Questlove Supreme: The Family Stand (Part 1)
00:00This is an I-heart podcast.Guaranteed Human.2%.That's the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available.I'm Michael Easter.And on my podcast, 2%.I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange, modern world.Put yourself through some hardships and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person.
00:28Listen to 2%.That's TWO percent on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.A win is a win.A win is a win.I don't care what I'm saying.Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th.You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media.Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show.
00:55This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard,but celebrated.So let's get to it.Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app,Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.And for more behind the scenes,follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.On the Look Back at it podcast.
01:15From 1979, that was a big moment for me.84's big to me.I'm Sam J.And I'm Alex English.Each episode, we pick a year,unpack what went down,and try to make sense of how we survived it.With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors.
01:29Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s.It was a wild year.It was a wild year.I don't think there's a more important year for black people.Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.Of course, Love Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio.Check.One, two, three.
01:49Check, check.Check, check.So.Check, check.One, two.Ladies and gentlemen, sometimes you just have to go with the flow.Steve's looking mad nervous right now because we're not following the rules of the show.from an engineer standpoint.
02:04But I don't know.I just felt the need.We don't have to do roll call every time.Right?We don't know how we're going to clear this shit, but it don't matter.I will say, yes, first story is if you're tuning in late,this is Quest Love Supreme on IHeart Radio.And we're still here with three supremas
02:23because I have them locked in chains.See what I did there, guys, locked in chains.Yes, yes, yes.Boss Bill, Lyin, Sugar, Steva, with us.Apparently, unpaid bill met a woman named Lady Sunshine.And he left us a dear John note that said he ain't never coming back.Fonciclo apparently is still smoking very strong cigarettes,and he said he'd be back for visitation Sundays in a month.
02:46Indica.So what I will say is that when time has passed and the smoke is cleared,I really hope that the storytellers and the history must be.and the history tellers will be kind to our next guest.Whether as a collective or as individuals, as an artist,producers, songwriters, or just plain old session musicians,or just three really talented musicians,our guest today have made impact in history,
03:24and they march to the beat of their own drum, their own weird drum,whether we know it or not.Sing is Steve.And I'll be honest, I think Bill can agree with me, Boss Bill.can agree that the gems of the discoveryfor this episode alonerates 10 on the Oship meter.Yes, yes.
03:42And we graciously thank themfor doing us the honorof celebrating with them 30 years oftruth, weirdness,cleverly hidden snark.Hello, Van der Waite, how you doing?Zero compromises,as far as I know.
03:58Ladies and gentlemen, please welcomethe one and only.Peter Lordthe Jeffrey Smithand Sandra St. Victora special treat for all you music expertsand nerds and connoisseurs out thereprofessionally known as the family stand.
04:15Yeah. Wow.Now, every intro has to be like that.I know, right? Right?I think a new standard has been said.And I really had a good roll call, but, you know.I had two of them.I knew one of you all was going to steal one on them.No, see, I wasn't even going to do the obvious one.
04:32I have to say that this is one that I didn't see coming.Really? Why?I didn't see it coming.I just, now I see you coming.I appreciate it.You know, just when your name appeared on the wish list of,oh, family stand, when I do Questlove Supreme, we're like,Roo.
04:50Thank you.What are you talking about?I'm happy.Boss Bill's happy.Everyone's happy.I'm not worried about a thing.You're not worried about a thing.That's what's that.
05:01So, has this always been this way with you guys?Like you justpretty much, yeah, no doubt.Break out.Is that the bond that kept you togetherthe music?The music has always been the thing.I mean, we can hang out and have good fun.
05:16And, you know, we are compatibleoutside of music.But the thing that always brings us backis that music.Because we are like, I call them my musical soulmatesand I mean that sincerely, they literally are,I mean, I've never been connected or bondedwith anyone the way I am with Peter and Jeff.
05:34And I call them my people.powerstowers of powerspowers that bethe towerswhen I'm between themI'm the safestthat I am in the world
05:42okaywell herethis is a traditionon Questlove Supremebecauseany guest that comeson the showI always want to find out
05:53what brought themto where they are nowand you knowthe first questionI always havewell there's three of you nowso this is going to bean extra long episode
06:01this might bethis might tie Jimmy JamsrecordCan I take my shoes off?For six hours.Yes.That's why we brought you to a reservoir.This is home.
06:09Okay.I'm like, wait a minute.You got feed made for radio, so sorry.I got radio feed.I'm good.Thank you, sweetheart.Brothers.So, thank you.
06:16Thank you. They know.What I'll do is I'll go from my right to left.My first question for you, Pete.Yes.Is, sir.First of them, where were you born?I was born in Brooklyn, New York.Really?
06:32I'm from Brooklyn.Okay.Same hospital as Michael Jordan.Nice.Off Atlantic Avenue.Okay.Wait, what hospital is that?What did you say?
06:42What hospital is that?I think it was St. Joseph's or something like that.Off Atlantic.Yeah.Okay.And Sandra, where were you?Dallas, Texas.Yes, I know you were.
06:51Big D.Yeah.All right, so you're the Big D and then Detroit's the D.Okay, the D.That's another thing.Okay.So the big D.All sounds good.
07:00Ride that D.You know what I'm saying, Jeff.Oh.HR.Never saw.This is XM radio or triple XNM.And V. Jeffrey.I was born in Harlem, Harlem Hospital.
07:15Really?Yeah, the old one.Oh, okay.I'm a man of a certain age, so.The old one as opposed to?Yeah, the one that's here.It was one on 305th and Lenox.No, it's not Lennox.
07:29I think it's a little further over.Really?Okay.Yeah.It's the old one.I said I'm a man of a certain age, so I don't think people even know about that one.An older, okay.An older Harlem Hospital.
07:41Like Frederick Douglass was born there, right?Same time.Oh, yeah.We start early.Here we go.Here we go.Y'all in the right place.That's all right.
07:54So then I'll ask what year.All the way for that.Sandra, what year did you come to New York City?182okayyeahvisiting a few timesor you
08:07you've officially justI just rolled upand it was a crazy roll upbut yeahI rolled up in 1982reallyit was crazykind of the opening
08:16to a song that wasn't writtenyetwelcome to the junglelike you got off the busit was freaking nutsyou know it was a Royer's roll upsookay
08:23he's had a set upand it wasthere's a whole thing therebut yesI got itokaywe got timenow
08:29no no no I'mI'm gonna get to that.Okay.So I'm just, my first four questions are always just the basic foundations of who you are as individuals before we get in the collective.All right.So what is, Peter, what is your first musical memory?Very first musical memory.This is going to give away age.
08:49But this is right.We're all mature here.We're all mature.That's right.The first song I remember hearing was hit the road jack.Okay.That's my first musical memory, hit the road jack.And then I remember being, my sister having a party at around, I think it was 1968 or nine,
09:19and she played that Sly album, and my life was never the same after that, though I didn't realize it yet.But the really reason I got into music industry was, was,because of Satan.And that was because...And he falls in you till this day.And I tell you why, I know a lot of us, you know,people of a certain, he would like to say that Jesus got into music,but Satan got me in the music because of the movie The Exorcist.
09:47And I'll tell you why.Because the movie came out and I was so afraid to go to sleep.I started playing the radio every night.And that's...Ah, I went tangential.Oh, tangential.Yo, we were tangential.All right.
10:03So I was, so that's, every shadow was like, you know,Linda Blair, I turned their head around.So I started playing the radio every night.So I waited in the morning.I got this new song.I'm so tired of being alone.I thought about that all myself.Really?
10:17Oh, that was Al Green?Oh, but then I kept hearing Stevie and those peoplewere doing the radio during that.I'm like, oh, I think I like musicbecause I'm hearing songs in my head.Wait, I got to say something.I don't think I've ever shared the story before,but now that makes sense
10:31because when you think of the boogeyman or whatever,the first thing you want to do is distract yourselffrom whatever you think is under the bed or in the closet.So you put music on to be an invisible roommate.Frank Zappa had, did a film, a short film with Bill Plympton,uh, yeah, 1973, whatever.And it came on Midnight Special, but this thing, like, he turned into a demon.I mean, if you know Frank Zappa's music, it's like,
10:57Yeah, yeah, yeah.Like four fingers turned into 75 billion fingers.And I had nightmares of Frank Zappa forever.And so, thus, my mom, I totally forgot.That's how music really, I had her on 24-7 because I was scared of Frank Zappa getting me.Yeah.That was it.See, we connected, bro.
11:21So, Sondra, what was your first musical memory?In addition to the first music that you purchased?or owned and the moment that changed your life and brought you to music.Okay, well, so the first and the last question, I'm probably about the same.And that's the first musical memory.My parents and my aunts tell me about stuff that I did when I was two, like playingthe piano, and they said I was fiddling around playing, and I figured out that thescale was joy to the world.
11:51So they said, but they said I was two.I don't remember this, but they tell me, said, you were two, and you said,and I said, George to the world, the Lord, that's come.So, but it was George to the world.I don't recall that.But my first musical memory is I had chores and I had to clean, dust these coffin-looking, bedazzled lamps in the living room.And as I was consoling myself while I was cleaning, I started singing.And as I was singing, I said, I'm a singer.
12:30I was like eight.I said, I am.I didn't say I want to sing.I said, I am a singer.And it's new.And it's never changed from that moment, never, anything else.And so, yeah, that was the first, that's like the first real solid memory.And that also is the last question.
12:48That's the thing that changed my life as far as, it was no question at that point,who I was in my own, you know, in my own, you know, skin.I knew from that point.I forgot your second question, though.The first record you purchased.Ah, okay, so, yeah, the first thing I probably purchased wasSongs in the Key of Life or Larry Graham's Mirror.That's the first thing I probably purchased.
13:14Nice.Yeah.Yeah, because I was young, but I had a little allowance,and that was about that time, and those were the first albums I had.Songs in Keel Life and Mirror.Yeah, I love that.Jeff, what was your first musical memory?Around my house there was a lot of music
13:35because my mother, she sang,and she used to have like these parties.Well, I don't know exactly what to call them now.Uh-oh.Was there a car game?Was there a knife?There was a lot of stuff going on.And Jen?
13:49There was a lot of stuff going on.A blue light or red light.Me and my sister was under a chairand watching them play music all night.But at the same time, the music that we would listen to was things like Brooke Bentonand the first thing that, the song that I remember is Booker T and the MGs.What's the song that, but, uh, green onions, right?Right.
14:10Until this day, I say Stevie probably caught that with, um.Oh, for higher ground?Higher ground.Because when I first heard higher ground, I said, Stevie Jacked that song.You know, I mean, he added his little twist, but that's probably,Probably the first memories of and also I was made to love her.Okay.That was, but the music that really changed my life was music of my mind.
14:42Really?There's another observation I'm making right now that's rare for our guests.It sounds like that at a very early agemusic isn't an obstacle in your householdsUsually with our guest on the showThere's like Charlie WilsonLike people have to sneakTo listen to the records
15:08Like the only secular record they're allowed to listen toIs what's going on or that sort of thingSo you're saying even at an early ageIn discovering music your parents wereNo doubtWhat type of parents did you guys have that were so open toOhWell I had a parent
15:23That's a can of worms.Well, can you hear me?You can hear you.You're not a parent.Well, my mother was a nurse and my father was a communist, so that creates an artist.So he was open, he was open-minded to begin with, a little bit too open-minded.But so, and my oldest sister was into music and my father sang.So we weren't, we weren't, and I was baptized Catholic, so we weren't like a religious, Baptist,
15:53Baptist, you know, music is evil type of pha, you know.So, yeah, the alternative.Semi-auternative.Yeah, different from what most black people at the time.Yeah, absolutely.Because my father was, actually, he went to, he graduated from Harvard.He was a lawyer.He was a columnist of major paper and a professor.
16:17But he was seriously a communist and got caught up in the 1950s scandal.So his whole career ended up being a teacher in Jersey.city. So my parentsgot divorced around 1963.Is this when the violins come in?Well, explain to methe repercussions of that. If you,if the government was trying to vent out,
16:35who was a communist based on?So even though he had, you know, he wasa Harvard law degree and was a doctor philosophyand wrote books about history, the factthat he was a communist, he got outed and washe was taught at his school in Albanyand was forced to leave there.Is your dad, Paul Robinson?
16:51No. He hung up.Paul Robeson, there's a picture of him,there's a picture of him and Paul Robeson and Joe Lewisin this big, you know, party back in the, like, late 40s.He had me, like, late in his, later in his life.Yeah, I remember.I mean, what he just believes that he was just anti-capitalist?He was an atheist, in fact,
17:10but my mother wasn't, even though she wasn't necessarily religious,but she went just, and my grandmother,Jamaican and very religious, wanted to make sure I didn't.How did that work?It's a lot of conflicts.Most Jamaicans I know are like, yeah, yeah.That's why he's a geniusBut crazy
17:25CrazySo so myAre you Gemini?I was just about to ask himI'm a LeoLeoYeah he's a GeminiYou better be a Gemini
17:32Because that's in your albumYeahYeah soSo they were open-mindedIn terms of thatIn terms of musicSo they you knowThey love music
17:41And she actually wanted me toI think she wanted meTo get musicBut my sisterwas actuallyWent to music and artAnd I didn't goI went to Erasmus high school
17:48In BrooklynOh actually no I didn'tI waswent to War Women Junior High School in Brooklyn,and to make sure I'd have to fight the same people I did.And Warwick, when I went to Erasmus,I made sure I passed that test to go to Stuyveson High School.So that's what I ended up there.
18:01Isn't that tip story as well?That sounds familiar.That's crazy.Yeah, so I ended up going, but I wasn't,music wasn't such a, there wasn't a block to music in my house and that,so that was fortunate.So was there a,most, the sort of hip-hop narrative is basically
18:20with gang activity in New Yorkin the 70s andsort of waning out in the 80sbut was that an everyday thing in youryour teenhood? I hear it a lot in the West Coastbut you rarely hear it for. What the thing islet's say I was a different type of kid.Yes, you were. Yes, you were.
18:43Yeah, we know how you survived and navigated this.Actually, I kind of ignored a lot of stuff.And not a conscious thing.I mean, I just wasn't into it, you know what I mean?So I was, I just wasn't, I was definitely into gangs of fighting and all that stuff.But how do you avoid it?Because normally they choose you.I guess they thought I was so weird.
19:03They didn't know what to do with me and I just didn't, you know.You know.The mirror route.Yeah, I mean, I was just, yeah, I was just so kind of out, you know, and that I had like a weird kind of childhood like in Brooklyn.And so there was a lot of fights and stuff.And, but I was, as opposed to.get into the fights, I was kind of stupid kid in a way because I was scared of people I shouldhave been scared of because they had a bunch of brothers and I had no brothers. But one day, one day,
19:30I found out later was the biggest bully in the neighborhood, took my, we used to play thisgame, people don't play anymore called punch ball. It's kind of like baseball. You thoughtabout punch ball. So this guy took my ball and I said, give me my boy, he said, no. And Ipunched him in the face. And then everybody said, do you know you just punched him in the face?You hit the biggest prisoner. Nice!I punched him in the face, but then it was like,do you know he just hit him?And then after I realized that who I hit,
19:58then I was scared.But then the guy became friends with me and looked out for me.He didn't mess with you no more, right?But he looked out for a bunch of the other kidswho were really tougher than even worse he was.Well, I'm glad you had that,because I can't imagine a childhood growing upwhere you don't have that one person that's like,
20:19I'm gonna get boomthe fuck you upOh noI didn'tYeahI never had thatSo I just ran homeYeah
20:25With the quicknessSo SandraIn DallasYeahOkayIsWhat was DallasAt the time
20:36In your childhoodBecauseYeahI think ofAustinAsA blue cityIn a red state
20:45Or at leastThey wouldLike to paint thatOr now it isYeah, for sure.We don't even know now.Texas is trying to go blue, right?But I'll say that the times that I went there, at least with my gracious host, El Head Rappo.
21:04Is that me?Yeah, you.Oh, oh, Erica.Oh, my God.Head Rappo.El Head Rappo.She showed me size of Dallas that I didn't even know exist.And I've been there plenty of times.
21:17and I was like, oh, there are people like me down here.What was it like for you growing down there?Yeah, it was like the two sides of the tracks, you know.And my dad, who came from, like, him and his brothers, him and his brothers, I mean, the firstgun I saw was my dad's, okay?My dad was like a pimp back in the day, right?And, you know, I stumbled upon those pictures.But so Dallas, when I was going on, was very divided.
21:46So he haddecided at some point that he was going toleave the gang life behind a little bitAt least on the frontI wanted to use thisYou can you canYou can because trustLet me tell you my daddy didn't really lead that shit behind
22:06So what I'm telling you is what I'm telling youSo he kind of likeYou know so he we got a great jobHe moved up for a black supervisor at the phone companyAll kind of crapBut my mother's family lived on the other side of the tracks.So when we had to go visit them, we said, oh, snap, this is the real of real, right?So they lived in West Dallas and South Dallas and, you know, in little trailers and like 12 people in one house.
22:33And, you know, we went to visit our country cousins.They didn't have shoes.So, like, you know, we was like, oh, damn, we're middle class.I mean, I didn't know the term for it then.But I look back on it, you know, I grew up middle class.Well, you know, I would say lower to middle, middle class.Yeah, close.You know, upper middle, middle class life.
22:50You know, up up middle class life.Working class.Working class.But dad, dad's, dad's, dad's, like, you know, sort of gangster side never left.I mean, for example, when I remember I was with this duel.Oh, no.Uh-oh.Here we go.
23:13I know where this is going.The story begins.Let me just tell us cute.I mean, so, and, you know, he wasn't treating me right.And he actually slapped the shit out of me one day.And I, like, and I was so stunned.So I got on a flight, and I was in New York.So I got on a flight, and I just went back home.
23:33My dad always picked me for the airport.And he picked me at an airport, and I was just quiet.And he was like, what's wrong with you?I'm like, nothing.And he was quiet.It was a 40-minute ride.We almost home.He said, did he lay his hands on you?
23:46He just guessed it.And I was like, wah.Bada boom, but a boom.No.Son, so we got home.He was, I never saw him get that red.He was like, life's game job.He was like, he got home.
24:00He picked up the phone.Oh.He called, dude.He just said shit to me.He just picked up the phone.He brought my suitcase in, picked up the counter.He said, I'm on my way.He said, I'm on my way.
24:13He said, he said, he said, because they'll do his name, Clark, he said, Clark, this is Mr. Matthews.He said, if you ever lay your hands on my daughter again, New York won't be big enough.Oh.I was like, that's so romantic.I'm not trying to protect me.I just want to know we ever heard from Clark again.No, actually.I didn't think we did, yeah.
24:43We did not.Like, all right, that'll be enoughbut you sound like.No, I mean like, is he alive?I really could not answer that question.Honestly, I do not know.Okay.I just know I did not hear him work anymore.
24:56He shut him down.So, I mean, he's done that kind.That's kind of thing he does.I mean, you know, he got cute when he got older,when he would just meet ladies.All my girlfriends,who would I introduce, he would flirt with.And tell them, I'm not a dirty old man.
25:11I'm just a sexy senior citizen.Oh, even now.Embarrassed his shit out of me.You're going to use that line.Pull that one out.That was my dad and his brother.Did you learn how to handle the pistol?Oh, I did, actually.
25:26Well, she from Texas.Yeah, I mean, I assumed, but I was like, I don't want you to.Is that, okay, I don't want to make any assumptions about Texas whatsoever, butcan I assume that that's as simple as breathing air or water?At least we're taught to think.Shooting?Yeah.I would say.
25:43I would say 70%I'm not going to say everybodyyou know what I mean because everybodymost people don't know how to do thatbut I knew how to shootor the parents definitely had gunsso you come across ityou know what I mean so I came across
25:59the gun in my housemy dad used to keep it on top of the refrigeratorI'm like what is it on top of the refrigeratorthat's where the gun wasso when he saw me like find ithe was like okay well if you don't do the gunyou know let me show you how soWere you the only sibling?
26:15No, I had three.We're all adopted, by the way.Three siblings, yeah.You were chosen.Yeah.Nice.Three chosen kids.I almost shot my sister.
26:23Wait, what?No, no, no.Let me tell you what happened.We were kids, right?And me and my sister were in my, my stepdad.I mean, I wasn't, like, familiar with my biological.So my mother had to be married, right?Oh, yeah.
26:39And me and my sister was playing in her, in their room.Found a gun.And so we was reaching, you know, trying to look for things.And we see this gun and I'm thinking it's a toy gun.So I pointed at my sister and clicked.And then I pointed at the ceiling and it went off.They came in and they said, I didn't know what was happening.So they was wondering if something had happened upstairs.
27:04I was wondering why they were.They were tripping.They were tripping.So I didn't know it was a real gun.You know, I was like, that's one of my earliest memories because I don't remember much.before I was nine.Well, that's Questlo's Supreme, ladies and gentlemen.Good night.
27:20Good night.Steve is sober now.Yeah.Busco.Ain't nobody carrying, right?You know, the family's staying.You got an ass now.That's scary.
27:31Yeah, that's scary.I mean, I remember that.That's, like, kind of a weird kind of thing.It's a blessing.Like, you're blessed.No, seriously.Your life would have went differently.Well, I don't, you know, I don't believe.
27:43even luck or anything like that.But that was a...That's what's up.Yeah, I mean...Somebody's looking out.Somebody's looking out.2%.That is the number of people
28:00who take the stairswhen there is also an escalator available.I'm Michael Easter.And on my podcast, 2%.I break down the science of mental toughness,fitness, and building resiliencein our strange modern world.I'll be speaking with writers,
28:16researchers, and other health and fitness expertsand more.to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry.We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory.We got it wrong.Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are the result of stress.Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person.Listen to 2%. That's T-W-O-P-Cent on the I-Hart Radio App.
28:49Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.A win is a win.A win is a win.I don't care what you're saying.Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th.You might have seen the skits, the reactions,my journey from basketball to college football,or my career in sports media.
29:09Well, somewhere along the way,this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.And now I'm bringing all of that excitementto my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.This is a place for raw,unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,creators and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment,
29:30and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations,stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger.So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream,this is right where you need to be.Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast,or wherever you get your podcast.And for more behind the scenes,
29:54follow at Cliffordand at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.Do you remember when Diana Rossdouble-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs?Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people.I know what you're thinking.What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim?Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast.
30:12I'm Sam J.And I'm Alex English.Each episode, we pick it here,unpack what went down,and try to make sense of how we survived it.including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hillwaxing all about crack in the 80s.To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack.
30:29I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know.I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episodewhere we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line.We also have AIDS on the table right now, so...Thank you for finishing that sentence.Yes, I don't think there's a more important year for black people.Really?Yeah.
30:48For me, it's one of the most important years.from black people in American history.Listen to look back at it on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,or wherever you get your podcasts.Bring you guys to New York now.What year did you guys meet?Not even as a bit, but like...
31:0786.Okay, you're talking about all of us?Yes.Okay, let me take this one.Go ahead, break it down.Peter and I met through a mutual friend,Will Downing.Yes.
31:21Me and Will Downing,we used to do a lot of work together.We were writing, sessions, all that stuff.And, you know, Will used to come over my house, and, you know, we used to write.So one day he told me that he knew this guy needed a flute player on a song that he was writing, right?And I never forget the song was in the thick of it, right?That's the name of it?I never forgot the name of that song.
31:45So he let me hear the song.I said, man, I got to meet this guy.So he said, I'll bring him over.So Pete came over my house, you know, I said, that's Pete.He's weird.He looked like he had this like Larry Dany, six, five.I'm like, so we started working together.And at the time you were, you had a group, you were with Renee and Angela.
32:15And Angela, right?He was doing them at first.Oh, I can't wait for the stories.We're not even going to get to the family stand yet.Just your collective experience?Oh, she's shaking a head, no, already?Every Renee's story is terrible.I'm ready for this.
32:29I'm ready for the team.Zita was here.So it was Renee and Angela, right?They were producing the group.Yes, yes, yes.So somehow I convinced PSA, Pete, man, you know, we could do this ourselvesbecause I was always into, you know, being in control of our own music.So, you know, we started working together doing a lot of productions and stuff.
32:48and so we had a bunch of singers coming and doing demos for usbecause at the time we were doing stuff for Silver Your Own, Merlin Boband Mickey Howard.Mickey Howard, you know, we did Mickey Howard.So all the weird stuff?The MacBank.Yeah, yeah, MacBam.We did productions on them and we had different singers singing our demos.
33:12So Lisa Fisher was one of our singers.Now, I knew Lisa from,I met Lisa in 1983 on a session that I was doing for Billy Ocean, right?So she was in the studio, yeah, she was in the, uh,that's him.That's so casual.We'll go.We'll get to out.
33:32That's his sax.We'll get to that.We know this.So, you know, I met Lisa then.So we kind of established a relationship over the years.And then she started, she did some demos for us too.And so did we get an offer todeal or we just started.
33:50No, first we met beforeyou guys got the offer for the producersdeal. Because Lisa had togo do Luther. She had to go toLuther. Right. And so then shepulled me in because I met Lisa when she wasdoing the crystals and I still lived in Texasand I was doing laissez-faire. And so we hooked
34:06up before I moved to New York andthe crystals. The crystals?She was in the crystals.We do-up? Yeah, yeah.She was doing the crystals backin the day. Just traveling as not.Not as the original.No, no, I know this.
34:20Okay, it was only one.That's my era.Like, yeah.Oh, no doubt.So it was like one original crystal and the other two, and Lisa was one of the other two.Shit, I did shows with Lisa Fisher and I never knew it.Oh, you were a kid with your dad.Dude, we did mad shows with the Christmas.
34:35But that was like a du-op legend.Oh, that's crazy.Yeah, so.Yeah.So, anyway, we were using Lisa and a bunch of other singers, and we told Lisa thatwe needed a singerand she said oh my girlAs Sandra lives in Dallas
34:52and I could hook you up with them and at the timewe were producing this group called the Mac bandWho was out of Dallas, yeahwho I think Babyface they producedroses are red rightSo we were producing some songs on that recordSo we had to go to Dallas to produce themAnd that's where we hooked up with Sandra
35:08at a Luther Vandross showAnd I'll never forgetYeah Lisa invited us to a Luce Vandrosses showWhat year was this?1980.I'm going to tell us there.Like 86?No, I had to be 86.
35:20It had to be 85.87.No, because it was 86 because I met Pete in 85.Was there air conditioning on in the stadium when you win?Yo, wait.But wait.Cassandra said I'll never forget.What once you ever forget, Sandra?
35:35He was shady.I was minding my own business.She, you know, we said hello.And maybe because she was used to men melting over her as, rightfully so.But she just said hello.And I said, oh, how are you doing?And she thought I was being cold, but I think I just had some indigestion that day.It's like me and why your story.
35:53I think my tongue was hurting like, oh, who's he think he is?I'm sorry to say Victor.Yeah, that sound familiar.It's good to see another dynamic because that's...I'm sorry to say Victor.It was just little Peter L.R.Six-five.She talks...
36:09He's like, she's giving you command of everything.Come on.Come on. He looked down his nose at me.Jeff was like, hey, how you doing?Well, he's like six-foot billion.Exactly, exactly.But you know, he could like look at me, but not look.I was looking at the rest of you, baby.
36:22You have what going on.Nice shoes.Good one.HR, but good one, good one.It was the 80s, really.So.Say that kind of shit.Okay, this is the thing.
36:35I'm really excited that you guys are on the showsimply because the one story that I've,not story, but just the one narrativethat I never, ever got to wrap my head aroundwas what was the environment like for, I guess, the black musicians in trying to navigatethrough the mid-80s, like the Marcus Miller's, the Bernard Wrights, the Tuatha G's, like,what is the stratosphere of you guys?Well, see, you know, all those people you mentioned, so basically all those people came
37:12out of the session scene, right?Right.So the session scene was thick.It's not anymore, right?But back then, you had your West Coast session folks and you had your East Coast session folks and all the people you mentioned,Marcus was more west, but.Marcus was East East, but he ended up going back.Yeah.
37:31But so, I mean, those people are mostly East Coast people and they came out of session.And record labels were looking to like, you know, push people to the front, like M2 May and Tawatha out.out of M-2-May from that session scene.So that's why you got the Mick Murphys and, you know,the Bernard Wrights and those folks that came from that scene.And also Pete and Jeff, you know what I mean?They were offered this producer's deal out of the,because they were doing all these sessions.
38:00But was there a collective where like, I mean, I'm talking even deep,like with Shaka's brother, like Mark Stevens and all these monsters,Lenny White and all those cats?Yeah, we used to hook each other up, man.I mean, definitely.Yeah.There was a real camaraderie with folks.I mean, like Lisa and Brenda White King put me on, you know,
38:20because Lisa knew me before I moved here.And she entered Brenda, and they all sort of took me under their wing,and they put you into the situations you need to be put into.So what was your apprentice situation?Like, if you say that Lisa was a Luther disciple,who was your apprentice situation?That would probably be Roy Ayers then,because, you know, that was how I first got up there, up here.
38:43Where am I now?New York asked me.So, yeah, so it was Roy.It started to tell that story a little bit.Yeah, I got a lot of Roy's story.But you said something like when you came to New Yorkand you were with Roy, like that's when you knew,things were different.
38:57Like the way you entered New York was different.Oh, it was wild as fuck.No, no, let it out.No FCC here.Okay, okay, cool, cool.Okay.Yeah, no, it was definitely a...Put your clothes back on.
39:09Put your clothes back on.I'm seeing Vic Good, no.Oh, close?We have to keep clothes on.Darn.I was trying to let the girls free.Hey.Another me too moment.
39:21Or two me moment.To me.To me.That's a shit.I like that.To me.New songs.See?
39:27See?That's how you come up.That's how songs come up right here.Okay.So, but.We'll get to that too.Get Roy.So Roy, he, I met him in, when I was in,
39:41playing with a group with Zachary, bro.I don't know if you know who he is.And we had to use his equipment.So he came to our show and stuff.And after the show, he was like, I want you to come to New York.You're going to be in my band?I was like, dirty old man, you know.That's kind of what I thought.
39:58Say, okay.No, I was like, ew.Okay.I was right.I was like, ill.Good girl.Yeah, but yeah, I thought he was, you know, just, you know, pushing up, really.So I went and told the band, I'm like, Roy Ayers asked me to, you know,
40:12coming to New York, they were like, yo, let's go.And so I was like, wait, I wasn't really planning on accepting.They were like, no, you got it, just all go.So then I reached out to Roy, and I said, Roy, yeah.So the whole band was going to be says, I don't need the whole band.So, so.I want you.Wow.
40:31That's going to be.I love you too.I was like, that's going to be awkward because they got the van.They got the transportation to get me there.So, so.Sounds like someone else we know.I'll give you a ride home.That is also the DeAngelo's story.
40:47Oh, my God.Oh, okay.So I went, the whole band decided to come.I said, but he said he doesn't really need.So we got there and he took me and Zachary, bro.But when we got there, he had set us up to stay at William Allen's house.William Allen is an arranger, string arranger for all of those beautiful ubiquity arranged songs.He did all those string arrangements.
41:09And we were staying in, I was, no, Zach and I was staying at William Allen's apartment in Harlem.And it was February 21st, 1982, and it was like, you know, 47 inches of snow on the ground.And the cab, like, picked, you know.Is that a gift of yours to recall dates?I remember this, definitely.Oh, just this story.I remember a lot of things like that, that, like, you're like, well, things that terrify you.You have a tendency to.
41:34Okay.Yeah, because we, we passed, I mean, I'm from Dallas, okay?We have nice, large streets and stop signs and lights.Everybody follows the rules.So we got here.We passed by like two blocks.I'm like, sir, I think we passed it.I think it was back there.
41:48He just said, okay, put it in reverse.And just like spread backwards, you know, like two and a half blocks in the snow.And, you know, on a one-way street.And I was just scared shitless.And we got there.And we stayed at Williams.And, you know, there was, he didn't have a bed.for us. He could barely walk through his house
42:10because he was a hoarder.He had no food. And we were like,what can eat? He said, whatever he's fine in the pantry.Open the pantry, roaches jumped out.It was like, this is mine.I was like, oh, fuck.That was like my introduction toNew York. You're back off.
42:32I imagine a much freakyer story.Back off.No, I got a freaky story for him.but that's later.Oh,that's why I thought you.I got a Roach story.I got a real freakist.
42:42Roeke is.Go ahead.It's a whole other freaky.Roy's story.He's crazy.Roy was over there.I don't think I can tell us.I know.
42:50We had him on the show.Oh, you heard the story, John.We should have mentioned it.Yeah, yeah.Go ahead.Tell it.That's okay.No, Roy's nuts.
42:57But yeah, that was.Okay.All right.I mean, that was just my introduction to New York story.That's what I said.All right.So you, I mean, this was obviously.was obviously just a conversation between the three of you.
43:12And you're saying that you met at this Luther Vandro show?Met Sandra.Yeah.Yeah.Okay.A few years before that.Yeah.Well, we were going to try out different singers, but, I mean, I want to back a track.
43:26Actually, because you didn't ask, the person was kind of really my mentor in a way was Jeff.Because he didn't know that, but he was kind of my.No, he's finding out right now.How many interviews have you all done together?Well, the thing is because I, like, I just come out of with the Howard University.You know.You know what the Howard you.And so I was there around the same time as Wayne Lindsay and some other people.
43:54We're here.What year?What year?I graduated in 82.Was Leroy Hudson?Yes.Yes.Was he a teacher there as well?
44:04Yes.He was a teacher there.Okay.Yeah, Leigh-Hudson?That guy?I think that's, I think you're talking about, yeah, I think, yeah, I think if that's who you're talking about.But I wasn't even the jazz band, but I had been, how the Renee and Angela thing, right, I think right, if I graduated or right, something like that.I was working with a friend who was a singer who was a singer named Raymond Reeder, a great singer.
44:26Yeah, yeah, I remember.That was a group, right?Right, yeah.And had a female, too, right?Right, they were going to turn this into another Shalimar, okay?Yeah, so that's who, that's who, that's who, that's who, that's who we were.were going to be another Shalamo, right?Okay.
44:38All right.As you can see, it didn't quite work.Y'all can't pop lock in?Yeah, couldn't pop, yeah.Six, five pop and don't really, you know,look like Pinocchio or whatever, trying to pop lock.But anyway, so I was in that bad, but that situation didn't work out.I won't get to the gory details of it, but didn't that didn't work out, and I went
44:57back to New York.But I wasn't really necessarily in the New York scene like Jeff was.You know, sometimes I would hang with Jeff, and he was working with Kish, and I wentwith him up there and a lot of people who were there were like,who's the guy over there, you know.He's a weird guy.Who's the weird guy?You know, Jeff, no, Jeff said, no, he's cool.
45:15That was the question.Yeah.I don't even remember you going up there.You went up there with me?They only let me up there once.Okay, okay.But when I was up there once there was a,because he had a whole bunch of songwriters
45:25and they were like working and said,we can come up with these ideas and they said,well, you write songs, right?I said, yeah, I know, I write a little bit.So, so right now, and they were kind of jammed an idea,and I was like, oh, you're like,And I came, I started singing something.They were like, that's all right, that's cool.
45:39And then I left.I think about maybe a year later, I kind of heard what I was singing that day.But, and I'm not lying either.But, so there was a, like,so I knew some of the people from Howard University,but in terms of like the New York crewand hanging all the singers and stuff,I didn't kind of really know as much as Sandra and Jeff.
46:01But as we got a chance we produced a recordlike Jeff was saying, we got to do some stuffwith Merlin Bob and said we were on the Atlanticand they said, I want you guys do a producer albumand that's how it came about finding a singer.Right, right, right.But the thing is, since I was the outsiderand the most fucked up one of the group, all right,
46:17they didn't know people, you know,the instrument you're talking about that timesand how people related.It was a click.Yeah, it was a kind of a click.I was never in kind of any clicks and I'd be like,Jeff, can I, can I go with you?So yeah, no, he's cool.
46:29He's cool. He's cool.You know, but it affected kind of a soundthe music because the 80s was a very unique time.I'm, unique time.It's like the kind of bridge as you knowtransition.Transition.It was definitely transition.
46:44Transition.And all I know is whatever the fuck was going on in the 80s for me personally,I wasn't fucking digging.But I hadn't really realized what that was yet.So these things were really great, but there was a certain sound.So we started to make our album, why Saja fit in.All these singers, they would like, and it came from a little bit from the Kashif School.He made some real dope records.
47:05It was like, it was a type of singing back there with background singers,love come down.You know what that kind of.Ha'n.Hey,who.And that shit was tight.This is my favorite episode of my podcast ever.
47:20This is my dream.This is like talking to three am mirrors.Like all this random information.I don't have to say shit.She was like,hang who he.But, you know, but Sandra, when she said she was like,She was a siren.
47:36She was that fucking Tina Turner kind of like,my shit is unbridled.I'm trying to be,he-hoo,but I wasn't really into that.So you didn't like the sheen and the professionalism.Yeah, I didn't know what that thing was.And we were doing backgrounds and the album,
47:49I'd be like, could you guys not make it so clean?They'd be like,what's wrong?That was a Jackie Deeson double take for those on radiowho didn't see what I just did.I see, I see.Dad, who's Jackie Leeson?But anyway.
48:00So in terms ofSondi just fit into an energy that we hadand we knew naturally.And even with our first album chapters,we hadn't really locked in quite to what that thing was.But all I knew was I didn't want to hear the shit I had been hearing.Yeah, yeah.Okay, well, let's get to that.
48:22I think we could safely assumethat the most defined sound of what the 80s wasat least for the beginning of the 80s to the mid-80s,I mean,was the kind of sound that Prince crafted that Minnesota...Well, not for us.But there was buggy, I know,with the work that Kashif did and everything in Brooklyn.
48:48He did big time with work, James.Leroy Burgess and...Any Leroy Burgess?Well, V.JF, you work with everyone.Did you...My life is a blurring.I mean, Ihave worked with a lot of people.
49:04I mean, the 80s to me,I mean, I think the 70sto me was like the best time for music.Of course.But the 80s was transitionalto me because the sound justchanging and I thought people were just tryingto figure things out in terms of
49:20the sound sonically.Everything kind of just soundedstiff andperfect. And we justkind of had to go through that.I mean, even today, as much as we can get to anything that we want, sometimes sonically, things just sound kind of over quantized to me.Hell yeah.Yeah, everything just sounds kind of over quantized.
49:44And it's not bad.It's not a bad thing or a good thing, but it's a thing.It's a thing.Yeah, yeah, it's numbing.Because the funny thing is I went to visit my son over the Christmas holidays.You know what I mean?I don't really celebrate Christmas, but, you know.I had to go see my son.
50:02So he was taking me back to the airport,and we were listening to all this music, right?And I'm hearing one song, and everything sounds perfect.Everything, you know, harmonies, big drums,everybody's into the loudness and the, you know.So this one song comes on by this girl, I forgot her name.But it sounded so soulful, harmonies.As soon as the song finished, me and my son started laughing at the same time.
50:30We started laughing at the same night.You know, he's my son, but he realized that everything sounded the same.And there's always like just kind of one song that will kind of stick out.And you realize how fucked up things have kind of gotten.And everybody's kind of just playing the, you know, I got to sound like the last thing, you know.So, you know, was I making a point here?Yeah.Or was it just kind of rambling?
50:54Everything sounds the same.Yeah.Well, that's the thing, though.But in the 80s, you have to change.choose a path.And for sure.It's like there's boogie,there's
51:05the Minneapolis Prince Town.There's also hip hop.How are you guys wrestling withwhat hip hop is becomingthe fact that you're developinga craft, but yet you're peoplethat just seem to...Well, I think what the key
51:22transition was forus and thenhow it leads musically, is thatthere was this link with 60s and70s childrenmusic.So, but then the music gotelectronic and slick.
51:35Right.But what the bridge waswas hip hop.So hip hop wasfeeding off of thatrawness from theJames Brownand the drums
51:42and all that kind of stuff.In the late 80s though.In the latein the late, yeah,it was starting,yeah.In the mid-80,like have you guys
51:49dealt with Larry Smithor?I'm just throwingout New York names.I know him.I mean,yeah, I don't know him personally.I don't know him
51:58personally,but I know of him.I know of him.I know of them.I think the thought was, what I was getting to is like, we did a session.I went to, I was fond of Jeff, carrying Jeff's bags to a session one day.And it was, and I would just, you know, lots of that I would just sit there and be quietand listen to people.
52:17And they were doing a hip-hop record.And I was listening to it and I was like, you know, at that particular time, I hadn't reallyheard yet somebody bring the sensibilities of hip-hop of the drums that was happening underneath.with a melodic song kind of at that particular time.So that concept of bringing that together.And plus, there was starting to be on East Coast,certain rock records that I heard that I liked.And then listening to more soulful stuff.
52:50And since we were called the stand,we were going to become the family stand and change your namebecause Yvonne Jeffries in the stand was too confusing.That story, we can get to it a later time.Yeah, but.That's what led to ghetto heaven, that idea of let me sing a songwithin the context of this hip-hop roar-ish type of beat.I'm going to tell them how ghetto heaven came to be.
53:19What is ghetto heaven?I love that we're going to break down the song before I even get to how you guys got yourgroup name, but let's go.You want me to tell you how the song came to be?Yes.You know Salam Remy.Yes, we do.He was kind of the inspiration for that song.
53:38Because when we were on our first album,you know, we did the first album,the record company, you know,we were like that group that they didn't exactly knowwhat to do with us.So they kind of fucked us around and, you know.So I said, I knew Saran.Who's your A&R?
53:59It was Merlin Bob.Merlin Bob.You're on an electric?That was Atlantic.It was Atlantic.So Merlin Bob was that Atlantic?Atlantic.First?
54:08Yeah.Okay.I remember his electric phase with Sylvia.Sylvia was.They were.They both went together.Okay.I forgot.
54:14I forgot.Yeah.They were getting us all,me and Pete,all the production work, you know.Okay.But anyway,after that first album,
54:24I knew Salam Remy's fatherbecause him and I grew up together.We did the children.In the Midland Circuit.You know, we did a lot of sessions together.So I said, Pete, we need to go talk to my friend Van, Van Gibbs, right?So Van was over there on 54th Street and 11th Avenue.I said, I set up a meeting him so we could kind of talk because we were getting kind of frustrated with what the record company was not doing for us.
54:51And we had out a little talk and then we heard this music coming in from the basement.I said, what's that?He said, that's my son.His name is, I knew, that's my son, Salam.He's going to be a producer.He said, you want to, he said, you want to go down and listen?So we went down and listened to the music.And then he listened to the music.
55:14He said, he came home and listened to me.He said, I got an idea.He said, I got an idea.So after we left Vans, we went straight back to Ebbisfieldand worked on Ghetto,came up with a drumbeat.came up with a drum beat.Now, if you remember the original version of Red Ful-Y drummer.
55:36With funky drama, came up with a bass line.That came from, because I was in love with Kulmodee.And I said, Jeff, I was in love with Kudmodee.What's that?He had a song, The Wild Wild West.Doom-Bu-to-Bum-to-boom-to-bo-to-bo-to-bo-thum-th.So then I didn't even know that.You remember?
55:52I thought, I said, I like that bass.Why get the film?Y'all just mean each other right now.I know that bass line.Yeah.So then you changed.You said,Badoo-B-B-Do-boom-B-Dub.
56:04So he was like,Babum-boom-boom.Yeah.I was like, I love that bass line.So then you like sort of fucked the word.You twisted a little bit.So the record company heard it.Yeah, but see, here's a thing.
56:17Here's a thing.See, this is the piece of thepiece that I always remember about the inspiration of ghetto heaven.Because the salam thing was part of that.But also the we had goneto the label, we had submitted the whole record.Right, right. We had submitted the whole album.And they were like, yeah, this is dope. It's dope. We didn't hear no singles.
56:33Yeah, yeah.So we were like, son of it. And soexcited. We was excited aboutthe album and disappointedthat they didn't hear, you know, because we feltlike they were singles, you know?That was changed, right? It was changed. So we were like,I remember, I remember, you know,
56:49eventually getting back to studioand was like, you know, we was just like,they just won nursery rhymes.They just won't nurseRivesThey were likeI know I love my babyNo I love my baby
57:02I rememberHe did the same thing withRush Rush RushRush was a dareWait wait time outWas Rush Rush Rush the last songDone for Spellbound?No
57:13No it was the first songYou did the same formulaExactly rightNo noNo it wasn'tNoYou want here to rush rushstory
57:22I said you can'tYou can't play, you can't write a song with just two chords.No, no.No, no, that wasn't it.That was, what I was, that was, that was pretty part.You know, man.The other part was, no, at the time, what happened, what happened was.Usually what happens is, you know, at the time, Babyface was writing a lot of songs.
57:43We would go back and during that.And Babyface is a great songwriter, of course.I love him.But I would say to her, I can write those songs in my sleep.Come out.So did you purposely use the DX7?That's just as a point of sarcasm?No, it wasn't it, but the sarcasm was, I literally said,
58:01because I knew what his thing was.The thing was, there was the way he hit the beat.So I was like, I jokingly went to the piano and I said,You're the whisper of a summer breeze.You're a kiss that puts my soul at ease.And I was like, oh, that sounds good.And that's the first two things I said.But there was a way he used, he would write songs.
58:25They're kind of going, I want to run, I want to try.I'm going to take to you.On my heart, on myself.It's a pocket to a song.And every song when it has their pocket,so once you figure out what the mofo's pocket is,you'd be like, oh, you want that type of song?You want that type of song?
58:46That's the pocket of that thing.So it's all of,S.Take that.Wow.So that's it, my brother.brother.Yo.
58:57Who you texted me?I gotta do this.Who you calling?Baby face,yo, this two sit here.I got to do this.Wait, I got to do this.Wait, I got to do this.
59:03Hang on.Please pick up.What time is it on the?Oh, it's, okay.Just pick up, please.I meant to tell him that when I met him, too, but he wasn't.He was paying him.It's not a butt down.
59:16Okay.It's an odd time.It's six o'clock.Damn it.Damn it.Damn it.I'm officially calling Joe.Jimmy Jam to let him know that he's officially my second favorite
59:28question of a message.He should have left of a message.He said a left of a message.No, he's going to call back.I think he thinks that I'm butt-dolling, but...Oh, I got Jimmy Jam.Just bring him.Bring him.
59:43No, I know, because it really was for Jimmy Jam,because the first song that I did that we kind of did it together,but I did this track with this song for this girl named Janice Christie.Okay.Heat stroke.It's one of the worst songs I ever wrote, but it came a little bit of a hit.It was a hit though.It was a hit.
01:00:02What year was this?This is 1986 or 87, something like that.Yeah.So the Janet Jackson's record had come out, so everybody was trying to do that, what have you done for me lately?And what was that, what was that song by that group?On that album?No, but it was another group.There's another song that came out, Alice Be My Girl.
01:00:22Full Force?Full Force.Full Force had a record, right?That was really dope.I want you just for me.Yeah, so the baseline for heat stroke was a kind of a combination of rubble for Jimmy.And they was like, so it was like,do, do, do, do, do.
01:00:38That sounds kind of funky.That's kind of funny.Yeah, I know that.But do, do, do, do, but do.You know, so, so it was that.And the song was horrible, too.He d'ed a stroke up.I thought it was funky, man.
01:00:53I'm burning up.For the moment, it was kind of flawed.It was fly for the time.But usually in my joke songsend up being hits,but I'm trying to be all deep.That's what happens.All the jokes songs are the hits.
01:01:02I swear to God.Ghetto Heaven, rush, rush.So he is?Like, promise of a good day.Even he is?Oh, no, no, no.I was serious about that.No, I was serious.
01:01:11But notice, he put that one out under another name.No, it's like you noticed.You did it, Alan Smithy?Yeah, that was really dumb too.Why?Because at the time.Because I never knew till now.Because in 2000, around 2004, I'm like,
01:01:23They're not checking for us anymore.I'm going to take my name to Joshua Nile.You sure did.So they think I'm a new young hip hop cat.Which was the dumbest shit I ever did in my fucking, oh, sorry.No, you don't know about that.Stop.Stop editing yourself.
01:01:35Oh, yeah.You don't know about Josh.Joshua Nile?Yeah, so I wrote he.We did our research.He is.But the thing is what inspired that was, again, going back to hip hop.What was, there was this record that I love?
01:01:48Broken language or broken?Broken language by smooth the last one.Yeah, yeah, that track.It was like, so, so, so.So he was like, the mind.The world.Yes.So I'm like, he is the dope-electa, the tuba-de-de-tector.
01:02:00That's what's going on.So when you combine.Motherfucker.Yo, when I hear her that song?You're right.The heaven sinner.The cocaine cooker.The hookup on your hookah hooker.
01:02:13The 35 cents short so my two-for-fives overlooking.The rap burner.The Ike, the Tina Turner.Asked whiff and learner.The hit man, the money earner.Oh, God.So that's,so that's the connection between, you know, the soul and the hip-by.
01:02:39That was your R&B, broken language by Smooth the Hustler?Yeah, basically.Call it, Jimmy Jam back.Call it back.It's your number two now.You know what?The interesting thing about that project that I remember, too,is that I remember them taking a long time to get back to us about doing the song,
01:03:02And we almost thought that they didn't want to do the song.And we almost thought that maybe they were trying to get somebody else to produce the song.And it was like, it was just kind of a weird thing.And I think we almost gave the song away.Yeah, what the problem was they didn't, they didn't intend for the first single to come from us.Exactly, exactly.They didn't intend for the first single to come from us.And so.
01:03:28But they made the right choice.They made the right choice.But finally.But about that album, though.And go back to Jimmy and Terry,because we love, love, love, love than the one of our famous.But their second single was,I wish I don't.
01:03:44The singer, yeah, I think it was called I Wish or something.But there's a song we had on there called Four Words from a Heartbrain.There was a really dope song that actually...Should have been the next single.Should have been the next single.But it was a tie, so it was good.But, you know, there's a lot of times with music industry,is politics and, you know,
01:04:04most of the time. Yeah, and weget it, though, and we, the name, andwe actually had offered that, so I think we had tried to get itto Whitney Houston, and then I thinkSatan, I'm sorry, Chris,Clive Davis. Clive Davis. Yeah, I'm sorry.Oh, my girl.Shack Myers. You got to let that shit
01:04:20that shit. That shit was great.The way you dropped it, it was justthe way, can I say something?I didn't know that MySpace is still a thing.It is?Well, I mean, maybe in the archive world, wherever that thing is.Unfortunately, my, whatever, the bio and my space thing is like,Clive Davis is the devil.
01:04:43And someone from Arisden called me out on that shit.They did?Yeah.Clyde don't know.Fuck him.But now I just said it.Anyway.Getting them invites to them dinners, though.
01:04:53I wasn't invited in the first place.That's all right.That's why I created the Grammy gym session.It's on the same night.I'm sorry.That's right.I love everybody.2%. That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available.
01:05:14I'm Michael Easter, and on my podcast, 2%.I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world.I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts, and more,to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry.We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory.We got it wrong.Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are the result of stress.Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person.
01:05:54Listen to 2%.That's T-W-O-Persent on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.A win is a win.A win.I don't care what you're saying.Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th.You might have seen the skits, the reactions,my journey from basketball to college football,
01:06:16or my career in sports media.Well, somewhere along the way,this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.And now I'm bringing all of that excitementto my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.This is a place for raw,unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.
01:06:35One week, I'll take you behind the scenesof the biggest moments in sports and entertainment.And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast.It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told,and for people who are chasing something bigger.So if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream,this is right where you need to be.
01:06:57Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast,or wherever you get your podcast.And for more behind the scenes, follow at Cliffordand at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.top. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said thatGeorge Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does GeorgeBush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J.And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of
01:07:28how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s.To be clear, 84 was big to me not just because of crack.I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know.I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack.So I'm starting to see that there's a through line.We also have AIDS on the table right now.Thank you for finishing that sentence.Yes.
01:07:54I don't think there's a more important year for black people.Really?Yeah.For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history.Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app,Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.Oh,wait.
01:08:11Oh, yo, my mind is about to explode right nowbecause we're all over the place.All right, so since we're, no, no, we're just being sporadic.Yeah.This is why I want to know.Because when I got wordthat you guys were producing Spell Bell Bell.Paul Abdul's second album.
01:08:29Yes, her second album.Her follow-up to her,I mean, her, it was a massive record for you.Yeah, I mean, for every year.girl was more like an industry that builtvirginand opportunitieslike that don't come
01:08:46they don't that story doesn't happenwhen I heard you guys were producing itand the line share of the recordI was like yolike how yeahthat's from him playing in our houseplaying a piano andhow did that happen
01:09:07because I would have thoughtokayWell, okay, knocked out.That was upstart, L.A. Mabay-Mabe-B-Face.But now that they're the shit,like she's in industry now.Y'all were doing Aftershock first, right?She wanted to do something different.
01:09:23She was, this is where I-She wanted to make an artistic statement?Yeah, she did.She didn't want to feed the machine.No, she didn't want to do,she felt like she was, she wanted to do something different.To move past that.Yeah, yeah.
01:09:34That's why I give her a lot of credit.She was big enough to make her own.And she's really underestimated in terms of,of her artistic intellect and discipline.So she heard Rush Rush, so she flipped over that.And we were working with a group called Aftershock that we did an album for Visions.So that's how she kind of heard about us.And after she heard Rush, Rush, she loved that.
01:09:55And then what else did we write?Then I think Blown Kisses in the Wind.Promise of a New Day.Yeah, Promise of a New Day.And then we marry me.So did I hear that?No, the problem of the new day was so dark the way those dissonant strings came in.But the juxtaposition of this video being so sunny and everything and everything, I was like, yo.
01:10:17But listen, the coolest song on there, I'm sorry, it was viabology.Oh, I remember Viagology.What pissed me off?What happened?I think the MTV Award performance did a disservice.That did it in.Because literally the next day, freaking, we were watching it.We're watching. Well, all shit.
01:10:34So the next day, the managers told us, yo, ready is literally.saying you're not sending us the fatsong, are you? Ain't that a bitch?Yo, man.She wasn't even fat.Can I put in context?I gotta go look at the video.I'm Googling the video.
01:10:51So she, no, it's not even the video.She performed at the MTV Awards.And because, you know, I mean, pre-social media,I don't even know how people managed to, like,I knew the collective thought was that, oh my God, what happened to Paula?Exactly.And they blamed the song.Right, they blamed the.
01:11:10And I like the song.That was the next single.What did they?And they like, they just sort of,she gave way.No.It was literally her a costume.You know when you have like the,
01:11:18she had a weird costume on with some headlights on that.But it was a wireless microphone, I think,something on the back of something that kind of made it jet out funny.So the angles quarter said it made it look,she's two pounds if that and it made it look like she was like three pounds.Yeah.Yeah, exactly.So literally the radio was like,
01:11:35because they were sending the single the next day,they were like, you're not sending us the fat song.And it just.It just killed the momentum of that song.And honestly, I mean, if I'm going to tell you, that, that performed, the backgrounds on that song for me is the most proud I am of any background I've done recorded in my career because of the fact that I got to use my classical training.Vibology.All of that.I did all of those.
01:12:02I did all of those.Can we kind of ask you about that?Because Bill sent a video, audio of when she was in high school.And I was like, this can't really be Sondra.It was like, it was like the opera.We're nerds.I know how to find things.Uh-oh.
01:12:17We're nerds.We're the government.Uh-oh.Be the government.Hope they don't find that Vanessa del Rio tape.Oh.That's play school now.That's another thing.
01:12:28I know, right.But wait, Sandra, Stang's in.Range, ma'am.Well, no, I mean, I was trained.I mean, you know, I went to like music and art,where Erica went, where Roy Hart,Grove went Nora Jones.All that shit went out the window when she made us.
01:12:42They told me to stop being so perfect.Then I was, you know, it's like, oh, really?Okay.Yeah.Rock and roll.I might get it in the race.Can you still hit the, you still got?Of course.
01:12:55Yeah.I mean, yeah, that's in you, you know.So the classical training never leaves you.But the, that's what I got.The best training I got isn't being in the studio, Pete and Jeff telling me theFeel is the most important thing.The feel.Don't lose the feel.
01:13:12I'm like, can I do that again?They're like, no, I felt good.You're not doing it again.I'm like, please, got to do it again?Like, nope.So, yeah.Yeah, they didn't let me, you know, perfect it.They don't let me perfect it.
01:13:25So, you know, they're like that.So after two takes, then it's like, that's a rat.Whatever to take is right.Whenever to take is right.And I wanted to be like something else.But if it feels right, and they both end up, you know,They're like that and Mark Batson is like that.Those producers don't care if the note is right, if the, if the, if the, if the, the, the, the, the, they want the take to feel right.
01:13:52That's the, the prime objective.So, you know, that's important because, you know, I listened, I was actually the day listened to a bunch of, like, you know, 70s and 80s stuff like Jean Carn and, you know, infinize.And I'm like, she ain't singing it.It ain't like perfect.It's about the feel.It's about, you know, it's about where she's coming from with the note.It's not about where the note lands, where she comes from.But it's funny because she still has a similar background as you were.
01:14:21She knows how to do it classically.Oh, yeah.She's classically trying to.Yeah.Jeff, you're not getting away with this.I'm sorry.Come on, man.Come on, man.
01:14:31I have to at least back up the tree in at least 15 years just to start with, forFor starters, you were taught by Yusuf Latif?No, I studied with him for a second in college.For a second in, I wasn't taught by him.I went to Borough of Manhattan Community College for about a year.That was just my extent of college.Because once I made it out of high school, I don't know how.I said, let me get a college to try.
01:15:00So I got in there and I studied with him for a little while.And he was, you know, he was showing me something.In fact, I didn't even know he played flute.I didn't know the flute was his thing.And, you know, I just once a week, I go and, you know,we just do some private lesson things.And, you know, that's about my extent,the extent of me studying with him.
01:15:24What is your preferred weapon of choice as far as your arsenal?Is a soprano, alto tenor?I've been playing a lot of soprano lately.I don't want to.I mean, gun, do you?your head, what's your axe?Because you have so many...Tenor. Don't say gun to...
01:15:45Tenor. With this guy.Right.No right.Good one.You're on that one.Put my shit out.Tenor, but I've been playing a lot of sopranoprobably the last
01:15:59maybefour or five years.I've been playing a lot of soprano,a lot of soprano.I love you on Barry.though.I love you on Barry, too, but that doesn't make me enough.I'm going to ask you, okay, so here's the question I have.
01:16:16So our particular sax player, Ian, what's Ian's last name?Hendrickson Smith.Ian Hendrickson Smith.Formerly of the Dap Kings.And so the thing is that Ian hates when I make him break out the soprano.Now, for us, it's hilarious.but he hates the sheen associated with the soprano.Well, I mean, that, and, you know, it's almost like,
01:16:46I guess the unwritten rule is like after Coltrane, you know,is done with it.Who else wants to?And more power Wayne shorter, more power to, you know,I know there are other greats that I've touched.I didn't like Coltrane's sound on soprano.You serious?I didn't like a sound on soprano.
01:17:05You're the, you are one of a kind of.I didn't like his sound on surprise.He said it loud.Tanner, he's my favorite all time,but soprano I didn't like his tone on soprano.Who did you like on soprano?I like Wayne Shorter.Oh, yeah, okay.
01:17:19So you feel the definitive sound of the soprano sax is Wayne Shorter?No, not the definitive sound.His sound just connects with me more on soprano.Coltrane, because I think he got, if I remember correctly,that was something that was a gift from Miles, right?Yes.Yeah, so, you know, he,picked it up. I guess he was trying to do something, but I wasn't crazy about his sound, sonically
01:17:42his sound. I wasn't crazy about his sound. So what were you looking for as far as engineering or?I wasn't looking for anything. It just wasn't connecting me. It just sounded kind of.Contrived. No, not even contrived. I think he was sincere about what he was doing, but it justdidn't sound. It wasn't for me. That's the best way I could describe it. So what's your favorite periodof Coltrayman? Giant steps.All right. It's a minute period. Or even.free spiritual orno the stuff when he started going out
01:18:11you don't like the primitive and the stuff when he startedI mean I like theI mean the stuff where he started going outit just got a little bit too out for meokay but uhthe era of giant steps before thatyou know stuff he was doing in the 60swith Miles was I loved all of that stuff
01:18:30I mean he had like a sound to mehe just had his sound just connectedI remember.So who's your sax god then?Because I just naturally assume that everyone worships theColtrane no matter what.Yeah, Coltrane no matter what.I mean, I like Michael Brecker.
01:18:51He was like that cat to me.Unksum Hero, okay.You know, I mean, those two guys.I mean, there's just so many guys.I mean, I could go back to Dexter Gordon.and Prez had his own sound, you know, the smooth thing.Bird was just, bird was fast.I mean, man, bird was just, I don't know, man.
01:19:19So explain to me, because the thing is that you managed to capture,the one thing I always hear about when an iconic solo is captured in a song,it's always the same storyand the story isokay guys I'm ready to cut itnope we got it alreadythank you very muchI know that's your story
01:19:44but are youonce did you know that youcaptured lightning in a bottlewith your saxophone soloand Caribbeanno no thatthat I have to give creditto the producer
01:19:59Keith Diamond at the timebecause he was the onethat he knew pretty much what he wanted in terms of the song.So we would just take sections because, I mean, I went into the studio,and I was just kind of trying to get a feel of what the song was,and they had the tape rolling.He told Bob Rosa to roll the tape while I was playing,and I was in front of the mic.
01:20:24They were trying to get a sound.So I said, okay, I think I got something.And then he said, no, come on in.So you were just warming up.Huh?I was just warming up.You didn't beg them to let me just do a take of it.No, no, that song was pieces, because he had the whole tape rolling, and he took pieces
01:20:42of what I played throughout the, from the beginning of the song to the end.I want you to play this part here, and we just kind of constructed the solo.And the interesting thing about it is like, after that song blew up, man, I was getting calls.Like, everybody in their mother was calling me, and my friend Van, he said, yo, Jeff,You need to start charging people because I was undercharging people.He said, you know, your shit is hot.You need to get paid for it.So I just started charging people.
01:21:22Going up a little more?Yeah.I went up a lot more.I will say, Steve couldn't attest to this.So when Billy Ocean finally agreed to come on a show,and this is after six long years of begging him,please come on the Tonight Show.Please, please, please.
01:21:43Tonight show.And he finally agrees to come to the show and we're losing our shit.And then I'm looking at Ian, our sax player.And we were like, dude, you have to do it note for fucking note.And do we spend two hours just singing that shit to him?But you don't know that.Like everybody knows that solo.Like between that solo and Carolyn's whisper.
01:22:09Those are the solos of the ages.But here's the thing, though.It's like I know a lot of Tariq's lyrics.Tariq, you know, I mean, Tariq, well, let me, let me not misrepresent him.I think the average person knows, like, can retain like maybe 75 songs or 75, those things.But it's just like, I mean, I know that song because I DJed so much.you know, watch TV all the time.You're an American.
01:22:45Americans who were born before 80 have to know that,note for note, that solo.Like, Chief is like deep, like, he's like Doug Carn.He's frie jazz.Okay.Boozy jazz.Boosy jazz.It's not boozy.
01:23:00Like, he's more avant-garde.That's where his heart is.I mean, he made his meat and potatoes as the Dap King.So all that, like.You don't think it's boozy when you don't know the solo to Caribbean.Come on, man.No, no, no.You know it.
01:23:11But I don't think, like,Anybody that's on the Tonight Show now, like again, my story is that I didn't grow up saying,hey, one day I'm going to be the new Doc Severnson of the Tonight Show.It just happened.And I'm prepared for it.But part of the job of being on the Tonight Show is that you, all the pop culture sponging that you've done your life, everything you've learned,now gets utilized on the show.So, you know.
01:23:41Yeah, yeah, yeah.I mean, you know that solo, but it's like now you've got to execute it perfectly.Executed.That's different.Well, yeah, that's, no, that's, that's, that's, that's, Carol's Whisper.I'm sorry, wait up.I love that solo, man.Right way.
01:23:56Do, da-da-da-da-na.Right.All right, now you're singing in Sanford or something.No.Did you still,When's the last time you had to play that solo verbatim?Or don't tell me 35 years ago after I did it, that was it.When I had to play it?
01:24:25Yes.I can't remember.You didn't tour with him at all?Oh, no, no, no, no.The only two times I really played with him was one night.The week, the night, he was on Saturday Night Live.He did two nights at Radio City.Those were the only times that I ever played with, with Big.
01:24:42really. And ironically, the last night that I played with him was when I lost the horn that I had.Because we went out. You literally lost that horn?No, let me tell you what happened. After the show, you know, because he sold out Radio City two nights,I sat him with him two nights. The second night we went and we, after the show, we went to kindto celebrate, you know, went up, got a couple of drinks. I went down into the, after we were done,I went down into the garage to get my car.The guy brought my car.My horn was in the back of the car.
01:25:22I didn't put it in the car yet.I went and paid for the car and drove off and left my horn.When I got home, I looked in the trunk.I was like, oh shit.So I went back to the garage.Of course, they didn't see nothing.They didn't see nobody.saw anything. So the only time
01:25:43I ever see that horn for reruns ofSaturday Night Live.Ironically, but... Somewhere in life, there'slike some grandkid that got asaxophone for church. Yeah, yeah.Not knowing what they just got.Yeah, well, somebodyyeah, some... Jesus Christ.
01:25:59That thing should be in the Blacksonian.Come on.Blacksonian, yeah.So, Sandra.Yeah, Sanja. Okay.So your journey isjust as rich as well.I tell you, we're not even going to get, properly get to the family family stand.
01:26:14This is almost like a nine-part episode.Prequel.I know.Open doors.How much, how much pounding of the payment did you do in New York?Oh, wait.Can you wait one second, please?We're getting a phone call.
01:26:30Oh, really?We're getting a phone call right now.Oh, are we?James Harris, the third?Yes, sir.What's up, man?How you doing?I'm currently right now.
01:26:39taping an episode of Quest Love Supreme.Okay.I regret to form you of this, and I've made it public.I've declared my loyalty, my allegiance to you,since the history of my show.But you are now officially in second place as...You hang up?You're...
01:27:03You've been...You've been demoted.You've been demoted.You've been demoted to second place.because the Family Stand episodeis the craziest thingI've ever heard in my life.Is that right?
01:27:18Yes, I'm currently right nowwith V. Jeffrey, Sondra, St. Victor,and Peter.And, yeah, I had to tell you that live on the airthat...We love you, bro, by the way.We love you, sweetie.You know that.
01:27:30Thank you for giving me the heads up on Prince.But I don't need sympathy, love,I'm not.They got to hit you on serious radio, by the way.Now they're like, they're going to do your show.Yes, I don't.Yeah, yeah, yeah.We want to come on your show too.
01:27:45We'll be there.We'll be there.Let's call us.More sympathy love.I'm sorry.This is the craziest, the stories I've heard.You know, like we're very organized.We're going to chronological order.
01:27:56No, it's just going all over the places.I can't wait to hear it, man.Yes, man.Anyway, I just want to let you know.You're number two, but you're still number one, but you're number two now.This ain't going to be six hours.What did you say?I'm still number one as a solo act, though.
01:28:10Yes.You're the number one solo.Thank you.I'm just going to go get my category together.All right.You're still the number one solo act on Quest Love Supreme.Thank you.Okay, perfect.
01:28:20Okay, thank you.All right, bro.All right, bro.All right, bro.That's all right.Oh, God.Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold up.Wait a minute.
01:28:31All right.You know when you hear my voice,sorry, you're disappointed,but you're going to have to wait seven more days to get.This is beyond.auntie. This is, wow, I can't even describe what you're experiencing right now. I think this isprobably shaping up to be one of my favorite episodes. And I know I went on record to say thatJimmy Jam had the absolute best episode of Quest Love Supreme. But this might be neck and neck.
01:28:59I don't know. I'm going to have to ask the rest of the team Supreme. So please join us next weekfor part two of this already legendary classic, instant classic episode of the family stand.on Questlove Supreme.Quest Love Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio.For more podcasts from IHart Radio,visit the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.2%.
01:29:32That's the number of people who take the stairswhen there is also an escalator available.I'm Michael Easter.I'm on my podcast, 2%.I break down the signs of mental toughness,fitness, and building resiliencein our strange modern world.Put yourself through some hardships,
01:29:49and you will come out on the other sidea happier, more fulfilled, healthier person.Listen to 2%that's TWA% on the I-HeartRadio app,Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.A win is a win.A win is a win.I don't care what I'm saying.
01:30:10Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th.You might have seen the skits,my basketball and college football journey,or my career in sports media.Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitementto my brand new podcast.the Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators,and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it.
01:30:31Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get yourpodcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.On the Look Back at a podcast.For 1979, that was a big moment for me. Eighty-four's big to me.I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick you here, unpack whatwent down and tried to make sense of how we survived it with our friends, fellow comedians,and favorite authors.Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s.
01:30:59It was a wild year.It was a wild year.I don't think there's a more important year for black people.Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.This is an IHeart podcast.Guaranteed human.
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