The Rachel Cruze Show - The Financial Struggle No One's Talking About (With Marcy Bursac)

Episode Date: October 23, 2024

💵 Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app! If you have a heart for adoption but feel overwhelmed by the process (and the costs), you’re not alone. In this special episode, author Marcy Bursac shares her tips as a foster mom. Next Steps: 🎥 Watch my video How to Double Your Money (Here’s What It Takes). 🧑‍🧑‍🧒 Learn more about adopting through foster care. Connect With Our Sponsors: 🏥 Learn more about Christian Healthcare Ministries. 🔒 Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. Listen to More From Ramsey Network: 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 🎙️ The Ramsey Show   💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 💰 George Kamel 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 EntreLeadership   Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Well, hey, you guys, I am so excited about today's episodes for a lot of reasons because I think one of the questions we get when it comes to money is around kids and family, but also a specific segment when it comes to adoption. So I'm so excited that Marcy Bursack is joining us because she is an expert on this entire field and her heart is so big when it comes to the world of adoption. So Marcy, thanks for being here. I am so delighted to be able to spend time with you, Rachel, and to be able to share with your listeners what kind of I learned. the hard way that hopefully can help them really make a dream that's on their car. I feel like we've just kind of been in the same circles and specifically when it comes to, you know, doing this financially wise as well has been a big part. So talk me through international versus domestic, timeline wise, and financially like how much it costs on each of those. Yeah. So when you go through adoption,

you have three choices. You can do international, you can do domestic or you can do foster care adoption. So with international adoption, minimum you're going to spend is about $34,000 out of pocket. through all the travel expenses, legal fees, etc. Through domestic infant adoption, minimum is $30,000. So slightly less, still substantial, right? And then for foster care adoption, you're spending anywhere from zero to $5,000, depends on the state. But all of that is then refundable through a federal tax credit. And then additionally, through foster care adoption, things like health insurance, dental insurance, typically states cover a significant portion until the child's 18, on top of it. Some states even offer like child care, like before and after school programs, preschool, until the children are 13. So I often say that in the foster care space, this really has nothing to do with finances. Like it's not, can I afford this? It's really a question you ask with your heart of when a child's coming from a situation like this, can I really help them through this? And can I endure a lot of emotional things myself?

For sure. Yeah. That's so good because I do know, you know, having a family is expensive, right? But even the process to get there for some people, depending on their journey, whether they're, you know, looking to, you know, do IVF or they're looking, you know, for infertility treatments, whether they're looking for adoption route. I'm like all of these, to a point, some people say, oh my gosh, I just don't even know if we can afford to do this. And I don't know if I want to take the risk financially to try something that may not work out. Right. So there's like all these

questions. And I feel like that's what I get a lot in my line of work and be like, how do I, what does this look like to cash flow this or what does this look like to be wise financially? But the beautiful thing is about this specific route, it is the least expensive. And in a way, I mean, I think our church is huge when it comes to foster care and Tennessee kids belong as an organization that we pair so closely with. And like it's one of the most beautiful pictures I feel like of life of these children. And all adoption is, you know, for sure. But specifically in the foster care world, I'm like, there's something there. But what do you see the pushback for people when it comes to that specific lane when it comes to adoption?

Yeah. Well, there's stigma. And I'm just going to call that out. Yeah. They're just a stigma. And I think that's even where I feel so like encouraged to go and, you know, share with people that like, yes, there's stigma, but it's not all true. Is there a bit of truth? Sort of, right? But in that, often what I hear families as I'm talking to them, and a lot of

people similarly, I imagine Rachel, that I hear from people that go the biological route that that that kind of first trimester, you're really only talking to kind of your close friends and your significant other about anything you're thinking and feeling because you don't want to tell everyone yet. And it's similar in the adoption space where like you don't want to just tell everyone you're thinking this. And in fact, you don't want to just ask anyone questions because there's just a lot of judgment. You feel kind of weird to ask things like that, right? And so a lot of the common things, I hear things like, how do I know that I can handle emotionally connecting with a child that I'm not biologically related to, right? How do I know that I am capable of parenting?

How do I know that I'm going to be equipped for all of the things that come up? And they're really healthy, what-ifs. I mean, John Deloney, right? He talks to us about, like, fear is real and, like, get knowledge. And so that's really where I encourage families is like, yes, these are real good questions. but oftentimes the questions that can kind of paralyze us are ones that are identical questions and fears if we were to have biological children. Like you have no guarantee that any of this is going to go one way or another. And a lot of it is just being humble, asking for help, whether you're learning from experts or you're talking to someone who's already gone down this path or you're just telling a good friend.

Like, I just need a break or I just need a hug. Like advocating for yourself is really, really big in the space. And then a lot of it, too, is also addressing your own childhood wounds. when you're in a relationship, usually one person tends to be like gung-ho, and the other one's a little like, well, I sort of was on the same page with you, or I'm not exactly sure, and a lot of that is weighted, and I haven't done my own self-work where I need to process through my own wounds, so that can be a little bit of a barrier. And in fact, my husband was my first podcast guest, and he, there's a term called the reluctant spouse. So, like, I was ready when we found the paperwork

five years later. And he was kind of like, but I really love being single, like having no children. This is like, I have to give up freedom. And they're real thing. Right? It's real to recognize that like all of a sudden your life's disrupted by appointments and things that you have no idea how to predict. Yes. Because it does. It can be an intimidating process to jump in. So what is like one of the first step or two for people if this is something that they're interested in that they can kind of start going on this path? Yeah. Immediately step is check your heart. It's that simple. So for instance, there's about one third of people that pursue adoption for, whether it's international, domestic or foster care adoption, about one third of people are impacted by infertility. And it's a real good motive. But at the same time, you've really got to check your heart of, am I going to be able, okay, kind of grieving the loss of a dream I had? And can I set that aside so that I can help children that need help and not kind of project my, expectations from that space. So it's really about you going, why am I doing this? Am I willing to kind of stick it out? Because no matter which path you take, there's a lot of ups and downs. And emotionally, it's exhausting. And so it's you doing that heartwork. That's the very first place

to start. And I cover a lot of those questions in my first book, The Forgotten Adoption option, is really you kind of sitting down, whether you're single or you're in a relationship, really talking through your why and making sure that, like, you're in a healthy spot to get started. That's so good. So I know state by state, right, different. laws when it comes to foster care. So on average, how many kids enter into foster care that never do get adopted or go back to their original parents or parent? Okay. Here's the path of foster care. So just in case listeners are not as aware, children enter foster care because of abuse, neglect, trauma, or maybe there's like a loss like a death in the family. So they're put into the system

and the adults in their lives are supposed to get back on their feet and they're supposed to reunify. That's the entire goal of foster care. And that's the hope, right, for anyone. If that's, yeah, they're reconciled together. 50% of the time, the children return. 50% of the time they don't. So that's where we have children in foster care today. So of all of the children in foster care right now, 30% are adoptable, meaning they're not going back home.

There's already been a legal process to that. To put a number to that, it's 108,000 children. So roughly state by state, like I think Tennessee right now, it's a little over 1,000, where I'm at Missouri, it's roughly about the same. And so the math on it is really intriguing. It's something like if one church, one person, and from each Christian church across the country did this, we'd have no children waiting to be adopted.

Like, it's very solvable. Yes. That is one thing, our church, we do a, we do a whole Sunday one per year that is all around this specifically. And that is one thing that, you know, we talk about on the show a lot, control, which you can control, right? Because there's a lot of things in the world and in life, you guys, and you all know this, like, that you just, you can't.

But there are things that can be solvable in the world, right? And, you know, I think there's some daunting ones, like world hunger or something like that. That it's like, oh, my gosh, it just feels so. big and there's organizations that come around it that, you know, try to help with the problem. But when you put the specific numbers to this specific need, it is amazing, you know, that you can see that it is softable. And I think one thing we talk about giving a lot on this show that it needs to be a part of your financial plan overall. And that looks like money. In one case, I really do, I'm a firm believer in that. I'm like,

you need to be giving away money because I think it just helps in your heart in this entire process of learning of how to get control of your money. But you can also give your time. You can give other things. You know, in some cases, you can give your life, like in a really big way with this, or plugging in. And this is where other organizations do so well, you guys, that if, you know, fostering, if you're like, oh, my gosh, we're just not out of a position to do that right now. You know, there's organizations that we have this at our church that it's called the wrap-around ministry. And if someone goes and becomes a foster parent, everything is taking care, like people come around and take care of them. So whether it's their yard, their groceries,

their meals, getting diapers, getting strollers, getting equipment. I mean, everything is done for them to help support in that way. And so I think that is one thing to think through creatively in any part of life when it comes to giving and serving that, you know, the call, that specific thing may not look like it for your specific life, but what are ways that you can support and love the people around you? So what are other ways that people know, you know, others in their community that may be embarking on this process? What are ways that would be a beautiful way for people to come and support foster families? Yeah, and I think you hit it straight on that that community aspect is so important.

And some people, like, if you're like an organizer-starter kind of person, like, please start this at your church. There's so much rich success around the country when churches do this, right? But if you're like, well, my church isn't big enough or that's not my skill, cool, right? Are you not in a church community? Right. Things you can do are offer to run errands, offer to make a meal. Sometimes families get a little bit less likely to say, oh, you can care for the children right now. They just need your support.

Yes. And sometimes we don't have the words to tell you what we need. And so it's sort of a guessing game, right? But even just, hey, you want to go for a walk tomorrow morning. I'm going to get you a coffee while we're walking. Or, hey, we have all of these things. Would you like any of them? Or I'm going to go pick up one for myself. I'm going to get one for you two. I had a family when we were setting up our home. So we, our kids were in preschool when we met and we had less than a week to prepare for them to move in. And a friend was actually in the process of moving her home across the kind of region. And I'm talking to her and I'm still like, I don't even have any how to prepare. And she's pulling stuff out of her cabinets. And she's like, my kids are grown. Would you like a high chair? Would you like a this? And it was so incredibly helpful because I thought, well, I'll go home and think about this. And she was like, no, no, no. Like, I can help you right now. I'll just do it. Yeah. And that kind of friend to me is like so helpful because she didn't want anything for it. She just wanted, she was like, I'm going to get rid of this stuff anyway. So you can have it. I also had a neighbor who's relative worked for one of the major department stores.

And I had a list of things that you're still trying to get. So she was like, hi, I'd like to get those items for you, and we're going to get you the employee discount on those items. Oh, wow. So she ran to the store for me, so I had time to, like, tidy my home. I had a friend out of state that really wanted to, like, be there with me through all of this. And so I'm, like, cleaning up the home, late at night, like, probably 24 hours from me and my kids. And I get a text message, and she said, I don't think about price. I need you to think about the thing you don't have that you wish you would have. And it was the sweetest thing. And she said, don't even go shopping. Just tell me. And I was like, we don't have a rack for backpacks. And she goes, measure it. And that's all I want you to do. And so

she sent me like five in a text message and said pick one and she Amazon it. It was like the easiest thing. Yes. But it took off such a relief on me to be like, I didn't make kids to feel like their backpacks have a home. They were meant to be here. Yes, that's so good. So good. So that's what I think thinking out of the box and getting creative in this way. Again, if this isn't your specific story or journey, things are happening around to you guys. So be encouraged by that. So what caused you to go on this whole journey when it comes to your new book's about fostering specifically to adopt, but also just adoption in general. Yeah, well, it became an adoptive mom. My husband and I decided that adoption was going to be our plan A, which was kind of countercultural at the point. We kind of, some of the

churches we were out were like, what? We're like, no, like we know we're called to do this. And for me, I actually went to church here in Nashville, and our church had taken a group of us to serve in an orphanage in Europe. And I spent a lot of time with the older girls and became very aware of like older child needs. And a lot of these kids have been dropped off there by their families who couldn't afford to feed and like care for them. Yeah. And that was just really deep on my heart. I saw something that I was like, I'm a little too close to age.

It's not quite right now, but I really, like, I really want to help in this. And then when my husband and I were dating and it got real serious and I'm like, hey, don't know if this is a deal breaker. FYI. But this is actually, I'm like, I don't know how my body works or not. But like, this is really what's on my heart. And he was like, well, me too. And I was like, what? And his grandfather, grandpa, Siam, was a first generation.

immigrant from Serbia. And he, Sam and his two older siblings lived in St. Louis, which is where I live. And when Sam was seven, the mom and the dad died of pneumonia. This is like 1920s, like really different time with how we could treat this, right? Sure, sure. So Sam, this is interesting, his two older siblings got taken in by a family that had a farm and they could help on the farm. And Sam was left to the streets. So he grew up sleeping in the back of grocery stores. He begged for food. he has a really amazing story about like coming to faith and ends up actually using his street smarts and becoming a used car salesman did really well. Yeah. But for us it was really, we've seen this need.

We want to, my husband said, I want to adopt domestically older children. You want to do the older child, but let's do kids in the U.S. Because that's where grandpa see him like, what if? What if somebody had helped him too? And what if he and his siblings had stayed together? And Rachel, it took us five years. This sounds so silly because some people are like, he didn't know he could do this. I'm like, no, I knew you could foster.

and I knew that I could adopt a baby or adopt internationally. I didn't know I could adopt through the foster care system. And so for five years, we're trying to like sift through information. The data shows it takes people five years to think about adoption for the very first time and to actually take steps moving forward. So it kind of hit the data point, but it's a sad data point, right? Yeah, right. So we ended up going through the classes, had an incredible experience through all of the training

and learning. I went through therapy for myself because I was like, I have childhood wounds. I need to be a good mom in the space. I want to go take care of me. Totally. And what actually happened, Rachel, is our kids moved in. So we ended up, we had declared we wanted to help kids ages 7 through 11 thinking about Grandpa Sam.

And my husband did not want a big family. I really did. And so I said, well, we'll just get the two we went together. Like, that to me would be so wonderful. A big win. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I have siblings.

I would never imagine being separated. So when we were matched with their kids, they were in preschool. They were three and four. And very quickly, we became aware of, like, we didn't know anyone else doing this. And so a lot of people asked us. And there was a moment. So Rachel, we were told that my kids were supposed to take about four months with us that legally we could go like to court and like make a date and finalize the adoption. And we're nine months in. And from what I'd heard from all my girlfriends that decided to have biological children, like that's your moment. Right? Like you're

packing your bag. You're going to the hospital and you're like, I'm bringing my baby home. Yeah. And I put my kids to bed and had this like emotional breakdown on my bathroom. I'm just like crying because I'm just like, God, like nine months, like, I don't even know what's going on here. Yeah. Like, did, did I do this wrong? And it was... Because you were to, you weren't far enough in the process of the adoption ends is what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah. Like there was no end, no like definitive end. Yeah. I'm like, how much longer is this thing going to take and these kids that I'm just seeing go through so much? And I just saw this opportunity of like, there's a silver lining in this. We didn't know anyone doing it, but we could use the delay to

teach other people. So it kind of went quickly, Rachel, I went from having a blog that had a pretty decent readership, but no one would talk to me. They were just very curious, and I respect that. And then once we finalized the adoption, another nine months later, we started coaching couples in our living room. They would just come over and we'd kind of be like, hi, it's really complicated. You can do it too? And then the pandemic hit. And all of a sudden, friends moved to Michigan, and they were like, can you use Zoom? Can you teach your friends here? And then through a stimulus payment, I ended up writing down those coaching sessions into a book. And that's how I now teach. the country on how to, even though the names are a little bit different. Which is this one, right?

Actually, there's the newest one. This is the newest one. Yeah. What was your first one? The forgotten adoption option. Okay. So last little bit, I really am a believer. When you give and you serve, it changes who you are. And when you live a life of service, again, it can look, it can look all different ways, but for you, I mean, fostering, that is, that's the ultimate act. I mean, that, to me, that's like laying your life down and saying, oh, my gosh, I'm going to take in vulnerable children who need, who need a home. Like, it's just, it is, it is mind-boggling. So what is it done to you, your husband, your marriage, when you live a life of service? How has life changed?

To me, it was like we got on the bowl and we held on, right? Like, we were like, okay, let's just see what happens with this, right? But I think for us, we now feel like helping people see that there are children that are adoptable in foster care is our family's ministry. And we, like, stumbled into it. And it's the most amazing thing. My son, during the pandemic, you know, kids were at home. They weren't at school. They could write about anything.

I was coming out with my first book. And he was like, Mom, I want to do foster care and foster care adoption. And he goes online and everything online is jargony. And it's because it's a state program. It's a government program. And so his teacher was like, sweetie, it's okay. You can switch topics. And he was like, no, I have to help my peers understand who I am.

And so I think for me, the beauty of like watching my own children and others that have been impacted. And like, we're helping you see this entire population that's right around us. Yes. Right. The data shows that from all the families that have children, or across our country, one in 25, which is like a typical classroom size, one in 25 is adopted. But yet we don't really talk about it, right? Like it's not like a welcomed celebrated story. And I know there's different dynamics behind all that. But for our family, helping people see that

and appreciate it and just kind of wonder, like, I wonder what I could do in that space, right? We had some family friends that are empty nesters. Like you mentioned, like maybe you're not called to this directly. They said, Marcy, we see this family you're helping. They're getting three teenagers. Can we help in some way? Well, they need a mattresses. So they were like, we'd love to pay for that. And so there's like really beautiful ways to do things. And I'll even mention to Rachel, you were saying some different programs you're aware of. So the Dave Thomas Foundation for Adoption has something called the Adoption Friendly Workplace Toolkit.

So when my husband and I went through this process, we went to our employers and we don't have adoption benefits. We'd like adoption leave. And they were like, okay, we don't do that. And so we pulled some templates off online and they went and did this and like created some benefits for us. And anyone can do this. So like it's an easy thing. think any, the matter where you work. Is Dave Thomas the Wendy's guy?

Yeah, the Wendy's guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no. Yeah, he was adopted through foster care. Oh my gosh, I don't know if I knew that. Yes. So that's why, yeah, he's now deceased, right? So his foundation, what's beautiful is you can take their toolkit, any of us can.

And we can go to our employers and say, hi, I want to make sure that no matter how anyone becomes a parent, we have benefits. So a girlfriend in St. Louis, her company has 700 people. She was like, I'm just going to print the guy. She shows her employer. They roll it out the next enrollment season. They had two families sign up to adopt. right away. Because they simply had the support to take time off, to have some leave. And I think

currently across the country, there's at least a couple hundred companies that do this. So that's like an incredible, easy thing any of us can do. And then the second thing I want to mention is there's an organization called the Gift of Adoption Fund. And I've heard you talk about more than once that you and Winston like really want to help someone adopt one day. That's exactly what they do. They collect funds and give out grants across the country. And so you can even tell them, well, I really want to help someone like this or this is kind of the scenario. And they help match that up. And they help you make that dream possible. That's awesome.

And then on top of it, a lot, there's an interesting subset in this space that a lot of times when you're adopted through foster care, about 30% of the time, you're adopted by someone your kin to. So my grandma's helping or uncle, something like that. And you often, the biggest expense you have for foster care is renovating your home. So like my husband and I needed to hire a carpenter so that we could kind of get one of our bedrooms ready. And that can be really expensive. Sure. Gift of adoption fund also gives out grants for that. So there's like really interesting ways that people can be.

part of this. Yes. Yeah. And that's the creativity part. That's so good. It's like it's the needs you may not even be aware of from someone on the outside that's not like super plugged in like you are. But the things around that people dream up is just beautiful. It's so great. That's amazing. So, so incredible. Thank you. Marcy so much for coming. I love that you want to talk about this and show people how they can get involved. For sure. Sharing your story and all of it because, again, I think it's always so encouraging to put a face with a story. And I don't know. It's always one of those things that I'm like, we're going to survive as a country. There's some people out there that are doing amazing work, and they're not always highlighted people like you and your family.

So, yep, I'm so thankful that we got to share your story. And where can people find more out about you, what you're doing, your book? Again, this is what to know when you adopt through foster care. Great, simple title, which I love. I'm like, when I see good titles, I'm like, that's it. That's like what people want. It's like, that's a great title. But where can people find you, the book, everything?

Yeah, easiest place to go is Forgotten Adoption.com. You can find all my social handles there, Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram. And as I mentioned to you earlier, Rachel, there's, like, such an interesting, like, sort of intimacy in the space. Like, can I trust someone? Can I ask them? Anyone is welcome to reach out anytime and ask anything. I use my lunch hour.

I actually have a day job in a whole different field. This is a volunteer project, a passion project. So I use my lunch hour and time when my family is at martial arts to help coach families. So if there's something on a listener's mind that they're like, I've always wanted or I've always wondered or this is really holding me back. Just ask. Yes. I'm happy to help.

Oh, that's amazing. Thank you. Thank you. And what a great resource you guys for her and everything that she's doing. So make sure to check her out. I'll put all that stuff in the show notes as well. So make sure to click through and see what you're doing. And if you know someone who's considering adoption, make sure to share this episode with them.

And if you are someone who has been thinking about adopting, but again, the cost is such a roadblock for you. I would encourage you to check out my episode on how to double your money next. And I'll put that link in the description as well. So thanks again, Marcy for coming. And you guys remember, as always, take control of your money and create a life. you love.