The Questlove Show - Riz Ahmed

Episode Date: July 13, 2026

Oscar and Emmy winner Riz Ahmed sits down with Questlove for a personal conversation that spans music, art, identity, and purpose. Bonding over a lifelong love of music (especially Hip-Hop), the two reflect on the moments that have defined their careers. Riz also shares the inspiration behind recent projects, including the new series Bait and his bold interpretation of Hamlet. Recorded virtually after an in-studio session became impossible, this episode captures an authentic exchange between two boundary-pushing artists whose stories stretch across the Atlantic.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. The Questlove Show is a production of I-Heart Radio. All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Questlove Show. I'm here at IHeart Studios, L.A. Today, my guest may be 1,000 miles away, but he's right up here on your screen. An Oscar, an Emmy winner,

who's left a mark on film and TV, be it the night of, sound of metal, the long goodbye. already know the range. And this artist is using his talents in to raise discussion and awareness. And right now he's bringing Hamlet back to theaters, starring in and producing a new Amazon series Bait. And beyond all that, he's a musician too, awesome MC. We're going to get into it. So many people tell me how amazing it is to talk to him and I got to see it for myself. So please welcome Rizamad to The Quest Love Show. How you doing, brother?

Father, what's up? Doing well, man. It's an honor to be here talking to you, man. Yeah, thank you for the kind intro. Thank you, thank you. Were you talking to me from right now? I'm in New York. I'm here doing press for Hamlet.

Okay. I know that's a taxing thing, so I appreciate you taking the time to do this for us. My first question to you is, what is the early snapshot you have of yourself as a kid as far as your memories are concerned. You know, one of the most prominent memories I would have, I was a few, you know, one of them is like playing cricket and basketball in my driveway, my big brother, and spending the whole summers doing that.

But another thing they used to do on my own, the whole time, is act out movies, fake movies. So I would, like, kind of decide on, like, a genre, like, this is a crazy violent, like, action movie, or this is, like, home alone had just come out. So I was like, this is like a kid comedy or whatever, and just like act out these elaborate entire stories from start to finish. I used to make a note of it.

I used to name the film, give it a title and a rating. If it was you, PG, parental guidance, at 12, 18. And I had this teenage mutant ninja tells, like book, notepad with all the list of all these. My favorite, the banger that I was most proud of was Black Dragon. It was a motorcycle kung fu trilogy. And this is like from when I was young, man. I just always used to do that. It was when I was like into like Bruce Lee films and then Jackie Chan.

So yeah, I used to do that. Wait, did you film these or you just imagine them that you were in it yourself? No, no. This is much less impressive than you're imagining. I'd neither wrote these things down nor did I film them. Oh, okay. Just run around acting out the entire story and playing all the different characters of these weird movies. The only evidence of them left behind is somewhere in a turtle's notepad.

It says Black Dragon 1, Black Dragon 2, Black Dragon 3, 18, R-rated. Or, you know, it was just like this. I just was obsessed with it. And I used to just make these, like, you know, action explosion, sound effects for like, that was my mom's nickname for me. It was Tush-Tush. Tush, just because you were your own effects guy. Yeah, I was my sound guy.

I was there, yeah. Everything. Wrote the theme tune. Okay. Yeah. What was the vibe in your house growing up? What did your parents do for living? Were they artistically inclined or?

They weren't overly artistic in that sense, but a lot of my early memories of my mom would be sat down in front of the TV watching VHS cassettes of Bollywood films or of Pakistani TV that had been sent across from Pakistan. My dad was away a lot. He was in shipping. My mom was a homemaker and she was a carer for her sister. and she lost her mom young

so she was kind of like the eldest sibling holding a lot of different things together at the same time without my dad around as much as he would have liked to have been as well he was working on ships and stuff in different countries and I just remember like sitting in her lap watching these Pakistani comedy sketch shows

soap operas, pop music videos, Bollywood films and the Bob Marley legend VHS tape with all the music videos on there Yeah. Like one of the earliest music videos I remember is Buffalo Soldier. And, and yeah, it was just, so it was the TV and the music and the film and the comedy and the drama. They were all mixed together always, you know, on whatever VHS cassette had just been sent over from Pakistan or whatever.

Or someone had gone there and visited and brought it back. That was like a happy place, you know. That was a happy place for my mom and, you know, me and her at home, you know, when my older siblings were at home. at school. So it was kind of present in the house, even though they weren't performers themselves. But you know, it's interesting. I say that like sometimes there's this trope that kind of like immigrant families are like often not artistically inclined or kind of dissuade the kids from doing that because it's unstable or whatever. But culture takes many forms. And like we're steeped in culture, obviously from our food to the fashion, to the clothes, to the music, to the religious

songs, to the, you know, so like culture was in the house. We brought so much culture with us as an family, even if it wasn't kind of turned into art in an overt way. What was the cool kid item that you always wanted in your household that you never got to have? Do you remember Mask? Mask. Mask. The movie.

Mask. Mask. Yeah, it was like an animated. Yeah. Nah, not Jim Carrey. There was an animated. There was an animated. animated action kind of cartoon called Mask.

Okay. It was like sensual, you know, that kind of thing. And it was one of them toys. It was just like, it was like a car that fired plastic discs or whatever, you know. I just loved that. It was kind of like a Knight Rider ripoff, really. Okay. Wanted that or the Robocop truck.

I never got the Robocop truck. Never got that. I probably watched a lot of violent films too young, to be honest. If I think about it, I remember my uncle's just showing me nightmare on Elm Street. when I was like six years old. And I'm watching like Robocop like too young, you know, and Robocop 2. And so I just wanted the Robocop toys, but I never got them.

You want to know something now that Nightmare on Elm Street just had its 40th anniversary like maybe a year or two ago, I went to watch it for the very first time in a movie theater. And I'm so shocked because I don't know if this is general knowledge. I avoided seeing those things because I thought like I don't like bludgeon films or anything. Nightmare on Elm Street, you literally see no act of violence. Like I didn't realize that at no point does he ever stab someone or whatever. Like he'll grab someone from behind a curtain, you'll hear screaming or whatever.

But I just realized that the genius of that whole thing is that all the violence we think happens is inside our heads. Like besides the suspense music, I'd never. knew that, at least for the first one. I've not watched the other one. So, you know, as far as I know, he was on a stabbing mission, but I didn't realize. Yeah, and I also remember just being so terrified of it. This day, I can't watch horror movies. It was like, yeah, my uncles would like be renting these movies and the movie babysitters and they just put a nightmare on Elm Street on one after another. I'm still kind of like remember some crazy like images, but you're right. It was more like images and the imagination and the sound and the suspense. It was. It was, you're

It wasn't like people having their heads car. Right. Even the Johnny Depp scene with the blood. Like, there's just blood splattering everywhere, but at no point does he get stabbed. And halfway through the film, I was like, yo, this is no violence. We were disappointed by that? Or is it like, what did you think? Actually, it's kind of like a masterclass thing.

When I left, I was just jaw dropped that like, wow. There is no. And I only noticed this only because Tarantino, I told him a story about, you know, of our dogs or whatever and he's like no correction you never see the ear getting sliced off and he's like I turn the camera away you hear it but you never see it and I was like oh I never knew that but yeah I but still yeah it's you pine away that's even scarier to me who's the one person in your life that keeps you in check no matter what that grounds you I mean I feel like Most of my family do that, you know.

I mean, it's good and important to have people in your life who do not give two shits about your quote, unquote, success. Right. You know, who are just like there to like have the same relationship with you before you started doing, you know, anything or any note and kind of anchor you in that, you know. I remember when we won an Oscar for Best Short Film. I remember my cousin's group chat. someone was like, yo, you know, congratulations, Rizwan Pai for winning.

And one of my cousins was just like really not up on that kind of stuff was like, oh, okay, cool. Is that like a big deal? Is that like when I won regional employee of the month? They know, yo. Correction. This actually wasn't when I won. This is when I got nominated for Sound of Metal.

And they said, is that like when I got, when I won regional employee of the month? And then just before I can respond, another cousin came in and said, nah, it's different because you actually won that. Oh, oh.

So you need people to check you in that way and keep, you know, it's important. And, you know, I don't want to be surrounded by like sycophants and like transactional relationships. I'm kind of,

most of my friends kind of predate any of that or any of this. So. Right. Yeah. I've visited or at least performed at the Oxford campus twice, but I've always wanted to get a different perspective on it. So as a person of color, what was the reality like of being in an environment such as Oxford? I felt like a fish out of water, really. Yeah, on a cultural point of view, but also on a class point of view.

Because actually you have different people of color there from like different countries that you've got the kids. of princes and kings and dignitaries and the 0.001% of Pakistan or Nigeria or whatever, they're there as well. But in terms of like black British, Pakistani British, particularly in that time, it's like 20 something,

you know, 20 years ago, 25 years ago, I definitely felt like an outsider. And in many ways it was a great kind of lesson for me for like the training ground for going into the film industry where like, okay,

your difference is, also something that can, I don't know, that can empower you. I remember basically at Oxford, I had been kind of like emceeing at raves and on pirate radio stations and stuff in London. And the whole kind of grime scene was just exploding. Dizzy Rascal was coming up. BBC Radio had just launched music station, Radio One Extra. And there was this whole, there was this all this energy around this kind of boom of UK rap and UK sound system culture going mainstream. And I was, I was, I felt missing out on it. So I said, you know what? That doesn't existed in Oxford, let me try and start some of that. And so I started a club night that was

like hip-pop and drum and bass. And every week I was there on stage, you know, hosting and emceeing of a drum and bass and stuff and got to like hone my craft. And it was a kind of reminder in a way that if you feel like you don't belong in a place, you can kind of like try and, I don't know, stretch the parameters of that environment, you know, to make space for you and others like you. That actually, that space might be hungry for that. It might just need you to stick around in it rather than just be like, I don't belong here and leaving.

So it was, I think it was a gift and a curse in many ways. It was lonely at times. It was challenging. It was a lot of friction around like just be existing there, I felt. But it also drove me to kind of like, kind of, yeah, create a space for myself and people like me. And in many ways, I kind of continue trying to do that in the film. business.

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Listen on TSN Radio. Join the globe. On the road to the July 19th final. 2026 FIFA World Cup. Stream it all live on TSN Radio. Available. I-Hard Radio. What was the first album that you purchased yourself?

I remember purchasing cassettes of singles. Okay. More than albums. Does that count? Yeah. Do you definitely want an album? Well, no, no. What's your own money?

Like, what's the first single you purchased with you? I remember, was it, Jade, don't walk away? Yeah. Do you remember that? Of course. Yeah, I remember that. And then also it was, actually, your first album might have been a Prince album.

It's Diamies and Pearls. Was that an album? Was it a single? 91. Diamies and Pearls, the album. I think it might have been that. And to be honest, I think I just,

it was like, I was in Woolworths or whatever, and it was just like on sale. And I like the cover. You know, I love my own power. I was like, it was cool. But Jade was like intentional.

I bought the cassette. I like accidentally put myself on to Prince. It was just like in the like bargain bucket or whatever. I put that and paid um I had albums that I had albums that I very much like kind of loved but they would be gifted to me and that was Michael Jackson. That was Michael Jackson bad.

Okay. That was the one that I was just like they kept rinsing it. But I didn't buy that with my own money. Yeah. I got it. Do you remember what yours was? I mean, look. For years, I've lied to the press and said like it was a Jackson 5 record, but my first gifted record.

Yeah, my mind was, I liked Neil Sedaka's bad blood because I like the way that the logo looked spinning on the 45. This is me. It's not meat, blind, diamonds and pearls when I just thought. That's cool. I like the colors. Little purple and Chinese. For me, I'll say that the first 10 years of record collecting, like, was just based on if I like the way that the print of the logo looked on the turntable. And thus, I didn't like Capitol Records.

So I was not into the Beatles until, actually, until I moved to London. Then I got into the Beatles. But, yeah, like. Wow. We're just buying books on the cover. I grew, yeah. Well, yeah, I judge. I judge books.

based on exactly. It's funny to say that because one of my favorite films, Edgar writes, Sean of the Dead, is a brilliant prince joke where I guess they're trying to fight off zombies and they've ran out of weapons so now they have to use records. And they're going through the entire alphabet and they get to the letter P and the guy's like, I can't waste my prince records. And then even as their lives are on the line, they're like, judging Prince albums like, well, this album was shit. So let's use the Batman album. Like, so hearing.

Oh, the Batman album. The Batman album was at a special place in my heart because I was a kid when that came out. I, what do you feel about that album? I loved it, man. You know what? It was so weird and cool and, like, had this weird, like, acid kind of situation going on in it. And I just remember the hype around that Batman film coming out as a kid. And you just feel like the biggest deal ever.

I'm like, that, but dance, you know, it just, it was special to me at the time. As a long, like long time

Prince fans kind of say that that's the beginning of the end, but I see that as a necessary album for him to have a longer career.

Like Purple Rain sustained him for the 80s, but then he needed another platform album to sustain him for another decade. So from a term of effectiveness, I'll let it go.

But as a knowing what Prince is capable of and his canon, we were kind of indifferent on it at the time. But I loved it only because the day after I graduated high school, my dad let me, my dad was a world famous

like music bin shopper. So basically that was like the last time he let me just go ape, ape shit inside of a record store. and buy whatever I wanted because I graduated at high school. And so that album came out that day. So I still have like fond memories of that album, even though it's not in my top five Prince albums of all time.

But, you know. It just had a special place of my heart because of the memories, you know? Yeah. I can see that. What was the very first live show that you attended? Wow. That's a good, you know, I don't know if it was like the very first one that I attended, but it was I mean the earliest ones I attended would have been like some Pakistani pop kind of bands and like

Bollywood there were a lot of like touring Bollywood shows so I grew up in Wembley and so close to the arena and stuff like that and so back in those days how a lot of the Bollywood stars would make money is they would go on world tours where they would perform the songs from the hit the hit songs from the hit films right so you had actors like on Slaman Khan whatever these guys would come to London and like do song and dance kind of things. And I remember those for sure and going to like Pakistani pop things like vital signs and Janun and these kind of bands, you know, like 90s like pop and rock bands from Pakistan

that would come and play like Wembley Conference Center or whatever. Like you know, the whole community would show up. It was like it was a vibe. But really the first thing I thought, so I saw those technically before, but the answer that came to my mind is the one of the most impactful was I think the 10 year anniversary of Ninja Tune Records.

Okay. Yeah, Ninja Tune. Yeah. I think it was like a 10 year anniversary or something of that. And I went to that and Kid Kowala was playing. Oh.

Yeah, and I bumped into Talvin Singh over there. And Talvin Singh, who's like, you know, incredible like tabla electronic fusion kind of artist from, you know, a big part of that South Asian 90s kind of wave of music, him and Nitt and Sony and people like that, Asian Dub Foundation.

I remember there was a cipher of teenagers that we were like freestyling on the staircase. Right? And I remember Talvin Singh, like, we stood there watching. Really? He saw me and he like, yeah, and he like complimented me.

And I remember just feeling so gasped and I'm just so encouraged. Like that sustained me for five years, you know? That was like Talvin Singh thought I was doing something, you know, and he was like, a cool guy in the undergrad at that point and everything. Have you ever circle back and seen him since, or? You know, we connected once like many, many years later, but not really, not particularly. Yeah, I don't know. If he's listening, you know, shout out Talvin Singh. It's like a real innovator. There you go. Shout out to Talvin Singh. Who are your North

star, well, I would ask for five. Who are your five North Star emcees? Just emcees? Well, I meant for you, I'd... Yeah, yeah, okay. Just as a lyricist, like, who are your North Stars? I feel like it's changed a lot. I feel like before, I was just all about kind of lyricism, and, you know, as a teenager, I was just all about kind of common and most F. and Tali Lip Kali and the whole raucous kind of camp and all of those guys. And to this day, I think most deaf is up there for me. But I think it's changed now because it's more about the range and the versatility of these artists.

And that kind of big bench genre. That's really interesting to me now. So whereas I would never have said this before, I think now one of them is probably Mike Skinner from the streets. The streets. You know what I mean? Yes. Yeah.

I would say Mike Skinner is up there. I would say MIA is up there. You know, I'm interested more now more than ever than genre bending. I guess you could call them emcees who are kind of like bending the form to their style. But I still say most deaf. I mean, you know, honestly, I'm just a huge, huge Kendrick fan. Again, because of the range of what he does and how he bends the form as well. And I think, I don't know, someone who I just really, really love and rate that's like kind of more contemporary

So right now is Jay Huss at the UK. So yeah, that's not necessarily my all-time top five, but off the top of my head, I mean, I think those are some MCs. I'm just always kind of think. They're just themselves. Do you know what I mean?

I think that's the thing that I rate more than anything now is someone who sounds like no one else, someone who's like, that could only be averse by them. You know, it's just immediately distinctive in that way. And the way the ODB was, I think more than anything, I'm inspired by people who are unapologetically themselves

and doing something different. Whereas before, it was all about just lyricism. And I was the N.M. junkie. Yeah, just all just like technical craft. You know what I mean? That's why it was a big, name junkie. I think it's a different skill to be like purely yourself. Yourself?

Yourself? To like fuck this. Yeah. I feel you. For you, what was the... Can I just pause for Zerkin and say, I'm talking to Questlove. I can't move on from that question without asking you the same question.

Me? I really, have you got an all-time top five? Well, you just reminded me. I totally forgot when, like, my period in London was between like 93 and I think we gave up our flat, 97, 98 in Kenishtown. And but coming back, I definitely remembered, I think we did some shows with the streets. you reminded me how much I used to listen to his first record, his first few records. I like weird emcees, you know, like I dig. And I'll chance, yeah, of course, like I know that I have a world-class athlete in my own band,

which I think because Tarika is so technically proficient as an emcee, I'll tend to champion those that might not ever wind up on anyone's, like, top 10 list, even though I think, you know, I still early Cool Keefe. Edon, Cool Keefe, Paul Barman, Pasta Nuce of De La Sol, you know, of course, like Doom, like just anyone that's like super weird. Like that's who I'll tend to, right now I'm going through like my doom phase again. So I'll go through stages. But you know what's really interesting about Doom is that he's right in the middle of that Venn diagram of weird emcees and like technical masters that like just really

headsy, lyrically oriented fans would always also turn to. It's interesting, you know, I can't move on without talking about Black Thought for a minute because I think in that period when I was most just like purely listening to rap, I think, you know, it would have been most. It would have been Black Thought. And I actually got to tell you that that Things Fall Apart album was just a life-changing album for me, man. It was life-changing on so many levels.

Why, thank you. In particular, like, yeah, just. define a certain period of time in my life and and I tell you something that I was just really gassed off and so many people in London were so gassed off is I'm sure you've heard this the drum and bass lick at the end the drum and bass break the end of yeah yeah worry about me you know yeah and so at the end when it just drops in the drama and it only does it for like 20 seconds or whatever but I just felt I don't know you know that was like mid-90s right so it's like the heyday of jungle and drum and bass, I'm going to this.

And it just brought it together in a way that was just, I don't know, man. It just felt like, I felt seen. I feel like it made that track even more beloved in the UK that it just went into that double-time drum and bass thing at the end of that track. But yeah, I mean, that's probably one of the first. That and I think the mystery of chess boxing were the first two things that I like learned off by heart. You know what I mean?

Yeah. You know, my, I've told the story before of, um, You know, I was fortunate enough to kind of be there at the very beginning of when, like, jungleses and drum and bass were, like, starting to be a thing. And when we decided to move to London, for real, for real, the first thing we did was we went to a nightclub. And they started playing Anita Baker. And we were, like, laughing at London, like, oh, my God, why are they listening to, like, slow jams? Why are they playing sweet love in the nightclub? And then when that hook came in,

yo, I was scared from my, like, we, I wish there. Why did you guys meet to London? Why did you meet to London? You guys just wanted to change it. It's taking some new influences. You know, it's weird. Okay, so we had spent two years in this massive bidding war. We got the record deal of our dreams.

And then the album was finished. And then we realized that the label, not only did the label who just started a black division, we were on Geffen Records, that they weren't prepared to really promote us. But then on top of that, you know, 93 was kind of like a shifting year for creativity and black music, of which we got by because suddenly it was a novelty being a band.

Like we were one of last, when we first got signed, I think seven black bands still had a record deal. Whereas, you know, in the 70s, There were thousands, you know what I mean? So we just decided the very last minute, we have to do what Jimmy Hendricks did. So the second we finished our album, we met Jiles Peterson, we booked a week at the jazz cafe. And then with the money we made from that, we just got a flat in Kenishtown and just never came back home. We decided to make London our hub.

and then we just worked Europe literally for four years and eventually the label was like all right you guys got to come back home and like be for real so for things fall apart we finally came back to America but for the most part

I don't think we would have made a dent had we just relied on whatever buzz we were going to get in America like we felt we had to go to London to the world and then come back home newly improved and you know yeah that's beautiful i love that i love that yeah and and it's so it's so kind of amazing to see more that cross-pollination between you know music coming out of london and the uk and the u.s and seeing the moment that the uk rap is also happening as well over there

just out of interest would you say you got me is still like the most played and like beloved yeah that's that's our most popular and i literally did it like when we left London and you know came back home to start recording I knew like the last project I worked on that was like London base I did some with Ronnie size and you know I was just like yo man I want to I want to do something that you know gives us a tip of the hat or not to where we came from like I thought jungle was going to be like the biggest thing ever So I was just like, I want to come out the gate before like America catches on. And America didn't.

However, I do believe now that we're flirting with like Jersey House, especially where like where little Uzi Verde is going and like these artists that are using Jersey House music and the speed of it, I think maybe now we might be ready for it because at least where we are as far as where the country is, even though we're trying to remain zen and calm through this ordeal that we're going through, I almost feel as though the soundtrack to jungleist is like this is the time to unleash it,

like that feeling of urgency in the air. So yeah, man, I just wanted to do it just as a tip of the hat to the place where we came from. I know I ran that deep. I thought maybe you guys were just playing around with different drum brakes, but it's so beautiful to know that it came from being steeped in that and around that.

Yeah, I mean, jungle music is like, you know, a very particular, very UK thing. And I think it caught on a lot more in Canada and Toronto in particular because the kind of Caribbean kind of connection. And so obviously so much of UK black music comes out of that connection to like dancer and Caribbean music and how that blends with like electronic music. But of course, it's always been that bridge. Like if you think of garage, garage came out of like what's called garage because the Paradise Garage, right?

and it was like U.S. H&G, as the exclusive to H&G was house and garage. That was American stuff. And then you had two-step carriage, which was called UK garage, right? And then that was just, you know, slightly different. But to this day, I would say that Gabriel, the Roy Davis Jr. Pevin Everett song is, at least for my generation, a lot of people's number one track, you know, all time. Like that's the kind of redemption song or whatever of garage heads. Do you know what I mean?

is it's a US track is Roy Davis Jr. and Pevin Everett. So, yeah, I'm glad to see that kind of like that dance floor kind of cross-pollination more. It's funny you mention him because one of my favorite songs of his that I spend is there's a jazzy tune that he did call It You Get Me, which it's more of a two-step production.

But yeah, that's a song that I think is fallen under people's radar. And I feel as though that song's waiting to be discovered. So is this a Roy Davis Jr.'s track or a Peven Everett track? Peven Everett. Yeah. You got, yeah. Yeah, he's kind of like, he's so incredible and so talented.

And from what I understand, it's like, you know, there was like a whole crazy backstory around that track. And yeah. I got to talk to him one day and find out about him. I finally connected with him, like, thing. like two or three years ago, finally got to meet him and give him his flowers. Listen. And you're there for heart-wrenching knockouts.

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2026 FIFA World Cup. Stream it all live on TSN Radio, available on IHeard Radio. I always wanted to note, so what is the one lesson in life that you had to learn the hard way? So many, man, but I think, I think, like, I'm trying to find a way of saying this that doesn't sound super basic. But I'm going to say it. Just come with it. it's about kind of like not of like just just just just not the power of not performing and what I mean by that is I grew up code switching a lot you know I grew up in a certain

kind of that was not privileged but you know it was it wasn't like crazy intense or violent or anything which just was not privileged and I've got a government scholarship to a private school there was like this class code switch. I came from an immigrant Pakistani background and household. I was in Britain and there was that code switching. And it was the 90s of he said and it was like this explosion of South Asian British culture and garage and drum and bass. And there was that.

And I had all these different identities. And I feel like for so much of my life, I had been code switching. So much so that when I was starting out both as a professional actor and MC, I was really eager to keep those two things different, just kind of some kind of, just like instinct and compartmentalizing I would do. And I think I feel like I'm almost making up for lost time now of just really bringing together

those supposedly contradictory parts of myself in the things that I'm making and bringing together the music with the film bringing together the just those unapologetic sides that I would sometimes instinctively like edit and it sounds like a kind of pretty basic lesson to learn but even when I thought I was being unapologetically myself I was still kind of like shifting gears instinctively

you know and i want to kind of like come into the room with all of my mess and just be like yeah this is my mess this is it this is all of it and i think that's something that um has just helped me feel more um calm and in touch with who i am you know got yeah so like with a show like bait that we made you know bringing a soundtrack together around that and and and having tracks on that myself and bringing some of my favorite artists from around the world into that or with the long goodbye, the short film, you know, just kind of blending almost like soliloquies and spoken word with like that action thriller kind of film language and just trying to kind of put it all in one pot and I think that's what I like, you know, I have that kind of eclectic taste and I have

those different sides of myself and I want to kind of express it all and not kind of whole different parts of myself back. Yeah, so you have to build your own platform so that you can express all the facets of yourself. Thank you. Very succinctly put, yeah. It's understandable. You once said that you'd rather be broke than to be typecast. Now, looking back, what was the hardest, what was the hardest know you had ever had to say?

And, you know, I know how integrity and personal. code is to manage in an industry in which, you know, minorities are constantly having to jump hurdles and code switch. But like for you, what was one of the nose that you had to give that would have been like either lucrative for you or? I mean, I, I guess I'm just wondering if I should say it. But like there's, you know, I mean, I don't say that. Oh, yeah, I pass the thing.

You don't have to say the movie or whatever. I mean. Yeah, I mean, when I came off the back of the night of, I got offered a big lead role in a big TV series on Netflix, playing a lead role. It was like an action-y kind of thriller thing. And it went on to be a huge, huge, huge hit. And it was very successful.

You know, I think it probably would have done a lot for me, kind of straight off the night of into something like that and and couldn't do it. It wasn't even so much about the role that I was playing in terms of typecasting. It was definitely for me kind of like would have been a great look. It was just the basic storyline was about terrorism and it was very stereotypical and it's portrayal of Muslim characters. And even if I would get to transcend that stereotype and I would get to play that, you know, just kind of like lead guy role and be unshackled.

by that. I saw what it was doing to everyone else around me and the story and I just do it. And sometimes I kind of look back and it's like, man, that would have, you know, that would have been a great look. But if you, the overall arc of my journey, I'm very pleased that I didn't do it. Because to me, like having a career is not an end in itself, like telling stories. It's kind of not an end in itself. It's about what you're saying with it. It's about how you're trying to push culture and trying challenge people, challenge yourself, you know, and like falling back on some of the lazy narratives for me is, is like, that's the opposite of what I want to be doing with my time. Are you given agency to have a conversation with the screenwriter or the director

or the producer that, look, I'd like to adjust some things in this character or give him more of a soul? Yeah, of course, I've done that loads, but I mean, I just think, like sometimes it's baked into the story. You're not going to change a thing. Do you know what I mean? If it's, that is, it's not like icing on the cake. It is the cake sometimes. Got it.

So, Bait is a series that draws some parallels, frankly, that we're living in right now as far as like, you know, xenophobia and anti-immigration views. But when did the idea start to crystallize as far as you developing this? Well, it crystallized quite late on, but I'd been scribbling down kind of ideas and anecdotes for about, since about 2014. Okay. Basically what started happening, it started to become more well-known in America. And kind of there was this widening gap between my public and private self.

You know, it's like, I don't know, the same week that it got announced I was in Star Wars was the same week I got banned from my local Tesco supermarket for suspected shoplifting. Just because I was like wearing bizarre clothes. my washing machine had broken. I was dragging around a massive laundry bag full of dirty clothes. They thought, like, who is this guy? Is he like unhoused?

Like, you know, whatever. It was the whole thing was just, it was just like, you know, people think as soon as, people think you're going to be on a yacht with hand solo. But it's like, you still go to your laundry, washing machine still breaks.

You're still human. Well, yeah. And so that gap between your public and private self started creating more stressful and kind of slightly hilarious situations. And I just kept starting making a note of them. And I knew I wanted to make, something about that.

And someone once told me that gap between your public and private self is how much shame you carry. Right. And I knew I wanted to make a kind of subversive comedy within that playground of shame. And so I started drawing from all these very, very specific and personal things and so many things in the show. I mean, I remember, in the end of you, you're talking about Kennechtown, right? At the end of episode one, my character has a panic.

attack at Kenningtown Forum. Okay. That happened to me when I was booed off stage supporting Wu-Tang Clan. What? Yeah, yeah. Wutang were like two and a half hours late. So when someone finally came out on stage, you know, I came out and was like, yeah, that's not method, man.

Oh, you got. Oh, no. That's unfortunate. Yeah. But I stayed, I stayed the course and just did an a cappella. And I knew there would be kind of a more lyrically oriented crowd. And, you know, the booze turned to cheers. Short set I've ever done two minutes.

Turn the booze around to some cheers. And got out of it. Thank you very much. That was me. Yeah, two minute, acabella. Thank you. And so there's so many things like, you know, my character gets jumped as a kid in a park in Wembley. That was the park behind my parents' house.

You know, it's a sweet shop they go to to get sweets on Eve. We'd go there. Like, even being approached by MI5 to spy for them, that's happened to me like three times since I've become an actor. I was going to ask you because you mentioned that, have you, ever unfortunately had to name drop who you are in terms of getting out of a situation that if you weren't who you were, it would have gone downhill? This is what I'm talking about is the opposite. They approached me because I was an actor that was increasingly well known when the security

services were approaching me. They were like, you're an actor with a profile. You're must. Can you, can you spy for us? Can we talk to you? Can you help us with message? And I just kind of shut the door to that, you know. But that's why it's depicted in the show.

Right. This happens to be several times. But what in terms of name dropping, I'm not, it wasn't that, but I had a weird thing happen that she once at the airport in America. It was in Canada. Canadian border. Next to Heathrow, yes.

They're the most intense. Heathrow and Canada. Are, but I tell you what else is? Canada is intense and Miami is intense. Miami. The Cuban staff there who were like super like, you know,

Patriot, like there's a whole thing there. Yeah. Let's ask backwards. I went to this thing where I was getting pulled aside in Canada or something and they were keeping it for a long time. And this guy called me up and he goes, finally after ages waiting and being rude, he goes, I need to talk to someone.

And I took the phone from him and it was a woman and she goes, can I tell you at home, we have a lightsaber pizza cutter. Oh my God. Such fans. What? I was like, okay. And he took the phone back and he goes, it's my wife.

And I was like, okay. And he starts nodding and filling in the paper. I goes, okay, now you've done that and performed for me in some way. Like, you can bounce. And then I go, it's your wife. Yeah. He goes, yeah. She's over there.

And he points down the desk and like five kiosks down. It's his wife. It's also a Border Patrol person to the desk. I was like, this is so surreal. So it probably did help. It got me out of some situations. And I didn't get stopped as much after that. But it was like a decade where coming to the U.S. was like three and a half hours, you know.

I apologize. Trust me. It got different. Once I turned 45 and suddenly people my age were the Border Patrol people. But even then, I know. knew I had to look like Questlove, so I had to wear a Lego heart and have my Afro pick out. And, you know, and... You start performing your public itself, yeah.

It's because what bait is about, really. It's about that, you know. Yeah. Trying to see what people expect you to be. You made this for me. You're wearing like a shirt. So let me ask. So Shakespeare has been a passion of yours since your teens.

And this year, you're in Hamlet. So what about the classics, especially? for this one, attracted you to this role and in this particular interpretation of it? Like, what was the journey that it took to get here? You know, it was a long journey, as you said, like, when I was a teenager, I felt like Shakespeare was the exact thing that I was epitomized everything that I was on the outside of, right? It's like this stuffy British establishment thing. And I had an amazing teacher, a white Jewish Jewish.

guy from Wolverhampton who happened to speak fluent Punjabi he took me under his wing he gave me the play he said you feel like an outsider well actually sort of the characters the heart of these plays or this guy Hamlet you know it's the most famous most revered Shakespeare plays the heart of all this stuffiness you feel that doesn't belong to you check it out he feels that you feel and like so many teenagers and so many people of all ages around the world like I saw what this guy's feeling and I think it's actually how a lot of us are feeling right now which is Like, is the world going crazy or have I lost my mind? You know, that's the central kind of thread in a way in Hamlet.

And that feeling is something I latched onto and I've felt to different degrees throughout my life. And I think we all feel that way right now. And so I just really connected with it emotionally. I connected connected with the language, the rhythm, the flow, the percussion of it. It reminded me of rap music in that way. But also a thing that really kind of struck me was that. that this quintessentially British play felt like this is the brownest thing I've ever read.

This is like growing up in Wembley. This is about family due to honor, love, kind of being, you know, who you can and can't marry, being a family decision, you know, spirits in the afterlife, feeling like they're part of people's lived experience. It just felt like very, very relatable to me coming from an immigrant community. a lot of these old classic feel more relevant and more real almost set in some of these kind of cultures now so yeah all of those things kind of blew me away

and it changed how I saw myself in relation to the culture and I thought I wanted to I want to make a film of Hamlet like when I was 17 I remember thinking that I was like I want to you know yeah kind of blow it open and create a version that like a lot of people can see themselves in Got it. Right now, what is your relationship with making music? I just put out a track two days ago. It was my first track in about four and a half years. Okay.

It's with Cass is dead. Do you know Cass, the UK rapper? I've heard, but not overly familiar. He's amazing, man. You've got to check his stuff out. He's like a cult kind of figure in the UK. So, yeah, we've got the bait as a soundtrack, and I've got a couple of tracks on there. So I exec produced the soundtrack, Georgia Smith. is doing the lead song on it. Ah, damn. I'm sure you know.

Of course. Yeah. Because it's a Bond themed TV show, right? So we needed a Bond song. So Georgia is doing our Bond song. It's a timeless, full-blown bond song. It's like incredible. She's doing her Shirley Bassy thing?

She's doing that full-blown, yeah. Nice. And so I just dropped this track with Cass is dead. We Good. It's just dropped two days ago, and that's also on the bait soundtrack. Okay. My second of the last is, how has fatherhood changed you?

it's made me a lot more tired just look on your face right now tell me you know how it's made me bro like uh I mean you just you just have less time to like fuck around with stuff

so you can't be bothered to do or out but you just don't have the time you just start straight back to the essentials that what do you really care about who do you really care about it's just that you know and if you're going to kill yourself making a TV show over like 10 years or a movie over 15 years,

you better really care about it. And that's what I'm proud to say, like these two things that are out at the same time, they're very different, but I'm deeply passionate about what they have to say and putting them out there in the world. And yeah, I hope people can feel that when they experience it.

Well, my final question is food related, though. What is your local food heaven destination spot? Local food heaven destination spot. Yes. I'm going to shout at Nidu's Grill. Nidus is classic East London curry house, and it features heavily in episode four of bait. Every episode of bait is almost takes place in the different genre.

And episode four is like Richard Linkley, a walk-and-talk. And it's a walk-and-talk through immigrant East London, rather than like touristic Paris, right? And so it starts in Nidu's Group. And it's in Nidus, and it's just banging biryani and Halim and Nihari. and my mouth is watering even talking about it. But yeah, shout out nidu's, man. It's one of my faves.

Well, Riz, I thank you for doing this. I appreciate your artistry, man. And, you know, hopefully we can have a longer conversation about your, because I have a billion questions about Sound of Metal. But I really admire you as everything that you've done in music and in film and your artistry, man. Thank you so much, brother. But likewise, man, you know, your music and what you've created has been a, has inspired me for years and years, man.

And what you're doing now is doing the same thing. So thank you, bro. Appreciate it. Res Ahmed on the Questlove show. And we'll see you guys next go around. Thank you. Questlove show is hosted by me, Amir Questlove Thompson. Executive producers are Sean G.

Brian Calhoun and me. Produced by Brittany Benjamin and Jake Payne. Produced for IHeart by Noel Brown. Edited by Alex Conroy. IHeart video support by Mark Canton. Logos, graphics, and animation by Nick Paloi. Additional support by Lance Cole. Special thanks to Kathy Braun.

Special thanks to Sugar Steve Mandel. Please subscribe, rate for view, and share the Questlove show wherever you stream your podcast. Make sure you follow us on socials. That's at QLS. Check out hundreds and hundreds of QLS episodes, including the Questlove Supreme shows in our podcast archives. Questlove shows a production of I-Heart Radio.

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