The Ramsey Show - 4 Ways Money Can Make You Happier

Episode Date: August 29, 2024

📱Watch the full episode for free in the Ramsey Network app. Rachel Cruze & Dr. John Delony answer your questions and discuss: "Am I responsible for paying for this hotel charge?" "I feel lost on how to pay off my debt," "Why am I jealous of other people's income?" "We lost $80k in a crypto scam," Dr. Arthur C. Brooks on 4 ways that money can help make you happy (and 1 way it will make you miserable). Support Our Sponsors: MamaBear Legal Forms: mamabearlegalforms.com and use promo code RAMSEY to save 20% The Wellness Company: urgentcarekit.com/ramsey for 15% off medical emergency kit Zander Insurance: Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282 for a fast and easy quote today NetSuite: Free KPI checklist, visit netsuite.com/Ramsey  Next Steps 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET or click here! 🏆 Set and actually reach your goals with the NEW 2025 Ramsey Goal Planner! Hurry—They sell out every year! 💵 Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app! 🚢 The Live Like No One Else Cruise is booking fast!  💸Enter The Ramsey Cash Giveaway for a chance to win $10,000! 📚 Shop the $12 Sale to get life-changing tools to help you make real progress!  Listen to more from Ramsey Network 🎙️ The Ramsey Show   🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 💰 George Kamel 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 EntreLeadership Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my good friend and bestselling author, Dr. John Deloney, and we'll be answering your calls. And it's a free call anywhere in the country at 888-825-5225. So give us a call. We'll be talking about your life, your money, your relationships, your career, anything and everything. So first in Dallas,, Texas We have Beth and Margie On the line, hey ladies

Welcome to the show Thank you so much for having us on We're really excited to talk to you For sure, is this Beth that I'm speaking to? Yes, this is Beth Hold on, before we get to it, I like how you did that Rachel There's a comedian who says, you can just add the word Ladies on the end of any sentence

To make it weird I always say, it's the ladies You can just add the word ladies on the end of any sentence to make it weird you can just be like i always say it's the ladies i know you can just say like hey uh can i can you can i run to the to the store real quick ladies so rachel's like all right let's go out to the to the ladies well i saw two of we never get two callers i know oh my god all right so what's up beth yeah so i'm calling because I'm the avid listener. And I instantly, as soon as my sister told me about her situation, I was like, well, what would Dave do? So my sister Margie is getting married in October, and she's paying for it herself. And so she's been planning a lot of it by herself. And, um, she eventually hired a wedding planner, but, um, she first off of like secured the venue and the room block on her own in the spring before the

wedding planner came into the picture. And, um, Margie's never gotten married before. So she kind of doesn't really know how room blocks work. And so, um, she requested, um, to put 30 rooms for five nights into the room block. And when she talked to the catering manager, the catering manager told her, oh, you can just release the rooms at a certain date. You don't have to worry. And so she was not worried. And so the sales manager, a different person, sent her a contract. And it said that they were guaranteed rooms, and she signed it. And so now they're saying that she's responsible for like $35,000 because there was an attrition fee clause in it.

So only like a small percentage of the guests booked that potential 150 rooms. And so she's getting stuck with the bill. And like the wedding's already pretty tight for her. She really just can't even afford that. So I'm just wondering, what would y'all do if you were in her shoes? Has she called the hotel and asked to void the contract completely? Margie, do you want to answer? Yeah. So I basically spoke with my wedding planner. Not the wedding planner. No. Have you contacted the hotel? Because you were the one that signed the contract. Right. I did immediately send the catering manager of sales an email saying that, you know, this was way above my means. And I was told that I was going to essentially be able to let the rooms go as the date got closer.

And they said that they would they've kind of just been giving me the run around. So they've said that they'll speak with their supervisor, but at this time, they're not allowed to make any decisions. So what I did get them to do was, you know, I was saying, you know, if I'm going to be tied to these rooms, then why wouldn't I be allowed to have this room block until the day of the wedding if I'm going to be responsible for it anyway? So I did get them to extend to September 27th um so I got like a whole nother month to be able to book but that's pretty much all that they're doing at this point are you are are you in the local area here in Dallas you mean yeah do you live around the hotel no it's a destination wedding okay yeah um since you're on the hook contractually for $35,000 just my experience has been um there's so many

like I stayed in this beautiful teeny tiny boutique hotel um this past like two days ago two nights ago in a tiny little town in Pennsylvania. And as I walked in, there was a plaque outside, and it said, buy Hilton. So what I've come to find is all these hotels are owned by bigger chains that are owned by bigger chains, and some of these are publicly traded. All I have to say is nobody cares.

And if I was on the hook contractually for $35,000, I would get on a Southwest flight and I would fly to Dallas and meet with somebody face-to-face because they don't care and they're holding a piece of paper that has you contractually bound to this and I think until you look at somebody in the eye

and say, I don't think you get it. I don't have this money. This person right here told me something different. You sue me. I don't have it and we have to we have to come to an agreement here y'all can still rent these rooms you got you got two months but i i think they're going to prey on a your ignorance and signing a contract you didn't know what it meant and they're also going to prey on the fact that this is just all

hearsay all phone calls all emails back and forth. Like getting a human being in a room is a totally different proposition. Where is it? Is it in a different country? No, it's in the U.S. Okay. Yes, the U.S. It's the southeast.

Okay. Yeah, I mean, I would do that because I think the longer you extend this into September, I mean, which is next month they're losing out on revenue they're gonna have a claim against you yeah I mean well they're gonna lose out on revenue of rooms that they could have booked and made like right that that will be their argument and so it gets really it gets really hard um from a legal standpoint when you sign a contract though that that that's the part that's like oh gosh because i mean you signed it right it wasn't that um you know they forged your signature or identity theft

or you know some situation um and even though you didn't know what it meant or that someone verbally said something else like none of that really matters in the legal world what what is on paper is what is true so i almost would find the contacts that did say that to you verbally um and see if you can get something in writing from them just to help the argument that this is what you were told under those assumptions but the hard thing is is that if the contract doesn't say that doesn't matter it doesn't matter and you know no no lower level employee unless the those of the highest character would say yeah i said that right and they may have said that and it may have been true and whoever sent you the contract sent

you the one that was going to be best for them most advantageous for them and that's the one with your name on it so i i where i see people go wrong and i've been guilty of this too is coming at this like angrily it's not fair you did this i think your best play here is to plead mercy all right it's my i signed my name on something i didn't understand i'm begging you guys for mercy i don't have this money and um you'll have two months to to redo these to put these rooms back on the market. Yeah, how many rooms have you sold or has been used in the block? So basically I'm on the hook for like 150 rooms and I've sold, I believe, like 30.

Okay. Golly, that's so much. Yeah, so it's like, and then I have to make up so like where's the other guests where are the other guests staying well so um even though it's a destination like it's a destination for a lot of my relatives um but i've lived here so it's like okay well here's the other thing you could do you could just go downtown and say, party at your hotel. And you could tell the hotel people that, hey, if you're going to hold me to these rooms, you are not going to like the characters I'm going to come parading through.

Oh, my gosh. It's like a threat. You can go down and do like a punk rock show and just be like, free hotels. I mean, honestly, I would do a John Doe. Go in person and get the highest level you can and plead mercy. Because if your signature is on a contract, it's really hard to avoid that unless an actual human will do that for you. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey guys, George Campbell here. As a new dad, I see a lot of things in a new light.

The cost of diapers, the value of sleep, and how crucial it is to have a will. Because if something happens to me, I don't want my family stressing about the details. And that's why I recommend making a will with Mama Bear Legal Forms. A will gives you peace of mind knowing things will be taken care of the way you want, instead of a random probate judge deciding who gets your fine china or precious moments collection. Looking at you, Aunt Shirley. If you think you're too busy or don't have enough time, no excuses here. I completed my will in just 20 minutes with their easy online process. Plus, if something comes up, you can make changes to your will for free for up to six months until you're completely satisfied. And listen, there's a lot of online will companies out there, but what's great about Mama Bear is

that there's no membership, no subscription, no upselling. The price is the price. And if you love a good deal like me, go to MamaBearLegalForms.com right now and save 20% with promo code Ramsey. That's MamaBearLegalForms.com, promo code Ramsey. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. One of the events that we do here at Ramsey that's been so fun and very popular, sold out, is the Money in Marriage Getaway. It's my favorite thing. John and I, we host this event. We teach at it. It's a full weekend, long event, full experience as well for you and your spouse because, yeah,

life's hectic and getting time away to, you know, actually work on, talk about, be in your marriage actually and working on it is huge. So we launched this event one in October and it sold out very quickly. And so we decided to open up another weekend. So this Valentine's weekend, you guys, in 2025, we are hosting the Money and Marriage Getaway here at Ramsey Solutions. So we're going to talk about

how to communicate better, strengthen your emotional connection, get on the same page with money. We do live Q&As. We hang out with you guys. There's a few date night experiences. We just, we pack the weekend out. And so we are so excited about it. So make sure to check it out at ramsesolutions.com slash events. Tickets start at $799 a couple. And there's even a few VIP tickets left as well. So go to Ramsey solutions.com slash events for the money and marriage getaway at Valentine's day, 2025. And I think this is a double dip,

uh, ticket. You can buy this ticket for your spouse for Christmas and then it's on Valentine's weekend. So you get two for one. You don't have to get a Valentine's gift. So if you're sitting there going, man, I hate having to buy this.

You can solve all your problems with one purchase. Do it all there. So good. All right. Up next, we have Jeremy in Los Angeles. Hey, Jeremy. Welcome to the show. Jeremy's spoken.

What's up, dude? Jeremy, are you there? Jeremy. He didn't like my pearl. Yeah, how are you sorry that John was singing sorry I was singing oh it's all good thank you man thanks for taking my call I just had a I wanted your guys's opinion I didn't really know who uh but I'm a big fan of the show I'm over the road truck driver and I listen to you guys all the time so i just wanted your guys's opinion about my situation awesome yeah what's up uh so basically yeah i a couple years ago i took out a hundred grand personal loan to start a trucking business my you know my own truck so i've been i've been rolling and uh i had a cool little plan but it's

just real hard to pay everything off with the maintenance and then being on the road, stuff like that. So I pay about $8,000 a month right now to just break even, and I'm about $80,000 in the hole. So I try to do the remaining balance and chop off.

I have five loans out right now, and I've been trying to pay extra, but just with mechanics and trucking and all that maintenance and stuff i've just been ready just throwing the towel on yeah it's sinking you yeah so you bought your own truck correct and i've been running a california and texas back and that kind of just go off the market i don't know if you're familiar with the trucking market but it's terrible terrible for owner operators right now. It's real bad. Are you doing side jobs too?

Are you stuck running the same route? That's the problem. So like it takes, so to make more money, I have to just live on the road, which I didn't really know because I was a company guy for 13 years. Yeah. So I kind of go, I do, I have a little dedicated lane. I go do it and get home on the weekends,

which is brings me about three grand to 3,500 a week. So I try to do that four times and then, you know, chop, chop the debt down. But I'm here almost three years in and I just, it's going really, really slow. And I'm just like, I get just maintenance is killing me right now. And then the market is just terrible. Man. I hate that for you, brother. Yeah. Have you looked, I'm just trying to think about, cause you were, you were working for someone is what you're saying for three

years. And how long have you been on your own? Yeah. I've been on my own for three years. I've been working at a big company. Yeah. A big company for about 13 years. And I just got tired of corporate America. so I wanted to try it on my own. The problem is if I go back to company now, I can't pay my bills. Well, let me ask you this. How much is your truck worth if you sold it? Yeah, right.

So right now I owe $40,000 on my truck. It's worth about $15,000 or $20,000. Because I already hit my million miles. Oh, you did? Right. You're making $12,000 a month is what you said, right? You're bringing in $3,000 a week. $10,000 to $12,000.

Your expenses are $8,000. Is that just for the truck? $4,000 is my regular personal stuff, family stuff, and then $4,000 for the business. What's your family situation? Are they back in L.A. while you're traveling? Is that like a wife and kids and all that? Yeah, my wife stays home, takes care of my kids and my daughter,

and then I get home on the weekend. It's just stressful, man. It's a lot. Should I keep going little by little? My wife tells me to go hit the road and just stay out there. I know. Personally. No, that's not a good solution.

You said you got four or five outstanding debts. Rip them off for me. What are they? All right, number one is going to be my truck, which is $40,000. Number two is another $30,000 loan because my transmission went out. So that's $70,000, and I have a couple small credit cards. $70,000? Is that what you said?

Correct, $40,000 and $30,000, and then I have a couple small credit cards. Okay. So my plan was to make my $3,000 a week and then just pay my, you know, three weeks, pay my monthly stuff and then the extra one just try to chop it away.

But man, the extra one has been going to maintenance. Yeah, and the $30,000 was to do a, what was the $30,000 did you say?

A transmission? The $30,000, I took another little loan because my transmission went out. Okay. And it was way upside down with some debt. So that's why I got another 30. So my truck, I'm doing okay because I bought it for $75,000.

I got it down to $40,000. But like I said, I bought it in $22,000 and the market was great. So as soon as I bought it, like a year later, everything crashed. Yeah. But my fear is you're gonna get all this you're gonna take this 70 grand you owe 30 and 40 on this truck in the in the transmission i'm due to pay it off i'm due to pay off that portion like probably the end of next year if i keep going in hard i know but then you'll be up to 1.4 million miles on this truck. Yeah, 1.2, 1.3.

And you're going to be just in the same situation after Toronto take out another $100,000 loan, man. Well, if it's paid, yeah. I mean, honestly, Jeremy, if it's paid off at that point, then I would look to jump ship. You got to get out. Yeah, I mean, so how much are you making a year, Jeremy? How much are you bringing in a year?

Yeah, so I'm going to be making like almost $300 this year. Yeah. And I'm only going to take home like probably my net will probably be $80 to $100. It's crazy. Why is that? Just maintenance and there's a lot of expenses. The gross for tripping is really high, but your net is just really low. Like, for example, this week I make $8,000, and I take all about $3,800.

And you have to pay your own gas and insurance, all that, out of that money? Yeah, I spend $2,000 a week just on fuel. Yeah. I lease onto a company. Is there no different routes to take? There is other routes, but then I live on the road and in my head i go crazy yeah so what i would do jeremy honestly because you said by the time by the end of next year you got you got about you got two more you know a year and four months uh to be able to get this paid off

and you know and i would say you know when we talk to people on this show and we're like you you got to do everything you got to get side jobs you're gonna be working nights you're gonna be working weekends I mean there is an all-in approach and the pro is your all-in approach to make great money is something you know and you have a vested interest in uh because of this asset um so I mean I would map out with your wife and say okay I can't survive a year and four months with this schedule. I can't. I'm going to implode. So what is a realistic schedule? And that may push the debt out another maybe four or five months for your sanity purposes. But I would sit down and I would do a really detailed schedule to say, okay, this is the week. Here's the month I'm traveling. I'm going to take this week off

here. I'm going to travel these three. Map out what seems realistic because you're able to bring in good money and I get that it's being sucked down because of the truck, but I think you can pay this off. When you look at what you're actually bringing in, and I would tell your wife, we've got to be on a tight budget at home. Is she working?

She does not. I had her quit to stay home with my daughter. Bro, you've got to stop. It's going gonna cost you your marriage and your relationship with your kid She's gotta get a job too In this season That would accelerate all of this so fast And then once all this has paid off Then you guys reevaluate what you want to do with your life

And you may just get rid of the truck And make five grand on it And go start something else that gives you your life back Dude you got the ring and you went for it And you got knocked down That's alright But you can't keep throwing the same punches right now. Thanks, Jeremy. This is The Ramsey Show. You know my philosophy on planning and preparing. Being proactive is always better than being

reactive. We have a provider we recommend that can help you stay prepared for unexpected medical situations. I have a medical emergency kit from the doctors at the Wellness Company. And guys, let me tell you, you really should check this out. This is not a simple first aid kit. The medical emergency kit contains doctor-prescribed medicines to treat over 30 common and serious medical conditions. Ivermectin, the life-saving medicine. Generic Z-Pak to shorten the duration of colds and flu you feel coming on. Amoxicillin for infections, earaches, strep throat, and pneumonia.

A medical emergency kit from the Wellness Company. It's like having an urgent care in your home order 100 online in minutes then fill out the brief questionnaire in your email and your kit ships to your door visit urgentcarekit.com slash ramsey and use the promo code ramsey for 15 off that's promo code ramsey at urgent care kit.com slash ramsey welcome back to the ramsey show i'm rachel cruz hosting this hour with dr john deloney taking your calls at 888-825-5225 up next we have terry in little rock arkansas hey terry welcome to the show hey how you guys doing today? We're doing great. How can we help? I'm doing pretty well. First of all, I'd like to say I'm a huge fan of the show.

You guys have motivated me. I got on to you guys maybe about three or four years ago. Awesome. Well, thanks. Thanks for listening. Yeah, I've been following the baby steps and everything. So I paid. So my question is, I owe $10,000 on my car, and I have two credit cards left. One balance of $7,000 and one of six. And I have a tax bill I got to pay. That's like five. And I have $ tax bill I got to pay that's like five okay so I'm trying and I have fourteen

thousand dollars in savings so I'm trying to decide on I think I want to wipe my savings out but I'm trying to see which direction I should go which should I pay my car first just to get that out the way because that'll free up like about 550 bucks a month, or should I just go ahead and wipe the two remaining credit cards out? Yeah, well, what we teach is paying off the smallest debt first, regardless of payments or interest. And what we have found, it is the most effective way.

But first and foremost, let me just say before we get into that, that if you owe the IRS, that's the very first tax, even if it's not the lowest, in your case it is. But very first tax even if it's not the lowest in your case it is but for people listening if it's not the lowest it's still the number one priority is you do not want to owe the irs so i would be yeah i would be paying that off first and foremost for sure um okay yep and that leaves you yeah with nine you want a thousand dollar emergency fund so you'll

have eight left so i would knock out that first credit card, the $6,000 credit card, bring your $7,000 credit card down to six, and then start chipping that away, and then your car. Okay, okay. That's what I was trying to decide. And I knew I wanted, I was like, because I was so strange, I got to looking over my credit report, and I got to seeing a lot of these. Because, I mean, I've been well-intentioned on paying.

I paid out five cars with some of you guys. Oh, my gosh. Five cars? What makes you have five cars? No, no, cars. Cars. Oh, I thought you said cars. I was like, Terry, let's sell some of these cars.

We don't have to pay them off. No, no. Heck no, heck no. I don't like the one that's sell some of these cars. We don't have to pay them off. No, no. Heck no. Heck no. I don't like the one that I have. Oh, man. That's so great, Terry. Can I just tell you, can we celebrate you for a second?

Sure. That's incredible. It is amazing. What's the dollar amount on those five cards? One of them was $6,000. One of them was $2,000. One of them was $2,000. One was $500. One was $4,000.

And one was $3,000. Man. And one was $1,200, I believe. Amazing. Gosh. So, Terry, were you just, for just those of you, everyone listening and watching, I'm just curious, context of your life. Was it kind of just like, yeah, I'm going to just swipe cards here or there, and I'm just living my life, and you did that for years and years, and then you looked up one day and thought, I don't want to keep doing this. I got, well, what happened was I got hooked on the balance transfer hamster wheel.

Oh, okay. You know, once the 18 months runs out well i just opened up another one just trying you know that which was totally foolish you were going to be the one guy that beat the system huh yeah yeah and i found out the hard way especially when uh when the pandemic hit hitting things had kind of slowed up. And then when you look at those payments and, you know, once that zero balance wears off and you get one card that says $187 for the payment, and then you make that payment and $150 goes towards the interest

and $20 goes towards the principal. So I just, you know, listening to you guys i was like you know this this is this has got to see and i you know what's funny is since i paid those amounts i'm starting to see uh a little bit more money in my pocket yes yeah true and hey that's what you're feeling you're a perfect example terry of why we teach it the way we teach it. Because we get a lot of grief on the internets because somebody has a 3.0% mortgage. And they can put it in a high-yield savings account and make 5%. So they make 2%.

And they call us stupid because we tell you to pay your house off. And you are getting the psychology part, which I believe in many cases is more important than math, which is you've had five wins and you're starting to come alive. Like now it's starting to be like, I'm done with all this. You see what I'm saying? Like if you had started with a car, you may have got halfway through it and said, forget it, man.

I've been paying on this thing for five months and whatever. But you got the little one and then, forget it, man. I've been paying on this thing for five months and whatever. I'm not saying progress. But you got the little one and then another little one and then another little one. And now you're fully in it, man. How much do you make a year? Well, I got a couple of side hustles. So total about $107,000. That's including my main job and my side hustles I got going on.

So when you knock this out, you're going to, like by today, you're going to be done with the government. that's including my main job and my side hustles I got going on. So when you knock this out, you're going to, like by today, you're going to be done with the government. We don't ever want to owe the government money because they don't act right. And then you're going to be done with the $6,000 credit card. You're going to have $1,000, and that's going to make you nervous, but that nervous is good. And then you're going to owe $7,000 plus $10,000. So you got $17,000.

How silly do you want to get uh how silly do i want i mean i want this i want this stuff gone like january one silly yeah i just i would like i would love before it to be gone by january okay i want you to do this i want you to pay those things off today and then i want you to sit down with the calculator and ask yourself what must be true between now, the end of August, and January 1. What would I have to do for these last few months to knock out $17,000? Definitely.

Can I give you guys kudos on something else too for sure uh you guys actually talked me out of doing a cash out refi no i'm so glad we talked him out of it good no i'm saying don't even think about it good good yeah you got till i i'll tell i'll find out the stipulations on it i was like because i mean i got my mortgage, my answer rate is at pretty much 4.2 right now. So, and I got to thinking about it. I was like, well, I contacted my mortgage company, and they got to talk to me about this cash out refi cash. So you can do that to pay out debt. And I found out exactly what it was.

And I think I listened to you guys talk about HELI. And I was like, I'm not going to do that because that will change my interest rate and my payment will go up higher. What's interesting, Terry, it's the same philosophy of what you were doing, card hopping, basically, right? You run out, move that balance. It's basically the same. You're taking equity out of something else just to

move the debt around and you're realizing it's not working. Well, Terry, you're amazing. So awesome. I mean of you, dude. I mean, for real. And I think that this goes to show, which I appreciate you sharing more of your story and where you were at,

because, I mean, that's normal. I mean, this is what we talk about all the time on this show, and this is what we see. And until you make the decision, I'm going to try something different, like Terry did. You're not going to get a different result.

And he's, I mean, he paid off five cards, not cars. I'm glad they weren't cars. He'll have two more done today. Yeah, he'll have, yeah. One more card in the government. For sure, yeah. And part of that last credit card. So absolutely incredible.

Okay, I want to get to another call, but I just need to say this. Everybody think through this. These credit card companies would not all work together to allow you to go 18 months, quote unquote, interest-free or whatever, and just open another one. They wouldn't allow that merry-go-round like he was talking about. If they didn't all know, they win in the end. That's right very there is a mother-in-law out there who's got a spreadsheet who plays this game kind of like uh bunco and she's doing it

she's winning fine it's not you the same as the guys who like to day trade they love you guys because they'll take your money and it's just knowing like i can't i'm like i can't beat these multi multi multi-billion dollar companies they've got better computers than me they got better psychologists working for them at the end of the day they're gonna win yep so i'm just gonna play this thing straight up and i'm not gonna i'm not gonna play their game at all i'm gonna opt out right yes it's just look in the mirror like terry did and saying all right you got me yeah you got me yeah i'm gonna do something different now yeah i it. It's kind of that play with things. You're going to get bit philosophy to a degree.

Because people are like, well, you could pay your credit card off every month. You know, the credit card game even. They will win. But yeah, to your point, I'm like, they're smarter, you guys. They're richer. So get out. It's like me and Instagram. They're better than me.

I have to have it on a different phone because they're better than me. They just are. This is The Ramsey Show. I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable. Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible.

People that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. When you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills in the middle of next week, in the middle of all that grief, like it's just, it is, it's terrible. And so life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And it doesn't cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much.

You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You've got to say it out loud, and you've got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of a stinking pizza. To get a free quote, call 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282 or go to zander.com. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show.

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All right, today's question comes from Justin in Virginia. Justin writes, how can I stop being jealous of how much my siblings and in-laws earn? My wife and I have no debt and a really good household income. We're happy in our careers. We're not missing out on anything due to how much we earn. I just can't figure out

how to not be so triggered and frustrated by other people's income. Wow. It's a very self-aware question. Very interesting, yes. What do you think, Rachel? Gosh. And I'm curious how he,

I wonder if he knows the actual number of the income or if he is making up a story in his head that they're making a ton because of how they're living. Gotcha. Because lifestyle and income are obviously two different things. So I'd be curious on that. What's causing you to think that they're earning more? Is it because of how they live their life? And kind of the sucky part is when you live your life responsibly for a season, it's not going to look flashy. Eventually you'll start to build wealth and you can enjoy it but there is kind of that

season of of grounding which is where you guys are um but if you know the number and you're like oh no they make half a million or whatever crazy a year um i mean i i have learned john when moments like that come up for me and it's not income income necessarily, it could be, but I don't hear people's income a lot, but a situation that they're experiencing something that I want to experience. As much as I can muster up just celebrating them, it's amazing how that fades quickly where the eyes are off of me. My eyes are off of me. And you can just be excited for somebody, right? Genuinely. And it doesn't always come easy, I don't think, but when you can just be happy for them

and hopefully maybe they're in a great career that's helping other people or something. I don't know that you can find like the silver lining in what they're doing and being excited. But the fact that you're being triggered constantly, I'm wondering, you know, your level of contentment is obviously not fully baked, right? Yeah, I have found that I always want to pull the string

that's attached to that story. And somewhere in Justin's heart and mind, the dollar amount that you earn every year is attached to value, to how much you're worth. Yep, yep. And somebody told you that somewhere, and I found it helpful to get to the, like, where did that story come from?

Oh, dad used to tell older brother how great he was because he made $6 an hour. I only made $5, like whatever that story is. But the other thing is, I think you're right. I think Justin would be pretty cool to out of the blue, write your siblings a letter and just say, I see, you know, I'm so proud of you. I see how hard you're working and I see what an amazing.

And instead of, when you feel that jealousy, our tendency is to pull away. Instead of go towards that person to celebrate them. And our bodies have a way of adjusting for that proximity. Like we're in support and it just over time realizes i don't have we're not in competition i don't have to fight you i have a great life one other quick thing often when you are creating a life um i'll say it like this that is less alive when you are in a we go to work we make this much money we have this couch we have We have this house. We have this car.

We were supposed to be happy here. It's easy to put your eyes up and start looking for what other people have that you don't. And it often, over the course of my life, when I found myself jealous in certain places, it has often brought me and my wife back to the table to say, what life are we creating for ourselves and where do we find excitement and aliveness and adventure and um joy in our home because it's not it i'm starting to look for other places yes right yeah and it almost always comes back to we've become co-managers of our house such a great that's a good point and so the stagnant like being stagnant yeah in life and i think we've gone through season of that of that yeah you look up and you're like oh my gosh we've just been doing the same thing and there's not as much laughter

or joy or levity right that's right that's right but when you say no we're putting the phones away we're doing family game night and we're gonna do this stupid game that's so silly but everyone ends up laughing right you just do these things um and they don't have to be expensive i mean gosh it was last break before the summer though i think it was spring and we took all the kids we went to a local high school like um parking lot randomly with bikes and they still talk about it like do you remember we were bikes in a parking lot and i was like you ride bikes all the time but it was like this like i don't know it was so like it was so small and insignificant but to them right it brought this like other magic of like this new place or whatever

it was for them but it's those things and again it doesn't have to cost money you don't have to go travel to europe to do that like find find it in your home um because gosh we need it all of us right especially this time of year election season everything we're just like oh my gosh give me some levity and enjoyment with with the people that you love but it's recognizing levity and joy for 99 of us is a choice yeah there are people in abusive situations yes there are people who are deep poverty yes there are people who are abjectly on the margins yes but for most of us we go home and we look at our spouse and we choose what happens next we choose how we respond we choose our frustration we choose to not pick up the trash not put our clothes away.

We choose to just watch TV, just sit there on our phones. All of those are choices. And that means we can choose something different. Yep. And so Justin, I challenge you to sit down with your wife and y'all reimagine your life.

And you might end up in the exact same space, but the exercise of re-imagining it, what adventures do we want to create inside of our own home even for no money what does that look like totally it can rearrange everything and write your siblings a letter a handwritten letter tell them how freaking proud of them you are it's so cool it's gonna swallow some pride to do that right when you're when you're in a state of or it opens your heart up and you realize but it's it that takes a okay i'm gonna i'm gonna celebrate something that is not always fun for me right but you start to learn it so good

all right up next we have dan in eugene oregon hey dan welcome to the show hi rachel hi john how are you we're doing great how are you i'm i, I had a rough number of years, I guess. Um, my, my question, my question for you is how do I calculate when I can feasibly retire and, or when I can start to plan a second career? And the, the rough years is, um, I'm about three years into being a widow, widower. Oh, I'm sorry. Thank you. I have three kids. Two of them will go to college.

I owe $380,000 on my house. And I sort of, as I was sort of looking at as, I don't know, I guess getting our lives back in order over the last number of years, they were one of the Ramsey quotes of why don't they teach this stuff in school is of like, you know, how do you even calculate what, what is the right trajectory. And now that I'm doing it for alone, one and two is for myself. It's a alone, I guess I should say, or as a single person. Sure. Yep. How old are you, Dan? I'm 48. 48. Okay. Hey, Dan, before Rachel's going to walk you through the numbers of it, can I challenge you on something? Yeah. And this might be a harder exercise than the math problem. Sure. But I would love for you to spend some time.

And unfortunately, I don't know that you can do this with anybody other than just taking Dan out on a retreat. But I would love for you to figure out or ask yourself, what do you want it to feel like when you walk in your front door at the age of 55? Because I want you to ask yourself, what kind of life do you want to have at 55? Because that's going to determine the math problem. Yeah. Because I think when you get to the numbers really quick, Dan, we only have about 40 seconds, so I'm sorry for the short call. It's going to be looking at what do you have in retirement now? And then averaging out,

you know, average returns 10 to 12%, whatever that looks like. And knowing your lifestyle, to John's point, how much is it going to take to run your household at retirement? And what is it going to look like to be able to, you know, you have to calculate inflation and all of that. Now, if you have not sat down with a SmartVestor Pro, I would do that. You can go to RamseySolutions.com and find one in your area because I want to be able to see all of your numbers, everything that you have in retirement, including this house, and what's going to be the best bet to get you in a place. But again, it's lifestyle. It's return on the market and inflation that goes up every year is kind of the determining factor. So thanks for the call.

Thanks to everyone in the booth. John, thanks for a great hour. This is The Ramsey Show. Do you ever feel like you're finally making progress towards your goals only to get quickly distracted by something else in your feed? Well, that's why we created the Ramsey Network app, your single source for content that keeps you motivated. The Ramsey Network app is designed to keep you laser focused

on reaching your goals. Loaded with over 7,000 hours of Ramsey shows, this free app is the best place for uninterrupted content and no distractions. Plus, you can search specific questions to get more personalized content in seconds. So for the days you need some extra motivation, you'll have proven advice at your fingertips. It's time to get serious about your goals and shut out the distractions for good. Simply search Ramsey Network in the App Store or Google Play. If you're listening on a podcast, just click the link in the show notes to download our free Ramsey Network app today. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz,

hosting this hour with my good friend and best-selling author, excuse me, Dr. John Deloney. Hey, puberty gets us all eventually, Rachel. I needed some water. Hey, can we talk about what we were just talking about? Are we allowed to? Well, let's just say that you can call us at

888-825-5225 and we'll take your calls on life, money, and all of it. Go. What were we talking about? That we're all going to be okay. That's what we were talking about. Yeah, James, I don't want to get you canceled. No, we're not going to cancel anybody. That's what we're talking about. Yeah, James, I don't want to get you canceled.

No, we're not going to cancel anybody. Here's the thing. There's just a lot of drama in our world today, and we just want everyone to take a deep breath and say we're all going to be okay. We are all going to be okay. Yeah. Yeah, we were just talking off air.

Like there's this, no matter where you go. I know James, he's got his hand on the dump button. There's this idea that if either one of these candidates it's the end of the world either way and I guess call me crazy I just

you and I travel a lot we're all over the place I was just in rural Pennsylvania and then I spent the evening in Pittsburgh I just have more faith in the American people I just have faith in people showing up for each other because I keep seeing it over and over and over and over again. And I see it. I have the, not the fortune, the good fortune, but the honor of sitting with people when loved ones die, when the wildest things happen. And the number of people who show up and they show up from work and they

show up from church and they show up from neighborhoods and they show up all over the place and i again maybe i'm crazy i i just don't believe that a single person is going to take the whole thing down i believe in the american people i just do and if you're a person of faith you know how this whole thing ends and so you should be the least worried about the drama and it just it's just i i don't know i came back um with a totally it was it was i'm glad i went away i got on airplane at 4 a.m this morning um i got up at 4 a.m and i caught an early flight to get back i'm glad i was out because it was just one of those reminders that people are good and they show up for each other and there's idiots everywhere and there's bad people.

I know that. I'm not naive. Yeah, it's the small percentages on anything in life that get the loudest voice. And we just want all of you to know there's just good people in America and we're all going to be okay. Take care of your household. Take care of your household. We're all going to be okay.

We are. Take care of your household. Okay. Up next, we're going to Ontario, Canada with, oh gosh, I don't want to mispronounce. Shaquib, what's up? Shaquib, I don't want to mispronounce your name. Rachel's not good at reading either, brother. What's up, dude?

Hey, how are you guys doing? We're doing great. Welcome to the show. How can we help? So what happened is me and my wife got involved in investing online into crypto. Oh no, how much did you lose? We made money. got involved in investing online into crypto. Oh, no. How much did you lose? Money. Personally, we lost around 80K.

Like, we lost about 50 some odd dollars in debt. My wife did a number of about 58,000 in debt. My dad helped me. My father-in-law helped me to sell my car. What happened is when it came time to withdraw the Ethereum, these people started saying, oh, you know, you have to pay these fees. It's a first-time withdrawal. I was like, okay, I'll pay fees.

Paid it, and then it was another story. Paid that, and then what ended up happening is that when i was close to getting my withdrawal they sent me some email from the irs and i was like okay and i looked at the email and it came from an irs gmail account and i was like all right that's obviously messed up so i contacted the real irs ir IRS said that you know this is a scam. The whole thing was a scam. Yeah. I'm so sorry. Oh

man. So when you're 80k in the hole if you put 80k, did you borrow $80,000 from various places to put towards crypto and now you have to pay that back? Where's this $80,000 from various places to put towards crypto and now you have to pay that back? Where's this $80,000 lost? So my dad gave me about $20,000. My father-in-law gave me about $10,000. My wife took out $25,000 on her line of credit. She took out $5,000 on her credit card. She got

a $6,000 loan. I took $14,000 from a Money Mart loan loan which ended up being a payday thing but i didn't care because when i i was thinking about my crypto i was like okay when i get my crypto i'll pay that back and then i took a 5k loan on my credit card so oh man so you've got a lot of you've got some credit cards and some personal loans to pay back but you also have a lot of, you've got some credit cards and some personal loans to pay back, but you also have a lot of shame, right? Like you got to look your father and your father on the eye and say, I lost your money and I'm sorry. Yeah. I mean, my dad was honestly awesome.

He, like when I told him about it, like I told him like, you know, this is what happened. And he told me, he's like, honestly, don't worry. These things happen in life. He's like, I'm still here. He's like, I'm still going to help you life he's like i'm still here he's like i'm still gonna help you it's a good man but it's it's kind um how much how much do you and your wife make a year i'm about 60 and my wife is about the same okay is that before tax that's before tax okay and ontario takes about 85 yeah what do you bring yeah what do you bring home a year like a month what hits you what hits your account a month a month I bring a little

under four um my wife right now she's on maternity leave but she's going back to work now because of the situation yeah and she'll probably be bringing in around if it's like a good month maybe around like 36 37 okay okay so it'll be yeah around 7 000 um yeah i mean i wish i could wave a wand in this you can go back in time and do things differently and you know what we we call around here when we make mistakes that cost us money you know a lot of money a small amount of money but just when we do stupid things we call it stupid tax and I hate to say it but I'm like you got a big you got a big stupid tax bill and I think you kind of just you you have to you know understand like oh my gosh you know you obviously do that what we did was was stupid

but then you want to start cleaning up this mess and so um do you guys have any other debt or is it just the crypto so we have my wife has a car loan so i think there's about like 22k left on that okay and then i have my student loans it's a little over eight thousand okay okay how much could she could she sell the car for have you kelly blue booked it how much did i sell my car for how much is hers worth oh hers hers might be worth maybe 28 oh no that's if i did oh shoot you're breaking up okay well well let me say this uh if we get you back or not but um i would be selling the car today i think twenty two thousand dollars in the middle of all this mess i mean that puts you over a hundred grand

in debt completely so that car it's done and if you have to take a small loan for the difference i couldn't tell what you're saying i thought he said it was 28 which means that means he clears six so then so then go buy then go buy a used car. And then I would start working this snowball effect, the smallest debt first. And I would throw your $8,000 and your student loans in there as well. I mean, I would make a full list.

And I think, you know, I don't know. There's kind of a silver lining. The fact that some of these are just kind of ankle biters, $5,000 here, $5,000, $6,000. We talked to a guy last hour who had a bunch of credit card debt, same kind of idea, not because of crypto, but he was able to knock it out. And I think that that motivation is going to help you guys knock off these small ones and keep that ball rolling. And then I would have a conversation with your father, which you did, and father-in-law and just give them a timeline of, hey, here's where

I think I'm going to pay it back. But out of dignity, even if your dad forgives it, there's a part of me that I would pay him back. And I would say, I took this money and messed up and, you know. And I think that was dad or father-in-law investors or did you borrow money from them? And I think that might be two different answers there. That's true. That's true. Okay. okay this is the ramsey show what does the future hold for business ask nine experts and you'll get 10 different answers economic growth or a recession business taxes will go up or down ai will help us work or it will replace us all but there's no such thing as a crystal ball. That's why more than 40,000 businesses have future-proofed themselves with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud enterprise resource planning system. Ramsey Solutions uses NetSuite, and you should too.

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It's free at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. It's free at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. Hey, it's Dr. John Deloney. Look, when you're stressed about money, it makes everything feel out of control. You run around like a maniac trying to make sure everything's covered, everybody's okay. I've been there.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I am here with Dr. John Deloney, and we have a special guest in the studio with us this segment hey it's one of my heroes one of the here one of my heroes do you hear that uh-huh this is this is this is making my my year john it is dr arthur brooks professor of practice of public and non-profit leadership at the harvard kennedy school i used to think I was smart. And then you spend 30 seconds with Dr. Brooks and you're like, nah. You're playing smart, John. Hey, but listen, you wrote what I think is, if I was to take 10 books of the last 25 years, you wrote this masterpiece from strength to strength. And you recently wrote a new book

with Oprah Winfrey, which is not a bad co-author. Not bad. Called Build the Life You Want. Just an amazing voice out in the world. You do something very unique. You teach happiness. Yeah. Science of happiness. The science of happiness, which is God help us, we need it. Yeah.

Right? Yeah. The world, I mean, it's, you look at the data on the, you know, what's been going on in the United States and around the world, we've been taken down in happiness since about 1990, as a matter of fact. Just free falling. It's, you know, I dedicated in happiness since about 1990, as a matter of fact. It's free falling. It's, you know, I dedicated my, the rest of my life to lifting people up and bringing them together in bonds of happiness and love using science as a scientist, because that's

what the world needs most. Okay. So I want to know from that scientific perspective, because you can have the motivational quotes, you can have the gratitude journal, like write all this stuff. But for real, in science, what are you, what have you what have you found yeah because everything you've written about but like what are some of the things that you're you see that's just mind-blowing because it has to be where you actually see science and emotion all come together yeah no it's it's an incredible field my mind is getting blown continuously i write a column every thursday in the atlantic

about the science of happiness and i've done 204 columns and i'm just getting started still There is so much about it. There's so much to write about it. But when I have, you know, if I get an elevator ride with somebody, they're like, what's the secret? I better have something to say. Here it is. The habits of the happiest people come down to four things, faith, family, friends, and work serving others. And this is not influencer mumbo jumbo. You're a Harvard scientist, right? This is based on, this is my behavioral science background the last 30 years since I got my PhD. Say it again. Faith, family, friendship, and meaningful work, which means that you're serving others.

Okay. That's what it is. So walk through some of those real quick. So faith, what does that mean? People of faith, is it because there is something higher than them or something bigger than them? It's not just about them on this earth, right? And I'm not saying my faith. I'm a Christian. It's literally the most important thing in my life. But I will say as a scientist, I won't say who's right, but I will say as a scientist, what you need from faith is something transcended to you. What that means is Mother Nature will put you in the psychodrama of your life where you're the star and it's awful because

Mother Nature doesn't care if you're happy. She wants you to focus on me me me me me all day long you need to get little and make the universe big now and faith is the single best way to do it and the more you focus on it and practice it every day it doesn't feel natural at first but i'm telling you it's the game changer so good that's number one the higher higher power. Number one. Number two is family. And people define it differently in different ways. And John and I know the neurobiology of how oxytocin links you with your kin because we're a bunch of nerds. But it really comes down to this. If you're walking away from your family or you're letting anything besides abuse put a schism in your family, you're ruining your happiness and theirs too. People, one in six Americans is not talking to a family member today because of politics it's insanity so we're letting all these things

completely drive a wedge we're letting into one of the four pillars of our happiness for sure politicians want us to do that the media wants us to do that wow look when you're walking away from your family somebody's profiting and it's not you that's the bottom line and no matter how much you think you're winning it's coming at at a cost. You're losing. You're losing. You're losing because it's a bad proposition. You're basically, it's the stuff that you guys talk about, but in the ledger of happiness, what it comes down to, bad investment. Third is friendship. Now, we're at the lowest point in friendship that we've seen since we've been keeping records. Loneliness is higher than it's ever been in the United States, but we're around people all the time.

What's the deal? And the answer is that we're mediating our relationships with electronics. This is a problem. Social media relationships are not real relationships. Now, a lot of people, I deal with a lot of people who are really, really successful, and they say, I'm so lonely even though I'm with people all day long. And I say, well, that's a problem. You don't have any real friends.

You just have deal friends. And everybody knows the difference between real and deal. But with young people, it's real and virtual. So social media won't get it done. It just won't. If it's going through a screen, you're not going to get the brain chemistry that you need. And if you want to know whether or not you've got enough of this going on,

if you're finding that you're feeling lonely despite having a lot of conversations with people, then you're doing the conversations wrong. I was going to say, because the content of the friendship is what's key there, right? The vulnerability, the honesty, being known at a deep level.

And also the contact, the method of contact, eye contact and touch. Of that too. So the in-person. Yeah. Okay. So tell me this. I'm going to.

Yeah. And there's work. I'm going to tell on myself. I i'm gonna tell on myself i'm gonna tell on myself real quick because i'm curious what you think about this but so marco polo is an app it's a video app and so there's me and three girlfriends and we keep up i mean almost every day like when i come home from work they'll kind of chime in because we're all over right uh we're not all in the same city can we have that same connection if our conversations are good and we're knowing what's going on

and we're checking in and asking questions and all of it? I mean, I know it's not as fruitful as like a back-to-back in person. But yeah, go ahead. Tell me about that. Yeah, I'll say. I'm being selfish for a second. Here's what's going on in your brain.

Okay. So you have a neuropeptide, a hormone in your brain that's intensely pleasurable called oxytocin. The biggest amount that you get is when you lay eyes on your newborn infant. And it's like the 4th of July inside your head. Totally, yeah. Now, we have this because we're supposed to be linked to our people and they're supposed to be linked to us. So when you're lonely, you won't be able to sleep. It's like things are messed up. You feel out of sorts. You're feeling restless all the time. The reason is because you have a deficit of oxytocin.

And the monkey's on your back. It's like you're an addict and can't get what you want is the way that that works. Okay, so all of these mediated ways to deal with people. Look, we have a Pleistocene brain. We have caveman brain. I mean, we have not evolved our brains over 250,000 years. We're made to be connected to our kin

because we're built, we're a kin-based hierarchical tropical species. That's what homo sapiens is right now. There are all sorts of ways that we can change that, like invent coats, so we don't have to live in tropical places. We're still kin-based. So interesting. And we link to each other neurobiologically through this hormone. So in-person eye contact and touch, that's best. Below that is anything that gets you closer to that particular experience. Zoom is terrible. Zoom is terrible.

Zoom is the Twinkies, right? Zoom is like getting, well, actually the worst is social media because they're not even there. So Zoom is like getting all of your meals through fast food. It's the junk food of social life. You'll become obese and malnourished simultaneously okay so can i ask one question yeah this has been haunting me and you and i were talking about this earlier there is data on the psychology of debt yes wait dave has been talking about this for 30 years the borrowed slave bill lender that's from scripture but there. But there is now, there's data that suggests.

We got it. We know how money and happiness are related. Okay, we got like a minute. Talk to us. Grandma says that money doesn't bring happiness. She's right. But money at low levels can eliminate sources of unhappiness unless you spend the money wrong.

There's five ways to spend your money. Buy stuff, buy experiences with the people you love, buy time and spend it with the people that you love, give it away and save it. It turns out the one thing that your neurobiology wants you to do, which is go buy stuff, is the one thing that doesn't buy happiness. Wow.

The other four will. Now, it depends on where you are. If you're actually at the bottom and you're trying to make your way, the best way that you can actually bring happiness to your life is save your money because you're making progress. There's a ton of psychology behind this. And by the way, going into debt, especially for consumer things,

will reliably make you miserable. That's not just Dave having fun and being angry. This is happiness science, my friends. Oh, yeah, it's changed my life, and it's helped me to give better advice to people at all different stations in life and different economic circumstances. Because I can say this to people. I can say, look, I got the data on this.

And by the way, if you're really, really rich, God bless you. That's wonderful. I'm so happy for you under the circumstances. But that means you have to still spend your money the right way. Getting a fifth Ferrari is not the right thing to do. Experiences with people you love.

Philanthropy. These are the ways for you to buy your happiness. Don't buy like crap. You're not going to be on your deathbed saying, I wish I'd bought more crap. That's right. But you're going to say, I wish I'd taken a fishing trip with my buddies. I wish I had actually spent more time with the people that I love. And I wish I'd supported the causes about which I'm passionate.

So good. Oh, my gosh. One of my absolute heroes, Dr. Arthur Brooks. Yeah, so you guys, check out his book, Build the Life You Want. Thank you so much. Thank you. I wish we had, like, the whole hour with you. We'll do it again.

Thank you. Thank you so much. Thanks. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, folks, there's a lot of half-baked investing advice out there, but here's what you can do to get more confident about this stuff. Check out the SmartVestor program. SmartVestor connects you with local financial advisors who have the heart of a teacher.

They'll help you level up your knowledge and build a retirement plan based on your goals, not theirs. Go to RamseySolutions.com slash smartvester to get connected and get more confident about your plan. That's ramseysolutions.com slash smartvester. Ramsey Solutions is a paid non-client promoter of participating pros. Learn more at ramseysolutions.com slash smartvester. We do the Ramsey Show live every day from 1 to 4 Central Time right outside of Nashville, Tennessee in Franklin, Tennessee at our headquarters. And we have a studio on the glass and an area for people to come and watch. So we have some audience that comes and hangs out with

us and gets coffee and tea and cookies and all the things for free. And also in the lobby, we have our debt-free stage. And right now, Francisco and Brasheeth are standing on it for good reason. Welcome, you guys. Thank you. All right, so you're debt-free. Yes, we are. Incredible. Okay, where are you guys from?

North of Austin at Fort Hood. Okay. Yeah, I got family there in Temple. Oh, nice. Yeah, right there. It's a beautiful part of the country, man. Yes, it is. Amazing.

Okay, how much have you guys paid off? $105,000. Whoa! And how long did that take you? 13 months. 13 months. Making what kind of money? So we started out with $84,000,

and then by the end of it, we were at $96,000. Oh, my gosh. Incredible. Incredible. Did y'all sell some stuff? Oh,000. Oh my gosh. Incredible. Incredible. Did y'all sell some stuff? Oh yeah. She sold almost like half the house. The kids were definitely next.

She's like, they're all, it's all going. It's all going. It's all going. Okay, you guys. So what was the 105,000? So it was 19 credit cards, two car loans, and then two personal loans. Oh, man. Yeah.

19. 19. If there was a credit card for Starbucks, I would have it. Yeah. So were you the spender or are you the spender? I am the spender. Yeah. Yes.

Yeah. Well, she can't take most of the credit. I would also go to the little shop at On and like buy an energy drink or a slice of pizza just about every day. Swipe, swipe, swipe, swipe. Just go and enjoy it. Okay. So what happened 13 months ago that, that created this shift, this change to get out of $105,000 of debt? So I'd like to start off by saying that I'm, um, I did 12 years in the service so I was I'm medically retired 100% disabled and he's still serving um and with two paychecks we were still not having any money at all um and then with four kids the we we would have like 17 left each paycheck yeah um and it was kind of like it was kind of getting out of hand you know

we couldn't buy our cat food we couldn't we could buy stuff but with credit cards or uh after pay yeah so um we kind of kind of got upset you know like what are we doing well the the the straw that broke the camel's back was i wanted a little Japanese K truck. And she was like, how are we going to pay for it? I was like, we could just take out another loan. We're good with our payments. What's another $100, right? Yeah.

And that's what broke the camel's back. And then my sister-in-law actually did Dave Ramsey in 2016. And she was supposed to come over to our house and have a relaxing weekend. But we were like, we need help with this. Oh, you know she's always like talked about it and we always talked about money you know we were we're very open but we were just not ready because everything was fine we were making our payments you know 17 at the end of the day is fine because we have credit cards so um she came over she sat down and like boot camp everything you know like was she so excited was she like i've been waiting for this day for you guys to be able to come come and see the light i don't know if she was excited um

but she was so helpful and like everything we just every step like she set us down and she created like our budget she created everything like and questions and when we were hesitant she was there for us yeah so that definitely like helped us out a lot incredible you guys okay so you upped your income you sold half the house you said did you guys do anything else any extra side hustles or did you cut expenses like what was some of the things that you did that really helped so um we with the help of my sister we set a very realistic budget where you know i had money for my nails i'm like i don't need money for my nails she's like okay you need to be realistic

like hobbies i'm like i don't need hobbies eating out we don't need mcdonald's you know she's like you're gonna fail if you don't keep it real it's good so the budget helped Francisco made a sacrifice to deploy so he can get that tax-free income so I was left at home with our beautiful children but it was a sacrifice we made for our family wow how long were you deployed for just three months it wasn't too long yeah That's a lot. That's three months, man. I felt the three months. Yeah, you did. Yeah.

And while he was gone, I'm a full-time college student. While he was gone, I was like, what can I do to make more money? So I was selling the entire house. Even if it's a dollar dollar it was a dollar towards debt like every dollar counts and then um i kind of started picking up pet waste and cutting people's grass gosh so i would like drop off the kids at school and then put the baby on my back and just kind of like and you would go and mow lawns mow lawns and pick up pet waste and we were you were ruining 70 to 100 million people's lives right now because they're sitting home going i don't have time to do that i can't do that so i

actually have a pretty really cool picture of her she has our daughter uh baby wearing her in front while breastfeeding her while weed eating while i'm mowing there was no excuses yeah there was no excuse for us not to get out of there you're the most gangster person i've ever met in my life and she has two sleeves of tattoos but for those of you that can't see like she really is she really is like francisco you just gotta know like if you ever cross her they're not gonna find your body yeah she listens to crime junkies too so i know she did i know i can feel it um so were very, I'm very passionate when I get going into things and I like to go all the way in. Oh, really?

I can tell. I was like, honey, when you come home, you have like a day and a half to get used to the new time zone. And then I need you to go mow lawns, you know? So I will say that we never had any, well, we're shortly going to celebrate our 11 years of being married and we never argued about money until we were arguing about the speed that we wanted to go and i was like everything's on fire we need to pay this off now like we can't eat he's like honey we were eating before like what are you worried about so um you know we we would fight a lot in the beginning because i argue we'll argue because of like you know i wanted to be so intense and he's like just sit down dude like it's fine you

know and i'm like you have a new baby yeah yeah yeah so um you know we prayed and we just kept our communication and the beautiful thing is you know know, it's 13 months, right? Yeah. And this isn't 13 years of your life living like this. It was 13 months and you did it and you got out, right? You got out of debt. So I want to know, how does it feel today being right here with us, completely debt-free versus where you were 13, 14, 15 months ago?

What's the difference? It's unreal, honestly. There's like really no stress at all whatsoever because I mean, now what do we have? Just a phone bill, internet, like that's it. Like what do we do with all this money? Yeah, we have so much, like we don't know what to do with it now.

So we're actually going to go talk to our Ramsey investor next Tuesday. So yeah, like we're going to start putting our money to work for us. So good. Are y'all going to do anything fun with all the kids and everything? So unfortunately he's leaving for Japan for three years in Thursday. So we're just trying to stack money up. So in case we get denied to go as a family,

I can just pack our stuff, pack the kids, and get on a plane. Oh my gosh, y'all may be going. Yeah, y'all may be. Y'all have a big transition coming up. Yeah, so we're saving for that. This is the least of your,

I feel like of your life. You're going to Japan for three years. Is that for job, military? Yeah. Yes, ma'am. But can we say this? Y'all put in the work for 13 months, and now you can literally pack up

and move across the world to stay together as a family if you want to want you can do whatever you want because nobody owns your family anymore yes so they can medically um they can say no we don't have you know the needs for your family and i could be like okay well i'm just gonna go to japan and all that oh my gosh y'all y'all are incredible i don't want to i want to to make sure we get your debt-free screen because you have all your kids. So bring them up. What are the ages and names? So we have Leah, who's nine.

We have Ethan, who's eight. Sebastian, who's five. Victoria's two. And this is my mentor, my sensei, my sister, Helen. Amazing. Oh, you guys, you're incredible. All right, we have Francisco and Brasheed from Fort Hood, Texas. There you go.

That paid off $105,000 in 13 months, making $84,000 to $96,000. You guys count it down. Let's hear your debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Amazing. Paul, that is how it's done no more excuses america sorry they ruined it for you no more excuses if you want to you can

if you own a small business and you like the ramsey show then you're going to love the entree leadership podcast almost,000 listeners tune in every Monday to hear me take calls from real business leaders and give tactical advice based on my 30 years of experience leading. This is not a podcast about business theory. It's real insight from a practitioner who actually does this stuff.

Find it anywhere you listen to podcasts. Or if you're listening on YouTube or Podcast Now, just click the link in the description. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. We are taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Some incredible, incredible people, I feel like, this hour, from Dr. Arthur Brooks. I mean, Dr. Brooks, one of my heroes. To the most amazing debt-free scream of a lady mowing lawns

with a baby carrier in front of her. I mean, y'all, I mean, just amazing. This is the hope that we have in America, right? I'm telling you, I think we're going to be all right. It is so great. All right, let's go to the calls. We got Jay in Nashville. Hey, Jay, welcome to the calls. We got Jay in Nashville. Hey, Jay, welcome to the show.

Hey, how you guys doing? We are doing great. How can we help? Yes, I want to tell you all, first off, thank you. I listen to you all. First thing in the morning, I get up early, try to get my workout in, and listen to you all while I'm working out. So glad. That's awesome.

Thank you. It's helped me to kind of get started. Hey, Jay, do me a favor. Can you talk directly into the phone? I'm kind of deaf. Yes, I'll speak up a little bit louder. Perfect, perfect, perfect. There you go.

Yes, yes. So I will give you all kind of a quick rundown, and I'll try to make this fast. I got married about seven years ago. And when my wife moved to where I was, we kind of had a little bit of misfortune. I knew she makes more money than me, but when she moved, she didn't get a job that maintained that income. And she took a couple of offices. And during that time, I was covering everything. And also, I went from a bachelor with my son to a married man with a father. I got a family of six.

And so when she lost her job and, you know, maybe switched to a job that wasn't making as much, I still was trying to cover everything, make sure my family didn't have to be. So I kind of made some bad choices, some desperate choices, and it put me in a bad position to where we got to arguing over money. My family members have done Dave Ramsey, and I was trying to get into that as well. But when you're doing Dave Ramsey and your significant others not doing it,

it still makes it for a battle. And I was just going, while I'm trying to, I'm already a cheap and frivolous guy, like I'm cheap, cheap, cheap, but when I'm trying to be cheap, cheap, cheap and do this, and then I have- Right, and she's not doing it with you. Yeah. So how can we help today, Jay?

What's the big problem? I mean, besides obviously, if you guys aren't working out together, but you trying to do this plan to get out of debt? I'm doing the plan myself because that's where I'm going through the separation.

Oh, sorry. Oh, it's no problem. So I'm trying to handle all my bad choices that I made by myself. And I'm okay with that. But the thing is, I only make, before taxes, I think it's like four or five. By the time all my deductions come out, I'm barely seeing 18. I got $1,150 in bills just renting electric water phone,

having to add in groceries. What do you do for a living, Jay? I'm in the education. I teach. Okay. And how much are you making a year, did you say? Before taxes, before all my deductions and insurance stuff comes out,

my check still today says $4,592. By the time it hits my account, it's $1,700. What are they deducting out? What's going on? Did you get a big tax refund back in April? No, no, no. I do not. Let me tell you, I'm looking at the

check stuff right now, and I have insurance coming out and I have I have I have insurance coming out I have Medicare coming out I have Social Security coming out I have retirement coming out I have business plan coming out and up to on some of these business on the insurance it's for me and my daughter um it's for me and my daughter. And then I also have a disability, a life insurance policy, and a life insurance policy on my,

you know, nothing major on my baby. We're just going to get some happiness. I can still bear it. And of course, I'm not wishing that on anything. But hold on. It feels like it's... Okay, okay. So what I want you to do, add for the insurance,

is this a whole life policy or a term life? The life insurance. Yeah, I'm going to go back and read. Okay, because if it's whole life, it's going to be pretty expensive. So how much are you paying in life insurance a month? Let me see. One is, a month,

one for the baby, for baby girl, it is $27. For mine, I want to say it is, let me see here, retirement is, I want to,

I can't tell. No, it's okay. It is because they're all through American Fidelity. Yeah, okay. So what I want you to do, Jay No it's okay Because they're all Through American Fidelity Yeah okay So what I want you to do Jay So a couple of things Number one

She does not need life insurance So you got sold Some grubber Whole life Kid whole life The reason you need Life insurance Is if someone

Is dependent upon Your income And as To a T Dollar wise Of you needing Every single penny We need to cut out

Things that are going out that are that you just don't need necessarily right so that 27 for her i would drop that policy today uh if you have a whole life policy i want you to look into that because it can be very expensive month to month and see if you can switch to a term life which is going to be a probably a fourth of the price so that's a possibly some some savings there. Stop retirement. I want you to pause retirement, Jay. That'll be money back in even things like vision insurance, like even our company, we don't we don't cover it. And you could pay out of pocket if you needed to unless you guys have some kind of situation that you absolutely needed it. But that's money being

saved for right now. So those are a couple of places paycheck wise that I want you to look at. And then I also do want to make sure that you're not getting more taken out, that if you're getting a big refund, that there's some withholdings there that possibly you could adjust. So again, it's digging into some of those numbers and looking because going from 4,500 a month to 1,700 a month, something's off there.

And they may not let you not do retirement. Sometimes teacher programs don't let you not do retirement. Sometimes teacher programs don't let you opt out. If you're in the... They won't let me... If it's like a pension kind of thing. Yeah, if you're in

Tennessee pension. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. Go ahead. Yeah, if you're in some sort of teacher retirement program, they may not let you opt out.

Here's... What's your all-in total for how much you owe? Student loans, all-in total $72,000 for, see, around about, I'm getting right under $100,000. Okay. So here's the... Student loans, credit card, and some loans. This is me talking to you as a former educator.

I was a high school teacher. I've taught elementary school. I taught college. I love teachers, and I'm in your world, okay? Yes, sir. You're in my neighborhood like we live in the same town okay what you have is not a passion problem you don't have a heart problem you have a math problem and you don't make enough money doing the thing that you love that i probably believe you were put on earth to do which is to serve your local community love and love those students and teach them.

And I think you're either going to have to do one of two things. Do that job and immediately get off of work and go get a second job and say, for the next 18 months, I'm going to not see my daughter very much, which breaks my heart for you, but it might be where you're at.

Or you're going to have to really start looking at getting another job where you can double or triple your income. And luckily you're in Nashville where there's a lot of people needing work. But that means you're going to have to walk away from the job that you hold dear. But you got a math problem and you can't't get ahead making you couldn't get ahead making four thousand dollars much much less only bringing home 1700 bucks a month because at that point you can't even eat what he said he's like after my bill after my rent and everything so right yeah you you do have to make a drastic change which again changing jobs and changing housing i think are the two biggest changes people make massive that it's hard's hard. So we're asking you to do one of those. So we don't say that lightly

and John doesn't say that lightly. But to his point, you have to be able to support your daughter and you want to be able to get out of this. So whether that is changing your full-time career possibly or just adding on. Getting a second job. Yep.

And Jay, hang on the line here. I'm going to give you a free coaching session with one of our Ramsey financial coaches and they're here in Nashville here in Franklin right down the street from Nashville.

But they can go through some of these budget numbers because somewhere down the line you're getting taken to the cleaners. You're taking way too much out of your check. Yeah, have somebody

look at that. But I want someone to sit down with you on your budget personal and we'll pay for it so hang on the line here. Absolutely. All right. But we believe in you, brother. Absolutely down with you on your budget, personal, and we'll pay for it. So hang on the line here. Absolutely. All right. We believe in you, brother. Absolutely. If you guys are listening

on radio, stick around. The next hour is coming up. But if you are on podcast or YouTube, go over to the Ramsey Network app. You can download it for free to get the last hour there. So just go to the Apple Store or Google Play, wherever you have your apps, and search the Ramsey

Network app. Thanks, everyone in the booth. Thanks, John, for a have your apps, and search the Ramsey Network app. Thanks, everyone in the booth. Thanks, John, for a great hour. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, you're still here? What are you doing? You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey Network app, right? All you got to do to finish the episode is search Ramsey Network in the App Store, Google Play Store, or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for free. Yep, you heard me right, for free. Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show. Bada bing, bada boom. All right, I'm getting out of here. Enjoy. We'll see you on the app.