The Rachel Cruze Show - Knowing This About Yourself Will Make You Better With Money

Episode Date: December 7, 2020

In this episode of The Rachel Cruze Show, you’ll learn: Which of the 7 Money Tendencies are impacting the way you spend or save How to teach your kids about money in a healthy way with Ken Coleman The right time to refinance your house Resources: Minno Tuft & Needle Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

They start having resentment as an adult to their parents because I thought we were all good. I thought they were fine. And now as an adult, I'm realizing, wow, no, my parents, they didn't have the money to do that. And now they can't even retire. And I feel like I was lied to. Hey, guys, welcome to another episode of the Rachel Cruz Show podcast. I'm so glad that you're here. Today's episode, we're going to be talking to Ken Coleman.

I sit down and do an interview with him all about his money classroom. And I love this because, again, how you grew up with money shapes so much. of who you are today and how you handle the money that you have. And so we get to dive in to that conversation. Also, I'm going to answer a question from my Facebook community about mortgages and the baby steps. But first, let's dive into a topic that I have been super passionate about. I know we've been talking a lot about money tendencies lately, but listen, winning with money, it's only 20% head knowledge. The rest is behavior, 80% behavior in order to win. And so that's So it's so crucial to figure out your money tendencies.

So it helps you watch out for trouble spots. You can kind of course correct and go through the baby steps faster. It is so important to understand. In order to change your behavior, you have to know why you're doing the things you're doing. So I went on the Dave Ramsey's show to talk to my dad about his money tendencies, and some of them might be a surprise to you. And for 30 years, we've been telling people that 80%, that personal finances 80% behavior, 20% head knowledge. And we've taught you all the head knowledge.

during that time. And occasionally we deal with some of the behavior things and make sure that you're adjusting your behaviors or transforming you. But Rachel decided to get under the hood and say, all right, what does it take to really understand who you are? Because if you do, then you can say, I need to be the best version of that. That's exactly right. So walking through, you know, understanding not just who you are, but it really is. It's your upbringing, how your childhood classroom, if you will, influenced how and why you handle money the way you do today, your money. Your money tendencies, your money fears, your money dreams, even the amount of grace that you give when money mistakes happen, it affects your relationships. I mean, the whole part of who you are

understanding that, and that allows you also to have the empathy for others in your life. If you're married, hopefully this book reveals things, and you're like, oh, that's why my spouse does the things he does or she does. And you really can understand the person, because when you understand you more, you can become a healthier version of that, which helps you create better money habits and win with money faster. Yeah, and I think we started scratching the surface years ago, and we said, okay, some of you are nerds, some of your free spirits, and usually there's one of each in a marriage. So you want to be a healthy version of a nerd, which is the detail, administrative thing,

but not the overbearing control freak. You want to be a healthy version of the free spirit, which is a person who enjoys life, but does it in a mature way where you don't destroy the entire family's finances. And so we started scratching the surface with that years ago, but you've gotten down into scarcity and abundance and safety versus status. and quality versus quantity, which is one I had not really thought of. That's an interesting way.

Let's go through them. Here's your quiz. Because in the book, in the book, the way I wrote it out was that there's a scale, basically. So you kind of put yourself on the scale between the two. So saver versus spender. Where are you on the scale?

Me? Yep. Oh, Spender. Yep. Which I think is probably surprising for some people. Everyone just assumes, and me too, they're like, oh, you love, you teach about money. So you love to save.

And I'm like, I don't love. to save. Winston is a saver and Sharon's a saver. Naturally. Now, I'm a good saver because I've learned that it is the shortest method to spend more and to be more generous. Yep. I can't give money away if I'm broke.

And I'm like you too. I lean way more on the spender. And again, extremes on all these scales can be unhealthy. So again, the moderation is key, but you lean one way or the other. Okay, scarcity versus abundance. Abundance. Me too. Are we going to be the same person?

Safety versus status. And what this is is meaning the why do you want to win with money? For some people, it's completely out of safety. I don't want to worry about it. It's there. I'm okay. Some people want it in order to live a fun life to go on vacation. So status isn't bad.

I feel like some people read this. Status is not bad. There's an unhealthy version of it. But it's so that I can enjoy life, go on vacation, maybe drive a fun car. Like I want to use it for things in my life versus it just being there that I'm okay. So that would often be the safety would be the saver. and the status would be the spender, wouldn't it? Sometimes always.

I mean, I think these can be your time. Are you more safety with money? Oh, definitely status, definitely. Me too. Okay, quality versus quantity. Quality. Okay, I'm quantity. I would rather have like 20 pairs of earrings.

So you're like, you get like, $10. You get like sucked into the Costco 22 pounds of peanut butter thing. Yes, I love, yes. I like having more stuff versus like one nice pair of shoes. I'd rather have 10 that are like, yeah, that I have to replace. But you like quality. You'll research and buy the best of the best, even if it's just one thing, you just have the one.

I've got a pair of cowboy boots that I have had since college. But they are top line. I mean, I've resold them three times. Yeah. But not only are they broken in and they're perfect, but obviously they had the ability to last 30-some-odd years. That's pretty good. So they were quality boots. And, you know, so that's fine.

And I'd rather wear them than new ones because I don't. There you go. I want to break them in. When you spend money, is it more on experiences or things? I do both. I don't know. I'm probably in the middle on that one. Okay.

You're an experienced girl. Oh, yeah, all the way. No question. Give me a nice dinner out. Give me a vacation. Go to the zoo with the kids. Like, I'll go, I want to go do stuff. Yeah.

Versus having like a thing. Yeah. Your mom is on things. Yeah. No, she does both though because she's like, I need a vacation. Oh, both of you, whatever. You all do on vacation. Y'all can do both.

Yeah. All right. We all can't do both. All right. No, but this was a good one for, I'll say for me and Winston, because for the first probably two or three years of our marriage, even when we did our budget and all of this, I just valued our out-to-eat category.

I was like, I love going out to eat. And he always, if we went, especially at the beginning of marriage, it's like, I'll just get a water. And I'm like, get a drink. Have a drink. Like, it's fine. And he's like, no, no, no. It's so expensive.

Like, no, it's fine. It's fine. And I'm like, oh my goodness. But I enjoy that whole experience where he, again, would buy something. And I'm like, why did you buy that? Like, it made no sense. Yeah. But finally, when we had the communication around it, and I pinpointed it, I was like, oh,

that your value around where you spend your money on, that's what it is. Yeah. Okay. Planned giving versus spontaneous giving. Well, this is a brain versus a natural. My natural response. Brain versus heart, yeah. My natural response is spontaneous.

Yep. And yet the vast majority of our giving is very planned. We even plan our spontaneity. I mean, you know, it's like, so we have categories. and the Ramsey family foundation that's just money, it's just sitting there. So if something comes up, we can, you know,

a single mom needs some help with something that, you know, pops up. We had an opportunity through the legal system to help a family that was messed up beyond belief the other day. And we, you know, we had the money. So we planned to be able to be. So it's, I don't know. But personally, just walking up and giving somebody some, you know, I'll leave a large tip.

Yes. That for me. So it's spontaneous. And I guess it is for you. Spontaneous giving. Yeah, mine's spontaneous too. I'll hear of some amazing organization. And I'm like, we'll gift you.

We'll gift you for the rest of our lives. Because I'm like, yes, I just want to help. And like, it's amazing. Until I see someone else. Yeah, that's it. I know, right? Yeah. So those are the seven money tendencies as part of the book and breaking down the good, the bad,

the ugly of each one, some roadblocks that could be ahead for you, depending on where you lean on the scale. But having those in the back of your mind helps you understand. this is why I do some things I do with money. What we have known at Ramsey and what you've really clarified and put a lot of work around is that the biggest obstacle between where you are today and becoming wealthy is not opportunity. It's not your income.

It's you controlling you. And you understanding you helps you control you so that you can win. The problem with my money is the person in my mirror. We've said that for years. And what you're doing here is to say, okay, if I'm a lot of you. I'm going to be a nerd. I need to be a healthy nerd. That way I don't kill my free spirit that I'm married to, you know, and run them into the dirt. And you turn Dave Ramsey's name into a cuss word and all those kinds of things. And so know yourself, know your money. We're throwing in over $150 worth of free stuff when you pre-order right now, including for a short time longer, not very much longer, a free financial coaching call if you pre-order the book with a Ramsey preferred financial coach. $150 worth of free stuff, including the audio book, the e-book, and of course, we will ship you the book as well. You can get it all at Dave Ramsey.com, or you can call the Ramsey concierge team a triple-8-227-3-2-2-23.

It's very workable for you. So the thing is that if you're not careful, you end up with your money problems aren't really problems. They're the symptoms. The real problems are under the surface. And if you whack on a money problem, it'll pop up somewhere else. It's like whack-a-mo. You won't be able to get until you get down under it and you say, okay, that's what's going on. We're not communicating about this. This is why we can't get our budget done. That's right. This is why we're always screwing up our savings account. That's exactly right. Yeah, your money problems are usually masquerading as life huge problems underneath the surface. So you go and say, okay, it's not that, my money.

My spouse can't get on board. It's because, oh, wow, we have some marriage issues here. We're not trusting each other. We're not communicating. There's lots of other stuff when you can get under that surface. Know yourself. You get some acknowledgement. This is the Dave Ramsey Show.

All right, guys, well, I'm so excited because I have the one and only Ken Coleman here. Ken, thanks for being here. So nice to be on set. This is lovely. So Ken has a nationally syndicated show all about career. It's called The Ken Coleman Show. And, yeah, you are America's Career Co-Cole. Wow, yeah, somebody gave me that title.

But yeah, we're helping folks figure out what they were created to do by identifying what they do best so they can do work they love and create results that matter to them. I love it. Well, we are shifting from career to you kin personally. So this is what I love about my new book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money, is that it's so personal. It's your money tendencies.

It's how you grew up, your dreams, your fears. Chris Hogan was on, and we went through all of his money tendencies, gave him a little quiz, and it was fantastic. Did you pass the quiz? He passed. He passed. We gave him a name. We gave him a name.

Okay. Okay, so I wanted to bring you on to talk about the money classrooms. And so in the book, I talk about, and not just in the book, but we all know in life how much your past affects who you are today, the good and the bad. We all experience that. And so the money classrooms really talks about how money is communicated. It's communicated verbally and emotionally. So, again, just as a recap, there's the anxious money classroom where it's verbally closed,

emotionally stressed, the unstable money classroom, emotionally. very stressed but verbally open, so lots of fighting you hear. There's the unaware money classroom, which is emotionally calm, but verbally closed, and then the secure money classroom, and that is verbally open and emotionally calm. So out of the four, boom, boom, boom, I just gave you some options. Yeah. How did you grow up, would you say? Certainly the unaware.

Unaware. Unaware. Classroom three. Yeah, no question. Classroom three. Mom and dad didn't have much money. My dad, you know, we're talking to lower middle class, small church patterns. So we're going to talk about a lot of money, ministry, ministry, ministry. But interestingly enough, we just didn't know that. My brother and I, we didn't know I have a younger brother, three and a half years younger

than me. Now, we didn't have a lot of the things that other people did. We heard about friends going to Disney, and I was like, what is that? You know, we went to battlefields and things of that nature. So, you know, we were on a budget, so we knew there was obviously some difference between our life, but we didn't know how tight it was, just because of a lack of income. Then my mom went to work when I was 12. And so there was no question that when I read the classrooms, we were certainly number three.

Didn't talk about it, though. There wasn't a lot of, hey, we're struggling. Hey, things are really, really tight. We knew that dad was very frugal before we knew what the word frugal meant. But yeah, not a lot of talking about our financial situation. Yeah, and I think it's hard, especially if it is, if the budgets are more on like the tighter side, if you will, because of income. Because parents, they want to share, but don't scare. And so it's a hard balance.

That's a hard balance. So to say to a four-year-old, we're struggling with the money. You know, you don't want to do that. That creates anxiety in a child. But how to healthily go about saying, hey, we're going to actually talk about the subject, though, not make it taboo. But do it without freaking the kids out. Yeah, it's interesting, too. There's another side of this.

I'm curious if you see this in your research and in the book. As I was reading through Class 4 number 3 and thinking about my upbringing, and I'm going to talk to my parents about this next time they're in town. But I also wonder if it's not just I want to protect the kids and not scare them. I think there's a little bit of pride there. I don't think any parent really wants to tell their kids, hey, you know what, we don't have a lot of margin right now. We don't have enough money to be able to do this thing, this thing, and this thing. And so I just wonder if that's not part of it as well. What are your thoughts on that?

No, I think so for sure. And I think that there's elements where one spouse will take full control over what's going on so that the other one is unaware. and that other spouse, that feels safe to them. We're like, I don't want to know what's going on. And when I talk to couples, that happens too. Oh, sure. Oh, yeah, you know, my wife just takes care of the budget. I don't want to deal with it.

Because if you knew the truth of it, it might stress you out. Ignorance is bliss, it's been said, and there's something to that. Yeah, that's really interesting. So I think, I wonder if there's a combination of that, certainly when you're older. Yes. I mean, you know, when my brother and I were teens, you know, if we didn't have the money to do something or we wanted to pair basketball shoes, dad was pretty clear, you know, hey, can't do that. But there wasn't a lot of discussion.

And I just wonder if there's not a sense of, because I'll be honest, I've felt that some. I mean, you know, we live in a wealthy community. It's just simple. And we see other kids get certain things, and it's not in our budget. The way we live here at Ramsey Solutions, it's like, if it's not there, I'm not going to just blow everything up to do it. And I felt that tinge at times. You know, I wish I could do that. I wish we could take this trip.

So I'm just being real. I think that's got to be a part of it. Oh, I think there's an element for sure. And what's interesting, too, people I've talked to in classroom number three, a few people, they start having resentment as an adult to their parents because they feel like they've been lied to. And they were like, no, I thought everything was fine. Like, I thought we were all good.

I thought they were fine. And now as an adult, I'm realizing, wow, no, my parents, you know, charged everything on credit cards for Christmas. Like, they didn't have the money. Oh, wow, my parents, the vacations we took, they didn't have the money to do that. And now they can't even retire. And I feel like I was lied to.

And yours may not be that extreme by any means. But there's an element of that, which is interesting. Even just when you just are verbal and just talk, had that verbal communication, and it's just open and honest, it takes away any of like the questions, I guess, that we have. And if we have questions, we're naturally through our lives

going to just create our own answers and tell ourselves our own story. And when it's not true, it kind of throws you off a little bit. That's right. And I find that kids are tremendously flexible. They adapt so well. And I think they adapt better than we realize. And I'm in the middle of this right now.

You've got three. I've got three. you know, I've got two in middle school, one in high school, and I'm learning that there are things I do at times to protect or to shield. And then I realize I don't need to do that. If I talk to them like young adults, they're on their way. Certainly my 15-year-old is, you know, and you let them see the facts and explain it. They may not like it, but they can process it. I don't think we give our kids credit enough to be able to adapt to reality. Oh, yeah. They're much smarter.

We didn't give them credit for. I can say that just with a five-year-old. But no, so you, I mean, all what you just said, though, I feel like are you trying to raise your family in that classroom four where it's open communication and low stress because it's under control? Yeah, open communication, but not too much. You know, because, you know, I'll tell you all three of our kids, like, how much money do you make? I know.

I know. I'm not telling you. I know. Why aren't you going to tell me? Because you'll tell everybody you know. That's right. And so understanding that that is a private thing. There's multiple reasons we talk them through that.

So we're open to, hey, we're not going to be able to do this. This year, we're not going to do this because we're saving up to do this. And we've had that through our journey. And we've also said, hey, you need to understand something. I'm not going to, I've told my 15-year-old, look, I'll match whatever money you save for your car. I will take care of your insurance. You're going to pay for your gas. And you will also pay for 50% of your repairs to your car.

Oh, dang. Well, look. Good for you. No, don't defense. I'm not. But here's the deal. They've got to begin to realize that life happens. Oh, yeah.

And when life happens, money disappears. And so it can't be, all right, you get a job and you pay for some of the car, and then I'm going to bankroll the rest of it. No. If your car breaks down, we're going to look in your bank account and we're going to see what you got. Give me 50 percent, pal. I'll do the other 50.

By the way, you're out of gas. You don't have any money? I'm going to come pick you up. the car stays parked until you have enough money to pay for gas. Because at some point, they've got to appreciate pain, money, and how all that tension that exists. Because even those of us have emergency funds, I've got to tell you, I just put money in my wife's suburban, and we had it,

and it was there, and it didn't even phase us financially. But it really bothered me. It's terrible. I hate car repairs. I'm so irritated about having to take money out. that I say, but they've got to experience that pain. That's right, that's right. So we are open to an extent of, hey, this is reality,

and this is what you're going to have to do. And if you don't have the many, you know, one of the kids got mad, broke their PlayStation thing. Guess what I said? You're going to pay for it. Yep, yep. Here's the one ordered a video game without permission. I get the email.

Oh, PlayStation says we just ordered a new game. Did you ask me for permission? No. Great. pony up. At least your kids, it's on purpose. We'll randomly get an Apple email. This happens all the time.

And it was like, you just bought 1917 the movie. It's like some war movie. I was like, who ordered this? We had no clue. Oh, yeah, they'll just clip. Oh, it's terrible. I'm like, no. We have a mutual friend, Bill.

I don't even know if you've heard of a mutual friend. His kid is playing one of those. I think it's Fortnite. And they tell you, you can get this armor or whatever. armor, skin, weapon, or whatever. And they just kind of throw it out there, and the kid's like, oh, sure, I'll buy that. Wrapped up $700. No, no.

No clue. No. Bill gets an email. He's like, about it had a stroke. So we've got to be careful on this stuff, you know what I mean? Because the kid didn't know. Kids like, sure, I'll buy it. Oh, yeah.

Ching, ching, ching, ching. So anyway. It's crazy. No, it's so much. He's going to have to pay that back. That's so funny. So I think they've got, so we make them pay for things that. that they broke, that they do,

so that they begin to feel the sting of decisions and what will cost you, not just in restrictions or other repercussions, but financial repercussions. I think that's where we're doing, I think, a good job. Yes. So they begin to appreciate money.

No, they do. Well, and there's a level of emotion that they have attached to their own money, right? And it's like when they feel that car repair, when they feel that PlayStation thing, they have to pay back or, you know, buy a new control or whatever. They feel it so much. And having that emotion early on in life versus the first time they're feeling that at 23.

That's right. You're setting them up so well. So well. Okay, question. As a parent with older kids, trying to grow up in that classroom number four, I've realized that when you have open communication about money, you usually take those same habits of communication into other areas of your life, right? Into your marriage when it's not just about money, but it's about other things. And so for you with kids, you feel like because you're open about money and open to have these conversations that you're,

you're more open in communication about other things in life as a parent? No question, because, you know, it's a situation where I learned early on that the kids are more aware of things than I realized. You know what I mean? And so it's, I have a little bit of a neurotic fear about my kids feeling like I'm withholding information. I'm not going to call it lying because I would never willfully lie, not even a white lie. But I think as parents sometimes we get close to that line of a white lie where we say, well, I'm withholding information.

And early on, I mean really early on, the kids would ask me some questions, and I would just go, boom, here's the answer. And then Stacey would be like, what are you doing? I went, they asked me. And I think that the approach here is that I want them to feel like when they ask me a question, that I'm going to always shoot them straight. And a lot of times saying, I don't know, is the way to do it. And I think that there have been times where I'll say to them,

you can't do this or I'm not okay with this. and they'll say why, and I go, I don't even have a really great reason, but I don't feel good about it. And one of these days you're going to make these decisions. And I think what it creates in our home is a bit of back and forth, where it's not just, I said so, no conversation.

Because that was my upbringing. Like, love you, Dave and Sharon. But the whole line, no is a complete sentence. You know, like that was told to me all the time. And I'm like, but now as a parent, I'm like, my generation, whatever, all the feelings that I have in life now. I'm like, no, I want to be able to communicate the why behind that. It's true.

See, no is not a complete sentence. Let's destroy that. You ready? I'm going to take this on. Let me tell you why. Ken Coleman, Sr. too. So we'll lump in my dad as well. We love our parents.

We love them. Here's why I don't think no is a complete sentence. It's a complete sentence to you. But the very idea of communication means the ball is hit across the net and the kid hits it back. Communication is a two-way street. And so in your mind, no, because I said so, you think, well, that's final. I have been consistent and shown authority. Here's what's happening.

You shut your kid down and your kid walks away and you think the narrative is over and it's not over in their head. And you're creating more issues and more questions as opposed to having real communication. So the way I approach it is this. No, here's why. And even if I don't have a great why, I go, it's a feeling. You just going to have to trust me. I don't feel good about it.

I don't have a bunch of reasons. this could happen, this could happen. But I just don't think it's a good decision. And they don't like it. And they'll ask and keep going back and forth. My no remains a no. Yes, yep. But I am allowing them to weigh in on it.

And I joked about this at one of our events recently, you know, on social media. I've just said no social media for the kids. Oh, crazy. Until they're out of high school. And they hate it. And they're pushing back big time. And they'll say things like, this is really dumb. Well, the first couple times they did it, I got mad because you just,

respected me and I punished. Now they keep pushing. I keep saying no. And when they go, this is dumb, I go, I know. And I'm engaging. I heard you. I hear your feelings. It's still a no. And so I would just a play on that. No is not a complete sense. It's no. Here's why. It's still going to be no. I know you don't like it. Sorry. Yep. Yep. How do you feel about it? It's okay. It's still a no. Yes, that's right. Let your no be know. You're yes to be. No, Chip Todd one time said, your kids need to think, well, okay, I'm going to butcher the quote. He said, your kids need to think that they can kill you, but you will not be killed. That is way better than what I just said.

Isn't that great, though? And I was like, oh, because there's going to be times. I mean, even a toddler fit up until, you know, when they're 15 or something. It's like, no, they have to believe they can, but you will, but they know you will not be killed. And let me confess something. I struggled with that for a long time and still do, because, I want my kids to like me, but the problem is they're not going to like me. Not all the time?

Most of the time, probably. If you're parenting, there's a lot of not like, but I know they love me. For sure. I know there's respect there, even when they don't show it. So you've got to get over that parents. But I think it is. It's all that classroom for. It's that open side of communication where a lot of parents don't engage sometimes.

And sometimes you don't have the emotional capacity. Sometimes you don't have the time, all of it, but pushing in and having that dialogue. Because when you have dialogue in other areas of your life, money will just go right into play in the oven flow. Ken, thanks for being here. I love hearing all about how you grew up and kids today and all of it. Thank you for having me. You're doing great work. It's such a great show.

Thanks, Ken Coleman. Okay, where can everyone find you? Ken Coleman.com. We have a lot of free resources, a lot of great paid resources. And, of course, the Ken Coleman show anywhere you want to watch it, YouTube, podcast, Sirius XM, and your local talk radio show. It's all there. All career stuff, you guys.

Go to him. Ken Coleman. Thanks again, Ken. Thanks for having me. All right, one of my favorite packages to ever show up on my door is my tuft and needle. mattress. I've got a couple now, and seriously, I love this mattress. You guys know exactly how it is. When you're juggling the demands of mom and wife and work and friend and so many other things, good sleep is a must. And I've never slept better. Tufton Needle is the best rated mattress on Amazon

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watching Minnow today. Download the Minow app or visit go menno.com. That's G-O-M-I-N-O-O-com to get your free trial. All right, some of my favorite parts of this show is getting to answer your questions. So my team went through all the social channels to pull out some great questions that you guys have. Kayla from Facebook, she says, hi, Rachel, we bought a home pre-Dave. with the first-time homebuyer program. We didn't put a down payment down when we closed, and instead it's the second mortgage and isn't due until we refinance, sell the house,

or pay off the mortgage in full. Second mortgage is $11,180. I've contacted the mortgage company, and they said that we can't make payments on it until after we've done one of the options above. I feel like I'm cheating on baby step two. What do you advise? Well, what I would say is this all has to do with your home.

Okay? So I would put all of this in baby step six. So you're not cheating baby step two at all. Baby step two is your consumer debt. So this is credit cards, student loans, personal loans, car loans, anything like that, that goes in baby step two. Anything that has to do with the house, like a mortgage or mortgage specifically, that is going to be in baby step six.

So continue on. When you get to baby step three, you know, if you guys want to, you know, refinance then. If you want to, whatever you want to do, it doesn't matter. You can make those options. but when you get to babysept six, that's when you're going to start working on the mortgage, and that includes your second mortgage. And you guys, that's one reason we always say to go ahead and put 10 to 20% down for your down payment when you're buying a home.

And you're going to do this in Baby Step 3B. So once you're completely out of debt, you have a fully funded emergency fund, then save up for that down payment. Having that down payment is going to simplify this process and get you ahead, and to show you what kind of house you can afford. programs like this, the first-time homebuyer program, unless people buy homes, don't have any money. And so that's not to shame, Kayla,

that's not to shame you. But it's to say, hey, you have to do this stuff in this order. This is why we talk about this, because when you're broke and you buy a home, it stresses you out because, you know, there's expenses that happen, all of this stuff. There's such responsibility to home ownership. So you want to be in a good financial position to do it.

So to Kayla, to answer your question, it's in baby step six because it's a mortgage. But if you guys are going to sell in the future, make sure that you are doing it in the process because the process works. Are you guys? Well, thanks so much for listening to this episode. It's so fun to dive into all these topics with you. And if you have not subscribed to the podcast, make sure to hit that subscribe button. And if the spirit leads, you can leave a review. And as always, make sure you take control of your money and create a life you love. So if you guys enjoyed this podcast, we have

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