The Ramsey Show - Debt Doesn’t Have to Run Your Life

Episode Date: September 24, 2026

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I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Jade Warsha. We are answering your questions about life and money. So give us a call at AAA 825-5-2-2-2-5. Up first, we have Andrew in Providence, Rhode Island. Hi, Andrew, welcome to the show. Hi, guys. Thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help? So I have a question.

So I'm a licensed plumber, and I'm very fortunate enough to have a high paying job that I've been working for is going for many years and a partner and I have opened up a side business that has actually turned into something within the last five years and my question is is how do you know when it's how do you know when it's time to stop letting fear of the unknown hold you back and actually take the leap of going full time with the business I love this question So tell me more about the fear of the unknown. Like what's your fear?

Like when you look at this, tell us the things that you look at and think, oh gosh, what if that happens? What if this happens? What if that happens? Tell us what it is. So I think a little bit of it has to do with financially. I mean, I'm not in any debt of any sort other than my mortgage. But I, like I said, I do have a high paying job for the field that I'm in. Okay.

Within this past year, I've proved to myself that the side business income can outdo my normal full-time income. How many months has it outdone your normal income? My base income up to date is roughly like 180. Okay. So my full-time job, and my side job right now, I'm just over $300,000. Oh, my gosh. Wow. So every single month you've outpaced your normal job. And that's doing it part-time. Correct. So I'm not going to lie to you. So I am full-time during the day for my company,

and then I'm full-time for the side hustle as well. And that's another reason why I'm struggling and trying to figure out to make the jump because I do have a five-year-old child. Is it? And I want to be there. What kind of industry is it that you're in, the side job? Plumbing. Plumbing in HVAC. Oh, is the side? Correct, yeah. That's what you started. Okay, I'm so sorry. I got you.

But you have a partner, so if you were making three, three, whatever you said, you're only receiving half of that, right? No, no, no. So we're over a million dollars this year between me and my partner. But what's profit? What's profit? So profit, we're roughly like $600,000 between the two of us. Wow.

So you're taking, you could take home $300,000. Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay, so what's in retained earnings? What do you mean by that? Sorry. So your company, you guys should have some money that you're setting aside. Six months would be good. Three months would be good of money that's like, hey, this is what it takes to operate the business. If we have down months or low months, what do you guys have set aside in the business? So right now we have roughly 70,000 set aside in the business. Every job that we complete, because it's just been a side hustle for us, we contribute 15% back into the business. Very good. Okay. Yeah.

And usually these service companies, Andrew, they don't have great margins, but yours is unbelievable. So I'm wondering how you're, what this looks like with equipment and are you guys just going in and fixing? Are you installing? What are you guys doing? I would do everything, so we don't say no to anything. It's new construction, a lot of commercial projects within the last year. Okay. And that's what's making it tough now.

It's to the point where it's kind of affecting my day job. Yeah, sure. I built a very good reputation with the employer that I work with, and it's not fair to him to me to be putting my effort into my own business and kind of lacking on, you know. So how many, obviously you're doing really well, and how many months have you been in business? Just this.

So we've been doing, we've been a legitimate LLC for the last five years. Okay. And in the last five years, you know, we started out with, you know, just picking up crumbs and going $25,000 profit for the first year. Okay. So you've really just grown organically to this point. And honestly, when I hear that, Andrew, it sounds like somebody, it sounds like two people who have done this the right way, which is you started with what you had, a little bit of time here, a little bit more here. And now you're at the point where it's like, gosh, you've really grown this. You've got the 70,000. How many operating months is 70,000? What does that get you? Let's just say you had a couple of down months. How far does that 70,000 go? So I mean, I think it would carry us for a good two to three months.

I mean, it varies because some of our supply house bills in a month can be 30, 40,000, and then sometimes it could be 10,000. Yeah. So it's, yeah. Well, you've given us, I mean, honestly, Andrea, I feel like you've been overly conservative to stay in your full-time job. Because, I mean, we usually would say if someone's side hustle makes it, like, even half of what their normal gig is making and they could double the time on the side hustle to match it like that's a really good starting point and some people just kind of jump ship and start there and you've done it for lots of

months and you've doubled it I mean you've tripled about doubled yeah doubled what you would have made and there's enough proof that I mean obviously the business and how you guys are running it is working and it's been slow so I mean I for sure think doing this full time because I I think there does get to a point, like what you're saying is you're, someone's paying you to do another job. If you're doing something else. You know, like so, no, I think you're to that point. I think one of the biggest red flags we sometimes see or avenues that people can walk down

that is not great, especially in the service industry, because we work with so many small businesses and Entry leadership, is you're going to, as you put all your efforts into this, because it's just been split a little bit because of your other job, it probably is. is going to continue to grow, but grow at the speed of cash because it's so easy to be like, gosh, we need three more trucks. We need to hire someone. And again, equipment in this industry, which you would know better than I would. But yeah, it's a lot to manage inventory and all of it. And so making sure you're ahead from a cash perspective and you don't go down the debt road would be the only time I could see you getting in trouble and getting in over your skis.

Got it. I agree. And we'll gift you Dave's book, Build a Business you love. It sounds like you're on the right track, but that can help you fill in any gaps to continue to grow this. And yeah, I mean, I'm with Rachel. I would say green light. Like if your wife feels good about it and you feel good about it, make the jump. You're there financially for sure. Yes. And in that book, I'm pretty sure it has a section on partnerships or on trade leadership might.

But it's something to consider, too. If you're going all in on this business and there's someone. And there's someone else tied to it, Andrew, which obviously, you and your partner have done this for five years. so you're in motion. But just being out ahead, if this is your livelihood, of what that looks like from the partnership perspective, if something happens or what that looks like. That could be another conversation to have

just to mitigate any level of risk in it. But that's amazing, Andrew. That's like everyone's dream. Dream is to start something on the side that they love and they're good at and it takes off and that's their livelihood. It's awesome. So well done.

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How can we help? Good. So I have about, I did the math. We have about $53,000 worth of the credit card debt. Okay. And I have a retirement of a pension, and I have a thing called what's called like a drop account. It's a deferred retirement option plan. when you retire. So when you separate from your job, you still work at your job. They take your

pension money and they invest it for five years. In what? In the five years, you completely separate. Oops, sorry. What's it invested in? In the market. I took an index. I'm not sure. Okay. It's some kind of like, I don't know with an index fund or something. Okay. But it's market rate. Okay. So when you officially retire, you do now have your pension. You have your drop account, they call it. And then you have that. So I was thinking about taking my Roth IRA that I've been putting into the last couple of years and just depleting that and just paying off the car debt. And because I have the other two retirements when I retire. That makes sense.

Right. But you've got time to pay off the $53,000. How old are you? Right. $35. How much do you make? I think last year. we took in about 120 or took about 120, 1-25, I think.

And then my wife took in probably like another 9,000. She worked part-time. Okay. Okay. So about 130 before taxes. So no, Joseph, I would not pull money out of any retirement account because not only are you unplugging all the growth that it's, you know, that it's building into right now, but you are going to be paying a penalty.

and when you pull the money out early. And so avoiding that penalty, letting that money go, and then cash flowing this credit card debt. Because I guess it technically would be an easy button just to take money out and then pay off the debt and be done. But again, you're unplugging something that is continuing to grow. And yes, even if you feel like you have enough in the other retirement accounts,

I would say I would rather have more in retirement and sacrifice for about 14 months of my life and pay off this credit card debt. What else do you have in retirement? What's in the pension? What will be in that deferred drop? Sorry. Yeah, the pension is just based off your salary at the end of your career. Like at the end of when you go to retire, it seems like the last couple of years.

Okay. So it fluctuates, you know, depending on what the salary is. I guess my bigger question, let me get to my, are you trying to retire earlier than average? Is that what you're attempting to do? Well, yeah, like my retirement, I would be eligible to retire probably around, what is it? I have like 15 years left. Okay. I guess I was-

I was trying to get to, it's generally, and Rachel talked about this, but it's generally a pretty desperate act for people to be looking towards draining their retirement to pay off a debt or pay off their, you know, pay off their home early or something like that. And so I was just trying to find out what was so dire straits that you felt like you needed to do something like that. I was just kind of sick of like the paycheck to the paycheck. Like, you know, we messed up. We made a mistake. Some of we had to do.

Some of we didn't have to do. Is the $53,000 the only debt? Or is there more out there? Yeah, that's the only debt on credit card. We have about $150 in our, we have a mortgage for like $360. Uh-huh. And then we have, we took out, we had to replace a few things. So we took out like a hundred fifty thousand dollars equity.

Okay. So there's a he lock of 150. Yeah. Yeah. Locked in rate at eight for a percent. Let's talk about that for a second because my question is what caused the 53,000 of credit card debt? And you're making 130, you're feeling like you're living paycheck to paycheck. That kind of feels like a budget issue or like a month to month issue.

Because you make, I mean, the truth is you make too much. feel that broke, wouldn't you agree? Yes. Yeah. So if I were you, do you guys have an every dollar budget? Yeah, I have the app. I haven't really used it. There we go.

Yeah. I think that's the problem here. I think that if you and your wife opened up every dollar tonight and just said, you know what, our homework for this week is we're actually going to set a budget that we both agree with. We're going to sit down together. We're going to fill this thing in. and we're going to let this be the guiding principle of how we spend our money. And I think that when you sit down with that, Joseph,

you guys are going to find where you actually do have margin. And I think you're going to find the areas that you had no idea that you were overspending in such a major way. Yeah, because you guys have been shuffling around debt to fix things. You've got the he lock out, you know, the credit card debt. Now you want to pull money from retirement to pay this off. But never once have you had to say, what do I have to have? to change. I can't just be grabbing money from all these places to fix the problem. The problem with our money is us, right? And so by doing the budget, like what Jade's saying, it's going to

expose and show you guys how you're actually handling money. And the scary thing is, people will do that with retirement accounts. And then they look up in two years. No habit has changed. They keep living how they've been living. And you look up and you got another $25,000 in credit card debt. And you're like, oh, man, we shouldn't have done that. But the pain of the process of, forcing yourself to change and forcing yourself to pay this off, that changes you guys as a couple. And ultimately, that's what you want at the end of the day, is we don't want an easy button to press and to wipe this clean because that doesn't do much for our behavior change. My prediction, Joseph, my prediction is you guys, you'll sit down tonight, you'll do this budget,

you're probably going to find that much of the money that you are looking for has been eaten away in some form of entertainment or meal or gross. grocery or trips, right? And when you start to tighten that up, my guess is that you'll be out of this $53,000 of debt in the next year or so, you'll be able to clean it up. And then you're going to save three to six months of expenses. And I think once you do that, it's going to change the whole trajectory of how you experience your money. Because then when things pop up, things that are unexpected emergencies, you're not going to be reaching to helox. When something needs to be done on the house, you're going to have the cash flow to actually do it.

And I think that you guys locking in for the next 18 months and doing what it takes to knock out this debt, stack up your first three months of expenses, I think it's going to change you. Have you ever had three months saved? No, no. Yeah. So, I mean, honestly, $3,000 a month gets you guys out of debt in about 18 months, 17, 18 months. And my prediction is, my hope is that as you guys go through this process, you find more money somewhere else that's not retirement. And you're like, oh, you know, there's some here. throw it, you get a raise, you decide to work an extra job, like, right? This snowball effect really happens. And pay off, is it multiple credit cards? How many equal to 53? Yeah, I think all of them together, it's like six total. Okay. So lists them out, Joseph, smallest to largest, each of those credit cards, and start with the smallest one and just knock it out. And you start going down that list and down that line. And there's something empowering about it. And it's another testimony that, credit cards, they're not helpful. They're not there to help you and set you up to win, right? Right. They've gotten you guys in trouble. So cut them up. All six of them need to be gone.

And this is really shifting from this paycheck to paycheck living out of desperation. We're going to pull money from our house, from our retirement, just to feel more secure. You're going to go from there all the way to actually, from a number standpoint, truly being secure because you're going to be in control of your income doing a budget. You're going to be paying off your debt. And in 18 months, you will have no credit card debt. You'll still have your retirement account out there. And you guys will have your money that you're working so hard for. And you're going to control it and actually be the adults in the room. And that's a beautiful thing. And then you expand that out five, ten years. And a lot of great things can happen. So Joseph, you've been given some very

clear homework. And I'm going to add one more thing to the list that's going to help you find money really fast. So we told you tonight you're doing every dollar will give you that for free. Rachel said, do the debt snowball, list them smallest to largest. That's the way to do it. She also told you to cut up your credit cards. And I'm going to add one final piece of homework, which is, I want you to pause retirement investing. I think that you're still putting some aside to go to that drop account. Let's pause that temporarily. So you have that money at your disposal so that you can do the things that Rachel is telling you, those four pieces of homework. Yep. Well done, Joseph. We're glad you called in. Call us back. Let us know how it goes.

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Find your info and removes it, and you never have to lift a finger. Plus, they keep monitoring for it and removing it if and when it pops up again. You don't have to remove your own info every time it pops up like some unwinnable game of whackamole. I personally use and love delete me, and my scammy texts and spammy calls have gone way down. Trust delete me to smack down data brokers and protect your personal info so the game of whackamole can finally stop. Go to join delete me.com slash Ramsey, and you'll get 20% off an annual plan. That's join J-O-I-N delete me.com slash Ramsey or click the link in the description. Jade, on the last call, we were talking about part of getting control of your money is doing every dollar.

Yes. And getting control of your income is one of the basic first steps of winning with money because your income is what you do everything with, right? From saving to giving to investing to paying off debt. And so using your income for good things in your financial world is very important. but knowing where it's going is what's key. So if you guys haven't checked out every dollar, make sure to do that. You can do it for free

by downloading it in the app store or Google Play. So not only is it a great budget, there's great budgeting features in it to help you control your income and know where it's going, but also just the roadmap of your overall financial picture. So again, you can download it

in the app store or Google Play. I just go to Matthew in Orlando. Hi, Matthew. Welcome to the show. Hi, how are you today? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help? Good.

So I am 20 years old. I make about $58,000 a year. I'm a server in Orlando. And my question is I'm looking to get my first home, a condo, about $110,000. And there's a program in my area like in Orlando that's a down payment assistance. That's a forgivable grant for $40,000 that I don't have to pay back as long as I live there for 15 years. I have a car payment. I owe about $23,000. I bought about two years ago. $3.58 a month. And then I have two personal loans with each balance is about $5,000. One is $147 a month and one is $1211 a month. Okay.

And then I have about eight credit cards, but I have no balances on them. Then why have them? Just as comfort? I have them. Well, I have the United card, and I do that to get, like, all my miles, but I don't have, like, any, like, debt on them. Okay. I'm so glad you called in, Matthew. I, and I just, I don't know how you guys feel about downpayment assistance, or I just, I wanted some advice. Yeah, they're usually not great programs. Either you're having to get a double loan, and they do a down payment loan with the mortgage. Like, there's that. There's sometimes fees associated with these, or strings of tap. 15 years in a condo, Matthew? Crazy work.

No. No. We're not doing that. We can't do that. You're not going to be in that condo for 15 years, Matthew? Let's take a poll. We have a wonderful studio audience out there. How many of you have been in the exact same place with zero movement and zero change in your life for 15 years?

Well, all the kids. We have a school. We have a school age people back there. They're all raising their hands. The point is, that is. Not the case ever with anyone's life. I mean, what if you get a new job? What if something happens and you have to move?

You don't want to lock yourself into a situation for 15 years. And I would say that with a job. I would say that with a student loan forgiveness thing. I would say that with a mortgage. Like anything, if it sounds too good to be true, Matthew, it usually probably is. And this doesn't even sound that good to be true. Yeah, Matthew, you are not in a position. I don't think to own a home.

I know you want to, and I want you to be able to soon. but right now, I mean, man, you've got a car that's almost half your annual income. You got two loans. You're playing the credit card game. I mean, there's just a lot up in the air. I mean, you're not, let's just call a spade a spade. You're just, you don't have a good financial foundation right now. And if you build anything on top of that foundation today, it's going to crumble. Didn't you say you're 20 years old? Yes. So why are you in such a, why do you feel such a rush to buy a house under such to the point of finding assistance

and not putting a down pay? Why do you feel such rush? Well, I actually, I wasn't technically like in a rush. I've been renting for about a year and a half, but then I heard about this program. I was going to wait a few years

and save for the 3% and then that's when I was going to do it. But then I heard about this program and I just, I didn't really know if it was that good of a decision and I wanted to look into it more and I want to because I look at you guys' a show. I watch your TikToks. Well, Rachel and I'm trying to get out of my personal loans,

and I think I can get out of that within a year. Oh, good. Yes, yes. Rachel and I are going to be your big sisters and help you with this because I think, Matthew, you're in such a wonderful place. You're still really young. You're 20 years old. And now is the time to lock in on the habits

that are really going to help you solidify that foundation that we were talking about earlier. And Rachel is right, $23,000, car. My first place to start would be for you to have $1,000 saved. It sounds like you don't have any saved. So let's get $1,000 saved. That's Baby Step 1. Okay, then that moves us on to Baby Step 2, which if you follow our TikToks, you know we are going to tell you to drain that down to $1,000, and we're going to tell you to put any extra savings above the thousand onto your debt, just consumer debt. And let's knock that out along with your income. You have the $8,000,000. You have the

eight credit cards that have a zero balance. If you really do rock with what we're saying, let's go ahead and cut those up because it's just temptation in your pocket waiting to happen. And you're spending more with them just so you know versus if it was a debit card. Yeah, well, I always like pay off my balances and like I built up my miles and my points. But look what you have to show for it. You don't have anything to show for it, Matthew. You've only got a bunch of debt.

And you were looking over here trying to do a crazy down payment assistant program that going to put you in a worse way. So I would argue that what you're doing right now isn't giving you much to show for it. Because right now, if we were putting positive money habits as tally marks, positive and negative, I don't see any that are in the positive just yet. Besides the $5,000 that you saved. So we applaud you for that, for sure. But everything else, it's just, yeah, it feels a little.

You're playing the game. It's like a little sloppy. I think if you tightened it up and you said, you know what, I'm only spending a certain amount on food every month. I'm only doing this, this, and this. I'm just using my money. I'm going to spend my money in the present, meaning I'm not going to get a bill at the end of the month.

And you are like really militant, Matthew, and maybe you even work extra hours. I think you can get this cleaned up. And you may even consider selling your car. I mean, I don't know how much it's worth, but that's something to look into, too, if you want. So there's there's some levers to pull here that I think will help you get ahead, but continuing to play the debt game and going deeper in debt with this assistance program before you even have, you know, an emergency fund saved would not be wise. So no, I would hold off on being a homeowner and start working your way out of this debt first and foremost. But you can do it,

Matthew. I mean, honestly, this is so many people start at this point and they make such progress so fast. Yeah. And, you know, again, 20 years old, I think there's a lot of pressure out there. You feel like you're competing with whatever you see on social media. You feel like you're competing with what you feel like, you know, you should have by now. Some of us are competing with what our parents have. And we're trying to create that life that we just came out of. You know, they've got the homes and the cars and they're taking the vacations. And so I would just tell you, Matthew, that you are in exactly where you need to be. You've got your first job. It sounds like you're making a good amount of money. But now let's lock in on the right habits that are actually going to build a good foundation to

where you can build lasting wealth. And it really does start with taking your money to Rachel's point and deciding what you're going to do with it. If you make the right choices with your own income, you will not have to borrow a dime from anyone until when you come time to buy your house, that's fine if you want to do a small mortgage there. But do you see what I'm saying? Yeah. Yes. It's powerful. All right. We got Angela from Facebook. She said, what are your thoughts on making micro payments to pay down debt at the end of every pay cycle? may have $20 to $30 left in my budget. Should I go ahead and throw that at my smallest debt to lower the balance or throw a little bit at each one? So I liken this to on a Saturday morning if you've ever had like a huge list of chores. Yes. And you're like, all right, I'm going to do a little bit of the gardening, but I'm not going to finish it. I'm going to kind of do the dishes, but not finish it. I'm kind of going to put a load of laundry in but not finish it. I'm going to vacuum half of the room but not finish. Like you will not, you will have spent the whole day twailing and not have one single thing to show for it.

Completed. Nothing completed. But how great would it feel to just vacuum and then check that off your list to finish the dishes, check it off your list? It's the same thing with debt. Finish one. Focus on the smallest debt.

And that goes for anybody listening. Whatever your smallest debt is, you might have 10 debts. I challenge you. Focus on the one debt. Make minimum payments on everything, but focus all your extra margin to the smallest debt.

I promise you, you will pay it off quickly and you will feel so much better being able to check that one thing off your list and you'll be motivated to tackle the next thing. If you're serious about building a business, you need an easy way for customers to buy from you. Yeah, that sounds obvious. But a lot of business owners leave money on the table.

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is there to answer questions and keep you moving. You've got enough to think about just running your business. The last thing you need is to lose sales because the buying experience lets you down. All you need is the idea. Shopify handles the rest. Start your free trial at Shopify.com slash Ramsey. That's Shopify.com slash Ramsey. Shopify.com slash Ramsey. If you're wondering why we keep mentioning the baby steps,

it's because they are really the foundation on everything that we teach. So if you are new here, start there. We can have a link down below to walk you through what those are. But the seven baby steps really is your guide to what to do with your money from feeling possibly out of control, feeling like your paycheck to paycheck, you have nothing to show for it, not a lot in savings,

to all the way, all the way to Babysep 7, which is everything's paid off, including your house. You're doing retirement, kids, college fund is funded. You got money in the bank, and you just are feeling great.

So it gets you there. It takes some years, take some time. It's definitely, we always say it's a crock pot, not a microwave around here, but man, the journey, it's worth it.

Okay, so let's do a quick teaching on this because I think it's worth it. So seven baby steps. Let's just go through them real quick because we started with the last caller. Baby step one, you get the $1,000 saved. Baby step two, you pay off all your debt, except your mortgage using the debt snowball. Baby step three, you're saving three to six months of expenses.

Baby step four, you're investing 15% of your gross. Baby step five, you're putting aside an amount of your choice to a 529 or college plan for your kids. Baby step six, you're putting aside extra money to pay for, to pay your house down. Again, up to you how much you want to do that. step seven, you live and give like no one else. And by the way, if you're thinking of buying a house, that's back in baby step three. We call it three B. You can say for a down payment. But I said all that because I want to say sometimes people are like, Jade, Rachel, baby steps in today's economy. That really feels like giant leaps to pay off your debt, to save for a down payment. And so I just

wanted to take this moment to think about a question that I get a lot of times on social media, which is I, where can I start before that? Like, is there anything that I can kind of do to kind of like ease my way into these steps? And I thought that like, that's a very fair question. Yes, yes. And the first thing is, and this is so important. And a lot of people glaze over it, but you really can't do the baby steps unless you have a budget. That's thing one.

So many people will kind of ramp, try to ramp into the things we teach, Rachel, but they don't have a budget yet. So if you haven't done that, that's precursor. like, let's do that first. And then the second one is something that I think in many ways is very easy to do, but it costs people a lot mentally. And that is the very first step that you can make for yourself is simply to say, I'm not going to borrow anymore. And if you're sitting there watching this and you're like, gosh, this feels overwhelming, can you just start there? Can you start with saying the credit cards in my wallet? I'm not going to scan them anymore. I'm not going to look to debt. I'm not going to drain my 401k. And put that.

into practice month after month and when you feel like, oh gosh, I feel like I'm actually able to use my own income. Now let's start with baby step one. And I think that that's a very reasonable place for anybody in today's economy, no matter what you're facing. It's a good place to start. It's great. All right. Let's go to Sophie in Providence, Rhode Island. Hi, Sophie. Welcome to the show. Hi. Thank you. How are you guys doing? We're doing great. How can we help? I came here looking for some advice. I'll tell you a little bit about myself. I'm 25. I'm a construction project manager. I make six figures. I have about $220,000 fully invested. I have no debt. I own my car. I live really, really cheaply. Well done, Sophie. I feel like, thank you. Thank you. My parents taught me, well. They're huge fans.

and they made it very clear that this is how we live. Sophie's 25 making six figures like, this is how we live. We do it. Hey, it's worked. It's worked. It's pretty amazing. They didn't give me an option. They said, this is what we do.

They sent me to college, and they said, go do well for yourself. I love it. I love that. Sophie, awesome. So, yeah, things are pretty great personally, except for one thing. I've been on and off with a guy for over three years now. The dude.

It's always the guy. You think he does what? I think he hates money. A combination of being afraid of it and hating it. What do you mean by hate it? He doesn't have a career. So he hates working. He hates working.

He thinks rich people are evil. And he's your boyfriend? Do you find him really attractive? So we're both kind of, very outdoorsy. We do a lot of like skiing, mountain biking. We have a great time together. But then once reality sets in about once a week, when I sit him down and say like, what are you doing?

Yeah. It's not so good. So he's just mountain bikins during the day. He's just flutzen those muscles. How old is he? So he's 29. We've known each other for over three years. Man.

I don't still around at different jobs, mostly part-time. And then I told them one day. And you think you can change him? Because that's what this is boiling down to, right? You think that if you have enough conversations with him after three years, you can change him into being more like you? Not even more like, maybe more like me. I don't know.

I always ask him, do you want a future? And he's like, well, we don't know what we're doing in the future, so we don't need to stay for it. He's told you, Sophie. He's told you. I guess if he hadn't told you in three years, you're not listening.

Sophie, I am, I'm very, it's very interesting because to me I'm like, man, I bet he's like a really fun friend, but to have a life partner

like that, um, yeah, with the numbers you gave us and how solid you are, I'm kind of shocked he's still around. I mean, I think that he's hoping that we stay together and then I can kind of

I bet he is. I bet he is. What are you hoping? He's got a girlfriend making six figures. I mean, heck yeah. You're a catch. I'm just, thank you. I just hope.

I hope that one day he just wakes up. How many years? Okay, let's play this game. Because you're 25, you ain't getting any younger, and you've been in this for three years with this guy. What, we have to set boundaries and respect your time and his time. So let's just say in your perfect world, or in a fair world, how much time do you think that you would give this to either see some sort of forward movement or not?

Is it a six month? Like in six months, if he's still talking the same talk and walking the same walk, I got to walk. Or is it I'm accepting him for who he is and I'm just moving past this and that's that on that or I'm letting the relationship go? I'm tempted to accept him for who he is. But a year ago when he didn't have a job, I gave him six months to get one. and then he got one, but he hasn't saved a penny. But don't you feel like you're mothering him? If you don't get a job, if you don't get up, if you don't do your laundry.

Sophie, here's the harsh reality. It is. I bet he's not a bad guy. I think he's lazy and he's a little bit in the clowns with all of his theories about life. That's not reality. But what the biggest problem is your value systems do not line up, Sophie. You're going to be, if you go forward with this, What marriage is going to look like in five years is you're going to, you're going to probably

be the breadwinner. He's going to probably have a level of resentment at any level of, because you're probably the top one percent. If you have $220,000 invested, you are the rich person he's talking about from a number's perspective when you look at the average around the country. Maybe he's what? Maybe he thinks I'm the evil one. Maybe. I don't know. If you're not today, you will be. But it's, yeah. And then, I mean, and Sophie, your entire, your entire relationship will be an uphill battle. And it's not because, and I'm not honing in on just specifically the money piece. It's the way at which you view the world is very different than him.

In the big, in the grown-up things of life. Okay, yes, y'all can enjoy the outdoors and like mountain bike together. But when you're actually looking at life and you look at Sophie at 35, 40 years old, like where Jade and I are sitting with kids and a life, I am telling you, You want a partner who's running beside you, supporting you, encouraging you, you're doing the same to them. There's a level of safety, a level of unity. We are running this race together. Our household is built on a set of values that we agree upon and that we are running this race,

locked arm, hand in hand, and take it on life together. This guy sounds like you're going to wake up every day and have to remind them where's toothbrushes. That's pretty much how it is. And I guess I've just been hoping. Girl, fly to Nashville. Come hang out with me and Jay. Please. You got to take a break from.

We'll take you for a margarita. You got to be done, girl. There's other great guys right now. I think what I thought you'd say. What do your parents say? Not that they get a vote, but what do they say? He left, he wasn't around for a while. And they were pretty happy.

And they were like, nice kid. But when's he going to wake up? And then he came back around and they were like, oh, no. Yep. I would say, follow some wisdom. to them from people. And again, still be friends. I mean, poor guy. So you can be kind to him, but is he going to be a lifelong partner for you, Sophie? He's not my pick for my daughter. That's for sure. Hey, this is Dr. John Deloney. I take my sleep seriously because better sleep means

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here with Jade Warshaw. And we are answering your question. We have Alicia on the line, and she is in Buffalo, New York. Hi, welcome to the show. Hi, thanks for having me. So my question, so I'm 30. After taxes, I make $72,000. And I am just completely babysat number one, so I'm starting to pay off my debt. So I did my snowball a couple days ago.

And one of the collections on my debt has went to court recently and still being, like, gone through the process before they served me. And I'm just wondering if that's my highest collection, like it's like my last. one of my snowball. Should I be prioritized and move that up so I can clear that issue out of the way or just wait for it to roll through emotions and just see what court does? How much is it? $3,693. Oh. Do you have any money?

Like, do you have $1,000 saved? That's in my baby fund, yeah. Yeah, and your baby step one. Okay. Okay. Because I'm wondering, since it's all the way in collections and they're, you know, at the point of suing you, if you can settle with them, but you would need some money to put up front to say, hey, I have this amount.

I'm wondering how quick. Go ahead. I make so Like my minimum Monthly that like do Like on my My debts now I make around 1,800 a month on those

And then my monthly bill that I Pay is 2,500 So collectively like I'm I have to pay out 5300 But I make about 6,000 a month Okay So like I can put Save up that X 700 and like move that to the very top

but I'm like I need a lease. I feel like I need like 50% to offer them. And I just don't know if I should just, like I could pay off eight accounts within that $2100 of my between pay laders and my small collections and my small credit cards that I just closed. Yeah. But I'm like, like, it's like, I'm in between a rock and a hot place. So you can't cover the minimum.

You wouldn't have the money to cover the minimum. while you stack up, because I don't think you need to save 50%. I think if you get to a quarter of this, they might take it. Like 25 cents on the dollar. So that would be, that calculation would be... If it's $3,000, let's look for $7 to $900. Yeah. So that's about, that's like six weeks of is not paying my...

It's just six weeks of not doing a snowball. Well, you're doing... It's not that you're not doing... It's not that you're not doing the snowball because you can pay the minimum. So you can pay the minimums on everything. We're just expediting this because they're taking you. And so let's make sure if it hasn't happened yet, let's try to go to the table one more time and say before this makes it to court, can we just settle? This is all the money I have.

And consider it you just tying up a loose end. Yeah, you're still doing because you're still paying off debts. You're going to the right direction. Yeah, you're just kind of reordering it. because of your situation. We would say the same is true if you had an IRS debt. We'd say move that to the front.

Even if you're like, oh, my gosh, but by the time I pay off half of that, I could have four other debts paid off, right? It's just you're reordering it because of what is happening and because it's stuck in collections. But you sound motivated. Yes.

I do. I live in my boyfriend, and he's very fortunate that he makes very good money for what he does, and he pays utilities and rent, like he pays the majority of the mortgage, and he pays utilities and food costs. So I looked at my,

I pulled up credit reports a few weeks ago, and it made me sick. Like, I don't understand how I just turned 30 this month. I'm like, I don't understand how I'm 30 with three degrees. And consumer debt with my car, I owe $41,000. Yeah. Oh, wow. Tell us about your car.

It's an 18 Subaru and Casa. a few years ago my old car which was almost paid off got totaled and I was not in a credit situation to get a good interest like I had on my previous car so my car currently is sitting at 18% interest and yeah it's about 500 bucks a month and like once I know like I and what do you owe on it? 41,000 I know no 41 is collective all concealed. Oh, I'm sorry. What's the car? I owe 17. Oh, okay. Okay, that's better.

Good Lord. I was about to say, Alicia, put that car up for sale. What's it worth? What is it worth? I'm just curious. Uh, about nine. Nine? Private sale?

And, yeah, private sale. Kelly Blue's both $9,000. Okay. And with my snowball, with my, what I make right now, and that's like, I have my main job. I do, I'm a bookkeeper for a law firm. So when I, if I do have to go to court for this case, you know what you're doing?

My lawyer is already like, we'll cover you. you don't worry about it. And then I do insaccount on the side to, and like, you know what, I'm completely able to do everything I need to do, pay them a month and get out of this debt in 15 months. Good. Yes, girl. So. We love it.

That's what we love to hear. Yes. Well, it's just the idea of you are finally sick and tired of it. And when she opened up that credit report, she's like, oh, my gosh, what am I doing? And so she's rewiring everything that she had been. doing and making great progress. So well done. All right, let's go to Sarah in Denver, Colorado. Hi, Sarah. Welcome to the show. Hi, thank you for having me. Yes. How can we help today? You guys could maybe settle a debate between me and my mom. I guess for a little bit of background,

I'm 19 and I'm a sophomore in college. I'm currently taking my prerequisites and next fall I'll be attending nursing school. But for my freshman year of college, I'm not. And I'm a sophomore year of college. I wanted to go to an out-of-state university, and that was before I realized really how much I would be paying in student loan debt. Yeah, so I ended up transferring back to a local college where I'm paying around $6,000 a year, but I still ended up, ended up racking up around $26,658 in student loan debt. Okay. And $22,000 of that is a parent-plus loan, and then the remaining $4,000 is my personal loan. Okay.

So I guess my question would be, I feel like I should maybe defer from nursing school for a year and work full time to pay off that debt. But my mom thinks that by the time I graduate nursing school, I should be making enough to just pay it off fully. The $4,000 or the $22,000? Is it subsidized or is it unsubsidized? It's unsubsidized. Ew, okay. Are you able to cash flow college? No, not necessarily.

No, unless I, you know, take the time off. Will you be taking more loans out then to go to nursing school? Yeah. Okay. So, yeah, I would say pause. And I may tell you right now, depending on, and I'd want you to see how long you're in nursing school. and is it $6,000 a year as well? Yeah, it should be.

Okay. I would make it a priority to get through that because I am with your mom. If you get that degree, you're going to make great money, Sarah. And nursing is one of the best fields to work in. So it's fantastic. But I think I would maybe pause and maybe not as much to pay off this debt, but to make $6,000 to put away enough to get through nursing school, debt-free, and then when you're out, maybe attacking that.

I'm just thinking age stage of life because to get a good career going under your belt I think is a great step but I don't want you going deeper in debt I would not encourage you at all to go to school if you don't have the money for it so you need the money going forward and if you can cash flow your way through school

once you're out of school then look backwards and say hey let's knock out this debt if you're behind on your bills doing more of the same isn't going to fix it you need a different plan and that's why I tell people about guardian litigation group

If you've missed payments, if collectors are calling non-stop, or if you're getting letters about legal action, that's your signal. And it's where a lot of people wait too long, because the longer you wait, the fewer options you usually have. And once it turns into a lawsuit, things can get more expensive and more complicated fast. Guardian litigation is a law firm, not a call center. From day one, you are assigned an attorney who represents you. So if a creditor moves forward, you're not caught off guard and you're not hit with surprised legal fees. Guardian litigation only gets paid when the debt is negotiated and the client accepts the settlement offer. This is about stepping in early while you still have leverage.

Don't ignore the problem. Take control of it. Go to Guardianlit.com slash Ramsey right now. That's GuardianL-I-T-com slash Ramsey. Attorney advertising. Results may vary and no specific outcomes guaranteed. We wish we could get to every question, every call on the show, but we cannot. But if you have a money question, make sure to head over to our website and use Ask Ramsey.

So Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool, and it's built all on Ramsey principles. So when they built this tool here at Ramsey Solutions, everything that was fed into this specific AI was all Ramsey. It's calls from the show. It's articles on our website. So much content was put in there. So really any question you ask, you're going to get. get exactly what we would say here on the show. So make sure to check it out. You can ask your question today at ramsysolutions.com or click the link in the description if you are listening on podcast or

YouTube. All right, let's go to Dallas, Texas. Dallas, Texas. We have Patrick on the line. Welcome. Hey, everybody. Thanks for having me on. So my question is this. I am a small reason company here in Dallas, and I have such an up and down income. one month I may bring in $8,000 to $12,000 and then not bring in anything for the next month or two. So my question is, how do I inform the babysat the babysat with having such an up and down income? I can't count on anything month to month to month. What causes it to fluctuate in such a high regard? Well, our main, our main busiest times for roofing are in the spring and in the fall.

And so it's just a matter of... Just winter months? Yeah, yeah, just getting jobs in. Mm-hmm. Okay, so... And like I said, I'm one of the smaller guys here in the area, not, you know, great big giant. So I don't have a huge sales force out there generating leads for me either. So when you, if you're between 8 to 12, what I would start with is what do I need? Like, what does it take my budget to operate? So let's pretend it's $4,000 or six, let's say $6,000. What I'd be doing is on the months that I make more than $6,000, I'd be putting a little extra side in like a peaks and valleys account so that if I have a month where I don't make any, I can or I make less, I can pull from that and kind of keep myself floated. But I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm going to, I'm, I'm, I can pull from that. I

I'm caveatting that by saying, if you know that there is a time of year that we just don't do business, I'd really be interested in finding what I can do to supplement those months. Because it never feels good to have a month where you make zero. And I would love for that to be your goal. Like even if I have this Peaks and Valley's account, even if I haven't set it for two months, what else could I be doing? What else can I do? Right. Well, the ultimate goal is to get, you know, an emergency fund of, you know, roughly 36 to 40,000, just sitting there to bide me over in the slow times. But like that, it's just getting enough jobs in.

The thing is, though, I wouldn't want you to feel that way because this is not an emergency. This is something that you foresee coming. It's a lifestyle. Yes. You know what's happening. It's just part of your month to month. And we can plan for that. But if you're thinking about I need 48, you know, or however much money.

there for three to you know three months of zero dollars that's the part where Rachel and I are saying that we can fix that with work we don't need to have three months of zero income coming in fair enough right yes so yeah having that that fund over there is going to be very very helpful and then beyond that just saying okay you know if I need six thousand dollars to operate and I'm making eight let's put some money in that peaks and valleys funds let's put some towards a true emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. Because do you have any consumer debt, Patrick?

Yes, I'm about $30,000 in credit card debt. And unfortunately, that's kind of what I'm using to tide me over in these slower times. Oh, gotcha. Okay. So, yeah, so more than ever, and it may be you overcommitting yourself with work and extra work just to get your head above water so that you can not only pay your bills for the winter months when you know that that's coming, but also to start working your way out of this debt.

So for you on the slow months, because on the good months, if you're making 10 grand, yeah, you're able to shuffle that around and use that. But when you're not making anything, something has to be coming in so that you don't go deeper in this credit card debt. So that'd be my first goal. Get your head above water.

And it's probably going to mean working a second job on those slow months. Yeah. All right, let's go to Hannah in Atlanta, Georgia. Hi, Hannah. Welcome to the show. Hi, we're doing great. How can we help? My husband and I just started taking FPU at our church, and we're currently in Baby Step 2.

And we are debating on taking our money out of our CD that we have and paying off all of our debt. I think we should, and my husband doesn't. He thinks if we do that, it will just be saving us and we won't learn any lessons, almost like he wants us to suffer a little bit. So I just want to hear opinion. How much is in the CD? A little over $52,000. And that's more than enough to cover all of your debt? It would pay all of it minus around $2,000.

And is he saying he wants you guys to feel the pain of paying off the debt? Is that what I'm hearing? Yes, because we have been in debt before, and we've always kind of finangled our way out of it, easily. And so he thinks if we do it again, we won't learn any life lessons and our habits won't change, which I kind of agree with. But he's blessing his butt at work to pay for all of our debt. And I don't know. I just kind of need a second opinion. What's the nature of you guys' as bad spending habits? Is it credit cards? Is it vacations? Like, what's the one or two things that

you're like, man, this is, it gets us every time? What is it? Our credit cards. And is it just lifestyle going out to eat, shopping, stuff for the kids? Is it just life? Yeah, mainly life. Our kids, they're in sports, and it's hard to say no to them. We don't eat out often. Well, did you cut up the credit cards? And our days were frugal.

We did. We cut every single one of them up. Good. Well, honestly, there will probably be some pain and just that having to say no. You know what I mean? And just having to say no to your having to work these new habits. So I would say I understand his logic. And we always do caution people to say, if you had a lump sum from like a lawsuit come in or, you know, an inheritance and people are going to throw this amount of money and be debt free, we say to do it. So we never tell you not to. But we do caution people. Okay, but this has not changed your behavior. So I really appreciate his perspective. Like he's done. And he's like, I want to change.

I want to change so bad. I want us to hate our lives for a season so we never go back. I appreciate that. But also to get you guys to a place, the fastest place to start building wealth. And that is to use this money. Stop making payments. Stop paying interest. Pay it off.

Get it paid off. And then maybe there's still some sacrifice, Hannah, to get this three to six months of expenses, say. Baby Step three. And you guys and him work his butt off towards that. Hannah, how many months have you guys have? that you set the budget and you stick to what's on the budget? We just started to try to budget for real this time. We've tried in the past and failed.

But he's at the point where we're sitting in church and we're watching these videos about the baby steps and he's tearing up. So no months? No months, but I'm trying. Yes. Oh, yeah, yeah. No, we won't fault you for that. Yeah. It helps me understand what he's feeling, which is he's basically saying we haven't proven any of our behavior even with one month's budget. And I think that he's afraid to Rachel's point, what if we do this and we're right back where we started and now we're there without any savings? Which is fair. It's fair. But what I would tell him, though, Jade, is I think you guys living on a pretty strict budget, Hannah, because you're going to need to do this baby step three soon if you pay most of this debt off.

and you'll still be in gazelle mode, right? That intensity that we talk about in Baby Step 2, there's still that in Baby Step 3. So I would use the sacrifice, the, I hate our life, we never want to come back here again, feeling for Baby Step 3 through 6, right? Use it for that baby step. And then you guys on a budget is going to be a big life change in a good way.

So he's going to feel some struggle there. He's going to feel some struggle with you guys putting up boundaries with the kids. And you guys putting up your own boundaries with your own spending, having to say no. Like all of that is part of the sacrifice. But him having to work all these extra hours to pay off debt that could be paid off today, I would say let's shift that to the emergency funds. Because you guys will have some months of sacrifice to get that emergency fund built. So put your efforts there and be debt-free tonight if you can.

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may not be available in all states. All righty. Today's question comes from Felix in South Carolina. He says, why do you recommend working with a financial advisor to invest, which incurs a fee over learning to invest on my own, which avoids the fee? I actually really love this question, and I think it just speaks to the individual. There's plenty of you out there who the only vehicle that you're using to invest in is through your 401k at work, and there's just a few options to choose for.

And if you listen to us and you go, okay, I know there's the four types of funds that they suggest growth, growth, and income, aggressive growth in international. I was able to identify one of each. I selected one and the rates of return have been good. Cool. Set it and forget it. Like most of us don't need a financial investor. If all you're doing is investing through your 401K, which is fabulous. But then for folks who are like, oh gosh, I'm venturing out, I have a little bit more money to spend.

I am now going into a Roth IRA and there's so much to choose from and I'm feeling a little intimidated. This is my first go round and you do want somebody who's in your corner, then yes, a smart vester pro is for you. Maybe you're a person who you're like, hey, I maxed out my 401k. I've done some Roth IRAs and I just don't know where to go next or I'm thinking about retiring early. What does that look like? Just kind of getting into some more advanced topics. It is helpful to have somebody to help you navigate. that. And if you feel like you've got it and you're looking at things and they feel like they're going

well, then it's not for you today. But if you need the heart of a teacher and you want somebody to kind of help you along, then we've also got you covered there. So Felix, if you feel like you can select those four funds, if you're looking at them and they're averaging what we're saying on here, or you're checking the S&P 500 and you're seeing, okay, I'm at least meeting that index or doing a little better. That's fabulous. Keep doing what you're doing. Yep. And I would say, too, a great financial planner, you guys, looks at more than just your investments. They're looking at your entire financial picture down to taxes, estate planning, even a way, you know, through your giving, you know, certain funds that you can do on interest that's made, so you don't pay taxes there. I mean, like, they really can look at your whole picture and be the most efficient with your money.

That's why I love ours that, you know, we have ours that we meet with every January. And he still teaches me new things, things that change in the market. you know whether there's regulatory or uh regulatory that's a good word yeah just made that one up regulatory is yes that uh official things yes that you know the change in the in the market and the laws and the amounts and like and all of it it is it's an ever-changing industry and so having someone that this is their life and that a lot of them can find funds that beat the s mp 500 you know some good mutual funds it's just having someone in your corner so i'm with jade if you're beyond just your 401k at work.

Find someone that's going to look at your whole picture because they are so, so helpful. What am I trying to say? Regulations, I think. With regulations change? When regulations change? Tax regulations? I don't know, regulatory.

Put it in the dictionary. I was put my face next to it. My gosh, I was with some of our content team today. And one of them was laughing because she couldn't spell this word right. And she's like, the robots are going to get me first. And I told her, I was like, I feel that way too sometimes. They're going to see me and be like, take her out. She's done.

All right, let's go to Timothy in Idaho. Hi, Timothy. Welcome to the show. Hey, you guys. How are you guys? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help? Hey, I could use your wisdom in how to start saving up for a care ticket for our son,

and in particular with how we can do that in between baby steps four, five, and six. my wife and I make a baseline of 110,000, and our oldest son has some mental disabilities. He's seven years old right now, and he is most likely when he turns 18 or 21 going to need a full-time caretaker. He will not be able to be on his own. What we're trying to figure out, and we talk with the smart best service, pro. We're trying to set aside some money that will grow over time so that we can afford paying somebody to help our son as he becomes an adult because our heart is that our son is able to have a little bit of his own independence and be his own person as best as he can. However, it's

feels kind of impossible with the numbers that the SmartVester Pro gave us. He was saying that in order to reach critical mass, we would have to be setting aside $12,000 to $20,000 per year until he turns 21 in order for a caretaker to be able to make this happen. What does, can you tell us the numbers of what it would cost to have somebody doing that type of care once he turns 18? Like what's it a month? What's it a year? Right now, like 80 to 100,000. Okay. Yeah. And I think the goal probably what the smart vester is thinking is this is probably going to be a lifelong fund for him. And so you're wanting to use the growth off of the principle. It's almost like

a retirement, right? The way you look at retirement, I'm going to just live off of the growth and not touch the principal so that it stays there forever. And I can keep this going, right? So, So, yeah, the numbers he ran, a thousand bucks a month, yeah, probably is accurate. I don't know. But I see how that feels like a massive uphill battle. So what, and you may not have to do $1,000 a month right now. You know, maybe it looks like in three years where you guys are, you're able to put an extra $1,500 and kind of catch up to that full amount that you're shooting for for when he's 21.

But also, I wonder, too, Timothy, if you're not quite there yet, if it's maybe a goal when he's 25. Because I think eventually having that fund is going to be really, really important. But I hear you where it feels like such a long timeline with a lot of money in order to get that. Well, I'm also wondering, and I'm not an expert in special needs care, let me start by saying that. But when he turns 18, if not 21, won't he? won't he be eligible for some form of SSI,

like some sort of supplemental money coming in every month from the government? He probably will. The reason why we are hesitating with that is we don't know what that would hold as far as what the government is able to provide. They can change their rules whenever they want. So what we are trying to do is just kind of use that as, icing on the cake and become fully self-sufficient. I would look into that a little further because long-term planning, you are going to want this through a special needs trust so that what you have, what you do have set aside for him

doesn't have the ability to be revoked because it's under his name and it's not protected in that way. Do you see what I'm saying? So I would sit down with an attorney that can help you specifically with that and do the special needs trust so that you're deciding once he's 18, how is this money protected so that it doesn't take away from his ability to receive SSI in other ways? Does that make sense? Especially if you're thinking, hey, he's going to be out there on his own. The other idea that I had for you is, obviously, you guys are taking care of him now. Is there a way that you can prolong that longer so that you can

continue to set aside money? And do you see what I'm saying? Can you kind of split the difference on that and say, maybe he'll live with us until he's 25 so that we can keep some of that money and keep stacking up this trust and these funds for him? Yeah, we can definitely do that. The challenge is that it is kind of a lot of work. So I just want to be careful of my wife and my wife. and maybe you hire some supplemental care, but you're still allowing for the margin for you to continue to set aside. Because you're right, you do have to look long term for that. And so I think as you get closer and if you sit down with somebody to help you plan it,

they'll help you decide exactly what you need to do and how to play this out. Here's something that keeps a lot of parents up at night. Kids are growing up with more access to information than ever before in history. But most of the content is calculated to keep them distracted, make them mad, and keep them scrolling, not help them think for themselves. World Watch exists to be the antidote to the algorithms. World Watch is a video news service built specifically for preteens and teens. They're daily 10-minute videos that explain what's happening in the world through a factual Christian worldview. No outrage, no noise, just clear reporting you can watch together and that your kids can

actually understand so they can come to the dinner table engaged and curious instead of worked up or zoned out. And I love that World Watch doesn't talk at kids. gives family something to talk about. Because when my kids are older, I want them to be able to think for themselves and separate news from noise. And right now, you can try WorldWatch free for 30 days. Click the link in the description or go to Worldwatch.com news slash Ramsey and use promo code Ramsey to get started. The Ramsey offer includes your first full month free on top of the standard seven-day trial. That's worldwatch.com news slash Ramsey. Up next, we have Angela in Toronto. Hi, Angela. Welcome.

to the show. Hi, thanks for having me on. I'm on Baby Step 4 and I'm hoping to get some advice as to whether I should go put myself on a mortgage with my boyfriend of five years. Okay, so you guys are looking to buy a house. He's actually already purchased one and it's more of a retirement property. He retires next year, but I still have five years to retire. Okay. And you want to put your name on the mortgage with him? I was thinking about it. And I'm not so sure, just given our spending habits and situational factors. What would be the purpose of putting you on the mortgage? What's there to gain for you? I would eventually be moving in there when I retire,

but that wouldn't be for a few years. Right, but where you live right now. So let's just pretend what if you're like, yeah, I'm going to move in there. What if you just paid your portion of rent? Why would you feel like you have to be on the mortgage? Did you put money down with him? I did not. I have a feeling that he doesn't qualify for the mortgage without me.

I thought you said he already got it. He's saying he's selling his house and he's bought this property and it's a mortgage of an additional $550,000. and he's given the bank my numbers as well. Oh, so wait a second. Isn't it weird that he's buying a property without you? Like he's picking it, he's choosing it, it's his retirement, but now you have to, he's putting your numbers with it. Are you getting a say in this thing?

Yeah, and so that's part of the reason I have called because my spidey senses are saying something is off here. Me too. Good. We've been together five years, and we did have goals of retiring and purchasing a property. And he's retiring next year, so he's decided that he found the perfect property, and we had looked at some. And it was all, you know, he did this all so fast, and all of a sudden there's... Yeah, there's a lot wrong with the same.

situation, Angela. One is you never buy a home with someone you're not married to. You have no legal protection. Your name is going to be on this loan with someone that you, again, legally are not married to. It ends up being a mess, okay? If something were to happen. Yeah, what if he doesn't pay? It's a mess. Okay. So do not buy a home with someone you're not married to. That's to you and to every person listening right now. Do not buy a home with someone you are not married to. Number two, Angela, he can't afford this home. A bank will not give him this loan without you, which means the bank who gives loans for a living, this is what they do. They want everybody in debt because they make so much money. They want to give debt out. Even the bank is saying, oh, if the debt maker is saying,

I don't want to give this debt, we need someone else. That means they don't trust that he's going to pay it, that he has the ability to pay it, okay? And think about that. Just for a split second, Angela, if you go on this mortgage with him and month one he doesn't pay and month two he doesn't pay and month three he doesn't pay you're on the hook for that right right and i already have my own home yeah you don't exactly you do not need a second home if he would like to go retire he needs to buy a home that he can afford he can afford the payment and so he needs to do that in you know in an individual sense without you. And then however your living arrangements are, they are what they are. But there is something about tying your financial life to someone that is so scary. And I mean, how old are you?

I'm 54. I've worked really hard my whole life. So Angela, you are, you're toward the end. You're about to finish. You can see the finish line. And what this is going to do is this going to take you off course and you're going to be stuck in the woods trying to find your way out when you were on the path. You know what I mean? You saw the finish line and you deviated from it. Don't do it. This is a big, half a million dollar deal. It's a big deal. And Angela, you're 54 years old. You know it. Trust your guts. You know when something doesn't feel right. And this is it. You're like, man, you're calling us, which is a really good indicator that this doesn't sit right with you. And it doesn't sit right with me either. I agree with Rachel 100%. I would tell him, I'd sit down on you guys's

next date and I'd say, you know what, I've been thinking this over and I want you to have the retirement home that you want, but you want to know what? It's something you've worked for. We're not married and I think you should do it, but I'm not going to put my name on it and we can, you know, in the next few years if we start to think about maybe me moving in with you, I would just like to pay a rent or something like that. We'll figure that out, but my name doesn't need to be on the deed. Yeah, how much does he see how that goes. Yes, that's a great point. See what his reaction is. Do you know what he has in retirement? He has a government pension, but he doesn't have any other savings.

Okay. So I know he would bring home around $4,500 a month. Okay. But with, you know, to take on a $575,000 mortgage, $600,000. No, he can't afford it. With all the additional things he wants to do, I just, yeah. Yeah, he didn't have the money for it. And I think it might be me being.

Exactly. How much do you have in retirement? I also have a government pension and I've saved about $200,000. And so when I retire at 59, I will be bringing home $62,000 from my pension a year. Good for you. Okay. And then I have, I have the equity in my. home and I have a couple hundred thousand dollars in savings and investment. Yeah, because

those will be, that'll probably all be close to around 400,000 by the time it's all said and done. Yeah, and I just, I know that this is a life-changing decision and I've worked so hard. I just thought, am I crazy? Because when I speak to him, he makes it sound like it's going to be so easy and wonderful and I mean, I wouldn't be able to into his credit. I don't want to, yeah, I don't want to believe that he's being malicious. I don't want to put anything like that. I just don't think he's being smart about it. It's just not smart. It's just not wise for either end, right? Like he can't afford it himself. You don't need to be dragged into it. And so I don't think he's that he's a bad guy. I just don't think he's great with money. Yeah. It's, it's going to put a stressor on your

relationship. If you do this, it's just going to. And there's no point of doing it. I go back to the original question I ask, which is what's the benefit? There isn't one. The only benefit is for him getting his loan approved, but that's not what you're his girlfriend for, right? That's not the reason that you're in a relationship to help you get your loans approved. Yeah. You know, and it just boils down to that. I appreciate it and I respect the show so much that I will take this advice. Oh, so glad, Angela. And honestly, I think you'll be better for it. And the beautiful thing is, y'all may look up in three to four years and get married and say, hey, let's go retire somewhere together and live your lives together, right? I mean, that would be the hope. But I think that is what's so hard is it's become so normalized to combine things even when you're not married and to the point that you've worked your whole life.

And you're later on, you know, down the road in a relationship. And so the same is true when you're 20 or when you're 60. but the same mess can occur on a legal sense that when you own property together, it can get so tangled. And any co-signing, this is even with cards. We get this call all the time that while I co-signed for my ex-girlfriend and now she's dating some other guy in another state and won't pay the cars and all I'm stuck. I mean, it's just, it can stay with you. And it always ends up more harm than good.

Yeah, and I agree. This guy, he's probably not a bad guy. It's just sometimes when you want what you want and you get a little. desperate. You start to take desperate measures. And in this case, you unfortunately start taking advantage of a relationship in order to get it. Yes. And I think that's the tough part is like, don't do it. It's not that serious. Nope, not at all. But trust your gut too, Angela. I think that that's another good lesson for everyone, right? If you're in the financial decision making process and you're like, this just doesn't sit right. That is, that lack of peace. Listen to that because we are trying to

solve for peace, as Dr. John Deloney says. Let me tell you what I get asked all the time. When should I get term life insurance? How much do I need? Is it affordable? Those are the right questions to be asking. So let's take a quick review. The fact is term life isn't a baby step. So if anyone is dependent on your income, you need to have 10 to 12 times your income in life insurance. Now, and most people are surprised by how affordable term life really is. Even if you're not in perfect health. Look, I understand the hesitation. most insurance companies make it more of a hassle than it needs to be. Not at Zander Insurance. They're not an insurance company. They're a broker that works for you. That means they'll shop and compare the top-term life companies to find the most competitive options on the coverage for your family.

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All right, we got Andrew on the line in Fort Myers. Hi, Andrew. Welcome to the show. Hi, thank you so much. Absolutely. I really appreciate everything that you do for everyone. Oh, thank you. I appreciate that.

Yeah. My question is, I'm not exactly sure how to build a life with my woman, my girlfriend, I guess. We have an eight-year-old. Oh, okay. For them together for over 10 years. Oh, okay. Yeah. And so the hurdle that keeps coming up is that she was a widow.

in her 20s. And her son, she had a son, and he's 21 now. But she had Survivor's benefits when he was a teenager, or growing up as he was a kid and through his teenage years. And then now she doesn't, so she would receive her deceased husband's social security. Right. And she becomes of age. And I guess that's a pretty large number because he made, you know,

a sizable, like a lot of money every year. So I don't understand how to plan all of this. She doesn't want to get married until she's 60 years old because she doesn't want to risk that benefit going away. What? She's choosing some social security over. She's locked in. I mean, how much could it possibly be? Has she told you the amount?

$3,600 to $4,000 a month. Stop it. Yeah, I mean. Listen, if she said $400,000 a month, I'd be like, Andrew, you may not be worth that. I don't know. But 4,000? Does she work?

I get it. Does she work? She does work now. Yes, she works. And what does she earn? She earns like $43,000 a year after taxes. What do you earn? I earn $150,000 after taxes.

So wait a second. We can go and Andrew can put a ring on it and you guys combined can be making $193,000. a year. And she's foregoing that life for survivors benefits that we don't really know, but maybe they're around $35,000 to $4,000. Or y'all combine finances and she's getting both. And she's like, I just don't want to get married because I get to live off this $150 now. So what's the point? Yeah, I don't know if it's some kind of trauma from when she was a single widow mom. And she got the, she didn't know about Survivors' benefits until her, a relative,

who was a police officer, mentioned, hey, you can receive survivors benefits. 28 years old. You got a baby. So she looked into it and she got a check every single month up until he was 16 years old. I think you're right. In that time, she, you know, she got it in her in her mind that I'm not going to do this until I'm this age. And then we got together. I mean, we're, but I'm having really hard time planning. No, you can't plan that. She has some debt. I want, we want to buy property. But how am I going to? I don't think you can, Andrew. This is a, I think you're exactly right. I think this is tied to something traumatic.

I mean, obviously she was widowed so young. And then she was left in a really tough situation with this child. And who knows, there might even be something that goes further back. I don't know how she grew up, how money was. But there's clearly, because this doesn't make sense. It's safety for her. And it feels like I'm going to be okay, regardless of what happens for this $4,000 a month. I also feel like there's, you know, this sense of impermanence, you know, that that happened

and now, like, planning future things. Like she gets everything about planning, saving, you know. It's just so impermanent, I guess. She probably, and you've been like this for five years, right? Well, we've been together 10 years. 10 years. Okay. So why now?

I'm just curious what now is happening inside of you? That's like, golly. this is getting hard. Is it because you're getting your finances in order and you're realizing, gosh, I have a life with this woman, but we, it's so hard to do anything. I have a hard time communicating with her now because of how it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you've been in a cycle and in a pattern for 10 years. So breaking that, marriage or not in a relationship is tough. So, I mean, I would, see if she should be open to sitting down with someone and you both talk through this, because if you're not a great communicator in a sense of like you,

you're not able to find the words that you're wanting to say and say, you know, to have a third party kind of walk through some of this. And honestly, a professional will probably be able to pinpoint a couple of things. Because my goal would be for her to heal, right, on an emotional standpoint so that something like this isn't seen as a barrier. Yeah.

But you're able to move forward with your life. I want that for her. It's almost like she's still holding on to this part. and yeah I would she which if you suggested that if you said you want to know I I just think that there's some healing still to be done and I love you and I want this for you and I feel like it's starting to hold us back a little bit how would she react to that oh I think that should be open to it I mean she's been doing therapy she's on EMDR we're actually in a couple's we're in a couple's therapy right now very good you know just to strengthen our relationship but it's hard to bring it up

and you know I'm the numbers guy she's a little more free-spirited so when I start coming at her with you know like I don't even see her bank account I don't even see her statements I don't ask I don't know exactly where money goes but you know it seems to

not last very long but I don't I don't know exactly where it goes so I can't say on her end but it's hard to talk about yeah and then I'm walking around you know we're posing as a married couple you know I call her my wife But technically, you know, like as far as, you know, under God, we're together.

But I feel like I'm not walking under his umbrella because we're not married, you know? Like we're, you know, and then we're not going to get married for another like 15 years on my end. You know, she's 48. So I guess it'd be 12 years. But that's a lot of time to not plan together. Andrew, have you guys brought up money, the subject of money with your therapist? No. Okay.

Not. The last conversation about money was there was financial people with her school system. So she invited me into that conversation for us to like plan together. And I just got real ramsie on them and they didn't like it. Okay. So she's probably like, Andrew, falling this crazy program. No, well, here's the thing, Andrew, and I know you know this, but just to reiterate, that money represents more in all of this than just the money, right?

So when we talk about people combining finances, yes, is there a tactical when you're married? Is there a tactical benefit to it? Absolutely. You're functioning out of one account. But it's all about what money represents. And there's a level of unity there that is not or that is not there because she's holding out for this thing over here that's money related. And over here, you know, she's not letting you in.

You don't know how to communicate well with it. And so there's almost this value system that's been broken. down in your relationship. And my prayer would be that you guys, you know, once maybe she, she sees it and she's like, oh my gosh, I want all of me with this guy, because we have a kid together, right, at this point. And we want to start building this life. It's not the fact that like, oh, gosh, you can't combine money and you can't buy property. Like, all that is very true. But it's, it's underneath what it's representing. She's holding a part of her away from you. So it's almost like you fully don't get all of her. And so that's what I would work.

work for, we work with the therapist with. Because this is a tough subject for people. And so if you have that third party in the room, I would use that to my benefit for sure, because you guys have created a life together. So she's almost living in this illusion too. I mean, it's happening. Yeah. It's happening.

Their whole life is having to generate around her pain and her trauma. Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to Ramsey Solutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramsysolutions.com. Rachel, you know what time it is. Time to talk about taxes.

Matter of fact, did you file your extension on your 25, 2025 taxes? If you did, then you know that the October 15th deadline is coming around the corner. And the good news is you do have a couple of options in order to get it handled. First off, if your taxes are pretty straightforward, then Ramsey Smart Tax makes filing affordable and simple, right? Plus, there's built-in support if you get stuck and you need a little bit of help. But if you, if you're, your taxes are a little bit more complex, maybe it's a little more overwhelming or complicated, then you'll need a tax pro to help you make a plan because nobody wants to face the IRS without backup. So which should you choose? You can take our tax quiz and find out really quickly.

Then you can handle your tax extension like a pro and beat the deadline. So take the tax quiz today at ramsysolutions.com slash tax quiz. All right, let's go to Lisa in Houston, Texas. Hi, Lisa. said welcome to the show hi how are you doing can you hear me okay yes we can hear you yes thanks for calling in good very good you're welcome i am in trouble here i basically am a widow a 58 year old widow and i basically was drowning in debt once my husband passed and i realized i wasn't getting any any income from his who was a doctor um he was a professor at ucla and taught for over 55 years at that college. Oh, wow.

So, medical systems. Anyways, long story short, I'm basically calling in to find out how to get out of a debt resolution company's contract that I went online in a desperation to sign to help me try to stop all of these creditors from coming after us because my husband and I lived off credit cards, credit cards because he never carried cash on him. And so we lived off credit cards. And a lot of those credit cards, you know, had my name on them because I was his wife. And anyhow, bottom line is I'm looking through everything in what I had previously spoke

to your associate with before I got on the air with you guys was that I had remembered signing my, you know, typing in my name on the computer to sign contracts that I saw that was like seven pages, okay, typed in contracts on my phone that was electronically sent to me. And then I made a phone call yesterday and to this company and asked them to send me a copy of my contract that I signed. And it's a 35-page contract. Now, it went from, like not even 10 pages to 35 pages. Okay. And I'm just, I'm concerned because I'm reading, I printed it out while I was waiting for you to speak to you.

I put it out on my computer on my printer and I'm looking at everything and I'm seeing my name typed into these pages of things that I don't even remember reading. Did you already sign it or you just received? Have you already signed it? Well, it's got my name typed. It's just, it's no signature. It's just, the typed in name. I understand, but have you electronically signed it yet? Have you okayed it and said yes? Well, I, yeah, I mean, it was back in, I first signed all these documents with this company in March 15th of 2025. Uh-huh. Okay. And March, but you're saying the contract you signed was 10 pages. Yeah, that's what I remember reading, because I would have never, like, been able to read 35 pages. But did something change beyond the, the size of, you know,

the contract, did something with this, is it a consolidation company? Yeah, it was a company that was going to help me repay my debt by me paying them a certain amount of money and they were opening an account for me. Yes. And then paying out of an account that I held. That's right. These certain creditors and they were going to try and try and get these debts reduced. And did they?

Because, well, not dramatically, but they got some reduction. but then I understand that they're charging me a 25% sheet. Yes, ma'am. So let's try to solve it. Let's try to solve it because you're exactly right what these companies do. They'll take your payment and they'll set up an account and they're going to pull that money. And in the meantime, they're going to take that time to settle with the other creditors that you owe. Those are all things that we would tell you you can do on your own and we think you should do it on your own.

So if I were in your shoes, Lisa, I would contact them. and I would say, I want to get out of this contract. And there may be some fees associated. There may be some what we would call stupid tax, which is just money that you end up paying for realizing there was a better route. And there may be some of that attached to it. But what I'm hearing is that you signed up for a service. You're not getting exactly what you wanted from the service.

And it's creating stress and confusion because the contract is this. And then it changed. And my name is typed on there electronically. It's not serving you well. so let's go ahead and wash our hands of it and let Rachel and I help you. So how much debt is there still outstanding that has your name on it? Well, that's the curious thing is that I have a dashboard on my cell phone that I can access their own app for this company.

Okay. And just three days ago when one of my kind, one of my, basically I have a caregiver during the day and one of my client's dad is retired now, and he used to be working for, an engineering company and he overheard me talking to a company that I hired this company that we're talking about on the phone and he said you know something you know what they're charging you to do this because I found out that he's the one that he was training a lot of people to do Dave Ramsey's program his financial program at the church he was with. But Lisa.

He said for seven, yeah. We're going to let it go though. We're going to get out of this. See how it's stressing you? Because I asked you, the question I asked you is how much money do you still owe? Oh, okay. I still owe $19,000. But according to their website, when I pulled it up yesterday, over $20,000 now.

So it's going up and set it down. Yeah, I would first and foremost, I hope there's no, I don't trust these companies. No. And I hope there's no weird fraud or something. happening that you signed a 10-page, well, you just signed a 10-page contract. Yeah. And unless there were addendums in there or something that was that you didn't open up fully. And once you got the full contract, it really originally still was 35 pages.

I'm just, I'm just praying that they're not pulling one over on you. You know what I mean? That they've changed the deal and used your name. Not only that. Not only that. But now the first page of this contract doesn't have, I even have, I haven't have the name of the contract that I signed. It has some other name. A different company name? Yes, sir. Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. Well, company, yeah, and sometimes companies buy other companies. And that may have happened. I feel like there's a lot going on here, but what I would say your homework is,

is let's call them today and say, you know what, I'd like to cancel. Tell me what I have to do to cancel. And they're probably going to say whatever, however much money you've paid into this account, there's probably going to be a fee associated and you're going to take that hit. And I wonder, I don't know that I'm right, but I wonder if the discrepancy that you're seeing is what they held in the account versus what was actually paid. Maybe you're seeing that they're still holding that money and it hasn't been paid yet. I don't know. Because some of these companies, Lisa, they will not pay the debt and they'll let it go into, they'll basically make it go into default for them to go. in and then negotiate for a lower rate, but it trashes your credit in the process. But that's how

a lot of them get a quote-unquote deal on the debt. But they just don't pay it. And then it goes into default. And then they go and try and negotiate with these debt companies. That's what these, a lot of these programs do. Where what Jay was saying, just so you know in the future, you could have done that. You could have just not paid, right? And you could have done the negotiations. but what we would tell you is that you are the secret of getting out of debt. It's you. And so by not depending on a company to do it for you because they are, they're going to charge you more, they're going to trash your credit in the process and all of it.

So do exactly what Jade said. You need to see how can you get out of this contract. You're probably going to pay something and it's not going to be a fun pill to swallow, but you've got to do it. And then you got $19,000, possibly $19,000 left of debt. And then that's when you do the debt snowball, Lisa. you're going to list your debts out smallest to largest, regardless of the interest rate,

pay minimum payments on everything, and pay off that smallest debt first. But you guys, listen, these companies go after vulnerable people in situations. And someone like Lisa who was widowed and is scared, and they feel like the way out. They are not, you guys. You are the way out of your debts.

Do not go and forfeit and give all your rights over to these companies. You've heard from me and the Ramsey personnel, for years, but nothing beats actually getting together in person. That's why we created the Live Like No One Else Cruise. For seven days, we're vacationing with you and 2,500 Ramsey people in the Western Caribbean with live shows, us, new content, us, and more. If you're on Baby Step 4 or Beyond, come spend the week with us next March. Choose your cabin at Ramsey Solutions.com slash events or click the link.

the show notes. This show has helped you think differently about money, do something that you never thought you could do with money because you've applied the common sense principles that we talk about on the show. We want to hear from you. So share thoughts in the comments. Share an episode of this show with a friend and, you know, get the word out because if it's helped you, I know it can help other people. All right. Let's talk to Grayson in Greenville, South Carolina. Hi, Grayson. Welcome to the show. Hey, it's so great to speak with you. Can you hear me okay? Yes, we can. Thanks for calling in. How can we help? Yes, ma'am. So I am 23 years old and married. I work part-time at a cell phone store, and I actually own an electronics reselling business that originally operated kind of as my part-time job. And it's grown a lot more since we first started. So my question is whether I should keep the current part-time job I have at the cellular store. and, you know, push hard to pay off the house first because we do have a mortgage,

or if we should just go all in full time with the business and leave the part-time job at the cellular store. Wow. So is your electronics resell? Are you making more there than you are at the cell phone store? Tremendously, yeah. I have the numbers if you want the numbers. Yes, I do. Yeah, so I bring in about $2,800 because I've just moved down to part-time, $2,800. at the cell phone store. And last month, we netted $20,000. Oh, my gosh. Dude, what are you waiting for? Yeah. Yeah. But truly, how long have you been making that kind of money on the resale business? So this month and the last month were the biggest months so far, definitely for profit. So it was 17,000 this month so far net. And then last month was 20. The previous month, I think, was like 12 or 13, but it's just grown

proportionally since I went part-time. So as I've been able to invest more time, it's increased. And is it just you or do you have anybody you're working with? So yeah, so my wife actually, she worked for the same company and she got laid off. So she's actually my kind of behind the scenes person, if you will. So she does, my company does pay her. So we are currently taking in some money from the business. But other than the salary for her, everything is getting invested right now back into the business and it's kind of just piling up right now, to be honest. I mean, are you keeping the cell phone job just for like, I don't know, do they pay your insurance? Is there some benefits attached to it that you're reluctant to let go of?

Or why are you keeping this? It feels like it's draining your time that you could be pouring into this business and growing it more. Yeah. So right now, I literally work like four or five hours a day and it really is for insurance. The self-pay cost is just ridiculous with the plan that we have provided through the company and the benefits are really good. So, you know, and it gives a little bit of cushion, a little bit of peace of mind. But right now, I think the reason why I haven't left is because I'm trying to stall for a little bit more time to put a little bit more money back into our emergency fund. Like we have, I think, I think we have like $10 or $11,000 in our emergency fund in

retirement. It's right around 28 or 30. But with what you're making from the electronics resell, wouldn't it be fair to say if you took that same amount of time and poured it into the business? don't you think it would pay for the insurance? Oh, I'm sure it would. I'm sure it would, to be honest with you, yeah. I mean, that's the type of opportunity cost math you need to do.

Because one thing about your time, what you got is what you got, right? And so you can't afford to be spending your time in a non-fruitful way. And I really do think if you went from $13,000 to $17,000 to $20,000, and all of this is you moving away from that job. You went from being full-time to being part-time. Now your wife is working on it. And all that is generating this income, I think it's fair to say, gosh, if I add back those four hours a week or those four hours a day, whatever it is that you're working, you're going to make back the $2,800 that they're paying you plus whatever the benefits are for your insurance. Yes, ma'am. And the thing about it, too, another thing slightly off of that is the mortgage itself. So we have $198,000 owed on that mortgage.

Okay. And, you know, again, we, we are about to hit a personal target where we can move a large sum of money from the business. Because it's not, you know, we have an EIM, but it's, we still haven't gone to escort that the whole other, you know, conversation and a kind of worms. But we are about to move a large sum of money over and pay ourselves, quote unquote, to, you know, put our emergency fund right where we need it to be. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, moving forward, do you think it would be a good idea to start, you know, trying to stockpile money, push, it towards the mortgage and kind of free up that money. Yeah, I would be, I think so.

I think whatever you can pay yourself to accomplish your goals and still grow the business is fair. I think that's what we would all do. That's the purpose of having your business, is it's generating income for you, and it's generating income that affords a lifestyle you want. And in this case, part of that lifestyle is paying off your debt. So I think that's totally fair. And, Grayson, I would say this too.

I think if something, crop hit the fan and you had to go back and make $2,800 a month somewhere else, you could. It's not like you're leaving a massive career that you're like, oh my gosh, if I step away from this, there's no way I can enter in back. I can't get back in. Right. You could find that job again if you needed two and 12 months, you know? Yeah. If worse came to worse, but I don't think it will. I think you guys are on an upward trajectory.

And if you're looking to source insurance, because you're right, when you're self-employed, it is expensive. My husband and I went through that. It's tough to go out in the market and just find a plan that supports your family. It is expensive. But check out Health Trust Financial. They'll help you source the right plans. And that's who we suggest here on the Ramsey Show. And if I were in your shoes, that's exactly who I would use.

And just know that, kind of start to view that as a benefit of doing business. Like, hey, I am my own boss. I get to make the decisions. I get to do my own benefits. I get to pay myself. I get to set my hours. Like start viewing it as a benefit instead of a negative. That's a sign that you're making money, and that's a really good thing.

Well done, Grayson. All right. It's good. Tanner in Nashville, Tennessee. Hi, Tanner. Welcome to the show. Hi, thanks for taking my call. So my wife and I are currently on Baby Step 2.

Our payoff date for all of our consumer debt is February of next year. And then we should have our emergency fund completed by May of that year as well. At the moment, we have a five-year arm. We know wasn't the best idea, the bank just in that direction. But it matures in January of 2030. Our current mortgage debt is $38,000 at 6.99% interest. And the monthly payment on that is 2631. We want to switch to a 15-year fixed rate.

after the arm matures in 2030, and we would like to go into the new mortgage with as little left on the house as possible. What we were thinking about is instead of putting 15% on retirement from May of 27, which is when we have an emergency fund fully funded, until that maturity date of 2030, we would like to focus aggressively on paying the mortgage down. We've worked through the Ramsey mortgage payoff calculator, and it shows that if we put in a, extra $3,000 on mortgage each month in that time period that we would go into 2030 with only about $266,000 left on our mortgage. And this would allow our new mortgage payment to be within the 25% take-home pay guidelines

that you guys suggest. What's it out right now? What percentage is it out right now? I am not sure off the top of my head. Is it above 25? I believe. What is it? Around 27, I believe.

Okay. I'm just a little, I mean, I'm always nervous about an adjustable rate mortgage, especially, I mean, with mortgage rates right now. It's changing. There's no part of you that's just wanting to go ahead and, I mean, why wait until it matures? Why not just go, I'm going to refinance this thing? It's already at 6.99%. So you're not far off from what it would be if you were to lock in just a fixed rate, 15 years. is your current one 15 year or is it 30?

It's a 30 year with a balloon date of five years. And I'm just going to tell you I'm nervous about that because if you were to swap to a 15 year fixed rate, I think that it's going to, I don't know what it's going to do to your payment, but I think it's going to move it up a little bit and how much home you can afford and your 25%. But if I were you, I'd be trying to get out of this adjustable rate mortgage. That'd be thing one. and then my goal would be to get then to a 15 year. People ask me all the time.

George, what's your number one money saving hack? I'm glad you asked. Nothing makes me happier than helping another frugal friend. So here's the hack. Get on a budget. Seriously, how are you supposed to save money if you don't know how much you're spending in the first place? And that's what makes the every dollar budgeting app a game changer.

With every dollar, you'll get a clear picture of your spending, and from there it's easy to see where you can get more intentional, cut back, and save more money. How much money are we talking? Well, the average every dollar budgeter frees up $395 in their very first budget. And if you ask me, I think you're way above average. So, why are you still listening to me? Go download every dollar for free and start saving more money right now. Our scripture of the day comes from Deuteronomy 2812. The Lord will open to you his good treasure, the heavens, to give the rain to your land and its season and to bless all your work of your hand.

You shall lend to many nations, but you shall not borrow. Theodore Roosevelt said, when you play, play hard. When you work, don't play at all. I don't know. I think we can kind of play at work a little bit. I don't know. We can have some fun. Come on, Theo.

I don't know. Lighten up, Theo. He's an intense man. Good for the history, though. All right, let's go to Christina in Atlanta, Georgia. Hi, Christina. Welcome to the show. Hi, thank you.

Hi, yes, thanks for calling in. Yeah, I'm calling because I currently am dating, my boyfriend, we're dating for close to a year almost. And our income levels are very different, and I just really don't know how to handle that in terms of, like, compromising in the future. If I want it alive with him, that means, like, either I have to kind of, like, lower my current life in a way or start paying for part of his stuff. And I just feel like the discrepancy is really big.

Okay. What is it? What do you make? What does he make? I make like about 155K and he makes like 50K. Okay. Okay. Go ahead.

Well, what does he do for a living? He works for a logistics company, kind of like trucking and dispatching. Okay. What do you do? And I'm in technology. I'm a project manager in technology. Okay. Great.

Is he a motivated person? I don't think there's anything wrong with what he's earning. I just think that the bigger thing I'd be looking at is what's his attitude. Like, is he a motivated person? Is he interested in the same goals I'm interested in? Is he a person who likes forward movement in his life? Because it sounds like you are. Yeah, I am very driven and motivated.

Like, ever since I was in college, I was like, oh, I was like, want to make money and I'm in a really good financial state. I don't think he has the same motivation or drive that I have. I would probably have to push him. I think he does listen to me. It has been kind of motivated seeing me. But I just don't know it's like moving in together. Like that would be the next step and I want to take it. But at the same time, I don't know how to mix the finances and then have to lower a lot of the things that I currently do.

Well, I don't let me clarify. I don't think that he has to be exactly like you. I'm just saying clearly you value someone who is motivated and is interested in forward movement. So I'd be looking for some level of that. I'd also be interested in knowing what his philosophy is with money versus yours. If you're not, if you're a no debt person, is he a no debt person? If you're a, I want to invest for my future and I put money away, is he interested in savings in those types of ways? Like those are the conversations I'd be having more so than what's the dollar amount that I make every single month.

because the truth is you are also in different fields. And he may cap out at 100. You might always make a little bit more than him. And so is it just like, gosh, I just want a guy who makes more money than me? Or are there other factors that you're looking for, characteristics that you're looking for in his character? Okay. I think my only concern, my biggest concern is like retirement.

Like I have a lot of money already safe for retirement and like he doesn't. How old are you? Just because he doesn't make enough money. I'm 33. And how old is he? How old is he? 30, sorry. 35. 35. Christine, I mean, well, we don't recommend combining finances at all until you're married.

Okay. So once you get married, though, then yes, I would say it all goes into one pot. And you wouldn't have to lower your lifestyle because you're going to be making what you're making. He's going to be bringing in $50,000. So you guys as a household with these numbers, we'll be making $200,000. So as a household, we're going to be investing $50,000. 15% of our income as a household. We're going to be budgeting as a household. We're going to be buying a house together. That's the movement. So it's less about who brings in what, but to see

yourselves as one. Now, if you don't feel good about that, then yeah, you probably shouldn't marry him. Okay. But I would say I would push a little bit to look at this as more unity for the future. right not today but in the next step doesn't have to be moving in together that does not the next step for you could be like i'm going to date this guy a little while longer i'm going to open up these conversations figure out what his motivations are figure out his philosophy on money and if i like that then i'm going to keep dating him and if he wants to propose then we can cross that bridge when we get to it but don't feel like the next thing you have to do is moving in together and combine your lot Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I just feel it just feels a little uncomfortable to talk about money and coming from like a, I don't know, like more abundant place for me. Do you think he'd feel uncomfortable or you feel uncomfortable? I definitely feel uncomfortable. Why? I don't know how he feels.

Just because, like, I am always, like, traveling and buying things and doing a lot of things that he's. he cannot do. Does he feel away about that? Has he expressed, gosh, I'm left out or I don't, because what I'm trying to get at is maybe he feels really great about what he's doing and his job and he's feeling secure. And I don't know, but maybe you're just automatically projecting that on him because you make a little bit more. Yeah.

Okay. It may not be as big of it. He hasn't said anything. I just don't want to, I've been so scared to bring it up, basically. just because I don't want to, you know. Does he know what you earn? Does he know you make $155? No, no.

Okay. He knows they make a lot more than he does, but he does not know how much. Well, know this, Christina. Money is a massive piece of a relationship, okay? And being on the same page with money is a big part, as is, you know, you could say spirituality, talking about that, in-laws and family.

I mean, getting to know someone is a big part of building. a relationship. And when you hold this part away from him, he doesn't have the opportunity to know you, right, on a level of what you're doing. And so I guess I could see your fear of how he would react, but I do think there's a level that you may be making up a story in your head that's not really there. Unless it's a deal breaker for you, I'm just curious, is it when you say like the guy I want, is it one of your gender roles that it's Like he needs to make more than me. And if so, why is that?

No. No, no, it's not. I just, I just don't want to feel like superior to him and financially. I don't know. I feel like that's how it would come off. If I would say, like, okay, here I make three times more than what you make. What do you think about money? Hmm.

I would be interested to see how he feels, but today I think it's more your issue than his. Okay. And it's not to say that you can't have that. And I think you should have that conversation and just say, hey, we've never talked about money. Like, get to know him first before you just drop the bomb. And hopefully he's asking you the same types of questions that you're asking about him. And let it unveil itself pretty like organically. This is not the conversation to be like, hey, how much do you make? Because I make this and I just feel like it's going to be a problem. Just start talking. Yes. And see what comes about organically. Don't have the conversation. in order to like figure it out, just start getting to know him financially. And I think that it'll unveil itself in an organ. It's been a year. I think you've got some time to. And the only reason you would do this, Christina, is for a future that you see with him, right?

And if this is going to be a person that you say, yes, I see a future with him. And I'm going to combine my life. And I'm going to make a vow to him to be with him for the rest of my life. And I'm going to be married to him. And I'm going to be his wife. And he's going to be my husband. then these are very, very crucial conversations to have to make sure you guys are at a good spot together heading into creating a new life, right, together. So like Jade's saying, if marriage isn't

coming soon, I guess there's probably not an urgency for this, but if you're wanting to move forward in this relationship, then yes, this is a subject that needs to be talked about. Okay. Yeah. So I hope that helps. I mean, I, and I, I think the you feeling superior is, you know, your net worth is not your self-worth. And that's true for you too, you know. And I think you know that. You're not three times better than him because you make more money. And you could be building up something that, again, it may not be there for him. He may be okay. And he loves you. And he loves who you are. And he's been in relationship with you for a year. All right. That's a great hour, Jade. It is. Always fun hosting

with you thanks to everyone and the boothings to our great audience that came out today. And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace. And that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.