The Rachel Cruze Show - Make Progress With Your Money (Even When America's Not)

Episode Date: February 20, 2023

No matter what culture, social media or economists are telling you, you can make progress with your money. First, we’ll look at why some people are claiming America is doomed financially—plus what the data really says. Then, financial expert George Kamel joins me for a conversation about the sneaky habit stealing our paycheck: lifestyle creep.   In this episode: ·      Can America Recover Financially? ·      The Sneaky Habit Stealing Your Paycheck (With George Kamel) Helpful Resources: Christian Healthcare Ministries Financial Peace University EveryDollar Smart Money Happy Hour Follow George Kamel                                                 Sponsors pay the producer of this show, The Lampo Group, LLC, advertising fees for mentioning their services or products during programming. Advertising fees are not based upon or otherwise tied to any product sale or business transacted between any consumer or sponsor. The following sponsors have paid for the programming you are viewing: Christian Healthcare Ministries.   Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Well, you know what's a fun exercise that's not really fun is going through your bank statement and checking off everything that could be considered a luxury. And you're going to go, oh my gosh, you add all that up over one month because I couldn't save for the car and save up for the house, but I just blew $800 and random crap. Hey guys, welcome to this episode of the Rachel Cruise Show podcast. I'm so glad that you're here. So in this episode, we're going to talk about making progress with your money, even if America isn't.

So you're going to hear a conversation I had with Ramsey personality and my friend. friend George Camel on how to avoid lifestyle creep. But first, let's talk about America. Can it recover financially and how does it affect you? Interesting stuff. So take a listen. Now, I've heard a lot of people talking about the doom and gloom of America, that America is doomed. We're never going to recover. You know, whether you watch the news or you see it on social media, it just feels like this narrative is so common. And again, it feels like, it feels. feels like people consistently are saying that there's so much change in our culture and our society and our economy, we're never going to go back to the way it was. It's going downhill. And it's just

like doom, gloom all the time. And so especially over the past couple of years, which obviously we experience a ton of change, I am feeling this narrative more and more. And sometimes I wonder if like every generation feels this way, right? Where you're like, oh my gosh, is the world coming to an end? And there's a video going around right now from a guy who says that America, is spiraling downhill because we are overdue for a big crisis. And the video's gotten over 2 million views on YouTube and people are talking about it. So people are worried. I understand 100%.

But as I was watching this video, I was like, hmm, okay, this is fascinating. So I wanted to take some time to unpack just three of his claims by looking at the facts. And in the video, again, he mentions his three main ideas about the future. And his first key for the future is memory. So this is interesting because he talks about the generational theory, which suggests that a crisis happens every 80 years. And supposedly every 80 years or so is when the oldest generation in our society passes on. So there's no one left who's lived through this historic event to go and educate the younger generations.

So since there's no one that has the actual memory of the hardship that they faced and the perseverance, they had to push through the mistakes that they learned from, all of that, they are gone and there's no one from that generation left. So this theory is saying that we are cycling through that defining moment of conflict because of our timeline. And because of this, some people are concerned that we are due for our next big conflict. While others are saying that we are in the middle of a big conflict right now. But he says that lots of millennials in particular are feeling nostalgic back to simpler times,

like how they grew up in the 90s. Okay, so this is fascinating because you think about the people that were raised, you know, in the Great Depression, World War II, all of that. And it's like your grandparents, and for a lot of people, you know, they have passed on. And so having that connection to people that have been through something really difficult, really hard,

what they learned from, the mistakes that maybe they made, things they look at, like that perspective is really important. And not that we haven't gone through something hard over the last 80 years, but you do. think about that great generation. And yeah, I think there's something really true about that. And that's why I think it's really important to read. I think that's why it's really important to understand history because you don't want to repeat the same mistakes over and over again. And some people are saying we're doing that now. But I do think looking to the past is really

important to learn for the future. So I do like that point. Okay, his next point is about the Greek word nosis, which just means knowledge to an elevated degree. So he claims that people today know a little bit about a lot of things, and very few people are actual experts on really complex ideas. And so a lot of us, again, kind of have this inch deep, but a mile wide thinking mentality. And that makes sense because of social media and all these short clips that we see, the news stories that we watch for four minutes. And it's like we are bombarded by headlines and articles on all these major issues. So we kind of feel like we are dabbling in all these different things, but we're not going deep into an issue.

And I would say that's true. I don't know if that's the decline of a culture. I haven't gone that deep with it, but I do think it can be really dangerous where you're like, okay, I read three articles and I feel like I'm an expert now in that I can go and, you know, work in this field or do this thing. And you're like, no, no, no, like you actually need to study what is going on. And that's why I love getting professionals in my corner, people that are tax professionals or getting a great insurance agent or an investment professional, right?

Like I, you know, and I know this stuff because I teach it, but there's only to a point that I'm like, I'm going to know every detail of it. So getting people around you that are actual experts on things is really important. So when we go off on our own and think that we know everything, and again, this could be everything from parenting or money or, you know, fill in the blank, it can be dangerous. and I probably have a little bit of this in me,

because I do love to research and I can go down rabbit holes. And it's like I spend two hours on one subject going down a rabbit hole. I'm like, I understand it all. I understand how the world works. And it can be easy to think that. So we do have to be careful

where we're getting our knowledge from and what we're putting into practice in our life. That's why I like, even specifically when it comes to money, things that have a long track record. Look at someone who's giving money advice or something that they're talking about that has a long track record that you know is proven. So I would agree with him, I guess.

I don't know if I would say it's the demise of a culture. Maybe it is, but I think it's very true that we have only a limited level of knowledge on a lot of things, but not very deep on one. All right, the last point, he says, according to the video, the economy is the third key to the future, and there's something called the big cycle. And apparently a change in world powers occurs

every 250 years. And according to history, the wealth disparity creates, a risk for extreme leaders to take control. And lots of people are saying that the gap between the wealthy and the poor is growing larger and larger. And some are afraid that we're heading in that direction. But because of that, then again, these big powers can take over and all of it. So here's where I may have a little bit of a different perspective is because of my job and talking to so many of you throughout the years, like, oh my gosh, hundreds of thousands

from events and people being on the Ramsey show and interacting with you on social media, I've just seen so many people get out of their current situation because they had the hope and the belief that they could. And so regardless of the income they were making, the debt level they were at, this belief that they have the ability to take control of their lives and what's going to change their future is them, that's where I'm like, there is something still in the world that people have that belief.

And if we lose that belief altogether, then yeah, I think there's a level we're doomed. But there's enough of you out there that are taking control of your money and saying, you know, regardless of where I'm at, if I do smart things with my money, if I live on less than I make, if I save, if I don't buy things and go deeply in debt, if I invest over a long period of time, if I do these things, I will become stable and grow wealth and be able to win with money. So I see enough of that as like the Pollyanna person in life, I'm not trying to be Pollyanna. But for real, people changing their lives because they believe

that they can regardless of what's going on above them, if that makes sense. So, so yeah, I don't know if I fully agree with him on that, because I just believe that there's enough people in our world who still believe that they have the ability to change their lives. So are we doomed to never recover financially? Well, let's just look at some facts, okay? So yes, a lot of things have changed, even over the last 20 years.

Think about 20 years. You know, it was two years after 9-11, which was a traumatic reset in America. And then you had 07 and 09, and it was a huge crisis financially. I mean, it was one of the greatest drops in our economy since the Great Depression. And again, you look at like the summer of 2009 and where the market was. Like, it's just, it was tough. But what I do look at, you know, even just at the market, yes, while things are up and down,

the trajectory is still going up. And also another factor that always plays a part in the economy is inflation. And so many experts say that a small amount of inflation is a good thing. It creates a healthy environment to grow and thrive in the economy. but the Federal Reserve says 2% is ideal where we are at 6 to 7%. So that is not ideal. And we're feeling it. You know, wages are not keeping up with inflation.

People feel like that still everyday expenses are just so much more expensive. And that margin they may have had in their budgets is shrunk. It's not there. But again, the good news is that you look back over 7, 8 months of steady inflation decline, actually. And the yearly inflation rate is predicted to be at 3.4. 2% at the end of this year. So we don't have a crystal ball, but that's a positive we can look at.

And then also I would say another positive is no major pillar of our financial system is gone, right? Like the stock market is not gone. The government hasn't taken away our 401ks and Roth IRAs. You know, major insurance stuff, like isn't just gone. Like, like these pillars of our financial life that are really big for us to survive

are not just completely wiped out, right? if they start taking away some of that stuff, I would be like, what's going on? What's going on? But overall, I'm like, I just think that we can still win. I saw a TikTok video of someone on the opposite end of the spectrum. His parents were immigrants that came into this country like 30 years ago.

And he was saying how something ridiculous, like everyone should have a $200,000 Lamborghini. $200,000 is nothing. Meaning, there is so much money to be had. Like, there is so much opportunity. You guys are missing it out. There's money to be made everywhere. How do you not see it?

And his perspective coming from a family that immigrated to this country was like, there's opportunity everywhere. So it's just so interesting to see, again, people's perspectives and how they look. So I like to look at facts. I like to look at things that have a long trajectory, patterns that are going on. So while there's a lot of theories floating out there, I just really believe that we're going to be okay. I do. I really, really do.

Now, Rachel, in five years from now, who's hiding in a bunker, eating her canned being, may say something different if like the world goes crashing around us, but I just don't think that's the reality. I really don't. I think that there's a lot of uncertainties still. I think we're not going to see a perfect economy. There's going to be ups and downs like there always have been. But I am just being stable.

I really am. And in the midst of change, I think one factor that is really, really key is to be consistent. Be consistent on what you do with your money and put things in place to have those safety nets. You know, I mean, don't have debt. When you have debt, you have risk. When you owe people money, that is a level of risk in your life. Have money in the bank.

Have an emergency fund. We talk about having $1,000 before you get out of debt. And then once you're out of debt, bump that up to three to six months of expenses. Be doing that. Be investing consistently, regardless of what the market is doing, even if it's down. If you're at that point, keep investing.

Be consistent in that. That is how you grow wealth over a long period of time. So if you have more questions on all this stuff, I really would recommend going through Financial Peace University. This is our class that walks you through all the basics of tried and true financial principles. And they're common sense, you guys. It's not complicated.

You don't have to have a master's degree in finance to win with money. It really is this level of common sense and consistency, biblical knowledge, when it comes to being wise with your money. And it is that simple. So while there's a lot of hysteria out there, I just want to zoom in and give you hope again that you have the ability to handle your money and to change your future.

You do. And I've seen it over and over and over again. So if you believe in it and you're like, yes, we've got this, but you have a friend who may be a pessimist, maybe an enneagram six, may think that the world is coming to the end all the time. We'll spread some hope, calm everyone down, and be consistent on what we're doing with our money.

Today is very special because I'm joined by my friend and co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour. Special. George Camel. It's so great to be here. So glad you're here. Different set. Different vibe. Usually we're like on the Smart Money Happy Hour.

We're like over there doing Smart Money Happy Hour. I know, and now we're here. Didn't have to travel far. Nope, just a few steps, George. Just a few steps. Okay, so one topic that I really want to talk about on the show and I thought you would be perfect to chat about is a term called lifestyle creep. Because you think I'm creepy?

You creepy. That's why. Do you know the radio head song, Creep? I'm a creep. Yeah. Is that old? Yeah. I was going to say that. It's been covered many times.

So I thought you'd know like the cover version from Samantha Mumba or whoever you listen to. I do love Samantha Muma. She had one great single. I'll take that to my. Never forget. My eighth grade heart. Never forget you, Sam. Okay.

So lifestyle creep is a term that is everywhere. In fact, there has more than 29 million views on TikTok. alone for the hashtag. So the term just refers to the gradual increase of our lifestyle, right? It creeps up over time as you make more money. Is that a good summary? And you don't notice it. So it's like things that just become normal to you, just stay normal. And then as you make a little bit more money, you're like, oh, this, I'll put this, I'll add this little service or this thing. And then life becomes normal. It doesn't sound like a big deal until you realize, oh, you don't have any money to build wealth and live your life. That's right, because you're spending it all in lifestyle.

And you go, where did it go? What happens? I got a raise, I thought. Where's my raise? I don't know. We're going to find out. Lifestyle creep. So, this is what's fascinating is there was a great video that I wanted to kind of look at with you, George.

I have not seen this video. I know, because it talks all about lifestyle creep. So let's kind of just, let's dissect our thoughts and our opinions on this video. Happy 16th birthday, babe. Thanks, moms. Read it out loud. Happy birthday, babe. It's time to get a job.

Seriously? Yep. Hey, are you guys hiring? Yeah, it's $11 an hour. It's the most important job in the restaurant. Dishwashers. Don't be late. All right, first real paycheck.

That's it. Hey, I'd like the iPhone 14, please. No problem in trading in a 13 Pro Max. You got it. Hey, it's your roommate. I've asked you so many times to please put your dishes in the dishwasher. I can't wait until I can live on my own. Nice resume. Dishwasher, huh? Most important job in the restaurant.

Be sure you want to learn bar back? No way. Look at all these tips. Hey, yeah, you're going to have to find a new roommate. I'm out of there. Wow. My first solo apartment. Hey, we want to promote you to food and beverage manager, $65,000 a year. Yes, I'd like to find that vehicle, please. No problem. Let's go to some paperwork. Hey, thanks for coming down. You've been great for us. We'd like to be.

promote you to district manager, $95,000 a year. Oh, that's so great. I can finally move into the city, try more of those restaurants, travel more. I might even get a dog. So we have some really good news after this year. We're retiring, kind of. What are you talking about? Yeah, I mean, we just closed on our 12th property. We make way more with that than we ever did working. What? How can you afford all of that? You spend a lot of money. No, I don't. I just enjoy myself. I'm treating myself for my hard work.

We weren't going to say anything, but I know you're really happy, but every time you make more money, you spend more money. So while you were upgrading cars and apartments, we bought property. Before we knew it, we had equity in the first ones, which we rolled over to buy more property, and it just kind of snowballed from there. Okay, you got the bill. Wow.

That took some... What a story. What a journey. What a journey. What a roller coaster of financial emotion. And what a time that she took to record that. I know. Well done.

Well done. Well done. But it's a perfect picture of exactly what lifestyle creep is, right? You get a raise and like, oh, finally, I can move out on my own. Or finally, I can get that car I want it. Or finally, and you end up just spending it all. Dangerous. Well, the most dangerous words, I think, financially, you can say is, I deserve.

Yes. Because you go, I work. So I deserve, I got the promotion. I deserve. a nice new car. Yes. And that's when we start doing stupid with zeros on the end. Yeah.

And then you keep saying again, well, it's my money and I worked hard for it. So I should be able to up my lifestyle, right? And there's a balance here because obviously we're all about you winning financially and we're not against stuff and all of that. Yeah, we sound like fuddy-dotties. We're like, don't spend any money, kids. I know, but it's when your stuff has you is the problem. And so you have to know and understand, okay, when I'm spending money,

it's a, you know, opportunity cost because you're like, okay, yeah, if I spend 40 grand here on a brand new car, then that's 40 grand that I don't have anymore to possibly use for a down payment on a house. That feels so paralyzing sometimes because you're like, well, I want to go out to the nice meal, but it's $200. I could have used that towards the upgrade on the car.

To something else. So at some point, and the great filter is, am I paying cash for this? Is it in the budget? Did I plan for it versus impulsively going into debt, doing it on payments. That's where it gets risky. And is the future self, my future self? Well, future Rachel regret this. And is future Rachel doing the things that she wants to do? Is present Rachel doing the things for future Rachel, right? Because I'm like, if I'm sacrificing $200 to go out to dinner all the

time with my friends and I have no money saved to buy a house or actually do something smart for the future, then that's not a good trade. But if you're still working towards your goals and have the income to supplement some lifestyle stuff over here, right? Would you agree? So number one, yeah, have goals. Are you on track for those goals? And will this decision derail that goal? If not, that's great. You can go out to eat and also save up for that house.

Yes, that's exactly right. You can enjoy both. For sure. Just do it intentionally. Number two, I would say look out for conveniences. This is where lifestyle creep really comes in. Man, we are so used to like, you know, whether it's delivery services or getting like a ride share somewhere. You know, it's just so easy to like have these conveniences and you just end up spending a little bit at a time.

Well, here's the ideas. I work so hard, I should just doordash the meal instead of me having to go out to get it. And you spent $27 on a $9 burrito. On the delivery fee. That's it. I know. I will go get the pizza for Rachel instead of her paying for delivery. That is true.

I have heard that from George many times. It hurts my heart. He hates food delivery services. I know. But that is an easy lifestyle creep one that you need to just look out for. I work hard. I deserve. Any convenience culture stuff, just be aware.

Lifestyle creep. Okay. So if you're worried, gosh, do I have lifestyle creep? What is happening in my life? Here are just some friendly signs to look out for. Some red flags, if you will. Number one, notice the luxuries that you pay for. So this is like gym memberships, getting your hair done, getting your nails done,

streaming services, delivery fees, like anything that is convenience culture-ish, right, that you're kind of just tacking on because, yeah, you have the money for it, but then that stuff starts to become normal. That's when you need to watch out. Just be aware. Again, we're not saying that you can't do any of it. but making sure your long-term goals are being fulfilled, as well as what you're doing in the present,

that you have the money for it. Well, you know what's a fun exercise that's not really fun, is going through your bank statement and checking off everything that could be considered a luxury. Oh. And you're going to go, oh, my gosh, you add all that up over one month. And you're like, oh, and I was complaining

because I couldn't save for the car and save up for the house, but I just blew $800 and random crap. Totally. I just finished the psychology of money. Oh, I've heard great things. It is really good, but he talks about it was saving. you either have to choose your ego or savings. Whoa.

And I'm like, man, it's like what are the things that we spend our money on just to keep up and feel good about ourselves and all things versus having the margin to save. That one will hit. Truth all the way around. Okay, second kind of warning sign is notice the people that you spend time with. If you hang out with Rachel, you're just going to blow money left and right. No, this is huge, though, because I'm like, what becomes normal in your life?

If your friends are always going out to the bars, you know, on the weekends. To the bars? To the bars. To the bars. Grandpa. But it's easy to blow. It's where my friends are going. You could easily blow 100 or 200 bucks every weekend just going out with friends.

Yes. And that adds up to 800 bucks a month. Yeah, and I think it's even more than that, George, because I'm like, if you're around people constantly that wear certain brands or go on certain trips or drive certain cars or their kids go to certain school. Like, you just kind of adapt to the people you're hang around. I think so. Yes. The cars they drive, the stuff they wear. Yeah, and not that it's a bad thing, but again, you just want to make sure, like, okay, my financial goals are kind of one thing. I value these things in life and making sure you're around people that value the same things. Right. And it's okay. Like, if you have friends that are

in a different place financially, you can still be friends, but have some hard conversations and set up the boundaries and go, hey, I can't go out to eat, but you guys are welcome to come over my place. We can get some pizzas. Yeah. Yeah. And so set those boundaries up. if you're like, this is going to cause me to derail my financial goals. You know, we have couples like that in our life. Like, we'll be like, you know, we'll be like, yeah, we're going to do a double date. And we'll always do like three categories of restaurants. Like, are we going to go big?

Has it been a while since, like, we've been out on a day and we like have, like, we have in our budget. Or is it like, nope, we're going to go cheap and then do game night after? You know what I mean? Like you can have those conversations. There's levels. And I think that that's great. I don't know. I think it's kind of fun.

It's like one, two or three. Yes. And find people that have the same goals as you. If they're all trying to get out of debt, they're all going to have the same values, which is let's not go spend a bunch of money out to eat every weekend. I know. I know. Friendship.

Who know? Well, you're strict with friends. I'm very strict. I don't know. I don't know if I would have a lot of friends. I try to limit. Very intentional. Rachel.

They can't get through to them? No. If you can't, who can? No. And we go on couple strips and they all are like up in the MX? And like, yes, they all like have upgrades. and stuff. Do they care that you're seeing them

swipe the cards? No. No, but they'll say it sometimes. They're like, sorry, Rach. I'm like, hey, I'm not judging. I can be friends with everyone. But they feel a little shame because you're watching them

thinking that you're judging them and you're not. You're like, oh, I live your life. I can be friends. We always say debt is not a sin. It's not wise. That's true. It's not wise, but...

You're not a bad person. No. But are all your friends getting out of debt? Most of my friends work here. And so I'm super... You know what I'm all fuddy detties. but no they have to I have friends that cause me to go out.

I'm gonna bring you to the dark side see people swipe a credit card at dinner, George. I could never. We should do that as an exercise. Just walk up people's tables, being like, is that great? Oh, yeah, you're gonna be paying for that next month. Enjoy that steak, because you're paying for that.

We, I would get punched in the face everywhere I go. All right, last but not least, it could be helpful to document your spending year to year. And I love this. It's a document. about your financial life. I know. So Winston and I, we did this.

We have the Everdolar app. So we use it. So we went back in this past December to look at the whole year of 2022. And it is fascinating to see like, okay, so what did we really spend? What did we save? What categories?

It's all color-coded. Oh, yeah. It's beautiful. Which I love. Yeah. And you're like, okay. And I felt good, George, because I feel like we spent less

than what we even allotted. Oh, that's good. Pat on the back. Well, you know, A plus for us. Spotify, is like the new cool thing. You know, you share, here's my top artists.

We need to do that with every dollar to where you share it, every dollar wrapped. And it's like, you spend $400 at Taco Bell. And you're like, oh, don't want to, can I not share that one? I don't want that one. I went to Taco Bell on Saturday night, George. Really? Yeah, I did. What's your order at Taco Bell?

And then two soft tacos. And I did nachos and cheese, but Winston ordered it in the drive-thru and said nach cheese. It was 90 cents. And I thought, oh, that's cheap. And they only got me the cheese. Because you said nacho cheese. I know, but I thought that I assumed chips with it, and I didn't.

Oh, my goodness. That's okay. Wow. Well, I hope you enjoyed your cheese on the cell? It was delicious. You just ate cheese? Fully sober. Did you dip the soft taco in the cheese?

No, I was supposed to have chips with it, and they didn't put it in. So what did you eat? I had lots of cheese there. I can't. Oh, okay. You didn't eat the cheese on the time. I was just wondering, like, did you just eat it with a spoon, like a tiny soup? No, I may have if I had a spoon.

It's pretty delicious. Disgusting. Pretty delicious. That wasn't cheese to begin with. by the way. I know. It's so gross. All right.

So this is important. We want you to celebrate the pay increases, but here's the deal. Use a portion of that to meet your long-term goals. So here's a great way to think about it. If you get a raise, also increase your savings portion as well. Percentage-wise. Yes. Increase your giving portion percentage-wise,

and then it's okay to increase your spending portion percentage-wise. Then you're balanced. You feel good. You did it with intentionality. That's right. You don't have to wonder where it went. You know exactly where it went. And the percentages will, that's the best way to do it, right?

Because if you get a $10,000 raise or something, it's like, yeah, you can spend a small percentage of it, save a small percentage, give some. And you just divvy it out. And that's what makes you feel in control versus like, oh, I'm going to go upgrade my car $10,000. And I'm making $10,000. Well, I always like to do like giving first, then saving, and then whatever's left, you know is your kind of fun spending money. Yep, too much. But don't go spend first and go like, well, if there's money at the end, that's great, I'll save that. That never works out.

We're humans. We are humans. We are wired to spend. That is true. So true. Oh, lifestyle creep. It's a tricky one. But we got, you just got to be intentional.

And I mean, you've been there, right? Was there anything like a point in your life where you definitely would say I fell for lifestyle creep? Yes. It was, and I'm going to say 2020, did a big one for me. And it was the delivery services, George, don't get mad at me. But it's the grocery deliveries and the food. I don't know. There's no shame and condemnation.

There's freedom and crime. Well, when I got my first. first job at Apple, I was making like $16 an hour at my top level. And I was like, I am rich. And so I would buy all of this music gear and video gear and all of this stuff because I was like, I was living at home, didn't have expenses. I could have been saving money and avoiding student loan debt and avoiding credit card debt. But instead I was like, I'm young, let's live. Live. That gear is sitting in a closet collecting dust. Oh, so sad. I know. Just the voice of her George. We're all guilty of this. Of course, yes. But we got to learn from our mistakes. And every time

we make more money, be intentional with it. That's it. George, thanks for being here. Always a pleasure. As always. Appreciate you. Where can everyone find you? Instagram at George Camel of the K

and of course our podcast Smart Money Happy Hour every Thursday. Yep, make sure to tune in you guys and share this episode with a friend or family member who might be climbing the professional ladder and they need to look out for lifestyle creep. Oh, George, what a guy. So Lifestyle creep though.

It is a real thing. So I loved our conversation. Hopefully it encouraged you to stay. intentional with your money. So thank you, George, for being a guest on the show. And thank you guys so much for listening to this episode. If you love this podcast, make sure to hit that follow button. And if the spirit leads, you can leave a review. And as always, remember to take control of your money and create a life you love.