just changing.

I mean, disco by this time was just taking it had taken over everything. And Gamble and Huff were still writing basic R&B, you know, that sound. So it affected it to the point where I think that was when Philly International really started. going down. And we, of course, we weren't sure if Kenny was going to re-sign us. And we were having a lot of internal. By this time, we were having a lot of internal problems, group my sisters and I. Just as sisters? Yes, as sisters. And that's one question I didn't ask. How do you guys navigate as a group, as business partners, but also, you know, as, I mean, your sister's at the, you know, at the end of the day. So it's almost like you don't have an option to not to go to bed angry about something or.

Yeah, we didn't for a long time. Everything was fine. But then after the second album, we, it became, you know, more and more pronounced certain. certain things that we were dealing with internally. And we decide that's, uh, and a lot of it was over who was gonna, who was gonna be lead singer. I was gonna say how hard was it for you to,

because I know the whole thing like, let's all be unison, but at the end of the day, it's like someone at the label has to be like, look y'all, we're gonna have to focus on somebody here. So who is it? Well, see what happened was, When we went into Gamble and Huff, my sisters were so used to all of us sharing lead and everything, but Gamble and Huff had to sit Brenda down in particular because there had always been this thing that she felt she should be the lead singer.

But after the first album and the success of that first album, Kenny had to tell Brenda that he said, Now, every group has a signature voice now, and we feel that the most commercial signature voice for the Jones girls is Shirley. So, yes, we're going to, we're going to, you know, have you do some songs, but the bulk of the songs we want Shirley to do. And that was always an issue between Brenda and I. And that that was the main cause of us breaking up for the final time, yes. On the third album, not the third album, the fourth album on Target, I know that you guys went to RCA. What caused the split from Philly International in 83? We weren't sure that he was going to sign us.

And Brenda became friends with Robert Wright, who's now deceased, and Fonzie Thornton. Robert was over. The great Fonzie, yes, my Fonzie. And he, Robert Wright and Fonsie got together. And Robert was the head of the RCA at that point. And he and Brenda had become friends. And I think he had kind of told her, you know, that it would be more equal leads. Distribution.

Yeah. So we got over there and the same situation happened once they would hear my voice on the songs that Fonzie and Robert wrote, they wanted me, and that set up an issue between Brenda and Robert and then, you know, and that's why it was just that one album. But the interesting thing is, is that we had an album in the can at Philly International that Kenny Burke had done, keep it coming. They keep it coming in an album, yeah. Yeah, and he Gamble released that in that album, he released that like three months after RCA, I think. And that album did better than the on target album. Right.

So and then from there, that's when the group broke up totally, you know, and then Gamble called me to come back to do my solo project. Yeah, I know, I know that oftentimes, and, you know, it's always like the, similar to the Supreme situation where it's like sometimes the best singer or the most, the best singer or the best voice or the strongest voice, whatever, it doesn't mean the most commercial voice. And a lot of times people don't, you know, I think people understand in hindsight.

Yes. Years after the fact. After the fact. And I would tell Brenda all the time, Brenda has that really mid-tone tones in her voice, but she could also sing very high, but her voice is so full. And I used to tell her, you have a beautiful voice.

You could just, you know, do the songs that they put like, oh, I close my eyes on one of the albums. She's doing and, uh-uh, uh-uh, on that Keep It Coming album. You can hear the tones in her voice that were just rich. And that's why I couldn't understand why she just always, always, always. It was such a battle, too. When I, for Unsung, when Kenny and I were talking about when he was getting ready to do his own song part, He said, you know, I never thought Brendan liked me when after I sat down and told you all that it was your voice. Oh, you think?

He said, I don't think she ever really liked me. I said, well, Kenny, I don't think she liked me either. And I was her sister, but that was a hard conversation that he did, but he had to have it. So I'm curious too, though, because you guys have been singing since you guys were little, even in which your mom, was there ever any conversations to help? prevent these kind of moments like listen girls they're going to try to break you up or listen girls somebody may say she did she did my mom did and we i mean we were the best of friends we never uh fought because she always said don't fight i mean you know verbally we would go at each other but we would never physically because you know we weren't raised in that kind of

environment but um both of my sisters which runs in our family both had serious alcohol problems. Okay. That developed, but with Valerie, it started, you know, with the ending part with Diana Ross. And we found out about that a little later. But then with both of them, once we, really, after that, once that first Jones girls record, it just became more and more prevalent.

And that, and then the jealousy issues as far as leading is what broke the group up. and is what killed both of my sisters, alcohol. Well, Brenda was struck by three cars, but it was because, as far as I know, all I know is that the police officers that had seen, told me that that day earlier in the day, they had seen her walking down the street crying in Dover, Delaware, and they took her back to her hotel and told her, they said she let them in, and everything and they told her please you know stay in your room contact your daughter but don't go back out and i told them i god i wish they had had my number or some at that time because she was not

going to stay in that room you know um so that that that's what um that's what happened there in in 2017 with her valerie uh in 2001 uh she had she had just said that she was not going to She wanted my mom to check her in because she was tired and she really wanted. She knew that Brennan and I were talking about maybe doing something together with her again in 2001. And she had just said, well, Monday, I want you to take me. And she died from, you know, from her liver. Oh, man. Yeah.

Wow. So that conversation we had about the Olympics and people taking mental breaks. Oh, yeah. Totally different to you. Oh, mental health. And that's why I told the people from Unsung, you know, they did a great job of telling the story because both of my sisters, the drinking and then the Brenda's, in Brenda's case, taking those opioids because to just kill the pain. She was constantly in pain, she said. And instead of getting the help that she needed.

But with her, I was constantly telling her, Brenda, you're in pain because you really don't need more alcohol or another pill. You need to go talk to somebody. And I said, come, you know, come talk to me. Come, come. You know, we could talk. But she wasn't ready. She wasn't ready to admit what was happening. And, you know, she's no longer here because of it.

And then both of her daughters were in denial too. And I told them, I said, you guys are the only ones that could physically take her somewhere to get help. And they refuse to do it. Wow. Yeah. That's important. Oh, you have to. It's because mentally, like, you know, this pandemic, this year and a half of just being in the house has almost driven me crazy.

But I have a firm foundation. You know, I got my grand. I got three grandbabies, little ones, a seven-month-old. and two three-year-olds that, you know, they give me all the life that you to want to keep living to want to stay out there, exactly. Yeah, that's important. Were you, like, so were you able at all to just have sort of a moment of reconciliation with them after, after the group imploded in?

Yeah, and even, I want to say, before Valerie passed, she, we, she and I were, we were on, good terms because of the boys. We both have sons that are both in the music business and they just, they got an EPK out now doing six of our songs, hip hop style, Cameron and PJ. And then with Brenda, thank God, we, she and I had not spoken about for about three or four years. And right, 2016, we started speaking again and talking. And 2017, the year that she passed, it was April 3rd of 2017. She was coming. I was doing Essence.

Mary J. Blige had gotten me on the Essence Music Festival. And I had just told her Diana was there the night before. And she said, Shirley, why don't we go? I'll meet you there. And we'll go backstage and say hi to Diana. And I said, okay. I said, don't be surprised if I bring you up on stage to perform with me the next night. And I said, so are you ready?

She says, yeah, I'm ready. I'm ready. But she says, so I'm going to meet you there. I said, I knew she was still having issues, but I felt that if I could get her there, that would help, you know, encourage her, especially. Yeah, you know, to see the love that people have for the group. Right. But, you know, that night before she passed, we had just talked. And I said, okay, now, I'm getting ready to get your plane ticket so you could fly because she.

She was in, I didn't know, I thought she was in New York, but she was in Dover, Delaware with her daughter. And she says, all right. Well, I said, so I'm going to call you tomorrow and give you the plane information. And then 11 o'clock that morning is when I got the phone call that she had been hit by three cars. So, yeah. Yeah. But, you know, I feel them. Every time I'm on stage, every time I'm in the studio, and I'd be laughing sometimes because I, I hear.

you're Valerie drilling me, I'm like, Shirley, that note is a little sharp. You need to come down or, you know, or Brenda cracking, some kind of joke. So that's, that's one of the reasons. It's my therapy is continuing the legacy and singing, you know, singing and performing for the audiences.

Keeping the spirit alive. Yes, absolutely. Can I ask, what, what did it feel like when you struck out on your own and finally got your number one song? Oh, man. Do you get enough love? Yeah. I was, you're talking about excited because we had never had a number one. We had had like a number three and number five, you know, but we had never had a number one.

And when they called me and told me that it had went to number one, I was like, oh, my God, you don't, you can't. I was in Chicago on my way up to do an interview for Jet magazine. And once we got up there, is when Kenny called to say, you got the number one record girl. and I'm like, what? You know, and I think, because I think Us and Sweet Love had been battling going up. And then it stayed there for a couple of weeks. And I was happy, so happy about that. Now, the first performance was scary because I called myself, I went back to Charlie

Atkins, and he said, well, let's just take it a completely. You don't have to dance now, baby. But I decided to have. two guys and a girl so that to take away from the Jones girls as background singers and he put a terrific show together and the first night I was so scared it was in in D.C. at Constitution Hall. I was with Mays and yeah and I was and I was and I was like I don't know how people are going to accept you know the two guys and a girl and me especially when I'm doing most of the songs I mean I had to do Jones Girl stuff because do you get enough love was the only thing I had had.

And when I did it, when I did it, when I did it, getting ready to leave my hotel room, they brought up like two dozen yellow roses from Diana Ross. And she said, get it. Go get them, girl. Number one. And I, yeah, you know, and I was, it made me feel so good just to go out there and perform. And I did good. I mean, I toured within for seven months. So that maze tour.

Yeah, I did good. I guess in closing, I'll ask like, what, what do you, what do you want? Or is there sort of like a bucket list achievement that you've yet to do that you would like to do? Or what is it in the legacy of the Jones girls do you want the world to know? I want the world to know that the Jones girls recognized and realized that we were blessed with three absolutely beautiful voices that blended so well together. And we knew that and we also worked and practiced and practiced and practiced for that sound. And the reason why we practiced for that sound was to bring people the most beautiful. harmonic music that at the end of the day, at the end of the show, at the end of the record,

they would say, wow, they would feel uplifted, they would feel enlightened, and they would just feel joy and would just smile, because that was the goal for me and my sisters. And my goal now, no matter what I do, I just want, when I'm performing, all I want to do at the end of the day is for people to smile and say, man, we had a great. great time with that Jones girls experience. So that's it. That's beautiful. I had a great time, but you're not going to know. Thank you. We thank you. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. We we thank you for your music and your talent and, you know, and your sisters as well and your family. Oh, thank you. You know, upholding the, the sound of Philadelphia, my hometown. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. That Philly sound.

man. Someone, one of my fans said, Motown music had my mind. Philadelphia music has my soul and my spirit. Yeah. There you go. Yeah, there you go. There's the mic drop for you right there.

On behalf of Shirley Jones, this is Questlove, and on behalf of Sugar Steve and Unpaid Bill, Fontigo and Laia, we thank you for another great episode of Questlove Supreme. We will see you guys on the next go-around. Thank you. Thank you all. Thank you, bye-bye.

Yo, what's up? This is Fonte. Make sure you keep up with us on Instagram at QLS and let us know what you think and who should be next to sit down with us. Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast. All right. Peace.

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