The Rachel Cruze Show - A Conversation About Money and Minimalism (with The Minimalists)

Episode Date: July 5, 2021

Embracing minimalism can dramatically transform your money habits and your whole life. In this episode of The Rachel Cruze Show, you’ll learn: The money conversation you need to have TODAY How minimalism can help you get out of debt faster (with The Minimalists) Where investment properties fall in the Ramsey Baby Steps Resources: Zander Life Insurance The Minimalists Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Now, realizing that, oh, I got everything I ever wanted just to realize that everything I ever wanted wasn't actually what I wanted. This isn't the American dream. This is the American nightmare. And I think the new American dream is to be debt-free. Hey, guys, welcome to another episode of the Rachel Cruz Show podcast. I'm so glad that you're here. Well, in this episode, I'm going to be talking to the minimalists. Oh, there's some of my favorite people in the entire world because I love talking about the benefits of living.

with less, and they have a new documentary out, so I cannot wait for you to hear from them. And then I answer a question from Liz, who sent her question through the Ask Rachel email and is wondering where investment properties fall in the baby steps. It's a great question and one a lot of people have been asking. But first, let's talk through a tough money conversation

that no one really wants to have, but is so necessary. Conversations around this subject, around money, are often more valuable than money itself, which is why today we're going to talk about one of those conversations that can be kind of, ugh. And it's about talking to your parents about their finances. Okay, here's why this is an important conversation, because there will come a day where you need to know what's going on with their money and what their wishes are. So even though it feels very taboo to present the subject to them, it's better to do it now,

while they're in good health and here, then if you're in the middle of a crisis and you're just trying to piece everything together. So I've broken down this conversation in four steps to make it hopefully as smooth as possible for you. Number one, just prepare for the conversation. If I were you, I would make a list of things that you want to cover with them.

Like if you have no idea their situation, there's probably going to be a lot to ask. So you want to ask about a will and a state plan what kind of debt they have. Do they have investments? Do they have a retirement plan? Do they have life insurance? Do they have a plan for assisted living? Do they have long-term care insurance? Are they aware at all about all the things that pry on older people to get their money in, like, identity theft schemes, all of that? So there's some big basis to cover with them. So make that list and prepare. Number two, when you're having the conversation, be clear, be humble, and be kind.

When you're meeting with them, your goal for the conversation is to talk about their future because you want to make sure that everyone is on the same page. And you don't want to come across like a know-it-all, hey, mom and dad, we're on baby's up four, five, and six. You need to know what's going on. No, this is a very humble conversation because this is doing it for their honor, right? You're doing this for them. So keep your tone open, very heartfelt, very kind, be slow in how you talk to them. Don't be aggressive. And one of the things, too, is you can just call out that, hey, this is kind of awkward. This is a really awkward conversation, but it's really important. And so just saying it on the front end, if you feel that awkwardness there, just call it out.

And also, don't make them feel judged for their financial decisions. So if they're sharing, sharing information with you. Obviously, don't be like, well, that was dumb. Why'd you do that? Or, ooh, okay. Like, be honoring for where they're at financially, okay? And also, make it sure that they know that you're not just after their inheritance. We're like, how much money are you leaving me? No, that is not the point of the conversation. The point of the conversation is making sure that they are taking care of in the later stages of their lives. And when something happens, because it's not enough, it's a win, that their wishes are granted. that their legacy and what they want in this part of their life is honored. So also, when it comes

to the conversation, listen more than you speak. So this will show them that you are caring about them and ask questions like, hey, what do you envision for your life in the next year, the next 10 years, talk to them about their life? Number three, ask them about their current plans. So ideally, they've already had some things in the works, but maybe they haven't. So again, ask them about a will and an estate plan. This can be a really touchy subject. So what you really have to make sure of is that they have a will. That's first and foremost.

And if you're extra good on the communication side of the family, like a bonus would be that you know and the whole family knows what is in their will. So it's not like this dramatic movie scene where it's like the reading, of the will and no one knows what's going on. Ideally, everyone's on the same page. But again, that can be a different conversation, but just know, you need to know that they have a will. And if they don't, you really need to emphasize that they need one, especially if they have a spouse that is going to be still living, making sure that they are taking care of. Also, make sure they have term life insurance. So if they are out of debt, if they have a fully funded

emergency fund and no one is relying on their income anymore, then at that point, they are self-insured and they don't need life insurance. But they do need term life insurance if a spouse is still dependent on the other's income, social security, all of those kind of things. If they still have debt, if they have little savings, all of that. Now, if they have a whole life policy, not great because they're really overpaying for life insurance. And it's it's not in their best interest. So they can take that whole life money and buy a much better term life insurance policy.

So term life insurance is way more affordable. So once they switch to term life insurance, then they can cancel their whole life policy. Now, getting a quote on term life insurance is really easy with Zander insurance. All you have to do is plug in their information at zander.com, and they will shop around for them.

They don't have to do all the digging themselves. Zander will find the best rates for them, and best of all, Zander does all the work for free. They make it so easy and convenient and affordable. So go to Zander.com to get your free quotes. Also, you want to talk to them about debts and paying off debts, getting them out of debt. Because what happens when you're out of debt,

it gives so much more freedom, so much more peace, so much more options for the family. And encourage them to do this without preaching at them. I'm like, oh, mom and dad, no, no, no. Because sometimes parents don't want to hear them. hear from their kids. That's a thing. But lovingly say, hey, this is what we've seen. This is probably going to set you up really well if we start working on paying off your debt and helping them and saying, hey, we're here to assist you in celebrating with you and encouraging you, all of that.

You also want to talk to them about assisted living. So listen, this is kind of an awkward one because, of course, no one wants to leave their house. No. But you may want to talk about options and ask them questions like, hey, can they get help around the house? Can they live with you? Is there assisted living facilities where they already know someone? You can really reframe this conversation if they don't want to talk about it. Just to ask the questions. Like, know where they're at. That's the goal. Because some parents feel guilty of spending their life savings on care, but they don't need to fill that. It's their money. So it's okay. Also talk to them about long-term care insurance. If they're older than 60, they need this. According to the

Alzheimer's Association, the estimated cost for care in the last five years of life is $367,000 for people with dementia and $233,000 for those without. And most health and disability insurances will not cover the costs. So a lot of Americans spend $140,000 out of pocket for long-term care on average. So this insurance will really help you with the costs so you're not to pay this crazy amount out of pocket. And the average annual cost for long-term care insurance, it's a little expensive, but again, it's worth it. So it's around 1,700 to 4,200 for men, 2,700 to 7,200 for women. So it's a little bit more of a complicated subject, but again, you want your parents taking care of, and they need this in place if they're older than 60. And I've

done a lot of research on this topic. So I will put the link in the show notes, or you can just Google how to talk to your parents about money by Rachel Cruz. And number four, ask for their advice. When you're having this conversation about their situation, just ask like, hey, I want to learn from you. Honestly, people that are further in life than you in anything, whether it's career or parenting or marriage, whatever it is, they've lived a lot of life. So ask and just, just say, hey, I want to know what I can learn from you. I mean, conversation starters can be like, what is one thing you did with your money that you are most proud of? If you could do anything different with your money, what would it be? Ask them with the biggest financial risk they took,

and it paid off. Like, what was that? What did that look like? Ask them what you should teach your kids about money. You can even ask, hey, mom and dad, what do you wish for me and my finances? Like, getting their answers to these questions is always interesting because it's, It's going to help them reflect on old memories, speak into your life, and they really get a sense of the legacy that they are leaving. It can be a really rich, interesting conversation. So again, it's kind of vulnerable. It's kind of like out there of like, oh, I got to talk to my parents about money, but you really do. Reaching the conversation can be very awkward.

I understand. The more you know and understand what's going on, the easier it's going to be for you as the adult child to help make decisions for them and their legacy. and there's nothing more valuable than that. So hopefully that helps in guiding all these crazy things we have to talk about on this show when it comes to money, but some important ones. I am so excited because some of my favorite guests, the minimalists are here.

Guys, welcome back. Thanks for having us back. You're also my favorite people. I talk about you in my book, half the time on this show. We're always talking about the minimalist, so I love having you here in the flesh. It's good to be here. Thanks for being here.

Yeah, right. Okay, so for people that are kind of new, to your message. Obviously, the minimalists gives a brief overview of what you guys are passionate about, but what is minimalism? Well, it starts with our stuff, right? We have all this clutter in our lives. The average American household has 300,000 items in it. That'd be great if it was making us happier, more content, more joyous, more peaceful, more tranquil, but you know it's doing the opposite. More stress, more anxiety, more discontent, more overwhelm, we're doing more, more, more and more. In fact, we're pursuing more than ever, and we're not stopping to consider,

how might your life be better with less? And that's really where minimalism starts with us, with that question, understanding the benefits of simplifying, of letting go. We start dealing with that external clutter, then we look inside, and we say, you know what, I've got psychological clutter, mental clutter, emotional clutter, spiritual clutter, career clutter, relational clutter. We're able to start dealing with that once we've cleared the excess physical clutter in our lives. Yeah. It's an amazing thing, though, because I know we've talked about it on the show, but even doing the challenge. Yeah, the minimalism game.

Oh, yeah. How'd they go for you? It's amazing. It's amazing, y'all. Because in my new book, I talk about, like, quality versus quantity. And I lean quantity. I lean having, like, 20 pairs of earrings that I get to choose from, you know, all of that. That's, like, naturally where I bent is.

And I say on that scale, you want to have that moderation because if you go too much on that side, obviously you end up with so much. And I'd say I'm so guilty of that. doing the game helped me so much. Awesome. Like clearing it out. And even just this idea, I mean, you guys talk about it all the time, but it's true of just that your stuff is not going to make you happy. No, did you make it through the full month?

I did, yes. That's awesome. I know, I was telling you all earlier, though, I think going pictures, I did on social media. Like, I tracked it. And I think one time I had, like, a bobby pin, as I accounted for, like, one of the things that I threw away, and everyone got so mad at me.

I was like, that's not a thing. I was like, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Well, look, we make up the rules. Here's how the game works. For those who are watching at home, they don't know about this minimalism game. You can find The Minimalists.com slash game.

It's also at the end of our new documentary, Les is now on Netflix. And basically it starts off at the beginning of the month. You get rid of one item. But you team up with someone. So a friend, family member, co-worker, decluttering's boring. We make it a little more fun,

a little more challenging with some friendly competition, right? And so beginning of the month, first day, one item. Second day of the month, two items. Third day of the month, three items. Starts off really easy. Get you that momentum you need.

By the middle of the month, though, You're hitting day like 18. You're like 18 things. I've got to find 18 things. Tomorrow I've got to get rid of 19. Yes, yes. That's awesome. You made through the whole month.

Yeah, I did it. It's like 500 items almost. Oh, yeah. It's amazing. It was amazing. Okay, so why do you think? Because it's so common sense, right? We know this.

We chase after stuff. It's part of like the American culture. Why do you think it's just not clicked? Like how is it that people just, it's not like, oh, it's like, man, it just doesn't stick. You know, common sense, unfortunately, isn't too common. I know, I know. And I was stuck in that boat. I mean, when I first heard about minimalism and Josh introduced me to it, that's the first

thing I thought. I was like, oh, this is common sense stuff. But here's a philosophy that helps put these common sense things into practice. I think one of the major aspects is we see over 5,000 advertisements a day. And it's really crazy because, like, even drug commercials, right? Like the United States and New Zealand are the only two countries you can advertise drugs in. And then you go to other countries, don't even allow billboards. And it's here in the United States, because we allow all those things,

we see so much advertisements that it seeps in. It gets into our subconscious. And we all have this crisis of meaning. We want to be significant. And advertisers know this, and they play on it. So what they do is they put a commercial together or a campaign together, and they're like, hey, you have this problem. It's okay, you have this problem because guess what?

we have the solution for this problem. So those advertisements just, I think, is what really helps us or makes us disconnect from that common sense stuff. Where minimalism, what I really appreciate about it, is how it helps filter through all that noise. Okay, so tell me about the new documentary. Less is now. I loved your first documentary.

So great. So what caused you guys to do a second one? What's it about? Tell me everything. So Ryan was just talking about the drug commercials. You know how they always talk about the side effects? I wish they do that with all the stuff that we consume as well. Hear all the side effects of the stuff.

And really, that's what this film is about. It's about starting over with less because we've unfortunately accumulated all of these side effects. As Dave calls it in the film, Stuffitis. We're suffering from Stuffitis. We've accumulated so many things. And so what we want to do is show people how they can start over. So in the film, we have five different experts.

We also have 30 different everyday minimalists. We go into the homes literally, and we see people how they're profoundly affected by the first film, but also how letting go. has changed their lives and allowed them to start over and move in a new direction. Yeah, I feel like our first film was a nice broad perspective of minimalism. And we had, you know, different experts to really talk about the problems, fast fashion, environmental. I mean, there's a ton of problems out there.

I feel like with less is now, we really came up with a solution for people to face all of those problems. So good. Yeah, because it can be overwhelming to say, okay, I'm going to start this kind of this new way of looking at life and decluttering. getting stuff out of my life to actually have the margin to enjoy life. And I think a part of that, though, for people on the symptom side, they go and get all this stuff. And in this line of work on the show, we talk about debt a lot and the amount of debt that people are in and how that burdens them and takes their joy, their, I mean, their options so much

in life when they are going into debt for these things. So the side kind of all goes hand-in-hand. So for you guys in your line of work, I'm curious, how do you see debt play a part in people's consumption and their life and their joy? Yeah, we definitely prescribe to the same philosophy as you all as far as, you know, there's no such thing as good debt. And, you know, conversely, there's no such thing as bad debt. I mean, really, debt is just debt. And the thing is that debt has all those side effects.

That side effects may cause anxiety, stress, discontent, depression. Loss of freedom. Yeah, loss of freedom. So, you know, that's really what drove me to really start to simplify and pare down and really just try to regain control. of my finances, which really helped me regain control of my time. So I went to Josh, and I saw that he was living a different life. He seemed to be happier. I'm like, hey, what's going on? He told me this common sense stuff. And then I just had this lightballed moment of like, oh, yes. Like, I could totally live a much more meaningful life if I didn't have all this debt. And I did the worst thing. Like, I had a bunch of debt. I had a really good job,

though, so I could pay for all those debt payments. I get a promotion. And you would think I would be like, great, I got a promotion, maybe I could pay off some of this debt. In my mind, I was like, okay, now what debt payments can I afford? That's right, that's right. Yeah, yeah. Your lifestyle increases with the promotion. Yeah, so I was just on that hedonic treadmill, and, yeah, debt played a huge role in the discontent and an oppression that I was going through. Yes, and I know that about your story. So talk to people that do have that shame, they have that guilt, even anxiety. Yeah. When it comes to money, specifically of debt, specifically because they just are going deeply in debt for things they can't afford to think,

okay, this is just how I'm supposed to live. What would you say to those people? Well, there's a philosopher named Renee Gerard. He came up with this term called mimetic desires. And all that really means is what you really want isn't what you think you want. Right now, what you want is what everyone else wants. It's mimetic. It's mimicking everyone around you. So realizing like, oh, wait a minute, all these things I thought I wanted and I went into immense amounts of debt for. Personally, I had almost half a million dollars worth of debt. It took me years to pay it off, right?

Now, realizing that, oh, I got everything I ever wanted just to realize that everything I ever wanted wasn't actually what I wanted. This isn't the American dream. This is the American nightmare. And I think the new American dream is to be debt-free. Shame, you mentioned shame, it's different from guilt. Guilt says I did something that I don't feel good about.

It's incongruent. Shame says, I've done it over and, over and over, now I'm that type of person. Well, the only way to break the cycle then is what, to change my action so that my short-term actions align with my long-term values. So good. And I love what all this is pairing together because I'm like, you know, we're a whole person.

So the way you parents, the way you do your money, the way you are at work, I mean, you are one person, right? And how much that affects your life and your emotions. And money is part of that. Like, it's going to affect you on a deep level if you don't have control over it. your stuff just owns you and you're kind of that rat in a wheel. Yeah. So for someone watching like, man, this all sounds so good.

It sounds so refreshing, you know, what are one or two steps people can take tactically to say, okay, I'm going to kind of enter this world of minimalism where my stuff doesn't own me anymore? What does that look like? Well, we talked about the 30-day minimalism game, so that's a great place to start. Because what that does, it doesn't like solve all your, you know, cluttered problems, but it gives you a really nice start. It gives you some momentum.

And that's really what people need. I know this is what I need to be successful with anything. I kind of go into. But before anyone does that, I would suggest that they start with this one question. How might my life be better with less? Because we have to understand why we're decluttering. Because we all know how to declutter.

Anyone watching this, they could go to their closet and take everything out, throw it in a dumpster. But if they don't know why they're doing that, that decluttered closet is going to become cluttered again in the not too distant future. Yeah. And in addition to that, I would say set up some boundaries.

We might call them rules. On our website, we have a free e-book. It's called 16 Rules for Living with Less. And in that e-book, what we do is what we try to do is create rules that aren't really strict. They allow for some wiggle room if you want to adjust them. They're rules that work for me and Ryan, and you can adjust them for your own taste. I'll give you a few examples. One's the seasonality rule.

Pick up any item in your house. It could be your couch. It could be that old sweater in the back of your closet. It could be an old toaster that you haven't used in years. Ask yourself, have I used this in the last 90 days? If not, am I going to use it the next 90 days? Be honest with yourself. give yourself permission to let go. It's okay.

We call it the 90-90 rule. Another rule is the spontaneous combustion rule. So if you pick up some sort of item, say it's a sentimental item, your grandma left it behind this giant quilt and you just can't par with it. But it feels like a burden. How would you feel if that spontaneously combust it right now? I'm not telling you to set it on fire, but how would you feel? And if you realize like, oh, I'd feel really upset, well, then maybe it has some sort of

meaning to you. But if you feel a relief like most people would, Maybe it's a sign It's time to let go It's so good You guys, I'm about to go home I'm going to go home to closet again Every time I hang out with them

I'm like jeez I'm going to go back through my house I'm sorry or you're welcome I don't know Yeah no yeah It's all of it It's all of it Well I love the message you guys

I love you all personally I think you're just so wonderful And everyone make sure to check out their new documentary on Netflix Check out the first one too Just binge it all Because it's all so so good But less is now

Make sure to check it out And where can everyone find you guys It's real simple They can go to the Minimalist's dot com and they could find everything there from our podcast, the books to our YouTube channel, everything. So fun. Well, I'm having them stick around because we're going to film one more episode after this. It's going to air next week.

So get ready for part two. Thanks, you guys. Thank you. So my favorite episodes is when I get to talk to you all and coach you through your money situations because everyone is in a different place, but a lot of people have such similar situations to other people watching. So it's fun to bring you all in on the show. So today I have Liz with me. Hey, Liz. Welcome to the show. Hi, Rachel. I'm so happy to be here.

I'm so glad you're here. Okay, where are you calling from? I'm calling from Palmer, Alaska. Way far away from me, Liz. Were you born and raised in Alaska? What brought you to Alaska? I'm just curious. No, we are a military family, so this is home right now. It's been home for a couple of years. A military family, is that right? Yes. Wow. Thank you. Thank you, guys, for all you do. That's huge.

And you guys just started really this money journey, right? You plugged into Financial Peace University. So kind of tell me where you guys are, what got you into this. Yes. So we actually, my husband and I just started a Financial Peace University online because we are trying to get settled for retirement in the next couple of years. So we just finished baby step one. We got that one. Yes. And we are actually going to start working now this month on Baby Step 2. So that's what brings me to ask the question today.

It's awesome. So I'm curious, in Baby Step 2, how much is debt do you guys have? We have $40,000 in debt right now. That's without counting the debt that I'm going to ask for today. Yes. So, yeah. So your question revolves kind of around the. this baby step two. So what is it? So we have a home that is not a primary home. We own that home for a little over nine years now and we are planning on keeping that home as a rental property. So the question is, and me and my husband, we've been going back and forth with it, should we include that mortgage debt on baby step number two or we should wait? Should we wait until we get to Baby Step 6 and get that mortgage payment

and our primary home mortgage payment all together on Baby Step 6. Yes, that's a great question. Well, my answer is going to be actually answer C, which will be a little different, but I first want to ask you before we dive into it, where is the rental property? Is it near you guys? Is it back?

Okay. Is here in Alaska also? It's in another town. Okay. It's in another city. Yes. And you guys primarily, are wanting to keep it specifically just for a rental property, not to move back to that home

or anything, but just more for an investment. Is that what you would say? Yes. Okay. Just an investment. So my answer, you're not going to like me, Liz, because you're going to be like, no, I know. What I would recommend, honestly, if it's not your primary residence, is to sell it. So this would be in the same vein as if you had any kind of investment that was not retirement. So if you just had a mutual fund, for instance, that was not tied to retirement, we would say cash that out, put everything to Baby Step 2. So having this second mortgage, basically the second house, at this point in the baby steps, we would say to eliminate it, actually sell it, which I know hurts your heart,

this piece of advice, but it's to throw everything at it. And I will say to eventually come back to that because real estate is an incredible investment. I'm coming from a real estate family. My dad loves real estate. My husband loves real estate. like rental properties paid for real estate is some of the most fun investment, I think, besides just like putting money away right in a 401K. I love the idea of real estate because it is an asset that will go up in value.

And there's just so much, there's interest to it, right? It is fun. So I am not against rental properties. I am not against real estate. In fact, I love real estate beyond traditional investing just in the market. But where you guys are right now, honestly, my recommendation would be to sell it. considering you're not upside down in it, that there's kind of no nothing attached to it. But to have the goal to say, okay, well, once we are completely debt-free, even your primary

mortgage, to go and that baby step seven is to build wealth and become incredibly generous. And part of building that wealth can be to go back and cash flow real estate investments at that point. But I know that probably hurts, doesn't it? That's probably not what you wanted to hear. I'm really neutral. I didn't know what the answer was going to be. I know my husband is really passionate about it. And it was our first home, actually. So there's still memories in there. For sure. So, but yeah, if that's what we need to do, that's what we need to do because we're not doing this itch. Yes. We're doing the whole thing all in.

Yes. Thank you. Yes, absolutely. And I think what's hard to is we become so attached to stuff, and rightly so, right? And especially a home. I'm like, that is. Like, I'm our first home. I'm like, that's where all three of my kids were born. So I brought them off home from the hospital. It's where you, we are first married. I mean, all of it, right? All these memories flood in to specifically, even your home. So there is this level of attachment to it. But also to say that there's, there are other, there's other options. There will be other things that you're going to get to plug into to still scratch that real estate. itch, if you will, in that investment piece later on in your journey. But I think for you guys right now to be able, how much is it worth, do you know off the top of your head if you guys sold it? I think my husband said it's like about $3.90 right now. And how much do you guys owe on it? 210, I think.

Yeah, for sure. 210. Yeah. So, yeah, it is. It's carrying totally just another mortgage, right? I mean, if you said $5,000, I may just slip into baby step two at that point. but usually it carries a hefty mortgage is what I find for most people just, yeah, just like you guys, for sure. So I think the best bet is to take, yeah, to sell it, let go of it, put all that extra cash that you guys have,

because that's going to propel you really forward if you're going to have that much equity in it. You'll be able to pay off all your debt, fund your emergency fund, really push toward retirement because I know you guys, that's why you started Financial Peace University is for this retirement, right? So getting that piece of your life settled away and full. funded, all of these things are going to line up. And I think it may take a level of stress off you guys that you may not even realize you're carrying. When you're carrying a whole other mortgage, a whole other home, at this point still with debt and $1,000 in the bank, it kind of could be a level of relief as well. Yes. Sounds actually smart. Like the smart thing, the smartest thing to do

at this point. So thank you. Yeah, we've been debating this whole thing, me and my husband for a couple of weeks now. Yes. So that's why we asked the question just to get the best advice on it. So thank you. Well, I'm so glad you asked, and thank you for asking because, again, everyone's at different points in their journey, but this comes up a lot. And a lot of people keep their first home.

You know, I mean, this is so common and so normal. So I know your question has helped so many people out there, hopefully to give them permission and the freedom to really jump forward with their baby steps. So Liz, thank you so much for your time, again. And coming on and asking your question, I so appreciate it. Thank you so much. much Rachel. We appreciate everything you and your family do for us. Oh, well, thank you. You guys are killing it. And I can't wait to hear once you're debt-free and comfortably in retirement.

It's going to be so great. So awesome. Yes. And if you guys want to go on a journey just like Liz and her husband, make sure to check out Ramsey Plus. You can do a free trial if you go to Ramsey Solutions.com, sign up for Ramsey Plus and get plugged in because these videos, this content, this coaching, I mean, everything around your money journey, Ramsey Plus is going to have for you. to walk alongside you guys because it's a really hard journey. It can be discouraging at times, but also it's encouraging so you can be plugged in with other people and know what's going on for you and your family. So again, go to ramsysolutions.com and start your free trial of Ramsey Plus.

And if you have a question for me, then go on any of my social media channels, whether it's Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, ask your question, and you can be like Liz coming on in the show and we can talk through your situation. Well, I hope that Liz's question helped you guys because, again, I know real estate as we're recording this is just insane and investment properties or like all the rage. People are talking about it. So hopefully that gave some clarity, not just to Liz, but for you guys listening. And I want to thank Joshua and Ryan for coming on, the minimalists. Oh, they're just amazing.

And I love always chatting with them. And I hope you guys enjoyed this episode. Thank you so much for listening. And if you've not hit that subscribe button, make sure to do it. that and if the spirit leads, you can leave a review. And remember, as always, make sure you take control of your money and create a life you love.