The Ramsey Show - Changing Your Money Mindset Is The First Step To Lasting Wealth

Episode Date: July 7, 2026

📈 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Are you on track with the Baby Steps? Get a Free Personalized Plan.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ❓ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Have a money question? Ask Ramsey is here to help.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Dave Ramsey and George Kamel answer your questions and discuss: “Should I pull from my investments to pay my mortgage off?” “My wife has been diagnosed with terminal cancer and I'm worried I don't have enough saved.” “Is an Airbnb a good investment?” “Does it set the right example to pay for my son's college?” “I'm embarrassed by what I do for a living. How do I talk about it confidently?” Next Steps: 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 weekdays from 2–5 p.m. ET 📩 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Email Dave On-Air With Your Questions on Debt and Finance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 💵 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 🏠 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Get organized and prepared to buy or sell a home⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 🎟️ Get your ticket for Investing Essentials today! Connect With Our Sponsors: Go to⁠⁠⁠ Angel Studios⁠⁠⁠ to discover entertainment you can feel good about. Get 10% off your first month of⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ BetterHel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠p Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Boost Mobile⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to switch today! If you want your car to keep going and going, trust ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Christian Brothers Automotive⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Find a local shop and get an exclusive Ramsey discount of 10% (up to $250) off Learn more about⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Christian Healthcare Ministries⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get started today with⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Churchill Mortgage⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get 20% off when you join ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠DeleteMe⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Go to⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ FAIRWINDS Credit Union⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for an exclusive account bundle! Debt collectors hassling you? Take back control of your life at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Guardian Litigation Group⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Find top health insurance plans at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Health Trust Financial⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Use code RAMSEY to save 20% at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Mama Bear Legal Forms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Visit⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ NetSuite⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ today to learn more. Try ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quo⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for free, plus get 20% off your first six months. Quo: no missed calls, no missed customers. Sign up for your $1.00/month trial at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Shopify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Get started at ⁠⁠World News⁠⁠ OR use promo code RAMSEY for a 30-day free trial. Get started with ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YRefy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or call 844-2-RAMSEY Visit⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Zander Insurance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or call 1-800-356-4282 for your free instant quote today!  Explore more from Ramsey Network: 💸 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Ramsey Show Highlights⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 🧠 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Dr. John Delony Show⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 🍸 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Smart Money Happy Hour⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 💰 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠George Kamel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 📈 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠EntreLeadership⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Brought to you by the Every Dollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, George Camel, Ramsey Personality, number one, bestselling author, and co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour. He's my co-host today. Open phones at AAA-825-225. The call is free.

And some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. Sarah is in Philadelphia. Hi, Sarah, what's up in your world? Hi, I can't believe I'm talking to you. This is crazy. What a blessing. Thank you. Well, we're honored to have you.

How can we help? Wow, okay. So I am stuck in a apartment lease that is around 60% of my take-home pay. What happened? So I signed on about three years ago when it was around 45%. And so they've been increasing it around 10 to 15% every year. And I have to admit, I'm 30 years old, so I was around 27 when I signed on. And I wasn't very responsible with money at that time.

But as I've started listening to your show, I've become very aware I kind of took the blindfold off and started looking at my finances. And it's just, I have this for about 11 more months, and it's really hard for me to be able to work my payoff debt journey and have any margin. So I was hoping maybe you had some advice. When's the lease up? So the lease is up this upcoming May. A year?

Yeah. Where were you two months ago? I was there and they, the landlord gave me, she said you have a week to either find a new place to live or sign on to this increase. And if you don't sign within a week, we're going to raise it to, instead of 2100, go raise it to 2,300 for the year. Okay. And so you decide not to move? Yeah, I. Which you should have moved two months ago, right?

That would have solved the whole problem. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. How many bedrooms is the apartment? It has two. How many roommates do you have? None.

You need one. Yeah, I do. For the next year. I don't know if I'm able to get one, though. Why? Do you think a roommate would sign out on for 10 months? Sure. I don't know.

Yeah. I'll sign on for 11 or 12. A lot of people. A lot of people. Have you been on any of these, you know, there's Facebook groups to connect people, there's apps, there's all kinds of ways. or asking around to your friends. Someone's probably getting out of a lease and would love to cut their rent in half just like you.

Yeah. I've been on a couple Facebook groups. I really haven't known what to do, so I should put a little gas in the tank. Yeah. Yeah, you got fired up here. You got, I mean, you signed up two months ago for a, you know, a mathematical suicide mission, right? And so we've got to solve. We've got to solve for that and get the.

the next 10 months because I don't think the apartment complex is going to let you out of a lease. If you're in a single family and you had an individual landlord rather than a corporate landlord that's a management company, sometimes like I've got single family properties and sometimes somebody comes to us and needs to move, we say, okay, if we can find someone to take your spot, we'll let you out. And we put the house up for rent and we get a new tenant and we release them as an act of mercy. Okay. And, but usually I don't find, that much with apartment complexes? They probably have a whole bunch of other vacancies.

I'd rather fill rather than fill yours. Yeah. It's a really corporate complex. Have you read your lease agreement? I would be looking through that thing with a fine-tooth comb to see what it actually says. Yeah, I've been looking through it. They basically said if I break my lease, I'm subject to pay out the rest of the term. Yeah.

I picked up a side hustle, though. I typically make about $4,000 a month, but I recently started doing some freelance work, so now I'm making about $5,000 a month. So it might be able to hold me over for the rest of the term. But I don't even know, like, I don't know if I'm trying to think ahead because I don't want. What's your full-time job? I work in marketing. I'm a marketing manager.

So what would it take to get your cord income up in the meantime? I just moved into this role. I just got a promotion. motion. So. Yeah, so your answer is side hustles and roommate to get to get through the 10 months. And then for God's sakes, girl, get out of there. Next time the manager says, don't, you know, sign up, you go, no, no, I'm leaving like my

hair's on fire. I know. The reason I signed is I didn't have, I didn't have a plan when they're like, you have a week. You got until May to get you one now. I do. So don't be surprised. Get a plan.

side hustle, get a roommate, make it through till next year. You're probably going to limit the progress on your other financial goals, like getting out of debt and those other things, because you're strapped to this thing. You strapped yourself to this thing. So, yeah, you know, so I want you to be very, you've been passive in this relationship with this landlord to this point. I want you to be very proactive with this landlord in the future. And that is, I'll go ahead and give you notice now that I'm leaving. in May. And by the way, if you want to fill the apartment in the meantime, I would love you for it. Matter of fact, I'd probably pay you to do it. If you want to put somebody in here and let me out of the

lease, that would be awesome and amazing too. But I'll go ahead and let you know now. I won't be here on renewal. No pressure tactics, no rent raises, no nothing. I am what's known as Gone Girl. I'm out of here. And go ahead and let them know. Go ahead and set yourself up and get yourself a plan so you're not homeless. And you need to market this spare room like a real estate agent. I mean, you need to make this feel like the best deal in a 20-mile radius to have this room at this price and really sell it with the copy. Yeah, and then, you know, interview the people like you were hiring an employee because you are and don't hire a crazy one. You know, that's a good thing. So, I mean, you just got to use some proactive things in this process here.

It's an emergency. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. You know, I think the dumbest things I've ever done, George, are when one of two things. And I've done so many dumb things. I mean, that's why I get to do this show because I've got a Ph.D. in DUNB. So, but I mean, usually it's around two things. One is I get, I feel like for whatever reason that I'm trapped and I'm desperate. You're painted into a corner.

And when I get desperate, instead of getting paint on my shoes, I stand there. in the corner and watch it dry, you know, and I just stay there. I get, or I lunge at something dumb, you know, desperate usually equals stupid for me, and a lot of people. And the other one is, if I'm asleep at the wheel, if I'm just kind of coasting and Laris good and I'm not half put, paying attention, and the security alarm, the alarm, here's one that happened to me one time, it automatically renewed for three years on the alarm on the house, and it was twice as expensive as it should have been. And I should have cut the stupid thing off and just with a pair of side cutters.

I mean, it should have just run them off. But I, but it had an auto renewal for three years, which actually ended up costing them a lot of money because I advertised against them. Oh, boy. Using that. So it didn't work out real well for them because they should have let me out of it. But, you know, I, it was my fault because they had an auto three-year renewal like her lease thing. Yeah.

And I was asleep at the wheel. Pay attention. Hey guys, it's Rachel Cruz. When it comes to life insurance, most people fall into one of two camps, the ones who make a plan to protect their family, and the ones who hope everything will just work out. But hope isn't a financial plan. When you get married or have kids,

your money decisions aren't just about you anymore. Your income helps keep the lights on, pay the mortgage, and put food on the table. And if something happens to you, will your family have protection or uncertain? Well, at Ramsey, we recommend term life insurance that 10 to 12 times your income with a 15 to 20 year term for the years that your kids are at home and your mortgage is still being paid off. That's why Winston and I have our term life coverage through Zander insurance.

They're an independent broker who works for you shopping all the top companies to find the most competitive prices on coverage you need. Get instant quotes online in just minutes at zander.com or call 800 at 356. 4282 to get your family protected with term life insurance. That's zander.com or 800356-4282. Tiffany is in Spokane. Hi, Tiffany. How are you?

Good. I'm grateful to be on. Thanks for having me. Certainly. How can we help? I am struggling through baby step number three. It feels like I'm no longer winning, if that makes sense. How do I keep going?

How much debt did you pay off? $24,000. How long did that take? About eight months once I got serious. Wow, that's pretty cool. Okay, and how much are you trying to save in your baby step three, emergency fund? I am a single mom, so I'm trying to save for five months or up to six months, somewhere over three, so about... How much money?

$9,000. Like $9,200. Okay, you want $9,000. But you did $24,000. 4,000 in how many months? Eight. Eight. Which means that if we use that math, you would have this done in four.

What has changed? It feels like, I think it's because paying other people, you get those wins, and I feel like paying myself, I know it sounds like a first. No, but mathematically, has anything changed? No, absolutely not. Okay. Well, you just need to emotionally treat it like a debt then. I guess so, huh? Yeah, I've got to do, you know, what, what you're right, I agree with you.

Knocking off the smallest debt to the largest debt, that snowball gives you a feedback loop, and it keeps you motivated, and it keeps you moving, and it's easier to do something. Pain avoidance is more motivating than pleasure seeking. Right. Those are the two things that motivate us, but pain avoidance is more motivating than pleasure seeking. Both things motivate humans, but this is the saving side. is pleasure seeking. Wealth building is pleasure seeking.

And it's not as, it doesn't activate the desperation centers of the brain if there is such a thing. Yeah, it's less gratifying. I see Baby Seb 3 is a financial purgatory. You're not quite building for the future. You're not quite paying, it doesn't have that like water pistol through hell vibe,

but you're just sort of like stacking the acorns for the winter ahead. And so it doesn't feel like you're doing anything in the moment. But what you're really doing is you are buying yourself a never-go-in-de-de-de-de-again insurance plan. And insurance is not sexy. It is meant to be boring. But think about that.

You're building a fortress between you and a payment ever again. That's powerful. That gets me excited. Yeah, you're right. You're right. When I finished babysat too, I was like, oh, I can't wait. And then I'm like, it's kind of anticlimatic. Because you're like, yay, waiting for the fireworks to go off.

And then it's like, oh, what? How do I keep going? No one's cheering you on when you add a little bit of money to that high-yield savings account. No, absolutely. You don't get to give the finger to Citibank. It's just, it's not as fun. No, it really is that. So I agree with you on all that.

But now that we've intellectually said all that out loud, then what we do is we use our intellect to activate our will and say, all right, Will, we're going to be emotional about this and get it behind us. This is a rip the band-aid off thing. I'm going to take a deep breath and dive to the bottom of the pool. Here we go. And I'm going to knock this thing out right now. And I'm going to treat it with the same intensity, even though it doesn't naturally, the intensity doesn't naturally, the intensity doesn't naturally come. I'm going to manufacture it as an act of my intellect. Gotcha.

Okay. Yeah. Saying it out loud makes me. But let me reiterate, enjoy what George and I both said, what you're experiencing is very normal, but that doesn't mean you want to cave into it. And that's why I wanted to act, because I'm like, how do I stay motivated? I don't want to lose it. I don't want to lose this, you know, intensity. But every month that it's like, oh, it's barely moving.

It's barely moving. Yeah. I don't know. I kept having, and I'm not a natural saver, so saving that up for me was hard. But I kept saying, okay, I'm going to turn an emergency into an inconvenience by having this. Oh, okay. And I'm going to have an insurance policy between me, between me and the stupid world out there that seems to have its claws out after me half the time. When you remember the chaos that has ensued when you had an emergency when you were broke, you just remove all the power from that.

When do you have an emergency fund? You go, you don't get a say. And it's amazing. When you're broke, your life looks like a country song. Everything's an emergency. Like every stinking thing that comes up. The dog gets a hangnail. It's an emergency.

I mean, everything is an emergency, you know? And all of a sudden, when you got $10,000 and no debt and room in your budget, it takes a different thing to qualify under the emergency category. And you tend to actually have less emergencies because you're doing proper maintenance on stuff. you can cash flow a lot of these things. Get a nicer car. Yeah. Yeah, when you're broke, you're just desperate at every level.

And so I feel you, Tiffany. It is a slog to get through. Michael's in Houston. Hey, Michael, what's up? Hey, Dave, how's going? Better than I deserve. How can we help? Hey, so I am 20 years old.

My girlfriend is 19, and we've been together for four years. And she talks to me every day about getting married. And I love that girl. I want to marry her, but I don't quite feel ready. Am I being unfair to her? You're 16 when this started, right? Yes, sir. So this is like high school sweetheart.

Yes, sir. Okay. Does she have a job? Yes, we actually work together with insurance agents. You're a 19 and a 20-year-old insurance agent. Yes, sir. How long have you been doing that? So right after I graduated, I started working this job, and I've got a few promotions.

So now I'm a little higher up in the company, and I'm going to community and college at the same time. So I've been doing this since I graduated in 2024. What do you make? Right now, I'm making $40,000 a year, plus $1,000. monthly commissions, and I also have room to grow. Monthly commissions amount of what? I just got promoted, so I only got one commission bonus so far, and that was about 700 last month. Okay.

Are you living at your parents' house? Yes, sir, I am. Is she living at her parents' house? No, she's living on her own, actually. What does she make? She makes 30,000 Okay All right

How much debt do you each have We both have no debt Luckily We've been very blessed And I've been listening to you I've made her read Total Money Makeover So

And what does she say about all that stuff She says, I don't like that guy Okay But she knows it's good advice So I listen to the show about every day. I love it all. Yeah, but is she going to be a, uh, uh, it's not the guy that matters. I couldn't

give a crap whether she likes me or not. But, um, but the, uh, if she's not, if you guys are not aligned on how you're going to handle your money when you get married, then you're not ready to get married. We, we're aligned. Um, we've had countless conversations, um, about money and, uh, then I'm confused why they, um, I'm not. confused why she read the total money makeover and hated it, if you're aligned. Well, she liked the book, but I try to get her listen to the podcast, but I think she might think you're a little too stern, but that's exactly what I like to hear, though.

Yeah. Well, the tone versus the principles is what we're trying to get after here. Does she actually believe in the principles? When you guys talk about money, is it we want to continue living debt-free, we want to build wealth of the future, we don't want debt to be a part of that, we want to do it wisely without a lot of risk. Yes. Absolutely, yes. We are 100% aligned on that fact. And where's the pressure coming from where she's talking about marriage every single day? Likes me a lot, I guess. And I like her a lot, too. I think she's just ready to start our life together. Are you guys, by chance,

involved in a good church? Yes, sir. We are. I think the two of you sit down with some of your pastors and get some counsel there as to emotionally and spiritually whether you all are ready to be married. I don't hear any reason not to be married other than you're very young, but I was just a little bit older than you when I got married, so I was 21,

and I've been married 45 years. Dave was a very mature 21-year-old. You looked older than you do today, Dave. There's some 30-year-olds that aren't as mature as you at 21. Think about that. I think you're saying I was a nerd. I think I just called a nerd by George.

George of all people. I finally hurt his feelings, guys. Wow. One of the biggest myths about money is that if you're winning with money, you're never supposed to spend any. That's not true. Some of the best money you'll spend is making memories with the people you love. That's why I was excited to find out about Young Washington from Angel.

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Hi, Michelle. How are you? Oh, I'm great. How are you guys? Better than I deserve. What's up? I have a question around retirement. 61 years old. I make 3744 monthly. I have my home is paid off. All my bills are paid off.

And I kind of have extra money. Now I'm putting money in my Roth. I have a $500,000 401K. I have $7,000 in HSA. And I'm just building my Roth up right now. I only have $3,000 in there. But I'm not asking that out. The $3,700 a month is Social Security?

No, no, no, no. I'm working. I'm 61 years old. I'm working. Okay. You said you're 61. I heard that. Yeah, okay.

Yeah. Okay. So, that's okay. So your questions, what? So I'm looking forward towards retirement, and I feel like I should have, I don't have a pension or anything. So I was thinking about investing in something. that I could make money at, and I was looking at an Airbnb situation. I just wanted your

opinion on those. Well, have you ever had dreams of running a tiny hotel? Yes. Really? I actually have. You love that idea of changing the sheets and dealing with all the issues and the damage and the wear and tear from the party. That excites you. Well, yeah. I don't know how you can't sound word. I didn't think that all for.

I'm just kind of, I'm playing it up a little bit, but Airbnb has been marketed on social media as this like get rich quick hack and you'll make 20 grand a month if you just do this. And the truth is it's a lot of work. There's a lot of risk. There's a lot of vacancy and issues to deal with. And your money might be better off put into the stock market if you're trying to make, quote, passive income. This is not passive at all. No. You're running a hotel.

I know that. Yeah, I know. But I'm looking also. for something to keep me busy in retirement. I'm not going to travel the world. I don't do that stuff. So I guess I'm a little worried about being bored. Well, I think I, well, you do what you want to do.

I, in real estate, there is a spectrum from a hassle spectrum. And along the hassle spectrum goes the income. And so the higher the hassle and the more. garbage and trash and weird people you have to put up with, the higher your rent. Okay, so let me give you an example. Some of the best rate of return on real estate is owning a trailer park. Fabulous return on investment cash on cash. But you're running a trailer park.

Right. Hello. Okay. I owned a bunch of lower income property, and I, in my 20s, Some of it was weekly rentals, about as close to Airbnb as you could have in those days. But it wasn't really they move in and out weekly. It's they paid weekly because they were irresponsible so they didn't snort it or drink their paycheck over the weekend. They gave it to me on Friday, and that way they kept a place to live.

And the weekly rentals were high hassle Friday afternoon lining up at the door of the office, paying us their weekly rentals. and we made seriously good money because we're renting it for 25, 30 percent more than we'd rented it for by the month. But we had a lot of hassle because of the type of clientele we were dealing with there. I mean, we're having to keep people from running prostitution and drug rings out of our houses, you know. It was a constant pain in the butt. Now, that's on one end of the spectrum. All the way over on the other end of the spectrum, you could buy a warehouse. That's called a triple net lease where they pay the utilities, they pay the taxes, they pay the insurance,

and they send you a rent check that's much smaller. But you will never do anything except look up in the mailbox and see a rent check. They do the maintenance. You don't do anything. But you don't make nearly as much return on investment in a warehouse as you do on an Airbnb. But the Airbnb will work your butt off. You turn yourself into a maid, changing sheets after a bachelorette party. No, thank you.

Okay. The other part I'm seeing here, Michelle, I'm going to find a different side hustle. I don't see the money to even buy the Airbnb in these numbers. Yeah, where are you going to pay? How are you going to pay for it? Oh, yeah, no, I'm not doing this right away. It's just I'm trying to think of, you know. Okay.

I would buy some rental real estate if you want to buy some real estate and pay cash for it later on when you're ready to do this. If you did it six or seven years from now, maybe you got a million dollars, your half million has turned into at that point. And maybe you put three or four hundred thousand into a rental property, and that's part of your deal. and if you want something to do, just go open a small business, have a side hustle that you can solve the border without all of this. Yeah. I personally, I'm just not a fan of the Airbnb. I think it's overhyped, overdone. Well, the numbers are now showing there's an oversupply and not enough demand. Well, in some areas, in some areas, there's been legislation come out to stop them from happening. Because your neighbors don't want to exist.

Because you're no longer allow you to run a hotel in the middle of a neighborhood because it's not zoned for it. and they're stopping it in some areas. So people that bought a house got a big old payment on it because TikTok told them to be an Airbnb landlord, then now they're screwed. So now, I'm not a fan. I'm not a fan. If somebody wants to do that,

and you ought to do 10 of them, and you ought to just hire four maids that work for you and three repairmen. And you plan on being over there every week and plan on, you know, have the cops on speed dial. and, you know, then you've got your Airbnb, ready-set-go. And that's what you're dealing with. TikTok doesn't tell you that part.

The neighbors are going to call you. They're going to go, hey, the freaking music over there, hello, it's cranked up again. This is not a rock venue. It's a house. You know, I mean, it's just, this is the kind of stuff you're going to deal with. All the freaking time. Not a fan. Not a fan.

I've seen a lot of these videos, Dave, and I know exactly where Michelle got this from. Because people send me these videos saying, what do you think about this? And it's some couple going, we retired and we don't work anymore. We just own 17 Airbnbs and here's our numbers. We make a million dollars a month and you can buy our course and we'll show you how to do it. So that's how these people are making a million dollars a month. Why are you selling a course? That's the big question mark.

Everyone. Well, at least I have. Not everyone. And the course is only 3,000. So I'm going to sidestep my million dollar income and I'll go over here and make sure for $3,000 I'm distracted. This is a warning. Untrue, untrue, untrue, and, eh, and, and. Lied. You just lied.

They're selling you a dream. A nightmare. That's it. Keep you up nights. Michael's in Miami. Michael, what's up? Hi, Dave. Thank you for taking my call.

I have an interest in dilemma. I'm trying to get some advice. Interesting thing is I work for a credit union, so I'm kind of thinking about what I would do. I recently moved from Jacksonville, Florida, to Miami. I sold a house. It was pretty and clear. I didn't have any debts. And I bought a condominium here in Miami.

Obviously, the lifestyle is a little bit higher, and the condo that bought was $600,000. I have a mortgage right now of $154,000 because that's what was left if I sold my house in Jacksonville. And I'm contemplating whether or not I should pay the mortgage off with my investments, even though I would be paying taxes and capital gains on those. 100%. I do it by nightfall.

Okay. I've never had anybody in all. There's people that hate Dave Ramsey for almost everything. I mean, there's entire websites devoted to hating me. No one has ever complained that paid off their mortgage because I told them to. I've never had anybody call me back and go, oh, you're just so dumb, Dave. I've never heard that. They gripe at me about everything else.

The Airbnb call we just got, we'll get hate mail for days from that from some of you people that are all twisted up about that. Okay, that's fine. Get in line. But no one ever bothers us when we tell people to pay off their mortgage, man. I've never got anybody that said, don't do it. Dave's crazy. He doesn't know what he's talking about. I paid off my mortgage and then I went broke.

It can't happen mathematically. No one ever. Now, the key is it sounds like he has non-retirement investments. Yep. And he can sell those. Now, hopefully it's long-term capital gains, which is going to be much lower than the short-term capital gains taxed ordinary income. I'm sure it is.

So if that's the case, do the math. go, okay, 15% of whatever the gain is, I'll pay 20 grand and never have a mortgage again. That's a pretty sweet deal. The other thing is this, Michael, the fact that you asked this question on a nationally broadcast podcast with 30 million people listening in tells me you desperately want to pay it off and you just wanted somebody to tell you to do it. Do it. Hey, guys, healthcare is one of the biggest stress points in your budget. It's confusing. and most of the time it feels completely out of your control.

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Right now, CHM is offering new members a 50% credit towards their first month of membership. Go to CHministries.org slash budget and use promo code Ramsey. That's CHMinistries.org slash budget and use promo code Ramsey. So two years ago, for the first time, George and I did an event called Investing Essentials. And we unpacked my personal playbook on investing. And that includes why I don't invest in some things, for instance, Airbnb like we just talked about.

And but other real estate that I do invest in and why and how I choose that. And other things like mutual funds are why I do those and why I don't. do other things. And we get into the detail, and George is really good at unpacking some of that stuff as well. We're going to do our third one ever. We've only done it a couple times. September 1st and 2nd, it's a virtual two-night event investing essentials. It's the only place you get this information. We're going to go through the basics on investing for just a minute, and then we're going to go deep dive into this stuff. Tickets are $199. This year we're going to unpack some stuff. We were just working on it earlier today. We're going to unpack some stuff on.

estate planning and some stuff on legacy and a few things like that that you guys have requested because one of the things we always talk about around here and people love to use that as their motivation is why am I doing all these things so that I can change my family tree? And what does that mean? We're going to get into the nitty-gritty, nerdy details. If you've ever wanted Dave, you know, with the formulas and the spreadsheets, this is your chance to really nerd out and learn some things. Nerd Dave. There we go. A, Ramsey Solutions.com slash events.

Tickets are $199, September 1st and 2nd, investing essentials. Or you can click the link in the show notes if you're on podcast or YouTube. Lloyd's in Waco, Texas. Hi, Lloyd. How are you? Hi, Dave. I'm doing very well. Thank you for taking my call.

I hope you're doing well as also. We are, sir. Good, good. I'm a little bit nervous. I've never put a story out like this for anyone, but my wife was diagnosed with cancer. cancer, a rare cancer, three years ago, and we had a thriving business. I'm a lifetime entrepreneur.

I've done lots of things, but we ended up about six months after we found out about her cancer, we were able to sell our business and make some really good financial deposits and so that I could, you know, be away from that and spend time with her because we weren't sure at that time, you know, what we had left. So I put the money into CDs. I put some in Edward Jones account, and here we are three years down the road, which we're so thankful to be there, but our living expenses were not making the money from the investments to cover our living expenses yearly.

And so I'm just wondering, is there a better place that I need to put money? Or I don't really want to go back to work and start any business. to be available for her. And, you know, I'm just in this cycle of anxiety about running out of money and fear and then heartbreak and sadness and just all of the above is just kind of howling me in. And I just started listening to your show about three four days ago. You said she was diagnosed three years ago. So how's she doing now?

She's doing really well. We've been through three lines of chemotherapy and fixing to start. a fourth, just kind of general chemotherapy. It's non-specific, you know, she's had some progression, which, you know, she'll have progression, and then we'll have the fears that come with that, and then, you know, we'll go and everything will be stable. And so that's a win for us, you know. Doctors give prognosis, but that's according to them. You know, we're believers in Jesus, and he can intervene at any moment.

And so, you know, that's what we pray for. Amen. But the truth is, though, that as the interest rates drop, then, you know, so does the money it's accruing and then pulling money out. There's less money there to, you know, to have interest on. And so anyway, just looking for a little bit of advice. Let me get a couple of other things. What's the size of the nest egg that's left?

Well, in Edward Jones, we have right at a million dollars. I have a hundred thousand in e-trade with Corweave, and that's dropped to about 65. So one of my questions is, do I sell that and put that somewhere else? I have a half million in a CD at a bank drawn 3.4. I want to do something with that. And what is your monthly need? Our health insurance alone is about $50,000. And I would say our monthly needs, absolute needs, are about 120 to 140.

You know, they vary depending on if we're... You mean $120,000 a year? Yes, yes, yes. So you need $10,000 a lot. Okay, so we need this million five to produce $10,000 a month and it's not. Okay. All right. Well, if it was sitting in...

We have no debt. We own our home. We own our land. And then in addition to that, I have a $2 million investment in the company that I sold. I reinvested with it as a larger company. Does it create revenue monthly? It does not. No.

It does not. It will only pay off when that company sells. Yeah. And I get the... Yeah. And there's no buyout provision. No. Early. You're stuck telling they do what they do.

Yes, but I do think it's a good investment. I wasn't questioning that. I'm just trying to learn your terms. Okay. Yes, no. No, there's no buy out. So $1.5 is what you have available to you that's not in retirement accounts? That's correct. It's not in retirement accounts. Yeah, me and $6,000, yeah, with the $100,000 down to $65. But, yeah. All right, so if it made 10%, you'd be fine.

I think so, yes. Yeah, and the S&P 500 average is more than that. And for the past five years, it's averaged way more than that. This year, it's up 10% year-to-date. Yes. So your investments are, that portion of your portfolio is underperforming what you need it to. Yes. Do you know what you're invested in?

Well, I don't have it all in one. I do not. I have a copy of what it's invested. again, but I didn't pull it down. As a group, this stuff is underperforming the S&P, which it should because you've got 500 in a CD, so it should be. Yes. Yeah.

So if I'm you, I'm moving it more to market rates of return in conservative mutual fund investing that has long track records that's going to get the portfolio performing at a rate that doesn't burn you up. I think it'll run in perpetuation. Okay. But the problem is you've got, you know, you've got at least a third. third of it, well, I mean, that e-trade account sucks beyond belief. That's horrible. But nothing should be down 35% in this world that we're in right now. So that was just a horrible

thing there. But that's a side. It's a small amount. But I mean, if that $565,000 plus that million and Edward Jones goes to work to the tune of $10% a year, that's $160,000 a year. Correct. Yeah. And so what I want you to do is probably get a second set of eyes on this other than who you've had and go to Ramsey Solutions and click on SmartVestor for SmartVestor pro in your area and sit down with them and with the heart of a teacher and say, I need this million five to conservatively without taking huge amounts of risk to produce enough to feed our family while we go through this cancer battle. And I think you can. I think you can. and then they need to teach you, you know, what risk you are taking, what marketplace risk is there.

And, you know, but if the marketplace average is 11 percent and you pull off 10, it'll run hypothetically forever, right? But you don't need it to run forever because either we're going to have some healing this side of heaven or some healing in heaven. And then there's going to be a resumption of your life at that point. You're not going to be fighting this same thing 15 years from today. Would you agree with that? I do agree with that, unfortunately. Yeah, one way or the other. No, it could be fortunately.

She could get healed. Like you said, Jesus could touch her. Yes. And I hope he does. Yeah, I do too. I do too. Or he could touch her and let her sit beside him and wait on you. You know, those are the two options.

That's one of those two things is going to happen, not a 15-year slog. You're in better shape than you think. You just need a clear plan of what we're going to do with this money. Man, I'm sorry you guys are going through this. What a horrible thing. And to have to sit and do math and figure out stuff in the middle of all this emotion? Wow. Yeah, sit down with a smart vestor pro at Ramsey Solutions. They'll help you put together a portfolio that'll work on this. This one isn't working. As a dad of young kids, I'm starting to think a lot more about the world they're growing up in and how I'll help them make sense of it as they get older. And that's why I like World Watch, a video news service for preteens and teens. Because one thing I know for sure, if you don't teach your kids how to understand the world, somebody, else will. And these days, that could be TikTok, YouTube, Instagram influencers, or whoever happens to show up in their social media feed. World Watch's 10-minute videos help young people understand what's happening in the world through a Christian worldview without all the outrage, negativity, and noise that is everywhere these days. The reporting is factual, engaging, and designed specifically for pre-teens

and teens. And World Watch creates opportunities for something every family needs more of, meaningful conversations. Instead of just reacting to headlines, Kids learn how to think about what's happening in the world, and parents get a chance to keep those conversations going at home. Because when my kids are old enough, I want them informed, not overwhelmed. And right now, you can get a 30-day free trial. Just go to Worldwatch.com News slash Ramsey or use promo code Ramsey to get started. That's worldwatch.com.com slash Ramsey. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio.

I'm Dave Ramsey, George Camel, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author. is my co-host, Amy, is in Detroit. Hi, Amy, how are you? Good. How are you? Thanks for taking my phone call. Sure. What's up?

So my overall question is mostly to do with my son. He's going to be a senior going off to college here in another year. We, my husband and I, I know we can financially cover his tuition, room and board for college. But I fear that, one, it's not. teaching him financial responsibility, because obviously the money comes from somewhere. But on the flip side of it, am I putting him in a massive hole when I could easily cover it? There's also a little caveat to it where I do have a bulk amount of money set aside, but was given to me by a deceased parent.

And so I'm a little tied to that money, unfortunately. So I'm kind of, I go back and forth. Well, the last part of it is up to you to figure out. Yeah. There's not a Ramsey answer to you being tied emotionally to an inheritance situation. That's something you need to work through, and you obviously are. We paid for our three kids college and room and board. All three of them, however, were financially responsible and knew how to work.

and were not entitled brats. They did know the value of a dollar before they went to college. Right. If the guy's a senior and by now he hasn't learned it, not paying for his college is not going to fix him. It's too late. Well, he has a job, and we, I mean, we talk to him a lot about being financially responsible. We give him an allowance, and it's not that much.

and when his money ran out, I didn't just put money into his account and say, do I mean? Had that it. He had to get a job, which he now has a job and all that good stuff. It's just a very much different upbringing than what I had to deal with. Yeah. My parents didn't have any money, so I didn't have a choice. Yeah, right, exactly. And it wasn't like there was an option here.

So with our three, we had them at the stage they were juniors and seniors operating their own checking accounts and doing a monthly budget that they lived on money that we gave them for, you know, for normal teenage operations because we're still their parents and money that they earned. And we looked over their shoulder at that budget and helped them learn the skill of living on a set plan their junior and senior year of high school. So that when they went to college, we said, all right, we're writing a check for the tuition, we're writing a check for the dorm. In addition to that, you're going to get this small amount for campus living and that you better have a budget for that and you better maintain that. And if you want a $200 set of shoes,

this isn't going to cover it. So you're going to need to get a job while you're in college. And all three of mine at different times did do different things, either in the summers and or while they were there and had worked jobs while they were in college. So yeah, but what that was was the fulfillment of something we'd already been working on rather than the, rather than a lesson that they were learning there, they were living out the lessons that they'd already learned. Yep. And so it didn't ruin them. None of, all three of them are productive adults today. I think I know that he will be fine. And he's one of three. So I've got. two, and that's the other thought, I've got two more kids behind him, and the money only

will go so far, correct? So, um, then we need to choose, we need to budget that out. Yeah. And just say, okay, you're going to this school. I'm paying for it, so you're going to this school. We don't need to go on a college tour, because we're not going there. You don't need to traverse the country. So have you guys had those conversations thus far? He's a very smart kid. There's a very great possibility that he will get some sort of, of scholarship. Great. That's even better.

Yeah. And, you know, my husband and I are still, we max out our 401ks. We have quite a bit in our 401K. So I feel retirement-wise, we're fine. It's just this cash that, you know, is kind of set aside. Is it the smartest thing to do? How much is set aside for college specifically? Just like right now, $300,000.

That's plenty. No, not for three kids. month for him to get through. So if he goes to a state school, let's say, you might burn a third of that. Yes. That's reasonable. Correct. And then the next kid, hey, you're going to go to a state school, and we're going to pay for it, and you've got to finish in four years. You get scholarships and work while you're there. You know, nothing wrong with all of that. That's all a good plan. But the biggest problem we run into with college students or with parents in this situation, Amy, is they don't to ask the question that you're asking, and they don't use any common sense. And they go, well, my

kid told me he was going to this school that we can't afford. And I'm like, well, see, there's your problem. My kid didn't tell me stuff. I told my kid stuff. And get that backwards, right? This is what you're going to do. And because I'm paying for it. And if you want, don't want me to pay for it, then you can do a lot of stupid stuff if you want to. But if I'm paying for it, this is what we're going to do, because this is what's good for you. And it's what's in the family budget and what makes good common sense and so on. You're going to study something that is actually usable. You don't need it to get a degree in left-handed puppetry or German polka history. You'll end up being a barista. No, with a four-year degree. No, thank you. That's not the plan. And so no reason to go to

college if you're going to do that. We can save all that money and just buy a lot of coffee for you. If you're taking the family on a vacation, you guys get to decide. The kids don't get to say, well, I want to go to Paris. Or I guess we're going to pay to go to Paris. You decide as the parent if you're paying for it. That's a good point. So there's a lot of things in life. And you give the kid carte blanche. Of course, they're going to go, well, I want to go to this school across the country that's out of state tuition.

Where my girlfriend is going. This is how they picked a college. Where my girlfriend is going. And three weeks after they're there, she breaks up with him. Famous last words. Yeah. Because you followed your girlfriend, a freaking Minnesota. Give me a break.

Then she realized, oh, I got a lot of options. He wasn't the only girl to dance. That's personal, Dave. It's personal. Did that come up, George? I think so. Yeah, that happened to me. And dancing's a problem.

It's a right of passage, not the dancing part. Not the dancing. Broken up with after you chase a girl across the country. Did you really do that? I think I accidentally, I moved south, and I had a girlfriend who was from the south. So I think that was part of it. You told people God told you to do it, though, right? Oh, gosh.

Those are my least favorite words after a summer camp. She breaks up with you. God told me to go to Tennessee because she's, that's where she is. And I go, why didn't he tell me? Why was I not a problem? part of this conversation. I feel like I should get a vote too. Oh, man. That's brutal. It's got dark real quick. Oh, it did. It went downhill fast, George. But back to the caller's question, it's not virtuous to let your kid go into student debt because you don't want them to become entitled. No. They're not going to have a

better work ethic just because they went to get. You'll get back backwards there. That's going to take you a place you don't want to go. You are giving them the right kind of advantage if you do that and they already have the character to carry the way. But just involve. them and go, hey, all of us have limits. We're not in Congress. So we have limits. I'm all about practical ways to save time and mental energy, especially during the summer when life gets busy. Between vacations, camps, deliveries, travel plans, online shopping, and trying to keep everyone organized, my mental load can get pretty full. That's one of the reasons why I love delete me. Most people don't realize how many data broker sites have their information online.

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is in the background, helping me, and I don't even have to think about it. So this summer, give yourself a vacation with one less thing to manage. Get 20% off annual plans at joinselitme.com slash Ramsey. That's joinselitme.com slash Ramsey. since we started this show 35 years ago and start teaching classes and doing live events and writing books. Our goal has simply been this, to set you free from debt so that you can build wealth, so that you can be outrageously generous, retire with dignity, and change your family tree. So what is the shortest distance between where you are and wealth? What's the fastest methodology?

Is it crypto? Nope. Is it day trading? No. Is it whole life life insurance? No. And you know this if you've listened to the show more than 13 seconds. We've already would have covered.

Is it leasing a car? No. So what are the things that cause you to bill wealth? Well, getting out of debt, being on a plan, being in agreement with your spouse, getting an emergency fund in place, and systematically investing in your 401k and getting your home paid off. And those are the baby steps that we walk you through to get there in detail. Total Money Makeover book, over 20 million copies now outlines exactly how to do that. And for the last several years, every dollar, our budgeting app has been holding your hand and helping you track the progress. and follow the fastest, most efficient method to go from where you are to wealthy,

called the Ramsey Plan. It's personalized recommendations, coaching for your situation, and tracks your progress. So check out every dollar. You can download it for free in the app store or Google Play. Dylan is in Springfield, Illinois. Hey, Dylan, what's up? Hey, Dave. My question is, how do I have an intelligent conversation with my mom,

about credits and credit cards. She's a realtor. She has a 850 credit score, and she has for a long time. And she wants me to get a credit card as soon as I turn 18. And my thing is I don't want to deal with it. I don't want to have the 10-paste in my pocket. So how can I have that talk with her about credit cards? Also, I own two businesses, and I do not want it to seeping into them.

Okay. There's not an intelligent conversation you can have with her. She has made up her mind. I agree 100%. And so the best thing to do is just not have a conversation about it. And when you're 18, just don't do it. Okay. Yes, I agree with you, but... You don't have to convince her in order to not do it. Yeah. Then I'm going to have to listen to it for the rest of my life. No, you don't. I don't just, mom, I'm not going to. I've got relatives that I love dearly that vote wrong.

That's fair. And I'm not going to have a discussion with them about it because they vote wrong and they vote wrong their whole life. They have a screwed up political view. And they think I do. And so in the name of love, we don't discuss it. Yes, sir. They're not going to change.

I'm not going to change because I'm right. So then how would I, um, I, um, I, want to buy a house, I have a good down payment saved up. How would I, without her help, because obviously, if he wants me to go through the FICO score, how would I get a mortgage son? And that's not a balloon loan, because I do not want to, you know, I do not want a balloon loan. George, you've done it twice. Yeah, it's called manual underwriting. And fun fact, before the 90s, this is how all loans were underwritten. They didn't have the FICO score to make it more automated. So all you need is 12 months of on-time rental payments.

So you can do that while living at home. You can do that while living on your own. You're going to need some alternative trade lines like your utility bills. So cell phone bills, insurance bills, on-time, regular payments. That's what they're looking for. And then a strong down payment. And you're going to be in better shape than most people. A steady job for you.

Show income, your tax returns. If you're self-employed and you own two businesses, you're going to have to have two years tax returns. Two years, okay. Which you have to have with a high FICO score, too, by the way, self-employed. Yeah. So that doesn't affect it. But it's just going to take a real person looking at us. You're not even 18, so you don't even need to worry about any of this, Red.

Well, we always have this conversation, so it's always been like a back and forth. Yeah, quit having the conversation. It sounds like you're going to move out as soon as you turn 18. I'm going to try to. He doesn't want me to, but I want to. Yeah. Yeah. You know, so you have come to the correct conclusion.

She has not. And that's okay. It's all right. I got lots of friends. that I, you know, one of my friends leased a car the other day and brought it over, show it to me. How stupid is that? You know? But what did I do?

You think I'm going to trash the guy? You went, cool car, man. Nice. I went, cool car, man. It's a nice car. And I go back in the house and I go, what in the world is he thinking? But anyway. He's not looking for advice.

He's looking for some. He was looking for affirmation. A friend to go cool car. Yeah. I'm not going to get into how he. I mean, he did not ask. I quit asking questions. I quit answering questions people don't ask.

That's wisdom. You know, it's that simple. You know, you didn't ask me about who you're supposed to vote for. I won't tell you. It's okay. You know, you don't ask me about this. I'm not going to tell you. And that's the problem.

She's answering questions that weren't asked. But, yeah, so. You've decided your values. She decided hers. No one's going to change. So let's go back, though, for the sake of everybody else listening, not for Dylan, but the sake of everybody else listening, the FICO score is an algorithm. Mathematically is made up of five components, all five components.

All five components. how you interact with debt. The type of debt you have is one, how much debt you have is another, whether you pay your debt on time is another, whether you have too much debt is another, and those are the components that derive your FICO score. So 100% of the FICO score is how you interact with debt. It's an I love debt score mathematically.

And if you love debt and you continually want to go into debt, you need to build your FICO score. If you're not going to go into debt and you don't want to give the bank all your money, instead you'd rather invest it and keep it, then you don't need a FICO score. It is not a measure of your financial wisdom. It is not a measure of the growing net worth. It is not a measure of your income. My grandpa could die and leave me $2 million today.

My FICO score does not change one dime unless I use that to pay off some debt. It doesn't change a dime. It doesn't change one point. An 850 FICO score simply means you borrowed money. like you're freaking in Congress, and you pay it back, and you love the bank so much, you just play kissy face all the time with Bank of America, so you've got an 850 FICO score. So when somebody says, Dave, I have an 850 FICO score. I always look at it and go, I'm so sorry.

That costs you at least $100,000 in interest to get there because you've been paying a lot of interest all these. No, I just pay my payments on time. Well, you think the interest is, duber. It's built into your payments, stupid. It's the wrong game to play. It has nothing to do with your net worth, nothing to do with your income, where you're going financially. It just says, I have to be bad with debt. So you need to get a credit card so you can grow your FICO score.

Why? So I can borrow money on my car, so I can grow my FICO score. Why? So I can borrow money from my student loans. Why? So I can grow my FICO score so I can get a house. Why? So I can go into debt, going to debt, going to debt.

It's like a dog chasing its tail. And all of America has bought off on this freaking lie that the banking system has sold you. And so now you've got Samuel L. Jackson, an actor. saying, what's in your wallet? Money, because I'm not messing with you people. It's amazing how that works. It's amazing. So, you know, what's in my wallet and got anything to do with any of that crap?

So Dylan is actually right. Oh, and by the way, George explained you can buy a house on a mortgage without a FICO score. And everything else you should be paying cash for. And you should pay off your house as fast as you can. And if you can pay cash for your house, you should pay cash for. And then you really have no reason to ever care again. Which is kind of where I've been for like 30 years. It makes me happy that you could buy the apartment complex, but they wouldn't let you rent there.

That's pretty hilarious. Yeah, that is funny. Oh, Dave, we, your FICO score, Dave, is undeterminable. You don't have a FICO score, Dave, you can't rent here. I know I can write a check and buy the whole thing, but I can't rent there because some idiot that makes $26,000 a year has a boss in Atlanta, you know? What I wouldn't pay to watch that interaction. It's just, I mean, this is the thing. This is how dumb this system is.

It's broken. It has nothing to do with your wealth. It has everything to do with how much money you have given to a bank, a car company, a credit card company, a student loan. This is where your FICO score comes from. It's kind of a measure of how debt dumb you've been. It's your debt dumb score. Rename it. If you run a business, you already know this.

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Cindy is in Chicago. Hi, Cindy. How are you? Way better than I deserve. How are you? Just the same. What's up? Nice. I am 55 years old. I currently pay about 40% of my take home in rent, and I was wondering if it makes sense to get a mortgage that would be maybe $100 more than I'm spending right now. How much debt do you have? Zero. Thanks to you. Good for you. I didn't pay it. You did. Congratulations. How much you got saved for your down payment? Only 10,000. Oh, okay.

What do you make? I make between 62 and 67,000 a year. And what's your career trajectory look like? Is it going to increase your income? It can. I almost died a few years ago. I chose to go back to waiting tables because I love it. I'm actually making more money than I was managing restaurants,

but I can always go back in the management. And I can also pick up extra shifts. if I need some extra money. Okay. All right. Well, the reason we tell folks to have a house payment or a mortgage or a rent down around 25% of your take-home pay, not of your income, but of your take-home pay after taxes only, not 401K and not health insurance, but just after taxes, is because we want you to have the wiggle room in your budget to be able to build wealth and invest,

and to be able to save up and buy the next car, and to be able to save you. up for Christmas. But if you pinch your budget with a house payment that's a high percentage of your take-home pay, people call that house poor. Economists say you squeezed out your disposable income means the same thing, right? You just pinched yourself and you left no room. And then if something comes up, then people feel forced into debt to cover the next thing that comes up. And that's what we want to avoid. Yeah, renting right now, I know it feels like you're throwing away money, but you're buying yourself some patience and reducing your risk. Because home ownership has its own headaches, plus all the fees if you need to buy or sell. And so I don't want you to get

into this thing thinking that you're trading one bad thing for a great thing. Home ownership is great, but 43% of your take-home pay for the foreseeable future is going to put you in a buying. That's going to put you in an ounce. I've been doing that for the last five years because I'm in the Chicago suburbs and rent is about 40% of my take-home. Well, I'm just telling you, mathematically, mathematically, you know, and you have $10,000. Well, I have $10,000 for a down payment, and I have $10,000 fully funded emergency fund. Okay. How much is in the emergency fund?

$10,500. Okay. And so in four years, you came up with $20,000. So, yes. That's good. That's better than most people. But if you had had a more reasonable percentage of your income going, It's what we're pointing out.

And you can't use the argument. I live in Chicago. Math doesn't count here. Math counts in Chicago. It has to math wherever you are, whether you're in Manhattan or you're in Silicon Valley or you're in Chicago or whether you're in Woodbury, Tennessee out in the middle of nowhere. You know, the math still has to math. You've still got to figure out something to do there. And so you need to pull some different levers.

One might be, I can't live in Chicago. I'm going to move to the suburbs if home ownership is a real dream or I'm going to make more money. Those are all things you can do, but I wouldn't go about this plan. I would not sign you up for 43 percent. I agree with George. I like where you are. And I think you're doing a good job overall, especially considering how you pinched yourself here. I mean, you got this thing pretty tight.

And so I don't want to sign up the permanent version of that without seeing some kind of income increasing or, price decreasing. So I'm going to be shopping and thinking about what my, what's my commute going to look like if I go out to an area that I can actually afford. And there are areas in the Chicago land area that people can afford. That may not be where you want to be. I don't blame you for that, but that's that's there. You've got to watch out. Those Illinois property taxes will get you. Yeah. For sure. Megan's in Philadelphia. Hey, Megan, what's up? Hey, thank you so much for taking my call. So I'm wondering if I should sell my car to eliminate my car debt. I am currently $36,000 in debt.

About $10,500 of that is my car debt. $9,000 is my credit card and the rest is student loans. But I'm wondering, I drive a 2018 Jeep Wrangler, and I have 93,000 miles on it. I only bought it four years ago, and I think I can get about $18,000 to $19,000 for it. What do you make? What was that? What do you make?

I'm an on-the-road salesperson, so I drive a lot, but I should make about $98,000 this year. Okay. All right. If you really tighten down your budget and lived on beans and rice and rice and beans and quit going out to eat and quit doing any vacationing, and you just worked all the time. How fast could you clear up your 36,000, making 90 by yourself? So I, over the last few months, I've paid a little over 10,000.

Yay. My credit cards. So like $3,000 a month? Could you do that consistently? Yeah, I've been, exactly. I've been about $2,000 to $3,000 a month. Yeah, that'd be one year. So it's less than 12 months.

You'll be dead free if you keep up this pace, which means if you like the car, keep the car. Okay, because I do really like the car, but I'm like, I've been listening to you guys lately. I'm really focused on just getting rid of all this debt. Yeah, our rule of thumb is two things. One is if your car, all of your cars, anything you own vehicle with wheels and or motors or batteries, any of that stuff goes down in value, if the total of all that stuff you own that's going down in value is more than half your annual income, you have too much tied up in things that are going down. you don't have that.

The second rule of thumb we use is can you be debt-free without selling the car inside of two years? You can. You can. And then the third thing is, do you like the car? If you want to sell the car anyway because the thing sucks, that's fine. That's a different discussion. But what you're saying is, do I need to do this to be financially wise? No, you don't.

You keep the car and you pay it all off in a year. Okay, okay, because that's what I'm saying. thinking I could kickstart the, just getting into my student loans and paying them off because I would like to buy a home soon. It will kickstart it, but it will only kickstart it by about four or five months. Okay. You'll forget that payment. And you've got to have something to drive because you drive for a living.

Exactly. So you've got another problem then. So the kickstart's minimal. It's, you know, what I trade four months for this, no. I think you're doing such a good job already. $3,000 a month knocking off debt. Way to go. I would just stay on that track and just go as fast and as hard as you can go.

And where your broke friends are making fun of you like you joined a cult. Right. What's your car payment? It's $490 a month. Well, here's a challenge. If you can figure out how to spend less and make more to the tune of $490, you've essentially freed up that car payment. So that's an interesting scenario.

challenge yourself to go, what can I cut out of my budget to shave off a car payment? Costco samples for dinner. I've seen that video. That was a pretty hilarious one. That's funny. It's the affordability crisis. This guy's going to Costco to eat from the free samples. Pretty funny stuff.

Might as well get the $1.50 hot dog at that point. Yeah. Just might as well just lean into it while you can. Yeah. But you know what I love about this is her willingness to sacrifice was everything. That tells me she's actually going to get out of debt. She's going to win. Five years from today, she's going to be in a complete.

completely different place financially and emotionally than she's ever been in her life because of the trajectory she set herself on three months before she called us. Yeah. And then all we did was say, keep going, go girl, go girl. It's pretty rare we tell you not to sell the car. Usually someone's fighting on us of why they won't sell it. And that tells me it's going to be a, it's going to be a tough ride to get them out of debt. No pun intended. I'm willing to win. I'm going to pay a price to win, including selling this car that I love, driving a beater across the country just to get out of debt a little bit faster. Yeah. That's the energy you need. That's the mentality instead of like, I'm going to keep this and I'm going to keep this. I need something reliable and nice. I want to keep that. It's got

heated seats. It's got heated seats. It's got heated seats. You're killing me. And ventilated now. Even the steering wheel now is heated. I grew up where the only airbag was your mother-in-law. Oh, gosh. This show is sponsored by Better Help. Somewhere is a time when people escape, whether it's relaxing or going on vacation, we've all been told this lie that if we could just escape from it all, everything will magically work itself out. But here's a thing. A vacation won't fix what you won't face. If you're anxious, if you're burned out or you're struggling, these problems will be waiting for you when you get home. This is why I recommend talking to somebody and this is why I recommend BetterHelp. BetterHelp is online therapy that fits into

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Ramsey Show Question of the day is brought to you by Y-R-R-Fi. If you miss your private student loan payments, it can get your budget stuck in neutral. Y-Refi helps borrowers explore fixed rate refinancing and payments based on what you can afford so you can start moving forward again, no neutral forward. visit y-refi.com slash ramsi that's the letter y r e fy dot com slash ramsi might not be in all states today's question comes from david in missouri together my wife and i earn 85,000 a year and we have been using the debt snowball to pay off debt the only debts we have left are 35,000 dollars on two cars and 85,000 on our mortgage would getting a $40,000 extension on our home loan to pay off both vehicles be a good idea

we would then put every extra dollar we have toward the principal balance. Is there something I'm overlooking or does this make sense financially? Well, you're just moving the debt around. So it's going to increase your loan payment to the tune of that $40,000 balance. So no, I would not do this. It feels like you did something, but you just played a little shell game. Yeah, it's the same question of what I borrow on a home equity loan to pay off my car. Well, you didn't pay them off.

You moved your cars onto the home. It's like getting a heloc to pay off your car payments. Well, now you got a helic payment to deal with with variable rates. Here's what's interesting. The Bible says, out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. So if you, sometimes if I listen to my own words, they reveal to me how stupid I'm being. Because my words are coming out of my heart, not my brain, and I go, wait a minute. So listen to this.

I'm going to pay off my cars by not paying my house. That's not paying off your cars. You're lying to yourself. You're just going backwards. You're moving the debt. I'm going to pay off my debt by getting a home equity loan. No, you're not. You're lying to yourself.

You're going to move your debt from your credit cards to your home equity loan, which means you went and bought a stake at the rest of, restaurant on a credit card, and now you refinanced it into your home, so you're going to finance your stake over 30 years. Talk about refinancing a depreciating asset. That's long gone. David is with us in Greenville, South Carolina. Hi, David. How are you? Good. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up? So, recently divorced in the last three years, just kind of financially started. at zero again. And between child support and credit card debt that I took on in it, I am,

I cannot find any motivation to save money. It feels kind of fruitless, whether it's an expense that comes up or spending it to take my kids on a modest vacation. And I'm just, I'm trying to figure out where to start. How long were you married, David? that I had before this 10 years. Why were you divorced? She left. We both raised our kids in a Christian faith, and about two years before she left, she kind of walked away from faith, and ultimately, they thought she could find a better life

at the end of the past. And the divorce was final three years ago, right? A year and a half. exactly three years ago is when she left okay can i can i tell you what i just heard you just tell me yeah this is still so fresh for you your heart was destroyed by this she took it out of your your chest and walked all over it not only did she abandon the faith that you and her had agreed to but she abandoned the commitment that she had made to you and you are not not even close to over it.

And that's why you don't have any motivation. Your heart is still broken. And you have not had any healing this side of the divorce yet. That's what I heard. Am I wrong? I mean, I definitely don't disagree that there's healing that will be continual for a very long time. I think that I'm a little bit pragmatic in understanding, like, accepting that this isn't

what she wanted. And so that part was easier to deal with. I think the kids are the big heartbreak part for me over everything. And so I think, you know, financially, like, my money goes, and it's not making crazy. It's, you know, taking them out. So what do you make a year? I'll make about 70. Okay.

And how much credit card debt did you take on when she walked off from you? I took on all of our credit card debts so that I could essentially buy more time with my kids, which is 50K. Well, that's a lie you told yourself. The court decides how much time you get with your kids, not whether you take on credit card debt. Well, no, I mean, we negotiated. I know.

You negotiated and you lost. It wasn't because you traded 50K for your kids. That's not true. You lost the negotiation, and that's all this true. So anyway, you took all 50K in credit card debt. You got $70,000 income. You got your heart trampled on. and you feel hopeless. Of course. That's normal. That just makes you a human being. I think it's

going to take you a little while to get your fight back, to get your swagger back, to get your, I'm going to grit my teeth and I'm going to come out swinging and I'm going to knock this stuff out and I'm going to go have a great life. The second chapter of David's life is going to be a great chapter. But you're not there yet. I hear too much sadness in your voice. Do you hear it, George? Yeah. David, this is going to be really tough until you get some healing. And it would be weird if you called in and you were like, man, I'm so motivated. I'm doing great. You went through a really difficult thing. And the financial math is hard to look at too. Fifty grand and credit card debt with that interest. It is crushing to look at that. But you can start taking those little baby steps, getting on the budget, living on less than you make, even while paying the child support. It might take you longer than the first. Working extra. Working extra. What can I sell? What am I holding on to that looks like the past that I don't need to hold on to? and get this mess cleaned up. But, you know, it's going to require a level of energy that you,

you frankly don't have right now because there's just sadness in the air. And that's not a put down. It just means you're human. You've got the snot kicked out of you, man. It's like you run a car wreck and you're still in intensive care. And you're going, but I'm feeling pretty good. You know, yeah, well, not really. And so you're just doing intensive care.

So if I'm you, I'm going to sit down with a pastor with the therapist, begin to continue to talk about this, learn how to grieve this, kind of major life event. And the further it gets in your rearview mirror from a healing perspective, not a time perspective, from a healing perspective, the more energy and hope you will have towards the future. But it's real easy to just sit in the asset of this and play it over and over and over and over and over in your head like you have for the last actually two and a half years with a divorce being current or being final one and a half years ago.

So none of that's a put down, honey. It's just meeting you where you are. I understand. I'm scared for you. I hate it for you. I'm sad for you. I'm mad with you. It's a horrible process that you and these kids have gone through.

However, there is a great second chapter. And what is it when the sun comes out? His mercies are new every morning. His steadfast love is something you can count on. And I've got a plan for you. And it's not to bring you harm, but to bring you hope. And those are all true, very true things for you and for me. And so when Sharon and I went through that bankruptcy, I was the same way.

It took me about two years to quit talking about it as if it just happened 20 minutes ago. Because it took me that long. Replays in your mind. Well, I had to get the filth out of my system. You ruminate on all that was. You just sit in the filth, man. And when you go through a major life mess like that, And I'm like, and as soon as I started talking about the bankruptcy, like it was way in the distant past, that's when I started realizing, oh, okay.

That was a different day back there. It's a different version, you know. But if you're talking about it like it happened yesterday, and it was four years ago, then that tells me I'm still back there sitting in the filth. Yeah. And we all people, that's a normal process to grieve and to go through the steps of grief and a reset of your life when you go through a tragedy that was self-imposed or otherwise. In his case, otherwise, in my case, I caused it. Yeah. But it doesn't matter really where it came from.

Still, you went through the car wreck, right? You still went through the time and intensive care before you could get up and walk with a walker. And then you get up and you move a little bit of more. And whatever metaphor we want to use, right? But you just go into physical therapy and you eventually, in this case, you go into emotional therapy. And you eventually get more and more and more healing. And you, you know, you understand what part you played in it and what part they played in it. and you can't control either one.

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George Camel, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Celia is with us in Tucson. Hey, Celia, how are you? Hi, Dave. My name is Celia. Like, I'm going to sell you something. Oh, I'm sorry. I goofed it up.

I apologize. Sell you. No, it's okay. It's a really unique name. Got it. Sell you. I'm great, Dave. How are you?

Better than I deserve. How can we help? So probably going to be getting engaged next month. Long story short, I picked out my own ring and asked my boyfriend, you know, is the engagement going to be happening before September so I can kind of prepare myself? And he said yes. So it's either happening this month or next month. And I was originally, I actually just found you a couple of weeks ago, probably two or three

weeks ago. It's been less than a month. And me and my boyfriend are both on baby step two and paying off the debt. I have about $5,000 in medical debt, but combined our debt is about two, we've paid off $2,000 in the last two weeks. So we're at about $20,000 between the both of us. My question to you is I was planning on going back to school in January to become an ultrasound technologist, and I still get federal financial aid. So not necessarily student loans, but actual grants and things like that since I'm a first generation college student. And I have already been to some schooling. the program that I want to go to is 22 months. And so we were planning on not getting married until I was done with school.

The issue is, I don't know if all of my financial aid will cover the cost of this 22-month program. And so I don't know if I will need a student loan at some point. And so I don't really know what to do. I don't know if I should pay off all of this debt, which I don't think I'll be done with before the program starts in January. I'm not officially signed up for it yet. How much do you make now? But, yeah. I make about $3,000 a month.

I'm a server. And how much does he make now? How much does he make our combined income in $90,000? No, no, you're not combined yet. How much does he make? I know. Just a little more than me, about $450 a month. I mean, $4,500, $4,500 a month.

Okay. So he makes over $50K, and you make about $36. Right. And so you're going to have an $85,000 household income and you'll have no debt or very close by January. Let's say you were married by then as an example, okay, just to run the math out. and how old are you guys? I'm so sorry, can you say that one more time?

How old are you, too? Oh, I am 22 and he's 25. The issue is, though, is I honestly have a lot of medical issues, and one of those things is I have a progressive hearing loss disorder. So they expect that I may not be able to hear at all before I'm 30 is my prognosis. And you're how old again? You cut out when you told me how old you are.

26. I'm 22. I'm 22. I'm 22. So hypothetically, you will lose your hearing in 10 years. In the next eight years. Assuming the technology and medical advances don't help you with that. Okay.

Given current known knowledge. Okay. Okay. And what does a, was an MRI technology, or X-ray technologists? Yeah, ultrasound. Ultrasound. What does an ultrasound technologist make? Honestly, I should know. I would make about this, just less than a nurse. So whatever that is. I'm seeing it can range 30 to 40 bucks an hour. So you're talking 60 to 70, even 80 a year.

Okay. And what does this class call? So for the full 22-month program, it's just under $60,000. For books, everything. Everything is included in that $60,000. The one place so far that you've priced it. It's the only place in my town that offers this program. So I would have to go through this specific medical institution. What does your boyfriend do for a living?

He's a general manager of a restaurant. Mm-hmm. Okay. All right. Well, sometimes when I've got things jumbled up like this in my life, I always go back to the old, how do you eat an elephant a bite at a time thing? And I start force ranking what's most important. So if I were in your shoes or if you were my daughter and you came and sat down and said, Dad, this is what I'm facing, I would say the most important thing in this whole discussion is the two of you get me. married as soon as possible. And the second most important thing in the discussion is that you get out of debt. And the third most important thing in the discussion, and it's third, it's not first. The tail doesn't whack the dog is you go get this certification and you enter this career field. If it means you delay the start of this school one year, fine. If it means you find other ways to pay for it because you find a hospital that desperately wants to sign you to a three-year contract when you finish your training and they will pay for your training, good, go get that.

If there's another scholarship out there by an ultrasound company that makes the machine, and they want people certified, so they're pushing scholarships out there for the certifications. And that enables you to go in January, fine. But if you can't go in January because you do life well, and it means you start a year later, do life well first. Yeah, for sure. So you wouldn't, you would just completely ignore the fact that I'm still getting financial aid and that would go away when I'm married. I'm not going to build my life or in the welfare system. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm not going to do that. I would not delay this in order to get free money. that that's wrong motivation. I've never seen anyone that becomes vastly successful in their life because of a government program. I've never met anybody. And I've been walking around this earth a long time. I've never met a soul that said a government program made me prosperous.

And the chances of a Pell Grant covering 60 grand, slim to none. So that's the other part is the reality of it. It's not, do I do this for free with grants or go into state? student loan debt, it's okay, if I'm going to pause and delay. We're not going into student loan debt. We're paying cash for it. It's off the table. So that might mean it does take a year or two to save up and cash flow that.

We both work like complete, crazy people, and we pile up cash. And like a lot of people who are newly married in their early 20s, in order to hit a goal, you just tear it up, baby. You get her done. You get after it. That's what people do. That's why they give young people energy. Go get it.

That's what I would do. No, I would not plan my wife around Pell Grant system for God's sakes. Hey, what's up, guys? It's Jade Warshot. Listen, summer spending adds up so fast between vacations and road trips and camp fees and events and all the extra gas and grocery runs. Money can get tight before you know it. To really get your money under control and keep it that way, you're going to need a plan. And that's what you'll get with the every dollar budget app. It helps you track your spending, free up cash to put toward debt and savings, and it's the simplest way to make a plan for your money before the month begins. So, no more wondering

where your money's going. You're telling it where to go. Download every dollar in the app store or Google Play and start for free today. Lisa is in Phoenix. Hi, Lisa, how are you? Hi, I'm doing what? Better than I deserve. What's up? I just had a quick question on I have added a new rescue dog to my household, which has now required me to get a larger vehicle. And I need to try and figure out what is a reasonable budget. What kind of dog did you get that requires a car? I will, this makes three, but he's an American bulldog. He's 130 pounds.

Goodness gracious. And how often do you haul him? That's my size. How often do you haul him? Well, we do a lot, our family, we live on the West Coast. Our family is the East Coast Midwest. So we do a lot of road trips. and I've had him for about six months, and him and the other two dogs just don't.

There's not a room in the back of the car, so I've been having to rent larger vehicles to go visit family, like every once every couple months. Do you have children? I do not. I do not. These are basically my kids. Yeah, I can tell. I think you're the first person I ever talked to who bought a car for a dog. The dog's free.

That's the funny part. The dog is free, but the car, that's going to cost you. Yeah. So, okay. So you're thinking about buying a car. Okay. Now, so do you have the cash to pay for the car you're thinking about? Thank you. I have been saving. And how much is this car? Well, I don't, well, I was budgeting like 15 to 20, but I'm finding what he fits in with the other two and enough space for luggage. We're going to have to go, they're turning out to do, like, more close to 40, which hurts my heart to have to spend that much money. but it's, I think it's necessary, but I don't know if that's a $40,000 dog. Well, I'm so confused why it takes $40,000 to haul.

It doesn't. You can buy a $15,000 version of that same exact car that you're looking at for $40. It's called older. Anyway, so do you have the, how much do you have cash to put down or to pay cash? Cash I have like $80 in the bank. Okay. And what's your household income? I make $180.

And you're a single? Yes. Okay. And you want to buy a $40,000 car. Regardless of the reason, if you have the cash and you want to buy a $40,000 car, do you have any of the debt? That's my mortgage. Okay, good. If you're paying cash for a car and it's less than half your annual income and it's not brand new unless you're a millionaire, then you want to buy the car, buy the car.

just to fund the money you don't it's not a dumb decision i just don't want to put myself in a financial it's not a dumb decision unless it's more than half your annual income and you're not paying cash for it and you have other debt and so on now um the the thing you keep in mind and the thing that's bothering you in the back of your mind is we all know that cars go down in value like crazy and the car you're driving right now is worth what um i drive a 2013 terrain. I've had it for 10 years. What's it worth? So it's worth like five grand. Yeah. Okay. So your $40,000 purchase in a few years is probably going to be worth $5 grand. That's what cars do. So just you're turning 40 into five over time. You'll get some use out of it, some enjoyment out of it.

But you make $180, you have $80 in the bank. You can afford to turn $40 into five and not go broke and really not severely limit or screw up your life. in some way. It's not crazy. I would point out to you that your reason for doing this is sketchy. It's sketch. Okay. The fact that you want to spend $40,000 for a rescue dog to ride to your mamas in the Midwest is sketchy. Okay? You could rent a car a whole lot of times for that. And I love that you love animals. I'm an animal lover. George is an animal lover. We love our puppies. You know, me and Bella, the 12-pound bear dog, we walk every morning. I love my dog. And so all of this, we love our dogs. I'm with you on that. I get it.

But, you know, I'll be honest, I hadn't spent $40,000 on Bella. Would you recommend, so that's for like a 2022 Toyota Sequoia? I just want you to, I just want you to reframe this and go, I want the car and the dog can ride in it. It's just bothering me. Don't justify it for the dog. $40,000 to ride a rescue dog around him. The dog could sit in a horse trailer in the back.

It doesn't care. He is a horse. He's 150 pounds. She must work out. You put a saddle on that guy. Lisa's got to be ripped to be able to carry a 130 pound friend, you know, English bulldog. That's great dogs too. So we love you, kiddo.

We're just, we're laughing with you. You have the money. If it's what you want to do with your money, you've worked hard, go get the car. That's fine. I personally would have to reset the narrative in my head because I couldn't. It just I need a better car. My car is old and the spy product. And one of the things I do is I enjoyed loading the dogs up and going across the country.

That's one of the things I enjoy doing. And that's okay. But I can't. It started with I got to buy a car for this dog. No, I can't go there. That one is not. The dog needs Captain. chairs with ventilated seats. It requested that. Homeward bound. Yeah. That dog is living a good life. Run along

beside. I just don't know. That dog was eating like a king to be 130 pounds. No, they're stocky little suckers. Goodness gracious. They're good little dogs. That's impressive. I like it. That's fun. It's fun talking to you, Lisa. Thank you. Enjoy the car. Pick out something you feel good about and buy it for you. And a part of you is that you enjoy taking care of this rescue dog, and that's a good thing. That dog is living its best life with Lisa. I'll tell you that much. Got a brand new car out of the deal. Wallyley goes back to the shelter and goes, hey, guys, look what I got.

My previous owner had a much nicer car. I got to say. Oh, man. That's fun. Go back for a visit. Just wheel up in the... In the sequoia? In the sequoia.

Look what I got, guys. Oh, man. Carter is in San Antonio. Hey, Carter, how are you? I'm good. How about yourself? Better than I deserve. How can we help? Yes, sir. So I recently graduated with my master's about six months ago. And so I'm looking at my finances now, and I'm in a pickle.

I'm making some life changes to help with the repayments of loans. But I wanted to know if there's a scenario where consolidation is best. If you lower the interest rates. Yeah. What's your master's at? Yeah, because I have interest rates. health care administration. Are you working in it?

I am, yes. Good. What are you making? 105. What's your student loan debt? 147. Ooh. Yeah. You overpaid for that master's, baby.

All right, but we're there now. That also includes undergrad. And so there's a $90,000 programs for grad school. So, but still. Yeah, you overpaid for it. That's okay. You got it. It's in the rearview mirror.

Now let's get it paid off. So you're going to be living on beans and rice and get rid of that degree cost. Yeah. Tear into it. Because there is no debt consolidation where they pay you. That's true. There's only ones where you pay $147,000 and it goes away. That's what you need to concentrate on.

And so your interest rate's not your problem. Your big butt loan is your problem. And you will lose the ability to do the debt snowball, because you'll just have one giant loan, so you're not going to feel as much progress. If you kept it separated and just attacked it. What are your interest rates on these things, Carter? Ranging from 2.2% to 18.25. Okay.

You can choose. How many of them are private? Five of them are more. So $20,000 of it is private. Okay. That's probably your 18s, isn't it? Yes, correct. Yeah, well, your privates, you're probably not going to.

If you can get the privates consolidated and get rid of the 18s, that's going to be fine. But I don't want to roll that 2.2 into a 6. So you pick and choose and you leave the low interest rates alone, and you don't have to roll them all together. But you do have to separate the privates from the federally insured. And of the federally insured, you get one time to do this and make sure every single loan you do roll in and consolidate lowers the rate. Don't roll the two up. and the eight down to six. That doesn't make any sense at all.

Hey, George Camel here. So you're thinking about buying or selling your home. It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about, and all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news. You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsey's Real Estate Home Base is the place to find all of your free tools and resources

for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start to finish guides, a podcast, and even an in-depth video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love? So if you're ready to take the next steps toward your home goals, go to ramsysolutions.com slash real estate. That's ramsysolutions.com slash real estate. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt, free stage. Mark and Tegan are with us. Hey guys, how are you? Good. How are you? Better than I deserve. Welcome. Where do you live?

Bay City, Michigan. It's about two hours north of Detroit. Very cool. Welcome to Nashville. Thank you. Good to have you here. And you came to do a day. Get free scream. How much have you paid off? $140,000 in about five years. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? Started out around 65,000, combined, and now we're up to about 120,000. Good for you guys. What do y'all do for a living? I'm a court recorder for our circuit court in our Bay County area. Yeah. And I am an on-air announcer at a local news station. Great, very cool. Good for you guys. How fun. What kind of debt was the 140,000? Well, I had student loans about $61,000, and then we had the mortgage as well. Oh, $79,000 mortgage.

You have a paid off house. That's right. I'm looking at weird people. You do right. I like it. Way to go. And what's this house worth, weird people? It's around $1.20, $1.30.

Yeah. Excellent. Very cool. And what do you get in Bay City, Michigan for $120,000? Well, it's a little two-bedroom house, one bathroom, small. About a half acre, though. Yeah. So you can get a big.

bigger-sized house with less property, too. Yeah. And it wasn't, you know, the nicest house on the block, but Mark's pretty handy and his family's handy as well. So we were able to fix it up and making a nice home. Yeah. How long have you been married? Just shy of five years.

Okay. So you bought it and started the process of paying off the student loans and paying off the house. Yeah. Bought a modest home with some fix-up. Get your foot in the door. And now it's 100% paid for. You're 100% dead free. Yes.

And you're how old? 27. Yep. 27. And you make $120,000,000 a year. Yeah. So all of you people out there who say there's an affordability crisis that you'll never be able to buy a house in America today. Mark and Tegan said, hold my beer.

So look at what they did. That's pretty stinking incredible, y'all. I'm proud of you. Thank you. Very cool. Very cool. So you're dating and talking about this apparently because it starts immediately after you're married. Tell us the story.

Yeah, so basically around the time that we got engaged, I was graduating from college. and I had the student loans, you know, on my shoulder. And I was like, okay, so I'm going to have to start working on paying these off. And we started to make a plan. I didn't really know what to do. I was really stressed about it, actually. And so I felt like I was just going to be carrying these with me for a really long time and not knowing where to start.

I was like, well, having you heard, she was upset. We were in the car. We were just driving along one day, and she's pretty upset about it. And I was like, Tegan, haven't you ever heard of Dave Ramsey? and she's like, yeah. I've heard of them, but I've never listened to them. Yeah, and I grew up listening to your show on our local radio station with my dad whenever we'd be working. So I was like, oh, well, you got 60,000, that's nothing.

We could pay that off in no time. I've heard people on this show that have paid off way more than that. I've heard way worse. Yeah, yeah. I was like, this is nothing, literally. Yeah, it definitely did. You're easily worth that. Yes.

Right, right. Most definitely. And so we started making a plan to hopefully get them paid off in two years, and we ended up doing that around 13 months, just over a year. Yeah, just barely over a year. Yeah. Yeah, had the 60 grand. So then we kind of slowed down to pay the house off. And then the last year we were kind of like, what are we doing? So we're like, let's just pay this off. You know, we literally, you know, why don't we do it? Turned it up to 11 at the end there. Exactly. And we were actually cash flowing, him getting a bachelor's degree as well while we were working on the house.

Yep, so I got a bachelor's on personal finance now. And I work at a community college, so that helped me along the way. I got a discount for the associate's degree stuff. So how many 27-year-old friends have a paid-for-house? None. None. None. We're fortunate. Hard to not jump up and down and make a big deal about it, but it's a good idea. Did your friends know about this? Was it a kind of an open? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. We were very open about it, especially when I was paying off my student loans, because we had to say no to a lot of things, you know, being able to go out to dinner, like, you know, All the fun events cost money. And so we had to say no to things along the way.

And I think our friends were really aware of it, but they were really supportive. And so it would be coming over to our house and making dinner at our house and, you know, they'd bring a dessert, you know, that kind of thing to be able to still hang out with everybody and make it happen. Saving everybody money, money, you know. Very old school. We're going to eat it home together. Yeah. Have a community. Have a potluck.

Oh, my gosh. I love it. Yeah. Very old school. Good stuff. Way to go, you guys. I'm proud of you. Thank you.

Thank you. Your parents had to be just jumping up down sharing you on. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Was there anybody that looked at you all and said you're crazy? Oh, yeah. Yeah. We had a low interest rate on that mortgage, so we had quite a few.

So everyone went, are you kidding me, dude? You can invest that instead of paying down your mortgage. Yeah. Oh, I can hear them now. Yeah. They all sound like that for some reason. Yeah. It's always a dude.

It's always a dude. I was through that about you. What was your rate? 2.6. Oh, my goodness. What are you going to do now? you have a zero percent rate with no payment. I don't know.

I kind of liked having that payment at the first of the month, you know. Yeah, it was, oh, yeah. You missed it? Yeah, no. Oh, this is the house. That's a great house. If you're watching on YouTube or Spotify, you can check it out. Brick home.

Yeah, yeah. Like I said, about half acre of property. So what, 1960s vintage probably? Yeah. Yep, yep, 61. Yeah, that's what looks like construction, yeah. Very cool. Solid home.

Yeah, that's a great place to start. And keep a picture of that, show your grandkids and go, that's where it all started. And now you're multimillionaire. Absolutely. Yeah, that's very cool. This is where Grandpa and Grandma started this thing. And back in the day, back in on 26, we paid it off.

Yep. I like it. Way to go, you guys. Thank you. How's it feel to be 100% free five years into marriage? Very good. Indescribable. Very good.

Like when we didn't have the payment for the first month, we were both just kind of like, like, oh, this is so weird. Like, we don't have the plan for it. Yeah. Yeah. And it feels great to like buy name brand foods at the grocery store and not feel guilty going out, you know. Fraying up that space on the budget was really nice because we find that we save so much

quicker too, you know, so we can plan for things in the future because we're not paying for things in the past. And that's just. Amen. That'll preach. That's a T-shirt right there. Yes. I like it.

So good stuff. All right. What's the secret to five years of marriage being this happy and having your house paid off and everything? What do you tell people? How did you do that? I didn't say anything. We get along so well, but I feel like we both have patience for each other to be able to listen and hear each other out.

And so when we're making plans for things, we can really talk things through. And that's really helpful. She's mostly, like, right all the time, as they say. So whenever I have these big, bright ideas that are off the path, she'd kind of guide me back in. Because that was how it went a lot of the times. I'm the spender. She's the saver. So we have that relationship.

And a lot of it's just keeping your eyes on your goals and not looking at what other people have. We don't care about their goal. It's not going to help me any. You know, just keep an eye on what you have going on and on your goals in general because you don't realize what's going on. It happens so fast, you know. Yeah. Yeah.

So you stayed out of the restaurants and you stayed out of trips. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You bought a modest home that you could pay for very, very quickly. Yep. And that was your stepping stone. Now you'll be able to do whatever you want to do. Yeah.

And so there was a level of sacrificing to win in your, your story. A whole lot of what y'all did was just, we're going to not do this so we can do this later. We're not going to do this so we can do this later. It's live like no one else so that later you can live and you did it. You really did do that. Yeah. Yeah, we can see it in your story. That's very, very cool. I'm proud of you. Thank you. Good stuff. Very good. That's a power. That's a power couple right there. Most people live in mediocrity for 50 years because they're unwilling to sacrifice for five. And you guys did the opposite. You went, what if we sacrifice for five to the next 50 is wide open? all the options in the world.

So proud of you guys. Thank you. That's cool. Mark and Tegan, Bay City, Michigan, 140,000 paid off. By the way, that's the house and everything. 27 years old with a paid-for house. Not only did they purchase a home, but they paid for it. Did all of this in the first five years of marriage, making 65 to 120.

Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're dead free! That's true love right there. That's as good as it gets, man. They're like a joy bomb. It's so fun to talk to.

Look, that. They doubled their income. They bought a modest house. Median home prices, $420,000. Everyone's up in arms. They went, all right, we don't have to buy the median home. There's homes out there we can afford. They bought a house that's worth $120 today.

Yeah. It wasn't worth that when they bought it. They fixed it up. Pretty incredible. Interesting. Hmm. Things that make you go? There's hope.

Hmm. Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free. to use. Go to Ramsey Solutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's Ramsey Solutions.com.

Our scripture today, Luke 631, however you wish to be treated by others is how you should treat everyone else. Duke Ellington said, a problem is a chance for you to do your best. Well, there we go. Folks, if you're buying or selling a home and you're thinking about buying real estate, the average first-time home buyer is paying $199,000 for their home right now. That's the average in America. That includes a million dollars in California, and that includes $60,000 in Bay City, Michigan. So you can kind of figure those in, and that's how you get to $199. If you wanted a trusted real estate agent in your corner that knows their stuff, if you're selling or buying, that's a good idea, by the way.

Not someone that got their license three weeks ago and then just said, oh, remember we're friends. No, that's not what you need. You need somebody. It's an actual professional that does like a lot of transactions and knows what the flip they're doing. A Ramsey trusted agent that we have vetted that we've done the due diligence on. You can find them for free at ramsysolutions.com slash agent. Jeff's in Sacramento, California. Hi, Jeff.

How are you? I'm good, Dave. Thanks so much for taking my call. Sure. What's up? Yeah, so about 10 years ago, I had my own handyman business. My wife and I had a couple kids at the time. And it was struggling.

We were struggling to make ends meet month to month. Got always provided, but it was hard to feel like I could get ahead with that. And at that time, my father-in-law was actually a piano tuner, a successful one. And since I grew up in a very musical family, I decided to learn the trade and do it on the side. And so I started tuning pianos on the side just to bring in a little extra each month. And it actually grew fast. And before long, it became a full-time thing for me, which I'm super thankful for. Fast forward 10 years, it's turned into a very successful business.

But here's my struggle. When people ask me what I do for a living now, I have this embarrassment to say that I tune pianos. I don't say it with much confidence. I'm very proud of what I do. Do you make a good living? I make around 200 to 230 a year. Who gives a crap what people think? Yeah.

You're like a quarter million dollars a year. There's a lot of lawyers that don't make that. And they should be ashamed. Not you. Yes, I'm very proud of it. I think I have this stereotype of what Tuners are. in my head, I remember the countertuner coming to our house. And I, and I, um, what's the stereotype?

That they're broke? Yeah, yeah. They're not, uh, they're not very successful. Yeah. And it's still, still that way. A lot of them, most of them, you know, around 40s, six. You know, in Nashville, you know, in Nashville, Georgia and I live here, and it's like, how do you get the next country music stars attention?

Uh, waiter. Yeah. It's a stereotype, right? I mean, everybody in Nashville sings except me. I'm the only one here that doesn't sing. And Rachel. Everyone else sing. I've heard Rachel try.

She's getting your DNA. Rachel does not sing. Please, God, don't let Rachel sing. But, um... So is this in your head, Jeff? There's a tune and a bucket and something. No, the point is that stereotype is right. Stereotypes based on something. I mean, if you live in L.A., how do you get the next actor's attention?

A waiter, right? I mean, what are you doing? I work. I'm, I'm an extra on a commercial. What does that even mean? And, but yeah, it means your weight tables is what it means. And there's nothing wrong with that. You're doing that to get your career started.

If that's, you're doing that. you. I'm not making fun of you. I'm just making fun of you. It's a stereotype. And that's where that comes from. It's a generalization. So the difference is, is you're highly successful. I don't know. I don't know how to tell you. I'm not ashamed at all for you. I think you're awesome. So I don't want you to be. I don't know how to defend you. When people ask what I do, and I have to say YouTuber, you know, there's a stereotype there. They don't know that it's popular. They don't care. You have a cat that chases lasers? Or a guy that, you know, sells Pokemon cards and he makes $300,000 a year, but you go, wow, you sell Pokemon cards.

So people are always going to have opinions. And these people probably aren't in your circle, right? The people that actually care that you love probably are so proud of you and couldn't give a rip what you do. You're more than that. So, yeah, I don't know how to teach you to reframe it if it were me. Because I get where you're coming from, but I'm proud of you that you killed it. You obviously have business acumen to go with your ability, go with your ability to tune pianos.

Pretty incredible. So maybe you reframe it by, okay, here's how I did it when I went broke. I filed bankruptcy because I was stupid and went into debt. There's a certain amount of shame that goes with that, a stereotype that goes with that. And so what I had to reframe was, okay, who, cares. The people that care don't care in your case, okay, and in my case. The people that care about me don't care if I went bankrupt. They care about me and my family. My kids don't care. My grandkids now don't care. My wife doesn't care. The people that are all upset about it

aren't people that I care about. And so I had to reset. Who do I need? I need to impress the right people and not be worried about impressing the wrong people. Who gets a vote in this? And I can guarantee you that your father-in-law taught you the trade, right? That's right. He's proud of you, which by definition means his daughter, your wife is.

Your kids are eating really well. you've built an unusually high paying. I would have never guessed you were going to tell me that much money on income because of the stereotype. Right. So, you know, among piano tuners, you are the elite. Well, I feel like that's the part that I feel like I have to share with people when I say I'm a piano tuner.

I want to follow it up with, but just so you know, I make really good money. Yeah, that's fine. I'm probably the most highly paid piano tuner you'll ever meet. Now, if you said I run a piano tuning business, does that have a different ring to it, or I'm a multi-generational piano tuning business? Yeah, that's pretty cool. Now I'm interested. Yeah. But there's nothing wrong with it. If you just said, I tune pianos for a living. That's incredible. Something you love to do, you get paid well to do it. I just see, I mean, I get it. You're standing around at some party and you're holding a glass. Everybody's got a glass. What do you do? What do you do? I'm an engineer.

What do you do? It's hard for me to explain what I do to this day. I still don't know what you do. I still can't decide if I'm an author or I'm a, I was a radio guy for a while and I still am. Now I'm a YouTuber to YouTuber. I'm an old YouTuber. I think CEO of Ramsey Slu, that's a pretty cool title. There we go. I'm the CEO of Ramesis Solution. You're an entrepreneur.

That's what all the kids say these days. I am. I am, actually, but nobody gives a rip. It's hilarious. I'll always care. I'll always care about you. No matter what you do, I'll be there. Thank you, George.

And you're a great, you know, you taught me how to water ski. Oh, there we go. I've got a fallback. Add that to your LinkedIn resume. The Dave Ramsey Waterski class. If you can teach me how to do that, you should win a Nobel Peace Prize. I've taught people that didn't think they could float how to do that, man. That's, yeah, that's a story front of the day.

It just goes to show that people put a lot of stake into their work and their identity. I think it's an interesting question. Yeah, no matter what it was, piano tuner, whatever. You know, if you're a, you work. Honestly, when I hear in Nashville that you're a musician, I automatically assume that you're an unsuccessful. Oh, unsuccessful. I automatically assume that. Wow.

And, you know, like if I hear, what do you do? I'm a songwriter. Okay. You and everybody else, have you written anything I might have heard of? You know, now I'm starting to figure out if you really are making a living. I'm an actor. Have I seen your work? Yeah.

Have I seen your work? That's good, George. I like that. Have you seen the Campbell Soup commercial? I was in that, you know. But it's, you never know. So it's interesting. It really, it's a social experiment to see what people assume based on your field. Yeah, but I think it goes back to what Deloney talks about all the time. Who are you giving a vote? And, you know, it's almost humorous that I don't want you to figure it out. Yep. You know, if I'm him.

Well, eventually, I'm saying at a party going, I make three times what you do in my. head. You see the house he had? Look at that car. He's a piano tuner? Who no? How does he? He must have a trust fund. No, he's just really good at his job. Like the what's the movie about the hitman? He said, I'm a house painter. Oh, that's good. Yeah, that's good, yeah. Not true about the piano tunner, though, I'm just saying. That puts this hour the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.