The Rachel Cruze Show - Did the Pandemic Kill the American Dream? (with Ken Coleman)

Episode Date: December 13, 2021

Don’t let big changes stand in the way of reaching your money goals. If you’re switching jobs, worried about student loans, or learning how to live debt-free, this episode is full of practical help and tools for you. Here’s the lineup: Did the Pandemic Kill the American Dream? (with Ken Coleman) Student Loan Relief Is Ending (Here’s What to Do) I’m Nervous to Spend Money. Should I Be? Resources: Zander Insurance Ken Coleman’s Resumé Templates Borrowed Future Ramsey+ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What will it look like as we move through 2021 into 2022? So it's being called the Great Resignation. I think it's the great revelation. Hey guys, welcome to this episode of the Rachel Crewe Show podcast. So glad that you're here. In this episode, we're going to talk a lot about what's been going on in our world lately. You'll hear a conversation I had with Ramsey personality, Ken Coleman, on how to prepare and get the job you want.

We're going to go over how to write a winning resume, how to show confidence in an interview, and how to overcome any fear you may have since the pandemic started. I'm also going to answer a question with Ashley on how to nest in their new home without guilt. So they've worked the baby steps. They're on baby step six, and she is still hesitant to spend money on furniture.

So we're going to talk about that. But first, let's talk about student loan relief. There is a lot of talk around this. subject about how to do it, what does it look like, what's going to happen in the future, and we're going to break it all down, plus how to prepare for what's ahead. So take a listen. All right, we're going to dive into a semi-controversial topic here. We're going to talk about student loans.

We're going to talk about student loan forgiveness, student loan relief, because the stuff is happening as we speak. In fact, student loan relief is set to end very, very soon. And a lot of people have a lot of opinions on the. So we're going to talk about it. Plus, we're going to talk about who's eligible for student loan forgiveness, which is different than relief and what the future possibly looks like. So let's just give some truth, some facts around student loans. The average student loan borrower takes 21 years to pay off their student loan debt.

The average monthly payment is $393. The average balance is $35,000. And you look at all these numbers. $35,000, $400 a month. I mean, this is a huge burden to an entire generation out there. And if you went to college without debt and you said, okay, instead of paying back a loan over the course of 22 years, you went and actually put that money and invested that at 8% over 20 years, it would be $172,000. So that just shows you the power of math, you guys.

That's why we always talk about debt around here, that it's this idea that you're going backwards because you're paying interest on something when you actually could be earning interest on that same amount of money. And so student loans keep people in the cycle of paying interest and paying for this loan over the course of 20-plus years.

And student loans are not just a math problem. There's an emotional problem as well. Because when you have any kind of debt, there's a level of burden that you take on. Proverbs says that the borrower is slave to the lender. When you owe money to people, it changes so much in your life. It changes why you go to work. It changes your motivation.

It changes how you sleep at night. It changes so, so much. And some research from Ramsey Solutions, we have found that nearly half of people with student loans are putting off big life moments, like buying a home, getting married, or having kids. We hear all the time from people that can't go take their dream job

and possibly take a little bit of a pay cut because they have student loans, they have to pay off. Or I talk to moms out there. They're like, I just want to stay home with my kids, but we have to have a dual income right now in order to pay off these bills. I mean, it's just a lot, you guys. And some of you listening to this, you're in that boat.

And so I want to shine a light a little bit on the subject because student loan relief and student loan forgiveness, these two topics automatically put people kind of in cruise control, if you will, thinking, all right, my future, my freedom is now in somebody else's hands. And I don't have to pay back all of this. I can just allow a little bit of me to kind of just coast through because other people are taking the burden on. But here's the deal.

That's not happening. It's not reality. This idea that your student loans are going to be forgiven, and obviously the relief happened, which is, you know, people would say it's great, but then people weren't paying on their student loans because there was not interest. And it ends up hurting us as in a society so much more. And in fact, there's a lawsuit right now suing the Department of Education for misleading people on public student loan forgiveness because we were told an entire generation that, yeah, your student loans would be forgiven. I mean, nurses, firefighters, teachers, police officers,

and librarians were promised forgiveness and it didn't happen. And that's one of the reasons, you guys, you just can't rely on other people. You can't rely on Washington to fix your life. You can't rely on other stuff because things are forever changing, forever changing. Now, student loan forgiveness, it is a pool. And even here at Ramsey's Solutions, I've heard different people, whether it's King Coleman or John's Looney or Dave Ramsey, have a different take on all of this. Because in some cases, yeah, it feels like this entire generation of 18-year-olds was duped into this idea that you have to take out loans to go to school and that it's all going to be okay, promised this whole life. So part of it's like they were lying to. And then, you know, other people

are like, yeah, but you signed your name to something. You have to pay it off. So there's like this tension that I feel around the subject. And again, college grads, they have been applying for this forgiveness thinking, okay, well, they said that they were going to help me out. So I'm going to apply and hoping that part of their debt or all of their debts would be paid off. And in exchange in order for that to happen, they commit to working for a certain employer like a low-income school or a non-profits. And if they do that long enough, then what was told is that, yeah, your student loans will be forgiven. But it's not that simple because the student loan forgiveness program requirements change all the time. So, for example, with PSLF public service loan forgiveness,

you work up to 10 years in a low-paying job in exchange for forgiveness. So when you do that, though, it cripples your earning potential from the start, and now, as of last April, almost 400,000 people have applied for PSLF, and not even 1% got it. And what makes it worse, some that were chosen were approved originally, and then they received letters of denial years later, and they still have to pay their loans back. Now, as of just a few weeks ago, things have changed. and so PSLF is easier to become eligible for. They ease some of the restrictions, but you still have to be employed full-time by the government or a nonprofit.

So again, you guys, this is ever-changing. Sometimes it's impossible, and then, oh, they ease it up, and then a new administration takes and they change it. You can't depend on them. I would encourage you to start paying off your student loans. Do not rely on anyone else to do it, because guess what? You can fix you.

You can say, I'm going to change my life. I'm going to start working this process and really start paying down these loans. When you change the control of someone else has control of my life versus, hey, I'm going to take charge. I'm going to take control of my life. So you guys, you have to change your mindset, okay? You have to change your mindset that someone else is going to come in and rescue you to be able to say, okay, I'm going to take control of my life.

I'm going to take control of my money. I am going to pay this off because it is possible. We'll talk about that in a second. But I also want you to change your mindset that you don't have to have loans to go to school. You don't. And it's become this lie that we've told an entire culture that the only way to be successful in life

is if you have a college degree and the only way to have a college degree is, well, God, you gotta take out student loans. Who can pay for college these days? And it's like no other options are on the table. So I want you to change your mindset. Number one, again, that you have control over your life. But number two, that student loans are not an option.

And this is going to be huge, for those students who are not in school yet and have not walked down that path. So there's some preventative ways that you really can kind of build up if you have a teenager in your life to show them how they can go to school debt-free. Number one, school choice.

This is everything, okay? If you go to a private school, if you step over your state line to another public university, you're going to be paying three, four, even five times as much to go to a different school. So by staying in state, even to a community college,

go there for the first year or two and get all your prerext done there. This is going to be the biggest money saver right there is your school choice. Number two, scholarships and grants, free money. It's out there. You can do that. You can apply for free money. It is still possible. And then number three, working.

And being strategic about your work. So I talk to a lot of students that actually work for their university. And the university lets them maybe have room and board for free or helps pay their tuition. or schedules their work around their classes. So just be smart about the work that you're doing while in college, but that can really help you prevent yourself from going into student loan debt. So it is possible to not take out student loans in 2022. It is, it is possible.

Now, if you have student loan debts, then you want to start paying them off. So we have the Ramsey Baby Steps. It's our proven plan to help people take control of their money. So number one, what you're going to do? is get $1,000 to start an emergency fund. And then you're going to start attacking all of your debt, including your student loans, using the debt snowball.

So this is where you list out all of your debts, smallest to largest, regardless of the interest rate, pay minimal payments on everything, and attack the smallest debt first. Then once it's paid off, you take everything you were focusing on this and rolling it over to the second smallest debt. And when you're looking at this,

you're going to realize your income and your expenses are a huge part of this equation of paying off debt faster. So if you can get your end, come up, and again, just for a season. I've talked to people, they're working two, three, four side jobs to get extra money to pay off this debt faster. If you up your income and you lower your expenses and you'll know what your expenses are by doing a budget, if you need some tips on that, you can just Google Rachel Cruz budget and

tons of stuff on the subject. But by budgeting, you're able to cut out expenses. So more money, again, is going towards paying off debt and doing this so quickly with such motivation, such focus, it's amazing what can happen when you have this focused intensity towards paying off your debt, including your student loans. Now, when it comes to debt consolidation, I will say that student loan debt is the one type of debt I'm okay if you consolidate. A lot of people use debt consolidation because they think if I can make all of my debt into this one big bill and this other company is helping me, it feels less scary than having all of this and

it's going to fix the problem. Listen, debt consolidation doesn't. Listen, debt consolidation doesn't it fix your problem. But student loan debt is the one type of debt you usually don't go back into, so it's not necessarily a behavior problem. So if you do have multiple student loans and you can consolidate them for a lower interest rate with the average of all years combined, maybe that's what you choose to do. But part of the motivation is paying off your debt smallest the largest. So if you do keep them separate and you can knock them out, smallest amount at a time versus like one huge mountain, there is a behavior shift there that's really encouraging. So again, you can look at the math, But that is the most efficient way to pay off your debt.

Now, again, student loan relief, it is coming to an end, and a lot of people were not paying on their student loans, and you're going to get a wake-up call of like, oh, yeah, you're going to have to start paying. So I would encourage you, if you have student loans and you're not been paying, log into your account, look at your information, make sure everything is up to date, make sure the amount looks correct, know what your monthly payment's about to be,

and realize, okay, here's where I'm going. But I want that to fuel you. I want you to be pissed about it and be like, God, so done this, so stupid, I want out, I want out. Don't take 22 years, you guys, to pay this off. No, you can do this. And a big part of that, again, is your mindset shift, think that you can.

Not that all these other people are going to do it for you that may or may not, we don't know, you can. We talk to people all the time here at room solutions that are out of debt, and usually their largest debt is their student loan, but they do it, they pay it off. And it takes, you know, for some people, It takes not a lot of time. For some people, it does take years.

But again, the idea that you're owning it and you're saying, I'm going to take control of this and pay it off. We released a documentary here at Ramsey Solutions called Borrowed Future, and it's phenomenal. It's absolutely phenomenal. And it dives into this topic in such a compelling way. So you have to check it out if you've not watched it. And if you have someone in your life who is going into college,

have them watch this documentary. It can literally save them hundreds of thousands of dollars. by just making a choice to say no to student loan debt. So you guys, I know this is a big topic, lots of opinions around it, but here's the deal. I still am in the belief that the borrower is slaves and lender

and that there is still a way to go to school without student loans. And you can do that today. You can pay it off and you can encourage people in your life who are going to college that they don't have to walk down this road. I feel like it's just a crazy time right now

in the world when it comes to people's jobs. The great resignation is happening, and there's more than 10 million jobs available today. And people are just all over the place it feels like. So when people are all over the place, when it comes their jobs, I'm like, Ken Coleman, will you come on and talk about this? Yes, I'm here. So, Ken, how are you?

Welcome back. Good to be here. Thanks for being here. Crazy times are right. That's a great description. Okay, so let's just go high level with this. Just from my perspective, what I'm seeing. There are still industries from 2020 that are not back to where they were.

now people are even physical locations, they're working from home more than ever. People are like, oh, I can buy an RV and work from it and travel the world with my kids. It just feels like this whole world of quote-unquote corporate America or jobs or offices or whatever is blown up. That's my feeling. So give me like the facts.

Is that true? It's absolutely true. So when the pandemic hits, you have everybody forced to just go home. And there was no choice. And then as you had certain states and we all know how politicize this has gotten, So depending on where you were in the United States, you couldn't go back.

And then in certain parts, companies came back. And so then you had a big swath of the American working population who said, you know what? I dig working from home. I'm not going back ever. Well, that's all great until you run out of opportunities to just do that. Are there going to be companies that will always have work from home exclusively? Yes. But by and large, we're seeing even major companies like Google, for an example, who they did send everybody

home, but now they want people back, but they're using a hybrid model. So this hybrid model is new. So basically what that is is they want you in the office some, but then you can also work from home or work from wherever. But we saw companies like Google and Facebook do this where they said, okay, if you're in a major metropolitan area and we ask you to come back and you choose not to come back, that's fine. We'll let you work remote from wherever that is. But if you're outside the city, we're going to cut your pay by 15%. So the reason I share that is, is this desire to work from home, I'm all for it. But at some point, you're going to limit your opportunity if you say, this is my stance. So that's one big factor that's happening. And people are going,

that's all I want to do. Well, great for you. But you may end up working for yourself from home because it's going to be limited. Companies are asking for people to come back. Yes. Okay. So that's a conversation happening. And then what are some other big pieces that are involved in this discussion? Because it just feels like an apple turnover, basket turnover? What's that thing? 100%. Yes. I'm not even sure what that is. But I know what you're talking. What I'm talking about? Apple? Fruit basket turnover? I know these are great desserts and I'm hungry all of a sudden. Something like that.

Yeah, so in August, okay, we saw the record number of people leaving jobs. And they just go home and quit. They left their current job and went to a new job. 4.3 million was the number. Some economists are saying that October's numbers will be even higher. What will it look like as we move through 2021 into 2022? So it's being called the Great Resignation. I think it's the great revelation. And I think what's really going on is I think that the pandemic did two things. I mentioned earlier that there was this force change. If you look at March of last year, we were in New York doing media,

and the world was shutting down while we were there in March of 2020. So we didn't know what was going on. Nobody did. That's right. We thought Manhattan was going to close. Remember that? I was like, we're going to be stuck on this violence. We didn't think we were going to get out of there. And so the idea here is what happened.

Force change to the point we've never experienced change before. Our kids came home, we came home. It was a completely different lifestyle. Then you had on the other side, That's one storm. Then on the other side was the uncertainty of health. Yes. We would turn on TV and see a death ticker.

How serious is this health thing? Mortality and massive lifestyle change. Two storms coming at us. And I think it made people take stock. Where am I in my life? Am I doing what I do? Life is uncertain. Life is short.

Life is precious. All those things. And I think that's had people go, all right, you know what? I'm going to level up. I'm going to do something different. I'm not going to work like you used to work. I want to go do this. and I think that's all feeding this great resignation.

And then if you put the match on top of everything, it's thick right now, there's more jobs available than there are people who are unemployed. Yes. So what's happened there? Well, there's more types of jobs, different jobs. So people go, why don't want to work crazy weekend hours waiting tables? Is this the service thing?

Yes. That's why they can't hire anybody. Yeah. Because they say, I can work from home and do a technology job, or I can drive Uber, or I can deliver. That's what's going on. And so it's just got companies and people all going, what do I want, what do I want, what do I want?

And so there's this big, I think it's musical chairs. Uh-huh. I think that's what's happened. Remember that fun little game? A thousand percent, yes. We're all running around, and I think it's going to be this way for a while. Okay, so I want to get to like the individual, but before we go, I know you don't have a crystal ball,

but like, do you see it, do you see any signs of it settling, or do you think it's going to be another 24 months of this musical chair game? I'm not willing to say how long it's going to be before it settles, but I do think it settles. because what's happening is you're going to see companies adjust. So you're going to see, and I'm not going to get into this right now, you'll see artificial intelligence and automation is going to be a big play. I think you're traditional.

Let's call it B-C-plus, B-minus C-plus dining experience. I hate to pick on chilies, but, you know, a restaurant chain like that, I think you're going to see that go away. I think you're going to see your fast self-serve that's highly automated, and I think you'll have your high-end experience where people are willing to pay for an experience, ambiance, and food. I think that's going to survive. So I think you'll see some shifts, and then when that happens,

then you'll see it right size a little bit. Yeah. It's just, it's crazy. It is crazy. Nobody knows is the real answer. Sure, which is very smart to say. I remember I did an Instagram live. April of 2020.

And people are like, when is this going to end? When will the pandemic? And I was like, I mean, probably like July. Like, I mean, I said that. Well, it depends on who you talk to, right? I have no idea. Right, yeah. It depends on your definition of pandemic.

Laura, mercy of my soul. Okay. Okay, so for someone watching. or listening, and they're saying, that's me, though, Ken. I feel I had a health freak out, and I realize my life is precious, and I'm wanting a different change when it comes to the career. How do you coach people on finding a new career path? I love that.

So we want to get clear. I mean, you just got to get clear on what you bring to the table. So we start with talent. Because think of talent as your tools, premium tools. You know, no one wants to go out and do a bunch of carpentry work with a hand saw. We want power saws. And so you've got to think of your talent. this is what I can be really, really good at, and I use these as tools.

Then we want to look at what's the kind of work that I love? And if you're spending less than 75% of your day doing something that you really enjoy, I'm telling you, that's going to catch up. That's why we're seeing people move on. They're looking for, shouldn't it be a little bit more enjoying than it is now? And I think that's part of it. And then the last piece is, what are the results that I want to create? So we teach this clarity, which is I use what I do best, talent, to do work I love passion,

to produce results that matter to be mission, the millennials, your generation, the number one demographic in the workforce in America today, they, by far, of any working generation in American history, they care more about the values that they have personally connecting to the values of the organization, even the product or service, they deliver, and then how they deliver it.

So I think you're going to see more and more of this. So we want people to get clear first, because once I'm clear, then I can see, Rachel, there's more than one job. Yeah, yeah. There's more than one career path. And there's more than one dream job. That's what I want people to understand.

Because, you know, it's this intense, scary thing. It's like choosing the person you're going to marry. That's intense. Like, this is the decision, and I want people to relax. There's nothing to freak out about it. If I'm doing, if I'm using what I do best, my talent, to do work that I really enjoy, and it's creating results that matter to me.

Guess what? You're going to experience fulfillment and meaning in that work. So that's where we start. Now we're looking at the right things. Yes. Not just licking the fingers, thinking it up in the air and going, I hope this is a good job for me.

Yep, absolutely. And you talk about getting qualified. So kind of walk me through that. Does it cost money to do that? Sure does. Give me all the... All right. So once we're clear,

and let's say we've got three different career paths, we're going to look at these and go to which one do we think we're most in alignment with, and we're going to pick one, because one's going to make the heart flutter a lot more than the others. Now we've got to get qualified. And there's four simple questions you've got to answer.

What do I need to learn? That's the education piece. It does not necessarily mean a degree. It just could mean qualification. online certification. So what do I need to learn? What do I need to do? Is there some experience, just base level experience? The answer is yes. There's always going to be base level experience. So you've got to figure out what do I need to learn, what I need to do, and then how much is that going to cost me? And then how long is that going to take? Those are the four questions.

What do I need to learn? What do I need to do? How much is it going to cost me? We've got to look at budget right there and go, oh, it's going to take me 24 months of doing this online at night because I can't afford to go all in or whatever the situation is. And that answers that next question. how long is this going to take? Now I've got a plan. Oh, in 36 months, I'm going to be totally qualified, ready to go. Now that's not as intimidating when I know how long all of this is going to take. So once we're doing that, now we want to get connected. See, I can be talking to people who are doing what I want to do. I can be volunteering, shadowing, places that I want to be in while I'm getting qualified. And the reason we do that, Rachel, is because we want opportunities to come to

us before we've even got qualified. They go, oh, Rachel, we want you. You're going to be ready in April of 22? Yeah, great. We really like to extend an offer to you. So that way, we're not just always running this, what's going to be next, what's going to be next? Well, if we walk this plan out, opportunities will come to you and you're going to be ready. And then you walk right into it, you get started. So that's how you get in. By the way, that works for people who want to pivot. Yes. So I've been in this career, I've been an accounting, and I want to go into project management, for instance. That's the process. I'll just walk it out very practically. So do you need a degree to be in project management? No, great news, but you can get certified. So what does it cost

to get certified in a project management program? Great, I get that cost. I don't need a bunch of experience to get this level of job, so that's great. So now I go do that. And before I know it, I'm there, and here's the greatest part. I didn't interrupt my income. Because people ask all the time, can you do this, Ken, and walk the baby steps out? The answer is yes. As a matter of fact, I tell everybody, don't ever quit the baby steps, figure out how you can get qualified, get connected and get started while walking the baby steps. Oh, that's so good. And for people that are saying, I'm going to be doing all of this

and applying for a new job, resumes. This is a big conversation. People talk about this a lot. What are a couple of points you have or tips for people as they're creating their resume? I love this question. So think of your resume as a brochure. So it's not your biography.

No one wants to read your life stories. Just stop. Because a lot of people stress out. So we teach number one, one page and most relevant information. You don't have to put your entire work experience. People say, Ken, do I need my whole work experience? No, you can provide it if they ask. But what we teach is you put your most relevant information in there

because remember this, two key things. The average amount of time that a hiring manager spends looking at a resume, what would you guess? Any kind of guess? How much time do they spend? Four seconds. Wow, impressive. 7.4.

Oh, I was going even lower. They're lower, but most people would guess, oh, 60 seconds? Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Not even close. Well, I just would think they're like scanning. Well, you nailed it. So that's the first thing. The second thing is, is what are they trying to determine

if you are qualified enough to have a conversation to decide if you can help them win? Take all the pressure off the resume. We created a free resume guide at Ken Coleman.com that actually walks people through it. The third point I'd make on the resume is this. We flip the resume, traditional resume templates, Rachel, have references on the bottom of the page or on the second page.

We flip it. We lead with who I know. And the reason is, is we want hiring managers to stop and see something that they've never seen before, make them go, it's kind of that number. By the way, it's working. And we want to lead with who I know. I have a connection to this person over in this department,

or I know this expert in this field, and then there's a strong endorsement statement from the person. It's a total game changer because it makes the hiring manager go, hmm, and so that's one real technique that stops their eyeballs. And if there's the right relationship there with the right endorsement, you're already ahead of the pack. For sure. That's a real quick how-to on the resume.

And again, if people want to check it out, it's free, Ken Coleman.com. We have a full guide, PDF walks you through what to do, how to do, and we actually give you a free template. Love it. Yeah. So once the resume's out, they say, perfect, we want an interview. What are a couple of things that questions,

maybe that people usually get in interviews so that they can feel confident and like, oh, yeah, I know what I'm doing. So I love that you bring up confidence. So how do you get confident in what is, for most people, the most anxiety-ridden performance of their life? the job interview. How do you get confident? Well, it's preparation. Relentless preparation leads to reflexive performance. I love to use the football analogy. You know how much I love football. These

quarterbacks that can operate an entire series going from the end zone to end zone in a minute and a half. How do they do that? Well, they've practiced that two-minute drill so many times. They know the plays. They know the cadence. And so it's instinct. And so here's what we know about the human brain. It will recall about 70 to 75 percent of the information you put in it, even under most stressful situations. So prepare ahead of time. What are the questions that you're going to be asked? Think of that. How would you answer them? And then you brought up what I think is the best point. And that is the questions that you ask in the interview are the ones that will set you apart. Most people, when asked you, do you have any questions that go, no, I'm good, or how many vacation

days do we get? Or what are benefits? Right, right. Right. No, no. You've got to ask, here's a couple of samples. Describe the person that wins in this role. Or describe the person that wins in this company. What does the relationship look like between this position and the rest of the team? Those are questions that are actually going to yield good answers. Yeah. And give you good information about the role. Give you good information about whether or not you think it's a good fit for you. And the added bonus of, wow, this is a thoughtful person. Rachel asked really great questions there. She's sharp. She's thinking about this. And one final thing on this, remember that the job interview is as much

for you as it is for them. I think we go into this thing, feeling this sense of performance. And the reality is, yes, we got to perform well. But you know what? We also got to ask the right questions and listen intently to figure out, do I think I'm a good fit here? Yes. The last thing you want to do is jump into a job and leave six months later. Yep. Because it was a horrible fit. Yes. Okay. So last interview question. I know how much you love a little style. Ken Coleman. I do. I do love style. What people wear. Yeah. Things have changed since the 90s. I don't know why the 90s popped in my head. Because for you, that is the old 90s.

He's the suit and ties. How old were you in the 90s? Do what? How old were you in the 90s? I was anywhere from 4 to 14. That's my point. So the old 90s, that was very weird for you. I know how old are you can. Well, I graduated high school in 92. Ouch! Wow! I'm so much older than Rachel. I am. You're like my elder. You're bringing so much wisdom.

The next generation has spoken. Everyone. That's right. I love the 90s, by the way. Great music and great style. Okay, so here's the answer on style. All these Gin Ziers trying to redo the 90s. I was like, y'all are cute 90s. I used to look like I was homeless. Exactly. So we would wait.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Listen, I know. All right, so here's the deal. Simple rule. Dress to the level of everybody else in the room. Find out you can talk to HR. You can ask somebody.

It's not inappropriate to ask even the hiring manager. If it's a small business, hey, what do you guys wear around the office? What's your normal dress code? What's everybody wearing? That's what you show up with. Yeah. It's okay if you want to dress up. I'm not a fan of it.

not going to recommend it. Ramsey's solution is a great example. What I'm wearing today is pretty normal. You know, guys wear hats here sometime. I wouldn't ever wear a hat for an interview unless it's a farm interview or a warehouse where everybody's wearing hats. Then dress like them. Totally, totally. Here's the reality. If you overdress, it can sometimes make you look stuffy and like maybe you're not a good fit. Like this dude's rocking a three-piece suit. Some suspenders? Look at that. I'm not sure I trust him, right? You know, and you don't want to underdress. So I would dress exactly the way that everybody else is. Here's a lot. Here's a lot. what you want. You would want someone to mistake you for an employee if you got lost in the building.

That's my rule on that. Just dress like everybody else. So great. Look like you fit in. Okay, so as we wrap up, all great stuff. I have had conversations with friends about the subject. So I was like, I'd be curious what King Coleman is to say. When it comes to jobs and working, because there is some sense for people that a job, it's very just utilitarian, right? I work to make money, and that money provides a lifestyle for a family that I want. And especially if it's a good paying job, I'll do it so that I can equal this amount of money, and it works for my family. Where others, on the other opposite extreme, just do what you love,

and you can figure out a way to make it work, and it doesn't really matter, and if you have a passion for this, you just go. And, you know, it's that feeling. Where do you think a healthy balance is? Because both are great, but what do you find with people over time and a job? Where does the money play in? Where does the passion plan? How does this balance out?

Because, again, people working in the baby steps are like, I may be in this great job, I'm making good money, and if I change, I don't want to feel insecure about it. But like, how do you balance it all in a perfect world? Well, if you were doing something that you were created to do, if you were in alignment, talent, passion, and mission, I get great news for you, you will be able to provide and you will also be able to contribute. See, those are the two emotions that every human has around work. If we just strip it down to two emotions, the first is provision. There's no question about it. We do have to work to provide for ourselves if we're single or for others if we're in a family.

unit. But the reality is, is that provision alone is not enough for someone to feel that meaning at work. It's just not because every time you begin to just begin to focus on, well, yes, I'm providing a good check, but I'm not experiencing anything. So for the extreme side of it, oh, I go love it, I love it. I'm not making any money and I'm starving. But I love what I do. Well, that's the extreme too. Because if you are good at it, then you will be able to provide. So it is, is provision and contributions. That's why we wrote the book and we titled it from paycheck to purpose.

Yes, we must have a paycheck, but we long for purpose. That is, again, provision and contribution. So I hate to oversimplify it, but I believe we were created to actually make something positive or do something positive for people. How do we do that?

The creator of the universe gave us talent. We sharpen those into skills, power tools. The creator of the universe gave us a heart. We get excited when we even think about this type of work. You get excited before you go on TV, before you do a show, before you write, before you teach. And then the creator gave us a sense of contribution and a sense of significance where we say, this result is significant to me. It may not be to you, but it is to me.

So we put it all together and you're on purpose when you use what you do best to do work you love to produce results that matter. Now, when you do that, you will make enough money. I'm not going to play the get rich. Like, you're successful only if you stand next to a private jet on Instagram. That's a bunch of garbage. That's a bunch of garbage. When you are doing what you do well

and you do work that you love, and then the result you look at and you go, that matters deeply to me at the end of the day. I know I made a significant contribution. That's success. And when you're there, you'll make enough money. Because we know teachers, largest millionaire study ever done,

net worth millionaire study done by Ramsey Solutions. Third largest group of network millionaires, teachers. Median salary in the United States right now with teachers $60,000. They live on less, but they have plenty of juice because they love what they do, and they know that they're creating a result that matters to them. So that's the answer to work.

Yep, I love it. Love it, love it. Thanks. Well, paycheck to purpose, you guys. Ken's new book is out, and it is so good. So make sure to pick it up anywhere books are sold and you can check him out at the Ken Coleman Show, radio, podcast, YouTube, all the things.

You're everywhere, Instagram. So make sure go check out everything he's doing, Ken. Thanks for having me. High five. I don't know. It's kind of felt right. I felt good about it. I felt good about that, too.

Well, what was huge is that we made mostly good. contact. It was, it was a, yeah, it could have been very off, but it was like, I don't know. Felt it was good. There was nothing awkward about it. To be an old man, you did a great high five. To be a child of the 80s. Thanks again. Thanks for having me. This episode, I get to bring one of you on to talk through your money journey, answer money questions, all the things. So today I have Ashley with me. Thanks for being here. I so appreciate it. I'm super excited. I'm really interested to get your takes on some of the things we're talking about over here.

I love it. Okay. So first, where are you calling from? We are in Jacksonville, Florida. The Royal Wee, my husband and I, just us. Okay. Perfect. Awesome. Okay. And where are you guys on your money journey? So I was thinking about this this morning. I guess we're on 3B. We got married and bought our first home in 2018. And we were in Baby Step 6 for a couple months, which was amazing. Wow. And then we were talking about it. We were in an area of town that didn't really feel very safe anymore. And we're like, you know, we can buy another house now. We're finally there.

So we built a new home in 2020 and just sold that two weeks ago and our downsizing, which is what I wanted to talk to you about today. Yeah, absolutely. So what's your question? What caused you guys to downsize? Give me all the details. I'm so curious. Yeah.

So the market being as high as it was, we said if there was ever a time, to try to sell your house and make a different decision in a year. This was a good time. And so we went and bought a town home 3-2, 1,700 square feet. And it's funny because we were talking in both my husband and I grew up in smaller homes. So it's really been a question of how do you determine what's enough and in this whole journey of contentment? So I've got two questions. The first is how do you balance paying off your home in baby Step 6 and being able to net? And being able to net, That's something that we were very, very bad at. My husband said when we move, all he wants is a headboard.

Said it's been three years. Why don't we buy a headboard? And it's not that we can, you know, we can't. It's just, you know, we kind of look. We can put this much on the house or we can buy a headboard. But then all of a sudden you look up and people think we live in a frat house because we don't buy anything. That's so funny.

Well, I can kind of relate in a sense because I think, especially in a home, I don't know, my husband and I said this. We're like, oh, yeah, we'll change this or this in a year. And then a year comes, you're like, oh. I don't know. I don't even want it. It almost becomes this inconvenience more than anything. And so for things like a headboard, yes, Ashley, buy the headboard.

A lot of you know. It's good to be happy. By the headboard. Yep. You know, you are now further along. I mean, you should be back in Baby Step 6, right? Yeah. I guess 3B because we're still clumping all the money from the sale together.

But yes, as soon as we close, everything kind of balances back to normal. Sure. In six weeks, you'll be on Baby Step 6. So, yeah, yeah, that's fair. I really appreciate your diligence. So you're like, technically at this time, at this day, we're on baby step 30. You will be in baby step six very quickly. Yeah.

And we always say it's the grind, it's the sacrifice in that baby step one through three. And you guys are in the thing, you've done it. Like you've made smart decisions with your money. It is okay to spend. But I find that it's hard to get in the habit of spending when you haven't spent money. When you have been grinding it out and your money's been going places. And now it's like, okay, we have margin. We don't even know how to spend it.

So I would sit down with your husband and you guys need to upgrade your lifestyle by a percentage point. You could do 5%, you could do 8%, but just make yourself have some margin because you have the money for it. And this could be after you close on the town home, you guys move in, all of that, right? Once the dust settles. But you guys need to start enjoying some of this. Like, this is the hard work. We say live like no one else. So later you can live and give like no one else.

And you guys are on that other side right now, which is just amazing. So to be able to see it on paper, though, because that budget, it is permission. to spend. So when it's on the budget, you may have to kind of force yourself. It may take a few months to be like, no, we're going to buy the coffee table. No, we're going to buy two new couches for the like, no, we're going to buy some things. And as long as the money is there and you guys are doing everything else right, it is okay. It is okay. And again, it is a hard muscle to kind of build again for some people. And you guys are just experiencing that. But you've been so diligent up into this point, you now have the ability to do it. Yeah, I would encourage you to spend. I would encourage you to

spend some money. I love that. This is the call. This thing never happens. Normally, I'm like, you can stay in the grind, you can stay in the grind, but you guys, you really can. And again, I'm not saying go crazy. I'm not saying go drop 200 grand, but to be able to say, okay, no, we're going to up our lifestyle a few percentage points and practice that. Because here's the deal, too, actually, the track you guys are on, you're going to be building wealth, you're going to be handling more. And if you can't handle what you have right now, it's going to paralyze you in four to five years when you guys have the house paid off, the townhouse paid off. and you really are accumulating wealth, you're going to buckle under that, right?

So practice now where you guys are, be giving more, a little bit more if you want to. That's a good outflow, but also practice that spending as well. Okay. Does that help? I love the buckling analogy, that if you don't at least give it a little leeway now, you're going to buckle later. That helps a lot. Be able to practice, handling it well, yeah.

I will say. So the discussion with my husband and I, because we do still want to spend. We go look at the shiny, like one day, the shiny things, right? We're on two schools of that right now. Do we buy all this stuff for the bedroom when we get into the house in this particular room? Or do we budget a little bit every month? So like you said, with the percentages, I guess it would be the latter. Yeah, well, I would say, yeah, just upping your lifestyle in general.

And maybe that upping lifestyle isn't going and taking a vacation. Maybe it's, hey, we're going to furnish part of this room. We're going to get a headboard and nightstands. Yes, we're going to get the headboard first and foremost, yes. You better order that soon. To be able to say, okay, we have X amount extra this month from what we've decided, percentage-wise, that we're going to up our lifestyle. where do we want that amount of money to go?

And right now it's sounding like furniture, which is a great thing. Yes, go buy some new furniture with it. And maybe in 10 months, that extra money, you take three months of that and you go on a vacation, right? So you get to kind of decide, that's the beautiful thing about money. You all get to decide where it goes.

So if it's furniture right now, then it's going to depend on how expensive it is, what kind you guys want to be able to say, okay, we can either just write a check this month and go ahead and buy it or let's save up two months and buy a nicer thing, right? And kind of reallocate later. That's great. Absolutely. Amazing. Thank you so much. I've been really excited to come on. I know my husband's super jealous. So thank you. And I'm really excited. I can't wait. We sold and bought our home with one of the ELPs. And so he apparently was in Nashville like two weeks ago and he's like, you have to let me know. And he's been phenomenal and it's been such a process. So we're excited to get through it. And I love that you mentioned about giving yourself wiggle room. Because if you are legalistic about stuff, it kind of puts a box in which God can live. And we don't want to do that.

right. Amen, sister. That'll preach all day. That will preach all day. I love it. Well, thanks again for calling in. I so appreciate it. And again, I'm so excited for you guys. You're killing it. And you're such a motivational story out there for people listening and watching because, yeah, you're doing it day in and day out. So you're amazing. Absolutely amazing. Well, all you guys out there, if you want to be a guest here on the Rachel Crews show, make sure to ask your question on any of the social media channels, YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter. looking for those. And again, all the stories like ones you just heard where they're walking the stuff you guys and they're doing it and it works and it's such a beautiful thing. I have found that I have

to encourage some people to spend money when they are not used to it. Remember you guys, you can give money, you can save money, you can spend money. Obviously, lots of subcategories in just those three, but you have to do all three. So I just want to thank Ashley for coming on and asking her question. Also, I want to thank Ken Coleman for being on and giving us all that great information. And I want to thank you guys for listening. If you have not subscribed to this podcast, make sure to hit that subscribe button. And if the spirit leads, you can leave a review. As always, make sure to take control of your money and create a life you love.