The Ramsey Show - Building Wealth Happens One Baby Step at a Time

Episode Date: January 28, 2025

📈 Are you on track with the Baby Steps? Get a Free Personalized Plan Ken Coleman & Dr. John Delony answer your questions and discuss: "When do we stop investing and start giving?" "My ex wants to spend way too much on our kid," "How do I stop having 'retirement guilt'?" "Can we upgrade our home when we retire?" "I'll never be able to match my fiancée's lifestyle," "We might lose our dream home." Support Our Sponsors: 🌱 Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp ◎ Get 10% off Byrna product bundles and more! 🏥 Learn more about Christian Healthcare Ministries 🏡 Get started today with Churchill Mortgage 🔒 Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe 🏦 Go to FAIRWINDS Credit Union for an exclusive account bundle! 🥗 Save 15% on your first Field of Greens order with code RAMSEY 💸 Learn more about opening a high-yield savings account with Laurel Road 💻 Visit NetSuite today to learn more 🗂️ Use promo code RAMSEY for 18% off at The Nokbox 💵 Learn more about Timothy Plan 🏛 Get started with YRefy or call 844-2-RAMSEY 🔐 Visit Zander Insurance for your free instant quote today! Next Steps 📱 Watch the full episode for free in the Ramsey Network app. 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET or click here! 📄 Need help with your taxes? See who we trust. 🎟️ Get Tickets to the Money & Relationships Tour 💵 Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app! 🪑 Check out Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman! 🏘️ Free Tools & Resources to Reach Your Home Goals Listen to more from Ramsey Network 🎙️ The Ramsey Show   🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 💰 George Kamel 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Welcome to the Ramsey Show where we help you win in your life. We're going to help you win in your money, win in your profession, and win in your relationships. The phone number to jump in today so we can coach you up is triple eight eight two five five two two five. Alongside the incomparable the doctor is in sign is hanging above my head Dr. John DeLoney. What's up? My pal and seat mate if you will and I'm Ken Coleman and so we are here for you today. So no money personalities but we know the basics and we're gonna help you out. We're gonna get

behind some of this stuff. So excited to have you with us. Corey's gonna start us off John in Detroit, Michigan. Corey, how can we help today? Thank you for taking my call. You bet. What's going on? My wife and I are kind of trying to think in the future and we know that our wealth is going to be significant, and we're just trying to figure out, when do we start to give? Yes. Yeah.

Tell us about this wealth. We know we're going to be wealthy. Give us a picture of what's going on and when it happens. We're currently at around 900,000. And my wife and I are teachers, so we have a pension as well. We have about $320,000 in Roths. We have $210,000 in our $457,000. We currently max out our Roths, our $457,000 every year, and then we have two additional

properties besides our single residence. And those are paid for? Yes. So what's your net worth? 900? Around 900. Okay. So what is the question? I love how John answered. He's absolutely right. So what is the specific giving strategy or question marks you have around this? What are you pondering? So we live comfortably as we are and as we're saving, and our kids' colleges are taken care of, and our goals are set.

And we know we'll achieve our goals. The question is, when do we stop building our wealth and when do we start giving it away? What if it's both ends? Exploring that part. It's both ends. Do y'all not give at all right now? At this moment, no.

Okay. What has inspired the question about giving? We sat down and we paid off our properties. We're saving 35% of our income, and we still are comfortable. So we're realizing that we have an excess. Yeah, but back to John's question. Is there a specific cause, something that has spurred this on, where you want to give, you're wondering about it? We're maxed out. We have a child that's going to be leaving daycare, going into kindergarten.

That's when we kind of really sat down and what do we do with this additional money? So we're trying this to figure out, do we continue investing? Do we keep building wealth? Or at what point do we start to share? You do both. My honest answer would be you start to share years ago because I think generosity is a position, it's a stance you take on the world. When you look at giving as a number, we'll start doing X when we get there. What most people find is their life

continues to grow, their needs and their expenses grow with them and that number just, that finish line keeps moving and moving and moving. So giving is a way of being. It's a way of going through the world saying, I got struck by lightning in that I'm married well, my jobs have been stable, I've worked out, I was left in inheritance, I worked really hard, I owned a small port-a-potty company, and then all of a sudden some guy bought 40,000 acres next to us and now I'm a million, like whatever the posture is, or I'm a person of faith,

and everything, every single breath that takes a blessing, and so I'm a pass through, I'm gonna let this thing, I'm gonna let so much of this go back to those who need. Whatever your position is, every single psychological study, every single faith community throughout all of human history has wired into it generosity, giving, being a pass-through. And so, for the sake of your soul, not like in a go to church or you go to hell, that's what I'm talking about, but for the sake of your soul, not like in a, like in a go to church or you go to hell, that's what I'm talking about. But for the sake of your spirit, of your soul, your marriage, your kids, yeah, start giving today. Find causes that matter to you, find moments that matter to you, find people that you see that we can be a blessing towards and begin to practice it.

And, Ken, I tell people practice this in little ways, meaning wait until you see at a restaurant when you see a waitress who's working five different sections because people didn't show up on their shift and she's exhausted and your food's a little bit late, and tip her 100% of the tab. And write her a note that says, we saw how hard you're working, we're grateful for you.

Do that, and then just watch her when she opens it up. Do small things like that and then find somebody at your kid's kindergarten who can't afford the tuition and tell the headmaster, hey, we'd like to pick up somebody's tuition, just let us know. Or be more strategic about it once you think about it, but it's just a posture. Yeah, Corey, did I hear you say you guys are investing 35%? Yes. Yeah. Corey, did I hear you say you guys are investing 35%? Yes.

Yeah. Look, here's what Dave has taught for years. And of course, we sing that chorus as well. What we teach is in the Baby Steps. Are you familiar with the Baby Steps? I'm assuming you are. Yes, we went through them and paid everything off. Exactly.

So you get to do whatever you want. But we've prescribed for 15%. And you guys are in great shape. So you could say, we're going to go back to that and we're going to invest 15% and we're not going to stop. Okay. That's the, when John and I said yes, and that's that. Now, if you want to do more than that, you can, but that's the rule of thumb and you're in great shape. So at which point you now go, okay, if I'm going to invest 15% or 35%, then whatever's left over, how much of my income am I going to set aside for continuous giving?

So John's right. You can give where you are, however you're moving throughout the day, you'll find opportunities to give. But for strategic giving, then I would put a budget number on it. And so let's say you said we're gonna do for sake of discussion let's say you're gonna go back to investing 15% and That's the continuing build but then you go. Okay, we're gonna then and we're gonna take that 35 We've been investing we're gonna invest 15 and we're gonna take 20% of our income and that is now our giving fund and To John's point if you feel generous and you want to leave a $500 tip that comes out of that number, if you want to invest in a nonprofit, a mission organization, your church, some type of charity,

I would find a cause that's near and dear to both you and your wife and something that has a story attached to it that connects to you all's story. I think that's a great way to do it. But you get to decide. But I would just start immediately doing it. And you've got the margin. And so now if you're investing 15 percent and you are giving 20 percent, or whatever ratio you want to do there, I would start right away. Okay. Well, just kind of tap onto that.

Would you give smaller or would you invest and then give later in larger amounts? Again, we're not genie in a bottle. So I'm not going to answer that. I like John's answer. You get to decide, Cory. There's no, I'm not turning to page five in the, in the, in the Ramsey manual right now to answer that question because that is so individual to you. We're not being coy. It's a posture. It's a posture. You do what you want to do. But my only advice on that is, John, and you weigh in on this, if I was in your position, Cory, I would be giving a substantial chunk consistently to

something that I deeply connected to. Absolutely. I would leave it at that. You get to fill in what deeply connected to looks like. Yes. And I think what you need to do, Corey, is get out of the spreadsheet and into life. And so, yes, there's going to be a library someday that wants an extra gargoyle that your nine million dollars could pay for.

You're right. But you want something special? an extra gargoyle that your nine million dollars could pay for. You're right. But you want something special? Go tip your waiter a hundred bucks at a Waffle House and he'll chase you out into the parking lot and hug you because you just took care of his kids light bill. Right? You just put food on their table for a month. I love that you're bringing me to a special customized gargoyle. There's a lot to unpack there on a commercial break. It tells me so much that I love about you.

Hey, we have some special coming back. Big news, big announcement. We'll tell you. Can't wait. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. Have you gotten one of those texts recently claiming to be the USPS with some sketchy link

to update your address? It's annoying and a little terrifying. And you probably think to yourself, I should do something about this. But where do you even start? Well, as your nerdy friend who does the research for you, I found the solution. They're called delete me. And here's the reason they come in the clutch. The internet is packed with data brokers, which are these shady companies whose sole purpose is to collect your personal info and sell it for a profit. Enter DeleteMe. DeleteMe swoops in, finds your info on these sites, and removes it on your behalf. They even send you a report with all the details. And so far, for me personally, they have reviewed 27,000 listings,

removed my info from 240 data brokers, and saved me 66 hours in the process. I trust DeleteMe to help protect my family, and I trust them to help you you too. You're gonna get fewer spam texts, fewer phishing emails, and fewer creepy robocalls. And Delete Me also makes a great gift for other people in your life that you care about. Individual plans start at just nine dollars a month so take an easy step to protect yourself and your loved ones today. And as a Ramsey fan you'll get an extra 20% off any of their plans at JoinDeleteMe.com slash Ramsey. That's JoinDeleteMe.com slash Ramsey.

Welcome back, America. Thrilled to have you with us here on the Ramsey Show alongside Dr. John Delaney. I'm Ken Coleman and we're here for you. The phone number, by the way, to jump in is triple eight, eight two five, five two two five. That's triple eight, eight two five, five two two five. All right Ken, I gotta jump in. You're jumping in. I have been waiting for weeks and weeks and weeks

for to be able to talk about this publicly, man. This is amazing. It's a huge day for Ken Coleman, for your family, for this company and this incredible new show called Front Row Seat that you're premiering this week. So tell us the genesis of this thing, tell us how it's been going. And I'm so jealous of everything from the... It does look cool, the team's amazing. The talent, the team, the videos, all of this, the set design, everything's rad. Tell us all about it.

So if you're old enough to know the show Inside the Actors Studio, if you remember that where fame movie television and producer professor, James Lipton would interview the best of the best of actors, directors, producers, and he would do it in front of a classroom in a theater, but a true classroom, and then the students themselves would get a chance to jump in and ask questions. That's the concept of front row seats, why we call it front row seat, because we will be doing this in front of a live audience surrounding a very small intimate audience surrounding me and the guest, and then we'll do virtual audiences. And so where you can sit in almost on a group Zoom

with somebody that you would never get the opportunity to talk to, but you don't just listen and learn, you actually get to ask questions. That's why we call it Front Row Seat. And we're focused on three things. We want people to get better personally. Think of all the areas of your personal life. You think about your relational life.

That's where you're focused on helping people. You think of your physical life, your mental and emotional life. We bring whatever version we have to work. And so we want people to get better, so bringing in people that are experts in all of those areas. Deep dive, how can we get better? So that we can go to work and we have the best opportunity to do our best work and move

up, whatever move up looks like. And then ultimately, as you move up in America, you get thrown into leadership positions that you're largely not trained for. So some Leadership 101 stuff. So you're thinking about personal growth topics, growth development topics at work, and then Leadership 101 stuff

from some of the best voices in the world. Our debut episode out today, former governor, first female governor of South Carolina, Nikki Haley. Now, if you're on the Trump side of things, you're gonna have to get over it because it's not a political interview. Well, it's a great interview.

This is a leadership interview. And I'm gonna be sitting with people that are left, right, middle, don't even wanna talk about it because this conversation is designed to make us think, to make us feel, and to make us do. And that's what we're doing with the show and I'm really excited about it. It's my roots by the way. Yeah, I was going to say, you've been interviewing people, athletes, presidents, you've been

interviewing people who are extraordinary in what they do forever. Like for way before you were. Yeah, and I've had the opportunity to do a lot of coaching here on the Ken Coleman show, but this is a natural evolution of what I've always wanted to do. And I think that, you know, I always tell people, do what your heart tells you to do. Follow your heart, Dave, and the leadership. This is a show that I've wanted to do for a very long time and so we're doing it and it's designed to again bring in a large audience.

If you listen to this show for money issues, you're going to love this show. And so the audience themselves brings in a representation, that live audience represents the people listening and watching. So I would say this and we'll move on to the calls. You can get it on YouTube, podcast app, the Ram listening and watching. So I would say this, and we'll move on to the calls, you can get it on YouTube, podcast app, the Ramsey Network app, all you gotta search is front row seat, Ken Coleman, and it'll come up, and it's live now, and I will say this,

this interview with Nikki Haley, a deep dive on her past as a child, an immigrant who dealt with bullying because of a race, a woman who broke a barrier and then stood up for one of the biggest issues that divides us racially. I mean this is a woman of great substance whether you like her or not, I think you'll learn something from this interview. That's all I'd say on that. Well and my favorite, here's what I think sets this whole show apart, and I can't wait to see this thing just hit the ground running, dude, is I don't know how many times we listen to podcasts and someone's doing an interview

and I think, yeah, but hold on, but what about, and I want to inject myself in that conversation or at least ask the next question or that felt like a softball and you have a live audience. You have real people in there that get to do that. And that, I don't know that that show exists anywhere, right? My favorite part is allowing people to get a chance to speak up and ask a question. And that's their question. So I love it. I love it.

I love it, man. There it is. Front row seat now available from Ramsey Solutions. You can get it wherever you get your podcast and on YouTube. All right. To the phones we go. Sarah is joining us in Charlotte, North Carolina. Sarah, how can we help today?

Hi, thanks for taking my call. You bet. What's going on? So my question is, how much should I be contributing to my kids by 29? You know, what's the, I know there's no magic number of what, you know, what college is going to cost for them, but is there a point of, you get $100,000 in there, should you be putting it in a high-yield savings account instead, just in case? Sure, how old are they, and have you done any investing so far?

So there's six and three. And my six-year-old, we have 1515,000 sitting in his account at this point. Good. And my three-year-old, $6,700. Good. So if you were just, look, if you get on ramsysolutions.com after this call and pull up our investment calculator, punch those numbers in. And it'll be a real fun exercise for you to see, okay, at 18, based on those two amounts, and put in a modest return, nothing crazy, then you're gonna see what that number is gonna add up to. But I think, John, I like her question, you know, there's no magic answer, but you get to about a hundred grand. I'm curious, if

I were you, and I'm thinking what education may or may not look like 15 years from now. You can know this Sarah that with AI, with college will look different for your kids than it did for us. I think a hundred grand is pretty good. Just know that. What are your thoughts on that number? And I will also add our mortgage, I've calculated out that once our kids are out of daycare that we're going to increase our mortgage payments and I should have it paid off the year my oldest goes to college. Sure, so there's an awesome and then a, let me just check you on it, okay? That will be the year also that one of your parents calls and says, we need to move in with you.

So I know in your head, probably I want to get to a place where I can just cashflow all of this. And I like that idea. I like that sentiment. And also just be prepared for life to happen along the way too, right? Yeah. I would really do the investment calculator, Sarah. I really would. So that you can actually see how these numbers play out. Because again, if you... You could make the case to put 150 to 200 away per kid. That's real right now. That won't cover a lot of schools for four years. We know that. If you put 200 away, you'll be fine.

200, you're easy okay. You're fine. But I just believe that it's a tough thing to discuss, John, because you and I both, we talk about this all the time, higher ed is going to look dramatically different. Would you agree with that at least? About 1000%. Okay, let me ask you this.

Actually, we've never talked about this. If that's true, I don't see how it gets more expensive. I see it getting less expensive. The only way it gets, if you see a, and again this is what higher ed people talk, like me and my colleagues have talked about for years behind closed doors, like just having those, we call them sad lunches, right? If you saw a dramatic number of colleges close, which I don't think is wild speculation.

Oh no, I think it's gonna happen. Then it will make the remaining colleges very, very exclusive and thus very, very expensive. Interesting. Right? And I think the marquee will be on a shared experience. It will be the cultural aspect as much, if not more so, than the information. If I've got a personal bot who can just coach me

along the way. And see, that's where I think, you know what? That's a fun discussion for another time. The human element will be, can I associate and talk to and hang out with other people my age and older? Can I have multiple leaders? Like you have multiple professors, et cetera. I think there'll be more,

I think that there will be a premium level, just like there's really fancy restaurants now. That's exactly right. But I do think we're seeing the cost of tuition, student loans, I think COVID started the tide. I do think we're gonna see decentralized higher ed. And thus, I think it's gonna be a lot less expensive. That would be my prediction.

I could be wrong. I still think there'll be your premium place. There's always gonna be a Ritz-Carlton. That's right, that's right. But Airbnb's didn't exist. That could be wrong. I still think they'll be your premium place. There's always gonna be a Ritz-Carlton. That's right. That's right. But Airbnb's didn't exist. That's exactly right. All right, quick break. He's Dr. John Delaney. I'm Ken Coleman. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. Hey, George Campbell here with a not-so-fun fact. Every American social security number, including our children's, has been hacked and is now on the dark web.

And this is not a scare tactic, this isn't fear-mongering, it's a reality that could turn into a nightmare for a lot of people. And believe me, I've been a victim of identity theft, and I would prefer it never happen again. Because once the bad guys have your social, it's the lifeblood for all of their activity. Think of all the places you use your social. Your banking, your employer, government offices, utilities, cell phone companies, everywhere. And once they've got it, thieves can open new accounts, drain existing ones, steal payroll, and wreak havoc all in your name. Not cool. And to be

real, it's not a matter of if, but when. So you've got to protect yourself with Xander's ID theft protection. Xander has all the cyber tools to help, including home title monitoring, full recovery services if you do become a victim, and stolen funds protection. Not to mention, it's the best value on the market. They've been protecting my family for over a decade, and I trust them to protect yours too. So get enrolled today by calling 800-356-4282, or just visit xander.com. That's z-a-n-d-e-r.com. or just visit zander.com. That's z-a-n-d-e-r dot com. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you with us. 888-825-5225 is the number to jump in. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Delaney is joining me today. Jack is with us now in Cleveland, Ohio. Jack, how can we help?

Hey guys, how are you? We're having a blast. What's going on with you? Okay, so I just need some advice. I have a kid with my ex and my kid is getting older and big expenses are starting to come up and I don't know how to tell my ex. We're pretty good co-parenting. We just talk about things a lot. Um, but I think there's an expectation with money and I don't think I can meet their expectation with money. So I have, it's like a finance question and it's really morale, you know,

like my kid needs braces or wants braces. It's not medically necessary. And that's $6,000, she wants to split it with three grand apiece, I just don't have it. Is that something I am just obligated to pay anyway and just figure it out? No. Or am I allowed to say no? And then there's a car that's being brought up right now

and there's just some big expenses coming up and she wants to split everything, and I don't know how I can really do that. Well, it's pretty common. I don't have a conversation whether really do that. Well, it's pretty common. Well, I don't have the conversation whether I should say. Well, it's pretty common that people get sideways at this age. And some parents like you are just steeped in reality.

This is how much money I have. Like, even if I wanted to buy you $6,000 braces, which I do, I want you to have the things that you think are gonna make you feel beautiful. I want you to have that. And I don't have those dollars. Right? And then there's other parents who, as the kid gets older, they want to use money and stuff as a proxy for the world that they thought they would have been able to give them had there not been a divorce. I want you to have this fancy car, I want you to have these fancy clothes and this fancy whatever. I want to say yes to everything that you want. What's your relationship with with Stepmom?

Y'all communicate well, y'all co-parent well? It was really, really rocky in the early years. We've worked on it really well and I think that we're, I mean at one point we've even had a couple of beers together so I think we've worked on it really well and I think that we're I mean at one point we've even had a couple of beers together so I think we've gotten pretty okay um but I just you know I just you know my kid is you know 15 going on 16 and she's so getting so expensive now with yeah figure ticket items it's not just closed anymore so well I so here's what you have to do you have to sit down with your ex-wife and say, hey, could we meet? And I'm glad that y'all are acting like adults. Oh, it's awesome.

I love it when adults act like adults. It's so good. So rare, so high five to you. And just say, hey, here's my financial situation. Here's where we are. It would be honoring to you that you're, she doesn't say, I want to buy this, but your dad's too cheap to,

cause at the end of the day, that doesn't hurt you as much as it hurts that kid. And so if y'all could come to some sort of agreement on those kinds of things, and maybe you can't, and you'll remember, oh, this is why we got divorced in the first place. Hopefully she could say, well, in my new world, I've got 5,000 bucks, if you could do 1,000,

I'm gonna tell the kid that we're splitting this together. And y'all work out the money behind closed doors like adults whatever you can put in there but there you have a financial reality that you want to stick to and I hopefully y'all can sit down and have an adult conversation to come to some consensus here we're not getting her Alexis that's never possible I can come up over the next year with $3,500 that I could contribute to a Camry. Right. And if you wanted to have a new camera. Okay, go ahead. So we were kind of going down that path right now. And I think you're going to say no, I'm assuming you're going to say no, but don't take out any loans. Please.

Okay. Yes. Well, that's exactly kind of where she wants to go. It's not necessarily a loan, it's an IOU to her. She wants to cross the money. God no! Don't borrow money, but if you have to choose between a bank and your ex-wife, good God, at least there's like laws regulating a bank. Yeah, I mean, Jack, I'm sitting here listening to you and John talk. You already knew the answer to the question that you asked. I think you're, and again, no judgment here. I'm seriously putting myself in your shoes.

I would be a mess internally if I were in your shoes right now because I would be afraid that my ex isn't going gonna like what is the reality and she's gonna say something or do something and then my kid is gonna think that I don't love him as much. I would be sick to my stomach. Just being honest, John. Yeah, heck yeah.

Jack, I think that's what you're dealing with. That's the question, how I feel. All right, so now that's what we need to address because when you started this call, you already knew what's reasonable and what's right and what is real I can't afford it. You can't but what's also real John is that Jack can be manipulated Correct into and I could to over love my all of us Overloving our 16 year old daughters. Yes into credit cards and all the other things to just get through this and you know what?

I'd rather deal with the financial pain Than the emotional pain of disappointing my kid. I think that's where he sits. Am I right, Jack? Yeah, that's right. It's what I'm... Okay, so have you taken her out, your 16 year old out, and just said, I just want to paint you a picture

of how the world works. Here's how much money I got. And your mom loves you and she wants to buy you this and I love you and I want to buy you this and here's what reality is. That's what I agree. I agree that's the tack Jack. You got to go directly to your daughter. She's 16. I agree. And I know leather seats feel like it's more love. It's really not. Right? Like, um, explain the why that conversation. What would happen if you had that conversation? I don't know. I used to make a lot more money and I spoiled my kid a lot and her family

that just used to me just handed over money. What did you do? Above and beyond the child support. What did you do Jack and how much did you make versus how much you make now? I was just a supervisor. I just worked a lot of hours and I didn't really have a good relationship with my kid and I made about 90 grand and now I just I work at the local lumber yard. I just order lumber and I make about 40. I actually have a separate phone call. I'm gonna have to call you on Ken about a different different job, but well

That's why I bring that up. Just to be home more. I think there's two things I get that but I think there's two things and again I'm I'm and John you weigh in on this But Jack I'm gonna talk to you as if I was in your situation And I think that number one I agree with with Doc here that you're sitting out with your daughter and you're explaining reality. And you give her a lot of why. Here's why I've cut back. If you want to go to that, I got a different thought on that one. But you can explain all that. Explain, I don't want to go into debt. Here's why. Explain all of that. Be really honest, into debt. Here's why. Explain all of that. Be really honest, really humble, not defensive, but explain the situation. Whether or not she gets it in the form of

agrees with it or not. Doesn't matter. Does not matter. But I think you got to go one-to-one with the daughter and do your best to, and I don't want to say this the right, I don't want to mean controlling, but the narrative needs to be between you and your daughter That's the first thing I do the second thing I do interesting enough that you said I used to make 90 now make 40 I think for this season You got three more years at this kiddo, right? Yep

I'd be working a little bit more and I would be doing what I could to cash flow and I'll come up with three grand for braces I'll tell you what I could to cash flow. I'll come up with three grand for braces. I'll tell you what I'll commit to. Whatever she earns towards her car, I'll match it. I'll match it. Up to five grand or whatever number. And then now we got girls' skin in the game, moms' skin in the game, your skin in the game. And I think for this season, I'd be pulling some more hours and leveraging my past experience to meet this situation in the middle. No debt, no manipulation and pressure from daughter or ex-wife. However, I can bring more to the table and out of a good gesture I'm going to do that.

I think I would try to do that. John, is that unhealthy? A hundred percent. Here's what gift you're going to give her, a gift that's infinitely more valuable than braces Jack. If you sit down and have this conversation with her and say I know you really want braces I know right now you don't as much have to have them medically as your teeth make you feel less than and you don't smile there's actually some research about smiling in teeth okay. But I'm gonna go take a second job here and I'm gonna bust my butt and I'm gonna knock this out for you.

And here's my expectation, you're gonna have to put some skin in the game, like Ken said, when it comes to grades, it comes to working, whatever. But you showing her that extra hours and that extra work, and I took a second job driving for Amazon when she was at mom's house and you're exhausted and you put that cash on the table,

she will understand the value of a dollar infinitely more than you just throwing money at a problem or just saying no to a problem. So I like that, Ken, but all of this starts with real honest conversations. Jack, you're a good man, and I'm gonna tell you, I think you're a good dad. So believe that, act that way, hold the line.

I'm not doing anything that hurts you financially. This is The Ramsey Show. People tell me about their experiences with big banks all the time. Bad service, fees that nickel and dime them to death, and predatory lending that tries to catch them in never-ending cycles of debt. So if you're ready for a bank that puts people over profits, check out Fairwinds Credit Union. I recommend Fairwinds because they share our Ramsey values of helping people get out of debt and live generously. If you go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey, you'll see the combined checking and savings account bundle they created just for Ramsey, you'll see the combined checking and savings account bundle they created just for Ramsey fans. This account bundle is designed to help you take control of

your finances and stay out of debt. And Fairwinds also has a great mobile app that's safe and secure so you can manage your transactions with peace of mind. Fairwinds has been helping people avoid big bank traps for 75 years. So go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to learn more. It's easy to join, no matter where you live. That's F-A-I-R-W-I-N-D-S dot org the Ramsey Show alongside Dr. John Delaney. I'm Ken Coleman. So excited that you're with us, 828-8255-225. Our Ramsey Network app question is from Darren.

He writes in, my wife and I are 50, debt free, and have a net worth of close to five million. I retired last year and it's allowed me to lean in to many fun hobbies. That said, I feel guilty that I'm not working, even though we don't need the money. I'm embarrassed when people ask what I do for a living. Did I retire too early or should I just ignore societal norms

and enjoy the fruits of a lifetime of hard work? I'm gonna go yes and yes, John. Correct. A little bit controversial maybe. And what I mean by yes is did he retire too early? Yes. Absolutely. And should he ignore societal norms and enjoy the fruits? Yes. Yes. Now I'll explain the first part of that. I'll

get the second half because I like this question. Yeah. I don't think retirement is good for us. No, I'm sorry. Let me go back. I know it's not good for us and that's not my opinion. That is based on all the data. You know about all the data. You and I are both data nerds and the data says it's just not good for us physically, mentally, spiritually, the whole nine yards. If retirement means going home and doing nothing. Which is what he's doing fun hobbies, which is great. I would say that, and this is my goal, and by the way, this is a very unpopular opinion. I was on Graham Steffens show and they asked me about retirement and

I said it's overrated and I'm not going to ever retire. I have no interest personally. I will slow down. Yes. I will diversify but I will be doing something that looks, sounds, smells suspiciously like work until until God takes me home. Yeah. And that's because A, I believe it's what's best for us. Now again, downshifting. So all I would say here is, is Darren, hey man, keep doing the hobbies, but find something. Even if, by the way, here's what's interesting. I would say, John, that volunteerism

is in the category of not retiring. In other words, he may not have to collect a check, but let's say he's going in and he's, let's say he used to run a sawmill, random thing that came to my head. If he just goes in, he starts consulting with a couple young guys that are in the wood business or whatever, and he tells them what he knows,

and he does it one day a week, and- It's about purpose and providing value. That's the idea. That's it. So one can volunteer, and by the way, volunteers work. Exactly. So that's my little spiel and I'll leave it at that. Let you jump in on the second part of that. I just, I 100% agree. I am also one. I've got one of my closest friends in the world is counting down the minutes. Just counting down the minutes. And so I'm with you, when it comes to work, I have a buddy who has a giant ranch

that he messes with, you would say it was a hobby, but he provides a great place when somebody wants to go for a hunt and bring their kid out for the first hunt. He manages this thing so that people have a welcome place to come. He's not retired. He's not retired. He is not retired. I agree. He works really hard.

Yeah, I love that. He doesn't draw a paycheck, right? And so I think I also wanna get done to this societal norm thing. If you at 50 years old are financially independent and you're still quote unquote embarrassed when people ask you what you do, stop, stop. The reason people work their lives,

they become financially independent so that they don't have to care what people think. And so for some reason, you are still attaching your self-worth and your quote unquote feelings to other people's perceptions and opinions of you, stop. Yeah, because you know the irony, Jon? I think most people would love to be where that dude is at. Yes. 50? Yes. I'm 50. That'd be amazing. I think I'm young. Exactly. I know I'm delusional,

but I still go, I mean, now again, I wouldn't stop today. Right. But you'd go to fewer meetings. Yeah, sure. But I'd still come be on the show. Sure, sure. Yeah. That's a good point. Yeah. Neither one of us like meetings. No. But I don't think there is, I think the societal norm is that everybody wants to be where he's at. He's in the one half of 1% of all people who do walk at 50. Right.

Or maybe smaller percentage than that. So what is, what do you think? And again, I'm putting you on the spot, but real quick, we'll get to a call, but I would love to know, 30 seconds, on what do you think is the source of that feeling And again, I'm putting you on the spot, but real quick, we'll get to a call. But I would love to know, 30 seconds, on what do you think is the source of that feeling he gives us in the last sentence? That he thinks people are going,

dude, you're 15, you're not working? Well, I think it goes back to something I heard an AI pontificator talking about, more than a work crisis, more than an economic crisis, we are gonna have a massive, especially in the United States, a massive social unrest when it comes to an identity shift because in the West, our identities are based on

what do you do and how hard do you work at it? If you don't answer those questions appropriately, you are seen as less than culturally. And so we don't have a psychology for, what if a robot just does it, right? And what if the job that you had as an attorney making $700 an hour goes away because a Chad GBT will do it for 35 cents, right?

And so we don't have a psychology for that. So I think it comes down to just breathing our the cultural air, which is, if you don't have an answer to the question, what do you do? My God, what if you could answer that? I love my life. I hang out with my family.

I am currently working on woodworking projects, but I'm also starting a radio building thing and I play in a punk band on the weekends at 50. That should be a great answer. I'm creative. I solve problems for people, et cetera. But anyway, I think I wanna be free from other people's, allowing other people to speak into my value, or quote unquote embarrassment because of how I answer that kind of question.

Yes and amen. And by the way, last one, enjoying the fruits of a lifetime of hard work is not in opposition to doing hard things and showing up at a scheduled time. So enjoying the fruits of a lifetime of hard work doesn't mean you stop doing hard work. I think hard work is good for you. And every single nutritional, physical,

psychological thing would say, keep doing hard things. So maybe you don't do it with a mean boss or something like that or shareholders, but keep doing hard things while you're enjoying the fruits of your labor. Yeah, I love it. Let's see if we can get Will in here in Phoenix, Arizona. Will, how can we help?

Hi guys, thanks for taking my call. You bet, we got about two and a half minutes and I'm sorry to do that to you, but see if you can get us your quick question and see if we can help. All right, hope you guys can hear me. My wife and I are in baby step seven. Our home is worth $400,000, of course, it's paid off. And my question was, I'm 61 and potentially in four years like to possibly retire, not entirely

like you guys are just talking about, but from corporate America anyway. And the home that we sell for $400,000 now, which I'm assuming will go up, and the home we want to buy in the same area is possibly about $100,000 plus in retirement savings and liquid combined and want to know if you guys think it's okay to spend a hundred thousand of the retirement to buy a five hundred thousand house instead of the four hundred we're in now. I wouldn't take the money out of my retirement to do that. I'd work a little bit longer and pay it off quick. You know, you're, and again, you could still

retire from corporate world and I think you can still accomplish what I'm suggesting. Why would you move up in house? Most people retire and then they decide we're gonna, we're gonna sell the big house that we raised a family in. I'll tell you why. We're gonna downshift. Tell him why. I know. Well, believe it or not, I don't want to. My wife doesn't want to go upstairs when she gets older. She's like, he's putting something on herself. It hasn't happened yet. You think she can't get up the stairs of the two stories to go to a one story. I knew it. Well, I feel you dog. I saw it coming like a freight train.

I knew it was the wife. Hey, the house I just bought has one of those rad chair lifts in it. I'm coming over tonight. I'm coming over tonight. Well, fair enough. Fair enough. So if that's going to be the case, John, I really don't want him pulling out of the retirement fund. I want that money staying, Will. And again, you have the income and the experience to, if you got to do a mortgage on a hundred grand that's such a small amount and pay it off quick if you can't convince the one yeah one thing I didn't throw in is that between

now and those four or so years we will probably reinvest another hundred or so between now and then so I wouldn't do that. 850. I wouldn't. Oh, you're talking about investing your retirement account. Well, the whole question is about a house, but the retirement savings, which is 750 will probably be about 850 by that time. I know. But I still, yeah. I, if you were at that million mark or more, I feel a little bit more comfortable about it, but I wouldn't. Yeah. I wouldn't pull a hundred grand out when you only have 750 million mark or more, I'd feel a little bit more comfortable about it, but. I wouldn't. Yeah, I wouldn't pull a hundred grand out when you only have 750.

I'd tell her she's gotta work a little bit longer. Yeah, I wouldn't have that conversation either. I agree. Just a joke, Will. You're on your own, pal. This is the Ramsey Show. Self-defense can be a complicated issue, but there's one solution that makes it a lot easier. A Berna launcher. Berna's look like firearms, but they're not. They're non-lethal self-defense tools. They shoot chemical irritant projectiles that stop

a threat in its tracks without the fatal consequences of a gun. Berna launchers have been vetted by government agencies, police forces, and private security agencies worldwide, and no permits or background checks are required to buy or own one. Plus, Bernas are lightweight, easy to carry, and give you the power to protect yourself and your family, even if you're not comfortable with traditional firearms. Not to mention they have more than 15,000 5-star reviews and right now Ramsey fans can get 10% off an exclusive bundle which includes a burner pistol,

CO2 cartridges and ammo. And other burner products like safety alarms, defense sprays and body armor are also 10% off for our listeners. Just go to Berna.com slash Dave to learn more. That's B-Y-R-N-A dot com slash Dave. Welcome to the Ramsey Show where we help you win with your money, win in your profession and win in your profession, and win in your relationships. Alongside Dr. John Delaney, I'm Ken Coleman. The phone number to jump in today is 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. Let's get it started with Zach in Lexington, Kentucky.

Zach, how can we help today? I'm trying to figure out how to budget my money to get out of debt. Okay. Tell us a little bit more. What's the debt? Card payments, house, and a lot of small debts. A couple credit cards and a student loan. Alright, let's go let's list them out for us. So go smallest to largest, the biggest debt down to the smallest. Start with the biggest debt. $150,000 for my house. Okay, we'll leave the house out right now because we're going to work on that other debt, so keep going.

$12,000 for my truck, $3,000 for my wife's car, about $2,000 on a student loan, and then two different credit cards are $1,700 and $1,600. Okay. And what is your combined income? Do you have two incomes or one? Two. Me and my wife. So what's your combined income?

Roughly $60,000. Okay. All right. What's the truck worth right now? If you were to sell it private sale, not to a dealer, what's the truck worth? Roughly 25. Okay. That's great news. Okay. And how much is the $3,000 car? How much is that worth?

About six. All right. So we got to, that's everything you got, correct? That's everything. Do you have any cash outside of your checking account at all? What kind of cash do you have? None. I just sold a four wheeler to four tires for both of our vehicles because we live paycheck to paycheck. All right, so you guys are struggling just to make it to the end of the month?

Yeah, majorly. All right. So what is specific? what is your question today? Are you struggling with budgeting or is it a bigger issue where you guys aren't on the same page about money? I'd like to see more income, but what do you think is the big cause of this? Is it a lack of budgeting or is it you guys are on two different pages, one's trying, the other's spending like crazy? Give us a little bit more. I think it's a lack of budgeting because I mean we buy our groceries and eat most of our meals at home.

We eat about one meal out a week. You know, it's kind of like a date. It's just we live, you know, our bills take most of our paychecks. We don't really have much income week by week and it's just, I feel suffocated. And I got a baby on the way, due in about three weeks, and I don't know how I'm going to afford child care. All right, let's figure this out. So what is your income, and what do you do, and then tell us your wife's income and what she does? My income is like, I wouldn't say 32 or 35. I don't know exactly. I make about $17 an hour.

What do you do? I am a water plant operator. Okay, great. What does your wife do? She works for the courthouse, and she makes about $15.50. Okay. All right. What is the mortgage? You don't have a very big mortgage, what's your mortgage payment? It's almost $1,200. Okay. Well that's That is a huge chunk of your take home It's a massive shame. We don't even owe that much. I think it's cuz we're so young. Yeah No, that didn't happen. What's your interest rate on that? Do you know it's all interest rate? I

Think it's almost 8% Good that that's the issue. Call my friends at Churchill Mortgage right when you get off this call and see about a refinance in that house. Yeah, I agree. What's your truck payment? It's $330. Okay, I'm gonna start there and the reason I'm gonna start there is because that's a $300 a month raise, which is a massive deal for you. And you've got equity in that.

And I would sell it, if you can sell that for 25, you owe 12, that's gonna leave you 13. I would go buy a $5,000 truck because I can find them all day long online and have done it before. And then I'm gonna to take that $8,000 and I'm going to knock out your wife's car payment. I still got $5,000 left over. I'm taking out the $2,000 student loan. What do I got left? I'm trying to run this in my head.

Then I'm putting the rest of it in a savings account. It's going to be in my emergency fund because I'm about to have a little baby in my house. I agree. But I mean, you... I also got the the two credit cards which is $1,300 for both. No, I got that. Those are gone then. But I think he can get rid of it all. If I did the math right, I think you pay all of your, you pay your entire debt off with the proceeds from the truck. Brother, you're free. That's massive. What is your car payment on the wife's car? 180. Okay, so that's 480 bucks, all right? And we should start going down the list.

Yeah, you just got a $6,000 a year raise if you do this. Massive. 500 bucks a month. Now I'm gonna say one other thing. You, my friend, your wife's pregnant, so I'll let her off the hook, although I'd like to see her pick up some hours, pick up 15 to 20 hours a week at Walmart,

working evenings, while the baby's in the oven. But you definitely need to be picking up another 20 to 30 hours a week to actually get this emergency fund built up because you can be debt free and start stacking into the emergency fund really quickly. But this is all effort. I'm going to sell my truck, pay off all the debt Stick the rest in savings and my wife and I are gonna work like we got no tomorrow in order to stack up five Six seven grand all this is doable my right John all this is doable But hey listen you're on it. You said the baby comes in three weeks. Oh three weeks Yeah, okay, and your wife works hourly, right? So if she is at home for two or three weeks on maternity leave or six weeks

We just took a huge hit. You lose half your income, right? She has paid maternity leave for six weeks. Oh outstanding. Right. High five those people. Listen, listen my man We live in a world Adam, excuse me, Zach that would tell you well you take off time. No, you're not. You know how you can't afford it. You can't afford it, brother. You can't afford to take time off with your wife. You gotta be working. Yeah. Crazy hours. Yeah.

And so you go get a second job, sell everything. If you sell this truck, you are debt-free. $500 a month raise right there. And let's also call Churchill, like you said. Let's call Churchill and get this house, see if we can't get the house refinanced that's number two and number three brother you're on the horn get another job I think yeah with someone who works in a water treatment plan who works as hard as you do on a day-in-day

you should expect to make 50 to 60 grand yeah okay well my biggest my biggest issue is I'm unlasted but I was supposed to be lastened in April, and that should be a little bit of a pay raise. And then I've been picking up odd jobs like crazy and working 16-hour shifts throughout four days away. Good man. But let's go get the best hourly rate we can right now. I don't care what it is.

And let's don't get a certification for a little bitty raise. Yeah, I agree with that. Let's go get a certification or change fields so that in two years you're doubling your salary. I'd like to see you be looking at the trades, Zach. I really would. I want you to get through baby and get a nice emergency fund, but I'd like you to start thinking about the trades.

You know, you're talking about a plumber, electrician, that down the road, if that's something that you're interested in, I don't want to push you into that. but the type of work you do, I think it'd be a nice transition. We're talking about a much better situation when it relates to hourly rate plus benefits plus a nice ladder forward. But listen, Zach, we just gave you, I mean, this is easy compared to calls that we get. Selling that truck changes your life. It also signals to your wife and that new baby, I'm the husband and I'll do anything for my family. By the way, honey, I sold the truck and I picked up a second job for the next six months

so I can get us ahead financially. You guys will be fine. You got a small mortgage. Let's see if we can get you a better rate on that. But just doing what we said to sell on the truck is gonna make the margin there. So get after it, my man. There's no sitting around waiting anymore.

You gotta move. This is the Ramsey Show. Mortgage rates have dropped. So if you're thinking about buying a home in the next year, contact your local Churchill mortgage team right now. If you wait, more people will be in the market competing for the same homes and potentially driving up prices. Churchill will help you do the math to be sure your budget is correct making your home a blessing and helping

you build lasting wealth. Learn more at ChurchillMortgage.com ChurchillMortgage.com This is a paid advertisement in MLS ID 15 1591, NMLS consumeraccess.org, Eagle Housing Lender, 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100, Brentwood, Tennessee, 37027. I still remember 10 years ago, 23 years old, I was frustrated, anxious, and flat broke. I had followed all the ways that toxic money culture

had led me down from well-meaning parents and misguided guidance counselors, and it left me with a pile of debt. But I'm telling you, it doesn't have to stay that way. Over a decade, I went from broke to millionaire, and I break it all down in my new book, Breaking Free from Broke. I'm gonna show you just how toxic this money system is

and how you can break free from credit scores and credit cards and student loans and auto loans and investing traps and finally live a life that you're not exhausted by. A life with more margin, more options and more peace. If you want to check out the book, go to ramsesolutions.com slash store to get your copy of Breaking Free from Broke. That's ramsesolutions.com slash store. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show alongside Dr. John Delaney. I'm Ken Coleman. Glad you are with us today. 888-825-5225 is the phone number we'd love to hear from you. Let's go to Orlando, Florida, where Adam is joining us. Adam, how can we help today? Hello, and thank you for taking my call.

You bet. What's going on? Well, I'm expecting to get married in the next year and a half. And the person I'm expecting to get married to comes from a lot of money. Whoa. And yeah, and as someone that's in school and I'm expecting to have a stable career, I'm a little nervous

because I don't think I can match that lifestyle that she's been exposed to. You can't. You can't. Let it ride, dude. I don't. I mean, her father's an entrepreneur and he makes a lot of money.

And I know that that type of wealth that she comes from is only available for an entrepreneur or businessman or has her own thing going on. And honestly, I'm not too confident that I could match that. You can't! I thought we just covered it. You can't! And John said let it go. How do you think any of the men marrying Dave Ramsey's daughters felt? You don't. And you know what? Both of those men, I know them. They're friends of mine. They're confident. They're smart. And they do good work. They ain't ever gonna have $750 million.

That's right. And his daughters don't love them any less. Is the issue you, which we would understand that, you gotta get over that, but I understand you feeling that, or is it her? Is she putting pressure on you? I mean, What's the reason for this call? What can we help you with? Well, I don't know her too well is the issue. It's sort of an arranged marriage type of situation. Okay, hold up. Now we're digging in. Hold on. So are you actually engaged? Because you

started off the call saying, I'm going to get married in about a year and a half. Is there a ring? Well, there's not a ring, but- Are there animals going back and forth with the arranged marriage? Like 150 goats? Are you with many goats? How's, what are we doing?

What are we doing? Well, she's from Morocco, as you know, I've gotta mention. My cousin married her sister, actually. And this is actually, we went to the wedding and things of that nature and the way it works is she asked her dad and her dad came to me and her dad said are you married and I said no I'm not I'm actually 19 years old I'm not married and we kind of hit it off from there. Who hit it off you and the dad or you and this girl?

Me and the dad I really talked to her. That's what I thought. I thought I heard you say me and pops hit it off and I think I might marry his daughter. I don't know if you know this but she is a key component of this marriage that y'all are setting up. Not really. Not with this deal. Is it really an arranged marriage? Yes sir. Not this. Not this my mom my mom and dad or mainly my mom I actually have seven siblings and my mom trying to get each of us Arranged and I'm the last one and she always wanted to only talked about it all this and when she came in contact with her parents Like done deal They don't like the word arranged we use the word insisted. I don't know if that's more I think that's probably the better word. I think that's what it is. I think that's actually the right word. Let me ask you this. Where are you at on this deal? Do you want to do this? I don't care how cool Pops is or not. Well, I mean she's pretty. She's really pretty. No, no bro. You're not answering

my question and I think I know the answer. Do you want to marry this girl or not? I think I do. No, you don't. No, you don't even know her. You want to please your mom is what you want to do. You want to make your mom happy because she insists that you marry this wealthy Moroccan girl. Well, for me, honestly, I understand that. I've talked to her here

and there, nothing crazy. I'm not marrying somebody that I talk to here and there. That's an acquaintance. What are you doing? Why'd you call us? I believe I will marry this girl. In all honesty, I saw basically sandstone. I didn't know what happened. Okay, in all honesty, why did you call us? It doesn't matter that you called us. Because John and I wanna help you, but we've already told you how we feel.

Yes sir, so. How can we help? Well, I don't know if I mentioned that. Well, I'm set up for stable career later on down the road. And again, I don't know how to, I can't match this lifestyle. I really, I don't know her. But hold on, listen, Adam.

I feel like we're on a hamster wheel. Yeah, none of the things you're saying matter. It doesn't matter that you don't, hold on, it doesn't matter that you don't talk to her regularly, it doesn't matter that you haven't been on dates, it doesn't matter that you haven't kissed her yet, it doesn't matter, none of that been on dates, it doesn't matter that you haven't kissed her yet, it doesn't matter. None of that matters

because you said this thing's arranged. So if it's arranged and you as a grown man in the United States of America are gonna get in that boat and say, all right mom you're gonna direct the rest of my life, then bro it doesn't matter what you make, it doesn't matter any of that stuff because you got in the arranged boat and you took off down down the river What do you care? Let that be if You want to be a grown up and decide I love you I want to create a life with you us two as two

Individual adults creating one not letting my mom and your dad drive our future if you want to do that Then yes, I get there being feelings like man, I didn't make as much money as your dad, you're going to have a different lifestyle. We may have Honda lifestyle when you're used to a Lexus lifestyle. That's all well and good, but that's not your situation right now, dude. So that's the choice you're making, get in the boat, prop your feet up, put your hands behind your head, and then just ride on down the river, down to the ocean, man. Yeah.

Yes, sir. Does that make sense? It makes sense, it makes sense. So you called us saying, guys, I don't know what to do. I don't think I can provide for her. Doesn't matter. She chose you and Pops chose you, it sounds like,

or the two of them got together and said, this is my guy, and you're just gonna go along with it. So therefore it doesn't matter if she's disappointed. It's got to be the greatest get out of jail husband card of all time. Like Adam for what it's absurd. How old are you, man? 19. I tell 19 year olds to get off their parents cell phone plan, much less their marriage arrangement plans. So,

knock your lights out, man. You're an uncharted water for me, so go get them. Yeah, I would tell pops to get you a good job. That's what I would do. What are you worried about? Why are we even going to school? I mean, this guy's wealthy and he selected you. The whole thing is foreign to me, Adam, and we're having a little bit of fun with it

because quite frankly, it's so absurd. I can only laugh with it. And what is absurd is I'm not insulting other, I probably already have, but we'll get over it. The absurdity is your attitude towards it. I'm not gonna judge another culture in arranged marriages. I don't get it, but I'm also- This doesn't feel like a cultural practice.

This feels like an overbearing mom. Yeah, you can say that. What culture you come from? Are you an American family? I was born in America, raised in America, but my father's from Yemen, we're Muslim. They're Moroccan so there's obviously some differences. This is a generational thing for your parents, this is a very normal thing for them to arrange or insist. My parents were in a range. My dad's parents were in a range and their parents are in a range. Yeah, it's what I'm getting at. So I don't understand it, but I'm not knocking the tradition because I don't understand it. I want to be very clear to our large audience on that. What I'm saying absurd is your response to

this because I feel like you got an option to go, Deuces, I'm out or I kind of think I'm gonna do it and yet you called us to go, what do I do? And I just I'm pleading with you and I mean this. I hope you remember my voice multiple times tonight before you go to bed. Please don't do this. John, am I right? You can hear it all over him. Yes. He feels like he has to do it. Yeah, that's the thing, Adam.

If this is a, like the, I've actually looked at the data on the traditional cultural arranged practices, it's remarkable, it's robust, but there's entire family systems around these new married couples and families and all that. So I'm with you, Ken, not knocking it at all. This doesn't sound like that. It sounds like a mom that wants to make sure

her boys marry somebody who's gonna have a lot of wealth. Right? And good on mom. She got you there. Well, she got you, yeah. You though, Adam, aren't in. And if you're not into the cultural practice, if you're not on board with the family practice,

you're not on board with this woman that you are gonna, at some point they close the door and it's just y'all two. This is awful, but I'm going to be real. If I was in Adam's situation and the father approached me and we're hanging out and we're bros and he goes, hey, by the way, my daughter over there, it's my fourth one. Would you like to marry her? She thinks you're cute. I'd go, let's talk terms.

I would be like, can I get an offer sheet? I need to run to the bathroom real quick and I would go to Washington DC and I would never be seen again. That's true. But I mean, if we're going to do all this, let's go. All right, what's the job? Do we got a slush fund? This is wackadoodle.

I don't know how else to process that. Oh, Adam, he needs to fall in love with somebody. Send us a wedding invite. Me and Kit may show up. This is The Randy Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey, everyone. Listen, we all have stories. The family and cultural stories that we were born into, the stories of the things that

have happened to us, both the good stuff and the challenging stuff. And we have those stories that we constantly tell ourselves. And none of us can go back and change any of our old stories, but the world is waiting to see what each of us is going to write next. As we enter 2025, I encourage you to examine your old stories and be intentional about the new stories that you're going to write. And I'm not talking about making goals that are going to be long gone by February. I'm talking about writing new stories that will change your life and the lives of those you love for the

better forever. If you're like me therapy can be a great place to explore the old stories and heal from them and begin writing new ones. If you're thinking about starting therapy I want you to consider my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is a hundred percent online therapy and you can talk with your therapist when it works for your schedule. You just fill out a short online survey to get matched with the licensed therapist and you can switch at any time for no extra cost. So start writing a new story this month with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp,

H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney. It's that time again folks, tax season is here. I know some of That's betterhelp.com. It's that time again folks. Tax season is here. I know some of you would rather bury your head in the sand until April 15th than face your taxes. But here's a better idea. If your tax situation is complicated, get in touch with a Ramsey Trusted Tax Pro today. That way they can take the stress off your shoulders once those tax forms come in and teach you how to keep your tax bill as low as possible. But don't wait, Ramsey Trusted Pros can book up fast. Go to rseySolutions.com slash TaxPro.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you with us. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Delaney joins me and the phone number for you to jump in is triple 8 825 5225. It's triple 8 825, five. Okay, folks, a little bit of a mild roller coaster going on in real estate right now. That's just the reality. A lot of experts are saying we're gonna stay in this interest rate range for most of this year. Who knows?

They don't know, we don't know. But the reality is, is for years we've said marry the home, date the rate. And so whether you're buying a home or selling a home, this is a massive, massive decision in transaction. And it's why you need the tools and resources to get you prepared. And so that's why we have the Ramsey Real Estate Home Base, fabulous location for you.

You're gonna see calculators, start to finish guides, how-tos, a podcast, books, and even a video course, all giving you actionable steps so that you can navigate the buying and selling process without any massive errors, and it's painless. ramsysolutions.com slash real estate, ramsysolutions.com slash real estate, or you can click the link in the show notes if you're listening on YouTube and podcasts. And I want to point out, when we tell you about all these things, and if you miss it, because we know you're listening to YouTube and podcast. And I want to point out when we tell you about all these things and if you miss it because we know you're

listening to us and watching us while you got other things going on, the show notes, the show notes, the show notes, all of the links things we talk about are in the show notes of the podcast app that you're listening to and on YouTube. Alright and ramsaysolutions.com you can usually find it. Alright let's go back to the phones. Vanessa is joining us now in Phoenix, Arizona. Vanessa, how can we help? Hi, thanks for taking my call. You bet. So I just had a quick question.

Me and my husband and my brother-in-law and sister-in-law, when we first got married and started having kids, we bought a piece of land and built two houses on it in the city, which is kind of a unique property. Then we refinanced, we bought a house separately. They bought their house separately. We long-term rent old those two homes. And then we turned them into Airbnb about five years ago. My question is this, I'm wanting to sell my Airbnb and to pay off my house. I live in now and then build an Airbnb on the back of my property. The problem is, is everybody tells me this is going to be the biggest mistake of our

life because I can't buy into real estate like I did 20 years ago. I am going to have to pay capital gains because I already own the land that I'm going to build an Airbnb off of. And obviously you have to pay capital gains if I pay my house off. So I'm just wondering, is selling my rentals to pay off my house and build another residual income a bad idea, or not? No, no, of course not. You know that, don't you? I do, but something about, because people are saying the interest rate that i own i owe uh... to thirty eight on my home and i'm at an interest rate of two point nine nine sure i'll a hundred and sixty six on my rentals at an interest rate of about four point two five

though they're paying you know no no no one was going to go up how do you know you can build an airbnb on the back and my god bless them they don't know as much about real estate as you do, true or false? Well, I don't feel like I know a lot. Alright, never mind. Okay, bad tech. Let's go this. Okay, let's go by the numbers. Can

we do the numbers? Okay. Alright. Yeah. Let's say I want you to give me these numbers. Super simple. You sell both rentals, okay? How much money do you walk with cash? Well, so that's another problem because we, to find a comp in our area with two houses on one piece of land is very difficult. So when we do the numbers in our head, like to pay, you know,

the mortgage off, to pay capital gains, like I think I need at least minimum, I need to walk away, me and my husband personally, with $500,000. Okay, I didn't ask that. And I want you to keep this simple, because I'm trying to help you, but you're confusing me in your answer. You sounded like a congressman on a Sunday morning show there. So, direct question. Stay with me, I'm trying to help you. Okay? Okay. First of all, you need to get a great real estate pro. Okay? It's somebody who can give you real comps. Real numbers.

Real comps. But I want you to be modest, okay? You own two homes. What do you think you walk away with on a modest sale price of both rentals? Give me a modest ballpark figure. You've thought through this, haven't you? Yes.

Okay, then give me the number. I would say 500. All right, you're gonna walk away with 500 and your current home that you live in that you want to pay off is how much? How much do you owe on it? 238. Okay, so you're gonna have 500 minus 238 is what? Uh, 272 left? Yeah. Am I doing my math right? I'm doing it quick. I was a history guy. Polly saw it. So 272. That's after we paid our house off. Now what is it going to cost you to build this property,

this next Airbnb property, on your actual house, now that you have a paid for home, as your main living? What's it going to cost to do that? My husband believes, being being very generous about 200. So if I'm hearing you right, and I'm gonna round down, we got $30,000 cash left over, we have no debt at all on any properties. My home that I'm living in is paid off, and I've got an actual rental property that is going to spit off cash in perpetuity that it's paid for. Yes.

Versus being $238,000 in debt on your main home, and how much in debt on each of the rental homes? Together, they're $166. Okay. So what do you like better? When I just ask you those numbers, what future do you like better? I want my home paid off and to have residual incoming money with that paid off. Great! So I'm going to hand you over to my friend who's really smart with emotions and mental stuff. And John, now that I've just pulled out what she would prefer to do, which interestingly enough, lines up with what we would tell her to do. What about these people in her life that know so much about lumber?

I guess I'm trying to think of the right way to ask this question. He's stumped. No, there he goes. I'm trying to think of the right way to ask this question. He's stumped. No, there he goes. It's this Vanessa. What do you do for a living? So I clean our Airbnbs and manage them. My husband works for UPS.

What is your Ticum salary every year? Combined? Just last year it was about $115,000. $115,000. Yes sir. How somewhere along the way did you get the understanding that that you're dumb? Who told you that? Well not that I'm dumb but account like you have such a great interest rate on your home why would you pay that off? And I'm like, well, because then my husband can work, but he can be basically retired. You have no car payments, you have no credit card.

It's a really smart answer. Now, okay, so somebody is trying to tell you that you're, you're able to see into a future that most people who are obsessed with their stupid spreadsheets and Instagram can't. And that is this, what is life on the other side of not owing anybody anything? Or did I say it another way, what is life on the other side of freedom? And our culture is so stupid and obsessed with short inch by inch gains that they don't look at the long picture, the long game. It's so true, John. You already have.

Right? It's the same reason companies hire a bunch of people to goose the Q1 numbers and then fire them all Q4, not for realizing that at some point people just quit working for you because you're terrible people. But they're so obsessed with the little notch here and the little notch there and the little notch here and the little notch there, the little notch here. So in the same way, you've already projected a future where your husband laughs every morning. So true. Where you have a cup of coffee on those rare cold Phoenix mornings in your paid-off house that

nobody can ever take away from you, and y'all just can go for a walk together. Hey Vanessa and John, do you both remember the classic Miller Lite ads where it was like when we grew up it was like great taste and then the other half of the bar would yell it's less filling and it was a debate. Here's what's going on Vanessa, here's what I'm hearing. You're saying my life is better and they're're going, better interest rate. And it's this goofy, weird, what? My life is better and they're yelling, but you got a better interest rate.

Exactly. It's the goofiest thing I've ever heard. Well, the capital gains doesn't, it's the cap people are like, well, you're just giving capital gains away. But then when I do the math, I'm like, but I'm gonna pay more in interest over the next 25 years to my loan.

Thank you. Vanessa, you're not dumb. Good answer, Vanessa. Ken and I in your seat would both do the exact same thing that you're talking about. And I'll pay the 3% difference on my APR that I'm losing for my new property. I'll pay that difference in a peace tax every day. You got it right, Vanessa. Do your plan, not theirs.

This is the Ramsey Show. Hey guys, I've got a big announcement. George Campbell and I are bringing back Investing Essentials, our two-night virtual event, deep diving into investing and real estate. Learn step by step how to get the most out of your 401k mutual funds and real estate. Learn step-by-step how to get the most out of your 401k mutual funds and real estate investments because there's no better time to get the clarity you need to invest with confidence. Watch live on March 4th and 5th. Get tickets today at ramsysolutions.com

events. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Delaney joins me this hour. We are thrilled to have you with us. 888-825-5225. That's the number to jump in. Today's question of the day is brought to you by Why ReFi?

Now, we don't recommend refinancing on everything, but for Distressed Private Student Loans, there is Why ReFi. We trust Why Rei because they can help you with a low fixed interest rate that you can't get anywhere else to help you stick to your budget and get out of debt learn more at why refi comm slash Ramsey that's the letter why our EF why comm slash Ramsey it may not be available in all states oh I started pre reading this question Ken and it's already giving me gas. All right, today's question comes from Allison in Georgia. Yeah, you're gonna wanna scoot over a few feet here.

My husband and I started building our dream home last year. We took out a HELOC to fund the down payment, God, and start the building process. We struggled financially for the last few months due to low profits at my husband's business. Oh god, and start the building process. We struggled financially for the last few months due to low profits at my husband's business. No way, things weren't going to always just continue to go up and up and up and up forever. So he took out several more loans to help with the cash flow.

These ended up strangling us, so he used most of the HELOC to keep the business afloat along with using personal credit cards to make business purchases. The business now owes us over $300,000. And y'all owe the banks and the credit card companies, I'm assuming. Our house is almost complete, but closing on it is in jeopardy due to all of this debt. How do I come to terms with the fact that my dream house is probably gone? How do I deal with the embarrassment and the shame? And how do I feel safe in my home when everything is falling apart?"

Hmm. A lot of questions for you there, Doc. Well, I mean... A lot of emotional questions. I mean, I would just say on the dream home is I would, if you can get out of it, get out of it. Yeah. And then start to dig out of the situation from the business. Cause this is, there's a lot of stress right now. There's a marriage issues. There's the, by the way, she's putting all this on her husband.

She doesn't say here that either she was complicit in this, like she participated in, well, I guess I'll just put this on or she needs to deal with some serious financial infidelity issues in her home where her husband came and said, by the way, I just lost the house. And there are times where that happens. He basically gambled it away, yeah. I think when it comes to dealing with when dreams are gone or as

when you have to grieve what you wanted to be, man, it just takes time. You got to write some things down. I recommend people go through some sort of, for lack of better words, a funeral, some sort of ceremony that says this was and it's not going to be anymore. Embarrassment and shame, it's just kind of part of it. If you participated in trying to rob Peter to pay Paul and you ended up gambling away all of your losses, gambling away your home, then yeah, there's some embarrassment, there's some shame. I recommend dealing with those head-on. Walk straight into them. When somebody

asks, you say, me and my husband made some dumb business decisions. We ended up having to pick between the business and the home and we chose the business. And you run straight through it and you'll find that the embarrassment and the shame lose their power over you when you say them out loud and you head directly into them. And then how do I feel safe in my home

when everything's falling apart? That sounds like a marriage question, Ken. And that's when you and your husband get away for half of a morning and go to breakfast at a cheap diner and say, we gotta rebuild our ability to trust one another. Forget the business, forget the house, forget all this crap. I agree, and to your point,

the only thing I'd say on that is, if she doesn't feel safe financially, which this circumstance would absolutely do that to anybody, then what you've got to do is you, I'm gonna take shame, whatever shame there is, and it shouldn't be, but I understand that's a natural emotion. Of course there is. But I'm gonna go ahead and take shame over feeling unsafe, meaning I'm gonna get out of these problems, go back away slowly, and I'm gonna go get myself a job, get myself a checking account. I'm gonna do what we need to do so that I feel like that my financial world isn't crumbling

and then once I get there, that's gonna do wonders for dealing with the shame. That's right. That's right. But it's really hard to deal with all that at the same time. That's exactly right. And it's easy for me to say on this side, but it's just a house. So if their marriage is intact and they made some strategic gambles by taking out a HELOC to fund down payments and putting everything on credit cards and we triple stamp a double

stamp and it all came down, everything's not falling apart. But if your husband's lying to you and now you've lost your house and you may have lost your marriage, it can feel like everything's falling apart. You need to get somebody to talk to and say these things out loud. You know what? I want to throw this out there, Jon, I know you're going to agree with it, but it just popped in my head. We need to say that if we are very wise and intentional in who we choose to be our friends,

those are the people you need to go talk to about that. Not need, you have to. Instead of shame, you can enter with shame, but real friends will go, hey, don't worry about that. Not need, you have to. Instead of shame, just you can enter with shame, but real friends will go, hey, don't worry about it. I'll bring the nachos, you bring the beers, we're gonna sit and talk about it. They're not gonna leave you. No. They're gonna actually make you feel good and dare I say safe. Yeah, and they'll weep with you, they'll laugh with you, a good friend will poke at you, and then they'll say, how can we move forward together. I'm gonna tell you and I mean that with everything in my being. Stacey and I have always been intentional but I'm telling you we've got friends like that around

us right now that I'm just telling you. It's everything. You just have to have the people that no matter what's going on you can snot on front of them and cry an ugly cry or be weak or doubtful or insecure or Whatever and they just come around you and they lift you and it is so important So I just saw I heard that I was like, you know what I get the shame feeling but take that shame Take it to real friends and watch shame disappear. That's exactly right. It's really good. All right, let's go to Valerie in San Antonio, Texas. Valerie, how can we help?

Hello, I was just wondering, when I'm looking at baby steps four, five, and six, are you supposed to, you know, max out number four first before you move to five, before you pay more towards the house, or I know you're supposed to do them all together, but I just don't know how much of each. Yeah it's good question. I love a good Ramsey rule follower Valerie. So basically what that means is like once

you get out of baby step three okay and you've got that three to six emergency fund three six months then you begin to take the budget we reorder the budget right and so we take 15% of take-home and we invest that, and that is for retirement. And so you begin to make that happen. Now, you start working the rest of the budget, right? So now we go, okay, we're going to put some, we're going to put what we can away for Baby Step 5, right? And so you may have enough income where you can do all at the same time, but you may not have enough income to be able to do that, and so you may be in four

and five for a while. Does that make sense? Yes, so you suggest putting all 15% before you do five and six, right? Yeah, because it's not about before, it just becomes the thing. It's now, this is the next thing we do. It's like budgeting, right? So once we get through Baby Step 3, the automatic is every time we get a paycheck, we're putting our money away for retirement. So it's just in perpetuity. Does that make sense?

Yes, it does. Thank you so much. Yeah, that's a really good call, actually. You know, because we have a lot of people that join us all the time, John, and so do you want to talk about the momentum behind that and why Dave over the years developed that? So it feels, and there are times where you can do

four, five, and six all at the same time. But that's a function of margin. Right, it's exactly. Or sometimes, like, I was really close to paying off a house. So I paused in, I guess, technically four, five, and six. I paused putting money in retirement because it was like six months away

and I could escalate, I'm just gonna hammer it. But so there is some four, five and six flexibility, but the cornerstone principle is if you got kids, there's gonna be some educational expense at some point that you don't want them to have to choose between no education or debt, right? There is, you are gonna have life after work at some point or life after an ability to go in and be given a paycheck

and you have to prepare for that. So you start saving for retirement. Dave's found 15% over the long haul is a good amount of money that's gonna give you a good lifestyle in the end of it. And then yeah, dude, try to work towards a world where you don't owe anybody anything, including your mortgage, man.

But yeah, I think that the hard part for me, hard part for most people is toggling out of the, ah! Which is baby step one, two, and three, getting out of debt and getting an emergency fund, and then settling into living a life, right? Like what do you want life to look like for you? And I think that's a hard part for everybody. It really is. And we say, we use this phrase a life, right? Like what do you want life to look like for you? And I think that's a hard part for everybody.

It really is. And we say, we use this phrase a lot and it can sound cliche and I don't want it to be cliche today, but we talk about we're moving now out of baby step three and we've been super, super intense. And now we want to downshift, if you will, to intentionality.

And it's easier. So from intensity to intentionality. It's's easier. So from intensity to intentionality. It's always easier to blame Dave for all your decisions. Four, five, and six is where you guys sit down and say, what kind of life do we want to build for ourselves, and what's that gonna look like? You gotta own some of the consequences there. That's right.

Good stuff. Good hour, Dr. John Jelone. We wanna thank James Childs and our amazing crew behind the glass to keep us on the air, and you, America, for listening. This is The Ramsey show The right questions are the key to unlock personal and professional potential. That means if you're not where you want to be, you are not asking the right questions. I'm Ken Coleman and this is what my new show, Front Row Seat, is all about.

Over my career, I've had the distinct privilege to interview successful people from all walks of life and to coach over 10,000 professionals who wanted more. What sets successful people apart is a never-ending desire to learn and grow. Each week, I'll be joined by industry leaders and world-class experts to have a conversation about how to get better, move up up and lead well in work and life.

But the best part of this show is you get to be a part of the conversation. Live in studio, we'll have a group of professionals just like you who have the power to ask questions and steer the discussion in real time. It's an opportunity to get real answers to real questions, like how to make the right decisions, have hard conversations, live a balanced life, and discover your next steps to grow. Join us

every Tuesday for conversations that are guaranteed to surprise, challenge, and inspire you. Check out Front Row Seat wherever you get your podcasts.