The Ramsey Show - Attack Your Debt Instead of Letting It Attack You

Episode Date: February 20, 2025

📈 Are you on track with the Baby Steps? Get a Free Personalized Plan Dave Ramsey & George Kamel answer your questions and discuss: "I owe money on 27 different credit cards," "I lost my job and can't pay my rent," "How should we rent a home to our parents?" "What should I do with $650k of Tesla stock?" "Is it irresponsible to go to Brazil while in debt?" "Are we responsible for Mom's debt and reverse mortgage?" Support Our Sponsors: 🌱 Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp ◎ Get 10% off Byrna product bundles and more! 🏥 Learn more about Christian Healthcare Ministries 🏡 Get started today with Churchill Mortgage 🔒 Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe 🏦 Go to FAIRWINDS Credit Union for an exclusive account bundle! 🥗 Save 15% on your first Field of Greens order with code RAMSEY ⛨ Find top Health Insurance Plans at Health Trust Financial 💸 To find out more about student loan refinancing, check out Laurel Road 💻 Visit NetSuite today to learn more 🗂️ Use promo code RAMSEY for 18% off at The Nokbox 💵 Learn more about Timothy Plan 🏛 Get started with YRefy or call 844-2-RAMSEY 🔐 Visit Zander Insurance for your free instant quote today! Next Steps 📱 Watch the full episode for free in the Ramsey Network app. 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET or click here! 💼 Need help with your taxes? See who we trust. ❤️ Get away with your spouse in Nashville 💵 Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app! 🛒 Preorder Build a Business You Love Now at Ramsey Solutions 💪 Invest with confidence! Get tickets to Investing Essentials 🎟️ Get Tickets to the Money & Relationships Tour 🪑 Check out Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman! Listen to more from Ramsey Network 🎙️ The Ramsey Show   🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 💰 George Kamel 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Open phones here at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Number one best-selling author Ramsey personality, George Campbell is my co-host today. Open phones here again. And here's what we do with you folks. We take your calls and we have no idea what you're gonna ask except what you told Christian our phone screener. Well we don't set up these calls. We don't make them up. The truth is George, we don't have to make them up because some of you and some of the people in your life are

so freaking crazy that it makes entertainment in and of itself just real life. We couldn't even make up some of this stuff. No, much like news and politics the reality is actually more entertaining than anything you could write or dream up. There you go. So that's what this show is. I mean fiction is harder to write. Exactly. So we just take it as we see it. So we're here to help you, all kidding aside, regardless if you've done something dumb, because if you've done something dumb, that makes you human.

I've done a lot dumb. As a matter of fact, I've got a PhD in DUMB. I'm not proud of it, but it is the degree I have. And so we're here to help you not live in the land of broke due to decisions that you made when you weren't thinking straight again triple eight eight two five five two two five thank

you for being with us America we're glad you're here mark is in Columbus Ohio if I push the right button there's mark hey mark how are you I'm doing well so how are you better than I deserve what's up in your world

hey sir I've been looking at you guys Well, sir, how are you better than I deserve? What's up in your world? I've been listening to you guys every morning. Um, on my way to work on the satellite radio, my car, and, um, I just, I got into a mess here. I make about 125,000 a year. And I'm last year I made 125 and then I got a bonus of like 70,000 last year too and and then right now I don't have anything in my savings I don't have anything in my checkings I'm broke I'm paying my very minimums on my credit card got about 27 credit cards I paid a minimum and it's like every day I'm paying a minimum on

one of those cards and it's like I miss a card one one month you know I forgot I had one so I might need my calendar so every day my calendar is filled with a minimum payment that I got to pay to a credit card company. How much do you owe in credit card? How much is the credit card debt total? About twelve thousand. Okay, you made two hundred thousand dollars with your bonus. What did you do with it? Uh... I don't know.

I really don't know. I don't know. I'm trying to figure out. That's what I'm trying to figure out. If we look at your bank statement and saw where all this money went, where do the top few things we would see? Food, eating out, grocery store. No one spends 10 grand a month at the grocery store though. What are your vices? Buying things, buying too many things I guess. What did you buy?

What's the most expensive thing you bought last year? Riding a lawn mower. Okay, what did it cost? Four grand. Okay. That's a lot of money. I used it twice. Are you sports betting? No sports betting. No sports betting. I don't do any sports betting. You're doing drugs? Marijuana, if that's considered, you know, just self-medicating, just trying to get out of debt. You know, maybe that. Okay. I'm just trying to find the money.

I'm not throwing grenades. I'm just trying to find the money I'm not throwing grenades I'm just trying to find the money because a four thousand dollar lawnmower I still got 196 000 left so it wasn't like you bought a 50 000 or something that you can put your fingers on so I'm still trying to find like George said where the money went all right so all right first let's establish that you're not having fun. You said that And we need to get back to Being on top of this mess instead of this mess being on top of you. Is that a good goal? Yes, sir Yes, sir. Okay. Have you are if you got the credit cards near you right now? No, I don't I just I don't't know. I just... Where are they? Where are they? They're at home.

Okay, when you get home tonight, I want you to get scissors and light a candle and have a plasectomy party and chop them all up. Every one of them. Okay. Yes, sir. I'm okay. Yes sir. Why wouldn't you do that? I mean I hear you say it all the time, cut them up. I mean so what you mean, like literally cut them up? Yeah, literally get scissors out, light a candle and chop every one of the stinking things up. They've stolen your life from you. Shoot them in the face. Yeah. How old

are you Mark? 52. How long you been living like this? The last two years. Yeah. I think there's nothing here fun. So the first thing we're going to do is stop the bleeding. No more use of credit cards and no more credit cards. That's step one. Step two is we're going to do a written detailed budget and make a hundred and twenty thousand plus bonuses, behave and we're going to write it down what we're going to do with it

before the month begins and if it's not on the budget you don't do it. So you're not eating out, you're not traveling, you're not doing drugs, you're not doing anything. You don't have any money, you're a broke guy. And so broke people buy food, lights and water and they pay their rent and they throw everything else at the debt. And that's what you're going to do. You're going to get real focused, like your life depended on it. Because it does, my man. You won't need pot because you don't need to medicate when you're in control again. When you're attacking this instead of it attacking you is what I'm talking about.

You feel that emotion? What was that sir? I said when you're attacking this mess instead of this mess attacking you, there's a growl in that. Do you feel that emotion? Yes sir. Alright, this is time to throw the shoulders back and knock the crap out of some stuff. Hit it.

Hit it hard. Like it's threatening your family. Like it's threatening someone you love. Because it is. I love you and it's threatening someone you love because it is I love you and it's threatening you you need to put a stop to this crap and Hit it hard and that involves stopping everything that money's going out to and start throwing it all at the credit cards The great news is you could be out of credit card debt and just a couple of months

You'd be a hundred percent free of credit cards, but the credit cards really aren't your problem, because you only owe 12 grand. What's the problem is, is you have no idea where a lot of money is going. It's almost like you're in Congress. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Do you have other debt, Mark? You know, like, huh? Do you have other debts other than the credit cards? I have a I have a vehicle 18 000. I bought you know bought, you know, one of those car vending machines online And uh, have you got a girlfriend you've been helping? No, just helping my my you know, my uh, my wife i'm separated from you know helping her and the kids

Okay, how much money you throw in that direction? Probably through maybe like 15,000 that direction 15. Yeah, I think you throw in more than that And you don't realize it because you're wanting to be a good guy Because you are a good guy. I want you to help your kids. Okay. I don't care about your ex. She's your ex That's how that works. Okay, if she's not your ex, you take care of her, but until she's your ex, you take care of your babies. And you're very careful and very wise about that. Hang on, we're going to get you set up with every dollar and get you going on a budget, brother.

Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance, or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're not going to die or something? Well, I used to be one of those guys, I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. And I immediately went and got term life insurance. That's a gut punch. For decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse.

They've lost somebody important to them. Me too. They don't know what to do next. You're going to have a crisis here. You know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow, she's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly the two options.

It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance, Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. George Campbell. Ramsey personality is my co-host today. If you're a business owner or you know someone who is, you know that running a business is hard. As I think back on the challenges of the last 30 or 40 years, I wish I'd had someone to walk me through how to do it the right way. Well, that's exactly why we wrote my new book, Build a Business You Love. We

want to share what we've learned over the last 30 years so business owners can grow faster, avoid common mistakes, and create something that they're proud of. We walk you through the five stages of business and the six drivers of business that drive you through the five stages of business. It is the baby steps for small business and you don't want to miss this. You can pre-order it right now. It comes out April the 15th but pre-order it now for $29.99. You get over $350 in free bonus items including instant access to the Entrez Leadership Hiring Playbook

where we have coached over 10,000 small businesses on hiring and firing. Early access to the eBook and the Enhanced Audiobook as well. So thanks for hanging out with us. And you can go to ramsysolutions.com slash store, get all of those deals or YouTube or podcast. Just click the link in the description and you're ready to rock and roll. David is with us in Lexington, Kentucky. Hi David. How are you?

I'm doing good. And how are you better than I deserve? What's up in your world? Well, I just, uh, lost my job and I feel like I pay way too much in rent. I don't know really what to do. Wow. Why did you lose your job? Being stupid. I slept in a lot.

You couldn't seem to get to work on time. Yeah, and I worked five feet away from where I slept. So you're work from home? Yes. Okay all right. What were you doing? I worked in a automotive BDC call center. Okay how'd you get that job? just applying around got found on LinkedIn. They messaged me. I was applying to everything and I found a job that was a mile up the road from my house. So they, the office is here, but I didn't have a car for the longest time.

So they let me work from home. What were you making? Uh, 12 an hour or so about let me work from home. Mm-hmm. What were you making? About 12 an hour, so about 24,000 a year. Well, bad news is you lost your job. The good news is you didn't lose much. Pretty much sucked as a job, agreed? Oh yeah, I was being berated for $24,000 a year. Yeah, I mean, you can make $20 an hour at Target.

Right? Do you have a car now? Yes. It's kind of a junker, but it can get me from A to B. Gets you from A to Target. Or Dick's Sporting Goods, or name it, I don't care. Almost any retailer's paying over 12 an hour retailers paying over 12 making it up right now And they're all short of help

What's your rent? 895 a month, okay, you live in the low and everything included. Yes. How old are you? 20 How old am I 24? Okay. All right right so you were doing uh auto loan collections is that what you were doing no service scheduling so whenever you needed an oil change or had a check engine light on I was the person you talked to so why were you getting berated how people when it comes to their car if it's not done now it's it's a problem. Huh okay. And these were places in New York and all that. I got you, it doesn't matter.

People are jerks everywhere I understand that it's not just New York but all Alright, so, um, alright, you lost a crummy job that doesn't pay much. Can we agree on that? Yes. Okay, but there's some shame on why you lost it because it was due to a lack of personal energy and diligence and so you're a little bit ashamed of that. Is that fair? Absolutely. Okay, alright. Because your voice has absolutely no energy in it and that's what I'm trying to figure out. It can't

be because you lost this crummy job. The job sucked, but it could be because you feel bad. Oh, I definitely feel bad. I mean... Okay. I'm not trying to pick on you. I'm just trying to... I'm trying to feed back to you what George and I are hearing on the other end because we want to love you well and help you get moving.

Because I don't want you going in for a job interview sounding like Eeyore. Do you know who Eeyore is? Yeah. Okay, yeah. I want a level of enthusiasm. I want you to get caffeinated before you go in, okay? Has it been like this your whole adult life, David?

Just kind of lack of purpose, no real spark, just kind of going through the motions? Or was there a time where you were lit up, fired up? I was definitely fired up when I worked. I was in a pretty nice job. I made just barely more than I made at the call center, but I was working for a giant manufacturing company. made just barely more than I made at the call center. But I was working for a giant manufacturing company. I don't know if you've heard of them, Linkville Grains.

But what do you wanna be doing, David? Have you ever taken a moment to think, here's where I wanna be five, 10 years from now, here's the kind of career field I wanna be in? I mean, I'd love automotive repair, but I don't know where to start. I can't save money to save my life I'm down to basically zero dollars yeah well you haven't made any money that's

part of the problem yeah when you're making $2,000 your take-home pays $1,500 and your rent's $895 you've not got any margin in this budget so I don't think you're horrible at money I just don't think you made any money so that's why George is poking around on the income side of your equation okay so I another issue is I've been applying for I mean I knew it was a terrible job I've been applying for about six months and nobody seems to want to take me okay that's probably because of the way you are applying not because it's a

personal thing like David is not worthy okay because honestly if you get up and brush your teeth and comb your hair and take a bath and you go down to Target or whoever down the street at the mall and start walking from store to store to store you and ask to speak to the manager and

have a little bit of sparkle in your eye, a little spring in your step and a firm handshake and a smile, you'll get hired by the end of the day, David, at $20 an hour. That stuff is out there. It is everywhere. Okay? And that might be a temporary stop. But you have to leave the house. You can't sit and apply by computer on LinkedIn.

That's just not gonna work. Let me give you an example of why. At Ramsey, we have about 1,100 folks at our company here. We took 15,000 job applications last year. We hired about, I don't know, 700 people, 600 people. No, no, we didn't hire that many. 400 people. Anyway, nothing out of 15,000, right? So how did those 400 get out of that stack of 15,000? It wasn't by email email and it wasn't through LinkedIn. They did something that got them in the door and one of the things they did is what King Coleman calls the proximity principle. So you have to stand up and

leave the apartment every day at 8 a.m. dressed and ready for work, smiling, teeth brushed and hair combed until you get a job in the next three days and in the next three days if you do that leaving at 8 a.m. go go talk to people in the auto repair business, go talk to people in these big box stores, go talk to anyone that will talk to you about hiring you and be nice and kind and show up on time and never be late the rest of your life. Learn that lesson. The bad news is you had to learn it. The good news is be late the rest of your life. Learn that lesson. The bad news is you had to learn it. The good news is you got the rest of your life

to not relearn it. So, yeah, get out there and get it done, man. Now once you get that going, then we need to step up and do what George was talking about and start dreaming about what we wanna be. I don't want you to be in auto repair. I want you to own 17 auto repair centers and be worth $8 million dollars 20 years from today.

But you gotta decide I'm gonna aim at that and I'm gonna go do what it takes and scrap and claw to get that done. And that requires energy and enthusiasm and believing you can do it. Hang on I'm gonna send you a copy of Ken's book, The Proximity Principle, and another one, Find the Work You're Wired to Do, that has an assessment in it, that will help you start dreaming big. But in the meantime, go get some eating money, today! This is The Ramsey Show. You shouldn't own a gun, you're not willing to shoot. In moments of self-defense, a Berna launcher lets you protect yourself in a non-lethal way. That's exactly why Berna launchers were created.

Everyone, from parents and nurses to pastors and even special forces veterans, rely on Berna to protect themselves and their families. I own several Berna's myself. They look like guns, but they're not. They shoot a 68 caliber round kinetic or chemical irritant projectile that can disable a threat from up to 60 feet away. And they're powered by compressed co2 cartridges, so they're classified with paintball and airsoft guns, but they're more powerful than those for increased protection. Not to mention,

Berna launchers are legal in all 50 states with no permits required, and because they're not firearms, they can be shipped directly to your door. Plus, Ramsey fans can get 10% off an exclusive bundle which includes a Berna pistol, CO2 cartridges and ammo and other Berna products like safety alarms, defense sprays and body armor are also 10% off for our listeners. Just go to Berna.com slash Dave to learn more that's B-Y-R-N-NA.com slash Dave. George Campbell Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Number one best-selling author. We're here to talk to you and help you with

your life and your money in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions which you're more than welcome to drop by anytime and watch the show. We do it live from one to four and we do the show on the glass so you can watch it happen every weekday so come by and hang out with us in the lobby is the debt-free stage and Lex and Sarah are standing on it which can mean only good news for Lex and Sarah that they're debt-free welcome guys hello where do you guys live from Cleveland Ohio area awesome well welcome to Nashville we had a snow just in time to make you feel at home.

Yeah, you guys have a little bit of a different definition of a snowstorm than we do. You don't think one inch is a blizzard? What? It's all good, yep. Yeah, there's no milk in the grocery store, I'll just tell ya, because everybody thinks they're gonna be inside

for the next eight weeks because we had one inch. So how much debt did you guys pay off? About $260,000. I love it! How long did that take? About five and a half years. Wow, good for you. And your range of income during that time?

Which is we went from probably 80,000 to about 150. Cool, what do y'all do for a living? I'm a physical therapist. I work in customer service at a chemical company. Okay, excellent. Cool. Five and a half years. Did you pay off your house? No. No. No. What was the physical therapy? There you go. Hello. 260,000. You got 150 in student loan debt, right? You are pretty much right there. Okay.

Alright. Wow. So, yep, all student loans. Okay, most of the 260 was student loans. All of it. All of it between the two of you. Yes. Whoa! Yep. Yeah, we paid down about four grand. She had four grand in credit card debt when I met her.

Yeah. We got that taken care of before we got married and then did financial peace university. Yep. Wow. So you've been married about six years? Seven. Yeah. And the first thing you had to do is climb a mountain of 260,000? Yeah we called it our first mortgage. So. That'll do it. Now the mortgage is going to seem like a piece of cake. Yeah it's not so scary now. You mean that

house only cost that? Oh my gosh. Not so bad. We can do that. We've done that before. Wow. Good for y'all man. That's amazing. So how did you end up in Financial Peace University as newlyweds? So my mom actually got it for us for Christmas. Joyful from the mother-in-law. 2018. Yeah. I taught financial literacy down in Cincinnati for a couple years. So I was familiar with your books because one of the local banks supplied us with a bunch of supplies, financial piece stuff that I was teaching to eighth graders.

So I was familiar with it. Okay, very cool. And then you said maybe I should do it. Yeah. That would be cool. Yeah, so Sarah, when he comes in you go, okay, this is how we're gonna do this. What'd you say?

Well, I mean, he had mentioned it multiple times before, but I feel like, you know, I hear a lot of people say, like kind of, I was a had mentioned it multiple times before but I feel like you know I hear a lot of people say like kind of I was a little Dave ish like I wanted to Oh, I went to school for so long. I deserve to live my life and all that kind of stuff and then You know I had that moment where I sat down and added up all the loans and I'm doing income-based repayment and the interest is just Making the total number go up and up. And you're gonna be 84 when you get out.

Yeah, and like this absolutely ridiculous, so I got mad at it, we got the course, and just kinda took it from there. Anger plus information, that's what you needed. Yeah, good combo. That's a good formula. That's a good combo. It really is, it's legit.

And we came back after the first class, and she cut up the credit cards, and that was it. She ran business. That's legit. And we came back after the first class and she cut up the credit cards and that was it. She ran business. Yep, absolutely. Game on, okay. That's a great way to start a marriage, to be on the same page and have a villain to fight. I mean, the dragon must be slayed

and we're going to do it together. Absolutely. Yeah, we're going on a quest here, a journey. Well done, y'all. Man, that's amazing. That's a long time. Yes, yeah's amazing. That's a long time. Yeah. Yeah.

Five and a half years. Yeah. How did you stay with it for five and a half years? You know, I always say that anger, and I feel like I put a lot of the blame, I guess, on myself and the responsibility of it, of not wanting to run from it and just owning it, that like I made this decision to like take this money out and I wanted it gone from my life. You know, we faced a lot of life along the way too. You know, you start

this process and then a year later, there's a global pandemic, you know. Oh yeah. So, you know, we faced job loss, we faced. Wheels literally falling off our cars. Yeah, we replaced three vehicles. That's why I was saying we should have added up how much we cash flowed during this time too,

like the amount of money between three cars. We were blessed with, you know, we had grew our family, we had two kids. So just all of these things, like, you know, we were so fortunate to be able to keep like our four walls during this whole time. But there was a lot of stuff that slowed it down and did kind of feel like a mountain that was really hard to climb. But I leaned a lot on our faith. I had been absent from the church quite a bit before we got married. So we leaned into that and that support group and knowing that sometimes your problems lead

to the goodness at the end, I guess. That's beautiful. So what was the hardest sacrifice lifestyle-wise you guys had to make for that period of time? So I grew up, my dad has the same rake that he had before I was born. So for me, the money part of the problem wasn't an issue. I think there was just a lot of pressure from friends and family, not even intentionally in a bad way, but just like, oh, she does home health.

Like, you need a nicer car. Like, just take out a loan. So just fighting that kind of stuff was difficult. I think just resisting like the normal of what people find to be normal, you know? Like where, like the vehicles is a good example, I think, and just like how you want to make upgrades to the home or Buy newer nicer things or like with the kids like they need this or that

Those those kids don't need anything besides like to be loved right, you know They don't care that they're just sleeping in a crib that I got a Facebook marketplace So I think like just just like those things, like really like, knowing that we had everything we needed and most of what we wanted, I think. You redefined the word need in your household. Yes, yeah, I think, you know. It's huge.

Yeah, yeah, a lot of just giving up the wants, I think. Yeah, we've often taught that contentment is the most powerful financial principle and you were functioning in that's what you're saying. Yeah. We just don't have a very big, I'm sorry, we just don't have a very big material chase. Material things are not, I mean they're important,

but they're not what drives us. Yeah. That was an advantage through this and it helped you get through it. It's a superpower to not care what other people think. It's tough. It's tough. No, it's not easy. Especially when It's a superpower to not care what other people think. No it's not easy. Especially when it's the people you care about. Yeah, yeah. Well way to go young. That's amazing because really what happened is you get married, you have a couple kids,

you go through several cars, you climb this mountain, you re-engage your spiritual life, you dive in deep. There's a whole lot of personal growth is happening here in the six years I mean you're not even the same people you are when you start talking about this. Yeah, it's pretty incredible Y'all y'all are impressive. Very cool. Thank you. Thank you very powerful. You guys helped a lot along the way Yeah, I was just sitting here. Yeah, but yeah George George made my instrument. Yeah Way to go y'all very very proud of you. Who was bragging on you on the way? Well, I mean, I think everybody was really supportive. Our family, our friends, coworkers. So, there's a lot of people,

I hope we kind of watch in tears on today back at home. I want to say hi to our kids, Finley and Max. They're with grandma and grandpa and we get to- That's where they should be. Be away from them for the first time, really, since they were born. I see why you wanted to travel to Nashville. Welcome to Nashville!

Yeah, I like it, good, good. Hey, what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is now that you've paid off $260,000 in five and a half years. Just to know the difference between your needs and your wants. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's the biggest thing is just finding that contentment and knowing that like, you know, we're just so blessed with the things that we have.

You did it. I'm proud of you. Well done. Lex and Sarah, Cleveland, Ohio. $260,000 paid off in five and a half years. Making $80,000 to $150,000. They did it. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Wow!

Wow! 260,000, the same number of times Biden said he was gonna forgive it. That's right. And they decided. And they decided, yeah, let's not wait around for that to happen, because it didn't. Yeah, didn't, didn't.

Oh man. Oh, there's that, it didn't. This is the Ramsey Show. You know how when you go against what society thinks is quote normal like avoiding debt it feels weird at first? Well I'm here to tell you that is okay. I want you to be weird if that means you're being intentional including how you budget. And one way to be intentional about how you spend your health care dollars is with Christian health care ministries. CHM isn't health insurance.

They're a biblically-based alternative. CHM is a health cost-sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families take care of health care costs without sacrificing their freedom. As a CHM member, you'll share 100% of your eligible health care costs with a dedicated Christian community. And in return, your monthly contribution goes towards other members' medical costs. So no matter where you are in your financial journey, CHM can help you reach your money goals and still get the care you need. Plus, programs start as low as $98 a month. So go to chministries.org Plus, programs start as low as $98 a month. So go to chministries.org slash budget to find out more.

That's chministries.org slash budget. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. George Campbell Ramsey personality is my co-host. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Well, as predicted by the Ramsey team and me and George, the real estate market is beginning to fall as the snow thaws and I mean we told you in November after the election that probably what would happen would not be instantaneous and that gradually the

market would begin to heal as springtime came around. So we're we are seeing in the real estate market an uptick in activity. We are seeing interest rates down very slightly just a little bit and nothing, no big dramatic anything in the real estate world. There's no sudden supply. There's still a shortage.

There's no huge drop in interest rates instantaneous, which didn't expect to have happen. I didn't anyway. And so the real estate market is starting to move again. And so the you know the thing we've told you for 30 years is still true that when it comes to buying a house, a home for your family, real estate's a great investment when bought properly and at the right time in your plan.

And what happens at your house, in other words, what happens in your house, in other words what happens in your house is more important than what happens in the White House. And so Donald Trump's not gonna buy you a house, Joe Biden didn't buy you a house. It's not their job, either one of them. And it's your job to buy a house after you get out of debt, have an emergency fund, and when you can afford the payment on a fourth of your take-home pay on a 15-year fixed rate. And that's very doable once you get your crap together. But you know, there's people worried about tariffs driving construction costs up.

There's people thinking that the government's going to get in the housing business and drive supply up, which will bring prices down. Not going to happen. Tariffs aren't going to drive construction costs up, not appreciably, even if there are tariffs and there aren't any yet. Hello. Basically, the White House has a lot less effect on the housing market than you think they do.

Well, no, but the effect they do have is, and they are starting to have that effect, is to make people believe again so the economy starts moving. And when people are hopeful, they purchase things, they invest. They get off the side. When they are hopeful. And if you believe, whether you're Democrat or Republican, if you believe the economy is going to get better, you will make moves that make the economy better. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. And housing is one of the elements of that. And I do think that's going to happen. And I'm not going to give President Trump the credit for having grown the economy.

I'm going to say the American public grew the economy. But it is if he gave them hope and caused them to do that, with, you know, cutting spending in which they're obviously doing too pretty rapidly and pretty wildly it's kind of fun to watch for a guy who likes to cut spending I mean I'm in hog heaven right so you know that's a good thing and and I know it's your grandmother's program or whatever they cut and some of your pissed, but I really don't care cut spending and

You've been spending more than you make like some kind of drunken congressman So that's wonderful and if that kind of thing gives people hope and If he puts pressure on the Fed and causes interest rates to go down that gives you hope and causes you to go into the marketplace the real estate market is going to take off, so I am predicting a a healthy, good, functioning real estate market again by fall. I don't think it's going to be a boomer bust thing like it was after COVID. It was crazy. But I think it's going to get moving again,

and it's been very stagnant. What do you think? Yeah, it's definitely been crawling, and I think it's going to take longer than we all want it to and so for those folks who've been sitting on the sidelines waiting for something drastic to happen, quit waiting. If you're ready to buy a house, like you said, don't time the market, time your own financial life and go, now is the right time for us to buy. This is the time to buy. I'm looking at several pieces of real estate right now and I'm not doing that because Trump's in office. I was doing it before he was in office and I will keep looking, but I'm only going to do the deal in office. I was doing it before he was in office. And I will keep looking.

But I'm only going to do the deal when the deal is right. And it fits in our parameters on how we do real estate. And you're paying cash. And for those folks that are, you know, they're taking on the mortgage, Dave, and they're going, well, Dave, the rates are so high. What do you say to them about the rates? You marry the house and you date the rate.

So when it does dip down? You just refinance. You know, it's not that hard. Just don't, you know, don't buy too much house and don't be crazy, but your interest rate, if interest rates go back down to three, and I don't know if they will or not, I never thought they'd be there to start with, so what do I know? But anyway, if they do go down, it's not that big a problem, just refinance. And you have a little bit of cost, and within you know 18-24 months you'll get your money back and you'll be rocking along making the

better rate then after that so don't let that keep you out of the market if you're waiting on rates to come down that's dumb because as soon as they go down you're going to see some stimulation in house prices they're going to offset them going up so you know go ahead and get in and disappoint when your time But you need to be out of debt. You need to have an emergency fund in place of three to six months of expenses, debt free. And you, you know, with a good, strong down payment, we'd like to see if you're not a first time home buyer, it should be at least 20% down because you can avoid PMI,

which is private mortgage insurance, which is about seventy five dollars a month per hundred thousand borrowed. It adds up. So I mean if you borrow like four hundred thousand bucks that's three hundred bucks a month that you're paying for insurance for the mortgage company to ensure them in case they foreclose on you. That's what PMI is. It's a risky buyer fee. It's a risky buyer fee because you didn't put down 20% That's a good line George. Thank you I worked hard on you. That's what PMI is. It's a risky buyer fee. It's a risky buyer fee because you didn't put down 20%. That's a good line George. Thank you. I worked hard on that. Yeah, because I mean I've been doing this 30 years. I never came up with that. That's pretty good. That's

a win. But there we go. And so that, but if you don't put down 20% and you still buy, we're okay. We're not mad at you. We're just saying you could save a lot of money if you did put down. So a good down payment where your house payment on a 15-year fixed is no more than a fourth of your take-home pay and your take-home pay is not after insurance and 401k your take-home pays after taxes what are you taking home after taxes that's the number we're talking about so I'm not talking about your check I'm talking about what your that's called take-home pay it's not your your check is different than take-home pay so you got health insurance premiums and the 401k. That's not in the mix okay.

So but anyway yeah because you need to be able to cash flow this thing and get it paid off and move along to the next step of wealth building. But real estate is good. It's not horrible right now. It's not booming, but it's definitely not horrible. It is way better than it was four months ago. Way better. I mean, I've got a couple properties on the market that zero people were looking at, and now people are in there every week and every day looking at them. And so, I mean, worse, I'm actually seeing activity happen, you know, on those properties. And, and they're not rentals I

mean those are sales so it's happening real estate is moving again it's very very quiet about because also the stuff in the news and nobody's talking about real estate much but we are here because you talk about it at home and you're thinking about should I buy a house should I buy a house what happened is Trump gonna end the world no he's not gonna end the world and no he's not gonna make your life better by sending you money. It's not gonna happen. And I told you that was gonna happen. I told you that about Biden. So you guys gotta be grownups and go for your own destiny.

Yeah, quit waiting around. Regardless of what's happening in the economy, you can affect it a lot more than anyone else. So we've got a lot of resources too, Dave. Our team built a real estate hub with tons of resources, tools, calculators, articles, even a video course, ramsaysolutions.com slash real estate. And we'll be talking about real estate investing here soon. Yeah, we're going to do a second time renewing the investing essentials virtual event, March 4th and 5th. George and I are doing that.

Tickets are, that's a virtual event, tickets are 199 bucks. You can get your tickets at RamseySolutions.com. It's two nights. The first night is two hours on investing and investing philosophies. The second night is two hours and most of it is on details on how to do investment analysis real estate, real estate investment analysis. Using real examples from your portfolio. I'm gonna go through, I'm gonna open my playbook. It's only the second time I've ever done that and I did it this time last year and it was a big hit So they talked me into it again stuff You've never talked about on the show because you're like this is too nerdy

It is people can I gotta tell you the whole stinkin night. These two nights are both nerdy So if if you're having trouble sleeping, you know, we can help you with that Okay, but if you're a super nerd, you're going to love this stuff. If you're really into investing, oh, we're going to give, we're going to give you the meat and potatoes, baby. George George, some meat on the bones. George George is a super nerd. I'm just saying he can do it. Love it. Can't wait. March 4th and 5th at RamseySolutions.com slash events, the investing essentials virtual the Investing Essentials virtual event. This is the Ramsey Show. People tell me about their experiences with big banks all the time.

Bad service, fees that nickel and dime them to death, and predatory lending that tries to catch them in never-ending cycles of debt. So if you're ready for a bank that puts people over profits, check out Fairwinds Credit Union. I recommend Fairwinds because they share our Ramsey values of helping people get out of debt and live generously. If you go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey, you'll see the combined checking and savings account bundle they created just for Ramsey fans. This account bundle is designed to help you take control of your finances and stay out of debt. And Fairwinds also has a great mobile app that's safe and secure so you can manage your transactions with peace of mind.

Fairwinds has been helping people avoid big bank traps for 75 years. So go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to learn more. It's easy to join no matter where you live. That's F-A-I-R-W-I-N-D-S dot org slash Ramsey. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, George Campbell. Ramsey personality is my co-host today.

Thanks for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Charlotte is in Richmond, Virginia. Hey Charlotte, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, thank you so much for seeking with me. Sure, what's up? Well, my husband and I have a home that his parents are about to move into in a few months, and we want some advice as to whether it's better for them to just be deeded the house, or if we do have them just pay us the mortgage amount, what should we put in a contract just to keep our family relationship healthy but keep everything legal and just secure. Wow. Well, the reason you're calling is because you know you're skating on thin ice

asking for trouble. And you're asking how to avoid falling through the ice and the best way is don't skate on thin ice. Don't do the deal this way. Why aren't they getting a mortgage and buying it from you? We all, we're kind of doing a house shift. His sister's coming from a very expensive part of Washington, D.C. and she will move into the parents' home and be deeded their house and the parents will move into our smaller home and downsize. And all of the mortgages are so cheap because the homes were purchased years ago compared

to refinancing and adding about a hundred to a thousand dollars, well hundreds or thousands of dollars more. Wait a minute, the sister gets a free house, the parents get your house free, what are you getting? We, my husband and I have two homes. When we got married we both brought a house into the marriage. So this would be the house that we've just had renters in. I know, you missed my point. You're giving the parents a free house. They're giving their

other daughter a free house. What are you getting? That's why I'm calling. Nothing. Okay. So I'm confused why we're doing this. This is going to cause resentment real quick. This is not a house swap. This is a sister got a house, they got a house and you didn't. That's different. So all right.

So you want them to move into the house and pay you for the house. Is that right? Yes, and they're fine with that okay why don't they get a mortgage and just take the house but pay you with the more pay like like a normal buyer of a house would do and just pay you and you sell them the house okay I'm writing everything down well I mean I'm asking is there a reason you all hadn't done? Cause that's kind of the obvious way to do it. What's the price you would sell it to them for?

That's the issue where we are. The home would go for 3 80 and we only owe one 90. Um, but I am aware that if they purchased it at the market value right now, we have a, I think it's an $1,100 mortgage on that house and it probably knocked them all the way up to 1800, if not more. Yeah. So that's,

and you're saying that's too much. If they're going to buy a $380,000 house, they're going to have a mortgage amount that they pay. What's wrong with that? They can't afford it. Oh, they can. I guess we just want to, we want to be a blessing to family and not make anybody have to pay you know 800 plus more a month if we already have the homes in our name. Well you can't transfer the deed with that mortgage in place. That mortgage that you have is not going to survive this deal. Okay. There's a due on sale clause in the deed. Would it be better than just to have the contract for a renter? No, it would be

better if they went and got a mortgage and bought the house from you. If you want to discount the house to be a blessing, instead of selling it for $380, sell it for $300, I'm fine if you choose to do that. I'm still confused why you need to do that. But if you want to do that, and that's what you want to do, just sell them the house a little cheaper and let them go get a mortgage and hand you a check. Okay.

If they buy it for $300 and you owe $190, they're gonna hand you a $110,000 check, right? Right, right. And that's a deal. I'm making up the number. I don't know what the number is, but I don't care what you sell it to them for. And they're giving a deal to your husband's sister, right? Mm-hmm. Okay. And so really, and then you give them a deal. So really the truth of the matter is when all the smoke clears,

you actually gave your husband's sister a deal. Yeah. If you trace it back. Yeah, because you didn't use, they didn't use, because they're getting a deal on your house and that enabled them to give the deal over there. So it's much like you did it for the sister instead of for them.

So I don't know, I don't know what you want to do I would not have them pay you a monthly rent and I would not have them pay you a mortgage And I wouldn't do it for free because now you're actively losing money every month because you still have to make your mortgage payment Right. We wouldn't do it for free. They would cover what we would owe monthly. We just want to make sure there's no legal repercussions and we definitely don't want to do a handshake deal. We want to have a contract. I would not have a contract because, all right, let's talk about it. I'll go one more step, okay? There's two or three principles going on. One, there's a legal principle. If you do what's called a contract for deed and they move into the house and start

acting like the owner of the house you've had what's called equity of title has transferred and the due on sale clause in your mortgage can activate and your mortgage company could foreclose on you so don't do that don't do that okay and if they move in and just start renting from you, then they don't own the house and they're at risk. And you gotta figure out some kind of a deal someday when the house goes way up in value. Who gets that money? Them or you? I wouldn't get into all that. I would simply sell them the house at a

price and let them go get a mortgage, pay off the mortgage that you have, put the difference in your pocket and they still got a deal. And then they have a mortgage payment and it's their problem just like it is today. Today they own a house, you're not involved in that house, right? That's the way it should be. That's the legal side of this now, then the other side of it is the emotional and relational side The borrower is slave to the lender when you eat dinner with someone you owe money to it tastes different

Mm-hmm because it messes up relationships and no contract in the world makes that go away. That's a spiritual principle, a philosophical principle. So please don't do the deals you're talking about doing. Your family is going to end up harmed, you're going to end up harmed, people are going to end up not liking each other. It's not a good idea. So just pick a price. If it's worth $3.80, we're going to sell it to you at a discount of X. Let them go get a mortgage for X. And if they don't want to pay off your current mortgage, and if they don't want to do that, then you really don't need to do this deal for sure. You don't need to do it for sure anyway. This is the Ramsey Show.

need to do it for sure anyway. This is the Ramsey Show. Taking care of your health doesn't have to cost a fortune. That's why Field of Greens is in my house. Field of Greens is made from fruits and veggies selected by doctors to support your heart, liver, kidneys, and metabolism. And here's the best part, they're so confident your doctor will notice your improved health. They offer a money-back guarantee No questions asked try today and get 15% off at field of greens Dot-com slash Ramsey promo code Ramsey field of greens dot-com slash Ramsey Okay, picture this you sit down to do your taxes But instead of stressing out you're actually ahead of the game and filing with an affordable software that makes your computer shoot confetti when you're done. Okay, not

that last part, but Ramsey Smart Tax does make filing easy and doesn't make your bank account cry. Ramsey Smart Tax is a hundred percent accurate software that's honest about its pricing and is backed by a company who's been in the business for over 50 years. So go to ramseysolutions.com slash smart tax to take advantage of early bird pricing and stress-free filing. That's ramsysolutions.com slash smart tax. George Campbell, Ramsey Personality is my co-host. Our question of the day is brought to you by Wirefy. If you're struggling with defaulted private student loans, Yreify offers a great solution to get you back on track. For a low fixed rate and more flexibility,

go to yreify.com slash Ramsey today. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Chase in Florida. My aunt recently reached out to me for advice since I'm considered the financially responsible one in the family. She's 37 and we come from a low income family. She worked at Tesla for six years and recently discovered that her old Tesla stock holdings

are now worth $650,000. I love it. That's great. She currently works as a project engineer earning $70,000 a year. Her monthly rent is only $1,000 and she has $20,000 in debt which will be paid off this year. She has retirement investments but no cash savings. She's hesitant to sell the stock because her goal is to let it reach a million dollars

before selling. She's also concerned about the tax implications if she sells. I've explained that this mindset borders on gambling, emphasizing the danger of investing in a single stock. If you were in her shoes, what would you do with $650,000 in Tesla's stock?" Wow. That's so fun. Yeah. What a great relationship that she comes to him with this big win and asks him what to do and he's saying, you've got too much risk here.

That's so cool. And he's spot on. He's so cool. I love this and I do agree. This does border on gambling waiting for your single stock to go up another 30 something percent so that you can cash out at the right time. Yeah.

That scares me. Yeah, you're gonna have taxes. Welcome to making money. Sorry, but that goes for the territory. Capital gains. But the good news is, you know, if you hold that asset for over a year, that would hit the long-term capital gains tax.

Exactly, and she's had it over a year. She's been there six years. Yeah. So her old Tesla stock, so we know it's over a year old, so it's gonna have long-term capital gains. So it'll be at a 15% rate, so it's not gonna be that bad. You're gonna pay probably 100 hundred grand out of this, something like that.

And that's if you cashed it all out at once. And you are. Today. And you are. So she could be debt-free today. I would. And be in a different place. 20,000 bucks and go buy a house. Yeah.

That's what I would do. She's 37 years old. She's a renter. She's a renter. She has 20,000 in debt. This would change her life to cash this out. Go buy a house. That actually goes up in value instead of potentially, who knows what's going to happen with Tesla.

They may continue to go up. Well, I'm not dissing Tesla, but I'm not buying it. If you're 37 years old and you have $650,000 in cash stacked in the middle of the kitchen table, what do you do with it? Would you invest in Tesla? Go buy Tesla stock? No. Go buy any single stock? No. Go buy a house? Yes. Now we're talking. Gonna go up in value and you have no

payments and you make 70 grand a year and now you're gonna have another million dollars in just a few minutes if you do this. Because now you can load your 401ks, your Roth IRAs, you can stack cash, you're gonna have zero debt and no house payment of any kind, no rent going out. And so that's a couple thousand bucks a month minimum and we're talking about putting maybe $5,000 a month away now and that's gonna to be a million dollars, another million dollars very quickly in a good mutual, series of mutual funds in your Roth

IRAs and 401Ks. So a hundred percent that's what I'm doing. Not even a hesitation. If you had and the way you can sometimes see the thing is when you own something sometimes it's hard to pry the fingers off of it. But if you just reset it in your mind and say there's a stack of cash in the middle of my kitchen table, what would I go buy Tesla stock with it? No! Would I go buy Apple stock with it? No! Both great companies, both probably going to go up. Still wouldn't buy, have all of my eggs in one basket. And I still would go buy a house. You're a 37 year old single lady, you own a home, cash paid for, guess what they're gonna do? They're gonna go up in value all the time. Pretty cool George. Pay the taxes. Oh yeah. People are so scared of paying

taxes. Well it's like a boogeyman, We don't know what it is. So just add it up and you go. Oh, that's what it is I was not happy to deal in yeah get with your tax probably probably 85,000 bucks or less and they'll go Here's what it is. You know, all right, I'll pay that out of the the proceeds and now you know It's almost like it's found money. Anyway, I recently discovered That's my old quite the thing to forget about kind of found money you know I mean so it's like and now I'm worried about giving up a look no don't because I again I am NOT predicting success less success or failure or I'm

not betting for or against Elon Musk as a business person none of that that's not the issue the issue is it's a single stock. If you had it all in Microsoft or Dell or Apple or McDonald's or Coca-Cola, I don't care what you... what you name some big stable company that's not brand new on the scene and not cutting-edge technology that's a little weird. You know, I mean name one of those and I'm still gonna tell you not to do it. So I don't do it. I don't have... I don't have $650,000 in a single stock and I got a lot more than $650,000. So I what if I thought it worked I'd be doing it you know so no. That's it I hope that

was clear Chase. I don't think Dave can be any more clear. Dave has a trouble with clarity. He sometimes has trouble telling people what he really thinks. Roberta is in Boston! Hey Roberta, what's up? Hi, thank you for taking my call. So my question is, I am a stay-at-home mom and I haven't worked in a long time. My husband and I, we are in debt and since I've been starting watching your content, I am just done with it. It's working. It is. So this year, I am being very intentional.

We have about $18,000 in credit card debt and his truck is about $45,000 every year. payments almost a grand amount. So yeah, so I just want to get those credit cards out of the way, get his credit better, maybe refinance the truck, get better interest, you know, and see the money because he makes okay, like he makes about $12,000 a month and we are just getting by. The money comes in, the money goes out, next month start from zero again. So since December, I haven't worked since 2013,

and I don't intend to work. He likes this, I do too. since 2013. Um, and I don't intend to work. He likes this. I do too. It works for our family, but I got a side gig, just helping a friend for a couple of months, you know, I'm making about $130 a week. And then I said, well, this is going to go towards credit cards. Cause we just going to bang these credit cards. I don't want to see these payments anymore.

And the money is just going into the account and disappearing with our normal bills, you know, and I'm getting very frustrated because I'm like, I'm, you know, I'm doing this. It's a little extra and it was supposed to get the credit card style. Anyway, being in that, um, also one of my huge goals was to go back to homeland to see my family. I haven't seen my family in about 16 years. So, and then we keep putting it off.

Where's home, Roberta? It's Brazil. I'm from Brazil. I was born and raised in Brazil. So, and then I moved here in 2008. Okay. And I haven't been back ever since. from Brazil. I was born and raised in Brazil so and then I moved here in 2008. I want you to take that trip and I want you to sell his truck and I want you to pay off your credit cards before you do it. And I want you guys to get on a budget and make your money behave. Because all you're doing is throwing all the money in a pile and then wondering why it burns. You're not making this money behave. He makes really

good money for you guys to be this broke. Doesn't he? She didn't like my answer. Just gone in a poof. Little puff of smoke there. But that's the truth. If you really want to go on this trip, what are you willing to do? What are you willing to give up? That might mean the truck gets sold yesterday, because that's a lot of truck. That'd get you out of debt real quick. Use your savings plus sell the truck.

You're out of debt this year. Ta-da. Almost like we've done this before. Book the trip by Christmas if you do it that way. But I think we found the problem. Don't know that he's going to want to get rid of that truck. That's the next job. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

Oh, this growing up thing. It's hard. This is The Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. You've probably heard people talk about different kinds of flags in friendships and romantic relationships. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. You've probably heard people talk about different kinds of flags in friendships and romantic relationships. You've probably heard people talk about different kinds of flags in friendships and romantic relationships.

Red flags, green flags, beige flags. Listen, it can be helpful to look for patterns or unsafe behaviors in potential relationships, but all those labels can distract from what's really important, your values, and whether you and your potential partner are willing to wake up every day and choose to honor each other's values. And look, I know it can be tough sometimes to even know what's important to you in a relationship. Therapy can help you figure out

what your values actually are and decide your boundaries and your non-negotiables. And if you're thinking about starting therapy, try BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy that works with your schedule. To get started, just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist.

If it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. So whether you're dating, married, building a friendship, or working on yourself, do it with help from BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Ramsey Radio to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E that Money in Marriage Getaway is back! Hang out with me and Rachel Cruz November 6-8 in Nashville, Tennessee.

You'll learn practical tools to better communicate, deepen your intimacy, and more. Plus, we'll dig into your questions with live Q&As. Early bird tickets start at $749, but hurry, prices are going up soon and this will sell out. Get yours at ramsysolutions.com slash events. George Campbell, Ramsey Personality is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. Matt and Kate are with us.

Hey guys, how are ya? Hey, good. Hi, we're doing great. Welcome, good to have you. Where do you live? Oh, sorry, north Indianapolis. Okay, fun. Welcome to Nashville. Good to have you. And how you live? Wait, oh sorry, North Indianapolis. Okay, fun, welcome to Nashville. Good to have you. And how much debt have you two paid off?

112,500. All right, way to go. And how long did this take? About 10 and a half months. 10 and a half months, wow. And your range of income during that time? 144,000 to 177,000. Nice jump in one year. Oh yeah. What do you guys do

for a living? I work for the United States Postal Service. And I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist. Awesome. Way to go guys. What kind of debt was the 113? Two auto loans and student debt loans. Ah, most of it student. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. The majority student. Yeah. yeah. Okay, wow. So how long you guys been married? 12 years. Yes. So after 11 years, you look up and say, something's gotta change.

That's about right. Yeah. And you run into us. Tell us the story. How did this all happen? Yeah, well in the summer of 2023, we just bought a new home and we were in the process of remodeling.

And thankfully he's really good at that. So things were going very smoothly. But he enjoys remodeling a lot more than I do. So I needed something to distract me as we were tearing up floors. And we talked a little bit about our finances and feeling like we needed to get things on track a little better.

And so I started listening to the Ramsey show as we were doing processing like work in the house. The old podcast sneakily room. Yes, it worked for us. You just low key brainwashed him into going, you don't need to do this debt thing, we make good money. Why are we paying these payments? That's right, yeah, I was like, you should listen to this.

And he had a little hesitation at first. He was working. He was working, exactly, he had a lot on his mind. But then once he started listening, he really got like motivated gazelle intent so fast. Oh yeah. I listened to the book on the way to work and then just got hooked and there was.

Within a couple of days we were on a car lot and he was trading in his Jeep Gladiator for a Chevy Sonic. Whoa. That's a big guy in a Sonic. Yes, yes. Or a Gami. I fit myself into it most days.

Makes a couple of folds. Yeah, that's a little bit. That's sacrifice right there. Oh yeah. Way to go, guys. You went from like no urgency to a thousand percent urgency. Yeah, way off the charts. But it's over in a blink of an eye, you're dead free.

Absolutely, a little bit of sacrifice for a little bit of time for such long-term gain. Oh yeah. Was it worth it? 100%, yes. I mean, you gave up the gladiator, whatever. Yes, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely it was, yeah. You did it fast, I mean.

You poured on the coals, that's pretty cool. So as a marriage family therapist, you just wish your clients would embrace the principles that quickly and with that intensity. Yeah, I mean that shared vision that we had, right? Like I've seen how important that is in marriages and us being able to unite on this was so strengthening for us too.

So I would love for people to be able to experience that in their marriage. I mean, if you told them to go do something and they did it with that kind of intensity is what I'm talking about. Oh, yeah, that's 100% true. And your heel. And do it.

Yes. And I assume now you have some great stories to share from being in the trenches and how this has helped your marriage and got you guys on the same page and you probably feel invincible now. You're like what area of our life can't we affect? Yeah and that's exactly what it is. It's just like, you know, we can't, we can do anything now.

It's very come at me bro mentality. Yeah, very much so, yeah. Wow. Good for you guys, well done. Thank you, thank you. How's it feel to be free? Amazing. Just, yeah. Good for you guys, well done. Thank you, thank you. How's it feel to be free? Amazing. Just, yeah, just amazing.

It just felt so like, you don't feel like how bogged down you are by the debt until it's gone. It's gone. What was the biggest sacrifice, the hardest thing? Getting rid of the gladiator? Yeah, that was probably it, yeah. Yeah, we had to lower our lifestyle, right? We hadn't even noticed how much

it had creeped up in some ways. And going from school pickup line in a Jeep Gladiator to a Chevy Sonic has a little bit of a different feel to it. Yeah, yeah, a little bit of a different feel, but. But none of those people in that line are paying your bills. Exactly, exactly. No, they're not, yeah.

I have to remind myself that. I'm like, hey, you know what? I don't need that payment. This car gets me A to B. Well, and you're sitting in that line looking and you're going, and, you know what? I don't need that payment. This car gets me an A to B. Well, and you're sitting in that line looking and you're going, and you got a payment. Yeah, you got a payment. Absolutely.

And you got a payment. Yeah, absolutely. You quit looking at cars the same. That's very true. I'm no longer impressed with you people. I feel sorry for you. Yes, yeah. It's very cool.

So you still have the Sonic? What's the game plan here? I just run it to the wheels, fall off. I travel for work a little bit. So I'm like, it gets great gas mileage. So I'm just gonna keep it and I'm like, hey, it's paid for. So.

And once it breaks down, you'll have the cash. Yeah, that's right. What a peaceful way to live. Oh yeah, yeah. That's amazing. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt? Just shared vision and goals. Is this, you gotta have the same goals to get through it.

Yeah, I would say like the Every Dollar app, like having that conversation every month about what we wanted our money to do and just being really united on that. And just like the vision of wanting this to be something that ripples beyond us to like our children, like us wanting to involve them, us wanting them to see the process process so hopefully they avoid the decisions we made. That made it really easy for us to feel that momentum. Yeah. So they weren't like damaged by the point. No. They're not, they don't need counseling themselves. I don't think so. We need a little shirt say I survived baby step two. There are actual Facebook groups of angry teenagers I'm just saying. The I hate Dave group or whatever. My parents went on this Dave Ramsey thing I don't have a life.

Thankfully we got them when they were younger so we avoided that. Well mom's a therapist so you can handle any trauma that comes your way. Bring it in house. I like it. Good for y'all. Well done. Proud of you. Who was cheering you on as you went? Just friends and family. Yeah, we had a small circle, but they were very vocal and that was amazing. We kept it pretty small because we wanted the voices

to be people who were encouraging us and the friends who were there alongside us made it just so helpful. Yeah, if you get the circle too big, you get a loud mouth in there. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, that's good, way to go guys, proud of you. All right, bring the kid too big, you get a loud mouth in there. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, that's good. Way to go, guys, proud of you.

All right, bring the kiddos up. Let's introduce them, names and ages. So this is Livy, she is nine, and this is Jane, she's seven. All right, beautiful. Hey, they look like they're okay. I believe they're gonna make it. I think so, I think they're good. Matter of fact, their mom and dad changed their family

to her, I'm pretty sure they're gonna make it. You guys are heroes, we're proud of you. Well thanks. It's an honor to meet you. Thank you for coming down to Nashville and sharing your story. Thank you. We got a couple of gifts for you.

We got two, every dollar subscription's good for a year, so you can use them, pass them along to someone else to give them some hope to do this journey too. When someone asks how you did this, you can show them. Here you go, here's the tool to do it. Matt and Kate, Livy and Jane, Indianapolis, Indiana. 113,000 paid off in 10 and a half months, making 144 to 177.

Count it down, let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah! 3, 2, 1, we're debt free! Yeah! That's awesomeness right there. I guess there is hope Dave. I've been reading the headlines, everything's so tough, inflation, and yet here's this couple who goes,

nah, we're going to do our own thing. Mic drop. It's just wild how that works. So you've been doing this 30 something years and there's been debt free screams every year, regardless of what's happening in the economy. Every week, every week for a long, long time. And you know, they did it in 10 and a half months. The other couple had 260,000 in a different hour,

five and a half years. So sometimes it's fast, sometimes it's slow. Sometimes they make a lot of money, sometimes, sometimes they make a lot of money, sometimes they don't make a lot of money. But in every case, they just looked up and said, I'm in control of my destiny and I'm not going to let these financial companies, student loans and cars and credit card companies and SoFi and whoever else control my life anymore. I'm not gonna be in control of some stupid bank. I work too hard to be this broke.

And it's fabulous, fabulous. And they're remodeling a house, scraping up some tile and turn on a podcast and go, okay, let's do it. And other people, we beat on them for 10 and go, okay, let's do it and Other people we beat on them for ten years and can't get them to do it takes a long time to get to that point Yeah, they just flip the switch when I'm not yeah, this is what we do. That makes sense. Let's do it. Let's do it That's simple. Let's do it and the faster you get to that inflection point the better off the rest of your life is gonna be Oh, absolutely do what it takes to get angry good. Yeah, that's how that works. Wow good work guys good work we're proud of you. This is The Ramsey Show. Running a business is freaking hard. It's easy to get caught up

in the daily challenges and fears that keep you stuck. That's why I want you to reserve your copy of our new book, Build a Business You Love, where we share the proven system that helped us break through those challenges and build Ramsey Solutions from a card table in my living room to a $250 million company in the process. When you pre-order today, you're gonna get more than $350 in bonuses for free,

including an enhanced audiobook experience, early access to the Build a Business You Love eBook, and instant access to our hiring playbook so you can start transforming your business right now. Build a Business You Love, the essential guide for every business owner like you that wants to grow yourself, lead your team, and scale your business. To reserve your copy, go to ramsysolutions.com slash store, ramsysolutions.com slash store. George Campbell Ramsey personality is my cohost today. Thanks for hanging out with us. Hey,

you don't want to miss our two night virtual event that George and I are doing. It's called investing essentials. Investing can be overwhelming, it can be confusing, and it's not something you can get in a 60 second social media post, or worse, a 30 second TikTok post. But at this virtual event, we're gonna walk you through details.

We're gonna nerd out how to maximize your 401k, your mutual funds, all investment types we're gonna talk through. We're going to nerd out how to maximize your 401k, your mutual funds, all investment types we're going to talk through. We're going to give you some principles for selecting good investments and avoiding bad ones. And then it's a two-night event, two hours each night. We're going to take emails from you. George and I will bounce back and forth between emails, between some teaching we're going to do, some discussions we're going to have. It's going to be really interactive and a lot of fun. The second night will be largely real estate. I'm going to open my real estate portfolio and my, at least some of the portfolio and my playbook. How do I do real

estate? And I bought and sold real estate for years. I own several hundred million dollars worth of real estate. So if you're interested in real estate investing, we're going to go into it at a different level than most people can and at a different level than you've ever seen me do. So I've only done this one other time. So check it out. Get your tickets today at ramsaysolutions.com slash events. Click the link in the show notes if you're on podcast or YouTube. The investing essentials event. It is coming up March 4th and 5th. And George, you've got some stuff you're adding to it that we didn't do last year. Yeah, we're gonna really get into the weeds

with choosing mutual funds, different investment traps. And on top of that, Dave, you know, we think about 199 bucks. If Dave Ramsey said, hey, I'll coach you up for essentially 50 bucks an hour. There would be a line out the door. So this is a great value to just really pick your brain when it comes to real estate. And I'll be the proxy for the audience.

Anytime I go, hey, Dave, you nerded out a little too hard, unpack that for us. So I'll be there to help translate a lot of the lingo for the people out there to go, this is the right way to do it from a guy who's actually done it. There we go. And a guy who's on his way. You know, I'm not hundreds of millions in real estate, but I do own from a guy who's actually done it. There we go. And a guy who's on his way, you know, I'm, I'm not, I'm not hundreds of millions in real estate, but I do own a single home. That's a win. That's a win.

Free and clear. That's right. So there you go. Shane is with us in Richmond, Virginia. Hi, Shane. Welcome to the Ramsey show. Hey, good afternoon guys. I had a quick question and hopefully you guys can be like the deciding factor in my family. I was wondering, I'm rolling pretty fast here, we're trying to kick down my debt and I was wondering, should I sell my car, use the proceeds, maybe get like a beater and then, you know, use the rest of the money, kind of pay off the last little bit of student debt that we

have? How much left do you have? We got about 5,600 left for this student debt. My car, I owe like 14 on it and I'm thinking I probably make between five and eight grand like private sale of my vehicle. Do you like the car? I mean it's a Tesla so I know George might be a little biased on this, but I, I, yeah, I enjoy the vehicle. I, um, you're selling it for five grand. That's all you could get for it. Well, well, I, that's what I would get off. Above the, that's the profit you'd make. You get 19. Yeah. Heck yeah. Um,

the, uh, okay. It, what's your household income? We make about $185. If you like the car, I would not sell it. You do not need to sell it to get out of debt. You're making the money to get out of debt. If you want to sell the car anyway, that's fine. But this is not a fire situation where you have too much car for your income or net worth.

You call me up making $70,000 owe 56k on your F-150, I'm selling your stupid truck. Okay? Okay. Cause that's out of control. But you owe $14,000 and you make 185. Stroke it man, pay it off. If you like the car, if you want to sell the car anyway and knock this stuff out, that's fine.

But do you need to sell the car to get out of debt no you do not you need to tighten your budget right yeah I mean my wife doesn't want me to and I me and my my little cute Frenchie over here is like sell it oh you got a French Bulldog too are we twins Shane you have a French Bulldog that talks keep that You get a pretty penny for a talking French bulldog. Keep that. That's valuable. Sell the dog. What are you making model in years, the Tesla? It's a 20 model 3, the long range dual motor all-wheel drive. Yeah, that's a great vehicle. And unless you have a severe change in income, I would just keep it and aggressively pay it off. You didn't say you hate the car, okay?

And the money does, the numbers you're giving us are not dictating selling the car. This is worth celebrating. Number one, Dave Ramsey didn't tell you to sell the car. Number two, he let you keep a Tesla. This will go down in history. I just said do what you want to do. That's all I said. It wasn't a recommendation.

Live your life. It wasn't a Tesla endorsement. Don't get all hoppy here. I got excited I'm gonna take a win when I get one. I know I saw it plugged in next to my truck outside So I'm just saying sorry about that Like to push your buttons I know why do you park next to me if you're the one who chose to put your parking space Next to the electric charging that's on you. Well, that's actually on the person who designed the building, which would be Rachel's husband. Okay. Ken is in Spokane, Washington. Hey Ken,

what's up? Well, hi Dave. First time caller. Thanks for taking my call. Our pleasure. How can we help? So my mom has a reverse mortgage. She is 91 years old, has been in the reverse mortgage for a long mortgage. She is 91 years old, has been in the reverse mortgage for a long time and so we are concerned as kids what our liability may be in the event when when it comes none basically we have to do deal with it zero zero

the only liabilities that it's a lien against the house you get ready sell the house the loan has to be paid off but so does a regular mortgage okay so I mean if she passes away and the kids sell the house they're gonna you're gonna pay off the loan as if you had a regular mortgage but there's a lien against the house but you personally don't have a debt and I'm hoping that the house is worth way more than the balance on the reverse. It's not supposed to go over 65% LTV. There's probably about 40 to 50,000 in equity in it right now. Okay. The loan is at about 250. Wow, that's creeped up. So the house has gone down in value. It's not done well. Okay. Well, it's, there's 17 years into the reverse mortgage. Yeah, but it's still not supposed to be, it still

shouldn't be over 65% loan to value if it's structured right. But anyway, it is obviously, but yeah, so you would sell the house and put 40,000 bucks in the heirs pocket and pay off the reverse. If the house doesn't get sold and it gets foreclosed on, none of you are liable, but you would lose the house. Right.

That the heirs, the estate would lose the house. Just less and less to inherit as time goes on. So that's really what you're looking at here, but you're not liable unless your name's on that mortgage. Did any of you sign for it? No, none of us did. Okay, then what we told you is correct. You're not liable for someone else's debt,

even if they're kin to you, period. The only exception would be a husband or a wife, and in some cases there's some common law in some states. But if your parents out there, if you folks listening, your parents pass away and they've got $2 million worth of debt, unless you signed for it, you're not liable. Those people are just not going to get paid. The burden falls onto the estate of that person.

When you die, your estate is what you own minus what you owe. And if there's not enough to pay what you owe with what you own, the bank shouldn't have made that loan and they're going to lose their money. Because the heirs, the children, the grandchildren are not liable in America. Period. That's simple. Now, in the 60 seconds that we have, reverse mortgages suck if a financial product is being sold between snuggies and walk-in bathtubs you're watching a TV show that is catering to elderly people and they're selling

you crap like gold and like stupid reverse mortgages with washed up actors that are ancient. They're older than the person they're trying to sell it to. And so sorry for the insult to my... I have great admiration for Magnum PI, but no, don't do it. Don't do it. Don't buy a reverse mortgage. It is one of the worst financial products on the market today. Period. Under no circumstances do a reverse mortgage. Huge fees, bad interest rates, foreclosure rate is eight times the national average on traditional mortgages.

Do not do reverse mortgages. Hope I wasn't unclear. This is the Ramsey Show. The right questions are the key to unlock personal and professional potential. That means if you're not where you want to be, you are not asking the right questions. I'm Ken Coleman and this is what my new show, Front Row Seat, is all about. Over my career, I've had the distinct privilege to interview successful people from all walks of life and to coach over 10,000 professionals who wanted more. What sets successful people apart is a never-ending desire to learn and grow.

Each week, I'll be joined by industry leaders and world-class experts to have a conversation about how to get better, move up, and lead well in work and life. But the best part of this show is you get to be a part of the conversation. Live in studio, we'll have a group of professionals just like you who have the power to ask questions and steer the discussion in real time.

It's an opportunity to get real answers to real questions like how to make the right decisions, have hard conversations, live a balanced life, and discover your next steps to grow. Join us every Tuesday for conversations that are guaranteed to surprise, challenge, and inspire you. Check out Front Row Seat wherever you get your podcasts.