The Ramsey Show - Broke Is Normal—Do You Really Want to Be Like Everyone Else?

Episode Date: December 19, 2024

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, It's the Ramsey Show. We help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Jade Walsh, our Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, and is my co-host today. Open phones here at 888-825-5225. Merry Christmas America! Allie is with us. Allie is in Phoenix. Hi Allie, welcome to the Ramsey show. Hey, thanks so much for having me. Sure, what's up? Yeah, so I have a question around a large lump sum of money I just inherited. Okay. Um, so I have two older sisters,

they're twins and they are quite a bit older than me. They're technically my half sisters and my dad came into their life when they were two and, um, 16 years later I was born. So they're about 18 years older than me. And great dad, he unfortunately passed away when I was four and they were in their early 20s. And I just found out this past Thanksgiving that through his company's old life insurance, there is $100 thousand dollars in an

account that I am set to inherit solely. How old are you? My mom, I'm 26. Okay so this company that your dad left you as the beneficiary for a hundred thousand dollar life insurance policy and why was it not dispersed to you then? My, it was in a custodial account and- Well at 21 it becomes yours. Yes, she did not wanna tell me about it cause she was afraid I would misuse it. Wow.

Okay, she doesn't really have that option legally by the way. Hmm. Wow. Yeah. Okay. She doesn't really have that option legally, by the way. Okay, so you're now how old? I'm 26. Okay, all right. So you have $100,000 and you're gonna go pick up the check now, right? Yes. Good.

However, however, her closing comment to me after informing me of this account was, you know, he was your sister's dad too, even not by blood. Okay. And she would be right about that. Yes. My question to you is, you know, when he passed, my sister stepped in, they financially helped take care of me and my mom. They were there every second. They moved back in with us They are my best friends my everything and so what do you want to do?

There's there's obviously something that you want to do. What do you want to do? Well, my holdup is I am in the market to buy a house and this would be awesome to have to put towards the downpayment in the market to buy a house. And this would be awesome to have, to put towards the down payment. But I do think they deserve something. Why? Why do they deserve something? They did not move back in and take care of you all

because they thought they had money coming to them. That's true. They moved back in and took care of you because your family, they loved you, you're a little girl and your mom needed help. And they came in and took care of you because your family, they loved you, you're a little girl, and your mom needed help, and they came in and helped their mother and their little half sister.

They didn't do it for money. You're under no obligation to repay that act with money. Yeah. That's like saying, oh, I used to change your diapers, so you need to share this with me. No, it's your freaking job when you're the mom. You change the diapers. That's what you do. You don't get to play that card later as a way to get paid back.

Now if you just, in your own heart, you thought, man, I want to give, I want to share this and it has nothing to do with you feeling obligated. This is guilt this is your your mother is a travel agent for guilt trips and she's a bit of a control freak because she illegally withheld this information from you for the last five years I mean she could get her butt sued if you were a jerk I mean mean what she does straight up illegal okay not criminal but I mean she just cannot you can't do that it's not this is well I I thought that you know she might misuse it's not her option the

law says at 21 it's yours the custodial rights dissipate they disappear at 21. So, you know, I there's a lot of guilt and passive aggressive floating around your whole family. Yeah. Yeah. So I think you know, I personally, your dad left your name on it. If he wanted their name on it, he would have put their name on it. Yeah. If your mother could have talked him into it, he would have put their name on it.

Mm-hmm. And so she's now trying to fix this the way she wants it afterwards. Sorry. I don't need to be mean about this, and I don't want you to be unkind to anybody. I appreciate that you love your half-sisters and that's wonderful that you have a great relationship. I'm glad you do, but it should not be based on money. It ought to be based on love and family. And so you are not lesser of a person if you only follow through on your father's intent, your father left you this money. He did not leave it to them.

So you do whatever you want to do. I don't want you to share it out of, uh, guilt. I don't, I don't either, but I will say, I mean, I will say if I was left, I have, there's four of us, if I was left on my dad's insurance policy, $100,000, and if I just was privy to the fact that my siblings got nothing, I think that I would be inclined to divvy it up. And I'm not saying that that's right or wrong. I just can understand.

I can understand it. And I agree with you, Dave. I don't think it should be done out of guilt at all. You should never do any generosity without a cheerful heart, period. But I can understand it. And I think I can understand it. I can understand it if you want to do it.

Yeah. But I'm not okay with this coming from your mother who illegally kept this coming from your mother who illegally kept this information from you for five years definitely well you know he loved them too you know we love puppies too so maybe we ought to give some to the humane society you know oh brother I mean yeah she's killing me here yeah cuz then she might decide that she should have some too yeah he loved me I mean, jeez, you're killing me here. Yeah, that's not good. That is. Killing me here. Yeah, because then she might decide that she should have some too.

Yeah, he loved me too. Yeah. Wow. He loved all God's little creatures, you know, jeez, you're killing me. And I think the situation if you go to like with your brothers and sisters, you're talking about that. I think that's dependent. Why did your dad not leave them on the policy?

Well, because they're misbehaving. Sure, sure, sure. Okay, then you'd be violating his memory and his intent and his blessing to do that. Or he just screwed up the paperwork, he wouldn't watch in what he was doing. That's also possible. And that was a mistake.

If that was the case then I might want to share it. Yeah. And I think that's the thing she knows she knows what's really at play here and I think that you were right on. I'm 100% sure she is his blood daughter the other girls aren't and 100% sure he left it to his daughter. Yeah. There's no question in my mind.

I'm reading his I'm reading his mind and it's just that the the wife didn't like that yeah she you know sorry the way it works this is the Ramsey show are you working the baby steps one of the smartest and most impactful changes you can make is to ditch your cash value life insurance plan, if you have one, and replace it with a term life policy. Listen, the only thing a cash value policy is good for is overcharging you for the life insurance and then paying you a crappy rate of return on your overpayment. Stop wasting your money and really focus on getting out of debt

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jade washout ramsey personality is my cohost today thanks for hanging out with us john deloney and i are doing the money and relationships tour this spring these uh... cities are selling very very quickly if you'd like to come we'd love to have you putting a new twist on this at each stop we're gonna put out a bunch of topics before the show, while you're sitting in the audience getting ready, and you're going to vote on

what we talk about that night. So you're going to form the content for the show that night. And we'll be in Louisville, Kentucky, April 21, Durham, April 23, Atlanta, April 25, Phoenix, May 5, Fort Worth, May 7, Kansas City, May 9. You don't want to miss this. RamseySolutions.com slash tour, the Money and Relationships Tour. And that's Dr. John Delaney and me coming to a town near you. Lexington, Kentucky is on the line.

John is with us. Merry Christmas, John. Hey, guys. How are you guys doing? Better than we deserve, bro bro what's up? Good so me and my fiancee we're wanting to get married but we're kind of running into a tricky situation so basically she has a lot of health issues she takes a lot of medications and some of those medications are just you know ridiculously priced I mean like one of them is just is five grand a month. What

is your health problems? So she has diabetes type 1, epilepsy, seizures and she has a bunch of other stuff but here recently because we have a seven month old she recently got diagnosed with postpartum depression so she's having a pretty tough time now but basically we want to get married but she's on Medicaid right now which covers which fully covers the cost of her medication and if we get married they would use my income and deny her Medicaid. And then what would the prescription costs on your insurance? So and that's kind of why I'm calling you guys because I'm a little confused about this insurance like I have I don't know a lot about it.

I mean I see our deductible would be eight grand, which seems like a lot. Yeah. But then you could look and see what, how, how your prescriptions are covered. Have you called and just asked him and said, Hey, I'm getting married. I'm moving my wife to my insurance. Here's the medications that she's on. What would it cost me? I have not.

I think that's your first step. Okay. Okay. Cause I thought, so the deductibles on insurance, it's not by any means... May or may not apply to prescription drugs. We don't know in your policy. Okay. Even if it does, even if it does, it's an $8,000 out of pocket, not $8,000 a month. Which is something you could plan for for the year.

What do you make? I take home about $. Okay. All right. And what do you do for a living? Uh, I'm an HVAC. I'm just starting out. Okay. So you're, you're, you're just getting your, your apprenticeship behind you and you're starting to make some tech money, which means your income is going to double in the next three years. Agreed? Correct. Yeah, okay. That's good, that's a good trade to be in, man.

Good for you. But here's the thing. One of the ways you wanna look at major situations like this is, okay, I've got this barrier. Number one, what can I do about it? Which Jade gave you a great suggestion. Go ahead and get more information gathered up. Because you may be worrying about something

or you may have made an assumption here. I mean, I have no idea. It may be that some of those particular drugs have a generic form that can be bought for $500 a month. I don't know. I mean, it wouldn't be that unusual to hear a story like that once you decide

Hey, we've got to figure this out because we're getting married. Okay, and now then you pan back and say alright, even if It's seven thousand dollars We've got we've got to figure out something else because We don't want to be on Medicaid For the next 40 years and not married Right, so you have to have a long-term Perspective on this it says okay. I've got to fix this because this doesn't play well long term this month If it is seven,000 a month,

and that's the only option, which is probably not, but if that's the only option, this month sucks. That's right. That's right. But you cannot let that be the only thing that says, I'm gonna determine this because we know we don't wanna be on welfare for the next 40 years. That's not a good life plan. So we gotta find a way to get off of welfare,

and which is what Medicaid is, boys and girls. And so let's get off of that and get, let's find a way around that. So private insurance, generics, other solutions to the medical issues, start talking to the docs and say, okay, Medicaid's off the table, so how are we gonna make sure she's okay?

That's right, and even if you do call and find out that the prescriptions are covered with her health conditions, you're always gonna want your deductible laying around because you never know what's gonna pop up that's gonna send somebody to the ER or they'll have to have a procedure done. So that's something that you really should weigh heavily

and we say it all the time, when people have three to six months of emergency funds, one of the things you weigh in is the health of you or your spouse. So something to think about. It sounds like you got a high deductible HSA probably. And so that sets you up to have a good emergency fund. And you're probably budgeting to recoup

that deductible once a year. That's right. And you know, because you're probably budgeting to recoup that deductible once a year. That's right. And you know because you're probably going to burn through it with you know an ongoing struggle with epilepsy an ongoing struggle with some of these other issues. So cool. Hey John that's a good question. You're a good man. I'm glad you're looking at this through the right eyes and figuring out how to solve it. Appreciate you joining us. Alex is in Denver. Alex, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Merry Christmas. Hey, Merry Christmas. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up?

I had a question today, not about gift giving, but gift receiving. So, on through shirt, we've been using you guys' daily steps since about late 2022, so a little over a year. We're just finishing step two. We're under our last $8,000. We should be done by about May of this year being paid off. So we're excited. But uh, the issue is, so I found out that my wife has been saving some of her discretionary income on the side. Uh, some of the pocket changes spending money that she's had over the years.

And she bought me what I would consider a pretty expensive Christmas gift. What? About $850. What? It's something that I've wanted for years. I'm a nerd. What is it? It's the Lego Millennium Falcon, the giant one. How long did she save up her fun money to do this? Only six or seven months Okay, and so the thing is I'm filming trenches. My mind is it paying off more debt? Spring clear how come hers is what how come hers is not in the trenches. I Don't know I thought it was yeah was the fun money I just have a question. Was the fun money that something that you guys decided was going to be on the budget and it is and you have a line item too. Yep. Okay. And you've been spending yours on what you

consider fun. For the most part, usually mine goes towards day trips and vacations for us. Okay. And then she's a little, little like, you know, out in the local area, go eat at a nice restaurant every once in a while. Okay. And then she's, instead of spending hers on what she would consider fun, whether it be for her or both of you, she's stacked it up for this gift. Yes.

And what you're thinking is, don't stack it up for the gift. If you're going to do anything, put it on the debt. And one, yeah, I mean, it's the 10th of our remaining debt. Why wouldn't we just you know pay off that much more of it? Well because you guys said you had fun money. No.

I disagree. Well I'm not saying that that's right but I am saying that you guys created a budget you both shook and agree on it you spent your money on one way and now you're now that you see her she's been she's stacked up hers you're like ooh wait a minute I I want to, the truth is, Dave is right, you guys shouldn't have been doing fun money to begin with if you're paying off debt.

Not at this level. And we're not going out to eat, we're not going on vacation, we're totally intense and totally focused, and I don't know how in the crud you come up with 850 bucks in a super gazelle intense budget. You should have been putting, you should have been squeezing every dollar out and any

time you have money left at the end of the month you throw it at the death that's right you don't stack it up in the corner this is not a squirrel fund so I mean you do whatever you want to do but that is not following the baby steps neither when you're when you're in baby step two neither one of you are your baby step two you're throwing everything you don't see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working there. We're not going on vacation, we're getting out of debt. And so you guys are, you've been focused,

but you've not been intense. And so you do whatever y'all wanna do in your plan. Our plan is all this money should have been going towards the debt, all of it, all along. You would have been done by now. Yeah, yeah, probably, probably. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey guys, I've never done this before, but I'm partnering with a nutrition company, Field

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Alright, today's question comes from Rick in Michigan. My wife and I have no debt, a fully funded emergency fund, a paid off house, and we have about 150,000 saved for a down payment on our next home. We follow the Ramsey plan and we are Baby Steps millionaires, congrats. We are so close to having enough to pay for the next house

and cash between savings and the proceeds from our current house. However, my wife wants to move sooner than later. She has suggested getting a mortgage again and keeping some of the down payment savings to use for monthly payments and other such ideas. I love my wife, but I know these aren't great financial decisions. I don't want to buy a house in a manner that's not financially responsible and then resent her for pressuring me into it Am I being a jerk here? No, I think you're being a really smart guy and I think you're holding up your end of what you guys said the deal is because When you walk through the baby steps, you know

There's seven of them and part of that is you kind of draw this line in the sand and you go Okay, like we're not people that borrow money anymore. Right. And in this case, it would be really frivolous and stupid for you guys to go into debt for a mortgage when you don't need to. That's just, I mean, truly that's stupid. You don't need to do it. So I think that you're right. You have some conversations to have with your wife. Something is pulling her in another direction. I don't know if it's comparison, I don't know if it's something she saw some ladies at church doing, I don't know,

something is pulling her in a direction. Quit going to open houses. Quit looking at houses until you have the money. Yeah, that would do it too. Because when you go look at a nicer house, you come home and your brain, you have to get house fever. True, true. And you have to get house fever. True, true.

And you have to take like cold showers and stuff to get rid of it. It's, it'll destroy your brain. It'll rot your brain. And so that's what happens. I mean, Instagram or physically visiting the house or looking at the Mozilla or whatever else, quit doing that. You know, don't go test drive a car when you ain't got the money to buy it. All it does is stir you up and cause you to act

like a four year old. That's such a good point, you're right. They're looking at houses too soon. You need to wait till you have the money. Yeah, yeah. Just save up and then when we're ready to make the move, then we'll start talking about looking and this is the budget we have

and we don't need to look at houses more expensive than the money we have. Facts. And it's a simple thing, because it causes us. So no honey, the process that got us here, what to millionaire at our age was to get out of debt, house and everything. I cannot go back into debt.

I can't do it and and it's not an act of love towards you for me to cave and do something That's not good for our future and our family. So no, yeah, she's I'm reading this again. She's desperate She's like, oh she saw something. I'm gonna tell you she got the fever. Oh, yeah She saw something that she got the fever. Oh, yeah Laura's in Tampa, Florida. Hey Laura, Merry Christmas. Hey Merry Christmas Dave and Jade. I am so excited to be talking to you guys. Happy to talk to you. What's up? Well, my husband and I are baby steps millionaires and I have you guys to thank for that So I really appreciate everything you're doing my My question. Yeah. My question is given my disability, I'm wondering if you think I can successfully start and run a franchise as

long as I start debt free. And if not, is there anything else that I can do to earn six figures ever again? What is your disability? I acquired a brain injury about six years ago and I haven't worked since. I was a marketing director and I coached independent contractors, taught producing independent contractors in real estate and I've got these great skill sets that are just kind of sitting here with me and it's driving me crazy. Well what are the limitations that you face because of the brain injury? Sure so

I can work about two hours a day, about four to five days a month. I have really bad days where I can't get out of bed. And then I have some mild cognitive impairments. I make more mistakes than I used to before. Yeah, those, I mean, there's a lot of chronic conditions, but that's what really applies to the work situation. And what type of franchise are you trying to open up?

Well, we have a cleaner at our house and she's fantastic. I was thinking, I know that she's interested in talking with me, but if I could bring her on as a GM in residential cleaning services and her portfolio comes with us, that maybe that's an option. Okay and so you're saying I can have her hire a bunch of cleaners and I'll just run the thing and she's my partner? That's where my mind is right now.

Interesting. I'm not gonna lie I'm hung up on the two hours a day, four to five days a month. Now I'm not saying that, your screen says is it possible to make six figures again? I think so. But this is definitely a limitation. Dave, what do you think? You can work two hours a day. Correct. My brain starts to, cognitively I start to decline after about two hours of problem solving

and that's when I make more mistakes and you know things get a lot harder for me. Okay so whatever it is you're gonna run obviously we have to be able to do it with that number of hours. Yeah yeah. And then everything else has to be delegated to the rest of the team and And can you make six figures? Absolutely, you can make six figures. But I just, I don't know if it's in house cleaning or not. I don't know about that. But I think you've,

you know, you've figured out what we've got to work with here now. And so what we have to do is we have to have something that makes, uh, uh, that we can leverage those two hours into, uh, to lead others, to run things on the other six hours a day, uh, out of eight that, um, that the place is running and I'm not running it. What made you choose house cleaning? Is that something you're passionate about and know about

or is it just because you have someone who is a possible partner? Exactly, it's, I know that daily operations is where I need someone to take over so that I can do more of the high level stuff of scaling a business. So she's the only person I have in mind as a potential GM and that's her expertise but that's not my passion at all. Yeah I would not build something

that you didn't have passion about because it's gonna be too hard. Whether you're facing brain injury or just doing a small business is hard, number one. Number two, I would not build something that is dependent upon a single individual. I want a concept that works and then I'll look for the individual to plug into it. And if that individual doesn't work, I'll plug a different individual into it.

But we don't do org charts in our organization charts in Ramsey based on the person that's here. We do the organization chart based on the proper way to run the business and then the people that are here populate that chart. So every time I've built something for, built a job for someone, that's really messed me up because then that person leaves and you're screwed. Right. I think I'm in a place of just pulling straws because I just want something. I appreciate the ambition and you do have capacity

to do something. But don't, you know, there's no rush. You're millionaires, you're okay. You're not, you know, it's not like you need the money to pay the bills, you just need something to do. Because you're a doer. And so that's a good thing. But let's

Let's take the steps and say all right. What am I passionate about? What can I plug into how can I build this out in such a way that? We're back filling for these deficits, but we're utilizing the gift that I do have which is very powerful two hours a day Yeah, and some people don't work, but two hours a day anyway. They just sit around the rest of the time so So do you think franchise is still there? I don't think franchise answers your question. What answers your question is building a system of some kind. It could be a franchise but what you're looking for you just need a

Duplicatable system of some kind that you can delegate out and run and Hang on I'm gonna send you the Assessment for Ken Coleman's finding the work you're wired to do and send you the book as well I think you'll enjoy that that and it may spur some ideas. This is the Ramsey show enjoy that that and it may spur some ideas. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey you guys, I'm not a fan of the big banks and you probably already know which ones I mean. But I do like credit unions because they're nonprofit organizations that focus on their members. And I'm proud to endorse Fair Winds Credit Union because they share the Ramsey mission of helping people get out of debt and live

generously. In fact, they design products to help keep you from going into debt in the first place. Fair Winds has been in business for over 75 years and they serve hundreds of thousands of members worldwide. You can feel secure because your deposits are federally insured by the NCUA up to $250,000. It's easy to join and Fair Winds partners with more than 5,000 credit union locations around the country so you can bank in person wherever you live. But if you prefer the online experience you can log on to Fairwinds and do anything you could do at a physical location. So go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to learn more and while you're there look at the

combined checking and savings account bundle they created just for Ramsey fans to help you take control of your finances. That's fair wins. F-A-I-R-W-I-N-D-S dot orgah Ramsey personality is my co-host. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Brian is in Atlanta. Hey Brian, how are you? I'm alright, thanks for having me.

Sure, what's up? So, I recently found some of your videos scrolling Facebook and started listening to some of your stuff. I haven't done any of the things that you talk about, but I'm trying to get started. I recently bought a truck. It was a horrible decision that I didn't know better at the time. And I'm a prime example of just because you make more money doesn't mean you fix the problem if you don't know how to spend it. Because I doubled my income three years ago.

And celebrated it with a truck payment. I did. And I've just steadily gone downhill. And I've been trying to sell it, but I owe a little bit more than it's worth because I took the hit of depreciation on a brand new truck. Man. How much did you pay for that truck? Over 60 grand in finance.

No money down. I was raised that credit was everything and I've worked my butt off to have really good credit and it's done nothing but hurt me. Well I have an opportunity because the trucks a limit and Toyota Corporation is going to have to buy it back. However, the state I'm in has a 20 cents per mile deduction for depreciation. And that's going to mean I have to pay a little bit over eight grand just for them to buy out my loan.

I don't have a grant sitting in the bank. That would be a loan that I'd have to get just to get out of this law. sitting in the bank that would be a loan that I'd have to get just to get out of this law. But you would be trading an eight grand loan for a $60,000 loan? Yeah, I got like $46,000 left on it, yes. Okay. I have the credit, I can go to the bank and sign the payment and get a signature loan for eight grand. It's just, is it the right move?

And then they pay off the loan or they take the truck? They pay off the loan and take the truck. So then you sell your truck for forty six thousand then? Could I? No I've had it for sale for forty six thousand for a while. Oh okay. All right. So it's not what's it worth? It's uh Last time I looked it's about 40 trading. I think mid 30s that the value plummeted on these things cuz all the recalls And it just they killed the value of these trucks so there you're getting a better deal selling it back to them I Think so. Yeah It's just now I'm trying to. Yes, I

would rather be eight thousand dollars in debt than forty six thousand dollars in debt. I mean it's similar to what we would tell anybody if they were upside down in a car. We tell them to go to the bank, get a loan, clear the difference and get something in cash and this is very similar to that. So I do that. The only difference is your buyer happens to be Toyota. But yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. How quick is it all this coming through?

I have a bunch of documents I have to get together and send to them to get an offer to find out what they're actually willing to pay for the truck. But it'll probably be the first week or so of January. Oh, so they'll cut you a check pretty quick then. Yeah, they're gonna cut it to the bank. That's what I mean.

And I gotta pay the difference. That's what I mean. Do you have- Yes, I would do that deal. Yeah, and you might have something, I don't know, just talking to you, you might have something laying around that you could sell to get the money

to clear the difference without taking out a loan. Just a thought. And you gotta have to get a little truck of some kind, a little $5,000 or something to get around in. Oh no, that guy sounds like he's got a lot of little things with engines laying around that he could sell. Just kinda got that feeling now. Adams in Spokane, hey Adam, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Thank you very much. How can I help? So I have a question about interest bearingbearing loans. My understanding is that interest-bearing loans between brothers is prohibited. If I put my money in a savings account and I'm getting 4% interest back, am I just removing that responsibility from my loan because now the bank is then charging another believer interest using my money? You're not in charge of the bank and the bank is then charging another believer interest using my money? You're not in charge of the bank and the bank is not a brother. Well what if the bank is being run by believers?

It's not a bank is an institution. It's not the employees. If an individual, we can have a discussion about an individual loaning an individual money but institutions don't have souls And I promise you banks don't Then on the back end of that if somebody goes to a bank like if I were to go to a bank and borrow money for a mortgage I'm using the money of other believers Am I am I am I enabling them to charge interest?

How do you know that? They didn't loan you the money though. Right, the bank pooled a whole bunch of people's money, and so I don't know who the money belongs to. Exactly. So you can't make that judgment. Again, you can't make that judgment. Right. It just seems like that's a way to sort of obfuscate what's happening so that removes responsibility from anybody. No, that's not the intent. The intent is, that's not the intent of the scripture to start with, but banks didn't all get together and go, you know, there is this line in Deuteronomy and to get around that we're going to create this whole system. No, they didn't do that.

I promise they didn't think a thing about Deuteronomy, not once. And so no, that's not, you're not doing anything wrong. It's like saying, if I buy a pizza at Pizza Hut but they take credit cards for other people to buy a pizza and put them in debt am I supporting visa putting people in debt through Pizza Hut no you're not you're just buying a pizza yeah yeah you know you're really working you're really working hard here to be guilty of something that's a good way to put it, Dave. Well, it's something that I don't really hear anybody talk about, so I'm sort of...

I'll help you. I'll tell you why, okay? Because the scripture that you're referring to does not say interest in the Hebrew. It only says it in the New King, or in the King James. The rabbis in Judaism do not teach what you're talking about. Thus Jewish people have been in the banking business from day one, okay, from the day, from the time there's been Jewish people. So that most, most scholars, even evangelical scholars will tell you that the actual Hebrew

word there is better translated usury than it is interest. And so it's not really a situation of Christians can't charge interest at all. Usury is the overcharge of interest. Christians should not overcharge interest. And so there were states decades ago that had usury laws that prevented interest rates from being above a certain level because of that and it came from that scripture but the word usury there is a when you when

you do the word studies on it and that you get down into the scholarship on it is more akin to overcharging of interest than it is the charging of interest so you could make the case that credit cards are userous because they're 18 to 28 percent. That's a userous, an overcharging of interest rates. Probably can't make that case with a mortgage rate. And I can make the case that you shouldn't be borrowing money at all because there's not a single positive reference in the Bible to debt. But I can't tell you that borrowing money is a sin.

As a matter of fact, I'm positive that the Bible never once refers to debt as a sin. It refers to it as lacking in sense, you're a slave, you know, it's a curse upon you if you go into debt, all these negative connotations. But never once is it a sin issue and never once is it mentioned as a salvation issue. It's not, it's just instructional from Scripture to avoid debt. It's instructional in Scripture to have a budget. It's instructional from Scripture to live on less than you make, to not co-sign. There are instructions all through Scripture regarding money. This is one of them to not overcharge particularly your brother a userous amount of interest. But when you fall down

the Pharisee rabbit hole where you're trying to unpack every, uncross every tee and every jot and tittle, you really can't pull the thread long enough to keep the sweater intact. It just doesn't work. And so, walk in grace, brother. Walk in grace and be good and be kind, be compassionate, be wise, and don't try to figure out how the banking system is somehow built on dodging one Bible scripture that doesn't even mean that in the Hebrew. This is the Ramsey Show.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey, it's that time of year, it's starting to get a little bit colder, it's getting a little bit dark earlier, and sometimes if you're like me, you just want to stay inside and get cozy. And for me, my perfect cozy night is me and all of my family piled under blankets, watching a movie, sitting by the fire, maybe even reading a book. Listen, whatever your perfect night in looks like, sometimes therapy can feel a bit like that. A time when you can settle in, finally exhale, replenish your energy and begin to take care of yourself. Therapy is a great way to bring

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build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Jade Walsh, our number one I'm Dave Ramsey your host Jade Warshaw number one best-selling author Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Zachary's in Houston. Hey Zachary how are you? Hello I'm doing alright how are you Dave? Better than I deserve. Merry Christmas how can we help? So I'm in a bit of a situation that I'm looking for some guidance on My wife and I just started your program about six months ago We're forty three thousand dollars for the consumer debt down so far good, and I just lost my job a few days ago Oh, no right before Christmas that's so

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was pretty exciting to get a no, right before Christmas. That sucks. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was pretty exciting to get a layoff right before Christmas. What do you, what do you do? What kind of work were you doing? Uh, construction, uh, superintendent. So I was making about $160,000 a year. Uh, I've got a job lined up to start again in January. That's good for 170. Oh, well, this worked out to kind of manipulate your system a little bit for my own peace of mind and my wife and I are debating. I want to stop baby step two right now because we have two vehicles in our house. That's all that's left. And I want to do a six month emergency fund and then go back to attacking everything

That's just cuz you're feeling some type of way because you lost your job correct Did you get severance No, okay Okay, so how many how many checks are how many checks are you gonna miss? Theoretically just two. Okay. Which, it's a bit of a world, but it definitely has you nervous.

Yeah, it makes you nervous, but there's no reason to panic. Well, for a long time before I took this job, I tried to out-earn my stupidity and that didn't work. Yeah. So I took the job and like you said we got pretty serious about it six months ago. I don't know, it's just P.T.R. What does your wife work make?

Nothing, we're a single family income family. No, I would not reorganize the baby steps because you got scared once. So you just keep going back to the cars and then move on to it? I mean if you push pause on everything for a couple weeks while you get your paycheck started again, that's fine. But are we going to, because of the layoff, are are we gonna in January not pay down on the cars and instead build up an emergency fund? Because we got laid off back in December. No, no, that's just being that's that's fear-based. Yeah It is

It's also not wise Well, that's that's the reason for the cold. Yeah. How much do you owe on the cars? We owe $13,000 on my truck and $24,000 on her car. So we're not bad compared to where we were. Sometimes when I flip this around a little bit, it wakes my spirit up and I shock myself a little bit so I'm gonna do that to you okay instead of building your emergency fund because you're scared sell both cars because you're scared that's good you ain't that scared well all the sudden all the sudden here's the kicker here's the kicker that

we've been waiting for that hasn't happened yet I own a little bit over a million dollars for the real estate that's been on the market between eight different houses and when interest rates spiked sales stopped. So we've kind of been waiting for one of those to sell to just go ahead and pay everything off and be done. See, all of a sudden you start thinking different when I sold your cars. Mm-hmm That's what I did. That's why I do that kind of stuff to myself because what that does is it says okay? You're not really that scared. You're just trying to intellectually manipulate a system. That's not really broken. So work the system, dude In fairness, I do have

Photos out to a dealership to buy my truck because I have a ton of equity in that. That's good. Hey, didn't you say? I really wasn't suggesting you sell them. I'm just saying if you're that scared, that's the move you would make. Yeah. But you're not that scared is what that points out. So that, cause then all of a sudden I found out we got a million dollars where the real estate floating around in this conversation that didn't come up when we first got laid off a few minutes ago. So you know, no, you're going to leapfrog through all these baby steps when that other stuff sells so fast anyway. No, you don't need to sell your truck and no, you don't need to stop.

If you want to take a heartbeat, take one month off of don't pay down on debt, pile up cash for one month out of your budget whatever you can live on living on nothing and then reapply that cash to the debt at that when you get comfortable again the other side of that and start push a pause button on the baby steps then push play again later on that's fine but no we're not going to do them out of order because you got laid off yeah and you really have to think through this because the the point of part of the point of the order of these steps is you wanna actually finish paying off the debt. If you were to do these out of order,

number one, it'd take you forever to save up the three to six months because you're still paying payments every month. So it would elongate that part of the process. And then people would be like, oh, I got three to six months, I can just let that debt simmer. The car doesn't really kind of count.

Yeah, it doesn't really count. And then before you know it, you haven't done anything. And so do it the right way. It works for a reason. And you're not the exception of the millions of people who've done this. And what I would do is I would take this layoff and the fear that goes with that as my motivator to kick this thing into gear

and get it finished. Boom. That's what you do. I'm just going, I'm gonna use that as my push button. Jayden's with us and I'll bring Jayden up in a minute here. So here's another thing, you guys listening out there, if you've listened to the show for a long time, you've heard this happen before,

and Jayden you alluded to it a minute ago. The Bible says out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. So what's going on inside of you comes out of your mouth before you realize it in other words. And so it often happens on the show when you and I or any of the other personalities ask someone, okay how much debt have you got? And they give us like their credit card debt and something else I'm like And how much do you own your car? And then oh, yeah. Yeah, cuz they didn't have that in the debt column in their head Yeah, that's right. And so out of that what that tells us is in their heart

That's not debt. That's right because it's so freaking normalized That you you've normalized the backache to where you've always had a backache and you go oh yeah I forgot about that ache. Doc says what hurts? Oh nothing. What about your back? Oh yeah yeah because I've gotten used to that backache you know and it doesn't no longer feel that way and so and they do that with student loans too.

That's right. They put it in a different column in their brain store it back in the corner and how much debt you got and how much that with student loans too. That's right. You, they put it in a different column in their brain, store it back in the corner and how much debt you got and how much on the student loans? Oh yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And so it's don't recategorize this stuff because society has, because

society is stupid. Normal is broke in America, looking good, driving good, a student loan that's been around so long you think it's a pet, and you recategorize these things in your brain. Don't do that. Don't do that. Put it all right where it needs to be, in the crosshairs and pull the trigger. Knock it out. Knock it out, baby. This is the Ramsey show You've got a lot to keep organized in life. Kids and calendars and carpooling and cleaning, I mean it is so much. That's why you need a knockbox. That way if something happens to you, you leave your loved ones with happy memories

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Your family will thank you. That's knockbox, N-O-K, box.com slash Ramsey. Hey guys, what's up? It's Jade. Look, let's be real. With everything that's been going on, staying on track with your money gets tough between bills, trying to pay off debt, saving money.

Honestly, it's a lot. And I've been there. That's why I'm excited to tell you that Dave Ramsey and I are hosting a free live stream on January 23rd to help you take control of your money in 2025. Plus, Rachel Cruz and George Campbell are also going to join us for a live Q&A where you can finally get your money questions answered on the spot. And check this out, you could win $4,000 in cash.

It's a giveaway. Imagine what you could do with all that money. All you've got to do to enter the giveaway is to sign up for the live stream. That's it. So go to RamseySolutions.com slash live stream and sign up today. Jade Washa, Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Open phones at triple 8 8 2 5 5 at 2 2 5. Jaden is in Casper Wyoming. Hi Jaden, welcome to the Ramsey Shop. Thank you for taking my call, fellas. Sure, Merry Christmas, what's up?

My wife's been pestering me for quite some time now to take her on a vacation. I'm not sure right now is the time to do it. We're both pretty young. I'm 25, she's 21. We got a little one on the way here before too long and we're getting ready to purchase a property we intend to build on. Okay, do you guys have debt? No debt, no debt. We've been very fortunate in that way. Community college educated. Okay. What's your household income? I bring about 50,000 home after taxes and she brings about 20,000 and that's part of the issue is that next year her income will be going away. She's a preschool teacher now but with the little one she's gonna stay home. Do you have

an emergency fund saved? We do. The thing that concerns me is that after the down payment on the property, that's, that's what we'll be left with is with our emergency fund. And so to take that vacation, we'd be kind of having to dig into that a little bit. Well, a vacation is not an emergency. So I would not dig into the emergency fund to take an emergent, to take a vacation ever. Um, what does she want to spend?

She wants to go somewhere warm, you know, Wyoming. This time of year you want to kind of leave it a little bit. About 2000. 2000, okay. So have you run out the numbers on what? Here's the thing. I'm not saying no, and I'm not saying when, but you can decide when.

You can look at this and go, okay, my wife wants to take a vacation. We've never taken a vacation. We're debt free. We have an emergency fund. We're also trying to move in this house. What can that look like and when is the time to take it? Because if you just tell her no

and you kind of just swat it away like a gnat, she's gonna get irritated. Well, no, that's not your position anyway. It's your position for two. She's not a child. Okay, the two of you ought to sit down as two adults and go, okay, yeah vacation is a good thing. Emergency funds a good thing. Having a baby is a good thing. Buying this piece of ground is a good thing. None of these are bad things. Now, where do they fit in our lives with our goals as grown-ups? You know you can't just be a kid on the cereal aisle

throwing a fit. You have to be like an adult, both of you. And so I don't want you being her daddy and have to talk her off the ledge. I want her to grow up and look at it and say as a grown woman who has a child, what is responsible for me? Yeah, I want to take a vacation. I'd love to take a vacation, but as a grown woman looking at this, I can't afford to do it right this second because I'm not going to be working next year after the baby comes. Or as a grown woman looking at this, I've got a child on the way. I really wanna do this, we do have $86,000 in the emergency fund,

we probably can go ahead and take a vacation because you've overfunded the emergency fund, Bubba. I don't know what's in this emergency fund. I mean, she needs to participate in this decision as a grownup, not as someone who has a parent that they're married to. That's right, and if she's laid out how you guys can do this, then... And it's wise. And it's wise, then you've also got to be open to going. You gotta be a grown-up though. It can't be, I want it, I deserve it. You know, bull crap. That's what 14-year-olds

do. That's not what grown women do grown men do So no you have to be emotionally mature and say what is good for our family And if in the midst of that we can do this reasonably and we don't leave our family vulnerable With no emergency fund because we went on vacation that would be stupid Or leave our family vulnerable since you're gonna be quitting work and staying home with the child and you can't make your bills because you went on vacation last winter because it's cold in Wyoming,

which is not a shock to anyone in Wyoming for sure. And so, you know, that kind of, so I mean, what I wanna do is just pull her into the conversation as a grown woman, not as someone who's, I can't get my husband to let me do stupid stuff. I mean, this is just, that's ridiculous. That's not a conversation you wanna have in a marriage. It needs to be the two of you, we have this child,

we have this future, what makes sense, and yes, vacations are part of the equation. I got no issue with that at all. But where they fit is well your point Jade, absolutely. You know? Where and when. Yeah, they don't strike me as people who are not smart with their money. They've paid off their debt, they've got an emergency fund, looks like they're trying to do this house the right way. I have a feeling that he's laser focused and Sometimes has to remember like hey we can we can do some things sometimes. That's just my My spidey sense could be could be yeah, I'll be loose loosening the nerd up I'm listening up the nerd yeah, but she needs to do that with reason. That's right. Not with emotion. That's right

Yeah, and that that's a fair. That's a fair request for a grown-up That's right, yeah. And that's a fair request for a grown-up. Steven is in Little Rock, Arkansas. Hi Steven, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas, how are y'all? Better than we deserve, sir. How can we help? Okay, so here's my situation. I'm 20 years old, I'm engaged and I'm planning on getting married in June. And that being said, we're looking to get an apartment together in June because that's what you do.

You move in together once you get married. Facts. I'm completely debt-free. She has a little bit of student loan debt, but that's kind of aside the point. The question for me is my grandma opened up a credit card for me to use strictly as a gas card and that's my only credit card and she always pays it on time but that being said I have credit.

She pays it. Wait a minute, you're 20 years old why does your grandmother pay your card? That was her way of saying that she wants to support me through college. That was her gift to me. me through college. That was her gift to me. And so I can totally afford my own gas but that's just good if she wanted to give to me. And but I know that I want to get this apartment and I really like the sound of what you'll talk about of letting your credit score roll over to nothing. But I'm afraid that if I say hey grandma, thank you, but let's close this card. I appreciate the gesture. I can pay for this That my credit score will plummet, but it won't flip and disappear before that time in June when I'm trying to get an apartment Honey, you don't have to have a credit score to get an apartment

Okay, that's that's mythology We've done this about six times in Ramsey in the last six or eight years. One of the personalities will jump on the phone and call 15 apartment complexes and say, hey, I'm moving to Nashville. Do you guys, I don't have a credit score because I'm just out of school and I got zero credit score.

Do you guys rent to people without a credit score? Nine out of 10 say they do. Some of of them a couple of them want an extra deposit but most of them are just no it's no big deal come on over that's just complete mythology that people have spread out there among your age group it's just not true exactly nine out of ten or nut don't care if you have a credit score. Awesome I did not know that I was under the impression that my credit score would plummet and that might jeopardize whether or not we'd be able to move back. Your credits when you stop borrowing money your credit score will go away.

It's not gonna plummet it's just gonna disappear. But to Dave's point he's right there are plenty of places that you don't need a credit score to go and so you'll just do your due diligence and find one. Yeah. I just can't rent from those guys because they require one. I can't rent from these people over here though. And by the way, that's a great litmus test because when you move into an apartment, you want to have a super or whoever's in charge that uses their brain because things are going to happen. You're going to need to talk to them about things, and you want something fixed, right?

You want somebody who uses their brain, so that's a great way to start. Yeah, and if the only way they approve you is by a number, that's not using your brain by definition. No. Very good, good stuff. Yeah, you can look those calls up. We've had different personalities do this over the years,

and they're on the YouTube channel, and you can see the making phone calls To the apartments and and it's recorded and you can hear the conversation. Yeah, George went on on the fine print. Remember? Yeah, that's the one I remember and he did he went out and he was able to call him and there were plenty that did You just have to call around a little bit It's not going to be the first it may not be the first doorstep that you go to. That's all. Yeah. And yes, you need to, it'll be good for your marriage to get off the grandmother doll.

I know that's right. Wow. Good for you. Good for you, Stephen. Well done, sir. This is the Ramsey Show. Folks the Ramsey Christmas cash giveaway is here and you could win big. We're giving away $500 prizes each week and one grand prize of $5,000. Enter daily for your chance to win at ramsysolutions.com slash giveaway. It's that easy. Plus our 50 days of Christmas deals is on right now. Get up to 30% off bestsellers and life-changing gifts that won't break the holiday budget. ramsaysolutions.com slash store.

Jade Walshaw, Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. Thanks for being with us. Christmas is here. Can you believe it wow hey last minute shoppers out there it's game time don't miss a last chance to grab a life-changing book or set of tools this Christmas to help people really I mean you can even give them a great book that changes their life or an ugly tie you get a choice you know total money makeovers 30% off building a non-anxious life is 30% off breaking free from broke is on sale Georgia's first number one questions for human decks are just $12 all kinds of goodies and in most places

we can still get it to you but you need to go there today Ramsey solutions comm slash store Chris is in Seattle. Hi Chris, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Thank you much. Sure, what's up? I'm calling in to understand kind of what my focus should be. I've got a three-year-old kid at home, I've got a wife who's been battling cancer for the last ten years roughly, but it's taken a tough right-hand turn in the last few months and gotten different prognosis ranging from you know a couple years to maybe five at most. So trying to figure out what should my focus financially be on whether making

the here and now as enjoyable as we can versus trying to make sure we're still saving for the future of my son and I. Well, I'm sorry. It's tough. How old are you guys? 38, 37. I've got a three-year-old son at home. We've been together for almost 20 years now. Wow. Well, the turn of events, the prognosis change, would change my strategy, I think. Mm-hmm. Okay. Because you're saying they've put her on a clock and it's a shorter one. Yeah.

Yeah. We had some new read diagnosis is kind of progression of disease. Okay. All right. Well, what we teach folks to do and it's, is you're not working the baby steps, you're fighting cancer. So what I would do if I were in your shoes, what do you make? Together we're just over 250.

So I'm making about 130 or so myself. I would just pile cash as high as I can pile it. Okay. And do nothing else. I mean I would do that with the same intensity that I would have getting out of debt or something if you were in a more normal situation. And so, and when we're piling the cash as high as we can pile it, I've got two things I want to accomplish, three things I want to accomplish with that pile of cash.

One is obviously any kind of care or trials or anything that you need to write checks for you write them right mm-hmm and so we'll take care of her in other words that's that's the first goal of the pile of cash the second goal would be to do some things to make memories and you know the the trip you you wanna do or the thing you need to purchase to make things more comfortable around there right now. The thing you've gotta be careful with on that one is that you don't go out of control with that.

Because in the name of that, people do some really stupid things. You know, like I don't wanna hear later that you spent $200,000 on some some trip that's not what I'm talking about okay but I am talking about okay there's some things that that if we were just if everybody was healthy and we were leaning in getting out of debt we wouldn't be doing this thing but we're gonna do it in this case instead whatever this thing is but reasonable dollar amounts and not getting sucked

into in the name of we have a short clock we're gonna do it we can get away with anything because you can't because you got to live with it later right yeah so anyway do some things like that that are good and strategic wise things do anything for her to take care of her fight cancer do some things for the family. And then the third thing is you're piling up cash for some day, what day, I don't know, that this is behind you, you just take that money and push play on the baby steps and you throw it at the debt.

And you go after the debt then and you go, you know, you go work your baby steps when you're the other side of this. She's healed and she's here or she's healed and she's in heaven I don't know which one it is but either way one of those two and this is in your rear view mirror so to speak and you start then you start you know executing a good financial plan at that point but right now we're just going to stack cash to fight cancer, have a good life, and any cash that's left over in that stack is not wasted because we'll be able to use it to start the new version of our journey later. Does that all sound fair? That does, yeah. We've been, I mean up to this point we've made a pretty good progress I'd say financially with everything and I've been living fairly frugally. It's

just a matter of... I don't care if you save 200 grand is what I'm saying. Just pile it up. There's no downside to that. And then if you want to fly to Paris and do a clinical of some kind, fine. Book a first class ticket and let's go do a clinical trial in Paris. I don't care. I'm making that up. I have no idea. But I mean, you know, but the, I've certainly got friends that have fought cancer situations

and found it very handy to have a pile of cash while they were doing it. That's what I'm saying. So, and I'm so sorry, Chris. I hate what I'm saying. So, I'm so sorry Chris. I hate that for you guys. So sorry. How old is your baby? Three years old. Okay. So it's hard for him to grasp other than just mommy's sick. Yeah. So she's down right now then. Well we just started new treatment on last Saturday, so it's in it kind of wait and see how things react, but she's going to be stepping away from work after the new year and kind of play up a year from there.

Yeah. And the new treatment just a beefed up chemo or what? It's kind of the next new thing on the line. It's kind of attack things from a different angle and see if we can halt progress again and hold it as long as we can. There's new side effects that are unknown how she'll react at this point. You know, the cure, the cure is brutal sometimes. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, Chris, I'm sorry. Um, but yeah, I really wouldn't focus on any financial goals other than just being wise with the cash flow So that we're able to stack cash to those three goals. I talked about okay Okay, just just give you give yourself a lot of grace a lot of room That's right and live this out and and you know lean into it fight cancer with everything Every fiber of your being and that includes the fibers of the dollar bills coming out of your wallet, same thing.

Wow. Well, that's tough stuff. There are times though, I mean, it's good to reiterate, there are things that pop up in life that supersede what you're trying to do financially. Yeah. You know? You're in the middle of a storm, you push pause.

That's right. You don't work the baby steps in a storm. Whatever the storm is, I mean, you lose your job, and you don't have the income to fight. You know, somebody's ill like this, you've gotta stop and focus on that. There's a tragedy of some kind or another, you have to stop for a minute.

You do. And get your bearings, get your feet back on the ground, and then decide from there what the next steps are and where you go. That's not a baby step. It's a just push pause and walk away. And use the resources that you have coming in, your income to navigate the storm,

to be ready and to push your way all the way through it so yeah that's a that's a big deal Chris I'm so sorry that's tough very tough we'll be praying for you brother and for her obviously um very very cool ah open phones here at triple eight eight two five five two two five I co-signed with a girlfriend of six years on a car oh now we've been broken up for two years oh and she's been late on multiple payments oh she is not eligible for refinancing because of her credit oh we we going to coffee baby doll you selling your car mm- don't I'm gonna sue you because you're destroying my credit

basically yeah see you made a mistake you signed with your ex-boyfriend on your car and now you can't pay the car so now you're selling it. People do not buy crap with people you are not married to. Hello. I know that's right. Wow. This is the Ramsey Show. Are you determined to get out of debt and build wealth this new year? Then don't leave out an important step, which is having the right insurance. Don't make the mistake of thinking you can get by

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To check it out, go to ramsysolutions.com slash checkup. That's ramsysolutions.com slash checkup. If you wanna hear the next segment of the Ramsey show after this one's over, you'll do that on the Ramsey Network app. That's the only place you can hear it except for a few talk radio stations here or there. So in the Ramsey Network app you can download for free and it not only gives you lots of access to portions of this show and other shows that don't necessarily make the air so you get a you know kind of a behind-the-scenes look you can search

the show for certain topics and find callers calling in about certain topics that's pretty cool and you can also send us a an email question all right today's Ramsey Network app question is from Davy. He says, I'm wondering why baby step one isn't start your first budget and giving every dollar a name. Then baby step two would be save your $1,000 emergency fund and so on. Since you always emphasize budgeting first,

why isn't that number one? I don't know why this is making me laugh. I mean, yeah. You're right, budgeting is the foundation of everything we teach. Matter of fact, some folks in here that I work with, we call it like baby step zero or just kind of like, there is that thought to it, it is the foundation. But I mean, listen, the reason it's not like that

is because it's not like that. No, the reason it's not like that is it's not a financial milestone. It's a tool and a practice that hits a financial milestone. All the baby steps are financial milestones. So it's not a financial measure. The same reason insurance, you know, buy health insurance is not a baby step. It's not a financial milestone.

It's something you need to do. Buy life insurance is not a baby step. It's not a financial milestone. It's something you need to do. By life insurance is not a baby step. It's something you need to do. Do it will. You do it the minute you find out about it. Doing a will is not a baby step. It's a tool, it's an item, it's a practice, it's a habit. It's a thing you need to do that causes you

to hit the financial milestones. That's good. That's why it's not a baby step. And so all of those other things fall in the same category as the budget does. There are why it's not a baby step. And so all of those other things fall in the same category as the budget does. There are things you need to be doing. Living on less than you make is something you need to do. But it's not a baby step because it's not a financial milestone. A thousand dollars is a financial milestone. Getting all your debts paid off except your home, baby step two is paying them off smallest

to largest in that order using the debt snowball is a financial milestone. Finishing your emergency funds, a financial milestone. 15% of your household income, measurable amount of money going into retirement is a financial milestone. Addressing kids' college needs in baby step five is a financial milestone. Six, paying off your house is a financial milestone.

All of these are money things that we're measuring as we make progress on money. They're not the thing, get a job, take extra jobs are not a financial milestone, but they're things you need to do to create, create an income would be necessary. That's right. In order to do these things.

So increase your income. These are all tactical things you do to hit the milestones. That's why it's not. And it's I think the question was semi-serious. So you're not going to rewrite the baby steps? You're not going to re-release them? Not today. On Davey's plan? We're going to stay with Dave, not Davey. There you go. That's what we're going to do. Emmanuel is with us in Dallas, Texas.

Hi, Emmanuel. What's up? Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. So the numbers, just to get through quickly or efficiently, the numbers are 94,000 in debt, 56K is from a car. The car max value would be 40 to 43k and I'm paying 1200 per month for that.

Oh, why? Yeah, so yeah, right, exactly, exactly. So my story is kind of like a five-year timeline. straight out of college. Um, I moved to California so I can, you know, continue my college relationship after working at home. The job I had was like miserable. Um, and there just wasn't any growth in it. So I decided to just take the job. I followed love and, um, being, being able to working out, I ended up

becoming a mortgage loan officer. And so I made great money, uh, at a young age, um, making like over 10 K a month. But you know, that didn't last for a long time. The industry died because the brakes crashed. After that I got into recruiting. Um, same thing. I made amazing money. I was making $50 an hour and I was sugar daddy. Everything was fine. Um, but then the economy you know it crashed at mass layoffs again and so now you know now

I'm pretty much just I've been doing everything it's not a work ethic problem it's a things just haven't really been swinging my way but I've still been working and it's just kind of like a paycheck to paycheck situation. And yet you still bought a $56,000 car? What's your question? So that, no, no, no. That is a result of like me having to deal with like family dynamics and family issues. So through all of that.

Wait a minute, I'm sorry. There are no family dynamics that require a $56,000 car. That's absolute bull crap. Okay, okay. You had to impress somebody in the family? makes it require a $56,000 car. That's absolute bull crap. Uh, okay. Okay. So you, you couldn't, you had to impress somebody in the family. I mean, what kind of ridiculous family dynamic causes you to buy a $60,000 car you can't afford. Right. Exactly. So if I could explain, um,

I'm dealing with like a super difficult mother-in-law. And uh. Are you married? Are you married? No, I'm, we're engaged. Okay. Got it. And she told you to buy the $56,000 car.

No, no. That was as a result of, that was just like, so I keep having to put my foot down with the mother-in-law because things just, it's kind of the situation like, she does like things that are just like so I keep having to put my foot down with the mother-in-law Because things just it's kind of the situation like I think that are just like not acceptable What's the what's the car I'm calling for my clarity. So I know but what does a mother-in-law have to do with you buying a car I don't understand it was a crazy so all of this is happening while I while I while we are two under two I have a daughter that's two years old and my son is too much okay so I got laid off you got laid off you got two young kids

dollars now and it wasn't your wife that wanted you to get the car and you felt pressure from? He's not married. Or your fiance. No, I got the car because I told her I don't ever want to have to like rely on my mother-in-law because I've been living with them because my family lives in Maryland. Not relying on your mother-in-law does not require a $56,000 car, honey. Yeah, we got a reframe it we got a reframe what's in your mind because I think in your mind You thought somehow that was gonna give you some sort of freedom. I don't know how but maybe you were borrowing her vehicle

I don't know but you get a $5600 car. Yes, you got to sell that car and have the freedom Don't sell it to car max because they're not gonna give you the best value. You need to do it private sale. So look it up. My guess is that you'll get pretty close to the 56 that you owe on it. You have to get out of this immediately.

And it sounds like there's not the right boundaries between your fiance's mother and you. And so you and your fiance are gonna have to deal with that. You've got two under two. So I heard you say that I think you were laid off or between jobs, so you've gotta get a job very quickly. So your homework list is I sell the car private sale,

I get a job, I draw boundaries with the people who are not my parents, and even boundaries with this, she's not even your in-law yet, cause you're not married, so you need to get married. So that's on your list. Number three, no, number four is get married this weekend yeah you got a bunch of this crap out of order so um and then you can just look at mother-in-law and go I you don't have a vote on my car you don't get a vote

for my car yeah yeah and no one has a vote on your car your wife and and she's not even your wife yet so let's make's make her your wife and then the two of you decide on cars, but a $5,600 car will allow you to not borrow other people's car. And you need to, and this is for anybody listening who feels discombobulated like my guy who was just on the phone. You got to sit down and have a moment with yourself. Maybe you have a journal, maybe you just, you got, if you don't sit and say, what was my part in all of this, you won't change. If you're saying, well, it happened because we got two

under two and it happened because I got laid off and it happened because grandma and it happened because my mother-in-law, you're never, then you're never at fault. And that means you never have to change. And that's not how life works. You're gonna have to sit down and go, what did I do I'm the one that said yeah I'll sign my name right here. That's the truth you're the one who signed for

the car so you're responsible for it. I felt pressured and I made a stupid decision. Boom. There we go. Easy done it. Easy does it. Done that. I've done that myself. That also helps you to not react to pressure ever again. That's right. You want to do it again if you take responsibility for it. My tolerance for people telling me what to do with my money is pretty low. Like zero now. This is the Ramsey Show. Music What's up? It's Dr. John Delaney from The Dr. John Delaney Show with some amazing news. The latest episode of United States of Anxiety is available right now exclusively on the

Ramsey Network App. This docuseries follows real people from my show as they embark on a 90 day journey to transform their lives and I personally walk alongside them every step of the way. Okay, now here's a sneak peek of what the new episode is all about. And don't forget to click the link in the show notes to download the app. What's up, Kelsey? So I've lived with crippling anxiety for as long as I can remember.

How do I stop it from constantly coming up in different areas of my life? What does crippling anxiety mean? Paint me a picture of that. All right. So you're ready to jump in. I'm ready to jump in. We're going to check in with Kelsey

30 days, 60 days, 90 days. I cannot even function because I'm just crying. My mom left us when I was four. I truly felt like for a while I had no family. She's experiencing things that really hurt a long time ago. Tell me about this boy. He triggered me a lot. Scared of losing Paul, scared of doing the wrong thing, scared of not being enough.

It just feels like it would be exhausting to be Kelsey. It is. Whenever somebody's playing whack-a-mole with their anxiety, when it just keeps moving, that tells me the underlying system's not okay. How do I get my inner child out of this relationship? Because I feel like she's running the show. One of two people that's supposed to never leave took off. How is this... How is this burden?

You burden, that's right. To the one person who should carry it. All of it. Did you ever tell that little girl that it wasn't her fault? I don't know what to do. Do you either have to choose to let this guy love you, or you gotta choose to let this guy go.