The Ramsey Show - Are You Finally Ready To Get Your Crap Together?

Episode Date: October 25, 2024

📱Watch the full episode for free in the Ramsey Network app. Ken Coleman & George Kamel answer your questions and discuss: "My husband wants to sell the house for a trailer," "How do I balance work vs. time with family?" "I miss my debt after selling my Corvette," "Should I cancel my wedding to pay off debt?" Support Our Sponsors: 🌱 Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp 🏥 Learn more about Christian Healthcare Ministries 🏡 Get started today with Churchill Mortgage 🏦 Go to FAIRWINDS Credit Union for an exclusive account bundle! 🥗 Save 15% on your first Field of Greens order with code RAMSEY 💤 Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! 💻 Visit NetSuite today to learn more 🗂️ Use promo code RAMSEY for18% off at The Nokbox 🏛Get started with YRefy or call 844-2-RAMSEY 🔐 Visit Zander Insurance for your free instant quote today! Next Steps 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET or click here! 📈 Are you on track with the Baby Steps? Get a Free Personalized Plan ✅ Shop the right coverage based on your individual needs 🏖️ Invest in Your Future With a SmartVestor Pro ❤️ Reconnect with the NEW Questions For Humans Conversation Cards: Intimacy, Couples, Friends, Parents & Kids Editions  🛳️ Live Like No One Else Cruise 💵 Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app! Listen to more from Ramsey Network 🎙️ The Ramsey Show   🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 💰 George Kamel 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions is a paid, non-client promoter of SmartVestor Pros. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Welcome to the Ramsey Show where we help you win in your life. We want to help you win with your money, win in your work and win in your relationships. The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. Alongside the peculiar but professional George Campbell, I am Ken Coleman. Gonna be taking you through the show today. You ready to go, pal? That was an accurate description.

I appreciate that. You know me well. Well, I gotta say, I do love the shack it today. You got your fall shack it on. Thank you. I was just up at the Money in Marriage Getaway event and I see a lot of people in the lobby are playing hooky right now,

just to see the Ken Coleman on the Ramsey Show. So we appreciate them being here. Whatever you say, George. But you are looking sharp and you're ready to take the lead on our budget and debt calls. I'll take the lead on our budget and debt calls. I'll take the lead on income calls. So we want you to make that money work for you. Let's get to Liz who starts us off

at Charlotte, North Carolina. Liz, how can we help today? Hey, thanks for taking my call. So my husband and I were having a conversation about our finances and he thinks that we have too much house basically and thinks that even though we don't have any debt, we should sell our house, use the profit and buy something really cheap and he was thinking really cheap like a $3,000 trailer he saw on Facebook Marketplace so that we can just live mortgage free. I don't really want to do that and wanted to get some input. Is your husband nearby? No, he's not right now.

Oh, I was going to put him on the phone for a moment and as a man who's been married 26 years and counting, tell him that he's lost his ever-loving mind. What happened that made him go, we live in extravagance, do we need to go camping for a while to fix this? That's a big jump. Yeah, I mean, so right now we're at a pretty good place where we're bringing, I think, bringing in $7,000 a month take-home together. And what's your mortgage payment? Our mortgage is $1,500 a month. We have $220,000 left on the unpaid principal. So you don't have too much house. Are you saying square footage wise,

you just have too much room because the payment is not the issue? No, it's a 1,400 square foot house. It's not extravagant. Is he scared of something? I think he can, it's hard for him to Kind of keep just going with the plan and those fast Those fast things that get us to pay stuff off. What is the plan? Are you guys trying to pay off other debt?

No, we don't have any debt So where where's all of your money going that he feels so stressed? No, we don't have any debt. So where's all of your money going that he feels so stressed? I don't know. Well, it's a good question. We have about $2,000 a month in bills, $2,000 a month in spending, and then we could be saving about $1,500 probably. I'm going to come back to the question that George and I have both asked

We've asked it different ways because I think it's something you need to get the answer to As I don't know we can help you. I think you need to get the answer to what is driving this act of desperation This feels desperate to me George. Am I wrong? He's trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist but like there's a lot of angst in this decision. Yes Yes, and that's what Mike I was waiting for you to go trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist. But like there's a lot of angst in this decision, yes? Yes. And that's what Mike, I was waiting for you to go, well, our mortgage is $4,000 a month.

And I go, okay, I get the stress behind it, or we're in crippling debt and it's gonna help us get out. There's no reason, if you move into the trailer, what's it gonna do for you? Just have mortgage free. So we both work a good amount. And I think the hope would be that I could stay home that we would have more time at home as a family and it's just been really busy.

So maybe there's stress coming from that. Yeah, but you understand what I'm saying that I really think you need to have a some some walk time. Let's hold hands and walk somewhere. Let's go to a dinner and just say, hey, it's okay, whatever the answer is, but can you tell me what's really behind this? I think you gotta get an, you don't know, and I'm not guilting you on that, I'm just saying I think you need to know.

Because to that point, once you get to the bottom of what's really going on behind this, now we can begin to address what our viable options are. I just don't think it's viable. Do you think it's viable to move to the trailer? I can usually go with the flow, it's not something I want to do. That's not your picture of I want to stay at home and live in a $3,000 trailer and raise this child. Yeah that's not go with the flow. You're gonna resent him. Inside of two years you'll resent him for that won't you? Tell the truth.

Yeah that's probably, that's probably true. It's not probably true. It's completely true. You're a very nice woman. My gosh, you're nice. So if the goal is, I want to stay at home, let's then figure out, okay, how do we make this happen sustainably? Does he need to get his income up in order to still cover all the bills if you lose your income?

Let's figure that part out before we go napalm and go, we got to live in a trailer to make this all happen. Okay. How much do you bring home a month? Let's figure that part out before we go napalm and go, we got to live in a trailer to make this all happen. Okay. How much do you bring home a month? I'm only, I'm about 2,900 a month. He's about 4,000 or more, depending on over time. I think George makes a really good point there.

I think it'd be worth a conversation to see what over time, let's not rush this, because he sounds like a guy who's just, he wants to solve everything tomorrow. And by the way, I get that. I got a little bit of that in me. Like I always want to solve everything super fast and that ends up stressing my wife out.

Instead of being helpful, she's like, you're stressing me out, you know? I get that. So I feel him a little bit there. But I just wonder, George, if the conversation, I wanna know what you think about this. I think they need to have a conversation about, okay, over time, what would need to be true

for us to get $2,900 more take home on his side of the aisle, and you just referenced that. That, to me, is a more healthy conversation than selling this house and moving to a trailer. Do you agree with that? Yes, and do the tactical piece. Do a sample budget just off of his income and go, okay, we can cover the bills, we can invest,

we might slow down the house payoff process. Are we willing to make that compromise? Because the truth is, you probably don't need to spend two grand. We're probably living pretty comfortably. And so he doesn't want to change his lifestyle, but he wants to uproot the entire family and move into a trailer.

And so I'd rather see different sacrifices to make this dream come true. And you might find doing the budget, we can do this today. Or you might find he needs to make $1,000 more a month for us to hit our goals. Great, now we have a very clear career goal that Ken can help with. You see the difference there?

Yeah, yeah, that is a big difference. But again, I don't think, Liz, that any of this conversation will register until you both have an honest conversation and he feels safe and he finally burps out, if you will, why he's really scared. Do you know what I mean? He's got to get that out of his system. And you've got to hear it, not belittle it. You've got to be a supportive spouse on that and make him feel seen and heard. And I think that'll calm him down a little bit. And then we begin to talk about, as George just said,

other options to alleviate the same issue. Okay. And by the way, this also includes you being honest with him to say, this isn't an option, babe. I don't want this quality of life. I will resent you. This is not viable. Like he needs to hear that.

Okay. Yeah. You know, not, I mean, if I have to, I'll go with the flow. Let me tell you what most dudes hear when we hear that. Oh, she's in. I mean, we're idiots. On behalf of all men, we don't hear what we need to hear sometimes.

And I'm just being clear. I mean, I'll be honest. Maybe George is more in an entombment with his feminine side. It's not you being a jerk. It's just saying, here's my side. Here's how I'm feeling about this. And he needs to, you know,

you both get a vote in this marriage. Yeah. So, you know, just a good conversation and let's talk through some options, help you think through those options. He saw a cheap trailer on Facebook and went, this is the ticket. This is it. It's guy 101. It's a cheap trailer on Facebook and went, this is the ticket. This is it. It's the it's guy 101. It's it's

it's a male classically thing. Oh, super quick solve. How about this? He can buy the trailer. He can live in it. You stay in the house. There we go. I don't think that's the kind of relationship advice we want to give. We'll talk about it during the break. We'll be back with more of your calls. This is the Ramsey Sleash. You've been working the Ramsey plan and you've made real progress.

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help protect what you have worked for. So ditch the thumb drives and file cabinets and organize your digital and paper files with KnockBox. You'll leave memories not a mess. Get your family's KnockBox today at knockbox.com slash Ramsey. That's n-o-k-box.com slash Ramsey. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell is alongside 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225 is the phone number to jump in. George, it's getting closer and closer to Christmas. Feels like it's time to be doing a budget if you haven't done one. This is the time we tend to spend the most. We got to get control of that money.

Yeah. So you and the Every Dollar team, Jade, you guys have been doing these free live shows and you've been doing these free live shows. You've been doing these free live shows. You've been doing these free live shows. You've been doing these free live shows. You've been doing these free live shows. You've been doing these free live shows.

You've been doing these free live shows. You've been doing these free live shows. You've been doing these free live shows. You've been doing these free live shows. You've been doing these free live shows. You've been doing these free live shows. You've been doing these free live shows. You've been doing these free live shows. You've been doing these free live shows. You've been doing these free live shows. You've been doing these free live shows. You've been doing these free live shows. This is the time we tend to spend the most. We gotta get control of that money. Yeah, so you and the EveryDollar team, Jade,

you guys have been doing these free live trainings where you're walking through the EveryDollar app. Tell us about this. So this is a practical time where we show you, hey, here's what people are feeling about money, here's the plan to get control of it, here's how EveryDollar works. We're gonna show you how to create a budget from scratch and give you some encouragement along the way to get control of it. Here's how every dollar works. We're gonna show you how to create a budget from scratch

and give you some encouragement along the way to make it actually stick. Yeah, it's really good stuff. Tens of thousands of people. I'm told over a hundred thousand people have done these. So the next one is Tuesday, October 29th at 1 Eastern 12 Central. So think of this as a lunch and learn, if you will,

and bring your Tupperware or your Hot Pocket right there to the computer and get trained up. So there you go. You got nothing to lose. It's free. Nothing to lose. ramsysolutions.com slash webinar ramsysolutions.com slash webinar. Again Tuesday October 29th at 1 Eastern 12 Central time. All right, Jay is going to join us now in Tampa, Florida. Jay, how can we help? All right, can you guys hear me? Loud and clear. All right, yeah, so after one, yeah, thanks for taking my call.

I'm 24. I'm a social media creator with probably five, five plus million followers. And for one, I'm incredibly blessed and grateful for just even the opportunity to say that. And I'm probably grossing around $300, $400,000 a year right now. But despite this, I'm, I still struggle with feeling financially secure. And I know that sounds maybe a little bit silly. And again, I'm grateful,

but it's more about the feeling of not having this fixed income. You know, I don't have the consistency of like a employment job, just a traditional job. And so my biggest question is, how can I create a more stable financial foundation for myself so I can feel just more secure about the future down the line? Cause right now I never really know what my next like ad revenue paycheck is gonna be like with YouTube. Well what's been your worst month in the last 12 months?

Worst month? Well I would say the worst was probably probably maybe a couple ago, 10K in a single month. Can you cover all your bills with 10K? Yeah, absolutely. I don't have a lot of, nothing going on, no debt, fortunately, no. Right, but that just tells you, on my worst month, I still have a surplus.

So there's a reality to this and fact to this that you don't have to live in this scarcity mindset. But I do think it's wise to diversify. And even at Ramsey Solutions, as a business, we talk about how we don't wanna be so on one platform that we're so reliant on it, that if something were to happen, YouTube changes the algorithm, all of a sudden you're out.

And that's why it's good to have brand partnerships, your own product offering. So do you have money coming in outside of just YouTube ad revenue? Do you have sponsors or products? Yeah, I would say probably 60% of my annual income comes from sponsorships, but again, and I'm sorry, it's probably just more the nerves

of just running this new operation I've developed the last couple years, but it's the concern of not having that next sponsorship come, because it's like I don't have control over that. I do have an agency that represents me but even a few months ago I think I win three or four months without a sponsorship and though the ad revenue was coming in I have my family also working with me and so I'm kind of the you know the face of the brand and all that online and so it I feel the pressure at times. I get that.

I'm gonna tell you what I would do if I were in your shoes. And this has nothing to do with whether or not you're an online content creator or you owned your own wallpaper business, okay? So if I'm the sole kind of breadwinner, I would be putting a year's worth of your needs away. So we talked about your worst month, but what's your actual, what are all your bills,

everything, I mean soup to nuts, how much money do you have to have to have some comfortable margin to cover every expense in your life? How much, what's that number, round figure? I mean, gosh, it's so, because I'm so new to, you know, I'm naive. And that's probably the biggest thing that I don't understand. Naive people don't know they're naive. So you're a step beyond that.

At least I think you're misunderstanding my question. I'm talking about I'm talking about your rent or your mortgage, your bills. That's everything like groceries, gas. I'm talking cost of living. What is the number that you need every month to be comfortable? I would say like probably 5,000 okay, great thousand. I would feel safe. Okay, great and you can adjust this number later But here's my point if I were you what I would be doing is I would put $60,000 into a separate savings account above and beyond the emergency fund and things that we talk about.

That's what I would do. And I would put it in the company's account, however you pay yourself, I would put it, we call it retained earnings, I would put it in a savings account and not touch it. And that represents an absolute ground zero if something crazy happens and YouTube goes out of business or something happens and all of a sudden you start deteriorating

and you lose your sponsorships, you lose your views. Because I'm saying it this way because I want you to mentally walk through, like what would have to happen for this thing that just all of a sudden start to go down pretty quickly or tank? But if it did, if you had $60,000 in the bank to pay you the just bare minimums, you would be able to sleep a lot better at night, true or false?

Yeah, definitely. And I would do that. I mean, I definitely have somewhere around there put away. I think, you know, and I guess that's because it's this new industry being a content creator. Yeah, I get it. Yeah, it's just this self-employed job. And so, and I've been looking into different outlets of, you know, kind of- But if you had 12 months, Jay,

if you had 12 months to pivot to anything else, you would feel a lot better, correct? Yeah, I would say so, yeah. Then that's what I would do. George, I don't know if you wanna add to take away- Yeah, you already told me you're diversifying. And so I think part of this is also figuring out how do I own more of the audience?

How do I create an email list? How do I develop products to where I'm diversified? We recommend that with mutual funds across four types. We're not doing a single stock. And I recommend you do the same in your business as a content creator. And so find different streams of revenue to where if one goes down,

you still have the others to keep you afloat. On top of this kind of peaks and valleys fund that Ken talked about where if you have a lean month, you have a savings account, you have some retained earnings to fall back on. And I think it's wise to know that this pony train may not last forever. We may not make 400 grand on YouTube forever.

Maybe you make more, who knows? But I think the more you're putting away in savings and investing while also having some balance where you're spending and giving wisely, you're going to then learn, okay, I'm on the bike, I'm pedaling, I'm not about to fall off. And that takes a little bit of time. Yeah, and I think I probably wanted

a just more specific technicals I would have to ask is like, I have an LLC, I started that, I've been managing my finances, I got a CPA who helps me on a quarterly basis and all that. So I've set the basic foundation when it comes to maintaining my finances, I got a CPA who helps me on a quarterly basis and all that, so I've set the basic foundation when it comes to maintaining my finances. What would be truly, literally the next thing I should do? I don't have a 401k, should I start initiating, going down that path or?

Yeah, I would look into a solo 401k, if that's an option for you, depending on how big your team is, if it's just you and a spouse or something like that, you could do a solo 401k. You can look into a solo 401k, if that's an option for you, depending on how big your team is. If it's just you and a spouse or something like that, you could do a solo 401k. You can look into a SEP IRA as well. So there's some great options for self-employed folks. And you can get connected to a SmartVestor Pro at ramsysolutions.com, click on trusted services over there,

and get connected with an investment pro who can go, hey, here's your options as a small business owner of ways you can invest. And that's gonna make you feel a lot better when you're putting away 60, 70% of your income and then going, all right, I'm gonna learn how to live on the 30. Sure, yeah.

You're doing great, man, congratulations. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that young making that kind of money and asking these questions. And I also agree with you, George, and Jay, I would make sure you heard what George said. I think he said about 60% of his revenue is sponsors. Did I hear that right?

Yes. I'd like to see that number eventually get more even. 50-50, 64 to the other way. Add revenue, sponsors, products, start to split that out. Yeah, so that he's got a product in the marketplace that hopefully is self-perpetuating. Self-sustaining. So, he loses 25% of your income instead of 60.

Yeah, yeah. So, whatever, he's solving a problem. To have these kind of results, he's definitely solving some type of problem. So, good for you. That's impressive. All right, folks, quick break. We'll be right back with more of The Ramsey Show.

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Visit BetterHelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterH-E-L-P.com slash deloney. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, George Campbell joins me. The phone number is 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. Always fun when we have some folks standing on the debt-free stage just across the studio from

George and I and it's Vicente and Joanna are joining us welcome. That's right. Thanks for having us You bet where you guys hailing from we're from Grand Rapids, Michigan Grand Rapids, Michigan. All right Fantastic. All right. Tell us how much have you paid off and how long did it take? We paid off $173,500 and that's our house and we did that in 10 years. All right, wow. Amazing. That includes the house. You know, if Dave were here, he'd call you weird.

Ken's not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do that because I'm looking at you all, you look pretty fantastic. So, but nonetheless, you are definitely unique. Tell us the range of income during the 10 year period. Yeah, well, we started at about 85 grand and we're at about 160 now. Oh wow, what do you guys do for a living?

I'm a teacher and a music teacher and a worship leader at my church. So doubling up. Yep. All right, and what about you Joanna? I work in healthcare as an RN. Oh, very nice. Okay, good.

Have you seen a nice rise in your pay over the 10 years? Yes. Good for you. Good for you. It's really her income that explains that doubling up there. Oh no, trust me, as much as this saddens me, you're pretty limited in a teacher pay. And, but thank you for what you do

and love that you're also serving as a worship leader too. So that keeps you pretty busy. Yeah, middle school teachers, fifth to eighth grade choir, have taught band over the years. You do realize you're getting special rewards in heaven for being a middle school teacher, right? Yes. Yes, yeah.

Wow, middle school is tough. Chose the most awkward phase to serve these kids. That's amazing. What's the house worth? Right now? Yeah. Yeah, it's 450. 450? Almost 450 now.

All right. And what's in the nest egg, in retirement, investment accounts, savings, all that? About 250. Amazing, so you guys are edging toward that Baby Steps millionaire status. Yeah. Way to go.

Not far. Not far. We followed the steps. How old are you guys? We're both 34. Ooh, boy, if George gets his investment calculator out, those are gonna be- Don't make me crunch the steps. How old are you guys? We're both 34. Ooh, boy, George gets his investment calculator out. Don't make me crunch the numbers. Those are gonna be big numbers.

Don't make me turn this car around. That's amazing. All right, so my goodness. So take us 10 years ago. You guys are in your early 20s. And what makes you decide to follow these steps, as Joanna said? Well, yeah, we got married about 12 years ago.

And right away after we got married, we took financial peace together. We thought it was really important to do that. Actually, my parents made me and my brothers and sisters take financial peace when we were, I don't know, 17, all the way back to 2007, 2008. And that's kind of how I heard about you guys did any of it stick then or you just largely irritated by it no I I can't say the

same for others but it definitely stuck with me uh-huh yeah I was really excited about it yeah what was the why behind all this it's a long time to go we're gonna make some sacrifices and compromises to hit this goal. Just I don't know, just a life of freedom, not bogged down by debt and just like paycheck to paycheck living and just the stress of that. We just didn't want that for us. We didn't want that for our kids. Additionally, like her parents and my parents just taught us well. There's been kind of a legacy handed down. Again, like I Additionally, her parents and my parents just taught us well. There's been kind of a legacy handed down. Again, like I said, my parents made me take financial peace

when I was probably 17 or 18, I think. And yeah, really just, that's what we wanted was to have a life that was in freedom. Now, of the 173,000, was it just the house or did you have other debt when you guys got married? The 173 is all the house. So you guys come into marriage and the only debt you have is the house.

Oh, that's kind of unique as well. It gives you a leg up. You don't have to spend years trying to kind of pay for the past. You're building for the future from day one. So what were some of the things that you guys did? Because you took, I mean, again, no shame, no shade. But over 10 years, what did that look like?

What were your disciplines? What were some of the things you all did to knock this house out? Well, I'll start, but go ahead and join in. Basically, it's just kind of the long road for us. 10 years is a really, really's a really, really long time, even just a few years is long. And so it's kind of about,

you know, getting, or not avoiding all debt. I mean, we could have gotten into credit cards. It was tempting sometimes to want to buy a nice, much nicer car. All of our, we've probably had, I don't know, five or six cars over 10 years, sometimes to want to buy a nice, a much nicer car. All of our, we've probably had, I don't know, five or six cars over 10 years, and all of them have been well under 10 grand.

And so it's really just about those disciplines. We budget every month. We talk about it every month. Do you have any regrets from the sacrifices you made, or do you go, no, we would do it all over again? No regrets. No, we'd do it all over again. It's worth it. The baby

steps that we have followed and the principles that you teach, we have, first of all, we've followed them step by step in order. And so we've done them and we've done them in order and they've never failed us. And so we've just, we've known that's the plan that we wanted to, even though people out there do's that's the plan that we wanted to even though people out there do different things this is what we wanted to do and and from from the very beginning we were we were together and dreaming about our future yeah well avoiding lifestyle creep is a superpower in today's world and you guys did that for a decade hmm that's incredible

Joanna what would you say is the key to this journey to get out of debt? No matter what the debt is, how long it takes, what do you think is the key? Patience, perseverance, and not getting distracted. Not looking around at how other people are living or what they're doing. Just keeping the focus. That's so interesting. There's unity there and it sounds like you guys have a better marriage because of it. Yeah.

Are there things you learned just communicating along the way about money that made your marriage better overall? Yeah. I mean we've had to do that just since the very beginning and it wasn't always just easy but we were able to come to make some, I don't know, about compromises but we were just able to talk and dream together about what we wanted our life to look like. My favorite is dreaming together and now that the debt's paid off, it's like this opportunity. Yeah, real quick, is there an exciting dream you guys are knocking around talking about

now that you're completely debt free? I don't know. Just for years, we've just always asked, you know, what can we do? How can we give back? My parents paid for my college education, so I kind of see that as, you know, how can I pay for my kids? They're here, we'll see them in a little bit. How can we save for our own kids' education and give to grandkids and maybe even great grandkids, kind of keep that legacy going that our families and our parents have have started it didn't start with us but yeah we want to be the people who who continue that love it toward the other generations feels like they're keeping

the family tree in this case not changing it but keeping the family tree going leading with that generosity legacy what about like a spending goal you have it you're gonna come on come on do something nice for the wife traveling like this trip that we're taking right now and being able to stop on places on our way down here. There we go. And we're stopping on some more places on our way up. That's fun.

We're planning on some more big vacations. That's fun. We drove here in 2013, I think, Honda Odyssey. So let's upgrade her car. Be careful, that thing will last 30 years. You gotta upgrade eventually. We're gonna upgrade on the Odyssey. All right, you talked about your kids

and what you wanna do for them. Let's bring them up, let's meet them real quick. Tell us their names and how old. Is Aria, she's nine years old, and Peter, who is seven years old. Aria, come over here, baby. Now, have they been practicing? Have you heard them in the house, screaming?

We have been practicing with it. Free scream on the way here and everything, yes. All right, well here we go. We've got Vicente and Joanna, Aria and Peter from Grand Rapids, Michigan. They paid off $173,000 over 10 years. That includes the house, making 85 to 160,000. What an awesome family.

They've been practicing. I give it to you now. Take it away, let's hear your debt-free scream. Here we go,000. What an awesome family. They've been practicing. I give it to you now. Take it away. Let's hear your debt-free scream. Here we go, guys. Ready? Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah! Alright. Very nice. Well done. Kids got big smiles on their faces. I love to see the branches continue on this amazing family tree. That's inspiring. Don't you have a sense that actually young Aria and Peter really do know what has just happened? I got a sense that they do, that they get it.

They had a front row seat growing up. What a legacy. They were on the journey the whole time with them. I love that. So fun. That's why we do it right there, folks. That is a family that is on their way to being Baby Steps Millionaires and not too long from here. And we've got a teacher and a nurse

and they're doing this thing. A teacher and a nurse, it's gonna be multi-millionaires when it's all said and done. Wow, the American dream folks, in case you're wondering, I don't care what the networks tell ya or the candidates tell ya,

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the end though, you need an ally, someone on your side to take over the work and fix the problem. That's what Xander is all about. Go to Xander.com to learn more or call 800-356-4282. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you with us alongside George Campbell. I'm Ken Coleman. The phone number to jump in today is 888-825-5225. Chattanooga, Tennessee is where Mark joins us.

Mark, how can we help? Yes, thank you for taking my call. We are currently in debt about $16,500. Half of that is on credit cards. The other half is medical, and then we borrow some money from family to fix the used vehicle after we drained our savings to also put that money into our vehicle. I'm 40, I've got a four, a two and a three year old girls, married six years and I am tired of existing and I want to thrive financially. I want to teach them how to do that as well. Love it. You've had enough.

You're sick and tired of being sick and tired. Yeah, I'm sick and tired. I was raised this way of this is life, this is how it is, but I don't believe that anymore and just trying to get out of that has been a struggle. Well, I got to tell you, I admire you and you've come to the right place. Dr. Kamel is in today. We are in. Is your wife on board with this? Does she feel the same way? Have you shared this with her?

Yes, yes. Yes, she does feel the same way. I'm calling away from her because I don't have to be around the kids right now all the screaming and playing. Yes, we are both on the same page. We want to own a home. We're renting. We want to get out of this lifestyle and change. What's the game plan? How much do you make and how long is it going to take to pay off the debt at your current

rate? So net pay with both of us combined is roughly around 64,000. Let's see, with our debt being 16,500 we had a plan on being debt-free by the end of this year but then our vehicle which was paid off broke down and we've been spending about ten grand on that. Ten grand to fix a car? Well, transmissions are incredibly expensive and just while we were in there, we had to fix a bunch of things up. What's the car worth now?

Probably about 75, but it's paid for, so... $7,500 bucks? Now they can drive the wheels off. Well, I was going to say, I feel like we should have just spent 10 grand and bought a different car at that point. Yeah, but again, I feel like we're've just spent 10 grand and bought a different car at that point. Yeah, but again, I feel like we're just in a position where I can't afford that monthly payment

and also mechanical issues if they were to pop up. But you borrowed the money from family and that's woven into the 16.5? So we used about seven, five out of our savings and we used the 3,000 from in-laws to pay for everything because it was a very quick this happened we got to get a fix right away. Okay. So we've yeah so that's...

So you're bringing home $5,300 a month how much of that are you able to throw at the debt? Well on a good month we can throw about $500 to $700 but here lately it feels like that money's been going towards sick kids and clothes and everything else that we're needing. And just trying to get a better hold on it. I just can't seem to get a foothold on what to do and how to do. It feels like we need a little more money right now, maybe just to get stabilized. We need some more income, correct? We do, and I have the

opportunity to where I can work a lot of overtime And I do struggle with that because I have small kids. I want to be there for them I don't want to raise in the way I was raised where I feel like I didn't have a relationship Mark, Mark, let me jump in. I have a responsibility. You have a responsibility and I would take all the overtime in the world right now because they're really young so they have no concept of time and you're're not gonna be anywhere near this deadbeat dad that you're scared of being or this detached dad. In fact, the best thing you can do as a dad right now is work all those overtime hours, knock all this debt out,

get some margin, and then you can downshift. You gotta set yourself free of that right now. In fact, that's the best thing you can do. I'm thrilled right now, to be honest with you, that I'm talking to a guy who can get overtime. That's actually great news for you. You don't have to go out and find a second job. You just go bust it right now,

and George can tell you how to use that money. He'll get you out of this thing actually pretty quick. Yeah, Ken's talking about margin here, and there's two ways to get it. You gotta spend less or make more, and I think both are in order. Because right now you're telling me that your expenses are about $4,500 a month, just to cover the main bills.

So I would be on an every dollar budget, with your wife going through every single line item going, can we do better here? Let's reshop the insurance, let's cut the eating out, let's cut the subscription, let's sacrifice over here, that's gonna free up $700. Now we can go make an extra 700. Well, that's 1,400 alone on top of the 500.

That's two grand a month. You hear that, Mark? That means seven or eight months, you're completely debt free. And so that's where the math should inspire you, going, what is the margin we need to do this in seven months? I'd rather you be gone for seven months and the kids go, oh, where's dad?

He's working overtime. For seven months, they don't even know what happened, like Ken mentioned. Yeah, this is the time to do it. You wouldn't want to do this if they were in the middle of sports and all kinds of extracurriculars. So just trying to drive that point home that your kids aren't going to resent you for this,

not even gonna remember it. What would the overtime do for your take home pay every month? I mean, gosh, I could probably, I mean, depending on the call outs, I could make an extra 800 a month, maybe more. Bingo. There we go.

Woo, now we're talking, Mark. On top of the 700 you can already throw. And then think about if you were doing an every dollar budget, how much more could we find in our budget? Because right now you're talking, Mark. On top of the 700 you can already throw. And then think about if you were doing an every dollar budget, how much more could we find in our budget? Cause right now you're talking 1500 extra bucks. He said on a good month, George, that they had about five to 700. Is that right?

Yeah, that's about right. Okay. So that's over time of eight. So let's go with a low number. Yeah. Even conservatively, we're talking 1300 bucks. Then we find an extra few hundred bucks in the budget. I think you can do this in less than a year.

I agree. And I think it's gonna happen faster as you get some momentum. How would that feel, Mark? No, that feels great. I think it was just that lagging, that gnawing guilt feeling, you need to hear from somebody else,

and it's okay to do what needs to be done. It is okay. Yeah, because you know what you're sick of? You started the phone call telling us you're sick of being stuck in neutral. Yeah. And it's hard to be a joyful present dad and husband when you know these bills are looming.

You know that you're in this situation. Yeah. So I'd rather a short-term sacrifice so that the next 20 years of their life with you as the dad and you as the husband are gonna be vastly different than the last six Yeah, by the way, what would overtime look like? Is that all Monday through Friday just longer hours? No, I could do Monday through Friday weekends

Sundays are double time. Yeah, you know what I'm doing Taking yeah, I'm getting as many hours as possible Explaining to the kiddos what they can't understand if they can't understand it, you don't have to explain it. They don't have a clue. And then carving out little special moments once a week, twice a week, where you're doing something really fun with the kids and what that's gonna, what that will do is that will just kind of re-inject into your heart that relationship juice that you need for this season where you're getting after it. Do you know what I mean? Just, it'll just give you that little extra, little extra,

okay, my heart's full, you know what I'm saying? And that's huge, you know? Doing something special with them. You know, that to me, I had to do that for a season. When I was doing my own radio show, running my own company, trying to get this thing off the ground, I was doing it on Saturdays,

and I was away from the kids, and hurt and it wasn't fun. But I found ways, little pockets during the week to get that special time with them and it just kept me going. They were little. They had no clue, you know. Right. So give yourself a break. That's what I need to do. And I'm going to gift you one year of every dollar premium, Mark, so you and your wife can sit down, make that every dollar budget, income minus expenses, go through and do a little budget audit and go, okay, here's what's actually happening in our finances. Where can we do better? Where can we cut right now just for a season and we'll upgrade our lifestyle later and

get all the goodies back in? But right now, I'm looking at, you know, seven, eight, nine, 10 months of some sacrifice for the next seven, eight, nine, 10 years of freedom. I think it's worth it. Ooh, that's well said. Did you catch that, Mark? That right there, that's what you called it here. That exchange right there, the way George laid that out,

that's your mindset. That's a really easy trade off, isn't it? It is, and that's what I need to do here. All right, that's the only one. I wish there was a shortcut. This is the only way I've found that actually works. But most people prefer to live in mediocrity for their whole life, be in debt their whole life, manage the payments until they retire broke one day.

And their kids don't see a great marriage. They don't see a great dad. All they feel is distress coming off of mom and dad trying to cover the bills. Yeah, I agree I agree an old man once said Don't sacrifice the future on the altar of the immediate and in this case You can guilt yourself into going I'm not gonna go work overtime and get out of debt because I want to be around my kids Well, that's gonna affect the future as George just laid out. So Really good call, Mark.

Thanks for being vulnerable and sharing with us. You're a good man. You helped a lot of other people out there. I think so. And you're a good dad, Mark. You're a good dad. Bad dads don't ask these questions. Yeah.

Good hour. Thanks everybody for listening. This is The Ramsey Show. Do you ever feel like you're finally making progress towards your goals only to get quickly distracted by something else in your feed? Well that's why we created the Ramsey Network app, your single source for content that keeps you motivated. The Ramsey Network app is designed to keep you laser focused on reaching your goals.

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just click the link in the show notes to download our free Ramsey Network app today. Welcome to The Ramsey Show, where we help you win with your money, win in your relationships, win in your work. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell is joining me. It's 888-825-5225.

That's the number to jump in. We're here to coach you up today. You got some professional work-related questions. You want to move up so you can make more money? We'll take those calls. I'd love to help. And then if you just got your standard money questions, George is always equipped to take you through what you need to do. Brandon is going to start us off in Kansas City. Brandon, how can we help? Hey, good afternoon. Hey, I've got a question. I've spent most of my life really, really poor, largely due to I graduated with software engineering degree at the time that

WorldCom crashed and I paid my debt off and I've lived with little to no debt most of my life. And finally, in just the last few years, I've started making some pretty good money, real good money and uh, no other real debt, but I went and bought some fancy cars. And now I've been listening to y'all for a couple of years and I decided to sell my 2024 Corvette off and I'm not gonna lie. I'm missing the payment. I'm missing the car. I'm missing the payment. At what point does building wealth really start to take over that I'm going to

enjoy this versus feeling rich? Uh, at what point can I maybe enjoy both? I mean, it's just kind of a shell shock to me to go from nothing to having something and now I'm driving a $6,000 car because I sold my $90,000 Corvette and it's just kind of a shocker. Well, let me go back for a second because I'm just curious. Do you really miss your payments? I get you, I'm missing the 2024, but do you really miss that payment? Like that's real, that's a real statement in your mind?

Well, it's more like, you know, I made that payment and I was saving money and I had no trouble saving money with it. So it wasn't like I minded it so much. You don't miss, you don't miss shelling out that much money every month though. Oh no, and the real, listening to y'all, and I'll be honest with you,

what ended up being the nail in the coffin is when they jacked my insurance over $600 a month, and I'm like, whoa. Yeah, hello. Wait a minute. I mean, it's the cost to replace that car, and so that's an expensive car to replace. Sure.

So my question is, why the slingshot giant pendulum swing to either I drive a $100,000 car with a payment, or I drive a beater $6,000 car. Why no middle ground where you go, all right, if I save two grand a month, in a year I'll have 24 grand to spend on a used Corvette. And we're gonna do that,

and that's what I'm working on right now. So, I mean, I'm sitting back and building. So I own a company, so what my, I'm in the baby steps, if you want to call it as to, I need a very large emergency fund and I'm working on funding it. So just speed it up.

For the business or for your personal life? Let's separate the two. Both. Okay. Well, personal, I don't need much at all. I don't need much there. What kind of business? I need a very large.

I own a heating, air, electrical, and plumbing company. My win. We have about $600,000 a year in overhead, so I'm trying to build a safety net up in that $300,000 range. How long have you had that company? About five years. What's your growth rate right now? I've stalled it for the last couple of years

because I've not been hiring because I keep investing in the company. So- What are you investing in? When you say investing in the company- And I've kept this debt free. So, I mean, I've got eight vehicles. I need to grow three more.

And I've kept it all on the debt free side. Good for you. But each van takes 30 to 50,000 to set them each up. So, all right, here's why I'm asking. I love this, Brandon. Here's why I'm asking. You're only five years into this. You're being super smart right now by cashflow in this. My guess is in the not too distant future, and I want to go down this line here for George as well, in the not too distant future, you are going to now be able to hire. And my guess is your profit margin is going to take a really nice bump at some point,

correct? Yes, very nice. My friend, the reason I'm going through this is because I'm the Wall Street Journal, George and Brandon came out, I want to say last week or within the last 10 days, and in the front of the cover of the Wall Street Journal, and I'm going to get the headline wrong, but I'll paraphrase, it was like the new millionaire class. And it was talking about guys like you, Brandon, that are- On trades.

That are owning electrician firms or plumbing, and you got HVAC, plumbing, you got the whole nine yards there, I'm just telling you, you hold the line, you're going to be paying cash for a hundred thousand dollar Corvette in the not too distant future by just giving yourself dividend payments. You know that's true, don't you? Oh, I do. I do. Hang on.

I'm still just kind of going through that withdrawal and I'm like, how long does it take to get that withdrawal? I mean, it's, I'm not going to lie, when you've been poor your whole life and all of a sudden you get to play like you're rich for a little while, get that withdrawal? I mean, it's, I'm not gonna lie, when you've been poor your whole life and all of a sudden you get to play like you're rich for a little while, it's fun. I mean, it's fun. Of course, nobody disputes that. George wrote a whole book about that.

Absolutely, but you know, driving the brand new car with the new leather smell and then going to your $6,000 beater, you're like, oh, of course you're gonna miss that. And you'll get back there soon and the parameter is simple. Make sure that you pay cash for your cars and that the total value of all the vehicles in your personal world add up to no more

than half of your annual income. So what is your annual household income today? Oh, about, it varies a little bit. It's somewhere around 20% of my business. So 180 to 240,000. It's amazing. So let's call it 200K. So the total value of all your vehicles

need to add up to no more than 100K. Got it? So what is your, you said you have a wife? No, no, I'm single. Okay, you said we earlier, so I wasn't sure. You're single? Yeah, I've got my son, so whatever for we is probably, I was probably thinking about taking care of him.

So if you had a $90,000 car, we got no problem with that with your world, but we gotta pay cash for it. And I think the discipline of going, all right, how do I save up 90 grand? If that's what you wanna do. And by the way, we don't recommend buying a brand new car until you're a Baby Steps millionaire.

You may be. Have you done the numbers on this? My net worth is all in the business, basically. I got a a few other small investments, but I'm around $600,000 to $700,000. Amazing. So you're what we call a Henry, high earner, not rich yet. And you're going to be. If you keep this going, you don't inflate your lifestyle too much, I see no reason why you couldn't save five grand a month out of your personal take-home pay and have 60 grand

to buy a great car a year from now. Very good. I just started saving eight grand. There we go. I'm just two months into it. Yeah. You've got that itch to go, man, I missed that car and I don't want to wait another eight or 10 or 12 months to save up for it.

But building anything takes time. Anything meaningful takes time. The trivial is how you shortcut it. And that's what you did with the payments. You're gonna get back to it in a way that doesn't hurt your financial life. I got a question for George. Hang on the line here, Brandon.

I got a question for George. I'm gonna put it to him here. I think he needs to get rid of the $6,000 car. I'd like to see him jump up a little bit. Yeah, I mean, how much? Get something that's- It sounds like he's got savings. Something that saves and join, I mean, how much something that's, something that he's enjoying. Do you have some savings outside of the business

to upgrade car? Well, I'm going to very quickly. I mean, I blew everything getting rid of, so I didn't get rid of one car, so you guys know. I got rid of three. I had two big trucks that had loans, and then I got rid of, so I blew about 40 grand paying all these off. That's part of the reason why I got rid of so I blew about 40 grand paying all these off

that's part of the reason why I'm kind of having this withdrawal I took 40 grand that I'd saved up cash and took losses on all these vehicles when I'm going to be debt free and you know so I'm kind of going through that withdrawal my nice trucks are gone and my savings account went to squelch you know and I'm going now I'm going to build it back really quick. Oh you will. George I just think maybe I don't know What do you think yeah? I mean if you've got a city can save eight grand a month I mean if you're talking a 20 grand car in the meantime it's something that he likes for 20 to hold him over

I like this plan and just upgrade incrementally as you have the cash and keep living on less than you make keep this business Crushing you'll be there man, but I'm not missing the debt payments We'll get you that nice car smell in no time. And until then, you can get this new car smell of trees. A good $200 detail will change your life on any car. It'll make you feel like it's brand new. So you kind of fake yourself out? Exactly.

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Alongside George Campbell, I'm Ken Coleman, 888-825-5225 is the number to jump in. Today's question of the day is brought to you by Why ReFi? Private student loans are different than federal student loans like Sallie Mae, but they can hurt you just the same. Why ReFi refinances defaulted private student loans and builds a custom loan based on your ability to pay. So if you're in that situation, stop feeling the pain of the defaulted private student loan debt and go to whyrefi.com slash Ramsey.

That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. This program may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Steve in Louisiana. I'm a flight nurse and work five hours away from home. Love my job and the schedule of five days on and 10 days off. It allows me more time with my family than a regular nursing job.

I'm the sole provider for our family. And while my job provides excellent pay and experience, recent corporate changes have made this job much less enjoyable. So I've been exploring my options. If I stay at my current job for two years, I could pay off my remaining 50 grand in student loan debt. The other option involves taking a job closer to home at $20,000 less per year. This option aligns better with my career goals because of better growth opportunities. I'm torn between the financial benefits of sticking with my current position for a quicker debt payoff and the potential career advancement

offered by a job closer to home. What should I do?" This has got Ken Coleman written all over it. Well, I'm going to answer it with what I would do. If it were me, I would take the option that gives me the better future. Because the $20,000 broken up over 12 months, it's just not that much. And some of you may be going, Ken are you nuts? I think Dave would even probably disagree with me on this one. But I am a guy that when it comes to professional future, I'm always going to take the opportunity that gets me on the right ladder to go where I want to go.

And I think that he can still buckle down and pay this debt off. I also think that because he's a nurse, that he could probably get more hours. And I don't think it's necessarily he's looking at a just a $20,000 hit Now that's what I would do But if he feels like he can get back into this second option two years from now then maybe you hustle it and you knock it out, but I Just I'm gonna choose the long term. What's the best long-term play? just I'm going to choose the long term. What's the best long-term play? So if I'm going to take a $20,000 hit and I'm still trying to pay off $50,000, what I'm going to do, the first thing I'm going to do is how can I make extra money as a nurse outside of this new opportunity to equal the $20,000. If I

can't do that, I'm going to do everything to adjust my lifestyle by $20,000 and make up the difference in my expenses. Does that make sense? Oh, absolutely. I was going to say the same thing. I actually like the idea of him getting his life back by being closer to home, not five hours away. Well, that's another option.

He didn't seem to be bothered by that, but I'm with you. Well, he said more time with my family, all this, but I do think finding the gap is important. Like you mentioned, how do we find that 1600 bucks extra month that we're losing by taking this gig? And if that means a second job, overtime, cutting our lifestyle down so that we stay on track with our debt payoff goal, that to me is the, that's the Goldilocks sweet spot.

I agree. And I think that's doable. I think the advice we're giving there is feasible. Yeah, cause we're also not assuming, he said there's growth opportunities. What if in the next year, Well, that's the whole point. He makes an extra 10 or 20 grand. Which is why I'm always going to choose to make sacrifices in my living in order to get on the

right ladder for the future. So in this situation, if you have to take a $20,000 hit, you better adjust your lifestyle to where it's not a hit. Yes. Make it as temporary as possible. Very temporary. And notice that neither one of us said it was okay to press pause on paying off the debt. We didn't say that. So that's the direction I'm going to choose on that one.

I love it. Solid. Let's go to Manhattan. The big apple, George. You love to frequent it. I love it. Rose is on the line. Rose, how can we help?

Hi, guys. Thank you for taking my call. I am engaged and we have been planning a wedding, which would be about $50,000. We're about $11,000 into paying it. We've been watching your videos and we are $95,000 in debt, not including the wedding. And we're wondering if we should just call the whole thing off, do a small ceremony, and really tackle the 95. Yes.

Yes. Small ceremony. So we're not putting off getting married, we're just putting off a very expensive party. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. Is it just you two that are paying for the wedding, no family help? They would be helping, I don't know to what degree.

I think somewhere between 15 and 20,000. Okay, so you guys are on the hook for the other 35 between the two of you. Yeah. Okay. Rose, I don't know what George thinks about this. I've been married 26 years. We're heading to 27. And the other day,

Stacey and I were looking at our wedding album because she's thinking about getting it digital and all that kind of stuff. And what's interesting is, is that the photos that we had the most emotional connection to as we kind of went back down memory lane, it was just the us, the wedding party, but mostly it was family. And I remember sort of kind of what. You don't remember the flower arrangements?

No. I kind of remember some of the friends that were there. That day tends to be a big blur anyway. And so I guess my point is that I just want to appeal to your emotions here to say that if you do a small family wedding and you get great pictures of it, that's what you're going to cherish more than everybody else there and the shrimp and the, you know, all that stuff. The donut wall. Yeah, that's kind of like, do that later. You guys could do a really cool, maybe fifth anniversary party or something when you're

debt free. I just really believe that the small family wedding, as long as you mark the moment and you do it right within a realistic budget, George, I just, I like that play. And I think that's all it's going to matter to you 26 years from now. And if they're covering 20 grand, that's my wedding budget. I'm going, all right, we're not going to spend a dime on this. We're going to figure out. I'm so glad you said that because that was like, uh, Rose, not gonna spend a dime on this. We're gonna figure out. I'm so glad you said that, cause that was like, Rose, we ain't spending anything on it. We're taking the family money and we're gonna make the most of it.

George will come play at the wedding. He's really good. He's got an acoustic guitar set that is very romantic. I just saw John Mayer played at a wedding. I assume he was a lot of money, but you could afford me, Rose. Yeah, it's no problem. Thank you so much.

Yeah, that's great. Congratulations. Thanks for the call. I love, here's the thing, getting your marriage off to the right start financially, to me, is way more important than we had an amazing wedding and everyone was so impressed, because you're really throwing a party for other people. Yeah. And on behalf of all dudes, I would like to say that we really don't care.

Have a ceremony, let's get that thing done. And let's go to the honeymoon. I remember moments after the ceremony, I was like, we could have saved a lot of time and money on this. And you're people out after that wedding. Yeah. You've shaken the hands and kissed the babies and you know.

A lot of stress, a lot of things. And it's like you have that moment where you get to the back of the church, it's just you. The wedding planner hasn't even caught up yet, and you're just standing there going, huh, this could have been a lot simpler. As a guy. This could have been an email.

Let me be very clear that Stacey does not feel that way. But I'm just saying, like, the guys are kinda like, really, you know? 100%. So. Do you remember how much you spent on the wedding? I don't. Who knows?

It's a long time ago. Yeah. But I think it would shock knows? It's a long time ago. Yeah. But I think it would shock our audience. It wasn't a lot. I was a wee lad when you guys got married. Yes you were. But I think that, I think, oh boy, I'm gonna step in it right here.

Okay? Uh-oh. I think as a whole, Americans spend ridiculously too much on weddings. I don't think that's even controversial now. We're seeing, you know, six figure weddings become the norm. It's ridiculous. And by the way, I think they're getting price gouged. I'm gonna catch it for that.

The wedding industry is gouging people. No, it costs, I get it. No, it's a markup. It costs money to do all the things, but there's a lot of, you just have to do it because this is what weddings cost. White folded chairs should only cost so much. There ought to be a law to cap the price of renting white lawn chairs.

That's essentially what they are. Just go to Trader Joe's, pick some flowers, call it a day. Spend 150 bucks. Yeah. I think there should be like a community fund for weddings. The church donates their place. The chair people donate their chair. You know what I mean? It's like air people Living to they got a lot of chairs. They make their living on corporate stuff. Mmm

I I've gotten over my skis clearly but it's just too much right? I think we can do more with less and the people that really remember it They love you. Anyways, regardless of what the food was like or the doughnut. Well, I don't want to touch the doughnuts How long who touched those doughnuts before? I don't even to touch the doughnuts. How long? Who touched those doughnuts before me? I don't even know what a doughnut wall is. Is this a thing at weddings? It's a wall of doughnuts on hooks and you grab doughnuts off. At weddings? Yeah. It's a thing.

Feels like a church thing. It's a lot of gluten for me. That's true. You swell up when you get too much gluten. That's true. It's not a pretty sight, folks. You should see it. I've seen it. I had to give him his reaction shot one time right in the heart. He came back quickly. This is the Ramsey Show.

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1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100, Brentwood, Tennessee 37027. Hey, Dr. John DeLoney here. Data suggests people who have amazing marriages are happier and they're healthier. But in the modern world, marriage, especially a deep intimate marriage, can feel impossible. And that's why I'm thrilled to announce the launch of Questions for Humans Intimacy Edition. These cards will help you build a stronger marriage, Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. So thrilled that you are with us. 828-825-5225, 828-825-5225 is the number to jump in. Alongside George Campbell, I'm Ken Coleman and we're here for you. And I got to tell you, George. Oh boy. One of my favorite long running segments from you is the I gotta tell ya.

I gotta tell ya. I don't know what's coming. I gotta tell ya. I think we're spending too much on our dogs. Too much. This one's personal. America's out of control. No, I've got two doodles, full disclosure. Got a big guy doodle, Ellis, he's an amazing.

And then we got a little mini golden doodle, honey, and she's amazing. Yeah, love them, love our doodles. And I've been watching a lot of football, as I do, and the commercials now are starting to get ridiculous on premium dog food. Oh, I've seen these. But before I get to that, let me just make my case about how we've lost our minds about our pets. OK, give me some numbers. The average annual cost of owning a dog is $376 a month, George. And quick math tells you that's $4,512 a year.

This is according to a recent survey of dog owners. Gen Z spends the most of any current generation at an average of $590 a month, George, at $7,080 a year. 66% of these respondents have made cutbacks on the thing they need or want. 65% have sought financial assistance from friends and family. So this is dealing with the stress of owning the dog. The amount of money George is spending on dogs is requiring them to cut back on other things.

Oh boy. And seek financial assistance from friends and family. So you're telling me two thirds of people out there are going, hey, mom, dad, brother, sister, I need some money to fund Fido's life. More than 60% have cut back on home improvements, experiences, basic necessities to cover the cost of their dog ownership. And more than 50% of Americans have cut back on dog food,

pet insurance, and vet care. And so Kelly, the amazing associate producer, gave me this information. And so, George, I gotta tell ya, I'm getting a little irritated specifically with now what I think is an attempt to rip off Americans and their love of their doggies. And it's the premium dog food.

The premium dog food. The kibble, I guess, is killing them or what? I mean, we're talking about- This is like, why feed your dog dog food? They deserve real food. I've seen this trend. Have you seen these commercials in the trend? I mean, you own two dogs.

Yeah, and I have French bulldogs, which are very allergic to life. And so they say, Ken, well, you gotta make their own chicken and you gotta make their own meals for them with real vegetables and real meats. I understand that's probably the healthiest option for them, but if my dog is eating better than me, my priorities are out of order.

If I'm eating a frozen pizza and my dog's got the organic free-range chicken, it's a problem. We're doing it wrong. So I'm with you on this, and this is coming from a guy who spends a lot on his pets every month. All right, where do you, do you care to be honest with America?

Yeah, I actually did this. Do you see these numbers? Okay, so we did a YouTube video where I walked through the camel's personal budget, and I go, hey, here's a general list of our expenses, and we spend about 500 on our dogs. A month? A month.

Now this is between not just food, this is, you know. What? You're gonna hate this, between not just food, this is, you know, you're gonna hate this Ken. I feel like there's another I gotta tell you. We've got a doggy daycare situation. Twice a week to get their energy out because they're out of shape and we can't run them around the neighborhood so they go to a friend's house. Well time out. Why can't you, last time I checked, you have a very healthy gait, you can walk, how come you can't, you, last time I checked, you have a very healthy gait, you can walk. How come you can't walk your dogs? We do take them on walks,

but they get to socialize with the other dogs. So now this is- Like socializing your children. So you're wasting money, George. You can take your dogs on a walk seven days a week. As you know, I have no hobbies. Yeah, but you said that they have to get their energy out. No, that's not what this is.

You feel somehow that they're not getting enough dog relationships and you're paying money for them to go to doggy daycare. Oh boy, you're right. You just admitted. Now here's why I'm shocked at this America. I'm not picking on George, but you are the most frugal person I know.

Yes, and the dogs are one of the only places I'm fine to splurge on. Because there's one of the only. How much are you paying for doggy daycare? I think it's like, I don't know, 50, 60 bucks a week. I got it. You know, you might as well like that money on fire. But again, you might as well put it in your fire pit and burn it. In our stage of life, we've worked really hard and we love our dogs so much

that we were fine to spend a few hundred bucks on the dogs. It's in the it's in the every dollar budget. Do you buy what else? See, America needs to know 500 500 bucks a month? What else are you spending? Oh, you are buying them premium food. It's like the hypoallergenic, you know, all the things that they need because French bulldogs, if you know, are born broken. We're talking, you know, spinal issues, hip issues, allergic to grass, allergic to air. I mean, there's a reason.

Can I say something about your precious dogs? Yeah. And my precious dogs, and everybody's precious dogs. We've lost our minds. Yeah, because that dog, left to their own device, your precious dog, your super premium breed, will drink out of your toilet if they're left to their own devices.

It's disgusting. I agree. They don't care what they eat. Where do your dogs sleep? That's the question. That tells a lot about a man. Well, Honey's a puppy, and so we're crate training her. Oh, that's good. And so she sleeps in a crate in the retreat,

which is our room over the garage. And Ellis sleeps on his nice dog bed next to our bed. Oh, that's nice. But that's on the floor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But Ellis is eight and he's practically a human. He's no work at all. I don't have to do anything for Ellis.

Like nothing. Fill up his bowl. He's an independent man. Yeah, he opens the screen door, going out to our, he does it himself. I open up the door every morning and he head butts the screen door. That's amazing. Love that dog.

See, boom, right out there. You're taking your dogs to doggy daycare to get their energy out. I don't mind. My wife loves it cause she gets, you know, doesn't have to deal with them for the day. They get their energy out, they come home and they're wiped. It's great. They don't have to hassle us.

Speaking of wiped, there is a nasty rumor out there that I have got to get to the bottom of cause I feel like this is part of the $500 a month you're wasting. You've got to air the dirty laundry here on the Ramsey Show. The word is from some unnamed sources that you wipe your dogs behind. The dogs sleep in the bed with us, these little Frenchies, and so I've got to make sure they're clean. So you're watching them go poo, and then they walk in the house and you go, hold still.

You've got to check. You've got gotta check. You give them a wipe? That's right. I'm not ashamed of it. She's got an inverted tail, Ken. It's a medical issue at this point that would require surgery. And I refuse to pay for the surgery. I thought I'd heard everything on this show. Gosh. I feel like this segment was a... you did this to throw me under the dog bus. No, this is real data. As a budget guy, does this not concern you? I'm spending less than Gen Z, which makes me feel better.

But does this not concern you about Americans? It does, but I also go, listen, their world is chaotic. They don't have a lot of friendships. They go, this dog is my world. It's like their Tamagotchi. Remember those? You got to take care of the little Tamagotchi pet. I feel like you're running for Congress right now and you're just spinning this thing.

I think Gen Z's with me. I think pets are the last. Oh, I'm gonna get... Good thing I don't read the comments, because they're gonna make me the old guy, get off my lawn guy. Well, now if you talk about horses, I don't think horses are pets necessarily. When you need to buy land and have a farm and a stable, that's a lot of work. Here's an idea. If you gotta wipe your dog's butt after they do their business, maybe they shouldn't sleep on the bed. There's a step to me that I feel like is in between what you're doing.

We've already crossed the line. Once you cross the line, once that dog gets a taste of that bed, party's over. Is that not exhausting to you? You do realize you'll be doing this for the entire life of the dog. It is exhausting. But you know what? It keeps me humble. Hey, there's an idea. Doggy diapers. Just put a diaper on them at nighttime. That's, mm. That's a whole lot less than what you're doing. You're right.

I'll look into it. I will look into it, but I have no problem with it. But it also keeps me humble. I think if you, you know, you'll never have an ego when you gotta wipe your dog's butt. That's just one man's opinion. That's why I stay so humble. It's such an unnecessary step of humility.

French Bulldog owners will support me on this one. I guarantee it. And if you live like no one else, you get to live like no one else. And George is George is doing that. You know what, James, that right there, I stand corrected. If you, cause you are a baby steps millionaire, you can buy all the dog, but wipes you want to, you do what you do. And I'm, I know judgment over here. I'm, I know judgment over here. I feel like there's judgment over here.

I'm not, I'm gonna step away from judgment. No judgment, it's your deal. Listen, I'm not mad about it. If you're paying cash, don't go into debt for a pet. Put it in the every dollar budget, and make sure you're still hitting your financial goals. That's it. And if you would like to donate some doggy diapers to George,

send them to Ramsey Solutions, care of George Campbell, and we'll see if he tries it. And if you would like to donate some doggy diapers to George, send them to Ramsey Solutions, care of George Campbell, and we'll see if he tries it. Yikes. Alright, more of your calls coming up. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey folks, Dave here. If you haven't booked your cabin on the Live Like No One Else Cruise, now's the time because it's 90 something percent sold out. You do not want to miss joining me, the Ramsey personalities, and amazing guest entertainers for the ultimate debt free celebration. We'll be sailing the Caribbean March 22nd through the 29th, 2025 stopping at the incredible

Turks and Caicos, Puerto Rico, St. Thomas, and the Bahamas. Hurry to secure your spot with a $600 deposit today at ramsysolutions.com slash cruise. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman and George Campbell is joining me. 888-825-5225. Ramsey trusted pros shop the market and compare insurance quotes for you so you don't have to. Your pro will compare quotes, discounts, and bundling deals for you at no extra cost. I know that I'm a guy that likes to be insured, George, but I don't want to be overinsured. And that's why we work, our family, with a Ramsey Trusted Pro. We interview, vet, and coach these

experts. They're already market experts, but we want to make sure that they are paying attention to the advice we give you and coaching you that way. You can shop the right coverage based on your individual needs by going to ramsysolutions.com slash coverage. That's ramsysolutions.com slash coverage. Adriana is now joining us in Orlando, Florida. Adriana, how can we help? Hi guys, how are you? Good, how are you? Good. Alright, so I guess I have kind of a weird call. I hear you guys always having callers saying, how can I get my wife or my husband on board? My call is how do I get my 23 year old son on board to do a budget and all that.

How's he doing financially right now? He's doing really well. He does live at home with me now. And he makes a little over $3,000 a month, which for me, it's a good amount for his age. For a guy with no bills, absolutely. Pretty much. Pretty much.

I do have him help me with some rent, and he does have a car payment. I did buy him a car in December, but I told him he had to pay for it. So pretty much that's all he has is his expenses a month pretty much is maybe less than a thousand. Okay. When you say he has a car payment, are you saying he has a car loan? Oh yes. Yes. He has a car and he pays monthly for it.

Okay. Was this before you knew about the baby steps? Because I'm confused. You're trying to get him on board, but we just steered him off course. Well, yeah. No, I knew about the Ramsey plan maybe 12, 10, 12 years ago, I kind of fell off myself and then getting back on it. Okay.

And actually at that time he was 11 and he did his own little budget because he saw me doing it. There we go. That's what I'm getting at is more is caught than taught. So when he sees mom telling him, go get a car alone or she's got her car alone and she's saying, hey, you should be debt free.

You should follow this guy, Dave Ramsey. He's gonna go, what? You don't even do that. So I think the key to getting him on board is for him to see the transformation in your own life, to see what it's like to live without payments, to see you doing a budget. Right, well, I am doing it.

I don't have, my car's paid off. It's been paid off. Good. So, you know, and I do my budget every month month. So I'm like, okay sit down with me do Let's do yours and you know, he gives me the whole I have my own budget and it's in my head and you know Just like wait you did it at 11 with no problem. What's what's the issue now? Yeah Well part of this is he doesn't have he doesn't have a real adult life yet Can I be honest as long as I lived at home?

The budget was in my head too until I had to pay my own rent my own bills my own insurance and went Oh crap. I got it like figure this stuff out I can't have the cake and eat it too and right now he's kind of living in this like Purgatory false reality where his life is largely funded. So why should I do a budget when my bills are a thousand bucks a month? Is he working full time? He has actually two jobs. Okay. Yeah, one's a full time

and then he works part time at a restaurant. How old is he again? And 23. Yeah. I mean, if he wanted to move out, he wouldn't be able to, and I've told him that. Exactly. And I think that's where we need to out, he wouldn't be able to. And I told him that.

Exactly. And I think that's where we need to go. I don't plan to kick him out. Exactly. I don't plan to kick him out. I think Ken needs help on the career side. I told him if he wanted to leave, he couldn't. He needs something to sink his teeth into.

Well, here's the thing. We've got a couple of issues going on here. Uh-oh. And there's that one. You spooked me. You keep saying even if he wanted to move out, he couldn't. That's the problem. It should be very natural for a 23 year old to want to move out.

That is natural. Something about this whole situation is unnatural. I'm not trying to be unkind. I'm not blaming you. I'm just telling you that it is very normal for a kid to go off to college and be very excited about this new life that they live. And he's now 23, your son, but it's normal for 18 year olds to go off. George and I were just talking about this during the break. I'm experiencing this with our oldest son. It's normal. He's loving his college life right now and he's coming home for the break,

but he's already talking about how quick he came back. And I remember back those days where that was me too. And when I got done with college, I didn't want to move back in with my parents. So I think there's a bigger issue here that's not just the baby steps. You've got a grown man who's really not adulting to use a current term. And I think mom, I think it's time for you to kind of go, hey, babe, I love you. You got six months. You got six months to get out.

And I've not done a good job. You need boundaries. You need to move. I mean, that's what needs to happen, I think. And then this idea of how you get him on board, I mean, I think George is right. Model the way and be supportive. And I'm not saying you're nagging him, but the days of him listening to mom like he used

to are over. Right now, you're just a big, giant, comfortable safety net for him, and that needs to go away, because he's not going to grow up until you do it. Part of this is going, let's look at the reality of the numbers and why you can't move out. Part of that might be the car payment. You go, okay, what if we could get rid of the car payment and we aggressively pay this down? Then you'd be able to move out.

Look at the budget. It's showing you that you could afford this. But I don't think he wants to move out. Why would he? Are you doing the laundry? Are you cooking? Well, yeah. Hey, I'm staying.

Adriana. That's the thing. I mean, with this car, I can't even get him to understand. He can literally say that. Hey, I'm staying. But that's the thing. I mean, with this car, I can't even get him to understand. He can literally pay this car off within a year. Living at home or not, but I mean, living at home, he could. Adriana, you're missing the point that I'm making. But he has nothing to show for it.

Adriana, he hasn't had to work hard. He hasn't had to deal with reality. You're wanting this kid to think in terms of reality and you're part of the problem. He's not living in reality. Does that make sense? I don't mind if you push back on me here. Do you understand?

No, no, no, no, I get it. You're actually acting, you're expecting. I'm trying to push him. No, you're not. You're not, you've made'm trying to push him. No, you're not. You're not. You've made it too comfortable for him. You're making it too comfortable. The growth comes from discomfort, and right now his growth is stunted because he's living

in total comfort. His frontal lobe is not developed. The experts say it's like 26 or 27 for men, and I doubt that. I'm 50, and I think mine's still probably not there yet. My wife would probably agree from day in and day out. Okay. And the South would say your cornbread's not done in the middle.

Thank you, George. There you go. And, but in all honesty, Adriana, you're expecting him to function like you, a mature adult, number one, his frontal lobe's not developed. And in lieu of that, he needs real responsibility to get him in line.

And you've taken all that from him. That kid's got it easy. You've put him on easy street and you're going, man, he just doesn't have any gumption. I don't know why. I'll call Ken and George today. The reason he doesn't have any gumption is because he doesn't need any gumption.

Or grit, if you want to put that word. Let's get him some resources, Ken. I'm gonna send him your resource, find the work you're wired to do with the Get Clear Career Assessment. That'll help him with direction. And my book, Breaking Free from Broke, to show him a path out of this and show him what could be.

But again, George, don't you agree? If she doesn't make life uncomfortable for him by saying reality is coming, it's time for you to adult, he won't use any of those resources. 100%. Yeah. I'm big on this. What can I say to him that?

Cause I've even, I told him that. George told you, I love you. You've got six months to move out. He wouldn't be able. She didn't hear you. Okay, just give him an ultimatum that. Yeah, and out of love, this is not an angry thing. It's saying, hey, we're going to do a budget.

I want to make sure that when you leave this place, this is not an angry thing. It's saying, hey, we're gonna do a budget. I wanna make sure that when you leave this place, you're not gonna fall flat on your face. Let's do a budget based on what reality would be out there when you're covering your own bills. And if you can't do that, then we have to go, we need a better job. We need something, more of a career versus part-time jobs

that are funding the bills. Coaching, coaching based on reality. And say you get six months. July of 2025, here's what rent's gonna be on your own. Here's what your car payment is. Put a quickie budget together for him. Show him. And it's not in his head? Say, no, I want to do this on paper because I care about your future. I think you're more scared than he is. I don't think he has any idea what reality looks like, and I think you know what reality looks like. So there you go.

Hey, that is gonna do it for the portion of the show. Unless you're listening to radio that you're gonna get on podcast or YouTube, you can get the rest of the show. We got more calls lined up at the Ramsey Network app. You can search for that in your favorite podcast app or on Google Play. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, you're still here?

What are you doing? You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey Network app, right? All you gotta do to finish the episode is search Ramsey Network in the App Store, Google Play Store, or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for free. Yep, you heard me right, for free. Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show. Ba-da-bing, ba-da-boom. All right, I'm getting out of here. Enjoy. We'll see you on the app.