The Questlove Show - The Questlove Supreme Pilot: From The Vaults

Episode Date: June 7, 2023

Travel back to 2016 to experience the never-before-heard pilot episode of Questlove Supreme. Ahmir, Phonte, Boss Bill, and Suga Steve interviewed the award-winning producer, musician, and songwriter Bill Sherman. By the end of this loose and funny discussion, "Unpaid Bill" was part of the Team Supreme family—even if he did not know it yet.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Questlove Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. All right, ladies and gentlemen, every story has a beginning. And you're about to hear that very, very awkward beginning. We shot a pilot for Questlove Supreme with our very own unpaid bill. With the time, it didn't know that by the time this interview was over, he was going to join the show. Yeah, I don't know the genesis of the show, I think. It started with my fandom of Fonte and Boss Bills. Gordon Cartrell podcast.

Sugar Steve and I always talked about during our own podcast. And I remember the notes from our bosses saying that it might help to have a voice of a woman on the show. So Laia will have joined us, I think, by episode five. So this is episode one. The pilot episode of Quest Love Supreme, never heard before with Unpaid Bill. If my memory serves to be correct, I believe that Fonte really knocked the ball out of the park in rare form. Like Fonte was so good, I think that's what made unpaid Bill want to join the show. So enjoy it.

This is the first time I'm hearing it with you guys. This is the very first episode of Quest Love Supreme. Hope you enjoy. Ladies and gentlemen, this is the first episode of Quest Love Supreme to my left. We have the Grand Imperial, the awesomest, the best podcast renter I know. That's supremely talented. Fonte Coleman. What's going on?

What up? What up? Fon tigolo, Fonte, Fonte, Mentay, Mucigolo, what up? And also, we should acknowledge our resident team of Bill, Winkchild Johnson. He's mute right now on the microphone. Steve Mandel, in later episodes, will also offer his two cents. How you doing you? I'll tell you then later on the stage.

And to my right, we have our very first guest, honored. Mr. Bill Sermon, Bill, you have a long-storied history. And when this show gets more professional, then I will have your actual credits on. But being as though we made this phone call extremely last minute, Bill was one of one of the fortunate eight producers of a small off-broadway play called Hamilton.

You might have heard of it. You might have heard of it. I don't know. How are you doing, Bill? I'm good, man. That's great. I'm happy to be here. Well, we're glad to happen. Hamilton's an off-Broadway place? Not an off-Broadway plays? I was a joke. No, I was playing in Harlem somewhere.

It's at a Harlem church. It's all-female K. You know, actually, I saw this play once in Harlem. They were redoing the nativity scene. And they happened to have, I think Felicia Rashad was like the angel. And no,

Felicia Rashad was, I think, Mary. And Stephanie Mills, singer Stephanie Mills was the, one of the angels. Was this before the Wiz? No, this is way after the Cosby show. This is like last year. This was, I'll tell you what,

this is when the roots were. We're mixing Ilydorf Half-Life. Oh, good guy. This had to been 96. I like the fact that you can chronologically know what happened in your life by what Roots record we were working on, or you were working on, which I think it's fantastic. Because I can probably see parts of my life when Roots Records came out that were important to me. Well, but I don't know dates. My memory bank is about what albums came out.

Like, I don't, that's how I remember dates. Not like a, what's her name, Mary Lou Henner from Taxi that has this, like, you can tell her, like, April 14. 162, and she'll tell you exactly what she was wearing that day. Oh, wow, wow. Like, I've tested it a few times when she's been on The Tonight Show. But I only remember based on Prince albums, Michael Jackson Records, and what the roots were doing that year. That's all.

I like that. Yeah, I remember I Lidav that was, I skipped school to buy Iledov. What? I remember I was, I made you a juvenile. Yeah, that was, Illadalev, that was one of the two albums that I broke the law. Well, other than the records, I stole. I mean, it's still, and that's, you know, whatever. But, like, one of the first record I can remember breaking the law for was Goody Mop's Soul Food.

I drove to the mall on a learner's permit to buy that album from the mall. Yeah, like, yeah, you know what I mean? Like, I didn't have my... I drove to the ball on the Lernerner's good by that day. Several. So then on, on Illadeth Half-Life, I remember the record came out, and I was a junior in high school. My homies were seniors. And at the time, you know,

juniors, only upper classes would go off campus for lunch. And so one of my boys was like, yo, we're going to direct exchange to get their roots joint. I said, I'm right with y'all. Fuck that. Let's go.

And so I went, and I didn't go back to school that next day. I think I went back for like football practice or something, but that was it. What? I was a truant for your...

Wow, I'm on it. Yeah, man. I had to have it. Have you, and you could skip school and then go back to play football? Yeah, you could. Because the coach is like, you know,

It was, they needed to help. It was cool. Did you, have you ever committed a musical crime? Of that nature. To buy a record, no. I skipped school a couple times, for sure, as we all did. I didn't skip school to buy a record. Really?

I'm trying to remember, no. I didn't, I mean, I've committed many musical crimes in the name of shitty music, for sure. But that's like a whole different story altogether. Oh, man, I don't know if I should share this story or not. Yes, you should. I think that's the whole purpose of the shit. I definitely need to share it. All right.

So the worst whipping I ever got in my life was over... A little 1999? Close. The Times first record? What? Wait. I had to set it up for you because basically... Okay, so there's a song called After High School.

That's on the Times first album. And, you know, it was a... It was one of those moments at performing arts. Now, I went to the private performing arts from first grade to seventh grade. And so, you know, it was in the early 80s. So, yes, it was very much close to what life was like on fame. Like, people would break out in song, break out and dance, do full-scale production. Leg warmers.

Yeah, seriously. So someone had, it was one of those cliche moments. Someone had a big, giant boom box and put the time cassette. and put after high school on. And then we were all doing that Eddie Murphy. This is how white people dance, dance. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, the Carlton.

The Carlton, right. Like, and it was a happy moment. And then I unfortunately danced a little too close to the boom box and caused it to fall on the ground. Like, I ruined the moment. Think of that rerun, Doobie Brothers. Yeah, when the tape machine, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'll just shatter.

I know a lot of references, a lot of you won't, get, but just Google it, kids. Yeah, I know, I feel like we should have, like, some kind of, like, annotations. Like, okay, so Al Dunbar, the Doobie Brothers episode of what's happening. Wait, you're naming. Yo, Al, yeah, you remember Al's Al, he was the boot letter. All right, so he was the bootleg of it. Wait a minute.

So we have to annotate. Okay, so it was the time rerun went to, rerun wanted tickets to a Doobie Brothers concert at their high school. And, you know what I'm saying? And then like, he was the fat, he was, you know, the fat kid that had the, like, the day he could hide the tape player. So he was, like, the original Napster of, like, 1975. So, like, so he goes and tries to take the shit. And.

You remember this episode? No. Oh, my God. Man, it's classic. I was born in 1980. I was, no, no, no. I was born in 78. I was, I mean, we'd be right behind each other.

But, no, I remember I used to watch this every day. So, your man that played Al Dunbar was also the black as, Theodore Wilson, who also played, he was also a character on Good Times. He was also a character on Good Times. I can't remember which one he was. was on good times. He wasn't Linnae. He wasn't Linnae. Yeah, the name is Linnae. He wasn't him. He was like another guy. He was like... I get him and how... What's his name

mixed up? Howe from 227? From 227? Yeah, Hal Williams. Hal Williams, who's Lester Jenkins. It's, oh boy, this we going down to black rabbit hole so far. It's not even 10 minutes. So Al Dunbar, I saw Al Dunbar coerces a rerun to take this this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this,

this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, his full beard. Right. And he jump up and the tape player falls out. And so he gets caught. Like, you know, the Dubey brothers see him like, like, dude, we thought you were our friends. How could you boot leg out of shit?

He's paraphrasing it, but it was amazing. First of all, Dube Brothers do this show with a gong. It's on fire and everything. They do when taking it to the streets. And then rerun is dancing his ass off. And then all of a sudden, the tape player just falls to the floor. And the show stops. The show stops.

Someone notices it. One of the bruns. brothers notice and then the Doobie brothers just look at him like it's it's one of those like silent to be continued moments like it was like a very special episode of what's happening you know what I'm saying and so so yeah so they find so they got they they they hook up and they go to Shirley's place and they arrest Al Dunbar and that was how it was yeah it was brought to his resolution mine wasn't that dramatic but basically to avoid the school bully from beat me up because I destroyed his Radio Shack tape player.

I just thought, well, maybe I'll just, you know, swipe some money from home. Oh, wow. And I'll replace, right, there's nothing like being caught in a black household with a black father. No. That's real. No, it's real.

It really got silent at this room. Even the air just shut off. No, it's real. It's real. Because it's just like, I don't know what it. I think with Black fathers, man, like, it's just, like, we was just, before the we started taping, we was talking about your nephews, right? Like, Bill, his nephews is going through some stuff, you know what I mean?

And so he was like, I got to go straightening them out. And Bill Sherman was like, man, they could kind of straighten you out because they, oh. And the things they don't understand about black men, I think once you get to a certain age, You're just not defeating us because it's like when I'm 20 years old and I would like fight, I would just hit you with my fist. But like at like 37, 40, 50, I'm hitting you with every disappointment I've ever had in life. Like I'm hitting you with Vietnam. I'm hitting you with my failed first marriage.

I'm hitting you with every job application that got denied. So for you to steal from a black dad, when you came up like back in the day, Like, oh, man. Dude, all in the name of buying, of repairing his tape player. And maybe possibly buying that time cassette for myself. Oh, man. Woking up at two in the morning. Oh, I can laugh at it now, but it was quite the opposite.

Yeah, so that was the worst crime. Well, I mean, I went through a lot in the early 80s to listen to music. Like, I'll share more of that later. But anyway, Bill, let's talk about your life. From Black fathers to me. I feel right to fucking. You're going through a divorce right now, so you probably got a lot more in common with Black fathers than you realize. Or you're about to in a little bit.

True, true. Is that the reason for the hair change? No, no. The reason this comes up, Amir and I made the Hamilton record, and I had really long hair and looked like a, like a, like a hobo. A cool hobo. You look hipsters. I look, okay.

Of the eight producers of Hamilton, and I thought, okay, I have a lot in common with this guy. Like, everyone else is a suit. That's true. Yeah, so I cut it all off because I was getting long and I didn't want to look like a hobo anymore. And then I saw Amir to think. said, yo man, what's up? And he didn't recognize me at all. Yeah, not at all.

We were taking a photo with the Hamilton Gold record, and he was standing next to me, like, hey, how you doing? I was like, oh, no autographs now. No selfies now. No selfies now. Yeah, so I didn't recognize you, Bill. Sorry. It was pretty great.

So, actually, this isn't your first Grammy. Like, is in the Heights your first foray into professional producing or, like, what's your history with that stuff? Yeah. With music. Start from the beginning. I grew up playing the saxophone. I was really into jazz.

It was like a Dexter Gordon, Coltrane, Hank Mobley fanatic when I was a kid. How old? 13 through 22. Do you still play sax now? Every once in a while. I played it the other day for my kids and I couldn't understand that that's something I did.

It was pretty funny. I'm a little traumatizing myself. I'm like, why didn't you tell me this? I don't know. It never came up. Why would it? Do you play instruments? I mean, I can play the piano.

Okay. Well, I was making light of the fact. that you didn't share with. And I, and the kazoo. And yeah. So I, I, I played the saxophone. I went to college. I went to Wesleyan University in Connecticut.

I studied jazz for a while. And then I got into world music. I was really into West African, got named drumming. That was my thing for a while. I went to Ghana for a semester. I studied and I played. I played a bunch of Phaela's guys while I was there in Ghana who'd come from Nigeria.

This is also a discussion we've never had. Is this real? Did this really happen? Yeah, I'm like, Bill. It did. I hardly knew you. In addition to all the other shit that you know about me, so I met Lynn, Manuel Miranda,

in my junior year of college. And the great story with that, which I tell all the time, is his girlfriend at the time was producing this musical that I was music directing, but I wasn't really into musicals, but that's not the point. And Lynn said,

he came up to me afterwards, and he said, you don't know me and I don't know you, but we're going to work together for a really long time. Wow. Did you think he was this a random crazy person? Totally. I was like, okay, whatever.

Smart guy. So we did. We worked on his senior thesis and some other shit and whatever. And then we graduated and then we were going to put on in the Heights. We put on in the Heights. That was my first musical.

I never had a big background of musicals. I just liked music a whole lot. And then I arranged and orchestrated with Alex Lackmore in the Heights. And then we won a Tony and the Grammy and all that stuff. And then from there, I also play in this group called Freestyle Love Supreme,

which is a hip-hop improv group. Hey. Wow. Right. I know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? He has a lot. He's making this all this.

Yeah, this is all made up. This is my life story, but it's all fictitious. Wait a minute. Do you know about this group? What you guys don't know? No parts of that were true at all. Steve, are you fact-checking me as we speak? Are you Googling it right now?

It's all bullshit. It's probably true. Would you guys don't, I've known Steve and Mandel are engineer for near 20 years, and any time there's a pie-in-face moment for me. He's there. His smirk in the background. He's totally enjoying the fact that I literally am believing everywhere you're saying right now.

Okay. You should. It's true. Freestyle loves Supreme. What you know about this? You know about this? You know about this? Because you were supposed to come to one of our gigs a long time ago when we first met.

We get suggestions from the audience and we make up hip-hop tunes and Lynn's in it and Chris Jackson's in it and guys in it. And I play keyboards and there's a beatboxer and we do all this thing. Right? No, not real. It's not real. But you should see it. It's pretty cool.

See, but the thing is, is that David was on the Tonight Show. No, but David was on the tonight. So speaking of a hip-hop improvisational group that he was a part of with the same people you just mentioned. Yeah. Wait, is that real? That's real. That's the first real thing. Everything up to now has been alive until this particular moment.

That's real. It's all real. All right. So what's the concept of the hip-hop improvisational group? We get suggested from the line. So it's like they do a thing called person-place or sing. It's like you get a person. One guy gets a person, one guy gets a place, one guy gets a singer,

and then we just make up hip-hop tunes about that. Oh, okay. So a musical version of whose line is it anyway? It's a hip-hop version of whose line is it anyway, essentially. But all the music's made up, too. It's all... What was the period of this? It's ongoing, but like when we graduated from college in 2002,

we toured a lot and went around to play a lot of the comedy festivals. This is Wesleyan? It's post-Westliam. Yeah, but a lot of the guys are from Wesleyan. So, like, how, I guess my question, because I just think musicals, I mean, they fascinate me. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not, I'm never was a person that was really big into them.

But I admire the craft that goes into them and just, you know, having to tell a story through song. Like, that's just a lot of fucking words and that's a writer, you know what I mean? So, like, how do you go from just a saxophone player to writing musicals? Like, how, was it something you kind of fell into or was it, like, how did you find your groove in that? Not on purpose. I lived on Long Island as a kid. my parents would bring me to see musicals like every once in a while, but it wasn't something I was drawn to.

Like I'm not, the genre specifically is not, wasn't a thing that I was into. And I met Lynn and he, and we just did this, we did these shows of his because I just liked the music. And in the Heights was all like Latin music and hip hop and stuff like that and stuff I know. And then it just kind of,

like if you asked me what I wanted to do when I was 18, it wasn't, I want to write musical. That was probably not even anywhere on my brain. I mean, I just like, I just like music. And this was one of the things that I do.

and then it sort of spawned all these other things, which is, you know, it's similar to you. It's like you do this thing and does all this other things. You write cookbooks, you know, that kind of shit. Yeah. And then, um... So is the cook, is the cookbook out? It's not a cookbook.

It's not a cookbook at all. I've read it. Cover to cover, cover twice. That's bullshit, Steve. Don't look at me. It's an expose. Steve, you're the official judge of Questlove Supreme. Throw a flag.

Yeah, you're right. Yeah, you're the ref. Steve to ref. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care where you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions,

my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told,

and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network

on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft, and we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galko, joins the Sports Slice podcast

to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make, to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft

like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slice of Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. I'm John Green. You may know me as the author of The Fault and Our Stars. And now, I guess also is the co-host of the away end, a brand new world soccer podcast.

I'm Daniel Alarcon, a writer and journalist. And John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first World Cup was Mexico 86. I was nine years old. I watched every game and I fell in love. On our new podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. For us, soccer, football, is a story we've shared for over 30 years since Daniel was the star player on our high school soccer team. Very debatable.

And I was their most loyal and sometimes only fan. I love this game. I love its history, its hope, its heartbreak, and above all, it's beauty. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Alarcon and John Green on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

On a recent episode of the podcast, Money and Wealth with John Hobriant, I sit down with Tiffany the budgetista Aliche to talk about what it really takes to take control of your money. What would that look like in our families if everyone was able to pass on wealth to the people when they're no longer here? We break down budgeting, financial discipline,

and how to build real wealth, starting with the mindset shifts. Too many of us were never, ever taught. Financial education is not always about, like, I'm going to get rich. That's great. It's about creating an atmosphere for you to be able to take care of yourself and leave a strong financial legacy for your family. If you've ever felt you didn't get the memo on money, this conversation is for you to hear more.

Listen to money and wealth with John. Brian from the Black Effect Network on the I'd Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. If you're watching the latest season of the Real Housewives of Atlanta, you already know there's a lot to break down. Georgia accusing Kelly of sleeping with a merry man. They holding Kay Michelle back from fighting Drew. Pinky has financial issues. I like the bougie style of Housewives show. I think it looks like it's going to be interesting. On the podcast, Reality with the King, I, Carlos King, recap the biggest moments from your favorite reality shows, including the Real Housewives franchise,

the drama, the alliances, and the team everybody's talking about. As an executive producer in reality television, I'm not just watching it. I understand the game. As somebody who creates shows, I'll even say this. At the end of the day, when people are at home, they want entertainment. To hear this and more, Listen to Reality with the King on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Okay, so when the idea of Hamilton was presented to you, at what point do you enter the foray as far as the Genesis at least? Well, I probably entered Hamilton the same time you did because I didn't work on Hamilton the show. I worked on Hamilton the record. We probably got the call at the same time. I worked on in the heights the show. I arranged an orchestrated music for that, but I did not work on Hamilton in the show. I just made the record. So probably we got the call.

So when it was presented to you, did you instantly feel like, oh, I'm instantly getting my second, you know, Tony and my second Grammy? Yeah. No. You know, it's funny. Flag.

It should totally be a thing. I, you know, to be totally honest, I saw an early reading of Hamilton, and I was like, I thought to myself, there's no way that, like, my Jewish grandmother or anyone's Jewish grandmother is going to pick it up, going to be able to take it all in. And I watched it and I was like, it's like, like, lyrically, it's just profound.

And so you just sort of, wow. And then, and then it, from that moment on, it just gained steam over and over and over. And I just sort of watched it become this thing. I didn't, I didn't, I didn't think that it was going to have the impact that has. Of course, you could say that about anything that's really impactful in the world. But I, I was, I, I, I didn't think people would get it or could follow it, but I was wrong. And you knew what it was. at the time when it was presented to you. Because the thing was, I believe that if it were properly

or thoroughly explained to me what it was, I would have probably made a few excuses to not. Because it was just like, okay, it's going to be a hip-hop play about the founding fathers and the Constitution. Yeah, not on paper. That's not a very premise at all.

Especially in light of the sort of can't-miss Tupac on Broadway play. That happened? Like, yes, I saw that. Saw Williams. Yeah. And Chris Jackson. That's right. Yeah, it happened. And then it went away in

three weeks. And so. But that was like a jukebox musical and the same way Jersey Boys is. It's a little different. But that's the thing. Like, to me, nothing was going to top Fela. And I was just like, okay, that's a lightning and a bottle moment. Which, I mean,

it was rather bittersweet working on But it's just that it took two of the most cynical people I knew to run to me and be like, yo, you really need to see this now. Like Tariq, Black Thought of the Roots, Tariq and my manager, Sean G, are excited about not much. I mean, even if something is real dope, those would be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's cool, it's all right. But they were like, you got to see this. and even then they didn't tell me it was a hip-hop. I didn't know what to expect, so I just sat there and noticed that this was the longest song in history.

Like, it's a play with no dialogue in it, all of what, like 10 lines, but I'm just saying, like, how in the world did, like, did you even think that this would hit jackpot or? Well, Lynn's been my very close friend for a very long period of time, and he called me while he was reading that book. the Hamilton book, which I tried to read, but only got through about 100 pages on it, to be honest.

For those that don't know, the whole genesis of it all was once the In The Heights Mania ended, LeMmanuel went on vacation with his wife and decided, I'm going to take a book with me for summer reading and takes the 900 page. The biggest book ever. It's like the, you know, the family Bible that's in every black one.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, four of those. The black family Bible With all the birth certificates in it Yes Yes Wait I'm not the only one Amen Every black family keeps the birth certificates

In the social security cards You gotta keep it close You gotta keep it close to Jesus We love Jesus And I'm in the South too So I mean you know we really love Jesus So dog I really thought that was just a Thompson

Household thing Oh nah brother But I mean but your people Like you Philly, but I mean your people We're all from the South. Okay, but there it is. My family's from North Carolina. There it is.

There is. Wow. Okay. So yeah, Lynn took this Lynn took this near Black family Bible on vacation with him. And somehow got the inspiration. It was according to him, he couldn't put it down.

Well, there's the difference. I purchased the book. All right. I purchased the book. I figured I got past the index. Yeah. Right. maybe I got past the index so I don't know but uh like how though I mean I don't know I mean he

he Lynn has always been like a sponge for all kinds of things like pop culture things he reads all of like the people magazine the eW magazines weekly and he just and and he's always reading and and learning and watching and whatever and I don't know who who knows you know I mean like when you when you know you're about to write a tune and you know it's going to be the shit versus you just like another song. He just knew he had something. But you know, the interesting thing was he Googled it because he thought that someone already had this idea. There's no way

that this story hasn't been told is something. And he Googled it and nothing came up. And so I suppose he called his agent and there was and here we are. Wow. It's amazing. How did you get started on Sesame Street? After in the Heights, I was the music director of the electric company, the reboot of the electric company.

I see. And did you have immediate fantasies of rebooting it like the original 70s show, which I feel is another stoner. Yeah, I also just had immediate fantasies of holy shit, I have a job. That was the immediate fantasy to be free. Pay my mortgage. The new electric company isn't necessarily like.

Nah, it's not. It's totally not. It's totally not. I'm so glad you verify that because I feel like Steve is like, are you really going to start? No, I haven't seen it. No, it's not. I feel like my chance.

Because you're old. The old electric company was just more, I think, of the stoner. TV you're talking about. And I think the newer one was like super sleek, super now, super fast. Someone's like three to one contact. Yeah, yeah. So let's go back to Susp.

All roads lead. Yeah, I got to say that one of the best experiences of my life was meeting that cast when they came here for the first time to the Tonight Show. And how cool they were. Again, was this like a, oh, I just have a job thing? Initially.

That wore off after a minute. You know. So you weren't impressed at the fact that here's Bob and Maria. I was. I was more impressed with the puppets because they were more part of my generation of growing up. Can I tell you something, though? You can. This is your show.

Are they right? What? Okay. Are they right? What does that mean? See, if I were to ask Fonte, you know, are they right? He wouldn't know what I meant. Oh, you mean all the puppets right or all the people?

that the puppeteer is right. I've seen them many a times when the camera's not on still in character. Oh, wow. Now, is that just so that they can execute a good job? Because even when it's long,

even when the shoot is done, they're still talking to me. It's like method acting to the hundredth power. Well, I think the thing about, to me, the thing about the puppeteers is like, there's like 25 people in the world that do what they do. Wow. And so it's this small sect of people.

that just this is their life and this is their thing and and and and in the same way it was for jim henson it was just like this is this is this is what it is but do you're telling me that jim hinson 24-7 was like well i don't know i've never met jim henson i don't know that but but with these people it's just it's it's it's who they are it's like just such a in the same way that the puppet sort of like an extension of their hand the voice is sort of an extension of the way they talk and so they just particularly i mean it happens more so with particular people who are just more whatever and Who plays Zoe on the show? Zoe?

Jen Barn. You're talking about Abby? Leslie. Leslie Carrera. She's great. I'm sure right now she's talking in Abby's voice. The other thing about it is her actual voice and Abby's voice are very similar. So that might have something to do with him.

But like the guy who plays Elmo doesn't talk like Elmo most of the time. He talks like another person, a real person. Red flag? Right. No, they're all nuts. I'm sure. I mean, in the same way, whoever would come in here and film this, be like, those guys are fucking nuts, too.

So just the past. I'm sure, yeah. I'm sure they would. I read something, you did an NPR interview and, uh, oh yeah, I read you saying, uh, sometimes, the quote was sometimes composers think that because it says in the street, they have to dumb it down. But these age children have unbelievably sophisticated ears. I think dumbing it down is disrespectful to kids.

And, uh, I don't know what, what you thought about that. Like, do you think, why do you think kids to, they are more, their ears are more sophisticated, or do you think they are more or less sophisticated than the kids back from the Joe Raposal era where you had like Pornor sisters and, you know, Stevie and all that kind of stuff going on. Are you asking me to quote on my quote? Yeah, quote on your quote.

I'm kind of jealous that Fonte did a little research on your interviews. Fonte Googled me, he told me he Googled. Yeah, I was reading up on you. I'm here like, wait, you've done interviews before? Yo, man. Just because you call it. yesterday and someone canceled and I had some shit to do. I need a nobody.

Bill. I'm there. I'm totally there. I want to be a way. I want to be up. My man is doing. Well, I mean, you've written for Sesame Street. The way I look at it is like if my daughters come downstairs and they hear what I'm writing and they don't like it, it means it's not good. My kids listen to like

Top 40 radio. They're not into kids' music and they're into hooks and catchiness and things that make today's pop music as good as it is. and that's just what kids' ears are open to now. And so when I ask people to write for Sesame Street, which is something you did not do, is they often will go to vaudeville, like the first thing. Because to people, to the general world,

like Sesame Street is like, or like some two beats shit. And these days it's not. Like kids get turned off by that just as much as anybody else does. And I think that if you can write music, that appeals to everybody, kid, parent, you, whomever, I think that that's kind of the thing that I try to push for. That being said, sometimes you should talk about this

because I feel like at least the tune that you wrote was this weird sort of conglomeration of music that totally worked and would be considered by the general ear to be Sesame Street and something that Farrell would put on his next record or whatever it is. It's like this weird, and that's kind of what I try to do every day. I thought that Faroe was adventurous enough to actually want to sing something that weird. or it would be right up his alley.

But I'll tell you something. I don't know if sing dumb it down is necessarily a valid thing. I don't know why I'm going through a phase right now in which I really respect pop music, simple music. And I don't know if it's the light of in light of Prince's passing or whatever it is, but I have the utmost respect for. for anyone that can write the most simplest song ever, and it sticks. And that's one thing I'm learning to do. Like 20 years ago, you couldn't have told me what a melody was.

Like, oh, the melody is what do you play with your right hand? You know, I was, I was, I, I'm more or less came from a vibe place. My music felt vibey. Like it puts you in a place where it's like a relaxed place or I guess people, we'll call it like Sunday House cleaning music. Yeah. But it really wasn't until five years ago that I realized, like, I don't know how to write a pop song. And now working at Fallon, where you're constantly told to write these seven-second jingles,

now I'm more aware, like, oh, we got to write an impactful song in seven-second. So I kind of, I respect the art more. So I don't know. Do you think that has influenced your recording anyway? Like you'll work with Roots or anyone? This next Roots album, I believe, will be our most focused album. As, okay, as a music fan, I feel like the way that I feel about Earthwood and Fire, and the way I feel about Stevie Wonder and way, I felt about Prince.

As a music fan, I'm on a music fan. was like, dog, all they have to do is get the same microphones, the same sound mixer board, the same instruments. So, you know, I know a lot of people say like, well, you're too close to your creation. So you can't, I know that no artists can ever go 100% linear all the time. They have to circle back and start all over again. So I think the music fan of me knows that we have to go back to step one again. Gotcha. I don't want to go back to 94.

I kind of want to go back to 90. This album is going to be very close to 96. 99. This will be the I LaDalph Things Wall Apart album that I think a lot of our early fan base has been waiting for. It's breakbeat heavy. But having wrote for the show so much, I can't ignore the education that I've gotten being a DJ

and being a songwriter on the show, which is I'm, instantly thinking, okay, where's the melody? Where's the part that, you know, my assistant will be like, oh, I remember that song. Like, it's going to be hard to ignore the education I've gotten.

Again, like, do you believe in good songs or bad songs or effective songs? Effective songs versus non-effective. Well, I think, I guess to me it's more of a thing where, for me it's a little bit of both. It's like, I think that there can be songs where like, if the only place

I can enjoy it is if I'm halfway drunk, then probably it's not, you know, I'm just saying, like, if that's the only place, if that's the only time, what song would that be? Oh, shit, name one. Like, any of the, go through any, like, playlist, like, right now on, like, you know,

wherever, hot 97, 105, whatever. But, I mean, if, like, but I'm saying, if I can only enjoy those songs in that particular setting, it is an effective song, and I can get it. But once I come out of that kind of haze, I can be like, okay, this is kind of a shitty song,

but it does work in this context. It's like McDonald's. It's like I like McDonald's. And when I want McDonald's, I fucking want McDonald's. But I'm not about to argue in someone the nutritional value of McDonald's. It's like, nigger, I'm not about to do that. You know what I'm saying? Like it's just if you want a quarter pound

to eat your quarter pound and be happy and just that's what it is. But don't, I'm not about to them argue as to why you should eat McDonald's every day. Like, you fucking kidding me? So is there a committee on session? Because I would imagine a show so well respected with all these songs that stick, I would imagine that there is a jury of people that are constantly dissecting

every creation that's on the show. Like, what's the songwriting process like? I was made it for all of the lyrics are given to me by the script writers. And prior to that, they're passed through. the education department. So they've gone through lyrically, it's gone through a bunch of different things because it needs to be grammatically correct and it needs to get across the education thing we're trying to get across. Once that's done, it comes

to me and then it's just sort of like... So for every song? Yeah, pretty much. Songs about emotions and even songs about the number two? Wow. Yeah, every song goes through this painstaking process. What red flag no-nows are there in Sesame Street songwriting? Most of it's about the character. If it's not written, like the character would say it like for example like Elmo never says I and how come Elmo and cookies talk grammatically incorrect?

It's a good question. Don't know the answer to them. You should ask them the next time you see them. I'm sure that'll least it. I still have a job. Okay. That really is weird. Yeah. Yeah, he knows his eye. That's right. Because they're three or they're five and maybe that's what kids who are three or five do. I should probably know that. My kids are three and five. Anyway. So the process. So then so then it comes to me. and then it's like, if it's a song that exists in a script,

it's how does it work narratively and what does it want to feel like and sound like? And then if it's a pull-out song, it's like, if it's for a celebrity, who are they, and what do they sound like and can we make it sound like them? And then it sort of goes from there, and then I write it or somebody writes it, and then it goes back to the producing staff,

I'm sure, similar to whatever it goes on here, and they approve it or they don't or they da-da-da-da-da, and then it's sort of, that's it. It's a lot of people. But at this point, 47 years later, Are there hurt feelings? Nothing's worse than getting the song rejected. I got to say this.

I mean, I've written 10,000 songs at this point. If one gets rejected, I just go and write another one. Like, I don't, personally, I don't really, I'm not too precious with anything at this point because I can't be, because it just needs to happen too quickly. Oh, so if you don't have it, then blah, blah, blah, we'll have it. Yeah, or like, if it comes back and I was, if I'm, if I'm so far away that they're like trashing write a new one, then I'm like, what? At this point, like, how can I be that fucking far away? way, right? But it happens from time to time. But sometimes just like it's too fast. We want it to be

slower so kids can understand it. That I get a lot. It's not hooky enough. Funny enough, you mentioned. Like if it's not a thing that A, your kid could sing back or B, they want to stand up and dance too, then it's not good enough. That's kind of the role. I want to ask man, how often for you is it that because I haven't done, I've done some TV work, some

movie work writing for stuff, whatever, and I haven't done a lot of it, but I've done some. How often for you is it that you will do a song, they send it, they reject it, and they ask you to make changes or whatever, and it actually is better. Like you sit back after it's done and be like, well, damn, that was right. Versus, oh, man, y'all fuck my song up. Like, how often does that happen for you? A few times a week.

I mean, it depends, really. So this week, I wrote this song for Titus Burgess for this show I'm working on, and it was too fast, and they wanted it to be slower. And I'm always hesitant about slowing things down because it just fucks it up. all the time. However, in this case, it came down, I brought it back a little bit and worked totally fine. So there's that. And then the same thing that happened, I wrote a song where I crunched the verse really quickly. Because the other thing about children's songs, if you listen to them is, especially with Sesame Street, you're trying to get so much across that there's a lot of

words, a lot of syllables. It's not like you're holding notes. You're not like soaring and stuff. It's not really, it doesn't really happen. So in doing so, you know, you have to make sure that every word, like you can't overlap like the end of a verse into a chorus because you can't then hear the end of the verse mix wise or not like if it's on the screen and there's two people at the same time that's another thing about sesame street it's not a lot of duets or not a lot of people singing at the same time unless it's like a chorus thing like you never hear two puppets like singing harmonizing or harmonizing for sure but like singing counterpool over they would never sing over the top of each other um you're right hey man I'm working there for a

few years I never which by the way that was a deep cut and I was really happy about that yeah But nobody knew what I was. Do any Sesame Street songs on the show, man. The old producer staffs just looking at me like, no one's going to get this. But you got it. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

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Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft, and we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast

to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. from hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode.

Listen to the Sports Slice Podcasts on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. I'm John Green. You may know me as the author of The Fault in Our Stars, and now I guess also is the co-host

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Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Auer Kohn and John Green on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're watching the latest season of the Real House Wals of my Atlanta, you already know, there's a lot to break down. Georgia accusing Kelly of sleeping with a merry man. They holding Kay Michelle back from fighting Drew.

Pinky has financial issues. I like the bougie style of Housewives show. I think it looks like it's going to be interesting. On the podcast, Reality with the King, I, Carlos King, recap the biggest moments from your favorite reality shows, including the Real House Wise franchise, the drama, the alliances, and the team everybody's talking about. As an executive producer in reality television, I'm not just watching it.

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We break down budgeting, financial discipline, and how to build real wealth, starting with the mindset shifts. Too many of us were never, ever taught. Financial education is not always about like, I'm going to get rich. That's great. It's about creating an atmosphere for you to be able to take care of yourself, and leave a strong financial legacy for your family. If you've ever felt you didn't get the memo on money, this conversation is for you to hear more. Listen to Money and Wealth with John O'Brien

from the Black Effect Network on the I'd Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I always thought that Frank Oz should have, like, a Los Angeles deal or something. He's the best. How was he able to? to utilize that voice. And he was Cookie Monster for at least 40 years.

And Grover and his piggy. And Bert. Oh, wow. He was. Fuzzy. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.

Yeah. So Frank Oz left Sesame Street like, I don't know, 10 years ago or something. And the guy who took over, his name is David Rudman. He, I believe he's also the hands of the Swedish chef, which I think is a pretty cool thing. Really? But he does Cookie Monster and Baby Bear and a bunch of other stuff. But, yeah, when we record with him, sometimes if it's too low, he can only last a certain amount of time because that voice is so insane.

How many voice characters are still on the show that were there? Is Carol Spinney? Carol Spinney is the last one. He still Bill Bigbert? He does the voice of Big Bird and the voice of Oscar. Oh, wow. Yeah. And last year.

Am I allowed to ask how old Carol Spinney is? he's a male yeah yeah all right males we're allowed to ask right you guys i think he's 80 something good god seriously and yeah the the best line about carol of which there are many is um like a few years ago or five or six wherever he said uh i don't think i can do big bird and roller skates anymore which i thought was a pretty good line that's true wait he was also the body of big bird yes for the entire span of the show oh wow and just stopped doing it since i two years ago or a year ago so now someone someone embodies it and he does the voice same thing with Oscar the Grouch.

Wow. Yeah. Pretty amazing. There's some great... 80-something. Yeah. Man. Like, are there voices insured or...

I don't know. That's a good question. Yeah. I have no idea. They should be. I was saying, but Frank Oz... Do you have a backup bird just in case? There is.

There's a backup bird. Is he good? He's great. He's also... That guy is Matt Vogel. He's in the electric mayhem band. Who's the guy who plays the bass in the electric mayhem band? I'm blanking.

Shannon Tweed. I actually I actually figured out why Cookie Monster doesn't speak grammatically correctly. Why? Is he so racist? Gramatically correctly?

Right. He's really? How's that? Cromatically, you're correct? He's a monster. Oh. He's not like a real, you know, person.

He's crazy or whatever. Can we just have thoughts from Steve? Man. Steve is a star. Steve is a star. He's going to be the star of this podcast in about three months. He's going to get his own second. He's the mom.

Okay. That makes sense. That makes sense. I should probably know that. I was going to say, I was thinking it was diabetes because he used all that sugar. You thought you had the sugars? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, that is that, yeah, the sugars. That is another thing that goes into the black Bible. Can I tell you something? All right. So Steve and I met. Steve was an engineer at Electric Lady Studios. So doing the whole. Soul Quarian Renaissance of what

Voodoo and Erica's Mama's gun and all the common records That's how Steve and I Work with each other so when he left Electric Lady and I hired him as my full-time Engineer in Philly What? Start in 2006 I'm still thinking about Cookie Monster I'm sorry

Shannon tweet you should do an episode where the Cookie Monster Learns how to speak correctly We did one where he didn't eat cookies Oh, wow. He was a veggie monster. People were like up in arms. Yeah, I didn't like that. I mean, not that I watch it regularly.

Yeah, that's his legacy. You're the only friend I have that watches Sesame Street just for the record. Well, anyway. The cookies don't even go in his mouth. That's right. He crumbles them up and he throws him. Like, he doesn't even eat any of it. I like that you're telling me this.

Like, I don't know. Thanks. Thanks, Steve. Anyway, so when Steve. came to Philly to work full-time for the roots. His entire diet became my diet. So every day, yeah, do I even need to finish? Yes.

Steve is one of the first white people I know that had the sugars. Ah, damn, Steve. Cookie Monster's fine. I'm fucked up. Wow. You let Questlove get you. Seriously, one year, well, there was a soul food church, like down the street from the, there was a soul food church

down the street from the studio so we ate there every day like clockwork I knew churches were bad news man so it's kind of the equivalent what was the McDonald's thing for 30 days oh supersized who's size yeah so I mean he ate soul food at least like four months in a row

and by the end he was done he had insulin shots wow I'm spres up his sister's Steve had the sugar Steve You got the sugars. How'd you recover? You just left?

You don't recover from it. You just keep going with it. Ah, damn, Steve. Steve's in the black Bible, man. Yo, you're a fish in the black Bible, Steve. You got diabetes. That's like the blackest disease of it. Like that and the gout.

Like, no one quite figures out what the gout is, but it's just you don't want that shit. I got all that shit. Oh, damn. Welcome. You ride and die, Steve. Literally. I'm sorry Ride

Ride to that You know what One day One day we're going to listen To this episode Like When we're like Professional

And everything I'll be dead In memorial It's a memorial It wasn't just Fried Chicken That came In diabetes

That takes It takes longer than four months To get it too You know But You're also

So you got to take insulin shots now? You still do it now? Yeah. You still do it? Whenever I eat, I have to take insulin. And then I take insulin like a one that, a different kind that helps you 24 hours a day. Try and keep it like.

There's no coming back from it. Not yet. They're working on it. Don't worry. Wait, did I really do this thing? Like, I feel bad. It's probably like an Oprah moment right now. Go ahead.

They're working on it. Like your family going to be like, you did this to him. No, I didn't tell them that you did this to me. All right, so we can just take this off the podcast. Have we talked about music at all? There was the black Bible. There was Steve's diabetes.

Great show. Man, what were we talking about music? I feel like we both be talking about something. This is what we dried out all of our resources. Diabetes. What's the? Steve has diabetes. That was the last one we talked about.

Some depressing shit, that's so hot in here. I feel bad for my man, Steve. Don't pass out, Steve. Keep it together. Yo. Because it's such a depressing disease. Like, I got an uncle with, no, dude. Like, yo, like, dude.

Because the thing is, is, okay, I'm going to tell you the tragedy. But you have his empathy, Steve. No, no, no, for real. You got my empathy. And I'm going to tell you the tragedy in this. It's because, like, Steve, like, you're a skinny guy. So you ain't even got the fatness. to go with the diabetes,

so it's not even like you earned it. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's like you're not even, you know what I'm saying? It's like, it's like I know a chick that's like a fat vegan

and it's just like, honey, why? Why? Yeah, like it's just, you know what I mean? Like, why? Like you, if you go, if I'm gonna be fat, I'm gonna have everything that comes with it

and I'm gonna earn the fatness. So to be a skinny guy with diabetes, that's fucking miserable, I really, you have my sentence. And to think about every time I sit down to eat a meal, I gotta think. about what I'm gonna eat.

I got an uncle with diabetes. Thanksgiving, he can't have sweet potato pot. And it picks him off. He can't do it. Like, it'll be like, we'll be calling EMS. All right, we're going to blue smoke after this. Yeah, right straight there. At least, you know.

Yeah, I got to earn it. Oh, boy. Okay. Weird segue. Music. So I play a jam. So you've earned a Toney. I have.

I work straight. in the Heights in 2008 and I won a Tony was a wild night and the first time I ever won an award and it was great. Do cast albums get Tonys at all? No. They get Grammys. So I'm not going to get a...

No, you're not going to get a Tony. I'm not going to get a Tony. Are you going? Are you playing? Oh, I'm going and I'm bumerrest in that stage when how many people are going to get on that stage? A hundred. You know, wouldn't it be hilarious if the voting Academy just assumes that Hamilton

is going to get best playing so they decide like let me just give it to something else I mean I thought when we were so when we did the Grammys and they gave the award on the stage at the Richard Rogers and I was the only person in LA

for a moment I was like what if Seth MacFarland walked up there and is suddenly presenting the best cast album that no one gives a fuck about and he goes and it goes to not Hamilton I mean the page and that it would have been unbelievable that would have been such a great moment

and I would have been the only person there in L.A. Be like wow Yeah, that would have been like a Steve Harvey at the pageant moment. Right. The winner is Hamilton. I'm sorry, folks. I got to be real. Yeah, I got to be real.

That was shit. Yo, I think the way that the roots won our first Grammy was that moment because it's like, I've heard your theory on us before. What was the roots first Grammy? Because y'all were up against like, it was like Dr. Dre. Dr. Dre and Snoot. Oh, was Jethro-Tolomatelica. Go ahead.

It was. Just kidding. I did not compare the roots that Jethro Tullin. Shut the fuck up. Go ahead. It was. I totally did.

He totally did. Wait, wait, wait, wait. I can't read that. Even on the red carpet, Moby was like, yeah, I'm really excited. I'm going to present the, you know, the best rap award or whatever. And they were like, well, who are your favorites?

I don't know. Could be Dr. Dre. It could be M&M. Could be Snoop. Oh, man. I really hope it's bust around with Janet Jackson. I love that song.

I love those guys. Matter of fact, even if they're not the winners, I'm going to say that Buster Rhyams and Janet Jackson is the winner. So that was the-Mobie. So that was the energy that he put-Coh-Bow-Bowie. Vegan. Skinny vegan. He probably has diabetes, too. That was the energy that he put on the red carpet.

So meanwhile, we already lost two Grammys to M&M earlier that night. And so sitting in the audience, I was like, well, I know we're not. not going to win, so it's whatever. And suddenly, I didn't, now, I didn't hear what Moby said from the stage, but when they called her name, I was like, holy crap, like we won. How'd this happened? It's like that scene in Boogie Nights when Don Cheadle goes into the donut shop and just, in all white, and everyone gets shot and feels except. He walks off with the money. He makes it and starts his shop, his stereo shop. Yeah. And Dr. Dre, and Snoop versus Dr. J and Eminem versus R. Kelly and Puffy versus Janet Jackson and Buster Rhymes

and then The Roots and Eric Abbottie. And somehow you won. Y'all were the last one standing. I felt it was only that specific situation in which we were allowed to win. Now, I went home the night to watch the victory tape. And then Moby was like, and the winner is. Well, in theory. Oh, wow.

the roots and... Did he say that? He said, the winner is, in theory, the roots and Erica Bhattah. Wow. Now, I didn't know what in theory meant? So I was like, what does in theory mean? That means you didn't deserve to win a mirror, but you're technically the winner. Yeah, oh, man.

And I was like, huh? That's some shit. Can I ask a question about that song? Because we were talking before about hooks and pop music and things like that. Which one? You got me. You got me. Is there something to be said that the roots is biggest pop success?

is one of the only songs you have that has, like, melody and stuff in it, that has the hook of hooks. I mean, I think we got lucky. I mean, plus you can't discount Scott Stewart, like, of all the keyboard players that have been in the roots. Scott's right hand is automatically programmed to think of what the melody is. I mean, at the time, what was the number one communication device, two-way pages? Yeah. Yeah, that was kind of, yeah, that was Scott's whole theory was

Can you program it on the two-way? It's not a hit. It's not a hit if you can't put it in a two-way page. And I was like, hmm, I never thought of that. But then, I mean,

in the light of Neptune's beats with, you know, just simple one-note chords. It felt, at the time, it felt like, oh, that's just lazy songwriting,

whatever. But now I get and understand what melody is. But yeah, it baffles me every day that we've never had a, a dance jam or a dance hit.

or, you know. Now, I will say this. I was always question. I want to ask you this. I was always one that, you know, like Bill was saying, you got me being the one that I had melody. One of my favorite, still one of my favorite melodies by y'all to this day is complexity with Jill or phrenology.

Right. Why you got me and not that one? I mean, aside from one getting a push or, you know, whatever, or one being pushed as a single, because complexity wasn't a single. It wasn't a single. something that was hard to sing. In my heart, I felt, in my heart I knew, I think I wanted to make cool filler.

I think I made great filler. And even the artists that I like, Stevie Wonder Prince and the Beatles, and like, you can judge a really good artist based on their filler. Like, I like their filler more than I like the singles. Gotcha. Bill, do you spend a lot of time working on lyrics?

Like, is that something that you, like what comes first, you, is it music first, lyrics first? Like how you're producing now, right? Yeah, I mean, I always get sent a page of lyrics for the most part when I'm working on like TV shows and things like that. But then when I'm not, I'm not, I hire lyricists. I'm not a lyricist per se.

I think for me, the music always comes first. I agree. Or the hook. Like, I'll write hooks first and then go back. I agree. I agree. That's the same way I am, too. For me, it's like I was an English major in college. So for me, writing a song, like the hook is like your thesis statement.

And then your verses. are like the paragraphs to support the thesis statement. So it was very much. My process is the same way. See, I'm asked backwards. You do versus first? You do versus first? I'll even go deeper than that. You got to do beats first.

First of all, I'm so non-singles thinking. I think of the album. And when I'm thinking of the album, the first thing I work on are the interludes. Because to me, I don't know, you remember that feeling of getting Pete Rock's records and you hear these interludes? Look, man, I remember buying, I didn't break the law for main ingredient.

I didn't. That was like, I actually bought out. You know, break the law. This is a fun. Take a little who breaks the law. This is a fun of the law. Breaks the law episode. Okay, the last one I can, last record I remember breaking the law for.

I broke the law for, I had a homie that worked at a record store. And I broke the law. Now, it wasn't best buy. It wasn't best by. It was another record store. I'm not going to name because I don't know if the statute of limitations is up on this shit. But it was a record store And so

He would just let me came in And I gave him like $5 And he would just let me like grab Whatever fuck I wanted One of those records Don't you miss those friends Yeah Man, listen

Don't you miss records? Right Let's talk about it One of those records was Okay Computer And that was my first Introduction Radio And ever since then

I was converted But um But nah I remember main ingredient I bought main ingredient And honestly Main Ingredient was a record for me I didn't like

I got a love Like, I heard the single. I was just like, yeah. When Kanye said that's his favorite song? No, that's, no, yeah. I'm like, bro, that shit is, no. Everyone's frowning in this room. Right.

Even the people had never heard. Everyone's like, hmm? Yeah, I hate it. I got a love. But I still bought the record. I was like, let me see. And oh, my God. But yeah, the interludes, you're right.

The interludes for that record were better than a lot of beats. For me and so brother and the main agreement. Same brother, too. Same thing. Yeah. And to me, like, I feel like, I feel like I work ass backwards. I think of the interludes first, and then I match the song to that interlude. And then you work on the groove, and then you add the verses, and then the hook is the afterthought.

Like, I work completely backwards from, you know, from how the average, that's how I used to do. Now I'm thinking of, what's your hook? Like, what's the thing that's going to stick? Which I almost feel like a dirty business. man for doing that like hey you got to make a living brother but i mean i think i think too i mean what you're doing to dj i imagine it would be kind of hard to not be informed by that you know because i remember one time i went to one of your i think we did the thing over it it was at the do over in london we were in london for the olympics right and some of the stuff you played were records that i would not listen to like in my car or in my life but they totally killed the party and i mean

were good records, but, you know, they worked in that setting. What I spend and what I listen to are just night, night and day. What do you, well, you don't DJ, do you? No. Okay. Like, what is your go-to I have to listen to to get me through the day? I don't know. People ask me a lot.

I don't listen to a lot of music. I'm the opposite of you. So you're too immersed in music to? I feel like I go downstairs to my office at 9 a.m. and I come out at 6 a.m. My ears are just shot. And I just, when I'm in the car, I listen to, like, the news or comedy, most or top, or top 40 because I feel like so often than not when people are asking me to write something,

they're like, oh, it sounds like the new but tune. So I have to know what that is. Reference it. I got you. And for my kids, because they know them and I should. So, yeah. Because I do the same thing. I'll listen to, like, talk radio or NPR or something, like, just to kind of cleanse or

just kind of decompress, you know what I mean? You say if you go downstairs in your office, do you work from home? Is that kind of your home base? Yeah, I kind of move around. It depends on what the day it is. Like, it's either Sesame Street in Queens or our studios on Fifth Street where we record the music or I'm at in my basement.

So do you have like a home studio just set up, just kind of doing anything? Yeah, what's up? It's easy. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me.

Clipper Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast,

or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest, The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galko, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for

to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar, this is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12.

and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. I'm John Green. You may know me as the author of The Fault and our Stars, and now I guess also as the co-host of The Away End, a brand new world soccer podcast. I'm Daniel Alarcon, a writer and journalist, and John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first World Cup was Mexico 86.

I was nine years old. I watched every game, and I fell in love. On our new podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. For us, Soccer. Football. Is a story we've shared for over 30 years since Daniel was the star player on our high school soccer team.

Very debatable. And I was their most loyal and sometimes only fan. I love this game. I love its history, its hope, its heartbreak, and above all, it's beauty. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Auer Kohn and John Green on the IHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're watching the latest season of the Real Housewives of Atlanta,

you already know there's a lot to break down. Gorsha accusing Kelly of sleeping with a merry man. They holding Kay Michelle back from fighting Drew. Pinky has financial issues. I like the bougie style of Housewives show. I think it looks like it's going to be interesting. On the podcast, Reality with the King, I, Carlos King, recap the biggest moments from your favorite reality shows,

including the Real Housewives franchise, the drama, the alliances, and the T, everybody's talking about. As an executive producer in reality television, I'm not just watching it, I understand the game. As somebody who creates shows, I'll even say this. At the end of the day, when people are at home, they want entertainment. To hear this and more, listen to Reality with the King on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

On a recent episode of the podcast, Money and Wealth with John Hobriant, I sit down with Tiffany the budgetista Aliche to talk about what it really takes to take control of your money. What would that look like in our families if everyone was able to pass on wealth to the people when they're no longer here? We break down budgeting, financial discipline, and how to build real wealth, starting with the mindset shifts. Too many of us were never, ever taught. Financial education is not all right. about like, I'm going to get rich. That's great. It's about creating an atmosphere for you to be able to take care of yourself and leave a strong financial legacy for your family.

If you've ever felt you didn't get the memo on money, this conversation is for you to hear more. Listen to Money and Wealth with John O'Brien from the Black Effect Network on the I'd Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. How do you find your balance as a dad and or is there even a balance? I don't know. Do your daughters control the radio yet? Oh, yeah. They will pick certain songs and ask to stay on certain channels.

And my one daughter will move the dial and stuff like that. She knows what she's doing. So who controls the music in the household? My kids. It's pop radio all the time in my house. What's the most adult intellectual thing they listen to? On pop radio? No, just, I mean.

Yeah, you ain't going to find much. I was listening to Beatles at five. Yeah, my kid, so. But it's also the parents' responsibility. I agree with you. Do you let them choose what they want to listen to? Yeah. I don't put it on them.

I haven't yet. Why? But it's interesting because I did not have parents. Both my parents are doctors, so clearly we have a lot in common. And my parents listened to, like, smooth. My dad listened to, like, Dave Sanborn, like, smooth jazz all day long. Oh, wow. And, like, for real.

and I was a saxophone player and I was like, no. And then, and, uh, yeah, like super smoothy. But they, they didn't know music. They still don't know music. They have no idea. So like when I was a kid, all the cool kids listened to like the Beatles and Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd.

And like that was a thing in the very white suburban neighborhood. I grew up on Long Island. Calm down a fucking second before you judge me. And so then it did not until later. Same here. What are you talking about? I'm not judging you. I live the same life.

You're shaking your head. because you feel for me. Okay, okay, my bad. I'll tell you why I was shaking my head, but go ahead. So not until later was right at high school's ending and college was starting where it was like, this is what you have to open up your head a little bit. It's not just about these particular things. And so then it became more of a, like a quest as opposed to something being given to you.

You know, you have to go and get it. And I thought the bad part of it was cool because it became a thing of discovery. Like, I didn't get into the Beatles until way after I should have. And so when I finally did, I was. at a different place musically that it meant more to me and I was interested in very different things. I think you do have to kind of brainwash a kid.

I mean, at least I do. I mean, you got to brainwash them because, I mean, they're going to get brainwashed from other people. So at least, like, when my boys... Were you punished for music down south? I was not punished. The only time I can remember being, even like something, like,

kind of getting words at me, my granddad, I had Bigger and Defer, L.L., the second album. I had Big and Defer. And I'm bad comes on. And I had it playing, and he was in the room. And, oh, my God. I ain't met a motherfucker who could do that yet.

That one L lyric. I had the same experience. Oh, my God. It was just. Same thing. Yeah, that one. You let it play? I let it play.

But it was too late. Like, I caught like, oh. I was on the other side of the earth, and I ran faster than Moses gun. And Carl Lewis, and I ran. Yeah Yeah Yeah, it was man And my granddad

From there He was that tape at You listen to Talk about motherfuckers And my grand And yo And I'm thinking about this now My granddad

Because I know There's a link here My grandfather was a huge fan of Nat King Cole That was all he listened to So If it wasn't Nat King Cole He wasn't trying to fuck

With none of that shit If any rappers Any black men But were you subjected To listening to it I was. My granddad, every Christmas, he would bring out the Christmas album. And he would just sit us in the den and you just had to listen to Nat.

And that was it. It wasn't no talking. This is not up for discussion. This is not a debate. No UTFO, no. Nah, none of that. No UTFO. Oh my God.

No Dana Dan. None of that. None of the Christmas records. It was all Knack and Cole. My jazz education was kind of also ass backwards because, jazz was punishment in my household. Oh, wow. Like you were punished?

Yeah. Like, I feel like my parents felt as though jazz music was a way to exercise the prince demons out of me. So whenever, I mean, my, my, my public telling of, of the amount of times I've gotten punished for owning 1999 is super legendary. but they would break the record and then it would be like no stereo for two to three weeks

which is like a lifetime to me and the only thing I was allowed to listen to was Christian radio and jazz music Wow And so usually like So it's like eat your vegetables kind of thing Yeah so all my knowledge and my associations of all those

Coltrane songs Alabama and Love Supreme and the entire Coltrane plays the blues record is based on just the fact that this is real music, not that Prince. You know, I mean, dad just thought like Prince was a dude that wore a diaper. Oh, wow. I mean, he saw the

Midnight Special thing. Yeah, okay. No, the Midnight Special when he's doing, I want to be 11th. Oh, okay, yeah, yeah. You know, boy, don't you ever wear no diaper. Like, and you know what, man? And the thing you say that is like,

I guess that's kind of where I'm at now with my kids because my oldest son, he is in the music. But the thing I will say about him is that he listens everything. He listens to everything. He'll listen to like Young Thug and Lil Yadi, like all the XXL cover dudes. But then the freshman cover dudes, he'll listen to them. But then he'll listen to the Beatles.

Like he'll listen to. And that was the thing. Like when we were talking earlier, you said the kids are more sophisticated. because I think what it is now, like, kids now, they ain't got to pay for shit so they can listen to everything. Like, I remember buying music or stealing music back in my day. Like, you had to make a choice.

You know what I'm saying? Even a choice of what to steal. You couldn't fit all the shit in the bag. It's like, I got to make a choice all of them to steal today. But back then, but now, like, kids are today. Wait, let's have another Fronte breaks a long movie. Tell us another story, Farn. Well, no, I mean, you couldn't.

You ever get caught stealing this shit? No, I never did. I never did. But it was certain, because they switched it up. They switched it up. You got caught stealing. Silent Bill has the story. Name the record.

I got caught stealing when I was 14 from Target. I had. From Target? Wait, how old are you? Target just came out like last year. Right. I'm 36. All right.

This was 94. Every Friday, I would go to the mall. And I had like this big Charlotte Hornet's starter jacket with the pocket in the front, the flap. Oh, he was mental. Or bad. I had this small pair of citizens. You know how they had the little plastic thing.

The plastic around it. So I would take the CDs to the handicapped bathroom, cut the plastic thing off of it, open the CDs, toss everything in the trash, and just walk out. It was like a real thief. Oh, yeah. Handicap bathroom.

You took it too far. No, no, no. That shit lasted for a good year. Oh, man, I didn't even do all that. See, all I did was like, I just, I didn't even have, like, I had like a little key. Like my key, my mailbox key in my, that went to my, in college, like, you get you a little mailbox?

Right, right. mailbox he was mad sharp so all i would do is just you know beforehand we would just like take him and you still in college yeah this was like i think it's now last week right i'm saying but it was i didn't have i didn't get my first computer until 2003 four so like oh that was when i've i got my computer man look i know right if i was really on it i should have got one but my last one i remember like you just opened a little joint because then they started changing it and they would put the sensors inside the CD cover. So then what you do, that's when I had the key.

You just take the key and then you just get the CD out and then you just leave the case and put the case back up in. So if I was still in a sterile, it's like, Everclear, fucking, you know, everything but the girl. You go to jail for Everclear? No. Hell no. I'm just saying that was, well,

I'm not getting the rest of Everclear. But it was like the E section. You know what I mean? Who was popping at that time? It was like, Rhythics. Right, it was all that. See, okay, so what did you get caught stealing?

Well, how did you get caught, first of all? Okay, I got caught because somebody came into the bathroom, like, right after I did and saw all the shit that I had thrown away in the trash. All the, okay. And they snitched? Yeah, they snitched. Was the store employee? I don't think it was a store employee.

It was probably like some woman and her child or whatever walked in. The titles of the CDs I stole were. Ill Al Scratch his first album. Wow. Which was an EP? It was like, where my homies, like, eight times? I know. It was like, where are my homies?

Where are my homies? Here they is. Where are my homies at? It's El Al Scratch. Keith Murray's most beautifulest thing in the world. Okay. TLC's crazy, sexy, cool. All right.

And the one that is clown-worthy, Mariah Carey's Christmas album. Oh. Wow. No, that's not clown. Right after that King Colt. Right. Now, the cover, though, of the... Shannon.

That's why he's told that. Shannon's sweet. Well, no. You're in the VHS section, Steve. You know what? Actually, I stole a cassette. I forgot. I used to work.

One of my biggest names in life was that I got fired from Sam Goodies. You did? I didn't. I don't know. I don't know. It's like it's such a no-brainer, right? I should still be working at Sam Goody. Right now.

But, uh... Can you imagine? Yeah, it was January of, of 89. And three feet high and rising by Dayla Soul just came out. And I took the promo cassette from the store. And I guess I got that's not stealing promo cassette. Well, it's only one copy of it. I guess the manager wanted it.

They didn't call me. They didn't call me out on it. it, but, you know, it's just like, all right, we're letting you go, I'm here. And I didn't say anything. I just walked away, defeated. Then I started the roots. Then I started the root. One single tear falls from his fate.

I say three-bound risings worth getting fired over, though. Yeah. That's, that's, if you're going to get fired, that's one. I wasn't bitter, but when we did have it in-store for our second album, do you want more? I denied the store doing it in store there instead I did it at Tower Records. That's how bitter I was. That's how bitter I was.

I just wrote the music for a Tower Records documentary, not just it was a long time ago. The Colin Hanks one? Oh, the Hullin Jones is that dope. That was good. That's the one music documentary that you're not in. That I did a five-hour interview for Colin Hanks.

That I got put it on the cutting room floor. But you know that if you go to IMDB or the first face, I think that's there. It's like Grohl and then you, but you're not even in it. You got Hanked. I'm not bitter, though. No, not at all. I didn't see the movie. Like, is it that it's only tower employees that were in it or?

No. I think Elton John was like the only celebrity. No, but Chuck D's in it as well, right? I think so. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. He might have gotten on the cutting room floor, too.

How is it? Is it good? I haven't seen it. I mean, but I spoke for like five hours and nothing. And ain't in usual? Nothing was usable. Damn. My feelings were hurt, man.

It's okay. Well, we've learned a lot here today, ladies and gentlemen. This can go on forever, but... I got my work cut out for me tonight. Yeah, you do. And you have to give them a cut tomorrow? No, no, no. Oh, okay.

I'm about to say shit. No, it's... Bill wants to, like, prepare this. years in advance. No, Sean wants to prepare everything years in advance, which I'm cool with. Right, I know. You guys are prepared.

See, I keep responsible people in my life because I am a slacker at heart. Smart. I feel you, bro. Yeah. All right, well. I'm moving this whole responsibility thing. And you know what?

And it's very profound that you say that. Because I've been trying to explain that people. Like, it's like, because they see you working hard. And they're like, man, you're going to get it. You work really hard. And it's like, the reason I'm working hard is because I'm trying to get it. You would know I, I've officially got it when you motherfuckers never see me again.

You know what I mean? That's when you'll know I've made it. Like when you don't see me tweeting, we don't see no Instagram, when all that social media shit is over. Oh, son, there's no such thing as disappearing. You don't think, well, you might get to do this in your life.

Oh, the two phone? Actually, it's four, but yeah. God damn. So why? So why would you need four phone? Which one is the whole phone? And that's Questlove Supreme, ladies gentlemen.

That's the fifth phone. On behalf of our new inductee, Bill Sherman, yeah. Bill Johnson, Steve Mandel, and Franticle of Coleman. And yours truly, Questlove,

we thank you very much. We pray that you come back next time. God willing. Next Wednesday. Good night. You go, we come back next time. Yes. See you later.

Watch love Supreme. a production of IHeart Radio. For more podcasts from IHart Radio, visit the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast,

The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok's podcast network on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft.

And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. from hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider,

you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcasts on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slice of Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. I'm Daniel Alarcon, and this is my friend.

He's much more famous than I am. I wouldn't go. that far. But I'm John Green, co-hosted the podcast The Away End with my old friend Daniel. On our podcast, the away end, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. Together, we'll find out

why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Auerkone and John Green, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This financial literacy month, we are talking

about the one investment most people ignore. Building a business around the life you actually want. It was just us. Making happen whatever he said was going to happen and then it happened. On Those Amigos, entrepreneurs like America Sam and Joe Huff get real about money, taking risk, and while your dream might be the smartest move. At the end of my life, what am I really going to care about? And the conclusion I came to is what I did to make the world a better place in whatever way. Listen to those amigos on the IHare Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. On the Cino Show podcast, each episode invites you into a raw, unfil,

conversations about recovery, resilience, and redemption. On a recent episode, I sit down with actor, cultural icon Danny Trail, talk about addiction, transformation, and the power of second chances. The entire season two is now available to bench, featuring powerful conversations with the guests like Tiffany Addish, Johnny Knoxville, and more. I'm an alcoholic. And without this group, I'm going to die.

Listen to the Ceno show on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHart podcast. Guaranteed Human