The Ramsey Show - Building Wealth Is About More Than Just Math

Episode Date: November 25, 2024

📈 Are you on track with the Baby Steps? Get a Free Personalized Plan 📱Watch the full episode for free in the Ramsey Network app. Dave Ramsey & Jade Warshaw answer your questions and discuss: "My husband's gambling put us in 120k of debt," "Am I obligated to help my adult children?" "Should I invest more or pay off the house?" "I'm angry that my wife wants a larger house," "My girlfriend is considering debt relief" Support Our Sponsors: 🌱 Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp 🏥 Learn more about Christian Healthcare Ministries 🏡 Get started today with Churchill Mortgage 🔒 Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe 🏦 Go to FAIRWINDS Credit Union for an exclusive account bundle! 🥗 Save 15% on your first Field of Greens order with code RAMSEY 💤 Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! 💻 Visit NetSuite today to learn more 🗂️ Use promo code RAMSEY for 18% off at The Nokbox 🏛 Get started with YRefy or call 844-2-RAMSEY 🔐 Visit Zander Insurance for your free instant quote today! Next Steps 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET or click here! 💵 Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app! 🛒 Black Friday deals are here! Get meaningful gifts for as low as $8! 🎟️ See Dave and John LIVE in a city near you! Listen to more from Ramsey Network 🎙️ The Ramsey Show   🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 💰 George Kamel 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 EntreLeadership Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Hey guys, Black Friday week is here with five days of deals starting at just $12. Go to ramsysolutions.com slash store to check them out. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Jade Washoe Ramsey personality personality number one best-selling author is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Marta is with us to start this hour. Marta's in Portland, Oregon. Hi Marta, how are you? Hi Dave, I'm doing okay. Good. Thanks for taking my call. Sure, what's up? So I am 57 years old. I've been married for 33 years and I've never managed our joint financials, but I find myself

that that was a big mistake on my part and I need help with trying to figure out how to sort out my finances. I have a house that's in my name and, um, my husband has, uh, gambling problems that I just discovered and it's been snowballing since I started discovering the problems I signed a HELOC not knowing what I actually was signing. Um, so I owe $90,000 of that and having done taxes for four years. So I know that I, at least I owe $10,000 out of, to the IRS on top of everything else I bought, oh, because he was taking money of my retirement

without my knowledge. And so that's going to come down the pipe for me. And I'm just overwhelmed about how to get things. How'd you find out? I found out a letter because you know, he handled the mail, he handled everything. I opened a letter and it's from fidelity and found out that he had borrowed money from there. And I confronted them about it. And that was last year. And he said, um, he was paying and he did pay it. And I told him not to take any more money. Uh, but he continued to do that. Not only that, but he had taken money prior years and he never told me that he's got 10 counts

because he also stole money from a nonprofit that he was the treasurer of. Are you still together? Unfortunately, yes, because people say I'm too nice. Wow. It's getting a divorce is gonna be very expensive. And so I'm trying nice. Um, it's getting a divorce is going to be very expensive. And so I'm trying to get my finances in order. He's just delusional.

He's in another world. So you're just, you're just biding, are you just biding your time? Is that what that amounts to? You're trying to get your finances together so that you can get out of this marriage or are you guys going to counseling to see if you can solve it? Oh, no, we did counseling. He was not There yeah, I mean I've been begging him to do things and he Okay, so let me make sure I understand where you are then hon. I'm sorry. What a heartbreak

Yeah, you're you don't know you don't know what's going on and that's terrifying and You got 33 year marriage going on and that's terrifying and you got 33 year marriages ending and that's terrifying am I understanding you correctly to say you are saying you're going to end this I am yes I'm done with it okay he's not he thinks well it's not up to him you can in Oregon you can file for divorce you're allowed to do that right yeah so do you work outside the home oh yeah I am a nurse so I so where is the money go that you make well it was going to a joint account I finally okay so it's going into your you change this going into your name now. Yes. Good. How much is in that account? Right now

there's about $11,000. Okay. When you hang up the phone I want you to call a divorce attorney and schedule an appointment for tomorrow. Mm-hmm. Please. You keep you keep thinking you're gonna wake up and this is all a bad dream and I'm your old ugly brother that's telling you it's not. It's your reality and it's unbelievably sad. It's unbelievably scary but it's going to get worse every moment that you don't deal with this. You do not have to do anything except pay a retainer,

get a lawyer and file for divorce. Right now. Okay. I did see one and at the time I didn't even have the money for the retainer. Now you do? Yeah. Okay. Is that the one you're going to use? I don't know yet. I only saw one and he told me he's been invited and he wants... I don't care what he thinks. He no longer has a vote. Yeah. He gave that up when he

stole money from a non-profit, when he stole money from his wife, when he had her sign documents that she didn't know what she was signing. This is a full raging lunatic addict who has no boundaries and it's going to, he's going to burn the house down around you. If you stand there and watch it and ignore the smoke, please darling, for your sake, while there's still something left, get, get an attorney and get him around the throat and shut down all of the financials.

Shut down everything. So he has no concept of anything. Move it all out from under his care until his attorney and the court makes you put it back. It's time for you to get very aggressive to try to salvage what you can for the next chapter of your life on. Marta, who knows about this? Are you going through this alone or do you have some folks around you? Oh no, I mean every day I have friends I'm going to counseling. My kids know, but I mean he took

what $60,000 from my son who who's married has two babies saying he was gonna pay it back he had a business that went bankrupt and I'm just kind of yeah this has been done a long time and you've ignored it thinking it was going to get better hon because you're a sweet person but listen you're killing yourself here okay please please deal with this okay now this is your big brother that loves you talking okay do it now okay quit screwing around with this it's not gonna if he suddenly gets healed gets lightning bolt struck from heaven and changes we can always come back and talk about that later but right now everything you have told me in the last few minutes screams emergency yeah well he thinks he's doing better but honey I

don't care what he thinks he lost his vote and there's no proof of that every time you tell me something about him it's where he stole something or took something. That's the entire description of your husband. He's a raging, gambling addict. And there's no fix for that. We work with addicts all the time. The only fix for that is to break the cycle. And this guy is not interested in breaking the cycle.

Addicts can get better better but 100% of addicts are master manipulators and they are master liars. He'll make you think this is your fault. Oh yeah, he does make me think that. That's part of the addiction, okay? There's only one thing you can do with this and that's get distance. Financial distance, physical distance, housing distance. Call that attorney back or call an attorney today and please darling take action on this.

It's not going to get better. This guy's an abuser. Wow, I'm so sorry. What a heartbreaking thing to deal with. Fastest growing addiction in North America today online porn second fastest growing addiction Gambling we're seeing in our financial counseling offices those two things destroying more families than anything else

Thank you to the internet. This is the Ramsey shot What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get ten different answers. Economic growth or a recession? Business taxes will go up or down. AI will help us work or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball. That's why more than 40,000 businesses have future-proofed themselves with NetSuite by

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Own Your Past, Change Your Future are all only twelve dollars each. And of course The Total Money Makeover is more than a book. All these books are. They're a life changing gift. We hear it all the time. Millions of people have changed their lives because of a Dr. John Deloney book or a total money makeover book or a Jade Wachow book like Money's Not a Math Problem. You know Jade and her husband paid off over $460,000 in debt.

A lot of it had to do with shifting their mindset about money money's not a math problem is what that's about it's one of our quick reads Rachel's wallets John's questions for human cards man it's all there check it all out Black Friday deals abound at Ramsey solutions.com slash store if you're listening on YouTube with a podcast you can click the link in the description and go straight there. Paula's in Canada. Hi Paula, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Thank you very much. Sure, what's up? I have a question about

adult children and financially helping them out what my obligation is because I hear lots of people trying to help out with weddings and education and that sort of thing. I'm at a point in my life now where financially I can do it, but am I obliged to do it when they've shown that they aren't financially responsible themselves? And how do I make it fair when there's five of them. What is it, who would oblige, you mean morally or spiritually obliged or culturally obliged? I mean who obliges you? Well you know when they're at a point where you're having babies and getting married

you don't just spend all... I know what you're talking about. I'm asking, you said am I forced, obliged is a sweet way. Am I required is what you're saying. Who requires it? I guess I feel that they require it when it comes to fairness. That would be called entitlement. That would not be called, yeah. Matter of fact, Paula, I have a new requirement. You need to send me some money. Here's my address. Who gives a crap what someone else requires, right? Who is it that wants it and what do they want?

Well, I don't know if they want it as far as trying to treat them fairly. You know, when there's five of them and one sees that I've spent money on one or the other trying to help them out or spending money on weddings or the other trying to help them out or or spending money on weddings or having babies and then the other ones think well why isn't she giving me money or why isn't she buying me gifts you know and I'm at a point in my life where I can do it but I also want to be able to travel and enjoy my retirement and that kind of thing when I don't know how to make it fair between the five of them. So I do think that that's an thing when I don't know how to make it fair between the five of them.

So I do think that that's an interesting question. I've got two kids and it would be strange of me if both were good kids, if I paid for one wedding but didn't pay for the other. I could see why they would say, well, what's the difference? You've got five kids. That's a lot more. Is there something going on that's making you say for child number one, I'll do this, but for child number two, I won't.

And here's why. Is it a, is it a behavior thing? Is it a? I think so because my, one of my children just had a baby and another one is, is in, is having a baby again soon. And I've spent all sorts of money on one wedding, but not the other. Um, and why, and we're saying why not the other? right and one of my children is financially being irresponsible and I do want to help them but in the other sense like Can I help them with stipulations? Like I don't want to give you cash because you're gonna waste it back to change question because I'm not sure I heard the answer If you paid for one wedding, but you didn't pay for the other why? You decided that why did what was the one that you didn't pay for the other, why? You decided that, why did you,

was the one that you didn't pay for being irresponsible and so you didn't want to fund it, what was the reason for the differences? I think it was more of some of them have had the big splashy weddings and then others of them haven't chosen to have the big splashy wedding. So do I. So they wanted the money instead. Yes, exactly. Okay, all right. And you just, you felt like paying for the wedding

was okay, but you didn't want to necessarily be to fund everybody the same amount. Or how do you make it equal? You know, if I'm spending $5,000 on one wedding, do I? Well, if it's your money, I think you get to set the premise if you say, okay, for each of you, this is the budget and that's what it is

and you make it fair. I mean, my point is they don't get to decide what you give, you get to decide it. Okay. Yeah. But if you've already gone down the road. Yeah, I'm kind of stretched between two different things in this and I don't know exactly where to land. I mean we told our kids growing up there is no fair. Fair is where the

tilt of the world is and the cotton candy is. We're not socialists, we're capitalists. There's not fair. Okay. So that's how it works. Things don't work out, that's just the way it is. And I don't get to decide all of the what life treats you fair or doesn't treat you fair, but fair is a joke. Fair is only by communist college professors. There's no fair, okay? Welcome to the real world. Now that's what we talk, that's on one sense I don't have to do it equal because our family's not socialists. On the other sense I don't want to scar one of them and make them think there is a, unless I'm refusing to fund their misbehavior, I mean if one of

them has a splashy wedding and one of them doesn't and the one that doesn't is doing heroin, I don't want to give them, I don't need to give them the same amount of money. Well that's not fair. I don't care. That's not, I'm not going to fund misbehavior. But on the other hand, if there's no differences in their behaviors, it feels a little weird that they're not getting the same amount of money. So no, you're not obligated, but I'm just thinking through with you the emotional and the relational parts of the discussion. You are not obliged. Period. It's's your money you get to decide. I don't get to tell you what to do with it They don't get to tell you what to do with it You can just look at someone and say no and no is a complete sentence

But from a relational standpoint if there's not a reason for differentiating That would give me as a dad concern I can see how that would cause you a problem if there's a reason like a misbehavior for differentiating That would give me as a dad Concern I can see how that would cause you a problem if there's a reason like a misbehavior for differentiating I can lean into that real easily and I do think it's fair to say let's say you have $10,000 to put towards a wedding. I think it's fair to say I have $10,000 for your wedding But if one of them says I don't want the wedding. I just want the $10,000 I think it's fair to say no the $10,000 is for the wedding right I mean Well in this case especially since you're saying some of them are misbehaving with money you giving them $10,000 is them saying well

I'm gonna do whatever I want with this money And if to your point if they're doing misbehavior things then that's not the gift you wanted it to be. No, it magnifies their stupidity when you give them money. So it does for all of us. Anybody that gets money, it magnifies who you are good and bad. And so when you put some zeros on the end of that, you're doing that. So I don't know.

I think one of the things we've learned to do in the Ramsey household and it's helped, cause I'm convinced, my wife and I were talking about this the other day, and it's not because my kids are bad, they're excellent kids but I think adult children is a weird phrase to start with. That's like an oxymoronic phrase to start with but raising adult children is the hardest phase of parenting.

It was much easier when they were under my control and I could just tell them what to freaking do. It was a lot easier. Now they have these ideas of their own and stuff. I taught them to think and damned if they didn't. You know, oh my god it's so hard. So, you know, and so it's a difficult time and emotionally in that state for a lot of parents, Paula, but I think if you're going to differentiate for a reason, one of the things we've done a really good job about is we just communicate.

We just say there's a difference here and here's why. And you know what, that lets all the air out of it. And you say it in front of the whole family, right? You can put everybody in a room and go, this is what we're doing, it's Thanksgiving, by the way, and here's what we're doing. And it clears the air. Yeah. You know, I remember Rachel had her first big book coming out,

and we know what personalities make on a big book. And so we were at Thanksgiving and I said, hey, everybody, we're gonna stop just a second here. And y'all are all, they're all in their 20s. And I'm like, um, Rachel's getting ready to have a great year from some hard work she's done and some of your years aren't going to be as great because you haven't done that same exact work and you get the decision right now to decide whether to be jealous and petty or whether to congratulate your sister and cheer her on. To their credit, once you said it out loud, they immediately became cheerleaders.

But it took the air out of the balloon of jealousy once you say it out loud. And so it's harder to do it once somebody said it out loud. This is The Ramsey Show. I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable. Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible, people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly, and they don't have life insurance. When you have to think through how am I going to pay

my bills in the middle of all that grief, it's just terrible. So life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm so big on for that grief. Like it's just, it is, it's terrible. So life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And it doesn't cost much because Xander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here.

You got to say it out loud and you got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza. To get a free quote call 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282 or go to zander.com. Jade Warshall, number one bestselling author and Ramsay personality is my co-host. It's that time of year in a few weeks we're going to be doing a special giving generosity edition of the Ramsay Show. It's one of my favorite shows because we want to teach you to live like no one else so that later you can

give like no one else. So here's the deal. Maybe you've been the person that was generous and you got to see someone's face and life changed. Maybe you were on the receiving end of the generosity and you want to tell that story. Whether you know the person that gave or whether it was an anonymous gift, we don't care. We want to encourage generosity by telling great generosity stories. So jump on to ramsysolutions.com slash ask. Put giving in the subject line. That's how you get on the radio show if you want to leave a message there. And you put giving on the subject line. We'll get you on the podcast, the YouTube show when we're doing the giving show. We do this every Christmas time. It's one of our most popular shows. People love it because

it reminds us how wonderful human beings can be out there and often are. It's coming up on December 18th so send us your giving story starting today so you can live like no one else so so you can live like no one else so later you can give like no one else. Ramsesolutions.com slash ask put giving in the subject line. Hannah is in Columbia, South Carolina. Hi Hannah, what's up? Hi Dave, hi Jade.

I'm so excited to talk to you guys. You too, how can we help? Okay, my question is I have been listening to you guys for about two or three months and I'm really gung-ho. My husband and I are almost the baby steps four, five, and six and I know you guys say to be intentional in those and do them together. So when you're in those steps, why should my husband and I not put extra money into an investment that has a 12% return instead of paying off our house that has an interest rate of 2.5? It's a great math question and the reason is more than math. So we studied 10,167 millionaires,

okay, and asked them how did you become a millionaire? Did you inherit the money? Did you win the lotto? Are you a country music star? Did you save and invest? How did you do it? What did you do? What's your age? What's your income? What's your career? So we could find some correlations. And 10,000 people is enough to study to draw some real airtight research-based conclusions. And we got a lot of wonderful data from that, in other words, facts. Here's what's interesting. The number of those millionaires that said, I became a millionaire because I borrowed on my home at a lesser interest rate so that I could invest more, which is effectively

what you're talking about doing. You're not borrowing on it, but you're not paying it off Which is the same thing okay? The number of them that said I delayed paying off my home so that I can invest more and that's how I became a millionaire You know how many of them it was out of 10,000? Not very many zero We never had one tell us that That that's how they became a millionaire was that

they leveraged their home into investments. Isn't that interesting? And yet the math that you bring up is actually accurate. I mean, there's, you know, you can borrow money or you might have a mortgage at 3% and you can make 10, 12, maybe 14% in the last 12 months, you can make 30% on an S&P, which is not normal. But you're 12 percent. I don't argue with it all. The difference is that you're going to be paying taxes on the money unless you're investing it into a Roth. And you've also taken more risk because you're home. So something happens to people when they get their home paid off, the freedom that they

sense in their relationships and their careers causes them to prosper more and faster than the difference in the interest rates. And so that's the only explanation I've got for it and I will tell you this here's an interesting thing you can do go ahead and pay off your house and if you hate it just go get another mortgage that's where I am I really want to do that but I'm also married to an accountant who's like he knows the math and well here's the problem let me submit to him that he's doing a naive primitive incomplete math formula because his math formula does not include risk and his math formula

does not include taxes and if he can quantify the risk exactly and put it into a math formula he's better guy than I and put it into a math formula, he's a better guy than I am and I'm a math nerd from now on. But it is a real risk because we can all honestly say the more debt you have, the more risk you have, agreed? Yes. And to not mathematically factor that into his formula makes his formula naive and incomplete. So I don't care if he's an accountant, he's wrong. Right. That's the thing. I mean now how do you convince him of that? I don't know.

That's a different story. You've been convincing him is wrong since she's wrong since you got married so maybe you can work on it. Yeah my biggest question for him would be what is what is his ultimate goal and why are you guys doing this? His ultimate goal is build wealth and he thinks he's leveraging the money, right? Am I right? Yes, yes you are right. But I guess my question is, is it a, let's say he says my goal is to have eight million dollars, right?

Is it a time frame? Is it a time frame he's so caught up on or is there a way that you can present that argument and say, hey, we can still get there there we're just going there in this order and this is gonna give me more peace you see what I'm saying yeah and I I um he was trained by the same people I was trained by my finance professor was broke what's wrong with that picture a broke finance is like a shop teacher with missing fingers. My grandpa was not broke and he was also an accountant. The reason he was not broke though is he avoided debt like the plague because he was a child of the Great Depression and he had no debt, no debt, no debt, no debt, no way,

no debt. When I started going in debt like a crazy man to buy houses in my 20s he said I'm going to throw you a crazy man to buy houses in my 20s, he said, I'm going to throw you out of the family. You couldn't be one of ours. You're too dumb. He didn't say that, but he made me feel that. There you go. But yeah, I mean, because it's the polar opposite of what that generation that had common sense lived. So the problem, Hannah, is your husband was trained by a broke finance professor to believe an incomplete, inaccurate math formula.

And you can play this back for him. But, and Jayden you know it's an interesting conversation cause we get this question like once a week right? And when I first started this journey, this journey being common sense money, I've got a finance degree, I've got letters and licenses of all kinds after my name that says I'm supposed to know something about money, but I'm 28 years old and I'm bankrupt because I borrowed too much money and I'm an idiot.

And I got the opportunity to start over. My wife would have left but she didn't have a car. I mean it was awful, horrible, and I was a brand new Christian and so I started learning from this guy named Larry Burkett that the Bible had financial principles and I read in there the borrower is slave to the lender and then I read in there he who is impulsive exalts folly and then I read in there the blessings and cursings to the house of Israel as they cross the Jordan

after Moses has led them in the wilderness. The blessings are you will be so wealthy you will be a lender, the cursings are you will be a borrower. Every single thing in scripture that I was reading as a brand new believer was negative about debt and yet my intellect and academics all told me that to borrow money like her husband the accountant. And I struggled with exactly the same thing but I made the decision in those days on the basis of faith. I just said okay I tried it I tried it the academic way I went broke and I'm gonna try this Bible stuff and it's common sense. Now years

later I discover oh they left out risk. They left, math formula's incomplete. These academics aren't so dadgum smart after all. Who knew? This is the Ramsey Show. Hey you guys, I'm not a fan of the big banks and you probably already know which ones I mean. But I do like credit

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partners with more than five thousand credit union locations around the country so you can bank in person wherever you live. But if you prefer the online experience you can log on to FairWins and do anything you could do at a physical location. So go to fairws.org slash Ramsey to learn more and while you're there look at the combined checking and savings account bundle they created just for Ramsey fans to help you take control of your finances. That's fairwinds, fair wins f-a-i-r-w-i-n-d-s dot org slash ramsey jade wash all ramsey personality is my cohost today i'm dave ramsey your host ramsey show question of the day is brought to you by why refi

if you've made student loan mistakes with zeros on the end well we're not judging you we're here to help you and we're saying you need to do something about it. Contact YREFI if you have a defaulted private student loan. They'll reset the whole thing. It's unbelievable what they can do for you. So go to YREFI. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. Might not be in all states. All right, today's question comes from Brody in Maryland. He says, is it unfair for me to feel angry

that my wife wants a bigger house? We bought a 1,400 square foot house last April. I sold all four of my investment properties that I worked very hard for to completely pay off our debt, including the new house. Our house is a three bedroom, two bath ranch with a backyard on a quiet street and it's in a good school district.

So much sacrifice and saving went into making this happen. Now she wants a bigger house, even though she said she wanted this particular house before we put the offer in. I don't see how I can make this happen without going into debt again, and I will not go back into debt. Oh, this is juicy. I listen, here's the thing. I do think that some people's personalities because

you don't talk about any type of pay raise or situation where you guys's lifestyle has changed drastically. But I do think there's some people that the goalpost is constantly moving, right? It's like, if I just get this, I'll be happy. And then they get that thing and they're not happy. Or if I just get this, I'll be content. And then it happens and they're not content because things don't make you happy

and things don't make you content. I think that they're fun, but they don't fill that void. And truthfully- Yeah, you can buy fun, but you can't buy happiness. Yeah, and you can't buy contentment. And if you're on social media, which she might be every single day scrolling through and looking at what the influencers are doing

and looking at what their friends, their friends houses or she's spending all night watching HGTV, it is very difficult for some people to kind of go, well, that's them and that's okay, my life is fine. And truly, I think that that's what this is. I think she's got a contentment issue. Exactly. Sidebar, what you you stated there I just saw an article

the other day that um the more hours you spend on social media the typical the court that there's a direct correlation to the more credit card debt you have oh really I'd love to see that I know there is and the more overspending you do because you know I I do it and I have the money but I'm like looking at some gun thing and I'm like, oh I need one of those. But if I had stayed off of that, I wouldn't have known it was there. And you know, but so I know other people do it and I teach this crap. So you know, I mean, it's like, golly, if I'm doing it, it's got to be.

So okay. Yeah. Here's what happened Brody You guys need to reset your marriage relationship This is not about a 1400 square foot house, and it's not about you being angry You are acting like the daddy and she's acting like daddy's little princess. You know daddy sold everything and did everything and sacrificed and worked his fingers to the bone and what did he get? Bony fingers and he got a house and he's real proud of the house

and now she walks in and goes yeah but there's the wallpaper. Yeah. And so we need to reset this and instead let's be two like grownups. So the conversation I'm going to have is, and actually we had it at our house, but in a little different way when we were about your age, probably. Um, I'll tell you about hours and a second, but the conversation I'm going to have is, okay, we are going to get aligned on our goals. going to get aligned on our goals. My goal is not to perpetually make an unhappy person happy. I am not going to get on that treadmill. We, you're a grown woman, I'm a grown man,

we're going to sit down together and here's one of mine, okay, I don't borrow money, period. Here's another one of mine. I like to provide nice things for my wife. Here's another one of mine. These are what you might say, Brody, okay, and she's saying, well, I want a house as nice as my friends. Okay, what can we do to get that? You don't work, you could work, you don't work much, you could work more, you could quit coach bagging it and we might save that money towards a house. I mean what are we going to do as two grown up people to responsibly because I'm all in I put all my chips in the table I sold off everything I had to buy this house for us and what you did though was you did that without her she was not aligned to that she was giving

you lip service but this was not her idea it was yours yeah and now you now you're surprised that she's unhappy of your plan that did not her include her so this is like i gotta tell you know what i about 10 years i've been married 43 years about 10 years into marriage i don't buy sharon jewelry anymore that she hasn't seen. Tell us why. Because I picked out ugly crap. I know. According to her. But I spent a lot of my beautiful money on her ugly crap and then she didn't she's like, oh well I wouldn't about that. And I'm like, oh geez, well let's just not do that again. So I don't mind if Sharon has I mean she's got earrings the size of a headlight But she picked them out. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And then she says they're heavy

They're that big. Okay, and I'm like this ridiculous. I'm like, okay Just get your little ear lobes and do some earlobe lifts Start doing some workouts there in the gym because you picked them out. So see that's the difference. This girl's not involved in this. Well yeah you can tell by the the language I sold all of my investment properties. So much sacrifice. Yeah he's the only one. He feels like he's the only one sacrificing. You can tell by the language whether. But it's a paternal thing rather than an equal thing. Yeah yeah you can hear it. I think we got a reset and go we're not doing anywhere from here. We're not making any major

decisions without both of us involved and I learned that after I went broke because I made a lot of decisions that were stupid without talking to my wife. Proverbs 31 says who can find a virtuous wife for her worth is far above Ruby's? The heart of her husband safely trusts her. And here's my favorite part. He will have no lack of gain. And it's not in the Bible, but it might be in one version like second hesitations. Yeah. Right after no lack of gain, she no longer says, I told you so. Oh, I kind of like she can't say that anymore. I like being able to say that though. I know, but you can't say that when you're in on the decision.

All you can say is we together made a dumb butt decision. That's all you can say from this point forward. And that's it. You can't say you're an idiot. You can't do that anymore because now you have to use plural. Let's change your pronouns. We are idiots.

We did this, right? And so that's what's going on here dude you've got to reset this idea you have put your little Superman cape up of you're the Popeye and you're the provider and all this stuff and she's just a little woman and you're gonna you're never gonna make scarlet o'hara happy it's not gonna happen so she's

gonna get on the same page and be like a grown woman and stuff and then she'll become happy. It's not gonna happen. So she's gonna get on the same page and be like a grown woman and stuff and then she'll become happy. It's a weird balance of power. It's a big deal man. It's a big deal. This alignment in marriage is one of the things we find all the time in people's ability to get out of debt. People's they succeed in their careers at a greater rate. They, and their ability to build wealth because they're aligned on sacrificing and they make decisions together. The first time we did that after going broke

was we finally saved up a little bit of money and I had $10,000, Sharon was driving a blue, three-tone Astro van, you remember those? Oh, 100%. Completely ugly. The carpet was covered in toddler goldfish from the third kid and it was nasty this was a bad car it was an embarrassing vehicle when they first came out they were all right well

this was not first come out and she's like I need and I need a better car we need to move up to a suburban and I was gonna I10,000 or $15,000 saved at the company. I was getting ready to do this investment, we were going to buy this thing, and I was going to make $100,000 with this $15,000 down here. And she's like, we need to do a car. And you know what? We did both, but we did the car first. And then we did the company.

And it turns out now, all these years later it was okay but in the moment aligning on that with two grown-ups was a big deal, a big deal. This is the Ramsey Show. Do you ever feel like you're finally making progress towards your goals only to get quickly distracted by something else in your feed? Well that's why we created the Ramsey Network app, your single source for content that keeps you motivated. The Ramsey Network app is designed to keep you laser focused on reaching your goals. Loaded with over $7,000 of Ramsey shows, this free app is the best place for uninterrupted content and no

distractions. Plus, you can search specific questions to get more personalized content in seconds. So for the days you need some extra motivation, you'll have proven advice at your fingertips. It's time to get serious about your goals and shut out the distractions for good. It's time to get serious about your goals and shut out the distractions for good Simply search Ramsey Network in the App Store or Google Play if you're listening on a podcast Just click the link in the show notes to download our free Ramsey Network app today Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth Do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Jade Waschall, Ramsey personality number one, bestselling author of the book Money's Not

a Math Problem. She's my co-host today. Open phones here at 888-825-5225. Scott's in Las Vegas. Hey Scott, what's up? Hi, how are you Dave? Longtime listener. I really appreciate you guys taking my call. Sure. I came across the question today for investing purposes on my Roth 401k. My

co-workers and I were looking for next year and looking at setting things up and the question came up about if I were to put let's say 15% of my income and I hit the IRS cap, let's say October or November, will that negatively affect how my company match for the remainder of the year when I'm not actually getting any money? I don't know if it's a number that's going to be a fixed number regardless. Will the company 6% match be the same if I hit it in October or if I were to spread it out over smaller increments throughout the 26 paychecks?

That's a question for your company, your HR team. That's not a regulation. It's not a regulation. I didn't know if it was a way to be able to calculate that, to be able to. It's not a regulation. Because I didn't know if it was a way to be able to calculate that, to be able to look at even previous, because a couple years I had made, I'd hit that number in October, and then the last two years, let me have a little bit more money in my pocket

throughout the course, and I spread it out with a little bit lower number, and let it hit the last paycheck in December. And I didn't know if that was gonna be from the negative impact if I were to just. I think you could look at the total for that year total invested by you and then the total match and divide it and tell what the percentage was right right sure exactly and that would tell you what I would tell you what you're coming yeah I mean some companies match up to a certain

amount some companies match all the way through. We match a percentage regardless of what you put in, regardless of when you put it in. And so, I mean, I've got some high income earners that fully fund theirs in the first quarter. And then they just don't, they don't have that, because they can't, they max it out completely they are not allowed to put any more than that in and so not by us but by regulation and then we match that as they do it whenever they do it whatever they do same but that's a company decision as to how the match is done and if you have to drag it out to get the full match i would drag it out make sense if you need to reach out to them and find out how they distribute that money. Yeah if you need to do 12 even months to get the full match then do the 12 even months

because the match is more valuable than the early portion of the investing. But that brings up another interesting thing Jay that sometimes people ask is should I you know should I spread my personal Roth over 12 months or just do it in January you know you should do it in January is what is the answer mathematically because the entire amount is earning throughout the entire year rather than a portion of it earning each month more that's right and so well what if the market went down well if the market goes down none of this works so it only works when it's going up and overall we know it's going to go up. It could go up or down in the short term. But yeah, so Scott that's an HR and payroll and whoever's managing

your 401k at your company question. And you could get a hint before you even call them by looking at the percentage they gave or the dollars they gave last year as a percentage of what you put in last year and see if that matches their standard match rate. And that would tell you, you know, if you're looking like 6%, then you go, okay, you know, I put in $10,000 irregularly, but they still put in, you know, 6% of that 600 bucks. And so, you know, or whatever the number is, but that's, you can still look at that and figure that out. So, very cool, very cool, good stuff, man.

That's a great question, by the way. And here's the neat thing about all this. People like him, it's not the answer to this technical question that matters. What matters is he's actually thinking about it. I was gonna say that, you know. Most people don't think about it. Yeah, they don't think about it.

So the fact that he's maxing it out, the fact that he's thinking through that is really, really great. Yeah. Really good. The intentionality. You know, one of the things, I've got a friend that, his dad was the governor of Tennessee in the 1950s.

Okay. And so he's in his 70s now. But he was a little kid in short pants in the governor's mansion in the 1950s. And I had a great discussion with him one night. He said, the discussion in our family table growing up was politics. And he said, you know what rich people talk about

at the family table? Generosity and investing and value purchases. Not cheapo purchases. All the important things you can do with money. Long-term decision. And so a rich kid grows up with a silver spoon because their parents got rich because they were concentrating on money, not obsessed by it, not worshiping it. Like my friend's family didn't worship politics, they weren't obsessed by it,

but they were in that world, it's what they did. And it made me realize that's how, you know, if you grow up, I've got a cousin who's a car dealer, and guess what, he owns a bunch of cars I wonder why yeah I think you end up talking about the things that are of value to you in your life whether it's your religious beliefs your moral beliefs yeah hobbies whatever that is that's what you talk about that's what you pass down and so you need to be different you need to be thoughtful

about that but that's the same thing of Scott being intentional. What's him and his friends sitting around the lunch table talking about? Not other people's careers carrying a football. Well, let me tell you. Talking about their careers and how they're gonna bill well. I think that's one of the,

I mean, we kind of talked about this early, but if you're on social media and you know more about P Diddy and you know more about other celebrities' finances and you know more about other celebrities finances and you know more about what you know so and so is driving and you don't even know about your own stuff. You don't know the state of your own affairs. You don't care that much about your own financial situation about your own relationships. That's a red flag. It's backwards. It really is more into pop culture than your own culture. I was at a Titans football game one time, a long, long time ago.

And the seats were not great. And the guy in front of us was a large man. Spacious. Without a shirt. And had painted his big self blue with a big Titan thing on his chest, and he yelled and screamed like the world was coming to an end. On every play he cussed the coach. You didn't like that? And on every play he cussed the players. And I told my wife, I said if he was as enthusiastic about his

career or his marriage as he is about watching these young kids down here playing football, he would probably have a good life. Wrong dose. You know? Yeah. You got to channel it to the right cause. I mean, I'm sorry. I get it if you're in college and you and your buddies all have too many beers and paint letters on your chest and take your clothes off or whatever.

I get that. Take your shirts off anyway. I get that. I don't get 56 years old. Ooo! Yeah, and obese. I don't get that one, okay? It's just gross, alright? I'm just saying it. Just saying it for all the rest of us out there. Ugh, this is the Ramsey Show. Hey guys, George Camel here for Delete Me. I saw a headline the other day that made me squirm. One third of the US population's background info is now public.

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So it's time to take control of your online privacy. Their individual Delete Me plans start as low as nine bucks a month, and you can get 20% off if you go to joindelete.com Slash Ramsey, that's joined delete me comm slash Ramsey. Hey guys, George camel here And it's that time of year again The store shelves are packed with little Debbie's Christmas trees matching pajamas for you and your dog You know who you are and giant inflatable Santas for the yard. I'm not mad about that and speaking of inflation Americans are about to spend close to a trillion dollars this Christmas. And get this, one-third of that spending will be swiped on credit cards. Yikes. Now I get it, you want the holidays to feel magical and you

want to have a good time. But trust me, there is nothing magical about staring down a mountain of credit card debt come January. So here's the deal. If you don't want January you to hate December you, I've got a money hack for you. Download the EveryDollar app. It's free to get started, and you could find an extra $400 of margin in your first month of using it. See, with EveryDollar,

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Sydney is in Cincinnati, Ohio. Hi Sydney, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi. Hi. Thanks for taking my call. Sure, what's up? So I'm kind of new to the Dave Ramsey universe, but I am currently like working through steps currently on step three. Cool. And earlier this year, I got President Biden's student loan forgiveness and a refund check with that. So I am completely consumer debt free outside of my mortgage. Okay, stop just a second.

Stop just a second because President Biden has issued several press releases, but the all of the debt forgiveness was all programs that were already in existence. He took credit for them, but they were already there. Aside from that, what was the forgiveness that you got? What type? What was the situation? Just my student loans. My school was deemed predatory or whatever. That's been in place for 20 years. Schools that are predatory and go broke, the student loans are forgiven for the last 20 years. And you should, by the way.

And they should be. And that is a standard for getting. So the student loan that you took out with this predatory trade schools, what they typically are, or some kind of online school or something like that, they took out, they gave you student loans, they were federally insured student loans, and the federal government forgave those because they deemed the school to be predatory right yep okay how much did how much did you had you paid into it and they gave you that back that's what the refund check was yes and so I use that to pay off my car my 401k loan that I used to do my mortgage I know that's like against the rules I learned that now you know I didn't do that then that's

okay um that's okay and paid off my credit card so I've been consumer debt free all year or since then except the 401k no I paid that off as well oh good where did you get back way to go how much was it? I got like 16,000, 17,000 back. Okay. And that cleared up some of the remainder mess. All right, so let me think here. You pay, all right, so the student loan was taken out, the money was given to the predatory school, the predatory school goes broke, you are forgiven the student loan and they refunded you what you had paid on the student loan. I don't think that type of loan forgiveness is taxable. Most loan forgiveness is taxable, but this is a different program because you did not actually receive the money

here. The money you received back was your money you paid it paid against the loan yeah that was already your money yeah so if you take out a credit card loan and you go buy something for yourself or you put the money in your pocket right and then they forgive that that's taxable but you got the benefit of that you did not get any benefit here I don't think this is taxable but you're gonna have to check with a tax professional to be sure yeah that's what I wanted to see if you guys have any insight on because I'm currently getting laid off and my plan is to file my taxes like first thing next year to help bridge

any potential employment I'm expecting to run into but now I'm like if I'm gonna get taxed on that do I wait I don't think you're gonna get taxed on that before then I don't think you're going to here's the way let's get you a pure answer here's the way to do it go to RamseySolutions.com and we have indoor we call endorsed local providers they're people that we have vetted and we are comfortable with their professionalism and the quality of care that they give. One of them is in the area of tax. So you're looking for a tax ELP, endorsed local provider, at RamseySolutions.com in your area of Cincinnati. There will be one or two or

three of them. Okay. Holler at one of them and talk to them about preparing your taxes and ask them on the phone if this type of loan forgiveness is taxable. Tell them Dave said he doesn't think it is, but for them to double check it. Yeah. And I see something on here that says and I don't know if this was a part of American rescue because this was kind of in place before that. No, this is not American rescue. Yeah. But it says that if they're discharged between January 1st and December 31st of 2025, they're not taxable. So you shall see.

Okay. I don't think you're gonna get taxed on this one, okay? Okay. Good question. Good question. And lesson learned, politics aside, politicians tend to take credit for things they didn't do. It's part of being a politician and like when I was interviewing President

Trump before the election one of the things I told him was people like me that own small businesses and actually do create jobs it kind of pisses us off when you politicians say you create jobs because you politicians don't create nothing All you can do is create an environment for those of us that actually create jobs to function and he kind of laughed and goes Well, that's right. But then you know the next week he comes out and talks about all the jobs he created But that's that's politicians and Biden didn't forgive these loans either This this program has been in place God since student loans have been there Predatory lending so like a truck driving school that goes broke or

a tech school you go get a computer certification but they're just are some of times they're like hair care or a massage therapist or something like that and they they'll get student loans going in these things and they can gin them up and they make a ton of money and then they turn the key and walk away with all the money in their pocket. They're scams. Their fronts is what they are and they pop up and then they die. They pop up and then they die. Daytime television. If you're watching Judge Mathis or you know all that. I feel like that's all that's on TV are these, I don't want to call them education institutes but you know.

Well that's what they call themselves. Yeah. Yeah that and so we would be doing it as a starting that life skip But the federal student loan forgiveness has been there for those types of situations for at least 20 years at least Listen, if you really want to get technical, it's never an administration for giving debt. It's taxpayers We don't get the choice we just get the bill. That's what I'm saying like let's let's let's put the check on who is really paying. Yeah that's it that's for sure yeah anytime the government what was it Reagan said if the government says if somebody says I'm from the government and I'm here to help yeah run

yeah that's that's the bottom line there. And that's either party, I'll just tell you. So this is, but that that's the thing to remember. And just either way, the good news is, by the way, if you pass if someone passed away in your family, the student loans are forgiven. It's been that way 30 years. If someone is permanently disabled, their student loans are forgiven. It's been that way for 30 years. If someone is permanently disabled, their student loans are forgiven. It's been that way for 30 years. Okay. That's not a new program. It's been since I've been on the air, you know, that we've been talking about this. So that's the stuff. But either way the you do have to deal with the tax question. So Sydney's smart to ask that question about

the taxes. I think I'm pretty sure you're not going to get taxed but don't take Dave Ramsey's tax advice. I suck at it. Here it is. I found it. Borrower Defense. So this is a program that eliminates federal student loan belonging to borrowers who their college misled them or if their school engaged in misconduct, if they violated any state laws, the IRS has issued notices for these and they are not taxable as income. Okay.

There you go. That's according to Google. So also check that out because it's on the internet and Abraham Lincoln said everything on the internet is true. So. It's a good place to start. Yeah, that's the thing you got to remember. But that's probably it.

You found that on the IRS site or what? No, this is a article from Yahoo Finance so once again please don't take their advice or mine please get a professional to be sure but it sounds like that we're onto something there sounds like we're on the right track so good stuff very very cool all right ladies and gentlemen that's how we do it. Listen the way the student loans go away. Jade, how's your student loans go away? Work! Oh there's that! It's got to work. It's a new program. It's a brand new program that's out. It's called W-O-R-K.

Yeah it's called you wake up in the morning you go to work and you stay at work all day and then you take the money and you pay off your loans. Wow! For a long time. You ought to get a radio show. You don't have a you don't do a whole lot other in between you just work and pay off the loans and work and pay off the loans. My grandmother used to say there's a great place to go when you're broke to work. I love it. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey guys I've never this before, but I'm partnering with a nutrition company, Field

of Greens. Each fruit and vegetable in Field of Greens is selected by doctors to support heart, liver, and kidney health, plus metabolism for healthy weight. And your doctor will notice your improved health or Field of Greens will give you your money back. I can get behind a promise like that. Go to fieldofgreens.com slash ramsey and get 15% off with promo code RAMSEY. fieldofgreens.com slash ramsey. Hey, listen up guys. Black Friday deals start right now. Yep, you heard that right. You don't have to wait until Black Friday or even

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That's ramsysolutions.com slash store. Jade Walsh, Ramsey Personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. Alex and Brenda are with us. Hey guys, how are you? Welcome, welcome. Where do you all live? We're in Parker, Colorado, Just a little bit south of Denver. Oh cool Well welcome good to have you all the way over to Nashville to do a debt-free scream How much have you paid off? So Dave we paid off?

305 thousand dollars or three hundred five four hundred fifty Wow, sorry, how long did that take? Three years two months and 13 days. Three years and two months. Wow. And your range of income during that time? Our range of income was 148,000 to 240,000. Wow. Nice jump. What do y'all do for a living? I am full time with the Colorado Army National Guard.

And I'm a civilian with the Army National Guard as a cost accountant. Ah, very good. Very good Well, thanks for your service. Well done. You guys good work. Very fun. What kind of debt was this? 305,000 it was our mortgage Wow, you guys are so weird I love love it, weirdos. Good work. How much is this house worth? 850,000.

Shoot. How old are you two? We're in our early 30s. Wow. And you have a paid for $850,000 house. Yes, sir. Man, how much in your nest egg in your 401Ks in retirement?

Right around 300 as of right now. Wow. Excellent. So you're millionaires in your nest egg in your 401ks in retirement? I'm right around 300 as of right now Wow, so you're millionaires in your early 30s. We are I'm so proud of you. Thank you. Look at you, too Way to go man when you got married. How broke were you? We are actually fairly new to this marriage. We got married about four years ago Oh, okay, and if on this journey as singles okay okay yeah all right so you just took off and get this quick then well tell us your ramsey story how'd you get plugged into this three years and two months ago well she started a long time before I did I was kind of messing around and then she gave me your total money makeover.

When we were deciding if we were gonna date or not, I was like, read this book and let's talk about it. Whoa. And we'll decide if we wanna keep talking. You better have the right answers on the next dinner. So it was funny, because I read it and I was like, oh, I'm kinda doing all this stuff anyways, because I kinda got fed up with being broke.

And then I was like, oh, this is easy enough. So being kind of a money person anyways, I was like, all right, well, this is simple. I read the book, I had the seven steps, and I was just like, oh, this is easy enough. So being kind of a money person anyways, I was like, all right, well, this is simple. I read the book, I had the seven steps and I was just like, okay, let's do it. Here we go. I love it. Very cool. Very cool.

So you guys met at the National Guard, I assume? Yes. Okay. Very good. And man, that's a great situation you're in after just four years of marriage in your early thirties. But it sounds like Brenda, you had a head start on it. Yes, I grew up with parents who didn't do debt,

and so when I moved out, I just, I didn't do debt. I didn't have a hole to dig out of. Did y'all buy the house after marriage? We did. As soon as we got married, we became a family of five. We had his son and my two kids the day we got married. So I lived in a tiny little house, and we went out and we put over 50% down on our house

and decided just to kick it. So we made this kind of like our baby step two. Okay. Just took off running with it. Pretty intense then. Yeah. A big part of this was that we wanted to teach FPU, which we had done in the past and we just actually finished doing a week ago. Nice. Yeah. We just finished our second course. So we wanted to kind of be like practice what you preach. And because we didn't have a step two together, we kind of treated, you know, pay off the mortgage like our step two even though it's not exactly advised Alex would you pay off beforehand because for you that was kind of the

Change I was working a credit card and my car paying those off and I think together that was 19,000 okay. Wow Brenda put the screws to it. She said, not allowed. Very cool. Well, thanks for teaching financial peace university. That had to be a great class. You guys had to be like cloud nine.

Yeah, pretty excited. Yeah, we taught at once and then we took the most motivated couple that was there and we were their co-leaders the next time around. So this last time that we just finished. Yeah, Matthew and Amber, they were our co-leaders this time. They did great.

Yeah, I love it. Build a build the next generation of coordinators. Exactly. Good for you. Good for you. Alright, when you're coordinating a class or when someone asks how you're a millionaire at age early 30s with a paid for $850,000 house and You don't make two million dollars a year either

When someone asks, how did you do that? What do you tell them the key to getting out of debt is? Hard work for sure. I think between the two of us we had about 13 jobs We each had a solid job and then we took on several side jobs He can tell you what most of them were. So not all the same time, but over the three years I were doing this, I worked at Home Depot for a summer. We both worked delivering packages for Amazon. I was a tax assistant at our CPA office.

We both did landscaping. I did Uber and Lyft. I was a reservist in the National Guard. I did handyman work. She sold items on Nextdoor. So it was a whole bunch of, not all at once, but there was always something going on just to kind of keep it new and different.

So. I love that. So what happens next? You've got to pay for a house. You don't have a payment in the world. What are you planning? I think our next thing is probably cars. Okay.

We drive very old, very used cars. What are you gonna get? Nothing new but new to us probably a newish or newer minivan and then he needs a nicer commuter car He's driving a six car with something miles I first want to move up to this decade Well, I mean you drove those beaters and now you'll never have to again. Make sure you take pictures of them. We will. Before they leave. Because I've got pictures of every car I owned except one, and I really wish I had that one. Is it the original? No, it was one of those beaters

that I had. Somehow I managed to not. That was back when, when you know when we actually had film and stuff like that in cameras so anyway anyway side sidebar but yeah good good job you guys who was cheering you on as you went we have a whole list we have a ton of cheerleaders so Matthew and Amber like I mentioned our co-host on financial peace get the little cheat sheet it's okay to look at you can look at it I look at them all time my English brother Lloyd and his wife Haley are on this journey and they're right behind us in baby step two. Paul and Felicity and Sean and Rosa in our class and FPU cheering us along and also learning along with us and then

several co-workers we have Miss Cicely, Miss Miranda, Miss Alita and Miss Jennifer. Her mother Linda. Did you have anybody telling you not to do this? A couple people kept saying we're crazy. Yeah, probably. I don't have anybody specific. What was the most lucrative side hustle? One that made the most money. Probably Amazon Flex,

just because they give you blocks of time, and if you finish it early, you get paid for that full block later on. So we would take our older kids along with us, and they would throw us packages from the back, and we could finish a three hour route in an hour and a half and then go pick up another one. Which one did you dislike the most?

Probably Amazon Flex. It was a lot of work. There were days that we would be up at 3.30 in the morning, we'd go, well actually it was earlier than that, we'd be there at 3.30 and then we'd go to our real jobs at 6.37 and then sometimes after that one shift so it's crazy both of us sometimes work in 90 hour plus weeks and was it worth it it was totally worth it the grass really does feel different under your feet yeah tell somebody why because people call in all the time and they're like you know I've

got a low interest rate it's not they feel like it's not worth it to them but here you are doing it and you sacrifice to do it. I'm just a simplifier kind of person, so it's just one less thing to worry about. And now we really get to put it towards our retirement accounts. So we're able to max out our Roths and I think five years ago, I was looking at my net amounts

and I was like, I wasn't even making this amount five years ago. And that's after putting in max Roth contributions and having other things come out. So it's just a big thing out of the way. And now I get to stay home. Oh, wow. That's a big one. I'm not yet, but I'm in the process. Oh, wow. Very good.

Well, I guess so. You're a millionaire. That's neat. Love it. I'm so proud of y'all. You're amazing I mean in their early 30s so well done alright. Are the kiddos gonna scream with you? Yeah, all right. Let's get them up here introduce them give us their names and ages. Oh Or I might have a sad one. Oh, did we lose one? Here they come oh The little one said it's okay. Oh

She look at how cute that dress Here they come. Oh the little one's sad. That's okay. Oh she's cute. That dress. Oh my god. That's all right. How that's perfect. All right Alex and Brenda, Addie, Liam, Logan and Anna Lee. 305,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. All right three, two, one. We're debt-free. 3, 2, 1, we're debt free! Alright! I'm gonna scare the little one to death. That's good. Baby steps millionaires in their early 30s. What'd they do? Follow the stuff we teach. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here and I got a big announcement.

I'm coming to a city near you live on the Money and Relationships Tour with Dr. John Deloney. This is the most interactive event we've ever done. You get to decide what we talk about. You do not want to miss this. We'll be coming to Louisville, Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth, and Kansas City in April and May of 2025. Get your tickets and more information at ramsysolutions.com slash tour. Jade Walsh, Ramsey Personality, my co-host today.

Ramsey's Black Friday sale is going on right now. Get early access to some of our best deals of the year. Meaningful gifts for family and friends as low as eight dollars. Our best-selling books like the Total Money Makeover, Baby Steps Millionaires, Own Your Past Change Your Future only twelve dollars. Audio books and ebooks only eight dollars. Rachel Cruz's wallet right now, the In Black and and brown and champagne are on sale. Questions for human cards on sale at just $12 including the new Christmas edition. Check out the Black Friday

sales and you can check out everything including Jade's book. Money's not a math problem. Everything's in there. Check it all out. All kinds of t-shirts. We got a lot of fun stuff there. If you're on this journey you got to have some fun with it Ramsey solutions comm slash store or click the link if you're on podcast or YouTube. This is nice. That is nice It's a little champagne action there. I heard that's what they call it. Ah, Grand Rapids is in Michigan It is Dan is there. Hi, Dan. How are you? Hey, Dave, I do today better than I deserve. What's up? Hey Dave, how's it going today? Better than I deserve, what's up? Okay, make a long story short,

I'm in between baby step one and baby step two, you know, things are going good, stuff breaks, spend my thousand dollars, gotta rebuild baby step one. I got my girlfriend, she's kind of starting to get the U.T. and we wanna be married and have a family. She has $21,000 in credit card debt. She found this company, Acc debt relief. They offered us a payment of $342,000 a month for 48 months. That's to pay off the credit cards. The problem is that's only $16,400. I don't understand how this could work. Okay, because it's the same as filing bankruptcy, it's going to

destroy her credit. Here's the way they work, stay away from them, stay away from them, but here's why, okay? The way they work is when you sign up with them they take over all of your payments and the first thing they do is they stop making any payments and they let all the credit cards go into default

if they're not there already. And so they go into default and the credit card companies then will settle a bad debt. Now she will be in collections on every one of them and then they'll settle the bad debt for a lesser amount than is owed and set up payments on that. And that's how they know that they can get you a $16,000 deal. By the way, if you did this yourself and just quit paying for a year, which I don't recommend, then you can call them and settle for probably a quarter on the dollar. So you probably settle all this for five or six thousand bucks.

But that is also not paying your bill when you're able to, number one. Number two, you've completely destroyed your credit. I mean nasty bad, nasty. You got a bunch of outstanding bad debt at that point. And that's the way these people work and it basically does the same thing to your credit as filing Chapter 13 bankruptcy does. You can do the same thing with Chapter 13 bankruptcy. You can file with Chapter 13 bankruptcy if you qualify for the bankruptcy under guidelines,

then you can pay a percentage, not 100%, but you could pay in this case you said 16 out of 21, right? Yeah. Yeah, you could pay, so you could pay 75 cents on the dollar. You could agree to pay 75% to my unsecured creditors in my Chapter 13. That's not 48 months, that's 60 months, but they could do the exact same thing there and it will do the exact same thing to her credit, only technically she has filed for bankruptcy and the other one she didn't technically file for bankruptcy.

But it does the same amount of damage if not more to your reputation and to the process plus you're screwed you're in debt twenty one thousand dollars for forty eight for four years when you could have paid it off by next Christmas working five jobs yeah why can't you just paid up why can't you just work more and paid off tell us Tell us more about that. What's the income? I work for the railroad. I'm on 12 right now, which is really the most I can work. She's a teacher and she's starting to do Amazon Flex, but she has a daughter, I love to death.

What's she teach? She's like the director of a bunch of different daycares. She used to be a daycare teacher, but she's now like the director of a bunch of those. She makes about $55,000 a year. Okay. Now, instead of doing that, now that I've explained to you and answered your question what it does, I'll give you a suggestion rather than doing that, okay? And what I'll do is I'm going to give you Financial Peace University and every dollar

plus for both of you. She's going to have her account, you're going to have your account because you're not married. And I want both of you to get on a detailed tight budget. Don't spend any money on anything. Live on beans and rice, no eating out, no vacations, and working extra. If she has a teaching degree and a talent in a particular subject like math or English, she can do tutoring and make more than Amazon Flex. If she can get some students from a local elementary or local junior high or whatever and she teaches math in the afternoons or the math in the evenings after she gets home I mean you can make thirty to fifty

dollars an hour doing that yeah child care too and your kids sit in the other room while you're doing this they come to your house that's a great idea yeah I've got a friend that's a reading specialist that makes bank while her kids sit in the other room and on the side. And I mean, it's serious money there because they got reading problems and man, she's, wow, it's really cool stuff. So anyway, yeah, that's what I would add to this

and say, all right, we're gonna increase our income. We're gonna tighten down everything. We're gonna have a new thought. We're gonna get all of these credit cards tonight and have plastic surgery. And we're gonna pay a new thought we're gonna get all these credit cards tonight and have plastic surgery and We're gonna pay them at a hundred percent. We're gonna pay them so fast That they're in our rear-view mirror and we get a life

But 48 months man, that's like ridiculous. That's like saying I'm going to jail You get to go to jail for four years and you Barely just get to you know, you bring the food and slide it under the bars you know no thank you i don't want to live like that i want to get oh geez no man the goal needs to be if you can find an extra if you can make a goal that we're going to make or she's going to make 1700 extra dollars find it every single month what does it look like is it amazon flex is it tutoring that pays it off in one year yeah is it child care is it and is it pay is it a cut in the budget she makes 55 already yeah yeah

so yeah that's the kind of stuff we're doing Dan so we're gonna help you with that it's the hard way but it's the fast way it's deep sacrifice but it's in your rear-view mirror and you get to have a great life on the other side of it versus signing up for a long slug through the mud that's what we're doing and all I'll pass and at the end of it at the end of the story you're still screwed because you just completely destroyed everything as far as credit goes so she's probably gonna have some dings on her credit probably already does but nothing like what you'd be signing up for if you go to those type of a company. So we do not recommend them at all.

Hang on the line, the team will pick up and we will get you signed up for Financial Peace University, get her signed up. You guys, you can go through the class together, but you need your own separate budgets because you're not married yet, and you keep your finances separate until you're married so good question sir I appreciate you checking on her behalf Wow those things are you see them on cable TV and

and there's a couple of them have been fined like 400 I mean one of them got fined like it can't be 400 million was that the fine there's some ridiculous One that Tom Selleck endorsed and the Federal Trade Commission hammered them with fines a couple of years ago Because they just they're there. It's just a scummy side of the world Yeah, it's scummy and I don't I don't like situations where you take control from you and give it to someone else to do things on your behalf And what they're doing is acting like I didn't pay my bill so that they can get a

discount. Yeah. I mean that in trashing my stuff in the meantime. But we're in the debt relief business just like Dave Ramsey. No you're not. It's not even close. Not even close to the same thing. So you have to stay away from those things. And they call themselves also debt consolidation. Yeah. And it's not debt consolidation at all. You're not consolidating debt.

Consolidating debt is when you get one debt and pay off all the others with the one debt. Well, you don't pay it off. You move it to the one debt. But that's like a home equity loan. That's debt consolidation. But not paying them and you paying these goobers one payment that's not consolidation at all and it's really not debt relief no it's not relief it's um well at the end I guess it is in one sense but look wonder what the percentage of people that complete it is probably pretty low that's a good question that

would be interesting to look at yeah you, you don't finish it, you're really screwed. That puts us out of the Ramsey show in the books. Hey, you're still here? What are you doing? You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey Network app, right? All you gotta do to finish the episode is search Ramsey Network in the App Store, Google Play Store, or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for free. Yep, you heard me right, for free. Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show. Ba-da-bing, ba-da-boom. All right, I'm getting out of here. Enjoy. We'll see you on the app.