The Ramsey Show - Are you Stuck in the Paycheck-to-Paycheck Grind?

Episode Date: November 27, 2024

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Hey guys, Black Friday week is here with five days of deals starting at just $12. Go to ramsysolutions.com slash store to check them out. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author and host of the Ken Coleman show is my co-host today. So in the 1860s there was a famous poet, a lady named Sarah Hale. She was the editor of a book called Goodies Ladies Book. She penned the famous nursery rhyme, Mary Had a Little Lamb.

And for 17 years, beginning in 1846, she wrote to the President of the United States. And she was influential and known, so they would have received her letters. her letters plus back then people actually could just walk into the White House. It was a different world of course. And for 17 years sheize a day of Thanksgiving as a national holiday. In the middle of the Civil War, 18 months before the Civil War was to end, in 1863, Abraham Lincoln decided to do that. And his Secretary of State Seward who wrote a lot of his speeches with Lincoln, Lincoln was known for his ability to speak but Seward did a lot of his writing and Seward wrote out the proclamation and the President of the United States Abraham Lincoln declared that on October the 3rd,

1963, or 1863, that Thanksgiving is going to be a national holiday. Here's the proclamation. The year that is drawing towards its close has been filled with the blessings of fruitful fields and healthful skies, to these bounties which are so constantly enjoyed that we are prone to forget the source from which they come, others have been added which are of such extraordinary a nature that they cannot fail to penetrate and even soften the heart which is habitually insensible to the ever watchful providence of Almighty God. In the midst of a civil war of unequaled magnitude and severity, which has sometimes seemed to foreign states to invite and to provoke their aggression, peace has been preserved with all nations. Order

has been maintained, the laws have been respected and obeyed, and harmony has prevailed everywhere except in the theater of military conflict, while that theater has been greatly contracted by the advancing armies and navies of the Union. Needful diversions of wealth and of strength from the fields of peaceful industry to the national defense have not arrested the plow, the shuttle, or the ship. The acts has enlarged the borders of our settlements and the mines as well of iron and coal as of the precious metals have yielded even more abundantly than heretofore. Population has steadily

increased notwithstanding the waste that has been made in the camp the siege in the battlefield and the country rejoicing in the consciousness of augmented strength and vigor is permitted to expect continuance of years with large increase a freedom no human counsel hath devised nor hath any mortal hand worked out these great things. They are the gracious gifts of the Most High God, who while dealing with us in anger for

our sins, hath nevertheless remembered mercy. It has seemed to me fit and proper that they should be solemnly, reverently, and gratefully acknowledged as with one heart and one voice by the whole American people. I do therefore invite my fellow citizens in every part of the United States and also those who are at sea and those who are sojourning in foreign lands to set apart and observe the last Thursday of November next as a day of thanksgiving and praise to our beneficent Father who dwelleth in the heavens and I recommend to them that while offering up the ascriptions justly due to Him for such singular deliverances and blessings they do also with humble penitence for our

national perverseness and disobedience commend to His tender care all those who have become widows, orphans, mourners, or sufferers in the lamentable civil strife in which we are unavoidably engaged, and fervently employ the interposition of the Almighty Hand to heal the wounds of the nation, and to restore it as soon as may be consistent with the divine purposes to the full enjoyment of peace, harmony, tranquility, and union. In testimony whereof I'm here to set my hand and cause the seal of the United States to be affixed by President Abraham Lincoln. I read this every year and I have for almost 30 years on

Thanksgiving on this show because I'm a cornball and I love stuff like this and there's two things that never cease to strike me about this Ken. One is I just wish we could speak like this. Yeah, I agree. I mean it's the only time of the year I get to use the word beneficent. Yeah. I mean what a word that's a great word and the second thing is, this is the President of the United States telling the nation to say, thank you to God. Unashamedly. Straight up. That's what this holiday is. Thanksgiving and praise to our beneficent Father who dwelleth in the heavens. Thank you, Lord. What strikes me is the third sentence of this amazing piece is he's talking about we've

been in the midst of civil war and certainly we're not experiencing that, but if we think a lot about the last election season and we've just come through and we've been in the midst of a cultural war, certainly a divisive season. And so I'm struck by the fact that I'm very thankful today that, as he goes on to say, order has been maintained, laws have been respected and obeyed, and harmony has prevailed. Now, I don't know how much harmony is going to be around the Thanksgiving table around politics this year, but we are a peaceful nation and I think we should be grateful for that given the stakes and given the divisiveness. So I'm struck by those words that are relevant today. Yeah, it's perspective. I mean the time you look back, this lady for 17 years

asked, she kept knocking on the door, knocking on the door, knocking on the door, and finally a president in the middle of the Civil War decides this is the thing. But that was Abraham Lincoln's unique spiritual position. He's square in the middle of this huge conflict and still stops and says, oh, look at all the blessings around us and guess where they came from. So we're gonna stop and be thankful for that. Thankful that he did this and this is a great tradition that we should be thankful for as well. And we've been blessed mightily, this nation.

When we look at the world picture, God has been good to us and even Abraham Lincoln in a time of unbelievable torment of ripping a nation apart, family fighting against family, he was grateful for its goodness. And also, very positive as he looked forward there. A lot of positive vision he expressed. Heal the wounds of the nation. Ask the Almighty hand to heal the wounds of the nation. It's a good word. Yeah. Good word to remember right now. That's why I do it. So what are you thankful for? That's your entry onto the show today. Yes, I'm a

cornball, but it got my name on it so I can do what I want to with it. This is the Ramsey show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. This month is all about gratitude and most of us have people in our lives who we're grateful for. One of those people for me is the great Jean-Noel Thompson. He taught me how to be a dad, a husband, a professional, and how to balance caring for a bunch of people all at the same time. We all know of somebody else we can be grateful for, but there's one person that we often don't take time to thank. Ourselves. We don't always acknowledge that we're surviving, that we're moving forward, and that we're working towards a better life and better relationships. And in a world where everything's gone bonkers, it's not always easy.

So here's my reminder to thank the people that you love, thank the people in your life, and thank you. Sometimes we need some professional help to talk to somebody trained to help us discover true gratitude for ourselves and others, especially in the holiday season. That's why I recommend BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist at any time, so it's convenient for your schedule. Just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist.

Plus, you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. Let the gratitude flow with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us America. What are you thankful for? Joe's going to start off this hour. Joe's in Albany, New York. Joe, what are you thankful for?

Hey Dave, I am thankful for God first and my 10 year old daughter. Awesome. What's her name? My daughter's name is Aubrey. Very cool. Very cool. How can we help you today, sir? So I guess my question is kind of centered around God.

So main question is, does God want me or us to be wealthy? I kind of wanted to ask you that because I feel like you have a pretty big business and you have ties to people who are in church, so maybe you could offer some biblical insight. That way my finances and my spiritual life can be aligned a little bit more. Yeah, okay. Well, there's two ends of the spectrum in the Christian world, both of which create an inaccurate teaching of Scripture. One end of the spectrum we call the prosperity gospel that God wants you to be rich and

if you're not rich you must not be right with God and all this kind of stuff and that's not biblical. You can't back that up scripturally. The other end of the spectrum is that God says you have to be poor in order to be holy and that's actually not scriptural either. That's a form of heresy called Gnosticism.

So what actually happens is it's not really a spectrum between those two, but it's maybe a third point on a triangle off in a different direction. I was on a TV show with a pastor one time, and he asked me what he thought was an underhand pitch question. Is it okay for Christians to be wealthy? Kind of what you said. And I said, no, we have to all be poor. And it kind of freaked him out because he thought I was going to say, yes, it's okay

to be wealthy. But my point, and then I went on and expanded. So here's the true idea. God doesn't care if you're wealthy or if you're poor. He doesn't care one way or the other. All he wants is your heart. All he wants is your worship. And if poverty gets in the way of your worship, that's a problem. If wealth gets in the way of your worship, that's a problem. And that's stated by Paul in the New Testament, as a matter of fact. I've been rich and I've been poor, and you know, Lord keep me from having one or the

other if it gets in the way. If you remember reading that scripture, Joe, you probably have heard that. And so the point is, is that those of us that are people of faith, that are people of the book, believe that we don't own anything. We are merely managing it for God. He's the owner, we're the steward, is the old English word that has been Christianized because it was in the King James Version of Scripture. So we're merely a manager. So we don't own anything, we're managing it.

And managing wealth is a privilege, it is a responsibility, and it's to be managed for the good of God and for His Kingdom. The first thing He says to do is to take care of your own household, feed that daughter, or you're worse than an unbeliever. It says a godly man leaves an inheritance to his children's children. And that's not necessarily just an inheritance of character, it's also an inheritance of money, because Solomon built the temple, but he built the temple of God in Jerusalem with his father David's money. David was prohibited from building the

temple because of Bathsheba and his order of the murder of Uriah, but Solomon used David's inheritance to build the temple with. So a godly man leaves an inheritance to his children's children is fine, and of course you don't want to leave an inheritance to your kids if they're misbehaving because you're just going to fund their misbehavior. So, but that's what we're talking about here. So, you know, we've taught our kids that we're managing this money for the good of our family to eat, the good of our family to enjoy some of it, to be generous with. God loves a cheerful giver, says in Scripture. So this

continuous generosity. There's an indication all throughout New Testament and Old Testament to tie the tenth of your income as your baseline for your generosity, offerings above that. So we've got these, we kind of got a, like we got a job when you get money and your job is to manage money and then God gives you the directions on how to do that. How to manage His money. You take care of your own household, you're generous, you leave an inheritance, you stay out of debt, you build wealth, you know, but this idea that I'm getting rich for me to be a snotty rich person, no. But are all rich people going

to hell? No, that's heresy. Because anything that teaches that the blood of Jesus is not powerful enough to cover any sin is heresy. And so we're suggesting that a prostitute that comes to Jesus, a murderer that comes to Jesus can go to heaven, but a wealthy person that comes to Jesus can't. And that's what the Gnostics taught, and that's what some of these people who teach theology on Twitter think. Yeah, the parable has been torn between. Yeah, and it ends up you get this mixed message like you

are spiritually inferior if you become successful. And yet you're not, because the Bible says the diligent prosper. What is diligence? It's excellence in the ordinary. You're good at your job. Do your work as unto the Lord, Colossians 3.23 says. And how would you do your work? You would do it wide open. Like I'm working for Jesus. I'm gonna go crazy, man. I'm gonna leave it all on the field, you know? And if you're faithful with the little things, you're gonna be given more to manage. If God was against wealth, why would He give you more

to manage? And that's out of Jesus' own mouth. So there's all this biblical evidence that we're not supposed to worship wealth and that wealth can be dangerous because it can become an idol, but if we can maintain the distance from it as a manager instead of an owner, if you don't say, my, my, my, my, my, instead you go, I'm holding this with an open hand, what do you want me to do with it? It's yours. And then you're managing it, if you're faithful with the little things, you'll be given more to manage. And so then you don't have to live under this ridiculous communist left-wing guilt trip for successful people and then they try to put a Bible spin on it which is really hilarious.

Yeah. But on the other hand, you're not better than someone else. I know some of the highest character, smartest people who are not wealthy and that does, you know, you're not better than them. If you're managing more money than they're managing, you just have more responsibility. Does that make any sense? Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. I didn't realize that there was two, I guess,

crazy sides of each spectrum. And just knowing that God really doesn't care, it just matters where my heart is, that's told me a lot. Yeah, I mean, he wants you, that's what he wants. I mean, like, I always tell people, it's like, you know, people get so torqued out about this or that. Listen, you know, I'm giving money to my church. Well, listen, if God wanted your money, He would just take it, and there'd be a greasy spot where you were sitting. I mean, you know, it's like he's not worried about the money. You know, this is God.

So, you know, so it's, it's almost, you know, you gotta think sometimes he's sitting up there, Ken with Gabriel, just laughing at us. Absolutely. And I feel like after that sermon, there's only one thing to do and I should take an offering right now. That was really good. Three points. Uh, we should have the background music. and I should take an offering right now. That was really good. Three points, we should have some background music.

Three points and a poem. It was almost a Baptist thing. I could do an altar call and a love offering at the same time. It's a rare talent, but some of us have it. Because of the amount of hours I've logged. Since you're kind of growing your hair out, that would probably fit. Uh-oh. Are you worried that I'm heading over to the health and wealth crowd with the longer locks?

I'm thinking, no, no, you keep slicking that on back there. I'm telling you. Well, it's a new toupee. I'm trying to get it figured out. The glues, it's obnoxious. You know, you gotta really work it out. But yeah, I think that's a good word, Dave. And I love that he locked on to really,

I think the simple thing, if anybody's grasped me this for the first time, I think what you said in one line really captures the whole thing, and that is it's about your heart. So whether you have little money or you have a lot of money, it's about how you view the money, and that's just really good theology, and it just it cannot be... By the way, that's not debatable. It's about managing the money. There's too much Scripture that just lays it out that we're stewards of everything it gives us, And so that's just a beautiful answer to

that question. So no guilt, no overthinking, just lock in on what Dave said there, because that's about as strong a teaching on that as you'll get. The 1% are all going to hell. Let me scare you about that one. If you make $38,000 a year, you're in the top 1% of income earners in the world. Whoops. You're not gonna make it. If you believe that toxic, gnostic heresy, this is the Ramsay Show.

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Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co host today. Black Friday week is going strong. Going so strong we're gonna run out of stuff I think. Woo, thank y'all. We appreciate the number of you that have stepped into the store and have bought gifts that have meaning when you give away, I mean you can give them an ugly tire, you can give them a book, it'll change their life.

These are choices, right? And so thank you for doing that. Best selling books like the Total Money Makeover, Baby Steps Millionaires, Ken's book, John's book, On Your Past Change Your Future, Ken's book, From Paycheck to Purpose, all $12 each. The Total Money Makeover book of course has helped tens of millions of folks learn the step-by-step baby steps, Only $12. Kins Get Clear Assessment is on sale as a part of our Black Friday sale too. It's the perfect gift for someone who, this is the printout when you take it, what you

get. It's the perfect gift for somebody who feels stuck in their career. It helps identify your unique talents, passions, and mission and helps you outline a good direction for where you're going to with your career a lot of people Rethinking things here in the all the change that we're going through and here we come towards the end of the year a lot Of people resetting and going hey, I'm kind of hopeful. I'm thinking I need to make my move now Well that will help you do it. Don't wait check out our Black Friday deals Ramsey solutions comm slash store Ramsey.com slash store ramsysolutions.com slash store Kalamazoo Michigan, Darrell is with us. Hey Darrell, what's up?

Hi, thank you for taking my call. I'm grateful for my wife, my children, and I'm grateful for his forgiveness so that I can say I'm death free. Hey, hey! I love it! Good for you! Alright, perfect answer. How can we help today? I'm calling about one of my children who got married this last year, this last summer, to someone who has not got a green card. And he's grateful for the United States

because he wants to live here and make money. But she's working on getting his green card and the paperwork to do it requires her to have a long time of wages, like over a year's worth of consistent wages. She just graduated so she doesn't have that. It's a 10-year commitment and they're asking us, my wife and I, to sign up for this and be a co-sponsor with him to get his green card. And we're looking at retiring in about three to four years. So we're kind of on the bubble with what to do.

And we know that it's a relationship impacting thing too. And we thought we'd ask your advice. So what is it you're promising when you do that? They have to make 125% of the poverty wage and anything short of that, we have to make 125% of the poverty wage and anything short of that we have to true up. Okay. So that's about $28,000 a year he has to make and I don't know if it's her and him or just him we're trying to get that clear through the immigration lawyer we just don't know. Mm-hmm. Okay. And who... they have to file paperwork to prove that each year I

assume? He does. Yeah, that's what I mean. That's part of our questions too is do they come back and ask us for our wages each year? I don't know how that works yet. We're trying to figure that out. I want to know how they prove that. We're trying to figure that out. I want to know how they prove that. In other words, how tight is this mathematical audit on this? Or is it just like, I promise to do it, and we keep going. Then the second thing is, how long have you known the young

man? It's been over a year. He's very kind-hearted. He's very proud. He doesn't like to take money. Where does he come from? Which country? He comes from Jamaica. Okay. All right. Is he industrious? Ambitious? Very. Yeah, very ambitious, very industrious. He's been working under the table and he's been doing really well financially you know, financially paying his way before she even came into his life. Okay. So if you're gonna put a percentage on it, it sounds like you're gonna say 90 or 95 percent chance he covers this and you never have to. Correct. That's my take on it, but it's that fraction of percent that my

wife and I, we probably are on kind of different ends of the spectrum here. Yeah. I mean, really what you're doing is you're betting on him. You think, Ken? That's what it sounds like. Yes, but I'm just sitting here going, and I tend to be old school on this. I mean, I think he can do this.

I mean, it has to happen. I mean, it's all in. You guys don't even really need to be in this conversation, in my opinion. I don't know what end of the spectrum you're on. They have to sign promising that he's gonna do it. Oh okay. That's what their that's what the sponsorship is if I understood you is that what you said Darrell? That's correct. Yeah if he doesn't go do it then Darrell's got to write a check. So that's the only way are you positive of that that the only way. Are you positive of that? That the only way he could get his green card is if somebody else signs this?

Correct. Positive. That's really new to me. That is a wrinkle I was unaware of. So if that's the only way... I mean, you're looking at him. Are you willing to take this risk on him? And you know him a whole lot better than I do, obviously. Everything you've had to say about him is positive. Sounds like a go-getter. He is. And my experience with folks from Caribbean countries

is they're kind of like a Gen Z person. They're either the best on the planet or they're the laziest on the planet. A quick clarifying question. If he were to not do this, they're either the best on the planet or they're the laziest on the planet. Quick clarifying question, if he were to not do this, is the option for him to go back and you not have to pay anything or is the US government coming after you regardless because you signed the document? If he goes back the agreement is over. Yeah so that means my daughter would go with him and we don't want her

to leave the country. I get it. I just that's why I asked that clarifying question. I'm just real curious, where's your wife? You said opposite end of the spectrums. Give us who's on what spectrum? On which side? Well, she's really worried that we're gonna get caught. We just paid our house off so we are, you know, in baby step seven and she doesn't want to have to look back and have an obligation. We understand the freedom and comfort of that green grass in the yard, and we don't want to be in a position where we are pulled back by something. Yeah, I'm going to have a real strong conversation with him and her that's going to be uncomfortable, that's so strong.

Like I'm going to kill you two if I have to write a check. You guys don't understand how pissed off I'm going to be. So I'm going to get like all up in their grill so that we set the table appropriately where now they're not only scared of the US government, they're a little scared of you. And by God, then they'll, they'll go, dad told us he's going to kill us. We got to go get, you know, you better be driving Uber, man. You better be cutting some grass, cleaning some toilets or whatever it is you've got to do to make some dad gun money here.

Um, don't tell me I'm unemployed for six months. Yeah. It's not an option. Dad's gonna kill us. You know, and I'm gonna have a conversation that's very, very blunt and very strenuous so that I don't have to have one later. I agree, Dave.

I just put myself in. But I'm gonna do it. I sign it, but under the agreement that you're leaving. If you don't do what you're supposed to do, you're leaving the country. And I don't want my daughter to leave, but this is not my problem, not my financial problem. You have to go figure it out.

Cause I think it provides a safety net that I don't like. I don't like it. I understand the government. It feels like co-signing in a sense. I mean, it feels like. It very much does. It's a contingent liability. And that's what his wife's worrying about.

But again, it has everything to do with the quality of young men this is. And I mean, if you smell a rat, just don't do it. Just don't do it. And maybe you're the one breaks them up then, you know, by doing that, because he's got to go back now. So I don't do it and maybe you're the one breaks them up then you know by doing that cuz you're cuz he's got to go back now uh... so i don't know but uh... i'm not an immigration specialist but

i i would be willing to my sons-in-law are both very industrious very ambitious very successful in their own right nothing to do with me and um... in their own right, nothing to do with me. And, you know, I could easily have bet on them in the old days and have been fine. That's right. And so that's kind of what we're looking at here.

And you're going to be fine if that's what you're dealing with. So, I mean, but this guy better be a stud. That's all I'm saying. I agree, because I'll look at that young man and say, now, I'll take care of her. But if I have to take care of her, you're nowhere in the picture, pal. You're back in the homeland. I just don't, I don't like this.

I don't like this. But I don't like a lot of things the government comes up with. Stupid idea. Pass the citizenship test and give him the dad gum green card. You know? It's a whole other issue. He goes and joins the military, he goes away. So if he can't make the payment, he has to go join the military.

That's the promise. Yeah, I like that. I can be good with that. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey guys, it's Rachel Cruz. Just about everything costs more these days, and healthcare is no exception. So if you're looking at your healthcare options during open enrollment, be sure to check out Christian Health Care Ministries. CHM is not health insurance. It's a biblically-based health cost-sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of

families just like yours with health care costs. CHM is affordable, aligns with your values, and gives you more options for your health care. And you can join at any time, including open enrollment. Find out more and join today at chministries.org slash budget. That's chministries.org slash budget. Well, tis the season. In a few weeks we're going to be doing our special giving edition of the Ramsey show where we want to hear stories from you About how you have given Generously this season maybe you tipped a waitress a hundred dollars or a thousand dollars or bought Thanksgiving dinner for a family who couldn't

Afford one or whatever you did. I want to hear your generosity stories Or maybe you've been on the receiving end of generosity someone came along and changed your life or helped you or gave you lift want to hear both kinds of stories to inspire giving during this season it's our annual giving edition if you want to be part of it go to ramsey solutions dot com slash ask put giving in the subject line put a little bit about your story and our team will get in touch with you and make you one of the storytellers on our giving edition. It's coming

up on December 18th and remember we're celebrating living like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else. Mary Beth's in Virginia Beach. Hey Mary Beth, what's up? Hi, good afternoon. I am thankful for God always providing even in the hard times and then I'm also super thankful for you Dave, you Ken and the rest of the Ramsey personalities and how you are helping people to see what the true American dream is, which is to live debt free so that you can do what you guys do, live like no one else, but you can give like no one else.

Very cool, thank you. How can we help today? Okay, I guess I'll give you the questions first and then whatever details you'd like. I am trying to figure out whether we should sell our house soon. Um, hold onto it for a couple more years. Um, and then when we do sell it, do we rent or do we buy again? Um,

the reason is that we are including the mortgage about $440,000 in debt. Um, let's see. $47,000 is a HELOC and $14,700 in CARS, $38,000 in credit cards and personal loans, and then $339, thousand in the mortgage uh... my whole salary my husband makes six thousand a month uh... after taxes i am self-employed

i make about forty four hundred but then uh... all of my forty four hundred is going towards paying down debt and for uh... estimated taxes So my whole salary is basically going down the debt you mentioned. Yes, all of that debt. I am paying, I pay weekly on the various credit cards. So you got a $10,000 a month take-home pay. Yes. And are the two of you working on this together?

Well I'm definitely a Ramsey addict and my husband is kind of hands off the finances and I have tried to get him involved we've even tried to get him on the Every Dollar app. It didn't work out. He's definitely not a... He turns his whole check over to you to do with what you will? Yes. Yes, I pay down all the debt. I pay all the bills.

And I actually have a side hustle. My 4,400 is... Okay, so you have a $10,000 a month income and you need to clean up, what or I'm sorry about a hundred thousand about a hundred thousand dollars in debt not counting your mortgage right okay so why can't you why can't you do that in less than three years well I can that's the best thing in about 32 months 30 months I've calculated it out I can get rid of everything but the mortgage but here's the thing if we were to move I could wipe it all out and have a hundred thousand dollars to start

funding our retirement because the the clincher is that we have zero dollars for retirement. How old are you? I'm 58 and he's 61. Well the clincher is in three years you're going to start saving for retirement. My thought though was and that's why I wanted... Well you're going to be homeless in here with your thought. Your thought is I want to be homeless with $100,000 in a paper bag. Well not homeless. We would buy another place. Yeah and you would go back in debt. And you go back in debt. Well, but the mortgage would be if we put the hundred thousand dollars into a new place that's smaller and downsized then the mortgage

would be lower and we would have zero debt other than that and then my... Do you like your house? I do but it's a lot of work. I think I think you need to keep your house and I think you need to invite your husband to carry the weight of your household with you. Your shoulders are tired from carrying it by yourself because he worst and handed it all and set it on your back. Yeah and I think that's my biggest thing about why I'm pushing felling is because I feel overwhelmed by the debt. Yeah, yeah. Because you're carrying the whole thing by yourself, and I think you need to invite your husband to step up and shoulder part of this weight. Oh, I wish you could sit at the dinner table with him, because I have tried every which

way from Sunday, and I just don't know how to get him. I would say it just like that. I'm tired of you being a wuss. I'm tired of being the only grown-up in the family that carries the weight. Thank you for handing over your check and then me treating you like a little boy. I'm not your mommy. I need some help carrying this. Absolutely. My wife says that similar thing last night when we're cleaning up dishes after Thanksgiving dinner. Hey, wuss, get in the kitchen and help me. I mean, do I look like your slave over here? That isn't exactly how she said it, but that was what the look meant, right Ken? You know her. You know the look. There was strong inference. That's what I'm hearing. I mean you just got to communicate Nancy. This is not a bad guy. He does not, he loves his wife and he

does not know, he does not grasp because you've not been clear with him how much this is stressing you because he's not emotionally carrying the responsibility of this household with you correct your time you're tired he needs to hear it very clearly from you and then you guys need to roll up your sleeves together and plow right through this and keep your stinking house and then get your get your retirement started you have 15 years to do a retirement plan you'll be okay you're gonna have some money for term to pay

for house by then and you keep the house if you want to sell the house later. That's fine, but you're selling the house for the wrong reasons Yeah, and and I think I love being really honest with him about the stress Because I think he has stress and he's unloaded all of his stress onto you because I don't think he likes talking about it That's why Dave you so beautifully years ago and you came up with this whole plan You got the nerd right and you got the spender, and I think this is a guy who, he just has zero nerd in him, and because he doesn't,

there's a natural tension there, and he just shoves it over to her, and so she has to shoulder it all. I think if he could acknowledge, I know how I feel thinking about doing this, it's unfair that you're the only person feeling that way, and I'm stress-free. I need you to man up.

Yeah, he needs to learn how to deal with his own stress around talking about money. Need you to man up and help. I need you to help. And you know and you know it took 43 years for Sharon and I to get that figure somewhere along that line we figured out that you I'm she figured out I'm not a mind reader she just out loud and then and then once she found that out she says it pretty loud so it's so true uh... but i invited it so i would rather at least know what's going on if you go ok

why are you in there throwing dishes oh because i'm supposed to be helping you should have just said that instead of breaking everything okay right drop the pan fourteen inches above the sink yeah what's wrong? Nothing. Nothing. And of course guys aren't smart, but ladies for just all women out there, please take this from a man. We are not the smartest people in the world, but we are not stupid. We know when something's wrong. You act like it. We don't know what it is. So how about sparing us all and just tell us what is. My personal favorite day,

I'm so grateful for Stacy's learning to work through this phrase, but I love when she says, hey, we need to go weed the lawn or we need, it's something that she never does, but it's always, hey, we need to do this. And I'm sitting there going, here's what I'd prefer. I'd prefer that you just ask me to go do it.

Because for that slight moment. I get pissed off. Yeah. Because we know you're not helping. I know, because then it's- There's no, what, weed, you got a mouse in your pocket? Right. Like when are you going out there and pulling up weeds? There's a couple in the front row there. I think we've, we've hit a nerve. We've hit a nerve. There's no we. Don't ever say we. Well you gotta say we about something. I mean we teach people to say our money. Oh about the budget. We need to do the budget. That's allowable. Yeah, but because we are

gonna work on it together. It's not yet. That's the only we. So do the budget, that's allowable. Because we are going to work on it together. That's the only reason. So really, honestly, 98% of this whole thing here is, in your case, Mary Beth, I would just sit down and have a real clear conversation with him and I think that's going to take a lot of weight off your shoulders and you're going to sprint right through this and keep your house and that's what I would do on it. Happy Thanksgiving. This is the Ramsey Show. Do you ever feel like you're finally making progress towards your goals only to get quickly distracted by something else in your feed?

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Google Play. If you're listening on a podcast just click the link in the show notes to download our free Ramsey Network app today Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show we help people build wealth Do work that they love and create actual amazing and create actual amazing relationships. Ken Coleman Ramsey, personality number one, best-selling author of the book, Paycheck to Purpose is my co-host today. Happy Thanksgiving to you America! What are you thankful for? You got a lot to be thankful for. You ought to really just make a list of your blessings because it's a long list. Really, Thanksgiving is a thing and we're so happy you're here.

What are you thankful for? Nancy is with us in Tampa, Florida. Nancy, what are you thankful for? I'm thankful for every day I still have with my husband. Oh, that's good. Cool. So tell me your story. How can we help? Well, my husband and I have been together around nine years, married seven. There is a significant age difference. When we got married, he had five grandchildren and they kind of insisted on a prenup, which I didn't mind. I had my own house, he had his own house and my own investments, his own investments, no

biggie. Well about a year and a half after we got married he got diagnosed with dementia and I had to quit my job early and take care of him at 62. So I started doing my security early. I still had investment checks that come in from my investments, but the daughter kind of pays all the bills in her house and I still took care of mine. So you have your house? You have your old house? No, I just sold it in June. I learned it with my mother and she was getting elderly and she moved in with my sister was too much house for her after I got married so we sold it and by the time we paid off the debts, split the profits, I have about $60,000 left.

Okay, and so you have $60,000 there and you have investments of how much? I have about $200,000 in investments. And you're $62,000? I'm $62,000. Okay. two hundred thousand investments. And you're sixty-two? I'm sixty-two. I'm drawing from my investment account, I get about eighteen hundred a month, and I draw, and then I have sixteen hundred a month from my... And how old is your husband?

He's ninety. And he's not doing well, I take it. No, I don't think there's much time left. I'm sorry. Very sorry. Oh, so that leaves you, like his house that you're living in is in the prenup, I guess, huh? Correct. So, you know, the kids are going to sell it eventually, and I don't know what they're going to do with it. But my question is, I live in Florida, rent's super high, do I try to rent? Do I try to buy something small,

like manufacturing home, a condo, with a small mortgage? What's what I've got left? Well, I would try to buy something and work towards getting it paid off. Obviously, the least expensive thing you buy, the faster you get it paid off. Because the largest item in anyone's, not anyone, but most people's budget is housing. And if you're renting your 64 for the next 25 to 30 years every single year of your life, your housing cost is going to go up. If you own, you're locking it down and the only thing that goes up is taxes and insurance. And if you own and get it paid for, the largest line item in your budget is no longer the largest line item in your budget. So from a stability standpoint

in your life, I want you to get something and get it paid off as quick as you can. And then you can live on a lot less and have a good quality life from that point forward. Right. Well, that was my question. I was debating. What did you do for a living? What were you doing and what profession were you in before all this happened? I was a medical office manager for 20 years.

Do you feel like, I mean, I hate to think too much in the future, but this is a reality, you know, do you think you can get back into that world and make a good income? I'm not 100% sure. I've got serious back issues and I've got some disabilities. Okay. Well if any income you can add to the equation makes the equation run better. That's obvious, right? Yeah.

Yeah. So that's something to consider if it's not exactly that field or some version of that field of virtual assistant. I was thinking that same thing, Dave, because Nancy, here's what we're trying to encourage you with. You've got a lot of administrative giftingness. You're organized. You've got a lot of experience you can play with there and look at opportunities to work from home and even if you're bringing

in somewhere between $45,000 to $65,000, it's going to go a long way here as you start to move into the next chapter. So the prenup leaves you absolutely nothing? Pretty much, yeah. Well now what's pretty much mean? As far as I know, that's it. pretty much yeah know what's pretty much mean it's better than that that I have like 30 days after because there without okay so it covers it covers death as well as divorce yeah pretty much yeah okay

I'm I'm pretty much live separately as far as finances go from day one Okay, alright. I pretty much live separately as far as finances go since day one. I mean I've had my bills here since when I sold my house I paid off 30,000 in debt, I still owe 10,000. So I'm considering just go ahead and pay that off and it would leave me 50,000. Oh definitely. But I don't want to pay it off too quickly. No, go ahead and pay it today. Okay.

One less thing to worry about. You got that 50, you got the other 200, and you've got some ability to earn an income doing something. And those are your mathematical benefits as you walk through a very sad and tragic situation. So, hmm. So when you, you know, what I amounts to is when she signed the prenup, she felt like she was more independent than she actually is. Yeah. So it left her in a problem. You

know, and honestly, I mean, I get the idea, I get the concept. I don't know how wealthy her husband is. We didn't get into that. Do you have a feeling that he's pretty wealthy? That's why it's so stringent? No, I think he was solving for the grandkids and kids raising Cain about him getting married. And he tried to get, that's his way of getting them off his back. That's what I'm guessing. I don't know.

Just kind of got that running down my spine right now. The other thing is most, most pre-nups allocate something to the person, not nothing. Right. That's unusual. That's an unusual out within 30 days is stringent. Yeah. I mean, it's unusual. It's unusual to get absolutely zero and that's all of course based on the fact that she thought she was in better shape than she actually is financially. She's not in destitute but I mean she's not got two million dollars of her own so and she's 62 so there you go. Yeah I think you're I think you're looking at something to earn some income. I think

it's gonna make your life a whole lot better and and It'll help you open up the next chapter of your book as well Because you you know you've kind of been defined by this whole thing for a while And it's time for a new time for a second act act to Click or act three click This is the Ramsey Show. I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable. Yeah and what's so hard is I feel like one of those

especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible. People that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. When you have to think through how am I gonna pay my bills in the middle of all that grief, like it's just, it is. It's terrible. So life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people

to get because it's inexpensive. Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And it doesn't cost much because Xander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not gonna be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say I'm gonna say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza. To get a free quote, call 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282 or go to zander.com. Hey, listen up guys. Black Friday deals start right now.

Yep, you heard that right. You don't have to wait until Black Friday or even leave the house to get great deals on our most popular gifts. You can get our best selling hardcover books for just $12 and audiobooks for just eight. Give like no one else this season with gifts that actually mean something to your loved ones. Go to ramsysolutions.com slash store to shop the deals today. That's ramsysolutions.com slash store. The Ramsey question of the day is brought to you by Why ReFi? If you've made student loan mistakes with zeros on the end, hey we're not judging you, we are saying do something about it. Contact YREFY. They were created specifically

for people with defaulted private student loans. If that's you, go to yrefi.com slash ramsey. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Mary in New Mexico. My husband and I have been listening to you for 30 years. Being empty nesters now, we have found that we had to pull back the reins a little bit. Went back to using an envelope for groceries. We also eliminated credit cards and mostly used cash. The one expense that my husband refuses to use cash for is golf in all caps with an exclamation point. He has been an avid golfer for 40 years being the main breadwinner. He feels somewhat justified and deserving to continue this

hobby. He never remembers what he spent so we're constantly having to adjust for extra money that's coming out because he changes everything at the club and then we get an invoice could I please get your expert advice on dealing with this type of scenario? Well, I was a member of a local club for a while We had one of the things I'm very thankful for we had a corporate membership at a great golf course here and Stacey and I had to put this in the line item and so he's got to put this in the line item. And so he's got to put this in the budget. And if it's not going to be cash, because I understand the way these clubs do this,

he knows what it costs to golf. He knows what it costs to get a cart if they were adding that in. He knows what the taxes are on that. He also knows what it costs for a Twix at the turn or a turkey sandwich. So these are things that are all very controllable. And he got to play ball and so you know you know what it costs to play golf beyond your membership or whatever so he's got to put that in

there and you guys got to come to an agreement on this is what we can spend as we're having to tighten up right now. He doesn't have to give up golf but he's gonna have to maybe cut back so maybe that's rounds maybe it's a drink after the the round whatever it is he's just got to maybe cut back. So maybe that's rounds, maybe it's a drink after the round, whatever it is, he's just gotta be disciplined with it and it's pretty easy to track. He's just not wanting to do it, because he's never had to.

That's my take, Dave. I don't know what you think about that. Well, there's a difference between continuing the hobby and she wants him to quit. It feels like it. this thing's dripping in I hate golf wife language. Yeah the all caps gives it away. And so you know there's a difference between he has a right to continue his hobby because he's the red winner. He says that's different argument than hey you know you can't buy

all the expensive stuff and play. That's right. You know, because we're having to tighten up. And so we can put a line item to this and we can manage it if he chooses to be responsible. There's a difference between choosing to be responsible and choosing to play golf. That's right. I mean, you can be irresponsible, not bother with it, which is what he's doing. So I think step one for him, for you, is not try to get him to quit, it's try to get him to rein in the additional

expenses, whether you're buying food or drink or whatever he's doing while he's there, and you know, what can we do to limit that and put a number on it that we're not going to go over? And that's very doable. It's very doable. So, but I think there's more going on here than the golf capital letters, all exclamation points. Right. It's pretty much, I hate golf wife language. I saw it, you know Oh, no question about it and in his defense, you don't walk into the golf club with your cash envelope. It's It's a well, they a lot of courses don't I mean if you're a member of something they won't know they don't you have to sign Yeah, that's exactly how it works. That's the only way to handle it. So but it is track But that doesn't mean you can't that's right manage what you're spending and you should. So he needs to be responsible and you probably need to lighten up on the golf hating. Sarah is in Detroit. Hi Sarah, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hi, thank you. What's up? Well, I've got a, around an EIDL business loan that was taken out from economic disaster relief loan in 2020 for a business that has since gone under due to the pandemic. I spoke with two attorneys. They both said I don't owe on the loan, uh, because it wasn't personally guaranteed. And it was the name of a business that went under but I am a Christian and I'm I'm grateful for the blood of our Messiah hallelujah and God's law seems to say differently so I'm going to negotiate with the SBA I've been given a paperwork to do that i'm just wondering

if you have any advice on how to go she and then depending on what that number is how i should go about it you don't have the money i don't have the money for the whole on now but i have a much as a whole long-term much as the whole ok twenty five and and uh... twenty five thousand dollars loan how much is the whole okay 25 thousand alright and 25 thousand dollars yeah actually it's 24 okay and you have how much money 15 thousand okay

my emergency fund okay well there's two or three issues. From an ethics standpoint, the government gave you money for disaster relief for your business that failed, and it's not got a personal guarantee, and you're not liable. The government forgives that. From an ethics standpoint, you are not doingable. The government forgives that. From an ethics standpoint you are not doing anything wrong by just simply accepting the forgiveness. Because this is not a bank loan from a, the bank is not going to get tagged on this. If it's got an SBA label on it the SBA is going to cover it. Because this is a government thing that, you know, is waived in this instance, okay?

So, you know, another example would be like, if you have a federally insured student loan and you become permanently disabled, the terms of those loans are they are forgiven if you're disabled. You are not under an ethical Christian obligation to pay it anyway. The term of the loan was that it's forgiven if you're disabled. The terms of the loan on this are it's not personally guaranteed because it was given to a business in the midst of a disaster relief situation and therefore they did not require personal guarantees because it was virtually a grant is what it was and it didn't work obviously, it did not turn your business around. So I'm going to ask you to spend some time in prayer and make

sure you're hearing from God, not childhood guilt about what your Christian obligation is here. If you feel like, if you really feel like God is telling me to pay this, then for goodness sakes, pay it. Right. Okay. Not really. No. But if you feel like, that's okay. I mean I've been in those situations. I've paid stuff that, you know, people look at me like I'm a nut for having gone back and paid that. But I just, I felt like God said to do it. And then other times I don't feel any tinge

of guilt at all. I'm just done. You know, I mean this is the deal. It's the way the deal went. Sorry. Good luck. And that's where this one could fall. But I never step in between someone and the Holy Spirit. That's a dangerous place to stand. Yeah, I guess I should give you a little more context. I got to a point where, you know, I was three months default because I didn't feel like I did all that. You know, I don't lie. I do my best to follow God's law. and I got on the phone with the SBA and I learned everything that they do and how it wasn't personally guaranteed. And it goes, my information goes to the department of treasury after like they just write SBA

let's it go. Department of treasury gets my information. And then I started to feel like fear and I know that's not of God. Um, and then I talked to my family and I started to get advice just from other people and yeah then I actually suggested I called you. Well I think you're telling me you're doing this out of a an emotional guilt trip not out of a Holy Spirit leading I think that's what you just said. Yeah I think so. I'm not sure but again I'm not gonna stand between you and the Holy Spirit if God tells you to do something kiddo you go do it Dave does not get a

trump card on that I don't get to lay down on that hand so you got it you got a full figure that one out but if you're just scared, it's the government. Tell them to stick it. It's pretty easy for me. This is the Ramsey Show. You want to leave happy memories for your loved ones when you pass away? Not a mess. Your family will be grieving so don't make them spend days trying to access your computer or sift through drawers full of junk. That's why you need a Knockbox. Knockbox is a complete home organization system and estate planning tool that helps you organize all of your accounts, personal

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Dave Ramsey here and I got a big announcement. I'm coming to a city near you live on the Money and Relationships Tour with Dr. John Deloney. This is the most interactive event we've ever done. You get to decide what we talk about. You do not want to miss this. We'll be coming to Louisville, Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth, and Kansas City in April and May of 2025. Get your tickets and more information at ramsysolutions.com slash tour. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality Number One Best Selling Author is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions and we invite you to drop by and watch the show anytime. We do the show live Monday through Friday from 1 to 4 Central Time on the glass and we usually have 50 to 200 folks coming by and eating some homemade chocolate chip

cookies and great coffee all on us and they get to watch the show. In that same lobby we put a little stage called the debt free stage where hundreds now thousands of people have done debt free screams and that includes Matthew and Jody are with us today. Hey guys happy Thanksgiving. Hey how are you guys doing? Better than we deserve. Welcome where do you live? We live in South Bend Indiana. Very nice and how much debt have you paid off? We live in South Bend Indiana. Very nice and how much debt have you paid off? We paid off a hundred and fifty three thousand dollars in three years. Way to go. Range of income during that time? We started at

a hundred and sixty two thousand and we ended at a hundred ninety two thousand. Okay very cool and what do y'all do for a living? I'm a high school teacher I teach history economics and a little course called Ramsey's Foundations in Personal Finance. I work for a dental supply manufacturer and solutions company and I oversee their service department. Very cool. Very cool. Alright so Jody, how long have you been teaching foundations in personal finance? I've taught it, I think I've taught it three years, two times a year, so yeah. Now, when you're working a get out of debt journey

and you're having to stand up in front of high school students, that's gotta change the intensity. It does, it does. I think it gives the kids a better perspective on this is possible, you can really do this. Oh, you shared your story with them. I've shared my story.

Matthew often tells me I share too much with my students. You over share? I over share. They know everything. Yeah so I can't wait to tell them that I did my debt free scream. Oh make them watch it. Oh well. Play it in class.

Absolutely. So were the students, I mean high school students are brutal sometimes. Were they encouraging or were they messing with you or what? Very encouraging, yeah. They're super excited about this whole process. They're very excited about the fact that we're gonna be debt free.

I think they're very excited about their journey into adulthood and walking the path debt free as well. So it's been an amazing thing. What kind of debt was the 153,000? It was our mortgage. Oh, you're weird people. We're really weird. House and everything's paid for.

House and everything, yeah. What's the house worth? The house is probably worth, Matthew, what do you say? Conservatively five. Okay. Yeah. Million or a hundred? Yeah.

Fortunately, we'll stick with a hundred. Just checking, all right. It's South Bend, So I want to ask you about the students and the interaction with them. Obviously high school kids have a lot of anxiety. Yes. And how old are these kids that you're teaching? I have all juniors and seniors. Okay perfect for my question. Yeah. So that's when they're in this vice grip that cultures put on these kids to choose a college Mm-hmm, then choose a job and they're freaking out They're just never see more anxiety than this time in history in that age group

I'm curious when they start to get it you're teaching them the foundation. Mm-hmm And when they start to get it, do you see the anxiety drop as it relates to money? Yeah, just curious your take Yeah anxiety drop as it relates to money? I'm just curious your take. Yeah I think the idea that you can walk this path debt-free it frees them in a way that other paths don't. You know when they think well I don't necessarily have to go to that big-name college and take out all this debt I can I can find a different path and I can find a career I love even if that doesn't mean going to college.

I think it really opens a lot of doors for them and the idea that maybe not college is an okay choice that really frees them to do what they really want to do and have an amazing life debt free. So that's fascinating. That's some actual real common sense coming from a world class high school teacher. Well done. Thank you. Very, very well done.

So what got you guys plugged into this whole Ramsey thing? You decided we're going to knock out our house. Yeah, well, I think so. Really it's all Matthew's fault that we found you, Dave. And so you want to tell that part of it. Yeah, I just years ago heard you on the radio, started listening, and you reminded me of the Southern preacher when I used to live down in Tennessee, and so, just started listening

to this guy's, makes a lot of sense. And so, asked Jodie if she would, you know, maybe read the book along with me, and it was a total money makeover, is what we got into. And we got gazelle intense, we knocked out consumer debt very, very quickly, and then we went on autopilot for a little while with a 15 year mortgage. And I was actually very unhappy with the work I was doing.

And we made the decision that I would step away from my work and we were pretty safe by it. We had a fully funded emergency fund and at the time economy was booming and I also was getting offers from headhunters every week so I was like this is great and so on January 31st, 2020 I left my job and something happened with the entire world almost immediately after that.

You have the worst possible timing. Murphy moved in. Wow. Barely soundly in our house. To the whole world almost immediately after that. You have the worst possible timing. Murphy, Murphy moved in. Wow. Barely solidly in our house, yeah. To the whole world at that point. Yeah, it really did. So we just kind of lived in that for a couple of months. I was obviously teaching virtually,

and then we thought, okay, well, you're not getting a new job right now. So how do we make this work? We've gotten really good at budgeting. Matthew's a very good budget grocery shopper. We found that out. We ate more spam than I'd like to admit during that time. Mustard or no mustard?

Mustard. Yeah, good call. I grew up on it. I had to ask. Good man. I started doing like grocery delivery during the pandemic. And so we were able to pay our mortgage just with the grocery delivery that I was making. Matthew started delivering pizzas and we found a way to never touch our emergency fund. Matthew didn't find another job in your field

until about a year. So February, 2021, you got a new job. And we said, man, the only thing that stressed us during the mortgage. The mortgage. We're getting rid of it. Let's get it done, let's be done with it. Wow. And so I'm the budget nerd, I'm the every dollar nerd,

I'm the one that's on the budget all the time and Matthew started playing with the. The payoff calculator, I just, all the time, Saturday morning I'm looking at the Ramsey mortgage payoff calculator and like, you know, if we threw an extra this on it threw this on it and three years later yeah I'd have a knocked it out yeah love it yeah way to go how's it feel to be free it's absolutely amazing yeah the freedom that we have now to just do

whatever we want to do is amazing yeah take your shoes off walk through the backyard the grass feels different yeah yes sir yours and yeah it is quite a life lesson you've lived in front of your students thank you for doing that. Yes yeah. Thank you. For those of you that don't know what she's talking about we have a high school curriculum that's now been taught to almost 7 million students nationwide and almost 48% of the high schools and we've got wonderful teachers and administrators and sponsors that pay for it to go into these schools all over America. And of course teachers like Jody right here and that are world class. And we all remember teachers like Jody that were the good teachers

in high school and we all remember the teachers that sucked and that were just mailing it in. And so we always get the good ones. They're the ones that wanna teach foundations because they love the idea of taking common sense to their students. And the students like the material, don't they? They really do. And I have to say that George is their favorite.

They absolutely love George. Yeah. So yeah. Well, George is our favorite too. How can he not be, right? Yeah. They like George better than you and better than me. Oh.

Better than James. I've got too much of a dad vibe, so I'm not surprised by that at all. I mean, I've got kids their age, so George is super cool and fun. I love that. Well, the good news is that they actually engage, but I remember taking algebra and I'm going,

what is this calculus? And I'm like, unless I'm an engineer, what am I gonna be using this for? And I really have never run a calculus formula since the senior in high school. But I can't even spell calculus. The Pythagorean theorem doesn't come up much. Another one I can't spell.

But I'll tell you what, balancing a checkbook and staying out of debt, having an emergency fund, knowing how to do a budget, that comes up every dead gum day. So you're teaching them common sense, and they know that. That's why it's popular. Way to go, I'm proud of y'all. Thank you, thank you so much.

What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? I think intentionality is the key. Just being focused and working the plan. Matthew and Jodie house and everything! South Bend, Indiana, 153,000 paid off in three years. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one.

We're debt-free. Yeah! Yeah, baby! Yeah, that's how it's done. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey guys, it's Rachel Cruz. And guess what? It's my favorite time of year.

The lights, the music, the decorations, I mean, I love it all. And as a natural spender like myself, it's really easy to overspend. And I want to do all the things and give my family the kind of holidays they'll always remember. And at the same time, I don't want to look back at my bank account in January and think, oh, what did I do? So that's why I use the EveryDollar budgeting app. It helps me plan for all of my spending. And that's what a budget is. Then once I have my plan in place, I don't have to worry about overspending. I am free to spend guilt free and have fun doing it. Plus with EveryDollar you can customize your budget however you want. So whether it's buying gifts, hosting dinners, or even turning your

living room into a winter wonderland, EveryDollar helps you plan for it all. So you guys go out and create some great holiday memories with your family without the stress of overspending. Download the EveryDollar app for free today. Go download it today. Well the Ramsey Black Friday sale is going gangbusters. Thank you guys for all of your interest. We're not gonna run out but we're watching it. Thank you. Meaningful gifts for family and friends as low as eight dollars. Best-selling books like The Total Money Makeover or Baby Steps Millionaires for just $12. Audio books and ebooks of everything $8. The Rachel Cruz wallet and Black Camel Brown and

Champagne are on sale. Questions for Humans Conversation Cards start at $12. Rachel's brand new children's book that just came out last week is there, plus the original two books. There's three in the trilogy. All of this is there at ramsaysolutions.com slash store and there's a big sale going on. So click the link in the description if you're on YouTube or podcast or go to ramsaysolutions.com slash store. Reminder that this is the last segment of the show that you hear on podcast and YouTube unless you jump over to the Ramsey Network app. Every day the third

segment of the show is on the Ramsey Network app and a lot of other goodies and interviews and things and early arrivals of early releases of things are there. It's completely free. Ramsey Network app. You can get it in the app store at Google Play or Apple of course. And we want you to check it out. You can ask questions there. You can organize and search by. You can search some of the calls that have come in by subject. A lot going on with this app. So be sure and check it out. It's completely free. There is no subscription. No sales's completely free. There is no subscription. No salesman will call. There is no upgrade.

There's nothing. It's just there. So check it out. The Ramsey Network app, and that's where we will go in just a few minutes. In the meantime, let's talk to Elise in Colorado Springs. Hi, Elise. How are you? I'm good.

How about you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So I'm calling because I'm a babysitter too. I make $96,000 a year and have about $25,000 left in debt, which I should be dead through by June. Good. I'm single, oh thank you. I'm single and a full-time student doing my master's degree in social work and have a year and a half left in that. Master's degree in what? Master's in social work. Social work, okay cool, good for you. It's gonna be great I get to serve and help people send me off them. So my

question is do I need to buy a house? I currently live in an apartment, do I need to buy a house and if so when would I do that and then also since I am single do I need to save the six months of emergency fund after I'm debt free or should I can I do less no you need the six months yeah you need the umbrella in case it storms and that's baby step three if you're going to buy a home the soonest you would do that is what we call baby step 3b Which is after your emergency fund is in place you start saving for a down payment on the house. That's the soonest There's not a requirement in the short term that anyone buy a home I'm a strong proponent of you owning a home as a long-term

issue because they go up in value and You're stabilizing the most expensive line item in your budget which is housing if you rent for the next 50 years you can count on 100% of those years the rent will go up Every year every year That is true, and you're gonna get you're gonna have stress added to your life from just being displaced by a landlord deciding that they're going to sell the house or uh... or they just move you out or whatever because you're not in control because you're not the owner so

your stress level goes down the line item in your budget stabilizes and it goes up in value and adds to your wealth building program so there's a lot of great reasons to own a home but there's no reason to rush into it. Yeah, that's the thing I'm worried about. So I'm a veteran and I've heard you say that the zero down payment is a bad idea. It is. So I shouldn't use my VA loan? No, VA loan is way more expensive than a conventional loan. Just save up a good down payment and take out a conventional 15 year fixed

where the payments no more than a fourth of your take-home pay once you're the other side of baby step three if you want to buy. But if you're in a bunch of transition time in your life, you're finishing, you may move, finishing a master's, you might move to pick up a job in that field in a different area. finishing a master's you might move to pick up a job in that field in a different area and you know you're kind of just enjoying being single right now and all that hey that's okay I mean if you take if it's three or four years or something before you get around to thinking about buying or five years it's not the end of the world now real estate prices will go up during that time but um but what I'm discussing is a ten or a 20 year decision not a three or a four year decision

So, you know, I don't want you to go buy something just because you need to go buy something No, we don't we don't believe that so Take your time You know What when is the rhythm of this right for you and it will be after you're out of debt and have the emergency fund? In place before you think about anything else. Yeah, I like that she's got her path figured out and it's like get through the masters, get in there, start helping people, figure out what that new life

looks like, what is your income gonna look like? She's gonna be somewhat capped, you know what I mean? And so getting, I don't mind renting during that first year to two just to figure out what my professional situation is gonna look like. You get paid 90 grand a year with social work with a master's? I'm not aware of that. I don't think so. I would not have. Sounds like she's signing up for a pay cut. Yeah it feels that way.

If I'm guessing and I'll look during the break but if I was going to guess I'd say the 60 to 70 range would probably top out. That depends if she's working for a local municipality or state government, you're going to be very much capped. If she can somehow take that masters in social work and she's in the private sector, then I think you could probably make a case for that. Yeah. Garrett's in Seattle.

Hi, Garrett, how are you? Good. How are you doing today, gentlemen? Better than we deserve. Happy Thanksgiving. What are you thankful for? Definitely my family, and this show. Oh show oh thank you how can we help so I'm gonna be joining the Air Force next year I'm currently on baby steps to or my family

is and I'm just trying to figure out the best way to kind of go about tackling our debts to really set ourselves up for success once I head off to officer training and make sure that my wife and kid are in a solid position to how much debt you got. Right now, I'm sitting right at about a thousand or a hundred thousand for the family. Wow. How do you clear that in a year? Uh, it's hard work. Yeah. What do you make? Right now I'm currently making about 72,000 a year okay so where do we get a hundred plus living expenses in one year I'm sorry I think I might have I thought you said you wanted to be debt

free for you went in the Air Force one year from today. No, sorry, I'm not trying to be debt-free before I go into the Air Force. I'm just trying to navigate kind of the best strategy. We just sold our house about a year ago, so we have a good amount of money that we're sitting on. Oh, how much are you sitting on? Right now about $33,000. Okay, and what is the $100,000 in debt? $25,000 is for our car and then the

other remaining $75,000 is for student loans. Okay, well sell the car. Okay, sell the car or use the $33,000 to pay it off? No, sell it. Use the $33,000 on the student loans and get you $10,000 or $5,000 paid for a car. You don't need to stick a car payment for one thing. I mean if you could almost be done with the student loan, if you sold the car that's 25 of the 100 and the rest is student loans, right? Correct. Okay, so and let's just pretend you bought a $5,000 car and you sold the $25,000 car and pretend you bought a $5,000 car and you sold the $25,000 car and you throw the 30 you throw 25 at the 75 at least 50 to pay off you could almost be debt-free by the time you take officer school officer school all paid for yeah so

officer school will be all through the Air Force and then after that it's when I'll go into my technical training and start the career. Yeah okay good for you. What are you gonna be training for? Yeah either cybersecurity or intelligence. Excellent, excellent. Hey thanks for your service to the country. Yeah I think the more of this you have in the rear-view mirror even if it's uncomfortable the better officer school is gonna go yeah and that's what you're asking actually and I agree with your you know your principal here yeah yeah I agree I think this is knock it out use the baby steps the way we teach it that snowball just lean in

everything you can you're renting and you're moving anyway to go to officer school so that's why I sold the house good stuff Garrett thank you for the call That puts this hour the Ramsey show in the books Music Hey, you're still here? What are you doing? You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey Network app, right? All you gotta do to finish the episode is search Ramsey Network in the App Store, Google

Play Store, or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for free. Yep, you heard me right, for free. Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show. Badabing, badaboom. Alright, I'm getting out of here. Enjoy. We'll see you on the app.