The Ramsey Show - Don’t Look for a Hack When You Need a Grind

Episode Date: November 19, 2024

📈 Are you on track with the Baby Steps? Get a Free Personalized Plan 📱Watch the full episode for free in the Ramsey Network app. Dave Ramsey & Rachel Cruze answer your questions and discuss: "My parents are worried about losing their home," "Should I go back to grad school after getting laid off?" "When should I consider refinancing my home?" "How do I sell the gold I dredge?" Dave Rant on stupid tax advice. Support Our Sponsors: 🌱 Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp 🏥 Learn more about Christian Healthcare Ministries 🏡 Get started today with Churchill Mortgage 🔒 Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe 🏦 Go to FAIRWINDS Credit Union for an exclusive account bundle! 🥗 Save 15% on your first Field of Greens order with code RAMSEY 💤 Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! 💻 Visit NetSuite today to learn more 🗂️ Use promo code RAMSEY for18% off at The Nokbox 🏛 Get started with YRefy or call 844-2-RAMSEY 🔐 Visit Zander Insurance for your free instant quote today! Next Steps 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET or click here! 💵 Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app! 🎄 You could win $5,000 in the Ramsey Christmas Cash Giveaway! Enter today. 🩺 Find the Right Health Coverage During Open Enrollment 🛳️ Live Like No One Else Cruise 🛒 Shop the online store at Ramsey Solutions Listen to more from Ramsey Network 🎙️ The Ramsey Show   🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 💰 George Kamel 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 EntreLeadership Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Rachel Cruz, number one bestselling author many times over, Ramsey personality and host of the Rachel Cruz Show. My daughter is my co-host today. Open phones here at 888-825-5225. You call with your questions about your life, that's what we're here for. The call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. So we're glad you're here. Rachel, big day today!

Another book launch, the third Rachel Cruz kids book is out. Yes, it is! I know, I'm so excited. So I'm glad when I can share, so this is the kids book, Kids Book is out.. And they've all been bestsellers. I'm glad for what I have. I'm glad for where I am. That's Contentment. I'm glad for where I am is Gratitude. Gratitude. And the first one's Contentment and then this one is Generosity. I'm glad for when I can share. And it's a three book series and this is the third So it's 1999 at Ramsey solutions calm in the bookstore. And again Lauren just continued to these world-class

Illustrations make the book. Yes, Lauren. Gallegos is the illustrator for all of them and she just I mean did a fabulous job So yeah, it's a it's a really sweet book and it's short. You're welcome, parents. It is quick. Yeah, for those of you that do bedtime stories, they're nine years long. Yes, this is a short one. You don't have that here. And on each of these books, I always try to add an element for the adults at the end.

So just a sweet reminder, right? When it comes to contentment, there's that. And then this one for gratitude, that joy in life really is the gifts that God has given us from our brothers and their sisters and, you know, all of that to understanding that when we give, it is a joy unlike anything else that money can buy. It's the most fun you'll ever have with money. We had Jimmy Darts on yesterday, who's got the big YouTube channel. Oh yes. Giving money away, and we were talking about

the power of generosity. And we teach you guys, as you know, to live like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else. And Lauren even snuck that onto the license plate of one of the cars in there. So you'll have to look for the hidden meanings. There's some little Easter eggs in there.

There's a few little Waldo's in the book. Call me Taylor Swift but I have my own easter eggs. Where's Waldo? Yeah so there it is live like no one else on the license plate probably need to get one of those for one of our cars for real that'd be pretty cool I never thought of that because but nobody knows what it means unless they know what it means. Well it's just letters on that one. Yeah, it's nuts. But yeah, anyway, good stuff. So I'm glad when I can share it's here, it's on sale. Oh, just in time for Christmas. And it's 1999 at Ramsey solutions.com in the store. And of course, um, you can order it anywhere. You can order great books as well.

The other two books in the series are only 1799. So you can pick up all three of them for what 50 bucks roughly and a little over $50 and you'd have a wonderful little set for the grandbabies or for the babies whatever it is. Good stuff and speaking as the grandfather who has a few grandchildren that might be accused of picking out the longest possible book. Some of those Dr. Seuss books go on for days and they have a way of finding, this is the one I want to read Papa Dave. Translation, I want to stall bedtime as far

as I can and so doesn't work with any of the three of these. These three all get to the point and you go to bed. Yeah, they're pretty fast and they rhyme. They're very sweet, great message. But yeah, we get to the point. So you're welcome parents for that. Good stuff. Lorena is with us in Dallas, Texas. Hi Lorena, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hey guys, how are y'all? Better than we deserve. What's up in your world? Good, good. I just have a couple of questions. So I'll start off with that. I feel like I cannot move out of my parents' house due to financial struggles that they are having

and I'm also having as well. Okay, so what causes you not to be able to move out because of their financial struggles? Walk me through that. They need your rent? Basically, yes, sir. And so so I since I moved back in I've been trying to get rid of my debt and Following the baby steps, but you pay them rent No, I do not. Oh when why how would it affect them negatively if you left?

so there right now they're in a rental property and, um, their city is actually planning on demolishing the area that they are in. Is this the house you live in? Correct. How would it affect them negatively if you left? Cause I don't think they could, you know, uh, I don't think they could move into a new house without my help. You're not paying them any rent.

That's true. There's no net loss to them when you leave. It's a net gain. Yes, that is true. Because whenever they do have to move eventually, the rent that they're paying will be up more than what they're paying right now. And then you would start paying rent? Correct. To help them do that. Okay, correct bad solution

Yeah, so that's why I feel kind of stuck and I Got it. You need to everybody's got to reset their expectations in this Right. They're in an unrealistically low rental rate on a house. It's being demolished Correct. So they cannot rent the same house three streets over they can't afford it correct so they need to move to a different area yes sir so that's why I just feel stuck I feel like they're looking at me and it's not you it's them they need to move to an area that they can afford to live they're like grown-ups and stuff

Great. Yeah, maybe they need to act like it. But in a family dynamic I mean, I think Dave's calling out the the dysfunction in that that they're leaning on you to help them in their situation Well, or somebody made you feel guilty. I don't know whether you took it on yourself or they did Yeah, that's what I would say to you is to, is you have to be able to release that yourself because that is not your responsibility, even though the dynamic may feel like it is. And there's always a weird element with adult kids when their parents are in trouble to feel like they've helped me, they raised me,

they gave me a roof over my head growing up. So I in turn feel obligated and indebted to help them. Is that true? Yes, now that's exactly what happened. I had to recently move back five months ago and since they're not letting me pay any rent That's why I feel obligated to help them because they gave you that gift Correct, right. Well, and that's and that's a false obligation. Yeah, that wasn't the deal Okay, the deal wasn't you move back in and so you're indebted to us for the rest of your life. Right. That

wasn't the deal. You move back in, don't pay us any rent, get yourself straightened up, it's a gift we can give you right now. We can't continue giving you that gift because they're making us move to demolish the house and so now we've got to move to an area that's not even what we want to do because we can't afford to live here anymore. Right, correct. Lorraine, how old are you? I'm 26. Okay. Yeah, I just want to give you that permission to have that freedom to build your own life. And what it's going to force you to do as well is to say, oh crap, I don't have mom and dad as a safety net anymore because it's not good for them. And ultimately it's not good for me. So I'm going to have to make hard decisions as well.

And that's a tough spot and I'm sorry I'm sorry it's all coming to a head because of this situation but I would I would I would look at it as a gift in that way. Five years from now when you guys are all emotionally and financially sustained without leaning on each other you're gonna be better people and better for each other. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey guys, this is Rachel Cruz for Helix Sleep and I gotta say Winston and I love our Helix mattress. Winston likes a firmer mattress than I do, but differences like that are why Helix has lots of

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Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Open phones, a triple eight, eight two five, five two two five. Jennifer is with us in Phoenix, Arizona. Hi Jennifer, how are you? Hi, I'm doing well, thanks for taking my call. Sure, what's up? I wanted to see what y'all would do with a pile of money. I'm in baby steps 3B and 4, but then I found myself in storm number one, surprise I'm pregnant. And congratulations.

Thank you. Storm number two, five weeks later, I suffered a major medical event, found out I have an underlying condition that will put me at risk for more major medical events and we can't really address the problem for a year or two until baby gets here and we can do a lot of testing and investigate it. So I had been saving a bunch of money for a house but it had been sitting in a high yield savings account, but those rates are declining So would you guys leave it in high yield savings or would you move it into like a brokerage account? To maximize the yield because I feel like that goal is now three to five years down the road How much money in your emergency fund and how much money in this fund we're talking about?

My emergency fund is fifty thousand. It's twelve months. Uh-huh. And this money, this money is how much? My house fund is currently at $150,000. Okay. So you have $200,000. So this medical procedure, what's the financial dent that this might make? That's a million dollar question. Literally a million dollar question. Literally a million dollar question. I don't know. Well, you have health insurance.

Yes, I do. And I have very good health insurance, but I'm also out of work and currently on unprotected leave because of everything going on. So all of that- What do you make? Change. I make 140 a year. What's your husband make I don't have one of those okay and so you're

unprotected you're not making any money you don't have an income right now that is not a true statement I had a bunch of sick time and vacation time. I thought you said unprotected leave. I thought you meant your own family leave act with no pay. Okay. So again, what you've got to ascertain not from a fear base but just some actual analysis is, is this a $50,000 problem you're facing or a $200 thousand dollar problem out of pocket With your health insurance with your potential loss of income that'll be unpaid Once you run out of these other things and I kind of think you got a lot of savings here

So I shouldn't tell you about my brokerage fund or my sinking funds You you're a savings maniac girl. I love it How much is in the brokerage account and how much fund or my sinking fund. You are a savings maniac girl I love it. How much is in the brokerage account and how much is in the sinking fund? The brokerage fund is eighty thousand and the sinking fund is thirty thousand. What's it sinking for? A car, vacation vacation travel. Okay. So now we have three hundred and ten thousand dollars to weather this. I think you're okay. Breathe. Right? Well, I think that the scary thing, Jennifer, is you don't have a lot of answers and you won't

have a lot of answers until after the baby comes, correct? Absolutely. With the health situation. So I'm in no, there's no panic to do anything with this money. I would just keep everything. We would tell you to pause everything anyway since you are pregnant. There's nothing else to majorly do. And I would wait until baby comes, you're good,

run some tests, and if you're in the same position in 18 months, financially you're okay. And then you can make some big decisions. But I think you can take a portion of this and put it in a brokerage account. Would you tell her to go get a house right now? Dave's kinda smirking. I feel like he-

No, no I wouldn't. I would sit where I am and just, you could throw it in a high-yield savings And it doesn't matter what you do with this money for 18 months But you weren't gonna put this brokerage account down as the down payment on your house were you? No, that was see come on That was a retirement fund. That's not a retirement fund. It's a brokerage account That was a retirement fund. That's not a retirement fund, it's a brokerage account. Where I worked previously, they didn't offer...

How much do you have in your 401k Super Saver? 500. Okay, come on! Okay, you need to put... Well done, Jennifer. When this is over and you take your 3B 150k, add the brokerage account to it for your down payment on the house. I want you to put 230 down on the house when this is over.

Right now I don't want you to do anything I just want you to lean into the security that you've built for yourself. You are a master saver. You're amazing saver but you're taking it too far but for today it's okay that it's too far until you get past this storm. So when you get past this storm though, by the house, yeah, by the house and put all this money towards a stinking house, you know, seriously.

After the realization of the medical expenses and the ongoing, and the lost income. Whatever's left out of the brokerage account and out of the 150, But a 12 month emergency fund, no, stop that. Plus a brokerage account, just because I didn't have a retirement before, but I got a half million over here. You're in good, you're fine.

You're gonna be so rich, it's unbelievable. You can't keep yourself from saving money. You're amazing, well done. So yeah, your challenge, Jennifer, is gonna be resting in the peace of what you've created. I're amazing. Well done. So yeah, your challenge Jennifer is gonna be resting in the peace of what you've created. Yeah. I mean that's it. So this so lower the stress, enjoy this pregnancy, breathe just like Dave was saying like you're good. You are good. Don't make big moves right now. Have the baby. But

between now and baby like you're you are you are secure and great. Yeah. Let's get the medical thing in your rear view mirror and then let's get the savings trim back down to where it should be. And that's, that's what I would do if I woke up in your shoes. Zach is in Charleston, South Carolina. Hi Zach. How are you? I'm doing all right. Thank y'all for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So basically I was in a car accident not too long ago and the guy totaled my car and the settlement check is about six thousand

and I still have forty two hundred or forty five hundred left over on the car so I was wondering if I should pay off a car and then basically just wait till I can get another car or get another car and then like slowly chip off the debt. You can't. They're not gonna give you the check unless you give them the title for the total car and you're not gonna get the title for the total car unless you pay the loan off that's a lien on the car. Well they already gave them the title and they gave me they're sending me the check today. I bet it's net of the payoff.

They probably sent the payoff to the bank. Oh, okay. Because you got a lean on the car title. Right. Right, right. Yeah. Unless you did something that was not a lean on the car title. But either way, let's pretend that I'm wrong on this for some reason under South Carolina

law and I'm missing something. Then when you get the check, pay off the debt. And then you've got like a thousand bucks left or whatever it is, 1500 bucks left to go buy a beater car. And that's what I would do if I woke up in your shoes. Do you have any money saved, Zach? Do you have like an extra thousand somewhere? No, I'm very new to office.

Okay, no, you're great. Yeah, yeah, I'm very new to office. Okay, no, you're great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, the goal would be to get to buy a car in cash. And let me challenge you, Zach. So we're in Nashville and on Sunday, for whatever reason, maybe it's because I knew you were calling in Zach

and the Lord spoke to my heart, but I literally Googled $5,000 cars in Nashville. Cause I'm like, cause we get this call a lot and people are like, well, I can't get a $5,000 car. And I looked up and I'm likeled $5,000 cars in Nashville. Cause I'm like, cause we get this call a lot and people are like, well, I can't get a $5,000 car. And I looked up and I'm like, oh my, I mean, you just can scroll and scroll and they're not terrible looking cars. I mean, you know, they may be like 10 years old

or something, but I'm just saying you have $15,000. I would save up another 2000 and you can, and you can get what? You can get a 2,500. $1,500. $1,500, I'm sorry, that's what I meant, $1,000 and you can and you can get what you can get a 2500 1500 1500 I'm sorry that's what I meant 1500 but you can get a $3,000 car yes and they're out there they are out there what was your old car payment my old car payment was like 400 okay so I would say $500 a month after I buy my beater car so that I can

move up in car in six months because I don't want to drive this piece of crap for very long. Right. Okay. Yeah. $500 for six months is another $3,000 and $500 for another six months is another $3,000. This is how you get rich. You don't pay people car payments.

You buy things with cash and don't have payments. That's the goal. And that you're new to this stuff, that the that's the bottom line what we teach brother proud of you thanks for asking the question this is the Ramsey show if you're like most people your financial and personal documents are scattered all over making it hard to find a specific account number or password when you need it

and even harder for our loved ones when we pass away one key to having a healthy financial life is being able to password when you need it, and even harder for our loved ones when we pass away. One key to having a healthy financial life is being able to access your information, and KnockBox makes that simple. KnockBox, N-O-K, as in Next of Kin, is a complete system that helps you organize your important documents, accounts, IDs, tax returns, insurance policies, estate plans, and other personal history in one secure place. KnockBox saves your family the trouble of tracking down random scraps of paper or hacking

into your laptop. So don't add headaches to their heartache. Start getting organized today by visiting knockbox.com slash Ramsey. That's n-o-k-box dot com slash Ramsey. If you want to listen in to everything we do around here, you can do it on the Ramsey Network app. Download it. It's completely free and including the last hour of this show every day and you can jump in and catch the video and the audio and whatever else you can search it. There's all kinds of good stuff and you can ask questions on the Ramsey Network app.

This one is from Todd. Yes. Todd asks, should I consider converting my employer match each year in my 401k to Roth dollars and pay the taxes now? I'm 31 years old and wondering if converting the match each year will benefit our financial future in retirement. Yes. Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

You ought to do it and pay the taxes of of course, out of your pocket when you do that. Especially, Todd, if you're out of debt, if it's gonna be a large amount of money out of your pocket because of this, you may not wanna do it for a while. Just let it build up and you can go back and do it all at once. You can do it anytime you want.

You let it build up for four or five years and then do it all at once at that time. I do mine every year because my company that I own is required to match my, because I'm an employee of the company I own, which is weird, but I get a 401k with the company match and the match is required to be in traditional and I roll it to Roth at this time of year every year and that creates that amount of money to be taxed on.

But then I'm never taxed on the growth after that, nor are my heirs, because inheriting a Roth IRA is not anywhere near the problem that inheriting a taxable traditional IRA is. And so it even helps later on with your estate planning, because I don't have a single thing right now in my name or my wife's name. That's not Roth I have rolled everything to Roth and paid all the taxes in it So I'll have no required minimum distributions either at seventy two and a half when so other people will say That's an interesting part of the equation, but yeah, yes definitely Especially if it doesn't affect your get out of debt plan.

Now if it's taking money out of your pocket that you need to use to pay off your car, no let's wait a year or two and do it later. Do you have to do it all at once? You can do it every year at one time. The match for that year you can do it. No I know, but if you had a full one and you were converting a lump sum,

could you divide the lump sum into half and just convert half of it to half of it, like take it at a time. So if you had a hundred thousand dollars in traditional and you wanted to roll it, but you didn't want all the taxes in one year, you could do 50,000 and then next year do 50,000 if you want to do that kind of thing. And so you can let it build up if you're still getting out of debt and then go back and fix it later. I mean, you're only 31.

So if you'd have fixed it at 36, it still gonna have all the benefits of it growing tax-free for years and years and years and years and years. Gus is in Boston. Hey Gus, how are you? Hey Dave, I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So I was working a well-paying job, $100,000 a year, and I got laid off. I've been looking for work, something similar, something paying about the same for the past few months, but no luck. I haven't gotten any interviews at all. I believe that it's just the current market conditions, there's been lots of layoffs.

This is in the biotechnology sector, by the way. And so, right now, I'm debating going back and getting a master's degree because I think it would make me more qualified, more likely to land one of these high paying jobs again. However, I think that I would need to either cash out a brokerage account that I've been saving for a house eventually or take on debt to pay for this. Now I have no debt otherwise, not even a credit card. I've been listening to you for years. And so I guess I'm really nervous at the idea

of either cashing out this brokerage account, which I'm making gains on, or taking out debt to get another degree. But I don't have myself landing. Are you married? No, I'm not. Okay. What have you been living on while you've been laid off

for six months or three months? So I have an emergency fund, fully funded six months, but also I've been collecting unemployment. Okay. And you're living on the unemployment? Yes. Because you're not touched the emergency fund. I can tell by talking to you. Yeah, no. Yeah. Okay. How much longer does that run? So unemployment will go through the end of February, and then I'll have six months on the emergency fund. But as you know, I don't want to touch that unless it's a true emergency. Yeah.

Gus, what's the line of thinking that this degree is the thing that will get you in the job if you haven't had interviews anyways? Is it on the applications, like what you're seeing? You're like, Oh, I need that advanced degree for sure. Or is this just a, it's going to look better in general. And you think that's going to help you? So previously my title was senior research associate. And I got that with a year and a half experience and a bachelor's degree. Now I'm seeing for the same titles largely same responsibilities all of the postings are saying bachelor's or

master's and then I got a free trial a LinkedIn premium and it's been telling me that you know there's 60 plus applicants all with master's degrees who are applying to these same jobs with the same title. So I'm concerned that because a lot of biotechs went bankrupt this year, the market's been flooded with high quality applicants. Gotcha. So what did you, what was your day job, what did it look like? What did you do as a research researcher? So it was operating automated liquid handling systems, you know, like pipetting, working in a lab, lab coat, goggles, gloves, the whole deal. And so specifically it's next generation sequencing.

So it's all sort of furthering research objectives of these large pharmaceutical companies. Got that, Dave? Mm-hmm. Yeah, I did did. Yeah I'm just trying to what I'm looking for and the reason I paused is what I'm looking for is what that is how that is applicable beyond just the narrowness of this field. Something else yeah. Because the the other thing is is that we're starting to see some early signs of the economy getting a jump start. And so by first quarter of next year, I think the job market may look considerably different

than it looks today. That's an opinion from your perspective. What I don't know is the world that you're in and what the lab coat, goggles, and the Bunsen burner, how that applies to other industries other than the specific one you were in. I'm not sure that a master's degree gets you a job. Let's say for instance that 30% of the players in that nuanced area are now out of business. A master's degree doesn't necessarily get you in the door on the remaining 70% because the job market shrunk so dead gun much.

What does get you in the door is Ken Coleman's proximity principle. You know somebody that knows somebody there, that they'll at least give you a look, and you're one and a half years of experience actually doing the sequencing and actually doing the research is far superior if I'm the employer to someone that got a sheepskin, got a master's degree. Yeah, so now I'm at three years experience. Three years experience is far superior to a master's degree. I don't want someone that was taught to do it by a

college professor. I love someone who's actually done it. Like for three freaking years. I think your experience is superior to their master's degree is what I'm saying. But you haven't just gotten your foot in the right door to where someone will actually talk to you and will respect that three years. But within that nuanced world, the number of people

walking around with a master's degree and three years experience is fairly low. You might have a bunch of kids coming out of school with a master's and no experience and I think you got them beat. I think you're holding a straight flush here. So yeah, I'm going to work Ken Coleman's system and I'm going to work some other jobs and I'm going to start expanding my idea. Maybe I don't want to be doing this three years from now, five years from now. Maybe I want to apply these

skill sets in some other areas of research in the lab but not necessarily this nuanced area. I want to broaden the scope of my search and how applicable are these skills in other labs and in other situations. Even petroleum or something way off the grid. I mean where is it that there's a lab? I don't know. And I'm going to try to get in those labs because lab experience is lab experience. I understand that petroleum would be different than gene sequencing I get that but I still you would know more about going into any lab of any kind than I would because I've never been in one as an employee so that's you know I think you've got some broadening number one number two I'm gonna send you Ken Coleman's book the

proximity principle and I want you to use that to get in touch with people that you know that know, people that know, people that get your resume looked at. Because I think you've got a trump card here. This is The Ramsey Show. I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable.

Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible. People that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. When you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills in the middle- How am I going to eat next week? Yeah. In the middle of all that grief, like it's just, it is, it's terrible. And so life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Xander

is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And it doesn't cost much because Xander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not gonna be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say I'm gonna say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza. To get a free quote call 800-356-4282 that's 800-356-4282 or go to Zander.com. I'm Dave Ramsey your host thank you for joining us America Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality is my cohost,

number one bestselling author. And the new book is out, the new children's book came out today. That means a set of three is now available. I'm glad when I can share. There it is, teaching kids generosity, the last of the three. So contentment, gratitude and generosity

are the messages of the three books. This is the third in the trilogy and the final book. They're all available at ramsesolutions.com starting today. Great Christmas presents. Elisa is with us in Jacksonville, Florida. Hi Elisa, how are you? Hi Dave, hi Rachel, how are you guys? Great, how can we help? So I was wondering how much a mortgage rate should decrease before it's worth refinancing? Well that's a weird question is how long are you going to break even on the savings before you get rid of the mortgage is the way you look at it. So here's how you do the math. Okay. What is your current loan balance? $256.

Okay. And so if you save 1% a year, you save $2,500. If you save 2% a year, you save $5,000. Does that sound right? Yes. Does that sound right? Yes, okay, so if your closing cost if you're saving if your closing cost is $10,000 to refinance. I'll just make up a number okay Then how quick do you get your closing costs back? with the rate that with the savings that you have from a lower interest rate and so if you're Saving 2% in your case you're saving about $5,000 a year, you would recoup a $10,000 closing cost in two years and everything after two years you're going to make money. That's gravy

on the biscuit after two years. You see how I did that? Yes. So you divide the actual dollars saved with the lower interest rate into the closing costs and that gives you the break-even point and that should be less than three years typically people say two years you need to break even on the closing costs in about two years so a lot of times it takes a one and a half to a two percent savings for it to make sense. Okay. The average mortgage rate right now is adjustable after ten years. When does the ten years come up?

Not till 2033. Okay, so you got a little time to ride the market and again when the market is, what's your current interest rate? 6.5 percent. Again, when the market is what's your current interest rate? six point five percent, okay, and So you know you're not going to get a two percent savings right now No Not and you probably not even gonna get a one percent savings today you might but something depending on how you structured loan Whatever, but that doesn't count points

We're not paying points to create a false thing but the bottom line is the interest the refinance saves you money on interest and That gives you the money to pay back the closing costs and you need for those closing costs to be paid back in Two to three years for it to make sense and that that's how you run the actual calculation on it and You'll have that happen long before your adjustable rate kicks in in 2033. I was gonna say in that many years who knows what the interest rates are gonna look like. Who knows? I mean but the average mortgage folks out there across the span of my 40 years of being around real estate and in the real estate business the average mortgage stays on the books only five and a half years,

either due to refinance or sale of the property. And so you really don't keep a 30-year mortgage 30 years in reality. So very often. I mean a few people do. I'm talking about the average. And so you certainly don't want something where the breakeven on your refinance is 10 years in a world where the average mortgage on your refinance is 10 years in a world where the average mortgage has gone in five and a half. So that's bad. Of course, also you would include in that if I'm paying aggressively on the mortgage, how quickly will it be paid off?

Am I going to have it paid off before I break even? That's another thing you would have to look at. So, but we're just, you're trying to look at the actual dollars saved as a result of the lower interest rate versus the actual dollars in closing costs and that gives you your breakeven analysis from an accounting perspective and that'll help you make the decision very, very quickly. The good news is, Rachel, that that's now a thing again.

That rates have softened a little bit, they're not up, they're not way up, they're not way down, but there's a lot of optimism out there and a lot of people starting to look at this. And four months ago, no one was even talking about that. They were just frozen during the headlights. And it's just fascinating the way real estate shakes out because we were even talking on one of my shoots,

the Rachel Cruze show shoot yesterday, that in 2021, 2022, people were afraid it was a bubble and everything was gonna pop. Because of how quickly prices rose and increased, and now they've just stayed there, which has made the market tough, right? To get in what you had to have in 2017 looks so much different than what you have to have today.

So it is difficult, but if you go to ramsysolutions.com slash real estate, that's kind of our real estate home base, if you will. And we have so much information because we know this is a big topic for people. So this is everything from talking about agents to your first time home buying, or if you're looking to move, what the market's doing.

There's articles, podcasts, there's so much there. So if you have interest on real estate and more of what Ramsey has to say, you can go to ramsesolutions.com slash real estate and check it out, check it out there. Matthew's in Omaha. Hi Matthew, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi.

So I'm looking to basically minimize the taxes my parents are paying in retirement on their IRAs that they're taking distributions out of. That's basically my question. Can't. You can't. No, required minimum distributions are taxable.

You can't get out of them. Well, so we're not in required minimum distribution yet. So my dad's 66 and my mom's 61. Why are they drawing on it? How are they growing on 61. Why are they drawing on it? How are they growing on it? Why are they drawing on it? They need the money? Um, I mean, they're drawing on it basically for, um, you know, just like they want a deck, so they want to put a deck on, uh, the back of their house.

So they're thinking about drawing on their retirement fund. They're still making about 140K a year plus around 20,000 dividends. So, and they've also got a, they've got five real estate properties. With about, they're making about 60,000 a year, I think they're pulling. So they have a $200,000 a year income,

they can't figure out what to buy a deck? Yeah, so they're trying to put about an $80,000 deck on the house, the residential house. Nice deck. And, I'm sorry? Nice deck. Oh yeah, it will be a very nice deck. It's going to have a covering and it'll be pretty nice. But yeah, so they're looking to do that

But it's kind of they were thinking about pulling $100,000 out $100,000 out on the house. How much do they have in retirement? In their portfolio, they have about two point two million Okay, and then they have about a million dollars worth of Real estate that it makes rent and then they have about a million dollars worth of real estate that it makes rent and then they have a million dollar residential house. Okay. I think they've got this figured out. I don't think they need you or me. I think they've got the money and when you pull money out of a traditional IRA and you got two million dollars in there and you pull money out, it's going to be taxable. There's not a hack on that, man. There's no hack. It's just taxable. Period.

That's the problem with the traditional instead of the Roth. That's why we want to move as many people towards Roth as we can because when they get up here, if it was in a Roth, it'd be a no-brainer. There'd be no taxes on it. Is there any time to pull money out of retirement? If you're still working, you're at retirement age, you can do it without penalty. Is there ever a time you'd say, yeah, yeah, yeah, use your retirement for that? They can do it without penalty. Is there ever a time you'd say, yeah, yeah, use your retirement for that? They can do it without penalty and they can pull this 100 grand out of there and it's 2.2 million, they can afford it.

But he's wanting to not pay taxes on it. You can't do that. You're gonna pay taxes on it. There's not a hack for that, dude. It's just taxable, period. And there's not an offset on it. If there's an offset, you know, interesting. offset on it if there's an offset you know interesting so I'm probably personally not going to do that if I'm in their situation I'm going to budget

for the deck they can afford it it's not gonna kill them it's not bankrupting them but they don't want to pay the taxes on this it's an ouchy I hate taxes I don't pay the taxes on it either it's an ouchy so I'm gonna find another way out of $60,000 worth of real estate income and $140,000 to get the rest of this paid so that's simple that's gonna be my plan so that puts us our of the Ramsey show in the books do you ever feel like you're finally making progress towards your goals only to get quickly distracted by something else in your feed?

Well that's why we created the Ramsey Network app, your single source for content that keeps you motivated. The Ramsey Network app is designed to keep you laser focused on reaching your goals. Loaded with over $7,000 of Ramsey shows, this free app is the best place for uninterrupted content and no distractions. Plus, you can search specific questions to get more personalized content in seconds. So for the days you need some extra motivation, you'll have proven advice at your fingertips. It's time to get serious about your goals and shut out the distractions for good. Simply search Ramsey Network in the App Store or Google Play.

If you're listening on a podcast, just click the link in the show notes to download our free Ramsey Network app today. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions it's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality is my co-host today, my daughter and number one best-selling author and the new book, the new children's book I'm Glad When I Can Share is out today. So be sure you check it out at Ramsesolutions.com. That's the third of the children's books. That trilogy makes a great Christmas

present, so be sure and check it out. I am Dave Ramsey your host Don is with us and Don is in Alaska. Hi Don how are you? I'm doing good sir how are you? Better than I deserve what's up? I have a gold dredging operation that I'm part of and I can expect to gain just about 24 to 35 ounces of gold this upcoming season. Um, and that is the operation is paid solely in the metal that we collect, uh, and no cash, uh, or, uh, payroll is, uh, given, uh, and I'm kind of curious on what would be the best way of, uh, selling that gold or capitalizing on that gold because with the current gold price that would be right around from the very worst that we could do on averages speaking I could get around about 50 or

so thousand dollars with the current gold price so that's your pay for a year not for a year it's a three-month operation. So in January to April. But it's your pay for your job? For the hours go. Yeah, it's more of a kind of a partnership than it is a job necessarily. Okay. So some guys are going out dredging gold. You're gonna get your cut. Yeah, and it's 50 grand. Well you may know more about actually liquidating the raw gold than I would know, but what I would do is liquidate it.

I'm going to turn it into money. Okay. I'm not holding it as an investment. I'm going to turn it into money and use that money to achieve my particular financial goals which around here we would call baby steps. Yeah and I already have the 25,000 in in uh for uh what emerging fund sorry. Good. I was just kind of curious. Are you debt free? I am debt free right now. You own your house free and clear? I don't have a curious. Are you debt free? I am debt free right now. You own your house free and clear?

I don't have a house. I currently live in employee housing with my current employer in Dutch Harbor. I would like to eventually get to the point where I'd have a duplex or a triplex or something of that nature. But current gold prices or sorry the property prices where I call home is a little bit more than I'd be able to save up for in my opinion. Well what would a duplex cost? The current one I'm looking at right now is about $4.99. Okay, so take a few years of saving up to do that.

What else do you do other than this? I'm a commercial diver. I I dive for gold and I also I work for a company up here. Yeah So what's your income on that and you're welcome? About 60 a year. Okay, so your income your household income so to speak you is 50 and 60 so 110 does that sound right yes about okay cool all right and you're a single guy with all your housing paid for so you can save a ton of this and just start throwing it in good mutual funds and use those mutual funds to pay cash for a duplex later so the danger of

what of your situation is is that that you and your buddies, your employers, are all very familiar with touching and owning and transacting in raw gold. Because it's just part of your culture where you are, right? It's like everywhere. It's all around you. Yeah. I mean, and so the danger of that psychologically is it causes you to kind of normalize that where it's not normal anywhere else to do that, but it is right there in your world. Uh, and if it normalizes, it caused you not to look at it through the lens of an

investment instead, it's just kind of part of your life and so I'm going to step back and look at it as an investment and say I don't want to do this as an investment. I would rather have my money in good mutual funds and let the volatility of the gold world not affect a young single diver in Alaska. I want you to make a bunch of money and end up with a bunch of it instead of rolling the dice and when you're playing with metals like gold you're rolling the dice. You see what I'm saying? Yeah it's definitely a gamble. That's what I mean. In the different ways you can look at it. I mean we're only since it's 90% pure it's not that kind of stuff you go buy at Costco

necessarily. No. It's 90% gold 7% silver. So it's it's 90% pure, it's not that kind of stuff you go buy at Costco necessarily. No. It's 90% gold, 70% silver. So it's a little bit different than what you go and liquidate at a jeweler or going. Yeah. So how do you sell the raw gold? I don't know how to do that. How do you do it? So there's a few different ways. The first way that a lot of people do, there's a company up here called GCR. I think got that right they'll they'll take a small cut of it and they'll refine it they'll give you a 50% check right off the bat and then a couple weeks later after everything is said and done they give you a check of it but that check is about

10% less than the actual value of it so that digs in a little bit to it the other way that I've been doing it I will either go to a somebody who wants to sell like a truck or something and I'll buy the truck with the metal I did that that was pretty fun going off Got my vehicle and The last way is some people especially those folks that do the Bering Sea Gold show They will do what's called pay dirt bags. They take a little bit of gold, they take a handful of dirt and put

it in a bag and sell it to people that think they want to be all cool and fun and be a prospector for a day. And that's one way I was kind of wondering if it would be smart to do that kind of thing. Nah, that's a business move. You're starting another business now. I'm not doing that. I'm just looking for a way. The first way sounds the most logical to me is you're giving up a cut to turn it into money. It's that simple.

And the only question I would have is there someone down in the lower 48 that you can jump on a plane that does the same thing that company does but gives you a better cut Like are they up because they're up there are they are they leaning into this? In certain cases yes, there's I mean the New York's kind of one of the big places but that's quite a large plane ticket to get over there and that'd be cutting into the amount that you get back but Roughly the GCR is kind of the one that you want to go with.

Really it's anywhere depending on the purity. It's on the easiest to five to 10%. Yeah. Your option is you got a pile of rocks in the corner or you go JCR and give up 10% turn into cash. And so I'm gonna turn into cash. I'm gonna turn into cash. I like that. And I'm not getting in the dirt bag business. That's a different thing. Not now it's a tourist thing and you have a new business and it's a business move We're starting a small business in order to liquidate this stuff. And so and that's probably not the way I'm going either

How interesting I know well, I was gonna say cuz first time I've gotten that call in 32 years He actually finds the gold Yeah, never got the old dawn's pretty cool, Don. The cold water deep diver in Alaska dredging gold call. Now, Mike Rowe actually knows those guys. And so he's up there all the time. He's been out on those boats. Yeah. Yeah, that's a different thing.

Interesting. Fun way to make some good money too, 50 grand. Yeah, pretty cool. Well done, Don. Honored to have you in our audience. Fun way to make some good money too. 50 grand. Yeah. Well done, Don. Honored to have you in our audience. Very neat what you're doing, Don. Very adventurous. This is the Ramsey Show.

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finances. That's fairwinds, F-A-I-R-W-I-N-D-S dot org slash Ramsey. Hey guys it's Rachel Cruz and guess what? It's my favorite time of year. The lights, the music, the decorations, I mean, I love it all. And as a natural spender like myself, it's really easy to overspend. And I want to do all the things and give my family the kind of holidays they'll always remember. And at the same time, I don't want to look back at my bank account in January and think, oh, what did I do?

So that's why I use the EveryDollar budgeting app. It helps me plan for all of my spending. And that's what a budget is. Then once I have my plan in place, I don't have to worry about overspending. I am free to spend, guilt free, and have fun doing it. Plus, with EveryDollar, you can customize your budget however you want. So whether it's buying gifts, hosting dinners, or even turning your living room into a winter wonderland, EveryDollar helps you plan for it all.

So you guys go out and create some great holiday memories with your family without the stress of overspending. Download the EveryDollar app for free today. Go download it today. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. The Ramsey Show Question of the Day is brought to you by WhyRefi. WhyRefi refinances defaulted private student loans, which are different than federal student loans. WhyRefi refinances your defaulted private student loans and builds a custom loan based on your ability to pay. So kick your private student loan debt out of your life by going to whyrefi.com slash Ramsey.

That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Jamie in Minnesota. She said, my husband and I are 51 and 53. We're debt-free and have three cars that are fully paid for with household income of $150,000. We are debating whether or not we should sell one of our cars worth $50,000 and apply that to our mortgage. We owe about $90,000 on our mortgage and will be paid off in one year

if we sell the car versus three years if we do not sell the car. My husband thinks you should not pay off your house early because we can't deduct the mortgage interest on the tax returns and he's afraid we'll owe the IRS. Last year we paid $3,097.66 in mortgage interest. Can you provide some feedback on that and what your recommendations are? Okay. Well, the mortgage or the tax deduction in general, including mortgage interest, is the biggest piece of mythology in all of personal finance because it requires that people forget how to do sixth grade math. Let me walk you through it. If,

Jamie, if you actually itemize, then you can claim your charitable deductions and your mortgage interest rates. By the way, last year, because the standard deductions and your mortgage interest rates. By the way, last year because the standard deductions are so high, almost no one itemized, including you. You probably didn't even itemize. So your husband is completely unaware of how this whole thing works because you didn't take a deduction for your mortgage interest unless you itemized. Nine percent of Americans itemize. Ninety-one percent do not. If you do not itemize you do not get a tax deduction for your charitable or for your interest. So 91% of the people this

doesn't even come up with. Right. So that's just dumb. Not you, not you, Jamie. But when people are saying, well, I don't want to lose my, you're not taking it anyway. You just don't even know how your taxes work. You're that key plug into it. All right. Now, if, if you do, if you did itemize then you sent the mortgage company three thousand dollars 3097 dollars 3100 bucks and that reduced your income your hundred and fifty thousand dollar income by $3,000 a tax deduction is not a tax credit it lowers the amount of income that is taxed So the tax savings is not $3,100. The tax savings is $3,100 times your tax rate, which is 32% in your case. Okay? And so you saved $1,000 in taxes, if you itemized. So here's how this works. Your husband is suggesting

absurdly that you send the government thirty one hundred dollars or you send the mortgage company thirty one hundred dollars to keep from sending the government $1,000. You're trading dollars for quarters. Dumb trade. So always pay off your mortgage. Never keep it for the tax deduction. If you send somebody $10,000 to keep from sending the government three thousand dollars by definition that's mathematically stupid and then I call myself sophisticated because I didn't pay off my mortgage because they had the tax deduction but I don't even take the tax deduction because I'm not even one of the people that itemized and I just didn't even know that that's most people with this opinion around the Thanksgiving table they're just

absolutely do not know how to do math and they don't know the reality of the situation. Now worse than that, worse than your broke brother-in-law telling you this at Thanksgiving, you're silly, Dave Ramsey doesn't, but worse than him, the one that pisses me off to no end are people that do taxes for a living and they tell the small business person or they tell you to not pay off your mortgage because you'll lose the tax deduction or to run your expenses up on things you don't need to buy you need to spend some money by the end of the year otherwise you're gonna get taxes well that is asinine it's ridiculous you own a hair care place and you spend ten thousand bucks you don't

need to spend because your tax preparer is a moron who told you to do that that's dumb let me help you you got two words for these people that give you that advice you're fired The tax write-off. It's like the Schitt's Creek episode where he's like, well, just it's a write-off. And he's like, yeah, but who's writing it off? He's like, I don't know, the write-off people. It just gets written off.

It's like this mystical idea of the tax write-off. Like it is like a- It justifies all my stupidity. Oh yeah, always. It's like, well, I don't know. It's a tax write-off. It's a write-off. Well, who's going to pay for it? I don't know. The write-off. Like it is like a. It justifies all my stupidity. Oh yeah, always. It's like, well I don't know, it's a tax write-off. It's a write-off. Well who's gonna pay for it? I don't know, the write-off people.

The write-off people. That's great, I didn't see that episode. So listen, if your tax person is telling you to run up your expenses or to not pay off debt because you're getting a tax deduction, they're telling you to trade dollars for quarters. You don't need someone that can't add to it in your taxes, you need new tax people. Go to ramsSolutions.com and get with one of our

tax people they do not make this mistake believe me we wouldn't they would not have a Ramsey trusted sign on their door if they made this mistake because they wouldn't be trusted by me because they don't trust people they can't do math so there you go that's what we're doing here so guys whatever you do don't fall for the tax deduction myth. And the irony of ironies is all of these people discussing it, 91% don't itemize in America today. That's everybody y'all. I mean, so the majority of people, you get a better deal if you just take the standard deduction anyways. That's what I mean. Yeah. Why you don't, they don't

need to, you don't need to itemize. You don't need to. Yeah, it's not like you're stupid. You don't probably don't need to. Actually under the Trump tax code in his last administration, he ran the standard deduction way up. You get an automatic deduction just because you breathe. Yep.

And your real deductions don't add up to that. So you're better off to take the big one. Right, right, exactly. The breathing deduction. Yes. From the write-off people. That's right, from the standard deduction has changed the game and it's made the tax filings very easy. And that's probably up to more in the last what? Ten years. Way up. In the last what? Ten years. Yeah. I mean 15 years ago if I was talking about this it

would have been 70%. Because this was a main point back in the day at our live events, back in 2004. This was a big discussion. And now it's not, you don't hear it as much anymore. Because the standard deduction was raised and the number of people there for that don't itemize is so few. Yes. It was absurd back then,

because you're trading dollars for quarters and we used to cover it in the live events in those old arena events. That's right, that's right. And it was absurd back then. It's just as for quarters and we used to cover it in the live events in those old arena events. That's right. That's right. And it was absurd back then. It's just as absurd now for the same reason, but it's doubly absurd because it really doesn't apply to hardly anybody anymore.

And I'll bet you money, Jamie does an itemize. 91% done. And so it doesn't even come up. So her husband's arguing a theory that he's not even doing. And then if he was doing it, he's trading dollars for quarters, so don't trade dollars for quarters. Pay off your mortgage. And the other argument for not paying off the mortgage

is I can make more in the markets versus what I'm paying in interest. Yeah, said no millionaires ever. Right. The millionaires that we, the 10,000 millionaires that we studied, none of them, precisely zero, said I became a millionaire by not paying off my house and investing the difference into the market.

None of them say that. It's always broke people that say this stuff. The broke people that don't wanna lean in and do the smart, long-term financial plays like getting your home paid off. So yeah, it's asinine, you guys. The data just does not back it up the math does not back it up pay off your house people when you get to baby step six finish the baby steps and pay it off and don't deal with tax people that can't add please God this is the Ramsey show. This is the Ramsey and get 15% off with promo code RAMSEY.

www.fieldofgreens.com slash Ramsey. Folks the Ramsey Christmas Cash Giveaway is here and you could win big. We're giving away $500 prizes each week and one grand prize of $5,000. Enter daily for your chance to win at ramsysolutions.com slash giveaway. It's that easy. Plus our 50 days of Christmas deals is on right now. Get up to 30% off bestsellers and life-changing gifts that won't break the holiday budget. rseySolutions.com slash store. Rachel Cruz, number one best selling author. Ramsey personality, my daughter is my co-host today.

Feel free to drop by and visit us in the Ramsey headquarters. We do this show from one to four central time every Monday through Friday and it's free to drop in and watch the show. We do the show on the glass in the lobby and there's always 50 to 200 folks out here watching the show. There's free chocolate chip homemade cookie smells like mama's kitchen when you walk in here and free coffee. So come hang out with us, watch the show, whoever's taping it and doing it that day is not taping, it's live, but

we're here doing it. And in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions when we built this building we put up the debt free stage right across from our glass here and one of our favorite things is to do a debt free scream on the debt free stage the only thing that is more exciting for us than to do a debt free scream on the debt free stage is to do it with a Ramsey Solutions team member and Breanna Moore is with us. She's one of our team members. Welcome Breanna.

Hi. Way to go. Hello. Congratulations. Thank you. I can't believe I'm here. Tell folks what you do here at Ramsey and how long you've been with us. I've been here for four years and I do SEO and content marketing for our amazing real estate department,

shout out to real estate. So our Ramsey trusted real estate agents all across the nation benefit from your hard work. Yes. And you're writing, doing the content on the website and other things to cause, content marketer to cause all that to happen. Yes sir. Okay.

Very cool, good for you. Four years you've been on the team. All right, now we do not, this is the one time we don't ask the folks income because 30 or 40 of the people standing around, 50 of the people standing around work with her and that would be a wee bit awkward. So we're not gonna do that.

But we will ask you this, how much did you pay off? $204,000. Oh my gosh. And how long did it take? Six years. Six years,000. Oh my gosh And how long did it take six years six years? Wow, and 40 kind of debt was this student loans 164 that was the principal and then 40,000 of that was interest. So it's all student loans. Yes student loans

Would you get your degree in digital media management?, so business, four year business degree. Yes. At a private school in Austin, so. There you go. And you paid for it. Austin's cool though. Yeah. Wow. Oh my gosh, how great though. How long have you been out of school?

Six years. Okay, so you started immediately. Yes. And it took you six years to clean it up. You leaned in four of those years you've been here. Yes. So does it make it more awkward to work at Ramsey while you're working your debt snowball or easier?

Because I would think all the peer pressure is positive. Yeah, it was definitely easier and more fun and I felt less shame telling people how much I was paying off. So that was really fun to be like, yeah, it's six figures. Your co-workers are like cheering you on, right? I mean, your team members, right? They're like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Yes. Okay. That I hope so. Yeah. If not, tell me who they are. Yeah. I love it. Very cool. So incredible. Okay. So what

happened six years ago? So you graduate college? Yeah. So I think it was towards the end of college. I was realizing what I had gotten myself into. I don't think before I went to college, I really understood what you know is a loan and that you have to pay that back. Yeah And so towards the end of college I knew okay, it's kind of a non-negotiable I can't live with this debt for the rest of my life. So I knew I was gonna have to take FPU so I did that as soon as I graduated and I knew I had how did you know to do that? My parents informed me of you and your program.

Yeah. They're everyday millionaires and teach FPU. So they were able to kind of learn with me at first and become those everyday millionaires and everything too. And then we kind of like did it together. And they're here with you today, right? Yeah, yeah, so fun. Way to go, mom and dad.

You gotta be proud. Very good. So that's some of your other cheerleaders other than your teammates. Yes yeah but yeah so after graduation took FPU started paying it off and I would actually like cry myself to work because I hated my job and I was doing it basically because I knew that I had to have an income and do something and I was living rent free at home and I would listen. I knew I was gonna cry. No you're great. You're doing great. Where were you living? In Houston with my parents. Okay all right. Sorry. That's okay. No you're good. It's

been a long journey of doing this. Six years is a long time. You've been fighting this by yourself warrior princess. Way to go. Pr's a lot. You've been fighting this by yourself, Warrior Princess, way to go. Proud of you. Anyway, so I would listen to the Ramsey show on my way to work and cry, and listen to the Deftree Screams and envision myself doing this one day.

So it's really cool. And I didn't know I was gonna work here. How did you end up coming to work here? Y'all found me on LinkedIn and asked me to apply and I did and then y'all gave me the job. Great recruiting team. Wow. Shout out to Aisha. Yeah, that's right.

We tracked her down and snagged her out of a miserable job. Pretty much, yeah. And yeah, so then the rest of the four years has been here and it's been an amazing journey. Wow. Oh my gosh. Okay, so you moved to Nashville. Yes. And it's a fun.

Now wait a minute, you get the call from us and you're working this plan because of us and your mom and dad are FPU graduates and you've been through FPU and we call up out of the blue and say, do you wanna join us? Yeah. I mean, that had to be weird.

It was very much a God thing. It's called Jesus. Jesus. Yes. Don't call Jesus weird God thing. Jesus. Yes. Don't call Jesus weird. Jesus. Okay, yeah. Oh my gosh.

Okay, so I wanna know from the moment, so you moved to Nashville, and Nashville's a fun city, right? I mean, there's things happening, stuff is, you know, people are going out. I mean, it's an enjoyable town. So what was the pressure like, or what was the feeling, the sacrifice,

like the hard of saying no to a life? Like what were the things that you said no to that were really difficult? I'm shopping. Yeah, girl. I'm like, I like to look cute and I couldn't for a long time. So shopping definitely.

For six years though, I did have to budget like some fun in there because I was just gonna go insane if I didn't. So I was able to do some very small weekend trips with friends and keep it and control it. Totally. The sacrifices were not having any time to myself. I was working up to seven jobs at one point.

Oh my gosh, what were you doing? So working full time. I have a photography business on the side and then I was doing anywhere from like three to six to seven additional freelance jobs where I had SEO clients on monthly retainer. And so I was doing that for several years and it was exhausting and miserable.

And I was just working nonstop. I would work here, I have memories of working here, getting off at four, going downstairs and sitting in the cafe and working for an hour On side jobs going to work out and then going home and working until I went to sleep and I would do that for just like Five days in a row just straight all the way grinding it out. I mean you're making some good money on the side Yeah, I was making on a low year 15,000 all the way up to like 30,000 a year inside jobs amazing Which is what helps put a dent in 200Ks, right?

Of debt, I mean yeah, that's what had to be done. Yeah, the budget was obviously helpful, but I'm already kind of naturally a frugal person, so for me, having that much and being a single income, I just had to get more money. I had to do anything to make more money. How does it feel to be free? Feels good.

I kind of didn't, I haven't really felt what it feels like to be free. Murphy hit me two weeks after I paid off my debt and I got in a car accident. Somebody hit me and totaled my car. So I haven't really felt that free because I've been financially dealing with that too. So I'm like hopefully after today I'll feel really that free. Well it's official, you are. Yes. By the way. Yeah. Congratulations. So proud of of you so your mom and dad your teammates cheer you on anybody else was your cheerleader yeah my parents my brother my sister-in-law and then all my friends Annalisa and Alyssa

specifically and then all of my awesome teammates and co-workers yeah very cool well done congratulations thank you all right other than getting a job at Ramsey and having us track you down, what is the key to getting out of debt for all those FPU graduates out there listening? For me, it was making extra income, definitely. And just not, there's no other option but to do it and get out of debt.

And no matter how much you have, you can do it. I did it as a single person And I made it happen sold are you 29 that was the other thing I was gonna say I paid it off Three days before my birthday So I had 30 a little over 30,000 at the beginning of this year and I said, okay I want to do this before I turned 29 happy birthday. Well done. I love it. I love it. I love it Well, we're proud of you. I know your mom and dad and all your friends are. Way to go. Alright, it's Brianna. She paid off $204,006 in six years. Four of those years working on this team. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream.

Three, two, one. I'm debt-free! Yeah! Hoo hoo hoo hoo! So good. Man, she leaned in. She's amazing. That was strong. So good.

This is The Ramsey Show. Well, it's decision time again. Every year during open enrollment you have the chance to check in on your insurance and make sure it's right for you and your family. Whether you have health coverage through your job, a private company, or a government program like Medicare, you don't have to figure this out alone. We have reliable folks we trust to help you get the right coverage for whatever stage you're in. Go to ramsysolutions.com slash health dash coverage.

Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. We tell you around here if you'll pay a price to win you get to win. We say live like no one else so later you can live and give like no one else and when you're in baby steps one and two and even three where you're finishing the emergency fund and you're paying off all your debt but your house you should not go on vacation you should not go out to eat you should lean in and knock your debt out as fast as you can but when you get to baby step four you go from intense to intentional and that's when you get to buy that new couch or upgrade

your car or go on vacation that's why we named the cruise the Ramsey cruise the live like no one else cruise because it's for baby step four and beyond it is almost sold out there's a handful of cabins left for March 22 through 29 in 2025 this is a premium Caribbean cruise Turks and Caicos Puerto Rico st. Thomas the Bahamas Holland America is one of their newest ships. It is a high stand. I don't listen. I don't go on these cheap cruises Okay, I want I like the nice nice ones Dave is bougie with his travel. I don't know about

But I'm not staying in the freaking Holiday Inn anymore. I've worked too hard So and the and I'm not staying in the Holiday Inn on the seas either. So this is a nice ship It's gonna be a lot of fun Sharon and I will be on the ship the entire time all of the Ram and I will be on the ship the entire time. All of the Ramsey personalities will be on the ship the entire time. The comedian Trey Kennedy that makes fun of me will be on the ship. That's fun.

World class chef from the Food Channel, Manit Shohan will be on the ship. Dove Award winner, Grammy Award winner, Steven Curtis Chapman and Dina Carter, both will be on the ship and there's going to be others. It's going to be a wonderful, fun, laughing, celebrating, entertaining week and most of you are not going to get to go because there's just a handful of cabins left. You need to get your cabin while you can. You can put down a small

deposit and lock it in and we would love to have you do that. Ramsesolutions.com slash cruise. If you don't get this done you're gonna have FOMO or whatever that version is for Cruzmo. So there you go. Don't miss out on this. Open phones at 888-825-5225. John's in Pittsburgh. Hey John, what's up? Hi Mr. Ramsey, thanks so much for talking to me. So in a nutshell, our issue is that our home is more expensive than we probably should have gotten. We are living paycheck to paycheck

and quite often the paycheck doesn't even cover for two weeks so we are bleeding from our minimal savings and paying for the things with our credit card and only paying the minimum. How much is your house payment? It is $2,090 a month. And what's your take-home pay? Take-home pay is about $55 to $70. $55? No, that's not take home. That's total. Your take home pay in a month. Sorry, take home pay in a month is $4,200. You have to sell the house, John. That's what we were thinking about doing. You don't have a choice. Your house spends 50% of your take-home pay hun, you can't do that. That's why you're dying. You had a feeling of that but the arithmetic is screaming that

you're starving to death. So I guess my biggest concern with that is if we're not able to, like if we don't have enough equity in the home to cover clothing costs John you can't stay in the house pocket you can't stay in the house how does that how does that look like where does that that money come from I guess right now you're putting it right now you're putting on credit cards yeah that's true yeah so I'd rather have five thousand dollars on a credit card than a mortgage you can't afford. So what's the math of the of the mortgage right now John? What do you guys owe? We owe $287. Okay how much is it worth? I mean we actually just got it back down to what what it was worth and we got it was

287.5 but some of the closing costs were rolled into the when did you buy it was to not to 90 there it was in November of 22 okay go online at Ramsey solutions.com and get one of our Ramsey trusted real estate agents that are high performers that actually know what the flip they're doing have them come out and look at this and give you a market analysis and tell you what you can do. But you've got to find a way out of this thing. It's not sustainable. That's what you already knew. You just needed someone else to say it out loud. I think you might be right. It's not even close. You're not like on the

bubble or anything. You're over in the deep end of the pool there's no there's no debate yeah now the only the only thing that it could happen is you know do you have anything in the near future in the next six months with your daytime career your normal career that looks like you're gonna have a huge increase in pay second job would be the no no no, no. I wasn't talking about. Second job is not sustainable. I don't want to sign up for something where I do a second job for 15 years. I'll do a second job for a short period of time to get out of a mess. Clean up a mess, right? But you don't want to do that.

Your house poor. This house owns you. You don't own it. I'm so sorry. And it's going to be a little embarrassing but you guys you got married and everybody yelled at you and said young couple go buy a house go buy a house go buy a house go buy a house and then we went and found a house we liked and the idiots at the mortgage company just signed your butt up and they put you in a crack didn't they? Feels that way. Yeah. Do you guys have kids John? Well that's one of the other things

costing is we kind of have one we weren't exactly expecting very thankful for sure but we were not expecting. Is your wife expecting or do you guys already have the baby? She's been around for a little while. Oh, okay. Good. How long you guys been married? Since 2015, so almost 10 years. Okay, so you're like 30 years old?

35. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, let me tell you a couple things, alright? When I was 28, I went broke and lost everything and I was in a much more severe situation than you're in. But it taught me some things about situations

with stress and this. The number one cause of divorce in North America today is money fights and money problems and money stress. And you got that. So your wife is afraid, and she may not wanna leave this house, and you're confused and feel like you did something really dumb and maybe you know maybe it hit maybe you

took a hit in your confidence in that that would be normal those things if y'all are having money fights and she's very afraid and you're not as confident as you were before all of this mess, you would be normal. That would be a normal reaction to your situation, okay? What I want you to do is get away from all that. The destabilization of your marriage, your lack of confidence, her being terrified. This house is not worth it. It's just a stupid house. There's a house on every corner in Pittsburgh. I've been there They're everywhere and you'll get you another house that doesn't get you you'll never do this again You'll never make this mistake. You got the rest of your life to make other mistakes, but you'll never make this one again, right?

Yeah, yeah, it's no fun is it? It's not yeah is what I was saying true fun is it? It's not. Yeah. Is what I was saying true? Um, everything except for my wife. She's totally on board with getting rid of this place. She's like, I want out. Yeah. Well, it's not fun for her. And the interesting thing, John is, you know, we, we have a phrase called financial peace. It's one of the books that Dave wrote,

but, but that is, it is what we want for people is peace. We want peace. And just like you said, Dave, like it's a house. It's called Financial Peace. It's one of the books that Dave wrote. But that is, it is what we want for people is peace. We want peace. And just like you said, Dave, it's a house. It's just, it's a house. And it's not worth the stress and the anxiety and any level of status of home ownership or whatever the play is for you. It's not worth it.

Your peace is worth so much more than stuff. And that's true for cars or anything, but it feels magnified because a house, it is big. I mean, it's a $300,000 idea, and it's where your family lives, there's emotional attachment, I mean, all of it. But get rid of it and go rent somewhere and just breathe for two to three years.

And save some money and get a down payment and then buy something else based on your income at that time and you don't take out folks more than a house payment more than a fourth of your take-home pay not half your take-home pay and just because the idiots at the mortgage company will give you the loan does not mean it's a good idea they will ruin you if you let them and they'll pinch you if you let them and they'll make your life miserable if you let them. And they'll pinch you if you let them. And they'll make your life miserable if you let them. They don't care. They don't have a soul. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, you're still here? What are you doing?

You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey Network app, right? All you got to do to finish the episode is search Ramsey Network in the App Store, Google Play Store, or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for free. Yep, you heard me right, for free. Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show. Bada bing, bada boom.

All right, I'm getting out of here. Enjoy, we'll see you on the app.