The Rachel Cruze Show - How to Afford Your Adoption

Episode Date: October 28, 2019

Have you ever dreamed about the possibility of adopting, but then thought, Well, I couldn’t afford that? I think adoption is awesome, but I know it can be super expensive. It’s a deeply personal conviction, and money shouldn’t be the obstacle that’s holding you back. If adoption is something you’re considering, I want to help you do it debt-free. In this episode of The Rachel Cruze Show, you’ll learn: Author and speaker Lisa Harper’s emotional journey walking through the international adoption process as a single woman Extremely practical steps and creative ways (that really surprised me!) to raise money for your adoption from author Julie Gumm My personal dream and goals surrounding adoption Even if you think adoption isn’t for you, you probably know someone who could use the valuable information in this episode! My guests this week really opened my eyes to new ways to make adopting a child a possibility for anyone, so go ahead and forward this to your friends!  Resources (everything mentioned in this episode): Zander Insurance Lisa Harper’s Website Julie Gumm’s Website My Favorite Budgeting App   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It is a heart-wrenching process, but we're called to it as Christ's followers. Lisa Harper, her story is phenomenal. If he's called you to it, he'll make a way. Author Julie Gum, she adopted two kids internationally and did it debt-free. If this is something you really want to do, there's a way for you to do it without going into debt. Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the Rachel Cruise Show podcast. I am so glad that you're here. Now, for several months now, my team and I have been wanting to do an episode.

on this topic because we have seen it pop up so many times in our Facebook group. And the topic is adoption. Yes, I'm so excited about this because I love the heart behind adoption. I mean, I think it is amazing. And even if you're not planning on adopting personally, I bet you know someone who wants to make this part of their story. So I really think there's some great takeaways in here for everyone. But the thing about adoption is it costs money. Yep. And usually a lot. of money. So in this episode, I'm going to be bringing on one of my favorite authors and speakers, Lisa Harper, to share her amazing adoption journey with us, and also author Julie Gum, who wrote the book on how to adopt debt-free. But first, I wanted to tell you about my own plans for

adoption. Listen, adoption is a very personal choice, and I think that some people have a deep conviction and call on their life to do it, which is incredible. And some people don't. And neither one is right or wrong. But for me, as a believer, I know a part of our job is to take care of widows and orphans. And there's so many ways to do that. So for Winston and I, we have a goal in the next 10 years that we would actually love to pay for someone's adoption. And that's our 10-year goal is to be able to do that for someone, which is just so amazing to think about. And I think that it's fun because I'm like, that could be a reality for us to be able to bless another family because of the money habits that we are doing today, like day in and day out. We're being intentional

with our money, which includes our monthly budget. Thank you every dollar. But also, on top of that adoption goal that we have, we attend a church that one of their main missions is foster care. I didn't know a ton about foster care, but the more they talk about it, the more enlightened I am in the subject where it's crazy, you guys. In the U.S., there's over 100,000 kids in the foster care system who are ready to be adopted. Listen, there are so many problems in our world and our country that it seems like it's impossible to fix because it takes so much bureaucracy and laws and like all the stuff. But foster care, like this is something that really can be solved. Now, if you can't open up your home to a child, there are so many other ways, though, that we can

support foster and adopted families, things like babysitting, rides, meals, even helping out with laundry and household chores. Again, I know this is a really big topic. So whether you're interested in adopting locally or internationally, I want you guys to hear from someone who has walked through the international adoption process. You may be familiar with her. She's incredible. again, one of my favorite authors and speakers, Lisa Harper, her story is phenomenal. So check out. Lisa, thanks for coming on. Oh, I'm so tickled you having me. I was excited just to see. Oh, well, I know you're like travel the world. You're like preaching the gospel, doing great things. But part of your story that I love is that you're an adopted mama.

And so, yes. So your story's incredible and I'm familiar with it. But for those people that aren't, tell me a little bit just about the adoption, your adoption story. Well, let me go back to the, because it's a table of two cities, best of times and worse of times. Worse of times is I was hot mess on a stick when I was younger. Kind of looking for love in all the wrong places. So didn't get married because I was attracted to Yehuis. And then the few good guys I dated, God protected them from me because that was such a mess. And then suddenly, you know, I found myself in my 40s and went, oh, gosh, I always thought I would be a mom.

But there are consequences to sin. There were so many toxic relationships. And so I didn't think I'd get to be a mom. And then I had several different people in my life who spoke in my life about adoption, not saying you should adopt. I just kept hearing that theme. And you know when you feel like, okay, Lord, you've even put it in a refrigerator magnets. Like maybe this is something I should pray about.

It's constant. Exactly. And so I didn't think I'm pretty conservative, theologically, I didn't think I had the right to be a mom because of some of my sin in the past, but also the fact that I was single and older. So I prayed about it a lot, met with a ton of people. people about it. My, I'm job security for my counselor, talk to her about it. And then I thought, you know, there's 147 million-ish orphans in the world as we know it today. And yeah, best case

scenario, in my opinion, a child gets a mom and a dad. But there are millions and millions of kids who will die for infancy in third world countries, orphanages, age out and foster care in the States. And so I just began to kind of put out some feelers and say, if there's a child who doesn't have a shot or a good chance at a mom and a dad, then maybe a fluffy single mom in Tennessee would be a better option. Started praying about it and through just a series of miracles, first of all, I lost two adoption attempts that were just heart-wrenching.

Is that rather common in the adoption process? Very common. Yeah, you hear that. Very common. And then a friend called me and said, I just lost an adoption two weeks before, was grieving, felt like my heart was, you know, on the interstate had been hit by trucks. And she said, Lisa, I know you're still grieving the loss of you've been through.

She knew the child's name. It was at the 11th hour. It was right for us to bring the baby home. And she said, but I just got home from Haiti. And while I was in Haiti, one of the young moms in the village I was visiting died of AIDS, undiagnosed AIDS. And she left behind a two and a half year old who has HIV and tuberculosis and cholera and host of other issues. And the doctors are saying this baby won't live. She was two years old at the time for two months. If somebody, really anybody, doesn't stand in the gap for her. And she said,

while we were in the hospital, God just put your name in my heart. And she said, would you be willing to pray about this? And I said, nope. I said, I've been praying about this for 30 years, signed me up. And then I got off the phone and said a word that wasn't in the Bible. Because I thought, Goodness. I don't know how to do this. And then six weeks later, I was in Haiti, and they put her in my arms. She didn't like me at all at first because I was just so big and so pale. And she kind of regarded me with suspicion for a while.

But then, I mean, Rach, I can still remember like it was yesterday. Her reaching up, she's tiny, really, really sick. And she grabbed my pinky finger and just stared at me and went, hello, Mama Blanc. And she means hello, white mama. And I was like, stick a fork in me, I'm done. And it took two years from that moment for me to actually get to bring her home to Nashville. And it was really hard and really beautiful.

And she is now 10 years old and healthy as a horse. And other than Jesus, she is the most amazing thing in my life. I mean, she is, and I've met her a few times in person, but even just like following you on Instagram, right? I'm like, just seeing her, whether it's in person or just via, my phone, like the joy that this little girl has, Lisa, it is unbelievable. And so, like, is really joyful? And so, I mean, is that, is that just her? Like, how is she now? I mean, it's just like, you're radiant. I told somebody the other day, I said, I feel like Missy has been kind of a flower blooming out of cement because she, she definitely had a spark.

She's a survivor. That's how she survived when she was little in Haiti. She had a spark when I first met her, but she was more wary than joyful because she didn't have a whole lot to be joyful for. And it's been the coolest thing to get to watch her unfold. God wired her to be joyful. And she's, you know, very effervescent. She's just, of course, I'm pathologically biased, but she's the most amazing kid besides yours. She is. We'll call that a tie. Thank you. We'll call that a time. But yeah, she's a really, she's a, she is a really joyful kid. And she's become more and more so the safer and the more life she's received. Yes, so good. Oh my gosh. Okay, so talk to me about like the international adoption process. How was that for you? You know, and I wasn't,

a lot of people go, oh, you must have prayed about Haiti. And I'm like, no. I just was like, Lord, direct my steps. I'm not that smart. You're going to have to make it real clear. So I wasn't, I mean, I was just open to a child that didn't have a shot at a mom and a dad. And the two adoptions I lost were or domestic, not international. And I've never been to Haiti. I've been on a ton of mission trips. People assume that's what got it started. And I was like, no, I'd never been to Haiti.

It was just this opportunity that presented itself. International adoption, for my experience, and I have a ton of friends in the adoption community, there's a few more wrinkles involved just with, you know, the fees and it's a little more expensive going back and forth. So they're different. You know, there are apples and oranges, but I feel like God makes it clear whatever you're called to. I have friends who've adopted out of foster, who've fostered, who've adopted domestically, who've adopted privately, who adopted internationally.

And so whatever God's called you to, I think he makes those steps clear. Yeah, so good. So kind of off that point, you know, it can be a somewhat of a trend of adoption. Like there was kind of this like flood, I feel like the past few years of people doing it more. Kind of people, magazine, Star Tracks, yeah. Yeah, right, right. So my question to you is, you know, what encouragement would you give someone to make, like, kind of checking themselves of, hey, this is a true calling conviction. Right.

On your life that's been put on you versus just thinking, oh, you know, this sounds fun. Right. Right. Okay. I'm going to go for it. Right. I think a couple of things. I think, theologically, and I know you talk about this all the time and your dad and everything I'll do at Ramsey Solutions.

You know, God makes his will clear. He's not trying to punk us. he tells us he'll tell us when to turn to the left and when to turn to the right. But you have to seek counsel. You have to seek, you know, his spirit through prayer. You have to, it has to be confirmed through his word. So I think if you have God's word, you pray and the Holy Spirit continues to say yes, yes, yes. And you've got two or three mature believers in your life, pastoral care, counseling.

And they all go, you know, what we think you take the next right step. I think if it's an emotionally oriented decision and it's purely emotional, I think time and truth walk hand in hand. And so I would say go slowly because it is a life. This isn't, you know, adopt and a pet from the Humane Society. And it's if you have a child who's been abandoned or they've lost their parent like Missy did to death, there can be some emotional ramifications there that you need to prayerfully go through that wisely. on the other end of the continuum, if somebody's at 51% of going, I really think God has called me this.

I'm not sure. I'm like, do it, do it, do it. Because I think in the process, God purifies your motives. And so I recently had a friend who called me and she was fussing because she goes, so-and-so, saw your story, and now she's praying about adoption.

And I just think she's doing it because it's trendy. And I just started laughing. And I said, you know what? God will purify her heart in the process. If he's called her to that, he'll keep opening the doors. So do you think you have to be prayerful about it and recognize, you know, I'm not doing this because this is something Brad and Angelina did.

God has called me to this. You seek counsel. And then if he calls you to it, I mean, I was in way, way over my head. It was so far above my capacity and my pay grade. And God has filled in every single gap. So if he's called you to it, he'll make a way. I would just say in that process of praying about it, make sure you have counsel around you. So good. So if someone is at the point, they're like, okay, yeah, we're ready to take those steps.

What advice do you have, just in general for adoption? Yeah, I'd say every single parameter that you have that you think it's going to look like, just maybe have somebody shoot you with a fire hose to get rid of those. Really? Okay, okay. Because it's not going to look the way you thought it was going to look. I like an adoption to hiking up a mountain. In the rain and rollerblades. It is a slippery, messy process.

It's a wonderful process. And it's a really hard, heartbreaking. The time will be longer than they tell you. It will probably be more expensive than you planned. It's messy. It's just like life. And then your heart's involved. So you're like, goodness gracious, not only is this messy,

I feel like my heart has been ripped out of my chest because I love this child and I can't make everything right for them right now. I can't get the medicine where they are. I can't make sure they have a blanket if they're cold. It is a heart-wrenching process, but we're called to it as Christ followers. We're called to take care of the widows and orphans. So if he's called you to it, it's so worth the mess. Just don't think it's going to be neat and tidy.

You can wrap an a cross stick around it. Which is so good because I feel like sometimes you can get this picture. You see someone like, look, it's adoption and it looks so great. But there are the hard times. Right. And even you just saying that, like, I didn't even thought of that. I'm like, yeah, when you have that child in another country, you have no control over what's happening in that moment. And it's, it is. That has to be her rich. When I left Missy, she was in a village being raised by a great aunt, which is fabulous because she had a maternal bond with a great aunt because of legal reasons and what was going on with a hey, gratification. I had to move her to an orphan. She was only supposed to be there for two weeks. She ended up being there for seven months. And it was, I don't have words to wrap around how hard it was. but she was old enough to recognize my mama Blanc is going to leave me here. And she didn't have the understanding that I was doing everything I could to come back. But walking away from my child as she is screaming, me regrets and me regrets.

I'm sorry, Mama, I'm sorry, Mama, I'm sorry, Mama, realizing as this beautiful, precious, you know, three and a half year old little girl who thinks she's done something wrong. And that's why I'm leaving her as a woman whose struggle with shame myself to go, Lord, I don't even know how to do this. I don't know how to do this. And then you go, that's where you've got to trust his grace is sufficient. And he has loved my kids so well. We may have issues later on.

Thus far, you know, we did a lot of counseling when I first brought her home and fine. The counselor said, Missy is fine. You need to continue. I'm like, no, Missy's fine. So the orphanage can break. That's right. You need a little more help. The kids find she doesn't have any abandonment issues.

So, you know, I think you just know going into it. God is big enough for this. Oh, good. I'm not. So I'm going to continually stay desperate to Jesus. And because he's a redeemer and a life giver, there's going to be redemption in this story. Yeah, absolutely.

And there's hope. There's always hope. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. There's always hope. So you touched on this a little bit at the beginning, but I do want to circle back. So for women out there who are single and they're starting to feel this pool, like you're talking about, like, how was that in general? Just adopting it. Like, how were people in your life? Were you encouraged? Like, what did that look like? I said it was, I mean, Rachel, I can say it was, it can be real polarizing. But it's hard. And then there is the logistical hardness of there's nobody else at home with Missy and I. So sometimes I'm like, golly, jeepers. What I would.

give for a dad to come in and at least, you know, help me in this, but also to love her so well. Where I'm a mom, I'm not a dad. That's where I go, he's a father to the fatherless and husband to the husbandless. But I've had to be really intentional about making sure there's men in my life, a lot of my friends' husbands, and just go, she needs a lot of godly uncles to come alongside. But Rachel, I find this with a ton of my friends who are married. who have husbands who are emotionally absent or who goes through divorce. You have to find a community, a community of faith, who goes, we've got your back.

Yes. But I will say if it's a single woman who's lonely, don't adopt a child because you're lonely. That's, boy, you've got to be real careful about the motives of your heart because a child is going to make you less lonely. Jesus makes you less lonely. You adopt a child because God has called you to that and you're called to love that image bear in a way that they ultimately run toward Jesus and leave you because that's normal.

Yes, right. And so I don't want Missy in my house at 30. I want her married with kids and, you know, doing all the things that God has called her to do. So I'd say, just again, you check the motives of your heart. And my motives weren't perfect by any means. God did, I feel like, kind of scrape me over hot calls to clean off the most. impure stuff, and it's been glorious. It has not been easy.

So good. The motive part is so, so wise, because I'm like, you can plug that into anything, right? Absolutely. Don't get married because you're willing. Absolutely. Don't spend money because you're lonely. I mean, all of it, it goes back to that place. Or cars. Carms, which is one of my favorite go-toes.

I love it all. That's so wise, Lisa. So, so-so-wise. Okay, so we've talked a little bit about the hardship of it. Okay, what has been unexpected in such a great way? through Missy. You know, really, the topography of my heart has changed being her mom. I'm not saying she's perfect.

She's pretty close to it. She wears me slap out, real strong spirit, tenderhearted. But it's just glorious. You know, when you see this kid that God had set his favor on and she was going to die, and now she is just vibrant and full of joy, you go, the gospel's true, the gospel's true, the gospel's true, the gospel's true. So every day is fun. I get tired, you know, I'm older than I used to be. There's just, there's just life stuff, but most of it is glorious. I mean, we really have fun. So good. Well, you are just such a shining bright light.

Like, whatever room you walk into, ever since I've known you, I'm just like, you are just an attractive person. And you're raising, obviously, one of the sweetest, sweetest, sweetest, girls in the whole world. I totally believe in arranged marriage. I know. That's right. I know. Listen, I'd love for her to be a cruise, baby. They could, they could definitely. But train him up in the way they should go, Rachel. That's right. I think the pairing could really happen, really happen. Lisa, thanks for coming on. Thank you for having. Sharing your heart in this. It's such a huge topic. And I know we can only

describe some service on the show. I'm so glad you're addressing it. So glad, because it needs to be under this canopy. So I'm so glad you all are doing that. Well, thank you. Thanks for coming on. Always, always good to see. you. Love it. Thank you. Wasn't Lisa great? Seriously, her story is incredible and I love her so much. She's like one of those people I could be around all day. Now, if you want to adopt or you know someone who wants to adopt, I've said it before and I'll say it again. It can be really expensive. But the cool thing is you can do it debt-free. So I'm really excited about our next guest, Julie Gum.

She adopted two kids internationally and did it debt-free. She wrote a whole book about it and has some really practical tips for you. Julie, thanks so much for being here. It is such an honor. Thank you. Yes. Well, you have such an incredible story. I love everything that I've heard so far. For those people watching that don't know exactly your story, tell us a little bit about your family dynamic today. Okay. And what made you guys want to adopt? Okay. Well, my husband and I are high school sweetheart. So we've been married almost 26 years. And we have four children. So I used to say we have four teenagers, but one of them turned 20 this year. So I can't say that So four kids ages 20, 19, 18, and 16. And so two of them are biological children and two of them

are adopted siblings from Ethiopia that we adopted 10 years ago in 2008. So two boys, two girls, two adopted, two biological. Okay, so in 2008, what were the ages of all the kids? So Natalie was five. Beza was seven, just shy of her eighth birthday when we brought them home. Luke was nine. And then Noah, our oldest. biological child was nine. So before you guys went on your adoption journey, you got out of debt first, right? As a family. We did, yeah. My husband will tell you, he started listening to your dad's radio show first for several years and would come home and do the whole Dave Ramsey says thing to me. And so, but really in 2000, we went to a live event together at a church when we were living in

Arizona. And that was what really got us on the same page together. We got excited about getting out of debt. We kind of went gangbusters at it. We paid off our credit cards, our student loans. sold a car, got out of all of that debt in a relatively short period, and then actually kind of worked our way towards paying off our house rather quickly. There was kind of some unique circumstances. And so we were paying off our house right around the time that we decided to adopt. And I just kind of say that adoption journey, when you stop holding onto your money so tight and you stop letting it control you, you kind of look up. And one of the things that we were excited about with getting out of debt was really being able to get.

generously. And so during that time, God kind of just opened our eyes to the world around us. And there was different little things he used throughout that time for foster care and adoption. And one day we went out to lunch and I kind of just blurted out at my husband. So what do you think about adopting? And I thought he'd think I was nuts, right? And like, where did that come from? But he kind of had the same little things happening to him along the way. And so we actually, we went on a cruise to celebrate paying off our house and we took all of the adoption and brochures and paperwork and all this information with us. And I remember sitting in that cabin in the cruise looking through all those things

and just starting to think about what that would look like for our family. Because we really felt like, you know, we had our two kids. We at one point thought we were done. You know, family's done. Two is good. And God just kind of like said, maybe not. Maybe there's still, you know, part of your family is still missing. And so, yeah, so those two journeys are kind of really interestingly intertwined for sure.

Together, yes. And then you guys did it. I mean, in an incredible way, because you did it debt-free. To the point that you wrote a book, you can adopt without debts, yes, which is so good and so helpful. So, like, this whole episode, we're talking about adoption, a whole bit about foster care. Because it's on the heart of a lot of people. And I think even in the last probably, and correct me if I'm wrong, but, you know, even 20 years, just the exposure of social media and how we're just so much more connected as a world. You just see the need, and I think people's hearts have just grown even more.

And so the biggest problem, though, I hear with people is it's just. just so expensive. It's just so expensive. And that's why I wrote the book, because literally I would talk to people and they go, oh, that's so neat, but I could never do that because I could never afford it. I've thought about it, but I could never afford it. And so I had a friend that was urging me to write our adoption story. And I'm like, well, there's nothing really special about our adoption story, you know, per se. And she's like, yes, there is. And so that was really it. People coming with that question and for me to say, okay, if this is something you really want to do, then there's a way for you to do it without going into debt and without, you know,

taking out huge loans or emptying your whole savings account or any of those sort of things. Okay. So let's talk about that. So what are kind of the practical things that you guys did, things like people can apply to their life today if they want to start this journey, but do it without going into debt. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I mean, the first thing I would say, too, is looking at the different kinds of adoption. You know, some people, maybe you have infertility issues, and so you really want a newborn baby, and that's important to you. Other people are really drawn to international adoption, and we were for sure. And then other people foster care. So the number one easiest way to adopt without debt is to adopt from foster care

because it literally will cost you nothing. I mean, I've talked to some people that are like, oh, we paid like $300 or a couple hundred here or there. But adopting from foster care, virtually everything is paid. In a lot of states, the kids still get like state health care insurance until they're 18. Some states give them college benefits. free tuition. And so that's definitely an option that a lot of people have pursued. And there's, I don't know, it's in the six figures of number of kids in the U.S. right now that can be adopted through foster care. Through foster care. Yes. So there's websites, just Google it. Yeah. It's super easy to find the information. And then private domestic adoption, again, that can happen

in several different ways, attorneys, adoption agencies. But that can range anywhere from $10,000 to $40,000, depending on where you go. And international adoption, again, you're probably looking at $20,000, $20,000, some in excess of that. A lot of that is travel costs. Sometimes some countries you have to go two different times. And really international adoption is getting a lot more difficult these days. There's a lot of countries that have shut down.

And so there's some nuances to that too. Some of the barrenors coming out. There are. And some of it's good. They want to make sure that the adoptions are happening ethically and that sort of stuff. so we definitely want that. So the price itself changes, obviously, with which type you go through. Right.

So how did you guys do it debt-free? And how do people do it debt-free? Like, what's in the book, Julie? Give us the secrets. Well, I actually wish I had written the book before I adopted because I learned a lot through the process of writing the book that I thought, wow, I wish I had known that. We did do some fundraising, which we can talk about. But I at the time was doing a lot of freelance work, web design, that sort of stuff,

just when people came to me. We probably paid for about $10,000 to $12,000 of our adoption fees with just freelance jobs. Just extra work. They're coming in, extra work, yeah. My husband was selling stuff on eBay. We did have a big garage sale with some friends. I'm trying to think, and just being tight with our money, kind of going back to those things that you did when you were working on the debt snowball and, like, don't eat out as much. And don't impulse buy the cute shirt at Target.

I just put it back every time. A sad day when that happens. It's good discipline. So some of those types of things. And so that's how we did it. But there are lots of different stories and lots of different ways that different people do it. Yes. And I've had friends that have gone on this journey and they've done a lot of fundraising.

So talk about that a little bit. Like what are ways people creative ideas or things that people don't think about when it's just comes to classic fundraising? Yeah. There's so much fun stuff that you can do actually. And I think a lot of people, when they hear fundraising, they're like, oh, I don't want to ask for handouts. And that's fine. We have a family that did a karaoke night. It was like, you know, you pay $5 and you can make somebody stand up and sing some really embarrassing song. When they get called, they pay money. They can make somebody else come sing. You could pay a cover fee when you walked in of like $30 and then nobody could sign you up to sing. And they made like... Oh, funny. That's probably what I do. And they made like $60 just to verify that I don't have to get up and sing. I went to. And they made like $1,300 that night, you know? And so it was just a really fun time.

That's so great. Because I do get, because I have friends in my mind right now thinking about them, is they're always like, oh, I have just feel weird asking for money. You know, some people do go fund me pages or all of that, but this set of friends. And so just thinking of creative ways. And I'm like, oh, gosh, that is so, it's so out of the box. And if you are the person taking the money and you feel uncomfortable just asking for it, yeah, you're getting involved doing other things that is still receiving that profit that you're able to use towards the adoptions.

And even going back to just like the simplicity of what you said at the very beginning of, like, working extra and watching the budget and getting expenses. It's like you're saving up for something. Because adoption and kids in general, I mean, whenever you just talk about family, emotions rise high, right? I mean, like, it's a very emotional thing. But to say, okay, we're going to slow down the pace a little bit, and we're going to look to see how can we do this wisely and do this without debt

and the fact that it is possible. It is possible. And you did two adoption processes through international. One process, yeah, same time. But two children, yeah. It wasn't international, which is nice. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Yes. Okay, so what are things that you wish you had known in this process before entering it that? I wish I had known about the resources out there for help, too. There's different grant organizations that will either do direct grants, show hope is one. There are some that will do matching funds for you. And so that's great. Two, like, second income. You know, I did the web design freelance thing, but there are a lot of organizations out there who have adoption benefits. So,

if you are going to go out and try and find a second job, like try and find one at a place that's going to give you some money at the same time. Right. Partner with why you're getting the extra job. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. That's amazing. Julie, I feel like you just give such hope to this subject to the point that like, it's possible. It is possible. And there's so many resources out there. There's so many ways to go about it. And you can. So if your heart for adoption is there, there's a way to do it death free. Don't let the money stop you. And you're a living proof of it. So Julie, thank you. So so much. Seriously, in your book, you can adopt without debt.

If you're a family that wants to adopt, seriously, buy it off Amazon. Go ahead, purchase it. So many great ideas in here. And you're just awesome. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. This was such an inspiring episode. And again, adoption in fostering such a personal choice. So if it's not you personally adopting or fostering, find someone who is and just get involved and support someone in your life. because, again, this is such a huge topic. Thanks again to Lisa and Julie for coming on. I just love them.

And if you're thinking about adopting yourself, I've made something special for this episode. So click the link in the show notes to get my debt-free adoption tracker. This will help you stay motivated as you use some of those creative ideas that Julie gave us and save up for your adoption. And anything else we talked about

in the show will be in the show notes as well. Now, if you've not subscribed to this podcast, make sure you do that. And if the spirit leads, you can leave a review. And as always, make sure you take control of your money and create a life you love. So if you guys enjoyed this podcast, we have more from the Ramsey Network, like The King Coleman Show. According to a recent Gallup poll, nearly 70% of Americans are disengaged at work. If you dread going into work every Monday morning and you're just trying to make it to the weekend,

the Ken Coleman show is for you. Everyone has a sweet spot. Your sweet spot is at the intersection of your greatest talent and greatest passion. We will help you discover what it is you were born to do, and then we'll help you create a plan to make your dream job a reality. You matter, and you have what it takes. Join the conversation on the Ken Coleman Show. To hear full episodes, just search Ken Coleman wherever you listen to podcasts, or go to Ken Coleman Show.com.