The Rachel Cruze Show - Are These 4 Insecurities Destroying Your Budget?

Episode Date: October 14, 2019

So, in this episode of The Rachel Cruze Show, you’ll learn: The insecurity that 90% of women feel ashamed of and which industry is profiting the most from it How to keep insecurities from ruining your marriage How one woman’s spending habits led her into $40K in debt—and what gave her a wake-up call Sponsors pay the producer of this show, The Lampo Group, LLC, advertising fees for mentioning their services or products during programming. Advertising fees are not based upon or otherwise tied to any product sale or business transacted between any consumer or sponsor. The following sponsors have paid for the programming you are viewing: Resources (everything mentioned in this episode): Zander Insurance Les Parrott’s website The New York Times article on honeymoons Show Notes Page Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Guys, I'm so excited. I am giving away a $100 Amazon gift card. That's right. Okay, I've got a new survey just for you, my podcast listeners, and I would love your feedback. I want to know what you want to hear more of on future episodes of the podcast. So all you have to do is text the word podcast to 33789. That's podcast to the number 33789. You'll get a link to the survey, and if you complete it, you could win a $100 Amazon gift card. So make sure to check it out. If you want to eradicate insecurity, you've got to get a lock on what I call your profound significance. My friend and relationship expert, Dr. Les Parrott. The happiest people on this planet are content. And so the comparison thing, you're just asking for trouble. You're playing with fire. I was trying to fill a hole. I was about $40,000 in debt.

Money's usually the symptom of other things. But you have to get to the root and the problem. I always knew I needed to get it together. I just couldn't. Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the Rachel Cruz Show podcast. I'm so glad that you're here. I'm really excited about today's episode. It's one that I've been wanting to do for a while now, and it's a great topic to dive into.

And it's all about the motivation behind why we spend money. Now, you may not be aware, but certain insecurities that we have can affect the way that we spend our money. So in this episode, we're going to be talking about those insecurities in several areas of our lives. I'm going to be talking to my friend and relationship expert, Dr. Les Parrott, about insecurities people have in marriage. I'll also interview someone who fell into the trap that so many of us do, where she was spending thousands of dollars to impress other people. And we'll talk about the number one insecurity for a lot of women out there.

So let's dive in. All right. Listen, we all deal with this in a variety of ways. Some people buy houses. They can't afford to impress people. They don't even know. or go on a shopping spree to buy clothes to make them feel good about themselves. There are so many different motivations behind our spending, and we just need to be aware of them.

And we all struggle with insecurities. It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with us. It's actually very normal. But normal can drain our bank account. For instance, I read an article in the New York Times last month. You guys, it was insane. And it's kind of an extreme example of all of this, but it was a true. story. There was a couple. They went on their honeymoon, and they came back from their honeymoon,

and they almost got divorced because of it, okay? Because the entire time on the honeymoon, the woman in the relationship there was like freaking out about every sunset, and she had to get in the ocean, she had a pose. It was like this whole vacation, this whole honeymoon full of nightmares for her husband. Her husband said it was one of the most miserable weeks of his life, because he didn't feel like they had a honeymoon. He felt like they were chasing around sunsets to have pictures of something that was not even going to be published in a magazine, but for her to post on Instagram. Now, again, kind of extreme, but there's a lot of people that post a lot of pictures on their honeymoon,

which I'm not saying that's terrible. You guys, it got to the point so bad they got home and they almost got divorced. They said it was for a number of reasons. I was like, yeah, because she's probably a little bit, you know what I mean? But, I mean, it just was terrible. And then there was another couple they highlighted in the article who lived in London. And one of their favorite places to go was like the countryside of England. And so they planned their honeymoon there.

And they could afford 10 days there, 10 days, have a great honeymoon and a place they loved. But she said that when people started asking her where they're going on their honeymoon, she told them where. And everyone was like, oh, they just weren't impressed. And because of people's reactions, she changed their honeymoon destination to go to Italy instead. and they could only afford to go five nights, and they stayed at this, like, terrible Airbnb that didn't even have air conditioning. And it was like a loft.

So the way the ceiling was and the way the bed was, they said they couldn't even have sex on their honeymoon because they couldn't even sit up in bed. Guys, all because of other people's expectations and what she wanted to portray on Instagram. And she even said that she would look at restaurants around their Airbnb and look at the menu. to figure out, okay, will the food be really pretty that I can post on Instagram?

And that's where I want to go. Like, that was her motivation behind what restaurant she was going to on their honeymoon. Okay? I mean, it's just, it's crazy where we have gotten in our world with social media. And it's so hard because everyone's highlight reels are so visible, right? And what it can do is amplify our own insecurities. So what you have to focus on is what really matters in your life. Okay? What really matters? And a lot of that comes with being content. Being content with where you are.

This is going to be huge because when you're not content, your insecurities are going to flare up and more than likely you're going to end up spending more money. So that's one reason is I wrote the contentment journal. You guys, if you've not checked it out, make sure you do. You can start reading for free. Make sure to click the link in the show notes because finding contentment is extremely important in this process. All right. When it comes to being a woman, one of the biggest insecurities that we have, it's a whole whole thing. of this. Okay, I just want to interrupt for a second because you heard some sound effects there. Yep, things change when you're pregnant. Okay? And I'm super confident in that and I'm totally okay with that. So that was me slapping my pregnancy hips because they are alive and well people. So if you're watching the video version of the Rachel Crewe show, you would have seen it. But for all you

podcast listeners, you're probably thinking, what is that sound? So I just wanted to clarify, jump in here and say, yep, that's what it was, just so you know what the sound effect was. So hope you enjoyed that. Yep. All right, back to the episode. Body image to skin, hair, clothes. Gosh, we put so much pressure on ourselves for our outward appearance. Bray Brown did a study and found that 90% of women, 9 out of 10 of them, feel shame about their body.

Women spend over $3,700 on beauty products every year. And one of the most popular apps for your phone lets you actually edit your face for selfies. Man. Okay, here's the deal. There's nothing wrong with taking care of yourself. Okay, but are you spending money for the wrong reasons? Listen, being prego here and having two other babies, this being my third, you know, things happen to the body when you grow a baby inside you people. And I was looking at this maternity website. It's a very popular one. I'm not going to say it because I don't want to shame them. But they have a clothing line for after the baby, and it's called bounce back body clothing line. I was like, I'm sorry. What if my body doesn't bounce back? What if it changes forever? Like, are we okay with that? And for some people, we're not okay with that, which makes me so sad. Like, we celebrate celebrities who are walking around in their bikinis, like two days after having a baby, and it's on the news. And like, that's what celebrated. So can we just say out loud people that that's not normal? And people that do that, I mean, good for them. Good for them, sure. but they have a team of people, okay?

And so it is not normal. Doctors even say it takes a year to get your body back after your baby. If it does come back, sometimes it doesn't. And we're all going to be okay with that, okay? The beauty and health industry is a billion dollar industry. So there is every kind of cream, pill, product to make you feel better about yourself. Now again, taking care of yourself and being healthy, there is nothing wrong with that. If anything, I would encourage that.

It makes you feel better. but spending money for the sole purpose of keeping up with others will not fix your insecurities. In fact, it's going to continue to magnify them. I mean, we could do a whole series on this topic. I could bring you experts. We could talk about all of this. But just to speak, as your money BFF, your money frontier, I don't want you spending money based off of those insecurities.

And sometimes the best way to check your heart is to check your bank account. So I'm going to challenge you. go back and look at last month's transactions and see if there were times that you spent money, either because you're insecure in a situation or maybe because you were comparing yourself to someone else, it might be a really interesting exercise. It's a good one. I did this. It's kind of convicting. I'm not going to lie. It's really good. You need to do it. All right, coming up next is a guest who was comparing herself while draining her bank account. And this is a great interview, you guys. You're going to hear from Lacey and her story.

and it's kind of an emotional one because it really does touch on the heart behind why we spend money the way we do even when it's unhealthy at times. So I hope that you can gain some motivation from her story and some encouragement because it's one that I think a lot of us can relate to. I felt confused.

Like I was missing something, missing the boat on something. God's calling on my life. I was about $40,000 in debt. I was trying to fill a hole with things, with material things, handbags, jewelry, shoes, sunglasses, watches, and I would purchase things realizing I didn't need them and then spend the entire weekend returning all of them. But the feeling that I would get would be happiness, kind of that gratification for a moment,

and then I'd all of a sudden feel the weight of the world back on me. I realized that I wasn't living the life that God wanted me to live, and it was something that I needed to dig into deeper. I needed to know kind of why I was feeling that way, what were things I was trying to suppress the childhood stuff, you know, needing to people please and impress people and be perfect and look perfect. When I started financial peace, I felt a peace. It was a peace that I literally cannot. I cannot put into words. I felt the Holy Spirit wash over me. My money started to change. I was in control this time because I was submitting it to God first.

It's all his anyway. So I'm just, I'm a steward of it. Lacey, thanks for being here. Thanks for having me. Yeah, and sharing your story. So your story is, it's amazing. So unpack a little bit of it for me and just kind of how your spending habits have where it kind of began and where you are today. So it started when I was when I was younger, but I think it got hot and heavy when I was about 18 or 19 when I got my first credit card.

I remember actually driving in a car that was probably less expensive. than the sunglasses I had on at the time. So, yeah, that was an eye-opener for me. But it started young, and looking back, it was a lot of just trying to fill a void and trying to impress people. Yeah, absolutely. So were you around, like your friends and kind of like the group you kind of hung around, would you say were pretty, like, affluent? Like, you felt like you had to keep up disappearance because of the people you were around. Does that make sense? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I would say yes. Yeah, absolutely. Well, it's an issue. I feel like we struggle with so many people, right, in this culture, in this world today. I mean, it's constant. And so for you, though, racking up a lot of credit card debt, 40,000, right? And you kind of hit a point that you're like, okay, something has to change emotionally in your heart and financially. You're like, I don't want to keep doing this over and over again. So tell me a little bit about that. Like, what was that breaking point for you? I would say when I was at my hometown church in Houston, he was doing a,

a relationship series, and for some reason, that all aligned. It was about becoming the person, the person you're looking for is looking for. Good old Andy Stanley. That's good, yes. But that actually opened the door for the financial bit. I always knew I needed to get it together. I just, I couldn't. And, of course, I would feel bad about that.

Then I would spend more. Then I would return everything. And then I would, it was a lovely cycle. Yes. So when you were in that cycle, what would that look like? You'd go out, you'd go shopping. You said you return stuff. So, like, walk me through just that.

I'm just curious what that looked like for you. Yes, I would after work on a Friday, I would be feeling a certain way. Now that I look back, I know what it was, just, you know, feeling bad about that day, feeling like I didn't do enough. I needed something to fill that void, that hole. And so I would go to good old T.J. Max and Home Good Goods and Target where I'm not allowed to go anymore. Actually, no, I can go there now. I can go there now because I've got strength. That didn't have before.

That's right. That's right. I would go and I would spend money on things that I could afford because, I mean, I made plenty of money, but I really couldn't afford, didn't need. And then realize in the morning I had to wake up and return all of it. And I would go out of my way to go to different stores that weren't those stores to return because I was embarrassed. Yes. I was embarrassed. Yes.

Yeah, I felt ashamed. No, absolutely. I mean, and I think that that's such a great picture. It's such a great example of what we're. we deal with in our world today. So take like even the money piece out of it. But the emotional side, like we really do believe that stuff is going to make us happy and that it is going to fulfill us. And I just have this new thing. And I say that to myself sometimes. I mean, I can fall into that. And so it's so funny though, because I'm like, you know that's not true. Right. You said within a few

hours, you'd be like, okay, that was it. I need to return it now. It's like the high is over. And so talk to me about people that they're kind of like scratching that itch for themselves. constantly, and they're constantly buying things. What would you say to someone? But that's kind of their story. Well, I would say that God's going to be the only thing is going to fill that hole. That's the truth. And then everything else aligns, literally, everything else aligns. So I would just, I would say that they're not alone, that there's so many other people out there like them. I know I felt like that, that I was the only one and I was, you know, embarrassed. I thought I had it all together. But behind closed doors, I knew that I knew that I didn't.

I, you know, lie to myself and tell myself certain things. And come to find out, the older I got, I realized all those other people were going through the same thing I was. They were dealing and doing the same thing I was, playing apart, you know, filling a void. And some people filled it in different ways. I just, I needed to look apart and be perfect and have that certain thing, but still be independent. I paid for it all myself.

Built up all my debt myself. Paying off all my debt myself. But yeah, it's been a journey. It's been a beautiful journey I wouldn't take back. Absolutely. Well, on this show, I feel like we talk a lot about the tactical side of money of like paying off debt and getting on a budget and getting control and all of that. But money is usually the symptom of other things, right, of deeper issues. Like, kind of what you were saying.

And like, I feel like we all have tendencies to medicate those things. But you're exactly right. Like your relationship with Jesus, it's like that's the foundational one. foundation, yes. It is. And then once you become healthy in that sense, and even just understanding yourself, like, did you go to counseling and stuff? Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes. On my budget, it actually, it says headspace. I love that, yes. But the self-care aspect of, like, digging in, because, again, sometimes you can just treat the symptom. Yes.

But you have to get to the root and the problem. And that's, that the problem's different for everyone. And everyone looks different. And yours happen to be just spending money to medicate in that way. But for people out there, I think that's just such a good reminder of, like, dig into yourself, right, in your story and know where that comes from, because once you can solve that route, like you're saying, and then you get these tactical principles on top of it, then you can start to make progress. Yes, yes. And it'll take a minute, but the journey is actually

part of it. You know, you might look at it right now and say, I've got so far to go, you know, I just, I don't want to have to do this. I don't want to have to do that. You know, this is going to make me feel better for right now. And that's what I want is that quick fix. But boy, oh boy, there's nothing like the feeling I have right now. So good. And the hard work that it took to get there, right? And you would say it was probably painful. Mm-hmm.

Doing some of that work, some of that soul searching and like figuring out from your story and all that. But on the flip side, I'm like, the pain is so worth the freedom on the back side, would you say? Absolutely. Absolutely. So I wouldn't take anything back. But the hardest points in my life, you know, when I was most depressed, I was bobblehead, I was. I just was not good. I wasn't at a good space in my life, and I would fill myself with all kinds of, you know, material things. And when I really kind of stopped, and I said it was my church back home that started at all, but got that foundation, like you said, and then everything else just kind of fell into place. But digging deep has been, it's been interesting. It's been hard, but it's been worth every moment. It's so good. I'm like the hard stuff. Yeah. But then on the flip side, I'm like, but the depth and the joy that you experience in life when you can live at that level.

And again, all these other things in life start to make sense. Yes. And you start to pull the strings. Yes. Yes. So for you again, it was the shopping and the debt that you racked up. But man, you're able to solve that because you're able to solve your heart in the problem today, which is amazing. Exactly. So getting tactical. So you had $40,000. Yes. You decided to go to Financial Peace University. Yes. Yes. Can tell me about that. Oh, gosh. A legit godsend.

I mean, I tried to do it back home, actually, but I wasn't in a very good space to do it. I just couldn't wrap my head around it. And he opened up financial peace, like, opened the doors, angels sang all the above. My financial peace leaders, like, I feel like they probably did a song and dance. It was amazing.

But I couldn't come up with a better name for financial peace than just that financial piece, because it's exactly what it gave me. And from day one, you know, speaking about debt and consolidation loans and stuff like that, not changing the behavior. It was just, it was more therapy for me. And wanting to do it God's way, that was the big thing. It was, Holy Spirit just came over me, and it was like a peace, you know, when you're trying

to make a decision in life and you don't know now being obedient to God, am I doing what I'm supposed to be doing, but you feel that peace that washes over you that you literally can't explain, just like the piece that I feel just with my finances in general now is this piece I really can't explain. But it's something that I want everybody to feel. Yeah, so I'm grateful for the opportunity. Yeah, that's so awesome. And you've paid down how much debt so far?

$7,200. $7,200, girl. You're like killing it. Yeah. Do you feel the attraction? I do. I do. I do.

Yeah. It's kind of bananas looking back. Yeah. Yeah. And actually, just a fun side note is also in my very first budget. I got a giant check in the mail that I shouldn't have gotten. Wow. Yeah.

And it was great because it was during Christmas. and my mom and dad were here. So we got on our knees and prayed and thank God for it because it was his way of just, you know, blessing me for being obedient. A hundred percent. Yeah, and he continues to do it. So, yeah. So good, Lacey. Yeah. Well, you're amazing. Thank you. Absolutely amazing. And again, I think your story is just, it's a perfect picture of the idea that, again, money can be the symptom. And we want to fix the symptom. We want to get the money in order. Yeah. But the root of it and the behavior change that comes. out of it is almost a bigger light, right?

I mean, yes, absolutely. It's almost a bigger life change. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. You're doing it, girl. You're killing it. Come back on when you're debt-free. Oh, I will. Do the stream.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll celebrate. So awesome. Well, thanks, Lacey. Thank you so much. So good. Oh, you guys, wasn't Lacey great? Seriously, I love it.

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what you need. They'll give you a huge piece of mind for such a small amount of money. So find out for yourself and go to zander.com and get a quote today. All right, coming up next is my friend and relationship expert, Dr. Les Parrott. Now, if you're not aware of him, he's brilliant, you guys. I mean, he has spent decades studying marriages. He actually was one of the co-founders of helping create e-harmonie. Yeah, insane. And so he is so smart when it comes to this time.

topic. So we get to dive in and talk about insecurities that might be costing you in your marriage. We talk about social media in marriage. I mean, we cover so much ground when it comes to relationships. So check out this interview. Les, thanks for being here. Always good to be with you, girl. It's always fun. Super fun. We're usually on the road. I was going to say, we've been outchanging the world trying to help people in their married life with their money, right? I know. It's been good. It's been good. Okay, question for you. This episode is all about insecurities and how our insecurities can sometimes cause. I'm probably not qualified to talk about this. I feel very insecure about this. Speak out of your own experience.

Yes, I can actually. We all have insecurities, right? Yes, I know, totally. Nobody's immune. No. That's just a part of life. But yeah, how does that impact? Marriage, because you're the marriage expert. So, like, when you're counseling couples or teaching or studying on the subject, like, how do you see that affect your marriage? Well, you've heard me say this so many times. But it's a lot of, it's a lot of, it's a marriage. worth repeating in my mind, because your marriage, really any relationship, but your marriage can only be as healthy as you are. Therefore, one of the most important things you're ever going to do for that relationship is work on you in the context of it, right? And so that means you have to have this, for me, it all begins with the foundation of knowing you are loved. If you want to

eradicate insecurity, you've got to get a lock on what I call your purpose. profound significance that God loves you as if you're the only person on the planet to love. St. Augustine said that. And it's, you know, if we don't get a lock on that, we are continually trying to find our significance in places that won't ever give it to us. And that's what perpetuates the insecurities. Yes. So if you want a healthy marriage, you've got to have two healthy people.

And that means really realizing that the relationship, yeah, we can help each other on the path to wholeness, you know, is iron, iron sharpens iron, but that person can't do that work for me. I often liken it, you know, sometimes when I'm giving a talk on this, I'll have a couple come up as a volunteer and have them lean their shoulders in against each other and then put their heads on each other. And the whole audience, without me prompting them, will go, oh, you know, sweet, right? Because it looks so romantic, yeah. And then what happens? So I call that an a frame relationship, right? And especially in the dating world on college campus and stuff. And you'll see students that literally walk around like that all day long, right? They're just

lean in on each other and they go to the study hall together and to the, you know, dining hall together. And what happens in a relationship like that when one person stumbles, the whole relationship gives way? Because there's, ready for a big word in psychology, it's an enmeshed relationship. Okay. Teach us. It's not, yes. Oh, great one. But it's not, you know, a disengaged relationship. That's not healthy. But it's overly dependent. You don't want overly dependent. You don't want, you know, this kind of independence where you're doing. You want interdependence. You want interdependence. And that's where you find two health, that's the intersection of two healthy people's lives in a marriage relationship. So insecure. That's why I love this,

the show that you're doing. It's so vital to so many things in our lives. Totally, yeah. But certainly when it comes to marriage, you just can't have a healthy relationship. until you get a handle on that. And like I said, for me, it comes down to understanding that God loves you like nobody else can never love you. Yep, yep, yes. Which is so crucial because I'm like, you have two imperfect people coming into a relationship, right? And so having that foundation of that healthiness is so huge. So I'm just curious off the top of your head, what are like the top insecurities you see with women and also then with men?

Like, are they different? But like, as a psychologist, a doctor, if you will. As you called me once, a real doctor. I know. I was like, it's not like you're a doctor or something. I was like, oh, no, you are. It's a doctor-less spirit. Just went to graduate school for eight years, that's all.

I don't know. No, no idea. But for women, this is no surprise, but it's body image, right? The biggest insecurities, and there's been dramatic studies on that, even with supermodels. It just seems like a thing. Totally. And guys often feel, you know, they can suffer from body image stuff, too, but not to the same degree. but it's usually what's my worth, what am I providing?

Yes. You know, those are the big insecurities. The big gender difference. Totally, totally. So we talk a lot about comparison on this show and comparison fuels insecurity because you have this measuring stick that you feel like you're not measuring up to what you're seeing on social media. Right. But do you see comparisons affecting marriages?

Oh, all the time. Yeah. And the more insecure you are, the more comparisons there are. Yeah. And you think about it. Think about the healthiest people you know that don't suffer. from too much insecurity. They're not looking around and, oh, man, I wish we were more like this or more like those

people or we had that or we got that vacation or whatever. And that's why I love, you know, this book, it just happens to be here on your own set. Oh, what's that was? No, we didn't plan this, but, you know, this is so true. Love your life, not theirs. Yeah. That's all about, if you think about it, it's about stepping outside of that insecure lifestyle so that you can be comfortable and content in who you are and in our.

relationship. That's the happiest people on this planet are content because they don't think, man, I wish I could be more like them or have more of that or have that house or have that boat or whatever. And so the comparison thing, you're just asking for trouble. You're playing with fire when it comes to comparisons. Totally. And a lot of comparison happens on social media. So what would you say to one couple that maybe they're fighting about social media and one couple spend, or one person, one spouse spends so much time on social media and the other doesn't? So I just read this study that shows that couples that are the happiest are, have incredibly thick boundaries around social media.

Interesting. Yes. And so. Winston Cruz will be very happy. You're talking about this right now. So, and it's not just putting boundaries around, oh, you know, friending an old flame or whatever. It's the amount of time.

Yep. And kind of the, the, the. And how much you share? Would that be one of like? How much you share without your spouses know, knowledge of that. But also just your obsession with it, you know? I mean, we can get pretty consumed with all that. And so it's not about, oh, we need rules, and I don't mean kind of boundaries like that.

It's you find your groove with it in a way that honors your spouse. So they don't feel like I'm playing second fiddle in this relationship because she's really married to that phone and all that social media. We talked about earlier on this episode. There was a New York Times article about a couple and their whole honeymoon was based on her obsessed with getting herself in front of sunsets. I can believe, and I think I know that couple. Yeah, I know, right? So, like, it has. It's played such a huge role even, like, in the first 10 minutes of your marriage, right?

Or even at the wedding. Like, it's just, it's crazy. Okay, so you talk a lot about fighting well, like having a good fights. And so I love that because some couples believe, oh, well, we never fight. We have a great marriage. Yeah, right. That's kind of the opposite. That means you're probably not really digging in.

So talk about conflict. I just want to know conflict in general, your thoughts on it. Yeah, so conflict is so important because, as you've heard me say it so many times, it's the price we pay for a better connection. It's the admission to a good relationship. So good. Conflict is the price you pay for intimacy. Exactly.

It's like what I've heard you say. I'm like, oh, it's so good. That's such a good quote. It's true because the goal is not to avoid conflict. If you do that, you're going to walk around on eggshells and nobody's going to be genuine with each other. The goal is, you're going to be genuine with each other. The goal is, is to be able to express in your own personality style, to express whatever it is that you're

not, you know, in agreement with or what have you, and still honor your spouse and be understood and understanding. And those kinds of fights are good. And that's very different. You and I talk a lot about personality. I know you love the Enneagram and so do I and all that stuff. Well, an eight's going to fight very different than a one and, you know, those kinds of things. So we have different fight styles. But the idea is still that we're expressing. that we get out what is frustrating to us, and some of us have no problem with that whatsoever, because we have lots of words to describe that,

but other people struggle with it, right? And so it's a good thing. Don't try to avoid conflict. Yeah, so good. Oh, so interesting. So we'll end by this. I'm just curious, as we were doing these questions for you, I was like, oh, I just want to know since we're on my curiosity.

Like, as a marriage counselor, psychologist, again, like you've been in this world for so long, so you've done so much research and been with real-life couples, What are, like, the top three things that create a healthy marriage? All right. This might be a new book. I don't think about this. The top three things.

Well, one is awareness. I think there's this idea that you can just kind of go float through life and you're just in love and that's all you need. No, no, no. You've got to be aware of the emotional landscape around you, which involves you and this other person. And that awareness, and by the way, you know we have an assessment. It's called Better Love. It is all about creating awareness for couples. So good.

Winston and I took it. It's awesome. Betterlove.com. You go online, you answer a few questions, generates this little 10-page report that is really a customized roadmap for your relationship.

And so anyway, I think awareness has got a top, be near the top of the list for me. A second is empathy. I've talked so much about empathy. Written a book called Trading Places about it. So important. I wish we could give it as a wedding gift to people.

It's so valuable. It's, I think probably, the number one relationship skill set that we need to be working on. It's good. Seeing the world from somebody else's perspective and vice versa. And when you have two people that are both working on that, doesn't mean they're doing it 24-7, but the more they're working on that, life doesn't get much sweeter.

Yeah, it's good. So awareness and then empathy and then old faithful communication, how in the world do you have a good relationship without having great conversations? And that, to me, as you know, we talk about this at money and marriage a lot, is uncovering your talk style. Everybody is designed uniquely. And again, the better love assessment will help you kind of uncover that talk style as well. So there's three. That's good.

I love it. I don't know if it's definitive, but today those are the top three. That's in your head right now. No, no, that's so good. Which of those do you struggle with the most? Awareness, empathy, or communication? I would probably say empathy. Yeah.

Uh-huh. Because I kind of get in my. I get in my lane. And the fact that Winston and I are so different. Yeah. Like, Enneagram chat. Yeah. He's a five.

I'm a three. So I'm like, we're just so, like, so, like, so I'm like, I just don't get it. It's not that big of a deal. Or he'll go off and he like needs a loan time. And I'm like, why would you want a loan time? Right. Like, there's a person right here. Why do you want to be by yourself?

I don't get that. Like, so truly going in and be like, okay. And that's awareness, being aware of those personality differences. And that's the on ramp to empathy, really, once you become aware. Is it at, yes. But it's such a deliberate thing, isn't it? Oh, yeah, you have to be so hard, yes. You're right. I am a professional at it. It's so challenging.

And Leslie and I are continually working at seeing the world from each other's point of view. Totally. Putting yourself in their skin, imagine what life must be like to be lived from their perspective in their shoes. That's hard work. That's why we don't do it well. Even when we want to and we know about it, it still is a deliberate choice. Intentionality is in the name of the game. Yeah, so good.

And do you think any of that is because I was talking to a friend about this, where I'm like innately, like, how we're probably just selfish beings in general, like, even, like, as a little kid, like, learning mine. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you, and so, like, a part of that is, like, you have to, you see life through your set of eyes. The more insecure you are, the more selfish you're going to be, right? Because it's all about me.

Totally, totally. It's like if you have a toothache, you can't think of anybody else's name because I got this to deal with, right? Right, right. But once you're healthier, I don't think it's so much about selfishness as it is about your, what I just call your agendas. Everybody has agendas. We have an agenda about what are we going to do after this show.

I got an agenda about where I'm going to sit on the airplane that I'm getting on later tonight. And we all have agendas about how the dishes are going to be washed after dinner, whatever. We have agendas. And that's what clouds the capacity for empathy as you get healthier. It moves from the insecurity to just being fully present right now to recognize this person in front of me and where they're coming from. So good. That's the challenge. Les, thanks for coming on.

Good to be with you. Always a pleasure. So fun. Okay, we've been talking about our event, Money and Marriage, you guys. It's a blast. I know. And I'm excited because Valentine's,

we're going to do this again right here in Nashville, money and marriage. Talk about an ideal Valentine date for couples. It's going to be a blast. I know, you guys. So we'll put a link in the show notes, click on it because it's like Valentine's weekend. And there's going to be a whole weekend experience

here in Nashville, like a whole thing. So make sure to check it out. he talks marriage. I talk money. It's great. It's great. Les, thanks again. All right. Thank you. So fun. Oh, Dr. Les Perrin, he always has such great advice. I love it. So thanks so much to him for coming on and Lacey for sharing her story. And I know some things that we've talked about today can be kind of uncomfortable at times, but it's such an important topic. And this is the kind of stuff that makes a really big impact in your life. Now, if you want anything we've talked about in this episode, make sure to click the link in the show notes. If you've not subscribed to this podcast, make sure you do that.

And if the spirit leads, you can leave a review. And as always, make sure you take control of your money and create a life you love. So if you guys enjoyed this podcast, we have more from the Ramsey Network, like Christy Wright's Business Boutique podcast. Hey, I'm Christy Wright, and I help women all over the country take their ideas and passions and hobbies and turn them into profitable businesses. If you have an idea in your head or a dream in your heart and you've ever wondered if you could make money doing it, I'm here to help. Join us on the Business Boutique podcast where we are equipping women to make money doing what they love. To hear full episodes, just search Business Boutique, wherever you listen to podcast, or go to businessboutique.com.