The Rachel Cruze Show - How Any Personality Type Can Win With Money

Episode Date: May 27, 2019

Do you ever wonder why you keep making the same mistakes with money? I want to shed some light on your personality type so you can make real progress! In this episode, you’ll learn: Whether you’re a Spender or a Saver and whether you’re a Nerd or a Free Spirit—and how to avoid pitfalls for each type All about my favorite personality typing system, the Enneagram, from Enneagram expert and author Ian Cron How to gain self-awareness and use your personality type to win with money Resources: Are you a Nerd or a Free Spirit? Ian Cron’s Typology Podcast Ian Cron’s Enneagram Assessment My Facebook Group Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

If you know your personality type, you can avoid a lot of problems. Enneagram experts and Kron. The aneagram is for personal transformation and development of self-knowledge. It gives you this language that I haven't had before. Once you know that that's a possible weakness, you can do all kinds of stuff to make sure you don't fall into the traps of it. Hey guys, welcome to the Rachel Cruz Show podcast. As always, I am so glad that you're here. And this episode is going to be really fun because it's all about you.

That's right, and how your personality type can help you win with money. So in this episode, we're going to talk all about how our personalities shape our money habits. And we're also going to have on Enneagram expert Ian Kron. Now, if you don't know what the aneogram is, don't worry. We're going to explain all of that here in a bit. And on a personal note, as Rachel Cruz, I can tell you I'm obsessed with the enneagram. I love it. It was a total game changer for me.

And Ian will explain our strengths and weaknesses when it comes to money. But before he comes on, I want to talk to you about your money type, because we all have one. So take a listen. So when you think about your personality, we all have money tendencies, okay? Some are good, some are bad. Some take us closer to where we want to be, while others, well, they kind of keep us far away from our goals. But here at Ramsey Solutions, one of the things that we've found time and time again is that over the years, there are kind of two spectrums of how people handle money. The first is, are you naturally a spender or a saver?

This is kind of self-explanatory. You can probably quickly identify which one you are. Like, do you just enjoy spending money? Like, it's fun. Well, if that's you, I'm you. I'm a spender, naturally. I just love spending money. I'm good with it.

It's fun. It's freeing. It's great. The second group of people, it's a little bit more like, okay, you know, I'm a saver, and I feel better if I get some extra cash, I'm probably going to just put it away for later. You just don't feel the need to spend. spend it right away, then you're a saver. But to know where you are in the spectrum is really key. Now, the second spectrum is, are you a nerd or free spirits? Now, in Financial Peace University,

which is our nine-week course, if you've not gone through it, people, you need to go through it. But we really explain this in detail because there are two types of people when it comes to money and especially budgets. Again, the nerd and the free spirit. The nerd loves to do the budget, okay? The nerd is one of those people that are like, oh, I feel organized all the time. I love details. I like being in control. I get stressed out if I don't know what's happening. I mean, just everything is just so lined up and it's just, yes, especially with your money, like you're the one probably with spreadsheets or you love doing the budget. It's like, yes, that's the nerd. Now, on the other spectrum, it's the free spirits over here. And listen, I'm a free spirit

so I can speak from personal experience. We're the best. I'm just kidding. No, but free spirits, listen, we're just not as worried. You know, everything is going to work out. Budgets, you know, budget feels kind of restricting or confining at first. And generally speaking, free spirits, yes, we want the basics taken care of, of course, but we want to have some fun and it's all going to work out. That's a free spirit. So figuring out which one you are is really important. And so I decided to go into my Facebook group and do a quick poll. I was like, I'm curious where you land. Because here's another thing. Naturally, people think that nerds are automatically savers, and that is not true.

You could be a nerd and love to do the budget, but you're a spender or vice versa. So, 50% of my Facebook group are nerd spenders. Yes, you guys love doing a budget, but you still will spend the money and have some fun. I love that. 32% of you are nerd savers. 12% of you are free spirit spenders. That's me and part of the 12%. And six percent of you are free spirit savers.

But if you're not sure which one you are, click the link in the show notes to take my nerd versus free spirit quiz. And send it to your spouse if you're married to see which one they are. Because it's always fascinating to see. All right. It's time to talk about one of my favorite things. The Enneagram. Yes.

Now, some of you love it. Some of you have no idea what this is. Some of you know what it is, but you hate it. But listen, I'm just speaking from personal experience. I love anything when it comes to self-awareness. It's probably started in my childhood. We can go back a few years. Yes, I remember my dad brought home an assessment called Disc when I was like nine years old

and had to read out all these questions and filled it out for me as I answered everything because I didn't know what half the words meant. And he was like, okay, and he sent it in and came back. And he's like, all right, you're a high-di-I, Rachel. And so early on, like, understanding your personality and taking these assessments was just, like, a part of my upbringing. So Myers-Briggs, disc, like all of those things I've done. And I do. I love it. I think it's really, really fascinating. Some people are, like, all freaked out and they're like, don't put me in a box. And I'm like, you can put me in a box. And then give me a whole six-page outline of who I am. I think it's fabulous. I love it. And so I heard about the Indiogram a few years ago.

And I kind of was like, what is this? I was just another one. that's not that big a deal. And then people at work were like really talking about it. I was like, okay, I'll take the test. And you guys, again, personal opinion. But it was the most accurate, detailed, layered approach of how I function in life. Like, it was crazy. I mean, as I was reading it all, I was like, oh my gosh, this is insane. And then Winston took it and we were like, oh my gosh, this is Winston. And then our two numbers, because you get numbers with the enneagram, we looked up the marriage of the two numbers, and we were like, this is us. Like, it was unbelievable.

And so again, what that revealed to me was self-awareness, understanding who you are, understanding your strengths, understanding your weaknesses. Because when you can understand why you perceive the world the way you do and why you see it the way you do and how you see it the way you do, even when it comes to your money, it helps you win. When you're self-aware, you can win with your money, you can win in your relationship, you can win at your job. Like so much comes out when you are self-aware.

And so this is what's really key. And to help us, specifically with the Enneagram, Inneagram expert Ian Kron is coming on. And I'm really excited because this interview is one of my favorites ever. So it's coming up next. Ian, thanks for coming. I'm really delighted to be here. Well, I'm pumped.

We laughed at our lyrics. I was like, we did a whole show on Disney World, which I love. And now we're doing a segment on the Eniogram, which I'm obsessed with. So those of you guys, you may have heard about the Enneagram. Some of you have no idea what we just said. You have no idea what this is even about. Ian's going to explain all that in a second. Some of you hate the anorem because everyone in your life is talking about it

and you're annoyed by it. Stay with us. Stick around. And others of you are probably like me. And I may put you in that camp where you just love it. You're fascinated by it. It's so interesting. It's helpful.

It's been a big part of my life in different relationships. So, Ian, for those people that are like, what's that? word even enneagram? Like, what is this thing? How would you explain it? So the enneagram is an ancient personality typing system, and it teaches that there are nine basic personality types in the world, one of which we gravitate toward an adopt and childhood just as a way to cope and feel safe in the world. And what's really important to understand is that each of those types has an unconscious motivation or driver that powerfully influences how that type acts, thinks, and feels, and how it sees the world, how it relates to daily realities. Yeah, so fascinating. Okay, so the nine basic

types. Can you go through them? Yeah, quickly? Yes. Yeah. Nine different types of human beings in the next two minutes. I know. I know. Describe all the human race. Here we go. All right. So ones are called the perfectionists. These are meticulous. hardworking, reliable, conscientious, detail-oriented people who have a compulsive need to perfect themselves, others, and the world. That's good. So these are the kind of people I was laughing with a friend because she's like, I'll walk into a party and she'll be like, I'll see how the food's set up.

And she's like, no, no, no, no, why would you put the sauce on the, no, that needs to go here? Like, she, like, can dissect even that kind of stuff. Like, it's so funny. Well, we talk about the dishwasher test. Okay. Do you know what the dishwasher test is? Yes, I've heard this, but I love it. Okay, well, the dishwasher test is just load a dishwasher in front of someone.

And if after you load it, they go to it and then they start reloading the dishwasher you just loaded, chances are pretty good. You have a one on the ones. So good. I love it. I love it. Now, the twos, my sister's a two. These are twos, three, and fours are all heart people.

So twos are called the helpers. And they have a compulsive need to meet the needs. to meet the needs of other people, right? They want to help and love and support others in order to win the appreciation of other people, the love and appreciation and approval of other people. Remarkable human beings, when they're healthy, they're like their love could warm a city, you know?

They're fantastic human beings. Threes are called the performers or the achievers. They have a need to succeed or to appear successful And to avoid failure at all costs. Okay. Fours are called the individualists or sometimes the romantics. These are people who have a need to be special and unique. And you're a four, aren't you?

I am. Yes. I listen to his podcast all the time, so I know everything. Okay, so I'm a three, but I need help. I'm having this like crazy, between seven and a three. I don't know. we'll talk about a little bit, but I am. I'm the three.

I'm the three. Yes. All right, fives. Yes. They're called the investigators. They're analytical, emotionally detached, oftentimes, very, very private people who have a need to understand and perceive anything. These people are information junkies.

They are constantly gathering information, really to fend off feeling overwhelmed by the world. Yes. It's my husband. Okay. That's why Winston Cruz has never. appeared on the show. Seriously, you're married to a five. I'm married to a five, yeah. Wow. I know. And like the one thing I'm like, babe, come on the show. And he's like, that is the last, that is the last thing in him. It's the last thing. But he supports me. Like, I feel very

firm than all this. But yes, he just doesn't want it. So yeah, that's interesting. So they're very private people. I appreciate that. Very, very, very private. Yeah. Sixes are called the loyalists. Sometimes the devil's advocate or the loyal skeptics. Okay. We think there are more sixes in the world than any other type? Oh, seriously. Interesting. And we think there are fewer fours in the world than any other type. So, which fours probably love. They probably love that you're being special and unique that there are so few of us in the world. Yeah, that's totally our thing, right? So yeah, well, so sixes, they are worst case scenario thinkers who want to feel more than anything else safe and secure in what feels to them to be a very

unpredictable, chaotic, and dangerous planet that we live on. Okay. Okay. Sevens are called the enthusiasts, right? I have a son who is a seven. I like to say about sevens that they suffer from pro-noia, the opposite of paranoia. Pronoia is the belief that everyone is conspiring for you to have fun. That is sort of this, they are the joy bombs of the Enneagram.

And they're fun-filled, spontaneous people who love adventure. and although in service to avoiding difficult or what we would call afflictive emotions, uncomfortable feelings. Yep, yep, that's good. Aides are called the challengers, sometimes the bosses. Yes, yes. Aides have a need to assert power and control over the environment and other people in order to mask weakness and vulnerability within themselves.

What feels like conflict to you feels like connection to an Ate. Yes. And really what feels like. intimidation to you or I feels like intimacy to an age. So that kind of... That's how they connect. Yeah, that's how they connect with people. Good, yep.

So, all right, nines. Nine's last ones. I'm married to a nine. Okay. I'm the father of a nine. One of my daughters is a nine. The other one's an eight. Okay.

Okay, yeah. So nines are called the peacemakers. They are often known as the sweethearts of the aneagram. Okay. Yeah. So nines want to maintain the peace. they want to maintain connection with other people and avoid conflict at all costs, right? Which is so, yes, which is so fine that the number is next to an eight.

So, one of my questions is, is there, why are they in the order they're in? Yes. Well, one thing to be sure is it doesn't, it's not reflecting a hierarchy. Yes. Right. There's no number that's better than another. It's not like ones are the best and nine, sorry. That's not what it is.

These were all strategies. Yes. which is subconscious, right, until you're aware. But like that's what's like, and that's what I love about it, you guys, is this whole episode is about self-awareness. And understanding when you understand how you're wired, the way you are, why you are, it affects your money, it affects your relationships, everything in your life.

And so understanding this, is so key in the Enneagram has been one of the tools that puts language to. I mean, it's one of the, it's, I've done every type of, you know, Myers-Briggs, disc, all that. But it's on a different level. It is. And so I would love for you, to go through the numbers and how each personality interacts with money.

Because it's how we all interact. And it's interesting when you put your personality to it, what unfolds. Yeah. And you know what? I've thought about this topic a lot. And so I've been really excited about doing this show. Oh, that's so glad. Because, no, I have.

I've been thinking to myself like, oh, my gosh. Like, understanding economics or personal finance, your relationship with money through the lens of personality. Yes. Like, actually, if you know your personality type, you can avoid a lot of problems. A lot of mistakes if you know. Amen.

Right. Yes. If you know where your gifts are and your challenges are and you gain self-awareness around them, you can spot them before they undo you. Yes. Right. It's good. Yes.

It's fantastic. It's true. It's true. Yes. All right. Let's talk about ones. All right. I have not met a lot of ones who are in debt.

Yes. They're very concerned about budgeting. They're very concerned. They're ethical and they're principled people. It's good. Now, the trap for them could be. moving from responsibility with money to rigidity with money, maybe overly criticizing themselves and judging themselves

for not doing it well enough. And if they're not careful, judging other people for not doing it well enough. That's good. So we talk about having nerds and free spirits or kind of two camps people live in. And so if you're like a nerd on steroids, then you probably could relate being a one of like,

this is how it is and this is what you do. And it works. Like you just do it. You do the plan. this is it. And so that control a lot of times could come. Yeah. So good. Two's. Generosity to the max. And they want to serve. Now the problem with that is, is overgiving. And sometimes these are crazy gift givers. It's like, I'm just going to give without any thought. That's good. And I'm going to call it love. Yes. When actually it could be

enablement more than love. That it goes into. Right. Okay. Three's. The upside is they are goal crushing machines. They get things done. Productive as heck. The downside of this is they could fall into the trap of using money as a way to project an image of success. They'll buy status symbols, right? Some, what I would call success markers. Totally. Yes. Oh, yeah. So they're the guy or the gal that are driving the, maybe the beamers they can't afford, buying the homes they can't afford, joining the clubs they can't afford. Or they can't afford. Sure. But they're happy to show you. They're trying to message success because they confuse success with love. Yes, that's good.

Right? That's good. So fours are tricky. Okay. All right. Fores might think that budgeting is beneath them. Mm-hmm. It doesn't allow the life and creativity to go.

That's for the little people. Okay. The little people need to worry about money. You know, I'm an artiste, you know, and I'm above such mundane topics like finances. That's so good. Right? Yes, yes. Five.

So you're married to a five. I'm married to a five. Let me see if I can nail this. Okay, I can't wait. All right. It's probably true. All right. So is Winston a minimalist?

Yes. Okay. Okay. I've never, I have never met yours. Let's just be completely honest right now, right? So I would say he is the quintessential quality over quantity. Yes. He will invest in nice things, but there's a few of them.

Right. But yes. Right. Does he hold on to them long past their expiration date? If I could tell you all of the shirts, I'm about to throw away. And when since I had his initials on the back in Sharpie from camp. Yes.

From like college. I'm like, hey, we have God to get rid of this. So yes. Amen. I mean, I can keep going on this, trust me. Oh, this is unbelievable. They don't win. It's crazy.

I've never met a five and won a fashion show. I can just tell you right now. Essentially because. Until he marries Rachel Cruz. That's right. I took him the Nordstrom and we. You got it all I worked out for him. Okay.

No, he's great. He's great. Here's the great thing about fives. Yeah. Fives are minimalist because they are very committed to self-sufficiency. Yes. And they want to construct. serve energy and lots of stuff demands lots of energy.

And it's chaos. It becomes chaotic. And it's chaotic and overwhelming and too much for them. Now, a problem for a five can be that they can spend a lot of time researching what to do with money. You know what I'm saying? How to invest and how to do all this stuff and not actually execute on the plan. Uh-huh.

Right? They can get a little distracted. They go down the wormhole of knowledge. Of Googling and looking up things and researching. Yes. Yes. Totally. That's so funny.

Sixes, you know, these loyalists are chronic warriors. Okay. And a pitfall for them can be they're always looking to outside authorities to make decisions for them. And that could be a problem around finances, right? Interesting. Because there's some good people out there, and they're not some not so good people out there. Yeah. Yeah.

And so I think for sixes, though, on the upside, they are so earthy and practical. And they can live within a budget like one's can and fives can, right? Yeah. Two's, three, fours have a much harder time than ones and fives and six is like sticking to a budget. Okay. That's good. Yes. Yes.

Sevens. Having fun. Oh, man. The impulsivity, though, it can get them into so much trouble with money. And really, it can. Yes, yes. I have seen more credit card debt around sevens because it's like fun. Spontenity.

Let's go do this. Let's go do this. Let's take this trip. Let's have that meal. This is fine. We'll do it. Yeah. Yep.

I can see that. Now with eight. You know, these are people who will just, this is going to sound the wrong word, but it is the right one. Yeah. I have a lust for life. It's like gusto. That's what it is, gusto. You know, they just, oh, they're all in or they're all out.

They go big or they go home. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah. So they can gobble up life and money can fly out the door. But here's something to their credit. My daughter is an eight. Yep. The first thing she did when she left college, I mean, she was obsessed about it was no debt.

Interesting. Here's why. They don't want to be controlled by anybody else. Oh, that's good. They don't want to be controlled. Someone else telling them what to do. Or someone owning them, being at the mercy of the bank. No way, right? But they're excessive people. Excessiveness is a characteristic feature of AIDS. Everything is too much. They eat too much. They play too much. They exercise too much. They work too much. It's always too much. Too much can get expensive.

That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. Of anything. Yeah, tangible for sure. Last one, nines. So, nines, wonderful, sweetheart, they get easily distracted. Budgeting's hard for nines because they're easily distracted. They get going on a budget and then they suffer mission drift. They forget about it. They're a little disorganized. If they haven't done the work, you know, if they haven't gotten some self-awareness and done some work,

they're easily distracted and taken off task, you know. So I'm always telling nines, you need a to finish list. Not a to-do list. You need a to finish list. To go, yes. Yeah. Because isn't there a phrase with nines that they can like sleepwalk through life? Yeah.

Or as my wife likes to say, we nine start off slow and then we taper off. Okay, yes. So everything's just a little bit more. Hakuna Matata all the time. Yes. But Hakuna Matata can lead to stacks of bills on the dining room table that you started, half opened, and then you got distracted and went off to the kitchen to do something else. Yes, yes.

So every type has its own lens through which I think it understands and sees money. And we're just scratching the surface of what we could talk about. It's amazing how you can take what you've learned about yourself and not only avoid problems when it comes to your money, but know how you interact with it and why you see money the way you do. Seriously, dig into this stuff, understand who you are. It's so huge because I'm like in this crisis between like being a three and a seven. I've taken all the tests and all of it.

So anyways, we need to like analyze me. So let's do that next. All right. Okay, I hope you guys enjoyed that conversation with Ian because don't worry. there's more ahead. That's right. But I just wanted to stop for a second and just remind you again, bringing back to this idea of self-awareness and how huge it is, not only just in your life, but with your money, understanding why you handle money the way you do. It's going to help you form better money habits and just being self-aware is just, it's such a massive thing in life. So I love it.

I'm on a kick on it, obviously. And so next, Ian and I are going to dive in to me. That's right. You're about to hear like a counseling session because I've struggled between people. being a three or a seven. I've taken all the tests. It says I'm a three. I just, there's just things about it. I just don't, I don't see myself in. So I take the remaining part of the podcast and have like a personal counseling session with Ian Kron that you get to listen in on. So it's very heavy Rachel Cruz stuff. So just prepare yourself about me. I'm being very selfish in this time and I just want to talk all about me. So that's what you're going to hear. But again, it's, it's so great just to be enlightened in yourself. So if you have people in your life that you can talk to about yourself

and how they perceive you, because Ian makes a point here later on in the podcast about how we're not always the best at looking at ourselves. Sometimes we need other people to speak into that. And so, again, I took advantage of having the aneogram expert Ian Cronin. So this is the time diving in to figure out if Rachel Cruz is really a three. So hope you enjoy. Okay, Ian. We're going to talk about me for a second. Let's talk about you. I'm seriously so glad you're here because I, so we did, I've been doing this maybe two years,

an eagram stuff. And I'm not like, I'm not into the subtypes. Like I'm not like super deep into it, right? I mean, I know enough. But I've taken test after test, but it says that I'm a three. But here's what I struggle with, because you talked about this in the last segment, that threes, they confuse success and love. I don't know.

I just don't feel like. I'm a three. Like, I literally feel like if I didn't do this job, people in my life would still love me. Like, I don't, I don't feel like my identity is like, my relationships are dependent upon my, what I do and my job. Like, I really don't.

Right. Like I think about Winston, and I'm like, he loves what I do. He thinks I'm great at it. I feel very affirmed by him. I mean, if he listens to something, he'll text me, like, babe, that was so good. Like, he's a fan of, like, what I do.

But like, if I told him tomorrow, I wanted to stop, he'd be like, okay. And honestly, same with my dad. dad and I have had these like over 10 years of me working here. We've talked very openly and vulnerably about family business and being part of this. And I'm so confident that if I tomorrow was like, I don't want to do this job, my dad would, he would 100% still love me and be excited for me. Like, I mean, that, I think my mom, my in-laws, my best girlfriends, I don't know. I just don't feel like I'm not like so success oriented. Okay. Okay. Now go. That's my heart.

I'm thinking about. So what does that mean? Well, it could mean a lot of things, right? But let's sort of zero in on a couple of things. You thought that the second possible type you might be is a seven. Yes. Why is that? I love fun.

I love having fun. I love going places. I'm super extroverted, friendly. I love people. I love experiences. I'm always game to do stuff. So a seven avoids pain. I don't avoid pain.

I'm great with. digging into hard stuff, like, once I do counseling a lot. Like, I mean, I'm very comfortable in conflict and engaging in pain, which sevens aren't. So that's where I don't relate to a seven. How do you do with sadness? I don't feel like I have a lot of sadness in my life. That's not an emotion I go to very often. Here's the thing.

It really comes down to your unconscious motivation. Okay. So the unconscious motivation, you've already said, of a three, is a need to succeed. Yes. To appear successful and to avoid failure at all costs. For three. I don't like to fail, right? Like, I just launched my content.

journal. And if it like sold two copies, I mean, I'd be like, oh, crap, that wouldn't be good. Well, nobody likes to fail, right? But some people really don't like to fail. And threes really don't like to fail. So, for example, let's say you really did sell only two copies of that journal. Yes. A three would then write another book about how I succeeded at, you know, moving through the failure of my last book. I mean, like they will, they'll find a way to spin a failure into a success like that so that they don't have to have the appearance. of failure. Okay.

Do you know what I'm talking about? Yes, yes. It's the guy who falls from the heights as a CEO and then writes a book about what I learned from, you know, whatever it was that took me down, you know. Totally, totally. And they spin it into a success. Yes. Okay.

Let me say this. So here's a great example of where I could be a three. Okay. Because aren't you supposed to go to like your unhealthy, like when you're insecure and all of that and what comes out there? Yes. Is that a good place to determine your number? It won't hurt.

Yeah. You go to the low side of nine if you're a three. When you're not doing well, you still. start to be lethargic, you lay on the couch, you pay less attention to your appearance, you'd be watching television, you know what I mean, like kind of numbing out, you'll be, but you're very resilient as a three, you have a lot of energy, so you bounce back fast from defeat. Yes.

And then you'll be thinking like, okay, well, you know, how do we turn this into a success? And you get back out there and start working again. So I think my problem is I keep relaying my work to my three-ness. Or like when I hear success and all that. But that's, it could be true as a mom or a wife. So like, let me take work out because I think that's where I get muddled sometimes. Right. So threes.

A's have more energy than any other number on the Antigram. But the most productive number on the Antigram are threes. They are goal crushing machines. They care deeply about productivity. Yeah. They see opportunity before other people see it. And they know the quickest way to get to it. They see the path towards grabbing that piece of opportunity.

and just leveraging it fast than anybody else does. Yep. Right? Now, they're not necessarily as entrepreneurial as sevens are, right? But they are really, they're the most competitive. They're very ambitious. Threes are. Go-getters.

Yeah. Oh, yeah, wicked competitive. Yep. Right. Okay, so you know what a funny thing, Winston, I do sometimes. No. And we do it probably like, I'd say like at least four times a week. Right.

We'll be home, we'll be doing dinner and all of this. and I'll say, okay, my top three goals, what I want to accomplish. I want to unpack my suitcase. Right. I need to put my makeup up. Like, there's small goals, but I say out loud, okay, the two things I want to accomplish before I go to bed. And we'll like literally say out loud the things that we want to do before we go to bed.

So is that very three? Yes. But they're not lofty goals. It's not like I want to. You guys just like lists. Yeah, I do love. Oh, yeah. You know, you just got a list for everything because you just love it's like intoxicating

to check. to check something? Is that a three? That's very three-ish. Oh, crap, I'm a three. The number you least want to be is the number you are. Really? Yeah.

Yeah. Usually I tell people in workshops and stuff, I'll say, okay, now, when you start to feel squeamish, when I start describing a type, it's not unlikely that I'm stalking in your neighborhood and you're starting to feel like I may be getting too close to stuff. Now, you were focusing so much on the negative side, not the negative side, but the potential shadow or dark side of threeies. Yes. Don't do that.

Like, three is when they're healthy are like the most amazing human. Every number on the Antigram is beautiful. It's wonderful. Yes. When it's self-aware, they have self-knowledge, they're doing their work, and they're just aware. I can go to this dark place. I can become, you know, shallow. I can become a chameleon.

I can, you know, start to work a room to win admiration and success, you know. I'll go out and I'll buy the nice car. I'll go buy a big home. Anything to let people know, I'm, you know, a success, right? but that's not what a healthy three looks like. That's not like like, you know, you're locked into that as a pattern for the rest of your life. Once you know that that's a possible weakness, you can do all kinds of stuff to make sure you don't fall into the traps of it. Yes, yes.

When you're feeling great and you're healthy and self-aware, you will act or look like a healthy six. Oh, interesting. You're a team player. You don't need to drive the bus. You can just be another bozo on the bus, as we like to say. You are interested in seeing other people. people win, not just yourself. You're less concerned with flaunting your own success, but actually helping other people realize their own success. Yes. Are you thinking of three?

I never tell people what type. You don't? I know I don't. I'll tell people, you know, I think you ought to, you know, do some research around this type, you know. Now, you mentioned subtypes, and this is something I would. Okay, let's talk about that. Okay, let's talk about that for second. What subtypes are, what they teach is that there are really 27 types, right? There are nine core types. but three variations are hues, right? Okay, okay. Of each type. And oftentimes people can't figure out their type.

It's because really they need to look at subtypes of their type, right? So I would encourage you, go read three subtypes. And it's what, what are they going to? They're called self-preservation. Self-preservation. Social. Okay. Or bonding.

Okay. All human beings have three core instincts. One is for self-preservation or personal survival. Okay. Right? the second would be a social. They're all related to survival, by the way, right? Okay.

So the next one would be the social instinct, which is, where am I in relationship to the herd? You know what I mean? Like, where am I in the hierarchy of things? Interesting. Right? Yes. In the world, because you need to know where you are in the herd to survive.

Yeah. What's your relationship to it? The last one is bonding, right, which is, you know, you and that special other, right? That one-to-one relationship with another person. Yes. That, too, is related to survival, right? into, you know, the ongoing presence of your gene pool, right? Into the world, right?

Going forward, right? So now each of those has a different expression under each type, right? So it's really helpful for people to get down to that next level if they're still confused about their type. Okay, okay. Right? So it's, yeah, it's tremendously helpful. Can you ask you a question? Yes.

If Winston were sitting here right now, what would he say he most values about? you and what other people most value about you? He's always said, I am like, oh my gosh, what did he say? He said it actually in our vowels, which was so sweet. How did he word it? He said, she, oh, she makes my life easier. Why? Because I do think, I can get stuff done.

There it is. Okay. Productivity. Yes. Yeah. Right? You know, we tend to marry our deficits. That's probably true.

Right? So funny, yesterday we were talking about this interview, So I was like, Ian's coming on. And I was like, he has to like analyze me because I cannot. I was like, I just, God, I just am struggling. And he like started laughing. He's like, babe, you're like, you're a three. Like, I know you're not supposed to type other people, but he was like, you're not a seven.

You're a three, Rachel. And I was like, no, but I really. But he is like a hundred percent confident I'm a three. Because he was like in relationships, like in marriage. I mean, he was like, take work out of it. But like in every other facet, whether it's friendships, uh, parenting, whatever. Like, he's like, yeah, the threiness is. How patient are you with people who slow you down?

Oh, no. Yeah, no, I don't do that. Someone who's standing in the way of more productivity. Yeah, just get it done. See, so that's a very three feature, right? I'll let me give you an example of this, right? Okay. I won't say his name because we both know this person.

Oh, fascinating. I'm a three. I know that when I sit down with this person, I'm a four. I can talk feelings all day long. I'm a therapist. Yeah. You know what I was a songwriter. I write books.

I could talk feelings all day long, right? Yes. I know with this person, when I sit down with them, I have to go like this. how you doing? Doing great, man. How are you doing? Good.

And then I'll say literally something that's completely not my thing. Yes. I'll say, what do you want to talk about today and how much time do we have? It's good. Yes. And I just tune into the fact that this person is a three. They don't want to talk about my feelings. Yeah.

They don't want to read about the latest novel I'm reading. Yes. They have stuff to do. Yes. And so I just, because I know the Antigram, this is so helpful. I don't waste his time. Yes. And I don't create relational dissonance.

So I will say this, though, I do love to, like, talk, though. So, like, if I know, but I know I have a set amount of time. So, like, these shoots, for instance. We always block a lot of time for them. So I know there's just so much wiggle room that I'm like, we're going to get done early anyway. So, like, let's talk about the last episode of, you know, Breaking Bad that I just watched. Or whatever, like, do know anything. Because I love connection with people.

I do love to talk. Right. So there is that of me that's there. But I was in a meeting earlier, actually. And they had it blocked for a certain amount of time. and it just, like there was like 10 seconds where no one was saying anything. And I was like, what are we doing?

Like, let's, like, what are we doing? Yeah, what are we doing? Yeah. We're just sitting here. Yes. Well, threes are all about doing. It's all about doing. And getting stuff done.

And let's move on to the next project so that we finished that one. The next one comes zooming right into our, right in front. Yeah. So part of what the three has to learn is, I'm not what I do. Yes. that people can value me for who I am on the inside, not just for what I accomplished on the

accident. Yes. Okay. So this is my struggle with us. I believe that, though. Okay. I really do. Live with it for a while.

What do you mean? Well, try it on. Like, I tell people, okay, if you're unsure, make a point of observing yourself, like consciously observing your behaviors throughout the course of a day. Okay. And listen, you know, there are people who love you and are close to you, like Winston, who, you know, the problem with personality is it's with us all the time. Yes.

Right? Yes. And we're not transparent to ourselves. We're not fishbowls. You can't just look inside and go, oh, there's my type. You know, there's my unconscious motivations, right? Right. But the people around us who know us best can really help us figure out our type.

They can't be the source of, you know, only you can figure it out. Yes. But people who know you really well can really help you on the journey. And if Winston said three and you're. you know, I'd pay attention. Yes. That's what I did. I mean, that's how I've been living with being a three for like two years now

because everything I've taken is a three, but it's just been in the last like 60 days. I just keep reading about it. I'm like, I feel like they just care too much about what people think. I just don't feel like how I functioned like that a lot. So that was my struggle. Well, you know, maybe you don't. I mean, you may be a three that, you know,

not every single characteristic of a type needs to be met in order for you to be that type. So in other words, Okay, that's fair. If you meet 70% of the criteria for three, I think you're a three, probably a three. Okay, that's fair. That gives me permission to like... No one ever is going to fulfill every...

So if you know, and also remember this, this is super important. You contain all nine types within you. Yes. You're just dominant in one type. That's good. But there are times when I'm a perfectionist. You know, there are times when I, you know, catch me in a traffic jam. You'll see an eight challenger come out real fast.

Totally, totally. Yes. And I'm a real. five when it comes to music. Yes. You know what I say? In other words, we have all in that, but I tend to default to a four's worldview and characteristic patterns of acting, thinking, and feeling.

I mean, maybe 70% of the criteria for a four, 80%. You know what I mean? Yeah, totally, totally. But there are totally descriptions of fours where I'm like, I don't relate to this, I don't relate to that. I do relate to this. I don't relate to this. I don't relate to.

So again, it's really just the preponderance of evidence. Where does it lie? Yes. Most of it lies on three. them you're an owner. Okay, so like, here's something else that I don't feel like I'm a three at. And you tell me that's okay. It says that we like are, we can like, we bring work on vacation.

I read that somewhere. Right. I mean, I'm great. But do you work at your play? Say again? Do you work at your play? Do I work at my play? Like, in other words, can you lay around the cottage all day long and do nothing and like,

you know, watch, you know, old episodes of Gilmore girls? At the beach, yes. That's good. That's healthy. Is that fun? I mean, yeah. Like, I can bend, like if we literally had nothing to do on a Saturday. and the girls were sleeping, and I have two hours,

binge watching something on Netflix is like, I love it. But that doesn't feel very three-like. All I can tell you is, I think people want fast answers, right? You are a human being. You have a deep soul. You are a mystery to yourself and to other human beings. Neither the Enneagram nor the Strengths Finder or Disc or Myers-Briggs or anything else can plumb the depths of who you are as a human being.

Yeah. Right? These are low-resolution pictures of people. Okay? It's fair. So it takes time to sort of, and you have to be patient in a world that says, no, I want to take the five, you know, question test to figure out my personality. It's like, I'd kind of be insulted at five questions, couldn't actually nail down my personality.

You know what I'm saying? I'd be like, wow, that seems like I'm basically and, you know, talk about shallow, right? Or like easy to pick. No, the aneogram is for personal transformation and development of self-knowledge. The very fact that you are struggling with it actually fulfills the mandate of the endogram, which is to deepen yourself knowledge, you're doing the work. Yes. You will land on it.

Trust me. Yes. You'll have a moment when you go, bang, that's my type. Yeah. It took me, like I said, took me 10 months. And but I will say this. People say, well, why don't you just do something faster? Go take some fast test and you know what I got, well, you get what you pay for in life.

And if you want to do the work, I'm just telling you what I've gained from knowing the endogram and the effort I put into it has been, I mean, the gain has been incalculable. Yeah, totally. That's so tremendous. It's so helpful. And people say it all the time, but it's true. It puts words to relationships and people, and it just gives you this language that I haven't had before. So, yeah.

Can I ask you another question? Yes. How much of an, you don't think you're an eight, right? No, but I do love a, I mean, I can, like, I can get into it with people, and it doesn't bother me. Do you think I'm an eight? No. No, I don't. You're an assertive type for sure.

And three sevens and eights are very, very astern. And other types. Now, I feel, when I feel safe in a relationship, I can go to conflict all day. I'm sure that's quite true as most people. But like, no, I don't. Oh, okay, okay, okay. So if I feel safe. No, no, we have conflict in my house, I retreat.

Okay. Yeah, if I feel safe in our relationship, I'm like, I'm great with it. I can like. Winston's not there. No. He's a withdrawing type. He's a processor. He's a processor.

Right. Yes. But he's a withdrawing type. But he will, though. Yes. We. Not as fast as you will. No.

No. Takes more deliberation. Yes. Probably needs to tell you to stop talking and I need more time to think about it. I have to think, yes. And he'll come back with a really great thing. And I'm like, ooh, that's good to think about. But our fights are not, we do not yell.

We're not yellers. Right. It's actually pretty like. Measured. It is. It really is. I mean, we are frustrated. And at the end, if we say we've got to go counseling for this, we know that we can't solve it on our own.

Right. We will. But like, yes. But yeah, he's measured for sure. And he's thought through it and he knows. Right. Yes. Well, that was so fun.

Ian, how much do I owe you for this? Good therapy. Okay, I'm a three. I'm owning it now. Well, own it for a while. See if it fits. Yes. So great.

Guys, if you've not checked out, Ian's book, The Road Back to you, make sure to do that. His podcast, Typology, is phenomenal and he has a new assessment out. Tell us about that. Yeah, the IEQ-9 is the most accurate. I think comprehensive anneagram assessment available. And they can get it by going to my website, egonorgoncron.com. And they can just go to the tab that says IEQ9.

There's two levels, standard and pro version. I'm amazed at how great the thing is. Oh, I can't wait. I want to take it to figure out for sure solidified that I'm a three, but I'm getting there. I'm getting there. Thanks, Ian, for coming. Well, hope you guys enjoyed this podcast. It was so fun.

I can say selfishly for me, getting to have. that conversation, but I hope you enjoyed listening in. To get anything from this episode, make sure to click the link in the show notes. And as always, if you feel the need to leave a review, we welcome that. And make sure you subscribe to the podcast so you automatically get these episodes right to you. You don't have to go search for them. It's the best. It's convenient. We love it. And remember to take control of your money and create a life you love. So if you guys enjoyed this podcast, we have more from the Ramsey Network, like the Ken Coleman Show. According to a recent Gallup poll, nearly 70% of Americans are disengaged at work.

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