The Ramsey Show - Don't Leave Your Financial Future To Chance

Starting point is 00:00:04 Brought to you by the Every Dollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. George Camel, Ramsey Personality, number one best-selling author and co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour,

Starting point is 00:00:34 is my co-host today. The phone number here is AAA-825-2-2-25. The call is free, and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. Josh is in Virginia Beach. Hey, Josh, what's up? Oh, not much. How are you doing?

Starting point is 00:00:50 Better than I deserve. How can we help? Oh, just trying to figure out what I need to do and get myself out a financial pit. What's going on? What happened? Okay, well, I closed my business and moved down to, move to West or move to Virginia to try to just go work somebody else, get rid of a hassle. all nine yards there.

Starting point is 00:01:14 And even though I'm making good money, I've still got six bucks in my bank account. By the time, I pay bills. How much debt do you have? Combined of my old business, around $100,000. Okay. And how much do you make now? I'm making right at $85,000 a year at the new job I started.

Starting point is 00:01:35 I was making about $80,000. Good for you. Josh, how long ago did you close your business? Literally, actually, my last day in my shop was the first year. And I've been about eight months now. What kind of business was it? It was auto repair. How long did you have it?

Starting point is 00:01:56 15 years. Wow. That's kind of heartbreaking, isn't it? It is. Yeah. There was a lot of bad decisions and choices there kind of led me into a financial pit and just, you know. So how much of the 100-K is bad? business debt and what kind of debt is it?

Starting point is 00:02:14 I got the taxes and they hit me with a bunch of penalties and everything, so I got probably about $70,000 in the taxes with penalties and then just the vendors and everything and probably about another $15,000, $18,000. Okay. That's $85 and then the other $15,000 is worth. Yeah. Well, actually, then I got my vehicle payment, or my vehicle is $22,000, I still owe on it. And credit cards, I'm right about $3,000 in credit card debt.

Starting point is 00:02:47 Yeah. What's the vehicle? Or it's a Jeep. Okay. What's it worth? Probably 17. You're single? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:02:58 Okay. All right. I've been through closing a business and the heartbreak of that and the gut punch that that was to my confidence. And so sometimes in these situations, it's more about confidence and believing than it is an actual math problem. You've got a bit of a math problem, but it's not overwhelming. But it's also believing that Josh is a good guy. Josh can win. Josh knows how to do big things again. And Josh does. He ran a damn thing for 15 years. Okay. You just made a few mistakes and got tripped up. And so now we've got to work our way out of those things. But if you're single in

Starting point is 00:03:41 making 85, we can address these things and push your way through it. So if I'm you, how old are you? Oh, 42. Okay. So if I'm you, I don't have anybody to tell what to do except the guy in my mirror. And so I'm going to set up camp in the cheapest possible, safe and clean, one-bedroom apartment, and then I'm going to start working all the time, spending nothing and cleaning up this debt as aggressively as I can. You could think about selling the Jeep, but, meh, maybe not. It's not that big a deal. It's not your biggest problem.

Starting point is 00:04:18 Your biggest problem by far is taxes. Are you paying anything on those right now? Not yet. I mean, I've just been paying all the other debts and everything. I've been trying to pay all the personal debts. Yeah, and the vendors that were your friends. Right. So I'm trying to put, you know, and that's where my whole paychecks now.

Starting point is 00:04:37 I was going from other than my Jeep. payment, which it got behind and they had double payments up on it. Yeah, you need to get it caught up. But what happened was, is you were in a tailspin, and you were dizzy, and the chaos came in, and so you were doing a bad job, a disorganized job, because of the failure and the loss of confidence, failure on the business. And that's normal, and I don't blame you for that, but I just want to give your permission to be where you are, and now let's fight our way out of it. So here's what I want you to do. I want you to get above this problem and get away from all the emotion and just look at the facts. The facts are we got

Starting point is 00:05:16 85,000 coming in. These $15,000 worth of vendors will work with you. They'll probably settle for pennies on the dollar. If you'll go to Ramsey Solutions.com and click on tax professional on the ELP side, they'll help you set up a payment plan on the tax and keep them from coming down in your head randomly because they will randomly come in and screw up your life. Get the credit card paid off and get the Jeep paid off, the vendors paid off, and then work on the taxes. And so, you know, work these off smallest to largest. The good news is you have a very, very marketable skill for a side hustle called fixing cars. Did you come out of this with a tool set?

Starting point is 00:05:58 Yes. Okay. Yeah, I mean, and that's where my, that was another issue I'm at right now is I'm renting a one-bedroom apartment. Good. The utility, everything is $800 a month, which is dirt cheap. Right. That's good. Excellent.

Starting point is 00:06:12 But if I could find something that I had a little bit of space to work, I could do sidework and make money on. Yep. But that's also a gamble. Well, I mean, here's the thing. I want you to go get some side work. And there are guys that roll up in the parking lot here at Ramsey and work on people's cars in the parking lot while they're at work. Mobile repair. and they don't need a space

Starting point is 00:06:38 because there's a break job going on out in the parking lot right now probably is half the time I'm out there. That business is blowing up because you can start it with nothing. Yeah, because you and all you need your tool set and you can do the basic stuff, some maintenance stuff. Obviously you can't pull an engine in the parking lot of their office, but you can do some of the other stuff and make some really good side money while you're doing this. And then, George, I think we need to put him on every dollar budget

Starting point is 00:07:04 and take the 85 plus any side hustle money we can scrape together and then start working at a debt snowball. Yeah, I mean, if you're saying your rent is pretty cheap, your expenses are pretty cheap, sounds like most of his income is going out to those debt payments. But if we can throw a couple grand at that debt a month, we can clean this up in a couple years. And I want you to call those vendors. I know they're the ones that are tugging at your heart the most.

Starting point is 00:07:25 But if you owe a guy $5,000 and he hasn't been paid in nine months, just say, hey, man, I'm over here I'm living in one bedroom. I'm broke. what will you take to settle this debt? I want to stand up and pay you, and what would you take to settle it? And you owe him $5,000. He'll probably say,

Starting point is 00:07:40 hey, send me a couple grand, we'll call it a day. Get that in writing so it doesn't come back to haunt you and then send him a couple grand. They'll settle with you, though, vendors will. But the thing is,

Starting point is 00:07:49 when you're a small business guy like that, most of those vendors are your friends. And so you don't want to, you don't want to pee on your friends, right? But in this situation, I'm just going to, I'm going to ask for some mercy. You know, like when you're a kid, uncle, right?

Starting point is 00:08:02 You got me down, Uncle, right? And they'll be shocked to hear from you. Well, they'll be pleased that after nine months that they got anything. Exactly. They thought you were gone. And that's the thing. So they'll settle with you. This is not like some stupid credit card company with some collector in a cubicle 500 miles away

Starting point is 00:08:20 who can't keep a real job and is calling you 42 times. That's not who we're dealing with. We're dealing with a guy you know down the street. Hey, George Camel here. A few years ago, someone stole my identity. And let me tell you, that is not. not a quick fix. It takes hours on the phone, piles of paperwork, and a whole lot of stress trying to untangle the mess. And even after that, there's this nagging paranoia because your

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Starting point is 00:11:33 running literally today. So check it out. Julie's in Houston, Texas. Hi, Julie. How are you? Hi, doing well. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So I initially attempted to enter into an agreement with my father to purchase a house that he had inherited from my great aunt. And I sort of had to compromise on the purchase price by giving him an upfront $5,000. to remove the lien that was on the house. That lien was a Medicaid lien.

Starting point is 00:12:11 He could not sell the house unless that lien was removed. And so I did that with the understanding that we were good with the agreement and the purchase going forward. But he ended up using that money to remove the lien and then decided that he's going to sell the house for more money than our agreement because that's what's best for him. You know, I told him that I expected to be paid back if that was his decision. But I feel like this is just another way that he has sort of been dishonest and hurtful, I think, financially in our relationship,

Starting point is 00:12:56 and it makes it complicated that he's also my dad. And I know that I'm called to honor this relationship, but I'm, I do feel like there is some financial issues between us that I'm having a difficult time navigating and just would like some advice on how to go forward. All right. So you said another. So this is not the first time he's done something underhanded or dishonest to you. I feel like this is the worst where it's pretty much.

Starting point is 00:13:31 time. There's a pattern, and you know that this guy is a crocodile. The pattern is we're very generous with him, and he loves our generosity. You know, we've purchased transmission that has happened. No, that is not true. You're putting sugar on top. You're putting sugar on top of a card. He loves that he can take advantage of you. You have felt taken advantage of as a pattern, and yet you gave him $5,000, which you should not have done. Because by the way, you can have a lien removed from the house at the closing.

Starting point is 00:14:09 You don't have to do it before the closing. So that you could have given the title company the purchase price and they could have removed the lien and then given him the net proceeds, which is the way a normal human does a transaction if you're not a crocodile. Okay? So here's the thing. You've got to separate your, the, you do not on. When the Bible says to honor your parents, it does not say to honor your parents' misbehavior.

Starting point is 00:14:38 It's honoring the office of father, the office of mother. And that's like, for instance, I agreed with almost nothing that Joe Biden did or said when he was the president of the United States. Some of you loved him. I didn't. Okay. But the Bible calls for me to honor those that are in power and pray for them. so I'm going to honor the presidency, but not the things that Joe did as president. So I can honor my father, but I don't have to honor his cocaine use.

Starting point is 00:15:12 I'm not saying my father does cocaine. That's not what I'm saying. But the point being, okay, that your dad, you can honor the position of father and say, I honor you as my dad, but I cannot do financial transactions with you anymore because I can't trust you. Yeah. That's not dishonoring. It's just observation. I think I know how this is going to turn out.

Starting point is 00:15:38 I do, too. He's going to be pissed next time he can't take money from you. Well, I think he's going to sell this house and he's going to feel real rich for three years. And he's basically selling the inheritance that could have gone, you know, to my grandkids that I was even willing to purchase and take on, you know, that responsibility to give something, you know, to be. Jerry, I'm sorry, but there was no generational rel with a crocodile. That was an illusion. Yeah. You need to let that go.

Starting point is 00:16:12 That's gone. He owns the house, and he decided not to sell it to you. But once he sells and he's out of money, I know he's going to depend on me. No, he's not. No, he's not, because I'm not going to give him any more money. You can't depend on me if I say no. When he steps out that door, there's going to be no doormat named Julie waiting to fund his misbehavior again. So you get to set the boundary.

Starting point is 00:16:36 There's no depending on you anymore. You're not going to enable him. I'm not required to care for him and his old age. No, absolutely not. He's a grown adult. He has nothing. He has no savings. That's his problem.

Starting point is 00:16:49 Here's the hard part, Julie. Nothing you could do could change that. Because you just showed him. If you give him 10 grand, it's gone. It doesn't matter. It's an endless pit. You do not owe him. You're a classic enabler.

Starting point is 00:17:05 Okay. I mean, you're just handing out money thinking it's going to make everything okay. It never makes everything okay. It just makes it more of what it already is. You're not helping him when you participate in his crocodile tears. You're harming him. And so you just stand back and go, you know, I love you. You got issues. And I hope it all works out for you. And, you know, if you need, if you need, if you're out of food and you're hungry, I'll buy you a Kroger card. which does not allow alcohol or cigarettes on it. So it only allows food. So there you go.

Starting point is 00:17:43 What's you going to do with the proceeds from the house? He's going to take them and use them and blow him. That's what he's done his whole life. He's going to pay off his debt. He's going to pay off his debt. And then it's going to be gone. And my thought was, well, if he ever needed anything, at least we'd have an asset where we could pull out an equity line of credit or something.

Starting point is 00:18:00 You know, if there was ever an emergency, we would have a source of wealth. to help him. And instead of trying to reason through that with him. He's not the problem. He's not the problem you are. Because I can't get you in this conversation to recognize that crocodiles do one thing and that's bite. And every time I talk about it, don't feed the crocodile.

Starting point is 00:18:19 All you do is figure out a way to get the food out. Well, I don't know how to navigate family holidays. Like, how do you even have relationships with something like? If you would like to come over and eat, that's fine. But I don't give you money. If the only way you want to come to Christmas is for me to give you $5,000, I guess we're not going to see you at Christmas. And if he chooses not to come, that's on him. I think you're trying to save this relationship that is broken.

Starting point is 00:18:48 With money. You're trying to grow this guy's character. I recognize. Julie, I can't help you. This is the 14th time you've argued with me and you called and asked us what to do. What you have is a boundary problem. You are a classic enabler. Go see a therapist.

Starting point is 00:19:02 Somebody needs to walk you through how to say no. You've gotten this so tangled up that somehow it's all going to be okay someday. It's not going to be okay. The guy's a freaking crook. I'm sorry, he's your father, but he's a crook. He's a bad dude. Don't participate with him in his delusional crap. You're not helping him.

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Starting point is 00:21:09 Limited time offer, visit angel.com slash Ramsey for details. Stephanie is in Sacramento. Hi, Stephanie. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Good. Well, I'm kind of in a dilemma. I'm currently on Baby Step 5 and I finally actually reached that 15% for my retirement. Good. But I'm going to be needing a new car. in the next year or two. So I'm just wondering if you recommend backing off of investing to be able to save more in anticipation of a new car or how should I navigate that.

Starting point is 00:22:02 Typically in a budget, if you're only putting 15% away and you have your emergency fund and you have zero other debt, you should have some margin to save for a car. Yeah, I do. I have about 13,000 saved up right now. Okay. And what's the car you're driving worth? Um, it's probably worth about $15,000, but it, you know, it has 150,000 miles on it. I know, but if you took, so if you bought a car today, you could buy almost a $30,000 car.

Starting point is 00:22:29 Right. Yeah. What's wrong with that? Well, I worry, because the last two cars I've had have essentially blown up, and I've been, like, fourth to go into debt, um, to be able to get a new vehicle. So I'm just, oh, it just kind of worries me a little bit. You're worried that a $30,000 car is going to blow up? Well, no, not a $30,000 car.

Starting point is 00:22:50 That's what we're talking about. That's what we're talking about, aren't we? I guess so, yeah. Okay. I think you have the trauma from the past vehicle stuck in your head and a $30,000 car that you do a pre-purchase inspection on and you buy a quality, make-model year. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:23:04 It's going to be just fine. So how much are you looking to spend? Well, I mean, the new and used ones I'm looking at with like similar to my current vehicle are about that 40,000. range. So that's what my goal is. I'm trying to get to 40, and I'm just holding my bread. What is your vehicle? It's a 2019 Jeep Grand Cherokee. Okay. And what are you wanting? A brand new cheap current, or almost brand new Jeep. You want another Jeep? Probably. What were the ones that blew up on you?

Starting point is 00:23:35 I don't, should I, should I give that information over the radio? Inquiring minds want to know. Did they blow up or not? If they blew up, it's okay to say it. I mean, my previous one before this was a day. type of Jeep and then before that was, oh, I can't even remember, but it was like a small little. Okay. Are you single? I am.

Starting point is 00:23:55 I'm a single mom. What is your household income? I make about $6,000 a month. Okay. How long have you been listening to us? I, well, I actually, when I finished my school, I kind of did a deep dive to be able to pay off my student loans and debt by using your method. Okay.

Starting point is 00:24:15 So what do we say about cars? is the maximum car you ought to purchase. Do you remember? Yeah, I think is it like, I can't remember the ratio, but it's like a percentage of your annual income. Right. Which would not be 40. Yeah. It's too much.

Starting point is 00:24:33 Okay. I wouldn't spend that much on a car in your situation. So I'd go get a 30. And so two things I want you to come away with. And George said it, and I don't want you to miss it. Get a pre-purchase inspection. If you've got a Christian Brothers automotive in your area, go by and see them. They do a great job, if not find a reputable, independent car mechanic and ask them what they'll do,

Starting point is 00:24:56 what they'll charge you for a pre-purchase inspection. It might be $100. Take it by there. The second thing I'm going to tell you is to read about the particular type of car that you're going, that you're thinking of purchasing and what the reliability factor is. Because there's all kinds of guys. up out there on cars. And it may or may not be accurate, but at least you want to read about it and try to figure it out. You might learn that specific gear, make model. You could also ask that guy,

Starting point is 00:25:23 that mechanic, you know, does this car have a good reputation? Okay. I'll give you an example. The car you're talking about does not have a good repair reputation. It's not got a good repair reputation. So you may want to look elsewhere. But you can look around, make sure they may have fixed them. They may be better in recent years. But five years ago, I would have told you, just don't buy that based on just what I've heard, okay? The one you're driving, the one you're driving, okay? And the last one you had blew up, so maybe it's time to switch, we switch makes and models from try somebody else.

Starting point is 00:25:56 Yeah, just check it out. That's the point. You don't do it based on a couple guys on a podcast, but I want you to check it out. I want you to read if you can get a hold of something like consumer reports or anything on Kelly Blue Book is fine. Edmund's car guide's got really good articles on repair. things and things are going on.

Starting point is 00:26:17 There was a few years ago. Oh, gosh, it's a long time ago now. It's a decades ago. But I remember Cadillacca came out with a front wheel drive, and they put an aluminum block engine in the thing, and they were, you couldn't find any of them with an engine in them. They'd all blown. Oh, because a piece of crap.

Starting point is 00:26:32 And so anybody looked at that Cadillac looked at a cross-eyed that knew anything about cars that said, don't buy that car. That's 20-year-old information, okay? It's not current information, but, or older even, probably 30. But anyway, point being, you can find out from a mechanic from people that know cars that that model has issues, that type of car has issues, don't go that way. And you can just research that and figure it out. And so I want you to do that. And then I want you to have the car checked out.

Starting point is 00:26:59 And I think 30 grand is plenty of dispense. So you've almost got enough now. But please do not walk into the Jeep dealership because they're going to steer you to the new cars and say, we can get your payment down, whatever you want it to be. No payments. You've got to go to an independent dealers where you're probably going to find the best price. Paying cash. No payments. No payments. And if you're not a millionaire, always buy used. Yeah. No payments. No car payments. Did I, did you hear me? No car payments, people. Car payments are the siren song of the middle class. If you want to be middle class or below,

Starting point is 00:27:29 the rest of your life, keep a stinking car payment. Well, I was forced to buy a car. Well, I had to buy a car. Well, that car's not safe. It needs an airbag. And you're talking to a guy who the, when I was growing, up the only airbag and the passenger seat was your mother-in-law. Oh, sick burn. There was no airbags. So come on, guys. We lived through all of that. So you can get a car that's safe and reliable that you pay cash for and no car payments.

Starting point is 00:27:59 It's the largest thing that people buy that go down in value. And they all go down in value. Like a rock. That's where Chevy got that. All right. Open phones at AAA 825. 5-2-2-25. Steve is in Idaho. Hi, Steve, what's up? Hey, how are you doing, Dave?

Starting point is 00:28:18 Better than I deserve. How can we help? So I have a house that I'm in the market to sell. I'm up here in Bonsbury, and for about 500, 550. And we want to move down to Court Lane, which is about an hour and a half south of here. and I have a daughter and granddaughter that lived down there and we thought we'd be closer to the granddaughter and help out. She's a single mom to help out with stuff. And we would, when we would put up herself, we'd just go down and buy something down there.

Starting point is 00:28:51 But lately I've been thinking maybe I should just rent rather than buy. How old are you? Where do you think of that? I am 68. Okay. Are you in good health? Oh, yeah, pretty good. Okay.

Starting point is 00:29:05 So you probably make it to 88 or 90 something. Yeah. On average. My dad made it to 98. Okay. Well, somewhere in the 90s then. All right. So we got 20, 25 years.

Starting point is 00:29:16 So the house that you're in is 550. Yeah. How long you had it? Ten years. Okay. What did you buy it for? Two... Yeah.

Starting point is 00:29:28 So it doubled in 10 years. 30. And guess what? Ten years before that, it was 100. Yeah, probably. Yeah. So you just lost $400,000 in this conversation while you were a renter. Well, maybe, but...

Starting point is 00:29:43 No, not maybe. I mean, from 68 to 98. Okay. Oh, okay. I've lost... That's 30 freaking years. You lost 400 grand or 500 grand if you don't go buy a house. I don't have to mow the lawn.

Starting point is 00:29:55 I don't want to pay property tax to... Right now. You're paying property tax as a renter. Well, for $400,500,000, you can pay somebody to mow the lawn. Yeah, I could do that. So you don't think that's a good idea. I'm positive. It's not a good idea. What would a house over there cost?

Starting point is 00:30:16 I could buy. This house is about 3,400 square feet. I could buy... So you downsize and pay cash? Yeah. If you pay cash for a house and you own it, your costs don't go up except the insurance and the taxes. If you're a renter, 100% of the rent goes up. Can you imagine how much your rent will go up in 25 years? You want to screw up your retirement budget?

Starting point is 00:30:41 You want to mess up that golden rocking chair on the front porch? Yeah, be a renter. That'll screw it up. Don't do that, man. Hey, this is Dr. John Deloney. I take my sleep seriously because better sleep means better health. And if you've been losing sleep or waking up sore because you've got some old, thin, gross mattress that wasn't designed with you in mind, it's time to make a chance. it's time to make a change.

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Starting point is 00:32:47 standing still. Y-Refi helps borrowers explore refinancing options that can help you start making progress. Go to Y-refi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Jill in Maryland. When you say invest in something you understand, do you mean the investment category such as balance, growth, and aggressive growth? Or are you referring to the mutual fund details themselves, such as admin fee, performance, what types of funds it contains, et cetera. I want to invest for retirement, but currently my money is just sitting in a savings account

Starting point is 00:33:23 because I don't know what questions to ask. So you say don't invest in anything you don't understand. So how do you understand it? I think part of that is knowing how the thing works, the mechanics of how a mutual fund works. A lot of us are putting money into this fund. It's across 90 to 200 plus companies. We're rooting for the growth and revenue in this company,

Starting point is 00:33:46 and therefore the shares we bought grow. Okay. Can you define a mutual fund? That's your start. Can you tell me how mutual fund works in general? And then if you're going to buy a growth-stock mutual fund, as an example, can you tell me what that is, what the difference in that and a growth and income are? Not a substantial difference.

Starting point is 00:34:04 Growth is buying stocks. It's a growth-stock mutual funds. So it's buying stocks that are growing. Because every mutual fund has an objective. So the objective is growth. And it's usually in the name. So growth and income, a bond mutual fund. Yeah, growth and income will have bond and large company stocks.

Starting point is 00:34:19 And it's the calmer of the two. Okay, that's the first two things. So what is a mutual fund? How do they work? Basics, primitive. They're like a seventh grader can understand it. Okay? Most seventh graders.

Starting point is 00:34:33 And then secondly, the type of mutual fund you're looking at. And then thirdly, understand the history of the particular fund and the market in general. Okay. So, for instance, a lot of the mutual funds have really good. I was looking at one the other day with American funds. Okay. So I'm not endorsing. I'm just saying they got a great brochure.

Starting point is 00:34:55 So you can pull up the American Fund's brochure on ICA Investment Company of America, which is a growth in income. Okay. That thing's like 80 something years old. It's ancient. Been around forever. So it's got a good track record. Multi-billion dollar fund.

Starting point is 00:35:11 And they've got a great brochure. So you could say, okay, what does this? fund do, it's a growth in it. What does this fund do when the market's up? What does this fund do when the market's down? What does this fund do when there is a, when the president decides to bomb Iran? And you look back in history and it'll have different dates of things that happened and what that fund did and what the market did during those dates. The reason you want to get a little bit of a history lesson is that you're trying to be comfortable when things happen. in the current, or right over the edge of the future, that you don't get nervous and jump out.

Starting point is 00:35:51 Okay, so if you've studied the roller coaster and the roller coaster is safe, because what goes down, what goes up will come down, what goes down will go up, and we can ride the roller coaster with safety, then it's just the thrill of the ride. But if we think the thing might come unjointed while we're on it and land on our head, then we're not going to feel good about that. But that's knowledge of that roller coaster. An example would be this, okay? If you drive down the street and you're looking at homes and the vibe in the air,

Starting point is 00:36:27 the way the homes are kept up, the way cars are parked, the people walking around, you're looking at them, you don't feel comfortable, well, you're looking at what's going on in the neighborhood, and you're making a decision, this isn't a neighborhood I should buy. in. You're driving down a street. Everything's very calm. We don't even see any cars. All we see are 25-year-old oak trees, you know? Well, this is an older neighborhood, this very settled, feel comfortable with that. And you can look at the track record of that neighborhood and say, in the past 20 years, what has that done? And this other neighborhood might be trending the wrong way. And so same thing with mutual funds. You get comfortable with the track record, the history.

Starting point is 00:37:09 And you've heard the disclaimer, past performance is not indicative of future returns. That is disclaimer bull crap. Of course past performance is indicative of future returns. If you look at the past performance of Scotty Sheffler, who just won a golf tournament, it is indicative of whether he's going to win next week or not. You know, if you look at the past performance of Michael Jordan, you can tell he's going to win basketball. Right? It is indicative. Of course it's indicative. You know, you look at the past performance of this neighborhood. It's indicative that houses are going to continue to go down. This place is turned into a

Starting point is 00:37:49 ghetto. Of course it is. So ignore that. Look at the past performance. Get comfortable. This fund has outperformed the S&P 500. 19 of the last 20 years. Okay. But you think it might do it again. This fund has never outperformed the S&P 500. You think it ever will? Probably won't. You think it ever will? I mean, this is pretty basic common sense stuff, right? So, A, what is a mutual fund?

Starting point is 00:38:16 B, what's the category of mutual fund mean? What am I buying? And C, the track record of the fund and the market. If you understand those, you don't have to understand 12b-1 fees. If you understand those, you don't have to look at expense ratios. That stuff doesn't kill you. What kills you is getting scared and jumping out. or investing in the wrong thing, which is a lot of where that advice comes from.

Starting point is 00:38:37 If you can't explain it to me and you got all your money sitting in it, that's dangerous. Which is exactly why the crypto bros are all mad at me, because the crypto has only one reputation. None. And they can't even agree on the definition of it and what it's doing. What it is or what it is. Well, it's blockchain. You just don't understand. Yes, I do understand blockchain.

Starting point is 00:38:58 I understand mining it. I understand the electrical costs. I understand all that. None of that matters. what matters is what's the track record of this sucker scares me to death that's quite the roller coaster way up way down we yep I mean what's the track record of gambling with a slot machine lose all your money until just before you leave and then you make your money back so you stay another four hours and lose all your money again that's the track record of a slot machine

Starting point is 00:39:27 so understand what the track record of this stuff is okay and then decide whether this is a stupid idea or a good long-term investment. And that's the route I would go. So, but this lady, George, she's in your, in my category. When you ask questions like this, the mutual fund details such as admin fee performance, what types of funds it contains, et cetera, it'll be stocks it contains. You're probably nerding out a little much there. I think she's probably, has a natural tendency towards nerd. I don't want you to go so far into this that you get paralysis of the analysis and don't do anything. The number one key to investing is do some.

Starting point is 00:40:08 Standing on the sidelines looking at it, do some. A guy asked me the day, he said, you've had eight bestselling books. How do you write? And I said, you start writing. And one day you'll finish. How do you know if you're a writer, if you're writing? Right.

Starting point is 00:40:22 We don't talk about it. How do you know if you're a good writer? You probably never will. I'm still not a good writer. I'm a good salesman. So none of these books are dadgum literary works of art. I can tell you that. But it makes it very readable for people like me.

Starting point is 00:40:36 I know. Stop their fifth grade reading level. That's what I am. I'm the guy that puts the cookies on a shelf for regular people, but where we all reach them. But that's it. I'm happy with that. But what makes you a writer? Right.

Starting point is 00:40:46 What makes you an investor? Invest. What makes you a wise investor? Invest over time and make money. And you can be a super nerd and be broke. Oh, all the time. That exists. So you don't need to know about all the nitty-gritty.

Starting point is 00:40:58 Now we do that, like our investing essentials event. We actually do walk through this. We have a chart and graph and here's how to pick the mutual funds. So we get a little bit nerdy. If you're having trouble sleeping, we are doing an event you can watch and you'll go right to sleep. It's the super nerd event. It's called Investing Essentials. George loves it.

Starting point is 00:41:14 I have a good time. It wakes me up. It energizes me to choose mutual funds. It's the type of event that I said that I got in business to not do. And now I'm doing it. Sorry. Well, the people demanded it. They're like, Dave Ramsey's investing playbook.

Starting point is 00:41:31 I'm going to show you what I do. All the nerd analysis I do on real estate. I'm going to show you all of it. And you're going to love it if you're nerd. But if you're not, you're going to be going, I just cured my insomnia. There's a few tickets left. I think it's a virtual event. So, of course, there's tickets left.

Starting point is 00:41:45 There's room. Always room in that room. I like that. Yeah, come on out, guys. It's going to be, what, September 1st and 2nd? Yes. And again, it's virtual. So you can join us from anywhere.

Starting point is 00:41:53 There's even a replay. You can catch if you can't make it each night for those two hours. We'll do our best to make the root canal not hurt. Once you start going into Form. for internal rates of return. That's like some goodwill hunting stuff, Dave. I got to admit. As a dad of young kids, I'm starting to think a lot more about the world they're growing up in and how I'll help them make sense of it as they get older. And that's why I like World Watch, a video news service for preteens and teens. Because one thing I know for sure, if you don't teach

Starting point is 00:42:38 your kids how to understand the world, somebody else will. And these days, that could be TikTok, YouTube, Instagram influencers, or whoever happens to show up in their social media feed. Worldwatch's 10-minute videos help young people understand what's happening in the world through a Christian worldview without all the outrage, negativity, and noise that is everywhere these days. The reporting is factual, engaging, and designed specifically for pre-teens and teens. And World Watch creates opportunities for something every family needs more of, meaningful conversations. Instead of just reacting to headlines, kids learn how to think about what's happening in the world and parents get a chance to keep those conversations going at home.

Starting point is 00:43:16 because when my kids are old enough, I want them informed, not overwhelmed. And right now, you can get a 30-day free trial. Just go to worldwatch.com news slash Ramsey or use promo code Ramsey to get started. That's worldwatch. dot news slash Ramsey. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. David is in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, David. How are you?

Starting point is 00:43:46 I'm doing great. Good. What's up? Well, I appreciate all your advice for over 20 years. years since I read that first total money makeover. Well, thank you, sir. I've got one and a half questions. I can give you the logic behind them. I give you as much of my situation as you want.

Starting point is 00:44:03 And if you agree with me, I may have some questions of how to implement it. I'm going to start with the questions? Sure. I have at it. All right. All right. Should I set up a trust that would pay each of my three funds, 25% of their individual incomes per year until

Starting point is 00:44:22 So their individual retirement age, and they will receive a final cash disbursement. That's the first question. How old are your sons? They are 37, 41, and 49. Mm-hmm. Okay. All right. It's not, the thing I like about the plan, I've never heard this before, is the idea that if they don't work, they don't get anything.

Starting point is 00:44:52 Exactly. I want to encourage them to build their own lifestyle instead of me buying them a lifestyle. Yeah, instead of turning them into trust fund morons. I mean babies. That's the plan. Exactly. I like that. What's your estate worth right now?

Starting point is 00:45:07 Right now, it's about 2 million net worth. Okay. You've done a great job, David. I love that plan, and I've never heard that. I'll probably steal it. It's that good. I like it a lot. I want it to be out everywhere.

Starting point is 00:45:22 Yeah. And the thing I want to guard against with a few additional provisions in the trust is that if someone is completely off the ranch, I don't want them getting anything. I'll give you a bizarre example, okay? And you may have heard me say this on the air is just to wake people up. If one of them is doing heroin, I don't want to give them the money for an overdose. Correct. Okay. And so if one of them is doing X or Y that you don't approve of or that you think is harmful to themselves, we don't want to fund that in any way.

Starting point is 00:46:02 Okay. So if you're making $100,000 a year, no, I'm not going to give you $25,000 a year if you're doing heroin. So somehow or another, if there's got to be some kind of a character or I would want it. There is in my trust or ethics type of. of a thing, to protect them from themselves, not because I'm trying to control from the grave. Okay? Because people become more of what they are. So 25% of what they earn, and then they get a lump sum upon what retirement?

Starting point is 00:46:34 Yeah, full retirement, say, whatever. So 65 or whatever you want to call it? 68, yeah. Okay. All right. And the money is invested until then? Correct. Okay.

Starting point is 00:46:49 And you're going to splice this off as like, you've got $3 million, like a million, and a million to pull this off? No, I want to do it differently because I think you should, the money is unrecoverable if you didn't work. So it's one lump sum. The trust would have all the money and each of them poor individually from the same trust. Yeah, that way the ones that are making more are going to drain it down more. Yeah, exactly.

Starting point is 00:47:19 And then we're all going to get the same amount at retirement? No, no, no. The oldest one will get a third of it when he gets to $60. Okay, I see. A third of what's remaining at the time? Correct. Okay. All right.

Starting point is 00:47:34 It's not a bad formula, David. I kind of like it. As it stands, are they people of character working full-time, married, healthy? Right. Okay, so this isn't coming from anywhere. All independent now, but I just don't want to drop, you know, quarter million to one million dollars on them at one time. Well, do they all have homes right now?

Starting point is 00:47:55 No, none of them do. They all rent you. Okay. Because I'm just wondering, there's another sort of train of thought, which is help the kids when they need it most, which is in their 20s, 30s, 40s versus at 65 when they've already built their own wealth. So it's another thing to think about it. It's not a bad idea.

Starting point is 00:48:10 You could put a thing in there that you'll do a 50% or 100% match for down payments. Well, what I thought to answer to that question, that's the second. half question, and should I start giving them 10% of their incomes now while I'm alive, just for a birthday gift? Wouldn't hurt? And I would enhance that current lifestyle, you know, 10% while I'm alive. Yeah. But I'm not going to buy them into a house they can't afford, you know, no.

Starting point is 00:48:39 I'm not saying to do that, but there is, you know, I'm 37, so I'm the age of your youngest kid. And if I'm not a homeowner yet, and I want to be, and I'm working hard, but homes are expensive, man, I'd love a gift now versus 65 or 25% of my income, you know, staggered. So there's just something to think about there. You can play with the numbers both ways and see how it ends up. But yeah, you would need a – so the will tell you who gets what. The trust will then control the timing of all of that.

Starting point is 00:49:04 So you would need something like a revocable living trust in order to set up something that complex. That could be formed upon death. Yeah. A family trust is formed upon death. But I could choose to do something with their housing now while I'm alive. Exactly. You know, there's nothing to stop tax. Exactly. And I think I'd probably go pretty generous on that if you can figure out a way that you feel like you're not, quote, spoiling them, unquote.

Starting point is 00:49:28 But if I can get them all in a paid-for house pretty quick, if they're behaving and they're good, you know, reputable human beings, I'd want to try to do that more so than the other stream of income or as much as the other stream of income. So I might lean a little heavier over on that side while you're alive than the other. But it's a neat formula. It's got a good incentive plan in it. I like the way it's thought out. And, you know, it keeps somebody from, you know, sitting on the back of a yacht saying, peel me a grape, you know, because that's what you get into. And we don't want to create a reality show out of our children. And so that's...

Starting point is 00:50:12 The good news is, it's not like you have 25. million. We got two right now. So 250 grand probably won't destroy your child where they go, I can retire today on a beach. Yeah, you know, you get them in a paid for house. By some formula, some methodology, I don't care what it is, that it continues along the same idea of incentivizing, inspiring, lifting up rather than allowing them to, you know, be a financial lobotomy. That's what we want to avoid. So very cool. Neat idea, David. I just learned something. Now, Dave, I don't know how you set up in your family. I know you guys have an annual planning sort of conversation with the trust, but what are some of the sort of mainstay things everyone needs to think about regardless of the

Starting point is 00:50:54 size of their estate? Because I've heard you say it doesn't need to be equal. It's not like every kid has to get a third. No, no, and they're not in his formula. They're getting based on, you know, they're proving themselves, so to speak, and I love that. And not based on age or anything else. So I'm just on performance. So I think the biggest thing is, this. And David is, he's past this, but some of you were talking to, like you and Whitney have little kids. The biggest part of estate planning is raising good kids that money won't ruin. That's 90% of the problem is if you raise twerps and you get money, they're very wealthy twerps. I mean, it's all it is. And so, you know, it's all about parenting and raising kids that know

Starting point is 00:51:41 work ethic, that have generosity, that know how to save, they know how to function as an emotional and spiritual adults. So the question is, do they have the character to then carry the weight of, you're preparing them to carry the weight of wealth that's going to be left to them. Most people think making a will is some huge legal project they'll get around to someday. If you're working hard to get out of debt and build wealth to change your family tree, don't miss one of the most important steps that can help protect it all. Making a will. At Ramsey, we trust and recommend Mama Bear legal forms. Mama Bear has taken something people assume is complicated and made it simple.

Starting point is 00:52:54 Their wills are specific to your state, and they're built by attorneys to help you protect your family the right way. You're not downloading some generic form from the internet and hoping it will work. You'll have guidance every step of the way so you can be confident you're doing it right. Plus, the whole process only takes about 20 minutes. And August is National Make-A-Will month. Right now, you can go to MamaBearlegalforms.com and save 25% on your will with the promo code, Ramsey. It's their biggest discount of the year. But it ends August 31st. So don't wait. That's MamaBearlegalforms.com for 25% off. with the promo code, Ramsey.

Starting point is 00:54:00 George, one of the most confusing things on the planet. For folks dealing with helping with their parents, for folks like me that are in their 60s, is this ridiculous program. I can't stand it, but it's just there. It's called Medicare. Medicare, when you look it up in the Greek, means confusing. And people get more tripped up over this than anything else.

Starting point is 00:54:25 So let's just start out. main questions we're getting on this. Our guys ask us to go into it and just cover the basics on this. First question is, what is one-on-one? What is Medicare? So this is a federal health insurance program primarily for people 65 and older. So you hear people sign it up, hey, it's my 65th birthday. Time to sign up for Medicare. Very exciting right of passage. And some Medicare coverage comes directly through the federal government. That's parts A and B. We'll talk about that. And other coverage comes from private insurance companies that have to operate under federal guidelines. Side note. You often hear in the same sentence, Medicare, Medicaid.

Starting point is 00:55:00 Different. Medicare, Medicaid. They have nothing to do with each other. Medicaid is welfare. Medicare is available regardless of your income. When you turn 65, you can sign up for Medicare. Medicare is about age. Medicaid is about income and assets. That helps you delineate. Or lack of income and assets. Yes. So let's go through just the four main parts. Part A, think admissions. So this is hospital coverage.

Starting point is 00:55:29 So this is the part you've generally paid Medicare taxes toward while working. So all those payroll taxes going toward Medicare, it's covering this part. What we used to call hospitalization. Yes. And then you've got part B. So in my head, I think basics. So think medical coverage, doctors visits, outpatient care. And these two parts together, this is called original Medicare.

Starting point is 00:55:50 It's what it was originally set out to do. And then we decided it's a federal program. so let's complicate it. But of course, it doesn't cover everything. So now all these supplemental plans came to be. So you've got Part C, which is Medicare Advantage. So think C for combo. So it's a private all-in-one alternative.

Starting point is 00:56:05 It combines parts A and B, and you can also add a few other things like dental and vision and all that. And these plans do typically have more restrictions on which doctors and providers you can use. Yeah. So, but keep in mind, Part C is the one you pay for. Yes.

Starting point is 00:56:20 Parts A and B, you've already paid for with your taxes. You paid for all of it, but you're paying for it with your taxes. Okay, so A and B, the government furnishes, C, you purchase, and it's your add-ons to A&B. Yeah, it's the combo plus the add-ons. And you got part D, easy to remember this one, think drugs. Prescription drug coverage is part D. And outside of those parts, there's something called MediGap. Yes, you're going to pay for that as well with a premium.

Starting point is 00:56:47 And then MediGap, or Medicare supplement plans, think this is covering the gap. So private plans to help cover some of the deductibles, co-pays, other costs that original Medicare doesn't cover. All right. Question two, which Medicare plan should I get? It depends. Everyone's the least favorite answer. So there's hundreds of plans available, and it's good to get personalized help from a qualified Medicare advisor. But that would be you automatically get A and B.

Starting point is 00:57:15 And what type of C plan, what type of add-on plan, and what type of prescription drug or any other supplement? Medigat plan, those are the ones that get confusing and you're buying them. So you need to get someone to look at your situation, give you a customized response to your particular situation of which of those you need. If any, you're not required to buy anything. With anything this big, there's always going to be some grifter, scammers out there. So the federal government has actually taken legal action involving major companies over allegations that there was financial incentives that influenced how Medicare Advantage

Starting point is 00:57:49 plans were marketed or sold. And these plans can have more restrictions on which providers you can use. Doesn't mean they're a bad option. They can make sense for some people. But if you're getting pressured towards, hey, you've got to get this particular policy, it could be because that's what pays them the most. So you want to be aware of that. Probably is.

Starting point is 00:58:06 Yeah. If somebody's steering you a certain way and they haven't done a full analysis and shown you why this is the best for you, but instead just blindly do what I say, this is the science, you know, give you a Fauci answer, right? Then don't do that, right? Okay, number three, when do you sign up? So there's two major timeframes to know. The first is your initial enrollment period.

Starting point is 00:58:29 So this is a seven-month window, the three months before you turn 65, the month you turn 65, and the three months after. So it's sort of bookended there. So I'm born in May. So February through August would be my initial enrollment period, the year I turned 65. And this one's really important. If you miss the appropriate enrollment window, you can get some long-term penalties associated with that on certain parts of Medicare. And then the other one is annual enrollment period. So this one's ongoing October 15th through December 7th each year, and you can make certain changes to your Medicare coverage.

Starting point is 00:59:01 Yeah. So those are the two to note, the initial one and the annual one. Let me stop you a second. If you are in a situation like I am in where you don't need Medicare, I have a Ramsey plan. I'm over 65. I missed the enrollment window. They're not going to send me a bill for penalties. It'll only send me a bill for penalties if I later on choose to sign.

Starting point is 00:59:20 up. But I have my health care taken care of without the government with health insurance plan here at Ramsey and with wealth. And so I am not in Medicare. And a lot of people are in that situation, especially people that listen to this show. So don't be thinking you're going to get a penalty unless you join late later. And you do have annual enrollment period October 15th through December 7 where you can make changes and everything else. So the last piece here is a lot of people think, okay, great, I got Medicare, so my long-term care is covered. No. No. What's the difference here? Medicare primarily covers health care expenses like doctors, visits, hospital, stays, prescription drugs. Long-term care is very different. We talk a lot about in the show,

Starting point is 01:00:00 long-term care insurance, which is that's your nursing home, in-home care expenses, and Medicare generally does not cover those ongoing custodial long-term care costs. Medicaid will pay for a welfare poor person's nursing home. They will, will not pay for someone that is not poor for the nursing home. And so we have people doing stupid things like Medicaid fraud, welfare fraud, where they move a bunch of assets out of mom and dad's name to make mom and dad appear poor so they can put them in the welfare nursing home. Medicaid. Bad idea. That's criminal activity and you will run into serious problems doing that. Do not do that. And by the way, set yourself up so you don't need welfare. Hello. This is saving money for

Starting point is 01:00:47 retirement becoming a millionaire. That's what we're doing here. So long-term care insurance, if you've got assets under a million dollars and you're over 60, go-by-long-term care insurance, has nothing to do with this discussion. That's right. And remember, the purpose of insurance is to transfer risk that you can't take on from you over to the insurance company. That's why you pay that premium. And Medicare and long-term care coverage, they address different risks. So you've got a plan for both. And what's really cool, Dave, is we have a great partner called Chapter that helps people navigate this crazy messy water that is Medicare. And we have a whole guide that we created for Medicare that actually walks you through this and much more. It's a great asset to send

Starting point is 01:01:25 to people that you love that might be in this phase of life or you might be in it. So if you want to check that out, you want to learn how to choose a Medicare advisor you can trust. Because go to Ramsey Solutions.com slash Medicare Guide. We'll also drop a link to that in the description. So here's the thing. A and B, which is hospitalization, doctor, the basic coverage outpatient, that kind of stuff, is furnished by the government. C is add-ons that you can do to soup that up. That's where people get tangled up. D is prescription drug coverage.

Starting point is 01:01:55 That's also where people get and Metagap. These are the three things. So C, D, and Metagap are where people get tangled up. And that's where you need a pro that can help you untangle this and look and go. In your situation, you don't need that. You just need this. I would self-insure through that over there. I wouldn't buy that.

Starting point is 01:02:12 I would just buy a little bit here. and a pro can look at that. Or a pro can look at it and go, look at it and go, look, you're pretty vulnerable. You need to buy three things here. And they can help you customize it to your situation, and that'll keep you from getting screwed. This whole space is scummy. It's full of people that are inept and competent, at best, crooks at worst. And so you need to get with someone like our guys at Chapter that can sit down and walk you through this,

Starting point is 01:02:40 and you understand what you're doing and where the advice is coming from. Always, Ramsey people are always going to tell you you need the heart of a teacher. Whoever we're sending you to needs to be at the heart of a teacher to help you walk through this. It's complicated, but it's not so complicated you can't figure it out. It's really not rocket surgery. You can do it, but it's good to have somebody on your team to teach you and walk you through it. Ramsey Solutions.com slash Medicare Guide. Check out the folks at Chapter.

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Starting point is 01:04:34 monitoring it throughout the year. So far, Delete Me has saved me about 90 hours. I would have spent myself removing my information. And honestly, it feels so good knowing that. that someone is in the background helping me, and I don't even have to think about it. So this summer, give yourself a vacation with one less thing to manage. Get 20% off annual plans at joinselitme.com slash Ramsey. That's joinselitme.com slash Ramsey.

Starting point is 01:05:02 Hey, guys, if you like this show, we could use some help. Please hit the subscribe button. Please hit the like button, all those things, and share the show. Send a link or a share button whatever it is you got on your particular platform and let people know we're here. We would appreciate that. James is in Memphis.

Starting point is 01:05:35 Hey, James, what's up in your world? Hey, Dave. I'm just trying to work through my day here, decided to call in. Certainly. How can we help? Trying to figure out if I can retire from my business early and my wife and I are kind of nervous about it and needed some advice. Okay. Why do you want to retire early? Well, I'm a home builder, and mostly what I've done for the past 15 years is spec home building,

Starting point is 01:06:09 and I'm not wanting to continue that route. Okay. All right. That's different than retiring. I mean, you can start building custom homes. Well, I've done that also, and there's quite a lot of competition in our area, and just kind of lost some passion for the business. Okay. So what do you want to do with your life? Well, I'm on a vision quest to figure that out. I don't exactly know, but just something a little more fun and not as stressful. Okay. All right. Don't mind you doing that. The idea of sometimes when people say retire, they mean sit down at 53 years old and do nothing for the next 40 years, which is not good for you. No. And I'm not recommending that.

Starting point is 01:06:57 So currently you're retiring from something instead of to something. Yeah, and I would retire to something. So does your business have a value or will you just close it? I would just close it. Yeah, it's home-based. It's no value to it, really. Okay, but you made a good living, and it's been good to you. So we're going to find out what our next phase is.

Starting point is 01:07:17 So what's your net worth now? 3.2. Good for you. And how much of that is in retirement accounts? $400, roughly. So most of it is not in returnment accounts? Correct. Okay.

Starting point is 01:07:33 What's it invested in? I have to sell some stuff. We have a very nice home with some additional acreage, and I have a plot of land. What's the home worth? With the acreage, it's 1.5. Okay. All right. So you've got a million and a half otherwise, all right?

Starting point is 01:07:53 Million seven other. otherwise. And how much the extra acres, the other acreage you're getting ready to tell me about the plot of land is worth what? I have a plot of land that's worth just over a million, I think, and I have some heavy equipment that I own. Which you won't need, so we'll sell that. What's that worth? $400, roughly. Okay. Okay. So, I mean, if you took the plot of land and the heavy equipment and sold it, you'd have about $2 million to invest, that should create $150,000, $200,000 a year in income for you.

Starting point is 01:08:24 while you go on your next vision quest. If you want to keep the land and the house and only sell the equipment, you're going to be short of funds. So, I mean, just do some rough numbers if you want in your head. Just say, okay, whatever amount I'm going to put to work for me, if I put it to work at a good mutual fund, it's making 10 or 12, if I pull 10 off, which I wouldn't want you to pull that much off, but just easy numbers, 10s.

Starting point is 01:08:53 I got a million dollars, 10s, 100,000. I got $2 million, $10,000 is $200,000, right? A million five, I've got $150,000 to work with. That's the maximum you could pull, and I wouldn't want you to pull. I'd rather you'd be 8% or below on your drawdown. That way that lump sum will run in perpetuation. Does that make sense? Yes, sir.

Starting point is 01:09:14 And meanwhile, you're going to make a living doing the next fund thing and don't even need this money. Right. What would you make on average in the business? What are you bringing home? I mean, the good years will make $500,000. Last year we lost money. This year we'll make a little bit. It's just been a roller coaster.

Starting point is 01:09:34 Always is. I've been doing this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's a scary business. So you got stuff under construction now? I have one spec home, and I've done a few customer-pay jobs this past year that have been pretty good. Mm-hmm.

Starting point is 01:09:50 Okay. All right. Well, I mean, you really do need to figure out where your feet are going to land, and then what we're going to put in a pile to create income. And it sounds like the land, the plot of land, I think you called it, and the heavy equipment would be a big enough pile to live off of. But then also you need to figure out while all that's happening, how we're going to make a living, what we're going to eat with, and so on.

Starting point is 01:10:14 And I'm sure you've got some cash laying around. Yes. A five-year plan of generating zero income still trying to find yourself is not a a good five-year plan. Yeah. Do you know your yearly expenses, how much it takes to run your life? For our personal, it's about 90,000. You know, we can have a little bit of fun and that pays for our groceries and everything.

Starting point is 01:10:39 Great. You guys have no debt? No debt. Well, I have some debt, yeah, business debt. So we'll have to pay that off in the process? How much business? On that one spec or otherwise? The one spec, I owe about 400,000.

Starting point is 01:10:55 I have one bulldozer that I owe 250 own, and then I have one of the land, pieces of the land, I owe 200,000 own. Okay. Yeah, you've got to clear all of that while we're clearing this. But you're going to sell off the spec, and you're going to sell off the dozer and the piece of land. If it's in the plot that we were talking about selling,

Starting point is 01:11:14 it's just going to reduce the size of the golden egg, of the goose that's laying the golden eggs, right? Correct. And so, yeah, you just, so, okay, so you've got a... That'll shorten your runway there, but... Yeah, but, I mean... I don't think you're going to make zero dollars for it. You need to lay out a plan with your SmartVestor Pro,

Starting point is 01:11:32 is that I'm going to liquidate these things and put them in good income-producing mutual funds to live off of, and meanwhile, go find yourself and figure out what your next chapter is, and that's going to be fun. And let me give you a hint, okay? The interesting thing is this, James, all of our data shows that people, especially in a situation like you're in, it's even more accentuated. The highest income decade of your earning life is in your 50s. Okay. And the reason is it takes about that long to quit doing all the stupid stuff and to hone your craft and hone in on what you're good at and nail it.

Starting point is 01:12:16 And so my point being that if you choose this carefully, it might not just be fun. It might be more lucrative than anything you've ever done in your life. It would not be unusual for you to make triple the income you used to make by the time you're 58 in this scenario. So being more fun does not necessarily mean I don't make money. Yeah. It could mean that you just hit the sweet spot, you know, and you just nail it and the ball. and the ball goes over the fence. You know, you swing the bat, and it's that certain kind of sound when it makes contact,

Starting point is 01:12:51 and it goes right over the fence. And that's where you're sitting. You know, you've done stuff that what you call stress, other people would be completely debilitated by what you call fun. Other people would call stress. Because you've already learned how to run a business and juggle and handle subs and run, run down timelines and deliver properties and keep the stinking bank off of you. I mean, doing what you've been doing running, you've been pretty massively successful to get where you are doing specs and not go broke. So tip of the hat to you, sir.

Starting point is 01:13:25 I think you're in a really good position. And you got some homework here to sell off all this stuff, pay off the debts and kind of see where you land with that pile of money. Give yourself a little bit of runway, but let's aim at something. The number of times that we've talked to people in a wealth that in a situation where I'm dealing with wealthy people, that they went bankrupt early, had to find their way like I did, and then they sold out of something or did a major business model shift away from something they were working on, but use the same sets of everything to go a different direction. And in an AI world, that's not a bad thing to do.

Starting point is 01:14:06 And then they quadruple their income, and they're just printing money. It's like they've got a printing press in their basement. You know, I mean, it's just like they're bailing it. Especially with entrepreneurs. They have a hard time not entrepreneurial. They're just going to find their way to the next problem to solve. It's what they do. It's hard to stay put.

Starting point is 01:14:22 It could be something that's an invention that's been scratching at the back of his head, itching at the back of his head. Yeah, what's the biggest problem you've experienced in 15 years that you think you could solve? Yeah. That's a fun creative decision. One of the biggest mistakes homebuyers make is talking to a realtor and shopping for houses before understanding their real budget. And that's how you end up falling in love with a house you can't afford and trapping yourself in a bigger payment than you can handle.

Starting point is 01:15:23 That's why you should talk to Churchill mortgage first. Churchill shows you what you can actually afford, not just what a bank will approve. And with their certified homebuyer program, your financing is completely secured before you shop. So you won't miss out on your dream home while you're waiting for pre-approval. I've recommended Churchill for 30 years. because they help you buy a home the Ramsey way. So here's your plan. Contact Churchill.

Starting point is 01:15:52 Know your numbers. And then when you find the perfect house, you're ready. Go to Churchillmorgage.com slash Ramsey offer for a special offer only for Ramsey fans. That's Churchillmorgage.com slash Ramsey offer or click the link in the description. Stephen is in Buffalo, New York. Hey, Stephen. How are you? Hey, good.

Starting point is 01:16:33 How are you guys? Better than I deserve. What's up? Hey, so my question today is to just kind of find out more about where I was a 22 years old. My wife and I got married right out of college last May. Fast forward a year to this May, we welcomed our first baby home. Yay! And while she was pregnant, we were doing the stork mode thing, just piling cash.

Starting point is 01:17:02 So once all the hospital bills were paid, as August 1st, we became debt-free. Look at you. Well done, sir. Thank you. I have a disability and term life insurance through Zander and my wife's working on getting her life insurance now. So, kind of with all that, you don't really know much about wills or trust or anything and how that expands with more kids. So I'm just calling into any advice or direction on that if you wanted to share kind of what you guys do with your family. Such a great question. You're the most mature 22-year-old I've ever met. I wish I was you at your age. You're going to be so rich and your family's going to be so well taken care of. Well played, sir. Well played. I'm proud of you.

Starting point is 01:17:45 Good work. And a great question. Okay. So some basics on wills. Number one, a will is state specific. So it has to be written for the laws of your state. And you're in New York. And New York's one of the weird states.

Starting point is 01:18:01 So you really have to make sure. California, New York, Texas, Louisiana, four weird states on wills. Okay. Because Louisiana's French-based law or everybody else is English-based law. California is Granola. New York's close. And so that's what you're running. And Texas has not done even think it's a state.

Starting point is 01:18:18 It thinks it's a republic. So it's got all these weird laws. So all of that comes into the way they make laws and how they put them in place. It needs to be state-specific. And one way to get that is the advertiser we've had for years that helps you do a quick, easy will, which is exactly what you need from mama bearlegalforms.com. So just go to mama bearlegalforms. And they'll help you print it all out.

Starting point is 01:18:41 The second thing is I would recommend you look at what's just called a mirror image will. And that means your will and your wife's will look exactly alike if you both die. And before you both die, it all goes to her if it's you. It all goes to you if it's her. Pretty simple. Okay. So the wills, if you laid them down beside each other, it looks like they came off a word processor. and they were exactly the same except the names were changed to protect the innocent, right?

Starting point is 01:19:12 I mean, that's all it is. So that's the second thing. Just mirror image will. You leave it all to her. She leaves it all to you. The insurance, the primary beneficiary on her life insurance is you. The 401k primary beneficiary is you. Your 401k primary beneficiary is your life insurance primary beneficiary is her.

Starting point is 01:19:32 Your secondary beneficiaries on everything. This is the last thing I'm going to teach you. is to do a children's trust if both of you die. So how's this baby going to be taken care of if both of you die? All the life insurance proceeds dump into the children's trust and the 401K dumps into the children's trust and it's only formed if both of you die while the children are minors. Okay? Okay.

Starting point is 01:20:03 That's how mine was set up when my children were minors. but that's why the secondary beneficiary, meaning both of you are, the primary beneficiary is dead, so they go to the secondary beneficiary. Okay. So primary beneficiary is the opposite spouse, but the secondary beneficiary on everything for both of you is going to be the children's trust because you're leaving your money to your kids. Now, that's a very simple way to do it, and then you name who the trustee is. that's who's taking care of the money and you can state in the trust what you want to invest it in how it's paid out towards the kids while they're minors all of that and ours was set up to where

Starting point is 01:20:44 the and then the guardian of the child is a separate person typically than the trustee oh okay because they're not personal handling the money's different to person taking care of the kid you may have different people for that and it's wise yeah and so if the person taking care of the kid gets a monthly check from the investments in the children's trust in the event both of you die, then they got child support on steroids because they're getting a nice check to take care of these kids to raise them. And in addition to that, we had in there, our child, if they had a major medical, they could do an additional drawdown on the trust to not put a burden on the family that's raising them. First car purchase, they could do a small drawdown on the trust.

Starting point is 01:21:27 In college, they could do a drawdown on the trust. so there's no debt involved and not a burden on the family that's raising them. Then when they're after they graduate from college, they're 22, the trust dissolves, the money goes, their portion of the trust dissolves the money goes to them, or you can stagger that out and give them a little bit over the next few years until they're 30, however you want to do that. That's a fairly standard, fairly easy thing to think through. Mama Bear will walk you through every bit of that, and that's exactly what I did when I was your age, and that's what I would recommend. Yeah, I was just looking up mine on my Mama Bear, because I can just sign it. and look at the documents, which is awesome. So I was checking ours out. And there's a few major

Starting point is 01:22:02 decisions, Stephen, you need to make. That's the hardest part. It's not actually getting the well done. You can do that in 20 minutes. The hardest part is, who do we trust to take care of our children? That's the guardian. Who's going to take care of the financial side, financial power attorney? And then you've got the health care power of attorney. Who's going to make medical decisions if I can't? And so those are really the big things. And then, of course, there's the who gets what, which is pretty simple in your case. Yeah, that I would recommend what we said on who gets what. The health care stuff is, just to unplug or not to unplug.

Starting point is 01:22:32 That is the question. That's the health care power of attorney. And so typically the spouse is the primary on that. But if there was a car wreck, one of you's in a coma, the other one died, who's a secondary on the health care pair of attorney on whether to unplug this coma or not, right? All that kind of stuff. That's the kind of junk you're looking at. And it doesn't take long once you identify who those people are.

Starting point is 01:22:55 Oh, and by the way, you should let them know. You should talk to them. I'm going to ask you to raise my child if I die. And don't let that be a surprise, you know, but, and I'll ask you to be the trustee. Well, who's raising the child, so-and-so, and so-and-so's the trustee. Tell them who the trustee's going to be, who's going to be handling the money, and who's going to be handling the kid, let each one of them know in the event that something does happen. In the unlikely event, honestly, statistically, very low chance that both of you are gone before these children are adults.

Starting point is 01:23:26 Very low chance. Do you create the trust, like, through mama bear legal forms? The trust is created technically upon death, but it's instructed in the will. The will states to create this trust upon death of both people if the children are still minors. Okay, and are there any, like, backup guardians or trustees, I guess, if you were all in an accident? Well, the guardian, if, yeah, I guess if the whole family is on an airplane or something, but, yeah. I guess you could. I didn't.

Starting point is 01:24:01 I didn't go that far. Typically, there's standard terminology in this that a successor trustee or a successor guardian can be appointed. But, again, statistically, this is such a low probability. I really wouldn't. I'm not worried about that. If you've done all the other, I think you've been diligent. All right. Thanks so much.

Starting point is 01:24:21 Way to go, man. Man, you are on fire. And this is perfect. It's actually National Make-A-Wil Month. I know you've been celebrating all month long. Yeah, I got candles on a cake. Not. You're kidding.

Starting point is 01:24:31 It's make a will a month. What do we not have a month for? Well, I wanted to give him a will for free on behalf of Mama Bear. Do that. Hang on the line, Christian. Let him have, the guy needs something for free. He's killing it. He's just crushing it.

Starting point is 01:24:45 He's killing it. He deserves it. And for the rest of you, we actually have a cool thing running right now. Ramsey Solutions.com slash will's quiz. Helps you figure out if you need a will, if it works for you, if a simple online will works. and there's a 25% off promo code there. Yeah, it helps you figure out if Mama Bear will handle it or if it's super complicated whether you need an attorney.

Starting point is 01:25:05 Everyone needs a will that's an adult, period. 78% of Americans die without a will. You know what's odd about that statistic? 100% of us will die. 78% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck. Oh, interesting. You think it's the same crowd? You think?

Starting point is 01:25:24 People that don't pay attention, don't pay attention, don't pay attention. Who would have thought? You know? So if you're going to just be, you know, mediocre with your money and not, not be proactive, then it shows up in a lot of different areas. Man, well, when I'm gone, I want people to think, I didn't like the guy, but he handled his business. He had a will. He had term life. He had it all going on. He's a bit controlling, but he was good at it. He was a super nerd. That's how you say I love you to your family. Hey, guys, George Camel here. There are a lot of things you probably should ignore. Your check engine light, that weird smell in your fridge, the smoke detector that's been

Starting point is 01:26:21 beeping for six days, and maybe most importantly, your phone bill. The things we ignore have a funny way of costing us the most. And your phone carrier is counting on you ignoring that overpriced bill month after month so they can keep charging you more and more. But that's not the case with Boost Mobile. You don't need to keep overpaying when you can pay just 25 bucks a month for Boost Mobile's Unlimited plan. And the best part is you can bring your phone, keep your number, and pay just 25 bucks a month forever. That price will not go up. It is inflation proof. There's no contracts. There's no hidden fees. There's no catch. And since most smartphones have an e-sim these days, you can switch from the comfort of your home, just like I did. So it's okay to notice when you're paying more than you

Starting point is 01:27:01 should, but you shouldn't keep doing that. Stop overpaying for your phone service. Go to boostmobile.com and make the switch today. That's boostmobile.com slash Ramsey. $25 forever requires customers to remain active on Boost Mobile and Limited Plan. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. George Camel Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Mary is in Las Vegas. Not working. Hold on.

Starting point is 01:27:35 Let me try that again. All right. I'm going to try one more time, and then you guys are going to do something else. Uh-oh. All right. Let's see if we can get Mary. There she is. Mary, are you there?

Starting point is 01:27:44 Hi. Yes, I am. Hello. Good, good. I'm actually pushing the right button now. can I help? Okay, thanks for taking my call, Dave and George. Okay, so my question is, well, I'm contributing to my Roth, PSP, and ever since I listened to your show, I started becoming more intentional about that, but I do have about $26,000 in my traditional TSP of like those

Starting point is 01:28:10 contributions, and I'm wondering, is it worth converting that $26,000 to the Roth TSP and then paying the taxes now. And then additionally, I get a 5% match from the federal government, but that goes also into their traditional. So should I... It's required to... At the end of every year, or what should I do with this money in the traditional? Yeah. Where are you in the baby steps? I am, well, I don't have debt. I have an emergency fund and I'm investing 15% and I don't have a mortgage. I don't have kids. You don't have a house yet? You're renting? Correct. I rent. Cool. What do you make? What do you make? I gross 100,500, and I net 97.

Starting point is 01:28:54 Good for you. Way to go. You're doing so good. Congratulations. How old are you? I'm 36. Well done. Very well done.

Starting point is 01:29:01 Thank you. So, yes, I would convert the $26,000, and yes, I would convert the match at the end of each year and pay the taxes. And you're going to have to do that out of additional savings. And that has the effect of putting actually more money than 15% into your retirement. but not much. It's okay. So you're probably going to have $4,000 or $5,000 in taxes on the $26,000, and whatever the match is, you're going to have, you know, a little bit on that. That's not, but I'm the same way. I actually own Ramsey Solutions, so I match myself, and I'm required to match it in traditional,

Starting point is 01:29:38 and so I roll it to Roth at the end of each year and pay the taxes. Oh, wow. Okay. And so, yes, I would go ahead and do that. Now, as I've said to do that, now, I want you to recognize that that that $4,000 or $5,000 or whatever it is in taxes on the $26,000 is going to reduce your down payment savings, your down payment amount that you have saved towards a house, or it's going to slow down by $5,000 or $6,000 of that. I still would do it because it's a small amount and it gets your stuff all cleaned up and it gets it all in the Roth column.

Starting point is 01:30:13 Okay, cool. Okay. But I want you to recognize that's $5,000 that could have gone towards, the house down payment fund? Sure. That's the tradeoff. Yeah, I understand. And so if you had a mortgage, I would really tell you to put it towards the mortgage instead.

Starting point is 01:30:32 But because it's a small amount, I'd be tempted to do it anyway. So if you were like working four, five, six, seven at the same time here, instead, you're just doing four, don't have kids, don't have a mortgage. So that makes it a little easier to do it in your case. And the last thing is, what is your TSP invested in? So I have it in the CS&I funds. You have been listening to Ramsey. Yes, yes, a lot. Very good.

Starting point is 01:31:01 I'm very impressed. You passed the test with flying colors. Very cool. Thank you. Absolutely. So that's the Thrift Savings Plan, ladies and gentlemen, the federal employee has or the military has, and it's their version of a 401K. Some branches actually also have a 401k, and they have three or four different things you can put the money in. The F is a fixed, which sucks.

Starting point is 01:31:24 The rate of returns horrible. The G is government bonds horrible rate of return. The C is very close to an S&P 500 index fund. It's common stock is why it stands for. The S stands for small company, so that's like an aggressive growth stock mutual fund. The I stands for international. Those two have not kept up with the C, and so we have told people to put 80 or 90% into the C and split the difference left over between the S and the I, which is exactly what she does.

Starting point is 01:31:56 They also have a really lame-o plan that you can put the money in, and it automatically moves around depending on your age, your risk tolerance, and those kinds of things. Which means it's going to be way too conservative and give you terrible returns. Really sucks. But I'm looking at the 12-month return. turns here just for the CSNI fund and they blow away G and F of course. Yeah, so what are they? 16% over the last 12 months for the C fund, 14 to 15% for the S fund and 35% for that I fund. Oh. Because as we've seen, the volatility with the U.S. markets are doing well. International is boosted up with all the U.S. volatility. And the G is four, four percent.

Starting point is 01:32:32 And the F is six, right? So just like I told you, they suck. You don't want your investing at four when inflation rates four. that you know you're just treading water and if you got it in traditional you got to pay taxes on it so you've lost money after inflation when your long-term investments are making four or five or six you're not even treading water so you've got to be doing better than six on your long-term stuff to beat inflation and taxes but the general parameter is don't do any conversions until you're in baby step seven because that money is better off used to knock down the mortgage versus yeah she had 260,000 in traditional I'd tell her to just wait.

Starting point is 01:33:10 Yeah. And just save up and buy your house, get your house paid off. And when your house is paid off, like you said, at Baby Step 7, then I would work on converting that 260. But normally, if you're investing in the traditional side, we tell you, hey, just pause that. And for the new contributions going to the Roth side. And that's what she's doing. Mary has been listening, George. I'm so impressed.

Starting point is 01:33:30 She's doing the Ramsey plan. I mean, dialed in. She ever wants a non-government job? Apply here, Mary. We could use you. We're no government, but we get the job. Not have a TSP. By the way, if you've got a TSP, it's not horrible to do 100% C and forget it.

Starting point is 01:33:47 That's like investing in an S&P and forgetting it. For those of you that are bogal heads that like passive investing in the S&P index and all that crap, the equivalent would be just by C inside the TSP. And it's going to give you a great rate of return. You're missing out on the small cap and mid-cap. Yeah, which is like 16. And the other one, the C was what? C was 16.

Starting point is 01:34:06 S was the 14-15. So they're... Oh, the eye was 30. They're fairly close. Yeah, that iPhone. Just that's the last 12 months. So it's not a great picture. I know, it's spiked up.

Starting point is 01:34:14 Yeah. But they have, honestly, the C has outperformed everything else long term. If you look at like a 10, 20, 30 year return, you would see that. Yeah. And so you're in good shape. She's done everything so smart. By the book. A lot of smart people on today's show.

Starting point is 01:34:29 I'm very inspired. Yeah. Hold on to. The kids are going to be all right, Dave. So, George, recap. match beats Roth beats traditional. Yes, that's the investing strategy

Starting point is 01:34:41 that we recommend because the match from your employer is going to give you an instant return on your money. So we have a match here at Ramsey. I put 100 bucks in. Dave's give me another 100 bucks. That's incredible. So we start there.

Starting point is 01:34:52 I got to chill. Thanks, Dave. Appreciate that. Then we go to Roth, which means you're using after tax dollars. You're not going to get the deduction, but that money now is going to grow tax-free and the government's not going to get their grubby hands on it ever again.

Starting point is 01:35:05 That's incredible. And then we move to traditional if we've run out of Roth options and that 15% threshold, the only way, if your company offers a 401k Roth and you have personal Roths and you do backdoor Roths if you've got higher income, the only way you would run out of Roth and have to go to some kind of traditional is if your company didn't offer Roth. Yep. That'd be the only thing. And there's even, like we have a mega backdoor 401K.

Starting point is 01:35:30 Yeah. And you can do all of that Roth. You can do it all Roth. Pretty incredible. If the company offers Roth. So you got all kinds of ways you can do this stuff. Hey guys, Rachel Cruz here, and I love summer. There is more fun on the calendar, more time with your people, and way more chances to make

Starting point is 01:36:19 memories. But you know what else there's more of? Spending. Oh, between the extra groceries and gas and camp fees and family trips, it all starts to add up so fast. And before you know it, money stress starts to steal the fun out of everything. And that is why I love the every dollar budget. app because it helps you plan your money, track your spending, and find more margin in your

Starting point is 01:36:42 budget so that you can put extra cash towards the goals that matter most. Enjoy your summer without the money stress. Download the every dollar app in the app store or Google Play and start for free today. Well, if you feel like a rat in the wheel and you're sick and tired of run, run, run, run, run, run, get nowhere. The only way you get out of something like that is you have to plan your way out. You get above the problem and lay out a game plan. In the money world, that's called a budget. A budget is you telling your money what to do instead of wondering where it went. When you're spinning your wheels, it's not because you're doing it on purpose. It's because you're not doing it on purpose. Pretty simple. And if you want to follow the Ramsey plan, the details, the baby steps,

Starting point is 01:37:43 the right things, like Mary calling a little while ago, and she had everything nailed down exactly. we can show you exactly what to do when and where by following the every dollar budget app. It will lead you not only through building a budget, that's the basics, but also to help you find thousands of dollars in hidden margin and then what to do with it to find the fastest, to find the fastest path from where you are to out of debt, to out of what to end to wealth. So every dollar is free. You can start it for free in the app store or Google Play. Don't be normal. Normal sucks. Sam is in New York.

Starting point is 01:38:17 Hi, Sam. How are you? Hello, I'm doing well. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So I was wondering. So I guess I'll start with.

Starting point is 01:38:28 I'm 26. I have two roommates right now, and I've been living with roommates for the past three years now. I'm hoping to get my next place by myself without any roommates, but the cost of that is significantly more than to continue living with people. Sure. And so I guess my question is, how do I know how much I should be saving? Because I've been watching so many of your videos about, and especially George is out on the street. And if you start investing now, how much you'll have when you retire? So I guess how much can I, how much should I feel comfortable to spend now versus throwing even more into saving and investing in retirement?

Starting point is 01:39:14 Good for you. Good question. Well, keep in mind that George, when he's on the street, generally, is making fun of people. I do the Jim Halpert look to the camera. Like, you guys seeing this? I actually just did one on the cost of living in New York while we were over there. I said, what's your rent payment for New York residents? And so that was really interesting to find out how much people are paying. How much are you paying in rent currently between, you know, you're one of three roommates?

Starting point is 01:39:38 I am. So right now I'm paying $1,300 a month. Woo! So $3,900 is the rent? Is it split evenly? It's 3,800. I took a slightly larger room for an extra hundred. She has an extra four square feet, so she pays a little bit more. So you want to have your own place.

Starting point is 01:39:55 That's the goal. What would that cost a reasonable place? Not a swanky penthouse, but what's the place you're looking at? I think, like, reasonably the least I could get something for is around 2,600, 2,700. Okay. Something like that. It's about double. What's your after-tax monthly income?

Starting point is 01:40:13 I take a lot out right off the top between ESPP and do ROP 401K. So without the investing, if you just said, hey, here's the state and federal taxes, here's what I'm really making. Sure. I would say probably I'm taking home about $120,000 a year. Okay, so let's call it $10,000 a month. So that's about 27%. Yeah. So a rule of thumb we use is when you're buying a home, don't let your payment be more than a fourth of your take-home pay, not counting for a 1-K and ESPP.

Starting point is 01:40:51 So that's about where you would be with this rental number, and that shouldn't choke you to death. But keep in mind, when you're renting, 100% of the time, it's patience while you wait to buy. And so we're buying patients. We're not buying a house. buying somebody else's house for them, but we're not buying a house. And so you're buying time, you're buying patience. You don't want that to be your long-term goal. With that in mind, I'm trying to save towards a purchase someday.

Starting point is 01:41:23 How old are you? I am 26. You don't want to be 36 and still sitting there paying rent. I definitely don't want to. And my partner, I've been with him for almost six years now, so I'm hoping that I get to be a part of a dual income rather soon, and so we can combine. But I don't really want to work on how aggressive he is. Six years?

Starting point is 01:41:52 Yeah. Yeah, painter, get off the ladder, dude. What are you guys waiting for? I could not tell you. I'm not waiting on anything. Oh, boy. Okay. That's a discussion for another day.

Starting point is 01:42:05 But to Dave's point, what you're dealing with here is opportunity costs. What you're giving up by getting your own place is about $16,800 a year. That you could have been saving towards. Your down payment. Yeah. Yeah. So if you're okay with that and slowing that goal down because you want your own place, that's fine.

Starting point is 01:42:23 As far as the parameter goes, you're pretty much right there. If your life goal, the way you see your life unfolding to getting a home is to having a dual income, and that's not an unreasonable goal, we should put a timeline on that. Yeah. In other words, he needs to put a ring on it. I would love that. Yeah. And that's old grandpa talking, okay?

Starting point is 01:42:50 But, yeah, you know, if you find one like Sam, don't let her get away. Hello. And so because it sounds like this, okay, if I think this is five years and for quality of life, I'm willing to give up $16,000 or $18,000 a year to live by myself. and that's all you're buying because you're not buying a house and you're taking that out of your down payment fund. But if we're doing that for two years and then we're going to be married, that's one thing. Or we're going to put $40,000 or $25,000 away, $30,000 away, and stay with roommates

Starting point is 01:43:34 so that when we do get married, we've got more money to put down. and buy a house faster. So if I knew, if I was in your shoes, okay, I'm not telling you what to do exactly, but if I were in your shoes and I knew I was going to be married within 18 months to two years, which is very reasonable if you've been together six years. But if I knew that was going to happen, then I would stay with the roommates because I'd be planning towards my married self rather than my today's self. But if I don't know, if I don't know, and I may have to kick Bubba off the ladder because

Starting point is 01:44:07 he's not going to come to the table. We don't know what's going to happen there. If I don't know, and I want to have this quality of life, I might go over and do the thing for $2,700 and kick the can down the road a little bit on buying. I guess the other question similar to that is I've got it between, I wouldn't touch anything in retirement, but like just in brokerage and other things,

Starting point is 01:44:28 I've got, I think my net worth right now is around $370,000. Way to go. Save things because I can't count on them. Yeah. But at least right now, but would it be worth it to even consider just buying a place for 200 and depleting some of what I have invested? You're saying you could buy an apartment or condo for 200? No, that would be 200 down. Maybe not in New York, maybe somewhere outside.

Starting point is 01:44:57 Not going to be in New York for 200. Yeah. Not in Manhattan. But again, if you can do that with the parameters and go, all right, it's going to be about a quarter of my after-tax monthly income after-the-the-term. the down payment, you could consider it, but I would still wait to see what the future holds. And I'm only, no, I'm not going to wait. I'm going to present this in a conversation. Hey, if you're not going to come to table, I'm going to go buy a house. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:45:20 Because I'm going to go, I'm going to make a plan for my life to be whole without you because it appears you're not going to be around. You're either here or you're not, and this sort of thing ain't working. I mean, you, you're not going to be as blunt or crazy as I am because I'm already married. But you see what I'm saying? It's like if you're going to come to the table, we'll wait and buy a house together. But if you're not, I think I'm going to go buy a house because I'm going to start planning my life and make it whole as if you're not here because I don't know if you're going to be here or not. And you can phrase that however you want to phrase it. But that's really, I would tell him what's up instead of going, hey, I'm going to go buy a house for us.

Starting point is 01:45:59 No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, I don't even be like, well, I'm going to move in. That sounds fun. Me. Yeah. No, me. Buying a house for me. That's what we're doing. You have done so well, Sam. And let me tell you, the better you have your financial foundation laid like this, the more confident you are making relationship decisions that are good long-term decisions. You don't feel trapped. That's a really good smart place to be, young lady. I'm proud of you. Hey, guys, George Camel here. Do you ever feel like insurance companies only care about your money and not? not what you actually need? Well, there's a better way. When you go to Ramsey's Insurance Resource Hub,

Starting point is 01:47:09 you'll start feeling confident that you're getting the right coverage that's truly best for you. You'll find helpful info on everything from life insurance, health insurance, identity theft protection, and more. And when you're ready to get the coverage you need, you can connect with a Ramsey trusted insurance pro who will only get you what you need at the best price. Go to Ramsey Solutions.com slash insurance.

Starting point is 01:47:28 Ramsey Solutions.com slash insurance. Never been a better time than right now to find a job doing what you love. at Ramsey, we're on a mission to provide hope to everyone in every walk of life. And we need more talented team members to join the mission. We are growing, especially for roles in paid media marketing, email marketing, analytics engineers. And you can come do work that actually matters at Ramsey. Check out Ramsey Solutions.com slash careers and click the link in the show notes.

Starting point is 01:48:13 Benjamin and Laura are with us on the debt-free stage in the last. lobby of Ramsey Solutions. Hey, guys, how are you? Hey, great. Welcome. Where do y'all live? Baltimore, Maryland. Fine, fine. Well, welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you two paid off? $282,000. Way to go. And how long did that take? About seven years. All right. And your range of income during that time? 151 to 210. Good. What do you guys do for a living? So I'm an application systems analyst technical lead for an investment advisory firm. Okay. and I work for a ministry that helps people living through addiction. Oh, good for you.

Starting point is 01:48:54 Wow, good jobs. Well done. Very cool. All right. And your shirt says mortgage-free, so I'm guessing you paid off house and everything. House and everything. Way to go! Looking at weird people.

Starting point is 01:49:06 And you guys aren't that old. How old are you all? I'm 39. And I'm 47. Excellent. And what's this house worth? 480. 480.

Starting point is 01:49:15 Way to go. And how much in your nest egg again? in your retirement and so forth. So in IRA and 401Ks, we have 430. In addition to that, we have another 230 in the emergency fund, sinking funds, HSA 529, company stock, and now that the house is paid off, ETFs in a brokerage account. Wow.

Starting point is 01:49:35 So you're running what? Million and a half? Net worth? 1.1. 1.1. Okay, all right. Well, very good. Way to go.

Starting point is 01:49:42 Baby steps millionaires. Yep. Look at you. And seven years. That's amazing. Well done. I'm so proud of y'all. Congratulations.

Starting point is 01:49:51 How's it feel to not even have a freaking house payment? Awesome. Free. Free. Yeah, that's exactly how it feels. Was the whole thing the mortgage? No. What else was in there?

Starting point is 01:50:02 I came into our marriage with $12,000 in IRS debt. I had $1,000 in debt to Maryland and a $1,000 dental bill that was around so long. It was like a pet. And then you met Laura, who analyzes everything very carefully, I can already tell. And she said, we're not doing this. Am I right? Yeah. Absolutely. So you guys have been married seven years?

Starting point is 01:50:28 Yep. Yes. This is tracking now. So you get back from the honeymoon and she says, all right, down to business. No, before there was a honeymoon, she already said it down to business. So the prerequisites. We paid off the IRS and the dental and the Maryland state the day we got back from the honeymoon. Yes.

Starting point is 01:50:45 And that set us back to Baby Step 3 for a couple weeks. And then we had to very quickly adjust because Jacob. Because our older son, my son, Jacob, he was in, he went to college right after we got married. And we were cash flowing a lot of his college. So you did that in addition to all this? Wow. Well, way to go, guys. Well, very cool, though.

Starting point is 01:51:13 Very good. I mean, all the goals are hit, and you knocked it out, and then you start on the mortgage. Yep. That's it. And seven years later, you're millionaires. Yep. Wow. So when you're in your 30s and you had IRS debt or in your 20, your mid-30s, and you had your IRS debt and all that, you ever think you'd be a millionaire by now? I never thought of it. No. I didn't think that it was possible at that point in time. and one of the big things that held me back was debt. And we learned a lot through Financial Peace University.

Starting point is 01:51:50 I just got real gazelle intense about it. Yeah. So originally I took FPU in the fall of 2013. Somebody at my church paid for 11 scholarships. Wow. And I have no idea who paid for it. And it completely changed my life because Liam at that point was only six years old. and I was a single mom making 55,000, and I paid off 75,000 in three years.

Starting point is 01:52:12 And then three months later, I met Benjamin, and I told him that I was three months into an 18-month plan where I was going to save up $60,000 and buy a house an hour away. And, yeah, that didn't scare him. No, it impressed him. I said you can't stop a train once it's on the tracks. That's it. I heard the locomotive going. Yeah, here we go.

Starting point is 01:52:34 Yep. And so five months after we met, he asked me out. and I had a 48 item RFP, and he met almost all of the requirements in my RFP, except number 12 was he needed to be a date. Wait a minute, wait a minute. I know what it is, but tell the public what you gave your date. A request for partner. Oh, oh, okay, all right.

Starting point is 01:52:54 And there was 40 items he had to check. Yes. And he checked every single one except for one? Except for two. So one, when he asked me out, he said, I know we have to make compromises because you prefer the mountains, and I prefer the beach. And I said, where are we going to live? Are we going to live at the Strait of Gibraltar? I don't want to live in the Strait of Reralta. What about Ireland? Ireland,

Starting point is 01:53:15 it rains too much in Ireland. I don't want to live in Ireland. And he said, I was thinking that we would live in the mountains and we would have a mural of the beach. And so the second item that he didn't check off yet was Dave Ramsey follower on same pay's financial financially. So I agreed to go out with him under the condition that he complete FPU before he proposed. Wow. That is wild. All for one date. And this didn't scare you at all.

Starting point is 01:53:44 Those of us in the business world is a request for proposal. In this case, it's request for partnership. Yes. Oh, my gosh. Wow. That's impressive. I'm just surprised he checked off 46 of the first day. I mean, you picked well.

Starting point is 01:53:59 I mean, the chances of that happening alone are pretty low. That's this is amazing. Wow. Very cool. The cool thing, though, Benjamin, too, like you said, you got gazelle intense, and it wasn't just because of that, because of her demands. I'm guessing it, what you do for a living, you observe people who change behaviors permanently, and they usually do so fairly radically.

Starting point is 01:54:21 It has to be radical for it to even be effective. Yes. Yes. It's all or nothing. And so you applied that, I'm guessing, whether you consciously or unconsciously applied that. to this subject. Absolutely.

Starting point is 01:54:34 Yeah. Absolutely. It was learning how the debt percentages work against you when you owe money and work for you when you invest the money. It made a night and day difference in how to see that. Yeah. And so then it wasn't like, oh, I'm having to do this to get this girl. It's more like this works and I'm freaking doing it all in.

Starting point is 01:55:02 She's just incredible whether it's... Either way. Either way. Yeah, I got you. Well done, y'all. That's very cool. Very cool. What was the church you went to Financial Peace in?

Starting point is 01:55:11 Lighthouse and Glen Burnie. Okay. Very nice. Very nice. Well, thank you guys so much. We're so proud of you. What do you tell people? You've both been through Financial Peace.

Starting point is 01:55:20 You've been married seven years and you went from in debt and to paying off mortgage and everything and now a net worth of over a million dollars in seven years. What do you tell people the secret is? So I told them three things. One is the budget is foundational. If you don't get the budget, nothing else is going to work. Two, marriage is a partnership, not a roommate agreement. Make sure you're on the same page financially.

Starting point is 01:55:42 And three, we started coordinating FPU in the fall of 2021, and I would tell my class to set three types of goals. You set realistic goals, ridiculous goals, and mathematically impossible goals. And you tell people what you're mathematically impossible goals. So I was telling my class, that my mathematically impossible goal was I was going to pay off my house before I turned 40. And I have achieved every one of my mathematically impossible goals.

Starting point is 01:56:10 When it was just me, I would barely make it. We actually did it eight months early. Wow. That's amazing. Well, yeah, we call them God wow goals. If God shows up, we can do this, but otherwise we can't do it by ourselves. The math says we can't, mathematically impossible goals. And then that's great.

Starting point is 01:56:29 And your classes, man, can you imagine being in her class? I feel like everyone should go through her class. We need to put this at scale. Yeah, this is great. Yeah, coordinators, when they're like this, the people that go through their class, their lives are all changed. They don't have a choice. They're having a choice.

Starting point is 01:56:45 You can't be in the class. You've got to do an RFP, you know. Let's get to it. So you guys are amazing. All right, and you brought Liam with you. Does he want to come up for the debt-free scream? Yep. All right.

Starting point is 01:56:54 How old is William? He's 19. He's been following this journey since he was six. I love it. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help any time with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use.

Starting point is 01:58:06 Go to Ramsey Solutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's Ramsey Solutions.com. Our scripture of the day, 1. Peter 1.6, so be truly glad. There is wonderful joy ahead, even though you have to endure many trials for a little while. Winston Churchill said the pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty. Braden is with us. Braden's in Atlanta.

Starting point is 01:58:41 Hi, Braden. How are you? Good. How are you? Thank you for calling. Thank you for taking the call. Sure. What's up?

Starting point is 01:58:48 I have a question. Me and my fiancé are looking to get married and move out. And our options right now are either move out into an apartment or my parents gave me the option of paying to finish the basement and then living down there for a couple of years while we saved up to put a down payment on a house. I just want to know what the smart move would be there. I currently have an income.

Starting point is 01:59:17 She does not. And we are both in college still. When will you both graduate? Next year. Like May of 27? Should be, yes, sir. Okay. And what will her degree be in? She will work in physical therapy.

Starting point is 01:59:35 Okay. Is she finishing her master's in PT or her undergrad? It will be more like a associate's degree to work in physical therapy assistant. Oh, okay. So she's not going to be a PT? Okay. All right. PTA, sorry. That's okay. And what will your degree be in? I will be graduating with an accounting degree. Okay. All right. And sitting forward and passing the CPA, I assume. Your master's in accounting?

Starting point is 02:00:05 No, I will be going a different route. I will be going into like corporate finance route. Okay. All right, cool. No problem. Good, good, good. All right. And when are you getting married? September of 27. After graduation. Yes, sir. It's about a year from now. Okay. Yes, sir. We want to graduate and move in together at the same time. Good, good. So it doesn't matter until then?

Starting point is 02:00:36 Yes, sir. Okay. All right. Do you have student loan debt or other debts? I do not. She does. It's about 10,000. Okay. All right. So you probably can save up enough to pay off the student loan debt when you come home from the honeymoon in September of 27, correct? I plan on having that paid off by the end of this year. Don't pay off her debt until you're married to her. Okay, that's not a smart idea.

Starting point is 02:01:06 No, it's not a smart idea. Okay. You don't pay people's debt that you're not married to. But I would have the money saved up to do that, and on return from the honeymoon, write a check and pay it off. Yes, I would do that. I'd be ready to do it. Okay, yes, sir.

Starting point is 02:01:19 And she's not taking out any more student loan debt, right? No, sir. Okay. It will stay at about $10,000. Okay. Okay. Okay. The way we answer questions on the show and the way I've talked to George and all the others to do the same thing is, what would I do if I were in your shoes? Okay.

Starting point is 02:01:41 Okay. Your parents' offer is a kind offer, but there is a huge advantage to a young couple to be separated and have their own. own entity, their own physical entity in terms of the first year of marriage, relationally plugging in with each other, not having the in-laws above your head. So the relational advantage of that is very, very real. And it actually, the weird thing is it'll actually parlay over into your finances. In other words, the more adult the two of you are because you're a separate entity and not plugged still into mommy and daddy in any way, the better your first few raises are going to be,

Starting point is 02:02:30 your first few job decisions are going to be, and all that kind of thing, it all kind of goes with the same territory. And there's, you know, we've seen those data points for years doing what we do. So for the sake of your marriage and even indirectly, the byproduct of your finances, I would just rent the cheapest one-bedroom I could. I guess to add to that is if we lived with them or, you know, other costs like utilities and groceries, I most likely wouldn't have to pay car insurance. So there would be quite a few other costs that would not be there if we did live with them. I think it's a net positive still.

Starting point is 02:03:15 But you guys will be grown adults, probably making 150K household income starting out with no debt. So you're going to be able to afford rent and save up for a debt. down payment with no issue. So when my daughters were four to seven years old, they had in the playroom two pretend dresses that they wore all the time. One of them was a wedding dress and one them was a princess dress. When your fiancee was wearing her pretend wedding dress at seven years old, she was not visualizing living in your mother's basement. That makes sense. And walking upstairs to breakfast to see your mother-in-law. As much as you might love each other, you'll love each other more if you live in different spaces.

Starting point is 02:04:02 It's, again, it's a kind offer, but the unintended consequences offset the advantages as far as I'm concerned. And I wouldn't do it. And so I have to tell you what I would do. George, you're... I'm in the same boat. I mean, I moved out when I was 20. Yeah. And so I wasn't like a living at home kind of guy.

Starting point is 02:04:22 And there's times where we'd say, okay, it makes sense to live at home for this season until this thing. But I don't like the idea of just, well, it's cheaper and we can save money to save up the down payment. You guys are going to be in great shape starting off. And for household income. For those of you out there that are in these situations, this would not be hard relationally at all for Braden because he just steps right back into the family script that he's been in his whole life. It's going to be 10-X harder for the one that it's not their parents. not because the parents are mean or not because they're not loving or anything like that. It's just awkward as crud.

Starting point is 02:04:59 You know, it's just weird. And so, I mean, even like when we first got married and we went back to Sharon's parents for Christmas and we stayed in her old bedroom, that's just weird. It's just strange. You know, that's just, this is the bed you were in in high school. It's like, ugh, you know. And I can do that for about three nights. And after that, I'm going home, you know. And I resort to like my childhood self.

Starting point is 02:05:25 When mom starts folding my laundry, she's bringing me meals. And I go, it's hard to feel like a little. And when your mom brings a meal, it's a good thing. You can't pass that down. I'm talking to the Baclavis, unbelievable. May Camel's cooking. You better be ready. You better be saddling up.

Starting point is 02:05:38 Jordan is in Albany. Hey, Jordan, what's up? Hi, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Good. Thank you so much for taking my call.

Starting point is 02:05:48 So I bought a car about a month. month ago, and I am wondering if I should sell it because I'm having a bunch of regret about it. It's a newer car, and I just feel like I'm taking on. You think it's going to be more of a curse than a blessing? Yes. Because of the, how much did you pay for it? 25,000. And what are your payments?

Starting point is 02:06:13 About 365 a month. Okay. What's owed on the loan? 25,000. Oh, no, you paid 25. What's the loan amount? No, so I put down 2,500, and then it was 25,000 in total. Does that make sense? Yeah, so 22,500 is what's owed today?

Starting point is 02:06:33 Yes. Okay. And what is your household income? So I'm single. I live with my parents, so I bring in about 2,600 a month. I just picked up some tutoring, and I've been doing that this summer, so that's up to my income about 1,000, so 3,600, and I'm planning on doing that throughout this school year as well. Good for you. It is too expensive a car for your situation. We tell folks not to buy a car that's more than half their annual income, and you did. Yeah. And I would sell it. Yeah. It's going to, you know, I would buy something about $12,000 in your situation. Okay. Okay, yeah.

Starting point is 02:07:17 I also, I have a bunch of student loan debt, and I thank you for all your advice and stuff. I've been putting a lot of money towards those as well. Way to go. But it's a hefty amount. Yeah, and now you've just added another chunk to it. You know, you have this another, put another $22,000 on top of that before you get out of debt. So now I even take back my $12,000. I would go cheaper than that.

Starting point is 02:07:40 I'd buy something super cheap, get to work, clean up a student loan debt, and then and only then move up in car. One day you'll have a $22,000 car. But not today. I wouldn't. I'm with you, Jordan. I think your brain is telling you the right thing. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it.

Starting point is 02:07:56 In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace. Christ Jesus.

The Ramsey Show - Don't Leave Your Financial Future To Chance

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