The Ramsey Show - Don't Chase Money, Chase Freedom

Episode Date: March 4, 2025

📈 Are you on track with the Baby Steps? Get a Free Personalized Plan Dave Ramsey & George Kamel answer your questions and discuss: "What should I do after winning $3m?" "I feel pressured to buy a house" "Should I accept a financial gift from my mom?" "Is the time cost worth working two jobs?" "Should I sell my home to pay off debt?". Support Our Sponsors: 🌱 Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp 🏥 Learn more about Christian Healthcare Ministries 🏡 Get started today with Churchill Mortgage 🔒 Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe 🏦 Go to FAIRWINDS Credit Union for an exclusive account bundle! 🥗 Save 15% on your first Field of Greens order with code RAMSEY ⛨ Find top Health Insurance Plans at Health Trust Financial 💸 To find out more about student loan refinancing, check out Laurel Road 💻 Visit NetSuite today to learn more 🗂️ Use promo code RAMSEY for 18% off at The Nokbox 💵 Learn more about Timothy Plan 🏛 Get started with YRefy or call 844-2-RAMSEY 🔐 Visit Zander Insurance for your free instant quote today! Next Steps 📱 Watch the full episode for free in the Ramsey Network app. 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET or click here! 💵 Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app! 📈 Get tickets to Investing Essentials and learn to invest with confidence. 📖 Preorder Build a business You Love today. 🏖️ For help with investing, get connected with a SmartVestor Pro.  🎟️ Get Tickets to the Money & Relationships Tour Listen to more from Ramsey Network 🎙️ The Ramsey Show   🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 💰 George Kamel 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Don't miss our virtual event happening tonight. I'm sharing my personal playbook for investing and real estate. Get your ticket at ramsysolutions.com slash events. Music Music Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, George Campbell, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author is my co-host today. You jump in, we'll talk about your life and your money.

The call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. Yeah, jump in. 888-825-5225, we'd love to talk to you. Tonight, for those of you listening live through one methodology or another, we're on about 83 different platforms of different kinds with this show But if you're able to listen on Tuesday For whatever Tuesday evening that we will be doing the investing essentials Workshop tonight George, and I just came out of a rehearsal. This is about a two-hour event this evening and tomorrow evening

Rehearsal this is about a two-hour event this evening and tomorrow evening Tuesday and Wednesday night if you buy a VIP ticket you have 30 days worth of replay You can watch it over and over and over for 30 days. So no no rush. No problem Whatever, but you do need to get your ticket if you want to watch this evening live he and I will be doing investing tonight tomorrow tomorrow night we'll be doing investing in real estate. And George is loving this, bringing out your, I know you look very GQ on the surface, but underneath we know you're a true nerd. I love it.

Just watching Dave unpack a formula, I don't know, that's my new hobby, I guess. But it really is, it's stuff we've never talked about on this show, mostly because you thought it was too dry and boring. It's too nerdy. But then people went, no, no, no, Dave, we actually want to know, how do you select a mutual fund

out of all the investment options? We're gonna cover that. It's too nerdy. How do you calculate the cash on cash return to know if the investment property is worth it? How do you do an internal rate of return on a piece of real estate? It's too nerdy.

But I do it all, because I also am a super nerd. So, couple super nerd. So, couple super nerds tagging up tonight, investing essentials virtual event. My pastor used to say, a man with an experience is not at the mercy of a man with an opinion. I own about $600 million worth of real estate. I'm 64 years old. I've got a lot of money in other investments as well. This is not something I wish I knew something about. I can't fix your car, but I can tell you how to do this because I have done this a lot. No theories here. Not theory. This is not a think tank. This is not your broke financial professor,

financial professor with an opinion. So tonight, March 4th and 5th, we're gonna be doing this. It's a two hour each night. It's standalone. So it's a four, four and a half hours worth of virtual event. You go to ramsysolutions.com, get your tickets.

We'll come into the top of the hour here, bragging about that that because it is tonight Angela is with us in Rochester, New York. Hi Angela. What's up? Well, hi, I recently won nice chunk of money in the lottery Wow, how much did you win? I? Won three million Wow Yeah Unfortunately, I of course didn't get anywhere near that I got Yeah unfortunately I of course didn't get anywhere near that I got 997,000 after taxes. After taxes and lump sum the three million is the total payout if

you take it over 83 bazillion years and not and not count taxes yeah so you took it all lump sum so you got a million bucks way to go yeah that's fine I'm happy for you thank you I was too I just don't know what to do now. I've been meeting with a lot of different advisors but then I'm also reading about a possible market crash and I don't know what to do. Okay. I hope there's a market crash right before you put this money in. Yeah, because it's gonna go straight up after that. So I don't think there's gonna go straight up after that so I don't think there's gonna be a market crash in other words. Let me tell you how much of my

money I pulled out of the market in fear of a market crash, precisely zero. Okay. Matter of fact I'm steadily investing. Real estate and stock market both. Okay. There's a boom a coming baby, ride the wave. Alright now here's the thing, when you're meeting with those investors how intimidated are you? I'm not intimidated well I can't say that I don't really understand at all. There you go. That's where I'm very lost at what to do. So I've got a bunch of Gen Z's in their 20s that work here we've got a whole bunch of digital products at Ramsey. I know nothing about it. They work for me, but they're smarter than me and I have no idea what they're talking about.

You know what I'm talking about? So I go into a room full of them the other day and I'm like, hey, they're talking and they're using letters and all this stuff like they're in the military. I have no idea what they're talking about. I'm like, hey guys, just humor the old guy who writes your check. Tell me what the flip is going on in this room. Explain like I'm five, hey guys, just humor the old guy who writes your check. Tell me what the flip is going on in this room.

Explain like I'm five. Please. Explain it until I understand it because you work here and work for me. My name is on the building. I'm not being mean about this. I'm just really curious what it is we do in this room. So they spent about 30 minutes teaching me with a good spirit and I had a good spirit of receptively listening and learning because I really did want to know what they were

Doing I'm always perpetually curious around here, and that's what you're gonna. Do these people work for you these investing advisors Meaning you can fire them at a hot drop of a hat if they're not good at explaining Or if they make you feel insecure with their snotty approach So you're looking for the heart of a teacher with anyone giving you advice because your job is not to hire someone else to do this for you, your job is to hire someone to teach you to do it for yourself. Okay. That way you won't lose the money. That's my fear. You're not

gonna lose it. You're gonna go slow and you're not gonna put it in anything you don't understand. Okay. And you remember everything that's written on the Internet's true. Abraham Lincoln said that. Yeah, that's what my friends say. If it's not on Facebook, it's not true. Yeah, it doesn't happen, right? So stay off the Internet for financial advice. Alright, sit down and talk to old-seasoned people who will teach you and when you come away from the meeting you feel two things,

smarter and peaceful. If you don't have that sense in your spirit, if you don't feel more confident, smarter and peaceful, you got the wrong people in your corner. That's what you're looking for. If you do that you won't lose the money. George yeah I think it's better to invest it or just keep like divide 250,000 of pound banks until I feel better so I just put three million dollars into the stock market last week

okay 25% is what stock market went up last year. What's 25% of three million? Right. Yeah. What do you make, Angela? What do you make from your job? 10% is 300,000, by the way. I'm actually retired. I bring 62,000 in.

I have a couple of defined benefit pension plans. Good. And my husband makes about 110 a year. 62,000 and I have a couple of defined benefit pension plans. Good. Yeah, and my husband makes about 110 a year. Okay. So if you put a million dollars in and it makes 20%, that's 200,000. If instead you put it into a savings account because you're scared and you don't learn and you make 1%, you lost $200,000.

That's a much better way of looking at it. That's opportunity cost. way of looking at it. That's opportunity cost. It's called opportunity cost. You missed an opportunity by not learning. So learn, learn, learn, learn, learn, get comfortable and don't invest in the stock market or in real estate if you're wanting to do a short term play. You want to think, I'm not going to touch this for five years once I put it in there. Okay.

If you do that and then you just turn off the news you'll be okay. But learn, learn, learn, learn, learn. You and your husband sit down with these advisors and if you want some more to have the heart of a teacher go to RamseySolutions.com and click on SmartVestor Pros and find the ones in your area. Interview two or three. talk to tax people, real estate people, insurance people until they have the heart of a teacher. If they're snotting you, they drop their glasses down on the end of their nose and they have all the answers

and you're just the stupid little people who got lucky. You have a million dollars, they don't, so tell them to shut up, they're fired. This is the Ramsey Show. don't so tell them to shut up they're fired. This is the Ramsey Show. Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're not gonna die or something? Well I used to be one of those guys I didn't even think about it and one of my

buddies said hey the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. And I immediately went and got term life insurance. That's a gut punch. For decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. Me too.

And they don't know what to do next. Terrifying. You're gonna have a crisis here. You know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's gonna invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's gonna eat tomorrow.

These are the two options. It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance. Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282

This is the Ramsey show George Campbell Ramsey personality number one best-selling author is my co-host George when you were a wee toddler, there was a fabulous comedian out named Steve Martin Oh, I love Steve and he had a whole bit that said You need to get a million dollars and not pay taxes. He said, how do you want to be a millionaire and not pay taxes? He said, the first thing you do is you get a million dollars. It's good advice. And then you don't pay taxes.

Now, that was a funny bit. But when I get a call from someone like our last caller before the break, Angela, and she got a million dollars from the lottery, I always think, where does money come from? Where does wealth come from? And there's a lot of places you can get money. You can win the lottery. You can have a rich uncle that dies and leave you a million dollars. You can be scuba diving in the Caribbean and find gold bars from a Spanish galleon that wrecked.

Sounds personal. Yeah, I mean that could happen. I mean, people, you know, there's a lot. You could treasure hunt. You could do all kinds of things. Get a settlement check, sell a business. Yeah, you could be in a car wreck. I mean, you could get a million dollars from a lot of places and become wealthy. What we are in the business of however here

is giving you a path that has a super high probability of working, not a super low probability of working. Now if you get a million dollars from a low probability, like not a chance it's happening again like winning the lottery. We're going to celebrate with you because we were nice to Angela and we want to celebrate with her but I don't want you folk out there to misunderstand that the lottery is a high probability of building wealth. As a matter of fact statistically it is a

tax on poor people. Most people that play the lottery live in lower-income zip codes. In the state of Tennessee, we have this wonderful program where the lottery money is used to send people to college. The people that go to college in Tennessee using the lottery money are typically middle-class and upper-class kids going to college on lottery money that was paid by poor people playing the lottery in lower-income zip codes who never use those scholarships. So it's a completely bogus, horrible system. Now Angela benefited from it and I'm not mad at her. We'll help her

and celebrate with her that she became a millionaire with this, but I want you folks to know here's the actual... this is hilarious to me, but it's mathematically factual. Okay, if you walk one mile to the market to buy the lottery ticket, you are 12 times more likely to be struck by lightning twice during the one-mile walk. That's statistically. Wow. Then you are to buy the winning lottery ticket that's how bad this program sucks and people go I'll take my chances day I'll get I'll get struck by lightning twice I mean number of people that

I mean really I mean it's like something off of Instagram but no okay I want a high probability I want something that works most of the time for average intelligence people because that's what I am. I don't want to have to be a genius. I don't want to have to be lucky beyond statistical probability. I want something that works and that's what we teach here. So, but if you were to come into wealth by one of these other weird means, George and all the other Ritchie personalities, we will celebrate with you, we love you. If you have a rich uncle, you're the one that did.

I always wondered who it was, it was you. Because it wasn't me, and it wasn't George. If I had one, he didn't leave me any money. I don't know where he is. I might be the rich uncle, but I'm not leaving the nephews anything. They're all going to my kids. No one's ever left you in their will?

No. Yeah, my grandmother did. I got $5,000 from my grandma. Hey! That's a tiny lottery. Yeah, we were just married, and I have no idea where that money went. Gone, just poof, my grandmother did. I got $5,000 from my grandmother. Hey! It's a tiny lottery. Yeah, we were just married and I have no idea where that money went. It's gone. Just poof. It just disappeared. I blame Sharon. Like mist in the wind. But that's the deal, Pokes. So anyway, I just want you to know, just because we celebrate with someone who had a good event does not mean that's an endorsement of that methodology okay 12 times more likely to be struck by lightning twice in a one-mile walk than you are statistically to buy a winning lottery

ticket that's pretty low odds just saying all right Samuels with us in Los Angeles California hi Samuel how are you good good morning guys thank you for having me on the show our pleasure pleasure. How can we help you? Yeah. So my name is Samuel Baron. I'm 26 years old. I've been following your principles since I was a teenager, about 18, 19. Your advice on living debt-free and investing has helped me build a $5 million net worth at 26. Way to go. Wow. me build a five million dollar net worth at 26. Why go wow thank you. I have a big

question and I'm really confused on what's next. So I made my first million at 22 I invested all my profits I made. I've live in I still live in my mom's living room and I eat McDonald's and Chipotle every single day which is which isn't the best but my question is what's the meaning of life when the money game feels soft is it about starting a family or buying the dream home that I've been looking at for the past eight years or is it something deeper good for you I'll just say are say you are? 25? 26. 26. Cool. I appreciate you calling, dude. I'll take a stab at it. Number one, five

million dollars the money game is not solved. Okay. You can screw this up in about 20 minutes have nothing. I had four million worth of real estate when I was 26 and I went completely bankrupt by the time I was 30. So you can screw this up.

It's not over. But you have done a wonderful job. Congratulations. So, I mean, if you got 500 million, we'll talk about slowing down. But five million? No, you're not there yet. But what you're figuring out is that just stacking cash doesn't have meaning and I'll go along with that for sure.

Well done. And you've done a wonderful job of stacking cash. You're amazing. Congratulations, sir. But what we figured out a long time ago, I met God on the way up. I got to know Him on the way down when I lost everything, Samuel. And what I've learned as a person of faith is that true joy comes through serving, not through getting. Giving, not getting. Adding value, not taking value. And so I think you'll have a level of happiness when you just go get you an apartment and a better diet. Yeah, I'm working on it.

Yeah, no, I mean really, I mean like by the end of the week I want you in an apartment. You need to get out of your mother's living room. You're 26 years old, you got working on it. Yeah, no, I mean, really, I mean, like, by the end of the week, I want you in an apartment. You need to get out of your mother's living room. You're 26 years old, you got $5 million. What the flip are you doing at home? Go be a man. Here's the thing is that I bought a quadiplex in LA last year, but it's fully owner occupied, so I couldn't, that was fine. Go get an apartment.

I didn't say you had to move into that. Well, yeah, I mean, you're right. That's fine, go get an apartment. I didn't say you had to move into that. Well, yeah, I mean you're right. Yeah, I am right. The whole reason why I've been working is I just want this house that I've been looking at for years and I and that's what I'm... Yeah, but when you get that it's going to have the same exact feeling. It's just a stupid house. Every time you get a nice thing, there's a better one. And some goober on the internet will show it to you. The algorithm, when your social media feed will go, man, you should own 20

properties by the time you're 26. And so the goalpost is always going to keep moving until you decide. I want you to save up for that house too. I don't mind that, but dude, I don't know what the flip you're doing to make money, but you're doing a great job of handling the money. But what you're telling me is that all of your effort and energy and psychology and spirituality has been aimed at one target, and that's money. And that's a pretty stupid target.

It's a good target, but it's not the all-encompassing target. So go have a life too I mean I want you to go enjoy some meals with a beautiful woman called a date and go get you a an apartment and like a life have you got a car yeah what is a different yeah so me and my girlfriend have been together since middle school and we've done all the Why is she hanging out with you when you still live in your mother's living room? I mean she tells me the same thing. I hear it all the time.

I love you man, you're awesome. You are a great guy. You're amazing. Thank you so much for calling. Hey man, really, go invest some of this in your, in having a quality life, not just in investments. You got a flat tire right now. You got the money part down.

Let's focus on spiritual growth, physical health, social relationships, family. That's what's going to give you a lot more purpose on top of doing what Dave said and giving and serving. I was just a little bit younger than you when I landed in a good church Changed my life taught me how to serve and there's more joy in serving and Giving than there is in taking and adding and stacking cash go stack you some cash But go have a life to my man. It's time today's the day move out now like what this week Friday Friday That's your deadline. this is the Ramsey Chef. Hey what's up guys it's Jade Warshaw and look if there's anybody who knows student loan debt is a

problem it's me my husband and I had two hundred and eighty thousand dollars of it but we were able to dig ourselves out and you can too if your student loan payment and interest rate are burying you, refinancing could be the solution. Now, I recommend contacting my friends at Laurel Road today. Through their online application, you can get an initial rate quote in less than five minutes. And if you have a more complex situation, you can schedule 30 minutes to talk to an actual human being. Thank goodness. Laurel Road makes it simple. There are no fees involved and you could save thousands over the life of your

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refinancing. Again, that's laurelRoad.com slash Ramsey. Laurel Road is a brand of Key Bank National Association. All credit products are subject to credit approval. George Campbell Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us America in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage. David is with us. Hi David, how are you? I'm doing real well. Good man, where do you live? I live in Will DeMart, south of Los Angeles. Cool, welcome to Nashville. Thank you. And all the way on the other side of the United States to do a debt free scream baby. Of course. I love

it. How much did you pay off? $230,000. Wow! How long did this take you? Six years and four months. Wow! Good for you. Good for you. And what was your range of income during that time? Well, my income was about $200,000 a year. Cool. And what do you do for a living? I'm a salesman for a packaging company. Very good. Excellent, man!

What kind of debt was this $230,000? Well it was my mortgage and so I used my side job which is real estate to pay that off. You paid off your house? Yes. In California? Yes. No less. Well done sir. Thank you. Boom boom boom I'm looking at weird people. A paid for house just south of Los Angeles. What's this house worth? About 600,000. Way to go, man. How much have you got in your retirement nest egg?

A little over a million. All right, so worth almost two million dollars. How old are you? 64. I love it, man. Congratulations. Thank you. Whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop.

How's that feel? It feels great. It feels great. It's actually, since I paid it off in December not to have a mortgage since January is just it's awesome. It's just like you feel like no weight on your shoulder. That's right. Nothing's being taken out. I love it. Very good. So what inspired you to try to do this at six years ago at what 58 years old? Said I'm gonna pay off my house fast.

Well what I did was I had like a PMI on my original mortgage and so I they wouldn't take it off so I had to find another mortgage company to take the PMI off and it was actually owed 270 so what I did was I had some money saved up from real estate and when I refinanced I actually wired the money to the new lender so that that dropped it from 270 to 230 and they were going like well why don't you just take money out so that was my situation. Okay how'd you run into all this Ramsey stuff? Years ago in church. Okay. A program. Okay. And so the snowball has always been in my mind. Okay.

And just decided I'm going to knock this house out. Absolutely. Man, that's so cool. Now you mentioned the side hustle of doing real estate that helped to pay it off. Yes. What were you doing? Well, I do a couple deals a year, specializing in probate, and I just really liked it. It was like a hobby, and that's really what helped me

with the big you know chunks of change to pay it off. So you were finding deals out of estates that were good bargains and flipping them? No not flipping just being the listing agent. Oh okay you're selling them helping the people solve the problem. Yeah calling the calling family and and sharing you know what my what I can do for them and and that's how I did it. Good for you. Wow, that's neat. So good commissions then.

I guess having a sales background helps. Yeah, good commissions to be able to do that. So that helped me a lot. Plus a great income. Absolutely. Very, very cool. So who was your biggest cheerleader while you were doing all this? Pretty much just, it was me.

Well, one of the reasons I'm here is I'm doing this for my kids so I can be an example okay very cool how old are your kiddos let's see 35 33 I got one in the Navy he's 26 and then my youngest is 21 all right very good very good cool good for you well well it is a good example they can look over there and go, look, he saved money, he paid off his house, he's got a couple million dollars, he's 64 years old. He's not gonna be calling us for food. Sigh of relief from the kids.

We don't have to take care of dad in his old age. He's gonna be just fine with his big old nest egg and paid for house. That's great. Yeah, well done, sir. I'm very proud of you. Thank you, Dave. Very good, very well done.

I appreciate you making the trip over here. Of course So what what made you decide I'm going all the way to Nashville to do this? Why did that mean something? Well, you know the last six years I I knew that this is what I can do I wanted to come here. I do it for my kids, but also You know the goal of being debt-free and there's no other place to come except here Now we're the place that lets you celebrate it. That's right. That's for sure. Yeah, well good man. Very cool.

We're honored that we would be what you'd look, this stage is what you'd look forward to. Yes. That's pretty neat. What's next for you? What are you dealing with the freed up mortgage payment? You know what? I'm gonna actually fix my house. I didn't do anything to it.

It needs flooring, it needs a bunch of stuff. So I sacrificed that for getting this thing paid off. You put off the remodel. That's right. Yeah. Okay. Cash flow pretty easily now. Yes, absolutely. It's awesome.

So when someone's listening and they're in their 50s and they say, I've still got a quarter million dollars owed on a house, what do you tell them the secret to getting out of debt is? Well, I really think that if you can get a job, a side job that can really help you out and help you make those snowball payments slowly but surely it works. The whole thing reminds me of that book where the red fern grows and that young man it took him two years to save $40 and he bought two hounds. And that's how, you know, it goes quick,

but it's just little steps. And I would say the side job is what really saved me. Yeah. You weren't scared of work. It propelled you. That's for sure. Yes. Excellent job, David.

Good stuff. All right. And what was the town called again? A Will-D-Mar. Will-D-Mar. Will-D-ara, California. Yes. South of Los Angeles. I'm learning my geography right now. $230,000 paid off in six years and four months. That's house and everything. House is worth about $600,000, got about a million in the old retirement. So bumping up towards $2 million net

worth at 64 years old. Congratulations David, you did it. We're proud of you, hero. Count it down! Let's hear a debt-free scream! Debt-free! Woo! Got right to the chase. That's six years worth of waiting. Yeah.

I love it. Get to use your outdoor voice indoors. That's the joy of the debt-free scream. It is. It is. But you know what? So few people do it. I mean he's one of the rare people out there called millionaires. Baby steps millionaires. They follow the baby steps. They got out of debt, paid off their house, built their retirement, built their kids college in some cases. Not his, but you know you do all those things and then you look over there and there's a stinking pile of money and you're okay. Everything's going to be okay and mainly because of the habits you built during that time, the

character you built during that time, you get transformed in the process. Yeah that patience and delayed gratification, I mean you heard him saying I've lived on less than I made, I put off things and it's worth it. I mean six years heard him saying, I've lived on less than I made, I put off things, and it's worth it. I mean, six years feels like a long time. It's gonna happen. It's gonna fly by. You're gonna be 64 at one point or another. So, do you want to have a paid-for house, or do you want to have lifestyle creep take over, and you got a pile of debt going, I hope I can retire one day. That's normal in America. Yeah, I mean, last week we took calls from 71-year-old old who had no money and didn't know how she was gonna eat. A guy who was in his mid 70s had no money,

didn't know how he was gonna eat. Counting on social insecurity. You work your whole life and I'm gonna count on the government which is well known for its ability to handle money to take care of me. That's a dumb plan. But not David. David doesn't have a house payment. He's sitting on a lot.

Million bucks in retirement. Sitting on plenty of income and still, you know, enjoying his work and even enjoying the side hustle, which is pretty lucrative, obviously. So very cool, very well done. That's how you do it, folks. I mean, it doesn't happen accidentally, this winning thing. No. In our millionaire study, we found what? Average millionaire happens at 49 years old, and they pay off their house in 10.2 years. That's the average.

And so he probably fell right in there. He's a little faster on the mortgage payoff, but it's really not rocket science, and it's really not impressive when you look at what was going on there. They just consistently put money away, consistently made extra mortgage payments. There was no rocket science. It is impressive because no one else do it does it but it's not superhuman yeah it's not it's not out of reach you can just decide I'm gonna do that and

that's all he did he was just a very decisive person he said I'm very lowkey I'm just gonna do it yeah unassuming I'm just gonna I'm just gonna go win I'm gonna win the Super Bowl and then I can scream I'm'm debt free on the Ramsey Solutions Debt Free State. Worth it. I love it. And we got a gift for him, two every dollar subscriptions that he can use or give to someone else to kickstart their journey. Got those kids in their 30s.

We hand that stuff off right there. Keep it going. Keep it going. He said he wanted to be an example for them. That's how this works. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey you guys, health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer, and it's

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join at chministries.org slash budget at chministries.org slash budget. Our question of the day is brought to you by YREFY. Our defaulted private student loan payments dragging you down. YREFY could help you save thousands of dollars. Visit yrefy.com slash ramsey to see how they can help. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y dot com slash ramsey. Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Shelby in Idaho. My husband and I have been married for 15 years and have two children.

We're on baby steps four, 5, and 6. Last year he was diagnosed with leukemia and underwent chemo and a bone marrow transplant. My husband's estranged sister was a perfect match which probably saved his life. Now she has gotten herself deep in debt trying to flip houses and rent out Airbnbs and has started asking us for money. We already gave her several thousand dollars last month. We have heard from other relatives that she has started asking them for large amounts as well. My husband feels obligated to give her money because she saved his life and we know she'll be asking us again soon. How should we respond?

There was no, if I give you bone marrow, you give me money contract here, nor was there any implied thing like that. What you do want to do is help someone you love, anytime you can help someone you love. But no, he's not obligated to give her money to rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic because she's going down and if you give her ten thousand dollars you're in there it doesn't help she has bigger problems than ten thousand dollars if you give her a thousand dollars it doesn't help you're rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. So what you've got to do is say, okay she helped me, now

I'm going to help her. Now let's define what help is. What does sister really need? Well she needs to stop doing the stupid butt stuff she's doing that's killing her. Not you throw money into her LSD financial trip here. This is nuts. And so real help, real love is to sit down and say, sister, you gave me the gift of life and I'm going to give you a gift in return. The financial plan that you are on is going to bankrupt you. And I don't want to see you hurt. You need to stop this.

You need to confront her stupidity. That is an act of courage. That is an act of love. That is helping. Giving money, giving a drunk a drink, giving a money to a cocaine addict so they can buy their cocaine is not love. And this is financial cocaine this woman's on. I'm deeply leveraged. I'm losing money on Airbnb. Oh shoot me. You bought all... You got all your dad gum real estate advice off of tick tock. Oh my god, of course it's failing Yeah, you can't compare the health crisis that he went through and go

Hey, the quid pro quo is I support financial misbehavior for the rest of my life. That's not gonna work So it's gonna be a tough conversation. Well, and you can't save her Yeah, and it might hurt the relationship unless you got a million dollars You want to bail her out completely of all these mortgages you can't save her because the track she's on is a bankruptcy track this vending machine is gonna keep eating your money now the only thing you can do step in front of the train and say I love you stop the train because I love you I'm gonna tell you the truth no one's telling you the truth the Emperor has clothes. What you are doing is straight up stupid.

You're going to bankrupt. And most people won't tell somebody that they supposedly love the truth. They just don't do anything to keep from telling them because it sounds like conflict. But that's real love. That's real help. Real love is when my children were little, I made them brush their teeth so they have some later. Even if they don't want to. Real love is you did some uncomfortable things if you were a Ramsey child growing up, because we were not trying to raise great kids. We were trying to raise kids who became great adults. And so real love involved some things that were uncomfortable for their short term and comfortable for their long term. Like get your freaking homework done. In today's world it means when you're at Papa Dave's we're not big on screens. So grandpa and grandma we want to like talk to you and look at your freaking little eyes. Put that crap down you know. Oh my god and so

I mean yeah that that's real love. Does a four-year-old love that? No they hate it. And I want to go to Papa Dave's he won't let me play games for 73 hours on my iPad. Well then keep your little butt home because when you come to my house, Papa Dave's rules at Papa Dave's house. Sorry, that's the way that works. You've now entered my domain little person. That's how it works. So we love you so much. We're gonna do all kinds of wonderful things for your good, including hurt your little feelings. And that's what you need to do for your sister, buddy. Not give her money and support her stupidity in the name of, you helped me with my bone marrow. It's wonderful that you all have this kind of relationship that she was willing

to do that, because that's a painful operation and it's a hard process. But it doesn't mean you support her destroying herself. You do quite the opposite if you really love her. That's tough love. No darling. It's real love It's not tough love Tough love I mean that what's what's the opposite of tough love enabling Entitlement no now You've got a choice you got to got to choose healthy conflict. No more money for the failed program. We're not putting fuel in the Titanic. We need to pull up alongside the dock and get some fuel because we're going to go sink

this thing. Let's get the dinghies out. Not with Papa Dave's money. Not doing it. Nope, nope, nope. And not with your money. Stop it. It's not real love, guys.

You just love somebody. You have to be kind and courageous and very clear that they have to stop doing the thing that is hurting them and you will support them in that process, but you will not support them in the process of self-destruction because I love you, because you did something sacrificial for me. That's the very reason I will not participate in this delusional bullcrap. I mean people don't talk like that anymore but we need them to. That's real freaking

love. Dave is in Grand Rapids Michigan. Hi Dave, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, thanks for taking the call. Sure, what's up? So my wife and I are Living in a house were written from her parents and we're thinking of buying the place from them But my wife is very Nervous about the idea of getting into any sort of debt and I'm not sure that we've actually saved up enough to do it Are you debt free? We are.

We have always been. Good. How much money do you have saved? Well we have our six month emergency fund and then on top of that we have about 12 grand. Okay and how expensive is this property? We're actually in the process of trying to determine that. Oh come on, give me a range. Honestly, it could be anything from $90,000 to $145,000.

Okay. We don't know. It's not super expensive and $12,000 will get you into it. No, it's a... What's your household income? I have been bringing home consistently about $64,000 a year, and I'm hoping to have that up above 80 this year. She does not work outside the home? No we have two kids under three. Cool okay she works but just not outside the home. Okay. She does a lot of work.

I can imagine. Oh my gosh. The numbers all work. You could buy the house with $12,000 down on a 15-year fix, no problemo. Okay? No reason not to do it. The only question I've got for you is, if you were living in a one-bedroom apartment and this house came on the market, would you be interested in it? Or are you just ending up here because it happens to be all in the family? No I would be I would be interested in it the only thing about it is that we're out growing the house and so well if you're in a one-bedroom apartment or two-bedroom apartment you got two little kids or three bedroom whatever if you're renting somewhere you weren't emotionally attached to and had no relatives tied to it would you come by this house if If the answer is yes, then buy

it. You're financially ready. What do you think, George? Yeah. And if you want to save up a little more and do this in six months, that's fine too. You just got to weigh it out and go, we got to get a little less house, but mortgage payment is probably going to be about a thousand bucks. So it's reasonable for your income. Yeah. You're in a, the numbers work on this. You can do this on a 15 year fixed and you're fine, but they just don't buy something because it's handy and the in-laws said do it. That's never a good reason.

Buy it because it's something you would have bought anyway. And if that's the case, then game on, baby. You're ready. You've done a good job. Man, that's cool. This is the Ramsey Show. You spent years trying to get everything just right for your family.

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A well organized legacy is a gift to your family. That's nokbox.com slash Ramsey. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show where we help people it's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. George Campbell, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author is my co-host today. Open phones here at triple 8 8 2 5 5 2 2 5. He's also the co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruz, one of our top shows here on the Ramsey Network. If you've not checked that out on YouTube or podcast, you should. They are way more fun than they should be allowed and we even pay them for having that

much fun. I can't believe I get paid to do this. YouTube goof off. Just get on there and make yourselves really popular and I pay you for the opportunity. You greenlit the show. So, it's on you. so I'm telling you I actually did attend it finally yeah it was great and had a lot of fun with you you're one of our top performing episodes so no way yeah no I don't think you beat Sharon Ramsey's episode nobody beat Sharon you can't touch that if you do you don't tell her so I'm just saying

just let her she gets to win all the time. That's the rule at our house. All right Carly is in Washington DC. Hey Carly, what's up? Hi, so my question is my mom just paid off my brother's credit card debt which is about $70,000 what? Yeah, I know. I know. I know. And you even have thoughts on that. I do too. I begged her not to do it, but that's what happened. She's offering to give me

the same amount of money to be fair, I guess, or equal. Like we're just the two siblings. And I'm conflicted about whether to take the money. Are there strings attached? Is it a loan? No, no, no, no, it's just she just feels like... Has she got a lot of money? She does. She can afford to do it. I think she feels guilty for giving him the money because I think she knows she shouldn't have. guilty for for giving him the money because I think she knows she shouldn't have no no I think she just I mean my grandmother my wife are the same way

that whatever one of them gets the other one gets I mean it was no guilt it's just all I accused her of being a socialist but um but you know I don't think everything ought to be fair I think fairs where the cotton candy and the Tilted Wh is, but my grandmother and my wife are exactly the same way. They would definitely have done this. And no guilt at all. It's just like, that's what you're supposed to do.

You do it for one, you do it for the other. It's real simple in their minds. Yeah. And it was her idea? She came to you and said, hey, listen, you know what happened. I'd love to give you this money too. Yes, she came to me. Yeah.

Okay. I think you need to drop the guilt for taking it. Could you use 70 grand right now? Everybody could. Send it to me. Right. I mean, we have three kids, like, obviously it would be helpful, but we, you know, we're not like... You weren't asking for it. you're not needy, you're not begging. She has a million dollars or whatever, and if she gives away 140 of it at this age of life, it doesn't affect her, right? Right, correct. Here's my take. We're Southern Baptist over here, we call that blocking a blessing. You don't want to block a blessing.

That's what you're doing right now by not allowing your mom to give you this money. Don't do that I didn't say no I just felt like conflicted about it because also my brother does not have a lot of doesn't have a high earning potential like he just doesn't have that's not your fault the situation that I'm in with my husband and my kids it's not your fault that

okay you didn't cause any of this the situation that I'm in with my husband and my kids. It's not your fault. It's that. Okay. You didn't cause any of this. You just showed up to the party in the DNA pool. Right? You're the prodigal son's brother, right? Prodigal son misbehaved, dad comes home and says, hey, party at my house, prodigal son's back, and now you get to come to the party too and enjoy the feast. I see no problem with this.

Okay. Regardless of my opinion of going 70 grand to debt and then having to get out of jail free card, the fact that she wants to give you this money has no bearing on what happened. Any of that. As long as there's no, as long as she's not gonna come over and start managing your business after this, okay? No strings attached. She's good at boundaries and you are too, right? Yes. Do you harbor resentment for your sibling? You know, um,

a little bit, a little bit. There's like a lot of backstory here. Yeah, a little bit. I mean, I love him and I want to help him and I feel like we've done everything we can and he's just not taking the help, so it's hard. Yeah, yeah, you're a good person. You are, you are, good girl, I agree, I agree. Now the last thing is, there's a little technical issue here, that's more than you can give an individual, from an individual, without getting into gift tax.

So she needs to investigate with her tax preparer or her estate planning attorney. Write this down, the unified estate tax credit. She needs to use up some of her federal exemption on these two gifts to keep from getting gift taxed at 55% it is right now. So you've got to file all the right forms with the IRS. Mom's got a little paperwork to do her mom is gonna get spanked by the IRS and you don't want that there's no need one simple piece of paper will keep that from

happening. All right you you can I mean an individual cannot give an individual seventy thousand dollars in without gift tax and without utilizing something like the unified estate tax credit you using some of your federal estate tax Exemption towards the gift that's what it amounts to so please Make sure because mom may never file it, but someday they might audit her and then oh my goodness We're gonna have a 40 or a50,000 tax bill on these things. And you just don't want that. It's not a good idea. Open phones here at 888-825-5255.

You jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money. You know, that's... Last hour, we had the question about the bone marrow and do I have to take care of my sisters? Do I have to give her money for misbehaving with money? Now brother's misbehaving with money, mom bails him out. And so there's a, I think a lot of the questions that people have and a lot of questions we get around here are around this idea of how do I be kind to ridiculous extended family behaviors regarding money? Asking for money, expecting money, being entitled to money, mom, you know, taking care of basically enabling a brother probably is what she's saying. She's a little bit bitter about that. I don't blame her. And then how do I respond to her wanting to give me money so she feels better about herself?

Which is kind of what she's doing probably. But man, there's a lot of stuff going on there so um money does not make the world go around try it again money does not make the world it does not fix broken hearts it does not make bad behavior become good behavior it does not make lack of discipline look like discipline Money doesn't fix those things When you pour money on messes, it makes the messes bigger magnifies. It doesn't make them smaller It actually Yeah, it peels back any illusion that this was okay and makes it just really look stupid. Money does that. It magnifies good character and bad character, good behavior and bad behavior.

But money in and of itself is not a salve. It doesn't fix everything for you. I'll be okay. No, you won't. You'll still be mad. You'll still have a broken heart. be okay. No, you won't. You'll still be mad. You'll still have a broken heart. You'll still it's that's not what it's for. This is the Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Alright, so I was born and raised in Texas and I love the myth of the lone cowboy. You know the guy who doesn't need anyone or anything. It's a fun story and it's a lie. In our self-obsessed society, we're obsessed about our own diets,

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It's the last call for our two night virtual event, Dave Ramsey's Investing Essentials. It's set for May 21 and 22, and you do not want to miss this. I'll unpack my personal playbook on investing and real estate and show you how you can feel confident in your investments too. Tickets are $1.99. Snag a VIP ticket and you'll get two sessions with a Ramsey Preferred Coach. You can join from anywhere. Go to ramsysolutions.com slash events and get

your ticket today. George Campbell Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Michelle is in Cincinnati. Hi Michelle, welcome to the is in Cincinnati. Hi Michelle welcome to the Ramsey show. Hi Dave thanks so much for taking my call. I am on baby step 2. I have been on baby step 2 for about a year. My conundrum is I have an opportunity to take a job in a really remote location, really far away from family. My kids are grown, but I was widowed about 25 years ago and raised them all on my own.

But the positive to all of this is that it comes with a lot of financial benefit to help out with student loan debt and such. And I'm kind of feeling guilt for wanting to do this, going so far away from family, for financial. So I'm kind of like, is it loving money that I want to do this for? No, you love freedom and you're wanting to be free of the debt. Right. That's not loving money, that's wanting to be free. That's a valid sacrifice. It's a valid thing. So the, you know, it's what I always look at on something

like this is, um, what's the, uh, the return on the effort and what's the timeframe? Cause I could do anything for a short period of time. I don't want to sign up for 10 years in Uganda or whatever it is, right? I mean, no thank you. Two years. Two years. And how much do you make now?

How much would you make if you did this? And how fast will you get out of debt? Well, it would basically give roughly about $100,000 toward my student loan debt. So it would cut it over half and it would give me a lot of financial freedom after that two years like coming back and actually being able to spend time with grandkids and such. So you would be debt-free after two years? Close to debt-free, yeah. I would probably still have maybe about $30,000 in student loan debt.

But yeah. And if you stay the course you're on now, how long would it take to pay off the debt? Uh, hopefully social security will pay it off. Yikes. No, it won't either. It won't. No, it won't. So yeah, I'm 53. So you're saying you, you have no other real, I mean, it's kind of, how much

student loan debt did you run up? I, well, I ran up 120,000, but kicking the can down the road, as you say, it's close to about 165 right now. I used, yeah, I used it to supplement my income, raising my kids. When my husband died, my kids were young. We had nothing. It was a suicide, so we literally had nothing. So yeah, so I stayed at home, went to college late, and I did it so that I could be with them. How long ago was his death? 25 years ago. I was 26. So this has been following you forever.

For a while, yeah. And you could give up two years and be done Yes, and my kids are supportive. I think my I mean emotionally the trade-off is okay 25 years a hell Two years I can be rid of it. Mm-hmm. That's a good trade. The kids will be okay That is not you chasing money, it is you chasing freedom. Okay, I needed to hear that. I think from a Christian standpoint, that's what I hear. Yeah, I agree. It's not greed that's driving this. It's anything but. It's quite the opposite. You have had the hell beat out of you financially. Yeah. And you're wanting to get this behind you. Yeah, I Don't blame you. This is this is band-aid ripoff Yeah, and I'm good with that. I mean I was brought up by a Marine so I'm okay with that hard work

I don't have a problem with that. I just wanted to from a Christian financial So I wanted to make sure yeah, I don't I think it's quite the opposite from a Christian financial standpoint I think this time for my daughter, my sister, the widow to be free. Hmm. I think she's been under the thumb of the freaking government long enough with these student loans beating her to death. I would love for you to be free, daughter. Awesome. Now, what are they gonna pay at the remote location? Actual pay. Yeah, actual pay. It will come out to be about $95,000 gross.

And then they're going to pay off a bunch of your student loan debt and they're probably providing housing because you're in the middle of nowhere or something like that? Housing is cheaper. I'm going to be renting a room. Okay somebody so yeah, okay alright So and you have a hundred and twenty thousand left Roughly and they're gonna pay how much of that? Up to a hundred thousand dollars, so it's fifty thousand per year

Yeah, okay, then then you're making 95 and living in a no place Nowhere one bedroom. You should be able to pay off the rest of it. I don't want you to come home with any debt Right, that would be my hope. No, it's not a hope. It's a plan Not true. I mean you're making 95,000 They're paying a hundred of the hundred and twenty find the other twenty and two years ghetto be done with this thing Absolutely rear view mirror look in the past and go that's where that needs to stay yeah do you have any other debt I have a credit card of like 8,000 from like I had teeth repaired this year so okay you gotta stop you gotta stop using this stuff okay? Yeah. You gotta be clear your goal is freedom a hundred percent freedom cut the card up look at

your budget and go I'm not doing anything and these student loans are gonna die this this mess that that I've lived through is gonna be in my rearview mirror and I'm gonna have a fresh start when I am 55 years young. Yeah. The encore, the curtain goes up, you take a bow and you take one more act in the play. Yeah. It's gonna be amazing because you're gonna be first time you're gonna be free because you have poured your life out for everyone else to take care of the kids and to make sure everybody is okay and then to pay these stinking bills and now you're going to go give up two years of your life to take care of these bills.

You're a strong, cool woman. I like you a lot. You're amazing. Go get it done, sister. Get it done. But be 100% done when you come home. Don't screw around with this. Knock it out.

Be done with it. That's Don't screw around with this. Knock it out. Be done with it. That's very cool. I like it. First time she's going to be debt free in her adult life. It's going to taste different. Ouch. Asher's in Grand Rapids. Hey Asher, what's up? Hello. So I just want to, yeah, I was calling in because I have problems with like impulsive spending. Me too. Yeah. Like, but it's, it's bad. Like this, I'm 20 years old.

This is the first job that I've had and it's not making me much. It's only like 200 bucks a week, but I'm living with my parents, so it's not like I have to pay rent or anything like that. But, um, you in school? I like, I've been, I've been working. Are you in school? It's only a hundred bucks. I am not. No. Why are you only making $200? I'm only making 200 bucks a week because I don't have a license because I got into it too late and I'm still trying to get it now. I'm trying to get it now. Got into what too late?

So there was a whole thing that happened with my social security card getting lost and so I had to get that renewed and that took like two years. You don't have to have a social security card to get a driver's license, you have to have a birth certificate and you're in Grand Rapids you can get a birth certificate. Do your parents have your birth certificate? We do have it, but they told me I needed a social security card, which we got it all figured out. Who told you that? I'm getting the people at the social security card, which we got it all figured out. Who told you that? I'm getting the people at the Social Security, the people at the...

The Department of Motor Vehicles? Yeah. Okay, well let's talk about your spending here. You got no money to spend. So what are you spending your money on and how much? I'm getting 200 bucks a week. I've been working maybe four and a half months now and I've been spending it all on, like I've been really spending it all on online games and food, which is obviously not good

and I know it's not good and I need to get out of this rut. I just haven't been able to figure out the best way to do that. Yeah. Okay. Hang on a while. I'm going to send you a copy of my book, Breaking Free from Broke. Read through the whole thing, especially the Spending is Self-Controlled chapter. I think it's going to help you get control of this because you're too young to be making dumb decisions, which is when we all made them. But you can be set free of this. And go get your driver's licensing work 40 hours a week and it'll start to solve a lot of these problems

Now less video games more were now no excuses. This is the Ramsey show Hey you guys I'm not a fan of the big banks and you probably already know which ones I mean But I do like credit unions because they're non-profit organizations that focus on their members. And I'm proud to endorse Fair Wins Credit Union because they share the Ramsey mission of helping people get out of debt and live generously. In fact, they design products to help keep you from going into debt in the first place. Fairwinds has been in business for over 75 years and they serve hundreds of thousands

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They created just for Ramsey fans to help you take control of your finances That's fair winds fa I are Winds dot org Slash Ramsey. Hey guys, good news, pre-sale is on now for my new book, Build a Business You Love. If you're a business owner, you know running a business is hard. That's why I wrote this book, to share what we learned over the last 30 years so business owners can grow your business faster with fewer mistakes.

Pre-order your copy today and you'll get access to over $350 in bonus items only at ramsysolutions.com slash store. Ramsysolutions.com slash store. Pre-order today. George Campbell, Ramsey personality is my co-host in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage. Cameron and Faith are with us. Hey guys, how are you? Very good sir, how are you? Better than I deserve. Welcome where do

you live? We live in Oak Ridge Tennessee right outside of Knoxville. Awesomeness well welcome to Nashville and all the way over here to do your debt free scream how much have you paid off? We paid off a hundred and sixty one thousand four hundred dollars. Way to go how long did that take? 43 months. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? We started at $77,000 and now we're at $180,000. Oh I like that! Not bad in under four years, a little over three years. So what do you do for a living and how do you triple your income? Well I'm a mechanical engineer. I'm also a mechanical engineer.

And she... One of you wasn't working. You got it. That's it. So she was still in school when we started. Oh, okay. And then she jumped on and helped out quite a bit, obviously. And then both of you jumped way up quick on your raises as well.

That's right. You hit the ground running hard. Well, that's great. Yeah, engineers are the number one category of millionaires in our study of millionaires. And you got two of them. So you're in really good shape. This is building wealth for you. Double your chances there. I like it a lot. Very well done. Okay, what kind of debt was this? Student loans?

No, sir. It was our house. You paid off your house! Yes, sir. How old are you two? I'm 24. And I'm 27. That's illegal. You are so weird. I love you. What's this house worth? I'd say about 290 now somewhere that range Wow

How long you been out of school? I've been out just just around four years. Yeah, I've been out about two Okay, wow, and you have a three hundred thousand dollar paid for house your family's got to be looking at you like you've lost Like who are these people they didn't come from us They have some comments some good some bad. Yeah, I bet some jealous and some cheering you on that's right Yeah, I love it Wow, man three hundred thousand dollar paid for house in Oak Ridge, Tennessee Where'd you graduate from UT? No sir we were actually I originally from Memphis so we were a school local school there. Okay. Oh okay. All right. Wonderful. In terms of your your undergrad. Yes sir.

Okay. So are you working for who you working for in Oak Ridge can you say? I can say yeah it's Oak Ridge National Labs actually. Yeah I was thinking okay you know that's perfect. Wow very cool very cool good for you guys that's fun. So how did you get connected to all this Ramsey stuff? So I can attest to my mom she we were homeschooled and we started in the foundations and finance course for that. I love mom she's awesome. She is awesome she has been our biggest cheerleader through the years. I bet.

But I can thank her a lot for that. And then we just kind of did the Dave Ramsey method. We actually bought the house, or I bought the house prior to marriage. No score loan with Churchill Mortgage actually. Yeah. Yeah. So it worked out perfectly to a T. Those guys were super helpful through the whole process.

And we just ate away at it. We actually were here two years ago, super helpful through the whole process. And we just ate away at it. We actually were here two years ago, almost the day, for the first event up the hill. Oh yeah. That's right. And that's where we decided, you know what, we could knock this out whenever she graduates.

So that's what we did. We planned it out and. So you pre-decided that you were gonna be done with debt completely before you were 30. That's right. You have a set goal to pay it off in a certain amount of time? We did, yeah.

I bet a couple of engineers had a plan. Oh, of course. That's the only way we can live. So what was the original game plan? So the game plan was we were gonna pay it off by January 1 of this year, 2025. Her birthday is on the 30th prior to that. So we were trying to knock it out then.

We missed that date by eight days. Wow. So a little too bad. I'm gonna call that a bullseye. I think you're a failure. I don't think you made it. I think you should be real disappointed. Oh my goodness.

You guys are awesome heroes. Well done, well done. So Faith did either, well I mean you grew up in a family, Cameron, with homeschooling and foundations, okay? So Faith did your family look at y'all like, who have you married? A little bit. I actually had a similar story to Cameron where I took your class in high school. Actually Coach Bunch, he was my teacher there

and he still teaches personal finance, your fundamentals foundations class. Where is this? At Trinity Christian Academy. It's in Jackson, Tennessee. Yeah, okay. Yeah, wonderful. Thanks, Coach. Yeah, for real. He taught me then and we just kind of followed the principles and found him at college. And it just stuck. When you went through the curriculum, okay, one day, we're gonna do this stuff. We're gonna live debt free and see what happens. And I mean, you guys are living proof

of what it means to get started on the plan early. You know, we talk about financial peace babies and here you are, 24 and 27, no payments in the world. Yep. That's really weird. Now that's a home school curriculum and a high school curriculum. Phew, right there.

It works, way to go, Ramsey Education Team. Normalized it into where you went and then it went and got a, something that no one knows how to do, got a no score like you got for you and Whitney and then you paid off your home too from Churchill Mortgage, no credit score mortgage and that's at the same interest rate as everybody else

and then turn around and pays it off in 43 tiny little months. And man, that's amazing y'all. I'm so proud of you. You guys are like proof that we're going to be okay in America. Your generation, you're bringing it man. I love it. Way to go.

That's very cool. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? Got to have a plan. Absolutely. You're not going to get anywhere if you don't plan it out. Actually you will, you'll get nowhere. Yeah, your plan is so detailed you know within eight days of what it's supposed to land.

It's not a, this was not a plan lacking in detail. These are a couple engineers. There's one of the reasons engineers do so well is they plan and they like numbers and they're thinking about what it takes to win and process driven process driven process orientation you know it's exactly right way to go you two very very cool I'm proud of you how's it feel do you have any idea how rich you're gonna be I mean this is unbelievable it really hasn't hit yet we have a we've

had a couple months now of no mortgage payment so it feels odd the money just kind of sits there now I guess it's gonna have a fine a fine plan for that too. Yeah Yeah, you better be careful that you enjoy some of it that you invest some of it and that you're overly generous with some of it because that's where you are early and I mean you have a three hundred thousand dollar paid for house. You're making two hundred thousand dollars a year You don't have payment in the world and you have a $300,000 paid for house. You're making $200,000 a year. You don't have a payment in the world. And you have the ability to work together,

which most couples don't. And you have the ability to set a goal and hit it, which most people don't know how to do. I'm predicting, you know, probably a $30 million net worth at least, minimum. So I think that's where you'll land. So good job, man. You all are incredible.

It's absolutely. And all from a homeschool curriculum and a high school curriculum with a coach. That's incredible. So parents out there are going, I hope this sticks with the kids. Hey they're taking it all in. Even if they have their arms crossed the whole time, they can't not remember the time when Dave said, dead is dumb, cash is kings. You know, ignorance was bliss. And you go through that curriculum and now you know too much about car loans and budgeting and saving, and you guys are living proof this stuff still works.

Man, it's amazing. It's very, very cool. And we got two every dollar subscriptions for you. You can use those or pay it forward to someone else and get them started when they go, wait, what do you mean a no score loan? What are you smoking, man? You can just check this out.

Yeah, I got you. I got you covered on that. Well, way to go, you two. Cameron and Faith, Knox Knoxville Oak Ridge, Tennessee 161,000 paid off. That's house and everything at 24 and 27 years old. The house is worth 300 grand. They're making a hundred and eighty eight these days. You guys are awesome. You're heroes. Man, I'm impressed. Count it down down let's hear a debt-free scream three two one

We are debt free! Yeah! Amazing! Now if we could just clone them and put them all over America this country would be in a different place Dave. It's up to the parents and the teachers because we've got the curriculum obviously from the time I wrote the very first book people said this ought would be in a different place Dave. It's up to the parents and the teachers because we've got the curriculum obviously. From the time I wrote the very first book people said this ought to be taught in high schools. You're right and finally we developed a high school curriculum. Now 48% of the high schools have taught it. Over 6 million students

have gone through this in high school not counting homeschool. Wow. And it's pretty crazy how many and your teachers and your principals out there, you can do this. You educators, you can do this for these kids. You set them up. You moms and dads that are homeschooling, you can set them up. And these young people right here, man, they're going to be so generous, so wealthy. They're a wonderful couple.

I mean, wow, talk about winning. That's very cool. This is The Ramsey Show. These days the Internet is chock full of so-called investing advice from random goobs with zero qualifications. Listen folks, you deserve guidance from someone who knows what the flip they're talking about. That's why I recommend the SmartVestor program. SmartVestors can help you find a professional financial advisor who can teach you to make your own best decisions with your own money. Get connected at ramsysolutions.com slash SmartVestor. Again, ramsysolutions.com slash SmartVestor. Ramsey Solutions is a paid, non-client promoter of participating pros. Learn more at ramsay

solutions dot com slash smart vester. If you're a business owner or you know one, you know the truth about it. Running a business is hard. When you open your own business, you find out you have a jerk for a boss. Don't work your butt off man. Work you into the dirt. Work you like a rented mule. I'm just saying. It's hard out there man. It's hard.

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It's a big deal. Early access to the eBook and the enhanced audiobook are part of the package too. Pre-order at ramsesolutions.com slash store. Build a business you love. on sale now at a deal Ashley's in Atlanta Georgia hi Ashley how are you? I'm good how are you? Better than I deserve what's up in your world? Oh my question for you is should I sell my rental property to pay off my student loan debt. Wow, how much student loan debt you got? A lot, $338,000. That is a lot. Are you a doctor or a lawyer? Lawyer. Okay, and what's your income?

So excluding like the rental property, it's 95, around 95 to 100,000. How long you've been in law school? Since 2019. Okay when you're gonna start making some more money with your law degree? I don't know. Yeah that's a I guess that's a problem. Um, you spend a lot of money on a law degree because you could make a lot of money and now you're not making a lot of money. Right. Diesel mechanics make more than you. Yeah. So what are you going to do to get your career going kiddo? Um, change jobs. Let's start there. I guess. Okay.. Alright. And what's the rental property worth? The rental property is worth the same amount as my debt.

$338,000. That's the current value. No, I wish. So it won't pay off the student loan debt. How much do you owe on it? $176,000. Okay. So you get a on it? A hundred and seventy six thousand. Okay, so you get a hundred grand, a hundred and fifty grand out of it, right? Correct. Yeah. That'll definitely help. Instead of you being in debt for ten years, we can speed this process up by selling this rental property. You got any savings, anything else you could sell?

So I currently have a storage unit with some stuff in it that I've been trying to like sell all of that stuff out. And you're paying for the storage unit. Yeah. So let's free up money every nook and cranny in your budget and we're going to get you on a budget because that's going to be the real path out of here regardless of what happens. Getting your income up, getting your expenses down. But I'd love to see you debt free in under two years.

You think you could do that if you got intense? Oh, for sure. Especially if I sold the property, I've been torn between selling it and moving into it. And so I just- Where do you live in? Currently I live with my parents, but I was about to start renting. Good. That's fine. That's fine. I was about to start running. I believe I would. Now, I was one of the first in my family to get a formal education. Are you?

I am. Well, yeah. I am. Um, let me ask you if this is true and it's okay if it's not. Please tell me the truth, okay? I'm not forcing this on you because there's a lot of symptoms in this conversation that make me think this and I'm not sure if I'm right. Okay, so you can you can correct me. But did you kind of have the idea like I did that we were sold if you go get a law degree they're just gonna start sending you big checks it's gonna be like easy. Yep. So I probably said I wanted to be a lawyer as a kid. Yeah, you worked your tail off and were really really focused until you passed the bar and you thought at that point this was going to get easy. Yes, and it definitely did not.

It was the opposite. And it didn't. And you fell backward into a half-butt lawyer job. Yes. Instead of a really, really good one making $200. Correct. Yeah. Correct.

What kind of law are you doing? Is it the specific niche that you're in? That's not making it... Yeah, I would say it's the specific niche. It's real estate law. Yeah, so here's what I'm pointing to, and I live through this, and I know a whole bunch of other people that have lived through this same thing. Now that you have discovered that the education is not the cause of your success. Instead

you are going to be the cause of your success. That should give you some new energy to go kill some things and drag them home. So go get an apartment, sell this condo, clean out this storage shed, get your butt in gear and go make you some money. Because the Calvary is not coming, it's not going to get easy, you're the secret sauce to the success, not the degree. The degree as you have discovered and I have discovered is not magical. Right. You see what I'm doing? You see what I'm doing? Yes. So, the same incredible determination and sacrifice emotionally and psychologically that you used to go get this degree because it was supposed to be Willy Wonka's golden

ticket, I want you to use that same determination that's inside of you to go now be somebody. Okay. You follow me? Yes. Because this all looks like you peeked out at graduation and have been sliding ever since. You're living at home, you got a storage unit, you got this rental unit, you're in a substandard, you're not making the money you ought to be making as smart as you are and I want you to go get rid of every bit of that

I want you to go get some money you have earned the right to go get it You are a star go act like it go get some Get this stuff knocked out clean this stinking mess up get you a grown-up life like I have my own apartment I live my mom's living room up a freaking lawyer for God's sakes. You know, go stand up girl and get the storage unit cleaned out, get this thing sold and then start looking for a better opportunity and walk in with a little bit of like a lot of superstar confidence when you walk into the interview for the next place because you are that person. Okay?

That's what's going on. So you get our income to 200k, we get this mess cleaned up, this stuff's gone in a heartbeat. But we tell everybody this and then if you come from a demographic, we'll just call it. If you come from a background where the people around you were not people of four-year degrees, they tend to think sometimes in that culture that, in the culture that she and I are talking about, that if you get the degree it's Willy Wonka's golden ticket. And people that have, that are like third generation, have had college degree, college degree, college degree, they know it's not. They know it's not the cause of success. That it's just some tools in your belt that you still gotta get up, leave the cave, kill

something and drag it home. You still gotta go be somebody. You still gotta double up your fist and bust some noses. You still gotta push out there and make it home. You still got to go be somebody. You still got to double up your fist and bust some noses. You still got to push out there and make it happen. Your degree is not a guarantee of success. It's quite the opposite. It'll actually hold you back if you stop. But if you come out of that and the people around you didn't know that, then you believe that and it messes with you. So it's part of where the student loan crisis has come from. Everyone should go watch Borrowed Future

on our YouTube channel. It's our documentary on the student loan crisis and it explains all of this beautifully. Falls right in line with every bit of that. Wow, you're cool. I like you a lot. You're gonna do good. This is The Ramsey Show.

Hey, you're still here? What are you doing? You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey Network app, right? All you gotta do to finish the episode is search Ramsey Network in the App Store, Google Play Store, or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for free. Yep, you heard me right, for free. Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show. Ba-da-bing, ba-da-boom. Alright, I'm getting out of here. Enjoy. We'll see you on the app.