The Ramsey Show - Control the Controllables (Don’t Wait for Washington To Save You)

Episode Date: June 28, 2024

💵 Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app! Jade Warshaw & Dr. John Delony answer your questions and discuss: "My credit card debit is ruining my family," Jade & John's takeaways from the presidential debate, "How do I teach my kids healthy money habits?" "Should I cash out my whole-life policy?" "I feel stuck and don't know how to invest," "How do I get my wife on board to pay off debt?" Support Our Sponsors: Zander Insurance: Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282 for a fast and easy quote today. Yrefy: Call 844-2-RAMSEY or go to Yrefy.com/Ramsey Christian Healthcare Ministries: Find out more at CHMinistries.org/budget Next Steps 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET or click here! 💼 For business and leadership insight, listen to The EntreLeadership Podcast. 📈 For help with investing, get connected with a SmartVestor Pro.  Listen to more from Ramsey Network 🎙️ The Ramsey Show   🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 💰 George Kamel 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions is a paid, non-client promoter of SmartVestor Pros. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

From Ramsey Network, you're listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm your host, Jade Warshaw, joined by your other host, Dr. John Deloney. We're taking calls for the next couple of hours about your life and your money. So give us a call. The number is 888-825-5225. And we will get into it. We'll get knee deep in all the things that you're going on and what's going on in your world. So give us a call.

Let's go straight to these phone lines, John. We got Alex who's in Boulder, Colorado. What's going on, Alex? Hi. I am in a bit of Boulder, Colorado. What's going on, Alex? Hi. I am in a bit of trouble, actually. Okay. So I guess I don't want to even start. So I guess in the last year, I've been building up some debt, kind of hiding it from my family.

And it all recently came out and pretty much is tearing apart my family at this point. How much debt, man? About $50,000. It's all credit card. What are you buying? So that's the worst part is not really buying anything. It's actually streaming. So I used to play video games a lot.

I'm actually in the military, so I used to, you know, play video games as a way to kind of cope. And basically, I got into streaming and watching other streamers play video gaming and it kind of helped pass the time, especially when I'm at work. And I just kind of got into the whole gifting subscriptions. Couldn't really control it. I can say I've never been addicted to anything ever in my life. But this has got to be the closest thing. Yeah, you can't.

Well, you're right. I can't say that, yeah, I guess. The definition of addiction is a pattern of behavior that continues after the person knows that it is hurting me, and I continue to do it anyway. Can I tell you, Alex? I understand. This is me just being straight up with you. Can I tell you, Alex? I can.

This is me just being straight up with you. I don't know if I fully believe you. What else were you spending? $50,000. I only see that in extreme, like you suddenly have somebody else that you're courting or you're or you have, you're struggling with drugs, you're struggling with gambling. It honestly, I know it sounds crazy, but that literally is it. It was, uh, you just sit there watching Twitch and you're just gifting thousands of dollars

away to people. Yes. Uh, I, I, I got so into the hype. Um, uh, you know, you drop that $500, you know, 100 subs, everybody goes crazy. And, you know, they hype you up. And I got so into it. I don't know, it just kept happening. I just kept doing it. And I wasn't keeping track. I wasn't paying attention. You know, as soon as one credit card max go straight to another one. what course of time how how how long did it take you to acquire this debt it was over a year bro i'm having a hard time with it same i'm having a hard time with it like so are you married i i am i'm married uh i have kids and uh and that was that was the hardest part was was once I realized how bad it was, and I disconnected myself from those things.

Dude, you would know, man. Alex, you would know. Like maybe if you're sitting there trying to explain this to your wife or something, she'll buy this, but you had to actually go open new credit cards. I did. So you didn't just open your eyes and there was $50,000. Well, no, so the credit cards were old ones that we had zero balance on, that we had used from years prior when, during COVID, we were using,

my wife wasn't able to work, so it was just my income that was supporting us. And mortgage rates in Colorado are not very good at all, and they haven't been for a long time. And we just basically were using credit cards to kind of survive. Once we came out of that and she was able to start working, we were able to pay them down. We even refinanced the house at one point to be able to get some money back to pay the rest of them off. Let me ask a little bit of a more tactical question. You've got $50,000 in credit cards.

You've got to make minimum payments. Is that what raised the flag to her? How did she not notice, hey, there's hundreds of dollars going out every month in minimum payments? I'm guessing you guys keep the money separate so she couldn't see that. Well, so I actually went and opened up a checking account on the side so that way I could have some of my paycheck. Right. But she's still seeing hundreds of your she's still seeing, hey, hundreds. There's a lot less money coming in than there used to be. And that didn't raise any red flags for her. I'm just trying to understand the landscape of your marriage? All I can say is that

we were never really good with finances when it comes to keeping track. As long as we knew we had money to do things and pay things, we weren't really paying attention as much. I never really cared what she was spending money. She never really cared what I was spending money on. And it didn't get to that.

Like I said, she didn't realize like five or eight hundred dollars could be gone and her not even notice yeah wow bro jade and i make a lot of money and i will tell you i'm like a bird dog i know if money's missing sheesh all right so how can we help man yeah so i mean at this point i mean uh, the basic thing is I'm just terrible with money, obviously. And I have no idea what I'm doing. That's not the problem. That's not the problem, bro. Like, you're living in an altered reality.

Like, you have to go get beneath that. Like, if we take you at your word, which I'm telling you right now, I've just been doing this for too long. I'm struggling with it. If I take you at your word and when MasterCard said, I can't let you have any more money and then you went and opened up another account to keep paying that bill

and this isn't just, oh my gosh, I was just clicking on something and suddenly I was 50,000 bucks in the hole. You knew step by step by step along the way, I'm going to keep going down and if i take you at your word something about watching other people play video games and you giving them five hundred dollars at a time brought you more life made you feel more alive than your own home than your own life that you're creating here. That's what you have to deal with.

Because that's a case of you are living this quiet life of desperation and these little, I can't even wrap my head around this. And like, dude, my whole career has been sitting with people who've made some wild choices and I've never heard this. Not $50,000. I've seen $5,000. I've seen like $10,000. I've never seen $50,000. The second thing is, is then you're a guy that doesn't tell his wife the truth the third thing

is you're a guy that put his kids financially at risk those are the things we need to deal with alex are you telling us that you're done like you you've called in to talk about the money aspect of this so that makes me think okay he thinks he thinks he's finished with this behavior. What is causing you to think that you're finished with this behavior is what I want to know. Otherwise, what I tell you is not going to matter at all. Yeah.

Um, so, I mean, we've, we've started doing, um, family counseling, um,

marriage counseling. Um, I've deleted all my accounts. I've, uh, I've deleted all my accounts. I've given my wife access to every single thing that I have. Did you give her the receipts? Yes, I gave her access to every single bank account

so she can look at the history and see every single transaction. Okay. All right. Good for you. I mean, we've been married for 17 years and I love my wife more than anything. She's my best friend, and I honestly have no idea why I got into it.

I think that's part of the counseling that we're going through. Good for you. I'm trying to understand. Good for you. I'm proud of you. I just know that I don't want to lose that. Okay. I'm proud of you on that, man. You're going to have to work through the money side of it.

You're going to have to follow the baby steps and pay it off. Hang on the line. We'll send you a copy of Total Money Makeover and help you on your journey. Best of luck to you, brother. I've been doing this show for over 30 years. And some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable. Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible. People that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't

have life insurance. When you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills in the middle of next week, in the middle of all that grief, like it's just it is it's terrible. So life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and it doesn't cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies it doesn't cost much you just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here you got to say it out loud and you got to say I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place the cost of stinking pizza to get a free quote

call 800-356-4282 that's 800-356-4282 or go to zander.com this is the ramsey show from ramsey network i'm jade warshaw next to me is dr john deloney best-selling number one author of Building a Non-Anxious Life. Love it. Hey, Jade, last night was the first debate. We'd like to go ahead and give our thoughts on the debate. All right, let's go out to Newark, New Jersey, and talk to Christian.

God help us all. What's going on, Christian? Hey, guys. Thanks for having me. You're welcome. So for about a year, me and my wife were planning on getting a $200,000 addition, but the numbers don't make sense. So I want to sell the house, go live with my parents,

and buy a $900,000 house, our dream home. And she's not really on board with it. Okay. Let me... That's a lot of swings, man. Yeah. Let me run this back. So you were wanting to make a $200,000 addition to the house?

Yes. Okay. And what... What's the addition? Yeah. A two-car garage with about 550 square feet above it which is two bedrooms and a master bath okay and if you did that would it make that house worth nine hundred thousand dollars so my dilemma is our mortgage is 2400 wait a minute wait a minute go let me just answer me

that question right quick. Because then the other plan was that you were going to go buy a $900,000 house. That's why I'm trying to understand. Right now, we could sell our house for $700,000. Okay. So if you did the addition, you're hoping that you putting that money in, you would at least make it... I don't think it would be worth $900, I think it would possibly be $800 or less. Oh, okay. Because of the comps. Okay. So the addition would suddenly make it beyond the nicest house in this area?

Yes. Okay, gotcha. Got it. Okay, so now tell us more. My screen says that your wife doesn't agree with this. No, so if we put $100 of our own money in $100 HELOC, that brings our mortgage from $2,400 to $3,600. And if they raise our taxes, that would put us close to $4,000 a month.

And I'm not comfortable with that. What percentage of your take-home income is that? We take home around $10 a month okay okay so there's a lot wrong with this initial plan a i don't like you borrowing against your home to do upgrades because you're putting your own home on the line in order to do that. Why is there this urgency to make, to do all of this? Why is there an urgency to do a HELOC? And if you don't do that, then we've got to move and buy a $900,000 house. Why is there this sense of we've got to do something? Well, we have three kids, six, eight, and 10, and the boys share a room.

So we want to, we want something bigger. We have a big eating kitchen with no dining room, so we want a dining room to be able to host family, host events. And the clock is ticking. We want our dream home, and I feel if we sell our home, we'd be in a position to buy a beautiful home, and half an acre, cul-de-sac, extra bedrooms. But, bro, what do you think the payment on a $900,000 house is going to be?

Right, with today's rates. Well, it would be less than getting an addition because if we sell the house after realtor fee, we would take home a little over $450,000. Okay, so you put half down on it? How? Oh, you've got 100 cash. Oh, you've got the 100 cash. Okay. We have close to 300, but I wouldn't... So how much in all are you putting down between cash and equity?

Oh, on the addition? No, no, no. If you do what you say you do, which is you sell your current home, you take that equity, you put it towards a down payment, and you put other cash that you have sitting around towards a down payment on a $900,000 house, how much cash is that that you plan on putting down? I would want to put down $600,000, $650,000 tops.

Okay, $650,000 tops. And that gets you where you want to be. What we would teach is the payment all in HOAs, everything, taxes, insurance is no more than 25% of your take-home pay. So that gets you there. That gets me to 32, 3300. Okay. So where's, Okay, so tell me where your wife is in all of this. sell the house, move in with my parents that are a mile away, and take our time, six to nine months, and find our dream home. Take that $600,000, put in a six-month CD of 5.5% interest. Does she like your parents? Yeah. Originally, when we renovated the first floor during COVID, we stayed there for four months.

How old are you guys? 35 and 37. Ooh, with three kids? So a family of five going in? I don't know any wife in America that would want to take three kids and their husband and move back in with their in-laws.

I don't understand the urgency. Me neither. You seem like you've got to panic. Here's the deal. I shared a room with my brother my entire Me neither. You seem like there's like, you got to panic. Here's the deal. I shared a room with my brother my entire childhood until my sister went to college. And was it great? Nope. Did I hate it?

Yep. Did we all live? Yep. Like, would it be cool to have a dining room? Absolutely. Do you have to have one? No. Like, I don't understand what this, like, you've got something like, like on fire inside of you what is it man enough to sell your home i don't know what's going to happen before the

election or during election so now we're talking homie listen i've been there i've been an anxious lunatic mess i sold my house and moved my family into a residence hall a dorm dorm. I've been there. You got to take a breath and don't do the next wild thing. You're trying, Brene Brown calls it dress rehearsing tragedy. You've already created this new tax hike that's going to happen and you've already figured out how you're not going to be able to pay for it. You've already figured out this other bad thing that's going to happen and you're trying to solve it now. You're thinking about that. Man, your family needs a stable presence right now. They don't need running around and selling this and moving this and going into my mom and dad's house. I've been where you are and I've been so scared and I walk around with my family's asleep,

not knowing what's coming. I've been there, man. You got to go talk to somebody I'm telling you you're gonna end up making a huge mistake either relationally either financially or both so what do you suggest I didn't realize the addition is around $300 a square foot for like top of the line I don't want you borrowing money for anything.

If this is a home that y'all love... If we have about $250,000 to $300,000 in our savings or stock portfolio, you suggest we just pay it outright instead of taking a HELOC? I would never put my family's house on the block for a living room, ever, or for a garage. Well, we already have a garage with a sunroom attached to it so here's the thing here's the thing it's not about that here's the thing a my take on this is a i don't want you making this decision until a couple of things are a little bit more in focus number one you and your wife have to be on the same page and it doesn't sound like you are it sounds like this is kind of one of your crazy things. And she's like, dude, cool out.

We're fine. That's what it sounds like from what you've said. Number two, I'm with John. If you guys do get on the same page and decide you want to move on, yes, do it all in cash. Whether you decide to add an addition to your existing home, whether you decide to move forward, the keys here are we're using cash. and if we're doing the down payment deal we're putting all the equity on the down payment because ultimately we want this house paid off and I don't want that payment to be any more than 25% like I talked about before so those things need to get cleared up I just right now based off what John asked you based off of what you said it feels like you're running away from something and a house should be something that you

run towards and you're happy about and you both want to do it and it's not like this thing that you do out of panic or fear it's a thing that you do out of this is the next right step for our family and you can take your time and you have think things through and there's choices and right now it just feels like a somebody pulled the fire alarm and he's like where do we go the election and christian listen i've been there and here's the worst part. You go with you. Whatever you sell, whatever you buy, you go with you.

So tonight after dinner, I want you to hold your wife's hand and say, I've never said this out loud, honey, but I'm scared. And I'm going to talk to somebody before I just take the whole family on another adventure. She will probably breathe and sleep deeper than she has in months. Your move, my brother. We'll be right back. You know, it doesn't take a degree in statistics to realize this one stinks. 93% of undergraduate private student loans are co-signed. So when you're delinquent and drowning, mom or papa or uncle Joe is stuck in that financial stress along with you. But there is a way out.

Why refi? Why refi offers a custom refinancing option with a fixed rate loan based on your ability to pay. And the average interest rate why refi offers is 3.9%, which can significantly reduce your monthly payment and decrease your total cost. Contact Y-Refi at 844-2-RAMSI or go to Y-Refi.com slash Ramsi. That's 844-2-RAMSI or the letter Y, then R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsi. Y-Refi is not licensed by the California Department of Financial Protection and Innovation. Y-Refi is not authorized by the New York State Department of Financial Services to service any New York loans. Funding may not be available in all states.

You're listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me is Dr. John Deloney. John, did you watch the debate last night? I actually did not. I was on that text thread with you and rachel cruz and and others and then i got caught up this morning um but i think it's important to have this conversation based on this last caller yeah i don't know anybody the whole building is buzzing we have a thousand people that work here it's buzzing my phone was blowing up all evening all morning till midnight yeah and i did watch some of the after stuff if anybody is listen watch that last night and is at peace um you should probably go see somebody right i don't know somebody who's

not their heart's not beating a little bit faster yeah like completely unbothered what is happening? And my, like, please, if you've ever been at the slightest bit convinced that the person in the White House is going to save you. Oh, now we know. I think the answer, we all got our answer. And so what that means is we have to look in the mirror. Yeah. And say, okay, as for me in my house,

what's this going to look like? Yeah. And the worst thing you can do is, as my great mentor, Dr. Andy Young used to say, facts are your friends, man, when you're heading into look like. Yeah. And the worst thing you can do is, as my great mentor, Dr. Andy Young, used to say, fax your friends when you're heading into a crisis. Yeah. What is true here? What is true here is maybe in your house, we go out way too much and we've got to start

putting some money aside. Yeah. Maybe in your house, all right, we're about to buy a fancy car. We're not buying that car. Maybe as for you in your house, we've got to pay some, it's time for us to take control of our money. And it's time. Yeah. And by the way way if you already know who you're going to vote for turn the news off turn it off turn it off that's the word if you already know don't just based in

this no don't based in it um but here's the deal as for me and my house that's where we are and we've been saying that day's been saying that for 30 years yeah it's the person in your house that's going to make the most difference um so my hope is that people start meeting their neighbors and they start asking each other like hey man how can we figure this thing out and let's go from there yeah let's go from there i have zero to add to that because it's exactly right and i would be beating a dead horse by adding well i mean it's it's true you know i i probably fed into it a little bit too much last night. I stayed up late. And you're right, John. The one takeaway is I just got to do what I got to do.

Like, I got to do what I have to do for my family. And the changes that, I mean, it sounds trite, but it's true. Like, the change that you want to see, you have to start doing those things in your own home. If you want taxes to go down, which means you get more money in your pocket, then that means you've got to do the things in your own budget to get more money back in your pocket. If you want, you know,

there'd be more jobs, then you need to start applying for more jobs. It's like, do more and do those things and try not to let, it's like, yeah, there's just things you control the controllables. There you go.

There's things that you can control and there's things that you can't control. And you know, and if you need to make your phone calls and make your senior email, send them, make your phone calls, get on the horn. Can I just say this? Like this is,

I'm going to get off my soapbox after this. If there was ever a time, pray for your leaders, pray for the people who have leadership over you. That's the best thing you can do. And, and all the energy that you want to put into, on social and, oh my gosh, I can't believe this.

Like if you're that person, like spend some of your time praying for our leaders and pray for our country. Pray for yourself. Pray for your own like interaction and reaction to all this stuff. Because everybody who's listening to this is not a Christian person. I am. So just filter it through this, what Jade thinks, like we're thermostats in this world and we have the ability to set the temperature by the way we react and the things that we say and how we

handle the things that might cause other people to like do that. And so like, let's, let's do that. Like let's be thermostats and let's set the temperature at a nice, comfortable 68. 68, is that good? A buddy of mine was texting last night. He's a pastor. He's a great friend. And he just said, I'm praying for our country. And I just wrote back, pray louder, pray louder.

And then after a while, I was following along with the debate. And I said, I don't think you've got the right number. And he said, I keep getting a return to my prayer. New phone. Who dis? It was awesome. That's great. New phone.

Who dis? Wow. Okay. But, yeah, just so you know, like, we know what's going on, but we are not going to. I know some of y'all are like, get into it, guys. Get into it. We won't. We shan't.

As for me and my house, we shan't as for me and my house we shan't let's go out to portland and talk to jessica what up jessica hi john hi jade i'm so excited to talk to you guys you are my heroes we're happy to talk to you too we're glad you're here that's a low bar jessica at least watch the marvel movies all the time the time. No, thank you so much. What's up? But I'm hoping that you can help me with a huge mess. My husband and I are on baby step six, and we've kind of landed into this big financial mess,

not of our own choosing. My husband's dad and his wife are at the end stage of their life. My husband's dad is on hospice care right now, and he's got maybe a couple of weeks left. And his wife is borderline dementia, and she doesn't really have the ability to hold it together enough to keep track of their finances. So it's something that my husband and I have taken over for them just in the last couple of weeks. And what we found out is super scary. They have about $70,000 worth of debt and only $18,000 saved. And their monthly income is, it was almost $7,000 with him alive. But then when he passes, it's probably going to drop down to around $3,000 a month. And that's all that they have, all that she has,

to kind of keep things running for the rest of her life. And part of that $70,000 is an RV trailer that he just bought last year, and he owes $53,000 on it. But it's only worth, we went to look to see what we could sell it for, and we think we can maybe sell it for $35, maybe $40 if we're lucky. And what we're wondering is, because it needs a repair also, it's broke. So it needs about $4,000 worth of repairs just to get it sellable. To be worth $35.

And we just wonder, yeah, to be worth $35. And his name is the only name that's on it. His wife's name is not on the RV. And we're wondering if we can let it go back to the creditors. No. Or if we should work to pay it off. No, don't do a voluntary repo. That's going to be horrible.

I wouldn't do that. They've got $18,000 saved. Assuming that you have control over this money, I would just take that $18,000 and bridge the gap and get rid of it's a there's a trailer how much is the trailer the trailer is only three and we already have it sold so okay so it's just the car yeah and is there any life insurance here when he passes? Yeah. There might be about $30,000, but I'm worried that they're not going to pay because it's a non-smoking policy, and he only stopped smoking a year ago. So I don't understand. I don't know if they're going to say, well, he only stopped smoking a year ago, so now we're not going to pay. I don't know how that works. You'll have to get with somebody to find out the clarity on that.

But I think that you can clear out a lot of the the just craziness of this by selling like you said you sold the trailer already do the same thing with this rv if you need to close the gap use that 18 000 that they have saved or at least keep a thousand of it but use the 17 000 to do that and then the three thousand dollars a month okay so tell me about the mother-in-law um tell me i hate to ask these questions but like timeline like what's the situation if she ends up you know being alone is she coming to live with you guys is she going into care a care facility she doesn't she's not a good patient she would make a terrible patient in a care facility or a hospital she she really actually doesn't want to live after

he dies she um i feel like she's going to deteriorate very quickly so she's going to have to come stay with you guys well she's a smoker and we don't want her to smoke in our house well then then you might end up putting her in an apartment where she's got a, you know, a care nurse or something like that. Whatever it is, my point is that judging by the numbers, you guys are going to be on the hook for figuring out the best way to do this. And I want to make sure that you guys get the power of attorney that you need ahead of time so that when the time comes, you can make the call. Like if we're selling their house, we're selling that house so that we can provide care for her. They have no house. They have no assets whatsoever.

Okay. Are their siblings involved? No, we're the only ones. Then you guys are definitely going to be the ones that are making these calls. And just know financially, put yourself in the best situation that you can, because where these numbers fall might leave you guys on the hook to be shelling out a little bit of cash, unfortunately. But you're on top of it. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, when you go against what society thinks is, quote, normal, like avoiding debt, for example,

it might seem weird at first, and that is totally okay. We want you to be weird if that means doing things intentionally, including how you spend your health care dollars. And want you to be weird if that means doing things intentionally, including how you spend your healthcare dollars. And one way to be intentional is with Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM isn't health insurance. They're a health cost-sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of healthcare costs without sacrificing their freedom. Find out more and join at chministries.org slash budget. That's chministries.org slash budget. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me is Dr. John Deloney. And if you haven't, guys, I want you to check out our Ramsey Trusted Pros. If you're talking about buying a house, if you're talking about selling a house,

our Ramsey Trusted Pros shop the market and compare insurance quotes so that you don't have to. So your pro will compare quotes, discounts, and bundling deals for you at no extra cost. Ramsey Trusted Pros will make sure that you have all the coverage that you need and nothing that you don't. Ramsey Trusted Pros are interviewed, vetted, and coached to make sure they're market experts who have your best interest at heart. So you want to make sure that you have the best coverage. That's what you need to do. Before I said buying and selling a house, it goes to show what I was talking about. I'm talking about insurance here, people. You got to have insurance for houses too, man. I mean, you do do but what i'm talking about here is if you're trying to get insurance for all the things that we say that you need insurance for which is uh you know for your home

obviously for your auto life insurance last call renters insurance uh even identity theft insurance is a big one uh what else there's a lot umbrella insurance on that last call like you've got a husband who's passing away yeah oh life insurance and then you have a kid saying how am i gonna take care of mom she's not doing well and there's 30 000 bucks that may be a fraudulent policy yeah let's talk about that not helpful guys talk about that john because so many people i cannot tell you how many times I say, do you have life insurance? And they go, oh yeah, I have it through my work. No, that is not like you're doing good. If you get $25,000, it's a high five policy. That's enough to get you through the funeral. Yes. That's it. Pay a bill. That's it. And we're talking about 10 to 12 times your income.

The whole purpose of insurance is to mitigate risk. It's to cover the things that you can't afford to pay for. And one of those things when it comes to life insurance is who are the people that are dependent on your income? In this case, the wife with dementia would have been extremely dependent on his income. So if he passes away, which we know, you know, over time, then she needs that money. And so we say 10 to 12 times what you were making in a year. That's what you need for the people who depend on your income. So when it comes to insurance, term life, you need it, guys. You need it. And if you're like, Jade, all of this is so overwhelming for me. I used to

be that person. We will do this for you. Again, if you don't have the right coverage, if you're not sure how to find it, if you go to ramseysolutions.com slash coverage, we'll make sure that you have everything that you need. And by the way, let me just throw this in because it's important to note, it's not a baby step. Okay. So for all the folks listening, because I know we have a lot of people who are in baby step one, baby step two, this is not you going, well, when I'm out of debt, I'll do that. No, you do it as soon as you find out about it. And I get it. You're like, Jay, that's the last thing I want to spend money on. Don't you know I have bills? Yes, I do.

But you don't know what's going to happen tomorrow. But I do know this. I've sat with multiple women whose husbands are dead in the next room. And they look at me and they have said these almost identical words. I don't know what I'm going to do next. And my conversation shifts from how do we grieve and who do we call to?

We're going to have to help you get a job on Monday. Yeah. Don't put your spouses in that position. Even a car accident. Right. Because you don't have the right coverage. Yeah. And you hit somebody and then they hit somebody.

That's just hollowing me, dude. Bro. I remember those. It's a lot, but we're here for you. We're here for you. We will take the hard part out of it. Again, ramsaysolutions.com slash coverage. Let us do that for you. All right. Let's go to Jaden, who's in Denver, Colorado. What's going on, Jaden? Hi there. Yeah. So I'm 20 years old. I make about $40,000 a year and I have three kids at home. I'm $22,000 in debt. Jaden?

I'm trying to figure out how to do that. Can you hear me? Yeah, you broke out for a minute. I'm sorry. So yeah, I'm 20 years old, have three kids at home. I make about $40,000 a year and I'm $22,000 in debt. I'm just trying to figure out how to pay off this debt and kind of just set an example for my kids.

I kind of do the same thing that I did. Is it just you raising the kids or do you have a wife? I have a wife, yeah. Is she working or is she at home with the kids? She's at home with the kids. She was working right before she had the baby

and then the company, they had sold to another company and let her go. Okay. So she chose to stay home by default, not because that was the plan. It was like as a reaction. Right. I mean mean child care out here is just extremely uh expensive so that's another factor of it too what do you do for

living man i work in asphalt okay is there what are the ways you can get this income up you got three kids you're in denver colorado there's just no way you can get this income up? You've got three kids. You're in Denver, Colorado. There's just no way you can support a family on that, man. And you know that. Yeah. I know. We've been just nickel and diming it right now. I have applied for other jobs.

I'm trying to get HVAC certified and become a plumber and electrician. Okay, great. Are you actively in a program? No. I'm about a week into after applying. So I applied about last week. What does that cost?

So if I go through the company that I applied through, they pay for the schooling and I just have to sign an 18 month contract with them. Okay and what will you make? What will that how will that change your income? Coming out of school the foreman let me know they they had a guy coming out of school at 38 an hour. Okay. And you'll be able to work full-time at 40 hours? Right, yes. Yeah, right now I'm making about 22 an hour working 60 hours a week.

Okay. Okay, so that's going to be a nice jump for you. How old are the kids? Oh, I have a five-year-old, a three-year-old, and a three-month-old. Ooh, Lordy. Okay, yeah, you're in the thick of it. So the five-year-old is going to be going to kindergarten soon, yeah? That'll help. Yeah. Help your wife out.

And what was she doing before this? What was she earning? Does she have a degree? Tell me more about her. No, so she was doing housekeeping at a local hospital. Okay, what was she earning? She was getting about $35,000 a year. Okay.

So there was a time, there was a life where you guys were making, you know, almost $80,000 a year, and now you're down to $40,000. Is there a situation where you can make this work with child care? As of right now, no. I've tried, because I've got sisters and brothers all around, and kind of reached out to them about maybe paying them to watch my kids. And it's just, it's not. It's not happening. Yeah, it's not going to happen.

Even like a part-time? I just want to make sure you guys are attacking this from every angle. Even like a mom's day out so even like a part-time is there i just want to make sure you guys are attacking this from every angle even like a mom's day out where she can work part-time something where she can bring in i mean even eight hundred dollars a month would change you guys's world right now or she gets a job at a daycare center right yeah i really haven't thought about that um the other alternative brother is you're going to get done 60 hours pouring asphalt in this madhouse summer heat, and then you got to go drive Uber, man.

Y'all just don't have enough money. Right. And bro, I've had two kids. I haven't had three. I can hear how tired you are, but I've never even personally experienced this. I wouldn't wish that on anybody working asphalt out in the summer

to have to go drive but man y'all got to have some more money when does this uh hvac thing turn around for you when do you expect to be making that salary that hourly so yeah so um starting out with them i'd be making so 24 an hour and two nights a week for five years, I'd be going to school. So as soon as I, probably in about five years. Oh, it's five years? This is a five-year turnaround? Yeah, so about five years I'll be making close to $40 an hour.

Okay, we got to do something sooner than that. You can't hold on for five years. Yeah. What's your living situation? Are you renting? Are you in a house? Tell us more. Yeah, I'm renting right now. My wife talks about buying a house.

You're not near it. You're not near that. Yeah. Hey. That's exactly what I told her. You're between a rock and a hard place. And the only thing that's going to change this, this is not something you can cut away at a budget.

Although we're going to make sure you have a budget before you leave here. We got to find ways to get the income up. And unfortunately, I think some of it lies with you, but I think your wife holds a key in this as well. I think there's something she can do part-time, on the side, at nights. You guys have to look at your schedule and you're playing a game of chess to find out when there's hours that you can do something, whether it's from home, whether it's getting in your car and driving around and she brings the kids with her to do the delivery.

But you've got to get creative. There's not going to be anything fun about this, but you are going to find margin. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me is Dr. John Deloney. We're taking your calls about your life and money, So give us a call. The number is 888-825-5225. And we will take our best shot at giving you our advice, what we would do if we were in your shoes. That's how you have to filter this.

You're grown, but we're telling you what we would do, okay? So we're going to go straight to these phone lines where we've got Jordan. He's in Portland, Oregon. What's going on, Jordan? Hey. Hey. How are you? Hey. Hey. How are you?

I'm great. How can we help? So I'm trying to think of the question that it was. Oh, how can I better budget my money? I feel like I'm in a pickle. I make decent money. In fact, I think I make real good money and there's really no excuse why I should be broke. Well, what's really good money? Well, let's see here. Last year I did about 270, about 280. Okay. And the year before that I did about two or 330, about 330. And I'm in sales. So I average like on a bad year, I'll hit a hundred. My best year, 330. I average about two, 200. Okay, great. What, uh, can I ask what kind of sales? So I'm a freight broker. I work in a trucking.

Sweet. All right. Is it just you? Do you have a family? Uh, yeah. Wife in trucking. Sweet. All right. Is it just you? Do you have a family? Yeah, wife and five kids. Wow. That's why you'd be broke, Jordan. You got lots of mouths to feed, my man. Yes, sir. Oh, and my two nieces live with us now, too. Because why not? Why not? Wow. And so I'm guessing your wife's not working or is she taking care of the kids? Tell me more. Yeah, she's a stay-at-home mom. She takes care of the kids and holds down the castle. Okay, so she's queen of the castle.

You're making $280,000. You said, how can I budget my money better? Are you using a budget or is that something you know you need to start? Yeah, it's something I know I need to start. I was doing good for a while, and then my buddy mentioned, he said something about, oh, yeah, you got to get this Dave Ramsey book. And buddy mentioned he said something about oh yeah you gotta you gotta get this Dave Ramsey book and I thought he was talking about the chef I said no I don't need to know how to cook he said no not Gordon Ramsey Dave Ramsey and he just kind of gave me some insight I googled it and there's like 20 books and I didn't know where to start and there was a phone number so I called it and someone answered. And what happened?

So I was doing good for a while. I paid off my cars. I was saving money. Paid off the truck. Paid off the car. Paid off like 80% of all of our credit card debt. Did you cut up the credit cards? No, I still have about five of them. Do they have balances? One of them has, so my wife has an older one that's about 17, 18,000 and I have one that's currently about 10 or 11,000. Okay. Okay. What else? What other debt do you have? That's it though. We sold our house. We just rent. Oh gosh. So it was like that. Did you sell your house because it was a drain on you or because of another reason?

It was, we got, I ended up getting like this, some kind of loan where the, it was, it started off at 4%, but then it fluctuated with like the market. Okay. Adjustable rent. Yeah. Okay. So youuated with the market. Okay, adjustable rate. Yeah, okay. So you're out of that. You're renting now. This is a wonderful time for you guys to just hit reset. If I'm you, you need to pay off these credit cards.

You need to cut them up today. If I told you right now, if I said, go get those credit cards and cut them up, would you do it? Seriously? Yeah, do it right now. 100%. Unless you've given up on your question. No, you know what?

Yes, I would. Do it right now. Go get them, bro. John and I, we'll fill the space. Go get those cards. Oh, my heart's racing right now. Oh, my God. And listen, your heart's racing.

I want you to feel that because that is the security you have outsourced to that stupid piece of plastic. And the power we're trying to give you, as the great Rage Against the Machine said, I want you to take your power back to where you are your own bank. You have an emergency fund sitting in a savings account that if anything happens with you and those 117 children that you have, you're fine you got no worries because you're your own bank but you have put all of your like hopes and dreams and potential you're going to bail me out on visa man and they don't deserve that role in your life that's so true. Do you have any cash? Oh, my bad. We asked two questions. You got any cash? I have about $900 in checking and $1,100 in savings.

Perfect. That's perfect. That's all you need for right now. Because we're going to get you on the track to answer the question that you called in with is, how can I budget my money better? The first step to budgeting your money better is putting your money back in your pocket and stop giving it away in debt payments every month. Stop giving it away to credit card companies. And you go from being a dependent person, a person who's dependent on credit cards to a person who's independent on the money that they have. So case in point, you got those bad boys ready? Yeah. and I thought I had five. I have six.

Oh, even better. They're having their own babies in there, man. You've got a fertile, myrtle house going on there. Here's what I want you to do. I want you to tell us the name of the card as you're cutting it up and tell us once it's clipped. Hold it up. Say American Express gone forever.

Clip it. You want to use the card shredder? I'll use the card shredder. It's safer for my mind. Hold on. I've got the card shredder? I'll use the card shredder. It's safer for my mind. Hold on. I've got the card shredder right here. All right. Turn this bad boy on.

Turn it on. Crank it up. Here it is. All right. This one's a U.S. bank. Let her go. Bye, Felicia. There it is.

And then I got two Kohl's. Kohl's. You're a Kohl's. Who needs them? I got two of them. You got enough khakis, brother. You're good. Khakis. No, then I got Freedom Unlimited. Oh, you're about to find

your own freedom. Come on now. I got Capital One, Venture One. Oh, what's in your wallet? Money. And then Capital One, Venture One Platinum. Oh, Platinum. Oh, that one felt good when they mailed you that one. You felt like you was somebody, didn't you? I did. Let it go. Shred them. What else you got? Oh, my God. There they are. That's it. That one felt good when they mailed you that one. You felt like he was somebody, didn't you? I did. Let it go. Shred

him. What else you got? Oh my god, there they are. That's it. That's all six. Dude, that's it. Is that your wife yelling, what are you doing? I need you to see it. There is a whole... Dude, Jordan, there is a whole studio audience of people here at this show. They are cheering for you. They are ripping their shirts

off. They are so proud of what you just did because those people know that you just changed your life. I feel like I'm going to throw up. I know. Never forget this feeling right here. Ever. Never. Game on?

Damn it. Yeah. Game on. Game on, brother. brother game on when's your next paycheck come next friday all my bills are due and i don't think i have you're gonna make this happen you got your emergency fund we're gonna give you everything you need when we get off this call you're gonna have every dollar we're gonna hook you up with the coaching that you need you're gonna do everything you need to get on track. We're going to get these bills paid off. We're on it now because the key to getting out of debt is you can't keep creating it. You can't keep depending on it. It can't keep being that security blanket. And when you rip that

off, John, you feel it. That's exactly right. And brother, listen, we're going to get, like she said, we're going to give you total money makeover the like she said, we're going to give you Total Money Makeover, the book, for free. We're going to give you a year subscription to every dollar that attaches to your bank so you and your wife

can learn to budget together for free. We're going to hook you up with a phone number so you can call a financial coach and you can help you figure out which bills

and how to tell this creditor we're going to move this one to over here to help you navigate what's coming your way. And they will pick up. Yes, they will pick up when you call. But listen, today is your first step towards being free. Really free. Today is your first step to taking back your house. You make a quarter million

dollars. I want you to feel like it. Proud of you, my brother. So proud. Few people would do that. This guy's bought in. This is Ramsey Network. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me is Dr. John Deloney. And hey, thank you for being here. We're glad you're here.

We're glad you're a listener of the show, whether you listen on podcast or YouTube or all the other ways that you can enjoy the show. Thanks for being here. And if it's really meant something to you, do us a favor if you can, like the show you can enjoy the show. Thanks for being here. And if it's really meant something to you, do us a favor if you can, like the show, subscribe to the show, but more importantly, man, share the show. If you share this with other people,

it's a wildfire. It can't be stopped. And that's something that you can do for free and it helps everybody involved. So if you wouldn't mind it, we would love it if you did that. Ramsey Show question of the day. All right, today's question comes from Bethany in Alabama.

I homeschool and I also have two work from home jobs. My husband is a Christian and works in a Christian environment. That's usually how they set it up. Something bad's about to happen. I know. But he goes back and forth between saving and overspending. He makes twice as much as I do, but he's currently in spending mode. That's a nice way to put that.

I've had to use my savings to pay bills since he spent so much. The last time we talked about it, he said that due to inflation, it's impossible for him to spend less. He even said that the problem is my fault for staying home and not making as much money as he does. He constantly wants to keep up with his coworkers as far as toys. They think it's nonsense to save a lot as we should be, oh golly,

as we should be trusting God. And God doesn't require over sacrifice. Don't even know what that means. How do we get out of this mess? Wow. I'm reeling from that. Okay. The thing that's clear here is you guys aren't on the same page about

anything as it relates to truly, honestly, it sounds like how you're raising your family and how you're handling your money. And y'all go to a church with a strange doctrine yeah very strange yeah we're taking some things out of context there but that's another that's another conversation um it sounds like there's some animosity there he's feeling some type of way about you staying home with these kids and raising them as homeschool i think it's deeper i think it sounds like he is a toddler with the salary and he thinks he gets to do whatever he wants whenever he wants. Yeah. And if she has a problem with it, then she

can just go fix it herself. True. Yeah. But if I'm like, when you throw out, listen, let's be real. You're married. I'm married. You get in the heat of an argument. There might be something you throw out that is off base, right? Like you shouldn't have said that. But when you say certain things that are kind of like out of the blue, it's like, wow, you really have a problem with that. Otherwise, why would you just even up and say that? There you go. And I'm like, the fact that he's saying

it's your fault for staying home, not it's your fault. I mean, it would really help if you could make more money. But if you say staying home, you're indicating that you don't think she's doing much while she's at home and she's not making enough money either. So that's problem number one.

You guys need to get on the same page number two is now he's over here saying it's impossible for him to spend spend less as bullcrap on a stick in a box that's just not true like like a few years ago i went on a guitar buying binge you know what i haven't bought in years guitars and i'm just trying to think of toys because i've got to spend money on other things that are more important that's true right things got expensive we even cut out bacon for god's sakes the deloney's cut out bacon it's it's expensive well there's another side to that where it could be that he's okay let me let me play the other side of that which is some people just are they're such tight wads and it's like you want

me to cut back even more there's nothing left to cut and i don't know if that's the situation here it could be what john is saying it could be what i'm saying well she's saying he's buying so much toys and that she's having to pay his bills yeah because he's spending so much yeah it's it's not good um she said i think it's nonsense to save he thinks it's nonsense to save and that we should be trusting god so now we're to the third question the third problem which is you guys have it's nonsense to save he thinks it's nonsense to save and that we should be trusting god so now we're to the third question the third problem which is you guys have it's even like went into your spirituality of like how you believe and what you believe and what this means and what this doesn't mean what do you recommend john i put you on the spot i'm like i'm gonna roll this to

you well i mean it's like it's like they got a faith based budget, which means we're just gonna spin and hopefully God will pay the bills. And that just doesn't work. It's just not life. And so, um, I, I,

I guess Bethany, what I would tell you is this, your marriage is in way more trouble than you're willing to admit. It's in a, it's in a, it's in a mess. And your husband is using your stay at home um you staying at home your husband is using theology your husband is using everything to avoid the responsibility of

being an adult husband and father he's acting like a child and i'm confident that there's a other side of this story that if he was telling his side that's right that bethany you're not your hands aren't clean in this either y'all have to sit down with somebody and the conversation has to begin with i don't think our marriage is going to make it unless we control alt delete and build a new marriage from the ground up ready go yeah short of that you're not gonna fix it over here and solve this you can play whack-a-mole and if he's listening to his buddies like this more than he's listening to a wife who's homeschooling working two jobs and saying please help um your marriage is it's on real real real real shaky ground yeah this is not good this is

not good it reminds me of a joke i don't know if i can let it rip all right there's this joke i'm not gonna tell this well but it's basically this. Joe, put your finger on the dump button, buddy. There's a guy and he's stranded on an island. And he sees an airplane go by, but he doesn't signal it. He says, God will save me. And then he sees a boat go by and he doesn't signal it. He says, God will save me.

And then one other thing comes by. He's like, it's okay, God will save me. And he dies on the island. And when he gets to heaven, he's like, God, why didn't you save me? And he's like, bro, I will save me and he dies on the island and when he gets to heaven he's like god why didn't you save me and he's like bro i sent you an airplane i sent you a boat i sent you a guy to come get you and you said no to all of it so anyway and listen if you're let's say if you're buying toys and i'm sure that's four wheelers guns guitars grills whatever that yeah those are those are purchases that you need to sit down and talk through with your spouse and um if you're having to pull from savings to

over pay bills you don't have enough money to just have said hey you buy whatever you want i'll buy whatever i want and if you're a husband and this i'm just using that because it's here but it includes wives too if you think i don't have to I'm just using that because it's here, but it includes wives too. If you think I don't have to ask anybody because this is my house, then you do not have a marriage. No. You don't have a marriage.

You're not building something together to move everybody forward. You're a selfish child. You've got to work together to build a future. And man, Bethany, we'll be thinking about you, man. This is a tough one. Tough, tough, tough one. That is tough. Thank you for the question. Speaking of questions, let's take another social question. I've got one here. Okay. This one is Karen from Instagram. And she says,

the economy really has me nervous. I know the stocks I have through work are down and I want to save as much as I can. I was wondering if it would be better to keep money in the bank or credit union. I see videos saying that the banks are going to crash as much as I can. I was wondering if it would be better to keep money in the bank or credit union. I see videos saying that the banks are going to crash, and it really scares me. I don't have a whole lot of money, but it's mine. With the cost of everything going up, my anxiety is crazy. What do you say to that? I'll say, what do you say, Jade?

I say, you know, one thing about the stock market is it's a roller coaster. You ride it when it's up, you ride it when it's down, and the way we talk about it here is really the idea of dollar cost averaging. One thing about the stock market is it's a roller coaster. You ride it when it's up, you ride it when it's down. And the way we talk about it here is really the idea of dollar cost averaging. No matter what, you're putting aside whatever that percentage is every month, especially if you're out of debt and you have your emergency savings. You're doing 15% every single month, no matter what, if things are going up, if things are going down over time, that average is out. And you can look back on a 20-year track record, 30-year track record of the S&P 500, and you'll

see there are times in economic, you know, dishevel or whatever where it goes down, or if there's a war or something crazy happens, the Great Recession, but then it pops up and it pops up and usually goes like never before. And so there's really nothing to fear other than the moment, like in the moment, you're like, oh my gosh. But that's why we say when you invest, listen, this is not like your normal bank account. You don't need to be checking that every single day. You'll drive yourself nuts because somebody could hiccup. Joe Biden hiccups and all of a sudden something happens. You know what I'm saying? So don't check it every single day. I just got a note from my SmartVestor Pro.

What'd he say? The S&P 500 had its best May since 2009. So here's the deal. There's always going to be wars and rumors of wars. That's right. And there's always going to be people telling you it's all coming down and it's all, wow. Yeah. As for me and my house, Karen, I've got money in a high-yield savings account because cash makes me feel a little bit safe. I also have money in my investments, in my mutual funds.

I don't have money in stocks because I'm not better than the super AI computers that they're using to trade those things. I can't win that game, and you can't either. So have a little bit of cash, have an emergency fund, and then put the rest in. And listen, if all the banks go under, you're going to have way bigger fish to fry, sister. So just... That's so true. If all the banks go out, I need cans of beans.

That's right. I need batteries. That's right. You need wood for fire. Yes, we're good. This is The Ramsey Show. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw, joined by Dr. John Deloney.

We're taking calls all hour long, 888-825-5225 is the number to call if you want to get involved. And we hope that you do. We're going to New York, New York, where we've got Harrison on the line. What's going on, Harrison? Hi, Jane and John. How are you guys today? Excellente. Great. Well, my question is about a whole life insurance policy and if I should take the cash surrender value and use it for a partial down payment on a condo. Yes. Yes. For cashing out the whole life policy. We'll talk about more about the condo. How much is the, how much is the cash out? Cash surrender value is about 50 K right

now. Okay. Um, do you already have term life insurance in place? I do not, but I do not have any dependents. So I didn't know necessarily if that was needed. Right now you don't. How old are you? I'm 23. Yeah. Right now you don't, but down the line, there's going to be somebody who depends on you is my guess. Do you want a family one day? Yeah. Someday I'd like a family. Yeah. I think it's worth it for you to lock in now at a great rate. I mean, you're young, you're healthy, you know, lock into a 15 year or 20 year deal

term and you'll pay like 12 bucks, you know, it's 12 bucks a month. It's so cheap. It's maybe not that, but it's super duper cheap and you can get 10 to 12 times, you know, your income and you can name a beneficiary on there for now. And then as that changes, as you develop and have a family, you can change that. But I'm definitely doing that. But I'm, you know, I'm going to make sure I have the term life in place first. And then I'm going to cancel out this whole life policy, get my 50,000. Let's talk more about this, this home situation. What are you trying to buy? Yeah. So right now I'm renting, but I'm just looking to kind of move into a condo instead of the apartment I'm in. So at the moment, my price range is about $250,000

because that's kind of what I think I can afford. That's awesome. And I love that you're telling people that there's things you can buy for $250,000. How many bedrooms is it? It's going to be a one bedroom. It won't be overly glamorous, but that's all I'm in right now. Yeah. Okay, cool. Is there any debt? Tell us more about your financial picture. Do you have debt? Do you have other money saved? So I have no debt, no debt at all. And currently I'm making about $70,000. And I've got with this $50,000, it would be almost $100,000 saved up. Nice. And now that $100,000 that you have saved, over here we like people to have three to six months of basic expenses before they start saving an additional down payment. So would you say that is that $100,000 or is that other money that you have, does that also make up your three to six months of expenses?

Yeah, I should have clarified. That is on top of my emergency fund. Wonderful. Wonderful, wonderful. Okay. So great. What do you have as your emergency fund? I have about 15K right now as my emergency fund. Okay. So what does that get you? Three, four months? It's like three to four. Yeah. Okay. Right in the middle there. Excellent. So you got a hundred thousand to put down on this property. So you're putting almost half down, which is really sweet. Yeah, that was my goal. That's the only way I can get the monthly payment within that 25% of your take-home range. So that was my goal to try to get to that $100,000. Dude, you're rocking it. I have no complaints.

I have nothing to say other than why did you take out whole life to begin with? Well, so that's actually where I think Dr. John might be able to help because this policy was taken out from me when I was born. It was something a financial advisor told my parents to do, and they've been paying into it ever since then. But now that it's coming on to me to start paying it, it just doesn't make sense to me because of the rate of return is so poor. Yeah, I'm glad you see that but the problem is like my parents kind of treat it as this like sacred cow and i don't know how to get rid of it without making them upset just go make fajitas man like here's the deal like you you just choose guilt over resentment brother and this is this is going to be step one of a number

of issues over the course of your adult life where you and your parents diverge it might be who you vote for it might be on whether one of your kids should play sports there's just going to be these these debates whether they should bring their dog over to your house for the holidays and you don't want their dog whatever you got to do what you know a to be, and especially what's right for you. It's not dishonoring. It's not disrespectful. It's your policy. They handed it to you. And what a cool thing.

There's $50,000. Here you go. I wish they'd invested it and they were able to give you $100,000, but here's where we are. And so the next right thing is I'm going to buy a house, and I'm going to take this money and apply it to my home. Thank you all so much. And if they want to fight you on it, you tell them, I'm not going to fight you. Guys, I'm not going to a house and I'm going to take this money and apply it to my home. Thank y'all so much. And if they want to fight you on it, you tell them, I'm not going to fight you guys. I'm not gonna fight you. I love you. And I respect you. And I'm doing the next best, right thing for me. And there's, and here's the deal. Choose guilt over resentment. If you don't,

you keep paying into this thing that you know, isn't a good use of your money that keeps you from moving into this house just to make them happy, over time, every time they call you, you're going to get annoyed. Every time you get a text, you're going to go, ugh. Every time your mom calls, and they don't deserve that. It's not fair to them. That's because you didn't put up a boundary. Can I add one in?

Yeah, go for it. If you think that they're going to act a fool over this, give it back. That's fair. Yeah, they've given it to me, so I don't think they're going to act a fool over it. You do. You think they're going to. There's going to be some pushback, I'd say. If you think it's enough that it has the ability to mess up Thanksgiving, give it back. Okay. Sounds good. That makes sense. Fair enough.

And rent. There you go. Ooh, I love that call. Thanks for the call. That's, I love, listen, he's doing everything right. And it's really hard when mom and dad, when you know, it's just hard when you know something and your mom and dad are older than you, they think they know something. And I'm like, his path is working out for him really, really well.

And they invested into something that had a really poor rate of return like he's right so but he's about to get a house but you said something that's real important that I want to double click on sometimes people give gifts as a way to try to control you and especially when parents aren't it when that transition I'm not looking forward to it when you shift from I can tell you what to do yeah to i'm gonna walk alongside you right and i'm gonna try i might try to influence you but you're a grown-up and i raised you the best i could and you get to make your own choices sometimes we'll say let me help you with that down payment of your first house or let me buy that first car yeah and it's going to come with some strings to it because that's

that's the next way i can control you i can just be overly generous right and there comes a moment when is that fifty thousand dollars would that be nice yes absolutely is it worth losing my relationship with my parents nope but the moment the moment if he i don't think he will get to this but the moment he would get to saying you know what what, mom and dad, thanks for the gift, but I'm going to give that's got to cause them. If it doesn't cause them to look inward and go, what is happening? Why? I mean, that holds up a mirror. It's like, you know, like remember Beauty and the Beast. He had the mirror and he could see what was going on.

Like it holds up the mirror that you have to go. What am I doing that would cause my child to give me back $50,000? You entitled Brett. And if I want to respond like a child, then me back $50,000? You entitled Brett. And if I want to respond like a child, then your, then your kid was right. Yeah. Oh man.

Yeah. Good on it. Good on him. Yeah. I think he's fine. I think, I think he'll work it out. I don't think he has to give it back,

but all right, let's see. Let's go into Justine who is in Sacramento. Oh, I don't think I can make it. I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to do that to her. We'll take her.

We'll take her the next time. I'm gonna ask this question. All right. Teresa says, I've been gaz I can make it. I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to do that to her. We'll take her. We'll take her the next time. I'm going to ask this question. All right. Teresa says, I've been gazelle intense for so long. How do I spend money again? My husband and I are on baby step seven and we're struggling psychologically

to spend small amounts of money for myself, even when it's in the budget. But I want more of what I want than I need, such as home decor, clothes. So they've been gazelle intense for a long time. She doesn't know how to get herself. It's going to sound cheesy. And for people who are struggling with baby step one, this sounds nuts, right?

Because there's all, but it's a true thing and it happens. We get this call a lot. Yeah. The first thing is you're going to practice. You're going to put money in the budget that you promised yourself you're going to spend. Even if it's a little thing. The second thing, and this is what I had to do. This is just me being vulnerable here i matched it i'm gonna give this money away the same amount that i'm gonna spend on myself and it'll let me exhale right let me exhale i'm gonna

i'm gonna buy this guitar but i'm gonna figure out a way to give this much money away okay now we can and it was just this weird psychological game i played with myself but it was my way of practicing we're not running for our lives anymore it's okay it's okay i like that i like that it's kind of like the opposite some people say you really know you can afford something if you can buy it twice have you heard people say that no it it doesn't shake like let's be honest it doesn't hold up but that kind of reminds me of that like you're matching it with something to prove that hey hey, this is fine. I gave a little, I spent a little.

And then, you know, they're saving a little too. There's three things you do with money, give, save, and spend. And as long as you're doing those three things in the proper ratios, you're in the clear. This is The Ramsey Show. All right, all right. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. Thanks for being here. I'm Jade Warshaw.

Next to me is Dr. John Deloney. If you want to get involved in the conversation, you can do that. Give us a call. The number is 888-825-5225, and we'll get you in the mix. Hey, if you're selling a house or if you're buying a house, let me tell you a little something. We want you to do that the Ramsey way. All right? When you do it the Ramsey way, it makes home ownership a blessing instead of a burden.

And so we've got this Ramsey Trusted Program, which is really the only way that you're going to be able to find an agent that you can trust to keep you on track with what we teach here at Ramsey so that you can get the best offer on your house or find the best home for you. So what we do is we send you some of the top agents that are in your area. These are agents that we trust. You get to review their stats. You get to interview them. You get to decide ultimately which one that you're going to work with. And so the Ramsey Trusted Agents, these are folks with years and years of experience. They're going to help you make wise decisions when it comes to pricing, when it comes to marketing, making, and even choosing the best offer if you're selling a home. So we want you to go to Ramsey Solutions, I'm sorry, we want you to go to ramseysolutions.com slash agent in order to find a free Ramsey trusted real estate agent for you. Again, that's ramsaysolutions.com slash agent. We'll get the job done. All right, let's go to

the phone lines. We've got Justine. She's in Sacramento, California. What's going on, Justine? Hi, thanks for taking my call I have a question about retirement I am full-time working and putting into a state retirement system my husband retired at 50 and is getting his pension about 80,000 but now is employed in a second career we just found out in April when we filed our taxes that we make too much money to contribute to Roth IRAs. Yeah. So my question is, is do we go to a traditional IRA or do we just go to a brokerage account since he's already receiving his retirement? You could do a backdoor Roth IRA if you wanted to.

You could work with one of our smart Mr. Pros to make that happen. It kind of sounds shifty because you say backdoor, but it's not. It's just basically the idea of you putting the money into a traditional and immediately rolling it over into a Roth IRA. So it'd be nice to work with somebody in order to do that. But I always say work with a smart fester pro because at this stage for you, you might be looking into other bridge accounts that you want to be able to access ahead of time in case, you know what I'm saying? Your husband has the pension, but if you want money there, that's aside from retirement, if you decide to retire early. So I would work with a pro for that reason alone. Do you know what I'm saying when I say it like that? Does that make sense for you? Yes. Yes. Absolutely. I just didn't know since he was already getting his pension and mine's going to be a guaranteed pension. I hope it's a teacher's pension when the time comes. And so how we continue, cause we're, he's 59, 49, so 52 and 49.

So we still got a long ways ahead of us. So we still need, you know, to make sure we're comfortable and everything as we move to our second half of our life. Absolutely. Do you already have, do you have any money set aside in IRAs or old 401ks or anything like that? Yes, we've been doing Roth IRAs for years alongside, but this is the first year, I think, between his pension and his new job, the salaries just outpaced what we needed. And so this would be the first year that we cannot contribute to the Roth IRAs.

Great problem to have. Hey, well done. It is. I'm happy for you guys. Yeah. So yeah, you can do, like I said, you can do that back, backdoor Roth IRA, but get with someone just to make sure that that's the next step in your, you know, wealth building journey. Because like I said, you guys

are further along. I'm not sure how much you have. It might be good to do that. It might be good to split it, you know, and do some other things as well. So I would do that. Thanks for the call. I love it. You know, if you're doing really well, you know, and you find that you can retire early, it's nice to have a bridge account that you can get into that you're not going to have any penalty for if you haven't reached 59 and a half yet. Yeah. And I always want to caution people this, this kind of obsession with let's just retire. Let's just retire. Let's just retire. Uh-huh. Go towards something. Oh yeah. Don't, don't cross the finish line just to say I quit. Go towards, I'm going to begin to do these next things.

I'm going to learn these hobbies. I'm going to travel. I'm going to visit people. Like, have a thing that you're going to do that's going to give you purpose and meaning and a reason to wake up every day because doing nothing, man, that's not all it's cracked up to be.

Psychologically, emotionally, physically, everything falls off a cliff if you're not working towards something yeah it's like social i don't know like what is it called when you're atrophy yeah it's like it's like atrophy what's like you're not using your brain you're not using your body you're not you're not doing the things you always used to do like that can't be healthy for you yeah and there was a there's a movement for a while like let's all retire at 28 or 30 whatever and some of the feedback was i hung out with my friends on the weekends and i want to do that all the time and then i retired oh dude all my

friends work all the time because they still have jobs and so it's not what you think it's going to feel it's not going to feel like you think it's going to feel yeah and so just be prepared for that but i always want to encourage people to go towards something yeah even if it's volunteering serving whatever it is go towards the thing don't just get to this finish line like i don't have to do it anymore because your body will go go cool we quit yeah i'm like you have half your life yet left if you if you retire at 60 or 59 you have literally half of your life to go like i don't know i choose to live to 100 so i don't know about the rest of you guys but i've got some miles on my body i will not make it that long but you don't want to live to 100 john not a there's zero percent chance that don't say that all right let's

go to the phone lines we've got jose who's in los angeles california what's going on jose hi thank you all so much for taking my call um i've been trying to get on the call for a week now, so I'm glad you guys answered. I have a question. So I got a potential opportunity for employment, but it is across the country. I'm asking to relocate. They're asking me to relocate over to Louisville, Kentucky from Los Angeles. And it is a significant pay bump so my question is if it's worth doing the jump to go and relocate for the money and you know potentially giving up a company that has really good culture and you know has been such a pivotal organization for me in my development as a leader. Is it the same type of work?

Yes, it's similar. So it's still managing a team of parking attendants. However, this is going to be more in the hospitality industry rather than the commercial industry. Is the culture you're moving into a terrible culture? I am not sure of the culture. I try to make as many connections with people and I get a lot of mixed reviews. Some people say that they hate it, that the leadership doesn't support them as much. And other people say that, you know,

leadership is great and that, you know, just make sure that you have good relationships with your clients and that you'll be fine. Other people feel meh about it? Are you a leader? Are you moving into a leadership role? I'm currently a leader here at my current company, and it would be kind of like a lateral move, just more pay, basically. How much more pay? So I'm currently making $30,000 an hour, which roughly comes out to $62,000 per year.

They're offering $85,000 a year with a $5,000 incentive for relocation. Not to mention probably a decrease in state income tax, probably a decrease in cost of living. Oh, yeah. The cost of living is a huge one, yeah. Have you been to Kentucky before? No. So I've only been to, yeah. Have you been to Kentucky before? No. So I've only been to Tennessee. I've never been to Kentucky, so I'm not sure what to expect.

But I did do a little bit of time in military contracting, so I did move around a bit, which is, you know, relocating isn't an issue for me. It's just my concern is nope. Dude, I'd hop on a plane and fly out here, shake people's hands. It's a $500 Southwest flight. That'd definitely be worth it. And yes, I moved across the country. Jay had moved across the country for a better opportunity for our families.

And we had to leave some stuff and we gained some stuff. But we, I know I did, and I'm sure you did too. I dug deep on the culture. I dug deep. I knew I was coming from South Florida to Nashville. I'd been to Nashville. I'd lived in Nashville before, so I knew what I was getting into.

And so I think for you, I mean, I can tell you off the bat, culturally, it's going to be totally different if you go from California to Kentucky. But if you're up for it, great. You know, it might be worth the money to you. But I agree with John. Get out here, see what it's like. See if you like the folks. See if you like up for it, great. You know, it might be worth the money to you. But I agree with John. Get out here.

See what it's like. See if you like the folks. See if you like the culture there. And spend more than a day. You know, like try to spend a couple of days and really get into it. If I was in your world, you know what I would do? I would come out here and rent a car and go use the service of the team you would technically be leading. Ooh, I like that. I thought about that, but I have to make a decision today whether I'm taking it or putting it at my two weeks' notice.

Oh, shoot. Well, good luck to you. Welcome to Kentucky, my man. Welcome to Kentucky. Yeah. At this point, try it. Listen, you can always go back. Yes, and you're going to have to get in line of all the people leaving Los Angeles to move to Nashville or Louisville.

So you're going to have to. There's some traffic this way. But we'll see you soon. Hey, come out to Louisville and then come visit us in Nashville. It's just a hop, skip, and away. All right, Josue. We'll see you on the flip side. Can't wait to see what you decide.

This is The Ramsey Network, it's The Ramsey Show, where we talk about your life, your money. We help you build wealth, do work that you love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm your host, Jade Warshaw. Your other host for the hour is Dr. John Deloney. We're going to get into it. Going to get involved with questions about your life and your money. So you can call us. The number is 888-825-5225.

And we'll give you our best advice. All right, we've got some folks on the line. We've got Bridget from Indianapolis, Indiana. What's going on, Bridget? Hi, how are you guys? Great. Okay, so my question is, I inherited some gold from my grandpa.

It's worth about $13,000. And I wasn't sure if I should cash in the gold and invest the money into retirement or just keep the gold and let that grow. If you're keeping it for a future investment, I would sell it today. If you're keeping it because your grandpa, it was like a cool sentimental thing. It's like a really nice, awesome thing that is going to be generational and you don't want to sell it, then I would hang on to it. Okay. Got it. And then where do you- Let's do this. Take gold away and pretend he left you a, I don't know. Watch.

Yeah. 1971 Les Paul Deluxe, where he'd put P90s in it. Not that I'm saying know. Watch. Yeah, a 1971 Les Paul Deluxe, where he'd put P90s in it. Not that I'm saying that's what I want, but I kind of want that. Could that go up in value? Yeah, it could. But it's a cool guitar, and it's Grandpa's guitar. So I might keep that. But if I don't play guitar and I don't really care, I might sell it. It's kind of like that.

Okay. So if you're looking for a purely investment standpoint, selling it and investing it is definitely better. Correct. Okay. All right. Thank you so much.

You're welcome. Love the call. Thanks for the call. Yeah, I agree, John. That's very, very good. All right. Let's take another one. We got Jessica.

She's in Columbus, Ohio. What's going on, Jessica? Hey there, guys. How's it going? Great. How can we help today? All right. So just a quick little layout of where I'm at. I am divorced and I am after the divorce moved in with my parents due to health issues and then the divorce and everything. So I am currently on disability, excuse me, and I have a lump sum of money in my account and I'm trying to decide

I am in baby step three, I believe. Um, cause I have no debt or anything like that. I have my emergency fund for six months and then I have this other money and I would like to do something to be growing it. I do have it all in a high yield savings account, but I would like to not be in step three forever, but also being on a fixed income with disability. Um, I live, you know, penny to penny. So I'm trying to figure out like, what's the best thing to do with this extra money? Um, cause I don't have retirement. Uh, I don't have like, I can't do a Roth IRA because it's not earned. So just trying to figure out how I can like set myself up for the future with being on such a tight monthly budget, but while having this money that's just sitting there. Let me ask two quick questions and then

Jade, you hop in the money. Jessica, how fresh is this divorce? About a little more than two years. Okay. So this is 24 months. What's the nature of your disability? Like I'm not able to work at all right now, but it's kind of like, it's like an 18 month thing. Like we'll revisit. So it's not for sure if I'll be on the disability income, like long-term or temporary. What's the nature of the disability? Do I have to open that can of worms? No, no, no, that's fine.

I'd rather not. It does play into an ability to, like, if you think you're never going to be able to work again and you're going to be living with your parents indefinitely for the rest of your life, that's going to be one trajectory. If you're in the middle of... So I will say like, it's kind of like, it'll take a miracle from God, but I hold hope for that. Okay. But I don't see a reason not living with my parents at this point because I would just be alone anyways. We kind of enjoy being together. But that also being said, like their finances are not the most super stable.

So it makes me like extra, like I need to have mine as good as possible. Okay. Okay. I want to ask another question. I don't want to drill too deeply, but it sounds like you and John understand something that maybe I don't understand. The nature of your disability, is it like a physicality or is it more of a... Yeah, no, yeah, it's something you can do. Um, maybe it's something where you're working from the phone lines. Maybe it's something where you're doing

a lot different of a type of work than what you were doing before. So I just want you to keep your mind open for that. Um, yeah, yeah. And I have like, I have tried things, but there's like, um, yeah, there's issues that have made it not. And that's why I actually got my, my disability ruled because there was like they even felt confident there really wasn't anything I could um stay consistent at this time and actually be like dependable for yeah okay that is enough for me to actually like make significant funds off of okay um how um okay let's talk about the baby steps so baby step three you mentioned that you already had six months of emergency funds. Yes. Yes. Okay. So technically you're on your baby step four.

So it's about, that would be investing 15% of your income. So what are you receiving for disability every month? What do you get? Um, it's like 1165. 1,165? Yes. A month? I'm sorry. What? 1,000. Yeah. 1,165 a month. Yes.

Okay. I got to push back again. I got to push back again. With the disability, you're telling me there's nothing that you would do that you could do even on the side to make more than 1,100 bucks a month? I'm just pushing. No, not at this time. Okay. No, not at this time. No, not at this time. But maybe later on down the road.

I mean, I'm hopeful for it, but I'm not there right now. How did they calculate such a low return? It's based off of how many years I worked paying in the social security to my understanding. Yeah, that's right. Okay. So you're on baby step four. What's the lump sum that you have that you're looking to invest um i have like 12 000 that i could like i have i mean i have more than that in my account but if i subtract all the things i can have my

bucket for my high yield savings that's right so like the bucket that has just like here's a chunk of money is 12 000 so what i would say is keep the six months of expenses in the high yield savings account and anything above and beyond that, if that's $12,000. For now, you could look into just investing it into a brokerage account and investing it into, you know, great mutual funds. We always say you split them over four types. And if you wanted to work with a smart investor pro to get you started on that, you 100% could. And again, it's four different types, growth, growth and income, aggressive growth and international. And you kind of split it equally amongst those. If you're like, Jade,

that's too crazy. Even if you just threw it in an index fund for now until you're ready to explore that kind of next step, I'm fine with that. And I don't know what your expenses are working from home. If there's anything left above that, yeah, I'm investing it because you don't really have, you know, your baby steps feel a little bit different because your income is so low. Anything you have above, you know, living and whatever obligations you have with your parents, yeah, invested into that brokerage account. and that's really going to be what you're doing for now if things change give us a call back and we'll we'll kind of recalibrate with you and see what that means moving forward but listen i hope that i hope that in 18 months when you guys

revisit this i hope that it's a it's a better story for you and it's it allows you kind of to get out there and and get moving that's tough john that John. That's really tough. This is The Ramsey Show. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. You know what, John? I have to be honest. I've kind of become a little bit of a nerd when it comes to budgeting. Like, it's like a weird game that I like playing. And I love every month redoing my every dollar budget. There's like the button that you push and it takes last month's budget and puts it to this month's budget. And then you go in there and you make the tweaks.

And every once in a while, my husband gets to it before I do. And I'm like, dang it. Because I just like, I don't know. I like doing that. I thought I was a nerd. And I'm pleased to announce you've you far surpassed me congratulations that's awesome it's like you know like okay like if you're a person who makes lists and then you love the feeling of being able to check put the check next to the list

you're like jade i know nothing about this are you the kind of person who does a thing that was on the list and you write it on the list so you can mark it through 100 i want credit it didn't happen if i didn't write it down. You should call my friends at BetterHelp. Oh my goodness. But if you're like that, even if you're not like that, everybody needs a budget, John. I say all the time, budgets are like toothbrushes. Everyone needs one. Without it, things get ratchet. Let's be honest about that. So the best way to budget is the every dollar budget. It's the best way to make the most of your money. You create it,

you stick to it, and that's the plan, right? Every dollar, it's simple. It makes it so simple to plan your spending. You can track your expenses in there, which is the daily habit, right? It's like brushing your teeth. The daily habit with every dollar is every day you go in there and you track your transactions. It's like a little game. It makes you feel like I did something. I won today. And you get to save for what matters most to you. It's all in one easy to use app. It fits right into your lifestyle. And honestly, it fits right into your pocket because the app is on your phone. Or of course, you could use the desktop model if that's what you like. But you can keep a pulse on your spending. You can make progress on your money goals. And you can do all of that with every dollar. Let me say, especially if you're married,

if you're married, you need every dollar because that is, it bridges the gap in communication. It's a nice way to say that. I like to say, I can't hide. No, no, you can't hide. All the things I buy automatically show up on my wife's phone. So here we are.

There you go. And then we need that. It's transparency at its finest. So download every dollar for free. You can do that in the app store or on Google Play today. I love it. I love it when it rhymes at the end. All right, let's go to Trent who's in San Diego, California. Hi, thank you for taking my call. I really appreciate it. You bet. How can we help today? So just a little background here. We've had about $138,000 in debt we've paid.

Hey, Trent, do me a favor. Talk directly into your phone, brother. All right, can you hear me? Perfect, yes. All right. So we've paid about $52,000 of debt off basically since February. Looking to try and speed that up a little bit.

So the question today is, we have a car that we're upside down on. It's about $14,000 upside down. We owe about $37,000 on it. We have two other loans, a student loan for about $20,000 and a loan that we took out to put down for a down payment on a house, about $25,000. We have three kids under three, so the car situation has been kind of hard for us. We have one car that's paid off and one that doesn't really suit our needs. It was more something I wanted. And so now we're trying to figure out, do we sell that car?

Do we keep it? You know, kind of how do we proceed? Because we do want to ultimately, we have three boys that are under three, and we want to have a cry again, you know, for potentially a girl. So we're needing like a van or something with a second row of seats. Got you. Okay. Yeah.

Maybe a Suburban or something like that. Well, we'll get what you can afford. Okay. So here's the thing. I just want to get, I want to clarify myself. So you said you do have one car that's paid off. What type of vehicle is that? That's a 4Runner.

A 4Runner. Toyota 4Runner. Okay. And then, then you've got this other vehicle that's that you're upside down on 14,000. What kind of vehicle is that? It's a Tesla model three. Ooh,

I see. Trent gets what Trent wants, doesn't he? Well, you know, it's, I've, I've had a lot of cars.

That's kind of a problem. Um, and so now I'm letting my wife be the, uh, the a lot of cars. That's kind of a problem. And so now I'm letting my wife be the voice of reason here. And she's fine with me having it. But, you know, it's just at this time, it doesn't fit three car seats very well. That's the least of its issues. That's the least of its issues. The biggest issue is how it's causing you to be deeply in debt. So, again, for clarification for me, you said

you had $138,000, but then you said the debt you've paid off. So what is your current debt? Current debt is $84,000. Okay. I have about $30,000 in the bank right now that we're, I just, you know, obviously that we owe that $14,000. Do we pay that off and then, you know, buy a different vehicle for me to drive or do we pay off the smallest debt first and kind of go from there? No, I think in this case, I would clear that vehicle out because that's going to, when I think about the debt snowball, the first thing that I'm thinking about is where can I find money to save to throw at this debt snowball? And so in this case, we are looking at the cars first to say, is there money saved here?

Of course there is because there's a car payment involved. And since you have cash, this is ideal for you because you could really take the $14,000 and get right side up on this loan and just clear that car out. You net zero on that. And then you've got $ 16,000 left in savings. And so let's think about what a reasonable amount of that would be to go towards a car that works for your family. And you can decide what that is. I mean, you've got this 4Runner over here.

I don't know how old it is, how many seats it has. But for right now, I want you purchasing something for your family as it is, not necessarily for what you think your family will be in the future. Either way, if you get something with a third row of seats, you're going to be fine. But there's nothing that says you have to go out and buy a 2020 vehicle. Yeah, my wife's car is a 2024, and it fits the car seats, and it has a third row, but you can't put a and it has a third row but you can't put a car seat in that third row so that's kind of where we're like she would upgrade i would take her car um or not upgrade

but change her vehicle but i i go away for work from multiple days at a time so it does make it a little bit more challenging knowing that i want to make sure she has when you say she would upgrade what does that mean because we're talking about selling this tesla and downgrading to something in cash i was thinking she would maybe change vehicles down the line and i would take her vehicle um if we saved up enough to pay cash for a vehicle that you know was bigger that could fit more that could tow because got it but that's assuming you have a fourth kid down the road she She's not pregnant, is she? Not yet, no. But it's definitely something that within the next year we are looking to do once we have all this. How much do you make a year, Trent?

$230,000. Okay. This is going to sound crazy, but you're broke. Okay. You have an're broke. Okay. You have an incredible salary. Yes. And you owe $84,000. And you shuffle around depreciating assets.

And so you make a quarter of a million dollars and you have dreams of an $80,000 Suburban for your four kids. And dude, I love that dream. It's cool. But I don't think you're grasping the reality that your family right now isn't safe because you owe $84,000. And so until you've at least zeroed out and then you can begin to make some forward progress with your quarter of a million dollar salary. See what I'm saying? Like in your head, you make this money and this money keeps coming in and keeps coming in.

But you wouldn't be calling us if it wasn't also flying out the back door somewhere. No, I agree. And that's why I'm here. I definitely, like I said, I see the need to sell the vehicle. And I'd bicycle to work if it made sense. But it's just one of those things that right now we have that cash, and that's where I'm looking to decide what makes sense to buy. Do I still find something that I can fit car seats that I can drive around my kids in, or do I buy something that's— How often do you drive them around? Actually quite a lot. I mean, I'll get into my wife's vehicle and drive them, but

it's, you know, I'll take them hiking my days off because I'm fortunate that my schedule allows that, you know, when I'm at work, I'm at work and when I'm home, I get multiple days home in a row with them. That's cool. So what you do next is going to determine how quickly you want to get out of debt and how quickly you want to get right side up on this situation. You might decide, hey, I'm going to buy a beater, like a complete $8,000 beater. I'm going to drive that. I'm going to put my wife in the 4Runner because it's a little bit better. And that gets you closer to paying off this student loan you have. Then you turn around, you pay off that personal loan you had. And then in the end, you're debt free. And trust me, you'll be able to upgrade

car quickly with a $230,000 income and no debt. Hey, you're listening to The Ramsey Show. If you want to give us a call, an unfiltered call about your life and your money. We will take it. The number is 888-825-5225. By the way, my name is Jade. Next to me is Dr. John Deloney, and we're your hosts today. So we are the ones who will give our advice. If you wanted George Campbell's advice or Rachel Cruz's advice, you should have called on a different day because sometimes they host or Ken Coleman or Dave Ramsey. So there you have it. All right, let's go to the phone lines. We've got Andy in Portland, Oregon. What's going on, Andy? Hey, guys. Oh, I'm so excited you guys took my phone call today. So I am doing the baby steps with my wife. We just started like a month ago, and I've been super gung-ho about it, and my wife's annoyed with me already. I have, I'm just going to roll through

the debts. So we have $10,600 on a car loan. We've got $7,700 on a credit card and we have $4,600 in student loan debt that we have left to pay off. I have in a savings account $12,000 in cash. Okay. I want to take the $12,000 and pay off the car because that will free up a bunch of cash for us to just hammer out the rest of the little debt. Yeah. And my wife does not want me to spend that money. She's scared, right? Yeah. What plan number is this? Meaning?

What's that? I'm trying to think of the right way to say this. What plan? Are you a guy that's always got like an idea? Oh, yeah, absolutely. And so she's been with you on a bunch of different of your ideas? Yes. And so this is just, so for you,

maybe the light bulb has finally come on and you see a path to freedom and you're gung-ho and she sees this as just another one of you know one of andy's one of andy's things and she is unwilling to give up the most stable thing in her life which is 12 grand in a in a checking account yeah yeah i don't blame her. And so how do you create sturdiness and stability in this relationship with her? That's a great question.

Andy's like, I wasn't ready for that. I thought you were going to tell me how to pay these debts off. Here's what I'm going to tell you. I'm going to pass it over to Jade, but here's what I would tell you. Exactly as I just rolled it out to you, she needs to hear you say that.

And this is the word that every man I know hates to say out loud, but this is the only path towards healing this type of disconnection, and that's you being vulnerable. And that looks like you taking her out for dinner or taking her out for breakfast, This is the only path towards healing this type of disconnection, and that's you being vulnerable. And that looks like you taking her out for dinner or taking her out for breakfast, or in your guy's case, because you're all broke, going out for a walk, and you stopping at a park bench and sitting down and looking across the bench and saying, I've taken you on a bunch of wild goose chases, trying to hack my way to safety and security. And I'm sorry,

because I've given you an unstable partner in this adventure called life. I really want to do my part to help us be safe and be free. And I'm not ever going to wild goose chase you again. And, um, but here's the path forward and here's the book and here's the way we're going to navigate this. And I'd love for you to join me here. I'm scared about how I've led this family and I'm scared about what comes next. If we keep owing all this money, will you join me? And then at that point, maybe she might say, Hey, what did you do with Andy? My husband? And she may say, I still don't feel comfortable with it,

but at least she sees you recognizing what she now has been experiencing. Can you do that? Yeah, absolutely. Okay. And then when the time is right, after you've done what Dr. John just said, then you let her listen to this call. And she hears us say, yeah, you take the $12,000 and you take $10,000 and you pay off the car and you keep the $1,000 aside and you throw the other $1,000 at the student loan and you knock it of it and you pay off the car and you keep, you know, the 1000 aside and you throw

the other 1000 at the student loan and you knock it out using your income and you roll through this really quickly and you're going to have more peace than you've ever had before. Because not only are you going to have this debt gone, but you freed up all these monthly payments and now you can save more money than you've ever had saved. Six months of expenses and it just sits in a high yield savings account, just sitting there making you feel all warm and cozy on the inside. Right. And then you move on to baby step four where you're investing 15% of your

income. And so that's how this works. You really came for John's answer, not mine. I think you knew the answer to mine. but here's the big question. Will you do this? Oh,

absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. You know your wife better than Jade and I do. What is she going to say if you sit down and say that to her? Honestly, she'll probably cry. Yeah. Our life's crazy.

Yeah. our lives crazy yeah I want you to start thinking in terms of stability or a better way to say this is let's start solving for peace let's don't solve for the get rich let's don't solve for the scam let's don't solve for the oh yeah then we can let's solve for peace you want to be counter cultural and

bananas in today's world I'm let's solve for peace. You want to be counter-cultural and bananas in today's world? I'm going to solve for peace in my house. And there's going to be some tension because once you put, once you get that, uh, that, that car paid off and your checking account, your savings account has $1,000 in it, you're going to sleep a little bit shallower and Jade and I are both going to tell you good because you should be nervous and scared. That's going to encourage you to go get some more money, not buy stupid stuff, cut your grocery bill to the

bare bones, and you're going to look up in six months and you're all going to owe nobody anything. You're going to start to exhale for the first time. You didn't even know how shallow your breathing was. Is that fair? Yeah.

I want that for your home, brother. That's totally fair. Thank you very much. All right, hang on the line. Here's what we're going to do. I'm going to give you a peace offering that you can slide across the table all cool-like, okay? I'm going to give you a copy of Building a Non-Anxious Life, and I want you all to use that as a roadmap in your house. Oh, man, that'd be awesome. Thank you. Well, hold on. I'm going to give you a copy of building a non-anxious life. I don't want y'all to use that as a roadmap in your house.

Okay. Oh man, that'd be awesome. Thank you. Well, hold on. I'm not done. I'm also going to give you,

um, uh, every dollar, the best budgeting app on planet earth. I'm gonna give you a year subscription. I'm gonna give you, I'm going to upgrade it for you. Jade's going to pay for it.

I'm not going to, but Jade will. And it's going to be a way to connect to your bank so that you can look her in the eye and say, I'm not going to make a bunch of crazy purchases anymore. When I buy something, it's going to be because we budgeted for it and we planned it, and both of us are going to get notified when this happens. And look at her and say, I'm all in. I'm asking you, will you be all in?

Okay? Okay. Cool? That's awesome. Here's what those things are going to cost you you got to call us back when you're debt free in about six months fair deal absolutely done all right cool stay on the line brother oh what a call thank you for that call you know john i think that i think that what he's facing is what a lot of couples face which is that feeling of you've you finally found something that you think is going to be the breakthrough moment and it with with this plan it

is a watershed moment right but you have this wake of all the other things you've done and tried and got bought in for uh buy-in from from your spouse that didn't go so well and so they're seeing a trail of like failed mishaps. And you're like, no, this is the one. This is the one. Like, I think a lot of people needed to hear, like, how do I navigate that conversation? Because this is the sure thing, right?

It's like, I don't know. That's just such a- This plan works 100% of the time. It works 100% of the time. And Avon or Tupperware or essential oil like whatever all the other like hey here's what we're gonna do i'm gonna do this quick star yeah um and so they just don't have that kind of track record so um but you have to do you have to undo the damage of all that before you can slide this over and say hey here's the real one and this type of

healing will take time because i'm confident that his wife is going to say, the moment we pay this car off, I'm going to walk through and you're going to be sitting on your laptop looking at cars. I know that's what's going to happen because you talked me into a truck one time. You talked me into the new Tesla another time. And so I think it's a matter of saying,

okay, here's how I'm going to change. I'm going to change the way I'm living inside this marriage. Will you join me? And yeah, that's a control alt delete. It's a big one. But then now the onus is on him to really show a different person going forward. And I have different habits. We're accountable for our habits.

So I'm excited for them. I can't wait for them to call in and see how it goes with them. This is The Ramsey Show. You're listening to The Ramsey Show, our scripture and quote of the day. Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain. That's 1 Corinthians 15, 58. Then we got Sandra Day O'Connor who said this.

Do the best you can in every task. No matter how unimportant it may seem at the time, no one learns more about a problem than the person at the bottom. Wow. Love it. Good stuff. All right, let's go to the phone lines. We've got Ronnie in Shreveport, Louisiana. Louisiana. Yeah. Thank you for taking my call. I have about four different collections that are rather huge, large, and I have a problem that my children don't really care too much about them. So I didn't know how the best way maybe if I wanted to get rid of them. I don't need the money, but I have a coin collection. I have a depression glass collection. I have an extensive record collection, vinyl.

Okay. And I have a collectible card game collection. Okay. What's a depression glass, man? Yeah, I want to know that, too. I think James Charles drinks from a cup like that a lot. What is that? It's the colored glass from the 20s and 30s.

They were made, the first mass-produced type glass. Is it like that green color? Green, pink, cobalt blue, amber, you know, all kinds. There's Elyon glass, which is the same as depression glass, made during the Depression era, basically made during the 20s and the 30s. What's your card collection? Are you into baseball cards? No, it's not baseball cards.

You've heard of the game Magic the gathering oh ronnie it's not just a game you collect wait a minute i don't i don't think i realized that you could collect lots of it's like pokemon sort of except it's the very first uh game to come out like that and uh i have an extensive collection of all the early stuff which is worth a lot. When you say worth a lot, what do you mean? I have one card that's worth $100,000. Whoa! So you need to like consign this.

Like you need to go on, do you watch that show on Netflix, Golden Auctions? Uh, I never really looked at that. Listen, I would get online today. Why don't your kids watch it? I don't know what Magic the Gathering is. It sounds intense. But why don't your kids watch all of that?

It came out in 1993. It's a collectible card game. I have not only just the cards. You collect the cards and you play a game with them. And so I have all the early first printing of stuff, and I have the first about six couple of expansions. It's just still out now. They're still producing cards.

Very popular around the world. So why haven't you sold them? Well, I haven't sold them because I don't really need the money to sell them, so I just want to know maybe how do you get rid of something like that? At first I thought, well, I can just go sell them at a car shop, but now a car shop can't even buy what I have because I've got unopened boxes that'll work $10,000. Have you gotten them rated, like, professionally? No, they're not graded, but I know how to grade them and everything because I've been doing this for a while.

I'd start walking down that path if you know you've got all this. The car to have that's worth a lot is part of a whole set. Yeah. And the set is worth $300,000. That's what I'm saying. With a $300,000 car. But you keep telling us how much it's worth. Who's telling you how much it's worth?

That's just me going online looking at what they're selling it for. I probably couldn't get that much for it. But who's selling it? Different car shops around the country like Turtle and Toad and Alpha Beta Unlimited. But that means they're buying it, right? They're buying it and they're selling it, yes. So I would start there. Okay.

Or look into these auctions. Look into all sorts of things that you could do. I have a lot of unopened boxes. Yeah, we understand that. We understand that. What we're saying is take the next step to selling them, which is you vetting out different companies, whether they're just people selling them, you know,

and they're just offering you top dollar or you put it on an auction block and see what you can get for it. Like, really look into this because there's a lot of money to be made there. I'll be honest. I don't know a whole money to be made there. I don't know. I'll be honest. I don't know a whole lot about the Depression Glass. I don't know. Your record collection could be worth a lot.

It could be garbage. We really don't know. But until you get it out there... It's probably worth... I got about 8,000 albums. Right, but until you get it... It's worth 80,000. Until you get it out there

and somebody says, I will give you this for it, we really don't know. So that's the next step. And let me tell you this for it we really don't know so that's the next step and let me let me tell you this ronnie this is hard to hear okay i've sat with a few um older folks with things in their home that they in their head had numbers attached to and that was they were they were literally drowning in stuff and i um and i was trying to help them go through their things one person was able to just say the peace is not worth this this and i'm calling it imaginary

because you don't have a check in your hand right so until you're holding money it's not real money but they finally were saying i want peace in my home and i left one other elderly person's house it was heartbreaking there i mean literally unable to move because of how much the potential this stuff was worth and i knew it wasn't worth what they were saying was in their mind but i just couldn't have that they wouldn't hear it and so i think you have to ask yourself if you don't need the money and you like having these collections, I can hear your voice as you're describing this stuff to me and Jade. You like having things that in your mind are worth thousands and thousands of dollars.

Then just keep them. Your kids will figure out what to do with them when you're gone. If you want to sell them, and that's good. Actually, the magic cards is what they're probably interested in the most. Great, cool. But, you know, now my, I mean, I have a financial advisor that's saying we might be able to sell some of this stuff just to get the money and invest it and stuff like that. But I don't think you want to sell it.

I think he wants to increase his portfolio percentage take. Do you want to sell it? I don't want to sell it right now, no. Okay, then don't sell it. Yes. Then don't sell it. Because I can tell right now you don't want to sell it right now, no. Okay, then don't sell it. Yes. Then don't sell it. Because I can tell right now you don't want to sell it, and the reason I know that is you have this imaginary,

I mean, this incredible thing. Well, I'm realistic to know that whatever, like a $100,000 card, I could probably get 50 for it. Okay. But I'm saying you've got the internet. If you want to sell this, you can sell it. Yeah, you're going to get like half of anything that you have as a collection now. Okay.

The glass, I know dealers that might can buy the glass. But here's what I'm saying. You don't want to sell them, and so that's fine. You don't need the money. You don't want to sell them. That's cool. And again, I know you don't want to sell them because you haven't sold them yet. That's true.

So when you want to sell them, you've got the internet. You can pick up the internet, and you can figure out who to sell the stuff to if you need the money or if you just want to start offloading these things because you want to give your kids cash instead of these things but these things still bring you joy keep these things yeah i mean i felt like we were just chasing our tail on that call because he could just kept going back to the fact that he has it i'm like i'm glad that you have it and listen if you have steely dance pretzel logic i'll buy that off you because that's hard to find you know what i'm saying so anyway yeah i'm with john jay you're officially on friendship probation for being a steely dan fan what jay james chiles you

too what hold on i'm still bitter tell me there's something wrong with donald fagan i don't i'm just still bitter about the uh heavy metal win over metallica that one time it's just because he's not a real musician jay don't worry about it oh my god i know right i'm not gonna bitter about the heavy metal win over Metallica that one time. It's just because he's not a real musician, Jade. Don't worry about it. Oh, my God. I know, right? I'm not going to worry about it. I'm going to let this roll off. I'm going to act like you never said that, John.

Ronnie's in the records, Jade. Now I'll split them up. We'll take care of the records for you. Yeah, that's right. We'll take care of that. Oh, my goodness. That's a good call. Thank you for the call, Ronnie.

It is hard to part with things that you've, I don't know, like there's a reason that people collect things. And a lot of times it doesn't start with financial gain. It starts with a feeling it gives them or like it's nostalgic. It makes them think of a time. I don't know. So it's hard to part with that. I think it's important. Here's two important call outs. Number one, if somebody's leaning on you to start selling it, whether it's your financial advisor or your kids they want to they want a piece of the action right um if you have realized or if you're broke and you people around you're like hey you got to sell some of this stuff to pay your bills then there's going to come that moment yeah but also there's going to come a moment when you collect whatever as you collect in your 65 or 75 and you realize oh i can't take this with me

right and so then you got to ask yourself what am i going to do with this am i going to be whatever it is you collect in your 65, your 75, and you realize, oh, I can't take this with me. Right? And so then you got to ask yourself, what am I going to do with this? Am I going to be charitable with it? Am I going to sell it and give the cash to my kids or give the cash to a local organization or whatever? But at some point, man, this is going to sound awful. At some point, you're no longer here.

That's right. None of us get out of this thing alive and none of us can take our magic cards with us, right? Or in James his quasi folk music with him or whatever Steely Dan does. Well, I'm going to act like you're not saying the

things that you're saying right now about Steely Dan. Actually, I don't know enough about Steely Dan. I want the nations to take to the comments right now and settle this for us once and for all. One of the greatest bands, duos of all time, Walter Becker. America, this is the first time I've said this on the show, but that's not great advice you just heard. America will decide.

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