The Ramsey Show - Don’t Become a Victim of Your Circumstances

Episode Date: January 23, 2025

💳 Share your thoughts and you could WIN a $500 Gift Card! 💸 Start taking control of your money in 2025 at our free livestream Ken Coleman & George Kamel answer your questions and discuss: "How do I get my girlfriend to move with me?" Buying a home with no credit score, "I live in New York and I'm miserable," "Should I divorce my spending addict husband?" "Are we paying off the mortgage too quickly" "My in-laws can't manage their finances and moved in with us." Support Our Sponsors: 🌱 Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp ◎ Get 10% off Byrna product bundles and more! 🏥 Learn more about Christian Healthcare Ministries 🏡 Get started today with Churchill Mortgage 🔒 Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe 🏦 Go to FAIRWINDS Credit Union for an exclusive account bundle! 🥗 Save 15% on your first Field of Greens order with code RAMSEY 💸 Learn more about opening a high-yield savings account with Laurel Road 💻 Visit NetSuite today to learn more 🗂️ Use promo code RAMSEY for 18% off at The Nokbox 💵 Learn more about Timothy Plan 🏛 Get started with YRefy or call 844-2-RAMSEY 🔐 Visit Zander Insurance for your free instant quote today! Next Steps 📱 Listen to the full episode for free in the Ramsey Network app. 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET or click here! 📈 Are you on track with the Baby Steps? Get a Free Personalized Plan 🎟️ Get Tickets to the Money & Relationships Tour 🏖️ For help with investing, get connected with a SmartVestor Pro.  💵 Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app! 💪 Invest with confidence! Get tickets to Investing Essentials Listen to more from Ramsey Network 🎙️ The Ramsey Show   🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 💰 George Kamel 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions is a paid, non-client promoter of SmartVestor Pros. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Hey guys, if you're ready to get ahead with money and start building wealth this year, don't miss our free take control of your money live stream. It's on January 23rd and you could win $4,000 just for signing up. You got nothing to lose. Go sign up right now at ramsysolutions.com slash live stream. Welcome to the Ramsey Show America. This is where we coach you to win in your life. We want you to win with your money, win in your profession, and win with your relationships. The phone number to jump in today is 88825-5225. 88825-5225.

Alongside George Campbell, who's looking natty and just looking sharp, man. The apparel today, the corduroy coat. We got a big event tonight, Ken, so I had to pull out all the stops. That's right. The live stream tonight, it's in the lobby right now. Rehearsals are happening as we speak. I hope everyone listening joins us. Oh, I like that too. It's in the lobby right now. Rehearsals are happening as we speak. I saw you up there. I hope everyone listening joins us.

Oh, I like that too. If you're listening to the show right now, you have no excuse not to join us. It's free. Go to ramsaysolutions.com slash live stream and you'll be entered to win some fish. What if they have plans tonight? Well, they can always rewatch it,

but if we sign up, we'll send you all the info. We'll get the email to you, the replay, all that good stuff and you'll be entered to win. That's what I wanna make sure of is that they can get to be a part of that. I'm Ken Coleman, by the info, we'll get the email to you, the replay, all that good stuff, and you'll be entered to win. That's what I wanna make sure of, is that they can get a, be a part of that. I'm Ken Coleman, by the way, and we're here together for you today. George will lead out on those money calls, and I wanna help you on the income side of things,

and we'll work together. So, let's get to it, George, you ready to go? I'm pumped. All right, Portland, Oregon is where we're gonna start. Charles is there. Charles, how can we help? Hey guys, thank you so much for taking my call. You bet, what's going on?

Hey, so I'm about 10 months away from graduating college. I wanna become a state trooper, like immediately after I graduate, and this would require that I move, the state would have the final say of where I would have to move. And my girlfriend who really likes her job, I'm trying to get her on the same page. Do you guys have any advice?

Where is she right now? Like, I get the same page thing, but what's the actual conversation, the latest status as to her emotion, her openness? Give us a better picture. Yeah, so we live together. She's super, super supportive of the idea of a becoming a state trooper. Um, but again, she really likes her job. So leaving, uh, our town that we live in is, uh, she's not excited about it, but

I think she is willing to do it for about two years. Oh, she gave you an ultimatum two years? That's how long the state would require that I stay in one spot. Aha and then after two years would you have the flexibility or the freedom to say all right we want to move back to the town you're in now? Yes sir yeah that's how yeah you can request a transfer after two years Well, listen I've been married almost 27 years Based on what I'm hearing it feels like she is on the same page

She's not thrilled about it, but she's willing and I think that willingness she gets determined willing You know and it sounds like she is unless I'm missing something Yeah, I think I think you're totally right. So then take it. So it's almost like you needed some confidence today. Absolutely. Yeah. Well listen, the more you waver with her willingness, it could affect her willingness. And so in this situation, the fact that you're a young couple, you're engaged to be married, you guys are playing house

already, you know, and so you're... Have you proposed yet? I have not proposed, but it's in the works. I must have seen the works. I just assumed that. Thank you, George, for correcting that. But I just think the fact that she said, all right, I'm willing to do it for the two years, she's not thrilled about it, this is a sacrifice that couples have to learn to make. And I would tell you, there will be a season or two or three, who knows how many seasons, that you're gonna have to sacrifice for her as well.

So this is a good woman on the surface here that she's willing to do this because she really likes what she does. And to the extent that you can be supportive of her and help her figure out, how can I do something that's very similar to the work that I love right now in this new town, that would be great too. But George, I would not waffle on her willingness.

I would say, okay, thank you sweetheart, let's go. Two years from now we come back. What do you think? I'm in for this plan. I'm just, I'm wondering, does she need you financially? Are you supporting her in any way or are your finances completely separate? Yeah, so right now my, we live together in an apartment and she works full time and I, I'm getting supported by a 529 plan because I am a student. Okay.

So you need her more than she needs you. She has money. Okay, I'm just wondering, how far away is this new town you'd be moving to? Is it 45 minutes or five hours? It totally depends on what the state says. I haven't gone through the process yet of- Okay, there's a lot of unknowns.

So what I would do is say, hey, I don't know where I'm gonna end up. What are you thinking when this does happen? Are you gonna live on your own and stay here for a while for a season? And we try that out. And if it becomes too unbearable, then you can move closer

or do you want to wait it out till I'm stationed, planted somewhere and then we figure it out. I don't know that I'd drag her with the ultimatum of you're either coming with me or it's over to this new phase because who knows what's going to happen. We hear the stories of people who move for a significant other they're not married to and things don't work out, and now there's extra resentment because she moved for your job that didn't pan out and now it affected her career and her life. So I don't sense that.

I don't sense that that's happening because he's calling us. He already has the green light. From her to say, sure, I'll go. Am I right? It's a reluctant I'll go. I think Charles is a little bit scared. Should I do this?

Is that right, Charles? Yes, sir. I love her very much and I really want her to be very happy. Well, the fact is she's a good woman and you're a good dude. The reason that you're thinking through this is because you really do have a sense of the compromise that she's making. And I think George is right. I think you guys as a couple need to figure out what our future is. You need to put a ring on her finger soon and you guys need to start playing this out. What does this look like? What kind

of money does she need to make? What's the job market look? She's got a head start on this. So the fact that we have a general idea of what she loves helps. What we don't know is your location and when will you know that? Before I start the Academy so I'll graduate with my bachelor's in about 10 months and then I'll be working on the application process in my last quarter. So she has a, so I'm trying to figure out what her... About a year lead time on this? How much lead time will she have when you can say to her hey we're moving to this town? So yeah, I'll know before the Academy, and the Academy is about 16 weeks. So it's not a six-month lead time, but it's enough time to do some work and figure this

out. And I think that you guys got to start this marriage with this, hey, we are going to bend together so that we don't break. And she's showing a willingness to bend. And so you want to help her get back into the work that she loves, return that favor. And I think if you do this with a lot of sensitivity, but also with confidence, then I think you guys will be okay.

Sensitive confidence. That's how I've always thought about you, Ken. I like it. Well, I'm trying to get to the sensitive part. I'm working on it, George. Yeah, well, you know, I don't want to get hokey. There's an element of, hey, if it's meant to be, it's meant to be. If you live apart for six months, you're going to survive. And so if it's 40 minutes away, she doesn't need to uproot her whole life

and job for this for a season. That's kind of where I'm going. I agree, but they may be married. So if they're married, she's coming with. I'd hope so. I think within these 10 months, let's figure out a plan. Let's put a ring on it. I'm expecting. I am expecting him to put a ring on her finger. And at this point, we're moving together and starting the life off that way.

So but anyway, appreciate the call, Charles. I think you're a good young man and appreciate the fact that you want to serve your state. Yeah. And if I ever get pulled over in the Oregon area, I hope Charles is there. I know you were the guy. Don't give me a ticket. Sir, sir, by any chance, is your name Charles?

Yeah, I like that. All right, quick break here on the Rangers show. We'll be right back. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 different answers. Economic growth or recession? Business taxes will go up or down. AI will help us work or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball. That's why more than 40,000 businesses have future-proofed

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excited that you all are joining us today triple eight eight two five five two two five let's get back to the phones timothy is uh... joining us in eerie pennsylvania timothy how can we help hi ken how do you How are you guys? We're having a blast today. What's going on with you?

Great, man. Well, I appreciate everything you guys do. I've been following you since I was 18. I just turned 19 not too long ago. So I'm freaking out right now. Uh-oh. What are you freaking out about? Everybody likes to share a little bit of details uh, details of, you know, their input on life and everything that's going on. And I'm really, really, really trying to get like, you know, a place to live. I'm going to be proposing to my girl soon. So I'm trying to figure out whether I'm renting or buying. I'd really like to buy, but I I'm trying to follow you guys as much as I can.

And like, I, I don't want to have a credit score or a credit card, but you know, I've called two places and they've given me two different answers. I've tried with Churchill and there's just a lot going on. So some advice I'd be great. My guess is you get some cooks in the kitchen that are on the family side and friend side weighing in as well as my guess? Yeah.

Okay. What is the urgency to buy a house now at 19? Yeah. Yeah, like I said, I'm proposing to my girl soon. So that's the main one. I mean, I have like a year to figure this all out, but I'm just trying to figure out this. Is there a law in Pennsylvania that says you can't rent if you're married?

No, there's no law. No, no, I just don't know. Like I wanna be putting as much as I can into savings, right, so I don't know how long I should be renting for, if I should, like I know I'm okay to do with that, but. Let me free you, there's no timeline for this. The right time to buy a house is when you're financially ready.

If that's at 19, you're crushing it. If that's at 25, you're crushing it. And so I just want to free you from this idea that this has to happen now and I've got a proposal in the next two months and I have to buy a house five months later. I can feel that on you of just the aggression toward your goals and I want to redirect that towards a healthier approach. Yeah, and Timothy, just full disclosure, my wife and I spent three years in an apartment, one in one city, two in another city before we bought. And it was because of what George said, we were renting until we were able to buy a home.

So tell us about your financial situation. Sounds like you're debt free. Yeah, yeah, I'm debt free. I'm working for an amazing company that they'll pay for me to go to school if I want to. I'm going to pursue a career in like home adjusting and they'll pay for me to do that too. Great. What's your income? Income right now is about like $35,000. I work two jobs. I work at a restaurant.

Okay. And how much do you have in savings? Savings right now, I have about 15 grand in my regular savings fund and then I have four grand in retirement and a couple thousand in my emergency fund. Okay what's the 15 for? Is that for a ring or other stuff? No, no that's for that's just for the house. I actually have a fund for ring. Okay, but you don't have a fully funded emergency fund. We got this twisted. We got to get the emergency fund first then we can start saving for the house, I actually have a fund for rain. So I'm all good with that. But you don't have a fully funded emergency fund. We got this twisted. We gotta get the emergency fund first,

then we can start saving for the house. Okay. So how much would a three to six months, yeah, what's three to six months of expenses for you? Right now, I know it's lower, but I mean, right now it's about like a thousand and some change a month. Okay, well let's pretend like we're in the real world.

You got rent to pay, you got bills. As you move into this next phase, let's call it 15 grand as your emergency fund and you have four grand for your down payment. Is that more fair? Sure, we could do that. And we also need to buy a ring for this lovely lady, right? Right.

But he says he's got a ring fund. How much is in that? Yeah. Yeah, I've been saving up for that one for a while. I have about like 3,000 ready for that. And that's all ready to go. You're crushing it. Okay.

So here, if I was in your shoes and I've been in your shoes, here's what I would do. I would pause and I would rent. Maybe it's for a year. Maybe you renew for two years and you stack up a nice big down payment as you get to be married and experience all of that joy and chaos, cause it's gonna be a wild ride.

So to add on home ownership on top of that, that's a lot at your age. But I love where you're going with it. And I also know you don't have a credit score because you're debt free and you're saying, are you worried about not being able to buy a house because of that? Yeah, I'm terrified.

I like they, there's, you know, I mean, I keep hearing stuff like people keep telling me like higher interest rates for, you know, even though I can do manual underwriting, but then they'll be like, yeah, I expect higher interest rates, but I don't know. Okay, can I ask you this? Have any of them actually done it?

No. Okay, can I tell you this? I've actually done it. So would you trust my experience over theirs? Jordan, I trust you in a day. That means the world. Yeah. So let me tell you this,

there are a few hoops to jump through, one being verification of income. You have that for 12 to 24 months? Yeah, coming up on it. Great, you'll need rental payment history, on time rental payments for at least 12 months. to 24 months? Yeah, coming up on it. Great. You'll need rental payment history, on-time rental payments for at least 12 months. You'll have that once you've rented, right? Okay.

You have a 12-month history of your bank statements and saving statements. Your debt-to-income ratio is amazing because you don't have any. And then you have something else you're paying for, like a cell phone bill or an insurance bill regularly? Yeah, insurance. Great. That's all it takes to do manual underwriting. else you're paying for, like a cell phone bill or an insurance bill regularly? Yeah, insurance. Great. That's all it takes to do manual underwriting.

So anyone else who's saying otherwise has not done it. And if you call Churchill, I'm sure they told you that. They said, hey, you do need on-time rental payments. Was that the one that threw you off because you didn't have that? Yeah, yeah. And they suggested that what I could do is I could pay a little bit of money, how to track record to my mom and dad and like pay them money. Exactly.

They could put that in the savings account form. You could pay your parents 400 bucks a month for 12 months and that could count. Yeah. And so just rest assured, it's not as scary as you think. The rates aren't going to be astronomically higher. I've done it myself. I had a great rate when I did this back in 2019. It was a very easy process. Churchill makes it super easy.

They'll walk you through everything you need to know. But I would not let that be the stress point. You got enough on your plate right now. I would continue saving. I'd propose, get married, pay cash for the wedding, rent for a year or two, and then you guys will have a fat stack of money and you'll be able to do it from a place of strength.

And the key there, Timothy, is what George just laid out for you. The do it from a place of strength. And the key there, Timothy, is what George just laid out for you. The time it's going to take to save up the down payment, the right kind of down payment, you're gonna have all of those qualifications taken care of. So deep breath, exhale,

and don't listen to all the voices that wanna throw an opinion at you. George just gave you the absolute truth. There is no other opinion you need to be considering. Period. Okay. You got it? Yeah. Would you recommend what they were saying with like, you know, living at home for a little bit and then giving them money? Or would you say like, get on my own?

I would, I mean, you have a salary. I'd say it's healthy and independent for you to get on your own. If you wanna stay home until you have the next step of proposal or engagement, that's totally fine. But I would start making payments to your parents just so that you're not caught off guard, you know, come six months from now. But I do think it's gonna take more time

to get a down payment, you know? 15 grand is not gonna cut it in today's housing market. And so we've got tons of resources for you, Timothy. Log on to ramsysolutions.com slash real estate. We have an entire home hub for you there. And I'll even give you Ramsey Plus, which will include my video course on how to buy a home the right way.

And watch that, you can watch it with your soon to be fiance and go, hey, this is going to be on our radar in the next few years. I'd love to watch this and get prepared and see what you think of it. And Timothy, the only thing I'd add is I don't want you to take some of this nervous energy and let's put it into making more money.

You're working two jobs and pulling down 35,000. I wanna see that change. You need to be getting more money for your time. And so put all that energy into increasing your income right now. You have everything else under control, and that focus on making more money will help with your nerves. George gave you a lot of clarity. And the clarity that George gave you should give you confidence now.

Right? So we want confident Timothy going out there. He's got a plan, and let's go make more money, because more money allows us to advance the plan quicker. That'll increase your savings rate, help you get that down payment faster. So it's a great call, Timothy. Thank you for that question. You're far beyond most Americans at 19, so I want to encourage him there. And to that, the interest rate question. My interest rate, I actually ran the numbers with the folks at Churchill, and they told me if you do our plan, 15 15 year fixed rate loan with at least 10% down

you will get the same rate as someone with excellent credit. So he disproved it with facts but you know people don't care about facts in the face of their feelings a lot of the times. Well it's just people don't know what they're talking about and so that's why they come here and George just dispels the fake news folks. Buck the system. I'm all about it. There it is so that's why they come here and George just dispels the fake news, folks. Buck the system. There it is. That's why he wrote the best-selling book, Breaking Free from Broke. Go get it. Listen to the man. He's wearing corduroy. That's credibility. That's all you need to know. It's all the credibility you need. All right, quick break. More of The Ramsey Show coming right up. The Jamesy Show coming right up. The statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't

have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're not going to die or something? Well, I used to be one of those guys, I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. And I immediately went and got term life insurance. That's a gut punch. For decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse.

They've lost somebody important to them. They don't know what to do next. Terrifying. You're going to have a crisis here. You know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. These are the two options. It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance. Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I

trust. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. Music Welcome back to The Ramsey Show alongside George Campbell. I'm Ken Coleman. The phone number is 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. What are your money questions? You need to know what to do with it, you need to make more of it. Well, you got the duo today. We want to help you make more money and keep it. Let's go to New York City where Rob joins us. Rob, how can we help today?

Hey guys, appreciate you taking my call. I guess I've got kind of like a decent problem to have, but it's kind of a problem nonetheless. I think I've kind of been, I'm 25, I've saved about like 200 grand, I don't know what for, and I'm making about like 120 a year, but I kind of like, I kind of like live like a rat because I don't eat too much. Like every time I move, I get a place with a cheaper rent and then I've gotten promoted every year I've been there and I make more money. But for me, it's kind of like, I've been very removed from the present. I feel like I, I don't know why I'm saving the money. I don't, I'm kind of from out in the sticks.

I don't really like New York city. Like I like fishing and eating wild plants and stuff. I kind of don't have much reason to be in New York, but it's a really good job. But I'm not present. And I don't- Rob, I feel you. I'm so glad you called today. I feel like I walked into the studio today in large part to get to talk to you.

Oh, word. This is, first of all, kudos. The first half of your description of you, George is like, you're the poster child for George, but then you start talking about eating wild plants and fishing and then you lost him. But the fact that you've saved $200,000 at 25, George. You haven't let lifestyle creep crush you. I love that.

You've stayed a very sane person. That's right. And you're self-aware enough at 25 to go, this ain't it. Most people, Rob, it takes 20, 30 years of a career to finally admit that, so I'm proud of you. So, Rob, you're a young guy, and you may never have heard this phrase before, but I'm going to introduce it to you because I think it's a great metaphor for where you are. There's an old phrase called the golden handcuffs and it's referring to somebody who had been

in a company for a long time. They make good money, they got great benefits, strong retirement, and they don't want to be there, but they feel the golden handcuffs because it's good money and there's an emotional handcuff there that says if I were to leave this it would be foolish. Those who don't have what I have would think that I'm crazy and I think you're experiencing that rarely enough at the age of 25. Does that feel right to you? Yeah exactly and like you guys also mentioned the term lifestyle creep, but for me it's kind of like maybe I should have and I can be like a little bit more present. I think you should probably enjoy life a little bit more. But the good news is George is on

today and George can speak to that because I am in a fun way. I play with you a little bit on this because George does very well, but he really is the most frugal person and he will say things sometimes in conversation. We sit right next to each other and he will say things sometimes where I literally look at you and I go, bro, like you've earned it, live a little bit.

So I want you to speak to that mindset in a minute, but I wanna first focus on this biggest issue. Rob, you don't need Georgeianized permission today, but I think you need to hear us say it is okay for you to leave New York in a really good paying job to go do something somewhere else that is more in line with the way you want to live, and you can still make that $120,000 and more. And I think just acknowledging that, I hope will set you free today. That doesn't mean you leave today, and it doesn't mean you walk in and resign and just go, weeee! But if there's anybody who could, you could, because you got $200,000

in the bank. That's financial peace right there. And so my question is, what's the work that you're doing? What field are you in? So I work in like financial services. I work in risk management at one of like the brokers in the city. Very prestigious is my guess. Yeah, and that's like another thing. It's like, you know, that probably attracted me to it. And I do like my job. Like I actually, as far as jobs go, like I enjoy it, but I also kind of burn myself out. Again, I kind of like pathologize the kind of like live to work thing. I have words and you know all of that.

You know why? You're trying to prove something to somebody. Probably to myself. There you go. Hey, by the way, the voice in our head is the most damaging. The hardest person to please. Yeah, so here's what I would say in short order. You enjoy doing work in the finance field. So there are lots of ways you can do that somewhere else where you're close to fishing,

where you're in an environment that you enjoy and the hobbies and the things that you need to be healthy distractions from this voice that you're dealing with that says, I've got to prove, I've got to prove, I've got to prove. And boy, you're talking to a guy who is currently in recovery from that kind of stuff. Okay? I'm as serious as I can be. I get it. I've been living my life with a chip on my shoulder because of something that happened

to me when I was 14. I relate to that. Listen, I'm in the middle of recovery. I'm being as vulnerable as I can be. I'm uncomfortable right now, James, how vulnerable I'm being. But Rob, so what has helped me is to go, wait a second, there's this voice in my head that is constantly asking, am I good enough? So I don't know what your voice is,

but I think at this stage of your life at 25, the fact that you resonated with something that I said, and it's in your story, and I'm not going to unpack that on the air, I think you know what it is. But can I tell you, I would go get some therapy and dig on that now at 25. And I think that will be the bridge that you build mentally and emotionally

that will lead you out of New York, lead you to where you need to be and doing similar work that you're doing. And I think you'll be more fulfilled than you can ever imagine. George, I want you to weigh in on that because you also have a unique point of view. And I think you'll be more fulfilled than you can ever imagine. George, I want you to weigh in on that because you also have a unique point of view and I think you resonate with this as well. As you guys are talking, Rob, I

think you've got somewhat of a flat tire. Your financial life and your career life, you're crushing it. I would assume, prove me wrong, that relationships might be struggling, social life might be struggling, spiritual life might be struggling, and I think leaning more into those areas right now can help you realize, oh, I actually like New York, I like this job, I just needed a better community. I needed to get plugged into a local church. I don't know what that is for you, but I realized that at 25 you kind of have this quarter life crisis of like, what did I, I just followed this path that was laid before me and here

I am and they told me it would be amazing and it's not. That's great insight. You know, that's a great insight Rob. Maybe it's not New York. Maybe it's just you and functioning in New York, but I just for a fun exercise. If you could snap your fingers right now and you're doing similar work and you're making similar money with a nice path to making more money. Is there any place in the US that you would just go, okay, if I could transplant from where I am to here, Ken, I think that would be a fun adventure to see if that was awesome.

What comes to mind? So my favorite states are Vermont and Maine. The thing is, I think I could go an hour up the train line from New York and be like, I've been up to Tarrytown town and like sleepy hollow up there. And it's awesome. Like it's trees and rivers, all that junk, um, not junk, but all that stuff. And, um, my, my, my concern is like, do I overdo it or underdo it?

So I felt like I've been not present for like five years after college or four years, whatever. And now I'm kinda like, do I like yo-yo and like live in a van for a year and like start a YouTube channel and go fishing? No, no, here's the deal. So Rob, the answer is never to yo-yo. And when any of us yo-yo, we're not healthy.

And never YouTube in the RV, please. Just keep it to yourself. You know what I think you oughta do? And I'm gonna be super, super practical here, George. Yeah. Just keep it to yourself. You know what I think you ought to do? And I'm going to be super, super practical here, George. Please tell me what you think. Um, I think you need to spend a weekend. You got all kinds of money. I'd like to see you rent a cabin up there in sleepy hollow and see if you can find Ichabod crane while you're up there. You know, the headless horseman,

the whole nine yards, full hatchet, full cast away for a long weekend. Yeah. Go fish, go hunt and practice this idea of being present. I think you self-diagnose pretty well, George. That's what I'm I think he knows he's not present, and I think he needs to feel something, you know, and that's when you see is scratching the itch enough. Or is this a full time move? I need to get out of the city completely forever. That's right. And we can't decide that for you, Rob, but I hope we've given you enough next tactical

steps to get there. Yeah. Rob, listen to your heart. I'm just telling you, listen to your heart, listen to your heart, and then engage the brain. The logic, it can move on its own, but the heart and the head must be connected on big moves like this. But I think you're a sharp young man and I think you're going to do great things. This is the Ramsey show.

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contained in the prospectus or summary prospectus available at TimothyPlan.com. Read carefully before investing, mutual funds distributed by Timothy partners Ltd and ETFs distributed by Forsyth Fund Services LLC Welcome back to the Ramsey show alongside George camel I'm Ken Coleman the phone number to jump in is triple eight eight two five five two two five Let's go to jump in is spending addiction. Oh no. What can you describe that briefly to us? Yeah, it's super easy. He spends and spends and spends. He has had the emptiest 401k three times to pay off debt that he has accru my. He takes out consolidation loans without my consent.

He bought a car without my consent. The payment for that is almost $1,000 a month. Oh my goodness. And it just goes and goes and goes. How long has this been happening? Oh, years. And this entire time you have always said, stop doing this, I'm not in favor of this, this scares me. Yep. He has no concept of it. Have you guys been to therapy? Yep. And? And he won't go. Well then you haven't been. Do you go on your own? So I've been going and then

I started doing the snowball method. So I have been spending the last five years like doing anything that's associated with me. And I have like simultaneously been paying off and saving and I've paid off so far $31,751.84. I have $19,391.17 in cash saved. Do you have separate accounts? Yes. $9,608.14 in investment saved. And I have $6,005.43 left in debt, like on credit cards.

Pay off your debt today with the money you have. Okay. And do you have any debt that's in your name beyond that, or is the rest in his name only? The rest is only in his name. Okay, so that's gonna be his problem. My fear is always the stuff that he's buying, like cars and all this stuff,

because they were obtained during marriage, am I going to get stuck with these? Your name's not on there. So you're not gonna be liable for that loan. Okay. So here's the deal. You've already separated finances. This is heading clearly towards divorce because I can't.

Does he know this? Is someone sustainable? I've already explained this to him. Is he in La La Land? Like does he shut down when you bring any of this up? Yes. Okay. He thinks that because he is the breadwinner and he makes all the money and because I'm on disability

that he should be able to spend whatever he wants whenever he wants. So he doesn't understand that his decisions affect you financially, emotionally, merrily? Okay. He's made that very clear on where he stands and he's not going to change. He's not participating in therapy. So I think we've got some real clear gates that you have walked through here and I think certainly separation is of order here to see if there's a wake up call.

And that's why I mean I've gone through, like I've been doing therapy so like that's not, this is not like I need to go to therapy, I need to like... Oh no I'm sorry you're right I think yeah but I was when I asked that question I was talking about you two as a couple to see if we've actually fought for this. Yeah, no, do I go? I know, you can't do it for me. And it's to the, you know, that whole, you can lead a horse to water. Can't make them drink.

So we're past that part. So I've just been trying to figure out, how do I separate and insulate myself from that? And then with what I have saved and what I have like investment wise, like in theory, I know that a judge or whatever would maybe do some type of spousal support, but I know that's not guaranteed and it's not for forever, but I have an income

of $1,054 a month from disability. And that's my question. Does your disability prohibit you from being able to make a steady income? I think I can make like $600 a month or something. Why? Because you'll lose the disability payment? How much is the disability payment? Yeah, but you, hold on a second, but you missed my question Jessica. I'm saying, is there an end to this physical challenge that you will be able to get through

through medical care or is this a, I'm trying to understand what you can actually do. Forget the benefit payment. Oh no, it's permanent disability. So you are unable to work from home, do a remote job and make and work 40 hours a week? Correct. Okay, that's what I wanted to understand. So you've got it, this is George, this is a fixed and a very low fixed income. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Like I've had five separate spine surgeries, like just that part of me. I'm so sorry. I'm a mess.

So sorry, Jessica. And I've accepted that. I wish I could have my rose-colored glasses on and tell you the three steps to solving all of this. I can't change people. I don't have the magic wand. And so if you've made it very clear of, hey, this is what it's gonna take for this marriage to work and he's unable to fulfill that, I would be talking to an attorney and figuring out how do

I at least protect myself? How do I begin a phase of separation so that you don't get dragged down with him? And I would say, Jessica, George told you, I hope you caught it. Pay off the debt today, your debt. Go ahead and do that. I know that cash is very attractive sitting in that savings account, but one of the best things you can do to protect yourself on a very low fixed income is to have no debt. So I'm glad she has that, right, George?

I mean, that's what we want. We want to- Saving grace. Quickly. Get that out now before your brain talks you out of it. Reduces your expenses so that you're gonna be able to hopefully survive off of your fixed income, even if there isn't spousal support. That's where I would go sit down and make a budget for yourself

based on here's what my expenses would be if I was doing this on my own. Yeah, man. So sorry. Tough, tough call. Today's question of the day is brought to you by WhyRefi. WhyRefi refinances defaulted private student loans. Defaulted means when the borrower can't make the required payments. So if that's you and your private student loan, contact WIREFI. They can offer a low fixed rate loan built for you. Go to wirefi.com slash Ramsey today. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. It may not be available in all states.

All right. Today's question comes from Camilla in Hawaii. My husband and I are on baby steps four and six. We have no kids. He's in the military and I'm a lawyer. Our gross annual income is $250,000 and we have no debts except our mortgage of $350. We have a fully funded emergency fund and we invest 15% of our income and we still have $3,000 left over at the end of every month. Is it a mistake to put all the extra money

towards paying off the house early? I'm wondering if we should be investing a portion of it and taking a more balanced approach. Now that's a fun question of the day, isn't it? Really fun. So here's the deal. Do you have to throw every single penny at the house? No.

Baby steps four and six, you're moving from intensity to intentionality. I'm a nerd, I might be throwing all of it towards the house. Oh, is it, no question. And have a go. If that's you, every dime is going. But you also might wanna go, we haven't taken a vacation in five years,

we should probably save up for that. So what I would do is set up sinking funds for things that you actually enjoy, like a vacation. Or hey, it's really time to upgrade that car. We're in four and six, we make 250 grand, we don't have any debt with the mortgage, let's enjoy life and upgrade a little bit with a reasonable approach. And that's where the sinking funds and the budget and planning for that fund money help

me let loose of the reins of, I gotta pay all the, every penny should be going towards this. You don't need to live like you're on fire, because nothing's on fire here. But I would set a goal and say, hey, if we put a grand extra on the mortgage, we'll be done with this five years early. Let's make set a goal and say, hey, if we put a grand extra on the mortgage, we'll be done with this five years early. Let's make that a goal. The extra two grand, let's put towards these other things for now. And you can always change it as you enter different seasons of life.

A quick follow-up question for new folks that are joining us all the time. We have so many people joining us all the time that are new to the show, George. When you say sinking funds, are those separate savings accounts or is it all just clearly earmarked in one savings account? I like to set them up separately. So there's a car savings account and we're going to put 500 bucks a month into that account. That helps delineate it so you don't go, oh, there's a big pile of money for Lord knows what. That's where it gets dangerous. And you don't have to have an Excel spreadsheet for that when you've got the separate account.

Nope. And you can set it up in your every dollar budget. I love throwing George the questions like that. I get nervous sometimes. Trying to get in the mind of the people. One of the people wanna know. I know one of these days you're gonna catch me, Coleman. I don't think so. I think you're too smart. All right, fun hour.

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Just go to Berna.com slash Dave to learn more. That's B-Y-R-N-A dot com slash Dave. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Cole and George Campbell is alongside and we are here to help you win with your money, win in your profession and win in your profession, and win in your relationships. 888-825-5225 is the phone number, 888-825-5225. Chris is going to start us off in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Chris, how can we help? Hi. Thanks for having me on the show. So, recently, my in-laws have moved back in with us for a second time. They've made plenty of poor

financial decisions and again, wound themselves back up living with us again as of the beginning of this month. And we're kind of trying to figure out what we can do to, you know, we tried helping them and they don't really want our help. What was the attempt? Describe the attempt to help. Yeah, so without providing any financial help to them, we have offered to sit down and help them with the budget. My wife and I have taken the financial peace courses. We're trying to, they did actually say they're gonna attend it with me as we are going to

it reattend it again. So they're interested in it. We'll see if it happens. I'm in school for finances, so I feel like I'm pretty decent at making a budget so I'm trying to help them with that and they shut us down immediately and get pretty upset with us. Why did they shut down? I think it's just they you know they struggled with it for so long and they don't feel like they need the help and they can figure it out on their own. Well then have them move out.

Why are you enabling them? You're right. If they can do it on their own, say, hey, we've been happy to help. Sounds like you guys have it figured out. Best of luck out there. Sometimes that's the best thing you can do for someone even though it feels harsh in the moment.

I agree, and Chris, I have a question. Did they ask to stay with you or did your wife offer? They kind of assumed at first, and then my wife finally did offer, but under temporary circumstances of, hey, we can help you for like a month, get you situated, get you going. So we're still, we're coming up at the end of that month.

It doesn't seem like they're gonna get out. They recently refinanced a payday loan, refinanced their car. Are they both working? My father-in-law works and his take home comes out to about 60,000 a year. And so is the mother-in-law able to work? Does she have a past work history?

She is able to work. She is able to work, yes. But she's just not. She's just putzing around the house. So it sounds like there really were no conditions of them living here other than, hey, let's aim for a month. Yeah.

I would have a lot of strings attached with this. When this happened last time, how long did they stay? And was there a same kind of a deal? This is a certain amount of time or did there was that not the case? Right, so when they moved last time, they kind of followed us when we relocated across the state because they wanted to be closer to grandkids. They had a house, they couldn't make payments on it and move at the same time. So they decided just to let it foreclose and moved in for a couple months so they could find a new place here after their foreclosure of their house. If you said to your wife today, hey babe, I think I need to be the

man of the house. I know they're your parents, but this is, I'm the man of the house here. To a lot of people that may sound archaic, but I'm gonna stick with it George And you said to her I'd like to have a respectful conversation But say hey the month is coming up we agreed to a month and we think that you guys need to move out It's best for everybody and we can't we've tried to help you've met it with resistance And I'm enabling you some form of that speech in Chris's words. If you suggested that to her, how would she react? Obviously, I think she would be upset in the fact that it's her parents. She doesn't want

to just throw them out, but she has come to understand that we're enabling them by doing this. They're not willing to accept our help, even if they were to stay longer, but allow us to help them with a budget so they can get going in the right direction, it wouldn't be as bad. But the fact that they won't even allow us to help, I definitely think she would understand that. All right. But my point in asking that was, if she's not comfortable with you doing it, is she

comfortable doing it? And we brought that up, and she's getting a lot more comfortable with you doing it, is she comfortable doing it? And we brought that up and she's getting a lot more comfortable with it. Then let her, and I have... That's what I would do, I'd let her lead but I would keep saying babe I'm here to support you, you got to have this conversation. If you're not comfortable I'll be the bad guy. But you've got to kind of, you really got to keep that thing going. You cannot, because it's gonna end up affecting your relationship. It probably already has and so she needs to be leading, because it's gonna end up affecting your relationship. It probably already has. And so she needs to be leading this, it's her parents.

And so for the son-in-law to get involved, it's just too sticky. Unless she's not willing, that's why I threw that out there. It sounds like she knows, they're not gonna care what she has to say. And so that can be a conversation you guys have together, the four of you, and say, hey, we love you guys.

We wanna help you get back on track, here's what it's gonna take, here's the conditions, we want you to be financially independent, you're gonna start paying rent, we're gonna show you how to budget, you're gonna take FPU, and we're gonna help you get out of this thing, but it's not gonna be by bailing you out financially,

it's by showing you the steps, you've gotta be willing to do the work, otherwise, this situation can't work. And it's not out of- I think it's already... Sorry, George, to interrupt. Cruelty. I apologize. I think that things... I want to point this out, and tell me if you disagree, because I want Chris to hear this.

I think his wife needs to hear this. I don't see a scenario where this doesn't really ruffle their feathers. It sounds like the parents are like, look, leave us alone, we'll figure it out on our own. Obviously they don't know how to, and they're not interested in leaving any time soon. And there is a sense of entitlement. This is now not an entitled, spoiled teenager. These are entitled adults.

That's scary. Who aren't mature in their finances, and they are leveraging their parental position over their daughter. And I don't see how this goes well. Well, it's unfair, it's manipulative, it's immature. My point is that I think this is a rip the bandaid off. Respectfully, I don't mean like, you know, slash and burn, but I don't see how this goes well at all, other than it frees up Chris and his wife and creates a boundary that needs to be in place. Do you agree with that?

Absolutely. I don't think they should be living with them. I understand you guys tried it, you tried to help him once. I think at this point, he makes good money, he can figure it out rent, he's gonna have to figure out these payday loans and you can always be there to support with resources and say, hey, show up to this course with me, show up to this course.

But intermingling them with your personal life and your own house, I think that's not going to work anymore. And you know what's interesting too, George, that I heard, I appreciate that Chris and his wife wanted to help him do a budget, but you know what? Showing somebody how to do a budget is not enough. If they don't want to do it, no amount of instruction or... Yeah, they're not experiencing enough pain right now because they're living rent-free. But when you need a roof over your head, mama's going to work. She has no option. Oh yeah, what is she doing?

And so I don't think this is going to lead to them actually living on the streets. It's just gonna lead to them saying, all right, we gotta figure this out. And asking your kids to bail you out is just a gross injustice to me. You know, I was just sitting here thinking, as I have 19 year old, two 16 year olds, I don't want my kids coming back to live with me. I love my kids.

I'm brokenhearted with my oldest in college for the first time, right? But at the same time, it's natural. It's normal. And I don't want him to come back and live with me. The only thing worse than your kids coming back to live with you are your parents! Can you imagine if you and Stacey... Unless it's a health situation and you're their caregiver. Yeah, let me say, in generationally, in different cultures that are going to come at us, Ken, is to go, you don't understand! I get it. But this is a very different situation.

That's what I'm talking about. Enabling misbehavior versus living generationally with grandma. Thank you for clarifying that. You bailed me out from all the hate. What I'm saying is, if your parents come back to live with you because they can't support themselves financially, because of their irresponsibility. That's what I'm saying. Wow. Interesting stuff. Tough Well, wow, interesting stuff. Tough stuff, Chris, but you and your wife, you got the right instincts, follow them.

This is The Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey everyone, listen, we all have stories. The family and cultural stories that we were born into, the stories of the things that have happened to us, both the good stuff and the challenging stuff. And we have those stories that we constantly tell ourselves. And none of us can go back and change any of our old stories, but the world is waiting to see what each of us is going to write next. As we enter

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Triple 8, 825-5225 is the phone number. Let's go to Des Moines, Iowa. Monica is there. Monica, how can we help today? Hello. Thank you for taking my call today. You bet. I am just extremely worried and hope

that you can help me break down what I currently have in retirement to maybe give me some peace of mind that at the age of 67, I may be able to retire frugally. How old are you now? I'm 56, I'll be 57 in April. Okay. Give us the numbers.

George has got his handy calculator out. I'm ready to crunch. Great. Great. Well, I'm going to tell you, the salary that I make currently is $47,840. I currently have an IRA that has $47,702 in it, and I I contribute 200 per month to that I only I have a CD that I locked up for 13 months at 5% interest it currently has thirty six thousand twenty two dollars in it I have a Roth IRA in a job I started

a year ago it has two thousand2,581 in that. I am contributing 8% and set it up for a 2% per year increase until I reach 15%. And then in my savings, I currently have $12,237. I put 20% of each check into that savings account. I do not have any debt. I'm debt-free, but I do not own a home. I went through a divorce in 2018. It took years to pay off my debt to get to where I am now, debt-free. What would be three to six months' expenses for you? Very minimal, because I live with my significant other.

He doesn't have a house payment. So I just pay utilities, we split utilities, we split groceries. So, you know, maybe 1,200 a month. Okay, so you have more than three to six months in that savings account with the 12,000. That's what I was trying to get to. Oh, yeah, yes.

So you're doing 17 things at once, Monica, and none of them are inherently bad. So let me encourage you that you're in a good spot at 57 being debt-free, you've got a little nest egg going, you've got some savings going, but we're doing like seven things. Like you got the CD over here, we got some savings here, we're doing a little investing here.

What's the deal with increasing it from the 8%? Why not just go, I'm going to invest 15% with the Ramsey plan, I'm going to do the Roth accounts and see where I go there. I am so open to that. That's why I wanted to talk to you today. Okay. I am completely, I live very frugally. The only thing that I spend a decent amount of money on is good organic produce and grass

fed meat. Love it. Look at you. Which means you need more in retirement because you're going to live to be 120 at this rate. of money on is good organic produce and grass-fed meat. I want to stay healthy. Which means you need more in retirement because you're going to live to be 120 at this rate by eating so healthy. Monica, quick question, George, before you get to your crunching of numbers. Do we expect to marry this significant other? I would love that, but the significant other is 60 years old and never been married, never had children. I'm working on that. We're both Christians and I'm not feeling comfortable with the situation that we're currently in, living and we're not married.

Not sure what church is good with that situation, Monica. Correct. No judgment here. Correct. I mean, seriously. Working on that. And we love that you're working on it. She's working on it. She's working on a lot of things, Ken. A lot working on that. I love that you're working on it.

She's working on it. She's working on a lot of things, Ken. A lot of irons in the fire here. But see, that changes the equation a little bit, George. I wanted you to have that information. That's good to know, because you don't have a mortgage, and you may not ever. What's his income? He is $100,000 a year, but he retires next July.

What kind of nest egg does he have? I think he said he'll be able to, with what he has in his pension and retirement, he'll retire with like $50,000 or $60,000 a year. So it's not a ton. Yeah. Okay. All right, George, take it away. So it might concern him. you guys have separate finances?

Correct. Okay. So I'm gonna pretend like this is Monica's situation through retirement is that she's doing this on her own. Okay? Yeah. So I crunched your current numbers. Here's what I found out. You got 50 grand in retirement accounts. Let's say from 57 to 67, you invest 15%,

you never get a raise. It's about 600 bucks a month, right, of your $48,000 salary. And assuming a 10% rate of return, you'd have 258,000. Now that's great. That's not enough for me to retire on. I don't know about you. I'd want a bigger nest egg. So what does that tell us?

We need to A, get our income up and savings rate up, and B, we might need to work longer than expected if our body allows us. So you might need to do both of those things, and I would recommend it. Because if we can get your income up, get your investing rate up, have you work a little bit longer,

now we can go, okay, we might retire with half a million. The other piece of this equation is, you're gonna have to pay rent the rest of your life if we don't get into a house with a fixed expense. And so that's the part that worries me here. I hope you guys are together a long time. I hope you get married because that changes this equation completely. But this idea of you sort of just not having anything, not building towards something at your age, that gives me some pause. Yes.

Have you had this conversation with him that just how you feel about your own finances? Yes. How does he react? And I'm going to tell you, to be honest with you, I have so much anxiety over this that it's been a year that I can barely sleep because it takes the enjoyment out of my life because of this constant fear and worry. Now I know we none of us know about tomorrow but you still have to have a plan. Yeah well and George is addressing that plan so when George hits you with that what is your reaction that you can do tangibly when it comes to income saving more what what immediately comes to

mind because you've got to stop worrying and start getting busy. Part of this challenge is you didn't have a clear vision of what you need to do George just gave start getting busy. Part of this challenge is you didn't have a clear vision of what you need to do, George just gave it to you. But now the second thing is, is we start getting busy and the busier I am attacking something that is a potential problem, the less I'm worried about it. Do you resonate with that? Yes, I do.

Okay, so what can you do tactically coming out of what George just told you? Well, first and foremost, immediately I can increase my Roth to 15%. Good. Maybe get a second job. Good.

Or look for another job with a higher salary. Yeah, can you make 60, 70,000 in your field doing something similar with your experience? I have a pretty decent amount in social security right now, which probably won't be there, but for years I made six figures. It's just the rigorous travel in the sales that I was in. I just couldn't deal with it anymore. I was on the road you know four nights a week. Who told you there's no sales roles that you could do without traveling all the time? No one. No one. I get it you down

shifted. I get the down shift but but hey, you downshifted, now you're on the other side of this and you got a lot of experience. My guess is your resume is very impressive. Yes. Well, let's go get it, Monica. You can sell. You are a six-figure earner. Let's go. You want to attack this worry and sleep well at night? Start making some more money and put more money away. Come on Monica. Do not let this fear happen to you. You need to happen to it.

Let me tell you something I've learned. Okay, I've had the privilege at Ramsey Solutions, not counting the Ramsey Show, but on the Ken Coleman Show, George, I've coached over 10,000 people and they're trying to make more money or experience more meaning in work. And Monica, here's what I want you to hear. There's a formula that I've learned because people call me and they're paralyzed. Do I take this job? Do I stretch out to this?

Do I get a degree? They're trying to figure out what do I do to make my life better through my work? And here's what I've learned George. You've heard me say this. Monica, I want you to catch this. Clarity always breeds confidence and confidence breeds courage. And I think that's what you need today. And George just gave you tremendous clarity. And you got it.

You repeated back exactly what we would want you to do. There's your clarity. Let that clarity, that action plan that you laid out for us so clearly, let that be the thing that you focus on and watch what happens, George. She's, your confidence is going to go up. And then the confidence gives you that courage to keep going, keep

trying, get a new gig here. The income then goes up along with confidence. The savings rate goes up, the nest egg will start to grow, and you might need to work until you're 72. And I hope you're able bodied with all those organic foods that you're still very limber at 72. Monica's eating clean. She can work. We can learn a thing or two for Monica Yeah, hey Monica hang on the line jump on a Ramsey solutions comm slash guide. We've got a free investing guide It's gonna walk you through this much more detail. Anyone can go get a Ramsey solutions comm slash guide Monica

You're gonna be okay. This is the Ramsey show Hey, what's up guys? It's Jade Warshaw and I'm just going to cut to the chase. If anyone knows about paying off student loans, it's me. Okay, my husband and I had $460,000 of debt and $280,000 of it was student loans. So I know the pressure that you feel when you have that debt weighing you down. But I also know there's a way out because we did it and you can too.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Kullman. George Campbell joins me and we're thrilled you're with us. 888-825-5225. So this is fun. We get to do this every once in a while. We got John on the line, George. And John is from the Miami area and he's 46 and he's single. That's what I know. And John reached out to us and he said, I need some help with my budget. And we love this. So we're going to go through the numbers. We got I mean The budget man right next to me. That's like cracking my fingers. I'm ready to go. I love it

The people heard you crack the knuckles. That was real life. No sound effects. So this is real So I've plugged it into our budgeting app every dollar So these are John's real numbers here and we're gonna see what a situation we're gonna walk through it right now All right, let's go John. Are you there? Yeah, hi guys. How are you?? Well we're great man. How are you feeling about this live on-air budget-ectomy? Well I'm happy to be on the show. I recently started to watch some YouTube videos and I came to explore your show and I thought to myself why don't I reach out to you guys and see

what's my options. Am I completely bankrupt? So I'm going to be able to get out of this. And if there is a way, maybe you can show me. I got good news, John. I don't know what the bad news is going to be. George is going to let you know shortly. The good news is you can get out of this. And boy, oh boy, do you have the man to help you. He's wearing corduroy today, so he's got a little extra credibility and confidence. All right, George, take let's do this every dollar. So John I've got your numbers here and I have them in every dollar but for the people's sake listening out there watching what is your total debt load? Combined about 96,000 between eight cards. Wow all credit card debt? All credit cards.

And what is your income? So I lost my job in the last year, which was 175K. I was able to find temporary projects with consistency anywhere between 65 to 7,500 a month, but it's only been like four months last year, and I have about two months this year, which is the end of next month. So you're going to lose all of that income next month?

Correct. What field are you in? In operations. And you're just, what would you say is the reason why you're having a hard time finding full-time employment? I'm not sure. I don't know if it's something to do with the economy. I don't know if it's something that's in my search, maybe sure. I don't know if it's something to do with economy. I don't know if it's something that's in my search, maybe combination. I don't know. Are you getting

opportunities and just not winning the job or is it a lack of interviews? Lack of interviews, I would say. Okay, and when you look at the field, are there multiple opportunities that you see out there that you are qualified for and enter in the range of salary that you're used to making? Not really, to be honest. It's more diluted right now. Yeah, well, that is true. The white collar jobs right now, we've seen a slow, slowing, what they call a softening in the job economy.

So that's real. But let's stay on the budget, but we do gotta talk about income here. Go ahead, George. Well, that's the big key, because your budget with every dollar is income minus expenses. So I've got it on the screen here. Our team's gonna throw it up for you. And here's the deal.

I'm gonna assume 6,500 bucks is coming in this month, right? So I'm gonna show you an example of what it would look like to get on this money plan. So you've got 6,500 coming in, and you got no savings? Correct. All right, and then you're not, are you paying rent or mortgage right now?

I'm staying in an apartment for free for two months until end of, actually, mid of next month. Okay, so we're gonna need to figure out where we're gonna live and how we're gonna afford that. We need income before that happens, of course. And then I see here, it says car rental $1,000. What's going on there? Well, that's only for two months actually for this period just because the project is

very far away and I don't have a car. So what is your plan to get around once this project's over? Probably not having a car and just using Uber whenever I need to, which will cut it probably by half. Okay. We'll keep going here. You've got groceries 200, restaurants 500, correct? Correct. I think I see a spot we can cut right now.

Could you just not eat out and increase your grocery budget a little bit? I mean, I could probably cut it by half. I would say some of it is also to meet some people, talk about some maybe connections about work. Can we do a cup of coffee instead of a fancy dinner? Sure. Okay, that'll cut it down.

So I'm gonna cut this down to 100 bucks for restaurants. We'll increase your groceries by 100 to make up for it. And so we'll save some money right there. Then you've got a phone, 65 bucks a month. Correct. We could do a little better there. My friends at Tello, 25 bucks, unlimited everything. So that one you could shave off 40 bucks a month right there.

And then the rest is all of your debt. I mean, I'm staring at, let's see here, every dollar adds it up for me. You have over $3,500 in just minimum payments on these credit cards? Yeah, that's crazy. Oh, I need some tums. I know.

That's why. That's why. That is wild. So here's the deeper question. You don't need, this is not the point of the call, but what got you here to where you ran up a hundred thousand dollars in credit cards? I think it was just accumulation from like two years before. Maybe it was like 30, maybe close to 40%.

I think last year was just a lot more than that. But a guy making $175 has no need to go into credit card debt. So what was going on in your life that you were spending this money on? Well, as I said, I think it started before that. I had probably at least 35 to 40 percent just being irresponsible in the way of thinking money is still going to flow for a long time. So has that spending addiction ceased or are you still adding to this credit card debt? No, the cards are maxed out, so even if I wanted to, I can't.

You know it's bad when even the credit card companies cut you off. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Okay, anything that we can sell. I wish. Did you purchase anything on these cards that was a physical item that you can go sell

on Facebook Marketplace? No, I did not go into luxury items spree. So was this experiences? It was, I had to relocate to another city, another state for the project last year. Some of it was paying for accommodations. It was just, yeah, it was just months of doing that. Okay.

Yeah. Well, here's the deal. We need to get income in our life ASAP, and that's where Ken's advice is gonna come into play here, because without income, this whole plan is moot. The budget needs income in order to cover the expenses and attack the extra debt. So here's your goal, is cover your four walls.

That is your priority. Before any credit card company gets paid, cover your food, utilities, shelter, transportation. Keep it all to a minimum. Okay. Okay? Beyond that, you're going to start attacking these debts from smallest to largest. So I see here your credit card number one.

The balance is $2,600 if I click into it. Yes. So that's going to be your first one to tackle. You're going to make minimum payments on the rest. So you've got to make at least $3,500 of payments, then anything beyond that, throw toward card number one. Yeah. On to the principal.

I actually was paying all the smaller cards, but the big cards, I wasn't able to. Three cards already being closed by the bank. Okay, during collections? I'm pretty sure that I'm already starting to get calls. Okay. So three cards are already being, I call them also to let them know that, you know,

after years I'm unable to make payments on, you know, two of the cards and I guess they're already closed three accounts, two for personal and one for business. Okay, and are you able to make all of your payments currently on the remaining cards? Yeah, just the small ones, correct. Okay. So yeah.

So with this debt snowball, as you clear each debt, it's gonna also clear up that minimum payment, which frees up more money to attack the next one. Are you getting that? Yeah. Which means once you get started on this, it feels overwhelming now, but man, if you can get that job making $150,000 again, we can get rid of this debt.

Think about it. If you can throw $50,000 at this debt per year, you're done in two years, and we're never going into debt again. John, that's what we're talking about, a short season of sacrifice. Is this contract work remote? Right now? Yeah, the work you're doing on these, you told us you had these contracts. Is that remote work? It's a project that moves around. In that case, they're actually here

in Florida. So it's... All right. Here's my point. The white collar world, the kind of jobs, it is tightened. It is a softer market. So you're working really hard to replace it. However, you're also at Home Depot or Lowe's or Walmart or whatever, you are working, you've got operational experience, you've been a manager of processes. That is extremely versatile and valuable. My point is, you aren't waiting for another contract

or job while you're looking. You are working, working, working to knock these credit cards down. That's the key to winning on this deal. George, tell people how they can get every dollar just like we recommended to John. We're going to send this to John as well. We're going to give you a premium for one year so it connects to your bank account, has all the paycheck planning features to help you along this process. Everyone can go download it in the App Store.

How many times last year did you end up with too much month at the end of the money? Even if you're able to stay on top of your bills, there's nothing left over. No margin, no breathing room. You work your butt off, but you still feel broke. And now you're wondering if 2025 will be any different. It can be. You are not powerless over your money. When you take control of the things you can

control, you will make progress and bring peace back to your home. And we're going to help you. On January 23rd, me and Jade are hosting a free live stream where we will show you how to free up more breathing room this year. Plus, when you sign up, you could win $4,000 cash. It's gonna be a blast guys. Go sign up right now, make this the year you stop getting by and start getting ahead. Register for free at ramsysolutions.com slash livestream.

That's ramsysolutions.com slash livestream. Welcome back to the Ramsey show. You know, I think back George, by the way, I'm Ken Coleman, George Campbell with me today here. I think back to that last call with John as you were walking him through every dollar, you know, the theme there is John, you've got to take control of your money. He's been very successful, but he's never really had control

of his money. And by the way, you know, no judgment or shame there. We've all been there before. And the idea of taking control of your money, that thought leads to an action, George, that again, can turn anything around. And we've seen some extreme turnarounds here in our time at Ramsey Solutions and as co-host of the Ramsey Show.

And it just makes me think again tonight, why tonight's live stream is so important. It's a free live stream event. We've got over 400,000 people registered to join this free event. It's free. Live on YouTube, 7 Central tonight. And if you're one of those people right now, you're listening to us or watching us, you're going, I've never truly taken control of my money. I really think you ought to tune in tonight, George.

Absolutely. Yeah, I'll be a part of it along with Rachel Cruz. Dave and Jade will be leading off, teaching you all the things you need to be doing to get ahead financially, to start building wealth. And then we're gonna have a live Q&A where Rachel and I will join answering your questions. We're taking questions live from Zoom.

We're taking questions live from email and social. And so this is your last chance to sign up if you want some life change this year. Tell your friends, tell your family. Again, it's free. Sign up for the live stream at ramsysolutions.com slash live stream. You'll be entered to win, for a chance to win, for a grand.

We're giving away $4,000 cash to five people, which is gonna be fun, and make sure you create a free EveryDollar account. You'll get a bonus entry in the giveaway for doing that. We're gonna be using every dollar in the livestream to show you practically, just like I did with John, how to find more margin, how to speed up the progress. So 7 p.m. tonight, central time.

We'll see you there, ramsysolutions.com slash livestream. Now, you don't wanna miss a minute of this, obviously, because every minute is planned out. But people are at home, life happens, and for people who love you, George, because it's a growing number. We're up to 10? It's a really large group of people.

Do you have any idea about what time you're going to appear, if you look at the minute by minute? I believe the first section with Dave and Jade's probably about 45 minutes. And then we're going to do about an hour of Q&A. We really wanted to make it about what people are really experiencing. If you're going gonna have to get up

and go to the restroom, you wanna be back in your couch. That's right. Around 7.45-ish. Yeah, and here's the good news. Are you wearing the corduroy on that too? I am, I didn't wanna have to wardrobe change. I want the American people who are listening today,

who haven't seen this corduroy, what did you say, I missed that. I said I don't wanna have to do a wardrobe change, so I thought I'll just wear what I'm wearing. I like that. Well, it's a fantastic Jack. Thank you. All right. So you don't want it. By the way, I'm going to have a bucket of popcorn. I'm going to be nice to be Ken Coleman on his couch tonight. Well, watching us do the heavy lifting. Listen, I didn't. I'm not starting tonight. All right. Tonight's the night I'm not starting. It's not my night. So it's going to be awesome. I'll be in the

pajama pants watching you. I appreciate that. A little bit of popcorn. Several hundred thousands and- It's gonna be great. Your mom and dad are gonna be very proud. My mom is always texting me during these saying, you need to smile more. Mike, thanks mom, very helpful feedback. You know, I don't like your attitude.

Exactly. I think your mom's probably right. She's right, well you're- Why don't you do what your mom says? You're listening to questions, you're focused, it's hard to smile. I gotta remind myself. I've never noticed that about you. You strike listening to questions, you're focused. It's hard to smile. I've got to remind myself. I've never noticed that about you.

You strike me as a very joyful person. Thank you. Worried, but joyful. Appreciate that. Steven is up next in Little Rock, Arkansas. Steven, how can George and I help? Can you all hear me? Loud and clear, sir.

Okay. So I'm trying to get out of debt, and lost my, like the best fan job I ever had. I was making a hundred K and then. What happened and what were you doing? I was driving a truck and due to unforeseen circumstances, I lost my job. And so my new career, it's still driving a truck, but it's about, I got a huge pay cut. How big? Like now I make about 35,000.

And that's because that's the only trucking job available to you? I can't really go over the road. I hate saying that, but my anxiety's really bad. Okay, all right. Do you need to find a new career field? No, this is the only thing I've ever been good at. Is what, driving? Yeah. So the question then becomes,

and again, before we start talking about, you know, you don't have enough money to pay your debt, we gotta figure out how we get more money. And that's why I kind of interrupted here, to figure out where we are here. So I understand the anxiety, no shame in that. Don't be embarrassed by that. That's real. But a couple things on that. Number one, that's treatable. Would you agree? Yes, I am on medicine for that. Okay, but regardless of what you're doing to treat that, I

would be looking mentally at, I've got to do the hard work. If it's a chemical thing, I'm doing meds. I've got to get to a point where I can get back on the road for a season if that's the best money I can make. Or I've got to expand my horizons and my thinking to, alright, I can do more. What jobs do not require me to be over the road for long amounts of time? I'm thinking UPS, driving for one of the beer companies, Coca-Cola. These jobs have higher pay than $35,000 and they also have a nice path in these large companies. So just trying to ideate for you to go,

man, you can't accept whatever happened in the past that's got you here. It's gonna be a lot longer and a lot harder, and George is gonna walk you through this, the debt snowball, but you need more income and soon. Would you agree? Yeah. Okay.

Your hourly rate right now is about $17 an hour. I'm getting a second job. I don't know, but I must have done my math right. I'm making $18. Okay, you're making $18 an hour. So what we're saying is, if you can go make $20 an hour temporarily, you'd get a raise right now. Yeah. Which wouldn't be that hard to find.

So give George your debt picture. Um Me and my wife together have around 24 and a half thousand dollars in debt Yes, uh break it down for us, dude Okay, the Credit cards around 1500

The two personal loans of The card's around $1,500. The two personal loans of one's $2,500, the other one's $1,500. And there's a car that's, I think, around $1,500 and a building that's around $1,500 and the rest is the student loan of my wife. Okay, and is your wife working outside the home? Yes. What does she make? She makes 24.

24,000 a year or 24 an hour? 24,000 a year. What does she do? She is a occupational therapist or something like that. Is she working 40 hours a week? She's an activities director at a nursing home. You see that there's potential for her to be doubling her income as well with not a whole lot of effort?

Yes. My man, that's the conversation tonight over dinner. We're both looking for jobs. One thing I do on the side that I'm really passionate about is on Sundays after church I go and preach to elderly at nursing homes because you know they're lonely and need people to talk to. That's another reason I don't want to really go over the road to. What's that pay you? It don't. That's voluntary. And I love that. I love that, Stephen, but that's not a job. And right now you need to get out of debt. You don't have a ton of spare time to be putting towards a lot of volunteerism. Use that passion to fuel your debt-free journey to say, man, I hate that I can't do that right now because I'm out working three jobs.

I want to get back to that, so let's get rid of this debt fast. You see how you flip the script? Yeah. So you guys are making about $60K. You've got about $25,000 worth of debt, and it's going to take the Debt Snowball method. And so any money we have beyond our expenses, which by the way should be minimal, we're talking about no eating out. Are you guys doing any of that right now?

No, sir. The old post church lunch isn't happening? No, he's preaching. All right. Hey, real quick question, super quick, Steve, and I just heard something. You said one of the reasons you don't wanna go back out on over the road truck driving

is because you wanna be there preaching to the to the old folks and I love that With the medicine that you're on right now Are you able to drive without the crippling anxiety that got you out of the cab before yes or no? No, all right I'd be working on that. I'd be working on getting to a point where you can manage your anxiety because that's a hundred grand man Quick they need truck drivers. It's the number one need in the market George I just wanted to throw that out now. That's true and this income will change everything to clean up this 25,000 a debt It's not on fire. We've seen much bigger numbers

That's right. It feels like it is right now because of that lower income you get that up this problem will solve itself, man This is the Ramsey show