The Questlove Show - Steve Rifkind Part 1

Episode Date: September 21, 2022

LOUD Records founder Steve Rifkind sits down with Questlove Supreme. He speaks about growing up in the music industry, being around James Brown and Frankie Crocker, plus his time managing New Edition. In Part 1, the veteran record executive also discusses signing Wu-Tang Clan, Twista, and Tha Alkaholiks, as well as his complex relationship with Tupac ShakurSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media.

Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clivert Show on the I-Hard Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode.

Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slical Life 12 and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends.

Trust me, babe, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. West Love Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. Ladies and gentlemen, another QLS is upon us. As I've always stated in previous shows, it is fun talking to the artist, but oftentimes, I find it more fun getting the 4-1-1, the information from a different perspective. And oftentimes, you know, promotion people, A&R people, CEOs kind of have a different perspective. And I guess, you know, maybe I'm secretly a suit more than I am an artist. So I think I enjoy those episodes better.

But even with the response we get from the podcast, it's often when we talk to label CEOs that I get the most feedback. So hopefully if you're like me, this episode should be worn for the record books and for a lot of you hip-hop junkies out there, you're in for a treat. When you hear cats my age speak of, okay, now the word, of course, of the year's Renaissance, and, you know, this isn't a Queen Bee reference. But when we're speaking of the Renaissance era of hip-hop, we're talking about a specific time period in which I will say the Renaissance era of hip hop versus the classic era of hip hop is sort of when the music palette, as far as sampling is concerned, extended a further reach past the first layer of sampling. You know, like the first round was like James Brown, George Clinton, and the, what I call the Wikipedia of crate digging known as Ultimate Beats and Breaks compilation. Shout out to Break B. Lou, good friend of the show. But all of a sudden, you know, all those jazz records and all those

boring albums in your uncle and aunt's record collection started to get utilized in this particular era of hip hop, starting with kind of in the early 90s and extending in the decade. And oftentimes, when we talk about the Renaissance period, usually Illmatic is kind of synonymous with that era. However, and yes, I will say Illmatic is the pinnacle of that particular sound, but from a creative standpoint, that the label owned by our guest today was probably one of the most forward-thinking, consistent envelope-pushing hip-hop labels that pretty much led the charge culturally

for the directions of what credible hip-hop sounded like in a way that kind of like Def Jam was established in the 80s. I had to write some of the names down. Twist a madcap. I could spend an hour of madcap alone. because I thought, oh, that's a lane for the roots. The alcoholics, of course, the Wu-Tang Clan, whoever they are, cellar dwellers, mob deep, big pun, exhibit.

One of my all-time favorites, and will we ever release the Project Pat song? I don't know. Project Pat. Delinquent habits. Dead prez, gangster boo, little flip, the executioners, even with R&B with Davina, LV, and Yvette, Michelle. Hey, Adriana Evans, son. Yeah, Adriana Evans.

Even like well-known vets like Pete Rock, beat nuts, MOP, 3-6 Mafia, Uncle Luke, Fumptaster Flex, Red Alert, all these greats came to basically the House of Loud, as I say. But it would be whom you also mentioned that our guests was very crucial also in the art of what we call street promotion, which I guess we take it for granted now, seeing snipes on the street. seeing raps on the vans and seeing stickers everywhere, but a lot of that revolution was started in the early 90s, and our guests had a very extreme impact in developing that. And not to mention, I have to say that it will be exciting to talk to kind of a lineage person in terms of the fact that, you know, his very father, you know, the great Jules Rifkin, who owned Spring Records, which, you know, home to Joe Simon and Millie Jackson and Fat Back, you know, His father released the very first hip-hop single ever,

which, of course, is King Tim the Third by Fat Back. You know that if the intro is 15 minutes long, I pray the show is nine hours long. Welcome, Steve Rifkin, I used to say, if you guys can see Steve Rifkin's face right now, but he is like, do I need to talk? This is the kind of show in which we're just finding out that we're on YouTube, or at least we haven't really pumped.

We're on the show. So should I now say that, ladies and gentlemen, I don't know if you know to this, but, you know, since what episode? What was our first? Taven Campbell was our first? It wasn't, no. We goes further back than that. Jake, what was the first?

Oh, geez, what was it? Maybe Monica Lynch? Jesus Christ, we put our case. So, yeah, if you go on YouTube, you can actually watch these episodes, and I pray that you don't because we're a motley, Monash. Li is Glenn, but the rest of us, I don't know. Mr. Rifkin, how are you? I'm great. How are you guys?

I'm great. Happy you have you. I'm excited. I got to tell you a funny story. Wendy Goldstein signed up. I knew it. No, no. Don't even. I'm going to ask you about the story. Don't even start.

Go big. Go home. All right. Just go ahead. Go ahead. Sorry. I was like, wait, should I ask about the Wendy Goldstein story? So Wendy signed you, I mean, you guys, and she signed another artist. You know who that artist was, right? The Jizzin. Jizzin. So she calls me, because besides that, I had the Stephen Rifkin company, which had all the street team and the whole street marketing stuff.

So she goes, hey, Gephett is having a conference. Will you come and speak? And I'm like, about what? She goes about, you know, the marketing, you know, it's really a rock and roll label. and you know we just signed jizzer and we just signed actually i think she said she just signed you guys that day yeah she did and i'm like but i need to do like drive up me to Vegas i knew wendy but i really didn't know her that well i'm like do i really want to be in a car with her for five hours you know but the the amazing thing was i didn't even want to hear jizz's album all i heard dude you guys

had like a three or four song demo right and i i kept it on repeat for five fucking hours and then So we get there. My uncle owns to the restaurant. We have dinner at the restaurant. I go back to my room and I'm just a manned. I was like, this is some groundbreaking shit. And I must have lost, in those days, I must have lost like $1,500, which to me was like $50,000. You know, I was just starting out.

It was in 5 o'clock in the morning and I went to the crap table and just, I don't remember the name of the songs. But it motivated me and I ended up winning. $5,000 and I thought I won a million dollars, all because of the roots. So thank you. Oh, shit. All right, Steve Rifkin. Wait, I was, see, I was going to ask you, all right, so. So you would have signed them then? I'm sorry, I'm just going to ask them a fans perspective. No, I would have signed them. I never had the opportunity to sign. Right, if you had the opportunity, right, because they were already signed.

I will say that loud was one of the three labels that we didn't go to, only because literally, I mean, I've said the story before, you know, the roots were going to sign to Mercury, to Polygram. And we were like super excited. Oh, man, Black Sheep's going to be our label mates. Da-da-da-da-da. And they gave us the contract and three of the names were misspelled. So the contract was null in void because three names were misspelled. And they were like sending a new contract with our correct name spelled.

And in that 72-hour period, Wendy Goldstein literally came in swooped. down and you know like we did the audition for geffen because we wanted a free dinner you remember book binders on yeah yeah that's real nice fancy he's fancy yeah by that point we you know we were like impressed with like wow they have orange juice in the refrigerator like that's how impressed we were with that's the first thing like we went to windy goldstein's office and guess what she had Amir, she had orange juice in the refrigerator. All you can drink. And we're like, what? But literally, we were like, all right, we're going to do it for the free lobster and steak. And then we'll sign to Polygram. And just at the table, we literally were like, all right, let's call her bluff and just be like, all right, we need two cars and we need like three apartments. And we want a full studio. And da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. And a partridge and a pear tree. And she fucked around and called our bluff and it's like okay and getting money suddenly no other label mattered anymore because like it was like shit she's giving us everything we want so what mercury was going

to sign you canyatta bell oh wow yo the anger that he had for i always wanted to know what happened to was assistant that messed up that contract like he was near i'm not trying to be hyperbolic like you're suicidal but you know I've talked to Ed Eckstein since that moment and let's just say the building was not happy with losing the roots or on a technicality but so my my cousin was head of sales and this is when they had a sales department and they were right stars he was head of sales of mercury and I remember him um I didn't know that he was signing I didn't know that you were supposed to sign with him so right he's my older cousin and I really looked up to him so I was telling him that, you know, I had to do this, I had to speak in Vegas to this rock and roll

crowd, which, like, I mean, I was definitely talking a different language. And, um, and he goes, we were supposed to sign them. He didn't know, he didn't know exactly what happened, but he knew about you guys. I said, I said, man, then you guys fucked up. Oh, they were angry. They were angry. I want to skip, since we're talking this, and this is, this is the thing that I wanted to ask you because, you know, I know that, I mean, basically the first album and a half was made extremely like just, just unorthodox. We did not have a staff whatsoever at Geffen. All we had was Wendy Goldstein and like seven credit cards. And so, you know, we established trust with them where they were like, here, here the credit cards don't, you know, start traveling

to a ruper or whatever, like be responsible. We were super responsible. but essentially we were calling out for favors from almost every label you include it like you know Steve Rifkin will handle street promotions and da-da-da for at Def Jam like Jessica and Derek will handle that at Def Jam like we were literally moonlining every label for Do You Want More? And the thing was didn't even know you could do that I don't you know it was just different back then but here here's the question I have so can you and I want you to accept you. explained to me, because this is what I never got explained to me, at least the system. Like, you remember the periodical? I think that it was called hits.

It's magazine. Yeah, they're still it. So now it's online. It's still a thing. Yeah. Okay. So I knew for us, there was a system of you break in college first, and then after the college, then you break to mainstream radio. And the roots released their first single, the same, at least we were under the impression that we were. released the same time that Biggie released Juicy.

Now, this is what I think happened. What I believed happened was that the buzz for Juicy was so big that they leaked it a week early, maybe like two days early. So the initial numbers of our first single, which I think was like distortion of static versus Juicy was like, oh, we're going to crush Biggie. But what I think happened was we had a full week, seven days of ads on, whereas maybe like they decided to just, you know, leak juicy a day early. So it was like a week of the roots versus one day of Biggie. And we were just under the impression of like, oh, shit, man, we're going to be kings of the world.

Like we were like, that whole week it was like whatever the equivalent of light and cigars with $100 bills. champagne everywhere. Only for the next week to come. And suddenly, like, Biggie's numbers were, like, in the three digits. And we were, like, at 38, like, literally crushed. Can you explain the system of how, at least back then? And I'm not going to say start with protect your neck,

because that's just a whole other animal. But say if you're doing rainy days, like a single that doesn't matter. How do you break that first to, explode and what's the important of college numbers? So for me, I made my living off of college. So let's just go back to you for a second. Okay. Wendy was the only one who understood what I was.

I was working those records because I was doing the whole street team. Right, I know. I get it. Which you guys were so alternative in the hip-hop market. I said, just don't rush this. Let this just marinate and just have the guys live on the road. Don't worry about radio. Don't worry about anything.

having to just go visit colleges, and maybe even some mix shows. And that's it. I mean, I never really even saw you guys. I didn't even see a video yet. But just honestly, what I heard, I was like, remember like diggleable planets? Yeah.

Right? I mean, it was that, I mean, that took 18 months to break. What? We forget this. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. So, you know, and stretch,

and Bobito broke that record. You're right. That was on a new label called Pendulum Records that was owned by Ruby, Rodericus, yeah. Right? So, and I forget who the head of promotion. I think his name was Steve, too, and I just forget who the head of promotion was.

And I was like, you don't have to worry about radio. Let us just keep this at college radio. Brian Samson, who was running the Gavin Report at college radio, was flipping over the music. And that's all we needed right this second. And they just wanted to take it to radio, and then, you know, it was what it was. Now, of course, the second part of that story was like we were like super depressed and thought like our lives were over and, you know, but now that 30 years have passed, it's almost like, you know, this tortoise and the hair journey that we took was worth it all, you know, to kind of still be here. But for me, I just never, because we weren't in the States, you know, we were living in Europe. So between like 93 and 98, I had zero clear.

of what the system was on how to jump in the double dutch rope and thrive and survive like that sort of thing. And, you know, because we were asked like, can we do Jack the rapper? Can we do, how can I be down?

Like all those things that we hear about. And we just always felt like Rudolph the Red Dooms. Like, we didn't even start meeting hip hop gods. Like, you know, we didn't even meet Wu Tang until like 99 at that at that great day in Harlem shoot that was the that was the that was like the first ever did the convention circuit y'all never did gab and b r e like we were living in europe

just like our whole thing was like well you know we're not going to be breakout stars in the state so we better just like plan our seeds for longevity over here in europe and by things while apart they were like okay you guys got to come home and actually promote this record not like be there But anyway, I digress. I do want to start from the beginning. Steve Rifkin, what was your very first musical memory? My very first musical memory was, I was around five years old at the Apollo Theater of watching in Jackson Five.

Wow. Do you know what year this was? 67, 68. I might have been six. This is the third story we've had of people that have been at that particular Jackson's concert in? No, I was with my dad. I was with my dad. So my dad managed a DJ called Tommy Smalls. And Tommy had a club up in Harlem called Smalls Paradise. Smalls. These are real, Tommy Smalls from Harlem Knights? That's real? I never, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I got excited. So before Frankie Cracker, Tommy Smalls was the most powerful DJ in urban music or Army Music. Right. And it was a station called WWRL. And it was based out of Jersey. I saw the Jack and Five, you know, on the Ed Sullivan show, and then like two weeks later there at the Apollo. And it was my first live show on the scene. Oh, you had good seats. We didn't have seats. We were on the stage.

Of course. That's what I didn't want to assume. Okay. How old were you when you recognized what your dad did? Man. I have the feeling that he kind of lured you into the business early, or without knowing or trained you without knowing. It was my grandfather.

I was majorly dyslexic. I didn't know how to read or I was 14, 15 years old. Okay. So I was getting in a lot of trouble. And not that I need, you know, I didn't need to steal because I didn't need the money. My dad had James Brown, you know, and he had Joe Simon, fat, back band. So I was just doing it to look to get to attention. But it was really getting to a place where I was going to go to jail or get killed.

And my grandfather called me down to Florida. Well, all Jews go. And he was in the nightclub business. And he said, he said, he goes, you got to get your shit together. He goes, you're going to end up dead or in jail. And he goes, why don't you do what your cousin Randy did? My cousin who worked at home, I go, what did he do? Because he goes to visit radio stations.

I'm like, who am I going to do it for? He goes, your father. I go, my father wants something to do with me. He goes, and my father was partners with my uncle. And he goes, I'll deal with it. So like a week later, he calls the house. You know, there were no cell phones since his 1970, 1980. And he goes, pick me up at the airport at 4 o'clock.

So I go pick him up at the airport. I go, where are we going? I thought I was going back to my house because no, going into the city. We're going to go see your father and uncle. And they pretty much sit me down. They say, you're going to go on the road for three weeks, and you need to go visit radio stations. So I'm 18 years old.

And those three weeks turned to be close to three years, a little under three years, where I zigzagged all across the country. You know, I always had $10 worth of quarters. There were no cell phones. There was no GPS. I didn't even know how to read a map. I would just get a pay phone, put in 50 cents, and call the next station. How do I get there from here?

And I would write it down longhand. I wish I still had the book. Really? Yeah. So radio promotions. Yeah, there was no mixture there wasn't anything at the time. Just so I'm clear. Now, you know, when I mentioned Spring Records, which is, you know,

subsidiary of Polydor, was he, was your father promoting all Black acts on Polydor? Like, did this also include Mandrail and James Brown as well, or just strictly the Spring Acts like Millie Jackson, Joe Simon? So James, my dad brought Polygram into the States. Oh, so he gave James Brown his first offer. Yeah, so what happened was Polygram, I think the president's name was Erwin Steinberg. Yes.

He goes, he goes, give us James under the Polygram logo, but you'll eat the way it's your label, where it's still signed to you. So he would have been on spring records. He would have, but it was like Polygram's first urban artist. So, I mean, James performed up my bar mitzvah. What? You know, you can't skip that shit.

Wait, 13 was what year for you? What year were you born? I was born 62. It's February 1st, 1975. Ah, damn, you have mustache, James. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying.

Yep, that's me. Clever Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life. mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends.

I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends... Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no.

I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest, the director. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco,

joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make, to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, for wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and Tate.

TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Out of curiosity, do you know what, at least what negotiations were just in terms of him leaving King? I never knew how he went from King to Polygraph. I was eight. Okay. You know, probably so, you know, my dad was really a special guy. Like, he really, like, you know, he didn't see color.

You know, you mentioned Jack the rapper earlier, right? You know, so, and, you know, Jack, Jack started off in radio, and then he became, like, a promotion guy, you know, and Jack was really light-skinned, you know. Right. Yeah, almost, yeah, you could pass. And the hotels, you know, they wouldn't let black people sleep in certain hotels. And, you know, my dad would bring him into the hotel.

Wow. Did they know he was black, though, when he brought him in a hook? Because Jack could have went either way. So he just passed and, you know. But the thing was this, if they did, you know, there'd be too dead body. you know, and my father, you know, kept his guys. Right. You know, nobody was allowed to even go near the room.

Can I ask you, Steve? It's fascinating because you said, like, so your dad has been on this side of, when did he start getting into music in this lane, like in this R&B lane? Was it your grandfather? Because you said your grandfather was also a part of your process. So my grandfather on the club called the Boulevard.

So you had the Copa, which was like the highlight, you know, the major player. Yeah. But before you could even get a shot at the Copa, you had a kick-ass at the Boulevard. And the boulevard was in Queens, on Queens Boulevard. You know, so what happened was, you know, my grandfather was somebody that really didn't want to mess with.

You know, his three best friends were, you know, pretty powerful guys. Can you tell us some of the, uh, the, yeah, I was going to say, I'm always curious about the, the, I mean, the only person I know this era that had muscle that often our guest talks about is Mars Levy. Mars leading. Yeah. Mars had a lot of Muslims. But my grandfather was extremely close with Mars.

But my grandfather would put you in a headlock. It said my two sons have to manage it. Oh. So Flip Wilson came out of there. Lola Flanah came out of there. The Sherylis came out of there. I could call my mom and I could just, you know, find out a whole bunch of people. So everybody.

Yeah. According to you, what year did quote that level of business and the what I dubbed the the Starbucksification of it like I don't know if you remember the episode of Sopranos

when those guys saw the like the first Starbucks and they tried to go inside to shake them down and then realize like oh this is like a corporate thing this is not like just a local mom and pop thing and this is when they realize

that we just can't shake you down and do business like on our level like in your mind and mind you, I know that you entering hip hop, I don't know how as big as your label was, you didn't somehow fall into the crossfires of what was 92 to 98. I mean, they knew they couldn't do anything to me, right?

So you're talking about the East Coast, West Coast. Right. So, I mean, we had a pass, but I don't know if this is in L.A. and in the year. So we made it clear from the get-off. We're staying out of it. We're minding our own business. And if we're going to get touched, people are going to get touched back.

That's for all your roster too. Not just you, Steve, but like that was the roster. Everybody would know. Well, you know, so like when Pak was my roommate. I'm deep. Like I marketed Pock's first record when he was just signed to Enoscope directly. And he would stay with me. We would be on the road Thursday through Monday.

And even though he was living up in the bay, he would stay with me for those two days. because we had a shitload of work to do. So, you know, when that whole thing started, I'm walking into the house of blues and he's there, you know, and I got a bald head, you know, and he smacks me in the head, but, you know, and it stunk. So I don't know if it's a love tap or a real smack, right? And he looked at me and he looks at me, look, you're not going to say hello to me.

I'm like, man, I don't know where I stand with you. And he goes, tell those two little lens that I'm just doing this to keep myself relevant. I love their shit. Somehow I knew that. Somehow I knew. Yeah. And we hug. And, you know, like two weeks later, he was gone.

Oh, shit. All right, where's zigzagging back and forth? Wait, on that note, I do invite everybody to go to the tattoo pockets. Have you been to the exhibit, Steve, out in L.A., downtown? No, I haven't been there. It's beyond. All notebook pages, all everything. I just want to say it on that.

know you get to know your man. Yes, I've heard a lot about this. Beautiful. So for you, what do you consider really your true entry as far as like both feet on the ground? This is my entry into the music business. What marks that for you? Like what year, what project? So it was 1983 maybe. And, um, Was Jimmy Spiceyto Dahlville, y'all? Shit, that's right. That is on Spring. Yeah, it was Russell's first deal.

And then... Wait a minute. Is this the connection to... Is this how this makes it to Cream? No, they just did that. They just knew it? I'm not... I don't know if they knew it.

They just... When I heard, I was like, holy shit. I mean... But it was Jimmy Spicer and Fatback had a record called Spread Love. Yes. And then they had another one. But actually,

You mentioned the second singles. But there was a record on the album called This is Signed in the Future, featuring Jerry Bloodsoe. You mean, is this the future? Or? Is this the future? Yeah, it's just the future. Wait, that was you guys, too?

That was fat back. Yeah. So. Oh, shit. So they wanted me to meet this old promotion guy by the name of David Clark. And I'm 21 years old. that Dave Clark is in his late 60s. And he's like an old school promotion guy,

one of the best promotion guys ever in the history of promotion. And he closed me up. And he says, we're going to have dinner. It was a radio station called WHRK, which was in Memphis. We're going to dinner.

And I'm saying to myself, this guy's 66, 67 years old. And he wants me to go to the club with him afterwards. And I'm like, I'm not going to the club. So I find the college. So it was the University of Memphis. And I forget who the DJ was at that. But he takes me to the club.

And there's Dave Clark with four of the most beautiful women I've ever seen in my life. And I was like, motherfucker. And, but literally, that's how I ended up putting the whole street team together. I would, after going and visiting the program directors and music directors doing what I have to do, I started building my own network just at college radio. And that was always my foundation and my base. I'm sorry, I'm also just visualizing this in my head. And now this is, this is totally, this is making sense.

All right. Okay. Look, we've had radio people, CEOs on the show before. And, you know, I maybe dip my toe in the water with asking me. these questions. So I'm going to ask you under the guys that, yes, I'm certain that the statute of limitations or the grace period has passed. Now, a lot of the times when this question gets deflected, it's usually like, oh, it's so long ago. I don't even remember. Okay. Take that Jimmy Spicer record in 1983. You don't even have to specifically mention yourself. But if I am a

promotion guy trying to get that song played on the radio. What levels of negotiations do I have to stoop to to get that played on the radio? I mean, it really all depends how good a promotion guy you really are. All right. So how much, how much juice? What juice do you have to use? And again, whatever stories you can tell. So I'm going to tell you a story.

Thank you. Right. Frankie Cracker at WBOS. Yes. Right. Right. There was a club called the garage. Paradise Garage.

Paradise Garage. Best sound system in New York, right? Larry Levin. Larry was the DJ. The club opened up at 6.6.30 in the morning. Wait, what? Right? I mean, people, that's when people would leave,

whatever club, and then they would go to this club. You know, and it was a gay club, but with the best sound system. in the world. And Larry was such a trend set of DJing-wise. So I go, I go with Frankie one night. And, um, what's that like? Well, Frank, I've known Frankie since I was 11 years old. Like when Frankie came home after the payover scandal, I think my dad and a few other people, Maris leaving a few other people, threw him a party at Studio 54. Um, let's roll. And he goes upstairs to the DJ booth and he's there for around, anywhere between

30 or 45 minutes. So you know in those days, you know, the 12 inch, you know, a record would be 10 to 15 minutes long. So whatever Larry played, say between 630 and 7 o'clock in the morning, Frankie was going to add. So when I went back to following week, I was like, he's, he, I just put two and two together. So I would call Wendy Goldstein, say, hey, I can get the root record at it to BLS. Because I knew, and I'm looking at the time and I, knew Frankie's up there, those three records would play. And I used to, and I took a, a guess, and it worked. And I was making a shitload of money. And I would, you know, people saying, how are you doing this? And then I realized, and I just kept it to myself. I didn't tell my father,

I didn't tell my uncle. I didn't tell, I didn't tell Frankie. So basically you're saying, Frankie would use Larry Levin as his human Shazam? As his eyes and ears, right? So everybody has eyes and ears. Right. Like, you know, what, what's that? So Larry was Frank. Yankees as in years. So what I'm asking, though, is did payola truly, truly stop? And what was like the case that broke payola, like to the point where the feds got involved? I mean, there were a lot of cases. There was something in the late 80s or the mid 80s on the pop side.

But I never really, I'm being honest. I'm asking who would be the person that would snitch and say, hey, like, is it a, Is it a label that can't get airtime or can't get play? And they're like, well, obviously they're playing thriller every 12 seconds. So let's call the feds on. It's almost like the DJ drama situation to me. Like who has enough time to like make a phone call to the top of the pyramid to say, hey, we got to arrest blah, blah, blah, because.

Me personally, I think it will be more markets that were probably not getting whatever they needed to get. And they were probably riding out on the bigger markets. You're right. Who has the time? I don't understand the rap mentality. It could be. I mean, it's only enough, but so much space on a playlist. So if you take enough five slots, that's a problem. Did you find it, like I know there was a sort of a sea change in around 96, like once clear channel, once a new level of radio comes in which, like, they're now pre-programming songs. Way ahead of time. For you, what was the period in which your actual DJ, your personality, when did they lose their power?

Like the Frankie Crocker's of the world, the tastemakers. Well, Frankie was the program director. So he never really lost his power. Like you said, I think when the clear channels came to the world, when it became corporate, you know, you were trying to ask earlier, it's like, when did the mob leave the music business, right? or you know whatever i i think once everything started getting corporate like when Vegas came and the the major corporation started getting buying the hotels boom i think when major corporations started buying the major record companies like when general electric you know

or see i think i get yeah you know so i think that's when all that shit just got cut to the wayside all right so in your opinion what's the better era, the mob era of the record business or the corporate era of the record business. To me, the mob era, of course, it was more of a creative business. But then in a mob era, it was a ceiling for people of color to be in executive positions and to make decisions and stuff like that. So it's kind of like, right? But also, but then the other side of that is a lot of the creative, you know, a guy like Crocker or even you.

I mean, if you decided, like, you could have been the person that broke the roots out. No, that's true. For radio people, it sucked. I mean, however, I will say it didn't suck for mixed DJs up until the odds because although corporate took over radio, mixed DJs could still do their little wiggle, wiggle, wiggle, you know. I mean, they still, like, the program directors to have to play this record. So I'm to ask, you know, I think the mixture guys lost their power to. Oh, they did. They did.

I just mean, it was a middle. in between of what Amir was talking about with corporate, yes, but then all of a sudden mixed DJs had to play certain records that their PDs were telling them that they had to play. But I'm just saying, you also remember if you think about it, Amir certain DJs in Philadelphia, they was getting a couple dollars

for the mix show. Yeah. Well, I'll say now it's a little exciting. I mean, I, you know, I don't know how far what Funkmaster Flex is doing now. Huh. Interesting. Which is, you know, like, to me, this is probably the best thing that I've seen

Fumpmaster Flex do during his entire tenure like at Hot 97 which is basically challenge uh acts to you know

provide him with this okay you complain I don't support you okay you got seven days to make a song and bring it to me and it's really at least the buzz of it now

at least from like my inner circle cats are now like it's almost like they have a reason to live. Like, suddenly their antenna's on high, and they're, like, more excited to make music now because of the pressure of Flex called me out, and I've got to have a song in seven days. So now...

Illething? Wow. No, it's buzzet. I mean, even to the point where, you know, we, us, like, hey, we might get that call. Let's start getting our arson already. Like, that sort of thing's happening. So that's an interesting question for Steve, because I was, man, it just makes me, it really reminds me like when mixed DJs, like in every city,

there was a mixed DJ that was king, right? I mean, kind of in a way, right? Radio Mix DJ. So now I'm curious if Funkmaster Flex and people like that still have the same level of like pull influence that they used to. I think with Flex, I think he's still, I think his voice is still something that you guys were just saying, you know, he's on Instagram and he's challenging really to put out a record, you know, you know, Buster just put something out the other day, you know,

he challenged Buster to put something out. So I think it's really just in your DNA, like in your personality, you know, flex, you know, has always, you know, been, you know, he's brain. Like, he, you know, he's always reinventing himself. You know, you got to take your hat off to him. He's making it. He's keeping himself relevant. I hope this spreads like wildfire.

Like we complain and complain about the state of hip hop. but oftentimes, like, we're not challenged to really, you know, bring it. Because oftentimes it's just a survival game, you know, for a lot of these acts. No, you're right. But you know what? I challenge the executives, too, to start finding a new route, you know, and taking chances and get it off your ass and be outside and find something new and exciting that 30 years from now is going to have fucking longevity. that it's still going to be relevant to something. And these executives today aren't doing that.

Preach. And that's coming from the top. I'm not even blaming them. You know, it's all about a fucking TikTok and a number. You know, I just rebamp my dad's labor. And it's like, and you know, my son is running the label. He's 27 years old. And I'm like, this name is Alex.

I'm like, Alex, people still got to touch the fucking street. And they got to touch people. You know, so find a fucking way where you can merge both, you know, and that's what quality control did. That's what topped it, you know, and it's like they still own the streets. And so the business doesn't really change. Words change. But people, you know, what made the music business so great? People took chances.

I mean, like what Russell did or Joe and Sylvia Roberts, you know, let's go back to the time of the pop. Right. I mean, they all took chances. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions,

my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Cliverts Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever

you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield. And in this new season of the girlfriends, oh my God, this is the same man. a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me?

The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe.

On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, podcast, it's all about the NFL draft, and we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar, this is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode.

Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slice of Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. I know about that initial period in 83. But once hip hop really truly gains momentum, what was your view on it in terms of like what it was in the mid-80s to late 80s during that sort of that first golden era?

What was your role in it? I was just an independent promotion guy at the time. You know, the three, you know, there's a guy by the name, Hiram Hicks, he's from Philly. Piron. Yeah. And we became extremely close. And, you know, he was extremely close to Mike Biven from Blue Edition.

And they were coming up to New York. And I was in the, I wasn't on the road at the time. I was up in, I was in New York. And he goes, I'm going to be in town with Mike, a new addition. And I was like, all right, we'll come by the office. we came by, I guess they were having issues with their manager. They wanted to find that manager. And I hired myself, my dad on my uncle, we started managing the division.

That was like 85, 86. So for the awful love period? No. Or the cool it now? I tell you, we got involved with the once a lifetime groove single. Okay. So right after, right after the cooling now? Yeah, yeah.

Okay. And then what was the Andy Heartbreak album? 87. 87. So I moved to LA in 88, which was managing new edition. And I hooked up with a label called Bullish Final, which had Tone Woke and Young MC. Matt Dike. And yeah.

So that was Mike Ross, Rick Ross and Matt Day. And then the Tone Logue video, I think, cost like $500. hours. Yes. And if there was a guy been named or Rick Crim, who was just Rick was at MTV and he would just happen to be just a really good friend of mine, you know, and MTV was playing just Rockshund. So I never had any business with him. And they were starting, he called me up and he said, um, we're starting this new thing called Yo MTV. This wasn't daily. This was just weekly. This was with Freddie. With fact, right? I said, oh, it's funny that you said that.

I'm going to send you a video with this kid and see if you like it. And it was Tom Bo. You know, and they put it in your hope for one week. And then I went into whatever the word was, Buzzbin or whatever. And the record just took off. All right. So you casually just dropping these bombs. Can you pre-loud, can you just name other projects you just happen to

far as gump your way into? From 87 to I sold out to 99, you know, the only records I never really worked good. I mean, I pretty much worked everything except for death row. But I even did some records for Russell and not, and puffed in something. But shit, from Daz Effects to EPMD to K-Solo to Q-Tip and Tribe to. Well, what's the first street team you did, though, Steve? Like, what was the first, like? The first record was brand.

Can do you and slow down. I just, I need you to break down your whole, I'm sorry, Mirr, I need him to break down your whole mind state of creating street team because I'm fascinated from being at a radio station and them then turning their promo teams into street teams and every other record company turning their, think, your situation. So tell me, please. Can I add to your question? Yeah.

Because what was the year that you consider street team to actually be like a flag planning moment? And are you saying that before then? So, so I'm going to tell. I'm going to tell you for me. Okay. When the brand new being slow down come out? 98?

90. 90. All right. So, 89. Well, no, I would say 89. I took my last $3,000. And I made these pamphlets. And I sent it to all the record companies.

And I came to New York and I stood up meetings with everybody. And I told them what we were going to do. We weren't going to focus on radio because you said you came from radio, right? You weren't playing that many rap records. Yes. the people before me five years before me yes but i got you yeah right so hour 99 no rap radio yeah right so at the at the end of the day i came back with a hundred and forty six thousand dollars run of the business oh from the pamphlet and it was just

and i covered everything like i you know we empowered the mixed show dj we empowered the college radio like and just you know the barbershops like and it was just wherever there were a group of people we would just go in attack and just, you know, word of mouth, you know, and my philosophy is even to this day, how many times have you been ready to be you, if it's a record, a movie, a restaurant, whatever it was, that the review is straight garbage. But the shit was incredible. Shrew Shankly done. Right.

Really? Bad reviews? Yeah. Harb reviews. I'm still here. Yeah. So you're saying before that, like, because I can't imagine New York without seeing snipes of an album coming out or stickers everywhere of all those things so between you and rene who was

the first to really that was early night you know but i'm going to you know the one when we did i'm going to get that joe a lot of credit okay so when we signed pawn when you drove down the west side highway we must have spent $20,000 on posters i mean you're literally those black and yellows right From the bridge to fucking basketball city. Why can I see those? I can see it. I mean, that was joke saying this is what we got to do. And that was just my philosophy.

It's like, I didn't grow up on the street. The street excites me. I mean, I go up in the Long Island. Right. So who am I to say no to somebody? Like, when they had that type of passion. And the full concept of everybody wearing something similar to? Yeah.

but like my head of my head of my street team in New York close me up one night fucking ecstatic he goes I just wrapped the attenna of the Empire State book I'm like say what and I'm like the antenna of the empire I'm like first of all that's the dumbest thing

like I mean you know like you can really it's the dumbest thing I've ever heard because you can't fucking see it so on that note then have you had to bail people out of jail and stuff because sometimes street teams go hard I was like to say. And then they fight each other.

It was like, you violate the post no bills law. Yeah, like when you walk before our office, like behind the receptions, you know, there was like five bells bonkers and a bunch of a criminal attorneys pretty much in every city. Wow. Wait a minute. It just hit me. It just hit me. The night, if you older Roots fans can remember the infamous old dirty bastard moment. with the roots at

at Irving Plaza I believe that Irving Plaza was one of the first clubs to ban the roots, not because of us in general or the fight between old dirty bastard. What's the thing when you get spray paint

and then you tag? Tag. Like you lay a grid on the ground and then you spray paint it and then it's just stencil Yeah, I remember

that that there was a bunch of hell on earth there was a bunch of mob deep hell on earth stencils all over Irving Plaza and you know There were also a bunch of Nike switches too Okay

But No, no, I'm not playing. You know, it was just like, they were just like, ah, no more raping. Like, they actually- Nike, mob deep, though. Like, no, for like two years, like, no hip-hop was allowed in Irvin Plaza just because, like, of the level of street team. But, okay, without a college degree, in terms of knowing the power that you have with

this type of marketing, because, you know, essentially, if you're in a car, you got about 2.9 seconds to just look to your right to see something and have it stick to your brain. Were you in terms like doing these snipes and doing this sort of

level of street promotion were you also like designing the snipes like would you know that with big pun that yellow and black will stand out and so we had our own art to call. You know so I mean,

I mean, they would be working 24-7. Like, you know, and they would just, until Joe approved whatever needed to get done, Joe approved it. But, you know, but with the street team, to me, everybody does their research now, you know, is it doing this, it's doing that. But whatever city was in, like, we knew the most popular bus where the kids were going, you know, from school to the deli or, you know, whatever was. So that's the type of research that we would do. I didn't care about anything else. It's just where are the kids and where are the kids populating and where are the kids hanging out.

You know, and that's really all I care about. I didn't care about anything. Every time we came with a wreck, I would say, if we get these five stations, we'll do 300,000. We get these 15 stations, we'll go. We get 25 stations. We'll go planet. If we run the gamut, we're going to go multi-pladder.

I didn't give a fuck. about that whole thing. All like, you know, I have a corny saying the streets don't lie. And it could be whatever. You could be on Rodeo Drive, France, you're a hundred twenty-fifth street. Whatever it is, you know, you just got to find your base and your foundation. So with having this, this, this, this well-oiled machine, uh, establishing in the early 90s and whatnot, why step into starting your own label? why not like turn this into like the one thing you focus on and making that the so it's a great question so i think i'm a multi-molta millionaire i'm doing a few hundred

thousand dollars a year now and i come back to new york i'm living in l-a i come back to new york my cousin's wedding and there was a guy but i named a jerry eight from the famous artist agency and every time i came every time i came to new york he would let me work out of his office And he goes, I don't understand you. He goes, why don't you have your own labor? Why don't you have your own labor? Why the fuck do I want my own labor? I'm good.

Like, I would work to three o'clock, change, go to basketball courts, play ball, go home, shower, eat in and go back to the office and send out my reports. So, you know, as we said earlier, my family really doesn't play. So he goes, well, we take this meeting with Paul Marshall. I'm like, yeah, Paul's my dad's life. So, you know, Paul says I could get you this tremendous deal with BMG. I'm like, I'm good. I don't want it, right?

So by the time I get to Rich Isaacson's apartment, who is my partner, out of my childhood best friend, my dad's call. And he goes, I need you to come to the house. I go,

I'm in the city. It's a 45-minute train ride. Who knows what time to train for the county? He goes, I don't give a fuck. Come to the house now. And he was with,

you know, some of his people, and, you know, he was ready to beat the shit out of me. He goes, don't you ever turn down a fucking wrecked deal. He goes,

You know the difference between a record deal or a label deal and what you're doing now? I'm like, no. He goes, what you're doing now, you're only as good as your last record or your last contract. With owning a record company, you have true assets. So even when you're not doing something, it could be making money. And it was probably the first time that we ever agreed on something. And it like, it clicked into my fucking head. I was like, you know what?

You're right. And I said, you know what? I'm going to call Paul in the morning and I'll go see him. He didn't believe me, knowing how fucking crazy I am. So he called Paul. He says, we'll see you at 2 o'clock. And, you know, and that's how loud pretty much started. I was just curious, your father, since you guys, I was wondering how he, what he thought about hip hop.

My dad put that first hip-hop record. I mean, but my dad never considered himself an N-R guy. He never considered himself an N-N-R guy. He just considered himself a guy. promotion guy. And, you know, and he just truly loved people. And he didn't see, he didn't see color. He didn't see any, you know, it's like our house was like United Nations. Right. So you guys, it was a nice evolution. That's what I kind of mean for your family. Like you were the perfect kind of evolution. I mean, Charleston lives in our house. The first act you signed was

twisted, correct? Yeah. So it's, it's always curious to see flagship artists on these big labels. Like, you know, I'm just finding out that Rico Suave was the first act on the Interscope. Interscope, yeah. What was it about Twista? And actually, for me, I think the first thing I heard about Twista was like a beef with threats from Nardi by Nature. Like, that's, what was it about Twista that attracted you to him that said, I can sell this?

Or was it just like, it's dope? and let me put it out. So the record was called Mr. Tungwister and my staff was losing their mind. And they were comparing. I forget who the league guy was of poor righteous teachers. As intelligent. Right, right. Right.

Right. And they were comparing him to, and they were comparing him to that. And just, it was my first act that I ever really, you know, I was like, all right, this could be something that's special. So, and that was the first act that I brought to be. And we found it through my, we found it through my street team and my, there's a guy named with Jack Sterling. He was out of Chicago street rep.

And he sent it to a guy with name with Fay Duvenet, who was doing my college radio and Nixote. We were signed to call Mixo. And, um, and he was managed by a DJ in Chicago and GCI by name of Eric the Wiss. I flew him out. We did a deal and it, and I had something to show BMG. Let me ask you, why did you choose BMG? Because, you know, for me at least, I never considered RCA as a frontrunner in urban music,

like the way that Columbia was or I meant maybe Warner with Tommy Boyd, but was it the fact that they had no track record whatsoever and they offered you space to... I didn't even look at that. I just had so much confidence to myself. You know, when I first was going there, it was a guy named Lou Malia, who had Zoo Entertainment, the BMD Finance.

It was supposed to be a new company. Twister was the only thing that really came out of zoo, and they shut the zoo down. So then a guy named Ron Urban, who was a finance guy, who was the CFO and CEO of RCA. He was in Atlanta visiting this attorney, Joel Katz, and it was Jack the Rapper.

And we came in and I just took a liking to Ron and he says you know I say it now. He goes, you give me an inch and I'll give you whatever you need. So it was like how much heavy lifting are you going to need from us? I'm like, I'm not going to need you guys to do a fucking thing. You know, we already, we were already staffed up through the marketing company. You know, and then we got lucky. There was somebody who worked at our ICA. He became my brother pretty much a partner.

I mean Mojo and you can see it. And Mojo ended up after a year, year and a half at RSA, he's been with me ever since. I'm curious what your expectations were, or I guess, yeah, what you told them to expect from this record. I didn't want a penny from the... What they had to do was just give me money to make the album. And I think the album budget was $50,000. Okay.

I'll handle all the marketing money, and then once I get it to $100,000, you got to give me a few hundred thousand dollars. At the time, were you trying to figure out how to position yourself next to a deaf jam, a Tommy boy, a Jive, or were you just going to be so underground, you were the abyss? I, you know, once you really get to know me, you're running a race. You can't worry what the next person is still. Like, if you, if you look over your shoulder, you're going to trip eventually. So Russell had Def Jam, Jive had Jive, you know, and Barry and Clive, I mean, Clyde, I mean, Clyde, had to be the smartest. I mean, he took,

everybody, you know, when he sold. But I never looked at that way because, and I looked at them as allies because they were still paying me to work their records. And there was never a conflict of interest at all? I had to, you know, no. I mean, if you know me, it's like, I'm going to be a straight shooter. Like, if you're going to pay me, I'm going to do the job. And if I can't do the job, I'm not going to take your money.

And here's the question, did you work in their records too? Do you have an ear now to say to people to other labels like, I know I can work this on college and mixed, but commercial, this is a more college mix, you know, like, how does that work? So by this time, pretty much we were on retainer with every major. I mean, I was making more money with the marketing company than I was making with the label. Right. So they listen to you.

So, like, we would be part of their staff, you know, and then finally they were saying, why are we paying, you know, them so much money? Some of the retainers, you know, got dropped and people started putting departments in place. But they were still, everybody pretty much all came under my umbrella. So I, so like Fade, who was one of my first employees, he went over to Interscope. And he actually came with the loud name. So when Iniscope cut the retainer with me, Fade would still put me on certain records. You know, so I just had everybody in place.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrate.

One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford. And at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield.

And in this new season of the girlfriends... Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same process. prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands.

I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar,

this is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12. and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. All right.

I'm dying to ask you to get in the Wooteng territory, but I can't forget. What was it about? And, you know, I think it's also notable to point out that, you know, in the early 90s, suddenly the regionalism of hip-hop is expanding more. You know, of course, we saw, like, the ghetto boys and rap a lot in Houston,

happened, like, really go mainstream in the 90s and then suddenly like we're realizing that oh California has good emcees and this territory in Atlanta and new you know that sort of thing for you though with the signing of the alcoholics and madcap

especially madcap I was one of those people that you know I saw like a madcap show and you know the madcap was like just listen to that tape and I listened to that tape so much like they were like a mixture of they were kind of the idea of what I

thought, because even in 92, 93, I didn't know what the roots were going to be. So the reason why you like Maircaps so much was because of Joe, the trumpet player. Right. And he was live. Right. But also, I mean, you know, like there were live elements on that record. Yep. And, you know, again, we were just starting our first record.

And we weren't in full agreeance on whether or not what we were in concert should also be the same thing that we're on in the studio. Actually, I was against it. I'm like, ah, we don't want to be a band in the studio. Like, let's be a regular rap group. But I heard the cap record, and I was like, oh, all right. Between that and what the far side was doing,

then I was like, okay, I see an entry there. But for me, or you at least, like, why, were they just too early for their time? I think they were a little bit too early for their time. And then, you know, they had two records that I thought could have been the first single the kit and caboodle produced by Broadway. And then second record proof in the pudding, which was, you know, a lot of live instruments. I think, of course, you know, the only one who really had a, and they were from Pasadena,

they weren't from South Central. So even though Pasadena was a huge, I mean, a tough fucking area, it still was in South Central. and South Central was already brand. So easy had a lock and all that. So, you know, and it wasn't gangster music, right? I mean, it was more hippie music. And, you know, and I tell this to Broadway. I haven't spoken to them in a while,

but I tell us to Broadway all the time. If there was a hook in the Holkitt Caboodle, that record would have been a fucking monster. You're right. You're right. You know, but the funny, the great thing now is, Coke, who was in the group, you know, is a huge director now. Really?

Yeah, huge movie director. Like, does these amazing urban films, you know, and he, you know, and he finances him to itself. And he just, you know, he runs the board. I mean, it's fucking amazing what he's doing. Well, then let me ask you about the alcoholics because, you know, that was also an era in which we're, you know, we had our idea of what Ellen. was and then groups like the far side, the alcoholics, groups like

Souls and Mischief, you know, up in the Bay Area and the whole Hyro crew. Like, we didn't know, it was like an anomaly. Like, when we first heard the alcoholics, we're like, wait, they're from California? Yeah. Exactly.

Like this? How did you come across there? So Fade went to see, he went to the studio to see MacGat. And he Swift was, um, was there and shit phaed just shows up in my house like 11 o'clock at night like pounding on the fucking door because i just found you know the best thing you know since white bread you know and it was

just like you got to come to the studio now and i'm like i'm not i'm not going to the studio i didn't believe to me i didn't really believe in the studio because i mean i need it only that should happen in studios so i was like now like the comment not untrue they'll come in the office in the morning or whatever. And it was a Friday, it was a Thursday night when he came pounding on the door. And they came up, their original demo, to me, I thought they were the next CPMD.

Yeah, nothing. I can't even, like, I wish I could just bottle up. Like, when you're living in it, you just take for granted that this sort of brilliance is just going to be the norm. So you know, you just, you don't take a time out to really appreciate it. But yeah, no.

Nothing will ever be the feeling of, you know, I come from Philly in which, you know, Cosmekev, A.J. Shine, Just Def, like, basically our version of Stretching Bob Beto at Drexel University would play that whole album insanely, like, just on radio. The West Coast loved them, but again, it wasn't NWA, it wasn't Dre. Snoop is just coming, right? So they had met, I mean, Ralph did a lot of their videos. Mm-hmm. Right. Wait a minute. Okay, this is a crazy off-kilter question, but only because I'm, okay, yeah, I'm working on Soul Train right now. To get the alcoholics mainstream Soul Train play.

And Don's like notorious for not, like, literally like, I think there's, I've counted three dance lines to make room, which is just unheard of for like a real rap song that potent to get like almost that level of love. I was like when the alcoholics were like regularly played on Soul Train,

which a group of that level should have just been an underground status and maybe some MTV love and that sort of thing. But This is Jamar Morseo is trying to mirror. No, Don Cornelius era. Really? How did you guys pull this off? We knew the booker, and Don truly loved the record.

Huh? Yeah, it's just unheard of. It's unheard of. All right, all right, I got to get to it. So don't forget, make room was it, even though they were from the West Coast, there was a non-threatening record. They didn't really curse on the record. I know.

Like, they were humorous, they were funny. Yeah. And the production was, Awesome. That's what I like. Can I just ask real quick? Steve, at this point, are you developing, what is the loud philosophy? Like, because you, like you said, you ain't deaf jam, you ain't jazz.

We all know this. We know we went to loud for certain things. But like, in your mind, what is it? So I didn't really have an A in our staff yet. So to me, that cap was self-contained. Alcoholics were self-contained. And we had, we did okay with them. Twister wasn't self-contained.

And, you know, even though he broke, you know, marketing-wise, we did an amazing job. We flew in the guy from the Guinness, broke the World Record from London. Right, I remember that. We had him on MTV and he signed him, and he was, you know, voted the fastest rapper in the world. But really, you know, it wasn't an amazing album.

So I needed people who could really be self-contained. Right. Okay. That's the commonality. And then from that, Wu, tag, self-contain. Okay. My deep self-contain. Okay.

Now, let me ask you, we're here. Knowing what you know now, knowing what you know now of the past 30 years of Wu-Tangology, would you have struck a different deal with the Rizza, you still would have just given their running papers. I'm going to tell you what. Why? 30 years.

Me and Riz is still talk two or three times a week. It matters. Right? I will never fight over money. So by me, I was in survival mode. I needed that plaque. I needed a gold out. Right?

So, right, I met them on March 3rd, 1993, a day after my 31st birthday. I was with East Swipper. I was with East Splifford. from the alcoholics. We're in New York. I'm in a guest office in New York. And the receptionist comes, you know, in those days, there was no security, right? You know, you just pop up it at a record. I'm not like deaf jam. Okay. Right. Right. And they said, a Prince Raqim is here. I've been trying to chase him down since the beginning of the year. And he shows up and it's he's looking, he goes, I have the guys downstairs. Now, I don't know if there are three guys, nine guys,

you know, whatever it is. But I'm in an office as big as the fucking square on my Zoom right to second, right? And he swifts is behind me, and they perform, protect your neck live to the record. Somebody comes barging into the room and says, that's that shit. I don't know if he was in the middle or Rizzers sent me up.

Right? And he left. And he left. I never saw the guy again. But the energy in that fucking room was ridiculous. and Rizza said, this is the only way

we're going to do the deal. And I was like, you know what? I was managing new addition. Ralph was always threatening to leave and the only one where the group to me was always bigger than the

BPD solo artists except for Michael Jackson. But even when Michael Jackson tour, when it came time to do a Jackson tour or the Jackson 5th or whatever they were called at the end, they still out did Michael's tour. Wait.

Ah, damn. Now you said that, I wanted to ask. I wanted to ask, because even at the Essence Festival this year, I was like, this might be the rare case in which Tito is more successful than Michael. How did that, how did that affect Ralph, at least during that time? You know, I know, I don't know when you left New Edition, but, you know, you were there for heartbreak in which when they came to you with the, idea of like, hey, we're going to do our side project with poison. Were you guys like, oh, okay, whatever. No, I was already out.

Hi, I'm on the store. All right, you're out. Okay, I got it. But I was there when Mike called me and said, we want to put Johnny in the group. So, you know, if Ralph ever leaves, we have a lead singer. Okay, so it was like that. But at the end of the day, like, I just always believe the group is still always be bigger than the whole. And the truth of the matter is, he let me still. have matching rights.

But so unprecedented. You heard Method Man's voice and was like, I'll let you go. So wait. So then Steve, this was portrayed correctly in the saga of the Wu then, right? Because they did this whole process on this show, on the Hulu show. Yeah. Have you seen? Yeah. Okay.

Okay. You know how much that album cost us? Cheap. Not a lot. $60,000. $60,000. Yeah. Right? So how many albums you think I saw between Wu-Tang Forever and 36-Shame. I get it. And Ray Kwan's level.

I get it. And you're not the bad guy. And you're not the bad guy. Like, I just remember in the... And I still had the best solo album at a roll of them. I know, but, all right. But look, again, again, I'm just saying that this is lightning in a bottle. You literally have super friends.

And yes, I agree that when the smoke is... cleared. Cuban links is probably, I almost feel like, yes, I know that we can't say anything bad about into the Wu-Tang, but for me, like, Cuban-Links is the pinnacle

Wutang project. Oh, 100. Everybody agrees. That should have been the second album. Part of me wasn't a little bit greedy, like, ah, let me take Dirty, or at least get Method, man. First of all, Dirty was already signed.

And but, but, but, but this is, this is where my head's at. And, and this is my thing. I still made money, right? Because when Dirty was signed to Elektra, I still had the marketing company. Electra paid me triple what I normally got. Ah, okay. Getten paid me triple what I normally got, right? So I, I was good.

And like I said, I'm not going to fight over money and I'm not greedy. Right? So I did okay. And I feel I won. And it made loud what it was. And it gave me the reputation that the artist came first. You forget, I also got arrested fighting for that. Whoa, what happened?

Wait, I'm sorry. I remember. I remember this sounds familiar. Go ahead. Tell us. So renegotiating Ray's first album, Cuban Lings, and Wu Tang's second deal and second album. They came in to renegotiate. And I'm supposed to be on RCA side.

But before that even happened, me, Rizza, his lawyers, and my attorney, they came in. We came in and we're going to, we're going to do this together. I haven't gotten paid yet. I'm making my money through the market. Right? You know, we're like a million and a half record sold now. And the business affairs, she was a woman, is holding still for $20,000. And I'm like, and bring.

the pain is blowing the fuck up and I'm like just give him the $20,000 or I'll write a fucking check like I'll figure out of wait to get him to $20,000 I never hit a woman in my life to this day you know right but she says go fuck yourself Steve Rifkin and we're in the 36th floor conference I take this chair and I'm ready to throw the chair through that window that's going to break the window and it's going to land on somebody on Broadway I catch the chair I dislocate my thumb I turn around and I throw it through the glass door in the lobby. And they called the cops. Cops came.

The rest of me was a Friday. I just found out I was having my first child three days before that. Damn. That's it was intense. Right? I didn't, there was no email. This was literally, I sent them a voicemail. I sent them a call.

was i was in florida for thanksgiving and met the man just did 120 000 first week no you know like those numbers were crazy i was like you just fucked yourself like and rizard wouldn't sign the deal yet until you know and i went off and it just created a war between um me and bmg but the thing was rizer says don't worry We're going to come back in in February, and we're going to take up for every fucking penny they had. And they ended up getting a new CEO and a new president. And we came in and we put him in a fucking headlock.

Just that. We took them for every fucking penny they had. What up, QLS fam? This is unpaid bill. We'll pause part one right here for now as this episode covers a lot of brown. Come back next week for part two where Steve Rifton talks about just how much you wanted to sign Acon, Tommy put hands on a certain film mogul, and its new venture. We had fun recording this episode, and I hope you're into it, too. What's Love Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. For more podcasts from IHeart Radio,

visit the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey,

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