The Rachel Cruze Show - How to Overcome Fear in Your Money and Your Marriage

Episode Date: May 25, 2020

You guys! It’s the first-ever live episode of The Rachel Cruze Show!   In this very special episode, you’ll learn:   How to overcome fear in your relationships with help from my guest, Patsy Clairmont Why I’m terrified of dolphins (yes, really) How one couple became debt-free while planning their wedding and even losing a job   Sponsors pay the producer of this show, The Lampo Group, LLC, advertising fees for mentioning their services or products during programming. Advertising fees are not based upon or otherwise tied to any product sale or business transacted between any consumer or sponsor. The following sponsors have paid for the programming you are viewing:  — Zander Insurance   Zander Insurance Stay connected with Patsy at https://patsyclairmont.com/ Financial Peace University Just Between Friends Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It kind of felt lost, really unsure of what was going to happen in the future. It was daunting to get newly married and be like, we have $25,000 to pay off. A couple who recently just became debt-free. You have to be willing to change your behavior a little bit and know that it's going to work. Patsy at Claremont, she's been married 57 years and has so much wisdom when it comes to marriage. I had to learn to name what I was feeling and then to own it. Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of the Rachel Cruz Show podcast. So glad that you're here.

And this episode, oh, it's different and so fun because when we taped this episode of the Rachel Cruise show, we actually did it with a live audience. Yeah, there were like 400 people. We taped the whole show in front of a live audience, and it was just incredible. It was seriously so, so much fun. And we got to do it before the pandemic hit. So we actually had a live audience. It was wonderful.

and I knew this was such great content, and I wanted my podcast listeners to hear all of it. So, hope you enjoy. Welcome to a special edition of The Rachel Cruise Show. Today is the very first time we've ever done this, but we actually have a live studio audience here with us, and I'm just so pumped. I kind of feel like Oprah.

I'm not gonna lie. I know I'm not Oprah. No one's getting a car, but I'm gonna channel her, yes. Well, in today's episode, we are going to talk about overcoming fear and marriage. fear keeps us from peace and really living out the life that you love. So I want you to be able to overcome that. I'm bringing on one of my favorite authors and speakers, Patsy Claremont. She is wonderful and you are going to love her because she brings so much wisdom to this topic.

We're also going to talk to a couple who just became debt-free and they have such a powerful story. And then Patsy and I will be doing a live Q&A together to answer our live audience questions. Now, when I I think about fear, personally, I really don't consider myself a very fearful person. When I think about my fears, they might be a little dramatic. My family and I, we went to Jamaica a few months ago, and we did this, like, dolphin excursion thing, where you go swim with wild dolphins. And in the middle of this excursion, I'm swimming out in the middle of this cove, and I remember thinking to myself, oh, wow, I'm about to have this wild animal come up behind me, and I'm supposed to grab it's thin. It's going to take me on this joy ride.

And then I'm thinking, no, it as easily could grab my foot and, like, drag me to the bottom of the ocean, and I could die. Mm-hmm. 100%. So I have a fear of dolphins, weirdly enough. I also have a fear of storms. I don't like thunderstorms, the whole thing about it. Like, you know, the little ticker that comes across the TV with that little, like, sounds. Do, do, do, do, do...

Oh, gives me anxiety. I don't like it. Tornadoes. Nope, don't do those. I also have a fear. Actually, my greatest fear is being convicted of a crime that I didn't come. commit. You can imagine being in jail and you're like, I didn't do it. I promise I didn't do it. Oh, no, I can't. I can't even think about it. So I know some of those fears percentage-wise probably

are not going to happen, but it's important to know that when fear does flare up, it actually can be a good thing. It could even be considered a gift. Fear is a God-given feeling. Chip Dodd says that it's not a sin. It can be scary, but fear is just the recognition that we need help. So you can have fear in your career, in your relationships, marriage, and money. And it's important within your marriage for you to know what you and your spouse both fear. So since we focus on money in this show, here are a couple of financial fears that people have. If something unexpected comes up, we won't survive financially. Time is running out, and I won't get to live like I'd hoped. I won't be able to get ahead because of how the world works. There's also the fear that because of my past financial

mistakes, I'm not going to be able to have a better future. And then also the fear that I will end up just like my parents. So those are some examples of fears that people have when it comes to money. Now, I've learned, again, that fear can be a good thing because it motivates us to put things in place in our life to help us. But when fear grows beyond protecting us, paralyzing us, that's when it turns into anxiety, and that's not what we want. Scripture is very clear not to be anxious about anything. And I take that as truth. So, Fear can actually be a good thing, but we have to deal with it in a healthy way. And just remember, one way to overcome fear, it is not just to be tougher, but it's to be vulnerable

and to be known. And part of that is being known by your spouse. So coming up next is Patsy at Claremont. I cannot wait for you guys to hear from her. She's been married 57 years and has so much wisdom when it comes to marriage. Hey, moms, Rachel Cruz here. Are you looking for a fun side hustle to help you pay down debt and and build your emergency fund.

Just Between Friends is a consignment marketplace that will help you find cash in your kids' closet. I sell my kids outgrown clothes, toys, and gear using consignment, and Just Between Friends makes it super simple. The average seller with JBF brings in $300 to $400 per sale. So go to JVF Sale.com to get started and find cash in your closet today. That's jvfsail.com. Kathy, thanks for being here.

Well, thank you. I think I don't fit. You're like the cutest little petite thing ever. Well, thanks for being here for the show. Thank you. And I have had the pleasure of knowing you and knowing your story, but not everyone watching may know who you are. So give us a little bit of your story. Well, it's not pleasant, but it gets better as it goes on.

So have hope. I was a high school dropout and a teenage runaway. I was married by the time I was 17. I had my first baby at 20, and then I became an agoraphobic, which sounds like the Ringling Brothers, but actually what it means is that you are housebound by fear. Now, at this time, I have a husband and a young baby, and I'm becoming non-functional.

And soon, after indulging my fear, because I didn't know what to do with it, I gave into it. And when you do that, it multiplies. When it finally hit me that if something didn't change, I wasn't going to make it. There would be nothing else to do with me but locked me away. I had already withdrawn from society into my home, withdrawn in my home into my bed. And I wanted my poor dear husband to fix me. I just fix me. I want to be like you, but I was not meant to be like him. I was meant to be like Jesus. And he offers freedom. I said, dear Lord, I'm not going to make it if you don't do something. So here's the deal. You tell me what to do and whatever it is, I'll obey you. And in that moment, I heard inside of

me a voice. It wasn't on the outside. I wouldn't know. It's all over now. Lock me out. It was on the inside. And the voice said, make your bed. And I thought, make my bed. I'm telling you, I want to get well so I can do great things for you. And you're saying, make my bed, that didn't make any sense to me. I would learn later there's a principle in God's Word that says, when you're faithful in the little things I ask you, I'll give you more. And when you're faithful and more, I'm going to give you much. And I stepped out of the bed that day because, see, that's what I didn't understand.

What do you mean? Make the bed? I'm in it. You know, and it's real hard to make it when you're in it. Well, hello. So I got up and I made the bed. But then I didn't know what to do with my energy and my fear. And God would bring one book after another, one person after another, to invest in my life.

And I was hungry to get well and to be sane and to be able to love on my life. family and healthy ways. So good, Pat, Sammy. It's such a beautiful story of redemption, really out of this fear topic that we're talking about on the show today. And so you said you were married, newly married during all of this time. But now, fast forward, it's been 57 years of marriage. It's called endurance. Endurance. That's right. Sweat equity. Okay, that's it. That's I'm going to ask you. What's the secret, right? How do you last 57 years? How do you have a marriage to get to that point? Well, you hold your breath a lot. So you don't say the first thing that's on your mind. It's not always

in your best interest or anyone else's. There's something about just taking a deep breath and saying, do I really want to say this? And is it kind? Is it loving? Is it helpful? Will it bring about goodwill between us? I'm not saying, we did that all the time. I'm saying that's a good idea. I bet you did, Patsy. I bet you did. Okay, so looking back in your marriage, what are a couple of things? That was one great example. What's something else that you're so happy that you guys did over the years? Then we hung in there with each other because it would have been easier to quit a number of times because you have seasons in your marriage, just like you have seasons at work and seasons at everyday life. And I found that it was helpful in those.

distant times when one of us could say to the other, I'm still here. We're going to make it through this. And oftentimes the difficult seasons were in the midst of a big problem. You know, you bump up against a problem and it kind of seeps through your relationship and you have to kind of learn what to do with all of that. And I did a lot of blaming to my husband about what I felt instead of taking responsibility for my own feelings. So I had to learn to name what I was feeling and then to own it and do something with it besides blame him. And that improved a lot of things in our marriage. Yeah, that's so good. Well, you kind of answer my next question, but you're sitting here,

so I want to keep asking it because I want more advice. Okay, so what were things that you look back and you say, okay, man, if we just did that differently, I would do that. If I could go back in time and do X, Y, or Z differently, I probably would. Yes, I use my moods to control. I would do that differently. I wouldn't do that. That's cruel.

I would, instead of saying words, I'd slam a cupboard. or, boy, I'd really punish him by shutting down and not saying any words. Well, that was relief. It was his vacation. We would begin the long journey of learning how to grow up into adulthood when we were already in our adult years. Yeah, absolutely. Because as every marriage knows, including yours, right, you face these problems. the times you do feel disconnected. So what did you and your husband do to stay connected during those hard times? Well, sometimes we did it wrong and sometimes we did it right. This was all new language to us. Right, right. And so it would take us time to learn. Whenever you get a new skill,

it has to be integrated into the relationship. And that doesn't come usually overnight. No. And the one thing that we found, that's a helpful is to just reassure each other that you love them. I don't particularly like you right now, but I want to assure you that I love you. So. Yeah, that's so good. I think for Winston and I in this season, we've just learned, we've married 10 years in December, and for some reason it's like these seasons kind of flare up. And for us, we've kind of gone back to this like vulnerability and being known on a deep, deep level just in this last season. Like, it's kind of and this refreshing thing of us, like, going back to this idea of, okay, if we just are completely

100% known by each other, the depth that your marriage goes in that. And so we've really been acting in that, really the last probably 12 months and being really purposeful on it. So I think being vulnerable is huge. You can be really hard for some people, but I think it is a big part of marriage. So for you guys, how would you, how would you advise someone to create kind of this vulnerable space for spouses to be known and be vulnerable? When Les and I were trying, we both thought, well, this is weird. Well, this is awkward. Well, you have to practice through your awkwardness. And that feels uneasy for us. We like a sense of control. And when he would tell me how he was feeling, many times I was surprised. I would think, I didn't know you felt that way. Well, let me reassure you. So, and he would reassure me. Okay, so someone that's watching the show who's possibly single, right? They don't have a spouse to go through fear with. They don't know, you know, they don't have that go-to person. How important is it for someone out there who's single to have that person in their life to walk through fear with? Yes, I couldn't be everything to less. And he couldn't be everything to me. You can be lonely in a marriage. It's not just the single girls that have loneliness. You can be married and feel all. by yourself and that there are times that the Lord wants to be the one you turn to because he's the only

one that's going to heal the deep depth of your hurt and I often will say Lord I need a people to help walk with me and often he will send me counsel through someone and more often than not the council will come through the lips of my husband, and it may not be in the serving dish I was hoping for. That's a nice way. Well, Batsy, you are wonderful. I love being around you. You're one of those people that you're around, and I'm like, oh, I'm going to be you when

I'm older. I mean, seriously, you are just absolutely incredible. So thank you so much for coming on the show today. Well, coming up next is a couple who recently just became debt-free, and their story, is so motivating, so they're coming up next. I guess I kind of felt lost, really unsure of what was going to happen in the future. I definitely felt overwhelmed by my student loan debt. I felt bad that I was bringing this debt into our marriage.

I proposed to Joanna, and 30 days later, I lose my job. And I was trying to figure out, number one, how am I going to tell my fiancé that I lost my job? When you don't have money to pay your rent and you don't want to ask your friends, fiance for the money, but she knows you're too proud to do it, and she has to fork over $1,500 to do it. Man, that just crushes you. And that's what it did for me. It just crushed me. And I just told myself, never again, I'm not going to let that, I'm not going to let this feeling happen to me ever again. So a few months into our marriage in the fall, we took Financial Peace University, and I think taking it, you have a fear of because you know uncomfort is coming.

You know your behavior is going to have to change. And so, and then also a fear of, like, agreeing about how to go about it in the same way. It's not common in our culture that you have to persevere and you have to wait it out the long haul. You know, some people have even more debt than we did. But it's like, even with ours, it was daunting to get newly married and be like, we have $25,000 to pay off. How, you know, how fast can we get this done? And actually, even in November, we didn't think that we were going to do it, that we were going to make it.

And then the money just came in, and we're like, oh, my gosh, thank you God. When we pressed that button, I knew that my wife was going to cry. But, man, I broke down. It was just like this weight was lifted off of our shoulders. It's like, you worked so hard for something, and it came to reality because of no one else but you. It feels like so freeing. Like, I love that it's called Financial Peace University because it brings financial peace to you that nothing else can.

And we both talked about how after we paid off the $25,000, it was like this switch just like flipped on in our heads. Now we're thinking, if we can do this, if we can achieve this, what else could we possibly do? You have to, you know, like break through that first step and just take that first step and be willing to change your behavior a little bit and know that it's gonna work, like the system works.

Well, Joanna and John Arnda, thank you guys much for being here. And we had fun because you guys were in the office just yesterday to do your debt-free scream. And I did it with you guys. Yeah. It was groundbreaking. Was that fun? Yeah. Good. That's so great. Well, I'm glad you guys came on the Rachel Cruz show to share your story because I love it. You guys are like the textbook way to do this money stuff. You did it so well. And so take me back to when you guys were newly engaged and you were in debt. Yeah. So, So I proposed to my wife, and 30 days later, after proposing, I lost my job. And I'm thinking to myself, you know, I just asked her father, you know, can I, can I please take your daughter's hand in marriage?

And 30 days later, I have no way of supporting her. For so long, he had been talking about FPU, Dave Ramsey, right? And like, to my father-in-law, Dave Ramsey is like, the thing. 13th disciple, right? And I never really thought about it. But as soon as the rubber hit the road, I knew that I had to make a change. I knew that I at least had to look into this FPU thing, look into this whole Dave Ramsey person. And at that point, that's kind of where it kind of sparked for me. Okay. Yeah. And that's a scary place to be, right? Of losing your job and all that. because how you grew up, both of you, you know, in separate households, how money was dealt with,

I'm sure it was probably different. That's how most couples are. So what was life around money growing up in your household? For me, my parents struggled until they started doing Dave Ramsey. And in 2004, they became completely debt-free and still are to this day, obviously. And my dad teaches the David Ramsey classes and everything. So they're seeing their legacy and how they're able to live so freely, I think has really inspired us to want the same thing. Absolutely. So you grew up in a household where eventually it was like, okay, yeah, money's talked about. This is what we're doing. Scott in control. Yes. All of that. So great. How about you? Yeah. So mine was a little bit different. So I come from a divorce situation, which I'm sure a ton of people here can kind of relate to

that. So each household was different. My mom is an immigrant woman, so she was the only person bringing income into our household. So she would work all day, two, three jobs. And on the flip side, my father's house, him and my stepmom, they have always had debt, right, ever since I can remember. So for me, I kind of knew that I just, even though I appreciated both households, I wanted something different for me and my wife and our future children. Yeah, absolutely. Would you say that was a motivator for you guys even as you're getting out of, you know, like getting out of debt process?

Absolutely. So you guys paid off $25,000 in 18 months. That's so great. So what are some tips that you guys have as you're getting out of debt? Because we always talk about, you know, earning extra money, doing whatever you can to throw as much money as possible at your debt to become debt free as quickly as possible. What are some things that you guys did to get out of debt quickly?

Well, we sold the second car that we had and went down to one car, so that saves us on gas and insurance, and he's able to take public transit to work, and then I used the car. And we just started, I worked two part-time jobs, and so one of those paychecks was going all to the debt, as well as he's in sales, so his commission checks were also going towards the debt, and we stopped eating out and just really watched where every dollar was going, and really ask ourselves, do we want it or do we need this? Can this wait until we're debt-free? Yeah, I can.

You know? Delayed gratification. Words that a lot of people don't know in today's culture, right? I mean, so it's so impressive because I love that you guys started out. You guys were talking about marriage and fear and money and all of this. Like, you guys hit the ground running, right? The month you said, okay, we said, I do. This journey began.

So for all you really knew in marriage was sacrificing to get out of debt when it comes to money. So what did it feel like when you finally made the less payments and you were free? You owed no money. It just felt like if we did this, what else could we possibly do? Like it flipped something in us, like a switch just turned on. Like we accomplished something that we thought at one point was impossible until we actually did it. So for us, it's just been a huge motivator. It's really brought us together more as a couple also.

So there's someone probably watching at home and they're thinking, okay, that's great. for that couple. I mean, they're both on board. You know, it seemed like, of course they did it. That's awesome. And they're probably, you know, thinking, okay, but in my life, I'm not going to be able to do that. What encouragement would you give to someone who thinks that it is impossible, that they have $25,000 in debt, and it is a mountain to them. And they think, I just, I don't even know where to begin. Mm-hmm. I would say it doesn't matter if you have $5,000, $100,000 in debt. debt is debt and you're able to get out of that. My wife and I were people of faith and I do not believe that our Heavenly Father wants anyone in bondage. That's exactly what debt is. It's in bondage.

So when you think I can't do this, I can't get out of this debt, there's no way that you can stop what God already has planned for your life. All you have to do is take that first step. Life is going to happen. Sometimes it's going to happen really, really hard, but you are always going to be stronger after it, right? Yeah. You guys, you're amazing. You really, really are. I mean, the amount of dedication and work and intentionality it takes,

because we always say you can wander your way into debt. You can't just wonder your way out. I mean, it takes focus and gazelle intensity. And you all did it. And you're free. No payments, nothing. I mean, could you guys imagine being their age, starting off marriage like that?

You're like, I mean, it's absolutely incredible what you're doing, absolutely changing your family tree and you're in the midst of it. And so I'm just so proud of you guys. I'm so excited. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story. You guys are awesome. Well, I'm going to bring Patsy back up on stage and we're going to answer some of our audience questions. One of my favorite packages to ever show up at my door is my tuftan needle mattress. I've got a couple now. And seriously, I love this mattress. You guys know exactly how it is. When you're juggling all the demands of mom, wife, work, friends, etc., good sleep is a must. And I've never slept better. Tufton Needle is the best rated mattress on Amazon with over 100,000 five-star reviews. Try it out.

You can get a mattress starting as low as $3.99. Plus, it chips free. And you get to keep it for 100 nights risk-free. If I'm wrong, just send it back. Go to tn.com to get started. That's tn.com. All right, next we are going to take some questions from our live. studio audience. Patsy, are you ready? I'm ready for live.

All right, and George Camel is here, and he's going to help facilitate the questions. So, first question. My question is, how do you overcome the fear of inadequacy or possibly inequality when it comes to, you know, someone making more than the other? And especially when it comes to sitting down and making those changes in the budget, when you don't feel like you have an equal share, and so maybe you shouldn't be saying as much in that budget committee meeting. Yeah, that's a good question, because we, I feel like we deal with this a lot, and I don't know if this is your case, but even like stay-at-home moms I talk to, they're like, oh, I just feel like I'm not contributing anything, you know. And I would say that is such a lie in your head, even if you

are bringing in a paycheck and it's less, but to think that you're anything less than the person bringing in more money. I mean, that's all monetary, right? I mean, like, what we bring, overarching to the world are giftings and who are created to be, like, like you, I've had to learn to become so comfortable in that and to say, okay, I am made and my value is not placed on a paycheck. And so knowing that deep in myself, I think is kind of the foundational principle that I always go off of. But the number two, I think within the marriage, really looking at this situation as a team effort, that you're a team. And so if one person's making more than the other, seeing that as a blessing where you're like, go, keep on doing that, right?

I mean, make more if you want. That's great because we can pay off debt faster and all of it. But seeing it as a team, because when you're looking more as an individual running on two separate lanes, that's when those lies start to creep in. But when everything hits the checking account and you see, okay, this is what we made together. And as a team, that unity, I think, is where you have to get to. But I think it first starts with what we talked about at the very beginning of understanding, like your value is worth so much more than what you're bringing in money-wise.

What would you say, Patsy? Oh, I can't begin to tell you. how much it would cost if they had to pay for our housekeeping services and our laundry services and our support services and our mothering services and our chef's services and you can't even afford us. I think it's a match deal and you just have to grow into the confidence of your contribution, which I happen to know in my spirit is significant. Amen. Amen. And there was a study with stay-at-home moms. I don't know if you are one, but apparently on average that they could be, they would be worth close to half a million dollars from all, from like a chauffeur, like they broke down

everything that a mom does and the hours and all of it. Just tips. Awesome. Well, thank you so much. Let's hear it for Terry. Thank you, Terry. All right, come on up, sir. And your question. How do you plan for the unexpected, like losing a child with clinical depression or anxiety and then deal with the bills that come in and you don't understand what they are charging you for or if they understand your pain?

I really appreciate this question and the chance to. address it. Here is what I have learned. We marry opposites. So when we go through a great loss, we're going to respond to that loss in opposite ways. And then we're going to be at our most vulnerable points. And here our spouse is behaving so differently than us that we misunderstand very often that they're carrying the same level of pain and grief that we are. So you can really get in opposites, unless you're equipped with an understanding, we're going to walk this road differently. And we're going to need some assistance to come together in the healthiest ways we can when we're in the midst of our greatest pain. That's what I've seen and learned. Yeah, that's so good. And I think

on the financial side, I always tell people not to make any big financial decisions while in grief. And so while grief can last a long time, but that first few months, even that first year, just to take time to heal yourselves and go to counseling and really work at that loss as healthy and as heartbreaking as it is. But getting yourselves whole is so key because you can make some really bad financial decisions in the midst of that. And so letting you, your self-heal, I think, is priority number one. And then number two, when it comes to the bills and not understanding, get a team around you and ask questions.

We always talk about even with investing, never to put your money in something that you don't understand. And the same would be true. I mean, you have to pay these medical bills, but you want to know what you're putting your money towards because the unknown becomes stressful and scary. So ask questions, get people around you to help you through that process. Thank you, Juan. Let's give it up for them.

Momana. My husband and I are on baby step six, and we are expecting our first child. Oh, congratulations. And I'm wondering how to balance the fear that comes with all of the what-ifs. What if we have a medical crisis? What if the child has disabilities that cost us a lot? How do we save an appropriate amount of money and make sure we are protected without sabotaging our other goals? Yeah, absolutely.

I think there is a mental shift that happens when you do have money just saved. You know, there is a peace of mind that comes. Okay, if something unexpected happens, we have the ability to go and fund that, right? And so I don't, I mean, at this point, I would say throughout the entire pregnancy, I would just save, save, even on baby step six, just have a stockpile of money. And then if everything, you know, labor and delivery goes well, baby's healthy, you're healthy. Then you're able to take that and then apply that extra money to your goals and what you want. But I think also on the emotional side,

and Patsy, you probably can speak to this really well. But there is, you have to, you can't have control as a parent. And that's one thing I've learned. Like, you can't control your pregnancy. You can't control your labor and delivery. You can't control the baby's health. You can't control. I mean, you are so out of control.

And for a control freak, it is a scary place to be, yes. And so I think learning to let go. And for me, I'm like, I have to keep my hands like this. I do this with my money. I do this with my relationships, even with my own children. Because even what Juan just said, I mean, that's like my greatest fear truly in life. As we're talking about fear, I was joking earlier in the episode. But, I mean, that would, I mean, I can't even imagine how people lose a child.

I mean, I could, I'm like, postpartum, obviously. I'm like, it really does. I mean, that terrifies me. And so I've had to learn not to function in that fear and to say, okay, everything God has given me as a gift. At the end of the day, he loves us. And his plan for them is so much greater than what I can even imagine. And scripture says to think on those things that are good and true and pure and just and lovely and a good report.

So one thing I find that I can do for myself when the what if only's hit me is to write some prayers of saying what I know is true. And I just begin to find my spirits lift and me step out of the cycle of fear. But it takes time. Once you've done all the things you know you can do to set your situation as sound as possible, then we get to trust. Isn't that fun? Thank you. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you so much. Let's hear it for last but not least. Your name? Cameron. And your question. So, hello, how are you doing? So April 1st, my lovely bride and I, we will be three years into our marriage. And so we've been a

baby step two this entire time. Before we got married, big Dave guy religiously listened to it every day. So when we got married, I'm like, hey, we both got to work two jobs. We got to get out of this this debt, you know. We can be out in about two years. So while we were engaged, she was like, you know, eventually I want to be a stay-at-home mom. I'm like, well, you know, I saw my parents worked two jobs and my mom come home and would cook. And seemingly the house, I thought it was okay. some things got broken in my parents' marriages, so I didn't understand the whole totality of that, but I just assumed

society says both parents work, have kids, you manage. So throughout our marriage, fast forward, job fluctuations, income fluctuations, there's some fear that will never get out of debt now.

Two and a half years has turned into, oh, well, two more years. You know, we have struggled with fertility, you know, at times with both of us different unspoken and unknown illnesses. So we're trying to get out of debt, but there's fear that we just can't see that light at the end of the tunnel. Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, it's so hard because for some stories, you know, it feels like a sprint. And for others, it feels like a marathon. And you guys are kind of in that marathon race that you're feeling of getting out of debt. And I think having a goal, like possibly, you know, being a stay-at-home mom and what that story looks like for you guys, I think is one to say, okay, yes. Like when this happens, this is, this is our goal and this is one of our whys of getting out of debt for kids, possibly infertility, you know, doing IVF. I mean, all of that, you know, going into that, maybe it's adoption, whatever, whatever it looks like for you guys in your story, understanding your wife of getting out of debt starts to become

more motivating. And so looking at the end goal and saying, hey, we're doing all of this and we're sacrificing everything to get there and to know that the sacrifice is short term, just like the couple up here earlier. They said it, and it's true. You know, it's only for short-term purposes. And short-term might be two more years, right? Short-term, whatever that looks like in your life, but it's not going to be forever. And I just think what a beautiful place it could be if, you know, you guys are debt-free and a child comes into your life and it all works, right? And you, and you're, and she's able to stay home and be there. And I think that, yeah, it is such a huge job as a parent. And I think that that's a huge why for you guys to keep you motivated for getting out of debt.

Excuse me, you choked me up. Struggle is good for us. Struggle is where we learn who we are and who we aren't yet so we can become the very thing we'd like to. Struggling together can help deepen relationship or it can help separate how we feel about each other. It's our decision. And Luss and I, when he had his leg removed, we had to go through adjustments.

We had to choose how we were going to think about that. And I would say, yes, this and this is hard, but let's look at this and this. You can go out and make friends. He said, how am I going to do that? I said, well, you can't drive a car because you're having these vision problems, but you can still drive your golf cart in the neighborhood. but go find a friend. That's what, that's your assignment today. Go find a friend. And to my great delight, he got on there, came back, he said, I found one. He's picking me up Thursday. We're going to

lunch. So sometimes having a friend in the midst of it is good too. Because it gives you a different conversation than the one you're going to have between you and her where you still may be on edge about agreeing on everything. Are you both maybe too sad that day to deal with the other one's sadness? It's good to have a friend that you can talk to. So get on your golf cart and you can go find one. That's great. Yeah. Community, huge. Having people surrounding you, praying for you, walking with you, knowing you on a deep level and your hurt and your pain, I think is, it's remarkable. Yeah, absolutely. And God designed for us to be involved with other people. We're not supposed to be one strong island unto ourselves. But it is not weakness to say to another person, I'm struggling.

And I could use a friend. Thank you, Cameron, so much for your question. Patsy, thanks for coming back up here. And I just want to thank you guys so much for watching. We had incredible show today, incredible guests, Patsy Claremont, John Andre and Joanna and their story. So thank you guys so much for watching. Thanks to our live studio audience for being here.

And remember to take control of your money and create a like you love. Hope you guys enjoyed that episode. And again, you probably heard me say, all of you watching, that kind of stuff. It's because that was all taken from the video. So if you wanted to see the actual video of the Rachel Cruise Show live episode,

you can head over to my YouTube, watch it there. But again, all great content all around, whether you're watching or listening. So hope you took some nuggets out that you could use for your life. Now, if you've not subscribed to my podcast, make sure you do that. And if the spirit leads, you can leave a review. And as always, remember to take control of your money and create a life you love. So if you guys enjoyed this podcast, we have more from the Ramsey Network, like the Entree Leadership Podcast.

This is Alex Judd, host of the Entree Leadership Podcast. We're a community of leaders by leaders for leaders committed to bringing you practical ways to grow yourself, your team, and your profits. Join us every week as we talk to entrepreneurs, CEOs, thought leaders, bestselling authors, and more to help you with your life and your business. To hear full episodes, just search Entree Leadership wherever you listen to podcasts or go to Entreeleadership.com slash podcast.