The Ramsey Show - Don’t Let Others Control Your Future

Episode Date: October 8, 2026

📈 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Are you on track with the Baby Steps? Get a Free Personalized Plan.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ❓ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Have a money question? Ask Ramsey is here to help.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ George Kamel and Rachel Cruze answer your questions and discuss: “My uncle embezzled money from our family business and left us in debt.” “We have $87,000 in gambling debt—how do we tackle it?” “My husband wants me to sign a postnup as a condition to working on our marriage.” “Should I retire from my job to start getting my pension, then get another job?” “Should I cash out my whole life insurance policy to pay off debt?” Next Steps: 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 weekdays from 2–5 p.m. ET 📩 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Email Dave On-Air With Your Questions on Debt and Finance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 💻 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠New to the show and want to learn more? Check out our 7 Baby Steps!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 💰 ⁠⁠⁠How much do you need to invest each month to retire a millionaire?⁠⁠ 💵 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 🧮 Need help with your taxes? See who we trust. 🚢 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Cruise With Dave Ramsey and 2,500 Ramsey People⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ❤️‍🩹 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Get trusted insurance coverage that fits your budget⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Connect With Our Sponsors: Go to⁠⁠⁠ Angel⁠⁠⁠ to discover entertainment you can feel good about. Get 10% off your first month of⁠⁠⁠ BetterHel⁠⁠⁠p Go to ⁠⁠⁠Boost Mobile⁠⁠⁠ to switch today! Don’t try to figure out Medicare alone. Go to ⁠⁠⁠Chapter⁠⁠⁠ to connect with an advisor! Save 10% (up to $250) at ⁠⁠⁠Christian Brothers Automotive⁠⁠⁠ with your exclusive Ramsey discount. Receive 50% credit towards your first month with ⁠⁠⁠Christian Healthcare Ministries⁠⁠⁠. Use code RAMSEY. Get started today with ⁠⁠⁠Churchill Mortgage⁠⁠⁠. Equal Housing Lender • NMLS ID 1591 • ⁠⁠⁠NMLSConsumerAccess.org⁠⁠⁠. Churchill Certified Homebuyer program is available for qualifying borrowers and select loan types only. Ramsey Audience offer of up to a $500 credit applied at closing toward fees incurred for appraisals for a limited time and may be discontinued without notice.  Get 20% off when you join ⁠⁠⁠DeleteMe⁠⁠⁠ Go to⁠⁠⁠ FAIRWINDS Credit Union⁠⁠⁠ for an exclusive account bundle! Debt collectors hassling you? Take back control of your life at ⁠⁠⁠Guardian Litigation Group⁠⁠⁠ Save up to 50% on health insurance. Talk to a ⁠⁠⁠Health Trust Financial⁠⁠⁠ advisor today. Visit ⁠⁠⁠Helix Sleep⁠⁠⁠ for special offers! Use code RAMSEY to save 20% at ⁠⁠⁠Mama Bear Legal Forms⁠⁠⁠ Visit⁠⁠⁠ NetSuite⁠⁠⁠ today to learn more. Sign up for your free trial at ⁠⁠⁠Shopify⁠⁠⁠. Make navigating healthcare easier. Go to ⁠⁠⁠Solace Health⁠⁠⁠ to see if you qualify. Visit⁠⁠⁠ Zander Insurance⁠⁠⁠ or call 1-800-356-4282 for your free instant quote today!  Try ⁠⁠⁠ZipRecruiter⁠⁠⁠ for free today. Explore more from Ramsey Network: 💸 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Ramsey Show Highlights⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 🧠 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Dr. John Delony Show⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 🍸 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Smart Money Happy Hour⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 💰 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠George Kamel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 📈 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠EntreLeadership⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Brought to you by the Every Dollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by the Rachel Cruz, and we're taking your calls at AAA-825-25-2-25. Jump-in. We'll talk about your life and your money. Kurt is going to kick us off in Minneapolis. What's going on, Kurt? Yeah, I've got a question for you, people regarding purchasing of new vehicles. As you know, manufacturers sometimes offer up a 0% financing for 48 months, sometimes longer, whatever.

And in our particular case, we're looking at purchasing a new vehicle in the future here and are wondering if it's wise to take that 0% financing or to withdraw the cash and pay full for that vehicle. in cash. And for context, we have no debt. Our vehicles are paid for and we hang on to them for a number of years. And so I just wanted to hear what your thoughts are on something like that. Yeah, it's a good question, Kurt. Well, the short answer is, no, we would recommend still paying cash for your cars. And it's for a couple of reasons. Yeah, the zero percent financing can feel like a great deal, right? because part of us avoiding debt is paying that interest on top of something that's going down in value, right? And in this specific situation, you know, it seems like you can skirt around the math.

But the problem is if anything happens between when you get the loan and you pay it off at any level, what all the fine print is and all the fees and all the back interest that could build up is there. So there's a risk associated with it there. But then there's also the side of debt that we just see this per gritty. progression moving forward with your money when you own something outright and you don't owe, even if there's not interest, it's still this emotional tie to something that you have that's not fully yours. And so you're still making payments. You're still kind of living in that rearview mirror mindset financially versus just being done with it. And we just talked to a lot of

people who have built wealth, who are babysubs millionaires and beyond, right? And they they don't ask these kind of questions usually. Like really, if you're going after wealth, you're not sitting there splitting hairs between interest rates and all of that. You just kind of simply ask, can we afford the car or not? So if you have the money for it, Kurt,

yeah, I would just cash it out and be done with it, be done with the purchase instead of kind of tiptoeing around and trying to play this mathematical game because debt, sometimes the toll on us is not always about math. What kind of car is this? Well, don't know yet. I'm not brand loyal or anything like that. So, you know, it'll be a mid-sized SUV of some kind, probably, to replace one that we have, which is a 2015 that we've, you know,

had for a number of years. And again, paid off and all that. And so we just, you know, thinking of what we're doing here in the future. You know, we're both retired. We tired early, both retired. Way to go. What's your net worth? Probably 2.5. Oh, incredible. Good for you guys. And you've got a ton of cash just sitting there and savings ready to go for a car purchase like this? Not a ton of cash. That brings a little bit of a twist into this. We have cash sitting available for expenses and things like that. However, if we get to cash, we would have to sell some investments, which then is a tax, potential tax issue with us, too. So we have to look at that as well. Yeah, that's one factor to look into, depending on what bucket you're taking from, whether it's cash, a taxable brokerage, a traditional account, Roth. And so the other piece to think about with this, Kurt, is that 0% is not free. There's no such thing as a free lunch, and the house always wins. You've heard those two things? That's why I don't go to Vegas. Exactly. And that's why I don't go to car dealerships, because number one, you almost never qualify. So they will push this 0%, but only the top, top tier credit folks will get that.

And it's not really free because the manufacturer builds that zero percent cost into the car. So you're paying full price, MSRP, zero discounts, no rebates. And so you're actually kind of getting screwed on the purchase price while feeling like you got a deal at zero percent. Sure. I guess I didn't put that angle. Yeah, when I went to the dealership, I said, hey, here's how much I have in cash to buy this car. Here's the check. And so that's exactly what I went in going with.

And they ended up working with me to get that price lower. And so that alone save me way more than any zero percent financing deal would. And so I don't want you to give up your buying power and negotiating power all for their fine print of zero percent, which is very short terms only. So you're not going to make that much of a spread, even if you hung on to that money. So I would just go, if you're not comfortable using that amount of cash to buy a car, it's probably too much car for you guys emotionally. Yep, got it. So that's a good way to think about it, too. But I think you're on the right track here. I just don't want you to get, you've done so well to be completely debt-free, $2.5 million net worth. Yeah, just go buy the car.

It's not worth the brain calories. Yeah, well, that's a good way to look at it. We've been blessed and worked hard over the years, invested well, had a lot of dumb luck. I always, you know, reference that. How did you do it? Well, we had some dumb luck, and I really did. On top of your diligence. Sometimes they go hand in hand.

The harder I work, the luckier I get. Really had dumb luck with Roth IRAs actually worked out really well for us. Wow. That's not dumb luck. That is being pretty strategic. The dumb luck was when those first came out, I was working, and we had a chief financial officer that talked about Roth and would kind of poo-pooing them. And I didn't really like the guy.

So I thought, well, if I don't like you, I'm going to do the opposite. I love that. I start investing heavily in Ross, as did my wife. So obviously, as you people know, when you retire, then you take that, you take that income tax-free, and then that, of course, reduces your taxable income, so you know, you can do some other things, just some other advantages there. So, you know, we take a blend. We take a blend of qualified and unqualified accounts for our income and live comfortably and are able enough, you know, comfortably enough to still do things with our adult kids and take them on trips, you know, once a year or so. And my mom and dad flip the bill for that, although we do require that they buy dinner one night.

Hey. Well, hey, you're living the dream, Kurt. That's a lot of people. Yeah, you've done really well. That's on their list that they always say. They're like, I just want to be able to do X, Y, Z. And we hear that all the time. I want to be able to take my family on a trip with the grandkids and all of it. And so, yeah, you're living the dream, Kurt. Well done. And I'm going to, I'm going to say maybe some luck in there, but also maybe some awareness of other people's character and you would choose them do the opposite of their advice, which I would say is not dumb luck. I think that's pretty wise on your part. That's true. And a good reminder for our car buying

parameters, number one, always pay cash. Number two, make sure the total value of all things, wheels and motors in your life adds up to no more than half of your annual income. So if you make 100 grand, no more than 50 grand tied up with those things. And then the last part of this is don't buy a new car unless you were a net worth millionaire. Because the depreciation on that thing, you can't take that hit unless you've got a sizable net. worth to stomach it. And luckily, Kurt is in that spot. He's retired, two and a half million dollar net worth. He has the cash to do it. And so this might be the first brand new car they ever buy. And it's worth it. Yes. Okay. So tell me this, George, because you said, you showed up with

the check. Yes. Jade has an opposite approach. She does not tell them that she's paying with cash. Oh, I didn't do it up front. But eventually they do ask. Yeah, yeah, they will ask. Yes. But sometimes we have found, if you actually lead with that, they sometimes are a stickler because they know they're not going to make as much money off of you because they make so much more. When you finance the vehicle, that's when the car dealer makes more. I've even heard what they'll charge you more. They'll say, well, that online price was only if you were financing. Yes, yes, yes. And then I go, okay, I'm going to take my business elsewhere. That's right. That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So sometimes being strategic about how you're even going to pay

toward the beginning of kind of the negotiation and the looking on the lots, something to think about. The thing that I always land is the out-the-door price. That's the word you want to say. Land the out-the-door price before you ever talk about payment. And you don't have to lie, but you can just say, oh, well, once we figure out the outdoor price, we can talk about payment. How we're going to pay for it. Yeah. Exactly. That's it. It's that simple and it's that difficult because those dealerships, man, they're trained to sell. They are trained to get you to finance. And if you're not going in strong with the willpower to walk away, you will lose. Yes, they'll sway you. For sure. All right. Let's go out to Michaela in San Diego up next. What's going on,

Michaela. Hi, how are you guys? Doing great. How can we help? I am so excited to talk to you guys. I have a question. How do we prepare and plan a six-month emergency fund for our family when our situation financially is constantly changing? What's changing about it? Well, we are military. So our BAA, I talked to Ramsey online, and they're like, you need to have your BAH in there. Well, the thing is that adjust by rank and adjust by location. So we're up for three moves. And because of that, it's about a $20,000 difference between each location of how much we'd have to have saved up. Is there a way we can not shortcut it? But I hate to have 20 grand just sitting there because, well, we're going to be over here in like another year or so, you know what I mean?

Yeah. How often are you guys, you said you're up for, how long is the renewal? for? We will be moving three times in the next year and a half. Okay. It'll constantly be changing and then we're settled for about three years total. Okay. Okay. Yeah, because the purchase of the emergency funds obviously is to cover anything major that's

happening in that three to six months, it varies. So if you guys have six months, maybe there's a season where you go down to three because you know you're going to be moving in four months somewhere else, right? Like, I mean, so I would be comfortable with that. I think within that range, and it's, again, it's really there to protect the big stuff, an unexpected, you know, medical events, a job loss, right? And I would assume you guys are pretty job secure where you are. Would you agree?

Yeah. Yeah, we're pretty job secure. The issue that we're having, I guess the crux of the whole question is for our family, living here in San Diego, because our housing takes care of everything. us, our personal emergency fund, including our out-of-cost deductible for insurance, is about 14 grand. But if we include our housing allowance, which is what online is telling us to do, it's about 55 grand.

So you see, like, and then it increases as we move or might decrease dramatically as we move. So is there a way to account for that fluctuation? Because I hate to have money just sitting there. I hate to say just sitting there. Well, I don't want you to think it's sitting there. Just sitting there really doing nothing. This is an insurance plan.

And so it's not an investment. It's okay if it's not in the market. We always recommend a high-yield savings account. That way, at least it's growing the rate of inflation around 3%. But you're not letting it just fester in a savings account making zero either. And so don't think of it as I'm just wasting this money. It's sitting in this account. That's money that's helping you sleep better at it. Yeah. So what would just make you feel good? If you said this amount of money's in there regardless if you need that much. my gut says about 40 grand because that would cover where we eventually want to settle down so if something were to happen he loses his position he loses the job in the Navy we would have enough rent to cover six months in the desired location perfect how much do you have now but I just didn't know like can we just stop that there well we thought we were done maybe step three and then we consulted the AI and they're like no you did BAH so we have about 14 grand in there right now so By the end of next year, or yeah, by the end of next year, it'll be completely fully funded and then some. Great. I would just lean towards that higher number and not fluctuate every time there's a move. We can take it down. We can take it up. Just leave the $40,000 in there, and it's okay. If it's making 3% and it's letting you sleep better at night and you're not worried about what the next move is going to entail and what if, what if, I would just let it sit there. No one's ever regretted having too much. It's when they don't have enough. That's a problem.

And honestly, you know, a lot of people's problems, they look up, they do their emergency funds. And they go on with the babysaps and then they look back and they actually this happened at Winston I and we're like, oh gosh, we probably should, we should, we should fill that a little bit more because our life has gone up, right? And so almost, you know, having that 40 grand for you guys, that feels like a high emergency fund. Yeah, I mean, six months depending on your level of income. Is it a really high? That's, you know, six or seven grand in expenses times six months will get you there. Yeah. That's not outrageous for today's world. And in San Diego. In West Coast. Yeah, yeah. Some people are going, man, I wish my expenses were $6,000 a month. And if you don't have debt, that also helps out a ton. Yes. But all that to say, you guys could have this funded and then who knows what life looks like. And in five years, you may not even have to fill it up because you guys have just set it there and let it be. So, yeah, I think with the amount of change that occurs with you guys, especially, I think you said in the next year or two, I think just good to have that buffer. And then if something comes up and you need to use it, it's there.

right. And again, it's an insurance plan and that you're transferring the risk. So now you're, you're not having to carry that. The emergency fund is carrying that for you. And another type of insurance insurance we talk about is life insurance, which you're transferring a different risk of your income. And people fall into two camps on this one, Rachel, the ones who make a plan to protect their family or the ones who just fingers crossed hopes everything will work out. And that's not a strategy. And chances are if you're watching this show right now, you're the kind of person who wants to make a plan, who wants to love their family well. So when you get married, you have kids. Your money decisions aren't just about you anymore. Your income helps keep the lights on,

pay the mortgage and put food on the table. And if something happens to you, you got to wonder, is my family protected or are they going to be an alert? Yeah, that's right. And we really recommend people getting 10 to 12 times their annual income, usually with a 15 or 20 year term. And again, you're thinking, you know, if you have kids at home, you know, if your mortgage is paid off and all of that, eventually you can get to a point in your financial journey where you become self-insured. But until that point, which usually takes people a good bit to get to feel safe there. That's why 15 or 20 years is there. Exactly right.

So by the time it expires, hopefully if you're following the Ramsap plan, you'll be self-insured. And so Winston and I have term life. You and Whitney, I know, have term life. And especially, you guys, if you're younger, it is inexpensive. It is something that, I think it's one of the biggest regrets if you don't get it and something happens and we've taken those calls, which is just, it's devastating. But what we love is Xander insurance because they're an independent broker. So they're going to shop all different companies to really get you the best rate. So if you want an instant quote in just minutes, go to Xander.com or you can

call 800 at 356, 4282 and get your family protected with term life insurance. It's a really important step, you guys. So again, zander.com. Let's go out to Alicia in Asheville up next. What's going on, Alicia? Hey guys, how are you doing? We're doing great. What's going on with you? Good. So I'm calling about two months ago.

I found out that my husband left up probably about $87,000 in credit card and personal loan debt. Oh, wow. He was day trading with Robin Hood, and I just found out about it. Oh. How did you find out? I'm sorry, Alicia. Oh. So I, we were playing.

a trip to Disney World and, you know, we've had our finances separate. I know that's bad now since I've been watching the show. I've had a gut feeling about, I just had a gut feeling that someone was off out asked him, like, what can you pay? What can you do to contribute to the trip? And he was just kind of, I don't know, he was kind of dismissive. And so I finally asked him, like, what's going on? There's some red flags here.

and then I found out about all of the debt. I have all the logins to all of his accounts now, and so I found the debt. So he eventually told you once you started saying, hey, what's really going on here? He said, hey, I've been using this app, Robin Hood, I've been day trading, and I racked up all this debt. Did he tell you the exact amounts?

Nope. At first it was $45,000, and then when I got on his credit corner, I found all of the accounts, and I went through his spending, and it finally came out to the total amount. The 87,000 is just the debt. So he spent far more than that, but he's just in the hole by 87 grand at this point across personal loans and credit cards is how he did it? Yeah, yes. And he depleted his previous 401K as his previous employer, and he's taken about 18,000 from his current employer.

So he's having to pay that back. Took it from... So he's robbed two 401 case. His old one and his current one. Okay, okay. So where is he at right now in this? He's gotten a second job. I am a high earner here, so it's very difficult.

I've tried to look for work, but I can't compete with, you know, it's hard for me to find a job. I'm a pharmacist, and I'm in research. tell at a clinic, so I can't go out to my CBS or Walgreens and get another job. I don't know that income is the number one solution right now. I'm more worried about his gambling addiction that he hasn't called out yet. Yes. Yes. So he's in counseling for that right now. He has separate counseling. We have counseling together, and I also have counseling. So we've already started that. I'm watching his accounts. He just,

told me basically that he got in over his head and he just was trying to pull himself out and it just kept getting worse and worse. Yeah. And there's probably a reality to that for sure that I, we see that a lot. And then what George said is true. Like when we see, and it is, it's the number one addiction by like a hundredfold, um, is now gambling online. It's this kind of stuff. And so he is, you know, sadly, you know, walked right in to a trap. that so many, so many people are dealing with. And it's very, it's such a sneaky addiction because like what you just said is what we hear all the time is,

well, just give me one more chance and I can, and I can, and I can get, I can make more. It'll be different this time. Yes. Yes. And so you see it and you see the spiral happen. And so, so yeah, so for you guys, I think keeping your accounts separate, are they still separate? Good. which I would I would recommend at this point and really you guys figuring out a roadmap to rebuild trust together because the redemption on the positive side of all of this is after his awareness of what's going on within him,

you know, getting even in GA, you know what he mean? Like whatever tools he needs in life to really overpower this is going to be. so big and and the positive you know the the redemptive side is that he does get control of this and you guys then eventually do merge everything and you become one with your money you get out of this debt and you guys run off into the sunset together and you know what I mean today and it and it works but until you have some really serious changes in him I would I would still keep it separate. And I'm curious, how much do you make? Because you said you are the high earner. I make 150. Okay. And he makes probably 42. Okay. Where is his money going right now? Where is it

depositing into? All of his loans into one account. He, I mean, he has probably $600 dollars left over from his earnings. I'm paying all the bills right now, which I used to have a lot more money left over. Now I don't. And so I'm trying to navigate how, what debt I pay off first because I've got a lot of student loan debt. How much debt do you guys have total? So he has 87 right there. What else is there?

Probably about $511,000. We have our home with $225. Oh, that counts the home. And I have student loans. I have to do loans of like $156,000, but I do work for a nonprofit, so I am on the public to get my loans repaid off. How far are you into that process? I'm only three years, so I still have another seven years to go. That scares me a little bit.

I know. Or hang on to a lot of hope on the other end. I know. I have a many questions too. It's like, what do I do? Do I start throwing money at that? or do I hope for forgiveness and start with another debt? No, I mean, I would not hang on to the idea of the student loan forgiveness,

because, number one, seven years is a long time and you're changing your career. What people end up doing is not taking a better job. They hold on to a job because they're looking at $200,000 of student loan debt to be repaid. And so it just limits your options in life. And, I mean, personally, I'm like, who knows what the government's going to do in seven years? years, right? I mean, they changed their mind. I feel like on so much. And so to hang your hopes that it actually is going to happen, that's not where I would put my hope. I'd put my hope in you guys, Alicia, I would. I would put my hope in you guys working your way out of this. And you really put,

you know, your future in your hands and it's not being lent out to the government out of all people, right, that they're going to fix the problem. And so, so I think, so his paycheck is just going straight to his loans to pay off that 87 is what you're saying. Yeah, but that's just a minimum payment. So it's, okay, it's not really making a dent in the overall. How many loans are there did he have? 14. 14, okay.

And you- He has about seven personal loans and seven credit cards. Okay. Have you guys pulled your credit reports? Yes. Okay. And have you frozen your accounts with all three bureaus with those? Yes.

Okay. Because the part we need to watch for now is the boundaries to make sure that we don't bump into anything along the way, going to any further debt. And so blocking all access, I'm guessing the Robin Hood app is long gone, deleted account shut down. Yes. Okay. Yes. Okay. I would definitely attack this with the debt snowball method, and your marriage healing is a huge part of that process.

That would be the priority here. And then on top of that, we're going to work together to attack these debts. I don't want you to feel like it's all on you, and he's got to pay off all of his debt. I would just make this a big pile and say, we're a team. All of this money is going to go towards debt payoff. That's the goal while covering all the bills. And by the end of this, it might be three, four years from now until you guys are completely debt-free from your consumer debts.

Okay. Yeah, and Alicia, too, I would be, and you probably are with your counselor, which I think is great, but in situations where the spouse is the one that ends up from a tactical level being the thing that kind of cleans up the mess from the other spouse. You know, resentment can build, you know, which is human, right? I mean, like, there's a lot of emotions that will go in this process that actually, as you process them and not suppress, but you actually get it out. And having a third party like a counselor is such a good place to do all of that,

to work through that healing. That's going to be part of the healing. So I want you to feel all the feels and, you know what I mean? Be as pissed as you need to be because it is. It feels like, oh my gosh, this is not right because it's not right. It's betrayal. I mean, you've lost all trust in him. Yes, yes.

That's right. So all of that is so cleansing, honestly, because like what George said in three years, I'm praying from the emotional standpoint you guys are healed from a marriage perspective. And then financially, you know, I think you will get there. It's just going to be a day by day fight to do it. But, yeah, I hope there's a roadmap, a very clear roadmap for him. to rebuild trust with you because that's what he's going to have to do. And those actions coming up will be dictating how that's going to go.

And if he's not willing to change, that's a separate discussion. But it sounds like he is, which gives me hope. He's willing to change. There's actual remorse here. And Rachel's the number one reason young people are always asking me, what's wrong with Robin Hood? Why do you guys hate on Robin Hood? This is why. Yes, it is a form of gambling.

The fidelity and Vanguard account are not going to be pushing trading on you. I literally took a screenshot of this Robin Hood ad that showed up on my feed. Bitcoin is moving. Will it finish above or below? Trade the next 15 minutes on Robin Hood with 15 minute contracts. Now in your prediction markets hub, they don't care about your long-term wealth building plan. They want to take your money now. With urgency, with day trading, with crypto. And it's why I rebuke all things Robin Hood. They are not, they don't have your best interest at heart. No, it's a short-term hit. Just like any other like any other medicator in life, it plays right into all of that. It plays right into it. And people, walk right in, you guys, and it's not worth it. It is so, so dangerous. So, Alicia, call us back if you need anything else because we're cheering for you guys. I really pray on the other end of this. You guys have such a stronger, more intimate marriage and financially that you guys are on the same page and you're working together. That's so tough. So tough. Well, you know, George, one place, though, we nixed Robin Hood for sure, but one place that we do trust.

fully and somewhere that I do we do put our money is with fair wins credit union because it's really tough to find a financial institution that is for you and they want you to win they want to see even the Ramsey plan have progress with their customers and that's one reason we love fair wins exactly and I'm a consumer advocate I like to think and so I hate when you know banks are charging all these random fees and they're like why do they why are they charging me this well fair wins doesn't do these nuisance fees. In fact, they got rid of some after watching my channel. Some international transaction fees.

And they're like, let's get rid of that. We don't need any of these fees. Let's help the Ramsey audience win. So they're not going to push debt products on you. They have 10 different high-yield savings accounts you can open. So you can have different funds for all kinds of things, a no monthly fee checking account. And of course, I've got my custom debt is normal.

Be Weird. Fairwin's debit card right here. Well, I've got my Live Like No One else. Do you see this? Yeah, that's the new one. This is the new one. Live like no one else. So that way, every time you use this card, you're reminded about the goals.

You're reminded about your own values. You're reminded about the endgame. And so Fairwinds can help you do that with their smart bundle. Go check it out at fairwins.org slash Ramsey. It's insured by the NCUA. Let's go out to James and Fresno up next. James, what's going on? Hello.

Thank you for taking my call. I appreciate it very much. Sure. I got a situation. I'm in a jam here. I'm 60 years old, and I don't own a home. I don't have any debt. I started listening to you guys about six months ago, which I really enjoy your show.

But I did discover that I had to start off with square one in my life, so I started from the basis, and I'm trying to save up an emergency fund, and I've been doing okay with that, and put tithing and really just, funds in my life as well. But my question is, do you think I am eligible to retire for my job? And I'm thinking, if I want to buy a home, should it be best that I retire and try to find another job to supplement the add to my income? Do you have any retirement coming out of this current job? Yeah, I don't have any money saved up, but the job that I'm working for, I work for the state. So I have, I've been working for 27 years. So I have a pension, if that's what you're saying.

Yeah. But I don't have any money. I don't have anything saved up like on the side other than I'm trying to build an emergency fund. Okay. I do have a pension that I'm eligible, I'm eligible to get a pension if I do retire. What would the pension look like if you retired today? If I retired today, supposedly, and I was going back and forth with, what, with CalPERS, that's with the the company is and they were saying I'll probably bring home maybe a couple hundred dollars more than I make which right now I bring home 7,000 and then I'm supposedly to get a 2% I guess cost 11 grades every two every year from there anywhere from 2 to the 4% I just you know I listening to you guys talking about home ownership has really gotten to

and see right now I rent and I pay 2100 under the month. So I don't know where. I think that's right in that area a little bit higher than one fourth of what I take home. Sure. But, um, so you're saying you could leave your job, still get that 7,000 plus a month, go work somewhere else, and that'll help you bolster the emergency fund and save up for a house. Yeah, you know, and I've been praying about it, man, because like I said, what's on paper, what I see is totally different. And this is when I'm here from other people in the same situation, does and retire. They said, hey, if you retire,

you know, they're telling me this, but I'm the type of person I need to go down and check it out for sure. Oh, yeah. Let's cross those T's not the eyes. Not just one person told me. Supposedly, one of the last of the few that's at a 3.0

at 50 and be able to retire 100% medical. Because right now, they changed it about 2013 where now if you work, you have to, you know, it's 2.5 and you have to do 30 years. Well, I'm grandfathered in at 3.0 at 20 years. So technically, I could have retired at 51 or whatever.

So if you keep working, is there any benefit to the pension? That's the question I've been trying to figure out. I keep thinking that because of the 3%, that and then whatever additional raises, the states throws at me at us right now, you would say the economy is not the best, but at the same time, everything is. is calculated as we get raises. And I suppose, you know, I mean, that would be part of my homework is.

Yeah, figure out if you're going to get more pension as you stay longer. Because the goal right now is how do we fill up the emergency fund as fast as possible and save up for a house as fast as possible. And I hope there's a job on the other side of this. But what if it's hard to find a job that, you know, making decent money like you were doing? Exactly. And then I'm not the type of person listening to you guys for, I'm into this cash paying thing, so that's like if I can't get it, you know, and if you look at my numbers now, it's just like it says, me and my wife, my children are grown, they got their degrees and thank God for that. I've been blessed to live here for a while, but, you know, do you like the job? Would you keep working it without money being a factor? Or would you be like, hey, I'm ready to be done?

Let's put it this way. I'm in a good, I'm in a good position to where, I mean, it's, it's, yeah, I like what I do. I would, but when you look at, I could probably work somewhere. I'm in California, so I don't know, even if I took the base and said minimum wage and I did for, you know, full time, I can at least bring home $2,000 more on top of what I'm doing, you know. Here's what I would just go apply. I don't like to add stuff until it's like this, you know what I would just start applying for jobs. And if you get a great one, that's sort of your ticket to go, all right, I'm out. I know I have a guaranteed pension of over $7,000. Plus I have this new great income. But I would get the boat close to the dock first. Yes, 100%.

But, man, if you could go replace that and bring in $14,000 where he's at, that emergency fund gets filled up. And then, you know, you go find a condo for $300,000 probably in Fresno. I think the median home price in that area is like $4.50. So you think, you know, find it just a great one bedroom, if that's what you need or a two bedroom, just to be a homeowner. Get your foot in the door. Right. I mean, after a year of savings, you could have an amazing, like if you put $7,000 away a month for a down payment. Keep your expenses low and just sock away eight, nine grand. In 10 months, you'll have, you know, 70,000 for a down payment, which will be great. You know, so I do think that that pension's amazing. So if there was a way to get that and then be working on

top of it just until maybe 65, 66, like another five, six years, you can make massive progress to be able to do that. I love it. Thanks for the call. I know, James, you're a newer listener. And so if any of you are new around here, one thing to know is that we answer every money question through the framework of the seven baby steps. So we're talking getting out of deck, getting the emergency fund in place before you invest.

So if you're not familiar with the baby steps, check them out at the link below in the description. That'll help you follow along. Let's go out to George in Dallas, Texas up next. George, welcome to the show. Hey, I was going to think so taking my call. Sure. What's your question?

I am a international student. I graduate in December. They do not yet have OPT, and I have student loan debts from a private lender. And I was wondering if I should pause payments, which I have already right now, continue to defer until I graduate, or if I should start making payments

so that I don't eat as much interest when I do graduate in December. So you graduate in a few months, and you have enough that I guess this semester has been paid for already. Is that right? Yes, semester is covered right now. Okay, perfect. And your student loan total will be what when you graduate? 70,000. 70, okay.

What's your degree in? Cybersecurity. Oh, good for you. Okay. And will you be, when you're looking at the job market, on average, you know probably what your entry-level job in that field will be? Yeah, entry-level probably been around 80 to 90. Okay. But the thing is, I am an international student, and two things need to happen at the same time for me to get a job.

Okay. Which is OPT, and then get a job that's willing to use my OPT for allowing me to work. So it's going to be more difficult for it. for you. Very likely at the moment, yeah. Yeah. Well, the problem with these private student loans is that the interest is adding up every day, even though they're in deferment. Have you checked in on the fine print on that? Yes, it is. Yeah. So that's my fear. If you just let these hang out and well, they're not requiring a payment, you're going to wake up and the 70 is going to turn into 80. And so if you have income right now and you can throw some or even make the minimum payments,

that's going to help keep the interest at bay. So what is your current income? If anything. I'm only working on campus, which I make 15 bucks an hour, and I'm only about to work 20 hours a week. So every month, it's around 12, 1,100 if I don't work as much. And what are your expenses every month? My expenses are covered by my siblings. Okay, good. So that, is that money you earn, is that money you could be throwing at the debts? No. The only money I could throw at the debt is $1,200 a month. Yeah. So do you have more upcoming payments for the next semesters? No, this is my last semester. Yeah, he's done in December.

Perfect. So if you're done, then I would just start chunk of money at that. Yeah, I would start now because unlike federal loans, obviously, where the, nothing really starts until you graduate. These private student loans, yeah, just what George is saying, they're continuing. So any money you can throw at it. Do you know how much the interest payment is a month? Have you looked into it? I think it's maybe 600 bucks right now. Okay. So, yeah, so I mean, I would be, that would be my minimum, what I would do just to be paying the interest to keep it there.

But yeah, anything that you can throw at it today to answer your question is what we would do. Especially when you know you have income coming in, because I don't know if there's going to be a gap between once you graduate, you're not working on campus and you have a job. So I would use the money you know you have coming in to at least attack the interest plus some of the principal, and that way you have less of a mountain to climb once you do graduate. Best of luck there, man. That's a tough one.

Well, if you are watching the show and doing your best to budget and work the baby steps, every major expense people are looking at. And health care, George, is one of those biggest ones that a lot of people pay for. And so that's one reason we recommend Christian health care ministries, because CHM is not insurance. It's a health cost-sharing ministry. and that means that members pay each other's medical bills, and they have been serving Christians since 1981, and their program started just $115 a month. And it does matter because if you are paying more than you need for health care, that money could be going towards paying off debt or investing or giving or spending or anything in your life, just that freed up margin.

That's huge. I just saw a video actually. It was a primary care doctor who said their insurance, because she's self-employed. was like $40,000 a year. Oh my gosh. And so because of that, they switched over to one of these health cost-sharing ministries to lighten that load. So this can be a great option for a lot of people out there. So, and here's something really cool. They're not raising their prices this year, which is huge in the health care world right now.

If you know what's going on, you get to choose your own health care provider, no network limits. And right now, new members can receive a 50% credit toward their first month of membership. Go to C.H.ministries.org slash budget. Use promo code Ramsey. All right. Let's get back to the phones. Leah awaits in Grand Rapids. What's going on, Leah? Hi, I'll make this short and sweet. I'll just read my question. I'm a little nervous, so.

Take your time. Oh, you're doing great. Leah, you're doing great. My husband and I are separated, and I want to work on a relationship, but he says he'll only work on things if I sign a post-nup. We already have a pre-nup. I think because it's insulting and indicates he's not really committed. I need some guidance. What's the conditions of this? What is he wanting out of this? Well, he wants the business to be completely separate. We're self-employed. We have a construction business. So you're both in business together? So, yes, we're both on the LLC and we have joint accounts, yes. But his separate property started the

business. So he started the business? And so he's wanting full ownership of that? Well, the business started after we were married, but his separate property went into starting the business. Okay. So one of his assets was used to start the business. And so he's saying, does he just want that asset or does he want the whole business as part of the post-knup? The whole business. Did something happen in the business that was part of the separation that he doesn't trust you for? some reason? No, huh? So he just, he just wants it in order to get back with you? Right. That's a very odd bargaining chip. He thinks that it protects his life insurance because the business, you know, has had losses and gains over the years and that initial investment has, you know, we know, we don't know where that

initial investment is now. How much was it? Do you remember? The initial investment. was about one million. Okay. And how much is the business worth today? About three and a half. Well, that makes no sense. You said the business was started after you guys were married, and you've been contributing every step of the way?

Not physically working, but I do the books. Okay. I would call that a contribution. Yeah. Do you guys have kids? Yes. Okay. And are you home with them most of the time?

and doing the books? Yes. Yeah, so I see this business as an asset in the marriage. And I mean, and even the way we talk about pre-ups to people that, you know, if there's a pre-up and there's because there's a big difference in, you know, a financial standing with each other, you know, even the one we kind of all lean toward, I think, is that, you know, whatever you bring into the marriage is yours, if something were to happen. But everything you build from that point on after you say I do, then, is considered.

co-mingled. Yeah, it's a marital joint, right, at that point. And so this business would be that. So signing something away that gives you nothing at the end of this, Leah, I feel weird. What other assets do you guys have besides this business? How much money do you guys have? So the majority of the majority of the assets are all in the business. In the business. It's not cash.

So it leaves you with nothing, essentially. Yeah, what caused the separation in the first place? Verbal and emotional abuse. I'm assuming from his end to you. Yes. And what's causing you to want to go back? The children. How old are the kids?

We've got two and seven. and 10. Leah, are you seeing a good counselor or therapist through this process? Yes. Okay. And what is she saying? She's saying that I need to look towards the future and taking care of the children. Yeah.

Yeah, his language already with you guys getting back together feels very wrong, which would put in that category of what abuse feels like. It's a power move. This is another manipulation tactic right here. Yes. Is dangling this thing over you. And we, I mean, I can't even imagine being in your position with these kids and how badly you want what you thought you were building a life towards and you want that life back.

But, I mean, I've heard our friend Dr. Johns Looney talk about all the time that, you know, the reality you're in now, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a true moment. You just have to grieve of what you wanted is not. And for your safety, Leah, and for the well-being of you as a whole human being, doesn't feel like you can live a great life with a man who is an abuser. And he doesn't sound like he's willing to change. Yeah, I don't think him getting this business fixes your marriage. That's my big hang-up on. If anything, it's a bigger red flag to me. It's one thing if he's just overly remorseful and is like, I will do anything to get you back. And do you know what I mean? But the fact that he's,

already thrown a postnup, which I don't have really even heard of. And the only asset that you guys have in your livelihood, that he's not even willing to give you that. I think he's telling you something without actually saying it. Okay. Have you talked to your own family law attorney? Not much. A little bit, yes. And it's yours personally, not his? Correct. Okay. I would find out what this business is actually worth and what your legal claim. claim to it already is, independent of what he's offering. I don't want you to rush into this trying to save the marriage, and then it still doesn't work out and you have nothing. That's a very scary proposition. Yeah, and I would want to know if you go the opposite direction, Leah, and you end up filing for divorce from this man, what your legal standing is with this business to create a life for you. Because I don't think none of us can, I can't in good faith sit behind this microphone and tell you to walk back into a marriage.

with a man that treats you like that. You can't do that. It's not worth it. And I understand for the kids' sake, but it actually creates a worse environment and setting them up to show a picture of what they should expect in marriage. And you know that that is not what they should expect.

You want better for your kids. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm so sorry. I just can't, in good faith, tell you to go forward with that. I just can't. And how heartbreaking that is.

And I know I can say that and then we move on and you have to live with the repercussions of it. But I think you in five years are in a much healthier, better spot than living under the roof with a man who's abusive. You just can't. There's no alternative to that. And those kids are, they can see it. They know what's going on in the house. Even at two, seven, and ten, they're emotionally taking this all in. and so for your own sake, Leah, I would go to safety, I would talk to the lawyer, and it doesn't

sound like on the other side of this post-up is this beautiful, perfect marriage all of a sudden. I've just never seen it work that way, and based on everything you said, he hasn't changed. That's the scariest part. So I'm so sorry, Leah. I'm so sorry. Awful. Hey, it's Rachel Cruz. I don't know about y'all, but I can build something up in my head until it feels way harder than it really is.

I'll convince myself it's going to take forever, be super complicated, or cost of fortune. Then I finally sit down to do it, and I wonder why I waited so long. Making a will might be one of those things for you. That's why I love Mama Bear legal forms. They've taken something that can feel overwhelming and made it so simple. Their online wills are designed by attorneys and tailored for your state. And while you're on the Mama Bear website, it'll walk you through the whole process step by step, so you feel confident that you're doing it right

and that your loved ones will be taken care of. Plus, making your will with Mama Bear only takes about 20 minutes. So don't make a mountain out of a molehill. Go to Mama Bearlegalforms.com and use promo code Ramsey to save 20% on your will. That 20% off is exclusive to Ramsey fans only. Mama Bearlegalforms.com with promo code Ramsey.

Hey, what's up, guys? It's Jade Warshot. Now, I know a little something about saving money. While my husband and I were paying off over $460,000 in debt, we went over every expense in our budget to find ways to cut back. Nothing got a free pass, including our phones. And you need to be doing the same thing. And now with Boost Mobile, one of the easiest places for you to save money is your phone bill.

Their unlimited plan is just $25 a month forever. With a price that nice, why would you ever go back to your old carrier? And with Boost Mobile, there's no contracts, no hidden fees, and no surprises, which makes this a no-brainer when it comes to saving money. Best part, you can keep your phone and your number when you switch. So it's not like you're making some huge lifestyle change. Listen, you need a phone, but you don't need to be overpaying every month. So whether you're paying off dead or building wealth or you just want to keep more of your money in your pocket,

this is a win. Go to boostmobile.com slash Ramsey and make the switch today. That's boostmobile.com slash Ramsey. $25 forever requires customers to remain active on Boost Mobile Unlimited plan. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm George Camel here with Rachel Cruz, taking your calls at AAA 825-5-2-2-25. We want to hear from you guys. So jump in the comments on YouTube, Spotify, wherever you're listening.

Tell us what connected with you about today's show, a call you enjoyed, some feedback, how you would have taken it. We want to hear it all. So jump in the comments. We love to see you guys jump in there. Katie is up next in Chicago. Katie, how can we help? Hi. I just had a question. I am part of an S corporation that's family owned. I own only about 5% of it. However, my uncle embezzled millions from it. He sold one farm back in, I believe, 21 for 5.2 million and another farm for 7.8 million. He then, unbeknownst to us, did not pay the capital gains taxes. on it, which created a massive tax liability for my family to the tune of about $90,000.

In addition to that, he also bankrupted my own business and therefore slashed our income by two-thirds. So we are having a heck of a time trying to pay our mortgage, pay just general expenses. We have two small kids and just need some guidance on. what to do and where we go from here. Oh, my gosh. So the the $13 million of property that he sold, where did that money go? He embezzled it into an LLC that he set up a full number LLC that we didn't. We recently found out about this within the past year. Is he in jail? I've been trying to make that. No, not yet. We have a lawsuit out, but it's so slow. And people really just don't, yeah, it just seems to never move. Is there a real chance you get any of this money back?

I have strong suspicions, but it's offshore somewhere. So you're saying this is not coming back into our bank account? Anytime soon, no. Yeah. Oh, my gosh, Katie. That's horrible. How many family members were part of the business? So my mom is at like 42%, I believe.

I have 5%. My brother has 5%. And then my uncle had an equal share as my mom. and he was the one managing the business. He was the one who did all this. And we kind of ran it off of, you know, trust because he's, you know, he's our uncle. What kind of business is this? Yeah.

It's real estate land management kind of stuff, a lot of farmland. Okay. And is there any chance he can continue to embezzle funds from this business? No, not currently. He pretty much drained everything we had. Okay, that's what I'm wondering. What is your 5% worth at this point? not much probably nothing is that what you are dependent upon that 5% to live off of

no um my husband and i both have decent jobs um and we that's separate from the business uh yes we we have we've since gotten other jobs yeah okay so how much do you guys make a year now my husband makes about 80 and i make about 48 okay okay And you said you're having a hard time paying your mortgage? Yes. I was with the business that he bankrupted in addition to our family company. I was making about $6,500 a month. And, you know, that's more than pay our mortgage and stuff like that. So you can't pay your mortgage from the $128 you guys bring in? Our mortgage is about $4,300. So it's really, really tight.

And that's your primary home? So that's primary and taxes included. Okay. And homeowner insurance as well, yeah. Oh, goodness. And who's going to pay the 90 grand to the IRS? Is there a payment plan there? That's what we're fighting.

So we have an agent, and she has been, hopefully, deemed as uncollectable right now. And so that'll get them off our backs for two years. However, our passports are suspended, and they have a federal lien on a. our home. We have tried to sell our house, and now they've saved the lien, and so we can't really sell anymore. So the only way to remove the lien is to pay the taxes? Yeah, I go right now, yes. Goodness gracious. Does anyone in your family have money at this point? Not really, no. It was all wrapped up in that business. By our estimates, he's embezzled $10.50 million. Okay. Well, it sounds like there wasn't a lot of wise financial moves happening outside of that. I mean, in their personal accounts.

No. There was no retained earnings in the business. He took that? Yes. He drained all of its assets. I'm just trying to figure out, let's say you guys decided to pay the 90 grand in taxes to remove all these liens for yourselves up and then try to recoup it later. Yeah. Because I don't know what you're going to do. If you can't pay the mortgage, they can still foreclose on you. Yeah, I'm wondering. Right. Katie, have you

talked to a good realtor? Like, if you didn't have the lien on the property, do you know how quickly you could sell it? Well, we tried before the lien was placed on our home, like last fall, winter ish time. We tried to sell her home for about

620 and then dropped the price eventually all the way down to like $580 or something like that. We owe about $4.40 on it. And, you know, we were obviously just going to go try to find something a lot more affordable. Yeah. And it just wasn't selling.

It just would not sell, no matter what we did. Because I'm just wondering if you could go take out. It's like cute and clean, you know, I mean, like it's something like that. And it's been a year. And, you know, there's more, yeah, there's more inventory probably than there was even last year. So that may not. There's 58% more sellers than buyers right now. And the ones that want to buy can't afford it at the rates.

home prices. So it's causing a little bit of a standstill right now in the market. But my person, I mean, if I was in your shoes, that's how I answer things. I would try to get out of this IRS debt to free up the liens so that you can even make a move. If you could get a personal loan even, I don't know if your credit shot because of everything, but I don't know if there's a personal loan to go get for 90. And you shouldn't be paying it. I mean, I think it should be if your mom owns 42% of the business and would get that if anything was recouped. You may want to split it differently. Okay. And maybe she should. She's in a better financial place than you guys.

Yeah, because you owe $90,000 because of your 5%. Is that true? Is that right? Yes. Your share alone. Like over 500. Oh, my gosh. So she's not in a great position either.

Yeah. Well, I hope the attorneys can get this guy and fight it and at least make it uncollectable, even if you can't recoup. That would solve some of this. But the other factor you can control is your income. So if you can go out, I mean, clearly you have great skills and talents. If you can go from making 48 to 80, now we're at 160, we can afford the mortgage for the foreseeable future. Right, right. That would be the one thing in your lever you can pull right now.

Yeah, my husband and I just got serving jobs as well that we can, you know, hopefully supplement and get out of some of this. Oh, Katie, I'm so sorry. I mean, this is such a crazy story. That's insane. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, well, you completely. I mean, just screw to everybody in the process.

I mean, my prayer is that they get him and that the court system gets in. Somehow the money is accessible. I know. That would be the best case scenario. But, oh, Katie, I'm so sorry. Yeah. I mean. Family business, not always.

If anything, getting a good attorney on your side, yeah, see if it's uncollectable. I mean, if you can get that off. But, man, I would want the IRS out ASAP if nothing really moves in six months, even if that's through a personal loan. stopping everything else from happening. Let's go out to Ashley up next in Fort Worth, Texas. Ashley, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, I am so excited to have the two of you for my question today. My husband and I, we love smart money, happy hours so much. So I'm excited to have the two of you guys for today. Yeah. So I'm 31, my husband's 32. We're on baby steps four, five, and six, and we are on

on track to pay our mortgage off in 2028. Awesome. Yeah, we're super excited. I'm. I'm My husband makes about $175K and he gets about a $75,000 bonus at Christmas and I make $70,000. Our kids are 6, 4, and 3, and we're going to be bringing them on our very first Disney World trip in January. Oh, the best. Yeah, we're excited. I've really been budgeting and planning everything out. And so with flights, hotels, park passes, meals, we're planning on it being probably about a $12,000 trip all in. And so my question is, I know that Disney can really get.

out of hand just with all the toys and just things that I know that kids are going to want to buy when we get there. And our thought to get ahead of that is to give them kind of each a little budget. So like 100 to maybe $200 each of spending money that they can spend on whatever they want when we're at Disney to keep it reasonable. But am I going to be a totally lame mom if I put my kids on a budget at Disney World? No. For 200 bucks for them to spend?

I was like, that's nicer than probably would have my kids spend at Disney. You're taking them to Disney World. No, you're not a lame mom at all. If they have any entitlement at Disney World, then like, Mom, but you didn't let us go on an unlimited shopping spree, that's insane. Then you've created a monster. No, what? I was going to say, if anything, you just have like one yes a day that they get to, you know,

pick one thing, they get one yes. What do you want your yes on? That's about as much as I would. I would have done a shopping spree before the trip and go, hey, you can spend $100, $200, bucks to get the merch beforehand. We'll bring it into the park. But once we're in there, we're not buying the thing. We'll feed you, but that's it.

Or maybe we get one souvenir at the end of the trip. That's under $100. And then they know ahead of time. The key is the boundaries ahead of time. It's when they're surprised that they throw the fit. That's right. Yeah. And, you know, when you do this with your kids,

my parents did this all the time for us. We had to spend our own money. And once the money was gone, it's gone. Because what that did is it really does set you up. up as an adult. When that becomes how you spend money as a kid, Ashley, you're actually setting them up to live life on a budget. And that's not lame at all. You're actually raising very responsible kids. And so when they get their first paycheck, you know, they'll hopefully be downloading every dollar, which is our budget app, right? And it's the way you live your life is you have categories and you know where

your money's going and you're in control of it. And when you can start to learn that as a little kid, And especially in a fun, magical place like Disney out of all places, yes, yes, and amen. So no, I think you are a wonderful, wonderful parent for doing this. And you're a great parent, even if you didn't take them to Disney, right? Because it's so beyond this trip. But I think that that is a... You're not a lame mom, Ashley. In fact, only people who are cool moms question if they're a lame mom.

You know what I mean? The lame moms aren't thinking about that. I appreciate that. So you're an awesome mom. And I'm taking my kids to Disney for the... first time this year, Ashley. So I'll report back any tips and tricks as my three-year-old has a meltdown when she can't buy the mini mouse ears. Yeah. I'll eat my words and say, dang it, Ashley was right. Ashley was right. No, but if you do want to start budgeting, though,

that's, I mean, every dollar is it. And for trips out, you know, that you have in the future, and this is for anyone listening, start a sinking fund in every dollar, start preparing for it. So you can be like Ashley, you know, when you look up and you're like, oh, yeah, we got 12,000 bucks for this trip and we're going to budget, you know, 150 a day for the kids to spend. Like, you have it all earmarked. And that is part of having control and being able to spend and have that permission to spend emotionally, which is awesome. So yeah, you guys can check out every dollar for free.

You can download it in the app store or Google Play because whether it's a vacation or your monthly expenses, knowing and having a plan for your money, that is not lame. Right, George? That's cool. And age appropriate. I mean, the three-year-old has no concept of money. So they're not going to know, well, I have $200 to spend. The six-year-old might have a little bit more awareness.

The four-year-old's probably somewhere in between. And so I would just make it reasonable. But I think letting him know ahead of time, hey, guys, we're going to buy all the fun stuff before we go to the park and make that its own adventure. You know what? It's funny. I had, I did two trips with the kids to Disney, Winston and I did. And one trip, well, one trip, Winston was with us. And we, not because I home, but just in general.

We like, I was just, I refused to spend on, I mean, I would spend on snacks. But I bought all the stuff before. I was like, no, we're not buying all these bubble wands and like, no, no, no, no. I said no, the whole trip. And they were fine. Fast forward, I go with one of my friends, Christy Wright, who used to be here. And she brought her daughter. I brought my two.

And we just went for like two nights. We went for like a really fast trip with the girls. This was like a, this was a few years ago. And Christy's a yes mom. She's like, oh, Rachel. Oh my gosh, just say yes. Just say yes. So that trip I did.

I was a little bit more like, okay, if you want the bubble wand. You were the cool mom. You get the bubble wands. You want the extra pair. I did. spent some money on the extras. But can I tell you, those kids don't even remember that we bought that stuff. And that was probably three years ago. So like at the end of the day, they're really not going to remember. They may keep one stuffed animal. Yeah, they might throw a fit in the moment.

Through all the purging and stuff. But if you set it up ahead of time, we told our kids, we're like, we're not buying you all this stuff. I remember on that first trip. And they didn't really ask. And I don't know, it just wasn't, it wasn't a thing. And then when you buy it for them, it's still not a thing. A few years later, it's all just crap thrown away. I got a bubble wand when I was at Disney without my daughter. I was like, let me buy or something. So I found the cheapest. I thought you meant for you.

I'm like George is walking around Magic Kingdom with his bubble ones. But I found a clearance section bubble wand at Disney, which that exists. And it was like $5. And I'm so glad that I only spent $5 because it broke within two days when I go. I know, I know. This is why we shop clearance for the toys. The memories are usually not in the things. People remember that.

That's right. If your business is making seven figures or more, you should be proud of that. But that growth probably brought a mess with it. Systems that don't talk to each other. It's impossible to track down your numbers because they're scattered everywhere. That's a visibility problem. And NetSuite has solved that problem for more than 44,000 businesses like yours. NetSuite brings financials, inventory, CRM, and more into one place.

And their AI tool, NetSuite Next, builds AI into everything, automating busy work like forecasting demand and chasing down overdue accounts. It's not complicated to use. You just ask it questions like you're talking to a person. And you're not starting from scratch because NetSuite is built on leading practices from thousands of businesses preloaded and ready to go. Ramsey Solutions switched to NetSuite years ago. It helped us know our numbers and we've never looked back.

If your revenue is at least seven figures, try NetSuite next for free at net suite.com slash Ramsey. That's netsuite.com slash Ramsey or click the link in the description. If you're already enrolled in a Medicare plan, you might think there's nothing else to do. You're good to go. Wrong. The fact is Medicare premiums, networks, prescription coverage, and benefits can all change, even if your health doesn't. So doing nothing could cost you hundreds or even thousands of dollars a year. With annual enrollment time coming soon, you need to talk. to Chapter right away. Chapter is the only Ramsey trusted Medicare advisor, and they save Ramsey fans an average of $1,100 a year. They explain your options simply and help make the smartest decision

for your situation. And whether they find you a better plan or confirm you're already in the right one, Chapter Services don't cost you a thing. Medicare annual enrollment runs October 15th through December 7th. So review your plan with Chapter now and avoid expensive mistakes later. To talk to the unbiased Medicare experts at Chapter, go to askchapter.org slash Ramsey or click the link in the description. That's askchapter.org slash Ramsey. Up next, we've got Kay in Colorado Springs. Kay, welcome to the show. Hi, good afternoon. Thanks for taking my call today. Absolutely. How can Rachel and I help? I'm new to the baby steps, but not to saving.

And I can already hear Dave respond to my question saying, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid. But in my 20s, I invested in a whole life insurance plan. Stupid, stupid, stupid. I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. It's okay. It's okay. Well, so I lost my dad when I was 16, and it felt like the responsible thing to do in my 20s because life insurance plans not pay out.

And it felt like, oh, this is the kind that will. but I'm 46K paid in right now and it's worth about 30,000 and I just started listening to you guys really at the beginning of this maternity leave. So thank you for giving me something to listen to. And I'm thinking I should cash out of the life insurance plan because it's about a 558 per month premium. And I think that 558 can go way further if I invest it. And I think that the advice from you guys, okay. And I just don't know what to do with that 30,000. I have about 127,000 in consumer debt.

I guess 28 is a car and then 99 is a land loan with an arm. Oh, wow. And I just don't know if I should pay off the car or if I should pay into the land loan. What's the car worth? Probably, it's probably a wash. I think the car is about 28 to 30 and then the loan on it is. 28. Okay. And what's your household income? We're doing really well. We're at about 460. Amazing. Wow. Great job. So either way, all this debt could get paid off within 12 months.

Probably, yeah. Okay. And if you take that 30K, you can knock out the car loan today. Immediately. Yep. Do you guys have savings as well? So that's where I think we're doing not as well. So we have savings, retirement savings, but we don't have a lot of cash savings. We put everything into Roth IRAs, 401Ks, TSP accounts, but my cash savings is only about probably $30,000. Okay, so we'll call that a light emergency fund? Yeah, and then total net worth is about 1.3.

Amazing. Great job. Because I'm wondering where this amazing income is going every month. If you're taking home, like, I don't know, $30K every month? I think a lot of it is easy button. We have two young kids and we just decide to eat out. And I think we really need to, A, cut down on eating out and B, actually start budgeting because we haven't had to budget because we have the good income. Can you pretend like you make $10,000 a month?

I think we need to. And then throw 20 at the arm land loan and knock it out in a couple months. That'd be a pretty fun idea. Yeah. Yeah. Because 10 grand is still a pretty good life. I don't know what your mortgages, what your expenses are, but if you can just pretend like you've got 10 grand

and immediately transfer the other ones, the other money to the debt, you'll have this knocked out by spring, everything. So the car is gone today. The land loan's gone by spring. Now we're completely debt-free with tons of money in the bank, with tons of margin, and we've learned how to live on $10,000 a month,

which is the best part. Well, and you kind of combing through already your expenses, even with this whole life insurance policy, seeing being like, okay, where could this five fit? You know what I mean? Like you're, you're doing the right steps to look through all of this and just ask yourself, do we need this? Can we move this around? Yeah. And if you just do that in a few of these categories, like what you're saying and tighten up, and it won't feel great because you're going to feel like you make 10,000 versus making 30,000, right? You're going to feel a difference. But that's okay for a few months,

you know, to just to get through it and be done. Man, that's powerful. How old are you, Okay. I'm 36 and my husband is 48, so I have a little bit of an age gap. Okay, okay. And you've been paying in about 5.58 a month to this account since you were 18? No, since mid-20. It's like 26. Okay, so the last 10 years probably. Okay, okay. But even that, you've only come out, it's only worth 46,000? You said you've paid in 46, right? And you've 30,000 in cash value? And the cash value, yeah. Yeah, the cash out.

Okay. So here's the crazy part about Whole Life, just to run those numbers. So if you put that $5.58 and you just contributed that monthly for 10 years, instead of this Whole Life policy, you'd have $121,000 sitting in that account, in that brokerage account or investment account versus this. That's why it has such a terrible rate of return when people pay insurance and investments. So, but the beautiful thing is that, you know, if you just said, hey, for the next 30 years, we're going to just put that money in investments instead of paying this whole life insurance.

That's $1.5 million in 30 years. Hot digity dang. That's pretty cool. Yep. So it's pretty wild where that money can go. So I think it's just a great, and you already knew that, but I think just for people listening, when you actually run numbers of what you're putting your money into, it's, it is good to double check where else your money could be growing.

And if anyone is trying to push you into one of these cash value, permanent whole life policies, just run, just run far away. They don't like you. In fact, they hate you if they sell you one of these policies. And the sad part is it's usually close like family, family friends that push you and see you trust them. You go, well, they said it's a great thing to get. Yeah, or Kay looks up and she's like, oh my gosh, my dad died and I was a teenager and didn't have insurance. I need life insurance, right? And you run to whichever thing you see first, which is understandable in her case for sure. And a good call out. Always make sure you have term life insurance in place before you cancel the whole life policy. So we got ours through Xander. I know Rachel's family has theirs through

Zander. So you can jump on Zander.com. Get 10 to 12 times your annual income, 15 to 20 year term should do the trick. And you'll be in far better shape. Invest the difference than you would have paid with that whole life policy. And you will thank us later. Okay, well done though. On all your on all that you guys are doing, you got a great income. You guys have a great future. It's great. Yeah, it's hard to feel bad for you guys. You're crushing it. You're making half a million dollars. You're about to be debt free by spring. I like this plan. Way to go. All right, B is in New York City up next. B, welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you guys so much for having me on. So I just want to give a little backstory. So I'm 35, and last year I was running a daycare business. I did that for nine years, and due to hospitalization, I've been out of work since May of 2025. So I've been relying on family for the last year and a half. And I'm currently being sued by a debt collector. And so I have to give them an answer by next month.

I tried to call them to see if I could work out some type of payment plan, but what they're asking for, I don't think I can feasibly. I don't have any income at the moment, and I don't think family is really able to help me. I called a lawyer, and they were suggesting that I filed bankruptcy, but I'm not really sure as to what to do. and I have other debts on top of that as well. How much is your debt total, everything?

It's a little over $37,000, so I'll say $38,000. And what debt specifically is this one that's going to court? How much is it? So this is $5,800. Okay. And what is your plans for working in the future? When will you get another job? I've been applying over the last year,

but I only got one interview that didn't work out. And so far, I'm really not hearing back. I've been updating resumes, sending in things, but nothing so far. What kind of work have you been applying for? Everything. Target, Walmart. I really want to do some type of office or clerical or administration type of work, but I'm not getting anything.

Is that because you don't have, like, resume experience for those things? things. But not for Target. Well, for the clerical administrative work, if you're trying to, that's where you're trying to get to. Yeah. I mean, with the daycare, I was already doing, like, administration and paperwork. So I feel like I have the skills. And I did go to school for animation. So I know computers. And so it's not, I don't have, like, any technical issues, but I don't know. I'm just not getting anything. I don't know if it's a resume issue. I've been updating it. But. Well, usually just.

hearing anything. Putting your resume into a black hole in a website doesn't always. Have you gone in person to some places? To some places. But usually it's like, oh, they've already hired or, oh, hey, can you apply online? I'm like, yeah, I've done

that. So, but the ball hasn't been going in any direction. So how have you been paying bills? Like, how did you pay bills last month? I haven't been, but outside of necessities, families have been helping me with that, but I just don't have the money right now to pay any bill. Okay. And like going and, you know...

I've sold some stuff. Besides that, I've sold things. Like, I've sold all of my daycare equipment, all of the daycare toys, all of that type of stuff. But even like a restaurant, like waiting tables or driving Uber or Instacart, anything. Yeah, I don't have a car right now. But like I said, I have been going into places. Are you in New York City proper? No, I'm in New Jersey. Okay, but you can take public transportation? Yes. Okay. I'm just wondering for the, in the meantime, there's about to be a lot of seasonal work happening in retail, and there's so much turnover there that if you just show up every day, you'll be promoted within a couple months.

So I would keep hitting on that, and then the end goal is to get into that administrative, you know, work and hopefully scale up from there. Because the goal right now is income. It's hard to pay off any debt with a debt collector if you don't have the income coming in. But I would not file for bankruptcy. I would definitely respond and not just let it sit and respond and say, hey, I don't have a job right now. Can we negotiate a payment plan, a settlement? And over time, what you're going to find is they're going to have to make due with less. So instead of $6,800, you might be able to settle for $2,000 once you actually have that money as a lump sum. So that's your goal right now is just work, stack cash so you can get these debt collectors off your back.

Then you can attack the rest of your debts with the debt snowball. And working any job be, you already mean like, I mean this is, I mean, two, three jobs, working weekends, doing what you can because you really have an uphill battle to climb here. And it's all income. I mean, at this point, so that you're not, you know, waiting on family to take care of you at that point. What a gift that they've been able to step in. But after a year of this, we've got to be finding something to do and then slowly working your way into an actual career for the second half of your life. That's the key to all of this. And if you want to connect with our friends at Guardian litigation, this is the kind of stuff they specialize in.

Don't go to these, you know, debt settlement places. This is a nationwide law firm that helps with these collection issues, and they can fight for you on their behalf with a real attorney. So reach out to them. You can go to guardianlit.com slash Ramsey to get in touch with them, and I tell them George sent you. All right, let's go out to Kira in Denver, Colorado. Did I say that right, Kira?

You sure did. Hey. How you doing? I'm good. How are you guys? Doing great. We're doing great. How can we help today?

Good. so glad to talk to you. You guys are going to hate this question so much, but I genuinely, I feel like I genuinely want your perspective. So I have been leasing a vehicle since, well, about three years now. The lease term is almost to an end. It's a 2024 Subaru and Preza, and the payment is pretty low. It's like $300 a month. So as this lease term is coming to an end, I'm honestly having a hard time understanding, and I have been listening to your show for a long time, so I know the debt, it's always worth paying off debt, but I'm having a hard time understanding why leasing another vehicle would be a bad idea.

This is George's favorite question. I just love a good car lease question. This is for you. Please help me. Okay, I want you to explain to me what you love about it, because here's what's happening right now. You told me it's a low payment. Do you know why it's a low payment?

comparatively to a car loan? I guess I don't, but... It's because you don't have any collateral. You own nothing. You are just renting a car from them very expensively, and you are prepaying the biggest piece of the depreciation on behalf of the dealership. Right.

That makes total sense. Here's where I'm a little bit hung up. First, for the term of the lease, I don't pay for oil changes, I don't pay for car maintenance, I don't pay for new tires, I don't pay for any of that stuff. And I do have some money in savings.

So in theory, I could just go buy a vehicle in cash. But I just have worked so hard for that savings account, and it would completely drain it. So here I am saving $300 a month, which seems fine, but that doesn't seem like enough savings a month to rebuild the savings account that I'm about to wipe out. How much do you have in savings? Right now it's about $14,000. By the time the lease term is up, I'm guessing it would probably be about 18,000. Do you have any other consumer debts? I don't.

Well, I have a student loan, and there's like $7,000 left on it. So again, it's like that payment's so low. Is it worth wiping out of $7,000? Well, at this point, you should go around collecting low payment debts. It sounds like that's the plan. If I can get the payment low enough, it's a good deal. And that's my fear, Kara. It's so hard to wipe out my savings account because it's like I'm...

But that's what I want you to feel is the pain at purchase of, wow, this is a lot of money I'm letting go of. And you have worked hard to build up your savings. And I think you work too hard to give these dealerships and lenders your money for the rest of your life on these contracts that are built to screw you over. And it's kind of a misnomer to think that you do have, you know, $14,000 because technically you don't. You owe $7,000. So really, the feeling that you have, you know, an upside over here. is kind of false because there is money owed over here. So really your net worth is not what it feels like

when you're looking at your savings. It's kind of this like, it's like a fogged mirror where it feels one way, but the reality, when you look at the numbers, you're carrying all that risk, you know, the risk of the student loan, the 7,000, you have debt over on the other side. And so you really don't have, you really don't have 14,000.

and you really technically have $7,000 to your name. Right. Yeah, I guess that makes sense. I have a salaried full-time job, and I did pick up a little side hustle. I wait tables on Saturday nights. It's really fun. I enjoy it.

It helps me build up that savings account a little bit more. Yeah, good for you. Yeah, the point of that was really so that my family and I could travel a little bit more because I feel like, you know, we're in a position. We're not in debt. We pay the bills. We're living comfortably, but that felt like it was missing. We just didn't have enough money to really.

travel the way I wanted to. So I got this waitressing job. But now it's like, do I pay off? Do we just buy a car in cash and have no travel savings? Have you ever done that? To kind of build back up? No. Can you try it?

Would you be willing to, as an experiment to the audience listening? Would you be willing to try out buying a car in cash and paying for your own oil change? I promise you you can afford it. If you promise me, it's worth it. If you promise you what? You promise me it's worth it. Well, listen, I can't control what car you buy. Here's what I do.

I get a pre-purchase inspection, and I get a vehicle history report from a company like bumper so that you know you're not buying a lemon. So that's going to give you a lot of peace of mind. And then all you do, that $300 that you're budgeting for a lease payment, you can now budget for car maintenance and repair. And look at that. You've created your own little bank account over here where you're not robbing savings when it comes time for oil or new tires.

And now you actually own the thing. And there's no buyout. There's no wear and tear fees. There's no disposition fee. There's no extra mileage fee you have to worry about. You can drive the thing like it's yours because it is. And then you just build up that savings account for travel. You just build it back up over time. Exactly. Just separate everything. Earmark. My emergency funds over here, travels over here, car maintenance and repair over here. Instead of saying, well, this is just one giant pile of savings and I'm robbing it to do this thing over here. That's where you're getting tricked up. Okay. And can I tell you this? The interest rate on these things, because they don't have to be disclosed, is enormous.

They run around 14% when you actually do the math. But they don't have to tell you that because it's a lease contract and not a loan. And that's really how they get you because the payment feels so low. So here's my last thing, Kira. Why do you think the dealerships want to push you into a lease so badly? Do you think it's because it benefits you the most? Because they make so much money. Who are they making the money from?

Me. Now, how are you both winning in this scenario? How are they making a bunch of money and you're also winning? I'm just so sad to see that vacation savings fund go away. Me too. But I'll do it. I'll do it. I'm also sad for you, but the good news is you're about to pay off those student loans today because you told me we're debt-free.

Well, let's make you actually debt-free by paying off those student loans with the money you have in savings. We'll rebuild for travel over time. And I promise you your family's going to be okay. How old are you? Okay. I am 39. You're 39. So great.

Well, yeah, let's just say for the rest of your life, you just leased for the fun of it, okay, for the next like 40 years. And instead of that versus if you had just invested that, even $300, which I know you said doesn't feel like a lot. But when you actually let your money work for you versus working for the car dealer, you would have $2.5 million sitting in that account. Okay. Versus what, 10 leased cars through your lifetime. So it's a mindset of saying I'm going to use my income to help me and my family versus helping everybody else, right? These banks and car dealers and all of it. So it's just it's a different mindset.

But the thing is, your mindset is so normal. That's literally how people live. They live with, oh, well, it's just a thousand buck credit card bill every month. It's just a $300 lease. It's just a little bit of a student loan. We got a personal loan because over here and it's not that much. And you just kind of live your life, little pain. by little payment, but over the scope of your life, if you don't change your habits, that's what

it's costing you to live that way. And so one small change literally makes you a multimillionaire. That's it. Yeah. So start asking this question. That's so helpful. Thank you guys. Ask this question. Instead of how much down, how much a month, which is broke people talk, just ask how much, total cost. And if you can't afford it in full and you're willing to part with that money, that's your body telling you this is a bad decision. Yep. We were meeting people at the break. And a sweet lady said that her parents grew up in the Great Depression and she said, we were told from the very beginning, if you don't have the money, you don't buy it. And it was just simple. And I was like, I know. We've made careers now with that one simple phrase, you know. I'll leave you with the

Arabic version. Mama Camel says this. What she say? El Jemel bit ish, umma'am-and-the-ish. It means the camel costs one penny and I don't have a penny. It's just one penny. It's just one penny. I don't have it. If you don't have the money, you just don't buy it. She doesn't say that. Camel Camel Camel? It's an Arabic saying. Okay. I can't make this up. That's too wild. I need to weave that into every single show from now on that you're on.

I think we need a little airbic phrase of the day. Oh, we love. I'm going to say this wrong. Someone out there's going to be like, he didn't say it right. Is jemmelb-ish, umma'n-di-ish. That's as good as it gets, folks. We love when George talks another language. You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car,

but it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage. To protect your biggest assets, I recommend using Rams. trusted pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsey trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at ramsysolutions dot com slash insurance. Listen guys, I've heard just about every excuse for why folks think they can't get ahead with money. So let's go ahead and settle this right now. You get the final say on what happens with your money. That's why you have to start telling your money where to go so you can stop wondering where it went. So if you're

going to start winning with money, you have to get on a budget. And the easiest way to get started and stick to it is with the every dollar budget app. It'll help you make a plan for every single dollar coming in and every single dollar going out every single month. And guess what? It's free. So no excuses. Download every dollar in the app store or Google Play today. You know, Rachel, as we get callers that hit baby step seven or even baby step four, five, six, one of the things that's the hardest is to let your foot off the gas and remember what it was like to enjoy life and go on vacation. And it's one of the reasons we came up with this crazy idea of the Ramsey cruise, the live like no one else cruise. Because there's two ends of the spectrum. You guys, you live like no one else.

So later you can live and give like no one else. And part of living like no one else is having a paid for vacation, right, that you pay for. yourself because you're debt-free, you have your emergency funds, you're in a place to go and enjoy life again responsibly, if you will. And why not be irresponsible on a cruise with us? It's the most fun because what I love about a cruise, and this was my first real cruise, the last Ramsey cruise we did, is that you just walk around and everything is there. Everything's covered. You're like, oh, the food's there, the entertainment is there. I already paid the taxes, the tips. You can just enjoy yourself. And the ship is so nice. It was a real, I probably spoiled myself by making

this my first cruise. The spa was fantastic. The restaurants are amazing. The cool bar setups and the coffee shops, like all of it. It is spectacular, you guys. It is such a fun vacation. And it's a fun week and we want you to come spend it with us. That's right. March 14 through the 21st, 2027, Dave Ramsey, all of us personalities and about 2,500 of your closest, newest Ramsey friends will be there all on the ship. All Inclusive pricing starts at about $2,100 bucks per passenger. That includes it all. Cabin food, entertainment, taxes, tips. Click the link in the show notes or go to Ramsey Solutions.com slash events to book your cabin and join us. Carrie is in Washington, D.C. up next. Carrie, welcome to the show.

Hi, good afternoon. It's so nice to speak with you. You as well. What's going on? Thank you. Yes, so my father-in-law is 72 years old, and he lives, he owns his home in Florida, and he is relocating to Virginia near my husband and I. And he is buying a house about 15 minutes away from us with cash, and he wants to add my husband to the deed of the new home. We know that this is not a good idea, but we need help explaining to him why it is not a good idea. Oh, boy. What's his reason? Yeah, what does he want to do it? I think he believes that it's going to be easier when he passes away if my husband's already partial owner of the house. Why are you not involved? Because it's not my father. Ah, so he's like, well, give it to my son. Okay, well,

here's the main issue that hopefully now i don't know if he's a man of logic but part of this is a huge tax liability when you put your kid or whoever on the deed of your property while you're alive that is considered a gift by the irs so the tax basis so let's say he i don't know how much he's going to buy this house for the new one or the new one um we'll say like 350 okay so he buys it at 350 and then he let's say he passes away i don't know 20 years from now and the house is worth seven hundred thousand dollars well your husband is going to owe the taxes on that house because it was a gift and so when he sells that property there's going to be a huge tax liability versus dad just letting his son inherit the house because now there's a stepped-up tax basis so whatever

the market value of that house is when your father-in-law passes now becomes the value that you're husband is going to pay taxes on. So if he inherits it and it's worth 700 grand, he could sell it six months later with no tax liability. Okay. So that's the problem is he's entangling their financial lives together at the wrong time. Yeah. And he can put it, you know, in the will, even do a trust and, you know, get through probate, you know, without it. I mean, like, there's some ways to get around it for it to pass, quote, unquote, easily to your husband without having to do that. And without having to pay taxes on $350,000. Okay.

So just adding it into his will, would that be the easiest way? That's the simplest. Yeah, that would be the simplest. It'll go through probate and all of that, so there will be a little bit of costs, but nothing like $350,000 of taxes on that. You can also look into something called transfer on death, TOD. This varies by state, but you can sometimes add a TOD, so that way it transfers outside of probate.

Okay. Is that something he would be able to do when he is purchasing this new home, or is that something he would do afterwards? He could do it after he purchased it. You can add that. So I would talk to a good state planning attorney to figure out the state laws and Virginia and what all that entails. But the one thing he doesn't want to do is add him to the deed while he's alive. That is definitely the worst case scenario. Okay. Okay, perfect. Good luck. Great question, Kerry. Thanks for calling in. Thank you. Absolutely. And even a good estate planning attorney, just getting on a call with him and dad walking them through all this with a third party expert versus his daughter-in-law, that might help too. Yeah, for sure. And, you know, a lot of these attorneys are pretty great.

You know, something like this is pretty simple. They do this stuff all the time and they can get the documents ready for you. You can do doc your sign and it's done. Like it doesn't have to. It's not a big complicated process for them. You can knock it out on a Thursday afternoon. All right. Linda is in Milwaukee up next.

Linda, welcome to the show. Hi, thank you. Excited to be on the call. Absolutely. How can we help? Well, I am 52. I'm single, empty nestor. My son went to the Air Force a couple years ago.

And I don't have any major debt as far as credit cards due to loan, car debt, nothing like that. I own my primary home, and I own a duplex. Both have equity. and but I'm not sure if I should sell the duplex because I have a helic loan. The duplex is paying for the helic loan. So I'm not like receiving any money from the duplex. It's just a wash. There's cash flow.

Yeah. I mean, there's a good cash flow, but everything washes because, and the helac is at like $55,000. So I feel like if I got rid of the duplex, I would get rid of the anxiety of owning all that debt. But I'm 52. I only have like 250 in my 401k and I don't have any savings really. So I'm nervous because I'm 52. So I don't, I'm in this like pickle. Do I invest the next several years and pay off the HELOC or do I sell it all?

And my primary home I only owe like $130,000 left. it's worth like 350. My duplex, I owe like 175 and it's worth like 300. Plus you have the 55K helok? Yeah, I got the helac, which is killing me. But that's the only debt I have, just real estate debt. Okay. So you could really walk away from that duplex,

probably with like 60 grand after it's all said and done. Depending on capital games, what I'm going to owe for that. Would you pay for it? Because it's only worth $300, you said? Yeah, I mean, I originally paid $130. Yes, you shouldn't have capital gains. Well, what?

Because you'll be exempt for $250,000 in capital gains. For investment properties? Oh, for the investment property. Yeah, she'll pay for it. Yeah. Yeah. So after taxes, net fees from a realtor, what do you think you walk away with after paying off the mortgage plus the HELOC? Everything with the investment property selling that, I'll walk away after capital gains, but I assume maybe, paying off the HELOC, maybe 20 grand, 26 grand. Okay. How much do you have in savings now?

Nothing, really. So you just will become debt-free except your primary mortgage and have 26 grand in the bank. Yeah. That sounds pretty good to me. You think so? And you got 300 in retirement, though, you said, right? 250. 250 in retirement. And you'll continue to invest. I mean, you're 52, not 72.

So I want to tell you, you have time. No, I know. Because that investment, if you didn't even touch it, it could double in the next seven years. So at 59, it's 500. At 66, it could be a million. And you're going to add to it. So the question really is, though, do I sell that duplex? Even if it's got a great cash flow coming in.

You know, it's like bringing in $1,000 a month cash flow. Well, the problem is you don't have enough margin to knock out the HELOC and have this thing really cash flow for you. Right now, it's a wash, which means you're probably closer to losing money than making it because of all the other expenses. Potentially. But I get the tax cut, you know, each year, too. So I'm worried about that. Well, I'd rather set you up for retirement in a way that. that you are walking into that thing debt-free versus trying to tax-cut your way and write off your way into it while carrying this debt.

Because I don't see a way you're going to pay off all of this debt by the time you're 60 with the current cash flow you have. What's your current income? About 100. Okay, good. So think about if you were making 100K with no debt but your mortgage, how much could you then invest? Can you repeat that? How much could you invest out of your $100,000 income if you didn't have this duplex, mortgage and the he lock. Well, that depends on my spend. You know, I'm 52 trying to be 32,

so there's a lot of investment there. But I joke with that. But I could probably, I don't know, $1,000. A month? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That gets you close to 15%. Yeah. 15%. 15% would be 15 grand. So I was thinking if you did, if you could walk away and put that money from the due, duplex. And I think you may be walking away more than 26. I could be wrong. But let's just say at the end of all of it, after you throw some more money in these investments, let's say all set and done by the time you sell it, you have now $300,000 in your retirement, okay? Just in investments. And then if you go for the next 10 years and put in $1,500 a month, you'll have $1.2 million in 10 years. $1,500 a month, invested, yeah, which is probably what I would do just to catch up, because you don't

have it. I mean, 300,000 is amazing. Like, you did a great job, but I think your money could be working harder somewhere else than trying to get like a tax break here, He-Lock payment, you know what I mean, and you're having to keep tenants in it and all of that. And you even said the stress of holding that debt, which is more on your investment property than your primary home because you owe $175,000 on it. So like, just being, just kind of simplifying your life, Linda, from this point on and for the next 10 years, just be throwing stuff in investments. And I think you're going to end up being great at 1.2 million in 10 years. Well, that's great because I try to work these numbers.

That's why I call them. I cannot grasp it. Yeah, so if you just go into our investment calculator at Ramsey Solutions.com, I just typed in current investments. I put 300,000. I was probably being a little generous there. But it's your 250 saved, some money from this duplex. And then monthly contribution, $1,500 a month for 10 years.

return. I put 11 in, which could be aggressive depending on the market. It's been pretty great the last couple of years, so we'll see what it does. But yeah, it'll be well over a million. Okay. Okay. And that's if you just retire a 62. You might decide, all right, I'm going to go to 65 and build a little bit more of a nest egg. And the longer you work, the more time you give it, the more you'll end up having in retirement. And you'll get a better picture for what your income stream looks like there between Social Security and your nest egg. But way to go. I would clear the decks and just simplify my life at this point and get rid of that. All right, let's go out to Mike in Baltimore up next. What's going on, Mike? Basically, I am looking into buying a house,

28, and I have a good amount saved up. And I went house touring recently, and I ran into a house my realtor called a piggyback house where basically there's multiple, instead of it just being houses right next to each other, it's like in front and behind. I didn't see that many, people talk about it online. So I've, I've got my long time listening. I just wanted to call in and get your opinions on that. They're a decent choice for me to choose my first home. It's like three floors. It's like an Annapolis, Maryland. And yeah, that's my question for the most part. And there's a lot of HLA fees as well. It went up from $80 to, I think the original seller got, it was $80 originally for HLA. And now it's $3.15, which is something that worried, that I'm sort of worried about.

I'm trying to stay away from condominions because I heard the HOAs are a big worry. So I'm trying to... Well, the same thing would apply for townhomes with a higher HOA fee because more is being covered for that townhome than a single family home. So you're going to find higher HOA fees across the board for any condos or townhomes. But the bigger question is, why this specific piggyback townhouse idea? Is that because you can get a tenant in the other side? No, I just want to...

the one individual unit because I just wanted to get my own up my own spot. So it's just the way that development is. It's the way the development is set up. Exactly. And I'm like, this is sort of interesting to me. And it also is like in the back instead of the front. So I'm like, ah, this is sort of new to me. Well, how much is it?

The house is 329, but one recently sold for 315. So I'd like to see if I could like, you know, say the recent prices sold sooner. or for less than that. And how much do you have saved? I have $87K saved right now. I have $87K saved right now. Awesome. And you have no debt?

No debt. And that's aside from your emergency fund. The $87K is just down payment fund? Oh, no, 87 is all in. I also have a gift from my parents because I've been investing or I've been giving money to them on a monthly basis. And once I choose to invest in a home, they plan to get me the gifts back.

But you also don't want me to rely on that. But that would be approximately like $40K or so. That's great. Yeah, because I... Yeah, it just kind of sounds like... I mean, I'm not familiar with piggyback townhouses. I've never heard of this. But I guess it's just kind of a quirky development.

So I think as long as it's not so odd that you could resell it in the future, you know what I mean? I wouldn't buy something that's so weird that no one would ever want it. Yeah, I would look at the appreciation over the last. decade compared to other areas, and that'll give you a pretty good idea if this is going to be a worthy long-term purchase. But it's about half of the median price there in Annapolis, Maryland, because we're seeing median listing price is $635,000, according to our... Yeah, so what you got was half of, which granted, it's a smaller home, I know, kind of more like a townhome feel. My first two homes were townhomes, Mike, so I'm not anti-town home by any means. No. I think it can be great, but you want to

make sure you're making a purchase in a neighborhood that's going to appreciate. Things like good school zones, all of that will affect your resale value if you're looking at this like a long-term play. So how much do you make every month? What's your after-tax monthly income? After-tax, it's approximately 4.2K. I have a lot of deductions and my pension and my 401k. If we remove those out, just after just your federal state taxes, all of that, without any investing, health care premiums, what would it amount to every month? Honestly, I don't really know. Per month, but my salary is like a little bit over 91K.

I don't know how much it is monthly without it. Because our parameter is about quarter of your take-home pay going towards that mortgage. That includes principal, interest, taxes, homeowners insurance, HOA. And right now, on a 15-year-year fixed, it's looking like your payment would be, if you put 100K down on a house is $315,000, your payment would be a little over $2,500. Yeah, yeah. Does that sound about right? Yeah, yeah, it is.

I have, I have talked to some lenders, too. It's approximately 20. I think it is, I think you're right. I think it might be 24. I'm also trying to align it with some grants too, which is why I'm not like rushing, but I'm trying to talk to the lenders and see what I can do for first time of home owning and stuff.

I would, okay, just make sure you're, I would stick to a conventional loan here. A lot of these FHA loans and first-time homeowners, they have a lot of restrictions and red tape, and it sounds great on paper until you get into it. And on top of that, other fees. So I would tread lightly. I mean, I think you're close. You got a great solid start, 87K save plus your parents 40.

If you can put 100K down and make the payment work, right now it sounds like you could bring home about five grand a month. So that's my fear. If this is $2,500 out of $5,000 a month, that's a problem. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, I'm planning on also renting up as to my friends, too, like, on some rooms if that was one or two. This is a three-floor and a three-floor at a townhouse. The only thing would just, how it looked is not like how regular townhouse. That's the reason why I called in.

I'm like, I don't really see much information about this around. So, like, let me see. You got the tenure about it. That's my fear is that if it's so odd that not a lot of people would be wanting that kind of house, that just could hurt you in the future. Yeah, that would be my only thing. If the development is kind of quirky and weird and it would be hard to sell, that would be my only caution. And again, making sure that that payment is still not half of your take-home pay because we don't want that either. So unless your income is going to go up, I wouldn't make this purchase just for that reason alone. Yeah, and I wouldn't either depend on other people helping pay the mortgage either. I would have that be a bonus, right, that it's still, you know, around a four. worth of your take-home pay. And then if you do have some roommates... Without any extra income. That's right. But if you do have some extra money coming in from roommates, that's just

kind of the cherry on top. Great question. You've heard from me and the Ramsey personalities for years, but nothing beats actually getting together in person. That's why we created the Live Like No One Else Cruise. For seven days, we're vacationing with you and 2,500 Ramsey people in the Western Caribbean with live shows, us, new content, us, and more. If you're on Baby Step 4 or beyond, come spend the week with us next March. Choose your cabinet, Ramsey Solutions.com slash events or click the link in the show notes. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show and the Fairwind's Credit Union Studio. Let's go to Alex in Miami up next.

Alex, what's going on? Thank you for taking my call, guys. I got to give you guys a little background about myself. 16 years ago, I became a convicted felon, and that kind of cost me like $40,000 in restitution. Since then, I've been able to pay it all back. But also between that time, I've been trying to speak to my siblings and my mother about group economics in order for us to prepare for her retirement. Around, I would say around 2014 to 2020, I think the mortgage rates were kind of favorable. Her interest rate was around 7.8. And I think we could have to be. I would be

got around like four points something. I'm not 100% sure, but I think we missed out on $60,000. That could have went directly towards my mother's retirement or towards the house principal. And lately I've been speaking to my mother about preparing because she's now 65 and she's ignoring me. When I speak to my siblings as well, they are also ignoring me. And I think I've accomplished enough in my life where I feel like, you know, what my opinion should matter. And at this point, I kind of want to just give up and just like live my life on my own and just put everyone to the side because no one's planning at all. Man.

And planning for your mom specifically is what you're talking about, correct? Exactly. Yep. Oh, man, Alex, welcome to family, you know. Just don't listen when you want them to. That dysfunction doesn't discriminate. I know. I don't know your relationship with them prior to this, but it sounds like it was already kind of estranged.

with my sister definitely my older brother he just passed he had cancer last year and like the way like the family as a whole has been progressing honestly I don't know what to do

besides of just being an independent individual and just moving on and whatever happens with my mother when she made because she obviously doesn't want to plan that's on her and however However, everyone feels about it, that will be on them as well. I mean, I hate to be that bleak, Alex, but that's what ends up happening.

And we talk to a lot of people that are in a position of yours saying, hey, I'm trying to, like, wave the flag here and say, guys, we got to make some plans because, you know, she's not getting any younger. We want to make sure she's taken care of. And the hard thing is, Alex, you cannot force anyone to do anything. And so your attempt, your attempt was so good. And then at the end of the day, you kind of do have to come to peace in terms with, you can't force people to do something. And I think that's, I mean, I lived so much of my life really believing if I could just say it this way or phrase it this way or get certain people in the room, then the light bulb will come on, you know, of what you're looking at and seeing.

And you want everyone else to see it. And when they don't, it's like you're just hitting your head against a wall over. and over and over again. And so I think there's a level of coming to terms with you can't control people. You can only control you. And your humility in it to say, hey, mom, because the siblings probably are not going to, you know, budge much. But I probably would let her know one more time. Hey, mom, I love you. And I want to make sure that you are taking care of and everything that you're wanting in this life. And this is morbid, but it's true. And when you pass away, that your wishes are shown through of what you want,

what you're going to leave to be distributed the way you want. And I want to make sure there's a will in place, right? Like, I want to see these things for you, Mom. And I'm happy to sit down with you today to do that. Or if there's a time in the- My major issue is here is that because I became a convicted felon and I had problems in my past, no one trusts anything that I say.

Okay, so there's that. And that's at the root of your frustration. this resentment. You're going, hey, I changed. I'm doing well with money now and no one wants to listen to me. But the picture they have in their head is, well, how would I listen to this guy's genius financial advice? And so that's the hardest part about you creating this new chapter for yourself is realizing these people may not ever understand. They may not ever ask you for advice, and you need to be okay with that and not give. I don't even personally give unsolicited financial advice, Alex, to my own family. I've played this game and it doesn't work out. I just get angry.

mother cannot read or write. Like, it's very dysfunctional. Like, my mother doesn't have, like, a elementary education. So, like, for her to go on Florida and life, without, like, she would ask me to read letters for her, like,

what if I'm out of the picture? Who's here with you? I'm trying to figure all of this out, and I'm trying, like, scream, and it's nuts to me at the top of my lungs, but trying to explain it logically, and everyone seems to want to wash their hands. And since the path of my brother, my elder's brother, everything seems to have gone worse.

Me and my sister doesn't, don't even speak anymore. And I'm upset because she decided planning with her husband when she's known for a year and not her own siblings. And I'm really like, okay, I should just vanish at this point. Alex, you're hanging on to a lot of anger, man. And I understand, and a lot of it is reasonable. You feel like, man, I've changed my life. I want to help my family. I'm trying to do a good thing and it's all backfiring and no one cares. And I want you to release that, which is a really hard thing to do. That's going to take some time,

probably some counseling. But there's a lot that you want to get out there that is just stuck and there's nowhere to put it. And so what you need to do is live your life and create this new chapter, maybe new friend group and kind of create your own family at this point because clearly they have opted out of this relationship. You've done everything you can and you've realized the hardest. way that you can't change people, you can't make them take the advice. So the best thing you can do is just use your energy where it's actually going to be fruitful, which is your own life and people that you can help. And finding your worth and your value, Alex, sadly, will not be coming from your family because they're not valuing you, which is really hurtful when it comes from your own family. And so, yeah, there'll probably be some grief to walk through of what you

thought this was going to be with them in this second chapter of your life as a changed man. But I think the work is having to release that what George is saying, which is so sad. It is so sad. And you know what's coming too. That's the hard part. And you're worth it, though, just for you. That when you said, I feel like I should just vanish. No, I don't think you need to vanish.

Maybe from a family standpoint, yeah, your input may not be needed anymore because they're not going to listen. but finding who you're created to be Alex in this next chapter of your life and the good that you can do on this earth, that's what I would chase and that you are always there for them and there may be a day that they circle back, but you cannot force them to do something that they're not willing to do or have a conversation they're not willing to have. Well, we wish we could get to every call and question here on the show. So if you have a money question, you want an answer for your situation. Head over to our website and use Ask Ramsey.

It's our free AI tool that is built and trained on proven Ramsey principles. You'll get an answer the same way we'd answer it right here on the show. You can go back and forth, have a conversation. Save the questions. It's really incredible. So ask your question today, Ramsey Solutions.com or click the link in the description if you're on podcast or YouTube. Jeff is in Orlando up next. Jeff, welcome to the show.

Well, thank you. I was telling basically to see, I'm trying to decide I've never invested before. I don't even know nothing about investing. So I don't know if investing would be the best or to continue to keep throwing extra money towards my mortgage on a house. I just bought it a year ago and then I just refinanced it a couple months ago. Okay, great. Do you have any consumer debt, Jeff? No, I have no debt credit cards, car are all paid off. Wonderful.

Do you have money saved just in an emergency fund? I was about three, three and a half months worth. Oh, good. Okay. Amazing. And how much do you make a year? I am on a disability pension that doesn't get any raises, so this is why I'm so concerned about my future, and I'm also on Social Security disability because of an accident I had.

Okay, so how much money do you have coming in a month? We met between me and my wife about $7,200 to $7,500, depending on her bonus for the month. Okay, that's great. And you guys have nothing saved in retirement at this point? How old are you guys? No. I'm 48 and my wife is about to be 46. Okay.

Well, what we teach is investing 15% of your income into retirement and then anything above that then be throwing at the house. Do you guys have kids? They're grown. Okay. My daughter's in college and my son's 26. Okay, great. So, yeah, so I mean, I would be throwing, yep, some of this money.

maybe like $900 a month into an investment account. And so you guys could open up a Roth IRA is a great place to start for both of you. We did just do that. I'm sorry. Oh, good. Okay. So you can fund $7,500 each into that account, which is great. So $15,000 could be going into that account.

And so that'll take up most of that monthly. investment that you'll be making into it. And then if you guys have anything extra, since you're not, is your wife working? Yeah, she works, and that's why I forgot about the Roth. She just, they just offered her, they'll match up to 50%, up to 5% with an IRA Roth.

So she matched that out. Is that like a 401K? Because an IRA would be outside of an employer. I guess it's a 401K. I mean, it says IRA Roth through the job. And then, like I said, they match 50%. up to 5%, which was also confusing to me.

I didn't quite understand that wording, but I was like, well, just max out the 5%. Yeah, because if you get that 5%, basically they're saying, hey, we'll give you another 2.5%. Yeah. So that's a great start because that's free money pretty instantly. And if you guys do that, we can crunch the numbers for using our calculator. If you, let's say you maxed out those two Roth IRAs per year.

Just an example, that's 15 grand a year. That's 12, 50 a month. You said you're 48 and 46. So can we take it to 66? Is that fair? Yeah. If you do that for 20 years, even starting from nothing, we'll show you how much this could turn into. And if you're watching on Spotify or YouTube, we'll throw this up on the screen. Yeah, if you have nothing currently invested, but per month that it's about, yeah, $1,250 going into all these accounts for 20 years, it'll be about a million dollars, Jeff.

Good Lord, but I mean, it seems like, I mean, $1,200 seems like an awful lot, though. Like, how do you afford to live? That's the problem. Well, you have $7,500 coming in. So the goal now is how do we live on what's left after investing? Because $7,500 is your take-home pay? Is that right? Yeah, roughly.

Usually it's about $72. It depends on my wife's bonus from work. Sometimes it's about $75, but usually $5. Okay. So even if that came out of your net income right there. $6,300. still leave you with about 5,700 to live, and that would cover all of your bills. What's your mortgage?

Is 1681 a month? Okay. Before taxes and insurance, with taxes insurance, I'm about $2,000. Tax insurance had another $420, so about $2,100. Okay. That's fairly reasonable. It's a little less than a third of your take-home pay right there. So you should still have margin left over.

And this is where you and your wife just need to sit down and make a budget each month and go, hey, our priorities are let's cover all the bills, the four walls, food, shelter, utilities, transportation. Investing has to be a priority because we need to make up for lost time. And so you're wondering, man, that sounds like a lot of money. It is. But once you get the muscle memory of that's just money's gone, we're going to learn, we're going to pretend like we live off $5,700 a month. Your life will change because 20 years from now you're going to look up and have a million bucks instead of nothing. All right. That's very much.

This has given me some more to think about and for that. Now it would be like for investing wise as my cousin told me, you know, since I don't know much about it, just do like a simple S&P, like through Vanguard or something like that. That's not a bad plan. I mean, we recommend four types of mutual funds. And when you look at an S&P 500, it essentially is a mutual fund. It's, you know, many, many companies, 500 of the top American companies and it's weighted. So the larger companies have more of a weight than the smaller ones.

But what you'll find is that the average rate on all of those is going to be 10 to 12%. And so the S&P 500 is a great starting point. We recommend having even more diversification because those are large cap companies. So think the biggest companies, over $10 billion. Well, then you also want some of the mid-cap companies and the small-cap companies because they can also see some great growth over time. And then international is the last one that we want to diversify across so that if the U.S. market takes a dip, the international one can help bolster it.

So those are the four types And I'm going to send you our investing guide You can go to ramsysolutions.com slash guide I believe that's the link I'm going to double check it for you But there's a free investing guide If you read through that It's going to be like a little master class

On investing Even if you've never invested a dime It's going to help you Well thank you very much I appreciate it Absolutely And for Jeff and anyone listening When you get to this point of investing

You can even sit down with a smart vester pro. If you go to ramsysolutions.com, you can find a few in your area and talk to them and make a plan because they're going to be able to really map out the next 20, 30, 40 years spending how old you are of what you need to do

and they really follow our principles and our steps because all of what you're just saying, George is so important. The diversification of it all. And, you know, when you start a little later, which is not bad because he's starting, You want to be that much more intentional to make sure you have enough for retirement. Yeah. There's less margin for error at that point. You have to make sure that money has to go

to investing and has to go to the right places to help it grow over time because compound growth is doing the heavy lifting on that million bucks. You didn't actually invest a million. No, he would have put in 300,000 and the growth is 782,000. So that's wild. Double the growth. Yep. It's all in the growth. So the sooner you start the better. made some money, that new pile of money, made some money, and so over time, that really balloons into something incredible. All right, Rachel, that was fun. We had a good time. Our scripture of the day, Luke 12, 15, and he went on to say to them all, watch out and guard yourselves from every kind of greed, because your true life is not made up of

the things you own, no matter how rich you may be. Albert Einstein said, not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. Simmer on that one for a little bit. You'll get it. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.