The Rachel Cruze Show - How Talking About Money Can Actually Bring You Closer

Episode Date: December 3, 2025

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So today I have Nero Fliciano on the show, and I'm so excited about this, you guys. She was on with me a few months ago, and she's absolutely incredible. She's a psychotherapist, and the way that she processes when it comes to relationships and even anxiety, boundaries, all the things, she just brings such incredible tactical wisdom to our lives. And I love her personally, so the fact that we got to sit down and have this conversation I was so excited about, because with her, I really wanted to dive into relationships and money. And so we're going to talk all through friendships, kids and money, spouses, all the above.

So make sure to like, subscribe, and share this episode with the friends. And here's our conversation. Welcome back. Thank you. I know. Thanks for being back. And so last time you were on, we talked about the holidays and all of that. But now I really want to dive in with you during this time to talk about money and relationships.

Because, I mean, I'm not kidding, how many questions I get, either via social media or on the Ramsey show, so much. around relationships and money. And this could be adult kids, talking about their parents, marriage, their own kids. I mean, fiancés, you know, I mean, it's just all over the place. Money is just this hot button topic for people. And some people find it really hard to talk about anyways. Okay, why, I think I have my reasons, which yours are probably way better from like a, from a therapist standpoint, though. But for real, why is money, it seems like such a sore subject.

And maybe you could lump religion in there, sex in there too. I mean, I think there's hard subjects everywhere. But money for some reason is a weird one. Well, I sat and thought about this on a deeper level because I was thinking about it. Okay, why is it so hard to talk about? Why is it something that we have questions about all the time, but we don't necessarily voice them? Money is so intricately tied to identity. Right?

And that's why it gets so personal. Yes. And you look at just two examples of people who grew up with people. with many people who did not. It shapes the lens in how we see the world, and what we think is possible, in our self-worth, in how we feel validated, and also what we think of in terms of possibilities

that are even in the realm of possibility for each individual. And it can be drastically different depending on your views about money and how you grew up. We also attach a set of beliefs to money, right? So say you look at someone with a lot of money, all of a sudden there's certain beliefs that are attached to that person. That's so true or not. A stereotype about them. Stereotype, right? And people who don't have money. And especially if you look at people who have gone from not having money to having money, they often feel like an identity crisis. Right? They feel like they don't know who they are. And all of a sudden people think differently about them. They treat them differently. So there's so many layers to that. Why is it so complicated? Yes. But I think those are some of the components. Okay, do you think, because I say this sometimes, so no pressure.

You can say I'm wrong. But I'll say a lot of times in some of our events, if I have to contrast the two, I always tell people, or I always use the example of money's not a scorecard. It's not your identity. It can't be. Because if it is, then we end up twisted into all these other things. But it's a tool. Like it is a thing in our lives that's there. Some people have more of this, a bigger tool, some people not as much.

But we get to use that tool for our lives. And I almost try to, like, take out that level of identity because I think I see it being so disruptive. Right. But as you were talking, I was like, okay, it is so tied to our identity. But is that always, do you think that's, is that a bad thing? Should it be? Should it not be?

I don't know, from like a therapist standpoint. Oh. Do you have an opinion about it? Yeah. I don't think it should be. Okay. But I think it is for many people. Yes.

And I think the way you described it is a healthy use of money, a healthy person. Okay, thank God. I was like, yeah, maybe it really is. No, no. I think that's the goal, right? That's the goal that it isn't. It's a tool. But it has become very much tight, tight identity.

And again, I mean, we talked a little bit about social media on the last episode. Yeah, yeah. But I think that's a piece of it too. Because our lives have become so performative, right? 100%. So it is very clear to see who has money and who doesn't. Yes, yes. doesn't mean that those who don't aren't offering something incredible even on social media, right?

Right, right. Totally. Not to say. Well, what's so messed up is the people that look like they have it may not even have it. That's exactly right. You know what you mean? So then you have this perception of like everybody must be doing great. Yes.

And I'm the only one struggling. Yes. That's right. That's right. That's right. How is this happening? Yes. Yes.

Oh, my God. It's a false perception. So the one relationship that I feel like I talk about the most and see the most when it comes is marriage. Yes. And so it is always. money's always in the top of the top five, top three. Sometimes it's the number one reason of separation and divorce.

It's usually number one. Yes. In America, yes. And so when we look at that and again here at Ramsey, I think because we're like in it so much and we hear so many issues and people's problems, we like quickly can identify majority time it's not a money problem. It's a marriage problem. It is.

And it's coming out as a money problem. But what causes, what do you think that tension point? Does it go back because it's our idea? and we are usually so opposite as spouses? Or why do you think it is always the number one reason? I think, again, multifactorial, right? Sure. We can start with family of origin, our beliefs about money, how we were we raised,

were we raised in that scarcity mindset or an abundance mindset. And then whatever that looked like, that becomes our normal. That's our baseline. Yes. So all of a sudden we think, okay, this is the way is, this is the way the world works. And then we marry somebody or we're in a relationship with somebody who is totally opposite beliefs. Yeah. all of a sudden, because there is that piece that's tied to identity, or at least our beliefs

and how we see the world, someone's telling us you're wrong. That's not how it is. That isn't how it works. It's very threatening. It's very scary. It's very threatening. And it feels very personal, especially if money triggers anxiety. That person becomes a huge trigger for our discomfort, you know.

And it affects, we have to deal with it every day, right? Yep. Yep. So it's a constant. And then we also have the fact that different people have different goals. when it comes to money, different hopes. And that may be reflected in our values too. So we're talking about things that are deeply personal, deeply psychological.

So when we put them on the table, there's a lot of vulnerability there. And if it's not met with encouragement and empathy and understanding, which how many times we have money conversations where that's a part of the creation? Totally. It can feel very intense. Very intense, brings up all the intense emotions, anger, hurt, sadness. And ultimately, we might walk away feeling like, you don't understand me. Yes.

And then we go back to this idea of scarcity, but not in the sense of, you know, the way we often talk about it. But people having those conversations feeling like, I'm not enough or I don't do enough, you know. Or maybe you don't do enough. That's what my feeling is about you. So, I mean, all of those things. It's super much. It's heightened emotions and complex. Yes.

So, yes. So unless we have those tools to. just have these conversations in general about anything in the marriage. Unless we have them, they're especially needed when it comes to the topic of money. Yes. So, yeah. So interesting, because it is always, it's kind of what you said, but I think it is so true. It's always rooted to something deeper, right? And so it's like, oh my gosh, I can't believe you bought the name, brand toilet paper from college. Why did you spend 15 when we could, oh my, you know. That's right. And it's like, what is, like, and what I found. Is it about the toilet paper? That's right. Exactly. Yes. And so I, and

It's all of marriage. And I feel like Winston and I are not perfect by any means. But one thing we have been working on so much is not being like, well, you, I can't believe you did X, Y, and Z. But to really try to, and it doesn't always work. It's not always perfect. But to try to understand, like, what made, I call it wooching. Are you like, whoosh?

Yes. I'm like, I just wooosh. I was like, oh, my gosh, you know. That just made me like, tin-term. I know. Wish, I know. We're wishing. It describes it well.

But I'm like, if that ever comes through me, and I'm such an urgent person. so I immediately want to start verbalizing. But just to take a beat and be like, okay, what was that? Why? And can I do any self-reflection, like, down to the root cause? And I think when you do that... So healthy. Well, and it doesn't always happen.

But also the scary thing is when you find that, and if it's kind of a new revelation of like, oh gosh, I never thought I was insecure about that, or, you know, fill in the blank, to then bring that to another person. To your point, you pray that it is met with empathy and more questions to be asked, curiosity, you know, that type of bent, which my spouse is, Winston's wonderful in that way, but for anybody, that's even scarier, right? It's almost easier to blame the

toilet paper. That's right. Then deal with your own stuff. Yes. Yeah. So how much is that, right? When that conflict arises in marriage, how much of it is our stuff versus there are situations when we get crazy called sometimes of like, oh, my husband took out at all. all the money from the 401k and now we have no money. And you're like, okay, that's crazy. Of course you're going to be crazy. That's a different scenario. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So the, not the extremes, but more of that, like, kind of middle ground. So important because it doesn't just come out in money. It comes out everywhere. Yes. You know, the root is the same. The manifestation of the root takes various forms, right? And money is one of those forms. We may see it more clearly because it has such a direct impact on our daily life and our

bigger picture life. But, yeah, we have to sit there and see. What is coming up right now as I'm having this conversation? And even questions like, why do I feel like it's important to buy that toilet paper, right? And what else am I doing that is similar in the same vein where whatever it is that your spouse is not in agreement? So, and part of why that is so good is I always say when you go into a conversation, especially in marriage, you've got to own your own stuff first. Yes. A lot of times we come in able to see perfectly what's wrong with the other person.

Oh, yeah. Right? I mean, that is so clear to us. Yes. But if we start with owning what we can own, it automatically takes defenses down. And that gives us more potential to have a productive conversation and come up with a solution. Yes, that's so good. All right. More of my conversation with Nero here in a minute.

But first, I do want to tell you about one of our sponsors, Christian Healthcare Ministries. More than a hundred million Americans carry medical debt, which shows traditional coverage often leaves people to face big bills alone. Families need more than coverage. They need community. And that's why I love Christian Healthcare Ministries, a budget-friendly faith-based alternative to health insurance. There are no networks, no insurance headaches, and programs start at $98 a month. Go to CHministries.org slash budget to learn more. And you guys, when you're working the baby steps, your bank shouldn't be working against you, which is why I love Fairwin's credit union. They share Ramsey values like getting out of debt, saving for the future, and putting people first.

Their smart checking and savings bundle was designed to line up with the baby steps. So if you're ready to move your money somewhere that supports your financial goals, fair wins is what you've been looking for. Just head to fair wins.org slash Ramsey to open your smart checking and savings bundle today. So with our kids, when we're thinking about our kids, people ask me a lot. Like, oh my gosh, how do I teach my kids about money? and what do I tell them about situations. And we were just talking about right before this,

that, yeah, I always use this phrase, share, but don't scare. I love that. And so you do have to be, like, really discerning of what that is for each kid, right? Because it's not really even an age thing, but, you know, emotionally, like, what can they handle? So what would you say to a family

that maybe financially they're going through, like, a hardship? And they're at this point where they're like, we're going to have to make some hard decisions. Our lifestyle's going to have to change some. Or maybe they have been, quote, unquote, fine, but maybe they're trying to get out of debt. They're like, listen, we're going to sacrifice our lifestyle in order to do this. But if there's changes with money and more in a quote-unquote negative way, more taking away for the kid's lifestyle, how do you approach that with your kids?

How would you say to have these conversations? Because you want them to be mindful. And I think it depends on the age of the kid and the developmental readiness to have these conversations. And really what that reflects is how much detail. are we going to share? Right? Yes, that's right. Yeah.

If they're a really young kid, you might not want to talk about the fact that you just got laid off yesterday, right? Whereas an older kid might be able to handle it. But I think at the end of the day, any conversation that has potential to affect kids emotionally, you want to start with where they're at and what they know. So maybe they've already seen changes. Maybe they've seen a parent around all the time. Asking questions is good.

You know, what do you think about, you know, what you're seeing, right? right now at home. But I think it's important to be transparent about that. And you want you want them to understand, especially as they're going into adulthood, there are changes that are going to happen in life. And we can adapt to those changes, right? It's not the end of the world. You want to reassure them that certain things are not going to change. So you might want to start with that even. We're together as a family. There's amazing things that we're going to do. We're going to have fun. These are the things that we're going to continue to do. We may have to make changes when it comes to, you know, whatever it is. I mean, for some families, it's, you know,

just basic discretionary spending. We're not going to Starbucks every week or whatever it is that they do. Totally. But that's okay. And there might be a time where we can do that again. Yes. But for now, we're going to, you're going to, we're going to all do this together as a family. Yes. Maybe there is that financial goal. You know, maybe there's a financial reward at the end of it, too, where they can look ahead to say, if we do this now, then we can look forward to this in the the future. Yeah. And what that does too is when you do have to, whether it's your own choosing or not, pull back on some of just the quote unquote spending and stuff, it almost declutters, right? In a sense, your life and what you've been doing. And then you can kind of actually get back

to this route of family and connection and all of this. So with that side, more of like that emotional side of life and money, our kids walk through so much like comparison. They see. I mean, and I know that like we had, I had some of this even in high school, but, and I hate to like compare generations, but I'm like, mine was like a $15 Abercrombie t-shirt or something. We talk about this all the time. And now it's like, I mean, $79, you know, yoga pants, you know, or whatever it is. To Sephora when they're 10 years old, you know? Yes, yes, yes. I mean, it's just, it seems like more expensive and bigger even now for the kids today.

So for parents, how do you parents in today's world? I mean, I can talk all day about budgeting and like all of that. But like when it comes to like the heart issues and all of that, how do you coach parents in that? Number one, you have to model it. You know, you have to look at the messaging in your household. You're telling them not to compare. They don't have to have everything. But are you trying to keep up with everybody around you?

Are you talking about what that person looks like or what they have? Yeah, the conversations, can I tell you? That's what's wild. What they pick up on. I know I always heard that. Be like, oh my gosh, your kids pick up on everything. Now, unbelievable. So yeah, I think your conversation, what you're saying?

they are assuming you're valuing that. You have to model it. Actually, this was what my first book was about. This book won't make you happy. It was all about contentment. Yes. And comparison is big in that realm, right? I mean, it takes us away from contentment really fast.

100%. But I think that's a piece of it. And the other thing is comparison, I mean, in some ways it's gotten a bad rap. I mean, there is the psychological process called a heuristic that utilizes comparison in a very healthy way. In a good way. Yes. To make decisions.

Yes. But the problem is we're always doing what's called upward social comparison, not downward. So we're always looking at people who have more, do more, are better, but not the reverse. And this is also where I think volunteer and service is so important as a family and for your kids. And I'll give you an example when I took my daughter to college recently. Yes, you know. We walked into a room. It was tiny. Rachel, this room was tiny.

And not only that. Is she sharing it too? She's sharing with someone else. Yes. But the bathroom is in their room. and it's attached to a triple, and those girls have to come into their room to use a bathroom.

So I was looking at it like, oh my gosh, and trying not, you know, trying to be positive about it. Totally so much. I was like, it's small. And she goes, mom, like, I've done ASP. That's the Appalachian Service project. She and my husband and her brother go every year. And she's like, I've seen how those people live.

Like, this is fine. This is fine. She said that to me. Unbelievable. So it gets in their psychology. you have to expose them to other things other than the bubble that they're living in. Yes. And that makes a difference.

So good. Oh, my gosh. A good use of comparison. Yeah, for sure. 100%. Okay, I love the upward. I've never heard that, though. Yes.

The upward comparison. That's so true, though. I always kind of take it in the negative. Sure. Because it's that. But versus, yeah, that's so good. And the upward can inspire us, right? 100%.

Yeah. And there's always still a level of, oh, and I wish I remember who wrote this. sorry, author that I'm not going to quote you on, of like, like, it's natural, like, even tribe instinct of, like, where do I, just from like a survival standpoint. Right. So, I mean, like, there's a part of it that's just so innate, but it's when it gets excessive. Yeah. And when we start driving our own decisions.

That's right. Because of everyone else. Right? Like, there starts to be a point. Okay. So let's talk about another relationship, friends. So this is like, it's a different world, I feel like a little bit too, as we talked about, like what our kids are growing up in, but even today.

So I hear from people a lot of, like, I hear from people a lot of, like, I'm. I'm in a wedding and I have a bachelor's party and I have, or a trip. Not even a, yeah. Oh, it's a trip. It's a trip. These showers and all of us, it's like the wedding expenses. And then, you know, you can have the babies. I'm at the age.

I'm going to show my age. Like the 40th, you know, birthdays are happening. And they've been happening for a few years, like with this span. There are trips with those. But now there's trips, yes, the 50. I mean, it's just, I think they're going to people 30 now or 10. I don't know. It's just, it feels like there's a lot.

Yeah. of money being spent, and it's wonderful and fun if you have the ability to do it. But when you look at your budget and you're like, I can't be in four of my friends' weddings to do X, Y, and Z, or I can't fly to the city because my best friend's having her baby, you know, whatever it looks like, friendship seems to be costing more and more. And so. Friendships are expensive sometimes. Yes.

So, and I know, obviously, if you have a great friend, my prayer is that people have the friends that if you say I can't do it, that they, number one, understand, number two, maybe find a work around, or, you know, whatever, like, that's a perfect scenario. But if people are in, in relationships with other people friendships and they feel like, I don't know how I'm going to say no to this, that friends is not going to be happy. Even they feel guilty, you know, maybe for not going. How do we navigate friendships when there is such a big price tag these days? Yeah, I think that's a really great question because we're seeing it everywhere. Yes. And I mean, one thing you said, I hope people have these great friendships so they can say no.

If it is a great friendship, they will understand. And if it's not, why you spend it all this money on that person who's not going to understand? And I think this is the point where a lot of friendships change and a lot of friendships end. I mean, I've seen so many people who are no longer friends after the wedding because of all of the, I mean, the bride's expectations and when they were not met and the fallout from that. Yes. So you have to, and friendships change every seven years, you know, we're. We're going to gain friends, lose friends. Wasn't there like a seven-year marriage itch for a while?

Wouldn't the thing with marriage shoot? Yes. We're both over that. But friendship has a seven-year cycle. Because we change and we evolve and we may not connect as deeply with friends. If they're not evolving in the same direction that we are. And if our friendship was based on things that ultimately are not that consequential as you get older. So I think when, if you are uncomfortable saying no,

maybe take a read of who else is going and have that conversation with someone else and say, you know, I don't think I can do this. And I'd really want to do it, but I can't do it. That's a perfectly nice, kind way that you can bring it up to someone and say, I love you so much. And I want to be there and do this. But financially, it's going to be a lot for me. I would love to participate in this. I'm not going to be able to do that.

Yes. Right. And if they're a great friend, amazing. And if they're not, maybe that's when you realize, hey, All right, well, then I'm justified in not investing this. Sometimes it's not wanting to feel left out, right? So that may not be a great friend, but the FOMO is real. Yes, yes.

And that's a deeper issue then that you have to deal with because that's going to affect other areas of your life as well. But I think it's always easier if there is one person in the group who you can share that with. And usually you're not the only one. That's feeling that way. That's not. And I think we just have to give people permission to say, you can say no.

It's okay. This is a lot to put on people, especially with the way life costs in general. 100% to add on top of this. I know. It is. Like, yeah, these questions that I'll get sometimes from people in like scenarios, which I that's one thing I love about social media is. People like let you into their life.

They do. They're like, hey, what do you think about this? Yeah. I'm not able to get to all of them. But you read them. Yeah. And sometimes I'm like, I just want to give you a hug because Sarah is terrible. That's like, you know, this friend that's like making you feel X, Y, and Z because

you have to say no. So horrible. Right. But. It's more common than I think. I do live in like a friendship bubble probably. But yeah, it feels like, I mean, it feels so real for people. Yeah.

And it's really sad because I think that's the point, too, is you kind of can get to this point with a person and you hate that money is the quote-unquote reason. But like we said, even with the merits, it's not even the money's the filter at which you're seeing it. But yeah, that person doesn't really value you. No, I know. And I think, you know, as you get older, hopefully you have more friends because you've learned along the way. who will have your back in those situations and will understand. Yes.

I mean, I've been on both sides of the equation. There are times, I'm not doing that. You know, I totally can't do that right now. And then I've had people also say, hey, you know what, that's pricey. And in that situation, the friends are good friends. We look for other things that we can do. That's right. And that's a perfectly reasonable expectation to have if they are your good friends.

Yes. Right? Or they will not be offended if they are good friends. Yeah. And if they are going to be offended and if they are going to leave you out and if they are going to treat badly because of it, maybe it's time to invest your time and energy and other relationships. Somewhere else. Yeah. About a Sarah. Right. Right. We may not need you. We may not want her in. Well, thanks for coming back. Thank you. I know. This was so fun. I just love, seriously. All your wisdom. You're incredible. And yours too. Oh, well, thank you. I don't know. You've. You have a lot, though. It's great. Okay, and where can people want to see more of you? Where can they find you? Well, on Today.com, if you put my name in,

you'll see a lot of the things that I've written about and talked about, but also on my website, Neurofaciano.com and on Instagram. Perfect, so great. All right. Well, you guys make sure to check out everything that she's doing, and we'll put some of those links down below. Now, be sure to check out the episode I did with Nero

when we talked all about holidays and when it comes to boundaries and having margin, all the things. So make sure to click right here to watch that or if you're listening on podcasts, I will leave a link below. All right, you guys, remember to take control of your money and create a life you love.