The Ramsey Show - Break the Cycle of Financial Self-Sabotage

Episode Date: February 13, 2025

📈 Are you on track with the Baby Steps? Get a Free Personalized Plan Rachel Cruze & Dr. John Delony answer your questions and discuss: "I can't afford my mortgage after divorce," "I'm conflicted about staying home with my son," "Should I buy a home with my boyfriend?," "Budgeting for kid’s travel sports in Baby Step 2," "I don't trust my husband enough to have joint bank accounts," "I feel like my business is unevenly split" Support Our Sponsors: 🌱 Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp ◎ Get 10% off Byrna product bundles and more! 🏥 Learn more about Christian Healthcare Ministries 🏡 Get started today with Churchill Mortgage 🔒 Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe 🏦 Go to FAIRWINDS Credit Union for an exclusive account bundle! 🥗 Save 15% on your first Field of Greens order with code RAMSEY ⛨ Find top Health Insurance Plans at Health Trust Financial 💸 To find out more about student loan refinancing, check out Laurel Road 💻 Visit NetSuite today to learn more 🗂️ Use promo code RAMSEY for 18% off at The Nokbox 💵 Learn more about Timothy Plan 🏛 Get started with YRefy or call 844-2-RAMSEY 🔐 Visit Zander Insurance for your free instant quote today! Next Steps 📱Watch the full episode for free in the Ramsey Network app. 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET or click here! 📙 Check out George Kamel's Breaking Free From Broke today. 💵 Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app! 🏖️ Invest in Your Future With a SmartVestor Pro 🪑 Check out Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman! ❤️ Strengthen your marriage in Nashville this Fall 💼 Connect with a RamseyTrusted tax pro for help with payroll and more Listen to more from Ramsey Network 🎙️ The Ramsey Show   🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 💰 George Kamel 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions is a paid, non-client promoter of SmartVestor Pros. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Live from Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my good friend and best-selling author, Dr. John Deloney. And we are answering your questions. So give us a call at triple eight, eight two five, five two two five. And I feel like we need to give a little shout out.

This weekend is our money and marriage getaway. We have 600- Valentine's weekend. So we have 600 couples coming to Nashville and there's a bunch of them here in our lobby today watching the show, which is so fun. So we are here though live taking your calls. So give us a call.

We're talking about your life, your money, your relationships. And first up we have Brian in Billings, Montana. Hey Brian, welcome to the show. Hey guys, thanks for having me. What's up dude? Absolutely, how can we help? Um, so my soon to be ex wife and I bought a house, um, a year ago last February. And then this last October,

she decided that she wanted a divorce. Um, she already moved out and I decided to try and keep the house by myself. Um, after we purchased the house, she racked up like $10,000 in credit card debt. And I've been working really hard to get this down, but it seems like after all the bills that I pay every month, I have like maybe an extra $100 I can throw at it. And it just seems like at this rate, it's going to take forever to pay these credit cards off.

And I don't know if it's smart to keep or sell the house at this point. Were the credit cards in your name that she racked up after the divorce? They were. Yes. They were. And was this after the divorce? No, it was, we were still. Still legally married.

Okay. At that point. Yeah. Can you afford to keep his place? So I make like $4,400 a month and the house payment is $2,360. Yeah, dude. You is $2,360. Yeah, dude. You can't breathe, bro.

What do you do for a living, Brian? I'm an electrician apprentice. And hopefully next month I'll be able to take my German exams so I would get a significant pay bump. Yeah, what would that look like? How much, in an ideal world, how much would you be making? Probably around $38 to 40 an hour. Okay but per month if you're at 4,400 right now what would you expect it to climb to? Like 6,000? Yeah that's the hope. Okay and what's the reality of that

actually happening? I'd say there's probably, I don't know, 60% chance that I'd be able to make that happen. And that's going to happen in the next month or two? Is that what you're saying? Yeah. Okay. I would wait then, cause in that case, I mean, if you're making, yeah, I mean, if you're making six grand a month, then that's about a quarter of your take home pay. I mean, that's basically, that is the parameters. But you gotta get it.

Yeah, I mean, that has to be the case, Brian. And I think you have to emotionally be able to detach yourself that if it doesn't happen the way you think it's gonna happen, that you can't afford it. You can't afford this house on 4,400 a month. Yeah. And I mean, brother, it's pretty tight on six.

Yeah. It's real tight. It is, I mean, it's tight right now. Yeah. Especially. So why do you wanna keep his house? Like, let's pretend you weren't married, making what you make now, and even what you might potentially make, would you walk in and buy this house?

No, but the main thing for keeping it at the moment is that there's not any equity in it, and so we're probably gonna have to pay to even sell the house. Yeah but even if you have to pay three percent or whatever you're like I just see most couples that go through divorce one person wants the divorce just to happen and then the rest of their life just keep going on as it was and it feels like you're bleeding money everywhere you got this debt here you got lawyer it feels like you're bleeding money everywhere. You got this debt here, you got lawyer fees over there, you're going to get court docket fees, you're going to get

feed to death. And it's like playing whack-a-mole with all these different bills. The only folks I see be successful in this transition, dude, are folks who understand everything about my life that was is now over. And really like metaphorically taking your arm and just swiping it across the table and saying, okay, would I buy this house right now? No. Okay. Then I'm going to spend five grand getting out of it. Yeah.

Is the main motivation, Brian, to stay in because you feel like you're going to lose money or their kids involved and you're wanting to stay in for them or what, what's the main motivation? Uh, just the main is just because of the money aspect. I mean, I don't really- I'd call a realtor and get an actual real number in your head. What's making you think that,

well, cause you guys just bought it a year, like six months ago. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, it's basically in, I feel like an updated monthly report on it. And it's basically worth what we bought it for. And you'll have to pay capital gains cause it's been under two years as well.

Yeah, there'll be no gain. Oh, that's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I would get a realtor dude, I'd get a realtor and get real numbers. And run some comps too, Brian, because I, yeah, that's right, I think there's probably a lot of emotion wrapped up in this and...

I have written a check, I wrote a check one time for like $4,600 to get out of a house and it's the it's the best It's it's one of the best money I've ever spent ever ever ever and they say nobody brings a check to closing you get one right I did I brought one and Yeah, within two months. I had basically paid myself back if you will and that started my entire Process again. Yeah, getting out of debt and just stop being chained to everything. Yeah, and I think to underestimating the weight

of feeling like I have to keep up a mortgage payment, it's your home. Like, do you know what I mean? Like there's an extra weight there that you're carrying because of it. It's not like a car loan that you can sell and kind of figure out. When it's your home,

there's like this desperation that sets in and not always making wise decisions. And I realized my math was bad. Yeah, it's 37%. It was 30, but it was 30, it wasn't 45. It's still pretty high. It was like 38, 39%. I'd sell it, dude. Yeah. Unless they come back and say you're going to lose 60 or 70,000 bucks. How much does

this house cost when you bought it? We financed $295. Okay. Yeah. You'll probably spend up to 10 or 15 grand to write a check to get out. And that will be a pain. That will be painful on top of everything else. How are you doing with the divorce mess? Uh, it's, it is what it is, I guess. No it's not.

It's not. That's not a real statement. That's what dudes from Montana say when they're trying to stop from just from weeping. Yeah, how are you? You know, I'm not that great. The past few months have been pretty pretty bad. You have little ones involved? Yeah, we have a 19 month old baby.

And we're just trying to Oh man. You know, we're just trying to navigate co-parenting at this point, but yeah, I don't know. She just decided after three years that she was dumb and called it quits. I'm sorry, man. I'm sorry. You too, it kind of came out of nowhere.

I really did not see it coming and her parents and my parents and really nobody thought coming and I think she's going through her own issues. Yeah. Yeah, but there's also something about not being able to hold your baby every night of the week that it's hard to breathe, right? I get that. It is. Yeah, I'm sorry, man. Is it final, Brian, the divorce? No, it will be final next month. Okay, so terms and everything with the house, like all of that is completed? Okay, so terms and everything with the house, like all of that is completed. No, I mean, technically we still, uh, we filed the court documents and all that stuff. We just have to go to the final hearing. She was signing the house over.

Well, and maybe you pause that and say I'm going to sell it and y'all are going to split the cost of you getting out of the mortgage and you and or your attorney can make a case for it. I can't afford this on my current salary, so I'm gonna have to sell it. And since she's the one who left, then I'm gonna ask her to bear the entire or at least half of the burden of selling this house

and getting out of it. Yeah, keeping it, Brian, was probably an emotional knee-jerk reaction for you. But now that stuff is settling and it's not finalized, I mean, it's an option for sure because yeah, calling the show, running the numbers, you can't afford it unless, unless your income bumps up to eight to nine grand a month. But besides that, it's not worth it. So I would figure a way out.

Everybody who gets divorced, it just feels so common. Yeah. Everybody I talk to underestimates how disruptive and how destructive it is. Just blows up everything. So difficult. Brian, thanks for the call. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 different answers.

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slash Ramsey. It's free at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. Welcome back to the Ramsey show. And we are so excited. We said here in the first segment that we have a lobby full of attendees for our money and marriage getaway this weekend. And we're so excited to announce the fall weekend events of Money and Marriage. Coming back in 2025.

So these are three incredible days to hang out with your spouse here in Nashville. And you'll join myself and John for a long weekend. And we're gonna dive into some great content around money and around marriage, relationships, all of it. And we do live Q and A's. We interact a lot. I just feel like there's like this energy

about this event that is so fun. It is such a fun weekend. And we're pumped to do it this weekend and pumped that it is coming again this fall. So if you go to ramsesolutions.com slash events, we are so excited. Oh, it's November 6th through 8th. I was trying to find the dates.

So November 6th through 8th, 6th through 8th, it is here in Nashville. Early bird pricing is happening right now. Tickets start at $749, so get yours before prices go up because they will continue to go up. And we even have some limited VIP tickets with a meet and greets and some other fun stuff. So those are available as well.

And by the way, we intentionally keep this at about half the price of what weekend retreats are. And we intentionally, like we could shove another 1500 people in this auditorium, we intentionally undersell it. So we like as a team, we choose to make less money so we can get people in here that when they leave, it's not just three days of talking at somebody,

it's three days of like, dude, you and I are both married, we're trying to figure this thing out too. It's everybody in a room figuring this thing out together. It's my favorite thing that I'm a part of, it's awesome. Yeah, it's so, so fun. So again, excited to announce some new dates, November 6th through the 8th of 2025. And they dropped us right smack in the middle of deer season

for a whole weekend, which is super not cool. We did not consult John's hunting schedule. How dedicated I am to this thing. Wow, what a selfless servant you are. Kind of like a public servant, just being here with all of us in November. Thank you, John. Listen, my family will starve, but marriages will be saved. That's right.

That's all we want. That's all we want. Oh, man. So, so fun. All right. Let's go to Elizabeth in Philadelphia. Hi, Elizabeth. Welcome to the show.

Hi. How are you both? We are doing great. How can we help? Well, thank you for taking my call. So I'll cut to the chase. I'm a licensed roller. I'm working towards my broker's license.

While I'm in class now, I have chosen this past year to stay at home with our son and I'm feeling some regret about staying home and I'm struggling with how to be content in that decision. You know, how can I make peace with this choice and still pursue my career goals without feeling like I'm not contributing enough financially? Okay, so that's what I was going to ask. What's the discontentment over?

Is it that you're bored at home? Is it that you miss your career, that you feel guilt that you're not bringing in money? Where is this coming from? I think it's a mix. I've always had, I've been in the mental health field since I graduated college and always had that job as director role and had, you know, and had a consistent paycheck. Real estate came into my life about nine years ago and that was always bonus. So that was always on the side and when I eventually have a family, I can focus on that. And, you know, and so always have as a side hustle, my husband's in mortgages. It's been a roller coaster last couple of years,

but with the hustle, you know, side hustles and so forth, we've saved some money and, and you know, my son's only two. Uh, we both agreed I can, you know, continue to focus on real estate and stay at home. So I guess that's been a challenge for me. I'm always on the go, going to work. Um, and, and so I just, I'm having a hard time with that. Although it's a very, it's a wonderful thing. I'm still technically working, but I guess that's just not clicking, you know, for me, if that makes sense. No, absolutely. You know, I think it's, I think it's hard when you go from one speed

to the other, it can, it does feel like whiplash. And this need to feel like what felt normal is no longer normal and it's not comfortable because of that. And so I do wonder Elizabeth, because you're a high producer, you know, I can hear it in your personality. You like productivity, you like to do things. And so I'm wondering for you, number one, is there a level of a hybrid?

You know, I mean, I think it's okay to always decide, okay, this isn't what I was thinking it was going to be and make a different decision, right? No one's holding you captive to stay home full-time unless you and your husband agree like that's a value of ours and you wanna keep that value longer. But I'm like, in my head, you can always kinda shuffle around and say,

okay, I've been trying this, it's not working. Maybe I go part-time. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing, stay home completely or work, you know, 80 hours a week or something. That hybrid, or even the routine around the home, how can you make it mirror your productivity? So you at least feel like, yeah, I'm still staying at home,

that's what I wanted to do, but it's still matching your personality. Does that make sense? It makes a little sense. And believe me, I'll make, there's never a moment where I'm sitting. And I wonder if that's an issue though. That's it.

Is that an issue though? Yeah, my friend. That's where John will come in. My friend Ian Simpkins says, if busyness is your drug, rest will feel like stress. And I'm talking to two moms, so I cannot stand when dudes are like, all right, ladies, here's what you're feeling.

Here's what you should do. I'm not doing that at all, but I wanna pose these questions. You have entered into what I think, from the outside, looks like the great guilt factory that is modern motherhood. And there was a whole bunch of people that told you, if you drink like a man, earn like a man, like if you buy into that nonsense, by the way, men kill themselves more, they

die younger. Like if you buy into that track that you you'll quote unquote feel a certain way. And then there's this other side of it that is, how dare you do that? You've got this kid at home, moms who outsource child care are some sort of like lizard person or less than, and you thought, okay, I'm going to quit all of this and it's going to quote unquote feel a certain way. And in both situations, you went with you. And so if you've been running for something for a long time or you run and move as a way to try to outrun ghosts that have been hounding you since you were a little kid, if you're constantly on the move, yeah, sitting at home and facing the fact, can we just all say this, parents, parenting can be super boring.

It can be like catastrophically boring. There's only so much cha-cha in getting thrown up on and washing, I mean, it's, it's, it's mundane. Yeah, it's just over and over. It's a complete selflessness versus coming to work and interacting with other adults. You know what I mean? Like it is a complete giving of yourself. Yes. So I think, yeah, what Rachel said, I think is so important is none of these decisions are forever. And if you and your husband hold them lightly and say, okay, we're going to try this for six months. And then you be honest about, I'm kind of going bananas. I need to go talk to a therapist. I need a group of friends. By the way, I think every stay at home mom needs to have a gang. This idea that when we go home and you're stuck in a house with a crying baby, it's

never happened in human history. And we call, we tell moms y'all are the problem. That's insane, right? So you got to get a gang, all that stuff. Is any of this ring true? Oh, a hundred percent. You know, and I think, I think, you know, what has recently stopped, like, and this is Tommy, you need me to stop, but you know, I always, always

contributing to my 401k. Now it's like, well, I can only do that. That's on pause. My husband does it. He has his 401k. It's like certain things have stopped, right? But we have financially like put that security in so, you know, we can hold off on that for a little bit. Hey Elizabeth, contributing to a human being is infinitely more valuable than a 401k. You're okay, you're okay. Yeah. Yes.

And that doesn't mean getting barfed on isn't any less fun. So much of our worth is- Financial, it's a number. It is poured into that. And it is this value of here's what I bring in from a dollars and sits perspective. And even that, even you mentioned the 401k, Elizabeth,

like that is ingrained in you. What are you worth? And we answer that with a number. And that's insane. And unwinding that, I think is gonna be a really important part of this journey for you, because for so often, again, I'm gonna say women, because I'll speak for myself,

that are proactive, you're productive, you do things. There is a value, it can be like a drug, you get something out of it. There's a cause and effect and I get to see it. I've got to prove that I have worth. Yeah, and it feels good. And then when all that stops and there's silence there, that's the monster you have to face.

There's no silence, there's just, can I have a snack, can I have a snack, can I have a snack? I know, so yeah, so give yourself some Grace Elizabeth for sure. But yeah, it's one of the hardest limbo's for a mom, and I feel that every day between the kids and the job. I get it. You know, one of the first things I discovered

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Zander is the real deal and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years. I trust them and you can too. Visit zander.com for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch give them a call at 800-356-4282. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show and as we've mentioned every segment we're going to because they're fantastic. We have an incredible crowd here today at Ramsey Solutions and as you can watch the show live from the lobby

on the glass, right next to the lobby, right in front of us as well, is the debt-free stage. And people that stand on the stage do a debt-free scream. And today we have Tommy and Rebecca on the stage. Welcome you guys. Hey, how you doing? Doing great. So glad that you're here.

All right. Where y'all in from? California, Corona, California. Well, you can't get out of debt if you're from California. That's true. In Corona, California. That's pretty fun. Okay, you guys.

So you're from California. Kamin, are you guys here for the weekend? Yeah, we're doing the Money in Marriage event. Amazing. So great. Okay, so how much debt did you guys here for the weekend? Yeah, we're doing the money and marriage event. Amazing, so great. Okay, so how much debt did you guys pay off? We paid off 644,000. Oh my gosh. Okay, so what does that include?

Dang, Gia. We're weird people. Paid off the house. Paid off the house. You, you. Yes, you did. Okay, how much of the 640 was the house, or was that it? It was the whole mortgage.

So paid off the house completely. Oh my gosh, okay, how long did the 640 was the house or was that it? It was the home mortgage. So paid off the house completely. Oh my gosh, okay, how long did that take? Three years. Three years and what kind of money were you making during that time? Joint 350,000. Okay, oh my gosh you guys. Okay, but that still doesn't cover, I mean y'all.

We had savings. And so part of the process was letting go of the savings. I was more of the hoarder because I came from really humble beginnings. And so I felt like having a large safety net made me feel warm and fuzzy in that security blanket. So when Tommy got me into the Financial Peace University, it was kind of like he had to explain,

babe, this is crazy what we're paying in interest on the mortgage. Yeah, for sure. So you were the math nerd. Yeah, yeah. Running all the numbers. Yeah, I was big into Ramsey, watching it all the time, but we purchased the house, right,

as we got married three years ago. We were blended family. We have three daughters between us. And I was looking at the amortization schedule and I just couldn't believe the amount of money that we were gonna end up paying. We bought it on a 30 year, so we were not really on the plan.

And once I was realizing that, I started kinda talking to her more and more about it. We need to pay it off. And at first, I probably turned Dave's name into a cuss word in the house. Yeah, uh huh. Okay, so how long have you guys been married? Three years.

Three years, okay, when did all this conversation about selling the house start? Right before marriage? Or paint it off, not selling it. I'm sorry, thank you, paint it off. I think shortly after we bought the house, I was looking and I started getting anxiety and stressed out about how much money we were gonna spend.

So I started kinda trying to work my way into it and talking to her about it. Oh, he came in hot and I was like, what? I was like, you are crazy, what are you talking about? Like everyone has a mortgage, like this is no big deal. But as we went through Financial Peace University, I was like, oh, this kinda makes sense. Like, okay, all right, I think we could do this.

But it was kinda more of getting me on board because it was crazy. I haven't known anyone to pay off their house. So to me, it was crazy. Okay, I want to hear from you. I want to hear about your, you have a tension that I think so many Americans have that we don't talk about it.

This both survivalist, like you grew up without a whole lot, me too, like and so you kind of know this can all go away and at the same time you get that job and you're kind of successful and you get to have all the stuff that nobody ever you were never able to have and so you live in this constant tension of it's all going to go away and so maybe you have a deep freezer full of I don't know hot dogs or whatever but then also you're just buying stuff all the time. Tell me about that tension that you lived with. Well, for me it's, you know, it's a different lifestyle.

We just, we do really well and we're very blessed, but at the same time we still have those same traditional feelings, like we both wear socks with holes in them, you know? Because we're both the savers. And so it's crazy to have so much money and income and be able to pay off the house when we're still the saver type.

And it's almost like your emotions haven't caught up to the math. No, and like we just- To sit in the reality of what it's really reality. We just paid off the house last month because we knew he booked this money in marriage and we were like, we're gonna pay it off and do this death re-screen.

And so it hasn't even sunk in yet. Like this is still so fresh for us that it's like, this is crazy. Have you had the checks deposit and you don't have a mortgage to send them to yet? Yeah, no. We had one, yeah. We got to skip one house payment

by the time of coming here. So it was like, what? It's the next one that y'all will be weird and then next month you'll look at each other and be like, I think we're rich. It's so crazy. Okay, so tell me what, cause I love that it's been three years.

This has been like a short journey for you guys. I mean, for the most part. And so when you went from, okay, is this a good idea? I don't know, it's not that big of a deal, no one pays off their house. Kind of that normal mindset, right, which is very normal. Tell me about the emotions between just that, like okay, I don't know, to actually having it paid off.

Yeah, I think for me, I was always like, oh no, we need the mortgage to have the tax write-off, right, and he's like, what are you talking about? And then to get to this side, it's like, oh, we don't have the mortgage anymore. This is, I mean, the way I would describe it is just mind blown. And especially because I don't know anyone else

who's paid off the house. And so for us, it's totally, we're the weirdos, like he said. I found out there's a whole bunch of people who've paid their house off, and it's kind of like the guy at the bar who just says, excuse me, because he knows he can beat up everybody

and he didn't have to bark and prove it. You'll find out there's a whole bunch of people who've paid it off, they just don't feel like they have to talk about it because they have peace in their life. They haven't approved anybody anymore, right? And then they can go buy socks, they don't have holes in them, too.

It's fantastic. So what's a thing y'all are gonna work towards to buy now? No big purchases, we wanna retire early. So we're just both savers. So like, why not fuel off of that and build towards early retirement? That's the goal. Will you make a commitment to me and Rachel?

Yes. Before you leave Nashville? Yes. Y'all here for the money marriage weekend? Yeah. Before you leave, I like to think of Nashville as the sock and underwear capital of America. We all go get some socks. We'll buy socks.

I do want to get some cowboy boots actually. Yes, go get a nice pair of boots. That's what you guys need. Saturday evening after the event, y'all go downtown. You can get 19 pair of boots for like four bucks or whatever, get some hats and that'd be fantastic. Were the girls, were they part of this? How much did you involve the kids?

So they were involved in the sense of like saving, like, hey, we need to cut back on eating out. This, you know, that really builds up over time. And they're like, but why? But we did keep this kind of private for ourselves. We wanted to do the journey and when they're old enough, we'll explain it to them and the importance of it, but we didn't really get them too deep involved on it.

Yes, no, that's great, that's great. I know, it's so interesting, each family, because then those girls, as they grow up, their normal baseline is like, oh yeah. It's peace, yeah. You just have a paid for house, that's what you do. The normal you're setting is part of changing that family tree.

It's not just the financial legacy, but it's this mindset of how you view and see money. Let me make one more quick observation. Both of y'all, this is marriage number two. Yes. Yep. The fact that you guys came together and did not just throw your feet up on the couch and say, we're just gonna give us another whirl,

but whatever happened in your past, y'all entered into this new marriage, blending a family, which is hard, a picture of your girls came up, just stunning younger, I mean, brother, you're in for a mess, my man. But here's the deal, y'all put some hurdles in your way immediately and y'all overcame them.

And so I want y'all to remember back to this point when y'all get sideways with each other, which you will, every marriage does, y'all can do anything, right? Y'all did it right out of the gate. It's amazing. So proud of you. So great.

All right, you guys, we got Tommy and Rebecca from Southern California. They paid off $640,000, which is their house and three years making $350,000. All right, you guys, let's hear a debt-free scream. Count it down. Three, two, one. We're debt-free!

Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Amazing. It's time to go sock shopping in America.

And that's how it's done. God, we don't get a lot of houses. We've gotten some recently. We get some, yeah. But that's the pinnacle. But they're bucking every trend. California can't pay it off, it's impossible. It's this, it takes two people saying,

let's just go get this thing done. It's awesome, three years. So beautiful. Three years! Incredible, incredible. Tommy and Rebecca, you guys are amazing. Absolutely amazing. This is. Incredible, incredible. Tommy and Rebecca, you guys are amazing. Absolutely amazing. This is The Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

You've probably heard people talk about different kinds of flags and friendships and romantic relationships. Red flags, green flags, beige flags. Listen, it can be helpful to look for patterns or unsafe behaviors in potential relationships, but all those labels can distract from what's really important. Your values and whether you and your potential partner are willing

to wake up every day and choose to honor each other's values. And look, I know it can be tough sometimes to even know what's important to you in a relationship. Therapy can help you figure out what your values actually are and decide your boundaries and your non-negotiables. And, if you're thinking about starting therapy, try BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy that works with your schedule. To get started, just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist.

If it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. So whether you're dating, married, building a friendship, or working on yourself, do it with help from BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's Betterhelp.com. Up next, we have Emily from Minneapolis on the show. Hey, Emily, welcome. Hi, thank you for having me.

Absolutely. I am just looking for advice. I'm in a funny situation. Me and my dad were living with my grandmother and she recently passed away. I'm sorry. And, um, thank you. The situation, I guess, we were looking to buy the house and I didn't really want to buy it unless it was given to me and that wasn't conversation, but we didn't quite

get to it. And my dad has always been supported by her and, um, he had, since she's passed is still not really going to work. Um, the reasons why he never really went is cause he's an alcoholic. Um, my boyfriend, he wanted to buy the house and I'm a big fan. I know you're not supposed to do that. So we did start the process of the mortgage lending and now my boyfriend doesn't make enough and then my dad's credit is too bad so it really would only work if all three of us were in on it but now that my dad still isn't proving to me that he can go

to work I guess I'm just looking for financial advice what to do here please please please please don't do what you advice what to do here. Please, please, please, please don't do what you're about to do. Yeah. Please don't do that. You know in your guts that this is not a good idea. Please don't. And I know it will be hard, it'll be uncomfortable, and your dad will get mad, and you're going to feel guilty, all those things. Please don't do this. Yeah, because I'm still in debt. My boyfriend is still in debt. Do we just buy a different house? Think of it this way.

Think of it this way. The bank's job is to lend money. And they looked at your boyfriend and looked at your dad and they said, y'all situation is so uncertain and unsafe that we will not do business with you. Please don't. Like not to mention, Nick, you know the mess and the legal mess of buying a house with a boyfriend and how to untangle all that mess. And I know

you're going to be together forever because we're in love. I know, but we wouldn't have a show if that didn't work out all the time. And then you throw a dad with some significant challenges, man. It is just a recipe for you being just destroyed financially your romantic relationship ending up in ash and then you and your father having no I mean you've tangled business with substance abuse with lifetime of y'all you two having challenges with grief I mean it's just such a rack walk away go get an apartment please please please how old please go get an apartment. How old are you, Emily? I'm 24.

No, please don't, please don't. Yeah, there are so many things in this. And in a weird way too, Emily, I feel like sometimes you can call it God, you can call it life, whatever you want. There's just closed doors that happen. And it's like, there's closed doors continuing to happen. You didn't have the conversation with your grandma. The bank isn't allowing you know your dad to fully

have it and then also then the boyfriend and then you're gonna have to come into play. I mean like do you do like there are all of these things that are stopping you and and I think is it is it your sentimental you know the sentimental idea of owning this house from your grandmother or is it just, I wanna own a house, like what, give me some of the thought behind it for you. Right, so this year was, we just got on the, you know, my boyfriend and I were like,

hey, we're gonna pay off our debt, we were gonna, you know, get engaged and buy a house this year. But then when this happened, I guess now it just kind of feels like, you know, I know my dad has that credit and that when he gets this money from once the house is sold, um, there's three other brothers, so he'll probably get like $50,000.

I know if he gets that, he's just going to drain it. He can't go buy a house. So I guess part of it kind of felt like an obligation to what's going to happen to him. I know that's not my responsibility and I thought it would be easier to move on until it really came to like, I don't know what he is going to do, you know? This is a really, really hard thing for me to say. Yeah.

But you can't save your dad in this situation. No, it's not my responsibility. Well, and I'm glad that, I mean, I know the cool thing these days is just to write off your parents. I don't believe in that. And I believe hanging in there as long as you can outside of like really abusive situations. And the thought of taking care of my parents, like that consumes a lot of my thinking. So that's not a bad thing.

This isn't you helping him with bad financial decisions, and this isn't you helping an elderly parent. This is you thinking that maybe now he's going to look at you and say, I'm proud of you. He's not going to. Yeah. No, you're right. And you've been looking for that since you were a little bitty girl wondering, why is he picking the bottle over me and has nothing to do with you.

It has to do with the fact that he's got demons, man. And alcohol for him works right now. And he's going to have to walk through that. Yeah, I understand. And I hate that for you. I hate it for you. I do. I really do, man.

And Emily too, I would give you a little bit of word of caution with your boyfriend and even just the mixes of finances because as you were saying We were trying to pay off our debt and all this Keep everything separate and if you're working to pay off debt, that's incredible, but be paying off your debts How much debt do you have? Oh, yeah. Yeah me doing mine The show and one she's paid off all his debt and then he finds some new Hot young thing at the water park or whatever weird, like, you know what I mean?

So yeah, you pay off yours, y'all can be each other's cheerleaders, y'all can high five each other, but yeah, don't pay off his debt yet. Okay, and so you guys recommend apartment, save to buy the house, then get engaged. No, no, no. Get an apartment. Get engaged whenever. Yeah, get engaged today. No, no, no. Get an apartment.

Get engaged whenever. Yeah, get engaged today. Yeah, I mean, if you guys are doing it, just do it now, get engaged, get married. Okay. Yeah, I would be completely debt free and have a fully funded emergency fund of three to six months of expenses,

and then save at least a 5% for a down payment. Okay, 5% for a down payment, okay. It's It says probably gonna be what do you make? What was that? How much money do you make? I make I think it's like 35 after taxes. How much do you owe in debt? I have one auto loan and it was for my grandma actually to get her boat around. She bought a boat for last summer because she said life is too short and she spent her funeral money. So it's a truck. It's a $14,000 truck. Can you sell it? I'm thinking about it. Yeah.

I would sell it this weekend. Yeah. Have you looked into, if you, if you sold a private seller, what it would, what it would come to? I haven't yet. I think this all kind of just hit me today of like, well, I'm not gonna be able to do this. Yeah, for sure, Emily. No, and I'm so glad you called.

So I would just go on Kelley Blue Book, type in the information, it'll ask you some questions and just get, don't do a dealer, do a private sale, you'll get more that way. And yeah, and that would be huge. You're free, then go buy a $5,000 Camry that will run forever.

Yes. And then you're off to the races. And can we, I want you to see this. You have a real life picture, most don't have this. You have a real life picture of what it looks like to not take care of your finances, to burn yourself to the ground trying to prop somebody else up who's not interested in your help, and then asking your granddaughter to buy a car so that you in your last few months and years

can YOLO. You have a picture of that. I want you to try to consider what it would feel like to not owe anybody any money, to have your own house, to have a job where you're making more than 35,000 bucks. Savings in the bank. You got savings in the bank. You get what I'm saying? Peace.

Peace, peace, peace, peace. It's all for peace. Yeah. Emily, stay on the line. Christian's going to pick up and we're going to give you Financial Peace University. This is our nine lesson course and you can just binge those videos just to kind of get the basics. Make Boyfriend Watch It. Yeah, kind of get the basics. Make boyfriend watch it. Yeah, yeah, you guys sit down together

and watch it seriously. That was already the plan. Oh good, good, good, good. And we'll give you every dollar premium so that you can start really working this feeling of what John's saying, kind of painting this picture of, yeah, what does this look like to actually have a plan for my money, not only month to month,

but in the next three, four, five, six years. And it's an amazing thing. I mean, it is so possible. And you're 24 years old and you are going to be able to make so many changes, so many changes in this. Thank you. I appreciate it. I'm a huge fan. Yeah, no, we're so excited for you. And there's some relational hurdles there too in your life. Yeah, hey, can we make no mistake? This is going to be awful.

Yeah. Your dad is going to make you feel so guilty and he's gonna blame you and you can block him and you cannot respond, but this can be hard, but just because it's hard doesn't mean it's not the next right thing. Yeah. Emily, thanks for the call.

Stay away from water parks, right? I'm telling you, those boys go to water parks and they find new, they find new. Oh my gosh. All right. Thanks to all the guys in the booth. Thanks John for a great hour and thank you America. We'll be back.

Hey what's up guys? It's Jade Warshaw and look, if there's anybody who knows student loan debt is a problem, it's me. My husband and I had $280,000 of it, but we were able to dig ourselves out and you can too. If your student loan payment and interest rate are burying you, refinancing could be the solution. Now, I recommend contacting my friends at Laurel Road today.

Through their online application, you can get an initial rate quote in less than five minutes. And if you have a more complex situation, you can schedule 30 minutes to talk to an actual human being. Thank goodness. Laurel road makes it simple. There are no fees involved, and you could save thousands over the life of your loan. Remember, you should only refinance if it makes sense in your situation. So if you're looking for a low rate or a shorter term so that you can pay off these student loans fast, talk to my friends at Laurel Road about their competitive interest rates and

how you could actually get a lower rate by signing up for auto pay. Listen, nobody's coming to save you from student loan debt. If you want them gone, you can't mess around. Go to laurelroad.com slash Ramsey to find out more about student loan refinancing. Again, that's LaurelRoad.com slash Ramsey. Laurel Road is a brand of Key Bank National Association. All credit products are subject to credit approval. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my good friend and best-selling author Dr. John

Deloney and we are taking your calls at triple 8 825 5 2 2 5 so give us a call talking about your life, your money, anything and everything. Next up. Dude I'm so happy right now. This is my favorite weekend of the year. I love it. Favorite weekend of the year. It's money and marriage weekend and people come from all over planet earth

to hang out with us in Nashville, Tennessee. And if you think we get wheels off like on our individual shows, this particular event is so unhinged. It's the best. It's the best of the best. It's a lot of Rachel just shaking her head on stage with John, just.

You are the queen of accidental double entendres. Okay. It's like your superpower. It happens sometimes. All right, let's start us off this hour with- Ken Coleman is the king. Always. The king.

Number one. Number one in the book for sure. All right, let's go to Courtney in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hey Courtney, welcome to the show. Hi, how's it going? I hope you guys are doing good. I just have a question about debt consolidation. So I have a vehicle loan that's like over 23,000

and I'm wanting to sell it to auto dealership, but the options are either lease or get a rebate and lease a car, which I don't want to do, or pay the part where I'm underwater. And so I was thinking if I go ahead and sell it and get a loan out for maybe 9,000, I can pay off my credit card and have my car also paid off and have that debt gone because my ultimate goal

is to be able to get a house and just get rid of some of that debt. Okay, so the car, you owe 23 on it and have you looked at other options like private sale and what you could get? Because usually you can't get as great of a deal through a dealership. Yeah, I haven't looked at private sale.

I mean, there's a dealership right now. Like my car, they're offering like around 20,000. Okay. So that's pretty good. Yeah. I'm just concerned about how long it'll take to do a private sale. Sure.

While I'm putting more mileage on the car. Sure. If they're offering you 20, then I bet you can get 27.5 for it. 27.5 for it? I just made that number up, but I guarantee you they are low balling you like, swing low, sweet chariots. They are so, they send these emails out that they have with their, and they're phishing for desperate people. If you wait two weeks, you get this thing sold private sale.

Okay. Okay. Which, so should I just stay away from the debt consolidation or? Yeah, I would because it's not going to really fix your problem because how much do you have in credit card debt that you're wanting to use some of this other loan that you're going to take out right to pay off the credit card debt and how much is that how much is the credit card debt? So the credit card is about $4,000.

Four thousand okay and how much do you make a year? Around $70,000. Around 70 okay great. Okay honestly Courtney if I were you mean, I think John's right. I think you could probably break even on this car, if not, maybe make a thousand or so. So I would, I would Kelly Blue book it and really look into private sales. Okay. To just to sell to an individual.

And I think you're going to get more doing that again. The dealership's always lowball you because they have to turn around and resell it. And so they have to make their margin on it. And so instead of all of that, you get the profit instead of them. But they're also gonna turn around and resell it, but you kind of unveiled their plan. They're gonna make a little bit of money on that resale. Where they're gonna make most of their money

is taking somebody who bought a car and trying to trade them into a lease. Yes, that's it too Courtney. They're trying to make a lot. And you've heard that when you drive a new car off the lot it instantly loses money. You know that one right? Yeah it definitely did. It went down like 10. That's right. All a lease is, it's an awesome scam that car companies came up with to get regular consumers just to pay for that depreciation So they get their car back in two years Somebody has paid the depreciation and now they can turn on sell it for what it's worth and they win Don't play that game. Okay, the it's just they are looking for desperate people. Yeah, Courtney. Do you have any money saved at all? I

Don't like I just made a big move any money saved at all? I don't like I just made a big move honestly and I had like life happened and then that's that's kind of what happened. Sure. I had to buy a new car. Yeah because yeah and you know and I don't think you're in like a you're not in a desperate situation so if I were you Courtney I would I would make it a goal get an extra job get a side hustle and I would make it a goal to save five to six6,000. I mean, in the next like four months, like make a big goal,

try to make a thousand, 15, 2000 a month extra. And when you do that, you'll have that margin, go and buy a $5,000 Honda Civic, sell this car, and maybe you'll break even on it, right? I mean, the worst, it's gonna be 23. If they're offering you 20, 23, maybe you'll get another extra thousand dollars or two. And I don't even mind if you have to go

to a local credit union and take out a loan for 2,500 bucks to get out of it, because then you only owe 2,500 versus 2,000. Is your credit pretty shot? Well, no, my credit, I think the car is so new on my, I've only had it for a couple of months, but it was- Yeah, you're not underwater on it. So breaking even, you know, I mean-

There's a win. Yeah, for sure, for sure. And then, yeah, and then Courtney, you'll be able to work and pay off the credit card, the 4,000 in three or four months. I mean, your whole life could look different, honestly, in the next eight to nine months. And I don't think, yeah, the debt consolidation loan, I mean, your whole life could look different honestly in the next eight to nine months. And I don't think, yeah, the debt consolidation loan,

I mean, that's just moving around, you know, the interest and you're not gonna be in this long anyway. So for the long game, from the math perspective, it's not gonna make that much of a difference. And majority of the time with debt consolidation, not as much in this example, but for a lot of people, they try to shuffle around their debt to fix a math problem. We're realizing that so much of this is a behavior problem, not a math problem. So you,

Courtney, going and doing it and, you know, understanding like, oh yeah, I can totally pay this off. I think you'll do it faster in that way than trying to kind of shuffle the debt around. Can I ask you a personal question just between me and you and a couple of million people listening? shuffle the debt around. Can I ask you a personal question just between me and you and a couple of million people listening? Sure. Why did you move? For a job, I got an actual like almost a $16,000 increase.

And I just, everything was great. I had my money saved for my house. Everything was going and then something popped up on my place that I didn't know about getting the apartment and then I you know I just couldn't get the house at that time as well so started shoving out money left and right next to me I know my savings was drained. There you go so sometimes like when you have a big transition or two or three or you mentioned it's just things got chaotic real fast all sudden you look up and the smoke clears you're like what happened

right I'm all super stable and then this thing happens the temptation is I want to you mentioned, it's just things got chaotic real fast. All of a sudden you look up and the smoke clears, you're like, what happened, right? I'm all super stable and then this thing happens. The temptation is, I wanna fix it all right this second. It's like somebody who has like a really just bad, gets off the rails with their diet on a weekend and they think they're gonna solve it by just starving themselves Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. And what they end up doing is creating such a,

like a teeter-totter inside their inside their body that they end up overeating Thursday and Friday. Right? So the hardest thing for you is just like you make great money. You're clearly awesome at what you do and you've had some a little bit of chaos in your life. You've transitioned. You've moved. All the stuff. Just do the next right move. Like get rid of the car, don't get in bed with any, I said that kind of weird. Don't take out any loans,

don't get in with any consolidation. You'll pay this $4,000 off in no time. You'll have your savings back in no time. And then you'll be back on your feet, like Rachel said, in nine months, this whole thing is behind you. So just do the next right move. Listen people, what you call organized chaos is still chaos.

This year, build some room in your budget to get your life really organized. One tool that I recommend is a knockbox, as in next of kin. Knockbox is a complete system that helps you organize important documents, accounts, IDs, tax returns, insurance policies, estate plans, and other personal history in one secure place. The 15 categories in your Knockbox cover everything from health history and investments to your

ancestry and even collectibles. So cut the clutter with a knockbox. Start getting organized today and receive an exclusive discount at knockbox.com slash Ramsey. That's N-O-K box.com slash Ramsey. I still remember 10 years ago, 23 years old, I was frustrated, anxious and flat broke. I had followed all the ways that toxic money culture had led me down from well-meaning

parents and misguided guidance counselors, and it left me with a pile of debt. But I'm telling you, it doesn't have to stay that way. Over a decade, I went from broke to millionaire, and I break it all down in my new book, Breaking Free from Broke. I'm going to show you just how toxic this money system is and how you can break free from credit scores and credit cards and student loans and auto loans and investing traps and finally live a life that you're not exhausted by a life with more margin, more options and more peace. If you want to check out the book,

go to ramsysolutions.com slash store to get your copy of Breaking Free from Broke. That's ramsysolutions.com slash store. Today's question of the day is brought to you by WhyRefi. WhyRefi refinances defaulted private student loans and builds a custom loan based on your ability to pay. Now you guys, private student loans are different than federal student loans like Sallie Mae. So to learn more about this custom refinancing option and a lump sum payoff option that you could qualify for for after 24 months, go to yrefy.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y, r-e-f-y dot

com slash Ramsey. May not be available in all states. All right, before I read today's question out loud, I need everybody to relax. James, this may be the end of the show because this is a, you're gonna get canceled question because I have strong opinions on this. Today's question comes from Renee in Iowa. Oh geez, here we go. My husband and I are on baby step two

with about $50,000 left to pay off. We earn around 250,000 bucks a year. Our question is regarding how much we spend for our 13 year old daughter's travel softball team. Between club dues, private lessons, weekend travel, food, hotels, and I could go on and on, it's about a thousand dollars a month. Rachel, a thousand. We're doing well paying off our debt and I don't wanna squash her passion for sports. Then take her out of travel sports.

Because she's one of the top players in the state. She still will be. She's a hardworking kid and doesn't take our support for granted. But I feel like I'm breaking the rules for paying off debt in baby step two. What are your thoughts on this? Oh, this is a, this is, this is the killer question, the knife in the heart question. Our debt is not her fault. So I feel like it's unfair to take this from her

just to save some money. I'm going to have a, probably a less harsher take than you will. Go for it. Okay. You make $250,000 a year, you have $50,000 in debt. So, cut everything for six months and pay off the debt, like in my head. And then you're fine. And then you pay the softball stuff and you're fine. Do you know what I mean?

Like it's not like- Yeah, my problem with this has nothing to do with math. I know, I know, but it's the debt, yes. You're making a quarter million dollars, pay off your debts. Yeah, that's so like in my head, I'm like, the thousand dollar softball thing, yes. Is it slowing down your debt snowball?

Sure, but I think there's way other problems out there for making $250,000 and not being able to pay off 50. Like in my head, I'm like. Yeah, you're taking home 18 to 20,000 bucks a month, making a quarter million dollars, and you take five or 7,000 of that a month, pay off 50 grand in six to 10 months. Yeah, get an extra job or whatever.

Like, do you know what I mean? Like you, yeah, to do it. So I don't like the, oh my gosh, this is the thing. I'm like, I think there's other issues going on besides the softball thing. Yes, I would be shocked, and Renee, I can be wrong. I'd be shocked if there's not a whole bunch of other expenses that we quote unquote have to do.

Yeah, it's that feeling. Or I'm gonna use her words, we're gonna squash our kids passion. It's not her fault, so it's unfair, all this stuff. So here's what I've, I spent my career, I did travel sports in their first iteration. I was a college athlete for a couple of years. My whole life has been around athletics and I love it.

And I've got to sit, some of my buddies are collegiate trainers. That's what they do for a living. I also work with some of the top physical fitness folks in the world. So this is, I love this. I love sports, I love all of it. And we are destroying our kids

at the altar of every weekend, private lessons, club dues, performance. And we say things like, she's one of the best players in the state. Great. That doesn't mean you spend a thousand bucks a month. If you go ask people who work with professional athletes and even the top collegiate athletes,

they're gonna tell you, let your kids have time off. Make them play other sports. Go do other fun things. Go camping, have weekends, have a childhood. I was gonna say, a whole rounded childhood. And the problem with this is it's so segmented, so early in life too. That's right.

And I've got collegiate trainers and collegiate medical staff, friends of mine, that said they see repetitive joint use injuries in 18 year olds that have always been reserved for geriatric patients. Shoulders, knees, it's madness, right? In this intense specialization and the intense focus. And so I want every parent, like you said,

this is not about money, it's not about money. If you make 75,000 bucks, let me put it this way, everything is on the table when you're trying to get out of debt. It's an emergency for your family. And I do like kids having some skin in the game and moms and dads, you're not robbing from your children if you don't shell out a thousand dollars a month

for soccer or for softball or for whatever the thing is. You're not robbing a childhood. And you know what I hear in this too, Renee, I mean, this was what, five, six sentences all around this. It's guilt, it's guilt, guilt, guilt, guilt, guilt. There's a level of this like idolization in her. I'm like, Renee, chill.

Like you don't even. She's 13. If Renee was like, yeah, I mean, it's fine, it's fine.. I'm like, Renee, chill. Like you don't even need. She's 13. If Renee was like, yeah, I mean, it's fine. It's fine. But she's like, no, no, I have, it's this like pressurized momentum for the parents going on to the children. Yes. And here's what, here's the ultimate, the ultimate problem. Our kids are being made the center point of the family, of the house. Your 13 year old knows that her life dictates every weekend, every evening of the week, all of the driving, the money, they know that and kids cannot hold. They're not strong enough to hold the entire weight of a family. That's the parent's job. Teach

your kids to be disappointed. Teach them, hey, me and your dad got into a whole bunch of debt, and so all of us have to sacrifice. And they're gonna learn resilience. So for a season, for one year. And frustration. Right. And your 13 year olds will say things like, oh, I hate you, they're 13, right? There's a reason we don't let 13 year olds buy guns

or beer or vote, cause they're 13, right? And so if you are playing this, it's unfair, and I don't want to get mad, and I don't want to take their passion, you won't do any of that stuff. You won't do any of that stuff. You will give your kid a stable, as Dr. Becky Kennedy says, a sturdy presence to anchor into.

And that's way more important than shelling out private lessons and travel and hotels and all this madness. It is stone madness. And if you talk to any professional coach, they'll tell you, jeez Louise man, do something else. Go play soccer, go play basketball, go take a karate class, go play guitar,

do other things that make you a well-rounded human being. Yes, well and I even think, you know, the well-roundedness, I was even hearing some dads talk and they were like, you know, their goal is to go do something outdoors once a month with the kids, with the boys. Because they were like, if you look up, it's a sport, sport, sport, sport, sport.

And I don't know why, I don't know if it's like this area or if it's all of America. It's turned into all of America. And here's the thing, I have great sympathy for parents, Rachel, because they're told that for, hey, your kid's pretty fast. Or how good does it feel when someone's like, hey, your kid made this team?

And you're like, yeah, it's gonna cost $900. And because I see something in your kid, and if they get on this team, then next year they can get on this team, by fifth grade they can get on that team, and then in eighth grade they can get on this. And you just got put into a rocket ship. That is so expensive.

I was gonna say, and if we just, I would love to do like an investigative reporting on how much these leagues make. And the league owners make. It is a money making machine. It's a printing press. It is. And every parent is like, take my money, take my money.

I mean, seriously, it is wild. I would love to see a parent who is awesome, who would be willing to go back and say, okay, here's how much money we spent. And I would love to just give it to you or George or Jade and have y'all run it through. If y'all invested this, just put it in a 529 or put it in a Roth for your kid. So how much of all of this from your perspective,

how much of it is the kid that's like, no, I want it, I want it, I want it, versus the parents that's saying, do, I want it, I want it, I want it versus the parents that's saying, do this, do this, do this? 13 year olds, 9 year olds, 7 year olds, they're going to want Twinkies and Skittles and to stay up late and to play games and have other recognition from other adults. Kids are just kids. I heard somebody say recently that I just love, I't hear another person say quote-unquote the kids these days. They haven't changed kids are kids They're always gonna try to push the boundaries. They're always gonna say I want the next shiny thing. That's cuz they're kids what's changed is adults who are worshiping their children's feelings and

They don't have their own psychology. They weren't trying to relive their childhood. Everybody's uncle Rico I had just gotten my shot, but I think the bigger thing is the more honest take is, parents are so worried about how their kids feel on a minute by minute basis that they end up with 19 year olds that can't pick up their arms and that have no resilience and no psychology for disappointment or frustration. Well, and it's funny too, I'm like as a parent

with three little ones, I, I mean, literally, they're like, oh, well, if they don't do this and they're not on travel by fourth or fifth grade, then they're not gonna make the middle school team, then they're not gonna make the high school team, then they're gonna do drugs and they're gonna die. Like that's like what it feels like happens and you're like, oh my gosh.

So yeah, taking fear out of this. And it's categorically not true, period. There's a time in your life and at the baby steps for renting, but you don't want to do it forever because when you rent, you're still paying for a mortgage just somebody else's. Plus, rent means instability in your budget because it always goes up, never down. So when you're ready to buy, make sure you work with a mortgage partner you can rely on – Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is Ramsey Trusted to help you make the move from renting to home ownership wisely.

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NMLS ConsumerAccess.org. Equal Housing Lender. 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100. Brentwood, Tennessee, Rachel Cruz here. All right, I'm about to say what everyone already knows, but budgeting is a good thing to do. Now, actually starting, well, that's where people freeze up. And you guys, it doesn't have to be that way. With the EveryDollar budgeting app, getting started is super easy and so is sticking to it You can set up your first budget in less time than it takes to go through the Chick-fil-a drive-through

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Every dollar keeps budgeting simple and stress free, just the way you want it. So go download the app for free and get started today. Again, go download the app for free and get started today. Again, go download every dollar today. Welcome back. Again, we have a big weekend here for our money and marriage event and tickets just came on sale for our November event. We just opened up these dates to the public. So November 6th through 8th you can come out to

Nashville with your spouse and come hang out with us. The greatest marriage retreat on earth. I'm a little bit biased, but I think it's the best one that's out there. We have so much fun this weekend, you guys. And it's always great conversations, great hanging out time. We really pack in an incredible weekend.

So you can get your tickets for the fall event November 6th through 8th at ramsesolutions.com slash events. Up next, we have Suzy in Phoenix, Arizona. Hi Suzy, welcome to the show. Hi. Hello, hello. Glad to be with you. Yes, thanks for calling in. How can we help? So I want to know how can I go on in the ways I can trust my husband after he had moved all our savings without telling me I discovered it and he keeps on making financial decisions without telling me or asking me. Where did he take your savings? Well, he moved it to another account and that, well, part of it, that has higher interest and some of it went into some investments, but like that's not a concern because we kind of talked about it, but it's just not the only, in the last two years, not the only time that he did things and I discovered it. Well, I guess there's two things here. One is you can't, like you're asking yourself to do something, like you're asking

yourself to find trust within yourself and the person you're asking yourself to do something, like you're asking yourself to find trust within yourself, and the person you're trying to trust continues to violate the trust. And so, if you want to reestablish trust, then you have to put down on the table, lay it out there, here's what must be true for me to trust you again. And we're going to have to practice, and we're going to have to go step by step to reestablish trust, and then the other person has to participate. Yeah, so like relationally I know what to ask of him like I want to, I know like first you do this, this and this and then we can like work together and you know

I'll start trusting you after these steps. But financially I don't know what to ask of him. Because I thought we had like a joint bank account, and it turns out like probably I don't know what a joint bank account is and what should I ask of him to be sure that money doesn't disappear like all of a sudden. That I have some. Yeah, I mean, you need to have a spreadsheet that has every account on it and what every password for every account is. And you should both be sitting down

with an investment professional, Smart Vestor Pro as we call them here, and they're walking both of you through your retirement accounts and how much money you have in those accounts and You should know how much cash y'all have I mean all this stuff you should know Susie What does he say his reasoning is for doing this without telling you when you find out and you say oh my gosh you moved The money what does he say?

he He couldn't explain it actually he started saying well because you because you and I'm like I I stopped like my mind shut off. I stopped even listening because Like what I mean because you you did it you didn't like he's Saying well he's trying to put the guilt on me somehow. Well, the worst thing is that for 15 years, like money wasn't something that we ever had fights or about. Did you ever talk about it in those 15 years?

And you saw everything, you had access to everything and you knew where everything was for 15 years. Yeah. And there was no fights. you had access to everything and you knew where everything was for 15 years. Yeah, and he would always say, we would discuss it or sometimes like, he'll say, I want to do this or I did this and I'm like, okay, so he always said what's going on and then he just... Is he in trouble? Is he making, is he making, is he struggling with gambling or is he seeing somebody else? Like, where's this money going?

I want to say that it's not going, I don't think he has problems with gambling, but, and he, I don't know actually what's going on because this is like the last two years there's been a series of betrayals. Okay, so here's the thing. Here's what you need to do. Yeah, go ahead. So there's been other betrayals, Suzy, in your marriage? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. On his end or your end? Relationally, what to ask, but then how do I make myself financially safe? Have you caught him having an affair? He was in an emotional affair with somebody. Okay. My guess is if there's missing money or suddenly money's getting moved around all over the place that if you went in and did a forensic

deep dive into that and forensics just means you went and you went line by line to see what is stuff's being spent you're gonna find stuff spent on flowers and hotel rooms and things like that. It's just very rare for things to just be be bopping along for 15 years everybody's on the same page and then suddenly all the money gets moved and you don't know where it is, some of it's getting spread out, all that kind of stuff. If I'm you, or if you're my sister, or you're my mom, I would tell you, pull your credit report today

to find out what loans have been taken out with your social security number. I would freeze my credit, and then I would tell my husband, we're gonna have a meeting with every single account, every dollar amount, I wanna know what is in all of our retirement accounts, I wanna're gonna have a meeting with every single account, every dollar amount, I wanna know what is in all of our retirement accounts, I wanna know what's in all of our savings account,

what's in our checking account, and accounting for where all the cash actually is. And it's just gonna be a sheet. And by the way, it's not hard to do. I've got one, my wife has one, and Rachel, it's pretty common that somebody just instantly gets into a mess. And I see it more and more with online gambling

over the last few years. Yes, yes. Well, usually when there's, yes, when there's shuffling around like this, and then suddenly there was transparency, now there's not transparency, there's a red flag. Something else is going on. That's the biggest waving on top of a mountain red flag.

Yes, yeah, yeah. So sorry, Susie. Yeah, and I would say even from a relational standpoint, I don't feel like you guys have probably fully healed from that, obviously, because even the way he's speaking to you or what you told us, he's shifting the blame. The gas lights are burning brightly.

Yeah, I mean, seriously, it is pretty wild. So yeah, I would be, yeah, I mean, it is so difficult because if it's not under your name, he could have a secret account that you never know about either. Absolutely, that's right. So there is a level of his transparency that he has to come forward as well,

but you can pull things in your name. If you know the banks you guys are banking at together, whatever name account that, or whatever account is in your name, you will have access to, you will be able to see it. And then asking him to do the same, because I'll be curious, as you do, you're digging on the side and he brings information.

If his doesn't line up with what you even found, then there's another distrust there. But this is, Suzy, usually with these types of situations, we always say around here, and it is true, at this point, it's not a money thing, it's a marriage issue. Yeah, big time. Because of the marriage issues, it's not a money thing, it's a marriage issue. Yeah, big time. Because of the marriage issues,

it's coming out as this money issue. And so, yeah, I mean, you guys have, you have a road of healing. I mean, you really do. And if you guys wanna- Well, you got a road of fact-finding for the time being. That's fair, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. And- Because you're not getting the full story.

Yeah, and that's really, really difficult and always scary. I'm like, it is the betrayal that's always so difficult. So difficult. So yeah, I'm sorry, Susie, thanks for the call. I hope that helps and I hope it does give you some empowerment to go and to look. And I think for some, I'll say women who do allow

the husbands just to basically do majority of everything when it comes to the money, this is one of the issues that we find because you do feel overwhelmed of like, oh my gosh, I don't even know where to start. Like I don't even know what to look for or what to ask. Because you were saying that Susie, I don't even know what to ask from a financial situation.

So again, just to repeat and help you in this, I mean, it is asking checking accounts, it's asking savings accounts, high yield accounts, money market accounts, investments, retirement accounts. I mean, I would- Any outstanding debts? Any debts that are there, yes. And what John said too, pulling your credit report

and seeing if any debts have been taken out. But that's kind of the, those are like kind of the categories to walk through to ask him and then for you to go in this investigative mode. Yeah, and let me flip it on its head to the men out there. You are not helping your wife have any sort of peace in her life by saying, I've got it, I've got it.

Right. At some regular interval, whether it's every month or every quarter, twice a year, once a year, sit down and say, and of course there's somebody who pushes the button and pays the bills or somebody moves the money. I get that. Have some sort of, hey, just so we're on the same page, here's where everything is and here's where we are.

That brings so much peace to your house and it keeps these, these nightmares from happening. I think we'd all agree that it's a lot harder to run a race if you don't know where the finish line is. But nearly half of all Americans have no idea how much money they'll need to retire with dignity. If you're ready to stop hoping for the best and start planning for your future, then check out the SmartVestor program. A SmartVestor Pro can teach you everything you need to know to get in the driver's seat of your own financial future. Connect with a pro at ramsysolutions.com slash SmartVestor. Ramsey Solutions is a paid, non-client

promoter of participating pros. Learn more at ramsysolutions.com slash SmartVestor. One of the best things that you can do for your money is to get a great tax pro in your corner. Tax season is approaching and they're going to help advise you to make the best moves through your situation, especially if you've had a big life change or a complicated situation, if you own a small business. So go to ramsysolutions.com slash tax pro to find CPAs and enrolled agents that have been vetted by the Ramsey team

All right up next we have Ashton in Madison, Wisconsin. Hi Ashton. Welcome to the show Hello, thank you for taking my call. Absolutely. Thanks for calling in. How can we help? Okay, so basically, um, I own a residential painting company here with my long time childhood friend. We basically are splitting the profits right down the middle at around 50% despite me running the business full time year round while he's in school and he only works for about three and a half months out of the year. How'd you all come to that arrangement, man? You're getting hosed on that deal.

Well, I dropped out of school to start the business. And so when we created the partnership, we just made it 50-50. And then we kind of assumed that it was going to be the same setup as when we worked at a different painting company together. But now, now that we're into it, I'm booking all the work, I paint and run one of the crews

year round, I'm expanding the network daily, and I'm making most of the gradual improvements to the business, so. So, you know, I just end up doing a lot more work. What's he saying, Ashton? Have you brought this up to him, feeling like it's unfair? How has he responded? Yeah, yeah, we've had multiple conversations about it. The main

argument that he uses is that I currently make, or he and I, I guess both make over six figures. And so why do I need any more money? You know, that's kind of his argument, and he just doesn't back down on it. Did you guys put in investment upfront, equal investment, and that's how you got to the 50-50 partnership? Or did you guys, you guys were just two friends, or like, yeah, we'll just open up this together

and see what happens. I'd say it's closer to the latter. It really wasn't super expensive to get into the business. And I know that I don't need the extra money to like stay alive, you know, I'll be fine, but my contribution to the business. And I know that I don't need the extra money to like stay alive, you know, I'll be fine. But my contribution to the business... We're past need a long time ago. So it's not that. I mean, yeah. No, no, no. Hey, just bro, this guy's not your friend. Yeah, he's my business partner. I understand that there's got to be a divide there.

And he's a bad business partner. Like, you got to dissolve this thing. Because I'm just thinking if one of my buddies came to me and I was in school and we had a business and suddenly he was running the whole thing, it wouldn't even occur to me just to respond the way he did. Yeah, dude. Okay. So, so Ashton, what would it look like?

Have you guys, I don't know how it's set up, how you guys formalize the business, but do you buy him out? Do you dissolve the business? Start your own thing? Like what are you thinking? Because he's obviously long term, it's not going to work. It's not working. Yeah.

He's not who you want to be in business with long term. Yeah. The assumption is that it's going to kind of work itself out because, you know, once he graduates, he's committed to or verbally committed to coming and working full-time for the business you know and making up for the fact that I kind of built it from the ground up single-handedly but I don't know if that's gonna happen and you know I'm only 20 I turned 21 pretty. We're doing about half a million in revenue each year. So for me to just throw this away.

As a 21 year old, you, A, you're dealing with, I wish I had another word for it because it's got romantic connotations and that's not what I mean, but you're dealing with a breakup, dude. You're dealing with a friend who's not treating you the way you treat him. And I wish this wasn't the case for the rest of your life, but people are going to hurt you for the rest of your life.

It's just kind of part of it. And you'll find a group that will ride with you to the end no matter what. But just hear from me and Rachel, what's happening to you is categorically unfair and he's revealing himself as a person who lacks integrity. Or maybe he's 20 and he's just incredibly immature. but I would not trust him as far as I can see him because he's proven to you he's not a person of character and integrity and he wants to take the money that you're the money that you're earning and take it and say this is mine just because of some handshake we made and it's just not accurate so I wouldn't throw the business away but I would dissolve the partnership and I

would say I quit this I'm gonna go open my own business down the street and I would do exactly what you're doing and make all three hundred thousand dollars or half million dollars a year on your own. It's what you're doing anyway, right? Pretty much. Yeah. I think I guess I just just gotta call this what it is. What are you worried about? Um, it's not as much as of a worry I kind of just have like this hope for the future based on our our plans and what we've talked about that we're going to be expanding into other industries and you know, we're we're like We're a really good team, You know, our skills and our attributes

kind of compliment each other. You're breaking my heart, brother. You're not. This is like somebody talking to somebody who's like, I know she cheats on me, but like we're really good together. She's so nice. She's so nice.

Yeah, and she's pretty and like her dad takes me hunting. Like I get that, but you're married, like that relationship's over. Same here, man. I hate this for you, dude. I mean, cause just think about Ashton, as the business continues to grow, the problems you're having are going to magnify.

So if you are having issues now with you carrying the weight and he doesn't care about that at all, that's gonna magnify, right? He's gonna get married and wanna take three months off and you'll just keep doing the job. He'll wanna go to his kids games and you'll keep doing the job. married and wanna take three months off and you'll just keep doing the job. I mean, he'll wanna go to his kids' games and you'll keep doing the job. And he'll wanna start another side business

and you'll keep doing the job. So either put in some stipulations for him to continue moving forward on what you want him to do, right, I mean, I think that's fair, of like, okay, we need to work X amount of hours or profit-wise, I take a percentage of the profits from the percentage of work that I do, like. Or that I book, right?

Yeah, I mean, whatever it looks like, but you know, structure it where it's fair. And then from there, if he can get on board, that's fine. But let me just, I will tell you, we work with small businesses all the time through on-trail leadership. And it's not always the case. But I'm saying 98% of the time, we always say the ship that doesn't set, that never sets sail as a partnership. Like it's the one ship you just don't wanna be on as a partnership. Again, small percentage of ones they work, but Ashton you're gonna run into this

and versus if you just do it on your own and maybe he's a manager under you or something, you know, works for you. But long-term, I would not continue down this road because there's been no proof of change at all from him and him initiating it, right? Yeah, yeah, I'd say that's and I thought you're better too Ashton Yeah, I mean you're starting to here's the thing don't resent him because that's on you That's because you didn't set up a boundary and a hold to it

You just kept going along with it and going along with it and going along with it And now you hate the guy every time you see his phone because you didn't set up a boundary and a hold to it. You just kept going along with it and going along with it and going along with it. And now you hate the guy. Every time you see his phone pop up, like his caller ID will pop up on your phone, you're mad. Like don't do that to him. Just like let him go. Let the person who lacks integrity go.

And dude, he's a childhood friend. Y'all wanted a business. Y'all had big dreams together. And by the way, can we just say this? For a 20 year old making half a million dollar top line, you are absolutely crushing it. You must be amazing at what you do. Imagine if you had a team working behind you and beside you

that had the same work ethic and drive you did. You'll be painting the entire city, right? Yeah, that's a whole nother... You just gotta agree with it. I mean, and again, if there was some deal Ashton that said, yeah, I'm gonna go to school for three years, can you run this thing, take the profits of what you make, and I'm gonna get back in after I graduate or something, right? I mean, like, there's common sense ways to approach it, but this doesn't feel like common sense at all the way he's gone about it. Yeah, I mean, I guess in a perfect world, and I know this is not what you're advising

me to do, but I just have to say it, in a perfect world, we would have a conversation where we do set boundaries. But I've tried to do that before, and he kind of just like talks around it, and he gets really emotional, and I feel like I can't have a real conversation and then we get done with the conversation and nothing changes. That's right. And then you know after a week I'm back to being like damn you know I'm still getting

still getting the short end of the stick. And in a perfect world another thing Dave Ramsey would send me an email and just say hey I just deposited five million dollars into your checking account just because I love you. You're handsome. That'd be awesome. And in another perfect, you get me saying, we keep doing this all day long, right?

It's just, unfortunately, and you're finding it out, we don't live in a perfect world. We live in a messed up, sideways, jacked up world. And I want to commend you, dude. You've tried to have the hard conversation. You're doing great business. You had dreams for you and your buddy. And he bailed on you.

And reality. And reality. Yep. Thanks for the call Ashton. Thanks to all the guys in the booth. Thank you to our wonderful audience today at the Money & Marriage Weekend Getaway. Thank you, John, for being a great co-host. This is The Ramsey Show. So The right questions are the key to unlock personal and professional potential. That means if you're not where you want to be, you are not asking the right questions. I'm Ken Coleman and this is what my new show, Front Row Seat, is all about. Over my career, I've had the distinct privilege to interview successful people from all walks of life and to coach over 10,000 professionals who wanted more.

What sets successful people apart is a never-ending desire to learn and grow. Each week, I'll be joined by industry leaders and world-class experts to have a conversation about how to get better, move up, and lead well in work and life. But the best part of this show is you get to be a part of the conversation. Live in-studio will have a group of professionals just like you who have the power to ask questions and steer the discussion in real time. It's an opportunity to get real answers to real

questions like how to make the right decisions, have hard conversations, live a balanced life, and discover your next steps to grow. Join us every Tuesday for conversations that are guaranteed to surprise, challenge, and inspire you. Check out Front Row Seat wherever you get your podcasts.