The Ramsey Show - Cut Debt out of Your Life, One Credit Card at a Time

Episode Date: October 17, 2024

📱Watch the full episode for free in the Ramsey Network app. Jade Warshaw & Ken Coleman answer your questions and discuss: "How do I find margin when I'm capped out on income?" "Should I use a HELOC to refinance my home?" "My wife doesn't want to give up her horse..." "How do I get rid of my credit card debt?" "Should I move out of my parents' house?" Support Our Sponsors: 🌱 Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp 🏥 Learn more about Christian Healthcare Ministries 🏡 Get started today with Churchill Mortgage 🏦 Go to FAIRWINDS Credit Union for an exclusive account bundle! 🥗 Save 15% on your first Field of Greens order with code RAMSEY 💤 Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! 💻 Visit NetSuite today to learn more 🗂️ Use promo code RAMSEY for18% off at The Nokbox 🏛Get started with YRefy or call 844-2-RAMSEY 🔐 Visit Zander Insurance for your free instant quote today! Next Steps 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET or click here! 💵 Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app! 🏆 We're Hiring! Join the Crusade! Apply Now! ☂️ Protect yourself with the right coverage—take our coverage quiz! 🛒 Shop the online store at Ramsey Solutions 🛳️ Live Like No One Else Cruise Listen to more from Ramsey Network 🎙️ The Ramsey Show   🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 💰 George Kamel 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 EntreLeadership Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Welcome to the Ramsey Show where we help you win in your life. We help you win with your money. We help you win in your work. And we help you win in your relationships. All three of those are so connected and we want you to have peace so that you can live the life that you desire to live. I'm Ken Coleman, the incomparable, the fabulous Jade Warshaw is joining me. She makes me look so much better.

I'm always happy when you're here because you make me sound better. You're helping them win with the fashion. Look at this jacket. You like the jacket? All right, all right. We're off to a good start folks. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. 888-825-5225. Jade's gonna help you out lead on the money questions and I'm gonna help out and lead on the income questions. We want you making mo money. Mo money. So we can get rid of those money problems. Heidi's going to start us off in Columbus, Ohio. Heidi, how can we help today?

Hi, thanks for taking my call. So it's kind of a two-part question. We have two special needs kiddos. They're little, but you know, going forward, we're going to be dealing with this at least the rest of our lives with helping them with their finance, with their health needs. But we're strapped right now. I've taken about a 20 hour work week job because I wasn't working and we have no margin. So I'm struggling with,

is there a way that I could maximize my 20 ish hours of work time? Because when I work more things just fall through the cracks. That's what we've been finding because my husband can't hold it down. My husband has been at a job for nine and a half years and he's not getting a big raise. So we're just you know looking at it from okay how do we we're living at we have cut everything but this is gonna be our lives like with the kiddo. So how do you guys have any tips or help or any ideas how we can maximize because I don thought we aren't even able to really save for retirement at this point so overwhelming yeah so if what I'm hearing you guys have cut to the

absolute bone so this is 100% about we need more income is that what we're hearing yes okay what does your husband do? What space is he in? Yep. He's an analyst and he works in food distribution. So he does a lot of problem solving, analyzing things. What does he make? He honestly, he makes $62K a year and no real bonuses. Okay.

$62K a year and he's an analyst. Is that on the technical side or is it on the logistics side? Logistics side. Okay. Um, well, so there's two things, very simple. Okay. And, and it's going to sound simple when I just say it, but now we've got to actually go do what I'm going to tell you. And so if he were sitting with me to right now, I'd say, okay, you've got experience and you've got skill as an analyst. You're in logistics right now, but you could probably move over into the technical side of things. And technology right now would be one space that I would have him look at because he can get trained and qualified pretty quickly. And again, he has transferable skills and experience

with a path upward is where technology is going. And he's kind of in process, not kind of, he's in the process type of work. And I just think he has to upskill. And that's gonna take a little bit of time and unfortunately some money and Jade can weigh in there. She knows how to, I'm telling you, she can find money. And I and Jade can weigh in there she knows how to I'm telling you she can find money and I want her to weigh in on that but I would be looking for him he needs

to be adding 20 to 40 thousand dollars to that income would be his goal and that would make a sizable change in your life yes or no? Oh that'd that'd be huge. Okay, so he's, because of the kiddos, because you're the CEO of the house, and you've already said this lovingly, when you're out, it drops through the cracks, and that's what it would be like in Stacey and I's relationship too. If Stacey was out there doing stuff,

and I was left to try to figure it out, Jade, it'd be a full-alarm fire. Oh, it'd be a hot mess, yeah. You know this to be true. So I get that. So I think we wanna focus on him right now. And so he needs to be thinking about, where can I pivot so that I'm on a ladder

and I'm making six figures? That is not an aggressive goal. I think it's a very realistic goal. And so I'm gonna do a couple of things here because I wanna get Jade in here on the money thing because here's what I want to bring you in on. And I'm going to give her something really quick. But mentally here, there's potentially a minimal cost for him to do some upskilling. And so I want you to weigh in on that because she's already feeling like, but real quick

before I hand it to Jade, Heidi, we're going to give you, when we put you on hold in a second, I want to give you your husband the Find the Work You're Wired to Do book and it comes with the Get Clear Assessment because it's going to help him not be so intimidated as it comes to ideating what are his options right now. And then not only will we give you that, Christian will also set him up if he'd like to call my show where I can actually coach your hubs directly because I believe that we can actually help him map out and I've helped a lot of people increase their income.

So I wanna do that because I can't do that with him right now, is that okay? Can we do that? Oh, that's great, yes, thank you. All right, all right, so I wanna bring Jade in here. Jade, what do you see in here? What are your thoughts? Ken, I think you're exactly right.

We talk all the time about getting your income up and it's usually divided between two ideas. It's either side hustle, which is kind of a short-term way to accomplish some goals. But if your core income isn't right, the next way is your core income and that's really the problem here. But to your point, it's true.

When you set out to get your core income up, you have to know, like this is a journey over time and you're going to have to make the investment of time and money. You're probably gonna have to get your skillsets up. That might cost some money. For some people, yeah, it's upskilling, it's getting a certificate,

it might be continued education. For some people, the job market I'm in is not great. And so let's move to a place where there's a better job market. So just understanding that it's not a light switch that you flip that immediately, you're upping your income by $40,000. This is a journey.

And Ken, kudos to you for offering that coaching. That's very valuable. And I think that that's gonna- We can get him there. Now, one other thing I wanna mention, Heidi, with Jade here, because you're a full-time mama and a full-time pro. Working on it.

You've got two youngsters. Yeah. She's had some unique challenges. That's right. What I want you to address is, okay, she needs to keep working those 20 hours and it's really hard. What are some options to get some help, Heidi? Is there a grandma in your church or a lady who she's raised kids and she could step in

that gap to where your husband's not feeling all that weight? Because we still need those 20 hours of income right now, Jade. And I think it's important the same way we're looking at how to maximize his income. There probably are ways that you can maximize your 20 hours. What are you doing right now and what are you getting paid? Yeah, I'm a front end helper at a local boutique studio. So I get paid 15 an hour. I do get a little commission, but it's still irregular.

I can't even, sometimes it's $30, you know, a month. But it was the most flexible was working more than nighttime shifts. You know what I mean? So like that was why we took it. nighttime shift look like for you really quick? We only got about a minute What's that nighttime shift look like? I've been working three to eight or two to eight because he is at home in the afternoon And then I'm a PM to a pillar. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you know, here's what I'm gonna recommend 8 p.m.? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Here's what I'm gonna recommend. I'm gonna recommend a Target, a Walmart, a big box store. Make $18, $20 an hour. To where we could get a couple more bucks an hour because everything matters right now. It does, that's a big difference. And the more experience you get, who knows, you might be able to pop into another type of job

that you're doing remotely, that they have the ability to pay you more because it's remote work. So look into that, virtual assistants make a lot of money. Hang're doing remotely, that they have the ability to pay you more because it's remote work. So look into that, virtual assistants make a lot of money. Hang on the line, Heidi. We're gonna get that resource for your husband and I'd love to schedule a call with him. We can change his name, location, all that,

to protect the privacy there, but he can be making more money and should be and that's gonna change your life. Thanks for trusting us, thanks for the call. Hang in there, mama. It's gonna get better. You guys are doing a great job. This is The Ramsey Show. You've been working the Ramsey Plan and you've made real progress, but if something happened to you tomorrow, would your loved ones be able to access all

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That's N-O-Kbox dot com slash Ramsey. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman and Jade Warshaw is with me. The phone number for you is 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. We'd love to get your question. You know, we talk about this all the time, Jade. The best way to make the most of your money

is to create a what? A budget! Oh, she's the budget queen. She's the budget queen, and our signature, and we believe the best budgeting tool out there is Every Dollar. It's gonna make it really simple for you to do that very thing, to budget, to plan your spending,

see where the money's going through tracking the expenses, and this is gonna allow you to have the margin you need to save for what you need to save for, obviously to get you through the baby steps, and that's how you're winning with money. You can download every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play, or you can click in the link in the description

here in the show notes if you are taking in the show via YouTube or podcasts, So there you go. And if you are setting up your budget for the first time, George and I can did a video that shows you exactly how to set up your every dollar budget for the first time. It literally takes five minutes. So if you're looking at the Ramsey show on YouTube, just search it in there and you'll find it,

setting up your every dollar budget. All right, let's get back to the phones. Toronto is where Jason is joining us. Jason, how can we help? Hey guys, thanks for taking my call. Actually, I have some questions in regards. I wanted to consolidate a lot of my debt into my mortgage because I'm finding I'm doing a lot of Peter Pace Paul

and I'm not really being anywhere paying off my debt. My bank has actually suggested a home equity line of credit, which I believe is known as a HELOC. Now, George, I believe you're not a fan of HELOC and I don't know enough about them. Well, George is not with us, but you are correct that he is also not a fan of it. None of us are a fan.

Nor are we. Here's the thing. Let's stop right there because you told me you're doing a lot of robbing Peter to pay Paul, right? And this is essential, this would be you continuing that pattern if you do this, because you'd be robbing the equity in your mortgage to pay and I pay in air quotes

because you're not really paying it off, you're just moving the debt truly to a more risky place. You're moving it from kind of having a free standing location out there in the abyss to now being connected to your home, which means if for some reason you fall on even harder times and you have a hard time paying that debt, now your home is at risk. Whereas before you could have chosen, Hey, no matter what I'm paying my mortgage, I'm keeping these four walls. So it's not what I'm doing right now. So for that reason, it's not a good idea. Tell us more about your debt and let us offer a situation that's going to give you less stress. Sure. I mean, I'm currently got 18 years left on my mortgage,

which is about 134,000. And then I have a truck loan that's out there at 56. I've got five years left on that. 56,000? And then I have 56,000. Okay. And then I have a couple of line of credit, personal line of credit and a couple of consumer cards. Tell me the personal line of credits. Yeah, so I have a personal line of credit

that's at 16,000 at 9%. Okay. Most of my percentages are all at 10 and 9%. Yikes, okay. For interest rates. Okay. Not over that. My truck loan is at 3.9.

So basically, totaling all my personal debt is $78,000 right now. So you got $78,000 and it's between trucks, personal loans, and what was the last thing? Just trucks and personal, it's all trucks and line of credit. Okay. I have three different line of credit. And can you tell me the amounts on the other line of credits? What was the last thing? Just trucks and it's all trucks and line credits. I have three different line of credit. And can you tell me the amounts on the other line of credits?

You've got the sixteen thousand. Tell me the others. Yeah, sure. I got sixteen thousand. I have one that's at twenty six ninety and I have one that's at eighty four dollars. Eighty four dollars. OK, well, we're paying that one.

I'm working hard. I'm paying those. That's right. OK, gotcha. OK, so I get what I see your line of thought. Your line is like, let me simplify this. I'm going to. I'm paying those steps, right? Okay, gotcha. Okay, so I get what I see your line of thought. Your line is like, let me simplify this. I'm going to throw it all into one payment. Let's consolidate this. But honestly, I figured I was saving myself roughly $750 a month. Yeah, you're you're filtering it through. You're filtering it through interest rates. And you're filtering it through, like I said, kind of like a simplicity mindset of like, I'll put it all in one spot. But psychologically, you're putting yourself in a tougher spot. Because what's going to happen

here is you're going to throw it onto the mortgage. And not only are you putting your home at risk, but now it's kind of like out of sight, out of mind. It's not bothering me. And you've pulled it out of your equity. So there's a many, many ways I could coach you here. I'm not going to go into the initial purpose of buying a house, but just really quick, remember the reason that you bought a house is because you wanted stability and it was a way for you to build wealth.

If you roll this into your home, you're eliminating both of those things. You're eliminating the stability that you had in your mortgage and you're eliminating the wealth and the equity that you'd built up in your mortgage. So just throwing that out there. Let's talk about a way that we can do this that psychologically will allow you to accomplish it faster. So tell us about your income. So income is roughly about 45,000 a year. My monthly expenses is $42,058. About $4,258, sorry.

Okay. So basically I- What do you do for a living? I do bookkeeping. Bookkeeping. Bookkeeping and tax person. Is it your own business or you work for someone? I do have my own corporation and my corporation pays me more than dividend.

Got you. So anything that my corporation has, I pay myself in whatever the profit- Are you maxed out right now as far as clients and time? Well, no, not. I am still expanding because I'm still relatively new. COVID actually was a good thing for me, being that I was able to start this own business because I had two part-time jobs.

Now I've gone to one full-time, which is this one. I am expanding yearly. In the last three years, my wage has gone from 50 to, like my business wise, has gone from 50 to 70 to 85 last year. But that's not what you're paying yourself. But that's not what I'm paying myself. That's correct. Can you pay yourself more? Or there's nothing there?

At this present time, no. That's why I'm still expanding my client. Okay. So, and Ken's going to talk to you more about this, but the glaring problem here is your income. That's why this is strangling you. And so there might be, Ken's going to advise you on that, but it might be something that you pick up something else until you can get this income up.

But for you, even a side hustle at this point is just a bandaid because until that income gets up to a point where it's not very, very difficult to handle this, it's going to be a problem. Because at the end of the day, what we're doing is we're listing these out smallest to largest. But if there's no margin to make any payment beyond minimum payments, then we're treading water, right? So, Ken, give them some juice.

Well, with somebody with your experience, you need to be doing way more. I'm a numbers guy. Yeah, but you need to be doing way more work. You need to be offering your services. You need to max out. This working for yourself needs to feel like over time. Yeah, cause is that 45 gross

or is that what you're netting, your pay? That's what I'm netting. Okay. 45 is what I'm netting. Okay. 45 is what I'm netting. Okay, okay. Still. Still, this, I mean. So basically I have, basically I'm paying myself

about 5,000 a month and I've got about $4,200 in expenses. Yeah. But are you paying your, okay. So are you paying yourself everything that comes in the door out of this business? Yes. Yeah, that's what I thought. So we gotta max out.

So essentially, basically what it is, is I got 15% going to the government, 25% going to my corporation to cover some of my house bills because I can run some of my business. No, we get it. Yeah, we know, we get it. We get it, what I'm saying is- The rest of it is mine.

I get it, but we're on the same page. But you've gotta make more money. And there needs to be some intensity, not just on walking the baby steps out, as Jade has told you, there needs to be some intensity for you right now to dig yourself out of this. And with your bookkeeping experience, all the number crunching,

you need to be offering your services left, right, north, south, all over the place. And I might even consider a part-time job, if it's not just a contracted new client. Don't limit yourself to your traditional business model right now. You need to be working because you, my friend, have over leveraged yourself

and you gotta stop this stuff right now and you gotta have money to knock it out or else this is gonna take way longer than it needs to. Yeah, do you file, I mean, tax time is gonna be coming up. Do you file taxes? Do you do returns and that sort of thing? Yes. Yes. And that's my prime time. Okay. That's your prime time. Yeah, I do both. Like I have my regular monthly clients, but then I'm doing hours of overtime to get all my income. When is that? What time

of year? Our season is Family Day, which is mid February to the end of April. All right. So you already know that's your hot zone, but I'm talking, you've got to create a hot zone right now. Right now, this is all about income. This is all about income. You've got to get your income up. And then Jade, what does he do with all that extra income? Don't fool yourself by consolidating this. We found that people who consolidate their debt

feel like they've done something. And especially when you roll it into your house, you feel like the debt's actually gone. And then you end up going deeper into debt again. So cautionary tale, I'm telling you because I know we take these calls day after day, I'm not making this up. Don't consolidate your debt, pay it off, smallest to largest.

Thanks for the call, Jason, appreciate it. Get after it, my friend, that's your theme right now. This is the Ramsey Show. My wife Sharon is a major health fanatic. So I was excited to tell her that we're partnering with Field of Greens, a fruit and vegetable super drink. Each fruit and vegetable in Field of Greens was doctor selected to support your heart, liver, kidneys, and metabolism for healthy weight.

And we love that Field of Greens comes with a better health money back promise get 15% off at field of greens comm slash Ramsey with a promo code Ramsey that's field of greens comm slash Ramsey welcome back to the Ramsey show America thrilled that you're here we want to help you win with your money win in your work and win in your work, and win in your relationships. The phone number's 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. I'm Ken Coleman, Jay Warshaw is alongside. Yay, yay. And in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions

on the debt-free stage, we've got Jeff and Carrie. Hello, guys. Hello. What's up? Where are you guys from? Salt Lake City, Utah. Salt Lake City, Utah, all right. So give us a story, you're here for a debt-free screen.

How much debt do we pay off? We paid off $353,000. Ooh, whee. Wow, and how long? That took us just a little over nine years. Uh-oh, I sniffed something out right here. I know ask away Does that include the house? That's amazing that is amazing I put you in a really rarefied class Dave likes to call those people weird people

It's his line. I can't take it. Do you guys feel weird or you feel great? Our kids to tell us we're super weird. Nice. Well, by the way, all kids think their parents are weird. So that's a good sign that you're doing something right. Nine years, that is a journey. I mean, you're sniffing a decade right there. Yeah, yeah.

It felt like it would never end at times. So take us back to nine years ago. What was the impetus for this journey? Okay, so what happened was we got out of school and we had purchased this house and between the two we just felt like we were kind of drowning in debt at that point. When we went through school we took out a $54,000 loan by the end of it, and we took as much money as they would give us so that we could raise our family,

because we didn't want our family not being able to eat, not being able to have the things they need, and so we didn't know about Dave Ramsey at the time, and so we just took everything we could and got mounted up quite a bit of debt. All right, so let me jump in here. What do you guys do for a living? And I'd love to know the range of income here

now that we got the start of this journey. So we're both software engineers. Okay, wow. And then when we started. Yeah, when we started we were only, when we moved into the home I was making 85,000 and Carrie wasn't working, she was home with the kids. Sure.

And then now we're all the way up to 325,000. Whoa. Whoa, mama. Sheesh. Gotta love that. I mean, those are great, great jobs. Yeah. With a lot of opportunity.

Wow. That is really interesting. So, okay, so much like everybody else in the culture, yeah, they say, if you want it, we've got it, we'll give you a loan for it. And you guys kind of fell into that trap like so many. What was the moment that you were like, enough of this? I'm tired of playing this game, I wanna opt out.

Tell us about that moment and what caused it, what spurred it. Yeah, I just remember sitting at home and thinking we have this huge student loan and we somehow need to pay this off before our kids start going to school. So we kind of set that goal of how can we pay these loans off before our kids start going to school,

because they're gonna need debt too to finance their lives. And that's kind of the mindset we had, is we just need to start paying off the debt so we can eventually finish at some point. So stop the cycle. How'd you discover this plan? So really I was just talking about this problem with my sister and she's like,

hey have you ever heard of this guy named Dave Ramsey? I was like no, never heard of him. And so she said yeah, you wrote this book called The Totally Money Makeover, you should go read it. And so I read it and immediately was like, yes this is a plan and just I think our kind of analytical brains started kicking in and that's kind of how we think about it, is step by step and so it totally made sense for us.

It took Kerry a little bit longer to get along. He had to get me on board. I didn't think we had a problem because we hear like, credit cards are bad, credit cards are bad, but you never hear like, student loans are bad. So I was like, we don't have credit card debt, we never did that.

We just have this one student loan. But. Yeah, and you're right, because that's a very interesting point, Jade, because a student loan is tied culturally to a very good thing. It's an investment into your education, yes. That is interesting.

Yeah, that's real. So you both do the same type of work, but like when you were computing, do we do this planet kinda, it didn't hit you the same, Carrie? Yeah, it didn't hit me the same. Well, I was running the numbers of how long it would take us and he would make spreadsheets and charts

and that's a long journey we're signing up for. Yeah, you're busy as it is. Yeah. And adding all the sacrifice in there. All right so once you got on board, how intense was it? I mean how intense? Because we got the student loans and then eventually we decided to take care of the house. Yeah like once he got me on board it was like and we had the momentum from finishing the student loan. it was like, why stop there? You know, and I kept hearing, you know, Dave say like, get a bigger shovel.

And so I went back to work full time. So that really helped. Yeah, to me it was seeming like, how are we gonna get to the end of this? And we were only about maybe a year and a half, two years out at that point, but we were walking down the street one day and she looked at me and she said, you know,

what if I went back to work full time? And that thought had never crossed my mind. Are you serious? As a dude, are you shooting me straight? That did not cross your mind? Hey, when we've got five kids, two girls going to dance, dance is not cheap. Oh no, I get it.

And you're shuttling them around everywhere. Shuttling them around, like they were constantly being shuttled, but hey, we realized that hey, it's worth it and it's gonna change our lives forever and we need to do this. At what point in the journey did you go back to work in the nine years? So it was a year ago.

Oh wow, okay. How much did that juice the income, by how much? So it was, so I make 135. That's sweet. That's big, yeah. That's a big deal. I'm giving you mad love on this, Jeff, because as a guy, maybe this is me,

but like, I know she was busy. Carrie, I know. But I'd still be going, man, she's got a great degree. I mean, that income's real, Jay. That's real, that's real. Because the way I look at that is, is like, we teach we here, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm going, we could get $135,000 race.

I'm impressed with him. Yeah, that ain't a little bit. Because I promise you, if she'd have said that to me on the walk, I'd have fallen over. So, and this might be a loaded question, but I relate to the journey. And so a lot of these were really hard years.

Like you guys were cutting back a lot. And of course it got juicy in the last year. During the, what I'm gonna call, beans and rice, rice and beans years, what was the hardest part? I mean, what were the sacrifices? Because you had to have been cutting it thin with five kids and one income.

Yeah, I think some of the biggest ones are probably the cars. So, you know, at work they've got the parking spots that you can reserve, but it turns out you can only reserve them if you have certain years models of cars. What? And so mine was the 2005 CRV and they said,

sorry, your car doesn't qualify. This is car discrimination. That's like when you go to the valet, like you go to a nice restaurant and you valet the car, but they only put the nice ones like in the front where you can see them. Like put that one in the back over there. Put that one where the staff parks.

That's a trip, I've never heard that before. Oh my gosh. All right, so real quick, gotta ask you, if you two were both going to tell people the key from your own perspective to actually winning in this journey, what's the key for you guys? I think it's, you know, don't give up.

It's like, it's a long journey, you know, and we live in like instant gratification. I want it now, I want it now, but just keep going. Like once, once we decided to do it, like we're doing it. Like you can't keep changing your mind. Like, is this really worth it? You're not, you know, you have to be committed because it's a long journey.

Love it. All right, so we got the kiddos with us. Let's get them up on the stage and get them ready for the scream. Tell us who we got. So we have Bradley who's 16, Emma 15, Alyssa 13, Christopher 11, and Dylan who is nine. All right, is everybody practiced?

Are they ready, we think? They're ready. Okay, all right, let's get to this. We got Jeff and Carrie along with Bradley, Emma, Alyssa, Christopher and Dylan, all from Salt Lake City. They paid off Jade $353,000 over nine years and that includes folks, their house.

Jeff and Carrie and fam take it away let's hear your debt-free scream. We're debt free! Wow! I mean that's a chorus. That was impressive. They were all all in sync. They were. I think the kids are excited about it. Yeah. I mean because we got some teens and pre-teens. And usually those age groups, they're not excited about it. No, no, no. They could care less.

But this is a big deal. What a great family. The whole house paid off almost a decade. That is what this is all about. Thank you all so much for sharing that with us. All right. Quick break. We're going to go out and high five this awesome family.

We'll be back with more of The Ramsey Show. I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable. Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible. People that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. When you have to think through how am I gonna pay my bills? How am I gonna eat next week?

Yeah, in the middle of all that grief, like it's just, it is, it's terrible. So life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And it doesn't cost much because Xander

shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say I'm gonna say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. It costs those stinking pizza. To get a free quote call 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282 or go to zander.com. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman and Jade Warshaw is with me and we are here for you. 888-825-5225. Rick is up in Syracuse, New York. Rick, how can we help? Hey, how you doing today? I'm kind of in that struggle of being in college and not sure and

not being sure what I should do next. I'm a professional athlete as well as playing professional or as well as playing collegian sports. I play collegian and professional lacrosse and I know that's not the moneymaker, but I'm just not sure if I should continue studying or if I should find another venture outside of school. Yeah, how long have you been in college? This is my second year after this year I'll get my associate's degree. It'll be in business administration with a heavy course load in accounting and communications. Okay. Well, no matter what we come up with here in the next few minutes, my advice is

since you're almost there to the two-year associates, I'd go ahead and play this part out for sure because there's some value to that. So the question is, when anybody asks me this is, should I go to college or should I drop out? The answer is, is college the only way, in other words, the degree, the four-year degree at this point, is it the only way to do what you want to do or is it the best way to do what you want to do? That's my two-part question. It's never going to change. I'm never going to change on that because to me it's all about practicality.

It's time and money you're spending right now and so the question is, and I think I know the answer, do you have a clear idea or do you have a couple of ideas that are floating around in your head about what you would do outside of being a lacrosse player? Yeah, I have a couple ideas but nothing really concrete, I guess. Alright, give me the couple ideas and we'll go idea one, then idea two. If I were to get my associates and then I would go to a four-year next year, most likely on scholarship. That's the one thing, because of being an athlete and having good grades, I have little

to no debt and I will have little to no debt even if I pursue more school. Okay, that's a good option. So, and then, so it would be by, I think, halfway through the, if I were to take a trimester on my junior year, at the end of that trimester, I would be able to sit for the CPA exam to become an accountant. Okay, so idea one, you thought about that for a while, okay, and what's idea number two? Idea number two is some sort of business venture into the sports world, whether it's coaching younger kids or connecting students to college coaches or professional coaches or something

along that nature. Okay. And is there any other idea that floats around or pops up from time to time that we might call idea three? It's okay if there is a? Yeah. Okay. I can't think of one. All right. Let's stay with those two. Okay. I don't know about my good friend, Jade, but Jade, I see two very, very, very of the spectrum on idea one and idea two.

Idea one is accounting, which is very process-driven work. Idea two, which was kind of a nebulous description, but it would be in the sports world, some type of bridge, but it's very people-driven. So I see process work, and I see people work on the ends of the spectrum. Do you see that part? I see it.

That's very interesting. So, Rick, my question is, is which one of those would you choose if you could only choose one today? And on the end of that choice was absolute success and terrific meaning. Which one would you choose if I said you could only have one of those? Sports for sure.

Yeah, I knew that. Being the sports one somehow. I could hear it, number one, in his voice. But what I think has got you kind of stuck in why you called today is because that sports direction, that's all you gave us was kind of a direction. It's not the clearest path. And therein lies, Rick, why you're feeling stuck.

Because the other one is super clear and definable. I go and I sit for my CPA exam, and that allows me some pretty clear options going forward. The other one, the way you described it, you just haven't figured out what a destination could be and I think you've got to come up with a couple of real tangible destinations. In other words, and I'm not gonna hang these on you Rick, and I don't want to, but one idea would be do I become an agent? Another one is do I become an agent? Another one is, do I become a coach?

Another one is, do I step into some type of advisory role? You know, another one could be. Athletic director. Athletic, and then the other one could be, because of NIL, do you combine? And this was an idea that I had, Jade, so I'm gonna throw this to you, Rick. Do I combine that ability to crunch numbers,

because I think that's what's leading you down the CPA path. You're good with numbers, is that true or false? Yeah, pretty good with numbers. Yeah, pretty organized dude, aren't you? Yeah, pretty logical. Yeah, and so I wonder if some type of role in NIL, because you're a college athlete, you have entree into a world that I do not have entree. I would have to kick some doors down. And I wonder about NIL and the money side of NIL and athletes and how these athletic departments, because Jade, as you know, this is the wild, wild west.

Thoughts, Rick? Or questions for Jade and I? Um, yeah. He's processing. Um, yeah. Okay. So here's the processing. I guess I really haven't even explored cause I just been kind of stuck in the that's right. The midst of everything moving so quickly. Right. So Rick, here's my actual advice. Okay. And I want Jay to weigh in. My advice is exactly what you just said.

I was pointing out to you that you have to explore and explore intentionally and intensely right now because I'm not at a place where I can say yay or nay on should you drop out of the next two years of school. We've both told you we think you ought to finish the Associates because you're there, but I am gonna say I'm not sure and I'd say hold on deciding about finishing the four-year program because I first want you to determine what are my options in the sports route. You have already told us that you would prefer to work in the area of sports. Bingo. So now we're clear on that part. Now your homework assignment is to do the

research and actually talk to real people, men and women, who are holding down positions in the multiple different jobs or career paths within college sports or pro sports. Make sense? So here's what this looks like, because I want to simplify this. Make a list. And I started a list.

By the way, you may cross off every one that I gave you, which is okay, but that's the exercise. Would I be interested in being an agent? Go do some homework, talk to somebody. Would I be interested in being an athletic director? What do you think, Jade? I think that's his homework assignment. And then we come up with two or three

that we're actually going. I would be fulfilled, and I think I've got the chops, the talent to do that. And so now I ask the question, do I need to finish the degree? I'm 100% with Ken. I think when you're looking in an area that's a little bit more vague and it's not the career path that everybody's suggesting job after job after job, you kind of have to do your research. I think it is in many ways

like excavating. Like you start in one layer and the more you dig in you find all these new opportunities that people just aren't talking about in day-to-day conversation. It doesn't mean that they're not there. I experienced that in music. It was like, well, if you want to be a musician, everybody was telling me kind of like these top layer superficial jobs

that felt way out of reach. But when you keep digging, you find there's a whole world of opportunity. If you just dig in, you start making connections. And before you just keep, my husband and I had this framework of thought, if there's a door handle, we turn it. And we find out what's behind the door and what the opportunity is, you learn more about it,

you give it a try, and then that leads to another door of opportunity. Real quick, tell your story. That's how you get on cruises and make really good money and pay off half a million dollars. Okay, nobody. You never saw that, did you? No one was talking about that. When I was in school, Rick, it was like, okay, on cruises and make really good money and pay off half a million dollars. You never saw that, did you? No one was talking about that. When I was in school, Rick, it was like, okay, if you're

in music, you're going to be a teacher, you're going to be a band director, and maybe you'll become Britney Spears or Beyonce. And if that's not the case, good luck to you, right? No one talked about that. There's a whole world. You can work on cruise lines and you can work in theaters and you can be a talent agent and you can be a booker. All these things, nobody was talking about that. It wasn't until we dug deeper into Ken's point, you find people who are doing what you want to do and you interview them and you go to work with them

and you do all those things and you see a whole, a whole Pandora's box of opportunity. You and Sam both. Rick, both Jade and Sam have been individually and then together they've been wildly successful in what would be a non-traditional entertainment gig. That's right. And the proof is in the pudding.

So Rick, hang on the line. I'm gonna give you a copy of my number one bestselling book. It's called The Proximity Principle. And it's gonna make all this connecting thing strategically to see what opportunities are out there, really simple to follow. So that's my gift to you. So head up, don't sell your soul to the safe

accounting job. Not yet. I don't see it. Thank you. I agree. Good hour, Jade Warshaw. Thank you, America, for listening. This is The Ramsey Show. Do you ever feel like you're finally making progress towards your goals only to get quickly distracted by something else in your feed? Well that's why we created the Ramsey Network app, your single source for content that keeps you motivated. The Ramsey Network app is designed to keep you laser focused on reaching your goals.

Loaded with over $7,000 of Ramsey shows, this free app is the best place for uninterrupted content and no distractions. Plus, you can search specific questions to get more personalized content in seconds. So, for the days you need some extra motivation, you'll have proven advice at your fingertips. It's time to get serious about your goals and shut out the distractions for good Simply search Ramsey Network in the App Store or Google Play If you're listening on a podcast just click the link in the show notes to download our free Ramsey Network app today Welcome to the Ramsey show where we help you win in your life America, specifically winning in your money, winning in your work, and winning in your relationships.

The phone number for us to coach you up is 888-825-5225. The dynamo next to me is the one, the only. Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman. She'll take lead on the money calls and help you manage the money. And I want to help you make more money. So it's a good combo. Let's get right to it. We're going to go to Denver, Colorado. Peter is there. Peter, how can we help today? Hi guys. Thanks for taking my call. You bet. So I'm calling in because my wife and I are in baby step two and trying to get out of debt and

About a year and a half ago, I got my wife a horse lease started Because she loved being with horses and working with them. She was a time volunteering at a horse center for people with disabilities a horse center for people with disabilities. So she got to basically just shovel poop, be around horses, but didn't get to ride ever. And I saw how much joy that was bringing her, so I got her this horse lease. What's that mean? Can you explain that more to me?

Yeah, I've never heard of that. Yeah, so basically we pay $350 a month and she can go out to this property and ride the horse whenever she wants. Um, her, myself and the kids actually. Um, so it's been a lot of fun, but, um, I'm wondering if we're being irresponsible since we're in baby step two. Um, is it, can I ask more?

I'm just going to dig deeper on the horse lease real quick. So is it there's several horses on the property and she can ride any horse or does she kind of get assigned a horse that's like that's her horse? Tell me more about it. Is it personal? Yeah, so we just have the one horse that we have access to. How long have you been doing this? About a year and a half. And the idea of her giving this up is met with what kind of reaction? Not great. A lot of tears and

she feels like it just helps her a lot emotionally. Yeah. How? And. Wow. How long would you have to give it up? I mean, how long is you guys's journey are we talking? so I don't

So we have like 21,000 in debt. I've got 3000 on the last credit card 5000 Maybe it's over 21. So 5000 on my truck and then I just got a personal loan for 15,000 to cover last year's taxes because that was the first year we'd ever had to pay taxes. Okay. So you're at 23 now.

Yeah. Okay. So is that it or is there more? That's it. Okay. And what's the income? Sorry, Ken. No, go ahead. I make about $120,000.

Oh, okay. So why, this is going to be gone in a year? You're going to live on $100,000 and you're going to knock this out in one year or less? Yeah, shooting for like nine months. Yeah. Good for you. Can she work or does she work outside the home? So she homeschools our three boys and stays at home. That's not what I asked. Can she work?

She does sometimes. Doing what? I'm a trim carpenter and so when we're done with houses, the general contractor that I work for will hire her to go in and do the post-construction cleanup. And what kind of money does she make and how long does it take her to make this money? It's very sporadic because it's just when we finish houses. So it could be like three right in a row or like the next one we'll have is maybe two months away.

How much time does she take when she cleans? One to two, One day usually. One day. And so she's able to do this with the kids? Yeah, usually we just have my father-in-law baby step. Alright, I'm gathering information over here. I mean, I'd simplify it. I'd simplify it like this and some people might hate this answer. Technically, if you're in baby step two, you cut out things like this. Now, you guys aren't, you're not burning like some people are in debt,

and you could be if you choose not to go hard on this, but you're gonna be out of debt so quickly. What I'd say is if you wanna spend $350 and keep this horse lease up with this horse that you've probably established a relationship with, just earn the $350 and keep this horse lease up with this horse that you've probably established your relationship with, just earn the $350 a month. Earn it back. I was, first of all, I am shocked right now,

but I love it. I thought you were gonna go hard on this one. It's an amount of money that is truly not gonna make or break them to that extent. Yes, but I'm with you. I want to make sure the audience hears this. I want to make sure that Peter hears this. I wanna make sure that Peter hears this. I love this idea,

because that's what I was gonna say. Go on it. Mama needs to go make the 350. Yeah. Or there is no horse. Yeah. She's gotta cover the horse. But I do have one question on that.

Peter, let's say it takes you nine months and all this is clear. Is that the number you gave us? That's what we're shooting for you. What's the name of the horse? Jesse. Is Jesse going to be available for lease nine months from now? Uh, it's certainly not guaranteed.

Is Jesse old? Well that doesn't make any difference because if Jesse dies, we can't lease him anyway. I know, but I'm just saying maybe she wants to live out her Jesse's last nine months. I'm going to throw a wrinkle into this, Peter and Jade. I'm gonna throw something out and let you two discuss it. Okay. You ready?

Yeah, I'm ready. I like your idea, but I think the better idea is to go talk to Jesse's owner and tell Jesse's owner what the story is and say nine months from now, we're going to be debt free and this is super important to my wife. I need to know that we can jump back into the contract and lease Jesse nine months from now.

And I would take the 350 and I would help mama get motivated to knock this debt out and say, we're gonna stop riding Jesse for nine months. Okay, but she- I'm just throwing a hardcore alternative out there. Peter, Jay discuss. So Peter, are you saying that if you were to cancel the lease, are you worried about Jessie not being available

and that somebody else would take the lease spot? Is that what you're concerned about? Essentially, yes. Yeah, she could just lease her out to somebody else. Which is why I have the conversation with Jessie's owner. Yeah, well, but if I'm the owner, if I'm Jessie I'm Jesse's owner, I'm like you want me to hold the horse? But how can she not lease him out to like 50 people? How many times can you ride Jesse in one month? I mean that's easy, you gotta be available. So we're um there's usually only one- By the way I should point out to people who just jumped into the call. Jesse is a horse. We're talking about riding a horse.

I should have probably made that clear. I'll refer to him as the horse from now on so as not to confuse everybody. All right. But how many times can you ride the horse in a month? The owner can get- She goes out like once a month. Right?

Twice a week. Okay, twice, oh, that's a lot. Twice a week for $350 and I don't wanna get too deeply into your business but I did want to ask, cause you kind of alluded to it. Does your wife struggle with like some, anything mentally?

Cause you said it helps her mental health. I don't think it's so much like a mental health problem. So much as just like she, she's with the boys constantly. She homeschools. Yeah, totally. And that's kind kinda like her. No need to explain. Yes, our children drive us crazy.

She needs a little time with nature, come on. Okay, listen, I think Ken's idea can't hurt. It can't hurt you to go by and say, hey, we've got a nine month window, we've been working with you guys for a year and a half, we love it, we need to temporarily suspend this, and then we'll be back, give them the give them the date and time if he says yeah Say yeah, but if not, yeah tell mom and be like hey mama

If you want to keep this going you just got to fund it because we decided that our priority is paying off the debt And so we decided that that's the priority with their current income and I want to stand by that And if you want to do something more clean some houses mama got stuff clean some toilets It doesn't have to be toilets. That's the last thing I'm gonna, that's the last job I'm taking. I'm trying to make a point. She really wants to ride the horse.

You gotta pay for it. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey you guys, when you go against what society thinks is quote normal, like avoiding debt for example, it might seem weird at first and that is totally okay. We want you to be weird if that means you're doing things intentionally including how you spend your health care dollars. And one way to be intentional is with Christian health

care ministries. CHM isn't health insurance. They're a health cost sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of health care costs without sacrificing their freedom. Programs start as low as $98 a month. Find out more and join at chministries.org. That's chministries.org. Hey guys, are you ready for the secret to help you reach those money goals that you've been dreaming about? It's simple. You got to get on a budget. With our budgeting app, Every Dollar, you'll get intentional with your money and build the habits that will make those dreams a reality. And we'll be with you every step of the way. From your first budget to that retirement home on the

beach, download Every Dollar for free on the App Store or Google Play. Remember, today, download Every Dollar for free on the App Store or Google Play. Remember, today, download every dollar for free on the App Store or Google Play today. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show, where we help you win with your money, win in your work, and win in your relationships. I'm Ken Colman. Jade Warshaw is with me. 888-825-5225 is the phone number to jump in. Let's get back to the phones. Chris is there in Columbus, Ohio. Chris, how can we help today? Hi there. How you guys doing today?

We're doing great. What's going on? Well, straight to the point. I got into some credit card debt. How much? I'm about $50,000. Yay, yay, yay. What happened? Yeah. That's a lot. What took place?

It is. Well, so, all right, about 2021, I bought a house, um, went into it, having a little bit of credit card debt. Um, when, what I didn't realize is when buying a house, there's stuff that need help, you know, I had, it's, you know, I went in like, you know, maybe $8,000 in credit card debt. And had it sitting on a 0% balance transfer. You know, I wasn't that worried and it was great. I still think the house was a good investment.

We got in sub 3% on the interest rate and value has gone up by like 25%. But the cost of ownership, the cost of owning the house, a lot of times that just fell to the credit cards. Yeah. Was that because, so the question I have, is that because you didn't have any margin in your paycheck when it came to everything else and so any kind of house repairs or all that was just a squeeze on you or was it because you had a new house and you're all excited and you guys wanted to start doing some projects and you didn't have the cash for it so you thought well we'll just put it on the

card was it that some of both what were we talking about little little bit of both I mean so you know I got I got young boys they are when we moved in here they were eight and six and man that's really the perfect time to build a tree house in the backyard. I went to the credit card. We got a half bath downstairs and I'm pretty handy I could do a lot of stuff myself. Well what percentage of your... What do you take home every month? What's your take on pay between your wife? So I'm making about 100 a year,

and that's just because of a new position I've taken this year. Last year, and when I bought the house, I was making about 85. And what's your take on pay? What do you see on your check every month? Let's see, I make 13 and change every week. Every week, 1300? Yes. Okay. And then what percent, how much is your mortgage?

2400 with taxes. Okay. So 5200 and that, right? Yeah. Wow. So that's a little bit, tell me again, I'm sorry, Ken said something, tell me again what your mortgage is every month? $2400.

$2400. Okay, I think that's where some of the problem is, because you're getting really close to that being half of your take home pay. Yeah, it very much is. And so that's where we get into this. I mean, think about it like this. And I don't think people take enough time to think about these ratios.

We say, all right, your mortgage should be no more than 25% of your take home. So there's 25 there. If you're a giving person, you're probably doing around 10% there. And then when it comes time to do your investing, you're doing 15% there. That's 50% right there.

So if you mess around and your mortgage creeps up, 25 more points, you're at 75% of your income and you haven't even done anything yet. So yeah, no wonder you would be going to credit cards, right? Because you haven't even bought groceries, you hadn't taken a vacation, you've done nothing. So I think that what's really really squeezing you is the mortgage That's probably thing one and then if you're not on a really tight budget then this money just disappears

Are you guys doing an every dollar budget? We're very good about budget We're both emotional people and so occasionally do you have some impulse purchases that take us outside of that budget. Um, and you're aware of it. Creeping up. We're getting a lot. Oh yeah. Yeah. Okay. So what it might be for you guys, the no spend months. Okay. So, but that's not sustainable. So what it might be for you guys, it's, it's one of two things. The first thing is if we know that we're on a tight budget and we knowingly say, we can't afford this, but we're going to put on the credit card, you know, we're going to do that.

So you've decided that. And so for that reason, then you need to say, okay, this is a habit we have and it's not working for us. Let's cut up the credit card. That way, when that sneaky feeling of let's build a tree house sneaks up, you can't put it on a credit card because you ain't got a credit card, right? So let's take the cookies off the shelf so you're not tempted by them.

And then you're forced to stick to your budget. And then what will happen is you'll go, man, I'm just, I'm not happy with something with our lifestyle, we want more money. And then your creative brain will kick in, you'll go, okay, what can we do to bring up our income? And you won't be dependent on these credit cards anymore. I think you should cut your card up right now on the year.

Hey, yo. Uh-oh. Oh, we got it. Uh-oh. I double dog dare you. Did you hear the chuckle? That was the respectful chuckle. It's an uncomfortable laugh. This credit card, I'll take it.

Do all of them. All of them, cut them right now. Yeah, I know. Yeah, you know what? I would, honestly, we've stopped using them. I used to be in the habit of, we put everything on the credit card and we pay it off. But just a couple of those times where it has leaked beyond

where we were able to fully pay it off. Chris, you're not ready. He's not ready. Chris, you're not ready. You just said ready. Chris, you're not ready buddy. He just said I would, but. You gotta get, here's the problem. I don't think you've hit, I don't think you're ready. I don't think you've hit that moment of.

What do you think, 10 more grand? Should he charge 10 more grand? Let's get it to 60 grand. What's gonna make you miserable enough? Something's gonna have to make you so uncomfortable with these things that you're like, no more. That's what we, Ken, that is what we find on this show. I agree 100%.

You're not there. You're not there yet. You called us. So what is the reason for calling us? I'm feeling pretty close. What's the reason for calling us? So my question is dealing with the credit card debt. I feel like I've got three, well maybe four.

We just told you. We gotta stop using them first. And then we pay it down. Here, roll this over in your mind, Chris, roll this over in your mind, you cannot solve a problem while simultaneously creating it. So as long as you have these credit cards, you're creating the problem. So you'll never solve it. It's infinite.

It's the cat chasing its tail, dog chasing its tail. So you have to stop the crazy cycle. And the you stop the crazy cycle is you say I'm not gonna keep contributing to this problem. I'm not gonna keep adding to the pile. I'm gonna stop it, turn off the faucet, then you can clean up the mess. Yes? And so what Ken and I were... I think I'm at that point and that's kind of why I'm calling. Then you got to cut those bad boys up. Snap them up.

Yeah. Put them through the little. I'll cut them up right now. Yes. Here we go. Because you guys got an impulse problem. Yeah. And you just said that.

That was your words. You got them right now. We got, we got about a minute and a half. You got them on you. Yeah. You got it. Yeah. Do it. Do it. And you're going to be in the fetal position later today. a minute and a half, you got them on you? Yeah. You want a check, Barb? Let's go to town.

Yeah, do it, do it. That a boy. And you're gonna be in the fetal position later today, you're gonna maybe sob in the shower because you're gonna realize, oh my gosh, this was a security blanket. All right, so you got some scissors? Do we need? Hold on.

Okay, tell everybody what's happening right now. Describe what's happening. We gotta make this exciting. Should I use names? Okay, which one have we got here? Hold it up, tell us what it's called. Ooh, Chase Visa. Ooh, Chase Visa. Hold it near the phone so we can hear it.

Okay, hold on. Chase, this is a Chase Visa. Okay, let's see if you can hear that. Yeah. You catch it? Ha ha ha ha ha! We heard the cut. We heard we heard, we heard the exhale. Are you sure you weren't giving yourself a haircut? That was a sound like barber scissors.

So we got it. We got to go. We got about 45 seconds. What are you, what's next? Options for getting at the critical. I don't want to do something stupid, but I mean with these, they're charging 30%. Cut it, stop talking and cut it. Cut it. I'll cut another one, come on. What is it? Which one are you cutting?

Tell us quick. Hold on. City card. City card, go. Yes, out of here. We won't wait for the sound. Just tell us when it's cut. Oh, yes.

There it is. It's gone. Do do you see that's great how many more you got well you know what we're we're a cash business and we got a lot of people that need to hear these advertisements coming up so we got to take care of business you my friend need to keep cutting advertisements coming up. So we got to take care of business. You, my friend, need to keep cutting. Yeah. Keep cutting, don't stop.

Good job, Chris. Love it. Did you hear that every time he cut one? He went, he went, oh. Yeah, it's painful. It's visceral, you feel it. That is so fantastic. Keep cutting, Chris.

Yes. All right, we'll be right back. This is the Ramsey Show. Keep cutting, Chris! Yes. All right, we'll be right back. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey you guys, I'm not a fan of the big banks and you probably already know which ones I mean,

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take control of your finances. That's fair wins. FAIRWINDS.ORG slash Ramsey. Hey good folks, Dr. John Delaney here. Don't you think life is too short to hate Mondays? Listen, you're worth loving the work you do and where you do it. So guess what? Ramsey Solutions is hiring. If you're ready to join an amazing team that's all about changing lives and spreading hope, we want to see your application. Right now, we're hiring for technology, sales, marketing, writing, copy editing, and creative roles. Check out all our job postings at ramsysolutions.com slash careers. That's ramsysolutions.com slash careers.

The Ramsey Show continues. We're thrilled that you are with us. 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is alongside. It's time for a question of the day brought to you by YRefi. Student loan debt is an epidemic and defaulting on debt makes you feel even worse, but our question of the day sponsor WhyRefi refinances defaulted private student loans and builds a custom loan

based on your ability to pay. You'll have a payment you can afford with a low fixed interest rate you couldn't get anywhere else. So go to yrefi.com today slash Ramsey. It's actually yrefi.com slash Ramsey. That's letter Y-R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey. It may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from us, from Bethany in Arkansas. She says, three years ago, my husband changed jobs to work for a guy who does home renovations.

Their verbal agreement was that my husband would work for a year, then become a partner in the business. The partnership offer never materialized, but my husband is no longer interested in that because their leadership styles are very different. He often complains because he does all the jobs while the owner goes on leisure trips. I have encouraged my husband to start his own business, but he feels

guilty because his boss taught him how to do everything. How can I encourage him to leave his current employer so that he can make more money doing the same work but for himself instead of for someone else?" Well, Bethany, I don't know that you're supposed to be encouraging him to leave as opposed to just being supportive and allowing him to come to that conclusion. And the way that you can do that is by asking questions, not making suggestions.

I would have a sense here, Jade, that the excuse given, I'm not gonna leave because I feel guilty because my boss has taught me how to do everything and while he's griping to her about the fact that he does everything while the other guy leaves. Here's what I think, I think he's afraid. Yeah.

And which is why I'm saying, I'm trying to help Bethany out. I think he's afraid. And which is why I'm saying, I'm trying to help Bethany out. I think he's afraid to go out on his own. And while he's miserable, he's more afraid than he is miserable because we're more afraid of the unknown. So we'll stick with the devil we know, if you will. And I've just coached so many people who are in this

situation. So in her situation, and I love her and what she's trying to do, it's like, you can't push him because he's afraid. It's like trying to get your kid, remember the first time that your kids jumped in the pool and you caught them? You can't force them. As a parent, you gotta just encourage them

by saying, I'm here, I got you, I promise I'll catch you. You can't make the kid jump. And in this case, asking him questions like, what would it take? What would make you feel comfortable to actually leave? I get that you're guilty, but, and asking questions like that, having real conversations where he feels supported

and he feels heard, and I guess my point, I'm making you and I coach people all the time, a good coach doesn't tell their client what to do. A good coach asks a lot of questions and lets that person come to the awareness of, oh, if I were to go do a couple side jobs and get 15 grand in the bank and line up a pipeline of work,

I'd feel more comfortable leaving, or whatever that is. That's my take. That's true. What do you think? What do you think? You know what? I'm gonna go out on a limb here and I'm gonna take a hot take on this. I like it. I kind of feel like if somebody's gotta convince you

to go into business for yourself, you're probably not cut out for it. Because I kind of feel like if they've gotta really prod you and push you, because I think that true spirit is kind of innate. And it's like, oh, if I want something, I'm gonna go out and get it, I'm gonna go out and take it. innate and it's like oh if I want something I'm going to go out and get it I'm going to go out and take it and somebody needs to convince me why I

can't. I feel like it's got to go the opposite way. I don't disagree but the only caveat to that I would say is that I think some people are cut out to do it but they're scared to death. I do think that fear can play. Just like a kid can ride a bike, the kid can swim, but they gotta get to a place where they jump or where they get on the bike. But the spirit that you need to be successful long-term. Oh, I agree with what you're saying. Is definitely an innate spirit that says,

I do things afraid and I don't let fear stop me. I agree with that. And so, and then there's other part of this, this is just the practicality side. Just because you're good at swinging a hammer and good at home renovations does not mean that you'll be good at running a business because you know, Ken, there's all the back end stuff

that has zero to do with the skill on tap. You know what I'm saying? There's a lot going on here. There's a lot going on here. But do you agree though that he's not moving because he's just not ready? He's scared, yeah. Fear is.

Whatever's going on, it's that. Fear is the bigger thing and yeah. Yeah. All right, let's get to the phones. Triple eight, eight, two, five, five, two, it's that. Fear is the bigger thing and yeah. All right, let's get to the phones, triple eight, eight, two, five, five, two, two, five. Lindsay's up in, excuse me, yes, Washington, D.C. Lindsay, how can we help? Hi, it's so nice to talk to both of you.

Good to talk to you. What is going on today? Well, I'm calling because I want to better understand how to move from baby step three to four when you have competing priorities and you're trying to build thinking funds to actually take care of those things should they come up. All right, give us those priorities and by the way tell us who's competing. We need to know.

These are, it's the inevitable, right? So we have two 12 year old cars, both of which we've been told will need new transmissions. Yeah, we have two kids that will be entering braces. All of those funds. How much will the braces cost? The first estimate we got was about 3,000 for a year to start that work. And how old are they?

How old are they? 11, 10 and 11. Okay, keep going. So two old cars, two sets of braces. A 30 year old air conditioning unit. Oh man, it's always the AC. Okay, that's coming right next year Okay, and and these are all you know, like ten fifteen thousand dollar problems. Mm-hmm transmissions are that much? The recommended work is upwards of 11 on one car and 7,500 on the other.

Well, what is the car worth that they want you to pay 11K for? What's it worth? They're not worth that much. Okay, so we'll talk about that. Yeah. That seems high, doesn't it? The gear heads in the booth in there, that feels high.

I would at least get, I don't want to spend a bunch of time on this. I don't want to spend a bunch of time, no time, but I would say I'd get a couple more quotes on that. So let's walk through this. So you've got, do you have the three to six months? What do you have saved? 36,000.

You've got 36,000 saved. Now let's talk about this a little bit more. Tell me your income and tell me what your margin is every month. So we take in about 12,000 a month. And often we have leftover somewhere between 500 to 2,000 depending. What's wrong? Five to 2,000 depending. Okay.

So you're spending 10, it takes 10,000 at least to run your budget. Well, 2200 of that is savings automatic. Okay. But you've already hit when you say savings, do you mean investing or do you mean savings? Um, so we, I take 2200 per month and I put it into our emergency fund. Okay. And we just reached what we would need for three months. Okay, so you have the $22,000 that you're already used to saving plus another $2,000

of margin. So about $4,000, is that fair? Yes. So $4,000 of margin that you could save if you needed to. So if I factor this through emergency fund thinking, which emergency fund for me is it's totally expected, it's completely urgent, and it's time sensitive. Those are the three factors. You mean totally unexpected? Yeah, totally unexpected.

I'm sorry. Totally unexpected, totally necessary. And there's a time factor. Those are the three things that filter for that I have to check the box up to say I'm pulling this out of my emergency fund. So let's talk about do any of them actually fit that I have to go into the emergency fund, the two old cars, is that unexpected? Is it completely necessary? And is it something that is completely time sensitive? You tell me.

completely necessary and is it something that is completely time sensitive? You tell me. Well, it's all about timing. I would think no. I would rather prep for that. Okay, so that already tells me this is something we can cash flow. We can cash flow one at a time. Do what Ken said, get some quotes, cash flow one at a time. Same thing with the braces. They will be fine if they wait a little bit longer. So I don't think that that falls into emergency fund. The only one that might is the AC. That's the only one that gets the green light for me that it might be. But I think you saw this coming. So I think there's a way to cash flow this and make it work. It's just going to be long term. Yeah, I got a lot to take care of, but four grand a month adds up. It sure does. And then you'll start your investing.

All right. You got it. Good job, Jade. This is The Ramsey Show. Folks, changing your family tree takes more than rice and beans and side hustles. It's also about transferring the big financial risks off your family by having the right kinds of coverage in place. That's why my team created the coverage checkup quiz. It only takes about five minutes to find out what types of insurance you need and don't need to protect your finances. Make this quiz one of your regular checkups starting right now at

ramsysolutions.com slash checkup. That's ramsysolutions.com slash checkup. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. So excited that you are with us. I'm Ken Coleman and Jade Warshaw is in studio with me as well. 888-8255-225. Hey, the Get Clear Career Assessment. What is it? It is a 18 to 20 minute self-awareness test. If I were going to define it and I designed it, so I'm gonna define it. You do that. And it's gonna help you figure out what you do best, what you enjoy doing most, and the results that motivate you. Those are three things that you need to know to figure out the work that you're wired to do. Remember Davis said for decades your income is your greatest wealth building

tool and I believe that and that's my role here on the Ramsey Show is to help people find that work that they can do best so that they can get paid the most for themselves to live the life, fund the life that they want. So this has helped so many people and you can get it at ramsysolutions.com slash get clear, ramsysolutions.com slash get clear. Who needs it? That'd be the person who feels stuck, somebody who feels like they may want to pivot, somebody who's looking for some confidence, a student in college or high school.

We have a student version, ideal for high school students and college students and then we have the adult version as well, ramsysolutions.com slash get clear. Love that. Good job, Ken. Thank you, ramsysolutions.com slash get clear. Love that. Alex, thank you, thank you. Alex is in Dallas, Texas. Alex, how can we help? Hey guys, I appreciate you taking my call. Thank you, what's going on?

First off, I was just looking for some advice. I just turned 23, and I hit a financial goal of mine in savings, but I still live with my family. I was wondering if what y'all would say, do I take the financial hit and move out like in favor of personal growth? Yes.

Yes, Lord. Yeah. I mean, the answer to that is always gonna be yes. Sometimes it's yes, and then we need to figure out when, but what you've presented to us is that you've been saving up a bunch of money and you've hit a goal and feels like you're absolutely in a place financially where this is a good move but give us the picture. Okay so my financial goal was

a hundred thousand and I just hit that. In savings? It's a no-brainer. Oh my gosh. It's a behind-the-back pass. I just said yes at a thousand dollars. Yeah. Tomorrow instantly. No, truly. Way to go, by the way. That's crazy. Can we just stop and say $100,000 and how long did it take you to save that? About five years of working. Wow.

How old are you now? 23. Wow. So you started at 18 and you have amassed $100,000 in savings. Yes, sir. Yeah, bro. Wow. Get out of the nest.

That's a- Impressive, though. That's goat mentality. That's very, very good. No debt, right? No other debt in addition to- No, no debt at all. Most of it's in like a Roth IRA

and then a 401k Roth IRA. Oh, so this is retirement. This isn't in savings. So in actual cash savings, I have a brokerage account with about 35,000 and then my checking account has about seven grand. Okay that... The rest is in retirement? Yes. Okay seven grand in the account. Okay. You're in great shape. You're in great shape. You did it a little in a different kind of order. It's

$100,000 nonetheless. But the truth is not as much of this as liquid as I thought, which is fine. You can still get into an apartment. What was the goal? Was the goal I'm going to buy a house or I'm going to just move out into an apartment? What was your goal? I don't think I can afford to buy a house at the moment, unfortunately, the way things are.

So I was looking more at apartments. If it was liquid, you could, but since you locked in in retirement, yeah, you cannot. What do you do for a living and how much do you make? So I do marketing. I'm an associate marketing manager and I make $55,000 a year. Cool. So yeah, if I'm you, I would probably save up

the equivalent of three to six months of expenses. That would be my last thing that I do under my parents' roof. And you should be able to do that lickety split. And I would keep it liquid. He's already got it. He's got 35K in cash. It's in a brokerage. It's not in index funds? So some of it is. I think I probably have about half of it invested right now. Yeah. Oh, I thought you said 35K.

Listen, if it's invested, I don't, for my purposes, if it's invested, I don't, for my purposes, if it's invested, I don't care for you to pull, I mean, I think you're in a place like, hey, I can save this up right quick. You don't necessarily have to pull it out. If you wanted to, if you're in a hurry, that's fine. It's not retirement money. But what I would do.

It's not in their free interest right now. Yeah, you're obviously in an environment where you can stay with your parents and it's not caused a problem. But if I were you, I'd take, you know, a little bit longer. I'd save up three to six months, whatever is liquid, put that all together, and then I'd move out. Okay. Yeah, I got no problem with that.

So what's the timeline? You tell us. Yeah, I mean, I was thinking basically the most that I was thinking about extending it was a year because I was thinking, hey, my car's pretty old. No, that's too long. Yeah, you're too comfortable. That's the problem. I mean, I got mad respect for you. I mean, I really do.

Of course. You are very disciplined financially, but I think from an emotional and a maturity situation at your age, you're a little too comfy hanging out at mom and dad's. And extending it another year, I start to get nervous about that, man. Yeah, I mean, you've already got 7,000 liquid. I mean, what do you need, another 10,000? Yeah, my only concern's my car.

Like, it didn't start yesterday. Okay, but at that point, now we're just in big boy mode. Like, you can't say, I'm gonna make all of my financial worries go away at my parents house. It was really just the intent was for you to kind of set yourself up and give yourself a little foundation to take off and then you're into the world. I wanna throw something out here.

Jade may disagree with me on this. Because his money is in a brokerage account, so it's after tax money that he's put in. I would pull some of that money out and get a car. Yeah, the brokerage account. Yes, 100%. You agree? Yeah. And now he's got a reliable car. And then I'm just putting that into the front of your plan.

Yeah, I would do that. You said there's 35 in the brokerage account and then you've got the car that's acting up now. If you sold it now as is, what would you get for it? Off. Nothing? Maybe a grand and a half grand. It's a piece of junk. So we're starting over from scratch and let's just- Get a $10,000 car.

What do you think, leave 25 in? You know what? What do you think? He's done such a good job. 15? We're negotiating. We're negotiating over how much he's gonna spend on a car. I love this.

Hot take. He's done such a good job. Oh, don't say it. That if you say, if you're able to save up three months of expenses, I would say that if you wanna spend 30,000, you could. I wouldn't wanna buy a new car, I don't think. No, I didn't say brand new, I said used.

He has the money, he's got 100,000 saved. Who are you and what have you done with my friend, Jade? He's got three, check the boxes, Ken. He's got three to, he'll have three to six months of expenses saved. I'm with you. He'll be investing 15%. Totally with you.

He'll be living out on his own. He's got $135,000 saved and he's 23 years old. Yeah, 30 grand. That's a slam dunk. No, you gotta read the room. This guy, he's up tight. He's up tight and he doesn't need a $30,000 car. I'm saying he could. I know know but I thought that's what you recommended

I'm going 15 max Alex I'm saying he could listen if you've done the work I'm saying if you've done the work Somebody hit me in the comments and let me know that I'm not losing it Anybody who's watched you on this show for any amount of time is in a state of shock No, they're not because they know that thirty thousand dollars. They know that I'm not frugal to a fault They know that at the right time when you've saved them audience. I'm talking to the studio audience at this point He's 23 years old. He saved a hundred and Forty two thousand dollars the people are already speaking before you can even

Mama in the back is like oh no there comes down 15,000 here's why let me explain my take 15,000 gets him a very nice and reliable car And it leaves a good chunk in the brokerage account he doesn't he doesn't need it in his brokerage account. He's 23 He's got 100,000 invested. He does need it in there, because it's gonna continue to pile up. So is the 100,000.

He doesn't need it. He does not need a $30,000 card. If he was 42, this would be a different conversation. I can see this is going nowhere. He makes $55,000 a year. Alex, what do you think? I think I would have a little bit harder time spending about 30 grand on a car.

You don't have to, I'm just saying you could. Right. Listen, I'm the fun parent, y'all are trippin'. 15 is more into my, Yeah. I'm backed up by being frugal, I think I'm comfortable there. Trust me Alex, I know.

Then you do what you're comfortable with. First of all, I love this version of Jade. I'm not throwing shade at Jade. I'm just saying I'm shocked because I'd like to see him be more conservative because he already is. I think 15 makes him uncomfortable. That's why he has proven to be a conservative, responsible guy. I'm not worried about him. He's doing all the right things. You gotta celebrate a little bit. I'm gonna celebrate the fact that the studio audience is in favor of me.

I'm never that right. So I wanna just soak in the moment. It'll never happen again. Oh, it won't happen again. She is the incomparable Jade Warshaw. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, you're still here? What are you doing? You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey Network

app, right? All you gotta do to finish the episode is search Ramsey Network in the App Store, Google Play Store, or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for free. Yep, you heard me right, for free. Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show. Bada bing, bada boom.

All right, I'm getting out of here. Enjoy, we'll see you on the app.