The Ramsey Show - Big Life Changes Demand Bold Money Decisions

Episode Date: February 5, 2025

📈 Are you on track with the Baby Steps? Get a Free Personalized Plan Rachel Cruze & Dr. John Delony answer your questions and discuss: "How do I tell my husband he needs to suck it up and get a better job?" "Should I pay off a rental property?" "I'm worried about my siblings depleting their portion of our inheritance," "My daughter claims that her classmates are spending $20/day for take-out lunches," "We're debt-free but living paycheck-to-paycheck," "Can I afford a luxury watch?" Support Our Sponsors: 🌱 Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp ◎ Get 10% off Byrna product bundles and more! 🏥 Learn more about Christian Healthcare Ministries 🏡 Get started today with Churchill Mortgage 🔒 Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe 🏦 Go to FAIRWINDS Credit Union for an exclusive account bundle! 🥗 Save 15% on your first Field of Greens order with code RAMSEY ⛨ Find top Health Insurance Plans at Health Trust Financial 💸 Learn more about opening a high-yield savings account with Laurel Road 💻 Visit NetSuite today to learn more 🗂️ Use promo code RAMSEY for 18% off at The Nokbox 💵 Learn more about Timothy Plan 🏛 Get started with YRefy or call 844-2-RAMSEY 🔐 Visit Zander Insurance for your free instant quote today! Next Steps 📱 Watch the full episode for free in the Ramsey Network app. 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET or click here! ☂️ Get trusted insurance coverage that fits your budget.  🏖️ For help with investing, get connected with a SmartVestor Pro.  💵 Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app! 🪑 Check out Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman! 💪 Invest with confidence! Get tickets to Investing Essentials 💼 Connect with a RamseyTrusted tax pro for help with payroll and more Listen to more from Ramsey Network 🎙️ The Ramsey Show   🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 💰 George Kamel 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions is a paid, non-client promoter of SmartVestor Pros. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Live from Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz hosting at this hour with bestselling author and host of the Dr. John Delaney show, John Delaney. And your best friend, but and my BFF. You don't have to say that. My good friends, John Delaney. So we are answering your questions about your life, your relationships, your money, so give us a call at triple 8 8255 at 225 and we are here for you. All right, starting us off, this hour is Holly in Portland, Oregon. Hey Holly, welcome to the show.

Hi. Hello, hello. What's up? Hey, I have a difficult question and I'm really glad that I get to talk to both of you about it. Absolutely. Let it rip.

Okay. I have to have a really hard conversation with my husband. I have to basically tell him in a loving way that I really don't care what his dreams and aspirations are, that I really just need him to get a better job. Fantastic. This is incredible. Okay, dig in. Oh, fantastic. This is incredible. Okay. Dig in. I don't care. Like this is a wife that's at the end of her rope. She's really resolved. That's all I'm going to say. Holly knows. I love it. This is a wife at the end of her rope. I don't care what your stupid dreams are. I don't care when you think the Avon sales are going to finally come through. You just need to make money. We're hungry. So yeah, tell us where you're at. OK, so we've been married for 17 years and we have five kids and another on the way.

Oh, wow. First 10 years, he was active duty in the military. That was really, really hard on our relationship. And we made choices. He chose to get out because our family is more important and our stability is more important. And we made choices. Like I gave up my career. I'm a preschool teacher by trade and gave that up to be with our kids. And we... I just, he's underemployed. He's working like- Yeah, what's his situation now job wise? He took a job that guarantees him 30 hours a week as a school bus driver.

He has two degrees that we already did the hard work of getting. Like he got those since we've been married. How is he supporting five kids, one on the way with being a bus driver? It's really hard. He does get some disability but it's not like complete or anything. And Holly, is his mindset like he's happy because he has time with the family? It's not that much? I'm not stressed and all of that or does he feel undervalued at all? Is he looking or talking about other things? He's such a sweetheart. I think he really likes what he does and he loves working with the people he works with.

He's job hopped, he's experienced a lot of job loss, he left the military and he finally has found a job that he really likes or the people really seem to appreciate him, but it doesn't make up for the fact that he's underpaid and we're hustling. Well, baby step two, we're like really working the debt snow wall to the best of our ability. I have been working like 50 hours a week trying to open my own day care which didn't go well because of other things but I've been working and bringing in as much as I can and so the problem is that all these side hustles

brought our income up to a point where we're bringing in almost $10,000 a month, but I'm due soon, and most of my students have left because of my pregnancy, which is understandable. And then- And you're working so much to make that versus like having a 40 hour a week job where you're making 80 or whatever it is. Yeah, but how much, so, but Holly, what I'm hearing underneath everything is

how much of this is, and all of these things are real and they're not inherently bad. I just wanna get to the honest pain point here. Number one, when I was, I'm trying to think of my last title. When I was the Chief Student Affairs Officer, Dean of Students slash Associate Provost, I don't remember what my title was, it was long. I remember my wife, and this is her laughing and joking, but also like when she was at a dinner party,

she sure liked saying my husband is Dean of Students and a college executive, then a YouTuber. Doesn't matter that financially we're better off, doesn't matter that I'm helping way more people. That it was a funny thing, but she's like, yeah, it was cool, and I got to say that. So is this you don't like going to, talking to other moms and saying, well, my husband's a bus driver? Is that number one?

Number two, I hear you, you've entered into comparison world or scorekeeping world, and that's a dangerous place for relationships. I gave up my career. I'm doing this. I'm working so hard and I'm about to not be able to work hard because I'm giving I'm creating another human I'm about to give birth to and so is this about you keeping score and saying hey you're not as tired at the end of the day as I am or is this I'm looking at a man I love who can give value to the world and we don't have enough for groceries?

Where's the pain point here? Or maybe it's a cocktail of all of that. I didn't grow up with money or anything. It doesn't matter to me what he does. I don't care about his title. And I've been a stay at home mom off and on and that's what I would prefer to do. Okay. But I'm fine with making sacrifices for our family. I'm not asking him to do anything that I haven't done. And I think he sees what I do and acknowledges it and it's very grateful.

I don't think it's a comparison thing for me. I think it's just that I'm scared because we're about to lose. Half our income. That's it. Half our income. Yeah. That's where you start. That right there is the most honest statement because that's different than you called in saying,

and again, I'm with you, not at you, okay? So, but that's you calling in saying, I have to tell my husband I don't care about his dreams and his whatever, he's got to get another job. That's different than you saying. Hey, honey We're about to face a math problem and me as a stay-at-home mom of six. I'm terrified Well, I tried to have that conversation and he's like well, maybe I want to be a teacher Which means he has to go back to school. Mm-hmm. And then if you look at the salary that it's

Starting pay for teachers in our state Yeah, you know y'all may like this sounds awful, but y'all made choices to have six to create six humans So that means you can't afford to make $42,000. That's that's the train Yeah And or live in Portland, right? Right. Well, we live outside of Portland in a much cheaper area But he thinks he can make up the gaps with the side hustles, which we've been doing. But y'all aren't going to be able to do side hustles anymore. You're out.

Yeah. And the side hustle world is for a season. It's not ongoing to support a seven person family. And he's up against time. He doesn't have any more hours in the day to do another side hustle. He already has like two part-time gigs plus his bus driving. So if I'm you, I would sit down and start with, I want to map this out for the next six months. I want us to be honest about the money, not, well, I hope here, I think I've got a deal here, and I'm trying to build this.

We're not at that place right now. I want to be honest about what's coming down the road for six months. We need to sit down and make a plan. I'm scared to death. Will you help me with this? And this is not, that's how you get underneath the dream part. I need this written down.

How much money will you bring in from these side hustles? Not fantasy, not fiction. I needed to know based on the last three months, what are we gonna do the next three or six months? And then you look and say, we don't have enough money for you to go be a teacher. I want you to be, we need good teachers. I would love for more men to be teachers,

but our family, for us right now, we can't afford to do that. And so we're gonna have to make some sacrifices, whether it's time, whether it's this quote unquote passion and purpose right now, we can't afford to do that. And so we're gonna have to make some, we're gonna have to make some sacrifices, whether it's time, whether it's this quote-unquote passion and purpose right now, we just can't do it. Hey, what's up guys? It's Jade Warshaw. And look, if there's anybody who knows student loan debt is a problem, it's me. My husband and I had $280,000 of it, but we were able to dig ourselves out and you can too. If your student loan payment and interest rate are burying you, refinancing could be

the solution. Now, I recommend contacting my friends at Laurel Road today. Through their online application, you can get an initial rate quote in less than five minutes and if you have a more complex situation, you can schedule 30 minutes to talk to an actual human being. Thank goodness. Laurel Road makes it simple. There are no fees involved,

and you could save thousands over the life of your loan. Remember, you should only refinance if it makes sense in your situation. So if you're looking for a low rate or a shorter term so that you can pay off these student loans fast, talk to my friends at Laurel Road about their competitive interest rates and how you could actually get a lower rate

by signing up for auto pay. Listen, nobody's coming to save you from student loan debt. If you want them gone, you can't mess around. Go to laurelroad.com slash Ramsey to find out more about student loan refinancing. Again, that's laurelroad.com slash Ramsey. Laurel Road is a brand of Key Bank National Association. All credit products are subject to credit approval.

Well, John, you're going to be busy this spring. You and Dave are hitting the road. Yes. It's going to be a wild tour, me and Dave. Yeah, the Money and Relationships Tour. You guys are going to Louisville, Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth, Kansas City, all through the end of April and early May. So if those are any of your cities near you

or you wanna travel to, destination cities, make sure to, yeah, see if you guys can come because it's gonna, you guys are really, you know, creating this event in a really unique way that the audience gets to decide a lot of the content in each of these cities, which is so fun. Yeah, and it will be Wheels Off, which I'm looking forward to. Wheels Off the Bus.

Yeah. You are one of only like a few people on the planet who have had the experience of being on stage with Dave when you'll kind of have an outline of what y'all are gonna do. And then he just gets in the driver's seat and he hits the gas and you're like, oh, this is where we're going.

So here we go, right? And so I'm, I am as nervous for this as I've been for anything in a long time. I can't wait. Yeah, it's gonna be, it's gonna be fun. So go to ramsysolutions.com slash tour and get your tickets for the Money and Relationships Tour with Dr. John Delaney and Dave Ramsey. It's gonna be train wrecks on stage. It's gonna be fantastic. Nowadays

people like in you know this, we both do it, but you get on like a tour cycle. And so if you hear like your favorite person on a podcast, you see them pop up. Sometimes we just have the same points talking about the same thing. What I love about this is if whatever night you show up, it's gonna be a different event, man. And I don't get to do that very often, so I'm excited about it.

We'll have a blast. So great, so great. All right, next we have Andrew in Dayton, Ohio. Hey, Andrew, welcome to the show. I appreciate you having me. Absolutely, how can we help? Hey, Andrew, welcome to the show. I appreciate you having me. Absolutely. How can we help? So, I'm in a bit of a particular situation right now.

Just to kind of debrief you on my situation, I have no debt other than the mortgage. Me and my father are in a little bit of a dispute whether I should pay off my current mortgage, which is on an investment property that I don't live in first or save as much money as I can and put it into a primary residence. Where are you living now? I'm currently living around Beaton and I still live at home with my parents. Your home, okay. Is this disagreement your dad wanting you to get out?

It's not a matter of that. In my culture, you don't move out until you're married. And I'm going to be married here in 56 days. Oh, wow. I thought I'm counting down by the minute, but congratulations, brother. That's awesome. So where are you guys going to live? I appreciate it. You and the wife. My parents have a second home that they're allowing me to live in.

All I have to do is just pay the expenses so they break even. I'm very generous with them. I'm very appreciative of that. Is this a long-term thing or is this just like, hey, the first couple of years, you know, don't worry about rent, you guys can live here, but you will eventually get your own place or this,

is this property from your parents deemed to you guys like long-term? They've said we can stay in it for as long as possible. Personally, I don't want to take advantage of their generosity. So they will get in and out of there within two years. Yeah, for sure. And if that wasn't the case,

I didn't know like what situation you were in, if it was gonna be deeded to y'all eventually, you know what I mean or something like that. But if you guys, I would want you guys working towards your primary home for sure so that you have the ability to go and buy something when you're ready. How old are you guys? I'm 21 and my fiance is 18.

Okay. Okay, great. So how much is left on the rental property? 173,000. Okay. And how much will you guys be making combined? Household income after you get married? The problem is I open sales pretty much all of my income comes from the Commission so that's kind of speculative but I'm gonna

say somewhere between 121 and 40,000 Okay, and what will she be doing? Good question. You should find out you're getting married in 56 days, dude. I guess you're going to school or will she be working? She was going to school. She stopped because she realized the degree she was going to where it was probably not worth it, but she is working right now. Okay, how much do you think she'll bring home?

Probably around 40,000. Okay. Okay. So you guys are at 180 Oh I bet I meant 140 combined. I'm sorry. Oh, okay. Okay together you guys. Okay. I'm sorry. I got you And the rental property how tell me that about that. Was that you and your dad together doing that or is that just under your name? It's just under my name. Okay. And why are, what, I'm just curious, why aren't you moving into it? What's causing you to have this property? It generates too much money for me to just and I'm moving into it to be honest. Okay. Yeah but if you're what are you gonna pay out and rent if you get and go rent your own place? I mean that probably four or five

hundred a month. Okay. That would be the difference? Well the each side of the property generates about twelve1,200 a month and my parents only really want me to pay around $400 to $500, which is just the expenses. Yeah, but that's living in mommy and daddy's house, so when you decide you and your wife are gonna move into your own place, what will your rent on that place be? Oh, I'm not looking to rent, I want to buy it. Wait, I'm sorry, are you talking about the house I'm moving into? No, here's what I'm not looking to rent. I want to buy it. That's... wait, I'm sorry. Are you talking about the house I'm moving into or...? No, here's what I'm trying to...

the picture I'm trying to paint for you. As a 21-year-old, you're so far ahead of the game, you're thinking about owning your own business, you're thinking about becoming a property owner and a property manager and all that, which is awesome. I'm proud of you. And so at 21, as a salesman making an unstable commission, like you have great month, you might have a good month,

and then you have three or four low months, just that steady drum beat where it feels like you're getting $2,400 every month, minus your mortgage on that place, minus the expenses, minus the depreciation, minus the upkeep, minus the, oh hey, we need to do a new roof, minus the, hey, the air conditioner went out,

minus the, hey, they flushed a whole bunch of grease down the toilet, and so now we have to replace the sewer main, like minus all of that stuff, what Rachel and I are trying to, I guess we're trying to gently steer you in, what feels like so much money you can't afford to sell it or move into it yourself. What I'm telling you is in five years,

you're gonna much rather wish you had a paid for own house than have a paid for rental house and you and your wife are still trying to figure out how you're gonna pay your mortgage every month. So it feels like a lot right now, but y'all haven't had a big expense, you haven't had the thing almost fall down, you haven't had that kind of stuff

that hits every single home manager out there. Do you hear what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. That was kind of a third option that I kind of floated that I never really took seriously. I probably have 150,000 in equity in that house. I can sell at 1031 Exchange and into a primary if I need to.

If I was you, I would spend one year at this gift that my mom and dad are giving me and we would save every possible penny and I would sell the rental property. Live on 40 or something the next day. You know what I mean? Like if you don't have rents coming up. Put 75 grand away.

Yeah, do that for about one or two years. And golly, you could put, yeah. 150, 200, sell your place. That's 350, go pay cash for a house right up to the sunset. If you guys wanna get back into the rental game, then do it with some cheap, you know, $150,000 property that you guys save up over time because you have a paid for house.

Like just know this, if you could figure out a way at 25 or 26 reverse engineer this yeah we have a paid for primary house me and my new wife we've been married five years we're going to start having children we're driving kids and we have a paid for house no mortgage i'm telling you right now you have set yourself on have you heard the phrase in the because you i can tell you're uh you read all the stuff have you heard of take care of your long tails? Have you heard of that phrase? I don't believe so. Okay, so if you think of a distribution on a bell curve, the long tails are the way outside of the

bounds things that almost never happen except for every single person they do happen. And what I mean is every single day of your life you don't get a cancer diagnosis, someday somebody you love will. Okay, that's taking care of your long tails. Long tail is the market will go up, rent will go out, COVID will happen, renters won't pay, whatever happens you'll have a legislative change in your state where they say you can't evict people. Who knows what happens down the road? But if you've taken care of this long tail that nobody can take away your primary home, you and your wife have long tail that nobody can take away your primary home, you and your wife have a home that nobody can take.

It allows you to anchor off and really go after true wealth creation. Yep, so Andrew, I think what I would do is I would live rent free in your parents' home, let your property continue to appreciate, that's fine, but then eventually have the goal to sell it probably in the next year or two. And exactly what you're saying,

move all that equity over to a primary home with the money you've saved. And there's a good chance you could cashflow primary home. And then if you guys want to get in the rental game, do that later with cash. But that's a lot of races, man. That's a lot of peace, Andrew. Congratulations. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. You've probably heard people talk about different kinds of flags in friendships and romantic relationships.

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five at two two five. Up next we have Dan in Houston, Texas. to The Ramsey Show. We're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Next we have Dan in Houston, Texas. Hey Dan, welcome to the show. Hi, thanks for having me. Absolutely, how can we help? Well, first I want to give a shout out. I started with Dave's program many years ago. I'm 67 now and by the time I was 55 I could retire. Now I'm doing the things I love and volunteering. Well done, Dan. Congratulations. I'm trying to spread the word, you know. I'm working on brevity here. So there's four of us kids.

I'm the oldest of 68, the youngest is 61. And number two is my sister and she's the administrator, the trustee of the estate. And so my mother's 95 and when she passes, we all received between a half a million and 750,000. So yeah, life-changing money. You know, my wife and I are both debt-free. I mean, literally no debt. Dave would laugh if he heard that my truck has 300,000 miles on it. You tell him to go get a new truck, Dan. He would, go get a new truck, Dan. I'm telling you, go get a new truck, Dan.

Thanks guys. I'm kind of in love with this thing. The problem is, the two youngest ones have asked my mother for money before over the years, both a little bit over $100,000. One of them, number three, has $900 car payment, $2,400 a month apartment payment, about $160,000 credit card debt. And even though she makes six figures, cannot emotionally control her spending. The youngest one, we inherited about a hundred grand from my father some 10 years ago. And I said, if you blow this money, money I'm gonna punch you in the nose and six months later he had a quad and a snowmobile

and didn't pay off his house you know he's been bankrupt and did you hit him just kidding no no you know the problem is is I'm not too worried about it my my I've been working since I was 13. My sister's a hard worker too, but the problem is she's worried they're going to come to the door, you know, when they're 70 or 80 begging for money. You have money, I have no money. And we're trying to figure out how to handle the coming basically tsunami of what they're going to bring to the table. Now the trust comes in two parts. The one trust everybody gets an equal share

right away and then the second trust my sister and I both get our share but those two there my mother broke it up so that it's like five years apart something like that. But if you have any advice for how to handle people who blow through money, have no control. I've got my brother on Dave's program, he was good for a year and then fell off the wagon. So, hey Dan, here's the hard thing. I'll answer it, but here's the hard thing, okay? Yes, sir. The answer to this question has nothing to do with them. Okay, you know, I told my sister that. I said, I have no problem, you know, in my heart,

knowing that over the years, over 20, 30 years, I'm all going on 40 now, I have ministered, I have given material, I've done everything I can. But here's the thing, it was never about you. Right. They're struggling. And so it sounds like what, especially your sister, but I'm sure deep down you're dealing with it too, is you're frustrated at the future guilt that may come your way. Boy, yep, you're nailing it on the head. But here's what's hard, if you live like that right now, what you're doing is you're not mitigating the guilt in the future, you're nailing it on the head. I'd like to think I won't. But here's what's hard. If you live like that right now, what you're doing is you're not mitigating the guilt

in the future, you're just spoiling today. Yeah, absolutely right. And so I'm gonna choose for peace and joy and warmth and laughter in the right now, and I'm gonna be very clear about my boundaries moving forward. Right. And so the harder conversation will be sitting down with your brother and sister who are

adults who could have never, like they could care less what you have to teach them. They think, like I'm sure when they get coffee together, they're talking about you and your sister. All they do is work and they never, whatever. Is saying, hey, here's the distribution. Don't come to us. Or you and your wife sit down. And you're saying just saying it out loud when you guys all have to.

Yes. I heard Becky Kennedy say this, Dr. Kennedy say this, and I loved it. She said a boundary is something that requires nothing from anyone else other than you. Wow, that is awesome. So you're going to set this boundary. We're all going to be clear there's no more money after this. And if you as a loving brother want to say I'll hook you up with the Ramsey Solutions, I'll hook you up with the plan that set me and my wife free. Y'all want that?

Great. I'm not going to preach to you. I need everybody, it needs to be on record that you're all getting a check for $750,000. Y'all are going to have to learn to manage this because you're 80, you can't come knocking on my door. Here's the other side of that. You and your wife might sit down and say, when that day comes, are we really gonna leave our brother on the street?

And if not, then say, okay, then we'll start a small fund. Like y'all get to decide what you do with that moving forward. But what y'all are doing, you and your sister are doing, is you're living every minute frustrated by things that other grown adults are choosing to not do. And that haven't really happened yet either. And it haven't even happened, exactly.

And so you're- No, you're 100% correct. Brene Brown calls it dress rehearsing tragedy. I love that. Oh, God. So you're already having imaginary conversations that you at 82 are gonna have with an 80 year old little brother. Don't do that. You're just blowing your... like you should be

laughing, especially when you're truck shopping, because God, get a new truck, dude. But, and I'm playing with you, my truck has 200,000 miles, so I'm with you. But you get what I'm saying? Oh yeah, and you know, I've actually had this conversation with my sister, and my wife and I are in a new marriage, and some people didn't like the idea that we got married and all this kind of stuff. And I'm like, look, this is all about us now. Yeah, they don't get a vote. Who cares? Right, exactly. And it's really tearing my sister up. And I think that we sometimes live under this illusion

that we can change people. That if we say the right thing or we give the right book or we do whatever it may be, that that's somehow gonna be the magic moment of the light bulb going off in their head of like, oh my gosh, and we put that responsibility on ourselves. And I hear this more from your sister, the way you're talking about your sister.

And so yeah, maybe you hang up with us and call her and relieve her right I mean like tell her about this call but you both don't need to sit there feeling this like hero complex that we it's it's our responsibility somehow to change our 62 year old sibling yeah but also your parent I hear you your parents put her in a very maternal role. They did. And they were really bad with money and came into it late in life. And my sister and I have been working literally since we've been 13, which is fine.

We both love working. Sure. But to think that I'm gonna give it away to somebody who's lived this profligate life, and it's just ludicrous. So here's the deal and I would sit down with I would sit down with your sister and say as your as your little brother or as your older brother I want to remind you they have a mom and it's not you. All her job is is to distribute the funds in the way that mom asked. That's it. Not manage everybody's. I'm not gonna manage you.

I'm not gonna try to pseudo parent through mom from the grave. I'm not gonna do any of that stuff. Put all that weight on her. That's it. I mean, yeah. She has to decide I'm not gonna be their 78 year old mother.

I'm gonna be their older sister just doing what mom asked me to do. Yeah. Well, this is pretty much what I told her and she's still in fear, you know, she has that guilt like you guys were saying and you know I learned this volunteering at the hospital. The man once told me goes, you know you see a crisis based on how you're living but they don't see a crisis. That's right. And they don't, you know, they don't see a crisis. But that's

right. They sound like a lot of Americans right now that think that's just gonna continually go on forever and ever amen, and it's not. Yeah, and Dan too, you can be a great listening ear for your older sister too, but don't carry hers weight either. That's right, that's right. Yeah, because part of your call has been a lot of her concern too.

And don't carry that either, Dan. You know, it's this like kind of individualness that I think is really important for you guys because you're taking on a lot. Your sister's emotion that's doing things well, but she's frustrated and fearful. And then the siblings that aren't. So there's a lot of stuff.

And just because you feel guilty doesn't mean it's not the wrong decision. Just because you feel guilty doesn't mean you're doing the wrong thing. You're a good man, man. Congratulations. Thanks, Dan, for the call. You're a good man, man. Congratulations.

Thanks Dan for the call. There's a time in your life and in the baby steps for renting, but you don't want to do it forever because when you rent, you're still paying for a mortgage, just somebody else's. Plus, rent means instability in your budget because it always goes up, never down. So when you're ready to buy, make sure you work with a mortgage partner you can rely on, Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is Ramsey Trusted to help you make the move

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YREFI refinances are defaulted private student loans which are different than federal student loans. Wi-Refi, oh gosh, Wi-Refi defaults student loans and builds you a custom one based on your ability to pass gift alone. So kick your private student loan debt out of your life by going to wirefi.com slash Ramsey that's the letter Y, R, don't say it, REFY.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y, R, don't say it, R E F Y dot com slash Ramsey may not be available in all states. I'm terrible sometimes. This segment is also brought to you by Bob's reading course.

Bob's teaching Rachel Cruz how to read. I was like, I'm re-saying the same line again. Not correct. The Yrefi people are like, man, we got our money out of that ad. Listen, Yrefi, it's incredible. It is, it takes your defaulted private student loans, creates a new loan with a low interest rate that will fit in your budget. And it's wonderful. We

don't talk about refinancing debt majority of the time. We don't recommend it, but with private student loans, we do. So there you go. Go to YRefi, Y-R-E-F-Y.com. Words. We gave them an extra love. What's that Nate Bragazzi is like, there's just so many words when you read. There's just words everywhere. Today's question comes from Alexandra in Arizona. My 14 year old daughter claims that all the kids in school,

dude, we just, I just had this in my house. My 14 year old daughter claims that all the kids in school are buying lunches from local eateries and spending as much as 20 bucks a day on takeout food rather than bringing their lunch. It's not allowed in our school. No outside takeout food, keep going. My wife and I are on baby step two

and have another $65,000 to go. We simply cannot afford this. How do I explain to this to my 14 year old without in her words, making her feel poor? I think underneath all of this, I'm just gonna tell you Rachel, how I experienced this, very similar. The school my son goes to has extraordinary cafeteria.

And for me and Sheila, it's less about the finances and it's more about, I want him to participate in food creation and food consumption. I want him to know that food just doesn't materialize out of thin air, right? And so that may, that's a little house on the prairie for us, I know, but. You don't let him buy from the cafeteria,

is that what you're saying? No, that's right. So he has to be a part of making his food. Oh, gotcha, gotcha. Underneath this though, I struggled with, my kid's the only one. And so I think Alexandra, it's less about you worrying about your 14 year old

feeling poor, and it's more about you feeling guilty that your 14 year old has any sort of uncomfortable feelings. And that's where you need to deal with this. So if you can't afford it, then the way you go straight into that is sitting down with your daughter and letting her walk through your budget with you. She's 14, she's a freshman in high school, she can do that. And you look at her and say, we're working really hard to change our family tree, we don't have enough money.

And by the way, for a 14-year-old, they don't care. They're gonna have feelings, they're gonna get mad, oh my gosh, we're poor. Let a 14-year-old say 14-year-old things. There's a reason as a society we we have all said 14 year olds can't buy beer and cigarettes and guns because they're 14. The other side of that is you need to become more comfortable with your 14 year old being uncomfortable. Yes, that's good. Because that's life.

Well, that's life. And if it's not the lunches, it's gonna be the type of shoes. It's gonna be the backpack. And the phone. It keeps going and then on into college. What college is she going to? I mean that feeling continues.

And so the greatest gift you can give 14 year olds is not $20 a day for lunch, it is the ability to tolerate discomfort and go forward anyway. And that's a lesson every human will learn. That you have to learn eventually. Most days now adults call into the show saying, I'm $140,000 in student loan debt,

I'm trying to live in New York City and I wanna be a painter and it doesn't work. And nobody had reality conversations earlier. I read this in a parenting book, I can't remember who it was, Sissy Golf, I can't remember who it was, but they were saying that the generation, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, was the helicopter parents

and now it's the snow plow parents. Yeah, the bulldozers. Where you just make a smooth path so there's no bumps, we don't feel anything, we are good, no hardship, no bumps in the road. It is just a smooth walk and everything is fine. And that's not reality. No, and so- It's like teaching your kids-

This is an amazing moment for your 14 year old. And can I just say this too, not that this matters, but they're buying lunch from local eateries. This isn't even like a cafeteria buy. This is that they're. Yeah, they leave campus. Yeah, like it's even a step beyond normal reality. Like some kids, you know what I mean?

Like it's not even like, oh, we're not even gonna pay for school lunches from the cafeteria. This is like another step beyond. So I think even for her to have some level of reality, my parents did this, of like, there's tiers in life. The highest tier is that a 14-year-old is getting a $20 lunch from Panera or whatever the local eatery is.

The second tier is, yeah, maybe you get to spend some money and buy lunch at the cafeteria. And then you gotta bring your lunch. I don't know, we don't all get to live at a high level. There's going to be ups and downs in life So a great gift you give your 14 year old is let her experience that now Yeah, and let her just know that she's not alone experiencing that let her know I wish I could just give you 20 bucks every day. That'd be awesome. That's not reality. That'd be cool

And just for whatever whoever's listening because evidently there's at least two of us in the country dealing with this the two ways we've mitigated this in our house and and you don't mitigate it, you just walk through it, is a lot of the time our kids participate in cooking the night before and so the leftovers are not just leftovers that were shoved out in the fridge. It was something that they participated in cooking the night before and they've got a steak in it, right? They got skin in the game. Or just yesterday my son was cooking chicken nuggets or something before school in the oven, and that's what he's gonna put in a container

to take to school. So he gets to take as luxurious a lunch as he wants to, but he's gonna make it, and it's gonna be from what we have in the fridge, in the house. And so that comes with planning and meal planning, all that kind of stuff. So all I have to say is,

the goal is not to have 14 year olds that don't feel certain ways. They're gonna feel however they feel, 16, 17, 18, whatever. The goal is, your feelings are okay and they're right and I'm gonna sit with you while you feel that way. And then we're gonna be tethered to reality. We don't have the money, we just simply don't.

And by the way, if you did, I would recommend you not do that anyway. That's right, that's right. All right, next we have Donna in Sarasota, Florida. Hey Donna, welcome to the show. Hi. Hello, hello, how can we help? Hi, so my husband and I have worked really hard

to be debt free and to get our daughter through college debt free, and we've achieved that. And we moved to Florida to kind of slow down, enjoy our time a little bit more. We took lower paying jobs and we are finding that we only make just enough to cover the bills now that we're down here. And I'm wondering if we should, I know your answer, but I'm wondering if he should take some equity out of our house or invest it somewhere else. Okay, yeah.

Questioning whether he should take early for security. How much are you guys making a year? About $60,000. $60,000, okay. And how much does it take to run your household every month? About $5,000 a month. About $5,000. Oh yeah, I mean, yeah. And how much is your mortgage? Yeah, we're there. How much is your mortgage? I don't have a mortgage. About $5,000. Oh yeah, I mean yeah. And how much is your mortgage? Yeah, we're there. How much is your mortgage?

I don't have a mortgage. We're debt free. Oh, oh, that, oh, okay. And how old are you guys? I'm 55 and my husband is 61. How much do you guys have in retirement? $225. Can I be the bearer of bad news?

I know what you're going to say. Like y'all wanted to slow down and y'all aren't, this isn't a character issue, this isn't a dream issue, this is just a mouth problem. Y'all just aren't in a place where you can slow down yet. Yeah, combined you guys can't be making 60. You guys need to be making double. Each of you need't be making 60 you guys need to be making Double each of you didn't be making 60 and can I tell you y'all get to feel real sad about that because y'all worked Really hard to get out of debt you worked really hard to get your daughter through school and It's just a math problem Yeah, and that means I would love to see y'all come up with like a number Rachel

Like I get it to a number and say this is what we need to work towards so that you don't feel like you're just perpetually working seven hours a week for the rest of your life. Totally, yes. But at the same time, like we had this dream of just kind of laying back and working part-time jobs and enjoying Florida and the math just doesn't work. Yeah, where, so y'all are in Sarasota, I was gonna say, I mean, I don't know if there's a

less expensive, you know, place that you guys wanna be long-term. You know, you could consider that. But also, I mean, yeah, I mean, I would do the math and just say, okay, for him, for the next three to four years, for you, maybe the next five, what does it look like and how much do we need to make to put a percentage of our income away for retirement

because you're gonna want more in retirement and that we're not feeling like we are living paycheck to paycheck. So that's going to just really be you guys sitting down and mapping out. But then also, I mean, Sarasota, I mean, you're in an expensive part of Florida. So I mean, you know, whatever you could sell your house for, do you guys say, yeah, we just on a whim decided Sarasota or is there a family around? Is there a reason you're there? Could there be a less expensive place?

Get a condo, bank half your equity, and you know, put yourself in a different place to retire earlier. But don't borrow against your mortgage because you're just planting a problem and you've put your house on the block as a solution to that. Don't do that.

Thanks to all the guys in the booth and Kelly. Thank you, John, for a great hour and thank you, America. This is the booth and Kelly. Thank you, John, for a great hour. And thank you, America. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, listen up. Everyone is at risk of identity theft. I don't care if you're a hermit living off the grid, listening to the show on a battery powered radio. All of your data collected by every company

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I even have it for my family and our entire team visit Xander.com or call 800-356-4282. Live from Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my good friend and best selling author Dr. John Deloney. And we are answering your questions. So give us a call at triple eight, eight two five, five two two five. Your relationships, money, life? All of it.

We got an opinion on it. Anything and everything. Give us a call. We're starting off this hour with Julia in Seattle. Hi, Julia. Welcome to the show. Thank you. You are welcome.

How can we help? What's up? Hi, I'm wondering if I'm foolish to keep my house. I bought this house with my husband about 18 months ago. And just a few weeks after moving in, I found out you had been having an affair for the past six months. Aw, James.

I'm sorry. Yeah, it was horrible. Oh, I'm so sorry. He declined to end that relationship and our divorce was just final a couple of months ago. And he quit claim to the house to me, but now I'm responsible for the entire payment myself, and it's most of my paycheck.

Yeah, you got to sell it. Okay, can I tell you a little more? Yeah, please. I hate this for you. I'm heartbroken for you. I only need to stay in it for like five more years until my kids graduate high school. And I don't after all of what they've been through this last year, I just don't want to make a move to schools and all that. I have about $500,000 in investment accounts and

retirement accounts as well as a pension. And I have $125,000 in a high yield savings account as an emergency fund. And I've always been good with money and I've saved for a rainy day. And I'm wondering, is this my rainy day? Yeah. No, this is like- Your rainy five years. This is, yeah. No, this is like- Your rainy five years? Yeah. This is, yeah, no, this is a wipeout.

Okay, so Julia, tell me, what are you bringing home a year? About $150,000. Okay. And per month, what is hitting your account after taxes and everything? A little over $8,000. Okay, and how much is the mortgage? And then I have $2,000 of child support coming in. Okay, so $10,000. Okay, and how much is the mortgage? $2,000 of child support. Okay, so $10,000 total coming in. Yeah. Okay, and how much is the mortgage?

The mortgage is $6,000. For your job, yeah, I mean do you see any... How much equity is in the house? Almost 50%. We just had it valued for the divorce and it was a little over 1.6 and I owe 850 on it. So one thing you might try, um, and this is embarrassing because this is a largely money show and I can't think of a term, but you can call your mortgage company and good gosh, I've lost the term,

but essentially adjust your payment in light of what you owe now. Okay. And so for instance, if you took out a $1.3 million loan and you got it down to that 800,000 they may be able to drop it as though you have whatever it is you have left. Okay. And I off the top of my head give me a second I'll think of the term here in a second. No it's not refinancing. It's almost like an attribution. Talk for a second. I'll look it up real quick.

I've got an email in my box for one second. Yeah. So yeah, Julia, I mean... I haven't had to dip into savings yet and it's been a year. I'm super good at living frugally. Yeah, but here's, here's, well, I'm looking this up. Here's my big concern for you. Okay. You're trying to limit the bomb blast that just happened in your home Yeah, and I want you to know like in here from it a neutral third party like What you think you're shielding them from they've already experienced and The thing if you look five years from now ten years years from now, the greatest gift you could give them

is a mom who found peace inside her own home, not a stressed out mom who had to work overtime and skimped and didn't eat sometimes and did this and that so they could stay in the same school. Does that make sense? Are they in public school? Backcasting. They are, yeah.

Recast, that's what it is. I'm sorry, recast. Yes, yes, yes. Call your mortgage company and ask about a recast. Okay, if that's an option. It may drop your payment by half. So call and ask them that. Okay.

Are they in private or public? They're in public school. They're in public. And I'm just wondering, Julia, you know, yeah, if the recasting and all of that doesn't happen, is there a way, because I even know within our school, you know, our school district, even to say within our elementary school, which is a tiny little circle within a county, but I'm like, there's, you know, certain neighborhoods

that are half the price of other neighborhoods. I mean, there's still like a, there's still a cost difference, even in residential, right? So is there an area where you guys are, would you say you're in the higher end of that school district or are there cheaper houses that you may wanna move homes? Cause I get that feeling as a mom trying to keep them with a level of normalcy like that makes sense to me.

But it doesn't make sense to, yeah, I mean, basically drive yourself down with this payments and having nothing, I mean, you'll have 4,000 to live on. Could you? But that's a lot of kids and kids eat a lot and school and cleats and all kinds of stuff. And everything. Is there other options, Julia, within the school district,

housing-wise? If I wanted like a condo or if I just wanted to rent for the last few years of their schooling. Yeah. Yeah. How much of this Julia is, and this is just me asking just, just between me and you and a couple of million people listening. Like he took your marriage and he blew your house up and the thing that nobody ever talks about in these moments is you lost trust in you because you've been asking yourself for the last 18 months, how did I not see this? How did I not experience this?

What is it about me that he got caught and he was like, nah, I'm going to go with her. How much of this is you can't have my dream house too. You took everything from me. You're not taking this house that we, you and I saved for, that we put down on. How dare you just walk away from my house? I haven't thought about that before. I mean, maybe a bit. Okay.

Cause if that is what tilts the teeter tottotter here, then that's me having a hard conversation with my friend Julian saying, that's ego. And I want you to have peace more than I want you to have this big fancy house. Yeah. If it's the majority, I just can't in my gut, stomach, disrupting my kids' lives again. Just know their lives have already been so disrupted just know their lives have already been so disrupted that mom solving for peace is is the primary I'm gonna solve for peace in every way I can and if that means we got to move again then God Almighty we got to move again how old are the kids Julia there are 13 and my son just turned 18 okay so yeah so it'd be the 13 year old yeah yeah yeah that would that would feel so but so but mom

and a 13 year old can move to a condo Yes, and have no upkeep and have no whatever you get you get a lot of equity cash in the bank and you get to breathe Yeah Um, yeah, I mean i'm just being as honest as I can if there's just me and one kid, right? I wouldn't have a 1.6 million dollar house house right in this much money stress I just wouldn't but that's easy for me to say on the side of the fence yeah yeah call your mortgage company and check out about a recast and see if they can drop your payment it's not a refi but it may help you in this situation thanks for the call Julia so sorry this is the

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to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage. To protect your biggest assets, I recommend using Ramsey Trusted Pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsey Trusted Providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at ramsysolutions.com slash insurance. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Up next we have a Christian in Boston. Hey Christian, welcome to the show. Oh, did it go?

Hey Christian. Nice to meet you guys. Hey, what's up man? Hey, Rachel just said that funny. Like we have a Christian. Like we have a Christian. No, I didn't. We have a Catholic in Boston.

We have a Christian. We have this awesome guy named Christian. What's up dude? Christian, welcome. So I've been a long time social media watcher, never called in. So I'm 25 from Boston. I'll give you a little background before I get to my question. I'm 25. I. I'll give you a little background before I guess I get to my question. I'm 25.

I have no debt at all. My net worth, I guess, with investments in cash sits around $133 depending on how the market is. And last year I took around $125,000 home. And I want to buy a watch, a luxury watch, a Tudor. It will range probably with tax around $5,000 to $6,000 home and I want to buy a watch a luxury watch a Tudor It's they will range probably with tax around five to six K I already have a Rolex and so I guess my question is with my finances no debt nothing What is an appropriate amount of money to spend on a luxury watch and if so, you know Does this make sense for me as a want not necessarily need to spend you know

this amount of money on a watch. Yeah I mean I think just a couple like tactical money questions do you so you got you have no debt? None. And you have savings and emergency fund? Yep. Okay. Yeah. How much liquid cash do you have beyond your emergency fund? Beyond my emergency fund, probably 35. 35,000? Yeah, and then I have obviously 401k, my Roth, and then my average standard investment account. Yeah. What will this watch bring you, like in your chest?

If you have your fist on your chest, what will this watch bring you? Like in your chest? Like if you have your fist in your chest, what will this watch bring you? I don't know. I kind of appreciate, I guess, the craftsmanship. It's a nice watch. It looks cool. It doesn't do anything different than my phone, you know, flipping it over. It's more or less just kind of like a want. You know, it's not like I'm buying it for some sort of, know to commemorate something you know I turned 26 this month like if you really want to

call it I'm buying it for something I'm getting kicked off my parents life insurance like that that's what I'm fine right right yeah I would guess this so Rachel tell me Rachel is better at this than me I have bought guitars that are really expensive that I thought were gonna fill a hole in my heart and they didn't. I love them and I told people like no they they have a kind of tone or they put I needed this guitar to make myself feel better so there was that. I'll also tell you just as a 25 year old and I'm in my 40s. The single greatest flex I've ever seen

when it comes to watches was doing an event with Jaco. And dude rolls up with a Timex and we were talking about his watch and the way he said it, you know Jaco, but the way he said it tells the same time that everybody else, the other watch tells, I just remember thinking like, you're the baddest dude I've ever met. Not to mention, you know, he's Jaco, but it was a... It's almost a flex not to have it kind of thing. Yeah.

I remit, I just, and I guess that would be my warning to you as a 25 year old is if you want nice things and you got cash and you're like whatever, whatever. You can afford it. Yeah, you can afford it. Fine. The thing is, is I think sometimes, I remember being 25, I remember being 35 and thinking I needed a pair of jeans,

I needed a car that said, I needed shoes that said X, Y, and Z. And now that I'm older and I've hired a bunch of people in my life and I'm meeting people all over the country, I was actually completely opposite wrong. The eyebrow gets raised when somebody walks into somewhere nice and they've got jeans on, because you think, oh, that guy knows something

I don't know. Or when they pull out their Timex and you know they're worth millions and millions of dollars, you end up going, that's kind of awesome actually, right? And so, but I think cash to cash you can afford it. It's a nice thing. Yeah, totally. And I think what John's saying,

I think the sentiment of stuff is always just, I think it's an awareness within you, Christian. And I do the same. I mean, like, I mean, I think there's just something to be said of when I want something, asking the questions, you know, if nobody sees this, do I still want it? How much of my motivation is for other people? How much of it is for my own ego to feel something? And even from a joy perspective, Arthur Brooks talks about this, that we can do five things with money. We can give it, save it, buy our time back, buy experiences with people we love and buy stuff.

And the one thing that does not bring lasting joy is stuff. So again, this whole kind of concept of, I'm buying this watch because I love it. Because I bought a purse for my birthday last year and it was a nice purse and it was like, okay. Think like whatever car you drive, that nice of a purse. Like no, no, do not, no, not that nice.

There are levels of purses, there's not that kind of purse, but it wasn't from Target. And so it was just this idea of like, okay, if I have this purse, if I don't have this purse, what does Rachel say about herself? How is she feeling when she walks in a room? Like there's just a lot of introspectness I would have for myself, the higher dollar amount you spend on something.

I think the more is just kind of good to explore some of that. And maybe it's more of a, you know, you can buy it and you're totally fine if you buy it. We are not against stuff. Go get some nice stuff. Christian, you have set yourself up very well. You make great money, you don't have debt,

you've lived below your means. Like you are doing great. You can buy the swatch. I just don't, John and I think our biggest caution with stuff is don't be under the illusion that it's going to fulfill you long term and that it's gonna bring some level of satisfaction because the way that things are marketed to us

and the belief in that and what we wear, I mean it is crazy the status symbols that are out there and what we believe and the thing is people get in trouble with that. So again, I'm not worried about you from a money perspective at all. I think you could probably buy two of these and you would be fine. But it's more about you long-term and who you are. Christian, you should ask John and Rachel, what kind of watches and how much should they pay for

theirs that we currently have? Huh? Oh, okay. Christian, I've got an Amazon watch for $15. John, what kind of watches do you have? This is such a flip of the script, which I love. I've got this dope Garmin watch. I love Garmin watches. It's a free ad for Garmin. They're the best. I love them. While we're on this topic, Rachel, tell us about how much your car that you rolled into the parking lot costs. Because mine costs $4,000. You? Anyways, Christian, you'll be fine. So here's the thing, Christian, we love nice stuff.

I'll also say this, if at 25 you can wrap your head around this idea, because you have chosen to live the way you live, you have the opportunity, and I didn't find this out until I was old, you can buy it once really nice. If you buy it with cash, if you buy a super nice pair of Wolverine thousand mile boots, you can re-sole them and you can take care of them and you can give them to your grandkids. But they're really expensive out of the gate, right?

And so if you say I want to buy a couple of really nice watches, I love them, I'm kind of a watch guy and that's cool and awesome and no, this will fill no gap in my soul. I won't feel any better about myself. In fact, I'll feel a little bit weird because I'm gonna see somebody who needs money the following day or whatever. I know some people who have a rule that if they buy something really nice, they give that amount away

or a percentage of that amount away just to balance their own soul out, whatever. But I love the idea of buying once and letting that just be that. Right, I'm going to buy a nice. Go ahead. I don't mean to extend this convert or like the question of it, but is there like a rule or a percentage of a net worth that you'd be, you know, like a percentage of my net worth that I could spend on a want that wouldn't necessarily obviously break the bank, but it's like, you're comfortable.

It's just, I love Dave saying like, if you can light it on fire, if you could take that pile of cash, if you can take 5,000 bucks, set it on fire on your kitchen table and watch it burn to ash. And you're okay. And you're okay. It won't prohibit you.

It doesn't affect your world. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's it. I mean, there's not really this like percentage. I mean, we say things like with cars, like we always say like things with motors and wheels, right, cars, campers, all that. Depreciating asset, yeah. No more than 50% of your annual income.

Like there's some things around that. But when you get to the point where you are, yeah, of, I mean, yeah, you're beyond baby step three and you just have extra cash that you wanna spend. So it just, you emotionally have to detach from that money. And if you can really do that and it doesn't keep you up at night, then you're good to go.

Well, and you could be pathological. I would love for you to also also get a nice watch, dude. You sound like you got a level head, man. Get a nice watch and also start laying the groundwork to get your money out of crypto, whatever nonsense you have it in, and buy yourself a house that nobody can ever take from you, right?

Some of those more stable assets that you can anchor into. Yeah, and into a well-balanced, and you're learning this early, Christian. I mean and into, you know, a well-balanced, and you're learning this early, Christian. I mean, honestly, I mean, this is stuff that it's like so good to have because where you are financially, but always remember with money that you can spend it, you can save it, you can give it, and we say on the show, we are fans of all three.

So as you continue to become more successful and continue to live below your means, you're going to continue to build wealth. You're going to have more and more savings. You're going to have the opportunity to spend some more, but also be having that generosity muscle as well because that is joy within money. And if you can get that early and live with it, there's a freedom and a joy there. That's unbelievable. So giving, saving, spending, doing all three. All right, Christian, have fun with your new watch. This is The Ramsey Show. Listen, people, what you call organized chaos is still chaos. This year, build some room in your

budget to get your life really organized. One tool that I recommend is a knockbox. As in next of kin, knockbox is a complete system that helps you organize important documents, accounts, IDs, tax returns, insurance policies, estate plans, and other personal history in one secure place. The 15 categories in your knockbox cover everything from health history and investments to your ancestry and even collectibles. So cut the clutter with a knockbox. Start getting organized today and receive an exclusive discount at knockbox.com slash Ramsey. That's n-o-k box dot com slash Ramsey. I think we'd all agree that it's a lot harder to run a race if you don't know where the finish line is.

But nearly half of all Americans have no idea how much money they'll need to retire with dignity. If you're ready to stop hoping for the best and start planning for your future, then check out the SmartVestor program. A SmartVestor Pro can teach you everything you need to know to get in the driver's seat of your own financial future. Connect with a pro at ramsysolutions.com slash SmartVestor. Ramsey Solutions is a paid, non-client promoter of participating pros. Learn more at ramsysolutions.com slash SmartVestor. Learn more at ramsysolutions.com slash smart vester. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. So the best way to take control of your money,

make the most of your money is to do a monthly budget, to know and have a plan on where your income's going. And every dollar makes this easy. It makes you have this honestly very intuitive way of how you plan your spending, how you track your spending, what you're saving for, makes you have this honestly very intuitive way of how you plan your spending, how you track your spending, what you're saving for, your giving goals. I mean, everything is in every dollar.

It really takes your income and walks you through how to have a plan for it and know where it's going. So you can download every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play, or you can click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcasts. Up next we have Dave in Springfield. Hey Dave, welcome to the show. Thank you guys for taking my call.

Absolutely, how can we help? So I'm 21, I'm about to be out of college this year. I have no debt, I paid it off as I went. But my girlfriend didn't and she's gonna have about $70,000. And every time I bring it up, she's just kind of like dismissive about it. And I don't really like wanna pay off her debt in a way. You know what I mean? And I'm just not sure how to go about this in the future.

You should just break up with her, dude. John. I'm serious. I mean, because here's the thing. You're both going to bring crap into this relationship, both of you. And some of it you'll know right away, like $70,000 in debt.

And if you're already thinking that's hers, and like, ugh, she's bringing this into this and I don't want any part of it. Like that's just a down the road. You're going to run into, oh, I want to raise kids like this But this is my how my dad did it Yeah, or I don't want to live in this neighborhood of this how like you're just like if that's the if that's your first impulse Is what about me then you're not ready to get married yet

If she has 70,000 dollars Does that make sense if she has 70,000 dollars of debt you're like dude I don't care what mountain I have to move you're're gonna be like, I want you to be my wife and I wanna build a life with you. Like hell or high water, you and I are paying this stuff off together, then awesome, you're off to the races. We would never tell you don't get married

because of student loan debt. So when I say just break up with her, does that give you peace or does that make you mad? A little bit of both, like me and her have been together a while. It's not that I don't wanna pay it off together. Is it more because of her attitude? I was more than happy. Yes, it's more of like she has no, like she doesn't want to pay it. It seems like she wants me to pay it. It's kind of like where I'm getting at.

Okay. What's beneath that? Where else does that show up in your relationship? Honestly, nowhere. Like she, I mean, she's a little unmotivated. Like she doesn't really, isn't really that ambitious like post college. She doesn't really want to do, she just kind of wants to do her thing, like live around the area and whatever. And I kind of been, like I've been an internship like in another city and I've been like, you know, exploring career opportunities. But she's kind of seems like stuck where she is. And I just like, I like to like her a lot and I want to be with her, but it's just like such a weird thing. I think y'all should explore that conversation.

Yeah, it's just like, I try to go further, but she's just like not interested in like continuing that conversation. You know what I mean? Beyond the money though, Dave, like, hey, this is, these are kind of, this is kind of what I value in life. This is what gives me energy. This is how I'm wired and what I'm excited about

and trying new things and opportunities. And it feels like you're more just, I don't know if that kind of life long-term is something that you wanna be a part of. So I think it's more of that conversation because what that leads to is her motivation around any, I mean anything in life, right? Money, career, kids, yeah, cleanliness, how does the house look, where do we live, and here's what I'm, here's the, like if you ask me what my big fear for you all right now is,

and I'm not judging you for this, I'm just calling it out, there's already a piece of you that feels like, well, I'm doing this and you're not doing that. Or to put it in the nerd terms, you're already in the scorekeeping world. Yeah, I can understand that. I just like, when I look at both of of our situations, like I think of everything I've done to get to where I am now. I've worked so hard to be debt free right now.

And she just kind of like took the shortcut and it feels like an adrenaline. It just feels weird for me. But here's the question. You're asking her to go back in time and sign up for values that you had before you all started dating. And that's not fair. I hear that about sex. I hear that about sex, I hear that about money, I hear that about debt, about,

well I did all of this stuff and we just met and now we're doing this and I don't feel like they, dot dot dot, they didn't sign up for that set of values. The question is, will she agree to live a debt-free life moving forward with you because you say, that's the way I feel like our family will be the most safe moving into the 21st century. And if she says, eh, I don't care,

now y'all have a values issue and you're, it's less about, y'all have the same beliefs. Me and my wife have way different beliefs on all kinds of stuff. But one of our core values is if one of us raises a flag and says, this is a huge deal to me, the other person says, well, I don't give a crap, I'm in. I'm in.

And so if you're honest and say, this really is important to me. The other person says, well, I don't give a crap. I'm in. I'm in. And so if you're honest and say, this really is important to me that we commit before we get married, I never want this family to be owned by a bank, by a car dealership, by whatever. And she's like, oh, I'm gonna have a Tahoe. Then just know that y'all are gonna have problems. Like insurmountable problems, because they're value problems. Yeah, definitely. Does that make sense? I hate to be the bearer of bad news, man. I feel like I just ruined your effort. That's all good. I understand, man.

Um, but I want you to also be very careful, because you're not better than her. You just took a different... Yeah, I'm not saying that. I know, I know, I know. But that frustration builds up, and that's how it comes out. Yeah. Is, I've done all this, and know. But that frustration builds up and that's how it comes out. Yeah. Is I've done all this and you haven't done anything, right? And so it's kind of like, okay, can we agree on values?

But almost always those values conversations, brother, start with you sitting down saying, I'm scared about X, Y, and Z. It's important to me that our family never be owned by somebody, are you in on that? That means we're gonna have to sacrifice here We're gonna have to work really hard for two years after get married to pay off your debts And that means you're gonna get a full-time job all those kind of things

But it starts with you saying what you really feel. What do you think Rachel? Yeah. No, that's all I was gonna say I mean, this is like kind of a classic example what we say on the show Like people call in about a money issue, you know, she has student loan debt I don't know if I want to marry her And it's not as much about the student loan debt, it's more about the values around the relationship. And, cause when we have people that call here all the time, like, yeah, my wife has $80,000 in student loan debt, I brought some credit card debt in

and we're working to pay it off together. I mean, like it's a team effort there. And as you get into marriage, the less of a team you are and see each other as one and you're on each other's side, both of you, right? She's jumping into your boat, you're jumping into her. I mean, it's just this idea of like, you guys value the same thing together.

It's not that life is necessarily easier, but there is a level of smoothness with that. I'm like, you're not running up against barriers constantly because of what you're desiring versus what she's desiring. Yeah, the world will give you enough resistance. Yes. You can't be fighting your partner while you're also trying to take on the world. It has to be you, y'all two versus the world. Yep. Right? Otherwise it just gets sideways really quick. Yep. So, and it sounds like you guys have been dating a while, Dave, is what you said. And you guys are still young. And so maybe is what you said, and you guys are still young.

And so maybe you started dating at 16 and you're a different person at 16 than 21. I mean, that's. It's heartbreaking, but it is. Rachel, like, man, on my show, on the other show that I'm a part of, I get this all the time. I chose to not drink in high school and college

and this person did. And so now, right? And I always want people to go back and say, you can't judge somebody on values they didn't have before you met them. The question is, can we unite right now? And if you can't get over that, then you can't bring,

you're bringing baggage to the relationship. Right, right. And I think it's always a balance in marriage too and in relationships is that, then you can't bring, you're bringing baggage to the relationship. Right, right. And I think it's always a balance in marriage too, and in relationships, is that, you know, we always say opposites attract, right? It's like the old saying. And it is true, you're both gonna have different levels of passion about different things.

So it's not about becoming this like one individual person when you get married, you still are two individual people. But you're in the same boat. But that's it, like it's like, but we're still moving in the exact same direction, right? Winston's still gonna have 18 Excel sheets with stuff, you know, out till we're 65

and I'm not gonna know how to work them. Like that will always be the case, but we are still working towards the same goals. And so the way we go about those things is different. And our interests are different in life, but it doesn't, yeah, it doesn't conflict with the values of our home and how our family unit is being driven. And that's where it gets sticky.

And if that's a red flag early, Dave, I mean, it's something to at least talk about. And I'll give you guys this, not to like, I don't wanna belittle you cause you're young, but I'm like, y'all are still figuring this out. She's still figuring this out, you know? So have that conversation with her, but I would not break up with her

because of the student loan debt. I would very much possibly break up if you guys cannot get to a set of values and I would not take a step into engagement until those are consistent. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey guys, Rachel Cruz here. All right, I'm about to say what everyone already knows, but budgeting is a good thing to do.

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Every dollar keeps budgeting simple and stress free, just the way you want it. So go download the app for free and get started today. Again, go download Every Dollar today. Welcome back, up next we have Jessica in Los Angeles. Hey Jessica, welcome to the show. Hi, how are you? We're doing well. How can we help? So I'm just wondering how to go about finding the baby steps where my largest debt is to

my grandmother who helped us. Yeah. All right, tell us, yeah, how much how much do you owe her? $6,000 now. $6,000? Yeah, and that is from a credit card that she co-signed with my fiance so he could start his own business. Oh, wow, what a nice grandma.

I'm telling you. OK, and so what's your other debt? In total we are $10,344 in debt. That's including our property taxes, our utilities, and our $2200 in other credit card debt. Are you behind on your utilities and property taxes? Yes, so the thing is my grandmother is pretty persistent in reminding us about the credit card debt. So we kind of, for example, his last check was $4,500. We gave her $2,000 to try to bring that debt down. But the issue with that is then we rely on that credit card because he's on the road a lot of times. hey Jessica are you able to talk into

your phone a little bit more we're trying to get a clearer oh no you're fine you're fine okay so yes so she's persistent she's wanting her payment she's she wants her six thousand how much you guys make a year? So he's been doing this business on his own for six months now. In the six months he's made about $60,000. Okay. And how much do you make? I don't work at the moment. We're going through a new life transition. We're newly sober and I'm trying to get our house back into a livable condition.

Basically we've only been sober for 40 days, but you know, we just kind of our whole life is chaos and so since getting sober, we're trying to figure out how to be like functioning adults, you know, priorities and learning how to be, you know, normal, I guess. Well, let me tell you this, Jessica. Number one, I'm super, super proud of you. Congratulations. Thank you.

That's awesome. The second thing is, and I know you've probably heard this over and over and over in your meetings, but you have to, have to, have to, have to, have to go get a job ASAP. It doesn't have to be a full-time job, and it for sure is not going to be your dream job or your passion job or whatever. But think of it

this way, if you think of alcohol like yourself chained to a bottle, you've been unchained for 40 days, but grandma calling you, the government calling you, your utilities possibly going to get cut off, that's like a squat rack. It's like you're sitting under a squat rack and you got a squat bar on your back and so now you're unchained but you still can't run free. And so what I'm telling you is if you go get a job even working 20 hours, you clock in, you clock out and you're baby stepping your way into full-time employment, getting your feet underneath you, you're 40 days sober, you're still, and you're baby-stepping your way into full-time employment, getting your feet underneath it. You're 40 days sober. Your legs are still wobbly,

and I get it. Every minute you're making a choice to do the next right thing. If you go get a job working 15 hours a week, 20 hours a week, and you can contribute to this thing, it will be like putting... It will be like jet fuel to your life change. I mean, Jessica, if you could make three grand a month, you guys could be completely debt free in three months. In three months. I mean, with his income, everything. So I would tell grandma, okay, our goal, grandma,

is it's February, March, April, our goal is by the end of May, by the end of May, you will be paid. But we first have to take care of these back property taxes. Yes. Because the government's right there. We're gonna pay those off this month, grandma. I mean, you could even show her your, you will be paid. But we first have to take care of these back property taxes. Yes. Because the government's right there. We're going to pay those off this month, Grandma. I mean, you could even show her your, you know, you guys make a timetable and say how many hours to work.

I would give her a payment schedule. Because my guess is Grandma's calling because y'all have had challenges in the past. And she's worried. And you haven't been accountable. She wants to make sure she gets her money back. So you and husband make a map. Here's a 12 month payment schedule. We're gonna pay you this much, 250 bucks every month or whatever it is. And then you will be paid off by this date. She's not hassling you. She can check it off every month.

But like Rachel said, you can't keep Rob and Peter to pay Paul. They're gonna cut your lights off. They're gonna take your house away. So I know grandma's hassling you and as she should be, and she's frustrated, but you can't let them take her home, right? So let's get a payment schedule and give it to her.

Yeah, and have a goal. If you guys live on his income, and Jessica, you bring home two to three grand a month. You know, you could do that with some part-time jobs. We're talking fast food. We're talking just clock in. Yeah, I mean, for sure. We'll go work at Target, go Uber,

or like do something that really, yeah, allows you to just earn some extra income. I mean, even if it's, you know 20 an hour, 25 an hour, do it. You need some little wins. And I'm telling you, it'll be so transformative. I'm so excited for you. Good job, Jessica. I hope that helps.

Up next, we have Sharon in Cleveland. Hi, welcome to the show. Hi, thank you for having me, guys. You're so welcome. How can we help? So I have a kid going off to college next year and I am in a ton of debt I have not made good financial choices or money choices I've never learned how to be totally honest

Um, but that's not an excuse. I just don't I just haven't made the good choices And so it was recommended to me to file bankruptcy and I just need to know if that's even like a wise thing to do. I have a lot of credit card debt. Okay walk me through your debts real quick. How much debt? Okay so I have student loans. I know that bankruptcy doesn't take care of those. So I have over a hundred thousand in student loans I believe. Like right at a hundred or like 120? I think it's about 125. 125 in student loans. Okay, keep going. I have about 20,000 in credit card debt. Okay.

I just had to buy a new car because my old car clunked out on me. That one was paid off. So now I have a car loan. How much is the car? I'm at 26,000. Okay. is what I own my car. Okay. And then I have two civil suits from credit card companies. Okay, and how much are those? One is $9,000 and the other is $6,000. Okay.

And how much do you make a year? I make $30,000 a year. I work in ministry for my church. You can't do that anymore. Sharon, I'm so sorry. I know. You have to let them know that you love them. But yeah, you can't breathe, hon. I can't. Yeah.

Yeah. And I know you want to do this ministry and I know you do good work for people, but you got to take care of your family and you've dug yourself a pretty big hole but and you got to go get it. What's your degree in? I have a communications degree and a master's in education. Okay. What would you if you weren't doing what you're doing now do what's like probably the most realistic next step career-wise for you do you think? Probably going back into the school system. Okay, and how much how much would starting out be if you if you started as a teacher? Probably about 45 40 became 40 and 45. Okay. Okay

So that would be that would be my next step. I would go talk to them tomorrow. I mean, I hate to say it math. It's a 50% raise. Let me put it that way. And 45 is not enough, but that's a 50% raise. Yeah, that you know, and I think to, you know, nonprofit ministry work, all of that. I mean, we are big fans of people in those worlds. And, and maybe eventually that's your goal to get back there. Right? I mean, if you could imagine having no payments, having an emergency fund, having a great retirement set up, and you're like, you know,

I can go back to 35, because I have everything set up, right? That would be a goal for you, which I think is amazing. But for right now, reality, it would be that. So what I would do is your car, I would sell it. I would sell your car tomorrow. Sell it, because I mean, it's basically how much you make in a year.

And I would go get a $5,000 car. If you can get a difference, I wonder how much, have you, Kelly Blue Book did it all? I know you just bought it, but have you seen, have you looked up if you could sell it? No, I haven't, but I will. Okay. Even if you have to take? No, I haven't, but I will. Okay. Even if you have to take $5,000 down to the credit union

and you're upside down on it, I'd rather you do that. Because then you own the O10,000, you're gonna take a $5,000 loan out, pay the difference off, because you're upside down, and take out a $5,000 loan by car. Was it a brand new car or was it used when you bought it? No, it was brand new. It was brand new, okay, so you'll you bought it? No, it was brand new. It was brand new.

Okay, so you'll probably take, yeah, you'll take a hit. So hopefully you could still get maybe like, you could maybe sell it for 21, 22. You'll take a little bit of a smaller loan for a difference to get you a $4,000 car. And that'll at least free up that car payment. But no, do not, do not, do not file bankruptcy. You're not there yet.

Hang in the line, look up with Financial Peace University and the Every Dollar Premium app for free and give you the education that you're missing. But do not file bankruptcy. You're not there yet. This is the Ramsey Show. Thanks for watching!