The Questlove Show - Questlove Supreme: The Family Stand (Part 1)

Episode Date: April 8, 2020

Best known for their early 90’s international hit single “Ghetto Heaven,” the trio of Sandra St. Victor, Peter Lord and V. Jeffrey Smith tell their story of coming up as musicians and songwriters in the 80s and more! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. 2%. That's the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. And on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange, modern world. Put yourself through some hardships and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person.

Listen to 2%. That's TWO percent on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show.

This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. On the Look Back at it podcast.

From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84's big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors.

Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. It was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Of course, Love Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. Check. One, two, three.

Check, check. Check, check. So. Check, check. One, two. Ladies and gentlemen, sometimes you just have to go with the flow. Steve's looking mad nervous right now because we're not following the rules of the show. from an engineer standpoint.

But I don't know. I just felt the need. We don't have to do roll call every time. Right? We don't know how we're going to clear this shit, but it don't matter. I will say, yes, first story is if you're tuning in late, this is Quest Love Supreme on IHeart Radio. And we're still here with three supremas

because I have them locked in chains. See what I did there, guys, locked in chains. Yes, yes, yes. Boss Bill, Lyin, Sugar, Steva, with us. Apparently, unpaid bill met a woman named Lady Sunshine. And he left us a dear John note that said he ain't never coming back. Fonciclo apparently is still smoking very strong cigarettes, and he said he'd be back for visitation Sundays in a month.

Indica. So what I will say is that when time has passed and the smoke is cleared, I really hope that the storytellers and the history must be. and the history tellers will be kind to our next guest. Whether as a collective or as individuals, as an artist, producers, songwriters, or just plain old session musicians, or just three really talented musicians, our guest today have made impact in history,

and they march to the beat of their own drum, their own weird drum, whether we know it or not. Sing is Steve. And I'll be honest, I think Bill can agree with me, Boss Bill. can agree that the gems of the discovery for this episode alone rates 10 on the Oship meter. Yes, yes.

And we graciously thank them for doing us the honor of celebrating with them 30 years of truth, weirdness, cleverly hidden snark. Hello, Van der Waite, how you doing? Zero compromises, as far as I know.

Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome the one and only. Peter Lord the Jeffrey Smith and Sandra St. Victor a special treat for all you music experts and nerds and connoisseurs out there professionally known as the family stand.

Yeah. Wow. Now, every intro has to be like that. I know, right? Right? I think a new standard has been said. And I really had a good roll call, but, you know. I had two of them. I knew one of you all was going to steal one on them. No, see, I wasn't even going to do the obvious one.

I have to say that this is one that I didn't see coming. Really? Why? I didn't see it coming. I just, now I see you coming. I appreciate it. You know, just when your name appeared on the wish list of, oh, family stand, when I do Questlove Supreme, we're like, Roo.

Thank you. What are you talking about? I'm happy. Boss Bill's happy. Everyone's happy. I'm not worried about a thing. You're not worried about a thing. That's what's that.

So, has this always been this way with you guys? Like you just pretty much, yeah, no doubt. Break out. Is that the bond that kept you together the music? The music has always been the thing. I mean, we can hang out and have good fun.

And, you know, we are compatible outside of music. But the thing that always brings us back is that music. Because we are like, I call them my musical soulmates and I mean that sincerely, they literally are, I mean, I've never been connected or bonded with anyone the way I am with Peter and Jeff.

And I call them my people. powers towers of powers powers that be the towers when I'm between them I'm the safest that I am in the world

okay well here this is a tradition on Questlove Supreme because any guest that comes on the show I always want to find out

what brought them to where they are now and you know the first question I always have well there's three of you now so this is going to be an extra long episode

this might be this might tie Jimmy Jams record Can I take my shoes off? For six hours. Yes. That's why we brought you to a reservoir. This is home.

Okay. I'm like, wait a minute. You got feed made for radio, so sorry. I got radio feed. I'm good. Thank you, sweetheart. Brothers. So, thank you.

Thank you. They know. What I'll do is I'll go from my right to left. My first question for you, Pete. Yes. Is, sir. First of them, where were you born? I was born in Brooklyn, New York. Really?

I'm from Brooklyn. Okay. Same hospital as Michael Jordan. Nice. Off Atlantic Avenue. Okay. Wait, what hospital is that? What did you say?

What hospital is that? I think it was St. Joseph's or something like that. Off Atlantic. Yeah. Okay. And Sandra, where were you? Dallas, Texas. Yes, I know you were.

Big D. Yeah. All right, so you're the Big D and then Detroit's the D. Okay, the D. That's another thing. Okay. So the big D. All sounds good.

Ride that D. You know what I'm saying, Jeff. Oh. HR. Never saw. This is XM radio or triple XNM. And V. Jeffrey. I was born in Harlem, Harlem Hospital.

Really? Yeah, the old one. Oh, okay. I'm a man of a certain age, so. The old one as opposed to? Yeah, the one that's here. It was one on 305th and Lenox. No, it's not Lennox.

I think it's a little further over. Really? Okay. Yeah. It's the old one. I said I'm a man of a certain age, so I don't think people even know about that one. An older, okay. An older Harlem Hospital.

Like Frederick Douglass was born there, right? Same time. Oh, yeah. We start early. Here we go. Here we go. Y'all in the right place. That's all right.

So then I'll ask what year. All the way for that. Sandra, what year did you come to New York City? 182 okay yeah visiting a few times or you

you've officially just I just rolled up and it was a crazy roll up but yeah I rolled up in 1982 really it was crazy kind of the opening

to a song that wasn't written yet welcome to the jungle like you got off the bus it was freaking nuts you know it was a Royer's roll up so okay

he's had a set up and it was there's a whole thing there but yes I got it okay we got time now

no no no I'm I'm gonna get to that. Okay. So I'm just, my first four questions are always just the basic foundations of who you are as individuals before we get in the collective. All right. So what is, Peter, what is your first musical memory? Very first musical memory. This is going to give away age.

But this is right. We're all mature here. We're all mature. That's right. The first song I remember hearing was hit the road jack. Okay. That's my first musical memory, hit the road jack. And then I remember being, my sister having a party at around, I think it was 1968 or nine,

and she played that Sly album, and my life was never the same after that, though I didn't realize it yet. But the really reason I got into music industry was, was, because of Satan. And that was because... And he falls in you till this day. And I tell you why, I know a lot of us, you know, people of a certain, he would like to say that Jesus got into music, but Satan got me in the music because of the movie The Exorcist.

And I'll tell you why. Because the movie came out and I was so afraid to go to sleep. I started playing the radio every night. And that's... Ah, I went tangential. Oh, tangential. Yo, we were tangential. All right.

So I was, so that's, every shadow was like, you know, Linda Blair, I turned their head around. So I started playing the radio every night. So I waited in the morning. I got this new song. I'm so tired of being alone. I thought about that all myself. Really?

Oh, that was Al Green? Oh, but then I kept hearing Stevie and those people were doing the radio during that. I'm like, oh, I think I like music because I'm hearing songs in my head. Wait, I got to say something. I don't think I've ever shared the story before, but now that makes sense

because when you think of the boogeyman or whatever, the first thing you want to do is distract yourself from whatever you think is under the bed or in the closet. So you put music on to be an invisible roommate. Frank Zappa had, did a film, a short film with Bill Plympton, uh, yeah, 1973, whatever. And it came on Midnight Special, but this thing, like, he turned into a demon. I mean, if you know Frank Zappa's music, it's like,

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like four fingers turned into 75 billion fingers. And I had nightmares of Frank Zappa forever. And so, thus, my mom, I totally forgot. That's how music really, I had her on 24-7 because I was scared of Frank Zappa getting me. Yeah. That was it. See, we connected, bro.

So, Sondra, what was your first musical memory? In addition to the first music that you purchased? or owned and the moment that changed your life and brought you to music. Okay, well, so the first and the last question, I'm probably about the same. And that's the first musical memory. My parents and my aunts tell me about stuff that I did when I was two, like playing the piano, and they said I was fiddling around playing, and I figured out that the scale was joy to the world.

So they said, but they said I was two. I don't remember this, but they tell me, said, you were two, and you said, and I said, George to the world, the Lord, that's come. So, but it was George to the world. I don't recall that. But my first musical memory is I had chores and I had to clean, dust these coffin-looking, bedazzled lamps in the living room. And as I was consoling myself while I was cleaning, I started singing. And as I was singing, I said, I'm a singer.

I was like eight. I said, I am. I didn't say I want to sing. I said, I am a singer. And it's new. And it's never changed from that moment, never, anything else. And so, yeah, that was the first, that's like the first real solid memory. And that also is the last question.

That's the thing that changed my life as far as, it was no question at that point, who I was in my own, you know, in my own, you know, skin. I knew from that point. I forgot your second question, though. The first record you purchased. Ah, okay, so, yeah, the first thing I probably purchased was Songs in the Key of Life or Larry Graham's Mirror. That's the first thing I probably purchased.

Nice. Yeah. Yeah, because I was young, but I had a little allowance, and that was about that time, and those were the first albums I had. Songs in Keel Life and Mirror. Yeah, I love that. Jeff, what was your first musical memory? Around my house there was a lot of music

because my mother, she sang, and she used to have like these parties. Well, I don't know exactly what to call them now. Uh-oh. Was there a car game? Was there a knife? There was a lot of stuff going on. And Jen?

There was a lot of stuff going on. A blue light or red light. Me and my sister was under a chair and watching them play music all night. But at the same time, the music that we would listen to was things like Brooke Benton and the first thing that, the song that I remember is Booker T and the MGs. What's the song that, but, uh, green onions, right? Right.

Until this day, I say Stevie probably caught that with, um. Oh, for higher ground? Higher ground. Because when I first heard higher ground, I said, Stevie Jacked that song. You know, I mean, he added his little twist, but that's probably, Probably the first memories of and also I was made to love her. Okay. That was, but the music that really changed my life was music of my mind.

Really? There's another observation I'm making right now that's rare for our guests. It sounds like that at a very early age music isn't an obstacle in your households Usually with our guest on the show There's like Charlie Wilson Like people have to sneak To listen to the records

Like the only secular record they're allowed to listen to Is what's going on or that sort of thing So you're saying even at an early age In discovering music your parents were No doubt What type of parents did you guys have that were so open to Oh Well I had a parent

That's a can of worms. Well, can you hear me? You can hear you. You're not a parent. Well, my mother was a nurse and my father was a communist, so that creates an artist. So he was open, he was open-minded to begin with, a little bit too open-minded. But so, and my oldest sister was into music and my father sang. So we weren't, we weren't, and I was baptized Catholic, so we weren't like a religious, Baptist,

Baptist, you know, music is evil type of pha, you know. So, yeah, the alternative. Semi-auternative. Yeah, different from what most black people at the time. Yeah, absolutely. Because my father was, actually, he went to, he graduated from Harvard. He was a lawyer. He was a columnist of major paper and a professor.

But he was seriously a communist and got caught up in the 1950s scandal. So his whole career ended up being a teacher in Jersey. city. So my parents got divorced around 1963. Is this when the violins come in? Well, explain to me the repercussions of that. If you, if the government was trying to vent out,

who was a communist based on? So even though he had, you know, he was a Harvard law degree and was a doctor philosophy and wrote books about history, the fact that he was a communist, he got outed and was he was taught at his school in Albany and was forced to leave there. Is your dad, Paul Robinson?

No. He hung up. Paul Robeson, there's a picture of him, there's a picture of him and Paul Robeson and Joe Lewis in this big, you know, party back in the, like, late 40s. He had me, like, late in his, later in his life. Yeah, I remember. I mean, what he just believes that he was just anti-capitalist? He was an atheist, in fact,

but my mother wasn't, even though she wasn't necessarily religious, but she went just, and my grandmother, Jamaican and very religious, wanted to make sure I didn't. How did that work? It's a lot of conflicts. Most Jamaicans I know are like, yeah, yeah. That's why he's a genius But crazy

Crazy So so my Are you Gemini? I was just about to ask him I'm a Leo Leo Yeah he's a Gemini You better be a Gemini

Because that's in your album Yeah Yeah so So they were open-minded In terms of that In terms of music So they you know They love music

And she actually wanted me to I think she wanted me To get music But my sister was actually Went to music and art And I didn't go I went to Erasmus high school

In Brooklyn Oh actually no I didn't I was went to War Women Junior High School in Brooklyn, and to make sure I'd have to fight the same people I did. And Warwick, when I went to Erasmus, I made sure I passed that test to go to Stuyveson High School. So that's what I ended up there.

Isn't that tip story as well? That sounds familiar. That's crazy. Yeah, so I ended up going, but I wasn't, music wasn't such a, there wasn't a block to music in my house and that, so that was fortunate. So was there a, most, the sort of hip-hop narrative is basically

with gang activity in New York in the 70s and sort of waning out in the 80s but was that an everyday thing in your your teenhood? I hear it a lot in the West Coast but you rarely hear it for. What the thing is let's say I was a different type of kid. Yes, you were. Yes, you were.

Yeah, we know how you survived and navigated this. Actually, I kind of ignored a lot of stuff. And not a conscious thing. I mean, I just wasn't into it, you know what I mean? So I was, I just wasn't, I was definitely into gangs of fighting and all that stuff. But how do you avoid it? Because normally they choose you. I guess they thought I was so weird.

They didn't know what to do with me and I just didn't, you know. You know. The mirror route. Yeah, I mean, I was just, yeah, I was just so kind of out, you know, and that I had like a weird kind of childhood like in Brooklyn. And so there was a lot of fights and stuff. And, but I was, as opposed to. get into the fights, I was kind of stupid kid in a way because I was scared of people I should have been scared of because they had a bunch of brothers and I had no brothers. But one day, one day,

I found out later was the biggest bully in the neighborhood, took my, we used to play this game, people don't play anymore called punch ball. It's kind of like baseball. You thought about punch ball. So this guy took my ball and I said, give me my boy, he said, no. And I punched him in the face. And then everybody said, do you know you just punched him in the face? You hit the biggest prisoner. Nice! I punched him in the face, but then it was like, do you know he just hit him? And then after I realized that who I hit,

then I was scared. But then the guy became friends with me and looked out for me. He didn't mess with you no more, right? But he looked out for a bunch of the other kids who were really tougher than even worse he was. Well, I'm glad you had that, because I can't imagine a childhood growing up where you don't have that one person that's like,

I'm gonna get boom the fuck you up Oh no I didn't Yeah I never had that So I just ran home Yeah

With the quickness So Sandra In Dallas Yeah Okay Is What was Dallas At the time

In your childhood Because Yeah I think of Austin As A blue city In a red state

Or at least They would Like to paint that Or now it is Yeah, for sure. We don't even know now. Texas is trying to go blue, right? But I'll say that the times that I went there, at least with my gracious host, El Head Rappo.

Is that me? Yeah, you. Oh, oh, Erica. Oh, my God. Head Rappo. El Head Rappo. She showed me size of Dallas that I didn't even know exist. And I've been there plenty of times.

and I was like, oh, there are people like me down here. What was it like for you growing down there? Yeah, it was like the two sides of the tracks, you know. And my dad, who came from, like, him and his brothers, him and his brothers, I mean, the first gun I saw was my dad's, okay? My dad was like a pimp back in the day, right? And, you know, I stumbled upon those pictures. But so Dallas, when I was going on, was very divided.

So he had decided at some point that he was going to leave the gang life behind a little bit At least on the front I wanted to use this You can you can You can because trust Let me tell you my daddy didn't really lead that shit behind

So what I'm telling you is what I'm telling you So he kind of like You know so he we got a great job He moved up for a black supervisor at the phone company All kind of crap But my mother's family lived on the other side of the tracks. So when we had to go visit them, we said, oh, snap, this is the real of real, right? So they lived in West Dallas and South Dallas and, you know, in little trailers and like 12 people in one house.

And, you know, we went to visit our country cousins. They didn't have shoes. So, like, you know, we was like, oh, damn, we're middle class. I mean, I didn't know the term for it then. But I look back on it, you know, I grew up middle class. Well, you know, I would say lower to middle, middle class. Yeah, close. You know, upper middle, middle class life.

You know, up up middle class life. Working class. Working class. But dad, dad's, dad's, dad's, like, you know, sort of gangster side never left. I mean, for example, when I remember I was with this duel. Oh, no. Uh-oh. Here we go.

I know where this is going. The story begins. Let me just tell us cute. I mean, so, and, you know, he wasn't treating me right. And he actually slapped the shit out of me one day. And I, like, and I was so stunned. So I got on a flight, and I was in New York. So I got on a flight, and I just went back home.

My dad always picked me for the airport. And he picked me at an airport, and I was just quiet. And he was like, what's wrong with you? I'm like, nothing. And he was quiet. It was a 40-minute ride. We almost home. He said, did he lay his hands on you?

He just guessed it. And I was like, wah. Bada boom, but a boom. No. Son, so we got home. He was, I never saw him get that red. He was like, life's game job. He was like, he got home.

He picked up the phone. Oh. He called, dude. He just said shit to me. He just picked up the phone. He brought my suitcase in, picked up the counter. He said, I'm on my way. He said, I'm on my way.

He said, he said, he said, because they'll do his name, Clark, he said, Clark, this is Mr. Matthews. He said, if you ever lay your hands on my daughter again, New York won't be big enough. Oh. I was like, that's so romantic. I'm not trying to protect me. I just want to know we ever heard from Clark again. No, actually. I didn't think we did, yeah.

We did not. Like, all right, that'll be enough but you sound like. No, I mean like, is he alive? I really could not answer that question. Honestly, I do not know. Okay. I just know I did not hear him work anymore.

He shut him down. So, I mean, he's done that kind. That's kind of thing he does. I mean, you know, he got cute when he got older, when he would just meet ladies. All my girlfriends, who would I introduce, he would flirt with. And tell them, I'm not a dirty old man.

I'm just a sexy senior citizen. Oh, even now. Embarrassed his shit out of me. You're going to use that line. Pull that one out. That was my dad and his brother. Did you learn how to handle the pistol? Oh, I did, actually.

Well, she from Texas. Yeah, I mean, I assumed, but I was like, I don't want you to. Is that, okay, I don't want to make any assumptions about Texas whatsoever, but can I assume that that's as simple as breathing air or water? At least we're taught to think. Shooting? Yeah. I would say.

I would say 70% I'm not going to say everybody you know what I mean because everybody most people don't know how to do that but I knew how to shoot or the parents definitely had guns so you come across it you know what I mean so I came across

the gun in my house my dad used to keep it on top of the refrigerator I'm like what is it on top of the refrigerator that's where the gun was so when he saw me like find it he was like okay well if you don't do the gun you know let me show you how so Were you the only sibling?

No, I had three. We're all adopted, by the way. Three siblings, yeah. You were chosen. Yeah. Nice. Three chosen kids. I almost shot my sister.

Wait, what? No, no, no. Let me tell you what happened. We were kids, right? And me and my sister were in my, my stepdad. I mean, I wasn't, like, familiar with my biological. So my mother had to be married, right? Oh, yeah.

And me and my sister was playing in her, in their room. Found a gun. And so we was reaching, you know, trying to look for things. And we see this gun and I'm thinking it's a toy gun. So I pointed at my sister and clicked. And then I pointed at the ceiling and it went off. They came in and they said, I didn't know what was happening. So they was wondering if something had happened upstairs.

I was wondering why they were. They were tripping. They were tripping. So I didn't know it was a real gun. You know, I was like, that's one of my earliest memories because I don't remember much. before I was nine. Well, that's Questlo's Supreme, ladies and gentlemen. Good night.

Good night. Steve is sober now. Yeah. Busco. Ain't nobody carrying, right? You know, the family's staying. You got an ass now. That's scary.

Yeah, that's scary. I mean, I remember that. That's, like, kind of a weird kind of thing. It's a blessing. Like, you're blessed. No, seriously. Your life would have went differently. Well, I don't, you know, I don't believe.

even luck or anything like that. But that was a... That's what's up. Yeah, I mean... Somebody's looking out. Somebody's looking out. 2%. That is the number of people

who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. And on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. I'll be speaking with writers,

researchers, and other health and fitness experts and more. to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry. We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong. Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are the result of stress. Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's T-W-O-P-Cent on the I-Hart Radio App.

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment,

and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes,

follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast.

I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack.

I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so... Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes, I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah.

For me, it's one of the most important years. from black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Bring you guys to New York now. What year did you guys meet? Not even as a bit, but like...

86. Okay, you're talking about all of us? Yes. Okay, let me take this one. Go ahead, break it down. Peter and I met through a mutual friend, Will Downing. Yes.

Me and Will Downing, we used to do a lot of work together. We were writing, sessions, all that stuff. And, you know, Will used to come over my house, and, you know, we used to write. So one day he told me that he knew this guy needed a flute player on a song that he was writing, right? And I never forget the song was in the thick of it, right? That's the name of it? I never forgot the name of that song.

So he let me hear the song. I said, man, I got to meet this guy. So he said, I'll bring him over. So Pete came over my house, you know, I said, that's Pete. He's weird. He looked like he had this like Larry Dany, six, five. I'm like, so we started working together. And at the time you were, you had a group, you were with Renee and Angela.

And Angela, right? He was doing them at first. Oh, I can't wait for the stories. We're not even going to get to the family stand yet. Just your collective experience? Oh, she's shaking a head, no, already? Every Renee's story is terrible. I'm ready for this.

I'm ready for the team. Zita was here. So it was Renee and Angela, right? They were producing the group. Yes, yes, yes. So somehow I convinced PSA, Pete, man, you know, we could do this ourselves because I was always into, you know, being in control of our own music. So, you know, we started working together doing a lot of productions and stuff.

and so we had a bunch of singers coming and doing demos for us because at the time we were doing stuff for Silver Your Own, Merlin Bob and Mickey Howard. Mickey Howard, you know, we did Mickey Howard. So all the weird stuff? The MacBank. Yeah, yeah, MacBam. We did productions on them and we had different singers singing our demos.

So Lisa Fisher was one of our singers. Now, I knew Lisa from, I met Lisa in 1983 on a session that I was doing for Billy Ocean, right? So she was in the studio, yeah, she was in the, uh, that's him. That's so casual. We'll go. We'll get to out.

That's his sax. We'll get to that. We know this. So, you know, I met Lisa then. So we kind of established a relationship over the years. And then she started, she did some demos for us too. And so did we get an offer to deal or we just started.

No, first we met before you guys got the offer for the producers deal. Because Lisa had to go do Luther. She had to go to Luther. Right. And so then she pulled me in because I met Lisa when she was doing the crystals and I still lived in Texas and I was doing laissez-faire. And so we hooked

up before I moved to New York and the crystals. The crystals? She was in the crystals. We do-up? Yeah, yeah. She was doing the crystals back in the day. Just traveling as not. Not as the original. No, no, I know this.

Okay, it was only one. That's my era. Like, yeah. Oh, no doubt. So it was like one original crystal and the other two, and Lisa was one of the other two. Shit, I did shows with Lisa Fisher and I never knew it. Oh, you were a kid with your dad. Dude, we did mad shows with the Christmas.

But that was like a du-op legend. Oh, that's crazy. Yeah, so. Yeah. So, anyway, we were using Lisa and a bunch of other singers, and we told Lisa that we needed a singer and she said oh my girl As Sandra lives in Dallas

and I could hook you up with them and at the time we were producing this group called the Mac band Who was out of Dallas, yeah who I think Babyface they produced roses are red right So we were producing some songs on that record So we had to go to Dallas to produce them And that's where we hooked up with Sandra

at a Luther Vandross show And I'll never forget Yeah Lisa invited us to a Luce Vandrosses show What year was this? 1980. I'm going to tell us there. Like 86? No, I had to be 86.

It had to be 85. 87. No, because it was 86 because I met Pete in 85. Was there air conditioning on in the stadium when you win? Yo, wait. But wait. Cassandra said I'll never forget. What once you ever forget, Sandra?

He was shady. I was minding my own business. She, you know, we said hello. And maybe because she was used to men melting over her as, rightfully so. But she just said hello. And I said, oh, how are you doing? And she thought I was being cold, but I think I just had some indigestion that day. It's like me and why your story.

I think my tongue was hurting like, oh, who's he think he is? I'm sorry to say Victor. Yeah, that sound familiar. It's good to see another dynamic because that's... I'm sorry to say Victor. It was just little Peter L.R. Six-five. She talks...

He's like, she's giving you command of everything. Come on. Come on. He looked down his nose at me. Jeff was like, hey, how you doing? Well, he's like six-foot billion. Exactly, exactly. But you know, he could like look at me, but not look. I was looking at the rest of you, baby.

You have what going on. Nice shoes. Good one. HR, but good one, good one. It was the 80s, really. So. Say that kind of shit. Okay, this is the thing.

I'm really excited that you guys are on the show simply because the one story that I've, not story, but just the one narrative that I never, ever got to wrap my head around was what was the environment like for, I guess, the black musicians in trying to navigate through the mid-80s, like the Marcus Miller's, the Bernard Wrights, the Tuatha G's, like, what is the stratosphere of you guys? Well, see, you know, all those people you mentioned, so basically all those people came

out of the session scene, right? Right. So the session scene was thick. It's not anymore, right? But back then, you had your West Coast session folks and you had your East Coast session folks and all the people you mentioned, Marcus was more west, but. Marcus was East East, but he ended up going back. Yeah.

But so, I mean, those people are mostly East Coast people and they came out of session. And record labels were looking to like, you know, push people to the front, like M2 May and Tawatha out. out of M-2-May from that session scene. So that's why you got the Mick Murphys and, you know, the Bernard Wrights and those folks that came from that scene. And also Pete and Jeff, you know what I mean? They were offered this producer's deal out of the, because they were doing all these sessions.

But was there a collective where like, I mean, I'm talking even deep, like with Shaka's brother, like Mark Stevens and all these monsters, Lenny White and all those cats? Yeah, we used to hook each other up, man. I mean, definitely. Yeah. There was a real camaraderie with folks. I mean, like Lisa and Brenda White King put me on, you know,

because Lisa knew me before I moved here. And she entered Brenda, and they all sort of took me under their wing, and they put you into the situations you need to be put into. So what was your apprentice situation? Like, if you say that Lisa was a Luther disciple, who was your apprentice situation? That would probably be Roy Ayers then, because, you know, that was how I first got up there, up here.

Where am I now? New York asked me. So, yeah, so it was Roy. It started to tell that story a little bit. Yeah, I got a lot of Roy's story. But you said something like when you came to New York and you were with Roy, like that's when you knew, things were different.

Like the way you entered New York was different. Oh, it was wild as fuck. No, no, let it out. No FCC here. Okay, okay, cool, cool. Okay. Yeah, no, it was definitely a... Put your clothes back on.

Put your clothes back on. I'm seeing Vic Good, no. Oh, close? We have to keep clothes on. Darn. I was trying to let the girls free. Hey. Another me too moment.

Or two me moment. To me. To me. That's a shit. I like that. To me. New songs. See?

See? That's how you come up. That's how songs come up right here. Okay. So, but. We'll get to that too. Get Roy. So Roy, he, I met him in, when I was in,

playing with a group with Zachary, bro. I don't know if you know who he is. And we had to use his equipment. So he came to our show and stuff. And after the show, he was like, I want you to come to New York. You're going to be in my band? I was like, dirty old man, you know. That's kind of what I thought.

Say, okay. No, I was like, ew. Okay. I was right. I was like, ill. Good girl. Yeah, but yeah, I thought he was, you know, just, you know, pushing up, really. So I went and told the band, I'm like, Roy Ayers asked me to, you know,

coming to New York, they were like, yo, let's go. And so I was like, wait, I wasn't really planning on accepting. They were like, no, you got it, just all go. So then I reached out to Roy, and I said, Roy, yeah. So the whole band was going to be says, I don't need the whole band. So, so. I want you. Wow.

That's going to be. I love you too. I was like, that's going to be awkward because they got the van. They got the transportation to get me there. So, so. Sounds like someone else we know. I'll give you a ride home. That is also the DeAngelo's story.

Oh, my God. Oh, okay. So I went, the whole band decided to come. I said, but he said he doesn't really need. So we got there and he took me and Zachary, bro. But when we got there, he had set us up to stay at William Allen's house. William Allen is an arranger, string arranger for all of those beautiful ubiquity arranged songs. He did all those string arrangements.

And we were staying in, I was, no, Zach and I was staying at William Allen's apartment in Harlem. And it was February 21st, 1982, and it was like, you know, 47 inches of snow on the ground. And the cab, like, picked, you know. Is that a gift of yours to recall dates? I remember this, definitely. Oh, just this story. I remember a lot of things like that, that, like, you're like, well, things that terrify you. You have a tendency to.

Okay. Yeah, because we, we passed, I mean, I'm from Dallas, okay? We have nice, large streets and stop signs and lights. Everybody follows the rules. So we got here. We passed by like two blocks. I'm like, sir, I think we passed it. I think it was back there.

He just said, okay, put it in reverse. And just like spread backwards, you know, like two and a half blocks in the snow. And, you know, on a one-way street. And I was just scared shitless. And we got there. And we stayed at Williams. And, you know, there was, he didn't have a bed. for us. He could barely walk through his house

because he was a hoarder. He had no food. And we were like, what can eat? He said, whatever he's fine in the pantry. Open the pantry, roaches jumped out. It was like, this is mine. I was like, oh, fuck. That was like my introduction to New York. You're back off.

I imagine a much freakyer story. Back off. No, I got a freaky story for him. but that's later. Oh, that's why I thought you. I got a Roach story. I got a real freakist.

Roeke is. Go ahead. It's a whole other freaky. Roy's story. He's crazy. Roy was over there. I don't think I can tell us. I know.

We had him on the show. Oh, you heard the story, John. We should have mentioned it. Yeah, yeah. Go ahead. Tell it. That's okay. No, Roy's nuts.

But yeah, that was. Okay. All right. I mean, that was just my introduction to New York story. That's what I said. All right. So you, I mean, this was obviously. was obviously just a conversation between the three of you.

And you're saying that you met at this Luther Vandro show? Met Sandra. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. A few years before that. Yeah. Well, we were going to try out different singers, but, I mean, I want to back a track.

Actually, because you didn't ask, the person was kind of really my mentor in a way was Jeff. Because he didn't know that, but he was kind of my. No, he's finding out right now. How many interviews have you all done together? Well, the thing is because I, like, I just come out of with the Howard University. You know. You know what the Howard you. And so I was there around the same time as Wayne Lindsay and some other people.

We're here. What year? What year? I graduated in 82. Was Leroy Hudson? Yes. Yes. Was he a teacher there as well?

Yes. He was a teacher there. Okay. Yeah, Leigh-Hudson? That guy? I think that's, I think you're talking about, yeah, I think, yeah, I think if that's who you're talking about. But I wasn't even the jazz band, but I had been, how the Renee and Angela thing, right, I think right, if I graduated or right, something like that. I was working with a friend who was a singer who was a singer named Raymond Reeder, a great singer.

Yeah, yeah, I remember. That was a group, right? Right, yeah. And had a female, too, right? Right, they were going to turn this into another Shalimar, okay? Yeah, so that's who, that's who, that's who, that's who, that's who we were. were going to be another Shalamo, right? Okay.

All right. As you can see, it didn't quite work. Y'all can't pop lock in? Yeah, couldn't pop, yeah. Six, five pop and don't really, you know, look like Pinocchio or whatever, trying to pop lock. But anyway, so I was in that bad, but that situation didn't work out. I won't get to the gory details of it, but didn't that didn't work out, and I went

back to New York. But I wasn't really necessarily in the New York scene like Jeff was. You know, sometimes I would hang with Jeff, and he was working with Kish, and I went with him up there and a lot of people who were there were like, who's the guy over there, you know. He's a weird guy. Who's the weird guy? You know, Jeff, no, Jeff said, no, he's cool.

That was the question. Yeah. I don't even remember you going up there. You went up there with me? They only let me up there once. Okay, okay. But when I was up there once there was a, because he had a whole bunch of songwriters

and they were like working and said, we can come up with these ideas and they said, well, you write songs, right? I said, yeah, I know, I write a little bit. So, so right now, and they were kind of jammed an idea, and I was like, oh, you're like, And I came, I started singing something. They were like, that's all right, that's cool.

And then I left. I think about maybe a year later, I kind of heard what I was singing that day. But, and I'm not lying either. But, so there was a, like, so I knew some of the people from Howard University, but in terms of like the New York crew and hanging all the singers and stuff, I didn't kind of really know as much as Sandra and Jeff.

But as we got a chance we produced a record like Jeff was saying, we got to do some stuff with Merlin Bob and said we were on the Atlantic and they said, I want you guys do a producer album and that's how it came about finding a singer. Right, right, right. But the thing is, since I was the outsider and the most fucked up one of the group, all right,

they didn't know people, you know, the instrument you're talking about that times and how people related. It was a click. Yeah, it was a kind of a click. I was never in kind of any clicks and I'd be like, Jeff, can I, can I go with you? So yeah, no, he's cool.

He's cool. He's cool. You know, but it affected kind of a sound the music because the 80s was a very unique time. I'm, unique time. It's like the kind of bridge as you know transition. Transition. It was definitely transition.

Transition. And all I know is whatever the fuck was going on in the 80s for me personally, I wasn't fucking digging. But I hadn't really realized what that was yet. So these things were really great, but there was a certain sound. So we started to make our album, why Saja fit in. All these singers, they would like, and it came from a little bit from the Kashif School. He made some real dope records.

It was like, it was a type of singing back there with background singers, love come down. You know what that kind of. Ha'n. Hey, who. And that shit was tight. This is my favorite episode of my podcast ever.

This is my dream. This is like talking to three am mirrors. Like all this random information. I don't have to say shit. She was like, hang who he. But, you know, but Sandra, when she said she was like, She was a siren.

She was that fucking Tina Turner kind of like, my shit is unbridled. I'm trying to be, he-hoo, but I wasn't really into that. So you didn't like the sheen and the professionalism. Yeah, I didn't know what that thing was. And we were doing backgrounds and the album,

I'd be like, could you guys not make it so clean? They'd be like, what's wrong? That was a Jackie Deeson double take for those on radio who didn't see what I just did. I see, I see. Dad, who's Jackie Leeson? But anyway.

So in terms of Sondi just fit into an energy that we had and we knew naturally. And even with our first album chapters, we hadn't really locked in quite to what that thing was. But all I knew was I didn't want to hear the shit I had been hearing. Yeah, yeah. Okay, well, let's get to that.

I think we could safely assume that the most defined sound of what the 80s was at least for the beginning of the 80s to the mid-80s, I mean, was the kind of sound that Prince crafted that Minnesota... Well, not for us. But there was buggy, I know, with the work that Kashif did and everything in Brooklyn.

He did big time with work, James. Leroy Burgess and... Any Leroy Burgess? Well, V.JF, you work with everyone. Did you... My life is a blurring. I mean, I have worked with a lot of people.

I mean, the 80s to me, I mean, I think the 70s to me was like the best time for music. Of course. But the 80s was transitional to me because the sound just changing and I thought people were just trying to figure things out in terms of

the sound sonically. Everything kind of just sounded stiff and perfect. And we just kind of had to go through that. I mean, even today, as much as we can get to anything that we want, sometimes sonically, things just sound kind of over quantized to me. Hell yeah. Yeah, everything just sounds kind of over quantized.

And it's not bad. It's not a bad thing or a good thing, but it's a thing. It's a thing. Yeah, yeah, it's numbing. Because the funny thing is I went to visit my son over the Christmas holidays. You know what I mean? I don't really celebrate Christmas, but, you know. I had to go see my son.

So he was taking me back to the airport, and we were listening to all this music, right? And I'm hearing one song, and everything sounds perfect. Everything, you know, harmonies, big drums, everybody's into the loudness and the, you know. So this one song comes on by this girl, I forgot her name. But it sounded so soulful, harmonies. As soon as the song finished, me and my son started laughing at the same time.

We started laughing at the same night. You know, he's my son, but he realized that everything sounded the same. And there's always like just kind of one song that will kind of stick out. And you realize how fucked up things have kind of gotten. And everybody's kind of just playing the, you know, I got to sound like the last thing, you know. So, you know, was I making a point here? Yeah. Or was it just kind of rambling?

Everything sounds the same. Yeah. Well, that's the thing, though. But in the 80s, you have to change. choose a path. And for sure. It's like there's boogie, there's

the Minneapolis Prince Town. There's also hip hop. How are you guys wrestling with what hip hop is becoming the fact that you're developing a craft, but yet you're people that just seem to... Well, I think what the key

transition was for us and then how it leads musically, is that there was this link with 60s and 70s children music. So, but then the music got electronic and slick.

Right. But what the bridge was was hip hop. So hip hop was feeding off of that rawness from the James Brown and the drums

and all that kind of stuff. In the late 80s though. In the late in the late, yeah, it was starting, yeah. In the mid-80, like have you guys

dealt with Larry Smith or? I'm just throwing out New York names. I know him. I mean, yeah, I don't know him personally. I don't know him

personally, but I know of him. I know of him. I know of them. I think the thought was, what I was getting to is like, we did a session. I went to, I was fond of Jeff, carrying Jeff's bags to a session one day. And it was, and I would just, you know, lots of that I would just sit there and be quiet and listen to people.

And they were doing a hip-hop record. And I was listening to it and I was like, you know, at that particular time, I hadn't really heard yet somebody bring the sensibilities of hip-hop of the drums that was happening underneath. with a melodic song kind of at that particular time. So that concept of bringing that together. And plus, there was starting to be on East Coast, certain rock records that I heard that I liked. And then listening to more soulful stuff.

And since we were called the stand, we were going to become the family stand and change your name because Yvonne Jeffries in the stand was too confusing. That story, we can get to it a later time. Yeah, but. That's what led to ghetto heaven, that idea of let me sing a song within the context of this hip-hop roar-ish type of beat. I'm going to tell them how ghetto heaven came to be.

What is ghetto heaven? I love that we're going to break down the song before I even get to how you guys got your group name, but let's go. You want me to tell you how the song came to be? Yes. You know Salam Remy. Yes, we do. He was kind of the inspiration for that song.

Because when we were on our first album, you know, we did the first album, the record company, you know, we were like that group that they didn't exactly know what to do with us. So they kind of fucked us around and, you know. So I said, I knew Saran. Who's your A&R?

It was Merlin Bob. Merlin Bob. You're on an electric? That was Atlantic. It was Atlantic. So Merlin Bob was that Atlantic? Atlantic. First?

Yeah. Okay. I remember his electric phase with Sylvia. Sylvia was. They were. They both went together. Okay. I forgot.

I forgot. Yeah. They were getting us all, me and Pete, all the production work, you know. Okay. But anyway, after that first album,

I knew Salam Remy's father because him and I grew up together. We did the children. In the Midland Circuit. You know, we did a lot of sessions together. So I said, Pete, we need to go talk to my friend Van, Van Gibbs, right? So Van was over there on 54th Street and 11th Avenue. I said, I set up a meeting him so we could kind of talk because we were getting kind of frustrated with what the record company was not doing for us.

And we had out a little talk and then we heard this music coming in from the basement. I said, what's that? He said, that's my son. His name is, I knew, that's my son, Salam. He's going to be a producer. He said, you want to, he said, you want to go down and listen? So we went down and listened to the music. And then he listened to the music.

He said, he came home and listened to me. He said, I got an idea. He said, I got an idea. So after we left Vans, we went straight back to Ebbisfield and worked on Ghetto, came up with a drumbeat. came up with a drum beat. Now, if you remember the original version of Red Ful-Y drummer.

With funky drama, came up with a bass line. That came from, because I was in love with Kulmodee. And I said, Jeff, I was in love with Kudmodee. What's that? He had a song, The Wild Wild West. Doom-Bu-to-Bum-to-boom-to-bo-to-bo-to-bo-thum-th. So then I didn't even know that. You remember?

I thought, I said, I like that bass. Why get the film? Y'all just mean each other right now. I know that bass line. Yeah. So then you changed. You said, Badoo-B-B-Do-boom-B-Dub.

So he was like, Babum-boom-boom. Yeah. I was like, I love that bass line. So then you like sort of fucked the word. You twisted a little bit. So the record company heard it. Yeah, but see, here's a thing.

Here's a thing. See, this is the piece of the piece that I always remember about the inspiration of ghetto heaven. Because the salam thing was part of that. But also the we had gone to the label, we had submitted the whole record. Right, right. We had submitted the whole album. And they were like, yeah, this is dope. It's dope. We didn't hear no singles.

Yeah, yeah. So we were like, son of it. And so excited. We was excited about the album and disappointed that they didn't hear, you know, because we felt like they were singles, you know? That was changed, right? It was changed. So we were like, I remember, I remember, you know,

eventually getting back to studio and was like, you know, we was just like, they just won nursery rhymes. They just won't nurse Rives They were like I know I love my baby No I love my baby

I remember He did the same thing with Rush Rush Rush Rush was a dare Wait wait time out Was Rush Rush Rush the last song Done for Spellbound? No

No it was the first song You did the same formula Exactly right No no No it wasn't No You want here to rush rush story

I said you can't You can't play, you can't write a song with just two chords. No, no. No, no, that wasn't it. That was, what I was, that was, that was pretty part. You know, man. The other part was, no, at the time, what happened, what happened was. Usually what happens is, you know, at the time, Babyface was writing a lot of songs.

We would go back and during that. And Babyface is a great songwriter, of course. I love him. But I would say to her, I can write those songs in my sleep. Come out. So did you purposely use the DX7? That's just as a point of sarcasm? No, it wasn't it, but the sarcasm was, I literally said,

because I knew what his thing was. The thing was, there was the way he hit the beat. So I was like, I jokingly went to the piano and I said, You're the whisper of a summer breeze. You're a kiss that puts my soul at ease. And I was like, oh, that sounds good. And that's the first two things I said. But there was a way he used, he would write songs.

They're kind of going, I want to run, I want to try. I'm going to take to you. On my heart, on myself. It's a pocket to a song. And every song when it has their pocket, so once you figure out what the mofo's pocket is, you'd be like, oh, you want that type of song? You want that type of song?

That's the pocket of that thing. So it's all of, S. Take that. Wow. So that's it, my brother. brother. Yo.

Who you texted me? I gotta do this. Who you calling? Baby face, yo, this two sit here. I got to do this. Wait, I got to do this. Wait, I got to do this.

Hang on. Please pick up. What time is it on the? Oh, it's, okay. Just pick up, please. I meant to tell him that when I met him, too, but he wasn't. He was paying him. It's not a butt down.

Okay. It's an odd time. It's six o'clock. Damn it. Damn it. Damn it. I'm officially calling Joe. Jimmy Jam to let him know that he's officially my second favorite

question of a message. He should have left of a message. He said a left of a message. No, he's going to call back. I think he thinks that I'm butt-dolling, but... Oh, I got Jimmy Jam. Just bring him. Bring him.

No, I know, because it really was for Jimmy Jam, because the first song that I did that we kind of did it together, but I did this track with this song for this girl named Janice Christie. Okay. Heat stroke. It's one of the worst songs I ever wrote, but it came a little bit of a hit. It was a hit though. It was a hit.

What year was this? This is 1986 or 87, something like that. Yeah. So the Janet Jackson's record had come out, so everybody was trying to do that, what have you done for me lately? And what was that, what was that song by that group? On that album? No, but it was another group. There's another song that came out, Alice Be My Girl.

Full Force? Full Force. Full Force had a record, right? That was really dope. I want you just for me. Yeah, so the baseline for heat stroke was a kind of a combination of rubble for Jimmy. And they was like, so it was like, do, do, do, do, do.

That sounds kind of funky. That's kind of funny. Yeah, I know that. But do, do, do, do, but do. You know, so, so it was that. And the song was horrible, too. He d'ed a stroke up. I thought it was funky, man.

I'm burning up. For the moment, it was kind of flawed. It was fly for the time. But usually in my joke songs end up being hits, but I'm trying to be all deep. That's what happens. All the jokes songs are the hits.

I swear to God. Ghetto Heaven, rush, rush. So he is? Like, promise of a good day. Even he is? Oh, no, no, no. I was serious about that. No, I was serious.

But notice, he put that one out under another name. No, it's like you noticed. You did it, Alan Smithy? Yeah, that was really dumb too. Why? Because at the time. Because I never knew till now. Because in 2000, around 2004, I'm like,

They're not checking for us anymore. I'm going to take my name to Joshua Nile. You sure did. So they think I'm a new young hip hop cat. Which was the dumbest shit I ever did in my fucking, oh, sorry. No, you don't know about that. Stop. Stop editing yourself.

Oh, yeah. You don't know about Josh. Joshua Nile? Yeah, so I wrote he. We did our research. He is. But the thing is what inspired that was, again, going back to hip hop. What was, there was this record that I love?

Broken language or broken? Broken language by smooth the last one. Yeah, yeah, that track. It was like, so, so, so. So he was like, the mind. The world. Yes. So I'm like, he is the dope-electa, the tuba-de-de-tector.

That's what's going on. So when you combine. Motherfucker. Yo, when I hear her that song? You're right. The heaven sinner. The cocaine cooker. The hookup on your hookah hooker.

The 35 cents short so my two-for-fives overlooking. The rap burner. The Ike, the Tina Turner. Asked whiff and learner. The hit man, the money earner. Oh, God. So that's, so that's the connection between, you know, the soul and the hip-by.

That was your R&B, broken language by Smooth the Hustler? Yeah, basically. Call it, Jimmy Jam back. Call it back. It's your number two now. You know what? The interesting thing about that project that I remember, too, is that I remember them taking a long time to get back to us about doing the song,

And we almost thought that they didn't want to do the song. And we almost thought that maybe they were trying to get somebody else to produce the song. And it was like, it was just kind of a weird thing. And I think we almost gave the song away. Yeah, what the problem was they didn't, they didn't intend for the first single to come from us. Exactly, exactly. They didn't intend for the first single to come from us. And so.

But they made the right choice. They made the right choice. But finally. But about that album, though. And go back to Jimmy and Terry, because we love, love, love, love than the one of our famous. But their second single was, I wish I don't.

The singer, yeah, I think it was called I Wish or something. But there's a song we had on there called Four Words from a Heartbrain. There was a really dope song that actually... Should have been the next single. Should have been the next single. But it was a tie, so it was good. But, you know, there's a lot of times with music industry, is politics and, you know,

most of the time. Yeah, and we get it, though, and we, the name, and we actually had offered that, so I think we had tried to get it to Whitney Houston, and then I think Satan, I'm sorry, Chris, Clive Davis. Clive Davis. Yeah, I'm sorry. Oh, my girl. Shack Myers. You got to let that shit

that shit. That shit was great. The way you dropped it, it was just the way, can I say something? I didn't know that MySpace is still a thing. It is? Well, I mean, maybe in the archive world, wherever that thing is. Unfortunately, my, whatever, the bio and my space thing is like, Clive Davis is the devil.

And someone from Arisden called me out on that shit. They did? Yeah. Clyde don't know. Fuck him. But now I just said it. Anyway. Getting them invites to them dinners, though.

I wasn't invited in the first place. That's all right. That's why I created the Grammy gym session. It's on the same night. I'm sorry. That's right. I love everybody. 2%. That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available.

I'm Michael Easter, and on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts, and more, to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry. We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong. Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are the result of stress. Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person.

Listen to 2%. That's T-W-O-Persent on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,

or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. top. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of

how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 was big to me not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Oh, wait.

Oh, yo, my mind is about to explode right now because we're all over the place. All right, so since we're, no, no, we're just being sporadic. Yeah. This is why I want to know. Because when I got word that you guys were producing Spell Bell Bell. Paul Abdul's second album.

Yes, her second album. Her follow-up to her, I mean, her, it was a massive record for you. Yeah, I mean, for every year. girl was more like an industry that built virgin and opportunities like that don't come

they don't that story doesn't happen when I heard you guys were producing it and the line share of the record I was like yo like how yeah that's from him playing in our house playing a piano and how did that happen

because I would have thought okay Well, okay, knocked out. That was upstart, L.A. Mabay-Mabe-B-Face. But now that they're the shit, like she's in industry now. Y'all were doing Aftershock first, right? She wanted to do something different.

She was, this is where I- She wanted to make an artistic statement? Yeah, she did. She didn't want to feed the machine. No, she didn't want to do, she felt like she was, she wanted to do something different. To move past that. Yeah, yeah.

That's why I give her a lot of credit. She was big enough to make her own. And she's really underestimated in terms of, of her artistic intellect and discipline. So she heard Rush Rush, so she flipped over that. And we were working with a group called Aftershock that we did an album for Visions. So that's how she kind of heard about us. And after she heard Rush, Rush, she loved that.

And then what else did we write? Then I think Blown Kisses in the Wind. Promise of a New Day. Yeah, Promise of a New Day. And then we marry me. So did I hear that? No, the problem of the new day was so dark the way those dissonant strings came in. But the juxtaposition of this video being so sunny and everything and everything, I was like, yo.

But listen, the coolest song on there, I'm sorry, it was viabology. Oh, I remember Viagology. What pissed me off? What happened? I think the MTV Award performance did a disservice. That did it in. Because literally the next day, freaking, we were watching it. We're watching. Well, all shit.

So the next day, the managers told us, yo, ready is literally. saying you're not sending us the fat song, are you? Ain't that a bitch? Yo, man. She wasn't even fat. Can I put in context? I gotta go look at the video. I'm Googling the video.

So she, no, it's not even the video. She performed at the MTV Awards. And because, you know, I mean, pre-social media, I don't even know how people managed to, like, I knew the collective thought was that, oh my God, what happened to Paula? Exactly. And they blamed the song. Right, they blamed the.

And I like the song. That was the next single. What did they? And they like, they just sort of, she gave way. No. It was literally her a costume. You know when you have like the,

she had a weird costume on with some headlights on that. But it was a wireless microphone, I think, something on the back of something that kind of made it jet out funny. So the angles quarter said it made it look, she's two pounds if that and it made it look like she was like three pounds. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So literally the radio was like,

because they were sending the single the next day, they were like, you're not sending us the fat song. And it just. It just killed the momentum of that song. And honestly, I mean, if I'm going to tell you, that, that performed, the backgrounds on that song for me is the most proud I am of any background I've done recorded in my career because of the fact that I got to use my classical training. Vibology. All of that. I did all of those.

I did all of those. Can we kind of ask you about that? Because Bill sent a video, audio of when she was in high school. And I was like, this can't really be Sondra. It was like, it was like the opera. We're nerds. I know how to find things. Uh-oh.

We're nerds. We're the government. Uh-oh. Be the government. Hope they don't find that Vanessa del Rio tape. Oh. That's play school now. That's another thing.

I know, right. But wait, Sandra, Stang's in. Range, ma'am. Well, no, I mean, I was trained. I mean, you know, I went to like music and art, where Erica went, where Roy Hart, Grove went Nora Jones. All that shit went out the window when she made us.

They told me to stop being so perfect. Then I was, you know, it's like, oh, really? Okay. Yeah. Rock and roll. I might get it in the race. Can you still hit the, you still got? Of course.

Yeah. I mean, yeah, that's in you, you know. So the classical training never leaves you. But the, that's what I got. The best training I got isn't being in the studio, Pete and Jeff telling me the Feel is the most important thing. The feel. Don't lose the feel.

I'm like, can I do that again? They're like, no, I felt good. You're not doing it again. I'm like, please, got to do it again? Like, nope. So, yeah. Yeah, they didn't let me, you know, perfect it. They don't let me perfect it.

So, you know, they're like that. So after two takes, then it's like, that's a rat. Whatever to take is right. Whenever to take is right. And I wanted to be like something else. But if it feels right, and they both end up, you know, They're like that and Mark Batson is like that. Those producers don't care if the note is right, if the, if the, if the, if the, the, the, the, the, they want the take to feel right.

That's the, the prime objective. So, you know, that's important because, you know, I listened, I was actually the day listened to a bunch of, like, you know, 70s and 80s stuff like Jean Carn and, you know, infinize. And I'm like, she ain't singing it. It ain't like perfect. It's about the feel. It's about, you know, it's about where she's coming from with the note. It's not about where the note lands, where she comes from. But it's funny because she still has a similar background as you were.

She knows how to do it classically. Oh, yeah. She's classically trying to. Yeah. Jeff, you're not getting away with this. I'm sorry. Come on, man. Come on, man.

I have to at least back up the tree in at least 15 years just to start with, for For starters, you were taught by Yusuf Latif? No, I studied with him for a second in college. For a second in, I wasn't taught by him. I went to Borough of Manhattan Community College for about a year. That was just my extent of college. Because once I made it out of high school, I don't know how. I said, let me get a college to try.

So I got in there and I studied with him for a little while. And he was, you know, he was showing me something. In fact, I didn't even know he played flute. I didn't know the flute was his thing. And, you know, I just once a week, I go and, you know, we just do some private lesson things. And, you know, that's about my extent, the extent of me studying with him.

What is your preferred weapon of choice as far as your arsenal? Is a soprano, alto tenor? I've been playing a lot of soprano lately. I don't want to. I mean, gun, do you? your head, what's your axe? Because you have so many... Tenor. Don't say gun to...

Tenor. With this guy. Right. No right. Good one. You're on that one. Put my shit out. Tenor, but I've been playing a lot of soprano probably the last

maybe four or five years. I've been playing a lot of soprano, a lot of soprano. I love you on Barry. though. I love you on Barry, too, but that doesn't make me enough. I'm going to ask you, okay, so here's the question I have.

So our particular sax player, Ian, what's Ian's last name? Hendrickson Smith. Ian Hendrickson Smith. Formerly of the Dap Kings. And so the thing is that Ian hates when I make him break out the soprano. Now, for us, it's hilarious. but he hates the sheen associated with the soprano. Well, I mean, that, and, you know, it's almost like,

I guess the unwritten rule is like after Coltrane, you know, is done with it. Who else wants to? And more power Wayne shorter, more power to, you know, I know there are other greats that I've touched. I didn't like Coltrane's sound on soprano. You serious? I didn't like a sound on soprano.

You're the, you are one of a kind of. I didn't like his sound on surprise. He said it loud. Tanner, he's my favorite all time, but soprano I didn't like his tone on soprano. Who did you like on soprano? I like Wayne Shorter. Oh, yeah, okay.

So you feel the definitive sound of the soprano sax is Wayne Shorter? No, not the definitive sound. His sound just connects with me more on soprano. Coltrane, because I think he got, if I remember correctly, that was something that was a gift from Miles, right? Yes. Yeah, so, you know, he, picked it up. I guess he was trying to do something, but I wasn't crazy about his sound, sonically

his sound. I wasn't crazy about his sound. So what were you looking for as far as engineering or? I wasn't looking for anything. It just wasn't connecting me. It just sounded kind of. Contrived. No, not even contrived. I think he was sincere about what he was doing, but it just didn't sound. It wasn't for me. That's the best way I could describe it. So what's your favorite period of Coltrayman? Giant steps. All right. It's a minute period. Or even. free spiritual or no the stuff when he started going out

you don't like the primitive and the stuff when he started I mean I like the I mean the stuff where he started going out it just got a little bit too out for me okay but uh the era of giant steps before that you know stuff he was doing in the 60s with Miles was I loved all of that stuff

I mean he had like a sound to me he just had his sound just connected I remember. So who's your sax god then? Because I just naturally assume that everyone worships the Coltrane no matter what. Yeah, Coltrane no matter what. I mean, I like Michael Brecker.

He was like that cat to me. Unksum Hero, okay. You know, I mean, those two guys. I mean, there's just so many guys. I mean, I could go back to Dexter Gordon. and Prez had his own sound, you know, the smooth thing. Bird was just, bird was fast. I mean, man, bird was just, I don't know, man.

So explain to me, because the thing is that you managed to capture, the one thing I always hear about when an iconic solo is captured in a song, it's always the same story and the story is okay guys I'm ready to cut it nope we got it already thank you very much I know that's your story

but are you once did you know that you captured lightning in a bottle with your saxophone solo and Caribbean no no that that I have to give credit to the producer

Keith Diamond at the time because he was the one that he knew pretty much what he wanted in terms of the song. So we would just take sections because, I mean, I went into the studio, and I was just kind of trying to get a feel of what the song was, and they had the tape rolling. He told Bob Rosa to roll the tape while I was playing, and I was in front of the mic.

They were trying to get a sound. So I said, okay, I think I got something. And then he said, no, come on in. So you were just warming up. Huh? I was just warming up. You didn't beg them to let me just do a take of it. No, no, that song was pieces, because he had the whole tape rolling, and he took pieces

of what I played throughout the, from the beginning of the song to the end. I want you to play this part here, and we just kind of constructed the solo. And the interesting thing about it is like, after that song blew up, man, I was getting calls. Like, everybody in their mother was calling me, and my friend Van, he said, yo, Jeff, You need to start charging people because I was undercharging people. He said, you know, your shit is hot. You need to get paid for it. So I just started charging people.

Going up a little more? Yeah. I went up a lot more. I will say, Steve couldn't attest to this. So when Billy Ocean finally agreed to come on a show, and this is after six long years of begging him, please come on the Tonight Show. Please, please, please.

Tonight show. And he finally agrees to come to the show and we're losing our shit. And then I'm looking at Ian, our sax player. And we were like, dude, you have to do it note for fucking note. And do we spend two hours just singing that shit to him? But you don't know that. Like everybody knows that solo. Like between that solo and Carolyn's whisper.

Those are the solos of the ages. But here's the thing, though. It's like I know a lot of Tariq's lyrics. Tariq, you know, I mean, Tariq, well, let me, let me not misrepresent him. I think the average person knows, like, can retain like maybe 75 songs or 75, those things. But it's just like, I mean, I know that song because I DJed so much. you know, watch TV all the time. You're an American.

Americans who were born before 80 have to know that, note for note, that solo. Like, Chief is like deep, like, he's like Doug Carn. He's frie jazz. Okay. Boozy jazz. Boosy jazz. It's not boozy.

Like, he's more avant-garde. That's where his heart is. I mean, he made his meat and potatoes as the Dap King. So all that, like. You don't think it's boozy when you don't know the solo to Caribbean. Come on, man. No, no, no. You know it.

But I don't think, like, Anybody that's on the Tonight Show now, like again, my story is that I didn't grow up saying, hey, one day I'm going to be the new Doc Severnson of the Tonight Show. It just happened. And I'm prepared for it. But part of the job of being on the Tonight Show is that you, all the pop culture sponging that you've done your life, everything you've learned, now gets utilized on the show. So, you know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you know that solo, but it's like now you've got to execute it perfectly. Executed. That's different. Well, yeah, that's, no, that's, that's, that's, that's, Carol's Whisper. I'm sorry, wait up. I love that solo, man. Right way.

Do, da-da-da-da-na. Right. All right, now you're singing in Sanford or something. No. Did you still, When's the last time you had to play that solo verbatim? Or don't tell me 35 years ago after I did it, that was it. When I had to play it?

Yes. I can't remember. You didn't tour with him at all? Oh, no, no, no, no. The only two times I really played with him was one night. The week, the night, he was on Saturday Night Live. He did two nights at Radio City. Those were the only times that I ever played with, with Big.

really. And ironically, the last night that I played with him was when I lost the horn that I had. Because we went out. You literally lost that horn? No, let me tell you what happened. After the show, you know, because he sold out Radio City two nights, I sat him with him two nights. The second night we went and we, after the show, we went to kind to celebrate, you know, went up, got a couple of drinks. I went down into the, after we were done, I went down into the garage to get my car. The guy brought my car. My horn was in the back of the car.

I didn't put it in the car yet. I went and paid for the car and drove off and left my horn. When I got home, I looked in the trunk. I was like, oh shit. So I went back to the garage. Of course, they didn't see nothing. They didn't see nobody. saw anything. So the only time

I ever see that horn for reruns of Saturday Night Live. Ironically, but... Somewhere in life, there's like some grandkid that got a saxophone for church. Yeah, yeah. Not knowing what they just got. Yeah, well, somebody yeah, some... Jesus Christ.

That thing should be in the Blacksonian. Come on. Blacksonian, yeah. So, Sandra. Yeah, Sanja. Okay. So your journey is just as rich as well. I tell you, we're not even going to get, properly get to the family family stand.

This is almost like a nine-part episode. Prequel. I know. Open doors. How much, how much pounding of the payment did you do in New York? Oh, wait. Can you wait one second, please? We're getting a phone call.

Oh, really? We're getting a phone call right now. Oh, are we? James Harris, the third? Yes, sir. What's up, man? How you doing? I'm currently right now.

taping an episode of Quest Love Supreme. Okay. I regret to form you of this, and I've made it public. I've declared my loyalty, my allegiance to you, since the history of my show. But you are now officially in second place as... You hang up? You're...

You've been... You've been demoted. You've been demoted. You've been demoted to second place. because the Family Stand episode is the craziest thing I've ever heard in my life. Is that right?

Yes, I'm currently right now with V. Jeffrey, Sondra, St. Victor, and Peter. And, yeah, I had to tell you that live on the air that... We love you, bro, by the way. We love you, sweetie. You know that.

Thank you for giving me the heads up on Prince. But I don't need sympathy, love, I'm not. They got to hit you on serious radio, by the way. Now they're like, they're going to do your show. Yes, I don't. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We want to come on your show too.

We'll be there. We'll be there. Let's call us. More sympathy love. I'm sorry. This is the craziest, the stories I've heard. You know, like we're very organized. We're going to chronological order.

No, it's just going all over the places. I can't wait to hear it, man. Yes, man. Anyway, I just want to let you know. You're number two, but you're still number one, but you're number two now. This ain't going to be six hours. What did you say? I'm still number one as a solo act, though.

Yes. You're the number one solo. Thank you. I'm just going to go get my category together. All right. You're still the number one solo act on Quest Love Supreme. Thank you. Okay, perfect.

Okay, thank you. All right, bro. All right, bro. All right, bro. That's all right. Oh, God. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold up. Wait a minute.

All right. You know when you hear my voice, sorry, you're disappointed, but you're going to have to wait seven more days to get. This is beyond. auntie. This is, wow, I can't even describe what you're experiencing right now. I think this is probably shaping up to be one of my favorite episodes. And I know I went on record to say that Jimmy Jam had the absolute best episode of Quest Love Supreme. But this might be neck and neck.

I don't know. I'm going to have to ask the rest of the team Supreme. So please join us next week for part two of this already legendary classic, instant classic episode of the family stand. on Questlove Supreme. Quest Love Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. For more podcasts from IHart Radio, visit the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 2%.

That's the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. I'm on my podcast, 2%. I break down the signs of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. Put yourself through some hardships,

and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2% that's TWA% on the I-HeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying.

Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast. the Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it.

Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. On the Look Back at a podcast. For 1979, that was a big moment for me. Eighty-four's big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick you here, unpack what went down and tried to make sense of how we survived it with our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s.

It was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.