The Ramsey Show - Common Sense Beats Clever Money Hacks

Episode Date: August 5, 2026

📈 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Are you on track with the Baby Steps? Get a Free Personalized Plan.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ❓ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Have a money question? Ask Ramsey is here to help.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Dave Ramsey and George Kamel answer your questions and discuss: “We’re in $187,000 of debt and living paycheck-to-paycheck. How do we get out of this?” “Our non-profit cat café has been losing money since we opened. Should we continue to shoulder these losses?” “How do I prepare financially to pay for a dowry and a big traditional wedding?” “My fiancée’s parents just told her they want her to pay the Parent PLUS loan. Are we obligated to pay it?” “Our house is in a flood zone and we are struggling to sell it.” Next Steps: 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 weekdays from 2–5 p.m. ET 📩 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Email Dave On-Air With Your Questions on Debt and Finance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 💵 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ❤️‍🩹 ⁠Get trusted insurance coverage that fits your budget 🎟️ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Get your ticket for Investing Essentials today!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Connect With Our Sponsors: Go to⁠⁠ Angel Studios⁠⁠ to discover entertainment you can feel good about. Get 10% off your first month of⁠⁠ BetterHel⁠⁠p Go to ⁠⁠Boost Mobile⁠⁠ to switch today! If you want your car to keep going and going, trust ⁠⁠Christian Brothers Automotive⁠⁠. Find a local shop and get an exclusive Ramsey discount of 10% (up to $250) off New members can receive a 50% credit toward their first month of membership. Go to⁠⁠ Christian Healthcare Ministries⁠⁠ and use promo code RAMSEY. Get started today with ⁠⁠Churchill Mortgage⁠⁠. Equal Housing Lender • NMLS ID 1591 • ⁠⁠NMLSConsumerAccess.org⁠⁠. Churchill Certified Homebuyer program is available for qualifying borrowers and select loan types only. Ramsey Audience offer of up to a $500 credit applied at closing toward fees incurred for appraisals for a limited time and may be discontinued without notice.  Get 20% off when you join ⁠⁠DeleteMe⁠⁠ Go to⁠⁠ FAIRWINDS Credit Union⁠⁠ for an exclusive account bundle! Debt collectors hassling you? Take back control of your life at ⁠⁠Guardian Litigation Group⁠⁠ Find top health insurance plans at ⁠⁠Health Trust Financial⁠⁠ Visit ⁠⁠Helix Sleep⁠⁠ for special offers! Use code RAMSEY to save 20% at ⁠⁠Mama Bear Legal Forms⁠⁠ Visit⁠⁠ NetSuite⁠⁠ today to learn more. Try ⁠⁠Quo⁠⁠ for free, plus get 20% off your first six months. Quo: no missed calls, no missed customers. Sign up for your $1.00/month trial at ⁠⁠Shopify⁠⁠. Get started at ⁠⁠World News⁠⁠ OR use promo code RAMSEY for a 30-day free trial. Get started with ⁠⁠YRefy⁠⁠ or call 844-2-RAMSEY Visit⁠⁠ Zander Insurance⁠⁠ or call 1-800-356-4282 for your free instant quote today!  Try ⁠⁠ZipRecruiter⁠⁠ for free today. Explore more from Ramsey Network: 💸 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Ramsey Show Highlights⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 🧠 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Dr. John Delony Show⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 🍸 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Smart Money Happy Hour⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 💰 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠George Kamel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 📈 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠EntreLeadership⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Brought to you by the Every Dollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studios, this is The Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, George Campbell, number one best-selling author, Ramsey Personality,

is my co-host today. The phone number here is 8255-225. The call is free, and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. Michelle is with us in Austin, Texas. Hi, Michelle. How are you? I'm broke. How are you doing? Appreciate the honesty.

There we go. Straight to it, baby. Here we go. Oh, my gosh. I love it. How can we help? Okay, so single mom, and I've been living paycheck to paycheck my whole life, started listening to your show and realized there is this the world. I just have to figure out, you know, there is hope, shall I say. I just have to figure out the solution. So my question is, should I go to some small school, like real estate school or aesthetician school to try to better my situation? What are you doing now? I'm in sales. I've been in sales my whole life. What are you selling? Well, I'm selling forklift batteries for forklifts,

But I just started with the company, and it's going to take me about a year to ramp up and start making commission. And when you ramp up and start making commissions, what are you projecting that you'll be making? Close around 85,000 to 100,000 a year. Okay. And what's wrong with that? Well, right now I'm making $65,000 a year. and when I, I mean, my rent went through and I'm negative a couple of hundred dollars. Okay.

So you've got a side hustle issue until you get your commissions going, not a career crisis. Okay. So, I mean, estheticians don't make $85,000 a year, most of them. So no, I wouldn't go that direction. Real estate agents can make well in excess of $85,000. Most of them don't. but most of them don't sell a lot of houses either. So, I mean, if you're going to get in the real estate business, you're going to sell a lot of houses.

And it could take a while before you see some meaningful income. Yeah, again, you're starting again. It'll be six months probably with nothing. Right. So you've got some kind of side hustle or you start real estate part-time while you're selling forklift batteries. I don't know. But which wouldn't be a bad idea. And you don't really have to go to real estate school to pass a real estate test in Texas.

unless they require a pre-licensing. They probably do a pre-licensing class, but it's just one class or something, isn't it? There's six classes that I would need to take. I actually... In order to sit for the license? It's one test, and yes, six courses. Principles, one, two.

But you have to... All that's a prerequisite for taking the test. I believe so. Okay. I've done principles one and two before. I just ended up having a kid and couldn't finish. I don't mind you, you know, let's take those classes while we're doing this and while we're working a side hustle to make sure the rent. Let's first cover the rent and stay in the current job.

And then once you've got that going, then if you want to go ahead and take the test, take the minimum number of classes necessary to take the test. Don't go, you know, getting a whole bunch of certifications in the real estate world until you've sold some real estate. So it's not necessary. If you find a broker that will help you get, that will sponsor you as your affiliate broker's license, pass the prerequisite classes, then take the test and start selling part-time as your side hustle. Once you've got the battery business up to income, then that's probably a thing. And then if you can get the real estate business to take off and it passes the Forklift Battery Business, then you drop the Forklift Battery Business, right?

Okay. But I don't, I don't, today's problem is rent, and that's not solved by anything we're talking about, except a side hustle. There's a long tail on this. So how much debt do you have? My car would be my only debt. Well, I do have about $1,500 in dental work. I just had done that I'm financing zero interest.

And then my car, I owe $19,000 on it. Okay. Good for you. And that's it. And what's your rent every month? My rent's $1,500 a month. Okay. I'm going to look at your budget and do a detailed every dollar budget if I'm you

and see what I can cut. And then is there any chance there's anything at the Forklift business that you can do to create some extra income there while you're waiting on your commissions to come in without having to do some other side hustle? No, there's nothing. Okay. It's just, yeah. I mean, I'm out there hunting my own, my leads, so.

Okay, just takes a bit. You're just knocking doors, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Getting a lot of rejection, yeah. Okay. Yeah. That's, it takes a minute to get, takes a minute to get the book of business built. Yeah.

So what can you sell, because you're good at selling, and I can kind of tell from talking to you. I've trained sales people my whole life. I think you're really good at it. You carry yourself very well. So what could you sell as a part-time side hustle that would make bank? Car sales on the weekend? What kind of sales?

Car. Oh, never thought about that. They make money. Okay. The used lots the quickest. Okay. And, yeah, if you can find a dealer that will let you work weekends and maybe some evenings or something, depending on what the hours, the dealerships are running, might take a minute to get that going, too,

but you got walk-ups there. Some of the leads, sometimes it's fish in a barrel, right? Yes, yes. So, I don't know, something like that. I'm just making this up. I'm spitt-balling with you right here. But I think your skill of selling is more valuable. I don't want you doing Uber Eats.

How'd you know? Well, I want you doing it. I mean, if you have to to make rent, do it, right? You've been doing what it took to make it for a long time. You're a single mom. But I don't want you to just fall into the normal default job. What is it? You can use your skill set and your history and your experience.

What were you selling before you were selling batteries, you know, that you could go back to and work part-time and work their evening leads that nobody else wants to work? whatever. I don't care what it is. As long as it's moral and you believe in the product, you know, I don't know. Salespeople can do a lot of different things because that's a skill of being able to interact with people and having high emotional intelligence and it just gives you the ability to do a lot of different things. And we actually have a great side hustle quiz, Michelle. You can take that help guide you on this, Ramsey Solutions.com slash side hustle. And that'll help you at least get some ideas and get going on this. But I like the idea of if you can make double or triple your hourly rate, instead of Uber Eats, you're doing something you have skills in, consulting, sales. That's a way better

trade for your time. 30 years ago, one of my best friends at the time was a career counselor. And he always said, gather a bouquet of flowers from those that are within reach. Oh. So what is it you automatically can do that you can reach, right? That's a good metaphor. Hey, guys, George here. I love the movies Angel Makes because they always deliver gray entertainment. And I want to tell you about their newest movie coming out August 14th, The Brink of War. It's a historical drama about the 1986 summit in Iceland, when President Reagan and Soviet leader Gorbachev faced each other in the height of the Cold War with the fate of the world on the line. It's got Jeff Daniels in it, Jared Harris, J.K. Simmons, and the cast alone

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Grace is in Atlanta. Hi, Grace. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, thank you. How can we help? So trying to come up with some good checks and balance questions to ask ourselves to ensure a potential decision we're making is a good financial one, not just emotional one. Good. I like that. The fact you're asking the question tells me you're going to be okay. Yeah, you're probably okay, but let's play with the concept for a minute because I think it's awesome. think. Yeah, I mean, I got a framework for spending. Is this about a big spending decision? Potential home purchase. Oh, okay. Well, the parameters we have will help you with this. So walk us

through what you're working with. So we are currently baby step seven. With our home paid off, this home, based off what we would be selling our home for, ideally, we would, after emptying a non-retirement brokerage account to help with the down payment, we'd only be carrying a about a $40, $50,000 mortgage in theory. Mm-hmm. Which you would pay off how fast? We're thinking less than two years. What's your household income?

My husband's income is $140,000, and he usually gets between $20,000 and bonuses. So we just said any bonus that comes in month's sub payment. Okay. How old are you? 32 and 34. What's the current home worth? 400. What's the new home worth?

The offer we would consider is 535. And what's in the brokerage? It will be just under 100. Yeah, we have between two different brokerage accounts, we'd be able to, and part from just general savings, not emergency funds, we'd be able to put together about 150. but we want to be able to give ourselves some cushion again just we have to put in a fence and have some expenses related to the new home.

The other big factor is I'm due in three weeks with our second child. Oh, how long? And that's where the emotions start playing in. Yeah, for real. How long have you been debt-free? We paid up our home. I actually talked to you about it in 2024 a month before our first born was born. Okay. So you have a reputation of buying houses when you're pregnant. Okay.

I feel like that's just how it goes. We paid off the house. You did that, George. And I counseled you against it. Every time we move, it's like the worst possible time. But that's how it goes. What's driving the urgency for this? Well, why now? So we had always said we'd probably move within the next three years.

Nothing super said on that. And I know it's an ick for George, but I don't want to say it. But, like, it's one of the things this house popped up. I'm not going to say I have this amazing opportunity. Oh, she knows my trigger word is we have an opportunity. Yeah, no, I appreciate that. I listen a lot. The current owner of the other house has already moved out of state and is carrying two mortgages.

and the listing agent unprompted is who told us he is very negotiable on the price and that's where we're thinking we can get that price down to the 535. Do you know what the two mortgages total? What his two mortgages tell? Yes. Find out. That's your first offer. Okay.

Get him out whole. That's it. Okay. I know he, when I look at the selling records, he bought the house for $3.20. I don't care what he bought it for. I care what he sold it for. I want to sell it. I don't want to buy it.

Have you had comps run by your real estate agent to find out what this house is actually worth? Yes. And he has it currently listed at $5.75. Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. Here's the thing. I'm going to lowball this guy.

When the agent, when the agent unprompted says he's desperate, I'm going to just, I'm going to hit him at his mortgage base and get him at say, look, I can set you free, man. I can set you free. You got, you know, you got no walking money, but you're set free. And that's where we're going to start on this. And I'm really good at buying real estate at a deal. I'll just tell you. So anyway, that's the first thing. Now, the answer to your original question is, what is the framework? You obviously have listened to a lot to this show. And you know that we tell people not to take out more than a 15-year fixed-rate mortgage is more than a fourth of your take-home pay and have at least a good 20% down payment. If at all possible to avoid PMI, you've definitely destroyed all of that. You're going like 90% down. You're like, you're going to come. You're going to. You're going to. You're going to come. You're completely way over the top on that. The only thing that gives me any pause at all is, number one, I have to say anytime I, it's very rare for me to run into someone who finally got completely debt-free that wants to go back into debt. I don't.

I know, but you're about to, and that's weird. Okay, I'm going to say that out loud. And the other thing that's weird is you're doing all this while you're pregnant and you're going to move while you're pregnant. And I just, you know, having. We are very maxed on space at our current home. Yeah, well, so what? So will that moving truck?

It'll be maxed on space. But this is going to be a little bit maxed on space and buy a house nine months after the child's born. You probably got all the cash you need and you pay cash for the same house. Yeah. But if you said, hey, we're going to take on the 40 grand mortgage and pay it off in six months, that's different. We're not going to get that. But if it's going to take you years to pay off, that's the part that worries me. Well, she said they paid off in two years on average,

depending on the bonuses, right? Ideally, quicker. It's just the bonuses, again, depend on the bonus. One or two years. None of that is dumb. You're all way over in the smart column. You're all fine.

I can't, I can tell you that Sharon Ramsey would not move while she's pregnant. That would not be something she would do. Now, Whitney did it. Luckily, you won't have to lift the finger than me. You won't have to do any of them moving. That's the good news. Yeah, well. No, that's part of the budget is.

get movers. You'll be yelling at everyone else. Yeah. And if I can do the whole, do the same exact deal a year from now and pay cash, I'm going to wait a year just because I don't want to be in debt. And we said even six months from now, yeah, we said even six months from now, yeah, if his house popped up. We wouldn't have a hesitation. Yeah. Just because I don't want to be in debt. It's that simple. And it's like, you know, $535,000 houses in Atlanta or everywhere. And so, um, But if you want to say, okay, Lord, if we can get it at this price, we'll lay a fleece out there,

then we're going to think that we're going to call that God's saying to do it, and we're going to put a low ball price on it, find out what the guys' two mortgages are. Maybe it's $500. And maybe you've got no mortgage. You scrape it all together or you dip down a little deeper into the savings than you want to and you wait on the fence a minute. I don't know. Whatever it is, right? You just kind of figure it out.

But at our house, we don't borrow money. So we would not have been able to do your deal. We would have had to figure out some other way to either buy it at a deal or wait on a deal. another deal to pop up an opportunity, all that. Yeah, the goal is just how quickly can we get back to Baby Step 7 if we're going to do this move. Yeah, yeah. And there's nothing we're discussing with you that's dumb. Okay, you're very smart.

You've done a great job. You guys are amazing. Congratulations. You're in the top 1% smart people out there. Excellent job. I'm just thinking with you that the first thing I want to do is avoid that. And if not, how quick can I get out of it? and what are some techniques to do that? A lower price point would help.

Waiting would help, and that would probably involve a different house and so on. But I'm truthfully going to have my real estate agent pull the mortgage deeds and figure out what the balances are on these things, or call the agent who's been so forthcoming and say, okay, what are the balances on those two mortgages? And then go, that's our offer. and let him write some checks to cover his fees and stuff, come out of pocket a little bit, and you get him out of Dodge. He's in trouble. You got the upper hand. I've heard you say this, Dave, the person with the most information, options, and patience wins. Exactly. And you're in that spot. The more patient you can be,

the more options you have, the more information you have about the mortgages and where they're at. That was an eight-hour negotiation class in two sentences right there. I try to be brief. Do it again. Do it again. The person with the most options, information, and patients always win. Yeah. And that's you in this. There's more than one house. Gather all the information about the deal you're doing.

Know more about it than they know about it. And then be willing to walk away, have patience. Same goes for a car or literally anything else. Don't get married. But my last house, Dave, I lowballed by 80 grand and they took it first try because I ran the numbers. Which means you should have gone lower. Exactly. My real estate agent said you're going to offend them.

Apparently not. Not enough. I should have offended them a little more. I could have done a little more damage. Back to school time means you're depending on your vehicles more than ever. Whether you're driving kids to school, helping one move into a dorm, or just managing a busy fall schedule. The last thing you need is your car to break down and throw your plans off track. That's why I recommend a Christian Brothers automotive.

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10% off, up to a $250 value. See store for details. Attention all nerds. I'm listening. Attention all nerds. I've been summoned. Nerd warning. George and I are going to do the nerd event. It's called Investing Essentials. It's Dave Ramsey's playbook on investing. What I personally do, what I don't do and why. and details on real estate purchases, how I analyze all of that, how I select mutual funds. And we're going to go into a bunch of legacy stuff, like how to, you know, some basics in estate planning and how to hand wealth off without ruining your kids and all of the relational pieces. And I got to you, if you're having trouble sleeping, sign up for this. We will put you to sleep.

Unless you're a nerd, in which case you will be sitting on the edge of your seat. You'll be taking notes. And you will be run out of ink with your pen. You will just be taking notes everywhere. It's so dense. It's so full. It's so overwhelming. It's so boiling over with nerd stuff.

You are absolutely going to love it. I think I'm not. I think I don't think I sold it there. I don't think I sold a single ticket. Well, it's September 1st and 2nd. Again, it's virtual. You can join from anywhere. And it's about two plus hours both nights.

So you're getting four plus hours of content of stuff we've never really talked about at length with the formulas and super. tactical pieces. Based on going over the notes the other day with you and the gang, I'm thinking if we get out in two and a half hours each night, we're going to be doing good. You guys, we just chalk this thing full. It's everything. So you're going to love it. And you can watch the replay too. So if you go on, I need to watch this again. I need to take notes. We're going to give you all that access to a replay. There's different tiers depending on how long you want the replay for. You'll even get Dave's notes along with it with one of the tiers. You get the slide deck as well.

The slide deck alone. will put you to sleep. Listen. Just put it on your TV and you'll just go, you'll just be gone, just like that. And the tickets start at $199. And if you aren't at least $200 bucks richer over the course of your life

from watching this stuff, then that's on you. That's all I'm going to say. Then you really aren't a nerd and you should not have been here. You should not have attended. It's one of our favorite events we do. And the people love when Dave goes deep

as much as Dave likes to joke that nobody wants to hear this stuff. Well, we've only done it a couple times, right? This is like the third time. We do it like once a year. Yeah, but I mean, just a couple times. Yeah. And a lot of you come.

There's a lot of nerds that people want to know. And even if you're not a nerd, but you aspire to be a... Aspiring nerds are welcome. Aspiring nerds are welcome. We're going to answer your questions as well. Insomniax are welcome. I'm going to use it for bedtime, for my toddler. I promise.

Kid will sleep all night. Absolutely. $199. It's a virtual event. It's September 1 and 2. You can click the link right now and go there in the show notes, or you can go to RamseySolutions.com slash events, all seriousness aside. That's absolutely going to be incredible. You will be blown away.

I'm so excited to teach this stuff because I've had trouble sleeping. All right. Linda's in Boston. Hey, Linda, what's up? Hi. I'm good. How are you guys? Better than we deserve.

How can we help? I was laid off, and I don't know how long it will take me to find a job. So my question is... When did you get laid off? Two weeks ago. Okay. How's the job hunt coming? It's interesting.

What were you making before? I was making a little over 100,000. Doing what? I was in sales or business analyst. Were you a business analyst or were you selling? I was in sales operations. I support the sales organization. Okay.

Wow. Why did you get laid off? Um, the org restructure. Mm, okay. Was there severance? There is. How much? 90.

Oh, awesome. Okay. Now, I'm sorry, but that helps us to go. And the core of your question is what then? So, because I don't know how long it will take me to find a job, I'm curious if I should just sell my existing home and downsize and use whatever profit from the selling allows to buy something smaller cash. Absolutely not.

No. That's a drastic measure for a temporary problem. That's sort of a last, worst-case scenario. You are up against the wall, but right now you've got some cushion, right? My seven. Yeah. Yeah. How long?

Right. And that's assuming you don't find anything. So if you get a job at six months, you just put $45 grand in your pocket. If you get a job making the same thing. Yeah. you got a signing bonus they did you a huge favor yeah yeah that's right I didn't see I didn't think of it that way I think I was looking at it more as some stability since again I don't know how long it will take me well you got a year if you call me up and you got one month left on your

severance we'll have a different discussion yeah but I'm also going to ask you why you suck at job interviewing if you've been looking for a year too but oh no no no I said if you did do that you didn't do that. But I said if you did, if you told me I've been looking for a job for a year and I can't find a job, I'm like, you're not very good as sales. You know, I mean, this is, yeah. So, but you're going to be fine because you have the people skills, right? Yes, they do. Okay. And that's what's, that's what's missing out there in the marketplace. People with people skills. Most people have been raised sucking on an iPhone and they don't know how to interface with human beings. Right? Right. No, absolutely. Absolutely. Now, these electronic passengers,

are killing us. So, but human beings like you and me that know how to, and George know how to work with human beings, I mean, there's a lot of stuff you can do. Which means utilize your actual physical network of people that you know versus just applying on, you know, indeed and ending up on a stack. Do not blindly apply for a job. It's a complete waste of calories. So that was my other thing.

But I just go for the offer so that way I have a job. No. No. Eventually. But, and I want you to. pick up something, do something if you want to. But in the meantime, and I don't want you to take a job making less. I want you to take a job making more.

Yeah, that was my other dilemma. I'm like, I don't, I mean, will I have to take the price cut? Well, it's human nature when you've been devalued by a stinking corporation to think that you're not worth it. That's human nature. But I've been talking to you for four minutes, and I know you're worth it. Okay. So you, girl, go get $120,000 job.

120. Say $120. That's your number. Yeah, 120. That's your number. And I want you call me back and tell me you got $120,000 job within six months of getting laid off and put $45,000 in your pocket. Now, let's go back to the house for a minute. Do you like your house?

It's kind of, I'm single with four bedrooms. Do you like your house? Yes, but I mean. If you still had your job, would you want to downsize anyways? Yes, I would. Okay. Then let's talk about downsizing, but I want to do it from a different narrative. It's from strength rather than weakness.

Right. You're not, there's no need to panic. You're going to get $120,000 to your job within two months from today. And, you know, you can just say Dave Ramsey's a liar if it doesn't happen. You're going to do it. I can just tell. All right. and then downsize your house.

Just because you don't like the house, got nothing to with being laid off by a stinking corporation. Okay, that makes sense. Just disconnect those decisions, and you'll have more clarity and more patience, because you're not in a rush. You're not desperate. Don't be a motivated seller. Sell your house for what is worth. There's no reason to panic. And get a good agent.

You can get one of our Ramsey Trusted agents, Ramsey'slusions.com slash agent, and they'll actually help you price it strategically and get you out of this thing. And maybe it'll coincide. You'll be moving, entering a new job. It's a whole new chapter. That'd be okay, too. Hey, hang on. We're going to send you a copy of the Proximity Principle, which is a book that will show you by Ken Coleman, how to work the people that are, that you have in your network to help get you into. They know somebody that knows somebody.

Sometimes it's just one degree or two degrees of separation that gets you in the door, not in a pile of applications. You don't want to just get in a pile of applications and call that job hunting. that's useless. So don't do that. And then the second thing we're going to send you is finding the work you're wired to do, which has an assessment with it that I want you to take just to verify what I think I already know about you, okay, which is you've got great people skills, you know how to deal with, you've got, you know, you've got good emotional IQ, and that puts you in a different position. George, second one of those calls by a lady we got today, I need to remind America, the highest paid profession is sales. higher than doctors and lawyers and Indian chiefs.

Higher than everything. The ceiling is there. If you want to free up margin in your budget, one of the first things you should do is take a hard look at your monthly bills because every dollar you overpay is another dollar you don't have for reaching your financial goals. And overpaying for your phone bill, well, that makes zero sense. And it's why I recommend Boost Mobile. Their unlimited plan is just 25.

dollars a month forever no contracts no hidden fees no surprise price hikes if you already have a phone you love you can keep it and keep your number when you switch and if you're skeptical boost mobile offers a 30-day money-back guarantee so you can try it risk-free listen your phone bill should fit your budget not the other way around reaching your financial goals is easier when you can pay less for the same service switching to boost mobile now is just a smart money move. Go to boostmobile.com slash Ramsey and make the switch today. That's boostmobile.com slash Ramsey. $25 forever requires customers to remain active on Boost Mobile Unlimited Plan. Kirsten is in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Hi, Kirsten. How are you? Good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

I am. My husband and I are in Baby Step 5 and 6, and we're looking for advice on when to stop funding. our children's 529 versus paying off our mortgage. Very cool. How old are the kiddos? I have a 6-year-old, a 3-year-old, and a 9-month-old. Okay. Well, I mean, there's a couple things you can look at on that that I'm okay with either way. You've obviously done a very good job with your finances.

Congratulations. Very few people get to where you are. What's your household income? Take home or take home after taxes and 401K. 10,427 a month. And you're how old again? I am 33. Oh, wow.

My husband is also 33. You're going to have so much money. Oh, my gosh. How much is already in the 529s? So our 6-year-old has 62,000. Our 3-year-old has 32,000, and our 9-month-old has 8,000. Are you working with a SmartVester Pro? Not yet.

Okay. Who's doing the 529s? Y'all just DIY them? Yep. All right. Because George may be able to do it fast enough. Do it as an example with the $62,000. Which ones do you do?

Yeah, I can do the 62, because that's the one that's coming up first, right? And he's how old? 12 years from now? Yeah, he's six. Well, it'll be $204,000. If you add nothing to it, you just let it coast. If you get an average 10% return, if you're in some good mutual funds in there, 200 grand.

Now, you can kind of figure out, hey, let's say they go to an in-state school, we'll factor in inflation over the next 12 years. 200 grand sounds good. Or you may decide, hey, let's put a little bit more in to get to 250, because they might get scholarships as well. Well, the other thing is this. I don't want to overfund a 529. Yeah, that's what we're worried about, is overfunding.

Personally, I also want to pay for their college. I'm not sure 204 will be enough to send them to school, room and board included. Pretty sure it's not going to be enough 12 years from now. But it's going to be real close. Okay. And he might decide to go into a trade or something and doesn't need anywhere near that. And then another kid might go to a super expensive school. And now we can use those funds and change beneficiary.

I'm probably not putting any more in that one. Okay. And so what we just did was we just future valued, meaning if you let it grow at a 10% rate or a 12% rate or whatever number you want to use, you can use the Ramsey calculator on our website and do that. That's what George was using. Okay, at Ramsey Solutions.com, jump on there. It's free, okay? And we just future valued. What's 62,000 going to be worth in 12 years at 10%? That's all he put in, okay? And it came out 204, and then you have to ask yourself, is that enough? I don't think it's going to be enough, but it's going to be so stinking close with the kind of income you got and the other wealth you're going to have that I really wouldn't worry about it. I think I'd probably stop that one. That's the other factor. You guys are going to be so much wealthier 12 years from now that you can likely cash flow any gap. And if you don't use it, you can roll over up to 35 grand over time with the new Secure Act 2.0 into a Roth IRA for that kid. I did see that, which is exciting.

It's kind of a pain, though. I really, I wouldn't do everything counting on that. The only advantage of a 529 versus dumping money just into the kid's name is it grows tax-free. That's the only advantage. It's not that it won't grow. So you could open just a mutual fund in the kid's name. and until it reaches the point, you know, until it reaches the point that it actually pays taxes, which will be a while. But if it did pay taxes on it, you're going to lose some of it to taxes.

That's the only difference. And so I'm not put any more in that kid's 529. That one. Now, do the other ones and figure out where it stands. You'll have 142 by the time they're headed to college. You may want to fund that one a little bit more. Yeah. What I might do is say, okay, if 204 is the baseline, I'm going to set the other two up to land

at 204 based on their age. Yeah. Maybe with inflation. Yeah. Or maybe a little more because of that. So I wasn't that sophisticated. I'll tell you what I did, which is kind of fun, just for the heck of it. Because 529s weren't there when our kids were doing this.

You had education savings accounts at that point? No, they weren't even there. Wow. No, we just had Utma's Uniform Transfer to Miners Act, which means I just opened a mutual fund in the kids' name. And all I did was Denise is the oldest, and I put her in the calmest type of mutual fund of growth and income. Rachel's the middle. So I put her in a growth. And Daniel was the baby.

I put him in an aggressive growth. And I didn't put as much in his because he was the baby and it was going to grow faster, but it had more risk. And they all turned out about the same. They're really, really close. It's a good experiment. Just generally dropping them in there. I didn't touch them after that. I just dropped a chunk in there and went.

And then what ended up happening, weirdly, Kirsten, is this. In that case, by the time the kids got to college in our case, and this is probably what you're going to run into. They went to University of Tennessee of state school and I just wrote a check. Cash flowed. And when they, when they got out and got married, I handed them that Utma account to start their lives with. Okay.

Now, you're going to have to use this 529 on education. So you're not going to be able to do that plan. But if you do a side deal and you don't end up, you, like beyond, the oldest child that we're talking about 204 from 62, if you do a side deal and you just open a mutual fund in their name, a uniform transfer to Miners Act, U-T-M-A-U-T-M-A-U-T-M-A-U-T, and you can do that with your SmartVestor Pro. They can help you figure all this out. Then what will happen is you could just hand it to them if they don't need it for college.

And so it's perfect to do all that. And that's how it ended up working out at our house. But, again, those tools were not all available. I had to pay some taxes on their accounts as they grew. There's more options now than ever, which is nice, but also can be overwhelming. So we're actually walking through that in our Investing Essentials event. It's all the ways you could invest for your kid. What's the best account for what reason?

Is it education? Is it a wedding, a down payment? Whatever it is, there's the right kind of account to use. Oh, we're going to cover that in the nerd event? That's right. At least I am. I don't know what you're going to do. I plan on it because I got young kids, so I'm thinking about this all the time.

Okay. All right. Well, I got grandkids. Your kids have launched. They're okay. I got grandkids, but that means my kids have to think about it. That's their problem now. You did your part.

That's fun. Oh, man. I love it. Claudia's in Washington, D.C. Hi, Claudia. What's up? Hi, Ramsey. It's so honored to be in the show.

I have a big question for you. Should I change my car? Should I repair it? What's your car worth today if it was repaired? The dealer says 12K. Carvana says 13K. As is or if it was repaired? As is.

Oh. What's wrong with it? So I just pay about a thousand in repairments, and I need to put three more according to the dealer because I need to do some replacements like wheel bearing and armbushes, something like that. That will be a total $3,000 more that I'll have to pay. So should I put that amount towards funding money off? I don't think it's going to make your car worth $3,000 more. You don't think so. Mm-hmm.

Do you? Do you think a car's going to go from 13 to 16 by putting wheel bearings in it? No, no, no. No, of course not. Also, don't know if you need wheel bearings or not. I want you to go get a regular mechanic, not a dealer. It's an independent mechanic. Deal, like go to Christian Brothers and let them do an analysis for you.

Dealerships are not crooked. They're just super expensive. Right. It's the most expensive place to get a car fixed. They can pretty much charge what they want over there. Like sometimes double. So if they told you three, 3,000 Christian brothers might tell you 1,500.

I don't know. I don't know what your repairs are, and I'm not turning wrenches these days, so I'm not positive. But you check on it and look at, okay. And the other thing you ask is, what is a reasonable repair to a car of this age and this miles? Because sometimes I run into somebody, Claudia, for instance, that has a $3,000 car that's $350,000 miles, and they're saying you need to redo the whole suspension. No, you don't. It's a $3,000 car.

Nobody redos the suspension on a $3,000 car. You drive them to the junkyard and you toss somebody the keys and you walk away. You know, you don't put $3,000 in a $3,000 car and you don't redo the suspension on a 250,000-mile car unless you're rebuilding a classic car from the frame up. So just, you know, so some of these repairs that they suggest, yeah, you could do this, but no reasonable human would do that to a $13,000 car. And so a good, a good mechanic will look at you and go, it's not common sense, okay, don't do it. and if it was my wife's car, I wouldn't do it. That's the kind of mechanic I want, right? You might take your three grand you would have spent, plus what the car is worth, and go get you a different car altogether at that point. Might be a better plan.

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We're both fresh out of college, just lived together for about a year now, and we're doing pretty well financially for our age. The issue is that we're both Chinese, well, I guess that's not the issue, but her family follows some traditional Chinese marriage traditions that my family does not. In her family, I'd be expected to give her parents about $30,000 to $40,000 as a dowry or bride price. and there's also significant pressure to have a large traditional Chinese wedding. And then my girlfriend and I are both not particularly interested in having and spending a lot on a wedding, but I think her parents and extended family strongly expected. I like her a lot. I like her parents a lot.

I think they're great. But my concern is just that even with our income right now, this would cause a pretty big hit, especially down the line for our savings. What is your income? So we are both making around 175K each question. costs. Each. So if you were married, you'd be making a $350,000 household income? Yes. Okay. Okay. Now, so have you made the decision that you're going to honor both of these requests regardless? Or are you trying to work through, are you trying to work through if you're going to set a boundary here or not?

I'll be honest, it's probably looking like, like I would say leaning towards yes for both. The bride price is something that is, I think, just very standard in her family. It's something that if I, I guess for either of these, if we were to not do, either one, her parents would not, either not approve of the marriage or be, I'd be on very bad terms with them to be in the marriage, and I don't want to be like that. So I am leaning towards doing both. Okay. All right. And so is 30,000, and then how much is the traditional wedding going to cost? I would say, I don't actually know. I'm not super little versus how much a normal wedding is even, but I would say we're looking at roughly $75,000 to $100,000. I would guess.

Yeah. That sounds right. Okay. So we need, let's call it 130 for the fun of it, and you make 350. And, I mean, the first thing you've got to decide is that you're really going to do this, and both of you are going to do it in spite of whatever, okay? That's hard because you sound, how do I say this properly? I don't know what the proper politically correct thing.

You sound very Americanized, distanced from those traditions. Yes, my family is very Americanized, that's, I hope that wasn't offensive or something, but I just, you know, you sound like this doesn't, like it, you know, it's not something you would do in a million years, but it's, but it kind of goes with the package. Yeah. Now, is the expectation that you're going to personally fund all of this, or is she involved with her income? Is she willing to say to? I would say the dowry and the bride price is something that I would. personally funds. Technically, her parents would actually give that amount back and more, but it would go into an account solely in her name. That personally, I don't have a huge problem with. Oh, wait a minute,

so the wedding, you're not going to have to pay for all of it. No, the, uh, well, the bride price would be $30,000 from me to her, basically. I got it. And then, that goes into an account and her parents are going to give you more money for this big traditional wedding. It's more, it's more likely not for the wedding specifically, it's more just for her to have, I guess, like a safety net. That's kind of how it works in Chinese tradition. Can you spend all of that on the wedding? No. That would come from, I guess, our joint account. Okay. So it is a net loss of 130 or so. Okay. So let's say she covers 50, you cover 50 for the wedding, plus your 30 or 40. Yes. So you need to save up about $90,000 out of your income, let's say, over the next 12 months.

Yes. 18 months. Yeah, and I guess my question was mostly just, is this something that I want to do? Is it something that I should kind of just say, like, screw it and let's do it now? Is it something that I should say, I need to save up and hold on more of this? How should I budget for it accordingly, I guess, is my main question. Yeah. Well, I don't emotionally from the hillbilly culture connect to this tradition.

So, because most of ours are like shotgun weddings, right? It's on the other end of the spectrum. So, you know, I can't get my head around, but what I do want to respect is that you're going to be married to her for a long time and it's going to involve her parents. And so I, but I tell you what I probably would want to do and as respectfully as I could, are they in China, her parents? No, her parents are in America. Okay. That's even better. I would want the two of you to sit down with her and her parents and say, we want to honor you,

but you also need to understand that we were raised here and that if it wasn't for you, we wouldn't do any of this. The only reason we would do any of this is for you. Is there any amount of this that you would forgive and not force us to do? Yeah, I think she's actually had a conversation with that, just individually her with her parents. And this was probably like a few months back, a year back maybe. And they were saying like, oh, yeah, like if he does ever want to propose, these are the things he's going to have to do. He's going to have to like come up to us, like ask for our blessing, data amounts. And then that was 30 to 40,000.

There's probably the requested amounts. And then also provide a bunch of like extra gifts and stuff. And I think that's their expectation. I would get real clear on the numbers and not let this become some unlimited thing that you just keep funding. At least that'll give you clarity. So I know what the numbers are for everything, the wedding, the dowry, and then figure out, okay, who's covering what? What's my portion? And then you set up a sinking fund.

If you're going to go through this, I got to save $4,000 a month for the next 18 months to cover all of this. Are you in a spot financially to do that? Man, this is hard for me because I'm having trouble, and you are too. That's why you called. I'm having a lot of trouble being required to write a $130,000 check that I have absolutely no desire to write. I'm having trouble with that. But I'm not very compliant. I'm more defiant.

And so, and so, you know, I don't know. I think if I'm, I would probably sit down with her father one to one and say, okay, I heard what you told. my potential fiance, your daughter, but I want you to hear from me, I don't want to do any of it. And so I want to figure out what I can do that is honoring because the only reason I'm doing anything is to honor you. And I don't have to do any of it. She'll just go marry me. So we really need to talk about this. And so, you know, and just see if there's any budge here.

I don't know. I mean, at the end of the day, would I sacrifice relationships with the in-laws for the rest of my life for an X number of dollars when I make $350,000 a year? No, I probably wouldn't. But boy, do I hate blackmail. It does feel a little bit like that. You know, I don't like that. I mean, it's just a ransom note. Yeah.

And I'm just, but again, it's my, that, that, it's a cultural difference between being a hillbilly and being Chinese. And so I, I have to admit that. intellectually outside that this is my emotions talking, I would just be like, hey. But I mean, what if he didn't make 175? What if you made 60? It's an unreasonable request. Yeah, but it's unreasonable request anyway. But it's traditional. And, you know, it's the 15-year-old birthday party if you're Hispanic, right? And we spend... Old Kinsenero. You get a brand new pony.

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Better than I deserve. What's up? Yeah, so I just had a question. I'm, thanks for having me on, by the way, too. I feel like, you know, times catching up on me with retirement and just really looking for a clear path to get back on track. My question is, is, you know, really should I, you know, just put off contributing to retirement?

my wife and I both, we're both 42 years old, and just concentrate on our debt or, you know, continue contributing to retirement and find a way to, you know, pay off our debt. We're currently living paycheck to paycheck right now. Between the two of us, we make $235,000 a year. It's kind of embarrassing. And really, I think, got stuck in these buy now, pay later type deals.

How much debt are you got? lot of credit cards. And consumer debt with your loans and everything, $187,000, not counting their mortgage rate. How much do you owe in your cars? One car is $31,000 left on the loan,

and the other is $17,000. Mm-hmm. Okay. So what's the other $130,000? Credit cards and some personal loans and $30,000 and student loan. So you just, you guys just, you borrow, you spend money like you're in Congress. How long have you been making $235,000 and spending this kind of money?

I will say the last six months, my, my, I had gotten a new offer. I got the $50,000. How long have you been making $235,000? Probably at least a year and a half. Okay, what were you making before that? Right around probably like 180 between both of us. Okay. So it's fair to say there's absolutely no bridle on your spending until just recently.

Yeah. Yeah. And when I just had an epiphany. Actually, I was watching your TikToks that show up on TikToks, your videos. So I was abusing you on TikTok. Yeah. And you're like, oh, Dave's going to camera. me.

Exactly. And I was like, I need to figure this out. No, in all, I appreciate that. But the bottom line is the emotion is you looked in the mirror and said I'm a 42-year-old man. I'm like $235,000 a year. And we can't control our spending. This is disgusting.

And it had nothing to do with my TikTok. You just really just came to an epiphany, didn't you? Yeah. I mean, I had the other day, you know, and then just thinking about them like that, I feel like I can't even enjoy it. like foods of my labor, like getting where I am, you know, making decent money. Oh, you've already enjoyed the fruits of your labor and then some. Well, I would say a lot of the fruit of your labor and then fruits of other people's labor.

And that's $187,000 worth, yeah. Well, a lot of it's on our kids, I would say. Well, then your kids say, yeah. They need to learn a new word. You want me teach it to you? I don't think the kids took out those car loans. No. And kids don't have car loans, but they go, you guys do anything you want to do whenever you want to do it without any thought of it.

And that stops. You're going to have to grow up. All of you, all of them, the kids and you. No is the answer. We're freaking broke. We're broke. Exactly. Yeah.

We're broke. Broke people can't do that. We're not going out to eat. We're not going on vacation. We're cutting up all the credit cards tonight. We're going to sell the $31,000 car. And we're going to live on beans and freaking rice. And all we do is work and pay off debt.

And we're going to clean this mess up in about, two years, but you're going to go to scorched freaking earth. You're going to go all the way to the other end of the spectrum with great intensity. If you do that, you're going to retire with millions of dollars. If you don't do that, you're going to continue to be normal. And as you and I have both established in this call, Mike, normal sucks. Oh, yeah. It's not fun. Your life is not fun. Yeah, it's stressful. And I'm always worried if I lost my job, what would happen. Yeah, you'd be You'd be screwed. And you're going to retire broke.

So stop all your retirement. If you don't do this stuff, it's going to catch, because you guys, you're pretty extreme mess here. You're going to have to take some extreme measures to reset your all's brains on how money works. So think about this, Mike. If you paused investing, could you then take home 10, 12, 15 grand a month with your income? Making $2.35. Yeah. Yeah, I think I do about 600 into my retirement a month.

Okay, so we'll get that back on top of anything else that we can muster up, sell the $31,000 car that brings us to about $156 in consumer debt. Now you throw $7,000 at that thing a month. You're done in less than two years. By 45, you have a fully funded emergency fund, you're completely debt-free, and you're investing in retirement, 15%, which is way more than $600 a month. And if you invests 15% of your income into retirement,

which you can easily do with no payments, right? 45 to 65. So you're going to have invested. You're millions and millions of dollars at retirement. But the next two years are going to suck. Yeah. It's going to be awful. Your kids are going to hate Dave Ramsey.

They're going to have to join the Dave Ramsey support group on Facebook. Yeah, well, I keep telling them they need to learn how to save now and not, not, yeah, because I mean. Yeah. Yeah. Because you know what they're going to do when they grow up? What you do. Morris caught than taught. How old are they here?

Nine and 11. Oh, that's perfect. You got time to save them. If they're teenagers, I don't know if you could turn it around or not. But right now, they get to watch their parents sacrifice to win, and they're going to remember it the rest of their lives. And when they inherit $10 million at your death, they're going to say, Back in Alt 26, Daddy and Mama said they wasn't going to do this anymore,

and the whole life changed, right? Someday, that's what they're going to be sitting on. But you're going to be the old man that changed the whole thing someday. But not if you're not the young man that changes the whole thing. Yeah. You ready to do it? We'll help you, okay? I think you can do it.

I think you can do it. And the reason I've kept you on here so long as I think you're disgusted enough to actually do it. It requires a certain level of being pissed off to do it. Oh yeah, I'm super mad. I can sense it. And it's not mad at somebody. It's mad at this situation and mad at the mess I made and I'm not going to do this anymore. I've had it.

When you have that moment, and I can tell from talking to you, that's why I keep you on the line. You've had that moment. If you were just blowing me off on all this stuff, I were already blown you off. So, but you, dude, I'm proud of you. I think you can do this. And I'm telling you, if you do what. So stop the 401k, sell the $31,000, sell the $31,000. get on the every dollar budget.

We're going to give you the upgraded version for free. Get signed up on it. I'm going to send you a copy of the total money makeover book. You and your wife read through it and go, we want a life making $235,000 with no payments but a house payment, and we're going to retire 20 years from today with tens of millions of dollars, and I think you will. The numbers say you will.

I'm the retirement, though. Should I go all the way down to zero? Zero. All the way. You've got to focus on the enemy right now. and the enemy is your overspending that has created debt. And you've got to focus on that with such intensity that people think you've joined a cult. Like your broke friends are making fun of you.

Look at Mikey. He makes $200 grand and he can't go out to eat. You know, well, kiss my butt. I'm not going to be broke anymore. I'm changing. You do whatever you want to, broke person. And you just move on. You may need some different friends.

So this is the thing. You've got to reset your brain on how this stuff works to where you get above this problem and step on it instead of it stepping on you. Because this money subject's been kicking your butt your whole life. You've never been able to tell it what to do. It's always told you what to do. That changes this week, Mike. It has to. Because if you just make more, you're just going to spend more until you say, I've had enough.

We just found that out when he got to raise to $2.35. Yeah, a third of people making six figures are paycheck to paycheck. And a lot of people think, well, if I just made more, I'd get out of this. I tried to out earn my stupidity. I couldn't do it because I had a lot of stupidity. The more you make, the bigger the zero's on the end with the stupidity. That's exactly right. Bigger mess you get to clean up.

So hang on, Mike. We're going to send you a total money makeover book. 10 million people have used that to get out of debt and become wealthy. I want you and your family to become wealthy and be able to do anything you want to do, but it's going to cost you two years to clean up your last 10 years of stupidity. insurance is confusing on purpose. You call one company, get transferred three times, sit on hold for 45 minutes, and end up more confused than when you started. That's why I recommend health trust financial. They're health insurance advisors who actually get to know your situation and help you

find the right coverage for your life and your budget. Healthcare needs change as your life changes. Maybe it's a job change, the birth of a child, a new diagnosis, or you're just trying to have more margin at the end of the month. No matter your situation, Health Trust Financial shops multiple top-rated insurance carriers and helps you understand what you're actually buying. I've trusted health trust Financial for over 20 years because they help Ramsey fans make smart health care decisions. Go to health trustfinancial.com today and talk to a real person without pressure or confusion. That's health trust financial.com. Here's what some people don't realize about wills.

They're not about age. Turns out people of all ages die. There's an insight for you. And we've done research. All of you and George and I are going to die. Our research shows that. So if you are an adult and you love kids, pets, or any amount of money you have made to go to the right person, you need a will. It's like a grown-up thing to do.

And this is National Make-A-Will Month like anybody cares, but it really is. And so get a will. Seriously, if you're ready to get one, go to mama bearlegalforms.com. And if you're not sure where to start, you can text quiz to 33-789. We'll help you figure out which option fits. your situation. All right, Brian is with us in Dallas. What's up, Brian?

Hey, Dave, how are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Hi, so I'm wondering, since the rates are really high right now, my timeline is about 16 months or so to look into buying the house. Should I look into getting an assumption loan? There's no such thing. There's not?

No. The only loans that can be assumed have to be reset and you have to qualify for them, and they'll raise the rate. Oh, right, but you wouldn't go into their rate? No, huh? You can't. Oh. Where'd you hear this? Yeah, I'll sound dumb, but I heard it on TikTok.

Yeah, TikTok. It gets a lot of clicks and views on TikTok, but they're so rare because of how many stipulations have to take place that they pretty much never happen. Yeah. So in the 1970s, loans that were FHA loans, HUD loans, were fully assumable without qualification and the interest rate did not move. They did away with that in the early 80s, and that's the last time there have been fully assumable loans.

All other loans have, for instance, in a Fannie Mae, a conventional deed of trust, paragraph 17, if you actually want to look it up, in paragraph 17, it's called a due-on-sale clause, meaning that the entire mortgage is due upon the sale of the property. And they will call the entire loan. Okay? Now, if that entity, let's say that's with a bank and they're using that and they have that paragraph 17 in their deed of trust, if they want to allow you to assume it, they're going to qualify you and they're going to reset the rate to current rates, otherwise they

would rather just get paid off because they'd rather get that 2% loan off the books. and re-loan the money at 6% current rates. So they don't want that loan out there at the current rates. Now, let's fast forward one more time, Brian, since you called and we're in the teaching business here, the TikTok idiots, what they are suggesting is going to get you fried because there is a thing in the get rich quick real estate world where you just go in and you don't register the deed. and you keep the property in the other guy's name, and you agree to pay him by contract or contract for deed, or whatever phrase they want to use for it. But once the mortgage company discovers that, in effect,

the title has been transferred, even though it wasn't recorded, they're going to call the loan and foreclose on the property. So if you follow these TikTok morons and assume a loan without the bank's knowledge, hiding it from them. That's a fraudulent transaction. You're going to get foreclosed on and lose all your money. And you should because you're a freaking liar.

You lied. Okay? And that's what these guys are teaching you to do. It's a fraudulent technique. It's a lying, a technique by which you lie. And it's called contract for deed. You can do it that way. And it's a wraparound mortgage.

These are all phrases we used in the 70s and 80s when we could. actually utilize those old FHA loans legally and without being fraudulent, and we could wrap around them, we could do all kinds of stuff, but you cannot do that with modern mortgage documentation. They have the ability to call the loan, and they will. As soon as they discover, you're screwing with them, and they should. And you need to cover the cash gaps. So whatever the home is worth, whatever the loan is, you've got to cover the difference in cash. Well, unless the flip this house, TikToker wants to say, okay, You owe 140.

We're going to sell you the house for 200. We owe 140 on it. And the last lady we bought it from, we never paid off her mortgage. It's still sitting there because we wrapped it. And now we're going to let you wrap it up to 200. And they're going to let you pay the whole loan to them. And they're supposed to pay the underlying and never transfer the title. Oh, title's not in your name.

It's a mess. And so you're what's known as screwed the first time something happens. I mean, the house burns down. the taxes are not in your name. You don't get notified. The taxes don't get paid. There's no insurance on the stupid house because you can't put the insurance in your name because the mortgage company knows who's named the insurance company's in because they got a copy of it because their name's on it too as a payable as a payee in the event of a fire. And so good Lord. It's just it's just so crooked. So if the interest rates, the deciding factor just means you need to wait until you can afford that thing with current rates. Yeah. And by the way, 6% is what we're sitting at today. 5.9 on a 15 year fixed. By definition, that is not high.

By definition, that is low. And compared to historical data, it's dramatically low. 6% should cause a real estate boom. Interest rates are not what's holding people back. Okay? It's the fact, you've got all these other loans, you got no control of your money, and you don't have the money to put,

you know, I haven't saved up the money, and you're trying to buy a house you can't afford in a city you can't afford to live in. These are the problems you get into. So, yeah, please, Brian, don't listen to people doing real estate deals on TikTok. Good Lord. That's the worst possible. That's as bad as Reddit.

These are the two sources of sewage. It's just raw sewage. You will die from salt raw sewage. It'll kill you. Jacob is in Oklahoma. Hi, Jacob. What's up? Hello, sir.

I am currently in the Air Force, and they are sending me. me from Oklahoma to Alaska. I currently only have a motorcycle, and I'm trying to determine if it is a good idea to finance a more reliable car or purchase a cheaper, possibly issue-ridden car to save my cash reserves. So your only options are go deeply into debt or buy a car that's going to explode on the interstate? That's what you just... Exactly. Okay. Just want to make sure we were clear here. What's the motorcycle worth? It's probably worth around six grand. Okay, why don't you buy a six grand car?

I just, I don't know if six grand is going to be a reliable enough vehicle. Oh, absolutely it will. It won't be pretty and it won't attract chicks. You got a girlfriend? Not right now. No, he's going to Alaska. We'll find one over there. But here's the truth.

There are $6,000 cars that will run just fine. Get a pre-purchase inspection. It'll cost you. 100, 150 bucks. You'll know if there's issues ahead of time. And you're probably better off just buying Alaska. It's a little more expensive, but shipping one to Alaska is not cheap either. So how long are you going to be stationed there, Jacob?

The Air Force will cover the shipping of one vehicle from Oklahoma to Alaska. Cool. And I'll be in Alaska for four years. Okay, yeah. Then get you a great $6,000 car and cover the shipping. You don't have any other money, I take it, other than the motorcycle. I have about $15K in cash. Oh, great.

So how expensive a car do you want? You don't want 21. What do you make? Yeah. I make about $2,500 a month. So $30,000 a year or anything like that. So you've got $21,000 if you sell the motorcycle. How much do you want to spend on a car?

I was probably looking to spend around $10,000 to $12K. I'll just write a check. You think that's a good idea as opposed to trying to save some of that money? A thousand percent do not buy a car with a car payment. Ever, the rest of your whole life. Taking on a car payment, it's a terrible way to save money. It's a guaranteed way to stay in the middle class the rest of your life. It's the most expensive thing we buy that goes down in value.

I'd ride that motorcycle in the coal, baby, in Alaska before I'd go into debt. But you don't need to. Sell the motorcycle. You got $21,000. You pay $12,000 for a car, ship it up there. And you got a little money in the bank, and you're, you know, not a lot to do up there anyway. So just stack your money. Hey guys, it's Rachel Cruz.

When it comes to life insurance, most people fall into one of two camps, the ones who make a plan to protect their family and the ones who hope everything will just work out. But hope isn't a financial plan. When you get married or have kids, your money decisions aren't just about you anymore. Your income helps keep the lights on, pay the mortgage, and put food on the table. And if something happens to you, will your family have protection or? uncertainty. Well, at Ramsey, we recommend term life insurance that 10 to 12 times your income with a 15 to 20 year term for the years that your kids are at home and your mortgage is still being paid off. That's why Winston and I have our term life coverage through Zander Insurance. They're an

independent broker who works for you shopping all the top companies to find the most competitive prices on coverage you need. Get instant quotes online in just minutes at zander.com or call 800,000, 356, 4282 to get your family protected with term life insurance. That's Xander.com or 800356-4282. So when our grandkids turned 10, Sharon and I take them on a trip somewhere. And Rachel's oldest daughter, Amelia, and Denise's oldest daughter, Lydia, were ready for their 10-year-old trip, so we took them to Washington, D.C. And we tour around to all the monuments and all this stuff.

And traveling with Papa Dave is cool because Papa Dave don't do anything except luxury travel anymore. That's right. So you got it made. So like we get a VIP tour guide. So we like going in the back door, not because it's Dave Ramsey, just because I wrote a check for the guide, right? You paid for the premium experience. Going the back door and you get in five minutes before everybody else into, you know, the, you know, archive, national archives to see the Declaration of Independence. And, you know, 35 minutes later, there's 2,000 people standing there.

But, yeah, you don't want to be in there. in the middle of that. But, I mean, it's wonderful to see this. So we went all around Washington, D.C., walking around with the grandkids and the tour guide and Mount Vernon and the Capitol and got to tour of the White House. They were not, Melania staff. My first lady staff was very nice to allow us to do that, set it all up. It was very cool. And, but the fun thing was, everywhere we went, we would run into somebody who recognized me. Rachel was with us, too, recognized me or Rachel, and said, hey, thanks for what you do and you change our life. And can we get a picture or whatever? and all this stuff.

And we're walking along a sidewalk, and this guy is sitting on the sidewalk with a cooler beside him, yelling, you know, cold water, Gatorade, cold water, Gatorade, just a street vendor, right? And I walked behind and he goes, shut up, Dave Ramsey. And I said, absolutely, dude, who are you? And I stood there and talked to him for a minute. And he goes, hey, man, this is my side hustle. I'm making really good money selling bottled water to the tourist for getting out of death.

this is my side hustle. How cool was that? That's incredible. That was fun. And we got this one in, too. So we run into a lot of different people. And I got to hear a lot of wonderful stories. Hey, crew, I saw Dave Ramsey and his daughter and grandkids at the Capitol building. About two weeks ago, I was walking through the Capitol with my five boys. I wanted to shake his hand and thank him for saving me from a life of debt and endless years in the workforce. I've raised my five boys, my husband's single military income, all because I was introduced to Dave Ramsey and the Ramsey team around the age of 16. I followed the program ever since at 36. I'm pursuing a flight career. Dead free, my husband's retiring for the military in about five years to start his own business. We're so grateful. This particular trip sent me over my budget, and I was just mulling that over in my head when the budgeting master appeared in front of me. How great is that Yoda, right? The guilt of my overstretched budget and what I would equate to financial idol of mine

appearing before my eyes wrecked my whole day. And she didn't even say hi. She walked away. Oh, that's fun. Rick my day in the best way possible. If you could convey my endless appreciation to him, well, you're, when we appreciate your endless appreciation. It was nice. She said I didn't want to disturb him or his family on their vacation.

You're not ever disturbing us. We're always honored to meet anybody anywhere in the town. I disturb Dave more than anyone. Well, I don't care, vacation or not. Maybe Rachel, but, yeah. That's so funny. Yeah. So, no, I mean, we, it's oftentimes somebody will say something nice to us.

Rachel told me one of the security guys at the White House, you know, full camo, huge gun. He leaned over and said, I make all the cocktails for Smart Money Happy Hour. I don't miss an episode. It's like, wow. A bunch of these guys, we're checking into the Senate building. And one of those guys leaned over and said, yeah, Smart Money Happy Hour, a different guy, too. Yeah, the Smart Money Happy Hour is right popular, George. There's a few people out there in Washington, D.C. watching your drunk show.

They need to decompress after all the drama over there. So that's what we're here for. That's exactly right. Well, thanks to all of you. We appreciate all of you that listen and all of you that say nice things. We really do. Thank you very much. Jordan is in Cincinnati, Ohio.

Hi, Jordan. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Thank you so much for taking my call. And I want to say on behalf of my family, thank you.

My parents took SPU when I was a kid and they changed our family tree, which has set my sister and I up for success. Wow. Which leads to my question. Very cool. At 30 years old, my husband and I are sitting at $140,000 in retirement. using your retirement calculator at that 10% rate of return and a retirement age of 65, it gives me $4.6 million without me contributing anymore.

Is there ever a point in time that you can consider baby step four done or complete? No, I always invest. I didn't stop investing when I had a first million dollars. I kept investing because the money then gives me options for a couple of things that are very important spiritually and emotionally to me. It does three things. One is it gives me additional security, which is not a big deal once you get past $5 or $10 million. You're not worried about that. And the second thing it gives me is the ability to completely, as you said about your parents, change my family tree.

And, you know, $10 million does a lot more than one meet. And the third thing it does is it increases my ability for generosity. And so, I mean, if you had $10 million, you're making a million dollars a year in growth. You can give away a million dollars a year and still have $10 million for the rest of your life. That's kind of fun, by the way. I highly suggest it. So, no, I don't stop building wealth. I always enjoy some.

I always have a generosity. that's substantial and more substantial. The percentages don't change a lot, but the numbers change. And I always have investing. My whole life I have, and I teach everybody that, and I've always done it. I wouldn't tell you to stop enjoying it, except for a short period of time while you're in Baby Step 2, right? And no, I get what you're saying, but I don't know what you're going to do with all the money

you're wasting in the meantime. So you can do all of that and still have a great life. You can keep investing 15% of your income, the rest of your life and still have a wonderful life. Yeah, well, money is a tool. And so you have more money. We have more options for what you can do with that. It equals options. That's what it is.

And so I like having options. And we don't know. And I mean, to factor in 35 years, we just don't know what your future holds and what, you know, life events are going to happen. I'd rather be investing for the future and have more than I need than not enough. Yeah. And, you know, if you don't need it and you don't want to give it to your family, you can give it away. Help somebody with it. You've got the gift of getting an early start, the gift of getting an early education. And you've done very well so far. But you do only have $140,000. That's not much, really, in the scope of life. So let's go get some more. And that's not greed. It's just saying this gives me options. It gives me security. It gives me the the ability to be generous and it gives me the ability to change my family tree and make sure that this is the last ugly Ramsey in this branch to be in debt and bankrupt. You know, it can stop here. If I teach them and I leave them zeros, lots of zeros. You got to teach them, you got to leave them

zeros. And, you know, I can be the last one. I mean, somebody's got to be old man Vanderbilt, right? Somebody's got to be old lady Rockefeller. Somebody's got to be a little bit. Somebody's got to break the chain in this family and change it. Break the curse of poverty, the curse of being in debt, the curse of mediocre mindset and stupid socialism ideas. Somebody's got to break those curses off of my family, and it might as well be me. And it might as well be you. And so that's the way I look at it. I don't want to get stuck with any of that anymore. And the math is incredible. When you look at the ROI of a dollar when you're 30, I mean, if she puts in a thousand bucks, a month, let's say, for the next 35 years. Instead of that four point something million,

she'll have 8.3 million. And that's only, she's put in an extra 400 grand to get an extra $4 million out. That's a pretty sweet vending machine right there. So as far as, you know, your money goes, better than chucky cheese. Pretty good bang for your buck right there. And again, it changes the life you can have and the options you have and your family trick. Yeah. So the answer is, no, I wouldn't. I would have a steady stream of generosity, a steady stream of enjoyment. and a steady stream of investing the rest of your life. And that's what I've done also. I didn't ask you to do something I didn't do.

And it's made me a really good life. If I wouldn't me, I'd want to be me. All right. Sophia is in Salt Lake. Hey, Sophia, what's up? Oh, no, you're not. No, you're not. We're at the end of the hour.

We're going to come back to you, Sophia. There's another hour, and you're going to be just fine. Don't worry about it. And you poor people that don't know how to get that other hour, well, you're going to teach you about YouTube and podcast. I guess. We'll get you there, I promise. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. Susan is with us in Orlando.

Hi, Susan. How are you? Good, thank you. My husband and I would love to know if we are being too generous too soon. We opened up a nonprofit cat cafe over two years ago for our son, who's 24 years old, who has Down syndrome. and we adopt out cats, we partner with Easter Seals, so that other people with disabilities have work experiences, and we also use it as a ministry by playing Christian music, giving away Bibles, and Christian literature.

Okay, help me with this, because I need to understand what a cat cafe does is. It's an adoption center. An adoption center. It sounds like it's like a living room environment, for the cats to roam around while people come in and visit and socialize with them and then have the ability to adopt them out. Okay. So your question is, how are you being too generous?

So you set up and operate this whole thing? Yes. Out of your pocket. Yes. As a gift. Yes. Okay. All right.

And, of course, you did not expect it to be a business. You expected for this to lose money, correct? We were hoping to break even. How would you do that? Do people pay fees to adopt the catch? They do. Correct. Okay. But they're not doing that often enough? Or are you not charging enough? We don't have enough. We did increase just recently the cost, but we're not getting enough customers or community involvement. So it might be just because we've only been around for a couple years and the word isn't out yet.

How much are you losing every month doing this? We're losing $4,000 a month. And what is your net worth? $1.7 million. Okay. So $50,000? How old are you? I'm 48 and my husband is 60.

Okay. I earn $187 a year. In addition to what your investments are? Okay. Correct. And we're investing $18.5 per month. total. But I mean, you can handle with the numbers you're giving me a $50,000 a year donation to the world of cats or whatever we want to call it, right? This is a not, have you formed it as a nonprofit? It is. It's a 501.3c, so we do get tax benefits.

Okay. But you do not solicit outside donations, only fee for the cats. We have a little bit, but self-reportedly we have not done well with asking for money. Yeah, that's not shocking. Okay. And how many cats did you adopt out, say, in the last 12 months as an example? Well, it's 232 in the last two years, so about 115. Okay. All right.

So 10 a month. Okay. And you charge what? Well, about 150 per cat, but we give most of that back to the rescues so they can continue their effort. They microchips, they vaccinate, they spate and neutered the cats. Before they send them to you. Correct. So these are all rescued animals.

They are. So how much are you actually bringing into the business? That's included, though. Oh, but so it's just your operation. So, yeah, so you break even. You're not collecting any fees towards your operations, so your operation is just all out of pocket. Yeah.

Four grand a month? Yeah. Are you leasing a building for this? Is that what's going on? We do, we do lease a space, and then we also employ a couple part-time employees, and then, you know, cat food and litter. Also, it's a gift shop, so a little bit of merchandise as well. Okay.

I did look back in the last six years, our net worth did still increase by 700,000. So it's definitely... Yeah, I don't think it's killing you. I think it's just emotionally bothering you. Yeah, I'm anxious about losing money because it's never from that before. The business model of the nonprofit is not what you thought it was going to be. Right. Yeah.

I think we definitely need to be better about asking for help. we're both nurses so we're usually the helpers and not people asking yeah can you get volunteers we can okay so here here's what i would do in this situation i would treat it emotionally like it's a small business is losing money and in that case what i want to do is i want to say what must be true for me to be happy that we're doing this and that's a number Okay, I'm not happy you've established that at 48,000 a year. Right. Not because it's hurting your net worth or not because you can't afford it,

but because that number bothers you. It's that simple. Right. Okay, the juice isn't worth the squeeze, right? The benefit of helping is not worth 50K to you. It doesn't seem to balance the scales. So how much would you be willing, you don't have to answer me, but you've got to answer you.

How much am I willing to, feed this thing, no pun intended, right, to, and still be okay with that. Okay, it might be that you could do something else that was, you know, $5,000 a year that gave you the same sense that you were after with this. And I don't know what it is, but it might be that we, you know, okay, this, this methodology that we were using here to be a blessing to the animals and our special needs child is not paying off. So we've got to find another way to be blessing to the animals and blessing the special

needs child. And it could be that you just take the existing shelter and you make a donation and your child volunteers there and you know, and you set up a room at that shelter in your name that you give them a one-time gift that keeps it going or gets it going and then they keep it going or whatever. I mean, it could be you just find out a different method to, um, uh, you know, to try to do some of the same original motivations. Or we change this model.

I'm afraid, just on the outside looking in, if you charge more, you're probably going to have no adoptions because there's only certain amount people are going to pay. They'll go elsewhere to adopt a cat, right? If it's half the price. So that's not a lever we can tweak significantly. Yeah. Yeah. And if you don't make the donation back to the Animal Center, they'll continue to send you animals anyway because you're a methodology to help the animals find a home, right? Correct. Yeah, so you don't have to make that donation back. And so at $100, you know, that's $1,000 a month, $1,500 a month, right?

Right. So I don't know. But you've got to decide what must be true here for me to be okay because I'm not okay. today. And maybe you look at, you know, local businesses that will sponsor you for a couple hundred bucks a month. You'll advertise from them in the shop. I'm going to get good at asking for money. Yeah. You're in the fundraising business. I'm going to, you know, or I don't want to do that. And so I'm not going to do it anymore. And we're, you know, you could close it. That's an option. You know, just, but I'm going to sit around and creatively think, okay, if I wasn't doing this at all, What would I do today that would be the number that I'm okay with?

$2,000 a month. I'm okay with that. Whatever. What would I do today to do that? And would I make a $50,000 your donation to, you know, Cats Are Us or something? I don't know. And this is the part where we say there's more than one way to skin a cat?

No, you don't say that. I was waiting for it? You can't say it on this call. Okay. Hey, guys, George Camel here. Do you ever feel like insurance companies only care about your money and not what you actually need? Well, there's a better way.

When you go to Ramsey's Insurance Resource Hub, you'll start feeling confident that you're getting the right coverage that's truly best for you. You'll find helpful info on everything from life insurance, health insurance, identity theft protection, and more. And when you're ready to get the coverage you need,

you can connect with a Ramsey trusted insurance pro who will only get you what you need at the best price. Go to Ramsey Solutions.com slash insurance. Ramsey Solutions.com slash insurance. 34 years on the air First cat cafe call. And not the last. May there be many more.

They're getting popular. It's all I'm saying. There's dog bars, too, by the way. I know you're a dog guy. And you're all about horses, so. I love a horse cafe, but I think the smell would turn people away from drinking their coffee. I'm not even going to, yeah. Hey, if your private student loans are in default, when you've fallen so far behind that the loan is underpaid, considered unpaid,

why refi may be able to help, why refi helps borrowers in total? tough situations explore low, fixed rate refinancing options that fit your budget. Go to Y-refi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y.com. Slash Ramsey might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Tim in New Hampshire. I'm planning to retire at the end of the year and I'm wondering if I should take an $80,000 lump sum from my employer or take a monthly payout from my retirement benefit. I'm debt-free and on Baby Step 7. What would you advise? It's a fun math equation.

Now, I don't know the monthly payout. That would have been nice to know as a part of this. But generally, if you can take the lump sum and you don't necessarily need it and you can invest it, it might be better off depending on what that payout is. It almost always is. Okay. So there's two things going on with a pension, and that's what we're talking about most likely. The pension regulations require that the money is invested as such a way that your typical return on a pension is around 6 or 7 percent. versus a good growth stock mutual fund, which would have averaged between 11 and 12 percent.

Okay. So number one, when you're getting that monthly payment, it's based on a lower rate of return. It's not good. Number two, when you die, if you take $80,000 and put in a mutual fund, someone gets the $80,000 or whatever it has grown to. If you die with a pension, nothing. Zippo, not a. Oh, you could have survivor benefits,

and then when your spouse dies, nothing zippo, not a. Okay? So, now, we always take the lump sum because it's a lot more when you die and a little more while you're alive. And typically, here's the thing. In other words, if you take the $80,000 and invest it, it typically will create more monthly income than the pension because it's invested better. That's what it amounts to. So, yeah, we almost always, when we run the calculation, we tell you to take the lump sum.

It's a lot better when you die and a little bit better while you live. And it's in your control. That's the most important. There you go. There's that too. Sophia is in Salt Lake City. Hi, Sophia. How are you?

Yeah, hi. How are you? Great. How can we help? Yeah, I just had a question. So my husband and I own a house. We have one car payment and a little girl. My husband doesn't like our house.

He wants to move into an apartment so that we can save money for a better house. Is it better to move into an apartment or stay into our house and build equity? Okay. Why does he not like your house? I think he just doesn't like it because we feel like we're spending more money, like watering the lawn or like it's just kind of smaller. It only has two bedrooms. We can't really grow our family into it.

And there's some things that need to be done with it. And I think that's just spending more money. So he just doesn't like the idea of home ownership. this point. No, I think he really does love, he wants to get a house, and I think this one just doesn't feel like the right one for him. Okay, but you have one child and two bedrooms, so right now it works for your family. He just doesn't like watering the lawn. That's what I'm hearing. Money spent, yes. So how much is this mortgage compared to your income? Because you said it's also a financial burden. Yeah, so our mortgage right now is 2,900.

Our income is $6,200. So that's eating your lunch right there. It's about almost half your take-home pay. Yeah. You just bought too much house to begin with, and so now he's seeing all of this. You spent too much. I don't know if you bought too much house. That's a very expensive two-bedroom house.

Yeah. It has a basement. They call it the basement downstairs a room, but it really isn't. It doesn't have a clock. So what will this house sell for? So, I'm just too biased. I'm sorry. Phoning a friend, I think.

I think she's asking him right now. Yeah, I don't know exactly. I know that we've... Yeah, so what I would do is find out, figure out what it would sell for. It just seems like it's very expensive. $3,000 a month for a two-bedroom in Salt Lake City. It sounds out of whack. Like you bought in a neighborhood that's like pretty chic or something.

I don't know. I don't know what you're doing or what's going on that. The problem is if you go buy a three bedroom, it's probably going to be more expensive. So it doesn't help your financial situation. But it may be in a different area. So no, I would not long term be a renter. No, I would not buy a home that is 40% of your take home pay unless your income is going up dramatically over the next two years. You're going to be pinched because that's you're what we call house poor. Because by the time you pay all your bills and pay your house payment, you don't get. money. You're broke. And so you bought a house you can't afford in terms of the payment. And so yes, if your income's not going to go up and you don't like the house, then it is time to get out of this house. And if you rent for a short period of time, one year or something while you reassess and reevaluate where you're going to live and get a payment that you can actually afford on a 15-year fixed rate, then I would change and go that way. Yeah. And so, You know, those are all decisions you guys can make. But the answer is yes, we would sell this house unless your income is going up because your payment is too much as a percentage of your income for you to have a quality life.

Payment's going to eat you. And get rid of that car debt as well. So if you reset, go rent, pay off the car loan, save up an emergency fund, stack up a bigger down payment, you'll be in good shape. Dalton is in Memphis. Hey, Dalton, what's up? Hey, Doug, George. It's a good talk to you. You too.

How can we help? Thank you for taking my call. Sure. Yes, sir. So the question is, I can give you the question, give you a little back story. So we had, last June, our house flooded. Thankfully, we did have flood insurance. So we were able to, we rented for a little while. And through some other problems that we had, we chose not to move back. And so the renovations took about a little about a year, and we bought another house. That house is now on the market, and it is completely paid for. So we have only one mortgage. And my question is, it's been on there for about coming up close to 70 days. Do we just wait it out, keep lowering the price, or at some point think about maybe renting it out?

Are there other houses on the street that have sold or for sale that are in the flood zone? One directly did, but I guess she's technically not in it, but she did have some water damage because it was more of an astronomical flood than the plane says it is. And you've had no showings, no offers in 70 days? Lots of showings. A couple very interested parties. The flood insurance is what's backing people out of the deal. Well, they can buy flood insurance. Why wouldn't they not do the deal?

They just don't want to be in a floodplain. They don't want that. And the price of what it's going to cost to have the flood insurance. The additional cost. How much is the flood insurance? The policy I just bought was about $2,500 for the year. And what's the house priced at? $2.99.

Okay. That's 1%. That's not killing this deal. It's an extra $200 a month. You could give them 10 years of flood insurance. to still make a deal, right? We just haven't had any offers. It seems like the area here is very stagnant.

My realtor is pushing this every day, and every property that they have at their firm is just sitting. Okay. So it's not a flood zone issue, then? Just a slow market. It seems to be the slow market. It's not helping. That just seems to be not helping.

Yeah, it's not helping, but I don't think it's killing your deal. Well, if you're sitting in a market where nothing's selling, lowering the price doesn't matter. That won't cause it sell until you get down to a giveaway price. I might look at changing realtors. If you're not using a Ramsey trusted real estate agents, you may want to take a change in realtor. Sometimes that'll move the property. Hey, what's up, guys? It's Jade Warshot.

Listen, summer spending adds up so fast between vacations and road trips and camp fees and events. And all the extra gas and grocery runs, money can get tight before you know. it. To really get your money under control and keep it that way, you're going to need a plan. And that's what you'll get with the Every Dollar Budget app. It helps you track your spending, free up cash to put toward debt and savings, and it's the simplest way to make a plan for your money before the month begins. So no more wondering where your money's going. You're telling it where to go. Download Every Dollar in the App Store or Google Play and start for free today. Lee is with us in New York. Hey, Lee. What's up?

Hey, how are you? Better than I deserve. How can we help? I hear you. I'm trying to get where you're at. Oh, my God. I'm so happy to be here. Real quick, I'm 54 years old.

I've been on Baby Step 2 for 18 months. I paid off $38,000. You go, girl! Awesome. Thank you so much. I'm so proud of you. Thank you. I appreciate it.

And that's why I'm here. I have gone against everybody that I know. I've been hearing about how I need to take a break. I'm too old. to work two jobs. You need credit. You're crazy. I've been all surrounded by naysayers. A lot of losers around you. Oh, my God. Yes. I even was like, you know what? I made a payment today. And somebody had a nerve to say to me, look at you bragging. I'm like bragging. You need some new friends. Exactly. I haven't had a pedicure since 2024. I've been living off

of boiled eggs and Quaker instant oatmeal. I don't even take way to buy myself a new bed. I've been sleeping on a full-time mattress on the floor. Are you done? Are you finished? Yes. Today is the day that I make my final debt payment. On what? What are you paying off today? Today is a credit card. I had three credit cards. Who is it? What credit card? A city bank. Oh, I hate them. I'm so glad it's not in your wallet. No, it's not. Today I just wanted to do it just surrounded by people who actually understand what I've been going through. Oh, so you're going to make your payment live on the air right now. Right now. The final payment.

Yes. Mark the moment. I love this. This is so fun. I'm so proud of you. Oh, thank you, Dave. I've been watching y'all for years. What do you make a year?

I started at $81,000, and I went up to 93. I work in a restaurant. I had two restaurant jobs. So if you look back, you're 54, when was the last time you were 100% dead free? Oh, God. I was 30 something. Wow. So 20, 25 years.

Yeah, yeah. Went through a divorce. My dog died. Like, it's been a whole thing. This 18 months has been crazy. And I just, I just been hearing about how I'm doing the wrong thing. You've been doing the right thing. The only thing you're doing wrong is who you're hanging out with.

Yeah, I don't hang out with anybody. Yeah. Well, whoever it is that's yapping at you, you need to get them some duct tape. Yeah. But you're just so cool. I love you. You're awesome. Thank you.

Well, you go. You're such a winner. I'll change my life. You'll change my life. You changed your life. We just got to observe it. Yes. Thank you.

You're an inspiration. Now, let me ask you. Everybody's telling you you're crazy and you hadn't had a pedicure and life's been tough for two, 18 months. Was it all worth it? Yes. Yes. Because you know why?

Listening to everything, listening to your show, I got a financial advisor through Ramsey. I have an IRA. I have a 401k. I was minus 40,000 net worth, and now I'm almost 200,000 net worth because of you. I didn't do it. You did it. Quarter million swing. I'm so proud of you. Life insurance and everything. I did all this stuff. And I'm like, I just want to do this last one. I want somebody to understand and celebrate with me. Well, you got the right people. We all want to celebrate with you. You're fun. Oh, my goodness. I'm just, I'm so happy to be here. This is awesome. Very cool. So what are you going to do? You're going to like hit submit on the payment button or something and say, bye, bye, city.

Of course, it's not working. Of course, it's not working. I'm trying to get my face ID to work. Oh, gosh. Well, it doesn't recognize you because you hadn't had a pedicure. I've had it open all this time, and now it won't. Of course, that's my life. That's the devil in that technology. Really? Trying to block a blessing. Seriously. I've had it open all day. What's left on the balance that you're about to pay off? $2,0.992.53.

All right. Amazing. Very cool. Well, I think we can count it. I know you're going to be able to pull it off once you get off the pressure being on the air and trying to do the face and all that stuff. But, yeah. All right. So here's what I want you to do. I want you to tell me now that you're debt free, how's it feel? It feels great. I can't believe this. I've had this open all day. waiting to do this and now it's not going to let me. I'm so sad. It's okay. We're going to count it.

It's the same thing. If it happens 30 seconds from now, it'll still be magical. I'm so sad. You'll work it out. I can't believe this happening to me right now. I tell you what we're going to do. You're going to count down and scream, I'm dead free. We're going to put you on hold.

Christian's going to check back with you in a few minutes. And if you get the thing working, we'll bring you back on the air, okay? And if you don't, we'll just know that you did it at home, okay? Yes. All right. Count it down. Three, two, one. I'm dead free.

Scream it. Three, two, one. We got the music and everything. Got the whole backdrop, the whole bit. The confetti fell in the studio. Just snuck in a debt-free scream right there. Wow, pretty cool. Pretty cool.

All right, check back where there in a few minutes. If she can get up, we'll let her push the submit button on the yet there. First time we've done that one, I think. Way to go. Cool. Jeff is in Tyler, Texas. Jeff, what's up? How's it going, Dave? Better than we deserve, sir. How can we help? I know you were going to say that.

Hey, so me and my wife have been extremely blessed. We are 45 and 46 years of age, got four children. We have made it about 3.30 a year. Wow. Have been for a little while now. We are out of debt except for our house finally. which is fantastic. My biggest question is we've got about 650,000 in a 401K. And when I get on the Dave Ramsey investment calculator, it's by the time we retire, it's a pretty dead gum big number. And I'm

really, really worried about our investment strategy. If we continue maxing out our 401K like we have been doing with my company match, and when it comes to required minimum distributions. Your company doesn't have a Roth 401K? Well, so they have a Roth IRA. I'm not 100% sure about a Roth 401k. If we do, I'm not aware of it, but that's something that I could look at. 80% of the companies that have a 401k have a Roth option. Okay.

I'm sure that they probably do then. Then start your contributions from today forward being Roth. That's the first step. Okay. Yeah, because there's no RMDs on Roth. Right. Okay, no requirement of minimum distribution is 73. Then the second thing is, let's get the house paid off.

And when the house is paid off, I'm going to start moving all of it at once or at some point or move chunks of it, whatever, however we need to do it, whatever your bracket creep is on your income, whatever you're looking at. I think you're probably creeped out on the actual brackets. But anyway, I'm going to move chunks of it to Roth and pay the taxes as a part of my investment strategy. so that all of the growth from this point forward is tax-free and so that I avoid RMDs. And you got time to do this. So get the house paid off and then cash flow the taxes that are created without having to touch the Roth, without having to touch the amount. So let's say there's $600,000 in there.

You move $200,000 over. It creates $40,000 in taxes. You got the extra $40,000 because you don't have a house payment anymore. And you just pay that $40,000 in taxes. and you move the whole 200,000 over. And you do that in like three chunks or four chunks or whatever, and you get it all moved over there. And then by the time it gets there,

it's going to be millions and millions of dollars as young as you are. Yes, sir. And so, yeah, you've anticipated a problem way in advance. Congratulations. That's called wisdom. Fantastic. Yeah. And then there's an added benefit that you hadn't even got to yet.

I didn't even think about this stuff in the old days. I did all Roths and converted everything to Roth as fast as, I could, as long as I can look back. And I had no, I wasn't even thinking about RMDs at the time, and I wasn't thinking about estate planning either. But here's the thing, you can name a beneficiary on this Roth. There's no taxes, no income taxes to your heirs. They're going to love you even more. Yeah. And if it's a stupid traditional, they got 10 years under the Biden Act, the Biden Secure Act, 3.0, they make you cash it. They make the heir, an inheritance diary make you cash it out. It's a sort of RMD on an inherited required minimum distributions to get.

You've got to get all out of there in 10 years. And none of that applies. So all mine's raw. So my kids have no problem with any of this. It all goes to them. No taxes except estate taxes. But that's a different issue. Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here.

Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to Ramsey Solutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's Ramsey Solutions.com.

Our scripture of the day, Isaiah 4031, but those who hope in the Lord will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles. They will run and not grow weary. They will walk and not be faint. Anne Rand said, money is only a tool. It will take you wherever you wish, but it will not replace you as the driver. Well, I got to tell you, every dollar, our best app ever in the financial world, that walks you through the Ramsey process and builds a budget for you and gives every dollar a name,

every dollar an assignment, is absolutely exploding. The number of people that are signing up for this is going crazy. It's awesome. You can start it for free in the App Store or Google Play, and it will walk you through the whole Ramsey process. And in the first 15 minutes, when you're just filling out the stuff, it's going to help you find margin from day one. And then I'm going to show you how to apply that margin to the fastest, quickest way to build wealth. It's free in the App Store or Google Play, every dollar. So Lee in New York was able to push the button.

She made it, and we're not going to put her back on after all, but she got to do her debt-free screen. We confirmed it. And we have confirmed the Citibank is no longer in her life, which is awesomeness, awesomeness, awesomeness. Mark is in New York as well. Hey, Mark, what's up? Hello. Thanks for having me on. Sure.

How can we help? Yeah, so I'm getting married this coming summer. My fianc and I are working through a bit of a concern. She is in her fourth year of college going to graduate this spring. The way she financed her college was her parents had told her that they were taking care of it, and there was going to be a small loan in her name. So there's a small loan in her name right now. And now they're saying that they have a very, very large parent plus loan that they're just telling her about now,

that they expect her to pay back when she graduates. They're looking to figure out how to that. navigate that. I'm sad for you, man. You're marrying into a weird family. Yeah. This is going to be a long, grown-out bunch of drama. Yeah.

You getting married a year from now? Yeah. Okay. Well, I mean, the answer to your question is simple, but the results are not going to be. The simple answer is your fiancé is not liable for a parent plus loan legal. and if she did not tell them about the loan, if she did not say, mom and dad,

you all sign up for this and I'll pay it, then she's not morally obligated either. And from the story you're telling, she didn't even know about it, much less agree to pay it. Is that correct? Correct. Okay.

How much is the loan? Her federal one, I believe, is $35,000. That's the small one? that's the smaller one and the parent plus one the parent plus one is 100,000. And she's going into her senior year.

Correct. So she's got a year to go, and they're going to pay for that with loans as well? I had used the total for all four years. That's the total numbers that we have. So she's covered until graduation at this point through the student loans.

Okay. Have they already paid her tuition for the entire year? they had put up the parent plus loan for it. So in theory, yes. Well, I mean, if they paid the tuition, they can't unpay the tuition. Yes. Okay. Because when she tells them, no, I'm not going to pay this, I didn't agree to, they're going to be pissed.

Yeah. They don't have a right to be. They're jerks. But they're going to be pissed. How old are you? 23. And what will you two be doing for a living? I'm going to be working in the medical field, and she's going to be a teacher.

What does medical field mean? It's like staffing. Okay. And do you have a four-year degree? Yes. And do you have student loans? I do not. Okay.

Well, this is just a old guy talking now. when you marry a young lady who is getting ready to fracture the relationship with her parents, it's going to be very, very hard for her. She's going to be in a lot of pain. And so your marriage is going to be impacted by that pain. Right. The wedding might be a little awkward, is what we're trying to say. Well, life is going to be awkward.

There's some dysfunction here. Because these people are jerks. You don't spring $100,000. loan on somebody that didn't agree to pay it out of the blue after they get engaged going into their senior year and we don't call you a jerk you're a jerk if you do that this is your kid that you promised to take care of the of the education and then you changed your mind okay now if that's what really happened then these people are jerks now if there's another part of the story we're not getting then there's a different thing but when your daughter your wife says to her parents i'm not

paying this. It's not going to go well, Mark. And I don't think she should pay it, but it's not going to go well. You're going to have a negative experience here. Count on it. Yeah. And I can them throwing that they did a good thing back at her, but I don't feel it. How did she think this was all being paid for? If they just sprung this $100,000 loan and said, oh, by the way, we took this out, you got to pay it. They were taking care of it, and she was going to have a small loan, so she was going off what was on her credit report. for the federal loans. They were taking care of it, but she didn't have any idea that they didn't have any money.

No. If Dave says, hey, I'm taking care of dinner, I assume that means Dave is paying and has no expectation of me to pay him back. So the communication here is terrible. Wait a minute, George. How did I get in this? I'm just saying I'd like a free dinner. I thought I could squeeze that in.

Oh, man. Yeah. Mark, this is a problem relationally. It's not a problem legally, and it's not a problem morally. So the answer is I would, don't you get involved, but I would tell her to tell her parents that mom and dad, I did not agree to pay this and you can't spring it on me in the 11th hour and turn me into a pumpkin. It's not going to work. I'm not going to do pumpkin. You get the pumpkin. You signed up for it and I'm not paying it. I'm so sorry. I hope you understand that you didn't tell me about this. I didn't sign up for it all along. If I have integrity and if you told me about it up front, I would have could have made the decision to whether or not to take this on, but you can't just come along and drop this like a freaking atom bomb into my life, and I'm not going to pay it. I'm sorry. I love you, but no. And then they're going to go, man, y, y, y, y, y, man, and you're going to have to listen to your wife, talk, your fiance,

talk about her parents, and they're going to be the therapist for a while. No, for the next 30 years. Because after it's not this thing, it's going to be something else with these people. These people are screwed in the head. I wouldn't expect a nice wedding gift from them. I wouldn't expect anything that isn't caught drama associated with it for the next 30 years. I really wouldn't. I mean, you know, integrity is integrity and this is just going to bleed over into everything else that goes on here. Now, I am questioning whether this is really what's happening or not. It's bothering me. But I'm going off of Mark's word that this is what his fiance said. And he's got it very dialed in in his mind. But I'm wondering if there's other conversations that the fiancé forgot.

or something like that. So, but if it went down exactly the way he laid out, then we're just going to blame it all on the parents being dysfunctional, screwed in the head, and whatever. And parent plus loans are one of the worst. I hate parents. Not just financially.

This is the re-interest. This comes up all the time. We hear this call all the time. Parents do parent plus loans and then they meant to do it. Then they get a divorce and I can't afford it. So you've got to help me because I'm stuck because your daddy left me after 23 years. Yeah, even if they say, Oh, we're going to pay it.

This is what happens. This is what happens when you do these stupid butt student loans. And let me help you guys. 35,000 is not a little student loan, Mark. It's a big butt student loan. Especially for a teacher. And 100,000 is three times a big butt. Okay?

That's a lot. It's three big butts. That's horrible. So many big butts. This is ridiculous, y'all. I mean, we've now gotten dumb down to where we think 35,000 is a small one. That's a big, that's ridiculous, you guys. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. None of this is okay. And you parents stop doing this crap.

Don't put your kid in a school unless you can pay for it or they can pay for it or both of you together pay for it. This is stupid. Have some integrity to communicate well. Screws up families generationally. This is what the Congress is doing to you. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the princess. of peaks Christ Jesus.