The Ramsey Show - Debt Is Never the Problem, It’s Always the Symptom

Episode Date: December 2, 2024

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Hey you guys, Cyber Monday deals are here. So shop meaningful Christmas gifts that won't bust your budget right now at ramsysolutions.com slash store. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. George Campbell, Ramsey personality, author of the number one best-selling book Breaking Free from Broke he is my co-host today and we're here to help you guys also check him out on YouTube that shows going to zoom zoom phone number here is triple eight eight two five five two two five Darlene is in Philadelphia hi Darlene how are you hi Dave I'm great thanks for taking my call I feel blessed

today talking to the both of you well we're honored to have you how can we help so I just wanted some financial advice or thoughts I'm 54 I've never been married I have no children I live in a different state than where I grew up and as I'm aging I'm realizing that I will likely move back to my home state to have that support in aging in about 10 to 11 years when I retire. But a job opportunity came up this past fall that I applied for and wasn't expecting to get, but they did offer me the job. Um, and I just have some financial concerns about it.

Not sure if it's wise for me to move back now. So one is the salary there. And this is through negotiation. They're offering me what I was making last year at my current employer. Currently I have a pension. If I leave now, I make, right now I make a hundred and four, almost a hundred and five. But I also, we have a lot of overtime. I work in healthcare and I'll be making like gross about 11,000 in the overtime this year. We have a pension.

If I leave now, it'll be about $400 a month as opposed to possibly like, I think I figured out possibly $1,200 a month as opposed to possibly like I think I figured out possibly $1,800 a month The overtime there for oh three beat they don't start matching I have to be there a full year before they start matching and then what are they gonna pay you? What what are they gonna pay you base? 102 5 and where is it? It's in upstate New York. it's in Bighamton, New York. I'm guessing less expensive than the Philadelphia area that you're in now.

It really isn't. About the same. It really isn't. Housing is, but and I go back frequently because I have an elderly father and my family's there. Really it's not, there's a lot more taxes, income tax is going to be more than what I pay here, utilities, I was just looking at my dad's utility bill and they tax a lot compared to what they do here in Pennsylvania. Can you afford to live there comfortably? Are you debt free with an emergency fund?

This wouldn't really cramp your lifestyle too much? Yes. The numbers are fairly equal. You're not giving me, you're not telling me. It's not a 50% pay gap. Yeah, it's not like 150 versus 100, it's 102 versus 104 versus a little bit of difference in cost of living one way or the other. A little bit of taxes one way or the other.

So the question comes down to where does Darlene want to live and where does Darlene want to work? Okay, because I was concerned about the pension losing that money for the pension as well as the over time that they don't give uh... like i won't make over time there they you that one have to work at the march uh... bank deal what what does darlene wanted no we're not working overtime what do you want to do you know i'm used to the money and I got to be honest, Dave, everything that you speak

is how my parents raised us. I mean, it's to a T. So I just want to make sure I have enough money going, you know, moving back. Are you nursing? Am I what? Are you a nurse? I'm in rehab. I'm a speech therapist. Okay. So you can pick up side hustles too if you wanted to. I can. But I did side hustle

for like 22 years. So I want to do it. If you're going to do overtime, overtime is called side hustle. It's the same thing. Yeah. So if you were up there and you picked up a side gig doing some tutoring, so to speak, then you could offset the overtime difference so it really does come down to quality of life because the numbers you're giving me aren't like wow you know there's no real there's no real thing that breaks the camel's back here so no straw here so I wanted to get clear clear because just the thing was the pension and the overtime that and me off but yeah you're a very analytical person and and I am too um but I I want you to uh just

say okay God which of these two things gives me peace? Right. What causes you to exhale? And as Deloney says, your shoulders drop. Is it staying or is it going? And that's the answer to my question if I'm you. What do you think, George? Yeah, well, I think there's more than the numbers here that she needs to dig into. Is it the fear of just change at 54? Is it gonna be-

She's gonna do it anyway. Is the grass greener on that side? What if I move and life isn't different? And so that's the stuff you gotta grapple with on top of just doing the budget. And I think the numbers are gonna work themselves out. It's more the other pieces that I think she's really concerned about.

There's no grass that's green up there this time of year on either place. Exactly. It's gonna be cold either way, Darlene. So just make the move, be closer to family, and you're a hard worker, you're gonna be fine financially. Exactly, it's gonna be cold either way, Darlene. So just make the move, be closer to family, and you're a hard worker, you're gonna be fine financially. Yeah, you're gonna be okay. And yeah, nothing's set in stone.

And by the way, if you don't like it, you can change it. But yeah, I think that's a good idea. You know, it is real smart to look at cost of living, because everyone automatically assumes, and she's very wise to have done the research she done they automatically assume if you're going to a different area that it's gonna be a lot more it's gonna be a lot less and sometimes it is but main factor in that like as she recognizes usually real estate oh yeah usually that's the main difference I mean the difference in you know Los

Angeles or San Francisco and you know small the USA is gas prices, little bread and eggs, little housing, a lot. That's the one. Yeah, that's the one that throws you and it just changes everything. In Tennessee we have no income tax so people don't realize if you get a job in Tennessee even if a pay cut it might be equal comparatively to California or New York where you have a lot of income taxes. Yeah that's those you know I was noticing an article this morning the a million people have left New York and California. Wow because we've been covering this since COVID with the migration in the last 12 months and it just

has continued. Yeah it's continued and and they're landing in income tax free states. Look at that. Texas and Florida are the two primaries and Tennessee falls in there too. But they landed income tax free states and they land in states that were open during the draconian shutdowns and so freedom issues. Financial and political. I mean some million people have been displaced Wow a million and left those two states and went somewhere else so yeah that does enter into it taxes it turns out you can't tax the rich they leave people just peace out I'm gone they leave they have options so much for

your theory on that it's a I'm done you You know load up the U-Haul. Oh wait, I'm rich I'll let someone else load up the U-Haul. That's the real flex. Yeah, that's where I want to be in life No movers ever again. I'm not doing it. I'm not lifting a finger Yeah, and also you need to even somebody said Dave you have a pickup Do you have those friends that ask me ask you to help move and I said no, they wouldn't be friends No one's ever moving anybody saying Dave. Can I borrow the truck? You want me to help you move you mean you want me to pay your mover? You want me to help you move? Is that what you mean? I would rather support a GoFundMe for you to get movers than me help you load up that truck. I'm not doing

either one if you need a GoFundMe to move you got other issues. Don't ask Dave to borrow his Raptor he will not allow it. No. Get your own Raptor. Or my 64 year old back either one you can't have either one of them this is the Ramsey show hey I'm excited to talk about a new sponsor Berna you all probably know I'm a gun guy but I'm big on safety so I'm also a Berna guy Berna is the ungun a less lethal option that protects you in more ways than one. A Berna is effective self-defense when you need it. It also helps protect your assets from lawsuits if you have no choice but to use force. Because a Berna pistol immobilizes attackers without fatal harm. I have several Berna pistols and I love them.

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BYRNA.com slash Dave Well, I think they call this Cyber Monday Which I'm learning about Because my I'm tech about because my... I'm tech-savvy, Dave. My wife was really excited about it, so there you go. Really? Is Sharon the online shopper in the family now?

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I'm impressed. So, I mean, you go from a negative net worth to millionaire in less than 10 years, you should talk about how to do it in here for $12. That's good information and amazing all right Ramsey solutions dot com slash store you can actually buy gifts for people that have meaning not last year's ugly tie come on people yeah listening on YouTube or podcast click the link or you can go to Ramsey solutions dot com backslash store Jared is with us in Oklahoma City hi Hi Jared. Welcome to the Ramsey show

Hi, how are you guys doing better than we deserve brother? What's up? I know that so I'm 23 and I'm saving up to buy a house and I was looking for guidance because I The first time buying I have no idea where I'm going. I've almost got my 20% and That's where I'm at. Good for you got my 20% and that's where I'm at. Good for you. What do you do for a living? I do pest control. Good for you. How much have you got saved? Filling bugs that apparently pays.

Yeah. So I've got, I've just had 20, 26,000 and I'll have the rest of it by mid January. Wow. So what's the rest? I'll have about four or five grand. Yeah, good for you. What do you make? 70.

Yeah, you're single obviously. Yes, and I do nothing but work. 60, 70 hours, sometimes 80 hours a week. Right now it's grind time. Jared is no fun, but he has money. Jared's going to be a homeowner in his early twenties. That's fun. Way to go, Jared. What you're saying about living like nobody else.

Yeah, you're doing it. Or all that. I'm just working like a dog right now so I can enjoy a little bit of my food. So you have any debt? No. Good. And you have an emergency fund in addition to this down payment that was gonna be my next You're nice. They roughly my next after I buy it. I was just gonna pick up a side No, we'll take some of the money and make it the emergency fund and then we'll save up the down payment You don't move into a house without an emergency fund

because houses are an emergency looking for a place to happen. Yeah, yeah like crap breaks like as soon as you move in it's like Murphy's law. And repairmen at my house today, and it was brand new. They don't make them like they used to. Well, I mean, it's just part of life. It's just like stuff. You got, the more stuff you have, the more repairmen you have to know. It's an exposed wooden box.

Stuff's gonna happen. So you need the emergency fund, three to six months of expenses. So add up what your expenses are for one month, multiply it for a single guy like you, you could lean towards a three to four month mark. Anything above that becomes your down payment. And 20% down is a great goal because you'll avoid

PMI which is private mortgage insurance which means you're now looking at March Okay, that's Still okay. Yeah, that's good. You're listen dude. You're killing it. I'm so proud of you way to go Who taught you to be this smart? um Honest I honestly Nobody like I've just like and it's like a bad thing it? Um, honestly, I honestly, nobody. Okay.

I've just like, and it's not like a bad thing. Like I was just, I mean, kind of you, I took your class was in our high school. There we go. And I kind of remember. And then I, I had, we had this class called Deca. It's like a, it teaches you how to present. Oh yeah. I think Rachel did that. Rachel was in Deca. It's like a, Oh yeah. It teaches you how to present. I think Rachel did that. Rachel was in Deca. Yeah. I was student. I was the president of the class senior year and I went to

national. It was supposed to be in Nashville, but COVID hit tragically. So I was first in the school. Way to go Jared. Way to go. So man, you are doing so good. The only thing I would coach you on is to do that what we talked about Let's have the down payment plus the emergency fund which puts us into March and then when you are getting ready to buy do not buy a Project something you have to work on all the time. No, that's a different one. Okay, and Do not buy and buy something That's easy to resale Which means it's kind of boring

It's not like some kind of weird. It's not some kind of weird hundred. What? Must pop like my my price is between like 150 and 200 That's a good price range, but when you're spending the money don't buy something that you look at it and go oh I got a good good deal because this is weird because when you get ready to sell it somebody's gonna get a good deal because it's weird and you're gonna sell it when you get married because you will find out you bought the wrong house when you find her so that's okay go ahead and buy the house, but buy something that you can resell and make money on fairly easily.

And you'll be sitting there at 27 with a big grin on your face having made a bank on this $150,000 house is now $300. You'll experience that exact same thing. Yeah, our first town home. You buy in a good area with good schools, you start to look at the stuff. And it was a nice place, but in terms of it wasn't like super special or unique. It's nobody's dream home. It wasn't weird you know it was just like okay boom that's one.

That's right three bedroom townhome is all it was. And during the time you owned it it went up how much? Oh my goodness I mean three years we lived there it went up over 200 grand. my goodness, I mean, three years we lived there, it went up over 200 grand. Yeah, that's what I just did. And we bought it at three, and so you're talking almost 100%. And I just did that, so 150 to 300, just like when he's 27 in three years.

That's amazing. So do it the right way, you want this to be no more than a quarter of your take-home pay on that mortgage, and make sure you choose a 15-year. Yeah, exactly. Because you're too young to have a 30-year mortgage sitting around your neck. 15-year fixed, because a 15-year. Yeah. Because you're too young to have a 30-year mortgage sitting around your neck. 15-year fixed because a paid off home mortgage

is one of the keys to being a Baby Steps millionaire. Kayden is in Greenville, South Carolina. Hey Kayden, what's up? Hey, hey Dave, how are you doing today? Better than I deserve, how can I help? So I just wanted to come on and just ask a quick question. You know, I took your class last year with a Sunday school class, but I'm a recent graduate from Clemson. I just graduated in May. Congratulations. Thank you, sir.

And wound up in a pretty good situation financially with my present work. But I'm pursuing medical school in the near future. I'm looking at possibly starting in about two years from right now. But I'm just wondering, how is the best way to save up for something of that magnitude? Aggressively. Okay.

I mean, how much are you making? You said a good situation, What'd you land in? I'm making about 60,000 salary and then but I think with when overtime comes which is I'll get salary and overtime I could easily you know working we're working extra hours probably wind up in the 70 to 80 range. Good okay and just live like a college student and bank all of it, right? Yes. So would it be best to try to knock that down and like pay off all of that or

take out a, take out a, you know, uh, a loan for the four years of medical school? Kayden, you went through our class. Yes. Yeah. You never heard me ever tell somebody to borrow money, have you? No, sir. Probably not going to start today, brother. Dang, that would have been amazing, though.

Kayden was the first one ever. He made it. He said, all right, I'll make it. Yeah. I want you to save like a maniac, and I want you to go to a medical school that you can afford, and I've got a feeling you're gonna be on almost ready to pay cash forward if you watch what you're doing now the problem with medical school is people get so excited when they get accepted and sometimes they get accepted

to a place they can't afford and very few times do you go to your doctor and go wait a minute doc before we do the exam where'd you go to school no one asks all they ask is do you have that MD? If there's a frame on the wall, I go, alright, I'm good. I'm assuming to start with that you have a clue. An MD. Do your research. That's what you're after.

Find out what these schools cost and choose an affordable one. It's a big difference out there. Huge spectrum. It's mind-blowing what some of these places charge. It's like all college, for that matter matter and what some of them don't charge This is the Ramsey show For free tools and resources to help you reach your home goals go to RamseySolutions.com slash real estate or click the link in the show notes Hey guys, I've never done this before but I'm partnering with a nutrition company Field of Greens

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dot com slash Ramsey. George Campbell Ramsey personality number one bestselling author is my co-host today. Open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five. Lauren is in St. Paul. Hi Lauren. Welcome to the Ramsey show. Well, hello Dave. How are you

today? Better than I deserve, what's up? Okay I have a question regarding long term health care insurance. My husband and I back when we were married bought whole life insurance policies because that's what our parents did for us so we changed them over on and on. Our financial advisor suggesting that we cash those in and invest in a long-term care insurance for nursing home and that in the future. Just wondering what your thoughts are on that situation. Well, cashing the whole life in is a no-brainer assuming you have enough life insurance to take care of you what's your net worth right now about six hundred

thousand okay and how old are you guys we are 62 and 64 okay if he dies with no life insurance are you okay yes yes I mean financially yes yes I would be fine yes because he that does not include what he is so he's a minister and he would get like a retirement to through there also that survived this survives him yes yeah he cannot collect that till he's 67 and a half but you can you can collect it if he dies yes i can okay all right so you're okay to eat you don't need life insurance so dropping the whole life is a no-brainer okay right now um long-term care insurance what you

want to do there is you want to shop it among several different companies kane and basically uh... try to get the best deal in other words uh... and so i don't know who your what your financial advisor if they're selling only for one company that's a problem uh... do they sell only for one company you know she suggested several

different ones. Good, okay. Here's what you get today. You get three years of coverage and that will cover 90 some odd percent of the cases. Very few people live three years once they get to a nursing home statistically. It's 2.8 years. Okay. On average, okay? And what normally happens is, mom and dad go along like you guys have, you got a good nest egg here, and 75% of you ladies outlive their husbands. I don't know exactly what's going on there, but we'll talk about that later. So, and so Papa goes into a nursing home, burns up three or $400,000, because it's a hundred, hundred and something thousand

dollars a year. If he's there three years, it's 300 grand of your 600. And then dies and leaves mama with a nest egg having been scrambled and fried. So I think you guys are a real candidate for nursing home insurance. The three years of coverage that you probably can buy and it's fairly reasonable if you shop around and

you know you want to you know the other look for a feature that has in-home care as well because it's sometimes cheaper and some and oftentimes a better quality of life to have in home care and so yeah I think you're getting good advice okay no red flags here you got what our what our concern was it would swing us up to quite a big payout every month for this insurance and so just you know how much are they quoting you 679 a month for both that would be two two hundred thousand dollar life insurance or long-term care yeah yeah and how much are you getting out of the whole life policies what are they valued at right now yeah what's your cash value you're

gonna get when you close them? between the two of us around 52,000 yeah, so I pays for it But the cost seems very reasonable. I'm seeing the stat here in 2023 average 60 year old man paid 1200 bucks per year That's about right for a level policy So I don't hear anything that your financial advisor saying that's that's like shooting rockets off wrong It's all correct The only thing you need to do is get down in the details and understand it and get comfortable with it you're gonna use some of that 50 grand offset your first year of costs to move that in maybe some of the second year and

You know, then you've got to decide how far out you want to stretch this now You are 64. If you don't touch the 600 by the time you're 71, you will drop the long term because you'll have a million two to a million five. You can stomach the risk at that point. Exactly. That's the point of insurance. It'll transfer risk to the insurance company instead of you. And right now you guys couldn't stomach that with your net worth to take a $300 thousand dollar hit. Yeah, so George it suddenly occurred to me I've told people all these years don't buy long-term care insurance until you're 60 and I really haven't talked a lot about If you build substantial wealth that you self-insure until I just woke up and went dad gum. I'm 64

So what happens if Sharon or I are in a situation where we're incapacitated? Well, I guess you know, we've got money and so I don't mean that in a bragging way, but you know what I want to do Get like a bed that lets up and down and hire somebody to live there and take care of one of us He's not leaving a lot, you know, I you think I'm no we're you know, you don't want to play bingo You can do that at home. Yeah online or something. Yeah, no, I mean it's just that I Can hire a dad gum medical butler and not think anything about it, you know full-time Put them in the house. Take care of us or her or me or whoever it is and the other one beef just Equip this create the same exact environment but better

Yeah in your own home, because you got the money to do it, you're self-insured. And I just determined, oh, that's what we'll do. So we're not a candidate for a nursing home under any circumstances. I can think of, I mean,

I guess there'd be some extreme thing maybe, but I mean, at this moment in time, financially, we don't need to do that. Well think about the cost, 350 grand. So think about that as part of your net worth as the listener. If you can stomach that from your nest egg without it affecting your life, you could self-insure.

That's your average. That's the average. With the average stay. Which means that some people don't make it that long and some make it longer, right? And so, you know, you've got early onset and good health you could be there ten years. Yeah I'm seeing the stat here 20% will need it for more than five years. Okay. So one in five people will have a longer stay. Yeah. Like you said most people it's you know two years. Average is 2.8 yeah so good.

Christina is in San Francisco. Hi, Christina. How are you? Hi, Dave. Pretty good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, I'm a disabled veteran. I got my disability in 2020, and I got a sizable check and wanted to buy a house. With that, I make about 4,200 a month on the disability, And I got a sizable check and wanted to buy a house with that. And I make about 4,200 a month on that disability, which is very good.

So I ended up just buying a piece of land because the whole process of like trying to find a good real estate agent didn't work out well. And then I waited to build. And then here I am four years later and I have not built a house yet There's no utilities on the property yet. I'm living in my travel trailer on the property legally But I still don't have a house and We're trying to work through the process. My dad is now helping me. I

Cannot afford really to build on my own. I need him to help me. I need a co-signer and then you can't afford to build. And I, yeah, I can't afford to go. You, you bet off more than you can chew. Pretty much. Yeah. And so the property, it's in a city, you know, it's a half acre. It's a, so it's a great size. Uh, I bought it for two 250 with 25% down which was required by the

blender so I now I only owe about 160,000 on it and it's worth 265 or it's assessed by the county at 265 Oh, it's worth then it's worth 365 or 400. Yeah, it's probably it would probably sell for more than I bought it for. Oh, I think so. You need to sell it by something you can afford. There's no point in keeping it. Honey, if you can't do it without a cosigner, you don't need to be doing it.

You're gonna get yourself in a pinch, okay? I wouldn't do that. Well, but yeah, the concern is that right now I'm paying about a quarter of my monthly income for just the land loan. Yeah, so sell the land. And go buy something you can afford. You can't afford to build on it, huh? That's what you told me.

And I don't want you to do that. I appreciate you serving your country. And I don't want you to get handcuffed to a bad deal. And I don't want your dad handcuffed to a bad deal. Let's don't do this. Remember the good old days of the internet before it was a privacy nightmare filled with spammers, scammers, hackers and fraudsters? Simpler times.

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George Campbell Ramsey personality is my co-host today. The Ramsey question of the day is brought to you by why refi. We trust why refi because they help people who have defaulted private student loans to refinance with low fixed interest rate that they couldn't get anywhere else. Chris had a student loan and he cut his payment by over 40% with why refi go to Y refi comm slash Ramsey That's the letter Y our EF Y comm

Slash Ramsey might not be in all states today's question comes from Glenn in New York Should I change my investing strategy? I'm 50 years old and debt-free with an emergency fund I currently put 10% in Roth IRA and another 5% in my 401k from work. Should I contribute more to my 401k to max it out or get with a financial advisor and start investing in individual mutual funds? Currently I have around 600 grand in my 401k

and the Roth has about 20k. All right, so we're debt free, we're 50, that's good. We're investing 15%. So the question is, does he have a mortgage and is the house paid off? If so, I would continue to invest more and max out those accounts before working with the individual mutual funds outside of retirement. Yeah, if you're in baby step seven, meaning, and your house is paid off, we don't use the 15% rule, we say max out all available

retirement accounts everything you can put in a 401k everything you put in the Roth if your company has a Roth 401k instead of a traditional 401k I would shift to that too that would be my plan but I'm with you George if your home is not paid off then you need to be working and pay off your home and leave This at 15 percent. You're fine. You're in good shape, dude I mean when you are 57, you're gonna have a million two if you don't add anything to it When you are 64, you're gonna have 2.4 if you don't add anything to it So that you know if you're invested in good mutual funds it sounds like you are sounds like you're doing the right things here all

the way around. But no I don't think you need to move to individual mutual funds the only reason you would move some to that is if you were going to quit work before 59 and a half I don't see that happening here. I didn't hear anything in this email that made me think that was going to occur. If that's the case, you would need to do what we call bridge investing, which is have some money that's not in a retirement account that you can get to before 59 and a half to have something to eat with. That's always a nice plan too. So that eating thing is good.

So yeah, I mean, that's it. And George, that's the second time in this hour. We've used that so here Here's a little quick lesson boys and girls There's a thing called a math anomaly called the rule of 72s and If you take an interest rate or a growth rate on your mutual fund Divided into the number 72. It will take you tell you how long it takes a lump sum to double. Okay? And so, if you're making 10% on your mutual funds average, into 72 is 7.2 years to double. And so, that's what I just did. I'm assuming he's going to be making at least that if he's 50 at 57 he would have not 600 but 1.2 at

64 seven more years He would have 2.4 and we could go all the way to 71 and have him sitting there at almost 5 million dollars And this played out in real life Dave I went back and looked at the actual stats under Trump's presidency the first term Three and a half years in the stock market was up 53 percent under Biden three and a half years in it was up 50% So a hundred and three percent return in exactly seven years exactly what you say the stock market doubled in those seven years Yeah, that's about what I'll do. So this is not just an opinion or a math formula. It plays out in reality That's the averages. I mean, you know, and so we don't know

What's gonna happen from here exactly but that's that's you know that's a good thing to kind of coach yourself along ago I think I'm gonna be okay the key is to be in the Rogers in San Francisco hey Raj what's up hi how you doing first time caller long time mister glad to be on the show well thank you how can we? Okay so I'm a tax professional, I'm an old agent. Recently on the news I've been hearing that in order to reduce government inefficiencies and the Trump and team might remove income taxes and replace them with tariffs. That's all good, you know, that's okay, but for a tax professional, how would I, I'm 33 years old, I have like about five years

experience in the field, how would I facilitate a career change if that were to happen? I don't think it might happen, but you know, just in case it does. Well, you figure out what your talents and passions were that drew you into this in the first place. So I'm guessing, I'm guessing you're like me, you're a bit of a math nerd. You're quick with details. Uh, your mind grasps, uh, decision making flow charts on things like taxes. And so, you know, that tells me you need to move towards accounting. Yeah. Um, yeah, maybe some other, uh,

things in accounting that are not taxes like maybe audit. Exactly, exactly. And something in private accounting. Yeah, and or finance of all kinds. And so your mind naturally goes there. And you know what, I'm with you. I don't see this as a high probability in the near future. There could be a trend in that direction.

It could take a while. The chances on you know three days after he is sworn in that you don't have a job or zero. So you're okay. We don't have to worry about this today. But what it does do, it's interesting for you personally, is it kind of gives you that wake-up call to go, hey maybe I want to do something with my life. That's more than just taxes. Maybe I want to broaden my horizons. Yeah, I've been in the field and um, my, the whole time I've been in the field, I was thinking that there's only two things that are true is death and taxes.

Well, now we know one of them might not be true. Well, it might be true. It'll just take a different form. Um, and, and so the, but again, the, the, the talents that you have, the way your mind works easily for you and hard for others, it takes you towards detail and towards finance and accounting. And so I, you know, you might sit for your CPA dude, you might, you might move, might go ahead and this is just a thing. It says, Hey, time for me to take the next step in my career, regardless of Trump, regardless of what they do.

We're not going to sit and wait around in the White House to fix or destroy our lives, either one. We're just going to go with our lives. What's the right thing to do? And so maybe this is just God giving you a little nudge. So you need to get some education, some skills, and maybe expand the horizons a bit. I would, I think it'd be good for your practice anyway. Because right now you've got a very seasonal thing that you work like a maniac and then you're off the rest of the year, basically. I mean, 90% down. And so it's not like September's big

in the tax prep business, you know? So, you know, we do a little work around this time of year in the tax prep business because people are getting ready for year-end stuff, especially small business people, those kinds of things. There's some moves you can make right now. You need to check with your tax pro right now, baby. But by and large, you know, you got this sprint in the first quarter, takes you down to April 15 or so, and may spill over into May with some late filings and stuff. after that you're just kind of out so I'd be looking for something to supplement anyway. Absolutely and maybe find a niche you might find you like

working with a certain type of client and that might be your specialty that you dive into. Yeah we've got tax ELPs people that we endorse to do taxes endorse local providers thousands of them them all across America, and we are not advising them to prepare for their business to end. Yeah, I'd turn off the news if you're getting paralyzed by that. Yeah, again, I have no idea any more than anybody else what the new president's going to do, but it's going to be a bit it's going to be a bit um things things move slower than than that i don't think you're going

to get a call one day and go what there's no income tax although on a personal note it wouldn't piss me off at all if there was just suddenly no income tax i'd be going oh wow, I get to, you mean all the things that, the money that I make helping people, I get to keep the money that I made. That's right. And the thought of triple taxed. Instead of sending it to you people. Have you ever thought about that though? When you get, you're taxed on your income, you then use that money, it's taxed again, and then the person who gets that money pays taxes on the money they get as the business owners, it just keeps going. And then when you die they tax you again. The death tax on your estate. So it's just an endless taxation of the dollar. Yeah, it's just, yeah. I have thought about it. Am I

turning into a boomer? You are. You've been sitting next to one for too long. That's right. And the... It's rubbed off. The spirit of rage is leaving my body and moving into yours. Oh no, soon I'll be yelling at kids to get off my lawn Yeah, that happened to me this week It was your grandkids Dave. It's different. It was no of my neighbor yelled at me to get off his lawn There you go a bold move. Yeah He was sort of kidding maybe

This is the Ramsey show This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Alright, hey, it's that time of year when it's getting a little colder, it's getting dark earlier, and sometimes we just want to stay inside and get cozy. For me, the perfect night at home when I'm trying to be cozy is me and my whole family under a bunch of big blankets watching a TV show or reading a book. Whatever your perfect night in looks like, therapy can feel a bit like that. A time when you can settle in, get cozy, replenish your energy and take care of yourself.

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. George Campbell, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author of the book Breaking Free from Broke on sale on Cyber Monday right now at Ramseyysolutions.com. He's my co-host. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Anne is in Phoenix. Hi Anne, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi. Hi. What's up? So my question is, is it worth dipping into our emergency fund while we fight insurance to make sure I'm okay medically? Um, a little more into that.

I think I'm having an ectopic pregnancy and my husband's all for dipping into the emergency fund cause he's already done the math. He's 20 steps ahead. And instead of fighting insurance, he would rather just make sure I'm okay, literally Thursday and then fighting insurance for a month and I have to go in for emergency surgery. Well I think your husband is a hundred percent right. It sounds like an emergency to me it's urgent it's, and it's unexpected. Yeah. It checks the boxes. And to me we have insurance.

What are you a Navy SEAL? You don't think you need to do this? I mean, you know, you need to take care of yourself, girl. To me it's the insurances problem. Like we have, he's military so we have insurance. I think it's your problem. You're sick. Yeah.

Okay. I think you fight with them. I would argue with them up and down. And I would go all, you know, I'd go all in right now and be tearing their freaking heads off. But, but at the end of the day, we've been doing that for about two weeks. Yeah. Well, don't stop. Yeah. Don't stop. Just keep, keep doing it up until the day of, but yeah, you need to go and take care of yourself. Okay. Sounds like your husband's worried about you. He has to, he is, he's very worried. Okay.

What's the cost out of pocket? Um, it would be initially just for the ultrasound. It's, um, $500 and I, I am, I was a, I had a really bad spending habit. I love shopping. I'd get it from every female I'm related to. So spending money now feels like a heart attack in my, Oh, cause you've overcome impulsive shopping. Well, listen, an ultrasound when you're having a baby is not impulse. Okay. Now what do this? I will tell you that if you will shop around the wonderful

town of Phoenix, you will find that you can probably get that ultrasound done for 250. Yeah. There's lots of places to do ultrasounds. And their price range, again, if you say no insurance cash when I walk in, what's your best deal? Like I want a coupon, like you're a shopper. Okay. Okay. You're gonna find that we find this all the time I've actually advertised for a few ultrasound places over the years in certain cities and not one in Phoenix and not lately so I don't know the name of it but I remember this concept they came to us and go oh the reason everybody charges 500 or 600 bucks is

because insurance will pay it but if you walk in there with cash you can get it for 200 and that's what that company told us that does ultrasounds. So, and they advertised to that for a while to try to steal business from the insurance ultrasound people or whatever, but yeah, shop around, get a better deal, but take care of yourself, kiddo. Okay. Husband's right.

You're worth it. By the way, give him a good hug. He's a good man. Okay. Showing up on the scene, taking care of his wife. Salute. Yes. He's a fantastic husband. Yes he is. They're out there. There's also an app. They're all taken, but they're out there. There's an app called, yeah that's true. There's an app called Billy Dave. They're not a sponsor of ours, but they have this cool app where it shows transparent pricing for procedures so you can type in the CPT code.

It'll tell you in your area what the cheapest facility is for that specific procedure. It's pretty cool. So it might be something you can check out as she does her research. I've never tried it personally, but I've heard good things. So it might be an option to at least know you're not getting screwed. I have a concept and George has an actual technical hack. There's an app for that Dave George has always got a technical hack for my good concept I've

got about 400 apps on my phone. I didn't know that that's so cool. Way to go George. Yeah. Billy. We've talked to them. What's it named after? I don't know I don't know if it's Billy as in the bill with the medical bills. Oh it is. I don't know. Billy Goat. We'll find out but it could be. I'm all about transparency because I'm the one who hates getting screwed. I'm feeling like I overpaid for something. So just to know I'm not getting screwed and this is actually a good deal makes me sleep better at night. I've been paying cash for medical stuff for a long time out of pocket and all you got to do is just go, I am paying cash, it's not insurance and most of the time it's like... discount. Yeah. Boom. I used to work at a doctor's office when I was 14 years old as the receptionist, and if they were cash paid.

Wait a minute. Yes, can you imagine walking in and seeing me? George, how tall were you at 14? About the same height, Dave. Could you see over the desk? I maxed out at five and a half. That was it. You were the receptionist.

I had to lean up a little. In a doctor's office. I think I sat on a pillow. At 14. That's right. Things I learned while I'm on the air in front of millions of people about George. That was my first real job Dave 12 bucks an hour. Wow. Yeah, you can pay big money back That was good money back then for a 15 year old. Are you kidding?

I mean they were seriously overpaying you but I remember they we get the the bills for the procedures and if they were a cash Pay the doctor would have me note it and it would be a severely discounted rate. You got that at 14. At 14, I figured that out. This is how George ends up with a book called Breaking Free from Broke. That's wisdom. He knows about Billy and he knows about-

I can't mow a lawn to save my life, but I know a CPT code. 14 year old George learns the hack for the medical system. Wow. Not on your bingo card. I did not see that coming today. George answering the phone. I'm a renaissance man Dave. You answered the phone. Did you have a little headset? No, I mean it was you know people walking up. It was more in person. I'd answer the phones,

which I was really good at. So I mean seriously folks uh and babies are one of the things that we've discovered this with the most and this was all the way back from the early days doing the show before health care was what it is now good or bad whatever you want to call it but in those days sometimes people did not have labor and delivery coverage on their health system on their health plan and what we learned was if you go to the hospital to have a baby, it's one of the few times that people want to go to the hospital. It's a good thing to go to the hospital. Most of the other times you're at the hospital, it's a bad thing, right?

And so labor and delivery is like good PR for hospitals. So, if for some reason you find yourself not covered, go to the hospital in the first trimester and say, I'm going to choose a hospital based on the deal that you give me for labor and delivery and I'm going to pay cash and I will pay 50% of it upfront before we get here and the other 50% on the day we arrive. So you will not be trying to collect and it's cash on the barrel head and you will see a 50 to a 70% reduction And that's what that's what we normally see from hospitals again Because they really like babies to come to their place because it's the time that people come to the hospital everyone involved the visitors are smiling The participant is smiling everybody right and so families all visiting there. Yeah, it's a good thing

So, you know take keep in mind they this is business they want in other words and so and you know you're a cash buyer you don't have insurance this is how it's gonna be they don't have to chase you for the money they got the money up front they like that sure you like that works in a lot of stuff out there ladies and gentlemen. But yes, if you are pregnant and you're having a trouble with your pregnancy, that is by definition an emergency. If you need to use some of your emergency fund, that's what it's for. This is the Ramsey Show. Are you working the baby steps? One of the smartest and most impactful changes you can make is to ditch your cash value life insurance plan, if you have one, and replace it with a term life policy. Listen, the only thing a cash value policy is good for is overcharging you for the life insurance and then paying you a crappy rate of return on your overpayment.

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from paycheck to purpose for just ten dollars or audiobooks for only 499 no matter who you're shopping for this is your chance to give life-changing gifts that won't break the bank But hurry these cyber Monday deals end tonight So go to Ramsey solutions dot com slash store right now ramsey solutions dot com slash store george camel ramsey personality is my cohost today open phones a triple eight eight two five five two two five dj is with us in austin te Hi DJ, how are you? Hi Dave, thanks for calling. Sure, what's up?

Ironically, I'm a long-time listener, alright, and didn't know it, but I followed the steps and have, without formal introduction to those steps or and I didn't realize you had common sense that I was I guess because by accident as I look back on it all right geez I said I've been doing exactly what you're talking about and what you outlined great great advice I agree with with 90 percent 95% of everything you said. Cash is king. My question is once we get to your level or we get to the level that you would take as the top, what's your thoughts on maintaining that whole lot harder, all right, to compound at this level than it was to get here.

whole lot harder alright to compound at this level than it was to get here and and i'm just uh... i'm just amazed that uh... what's going on in our world today and and and the leaks and and the shots that everybody's taking to take it away from you okay well the hard thing is not the actual compounding because a million dollars invested

in mutual funds does the exact same that 10 million does, does the exact same that 100 million does. It's the exact same compounding. A million dollars invested in good real estate does the exact same thing a hundred million dollars does in good real estate. So the compounding is not the problem the problem is a stinking taxation and estate planning and You know and maintaining your sanity as you manage more and more assets In terms of not letting it drive you bonkers because the more stuff you own the more repairmen you have to know kind of thing

and so maintaining your let actually getting peace from it rather than anxiety from it you know what I'm saying so the spiritual aspect of it is is more challenging the tax and estate planning is more challenging and because and estate planning is more challenging um and because as you said more people taking shots at it and really risk management becomes a thing because you know all of a sudden somebody wants to just sue you because they got a hangnail and exactly and they think it's easy money so you got to have risk management so those are things that come that i've've noticed have come into play And I think you just manage those things as if they're individual sciences That's what I've done. I've said okay risk management. Here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna study that I'm gonna learn about you know

How to split up the pie into small enough pieces that it doesn't have a big target on it and it doesn't it's not as attractive To everyone to sue I'm also going to not settle with anyone I'm going to destroy them if they come after me and try to get easy money I'm gonna make an example out of them and their jack-leg ambulance chasing attorney and I've done that I'm going to I mean I just set some policies in place and said okay here's what we're gonna do and obviously we buy insurance and obviously I don't own anything anymore everything's in some kind of a trust or an LLC or a C-corp or S-corp one of the two and then estate planning I've spent you know a couple hundred grand over the last 20 years on estate planning maybe

more to save 20 or 30 million in estate taxes and so and then the same thing on income tax which is just an ongoing thing so I mean all I've done is I've just had to get better at those things as the size has gotten better but the compounding is really not any trouble with the money making money it's kind of bizarre well you don't have debt attached to it. All that real estate cash flows way better. Yeah. Yeah. And if you just leave the investments alone, it'll grow. Yeah. And so it's just, it's one of the things that comes with the, you know, I'm a Christian, a person of faith, and so I believe I'm not the owner. I'm managing it for God. And so if God

asked me to manage something larger and more sophisticated, then I have to grow my skills, including the size of my backbone to handle whatever anxiety or stress that comes with it. To protect whatever comes with it. Well, and the fight, if I need to fight, including the just growing my brain about some of these subjects that I didn't know before and that kind of thing. It's part of becoming a manager of you know if you're gonna manage you know one restaurant it's different than managing 500 restaurants it's a different skill set you know and so even if you're a manager and you don't

not the owner you're working for someone else which is how I view it all also by the way DJ I'll just throw out again my faith journey with that has really really kept me from most of the time from being stressed out about this stuff because I just go God you got a problem. You have a problem. I'm the manager what do you want to do with your thing over here they got this situation you know and in prayer I just say okay Lord what do you want to do with your deal here and sometimes he says you want to fix that for me, God? Because I don't know what I'm supposed to do here. And it's your thing. So what do you call the owner and go with

the heat and airs out the renter called and said the heat and airs out, you know, call the owner. And so I call the owner sometimes. And I remember it. I'm not God. I don't have to have all the answers. I'm not perfect. I'm going to to have all the answers. I'm not perfect. I'm gonna just do the best I can do with the next right step. And that's released me from a large percentage of the stress that a lot of people feel in those situations where your wealth has come from.

You feel like you could just screw it up overnight. Yeah, I'm not gonna screw it up overnight because I'm not gonna make one single thing that blows the whole thing up. I'm not doing anything that's that reactionary or that risk I'm not that I'm too risk averse to do that but yeah it's just it's interesting so good stuff all right Jennifer is in Portland Maine hi Jennifer how are you I'm doing great thank you so much for taking my call Dave. I've been following you for about

20 years and when I first heard you I became debt-free and we moved to Maine. We paid off our home in 10 years and it's given us financial freedom. So thank you. Well, thank you. The reason I'm calling is I have an older cousin, I'm her only living relative, she has left everything in her will to me. She has a home that's paid for that's worth about $150,000. She has a $30,000 HELOC on there that's variable. She owes back taxes for last year of $4,300 and she's going to owe another $4,300 due in January. She has $30,000 worth of unpaid credit cards that she stopped paying on about three years ago.

She did have somebody convinced her to lease a Jeep and she paid that off but then she went back to them and took a really high interest loan out and we're just kind of sitting here wondering what we should do if she lost his home she'd have nowhere to go she's got bad credit and no money. How old is she? 77 and she's not in overly the best of health. Um, she does have an income of $3,500 a month that we've been trying to convince her to budget all these the last three years. And she has done, she has not done anything really to

help herself right so and so our problem then well we're wondering is it would it be would it behoove us to pay the taxes and the he lock off knowing that knowing that she's gonna go borrow it again in summer. Hmm. Yeah, I don't have it. Hope to this one. While this woman has a track record, that's abysmal. It's like every time, every time something gets cleaned up, she messes it up again. Right. I don't want to be a part of that. Right. Right. She, I mean, okay, so you pay off the HELOC and then the Jeep gets repoed and they sue her and so she goes and takes out another HELOC to pay the

lawsuit. That's what's coming. Yeah I don't I hate to say it but I don't think she's smart enough to realize she could even do that. She's smart enough to get the HELOC the first time well her husband who has is deceased did she did he do the Jeep no did he run up the credit cards no I wouldn't do this Jennifer Jennifer okay you're going good money after bad I would coach her I would love her I would be cheering for her I would write zero checks and the estate will pay off her debts and whatever's left if there is anything you'll get it.

I doubt there will be. Yeah, but I wouldn't have any expectation there. No, no, I think she needs to, I would scare the P. Wadden out of her. Hey you guys, when you go against what society thinks is quote normal, like avoiding debt for example, it might seem weird at first and that is totally okay.

We want you to be weird if that means you're doing things intentionally, including how you spend your healthcare dollars. And one way to be intentional is with Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM isn't health insurance. They're a health cost sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours

take care of healthcare costs without sacrificing their freedom. Programs start as low as $98 a month. Find out more and join at chministries.org slash budget. That's chministries.org slash budget. Hey, George Campbell here. So you're thinking about buying or selling your home. It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about and all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news, you don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsey's Real Estate Homebase is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence.

You'll find calculators, start to finish guides, a podcast and even an in-depth video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love? So if you're ready to take the next steps toward your home goals, go to ramsysolutions.com slash real estate. That's ramsysolutions.com slash real estate. George Campbell, Ramsey personality is my co-host. It is that time of year in a few weeks we're going to be doing your all's favorite show here on the Ramsey show. The Giving Show, where we hear from people who have received gifts that were

life-changing or given gifts that were life-changing. And for three hours we talk about that to inspire you to live like no one else so later you can live and give like no one else. So we need to hear from you if you want to be part of that show and share your story of giving or receiving that'll make our eyes leak and inspire people. I love it. Go to ramsysolutions.com slash ask, put giving in the subject line, leave us a little bit about your story. The team will get with you and set you up to be part of that program. It's going to be on December the 18th, so you need to get your submissions

in now. We do want to hear your story. Please go to ramsysolutions.com slash ask, put giving in the subject line. Brady is in Houston. Hi Brady, how are you? I'm good, how are you Gordon? Good, how can we help? Hey, I appreciate it. So me and my wife have come to the agreement that my current position as a business owner and it's not likely to get us to the goals that we've achieved that we set that we want to end up in our lives and my question to you is my wife is not willing to move away to find the right job that does that she wants to stay close to her family she's very close with them.

They're close with her and I'm close with them as well, but I'm more willing to go out and find that job, uh, you know, far away from here, if it's, if that's what it is. And she's, uh, very resilient to making that change. And, uh, there's not much job offers nearby where we live but there are you know hour hour and a half away from here so how you're in Houston I'm in Brenham yeah it's about an hour and a half outside of Houston okay so Houston's my nearest big town and so what kind of job are you looking for

got off job I'm a mechanical engineer. I've got experience in oil and gas and I've got experience in manufacturing in aerospace safety systems. I'm actually looking right now for a role potentially in oil and gas but also in I know that there's a lot of space exploration that is picking up. So what would you be making in the new role, approximately? I would be a fourth year engineer,

so somewhere between 80 to 90,000. What do you make now out of small business? It's a carpentry business. That was a passion that I jumped into. And it's very, it varies, course based on the job. I've been able to maintain around 65 to 70 a year but that's starting to show we've got kids, boy, and we want to have more kids and that's starting to show that there's something else that needs to kind of take care of the expenses and just what I'm making now in the job.

How long have you been married? We've been married about three years now and she's funny enough she's actually a German citizen with a green card and so there's it's funny I talked to her about finances and stuff and there seems to be a disconnect where obvious things to me are not so obvious to her and I see it as from her German background it's like very different there and there's not you know not as much of a her fan her German family is in Brennan Texas part of the German family yeah she's got family all over the world but the her sister who she's very close to, they were her sponsors coming over. I met her through her family, and so I ended up marrying her, but we're close to her family who's here in Brenham. Yes, sir.

Her family is her sister? Her sister and her brother-in-law. They own a property in Brenham. That's the whole family hold? No. She's got a mom in Germany that's what I'm asking why in the heck you're staying in Brennan her sister is why you're staying in Brennan it's not exactly her mom and you got the grandkids you're running off with this is very true very true her background with their family is very rough, a lot of bad stuff.

Yeah, okay. Her sister was her mother, acting mother kind of thing. Okay. So here's, you know, you guys are just going to sit down and talk about, okay, these things all don't go together. There's not a $90,000 job for me here right if you are in agreement that I need to get a different job you are saying we need to move closer to Houston so instead of being ten minutes from your sister you're gonna be 45

minutes from your sister and I'm gonna have a 30 minute commute you're gonna move between the two right sure yeah that's reasonable yeah absolutely but if you can't communicate that kind of basic stuff you got other issues like marriage issues oh no yeah and and that's it's not so much she's willing to move no No, she's not. That's why you called me. She's a faithful as a wife, but she also has the I didn't say she was unfaithful. You called and said she's unwilling to move, but we're in agreement that I need a new job. That's exactly what you said right here. I heard you.

Right. Yeah. Okay. So, so quit changing the story. And if she can move across the world, I think she can move an hour away from her. Okay. You can visit her on the weekends. Yeah. So I think there needs to be some compromise here. Yeah. I mean, and again, I'm not saying move to freaking New York city. You're, you're moving closer to Houston where you have a 30 minute commute instead of an hour and a half. And then she, when she sees her sister on the weekend for god sakes you drive an hour over there I mean you know it's this is not he wants to be in he wants to be a rocket scientist so here we go I'm kidding I'm kidding it just flies through my head almost said it but no I mean that's that's

you know you you are in the hotbed if you wanna be in the space world. My God, you're in Houston. There's nowhere else other than Cape Canaveral that you can do better. So, but you're gonna not commute an hour and a half so she can be near her sister. That's asinine.

Think we're gonna FaceTime for a while. Yeah. It'll be okay. Whatever. I mean, again, I'm not suggesting you completely disconnect that you never see them again or whatever, but if you actually add up the number of hours that you spend with them during the week versus the number of hours you spend at work during the week, these two things are not compatible. So it's illogical. It's silly. And we're both in agreement that me working all the time as a carpenter, illogical it's silly and we're both in agreement that me working all the time as a carpenter my passion job I think he said yep is not working out so okay good so get you an engineer job up towards Houston move your butt up there and then

you know for God's sakes hire her a driver and send her down to us you know to the sister if you have to whatever you got to do it's not really not this is not hard it's not hard so you can't have this both ways you can't say oh you need to make more money we live in a dinky town that doesn't have a whole list of mechanical engineers now if there's mechanical engineering you can do remote in the oil field you might be able to do some remote work there I don't know how that works I was thinking about that then maybe maybe you can land that and I'll just shut up and you just stay there but you need to go find some actual jobs and make her turn them down not theory especially if it means a 50% pay increase

well that's what he's looking at that's what he's looking at 60 to 90 it's serious what he's looking at so yeah 60 to 90. It's serious. What he's looking at. So yeah, that's that's it. So all right. Open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five. There's a reason folks from an economics perspective, one of the classes I took way back in college when the dinosaurs roamed the earth and I was getting my real estate degree, urban economics and urban economics are different than rural economics. There is more opportunity in a metropolitan area with a larger population. There is also the downside of a higher expense for real estate typically and there's a downside of there's a dadgum many people and not all of them are fun. And so you know you

move to the city if you're gonna if you're gonna move into some careers and you know and if you're gonna move out towards the country you're gonna get cheaper real estate a more rural setting I love that personally but you're gonna have a commute in if you're gonna be involved in the economics of the opportunities that are available that's what he's finding so you got pull all the different levers and find the what works for you. He got a 5,000 person town. I don't know how big that town is he's in. I'm making this up. But I mean if you've got a 5,000 person town, it's different than a town of what was freaking Houston. 12 million or something?

I mean it's huge. Of course it takes seven hours to drive across the whole thing. Yeah, Brenham's got 17,000 people. Okay. Not a crazy big town. Yeah. There we go. Look at you with your quickness on the Google. This is the Ramsey Show. It's Cyber Monday and time is running out to grab best-selling hardcover books like The Total Money Makeover, Own Your Past, Change Your Future, and From Paycheck to Purpose for just $10, or audiobooks for only $4.99. No matter who you're shopping for this is your chance to give life-changing gifts that won't break the bank. But hurry, these Cyber Monday deals end tonight. So go to ramsysolutions.com slash store right now.

ramsysolutions.com slash store. The best way to build wealth is on purpose. Reporters often ask me, Dave, what's the number one mistake Americans make with their money? As if they think I'm going to say a single thing. Don't they ask you that? Oh yeah. That's like a classic. That's like a magic thing.

It's like a journalism question. They got that in first year journalism school. What's the best advice you've ever gotten yeah what's the best what's the best advice you give what's the number one thing the people I finally developed a really good answer you know what the number one mistake Americans make with their money they don't freaking pay attention hmm they just drive with their eyes closed and wonder why they hit the dad gum ditch you know I'm just gonna spend everything I make

and I'll get to retirement and go, I sure hope the government, which is well known for its ability to handle money, will take care of me. That's dumb. I'll just buy now, pay later, and swipe my life away and hope for the best. Just carna, carna, keep carna.

That's right. Keep carna, carna, carna, then karma. And affirm. I wanna be affirmed. I wanna be affirmed with karma. Karma. Then karma comes. Karma, karma. Oh, credit karma, karma credit karma. You're killing me here. I was buying a t-shirt with a smart Alex saying on it.

Can you imagine that they offered me payments on the T George? I can't, this is the problem. Okay. So let me tell you how you, how you build wealth. You pay attention. You're intentional. You make your money behave instead of wondering where it went. That's called one of the things you do is you do a budget. You sit down, you go, okay, I manage freaking $100,000 a year and I have no idea. That's dumb. If you work for somebody and that was your job, you get fired for being incompetent. If you're in the government, you get promoted. Well, we're not talking about that. You just get me mad. Now. Don't do that. Sorry. We're talking about real people,

not government people. These are not bureaucrats. These are humans and we just don't pay attention. Pay attention. Write it down. Agree on it with your spouse. Give every dollar an assignment before the month begins and then crack the freaking whip on those dollars and make them dance a jig so you end up with something out of it. I mean get the chair out and the whip you remember the old cartoon the lion tamer. There's money it's gonna eat your butt if you do not take care of it. You know why other people have more you know why the rich get richer and the poor get poorer because rich people keep doing rich people stuff you know rich people stuff is they pay freaking attention they learn about investments they invest they

they do a budget they agree on spending with their spouse and it keeps working and they keep doing it over and over and over and over and over again and you know you can't say thank God it's, oh God it's Monday and end up anything but broke, spend everything on the weekend. That's just short-sighted lack of vision. You need a written budget. This is why we named every dollar the world's best budgeting app, Every Dollar,

because you give every dollar an assignment, you make every dollar freaking behave. You can download Every Dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play, or click the link in the description if you're on podcast or YouTube by the way those of you listening to the show right this second this is the last segment in this hour before we move to another segment that last segment the third segment of

the show that's coming up in a few minutes is only available on the Ramsey Network app and it's completely free but if you haven't downloaded the Ramsey Network app. And it's completely free. But if you haven't downloaded the Ramsey Network app yet, you need to so you can get the third element of the show, third segment of the show every day. Video and audio. And you can search it by call, subject, and you can send us an email and all kinds of stuff. So download the Ramsey Network app for free in the app store download the Every Dollar app for free in the App Store see

now you're just all apt up as if you were at Applebee's or something and you just order the sampler platter got all the apps got all the apps I'm just saying sure I'm sure somewhere Robert Kennedy just passed out. Okay Abigail in Tallahassee Florida. Hey Abigail what's up? Hey I was just needing some help trying to get my husband to be on board with the debt snowball. We're about 70,000 in between a car loan and then like credit cards and other loans. And then we make like 113 together. So I've got it. I outlined the budget of how to get it. Like we can get this done in probably about, you know, two years.

But he just keeps like blocking me and I'm like, why? We don't, it's, I don't know why. Yeah, you do. He told you. We have a. You know him better than we do. What do you think is behind this? He didn't just say, I want to be broke. I'm going to block you.

He didn't say that. What did he say? Why didn't he want to do it? I, he just, when I tried to talk to him about it this weekend his response was well just hand me over the finances and we'll get separate accounts and I'll pay what I pay out of my paycheck and then you pay what you pay out of your paycheck so that was like that was the most recent reply okay that then basically he yes, we have a problem, but I have a different solution than you. Yeah, yeah.

That's different than he's blocking you. Well, he's didn't agree with you. And his solution is to Venmo you like a weird roommate situation. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Well, so here's the thing. How long ago did you start listening to our stuff? It's only been like a few weeks. That's what I thought. Okay. So here's what happened. You came running in all excited with a brand new thing with your hair on fire

and he went, oh god, she fell for a scam. She's joined a cult. and he went, Oh God, she fell for a scam. She's joined a cult. Didn't he? That's why you laughed. I got you. Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate your enthusiasm. I appreciate your enthusiasm, but you ruined it. Yeah. So what you need to do is go in and say, Hey, listen, I owe you an apology because you do, by the way, um, you had information that he didn't have and you tried to cram it down his throat And you didn't mean to you were just excited enthusiastic you found some hope for the first time and you and I don't blame me I'm happy you got excited. I'm glad we were able to do that for you

I also want to do it for him. Okay, and so let's start with I'm sorry. I went out this wrong. I really Need you. I know you love me and I know you care about our future, and I really need you to listen to what I've been learning and listen to this stuff, and then tell me what's wrong with it. And then turn on a YouTube debt-free scream, and turn on this segment of the podcast which will be posted today and that kind of stuff.

And then you know because what he is prescribing there is no data that says there is zero research that says what he is suggesting works. As a matter of fact there is a lot of research that says what he is suggesting won't work. But he is at least wanting to try something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we've never had everything separate. We've always had everything together. You don't want it to be separate.

Separate needs to be together and we need to be together. And I need you as my man to hear me and I need us to get aligned on where we're going because this is scaring me to death where we are. And separating everything makes me feel like a divorce. I know I don't want a divorce. And just start talking about this stuff and asking questions and draw him in. And because you know you just, he went up to a water fountain to get a drink, you turned on a fire hose. Because you were excited and I'm glad you're

excited don't misunderstand that happens a lot though and then if you're not careful you keep at it and you'll turn my name into a cuss word okay that's the next yeah yeah oh yeah that got cult leader over there that bald guy yeah and that's that's what happens it happens all the time and so which is kind of weird because very few cult leaders are actually bald. But the, most of them have really nice hair. It could be a wig, we don't know. But the, anyway, the, so what we'll do, let me give you every dollar, and I'm going to give you Financial Peace University for free as our gift. And then say, hey, let's open these up and watch one of these videos together and then you tell me if this is

right or not you tell me what's wrong with what they're saying because I I I got some hope out of this and I got really excited this is you talking yeah cuz hope is powerful girl it's. And so I'm so happy you got that but but he's not a bad guy And he really doesn't want a divorce He just you just swooped in there pretty heavy on him Yeah, yeah, so I think if you back off a little let's um Approach it calm. Yeah, don't take a machine gun into a fishing tournament, right? That's the idea here, right?

Don't spray and pray. That's not what we're doing. So we're actually going to use a little bit of finesse here. Finesse. You're the wife, you know what finesse means. Husbands don't know what that means. It's usually the husband. So you can do this.

This is the Ramsey Show. Music Hey, you're still here? What are you doing? You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey Network app, right? All you gotta do to finish the episode is search Ramsey Network in the App Store, Google Play Store, or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for free. Yep, you heard me right, for free. Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show. Bada bing, bada boom. All right, I'm getting out of here. Enjoy. We'll see you on the app.