The Questlove Show - Questlove Supreme: Speech of Arrested Development

Episode Date: March 15, 2023

Speech from Arrested Development joins Questlove Supreme for a comprehensive interview. The multi-talent discusses his Milwaukee origins and asserts his proper place as an Atlanta Hip Hop pioneer. Speech speaks openly about Arrested Developments' triumphs and tribulations, including sampling Prince, classic songs inspired by painful events, and the challenges of keeping a sprawling collective together. This interview is real, raw, and relatable—just like Speech's music.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed human. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits,

my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, the Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar.

This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, for wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slical Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. When a group of women discover they've all dated

the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed, I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that, trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe.

On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I got you. In 2023, Bachelor star Clayton Eckerd was accused of fathering twins. But the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax. You doctored this particular test twice, Ms. Ellen's, correct? I doctored the test once. It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing.

Greg Gillespie and Michael Manchini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, everyone?

I'm Ago Vodam. My next guest is... It's Will Ferrell. Woo. Woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. He goes, just give it a shot. But if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't

feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah. It would not be. Right. It wouldn't be that.

There's a lot of luck. Listen to thanks, Dad. on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Questlove Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. Ladies and gentlemen, it's another episode of Questlove Supreme. I'm your host, Questlove. We have the Almighty Team Supreme with us, Von Ticlo. Brother, how's it been going?

I'm good, man. I'm doing yoga. Nice! Hey, and Yasa Flo Tigolo, bro. I'm out here. We're down with dog and pigeon posing on all these holes, niggins. Word up. Yeah, that's nice.

All right, cool, cool. Particle are going to get his toll booth pass to go past 80, maybe to 90 or 100. Yes, I'm taking you to Bicrums. I'm taking hot yoga. I'm doing hot yoga. I run with you. Yeah, we'll get it. Yeah, that's what's up, y'all.

Steve, you next to as Steve likes a cigarette. I'm doing yoga, too. I'm going to start again, but everything's cool, working on a lot of stuff. You're doing, I don't know in your mind if it's like mocking or not mocking, like, with the network and all that. But I got to say in the last three weeks, like, you're doing like major, major shit. Like, you're not just like doing like rinky dink jazz records. Like, I almost feel like you're out here. trying to save jazz music.

Like, well, what's been going on, man? We got a lot of records coming out. It's JMI's the name of the label. We're coming up on 20 records. It's been like five years that we've been around. And finally got you on the label recently. We're mixing that record with David Murray and Ray Angry.

And yeah, well, there's a lot of great jazz labels out there, obviously still doing it. But we're doing it all analog with tape and never, touching digital in any way. So I can't find another label that's doing it like that, where it's completely purest and old school like that. So yeah, we're proud of it. And you know what else is turning five years old?

The sugar network. Wait, the sugar network is five years old? That's correct. This month. Where not? You started in 2018. Yeah, yeah. Started shortly after Questup Supreme.

It's a movement, man. The Sugar Network is the Army. better yet than Navy. Well, it's like a little fan club for this podcast, basically. That's how it's started, but it's expanding. It absolutely is. All right. Wait, so just to let me know, JMI, is your logo at least close to the CTI label?

There are some similarities to, we stole some of their design aspects for our stuff, but not the logo specifically. All right. But, yeah. Keep it true. keep it old school. Laya, how's it going? Oh, it's going good.

I got the flu, but I don't want to miss speech, so. You got the flu? Yeah, you know, talking to a bunch of niggas doing Grammy weekend, I'll get you sick. Trying to book people, but in the good news, oh, Quest Love Supreme, honey. I was on the strip with my leg and my skirt up. Like, come on, Nause.

Come on, Leslie Jones. Like, yeah. So I was working. Nowz might just visit the question. He said he would. he said to me he would he said to me yeah i want to oh it's not okay that's what's up that's what's up well ladies and gentlemen i will say that you know uh this interview is close to my heart because as a founder leader of of one of the most legendary groups and hip-hop a group really really

responsible for laying out the carpet for a group like the roots to come down and be able to have a career, I will say that, you know, this gentleman has pretty much made a profound impact on the music industry just with the level of, I guess, the first wave of Black Joy. Like, we weren't used in terms like Black Joy back in 1992, you know, we just basically called it alternative rap, but it's almost like, I'd never like the term alternative rap because Lauren Hill once told me that alternative rap just means like no skill. And, you know, that's definitely not the case. You know, besides being one of two people in the hip-hop field that have won best new artist for the Grammys, as far as hip-hop winning best new artists, I will say that his group's debut album really just set a high watermark for just music, period, just a feeling.

Definitely a blueprint that I followed. and it's this conversation is seriously long overdue. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to Questlove Supreme. I don't know if we ever had a one title person before. I'm used to saying like

the full name. I don't want to say welcome Todd Thomas. Oh. Refrescially known. Oh. Oh. Oh. I didn't even know. You know, I'm trying to make it

like you're a dignitary or a head of state, not just like, I'm not trying to be the po-po and. Please welcome my speech to Questlove Supreme. Thank you, man. Yo, no, that all of these words very much mean the world to me. I appreciate it, man. It's good to be here.

It's been a minute, man. It's been a minute. It's been a minute. Yeah, facts. Were you talking to us right now from where are you at? This is my studio. I call it the podium. And I'm at my crib.

So on my property, I have. a separate building and it's my studio so I'm in here. And is it? In the state of Georgia? Okay. You're still in Georgia, Fayetteville area. Yep. So you've stayed in Georgia that entire time of your career?

Yeah, since 1987. Yo, didn't we meet in Milwaukee? I know that you have roots of Milwaukee, but I'm trying to figure out if I met you in Milwaukee once. You guys were rocking a show at Summerfest, which is one of the largest music festivals in the world, actually. the world actually. Yeah, yeah. And I sell roasted corn at Summerfest. My father opened up a hot roasted corn stand business at Summerfest 46 years ago. And so my wife and I have been doing that business. Well, I was working at it since I was nine years old. Right. But my wife and I started working that business, taking it over for my dad for probably, I'm going to say 16 years or so.

So one year, the Roots was rocking, I want to say on the Miller stage, or one of the stages, it's at Summerfest. And I came backstage and hung out with y'all while you were there. All right. So I'm totally just going to throw away my initial questions because now you piqued my curiosity because I, too, am in the food world. But I got to know, like, how do you maintain that business? My dad, he was trying to get his foot in the door because we're the one and only black-owned food company in Summerfest. The Summerfest is huge. I can't say that enough.

I know. And so basically he wanted to get his foot in the door. They were offering sole food as an option, so on and so forth. But he was just studying the landscape and realized that roasted corn would kill for the audience that tended to go to Summerfest at that time. And so he was going in as a roasted corn business. And it started off literally bananas. Like so many people were into it. Like you were describing the dude that was outside of SOBs.

It was lines around the block for this corn. And not to mention, a black man selling it, all black workers creating this corn, roasting this corn, which is a big production. Like, unlike the dude that was on the streets, ours was a very big production. So we had tons of basically six, 700 degree roasters that were lined up. And we would put the corn on these big metal sheets and then turn the corn over once one side was done. And it was a production to watch as well. And people just loved it.

And so as a nine years old from that point on, I started doing it just working there. And then, you know, when I got old enough and my father was too old to run it, my queen and I took it over. And so. Or is he a chef by nature or? No, not at all. In fact, he learned. how to roast it the best that he could. And it was just dope. Everybody loved it. And it was way above any competitors at other, you know, state fairs because Milwaukee also has a state fair,

which is really big. It was way bigger than the people that sold it there. So everybody just started falling in love with Robbie's Roaster Corn. And that was my dad, whose name is Robert. Yeah, so he started that whole tradition. On a stick. Yeah. No, not on a stick. No. You roast it in a roast on a roaster, and then you pull back the husk, and you let that husk, you hold the husk. So you keep the husk. You know, a lot of people take the husk off. Mexican style. Okay. Exactly. And you hold that husk, and then you wrap a paper towel around it. You dip it. We dip it in butter, like literally a crock pot full of butter. We dip it in there. And then we have various seasonings, you know what I mean? from anything from lemon pepper to Mexican style, which is like a mayonnaise and so on and so forth rubbed on it.

It's better than fried chicken. It really is, actually. It's incredible. It's incredible. Yeah. And it's just a local phenomenon. You guys never expanded outside of Milwaukee or? Not in a huge way.

Not yet. Like we strive to get into Disney World and stuff like that and just work unsuccessful doing that. But the truth is is that we've done like, Atlanta, which is where I live. We've done Chicago. This is regional to where we're sort of based out of, but we haven't taken it national or anything like that.

Roots Picnic, 2024. That's what I'm saying. But even at that... Consider it done. I would do that, for real. Shit. All right. You don't say it?

Are you growing your own corn? Do you have a farm? No. I know there's a music podcast, but I'm just really interested in... I get it. I get it. it. We source our corn from different growers. So obviously, corn is very seasonal. So we try to make sure we get the best corn. We try to get a mixture of white and yellow corn. And so it's really,

really delicious. And it's just, I mean, it's more flavorful than your normal yellow corn. And so we get it sourced from different producers and, you know, farmers and stuff like that. Uh-oh. Here's my. Yeah, I'm, because I, I mean, I just purchased a farm. I don't have plans on utilizing it as a farm, farm, yes, there's a greenhouse to grow like vegetables and whatnot, but that's just like my personal consumption. Right. But again, because I'm getting into the alternative food space

and all those things and, you know, not to mention, there's a brother from Milwaukee, actually. Will Allen basically pioneered inner city urban farming. and kind of really like was the pioneer of that. He got a MacArthur genius grant for doing it. And I became friends with his daughter. And, you know, I thought it was silly. They're like, yo, man, no, we need to teach our people how to farm, how to.

Facts. You know, and I'm a result of it. Like, growing up in Philadelphia, I didn't realize that, you know, we had to go outside to the suburbs. We had to go to Upper Darby to find fresh fruits and fresh food. Right. You don't have that in the inner city. And so that's what made me interested in plant-based foods and developing that. And not like, you know, I think people tend to think like, we want to replace it or whatever. Yes, granted, yes, I know Patrick from Impossible Foods wants to replace, you know, meat, which, yeah, more power to. I truly, I believe in 20 years, what we know is food now will be phased out and we'll be like plant-based. But yeah, I'm just really interested when people get. get into the alternative space for those things. Yeah, totally, totally. Shout out to Milwaukee.

That's dope. Okay, so, well, Allen, dope. Yes, absolutely. Now, I'll get back to my real question. What was your very first musical memory? I would say it was seeing the Jackson 5 show on Saturday mornings. That was probably my first musical memory. And watching Michael Jackson and the Jackson 5, that cartoon,

slash, I think they might have had like real scenes as well. So I think it was a mixture. Yeah, it was a cartoon. And then they had a variety show too. So, yeah. Right. The variety show of 77th. I just found out that when the Silvers moved from Tennessee to Los Angeles, you know, they,

the Silvers, you know, they had an variety as a singing group. They've been singing together since they were kids. but when they got to Hollywood, one of the first jobs that two of the brothers had, one of the brothers in the Silvers was the voice of Jackie. And I believe, uh,

I believe Jermaine. Yeah, Jackie and Jermaine were voiced by members of the Silvers. Yeah. That's Steve. I did not know that. That is something that, uh,

we never mentioned that on the Leon Silver's episode. Yeah, I think it was, I think it was, I think it was Edmund, edmund and Ricky Silvers, I believe. I believe it was the,

Yeah. Wow. Could you tell me the very first album that you purchased with your own money, not given to you? Yeah, yeah. Well, I don't remember Detroit with my own money, but I remember my grandmother gifting me a 45 of Michael Jackson. Well, was it the Jackson 5? It was, damn, what was that song?

Shake your body down to the ground. Shake your body down to the ground. That was probably, yeah, that was my first, like, memory of having a record that was my own. You know what I'm saying? So I didn't buy it, but I owned it. It was my record. That was the beginning of my record collection, and it was just a 45. Yeah.

What did your parents do for a living? My mom, both of them are activists. My mom is the owner of the largest black newspaper in Wisconsin. It's called The Milwaukee Community Journal. So that's my mom. My dad is an entrepreneur in many ways. So he started gas stations. He started catering businesses, the first black-owned fast food restaurant in Milwaukee.

He started a nightclub called the Fox Trap, which turned into an arcade. And so, you know, he was just a. serial entrepreneur. He never owned all those things at one time, but he would do this business for a while, then he would transfer to this business and that business. So that's what my mom and dad both did. Yeah. Well, I want to know how easy is it or how easy was it for black entrepreneurs to start a business? Because, you know, for most of us, you start a business, first of all, by getting a bank loan. And usually for a lot of people that I hear talking about, you know, post-civil rights experience for black people, you know, a lot of the Jim Crowing attitudes pre-1968 were still happening, you know, long after, like way into the 70s, way into the 80s. Even one of the funniest stories I ever heard was George Johnson, who started the Johnson

Hair Empire in Chicago. You know, they single-handedly funded Soul Train, you know, with the approaching commercials and all that stuff. So he tells the story of going to at least 20 banks in Chicago and getting rejected by them all when he wants to start a business. and I believe he says that his uncle told him, I'm going to show you how to buck the system. I want you to return to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, bank.

And instead of saying that you want to borrow $2,000 to start a business, say you want to borrow $2,000 to take your wife on vacation. Wow. And they did it. Wow. Wow. Again, like, you know, like we don't talk about probably the, the, the main gripe of the systematic racism in the United States is the the rampant denial of bank

loans to start businesses. Exactly. Yeah. And so how is your dad able to start all these businesses? Because, you know, I've, yeah, this is a rare situation for me to hear someone that has like a dream and it goes in fruition and manifest itself. Yeah. I'm glad you asked that.

They pulled money together from other black families and people. And so that was their startup money. And then my mother, she was a school teacher. And so after the riots of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. being murdered, there was riots. In Milwaukee? In Milwaukee. Oh, of course, across the nation, but in Milwaukee as well. And they were, they looted and destroyed a lot of the black businesses.

Well, while those black businesses was striving to get back on their feet and got back on their feet, they needed somebody to advertise the fact that they were open again and ready for business. And the major newspapers in Wisconsin were refusing to cover these stories. So they asked my mother to put together a pamphlet. Initially, she did it. It's called the Soul City Shopper. And she was just doing it for free. Her goal was to try to get people in the community to realize that these stores were back open.

That started to happen. other black people that had a little bit of money, scraped it together and helped them to start what's now called the Milwaukee Community Journal. My dad used that money to start his first business, which was a small gas station. And then when that did pretty well, he used that money, so you get where I'm going with this to start his next business.

And he was the most, in 1980, he was one of the most successful black business people, well, business people, not black people, business people, in Milwaukee. But when he got to that level, the city literally, systemically destroyed him tax wise. And they came after him. They targeted him. He had a huge target on his back. And they destroyed most of his businesses. My mom, on the other hand, was able to keep hers and move forward. But his, he didn't have businesses. I would say past, I'm going to say, like 1987, my dad didn't have any other businesses that he was able to do in Milwaukee. That's how bad.

They put him into bankruptcy, tax issues that he had to fight all the money with lawyers. They spent tons of money trying to fight all of these things and just fell underwater. It actually destroyed my mom and dad's marriage at that time. So, I mean, all of these things obviously have effects. You don't know what I mean? Well, I would think owning a newspaper would be seen more as a threat than starting an independent business. On your mom's side of things, like how was she able to run that community? The segregated mind state, we weren't literally segregated, but the segregation mind state

really played a big role in her being able to sustain. Because the major newspapers refused to give coverage to a lot of the black stories, black death, black achievements, black joy, as you said earlier, her paper was that sole resource for quite a while. And then later, and that's the same, by the way, with my father. father's drive-thru restaurant he had called Robbies. And McDonald's... Name all of his businesses again. I don't. And so at that time period, McDonald's was afraid to have drive-thrus in the black community. They didn't want to do it. They had some

locations, but they refused to open a drive-thru. Well, my father used that, their refusal as an opening to start a business that did have a drive-through. Of course, just like any other people, Black people needed convenience on their way to work. They wanted to grab something to eat, go to work, so on and so forth. And his business took off. So it was basically their own ignorance and their own refusal to serve black people that allowed my mom and dad both to have a career. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along. the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, And for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never. mess with her friends either. We always say that

trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends... Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me?

The cops didn't seem to care. So, they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he serves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe.

On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else.

If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcasts on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. What's up, everyone?

I'm Ago Vodam. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Farrell. Woo-woo, whoo-woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and dad, I think I want to really give

this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come, look for up-and-coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot.

He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to thanks dad on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

In 2023, Former Bachelor star Clayton Eckerd found himself at the center of a paternity scandal. The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story. This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth. You doctored this particular test twice in so much, correct? I doctored the test once. It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case. I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for.

Sunlight's the greatest disinfected. They would uncover a disturbance. pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg, a lesbian, and Michael Marantini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trap. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.

Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at Americopa County as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges. This isn't over until justice is served in Arizona. Listen to Love Trapped Podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Is your entire family based in Milwaukee

or just like your mom and dad? No, so my father's family is from Tennessee and then my mother's family is from East St. Louis. So they both came to Milwaukee for exactly. Oh, you're from East St. Louis? My mama's from St. Louis. I just from everywhere. I learned something new every,

I did not know you had St. Louis roots. Oh yeah. Yeah, he's Cuffwood, all that stuff. Mm-hmm. I'm sorry, go ahead. I mean to interrupt you. So, sorry. No, it's all good. So then they came to Milwaukee and met each other during college years. And, you know, so there was some family there. But, you know, back in these days, there was this huge diversion from the, from the south to the Midwest to the West because of lack of job opportunities. So factories were opening in the Midwest.

And that's why, you know, Milwaukee was one of the places. that was on our radar back then as black people. Yeah. That's ill. All right. I got, this is a two-partner. One,

what year did you leave Milwaukee? 1987, the year I graduated high school. So I left literally a week after I graduated. I came to Atlanta. All right. Now, part two of that question is.

And this is weird that you leave Milwaukee for Atlanta in which the, which the unfortunate commonality thread of the two cities is that both cities are well known for two horrific crimes. Okay, go ahead. No, two horrific crimes against groups of black people. Of course, the Atlanta child murders and Jeffrey Dahmer. I keep forgetting that's Milwaukee. Right.

Milwaukee. And I, you know, I didn't know until the Netflix series that he started back in 1978. Like I thought this was happening like around like 809, 9091, but I didn't realize that his process was way slower. But did, I never had a chance to interview anyone from Milwaukee that, you know, or no many black people from Milwaukee. So I'm asking you to represent your entire city here.

but did you like did you have any family that was affected by what was happening with with domer at the time or like was that even in the news like were they reporting like missing black people or or is this just like another murder this week or no no it was definitely a huge story of Milwaukee and my dad lived in the same complex not in the same like area that Dahmer lived as Dahmer. So when my mother and father divorced, his apartment was there. And so it was a very big issue. When we found out about it, when it became big news and nationwide news, as a family, we were affected in the sense of knowing dad was there. You know, my father was there. So wow. Yeah, it was a very, very big deal. It wasn't just one of those sort of like things like, oh, something's happening over there. No, it was definitely, and by the way, Milwaukee is very black. So like Milwaukee that I did not know. Yeah.

We just think Laverne and Shirley and Happy Days. Exactly. Exactly. No, the city itself, I believe, I want to say it's 60 or so percent black. So if you go to Milwaukee, the city itself, because, you know, like Georgia, I know people come down to Georgia. Georgia is one thing, but Atlanta is another thing, right? And so it's the same difference with Milwaukee and it's a very black, black, black city.

Yeah. So Milwaukee, I'm going to talk about Atlanta. of Milwaukee was a very, like, the difference, the disparities between black and white people is, is and was so crystal clear in Milwaukee. Most Milwaukee black populations were either poor or lower middle class somewhere in there. And white people, on the other hand, had a, you know, a much better shot at being able to rise up the ladder in America in a sense. And so when I left Milwaukee in 1987 right out of high school, I came to Atlanta. And for the first time in my life, I saw black affluence and people being able, just black opportunity, black diversity, conscious blacks over here with Dysheekis and locks and stuff like that and corporate blacks over there. I mean, that type of.

Wait, wait. So that was in Atlanta? That was in Atlanta, 1987. I'll be very honest with you. I had a few friends and family members in Atlanta at the time. And really before the Renaissance, which I kind of, I mean, between you and like Bobby Brown, really Bobby Brown was the first person I heard like, wait, the success you have with this album, you're moving to Atlanta, Georgia instead of like Baldwin Hills and all that stuff.

I just always wanted to know, like, I thought y'all created what you know, as the Boho lifestyle, because I just thought, like, they're the pioneers of that. But you're saying that you saw that alternative boho scene in Atlanta. Yeah, yeah. So the West End of Atlanta, right? It's an area where there's a lot, well, especially before it got regentrified more recently. It was a very cultural landmark in Atlanta where you had, you know, African priests and African dance companies. and teaching about the importance of drumming

and the importance of language through music and mathematics through music. Like, these types of things were being taught and spoken of in the West End in particular, which is where Rest in development was really born in Atlanta. Like me and my brother, Headliner, who was the first person I asked to be in the group, he used to cut hair.

I call him Headliner because he was incredible at Barbary, like the man. And then, of course, you have to have, had all of these HBCUs there, right? So you have Spellman, Morehouse, Clark Atlanta University, so on and so Morris Brown. So all of that area was bubbling with culture and with revolutionary ideas and vision.

So yeah, yeah, definitely. I think people who would later see a rest of development, they would know, like if they were in that area, they would know that we came from that sort of frame of mind. But I will say we added the more rural aspects. So like what you're talking about as far as the need, you know, when you said my man, Will Allen was a pioneer in the sense of us getting back to the land and understanding the importance of land growth. That's the tip of rest of development in particular was on just trying to take us back to that route. So our videos were unpurposely that kind of energy.

If you remember the Tennessee video and people every day, it was always in that rural South just to be able to bring us back to that, you know, that eco self-determination, you know what I'm saying grow our own food, do our own thing type of energy. To hear you describe it, I would assume that your parents weren't, were they musically inclined at all? Or did you have siblings? So, yeah, I did. I had a brother. Your brother. Yeah, my brother, Terry. And then my mom was big on adoption and on fostering.

So throughout my childhood, my mom would foster numerous kids. And then one of them that she actually adopted was from Accra, Ghana. His name was Bright Boatine. So he lived with me as a child. And yeah, so I did have siblings. No, my parents weren't particularly into music, but I will say my dad being an entrepreneur, when he started his club, it was called. called The Fox Trap, one of the hottest clubs in Milwaukee at the time. I started falling in love

with DJing at that time. I was 13 and I became a DJ at that club because of just falling in love with music. So I wouldn't say he taught me from being musically inclined, but getting all those promo records back in the day because as a nightclub, he would get promo records from all the major labels. So, you know, I remember you posted recently about Yellow Magic Orchestra, right? And I remember getting, you know, vinyl from those days. They used to poke a hole in the bottom of it to say that it was promotional. Right. Yeah.

And so I would get vinyl. And my dad, not knowing about music, would ask me to basically curate what his DJs would play that night. So I was like always digging into the crates, you know, as they say. So, yeah, I think that's where I was sort of taught music in a sense was through that as opposed to them teaching me, you know, them having musically inclined skills, you know what I mean? Why did you leave Milwaukee in the first place? The opportunity was very rare Milwaukee. Like, no one had made it out of Milwaukee except for Al Jirol before us.

He's from Milwaukee. Yeah, he's from Milwaukee. And he had Kuku Kou Kau. And Koo Koo Kow was much later. Yeah. Yeah. Wait, who? Kuku Kow.

Yeah. So that's, yeah. He has a documentary on Amazon. You should check it out. But yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, so like at that time, nobody was making it from Milwaukee.

Eric Bonae is from Milwaukee. That was later. You know what I'm saying? So there was a lot of things that was later. But at that time, there was nobody making it. There was no opportunities. I used to tour Detroit to try to spend time with Juan Atkins. I'm sure you're familiar with Juan Atkins.

Hell yeah. Yeah. So like Juan Atkins was by electronic music god. So like. Wait, he was nice. to you? He was very nice to me. In fact, he liked my group at the time, which was before Arrested Development, called Attack. And so that was like the closest opportunities we had was like Detroit. You know what I mean? And obviously in hip hop, even Detroit wasn't on yet. You know what I

mean? Chicago wasn't on yet. So, yeah. Atlanta wasn't either though, really? No, it wasn't. But Atlanta had much more opportunity than Milwaukee. So that's why I chose Atlanta. Plus, I wanted to be in the South. Like, I spent all my summers with my grandmother. in Tennessee. And I fell in love with the South. I fell in love with the whole idea of the South, especially the nature aspect, not obviously, you know, oppression and slavery, you know, not that, but like the realities of land ownership and self-determination of growing your own food, exchanging food from one household to another. So if you didn't have money, which my grandmother didn't, she still had everything because the next door neighbor had collards and the other neighbor

had, you know, sugar and the other neighbor had yams and meat. And so it was this, this self-determined community or communal of the South that I fell in love with, you know? I feel like that's progressive thinking because I would just think in the late 80s, like everyone I knew was still trying to migrate to the north, especially where hip hop was going. I mean, Romit Dupree himself, like, moved to New York City. And, you know, it wasn't until like, you know, the kind of gentrification and outsource, well, not even outsourcing, but just the, the overpricing of city living is now made a reverse where now people are.

Yeah, people are coming down. Considering back down south now. So, yeah. All right. So now that you're in Atlanta, what are, well, what was your first musical experience in terms of starting a band or starting a group in. Yeah, so I came to Atlanta to go to school because I sucked that school in Milwaukee. I graduated with a 0.9 average, which is a big time F.

Right, right. Exactly. That's under an F, you know what I'm saying? That's a G. And so I came to Atlanta because the Art Institute of Atlanta was the only school that I had applied to that would allow me to come. And I even had to write a letter of acceptance there to tell them that I was going to change my tune, so and so forth. So the first week I got there, I put up a flyer because I wanted to start a crew. And I was a DJ, but I was rapping more and more and more.

And so I put up a flyer for a DJ. And I hung it up at the lunch counter area, you know, where people were, you know, hanging out. And his brother named Tim Barnwell, later headliner, was looking at the flyer. And so I said, yo, you know, my name is speech. blah, blah, blah. And we just connected from there. And then we just started doing music vibe. And I started working for a brother named

Butch Winston at Kiss 104 as the DJ. Because back then, you know, DJs, not every DJ knew how to scratch. You know what I mean? So a lot of DJs were still mixing old school where it was the record faded out and the next record faded in, but it wasn't on beat and all that. You know, this is early years of hip hop.

So, you know, I was a DJ that actually knew how to scratch. I was studying DST and, you know, all of these types of cats, you know, Jazzy Jeff, you know what I mean, and so on and so far. You said you introduced yourself to Tim Headliner, Ask Speech. How did you, can you tell us the origins of you choosing that name? Yeah, so I, in Milwaukee when I DJed, I was named DJ Peach, P-E-E-C-H. And it's because of the size of my head and the lights get complexion and, you know what I'm saying? Like that kind of vibe.

My forehead being extra nice. And L.L. Cool J was taken already. Exactly. And L.L. Cool J was taken already. By the way, we're both Scorpios, me and L.L. And both of us are named Todd. Both of us are named Todd. Well, James Todd. So, yeah, so I put an S in front of Peach when I started rhyming.

And to me, I wanted to rebrand myself. I knew I was going to the Peach state, and I didn't want to be known as MC Peach. I thought that was whack. And so I was like, okay, let me put an S in front of it. now it makes sense. I'm rhyming now. I'm doing the, you know, I'm letting the DJ sort of go to the background and my DJ and I should say go to the background of my movement and let me take speech. So I just put an S in front of peach. Hip-hop wise, before you go to Atlanta, who were you sort of, I guess, more attracted to in terms of like where hip hop was at the time? I mean,

there was kind of a West Coast or whatever, but like what was hip hop in? at the time. Well, Milwaukee was interesting because we liked all of it. So we liked world-class wreck and crew from the West Coast. We liked Egyptian lover from the West Coast. But we loved house music from neighboring Chicago, you know what I'm saying? So we were heavy on house music, but we loved D.C. in the go-go scene. We loved hip hop, obviously, from the whole East Coast, New York.

So we liked all of it. And as a DJ, I played all of that. You know what I mean? So I liked all of it. Like, I think that was the unique sort of entry for me musically and my musicality was such that all of it to me was dope as opposed to just one or two groups that really sort of dictated my direction or what I thought was ill. I liked all of it. You know what I mean? It was all dope to me.

So in going to Atlanta, for you, like, how do you take it from a social connection to, to, Okay, let's see we have something here as a musician. First of all, did you break your promise to the art school? Did you finish? I did. I finished. Okay, good. Yeah, I finished. With a 3.3, mind you, which I totally repented.

You know what I'm saying? I came back. You was doing something that you liked, so. Yeah, well, it was funny. I was doing something that I liked, but I'll be honest. It really was my black consciousness that made me do well at school, school because I wanted to be excellent as a black man. Like that was my, that was really my intention. Like, I felt like I wasn't being excellent prior and I wanted to really come with it.

Like, I wanted to come with it. So I studied harder. I was studying the Black Panthers. I was studying groups that was about our development. And, and they motivated me to do better. Like, okay, I need to do better. You know what I'm saying? So I did. I see that. Well, wait, you had a group before lesser development. Yeah, I did. Called attack, yeah. Okay, so what was, who was in attack and like what, what were you guys more or less like,

like stylistically? What were you like? I think we were a mix between UTFO and run DMC, if I had to say. And, you know. You got demos? You know, I do. In fact, we got records that we released back then. Oh, wow.

They're like classic. that, you know, collectors got. And, because we only pressed to 300, you know, copies. So it's nothing huge, but in Milwaukee, that was huge because we was the first rap group to put out records and to do our thing. So a lot of the fans that we had in Milwaukee loved it. But as I was saying, we couldn't break past Milwaukee. So even working with Juan Acres, so it just never happened for us. But in the group was myself, a brother named T.A. W.W. Rest in peace.

And Special K who was now named DJ Kmit, who's a beast as a DJ. That's how many. DJ Kemet was in this? DJ Kemet and myself and T.A. Wizz was the group attack. Wow. I never knew that. Yeah. That's my guy, man.

Yeah, DJ Kemet's the dude. Yeah, he crushes it to this day. And yeah, he was our DJ and I was a DJ slash rapper and TA was a rapper. T.A. was murdered, unfortunately, in the early 90s. Were you guys opening for established acts or like what were shows like in? Yeah, so like would attack, one of the sort of ways that we tried to get recognized was throwing parties ourselves. So my father, being an entrepreneur, would spend the money and hire DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince, who at that time only had a single parent. don't understand or girls of the world or nothing but trouble, I think it was.

And back then, they didn't have covers on singles a lot of times. So I didn't know what they look like. We hired them, and I say it in quotes because it wasn't them. I learned that later. We hired them for like $3,000 or what have you. And they came and performed their one song and a few other things. It wasn't even, it wasn't Jazzy Jeff and it wasn't Fresh Prince. Fresh Prince, the guy I saw that night was like three, 400 pounds.

it didn't look anything like the first that we now know. And so that was our opportunity to open up for people. So we was striving to like use this entrepreneurial attitude to find ways to expose ourselves. Is that crazy? That's crazy. That's crazy. For a second, I was thinking, okay, cash money marvelous were there because all right, I'm

from Philadelphia and both groups were sort of like kind of the same ilk, skill, turntable, is humorous, humor. emce oh that's crazy that's not the first time I heard stories of you know grifting from the hip-hop side I think

there's one dude that made a killing as Redhead Kingpin I don't know if you remember Oh yeah definitely written in the FBI but Absolutely yeah

Yeah for like a good year and a half this guy was making a killing off of you know scamming people doing nightclub

gigs or whatever as redhead king when did you realize the jig was up for like as far as those catfish I mean acts or yes yeah there were more there were more when no I wasn't anymore of that particular thing but like when DJ Jazzy Jeff and Fresh Prince when I first saw them and I forget which single it was

the label allowed them to have a you know a picture on a cup and I was like damn I think just like a year later or so And I'm like, wow, we got ripped off. And the show was whack. Their show was horrible. But I was like- Can you even scratch?

No, not. And you know that that was a DJ Jazzy Jeff, who for me is my favorite DJ. Did you ever tell him that story? Actually, I haven't told him that story. Wow. I can't wait to call Jeff about that one. Yeah, exactly. That's crazy.

It's crazy. I think in Seattle, well, I don't want to say like, Hey, we pulled the same scan, but there was a festival called Bumper shoot in Seattle. And the stars just weren't in line for me and Tariq to be at that show. But, you know, we were heavy believers in the show must go on. Like, we couldn't afford to give up one show. Right. And so, like, everyone but me and Tariq were there.

And it was early enough for people to not know who the roots were. Right. But until the last minute, one guy was like, Wait a minute, that drummer's skinny. No. And then like, it went from like one person to five people and then it was like damn near a riot. But they, right.

Dice for all was black thought. You know, they just, the check was in the mail. Like, we just ran out of town. So. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We catfish the city once.

Sorry, Seattle. I apologize for that. A win is a win. A win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep. That's me. Clifford Taylor the fourth.

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Woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up-and-coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah.

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podcasts. Why did you choose the name Arrested Development when you started the group? Like, was Arrested Development the next step after? My group attack? Yeah. After you imploded or? Yeah. So basically, we, you know, I left

Milwaukee because I wanted to go to school and I wanted to get to another atmosphere, another vibe. We We started off as a group called Secret Society in Atlanta. Then we had Disciples of A Lyrical Rebellion as our name. Then it was Arrested Development and that's when we got our deal, right? So all of those names was just conceptual. If you remember that in hip hop at the time, there was a lot of concept going on. So Public Enemy, for instance, was not just a music group, but they were a concept. You got the S1Ws. You got Flav. Exactly. Turned

Permanator X, you know, and even in other music styles, like even with Prince from the 80s on out, like he had Prince of the Revolution and the keyboard as a doctor, you know what I'm saying? And it was like in the time, you know, had had that character that they play, you know, and the whole mirror thing with Jerome. So it's like, so the concept thing was something that was just, it was accessible. It was things that people were into. And I love the name. So I love like punk rock stuff as well at that time. Dead Kennedys and stuff like this, it just had a certain ring to it. So for me, Arrested Development just felt right for what we was doing and the vibe we were on.

And in that moment, what was your concept for Arrested Development when you first started? It was pretty much the same as what it is now. So like, you know, our whole thing was almost like a play on Soul to Soul, where you had Jazzy, who, Jazzy B, who's like the DJ. But then he would have guests of different. type singing on it, you know what I'm saying? Exactly right. So like even Nelly Hooper and music makers. Yeah. Exactly right. So that that was sort of the energy with us, but it was more of Headline is the DJ. I'm the producer, MC, and I would invite every show I would invite

African drummers on. I would invite African dance troops to come and rock with us. So painters, live painters to come and rock with us on stage. So that was the energy of a rest of the development then and, you know, to some extent or another now. So funk jazz got it from you. I would say yes. Yeah, yeah. Funk Jazz, my man, Jason, or definitely was inspired by, you know, what we were doing. Yeah.

Okay, I'd be remiss if I didn't ask this question. Now, I mean, I'm a pop culture junkie. And, you know, one of my favorite comedies of all time also happens to share the name of your band. Now, I knew there was a situation with Vernon Reed and the Wayans family in terms of

Living Color and in Living Color. But actually, I believe in Vernon's situation, I believe Living Color actually, maybe for the pilot, took the logo of Living Color. So I know that it got to litigious proportions. But I always wanted to know when you own a name like Arrested Development.

Assume that you own the name Arrested Development. We do, yeah. Even if you're in, and I know you guys are still active, but do you have to be wholly active in order to maintain the name and does that allow you, like, how does that happen when another entity comes along with your name? Like I knew there was a situation where Prince actually owned the term the family. Yeah. Yeah.

And so when the family, the nothing that nothing compares to you one and done group that he produced in 85. Screams a passion. Yeah. When they imploded, he still retained the knight rights to the name the family. So when Diddy wanted to name his album, you know, Puff Daddy and the family for the No Way Out album, he actually had to break off Prince a little something. Yeah. Just to lease the name from him. but still prints still maintain that name.

So when Arrested Development came out, was it like, is it a separate copyright for television shows? Or when you own a rest of development, it's for any entity that's named that. Like if I wanted cereal or a sport or just something, you own it. So how does that happen?

Like, are you talking to Ron Howard or like? Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So what we, you know, how trademarks work is that, If the consumer is going to be confused about your product called Arrested Development and our product arrested development, then there's a trademark issue. So if there was a restaurant called Arrested Development, probably no problem. If there was, you know, a corn stand called Arrested Development, probably no problem. But TV shows tend to or can, if they're successful, have soundtracks that they put out on.

CD or record or whatever version is out at the time of music mediums. Sometimes they make movies in those movies, you know, there could be confusion as to when they put out a soundtrack and what we do. And so we had trademarked the name back in 92 or something. It wasn't like before we came out. We trademarked it after we came out because this was our first album. We're learning like, oh hell, you know, we need to trademark the name. So we did have to take Ron Howard and Fox to court because they had stolen the name. And you mentioned a few other examples. Did they know they were stealing the name?

Definitely. No, they knew. They knew. Oh, y'all caught us. They knew, but they assumed that we were washed up, we had no money, and that we couldn't fight. And so it was the wrong assumption. Yeah, they felt like we'll take it and just basically, you know, just steamroll them. And they tried to do that because, you know, these big corporations, they have a lot of money.

They have long money so they could go into court for, they could go into a little bit of a long time. And so I had to go into court to fight and I had to tell the story of how we started, which some of which I shared here, in front of the court to show the blood, sweat and tears of what this group meant to me. So it wasn't just a trademark to me. It was a thing. You know what I mean? It was a baby in a sense. And so when the people that was in court then heard that story, Fox and Ron Howard just said, okay, we need to settle.

And so we settled out of court. The show was already out at the time when we went to court. And we settled out of court. Wow. Always, always wanted to do that. Yeah. That was a night and you were satisfied. I'm trying not to be in your pocket, but you were heavily satisfied.

Well, you know, we were satisfied to an extent because they offered it, you know, they could put our music on the show. You know, there was all types of things we were negotiating. But we didn't know if the show was going to go well or not. So we just decided to go, you know, with an X amount and just move on. And then if it went to streaming, we get another X amount. So things like that, you know what I'm saying? We went into that kind of deal.

Wait, since we already did a Maljam episode, correct me if I'm wrong. When Malcolm Jam Warner, left the Cosby show. I believe that he did, you're already agreeing with me. When he did his episode, I didn't know the name of the show and I didn't know if I imagined

that Theo became a teacher of a bunch of elementary school kids, but I definitely remember, I believe that Tennessee was the theme song to, you know, Malcolm John Warner's. But I don't know if he was Theo or if he just played. a teacher, but I believe that he...

Yeah. I believe he was Theo. He wasn't. He wasn't Theo, and it was his first spinoff, or not spinoff. It was just his first debut as the star of his own show, and they did use Tennessee as his theme song. I didn't know if I imagined that or not.

Yeah, we went to the taping of that. Yeah, they only did like nine, I think nine episodes, but... Exactly. It didn't last. I forget the name of the show. Me too. I forget. I forget. Or, you know, it's all. those sort of black sitcom thing. Yep, facts.

Here we go again, starring Malcolm Jamal Warner. Right, exactly. Yeah. So in terms of musicianship, or at least you as a producer, you know, is anyone teaching you production by this point? Yeah, and what were you using? What were you making tracks on at that time? Yeah. Yeah, nobody taught me, unfortunately.

I wish I probably would have had that ever been dope. I was on a HR 16 Elis drum machine and in Sonic ASR 10, or before that, and Sonic EPS 16. So that was like my primary ways of like the whole first album, for instance, and second album was on those two instruments pretty much. Wow. Unless we hired somebody to come in play horns, like on a song you to play horns or so on and so forth.

You don't, yeah, pretty much my production was from that, you know, those two things. So how do the other members that we know of the group, speaking of like Dionne Farris and and Baba OJ? We know headline a story, but, well, first of all, you said it was sort of a community of people. Yeah. But the rest of development that we know. Yeah. How did you finally round up the final numbers in terms of Yeah. We're a group and let's go for a record deal. And how do you can make the label to sign all these people? Exactly. So that actually, you hit it on the nail because we actually already had all of these members. But when we got signed to the deal, you can't tour with 20 members. You know what I'm saying? You can't. It's not fine.

financially feasible, right, for a new group to go on a tour. So I had to try to make the best decision as possible of who to bring out on the road and make this sort of an official thing. In my mind at the time, it wasn't necessarily the official group members. It was just the people we could take on the road. It made sense that we all had different roles that we could play. And this was sort of stage one. But it sort of got solidified into that because that album was so big for us that, you know, those members was those members. Now, I will say Dion wasn't ever in the group as a member. She was just a guest vocalist. But how we, how me in particular and how we as a group rolled is we, we blurred the lines between who was in the group and who wasn't in the

sense of all of our, you know, appearances, all of our press tours. If she was down with us, then she was down. Like, come on with us. You don't say, just come rock with us, even though she wasn't actually in the group. And that's how it sort of got confused that she was actually in the group. Okay. Yeah. Wait, sis who was the dancer? I forget her name.

Ishi. Yes. Yes. Okay. So how did you meet them or incorporate them into the group? Yeah. Yeah. So Ishi was basically she auditioned.

She was 13 years old. And we auditioned her sister who was older than her. are probably about five years older than her. And her sister was going on tour for the first time in her life with James Brown, I want to say. And so she couldn't do it. And so she suggested her sister, her younger sister, Ishi, which her real name is Tamika. And so she suggested Tamika. She came to audition for us.

I actually didn't feel Tamika. I loved her dancing, but she was dressed sort of like Kwameh with the polka dots and that energy. It wasn't the energy that the rest of development was on. So I didn't totally feel her headliner, on the other hand, loved her style and her vibe and felt like she could change it to the more the Afrocentric vibe. And he was right. I mean, she totally changed on her own. Like once she got in the group, she changed her whole look.

She cut off her hair. She had a bald head. She was like dope as ever. And she just had this total energy that I totally miss, you know, but he saw that. Did she change her name for the group? Yeah, she did. She did. And, you know, I mean, I guess how most groups do, you know, people change their name when they start to sort of go into the entertainment realm as opposed to just using like Todd Thomas, you know what I'm saying?

Like I use speech. Her name was just Tamika Gaither. That was her name, you know what I'm saying? So she looked up black and, and what's her name? Stap, Mosho Ishi. So anyway, it's something like Black Life. I think it's Black Life. And she looked that up and came up with the name Moncho Ishi.

See, in my mind, I thought like, all right, speech is the ring leader. So he's like, passing out names. Giving these titles too. No, no, not at all. Not at all. I only name that I gave and it was more of just a, you know, a term of endearment was headliner. Because he was, you know, he was so dope as a barber that, you know, he was known for real. Like in the West End, he was that guy that the line was outside of the

store waiting for him to cut hair. So I gave him the name headliner, which made sense to me in a sense of, you know, somebody, you know, on the marquee being a headliner stuff like that. In y'all's episode of Unsung, you made mention of like, I think your original, you and Headliner's original arrangement was 90-10. It was a split. It was 90-you, I guess 10-him. What was your rationale in that in terms of like division of labor and, you know, what made that a fair deal to you? me, it was a matter of, you know, I'm producing the music. I'm the main writer of the lyrics. So, you know, just go back and listen to the record. And even on like Reigning Revolution, right, one of the songs on the debut, I would like, when the song comes on, I'm saying on the mic, yo, this is headlining from Arrested Development. And I come here tonight to give thanks to the rain.

And I'm talking, talking, and throughout the record, I'm saying things. I would often do that on records as a, what do you call it? A reference. A reference. As a reference. For him to come back and do it. Right. For him to come back and do it.

That's right. My point is that, yeah. And so like when those things happen, these songs were concepts that I came up with on my own. So that's why. And so managers generally speaking got like 10 to 15, maybe 20% max in my mind at that time. And I'm not saying I was a business dude because I wasn't. I was 21 years old, you know what I'm saying? So you're learning along the way, right?

I'm learning very much along the way. So in my mind, I was like, even though you didn't write these joints, I still want to give you, and that was my viewpoint. So you thought, and I thought, but you were giving him something for work that actually hadn't been. Facts. I mean, that's, that was my view at the time. You know what I'm saying? So in terms of your deal, y'all's deal with Chrysalis, was that who was actually signed, like, on paper like to that deal yeah just me and headliner were signed to that deal and and i and i'll tell you why

that happened because as i said earlier you know we had 20 members so we're there's a lot of people and so when we got the deal which was very unexpected but of course we were hoping for a deal but we got turned down by all the other labels so when this deal finally came through which was was initially a single deal actually that led to an album deal. I didn't exactly know at that time who was going to be out in the road. Who is this group? You know what I'm saying? Because we got 20 people.

Who is the group? So it was tough. So I knew me and headliner. That part I knew. So when it was time to sign the deal, I went ahead and did it that way. And obviously then things blew up. But that's tough because when you sign stuff, you don't know how it's going to go at the time. Like you don't know the record's going to go, you know, crazy and all of that.

So were the members who weren't in the nucleus of arrest development, did they wind up being, you had an offspring group called Gumbo, correct? Yeah. Oh, I was, yeah, I was like, I know. Yeah, gumbo. I was about to say, I thought you had something to do with Gumbo. Did the rest of the members go to Gumbo? No. So gumbo was a whole new, like to me, they were, they were my like, you know, family tree, starting to develop a family tree.

You know what I'm saying? Like sort of a native tongues, if you will, you know, where, you know, they were going to be my Fugees in a sense, but the Fugis weren't out yet. Okay. How long did it take to source a record deal? Like how long was the process of making a demo to? Literally. Three years, five months, and two days. Oh, so that's where the title comes from.

Literally. Literally. Wow. And what songs were y'all shopping? Like, what was on y'all's demo at the time? You know, it changed over those years, you know, saying so when we first started shopping, it was a different version of fishing for religion. It might have had Mr. Windle, I forget, definitely not Tennessee.

Because in fact, Tennessee was the last song. It's always that way. Exactly. Tennessee was the last joint, man. And it was only because I lost my grandmother, who I told you I spent all my summers with. And in that same week, I lost my brother, Terry. And so the last place I saw both of them

was at her funeral in Tennessee. So Tennessee was the last joint that I wrote, and it ended up being our first single, our first hit, too. Man. The print sample in Tennessee. Yeah. How did y'all, how did y'all pull that off? Because he wouldn't let nobody sample his stuff.

Well, no, no. Actually, he was, but I know he was pricey. He let hammer. It was like nice and smooth used, I want to be a lover and hammer used prey. Yep. Oh, nice smooth. No, they use, uh, they use, I want to be over it. Then the sky's the limited.

They also use what you call it. They use starfish and coffee, starfish and coffee too. Yeah. I forgot that one. You know, you know, Prince was, he was against sampling at that time. You know, he didn't think it was music. You know what I'm saying? Right.

And he was sort of offended. He was one of those people at the time that thought it was stealing, basically. And but I will say, you know, when we were released to stuff, the sampling world wasn't really solidified. Like the whole, we were saying rumors like if you were using less than three seconds, you're good. If you're not using the melody, you're good. If you're just using the beat, it's fine. So these were the sort of rules that were going around. It wasn't really solidified as to how that worked.

And so when I sampled the word Tennessee, I didn't feel like it was even a thing because I'm like, it's just the word. So it's like if you use something from a record like, yo, you know, or hook, you know what I'm saying? It's like it was sort of like that to me. It wasn't a thing. You know what I mean? That was how I was thinking at the time, you know? As much as a prince head that I am, I will actually say it might have taken me like four to five months for me to even realize that was a print sample. Right. Exactly. Exactly. That's the other thing.

Alphabet Street. Alphabet Street. We'll take it down, driver, Tennessee. Just one word. Take on the backseat. I got to ask. I got to ask. How much did they get you up for? So Prince did something really. I'm going ahead. Go ahead. No, no. Typical, you know, typically most groups will pay 25 to 50,000 for something.

but for one word i get the feeling you're about to tell me it's expensive good it was and what he did and this is pretty this is pretty shrewd on prince's behalf what he did is he waited for it to hit to the top of the charts and so we had already hit number one on the rap charts we hit number one on the rmb charts we got to number six i believe on the pop charts right and the the moment it went down to number seven we got a call and i'm not joking it was literally the moment it went down you Yep. And he was like, yo, I want 100 grand for that word. And at the time, I thought that was crazy, though. I thought that was crazy. But I get it now.

That's him being nice. And I didn't realize that. Yeah. He cut you a break. He cut me a break. He cut me a break. I didn't realize that the time. Because he could have pulled some sting shit and just. He could have. Yep. Yo, I want half the record. You know what I'm saying?

All the publishing and all that stuff. That's crazy. Yep. In those three years and stuff, did you guys have management and whatnot? and they were helping you with things because I know. So how did the whole Michael Maldine? Yeah. So our man.

So yeah, Jermaine's dad was our manager. Wow. Okay. Yeah. I didn't know that. And so, you know, back then, we had released a record in Atlanta and pressed about 200 copies. And we were, you know, passing it around the industry people. One of those people was Ian Burke, who's a very big music dude here in Atlanta.

and then he passed it to Michael Malden. Michael Malden at that time wasn't really huge. He had, he was, I want to say he was managing or being the tour manager, Silthimes Leather, which was Jermaine DePree's first major label signing, but they weren't huge. You know, they were just one act on a shelf of acts, you know what I'm saying? And so he said it to Michael Malden. He was sort of just like a tour manager for Brick, you know, the R&B band. And he was just wanting to break off into the industry.

He got the Silk Times leather hook up with his son, Germain. I knew Jermaine really well too. So, you know, it was just a matter of, okay, well, he's bigger than anybody else that we knew. Let's go with Michael Baldwin. He was dope. And he got us to deal between him and his partner, Philip Callow. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

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and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid games, stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care, so they take matters

into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft, and we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters

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Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. What's up, everyone? I'm Ago Vodam. My next guest, you know from Stepbrose, Others, Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell.

Woo. Woo. Woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming

talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but they're so. much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit.

If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. In 2023, former bachelor star Clayton Eckerd found himself at the center of a paternity scandal.

The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story. This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth. You doctored this particular test twice, Ms. Sond's, correct? I doctored the test ones. It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case. I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for. Sunlight's the greatest disinfectant. They would uncover a disturbing pattern.

Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Gregalespian and Michael Marantini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trap. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at Americopa County as Laura Owens has been indicted on

fraud charges. This isn't over until justice is served in Arizona. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Are you having any social interaction whatsoever with anyone in the lineage of Atlanta hip hop by the time you get down there? Like, are you, do you know members of the Dungeon family? Do you know Dre and Big Boy? or the goody mom guys. Like, are you running to anyone that six degrees to hip hop in Atlanta by that point? Yes and no. No, none of the dungeon family, because I didn't know them.

Like, they weren't a thing when we were first coming out. So when we were first coming out, it was other acts, you know, MC Shai D and people like that that was really making moves in Atlanta on the local scene. And it was more like, well, know, it was like that sort of Miami-based type of, style, 120 beats per minute or more type of style. And it wasn't really where we were at, but we knew all these cats. And all of the showcases that we did, they were on those same showcases or people like them were on those exact same showcases.

So it was very much the scene of Atlanta. And we changed that. You know what I mean? Like bringing a different energy to the Atlanta scene. Did you think that you had to leave Atlanta in order to make it like we got to move to New York in order to get it a deal? or LA or? No, we didn't feel that.

In fact, I didn't go to New York until right before we got our deal. That was my first time ever being in New York, period. So I felt like Atlanta had a good shot, like we had a good shot. It took us some years, obviously, to make some things happen. But I felt like we had a shot and there was a scene there that was very musical, very different, you know, than what was going on in New York at the time. Were there any other labels that were considering you guys before you- No. I mean, we tried all the labels, but at that time, we were just getting turned down, left and right, left and right, left and right. And this is prior to like, you know, obviously Black IPs or PM Dawn or any of those things. Well, PM Dawn actually did put out a record. It just wasn't, it wasn't huge just yet. But yeah, so it was tough for them to imagine, you know what I'm saying? You know, because the thing is, is that at least now that I look and sort of an aerial view of it, for me, the beginning,

of what they call the alternative movement of hip-hop starts with the Jungle Brothers. And, well, you guys are technically the penultimate. I will say that it ended in my eyes with diggable planets. Really before the, I guess you can say, the eclipse of what we call the chronic came. Right. And get it out of that shit. Yeah, part of my, not at the time, and you know, I've said this to Drey millions of times. that it took me really 15 years to really open up and admit that, okay, I like the chronic.

But I hated the chronic when it first came out. Yeah. Really because I saw, you know, the night that you guys won your Grammy was like right when Tarika and I were starting the roots. And I was like, okay, now, you know, this is the first step into alternative hip hop, getting, you know, a seat at the table. So by the time we get our thing together, it's going to be on and popping. And then, you know, and then Diggable Planets was next.

I was like, all right, great. First of the rest of development, then Diggable Planet's, then the roots is next. You watch. And then we get our, when we get to the train platform and the door is closed and then. Yeah. Yeah. We have to wait until like the late 90s in order to get the second wave in. But, you know, in your mind, how did you feel about the. alternative hip hop tag because you know what what I will say is that I mean people that

listen to the show know kind of my obsession with sort of like journalism music journalism in particular yeah and so one of the most impossible like Steph Curry from half shot eyes closed opposite direction shot going in moments and hip-hop history to me was you guys winning the coveted Paz and Jop Awards of 92, which, you know, I don't know if you were aware of it at the time, but for those that you don't know, you know, I'll say that Lester Bangs was the first, like, rock journalist that was like a star, you know, like a journalist that was bigger than- He was a part of the story. Yeah, saw himself as, you know, which is kind of a dangerous thing.

And then after the age of Lester Bangs, then a gentleman named Robert Christagal who started working at the village voice of which, you know, that's where like Greg Tade and all these other like black riders are coming up, Dreamhampton, like basically the first wave of what will run like the source and vibe in the 90s. But, you know, in 86, 87, 88, what's happening is is Robert Christagal is letting like a lot. of black riders get a seat at the table to start reviewing hip hop. And this is the first time that I'm reading reviews sort of sit in the native tongue of like a black person, you know? And so when I saw y'all win the Paz Job Awards. And the Paz Job Awards basically, Krista Gow gathers like 300 journalists across the United States.

And he asked them for their top 10 singles and records of the year. And it varies. So to get, like the last time I seen a hip-hop album win that award was a nation of millions. Yeah. Before that, a hip-out album hadn't won. So when you guys won that, yeah. I was like, yo, this is a fucking moment. At the time when you won that the past job awards, did that mean anything to you?

Or was it just like, oh, that's cool? Oh, that's cool. I didn't even know anything about it. In fact, I didn't know anything about it until you just said it now. What? I'm dead serious. I know nothing about it. Nah,

nothing about it, you mean, I'm telling you, I'm like, I'm telling you, why not? Wait, time out. You mean,

I'm telling you right now that like, right now, you won like three Michelin stars for your restaurant and you had no clue? No clue. That you got like five mics in the source

and you had no, no clue. I remember, I remember the past job, but like I ain't care of them white people thought, like, what was the source thing?

But no, no, no, no. It wasn't that. I know, I know that that's, that's a very, easy deflection, Fonte, but what I'm saying was Krista Gow made it in a very

even seat at the table. So this is a mixture of black critics and white critics. So that shit meant a lot more to me than B-A-Z-B and Jop and Paz. Instead of jazz and pop, they spell it Paz and Jop. Word up.

Right. And I wasn't saying that it wasn't, you know, that it wasn't important. I just meant from the standpoint for us, for me as a hip-hop fan. Right. We wasn't really checking for what their opinion was on hip hop. Yeah, I mean, like, it was just, you know, that was kind of what it was. I was. Sorry.

To me, that was like some of me, like, I don't know, like, often hard to achieve and you guys did it. But the fact that you didn't even know about it was even more crazier than me. Well, you know, also I hated the term alternative hip hop because I didn't, for me personally, I didn't get it. It didn't feel like it was an alternative or an alternative to the other hip hop. Like, I'm listening to, like,

Yo Bumrusha Show album, and they're sophisticated, you know, which is a rock song. And then there's all these live drum loops and stuff like this on Yo Bumrush to Show record coming from Def Jam, which was obviously a very legitimized label in hip hop. And it wasn't called an alternative record.

Chuck D sounded 100% different than any, in my opinion, least, NEMC prior to him. And it totally, you know, inflaved the concept of a flave and everything he did. And same with Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back record. Don't get me wrong, it was clearly we all celebrated that music, but I'm saying like, to me, if, you know,

too much posse and these type songs aren't going to be considered alternative hip hop, then I didn't get it. I didn't get what made it so alternative or, or, why it started with us. You know what? Something though, if I'm really, really truly honest, I was 21 when the album came out. And I didn't buy the album until Mr.

Wendell started until after I'm plugged. Okay. Then I brought the record. I spun, I'm a DJ. So I had, when I buy singles and 45s, it's for the purpose of like playing in the club. Definitely. So here's the thing.

thing though, when I hear Tennessee and essentially people every day, I remember having a little hip-hop debate arguments about is a rest of development, a hip-hop group or an R&B group? That's fucked up.

He rapping. I was 21, dog. But even then, because he was singing, because he was delivering so melodically, I just, in my mind, rap was, You know, the mic's on. One, two, one two.

And I didn't see that. So in my mind, I was like, yo, this is one of the most innovative R&B groups ever. No. Hey, another disclosure. One of my first debates with Missy Elliott was over the same thing because I made the mistake of let my opinion known on Twitter that I didn't consider Missy Elliott and MC more than I considered her a singer. I consider a singer that had skills as an MC. Oh, wow. And she lit my DMs up, boy.

Wow. The lyrics to the second verse, or I guess the first verse of people every day, how much resistance were you on a daily basis meeting from the hip hop guard that saw you guys as weirdos? Ironically, we weren't getting, like, from an in-my-own-body experience, we weren't getting, a lot of people doubting the hip hop origin of who we were, being in my own body. We were getting a lot of pushback from gangster hip hop at the time. I mentioned Ice Cube on people every day. And early to read from our group says, who? After I say his name.

So there's like a, now I meant for it to be a slight in a sense, right? because I'm trying to compare how I'm going to handle this situation compared to how Ice Cube portrayed himself. Oh. Exactly. Right? Wait a minute. Now I'm just hearing. Now I'm one second years old.

I didn't realize the, who? Yep. I didn't realize it was a question. I just thought. We all knew who Ice Cube was. Don't get me wrong. She was.

But at the time, I'll be honest. He did. And so did therefore Snoop. And so did, you know, others who were on the West Coast that were more so reping gangster hip hop in a more direct way, right? So there was that sort of, and not to mention every show that I did, and I'm talking about for 20,000 people, or arrest of development did, I'm saying. I would say that we're not calling black women bitches and holes. We don't do that.

Our peers do that. We don't do that. So I'm making a very clear statement about who we are, what we're doing and why it's different than what this dude's doing. So those types of things came off as basically, you know what I'm saying? Like, okay, you're down. You think you're better than, yeah. What happens the first time that you meet them? He was better.

Cube, Cube did that signature growl look that he does? You know, how he just, it's a cover of every magazine you've ever seen Cube, great. the cover of. He gave me that. Cube Scow 101. He gave me that scowl, right? And then Snoop gave me this sort of like cold thing at the Grammys. And it was that kind of energy. Ice tea at the time, me and him prior to us really blowing up, we're friends. But after we started to blow up, he distanced himself for me. So it was those kind of things that I felt. But it wasn't necessarily the whole R&B versus hip hop thing. It was more of the stance that we were taken.

And I think, now mind you, we're eating, we're eating at this time. Like, we're wrapping up award shows. So this is, this is scary. Oh, you're also winning. Yes. Yeah. So this is, this is like competition now. Like, okay, their stance is very juxtaposed to what we're doing.

And they're winning. Like, this is not an underground sensation. This is something that's actually taking awards from them, like the chronic and so on and so forth. Because of the, yeah, I mean, you guys owned, you guys own 92. Did it ever become a burden winning that much and selling that much? Because then again, it's also like, and I do remember, like, Cypress Hill went through a situation where, you know, the source decided to just start going out on them for their second album. Yeah. Because they thought like, oh, y'all ain't making hip hop for the heads no more.

Like we see, you know, white people dancing and slam dancing in your videos and you're doing like wallapalooza and all this other stuff. Yeah. So were you feeling as though that you were in danger of hindering the group? Without a question. Like, for me as a leader of the group, I'm worried about that every day. Like, every day I'm worried about this, this transference of black heads and fans loving our music. and it started to transform it to mainly white audiences now loving the music, mainly white critics, you know, harrowing the music.

It was like, oh, man, what is this, what does this mean? Like, because everything we're talking about is these black issues, but then the people that's starting to, you know, come to all the shows is 100% different. Yeah. We did Lollapalooza, you know what I'm saying? We did these huge, which I love these festivals, don't get me wrong. I'm with bands that I absolutely adore, Primus and Fishbone. And, you know, I love these bands.

So I'm loving this experience, but it's a, it's a hard thing to sort of reckon, right? Because you're this. To wrap your head around it. Truthfully, we're an underground hip-hop group talking about Black Liberation. And yet we're doing these big rock tours and we're doing things that I wouldn't take back to this day, but it was tough, right, to try to understand the trajectory. You know, what was going on? Carol Lewis, of course, gets immortalized and paid and full.

You know, Norby Walker is our agent. Carol Lewis is our agent. Word up, indeed, whatever. And so I remember the reason why my manager chose Carol Lewis is because you guys were a client and always working. And he saw the basic route that you took, you know, the festivals you were doing. And again, this was unheard of at the time in the early 90s. We live now in a

America just got on to festival fever, but Right. Right. And so, but one of the most shocking things was you guys wanting to do a chitlin circuit kind of,

you basically wanted to un, yeah, it seemed like you wanted to undo the progress of, of the first album. with Zingalama Duni because I remember this whole campaign of, you know, we're going to do

a Chitlin circuitore. We're going to do like small clubs and that sort of thing. I'm like, wait a minute, y'all sold $4 million. Like, I've seen you guys open for in vogue in the summer. Like, now's your turn.

Really, I was just mad because I wanted you guys in the shed so that way the roots get open for y'all. So I'm like, you know, I'm thinking like, wait, why are y'all in these small venues where you're not going to make money? Like, go back to the big venues. But, you know, why, what was your mind, the mind state of doing what you call the Chitlin

circuit run for, you know, the launch of Zingalamaduni? I felt like we had lost track with the roots, no pun intended. I felt like, like we weren't. connected with the people and the machine had gotten so, it became so much a part of everything that I felt scared, to be honest. And I felt like I was floating and my feet weren't on the ground. Like, I didn't know what I was connected to. And so we went that direction. To me, it reminded me of what De La did after their success with three feet, right? So their next record was De La's dead, right? So to me, I don't know. I know them, but I've never talked to them about this. But I

I have a feeling that it was their way of saying, okay, let's get back to something that has more, I don't know, roots for something than the whole hippie thing. Like, we could take that and we could keep going with the hippie thing, but I think that they purposely wanted to kill that and go, you know, to something that they, that felt more real to them. Yeah, I was saying, man, I was surprised, you know,

I was very surprised. I thought ease my mind was going to be, like, out of here. I thought that would be, like, a bit. You know what I mean? Because I was like, okay, this is them. It sounded like y'all. Like, okay, this is them, but, you know, that was my gym.

Yeah, that joined. What was the relationship with the label like at the time when y'all were making that record? So it was a perfect storm because the label was going through huge changes so that we just made them, I don't even know how many millions, right? Right. And what tends to happen with these big labels is then their presidents start getting changed and people start getting changed.

And, you know, they start to- brought you in the building. Facts. start losing your team and the people that you're working with, simultaneously the group is going through it. So internally, me and Headliner are going at war with each other behind the scenes and we're going to everything. You know what I mean? And that was demoralizing and horrible. And the music industry was changing. You know what I'm saying? Woo was coming in. It was a different energy from what was happening in the early 90s. And well, it still was the early 90s. But like 90s.

91, 92, had a different energy than what would start to happen. We'd becoming more more popular. Naz's Illmatic was out. So it was like, it's just all of those things combined made it a little bit of a different landscape. You know what I'm saying? That landscape internally, group-wise, musically on the outside, and label-wise. So with the remix for people every day, wait, did you make both at the same time or was it

after the fact, after the album was done? after the album was done. And in fact, when Tennessee blew up, which again was the last song we did on the album, right? Right. So, and so if you can imagine the whole hip-hop argument versus melodic singing argument, there was not really a melodic singing record on our album except for there was two songs, a song called You and a song called Rainey Revolution. But none of those were planning to be singles for us. So by the time we released Tennessee, as our first single, unexpected but last minute move, it was a melodic style. It did so well that I didn't feel confident. I wanted to make a run of this, you know what I'm saying?

Because I wanted this to work. So I didn't feel confident that the version of people every day that was on the record was going to do it. But the label wanted to release that as a single people every day. The version that's on the record, that's not the version that became the one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. So I was like, yo, I'm doing the singing. style on Tennessee, let me try to basically recreate that same song, different groove and

different melodic style. So I re-sang it, went into the studio, brought the rest of the group in, we did that we did that version. I felt like that was the right call. And it was definitely the right call. Yeah, it took off. A win is a win. A win.

A win is a win. I don't care which I'll say it. Yep, that's me. Cliver Taylor the fourth. You might have seen the skits. the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

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There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that, trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist.

I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends.

Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast,

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And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. What's up, everyone? I'm Ago Vodam. guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really

give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really, really sweet. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on

a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right. It wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. In 2023, former bachelor star Clayton Eckerd found himself at the center of a paternity scandal. The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story. This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth. You doctored this particular test twice in someone's, correct? I doctored the test ones.

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This is Love Trap. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at Americopa County as Laura Owens has been indicted on Fraud charges. This isn't over until justice is served in Arizona. Listen to Love Trapped Podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Basically, you know, between Tennessee and people every day and Mr. Windle and natural, you know,

I never have that much faith in record companies for like having a plan and successfully executing that plan. Facts. Me either. So who's the person that's going to claim the credit of it was my mastermind thing? Because, you know, not for nothing, but we followed, we saw that blueprint and was like, oh, this is obviously a blueprint for success. Yeah. Like, will the label claim that, oh, we had a plan all along. We knew this is going to happen. Like, yeah. I would say, I would credit a team. And it was Michael Malden. It was myself. And it was Lindsay Williams. Those are the people, Lindsay Williams was our A&R guy at Chrysler's. He also signed Gangstar and released Step in the Arena album and stuff after that. So Lindsay knew hip hop.

He is from Harlem. Michael Malden knew us. He understood our vibe and I knew us. So I feel like between us, we were sort of coming up with what should be this, how should we navigate that? And the label just really follows suit. I'll never forget being a 22, I think I was 22 year old dude, going for the first time up to these tall high rises on Avenue of America's New York and having these meetings with all these execs at this long table trying to explain to them

why and how rest of development can make it. You know what I mean? And having marketing meetings, like talking about marketing strategies. So it's just tough. and it was, it's crazy. Usually, like, record labels, usually stories like yours in which other groups,

I mean, for every verse is development, I can name other alternative hip-hop groups that, you know, it could be the boogie monsters, it could be me, five, me, it could be, shit, the roots for the first three or four records. We got my other word for that alternative, but, well, no, no, I'm just saying which the label just doesn't have a clue on harder,

how to market. And let's be honest, a lot that was selling was also due to the momentum of a controversy. You know, if someone gets shot, if someone goes to jail, if someone has a backstory, then that's easy marketing. But that's not on the labels part. They're just exploiting that. And always just, you know, the stars was a lining for this. You got to talk about working with in the Malcolm X. I can only. imagine like I was really excited seeing revolution for the the end of it I have to know though when Spike's approaching you about this in your mind especially in 1992 are you seeing having the the flagship song for Spike Lee film is it pressure because I mean we pretty much

are thinking like oh you got to come with someone the level of fight the power something like of that level or debut. You know, like there was one point where a song associated with the Spike Lee film could elevate this. So like what is that like? Like how did that all come about? It was it was incredibly stressful because public enemy smashed it right with fight the power. And the way Spike position fight the power throughout the film made it such a pivotal part of

that film. I mean, it's an undeniable part of that film. Right. You know, it's part of the fabric of the film, not just the soundtrack, you know what I'm saying? So coming in after that was extremely tough and I felt a lot of pressure, you know what I mean, to like to try to make sure that it was, look, I mean, Bomb Squad is a whole crew, you know what I'm saying? But for me as a producer, still with that ASR 10, you know what I'm saying? Right. And H.R. 16, at least Yeah, I'm striving to make sure that it, that it has the layers and that it has the potency of something that deserves to be in this film, but also making sure that it's still us and not somebody else. You know what I'm saying? Making sure it's still who we are as a group and what we do.

Knowing how tenacious spike is, you know, even for like, we did a song for bamboos or whatever. So I know how Spike is in terms of him putting the pressure on you. Facts. How many times did he have to come to you to be like, because even Chuck will say, I think, I think Keith Shockley told me that Spike didn't like the first three drafts to fight the power. Yeah. And the fourth time they finally nailed it. Yeah.

You know, because I was asking Keith, like, why name something, fight the power and not have like the Isley brothers or a reference of that? And he talked about like, we did a whole other thing. And then Spike was like, nah, this ain't it. This ain't it or whatever. And I often know that sometimes it's hard to take criticism from a non-musician. Yeah. They just don't know or whatever. And, you know, you guys have like four top ten singles at the time.

So it was like, you could have easily been in Can't Tell Me Nuttainville. Yeah. So like how much back and forth was it until he was like, that's it. That's the one. You know, it's funny, we didn't get a lot of back and forth from Spike on that. And he was very hands-on, though. So he was in the studio when we recorded that. He was shouting revolution.

He insisted that it be an anthem right from the jump. And so he really trusted in me to deliver. And he didn't give me any, the only fighting back that he gave me was the video, because I wanted to have a more militant video. Did he shoot it? Yes, he shot it. He shot it in Brooklyn. We shot it in Brooklyn with him.

It was amazing experience. We shot that entire video in seven hours. And if you look at that video again, again, you'll see probably two, three, four, five hundred people. I'm not sure marching down the street with us in one scene, another two, maybe one or two hundred people in a classroom with us in a school. I mean, there's a lot of sets.

And we did all of that in seven hours. It's just amazing, amazing. So yeah, it was definitely his hands-on experience all over it. But he didn't give me a lot of fight back. And prior to us, Gangstar had did, it's a jazz, thing for Mo Better Blues. More better, right. And that took a little bit of the pressure off, but for me personally, as big as the group

our group was, I was really wanting to, you know, go somewhere near that fight the power energy. Okay. All right. I got to ask the question. So, again, long time listed is no of my journalism obsession. So without really getting into the specifics of it. I kind of want to ask you about the aftermath of it.

And we actually did an entire episode with Daniel Smith, writer. And at the time, I was living in London. And there weren't American publications. You know, it was hard to get, you know, now, like everything's digitally colonized so I can get the same magazines that you're getting all across the world. So, you know, I'm getting care packages from my publicist. in the States to London. And of course, you know, the print issue,

a Vibe magazine comes out. And, you know, I had never experienced a black takedown article before. And I internalized, like, I almost felt like that was my group she was talking about. I think maybe these questions I'm asking simply because, like, vicariously,

I was living in your footsteps and whatnot and okay, what they do. That's what I'm doing and they do that, that's that step and that. So, you know, I get the magazine. I read the Prince article and everything. I was like, all right, read the rest of development article. And trouble in paradise was the type. I was like, yo, like, you know, I'm used to, in black journalism,

I'm used to like write on a magazine. You know what I mean? Like, hey, what opposites do you find? attractive in the opposite sex. And what kind of foods do you like? So this level of journalism I'd never seen before. Yeah. I'd never seen a takedown.

And for those of you don't know, a takedown article is kind of where I believe the artist doesn't realize that they're being ambushed. Facts. In the interview. Can you walk me through the process from which you found out that this article was not going to be the. the glowing A plus report card that a registered development had been getting up until that point. Yeah.

Like, can you just walk me through it? Like, it was, it was literally a kick in the ass. Because I was cool with Danielle. Like, she came to Atlanta. And she said this.

We hung out with Daniel. It was all love. Like, it was so much love. And we needed that article because we, Because we had already been facing backlash. We had already been getting a lot of different narratives about where we're going, who we are. Not from a internal group, like any beefs going on in the group, but just from a standpoint of what I was saying earlier, as far as, you know, now we're sort of these pop music darlings, which we never were on that tip.

But that's what we had sort of become to some extent. We're winning all these awards. We're going these big Lollapalooza Rock Tours and all of this. So that article was dear to me and it, for me, it was a sister, a black sister that's come down to Atlanta to hang with us. So she had total access to everybody. And long story short, unknown to me. Was that always the protocol? Like, because even now, like, me and Tarique do the roots interviews.

There's 11 of us, but it's Mick and Keith. Right. You felt comfortable and just letting, hey, talk to everybody. I did. I did. So you didn't know it was coming? Not at all. Like that was 100% one of those like, damn.

When I read it is when I knew that that's what the take was. Because that's not what I was getting from Danielle in person, like eye to eye. Right. And with the other members with me too, by the way. So like we're with her and I'm not getting that. Now my issue, she talks to everybody separately as well. And, you know, this article starts to listen, there was, there was turmoil in the group. I'm not denying that.

But that wasn't the narrative of where we even were at as a group. So we were going through turmoil, but we were marching on. Like that's where we're at. We're going to, y'all were going through turmoil, but y'all weren't trying to sell it. we were definitely not trying to sell it. And also we weren't, it wasn't the major narrative of where we were at as a group. It was a narrative, it was a narrative,

but it wasn't the narrative. So when I saw that article and it was the narrative of the entire article, I was like, it lost my faith in journalism from that point forward, because I was like, damn, like that was, like you said, it was a takedown. and I don't know what she said. I don't even know if y'all addressed this when you interview her,

but it either had to have been some type of thing where, you know, it was a good look for her to do some kind of story or maybe our boss or uppers was like, yo, come in it this way or whatever. I don't know what it was, but it was crazy. You know what? I don't want to put words in Danielle's mouth, but I definitely, I don't, I can't even, right. It wasn't, it wasn't a, yeah, I did it. And so what?

like it was definitely a remorseful like sort of afterthought and she explained like you you have to understand that i wasn't coming mean-spirited i believe that there was a pressure to not make and again you know as i explained earlier black journalism before the source before vibe magazine was basically just limited to either ebony magazine where everything was glowing yeah or right on magazine where everything was kind of frothy, you know what I mean? Facts. But not like real journalism. And so I remember her feeling like, I believe she said that it was a very conflicting thing to do.

Like as a journalist, do I tell the truth or do we protect? Because, you know, also I know the rules of black people is that you don't spill your dirty laundry in front of world to see. And me reading that article made me uber obsessive in terms of who we talk to. Like that was the point. That was the point in which I started, you know, studying every journalist, every byline looked at other articles they wrote. Yeah. Even to this day, I mean, I'm not as vigilant now as I was. But yeah, it just, for me, I was just like, yo, like, this group is might, might never recover from this.

We didn't. How did you, so mentally and physically to go that high and then to be in a car crash that wasn't by your intentional design, but still a car crash nevertheless. us, how did you guys continue with promoting the album or, like, was it a rap after that? It was a rap after that. I mean, by and large. And so for me, I'm literally pissed at her. Like, dude, I saw her at events and I literally, you know, saying, I won't go there. And I was pissed. And I didn't talk to her at all. I just, I was literally bitter towards her. I think for me it was the first time I saw sensationalistic journalism for me.

It was my first introduction to it. So like you said, articles prior were one thing and different magazines covered things in one way. But after I saw that, I was like, oh, okay. Because it's one thing to say the truth about there's some beef going on behind the scenes. To me, I think I was cool with that. I was all right with that and that's why I was allowing everybody to speak. But to make that the whole trajectory of the story, it damaged us. And vibe was very much a huge deal at the time.

And from a black perspective, we needed that cosign at the time. Like we needed that from a marketing standpoint for this group. We needed that love in order to validate the direction we're continuing to go in. And without it, it was tough. It was real tough. No circle back for you and Danielle. I mean, at this age, I'm now 54. Yeah, I can circle back with her.

But I'll be honest, like during that time period, probably for 10 years, probably. I couldn't talk to her. Those are our petty years too, yeah. The height. Yeah, you know what I mean? I couldn't do it. You talked about around like 96, like when you did your solo record.

And, you know, you were, you were feeling suicidal at the time. what took you to that mind state? I think it was what you just talked about, Quest, was like it was the drop and how far it was. You know what I mean? Like, that's tough to digest for any person, in my opinion. Yeah, dude, I was going to say, we, that's, you're literally the first person to call me to do something.

So I forgot, like, you did a solo project. It was my first music video. I was in your video, You Foley, myself. Me, you Foley, Dallas, Austin. That's right. He was playing. keyboards, right? Yep, he was playing organ on that. And Ramon Harvey was your manager. I remember you and Ramon picking me up. You and Ramon picking me up from the hotel. Exactly. We had him on here too,

speech. Yeah. I mean, but I mean, I was a fan of yaws already. Like before I met you, the label showed me y'all's album and was like, yo, peep this out. So I was a fan already. And at that time, the label that was no longer Chryslist, it was called EMI and it was sort of morphine and DeAngelo was signed as well, but he wasn't out yet. So I was hearing a lot of the stuff that they was about to go into the direction of. And that's how I knew about Jaws. So I was like, yo, I love this group. And so that's why not, you know, reached out to you.

For y'all, when you were talking about, you know, being in that like kind of deep, depressive period, what got you out of it? How did you get through it? You know, it was through time, but also spirituality. In 96, I released my solo album in 96. I was very suicidal. and a woman that I auditioned for a tour I was doing in Amsterdam was a Christian. And she started talking to me and my wife. And long story short, I became a Christian.

And that truly saved my life. It truly made me think of things differently and see myself as valuable outside of wherever a record was at. And whatever the industry was saying in my music career was going. I saw a value outside of that. That changed my. 96 was also around the time I used to see you on campus. So you were going through all kinds of enlightening facts. And that was, I went back to school at Clark.

I never went to Clark prior, but I went to school in general back to college to really like to, I wanted to be around academia in a sense. And I wanted to be around that sense of learning and curiosity and things that I felt was more pure in life. Wait, you two went to Clark at the same time? Mm-hmm. He went to Clark as speech, Amir. Very brave. What was that like?

I dream of going back to college, but time won't allow that. So what is that like? Like, not starting over again, but just... Yeah, it was tough because we had already blown up. This is prior to Zingalamaduni, but it was after three years album. So we're huge. I'm very noticeable, very known. And so it was tough.

And our schedule was absolutely insane. So honestly, I could only stay for a semester. I had to drop back out because it just was, it wasn't doable for any long term, unless I would acquit the industry, which I wasn't willing to do at that point. Yeah, you were still actively releasing music and you guys were, you know, still there's a momentum outside of the United States. Facts, you know. Very much so.

Mace did the same thing. No, I don't know what it is about Clark, but Mace went to Clark after he was Mace too. So, yeah, yeah. Reacher Mace. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think his ministry was in the, was on Clark initially. Yeah. 30 years into this business, can you tell me like what have you learned? What have you, like, what your overall experience is in terms of what you learned, things that you could have changed or experiences that you've had? I didn't even ask about like, what does success feel like in 1992, 93, amongst. the people you meet. Like, did you even have an inner circle?

Like, did you become friends with other artists or not? So to answer that last part, yes and no. I mean, I was cool with, you know, certain artists, but not really friends, friends, because everybody was in the East Coast or West Coast, and we was down in Atlanta, and it just was a different energy. You know, back then, hip-hop was still very divided.

You know, it was West Coast, East Coast. The South was still not thoroughly respected. If you remember Andre's speech at the, wars. It's like, I'm saying, yeah. And that was that was after us. So imagine prior to that how little respect, you know, the South got in many ways. So so to answer the question, no, I don't think so. And also, I'm a very like everyday people kind of guy. So by nature, I didn't find super value in hanging with like clicks in the industry type thing. Like that wasn't my thing. So if we if we clicked, it was good. But that just not that that that was. wasn't what I was searching for in a sense. So you weren't going like making pilgrimages in New York to go record shopping with blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Or, no, when you come to Atlanta, come hang with us.

Yeah, I would start doing that later, like much later. But no, I wasn't doing that at the time. Does the Atlanta hip hop community look to you to know that you kind of like, kind of started this ball rolling in a way? Like, do you feel the respect from Atlanta in that way? Yes and no. Just when they meet me in person, know when it comes to document it. Like, whenever there's a documentary about Atlanta,

somehow we're sort of left out of it. And it starts with organized noise. And it starts with outcasted, goody mob. It's a funny thing. Let me go on record to give you the flowers and basically says that, yeah. And we really haven't run into each other all that much because. This would have been in person, by the way, in Atlanta, if speech was in Atlanta when we was in Atlanta.

Oh, he's part of the Atlanta run? Yeah, he was going to be part of the Atlanta run. Yeah. That was, yeah. Okay. Facts. Facts. I see, I see.

I'm sorry, I mean, there's an interrupt your wisdom, no, God. Go ahead. No, no, no, but I'm just saying that, yeah, no, I do acknowledge that you guys, you know, planted a seed. And oftentimes, yeah, history doesn't remember pioneers, like often people that come after the fact and sort of perfect a formula, that sort of thing. They get the flowers and they get the accolades. And, you know, you guys definitely, whether people really want to admit it or not, like, you know, you guys are. are responsible for a movement. You're definitely responsible for the movement

that I'm still allowed to participate, you know, 30 years later into my life. So I definitely, I thank you for that, man. That means everything. It really does. It means a lot. And then you just do a show with Christian and Tariq? Yeah, I did a show in New Jersey at the Pax Center

with Black Thought, with Yassine, with Christian. Yassine showed up. Did he show up on time? He did. He actually was on time. He was before time, actually, and he rocked. He did his thing. Raqin was supposed to be on it, and he broke his foot, our ankle, and then Chuck D.

was supposed to be on it. He got COVID, so. Right. But you killed it. So have you had any communication whatsoever with the initial original members of the band? What's the relationship like now? It's dope. It's dope.

So it's never going to be like it was in the early days, but we're like mad cordial with one another. Mad, you know, when we see each other, it's literally like seeing an old best friend, right? So in particular me and Headliner, because that's where the main split was, you know what I mean? And the group sort of split on one side of the other according to that main split, you know what saying? So Headline and I were cool, you know what I mean?

The issues are what it was, and I don't think it would ever not be. there but we're real cool and you know like if he has issues with his family I'm the first to call him and try to see what I could do you know what I'm saying and to help and vice versa so there's there's a lot of love there and I think as the older we've gotten the more we're able to um dead the stuff that you know is sort of irrelevant in the gist of time you know as time moves on well not to hint too much but you know it is kind of the 30th anniversary of that movement. So if there ever was a time to

sort of rekindle or re-spark a flame, whatever, like, you know, just having participated in an event in which we're celebrating our history. And I know hip hop has a lot of disdain for being seen as old or ancient or sages or whatever, you know, the non-sexy turn. is for for having age of wisdom but I've learned probably after the Grammy experience how important it is to acknowledge and celebrate a history and I agree I totally agree guys have that so I

you know I really hope that one day I see it all come back full circle because you know the world needs that because I still I still spend the music and the magic you know it's the magic still works. You know, so there's an audience. It's like a 70% possibility or 60%? What we're thinking? What are you thinking? No, I mean, it's, it's way, he's gotten way better than that now.

We worked all of that out now. Also, it can really, oh. Make it happen. Oh, last question. This is such a random question, but you talked about land and stuff in Georgia earlier. And I was just curious if you're linked in with those families that bought that 97 acres in Georgia. No, but I, that, that movement has been something that's important for a while. All, 19 black families bought 97 acres for a safe space for black people.

They're building a community. So, average, it seems so in speeches like Lane. And it doesn't have anything to do with Dr. York? No, no, no. What? And it's dope houses, too. They're building pretty well. I'll send you the article in there.

Yeah. Yeah. I want to see about that. Well, speech, brother. Brother, thank you. For taking the time out to speak with us. And thank you. You know, again, you're a legend, and I thank you, thank you so much for doing this with us.

This is QLS, y'all. Another classic episode, speech, our guests on the show, Shooka Steve. Thank you, speech. Man, thank you all. Thank you. Fonsegolo. Yes, sir. And Alia.

I'll send you the article, Amir. Of course, on behalf. I know once I hang up, I know there's like a question I forgot to ask. I know. I see you going slow, John, for you. I have my last question. Oh, yes. Can we wear a name of horseshoos?

Perfect ending. What's Love Supreme is a production of Iheart Radio. For more podcasts from IHart Radio, visit the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying.

Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the Fourth. have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galko, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, for wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Slical Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe, on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

In 2023, Bachelor star Clayton Eckerd was accused of fathering twins. But the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax. You doctored this particular test twice in selling, correct? I doctored the test ones. It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg Gillespie and Michael Mancini. My mind was blown.

I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, everyone? I'm Ego Vodom. My next guest, it's Will Ferrell.

Woo, woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. He goes, just give it a shot. But if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be.

Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.