The Ramsey Show - Face the Debt You’ve Been Avoiding

Episode Date: February 6, 2026

💵 ⁠⁠⁠Ask Ramsey: Real Ramsey answers, powered by AI.⁠ Rachel Cruze and Dr. John Delony answer your questions and discuss: “Should we file bankruptcy due to the $350k my husband lost day trading?” “How do I start to tackle my debt?” “Should I use a VA loan to buy a home?” “I feel like I’ll never be able to buy a house” “Should I cash out my whole life policy?” “Should I slow down the baby steps to deal with my chronic illness?” “How do I buy out my “manchild” ex-husband from our house?” “Should I use a debt relief company or an attorney to settle my tax debt?” “How do I convince my fiancé to be financially independent from his family?” “My wife isn’t involved in our finances. Is that a problem?” “Should we cash out our annuity?” Next Steps: ✔️⁠⁠ ⁠Help us make the show better. Please take this short survey.⁠⁠⁠ 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 weekdays from 2–5 p.m. ET or⁠⁠ ⁠send us an email⁠⁠. 💵 ⁠⁠⁠Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app!⁠⁠ 💻 ⁠⁠Need help with your taxes? See who we trust.⁠⁠ 🚢 ⁠⁠Cruise with Ramsey: Save $300 this week only! 🔥Microhabits for a better marriage. Download the Together app.  Connect With Our Sponsors: Get 10% off your first month of ⁠⁠BetterHelp⁠⁠ Go to ⁠⁠Boost Mobile⁠⁠ to switch today! Go to⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Casper Sleep⁠⁠ and use promo code RAMSEY to learn more If you want your car to keep going and going, trust ⁠⁠Christian Brothers Automotive⁠⁠. Find a local shop and get an exclusive Ramsey discount of 10% off Learn more about⁠⁠ Christian Healthcare Ministries⁠⁠ Get started today with⁠⁠ Churchill Mortgage⁠⁠ Get 20% off when you join ⁠⁠DeleteMe⁠⁠ Go to⁠⁠ FAIRWINDS Credit Union⁠⁠ for an exclusive account bundle! Debt collectors hassling you? Take back control of your life at ⁠⁠Guardian Litigation Group⁠⁠ Find top health insurance plans at ⁠⁠Health Trust Financial⁠⁠ Use code RAMSEY to save 20% at ⁠⁠Mama Bear Legal Forms⁠⁠ Visit⁠⁠ NetSuite⁠⁠ today to learn more Get started with ⁠⁠YRefy⁠⁠ or call 844-2-RAMSEY Visit⁠⁠ Zander Insurance⁠⁠ for your free instant quote today!   Explore more from Ramsey Network: 💸 ⁠⁠The Ramsey Show Highlights⁠⁠ 🧠 ⁠⁠The Dr. John Delony Show⁠⁠ 🍸 ⁠⁠Smart Money Happy Hour⁠⁠ 💡 ⁠⁠The Rachel Cruze Show⁠⁠ 💰 ⁠⁠George Kamel⁠⁠ 🪑 ⁠⁠Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman⁠⁠ 📈 ⁠⁠EntreLeadership⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Brought to you by the Every Dollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. This is The Ramsey Show. And I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Dr. John Deloney. And we're answering your calls at AAA 8255-225. All right.

First up, we have Kate in Indianapolis. Hi, Kate. Welcome to the show. Hi, John and Rachel. Hello, hello. How can we help today? Yeah, so I'm a stay-at-home mom. I have a one-year-old and I have another baby due in July.

I've been married four years. And my husband just sat down with me in the last two weeks and revealed to me that he took out $350,000 in loans and he lost it all. He was using it to invest in day trading. Oh, my God. And so it was a real, real shock to me. I just would like some direction from you guys or some answers as to what you think I should do in all aspects. Should I get a job?

You know, marriage advice, stuff like that. God, Kate, I'm so sorry. When did you find this out? It was a little over a week ago. How did you find out? Did he come to you and tell you or did you find something? He came to me and told me. And I did discover that it has been going on our whole marriage.

I just found that out last night. So where was he getting these loans from? So my husband is a self-employed. He started his own business like two years ago. And he has, his business has done really well. And we would have been fine. Like our business was successful. He does excavation.

and I don't know, I'm still not at the bottom of, you know, the purpose of doing that. But anyway, his business was doing really well, and so that's why he was able to get such loans, if that makes sense. So he took out business loans? Yes. He told banks, I'm borrowing this money for my business, and then he day-traded it. So he committed a crime, too? I wasn't aware that was a crime. It's fraud.

Okay. If I go to a bank and say, hey, I want to, oh, I'm not. open a restaurant and they go cool and they give me money for my restaurant and I go day trade it yeah that's fraud I'm not sure if it's a business loan I just know he has three loans and I know the names of the places he has them through so you don't know if it's like a personal loan or a small business loan I know that some of them are I think they're I mean they'll all be personal yeah yeah but you're not taking it out on the business to John's point okay um gosh kate uh How much do you guys make a year?

He pays himself as a W-2 employee with his company, and he, 60,000 a year is how he does it. Jeez. Okay. We will be filing bankruptcy in March. It's not even optional. There's no way out. Yeah. Have you guys spoken to an attorney?

We have. And that was the question I had. Should I get a job? My husband doesn't think it's in my best interest to get a job because he thinks it actually might hurt the situation more than help it. Because you're what, like showing more income or something? Because we file our taxes jointly and so he thinks it's going to increase our household income. Dude, you're so far past that situation. Here's what you have.

Here's what getting a job would do for you right now. Like the world you knew as of like two weeks ago doesn't exist anymore. The integrity of the man you. anchored your life to doesn't exist anymore. And like you owning that reality is really important. I understand that. And taking money advice and well, it's going to bracket us from the person that just did that. That's like your spouse cheating on you and then giving you dating advice.

You know what I mean? I'm like I'm not taking that kind of advice from you in this moment right now. Well, you guys are much smarter and wiser than I. So what do you have to decide? I'm not sure. We call it financial infidelity. Yeah. Yeah.

So Kate, if I were you, I would be separating everything right now because this part of your marriage no longer has trust. Right. And John can talk about what it looks like to rebuild that. But for you and you're expecting, right, a baby? Correct. Yes. And I already have a one-year-old. Yeah.

Probably, like what I would probably do today is, I would go down to the bank and get a separate checking account. And when he pays himself, I would split at 50-50 and just have your own money in an account for right now. And then you guys need to look at what it looks like going forward because for you, what John's saying, is like creating safety for you, Kate, is what I'm looking for here in a financial situation. Now, you having a baby and being pregnant like that, I mean, it does. It adds so many complexities because you go and put the kid in daycare. and try to get a part-time job. I mean, realistically, like, you know, probably not.

Like, daycare's going to cost as much as, you know what I mean? I know how expensive that stuff is. So looking at it, so what I would do probably right now is I would tell him, I need 50% of the paycheck and I'm having my own accounts because you need to start rebuilding your own side of the finances and marriage. And then unless you guys can get to a point where you are, rebuilding your marriage and the trust of the money comes after all of that. But you're going to probably be in a holding pattern for a bit. And I wouldn't, I would want every login information.

I would have every account. I would freeze his credit so he can't go and borrow more. Free years, freeze yours too. Your child's too. People take out loans and their kids names and commit fraud that way. And the things that are. And the things. with what he's done, and I don't, obviously, we don't know him, but, and John, you probably could speak this way better than I could. But when you find yourself in a hole that deep, you almost become great, like you start to like make decisions that aren't even rational to, out of the freak out of trying to get yourself out of this much of the mess. You go into survival. You're not thinking anymore. Yeah, there's no rational. So, so him like borrowing money. It's not excuse,

but it's a context. Yeah. So like him taking money out on one year old, most people are like, that would be crazy. I'm like, yeah, but he would be in that desperate situation that he'd probably go and do things like that, right? So you're just trying to, at this point, I would put as much protection around yourself from a cash flow perspective that's realistic and that he can't tap into anything else. And I would, yeah, I mean, I would make sure you have every login account. Do you guys have, I mean, do you have investments? I mean, all, like, when you file bankruptcy, they're going to be taking it so much. Like, do they. You're talking about like your, like what investments as far as?

Like 401K, Roth IRAs. Do you guys have any of those? He does. Okay, so I have one, but it's just in my name, so they're not going to touch it because all the loans are in his name, not mine. So I would have, I would even get just the login information on all of that. Like, do you know, I would get as much information as you can to have access to what you need to get to if the time comes. And you just explained it. You learned something two weeks ago and then you found something out last night. I think I can probably count on one hand the number of times somebody has come forward with a spouse and said, hey, I screw it. up. I've been cheating. I screwed up with our money. I haven't been employed for a year,

whatever. And they get the whole story the first time out. So for you, I would guess that I would, I would predict that there are going to be waves of you uncovering and finding things out. And so the conversation you begin with your husband starts like this. You husband have burned our trust to the ground. For the next seven days, here's a roadmap that I want you to follow that we can start practicing in teeny tiny, tiny little ways to rebuild trust. I want every login. I want our credit reports. I want my own checking account.

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It's the most thorough and affordable plan out there. I even have it for my family and our entire team at Ramsey. Visit zander.com or call 800. 35642.82. Up next, we have Marshall in Kansas City. Hi, Marshall. Hi, how are you? We're doing great. How can we help today?

I have about $50,000 in debt and about a $92,000 mortgage. And I have a little bit in savings because my wife had some medical issues that we are still waiting on the bills on. So I didn't know the best way to handle the upcoming bills that we don't know the totals on. Okay, what's the medical issue? What's going on? She's having some heart issues. So she's seen the cardiologist and other things like that. Okay. How much you guys have saved for that? I have $8,000 in savings right now. Okay. And are you guys at the beginning of this, or these will be kind of final medical bills once they hit?

It's still going on. She's still seeing the doctors. Okay. The 50K in debt, can you break that down for me? What each? That is $18,000 on a truck and $32,000 in student loans. Okay. How much you guys make a year? Right now she's in nursing school. I don't know yearly, but I make $864 a week. Okay, so what do you guys bring home a month?

What hits your checking account each month? Almost $4,000. $4,000. Okay. Okay. I mean, honestly, Marshall, just, just seeing everything right now, I would sell the truck. Okay.

Yeah. How much could you get for it, do you think? Maybe 30. You could get 30 for it? Probably. Oh my gosh, all day. It's pretty new. I've been paying a lot extra on it every month.

I could probably have it paid off in the next six months. You could get it paid off in the next six months? If I had depleted the savings and I also have $10,000 in retirement that I was told I could pull out. No, no, no, no, no, no, don't do that. Yeah, I would not. I wouldn't touch retirement to pay off consumer debt. So I would leave, leave that $10,000 there. That's not worth the truck at this point.

Okay, because she's also in school right now and we'll start working come May when she graduates nursing school. In May. Okay, what will she, does she have any idea what she'll be making? 40-something an hour. But, I mean, that's assuming she doesn't have heart troubles and she doesn't have medical issues, right? Correct. Yeah.

Yeah. There's just a lot of what-ifs down the road. I would act on what you have in your hand right now. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, honestly, if you could get 30 for it, that's unbelievable. I mean, I would take it. And then, I mean, I would spend maybe five grand.

Five, six grand. Yeah, four grand, whatever you can, just to get something significantly cheaper, obviously. Okay. And then, yeah, I mean, and then out of that, you'll have probably 10-ish left over, eight to 10,000. and then throw that at the student loans, you know, and you'll be down to, at that point, probably 22 to 24,000, which is amazing.

Like, that's a significant jump going, you just basically cut everything in half debt-wise, yeah. And then if in 24 months, if she's making $40 an hour and you keep working hard, then go get it whatever truck you want, man. You can just write a check for it. Yep. Okay. Yeah.

I appreciate. Thank you. Yep, absolutely. Thanks, Marshall. All right, let's go to Joseph. in Columbia, South Carolina. Hi, Joseph. Welcome to the show.

Hey, guys. How are you doing? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help? So my wife, Talley, and I are moving to Columbia, South Carolina in mid-March. We're actually in Texas right now.

We want to buy a house on a VA loan, and we want to do this for two reasons. One, we want to start building equity on real estate, and in Columbia, it's cheaper to buy than is to rent in terms of money. mortgage. Here are the caveats. We still are $40,000 in debt between two cars and her subsidized student loans. And we do have around $16,000 in our joint brokerage and our high yield savings. But I was wondering if you guys have any advice moving forward for us.

Don't do anything you're about to do. Don't buy a home. You're going to hate art. You're going to be mad. that you call this. I know, because when broke people buy houses, they become broker is what happens. So yeah, the monthly payment may not be, but when the roof leaks and the water goes out and I mean, and then life starts happening as a homeowner, you guys have no money. Or put it this way, you're, you want to build equity on one side of the equation and at the exact same time, you're paying a fixed interest rate on a depreciating asset on two different cars on the other

side of this teeter, right? Right. Okay. So it's like, I want to fill the bathtub up really high and I just shot two holes in the back of it. Yeah. Okay. And so it's like getting your whole house and get your whole house in order. And then man, if you guys move focused with focused intensity, you'll be saving up and get a down payment in no time. Yeah. And moving to a new city anyways, Joseph, we always recommend just rent for a year just to get the bearings. I mean, I, you know, Columbia's high, it's such a great, it's such a great city. But I even think about Nashville. When I moved to Nashville, my wife and I rented for a year. Yes. There's so many different parts. neighborhoods and you're just like, okay, what side of the city do we live on? What does commute

look like? What does traffic look like? I mean, there's so many things to consider when you buy a home. I mean, that's such a long-term purchase and to rush into something in the name of building equity, right? It's the wrong approach is what's happening. You're kind of going from the other end. So, yeah, so you guys moving, rent for a year. How much will you guys be making? So between the two of us, we make about 160 per year. Yeah, she makes about 75. I make about 90. Okay. Give her take, the year is good.

Will you make that same amount in South Carolina? Yeah. I mean, I work from home as a civil engineer, and she's in the Air Force. Amazing. Okay, so here's what I would do, Joseph, honestly. If I were you guys, do you guys have kids? No, not yet. No, okay. So, yeah, I would go, go to Columbia. I would rent for a year. I would take my six $16,000 and I would throw it at the smallest debt. What do you owe on the cars? So I owe about $20,000 on my truck, and she owes about $15,000 to a Navy federal loan we took out for a used alas.

Okay. And then what's the student loans? I think it's about $10,000. $10,000 there. Okay. So, yep, so I would throw $10,000 of the student loans tonight, just get those knocked out completely. And then you'll have $5,000. I want you to keep $1,000 as an emergency fund.

Take her car down to $10,000. Okay, so then you guys have $30,000 and left in debt. And what I would do is you guys make $160. I would live on $60, like live on nothing. Like get a crappy one-bedroom apartment, have no lifestyle. And you would $100,000, right? So you go, I mean, of course, this is before taxes. But the idea is that you pay off all the debt.

you'll have $70,000. Part of that will be an emergency fund, and then part of that's an amazing start to a down payment. And then you do that even for not even one more year, six more months and get at least a 5% down payment, and I would avoid the VA loan. There's so many fees. It's not a great option.

So I would just do a traditional mortgage, 15-year fixed-rate mortgage, and put at least 5% down on a home. And I think, Joseph, you can do all of this in 18 to 24 months, pay off all your debt, get an emergency fund, get a down payment, and I promise you the piece you will have

doing that having no payments no debt, no risk a fully funded emergency fund heading into home ownership like that is so much more of an enjoyable process than having two car loans student loans

not a ton of savings that could be wiped out in a second and you know what I mean and you're just living on the edge there so yeah that's what I would do sure thanks guys yeah absolutely thanks for the call you had to tell two people

I don't know if they're going to do it. Neither of them are going to do it. No, no, I wouldn't tell them to sell it. They can pay theirs off. Yeah. Joseph can. Yeah. Yeah, because they'll get hers down to 10 and then they have his $20,000 truck, but they make $160. I mean, they can. They can. You're always about selling stuff. No, I just don't. I think when somebody gets their mindset on, I'm going to buy a house no matter what. He's going to. It's so hard to back up and say, I'm going to do that, but in two years. Yes. And it's so hard on this side of the equation to be like, I'm telling you that 24 months is so worth it. It's so worth it. It's so worth it. And it's almost like someone has to go through it. And then their car that they owe a payment on breaks down and they roll that negative equity.

And they're going to call us back in two years. And they're going to be like, man, I should have listened. I know. Yeah. Joseph, you may not take the advice, but I'd implore you. Bro, you are like 18 months away from changing your life forever in a positive direction. Hang in there, man. Tax season is coming up fast, which means a lot of you are paying more attention to your money

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Well, we know that through work here, surveys, studying people, all the situations. What are you talking about? There are so many people, though, in their marriages that are frustrated, they're overwhelmed, they're lonely, and we have the answer for you. We've got it. We've got the whole answer, yeah. And let me say this, for years, I pushed back on this. I said, I don't think we could get something that would help in the way that, I think people need help.

And the zeros and ones guys here, we all got, we've been working for a couple years now. And what they've come up with is unbelievable. It's unbelievable. So we have a new app, John Deloney has a new app out. Yeah, it's called the Together app. And it's in the Apple store, Android folks take 30% off. We're going to make one for you. We're working on it.

But it's cool. But right now it's in the app store. And it is incredible. It's micro habits for your marriage. It will text you, or not text you, but it will walk with you on daily habits. And it will learn you and you get to decide what avenue you want to take, where you want to focus on, whether you got small kids, whether you're dealing with mental load, whether you've got a partner who's just completely unplugged, like all of it. And it is incredible. It's so good.

And here's my favorite part. Besides that, it's awesome. My favorite part is we walked into this thing knowing that everybody's struggling financially. And so instead of saying we want to do all of this stuff and it's going to cost $100 million, we started with it cannot be more than $6 a month for both of you. And so this app works. If you are the only one working on your marriage, it works with just one player mode. But you can bring your spouse along for no extra charge.

And so it's a cup of coffee a month to literally. transform your marriage. Not in big fireworks shows, but in daily micro habit change. And the feedback has been astounding. It's been awesome. You guys have had people thousands and thousands of people we've been testing it. In the amount of tweaking and doing, I mean, all of it. It's amazing. Yeah. And what's so funny is it, it is an app

so you're on your phone, but it gets you off your phone in order to do it. The purpose is to get off your phone and actually not think about, go do this thing. Action-based. For your spouse, for your marriage, for you. And it's transformational. It's called the Together app. You can search the Together app in the app store. And it's a cup of coffee a month. And you can bring your spouse with you for the same price. And let me just say this too, John. It is for couples that are struggling. But it's also for those that are like, hey, we just want, we need a reminder. How do we just like level up? How do we just

become more intentional? Right. So even if you're not like in this like, oh gosh, we're in a terrible place, you get it because what it does is it remind you. It keeps things to top of mind for you. And it actually gives you creative ideas. Yeah. And I'm glad you brought that up. The most common thing I hear from couples is we've become co-managers of our house. Yes. Right. We are passing each other in the night with soccer schedules and budgets and both of us are working too much. And this is a tool to help you all laser in and refocus on why y'all even liked each other in the first place. That's right. And it gets you out of your head and into action and it gets you off your phone, which is

which is my favorite part of it. So great. So, yep, go to the Apple Store and download it today. It's the Together app. All right, let's go to Travis in San Antonio. Hi, Travis. Welcome to the show. Hi, how are you guys doing?

Hi, we're doing great. How can we help? So, oh, man, where to begin? See if I can summarize this quickly. Basically, we had an emergency. We were renting from my grandpa. My baby got lead in her blood, so we had to vacate quickly. She's okay. We caught it in time. Thank God. But we're living with the in-laws and have been for about six months now.

And, you know, I know that throws red flags for people when I talk about it, but it hasn't been terrible. But now it's getting to the point where we're really just itching for our own space. Sure. And we're not really sure what next steps to take. I've been working my way through Baby Step 3 trying to get to a $20,000 emergency fund. that's three to six months expenses for us roughly, and that's me being extremely hard on myself. I was trying to consider, you know, roughly $1,000 a month for a potential payment on something. Is that stupid? Is it stupid?

I mean, I don't think so. It depends on, I mean, how much margins do you guys have? How much do you make a month? I make roughly $3,900 a month. and my wife stays at home. She doesn't work. We have no debts. And I'm out about $4,000 in the emergency fund,

but we're nearing that threshold of desperation where we really just want our own space again. Sure. No, I hear you. So in your area, would you guys be able to find something for $1,200? dollars? Maybe. We're looking

we're looking at rent homes but my boss is also offered he has offered me a owner finance situation. No, no, no, no, no, don't do that. Don't do that. See, and that was what I thought too.

Because then if something happens and you lose your job, you lose your house, you lose that, just don't do that. Don't go down that. Don't cross those streams like the Ghostbusters, dude. Okay. Let your boss just remain your boss. Yeah, okay. I'm glad you guys Yeah.

It's a generous offer. I'm sure he's trying to help you out, but don't tangle things up even further that way because untangling that just becomes a nightmare. Okay. Travis, what do you do for a living? I work in doors and hardware. I do, you know, we do like commercial, like for schools and stuff. Okay, okay. And do you have kids? I have one daughter. She's, yeah, she's about a year old. Okay.

So for you guys, I mean, if you're looking to move out, we always say that your rent should be no more than 25% of your take home pay or your mortgage. And so for you guys, I mean, that's a thousand to 1,200, right, if you kind of go a little bit above that. So I would want to stay within those parameters, which means you're going to have 3,000 left to live on. Have you guys done a monthly budget? Do you know what you're – well, I guess, I mean, you obviously don't have rent or you. utilities and all of that. But I would kind of do a mock budget and just say, okay, if we were to move somewhere, what do we think everything's going to cost? And list out everything you guys spend money on in the month and see if you can get it within that, I mean, it has to be within the

$3,000. Ideally, it would be less than that so that you can continue to save and get your emergency fund built up. Because you guys have, what, $4,000 in there, you said? Roughly, yes. Okay. After living with your in-laws for six months, how have you only been able to save $4,000? Well, there were some complications for, like, my wife had some medical stuff. She had to deal with postpartum. Okay. Great. I'm glad you're able to take care of that stuff. That's good. Yeah, yeah. And then there's been, like here and there, I've had to buy new work boots and new tools because I just started in this job less than four months ago.

Oh, wow. Do you see a raise coming anytime soon, Travis? There's potential for one. This company's fair. new, so we're growing. Okay. And I think I'm just trying to find my groove within the ranks, so speak. Are you 40 hours with them? I'm close to 50 hours, but I'm salary. I make roughly about 900 a week.

Okay. And like I said, my wife doesn't work, but I'm also starting to take on side jobs because I'd really like to start my own business. Yeah, that's great. Honestly, you'll probably make, you know, if you get that going, you'll probably make more than what you're doing now, which is awesome. Rachel, tell me if I'm wrong here. what I hear with you brother is

like simply put you all have a math problem okay and you're you have a value in your home that you want your wife to stay at home you all want her to stay at home you want to work with this new company and get them off the ground and you're working 50 hours a week

but you're just I mean you're making about as much as if you went to become a manager at a Starbucks and so like you're not making 50 grand a year right? Right, no, not quite. And so you've got these competing values that y'all are trying to stretch out, but the math is y'all can't afford to live out on your own, which tells me you and your wife have to go back and say,

okay, which one of these values that we've laid out, if for six months, for one year, for two years, we're going to pause on so that we can get ahead for the future. But this is moments when people make desperate situations. Yeah, this is where the baby stays with the in-laws, and she works for three. days a week. Yeah, totally. I mean, you find ways to earn this, especially to get you guys to appointment that you have your emergency fund. And by that time, hopefully you've gotten a few

raises and time has passed and your income's gone up. Some good side hustle jobs. Yes, but in the meantime, John's right. You guys have an income problem, Travis. So a creative way to fix that is what I'd be looking for. Owning a business can be a heavy load. You want to serve your customers well. Make a healthy profit and grow. And your team, family, and customers are all counting on you. And now everybody's talking about AI like it's magic. And you're wondering how to keep up. You're carrying a lot, but you don't have to do it all alone. That's where NetSuite comes in.

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And yeah, switching systems is a big move. But NetSuite's sweet success process gets you up and running fast. Go to NetSuite.com slash Ramsey for a free product tour and to schedule time with a net suite wrap. That's netsuite.com slash Ramsey. So there's certain elements of money that I would say each of us as hosts have a thing that we're just like, that is so annoying. Like whatever it is, right? Dave's is always people that can't find a job. He's always like, I don't know how people don't work for six months. Like I'd go, I'd go like cut yards. Like I would do something, right? Like he like, we all kind

of have our thing. My thing, for some reason, John, more and more and more, it's sports betting. I find it so annoying Like I hate it You find it annoying It is like it is getting under my skin more and more Why? The bros that and all the app Now that I know I'm like we're watching football

And it's like every commercial Is an app for sports betting The amount of money that's going into it And the target audience is a bunch of freaking Like 20, 30 year old dudes For the most part They have a chart And I'm just like

And they're all complaining that they can't afford house And I'm like oh my gosh Like, y'all are annoying. It's annoying. I hate it. The sports betting world. And so. I hate it because it's predatory.

Yes. And I hate it because of the way the playbook is just, it's like an old school after school special. Like the first joint is free. Right. And it's like your first bets are free. It's like it's such an old school playbook, but it's so predatory. Rope you in. Yeah.

And you keep betting. And then they prop bet you. It's like, hey, will his shoe find? all off in the fourth quarter and you can't get it just latches into every nook and cramp people get in such trouble with it and that's what's so frustrating that's why i hate it because it's like i love i love watching the fights with somebody and they're like dude should i put 10 bucks on it i love that that's funny that's like a thing that's like old school just like hey we're sitting around i bet on a horse for steeple chase like five bucks on yeah the when it becomes goes from fun to hey i bet we can

make a bunch of money to I bet we could get a whole generation hooked on this to the tune of billions and billions of dollars. And then we talk to their spouses who have lost everything or we talked to them and they can't go to school. They can't like get a job. It's so destructive. Yes. Nah, I hate it. Oh, okay. So as the Super Bowl is approaching, an article came out in ESPN and said that approximately $1.76 billion is expected to be bet on the Super Bowl this year. It's the highest. It's a 27% increase year over year. So it's getting worse and worse. $1.7 billion in sports betting for the Super Bowl. I'm like, I think we could like cure clean water. Like I feel like we could use this money and like help a lot of people. You don't

mean. I'm just like, oh, or help your families. Help yourselves. I don't know. So much good could be I just, I can't do it. Yep. And Bill Miller, who's the president of AGA, said, that no single event brings fans together like the Super Bowl. And this record figure shows just how much Americans enjoy sports betting as a part of the experience. That's like, that's like, Bill. Sitting outside of a methadone clinic and being like, nothing brings people into a long line. It just shows, it's like so not true. Not true.

The destruction and all of it. And all the, I'm like, oh my gosh, please take your money and fund your Roth IRA, 27-year-old, please. Yes. Take half the money, buy some great nachos, and then put the other bit of that money. Pay your credit card off this month. Just say, I'm about to bet on the game. I'm going to pay my credit card off. I'm going to do something smart with my money.

Oh, sports betting, the bros. It used to be the crypto bros that bothered me. It's now the sports betting bros. I can't do it. The next segment, we'll talk about the women that drive me crazy. We can't. We won't. We for sure won't.

It's all the, yes. For sure, we won't. All the essential oils You know what I mean That's what you're always Everyone has their thing But the sports betting man Oh my gosh

Well bet the Super Bowl Yep Coming up Yeah we're gonna You're gonna see it Don't bet Don't bet on if you haven't already Save your money

Save your money All right let's go to Cincinnati We have Amber on the line Hi Amber, welcome to the show Hello how are you guys doing Hi we're doing great How are you? I'm doing well

I just had a question. I know you guys always talk about, you know, like whole life insurance policies and how they're not great. And some life insurance. Some life insurance policies. Okay. Term life is awesome. Yes, yes. Yes. So we have, we have a term life policy. And both of us have, you know, policies obviously through our employers too. And, you know, we've done a good job with the term life, making sure we have kids and making sure that they're taking care of. God forbid, something would happen. But the question I have is, My husband was, I guess you could say gifted. A family member when he was a little kid bought him a whole life insurance policy. And he still has it. I think the value of it is like $40,000 or $50,000 or something like that if something would happen. And he's never paid anything for it.

Now what's happening is the annual premium, which looks like it's about $88 or something like that. It just comes out of the interest that's earned. So he's just kind of kept it. I go the route of, well, do we cash it out and then, you know, invest it, you know, or, I mean, heck, even, you know, in our high-yield savings account, the money's there. You know what I mean? Yes, yes. I guess we're having that constant debate on what is the right thing to do with this. And I think he's going on the cautious side, but I'm like, we have term life.

We have life insurance through our, you know. Yes. Yeah, you're covered. How long is your term life? Four. What's the policy for it? It goes all the way up until we both retired. Okay. At that point, we will be in a good situation that, I mean, our kids will be graduated from college. You know what I mean? We'll be in a different situation. Cash it out today. Yeah. Cash it out today. You were right. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Your hunch was right.

You can tell your husband that we said you were right. Okay. That felt good, Amber. I would cash out for the end of the day. Yeah. And you'll just forfeit the death benefit and all of that, but you'll, and you'll pay some taxes and all of it. But what you get out of it, though, literally, if you just put that in the market, and we don't know what the market's going to do this year. But, I mean, in the past few years, some years, it's been like 20 percent. Like, it's crazy what the returns have been in there. And like you said, or even sitting in a high-yield savings account earning three and a half percent. Like, anything is better than this, because what they sit there and do is try to mix

your investments and insurance, and they try to bundle it all together. And it actually is, even though y'all aren't necessarily paying for it here that you're paying out of the interest. but it's expensive, it's a horrible investment. You could be making so much more out in the market. And so I would. I would take this 40 grand for sure. Drop it into like an index fund or go to Vanguard or, you know, put it in a... I like it.

You put it in a high-old savings account. Like the way you were thinking about it is the way I would think about it. Yeah. I'm just thinking that extra cushion. Yes. We have a cushion, but even more cushion. Yes. And then it would be something you could actually use.

They dangle that death benefit out in front of you. and then they take your money and they invest that in the market and then they make the spread. I think his thing is always just God forbid something would happen to him. He wants to make sure that he and the boys are taking care of.

Yeah, he has term life insurance. Is that $50,000 going to change your life? If he passed away today, would that $50,000 be what makes or breaks you? No, I mean, the term is going to pay for the house. There you go. You know, pay for everything. I mean, we've got plenty.

and we don't owe anything besides just a little bit left on our house. Okay, how old are you guys? How old are you, Amber? I'm 47. 47, okay. I'm just doing a quick calculation. If you just put it in right now, just in the market, and you just didn't touch it until you were 67,

it'd be $435,000. And that's not adding anything. That's just put it, like what John said, if you just moved it from one account to the other today, and then just left it. You got almost half a million in there. Well, and typically, I guess this is the debate we keep going on. He goes, well, it is making money.

You know what I mean? And I'm like, well, like, what? He's had it since he's a child. Yeah, for the steward. He's had it since he's a child. You know, it's only $40,000. It is making money. It's making money for them.

Not for y'all. Because how old is he? True. How old is he? He's 52. Okay. And when did they open this? when he was like two years old?

I have no clue. But seriously, think about that. Let's say he did. Let's say they did. Because a lot of family members will do this. A grandparent or someone will, a child is born. I think it was more like later in life. You know what I mean?

Like maybe a teenager or something like that. Let's just say, yeah, 12 years old. 40 years. It's $40,000. It's terrible. It's shameful that someone would call that an investment product and look at you and say, you're going to be winning here. In 20 years, you'd have almost half a million, right?

It is a rip-off. Whole life insurance, you guys, it's terrible. It is terrible. So get term, what you guys have, Amber. It's inexpensive. You get it, you set it, 15, 20 years, whatever you need. And then whatever you would have paid for whole life, just invest the difference there, and you're going to come out spades ahead.

So, yeah, Amber, you are right. I'm happy to say it. So there you go. Most people just drift through life with their money. No plan, no budget, stuck on autopilot. But winning with money is intentional. That's why I love Fair Wins Credit Union. They've built tools for people who don't want gimmicks or games.

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So if you're ready to stop drifting and start building wealth on purpose, open your smart bundle today at fairwinds.org slash Ramsey. That's fairwins.org slash Ramsey, insured by the NCUA. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm Rachel Cruz, hosting today with Dr. John Deloney. So give us a call at AAA 8255-225. Up next, we have Cameron in Phoenix, Arizona. Hi, Cameron. Welcome to the show. Hi, we're doing great. How good? How good? Can we help today? So I am $74,000 in debt, and I have two jobs.

And I used to be $131,000 debt two years ago, and I'm 74. Look at you, girl. That's like $60,000. I know. I know. It's been really hard. I was diagnosed with Crohn's disease a year ago. Oh, my gosh.

And it's been kind of getting worse over the last couple of months. and I'm trying to figure out should I keep working. I've been working my butt off paying about $2,000, $2,500 every month towards the dad. And I'm struggling to work. Like I'm having issues every day. And I love what I do. Like, I love both my jobs. My bosses are amazing.

Yeah. And I just want to show that everyone's been telling me, you should work class, she should work class. And I just, I don't know what to do, honestly. Yeah, what do you do for, what are your two jobs? So my first job, I'm a claims associate, and then my second job, I'm a retention specialist for a middle-sized insurance agency. Okay, okay. Which job pays the most? My nine to five, my claims role.

Your claims, okay. And then how much overtime are you working with the other job? I don't get overtime. I only get salary. And then I get 21 an hour at my second job. Or doing the other one. Okay, okay. And how many hours do you work that extra?

extra job. So I work an additional. So I work from anywhere between 16 to 22 hours every week. With them on top of the 40. So you're working 60 hours. Karen, this is going to sound bananas. Can I tell you I'm proud of you? Not for working yourself to where you have like a chronic illness. Not that. But like you've been working really hard doing whatever it takes. And I want to applaud you. Thank you. That's pretty impressed. It's really, really impressive. Are you single? It's been so hard.

I know. I am engaged. Okay. And I've been working so hard. I also have been down on bipolar disorder, and I've been doing all the work going to therapy. Good. Doing my psychiatrist, doing all the medications.

And that's been extremely commotious as well. And the hardest part is that sometimes the Crohn's medicine messes with the bipolar medicine. and it's just been really hard. Everyone's just telling me, work less, work less. But I'm like, I want to be debt-free. And they're like, you should live, you should live. And I'm just like, I just don't want to have any of this debt. Well, there's a middle ground there.

There's a middle ground. When people say, you should just live, like, often people have in their mind, like, beach vacation and just eat whatever you want. Right, I'm going to ask what that means, yes, yes. For you, just live means, like, I want the world to hear your story. and I especially want this guy who's won the lottery getting to marry you and your community who gets to interact with you, you're close to like pushing your body over a threshold where it says I quit. And so I want you just to live.

Like I mean that for real. Do you what I'm saying? Not yolo, but I want you to be healthy and okay. This is really hard. I know. I would much rather you take six. months and just work one of the jobs, even if you have to take a medical leave or whatever, take six months and exhale so that you can come back stronger.

I've met with guys who train Olympic athletes, and they say the hardest part about training an Olympic athlete is getting them to rest, getting them, let their bodies recover, and your body is systematically saying, hey, we can't, this is, this is a heavy, heavy load. And so I want to applaud you for going all in. and I also want to hear me I want you to hear me and Rachel say how proud of you we are and we want you to listen to your body

so that you can cross the finish line, not in a casket to be frank, but cross the finish line with your arms held high, right? It's just so hard because I just I know I'm I just want to take responsibility and get it done and I just I used to blame, before I used to

blame everyone else about all my problems and when I finally figured out that I was the you know the problem I started to I just wanted to start working on it. So every day. Oh, you are. You are. You are.

And it just feels. But taking some time to make sure your body's healthy, that is continuing, that's you continuing to take ownership of you. Yeah. And Kimmer, I do want to give you that permission that, you know, people that call in and they have, you know, even a child who's sick and their attention has to be on that or themselves. Like, there are moments to pause baby step two, to take care of yourself or someone around

you, okay? So that is what we tell people, okay? Getting out of debt is very important, but it's not literal life and death. We make it sound like that on the show a lot because we want to be so extreme for being able to get it. But it's really, you don't need me. Taking care of Cameron is really important. And I'm not worried about you being lazy or not doing anything, right?

You're not calling us up being like, I work 15 hours a week and it's just too much. No, you want to work one 50 hour a week job. Good grief. Yes. Right? That's awesome. I mean, like, you're doing great. And if you need to just, and I know it's frustrating because you're, you have momentum.

And what's hard to Cameron, I can hear it is like mentally, you are so strong. You're like, I see this and this is what I want. My mind wants to go here, but my body's not letting me. And it's usually the opposite for people. Their body able to do whatever, able-bodied, but they don't have the mindset. But you got it, girl. So taking care of your body is not going to ruin this whole thing. It's not.

It's just, I'm so, I'm so scared to just losing that extra income to you. Like, just I haven't, I've been doing it for so long and paying so much. It's just I'm scared to you because my bills feel like they're so high even. Like, I just like I've so much. And I just, when I look at my budget, I'm like, okay. So I will only have like a thousand left if I just have my main job and I wouldn't be able to put, and that's all I would have after bills. Sure.

Like I want to. What's left, Cameron, of the, of the 74. thousand. What kind of debt is it? So I have about $5,000 of credit cards left. Two personal loans. They're about, one is $2,600. The other is $6,000. Okay. What's at $4,800. Excuse me. I've been paying double the payment for it. Then I have a car. So I have a Tesla Model Y. I pay those. that's 25,000. Okay. And then I have two repos that are on my credit that I've been wanting to get settled there.

One is 19,000. The other is 13. And then that's it. Okay. And that's all I have right now. Okay. Are you said... I'm sorry.

I arrest that of 5,000. Oh, okay. Okay. We may move that up to the front. just to get that out of the way. Have you, are you, you said you're paying extra on that personal loan of the $6,000. Are you paying extra on everything? Everything.

So I'm putting, so for my loan for the IRS is 131, but I pay $300 every month. Okay. So what I want you to do, Cameron, I want you to list back out all of your debts. And I want you to just do, if you just said the minimum payment on everything, and you put everything towards the IRS debt. I want that momentum to be building because you're kind of spreading everything out, which is amazing. you've done a fantastic job.

I just want more intensity focused on each one. And so pay minimum payments on everything and pay the smallest one off first. And you got this, Cameron. We are here. Call us back if you need any more help because we are cheering you on. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Sometimes it seems like everyone else's love life is this perfect little hallmark movie. Here's the truth.

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help h-elp.com slash Ramsey all right let's go to Philadelphia and we have Janelle on the line. Hi Janelle Hi Rachel Hi John, how are you guys? Hi we're doing great. How can we help today? So I am currently

going through a divorce and my question is what would be the best way to buy my ex man child spouse out of my home? Shots fire. Just a burn. Oh, my gosh.

You talk about sports betting. Oh, is he one of those? It's typical. Sports betting, marijuana, video games. Stop it. What have you been married. What a man child. We were married for six years.

When I met him, he was working full time, I started going to nursing school, and I kind of continued. I went for my bachelor's. And then along the course of, I think, our third kid, like, When our third kid came, I figured it would be easier for me to pick up an extra shift or to as a nurse than have him work. So I regretted me. I'm regretting having him become a stay-at-home dad because that was like the end of it. And every time I asked him to start working again afterwards, there was an excuse.

And now we're at this point. And he kind of hit the jackpot. Let me free you from this. You didn't cause that in him. Okay? Don't hold that. That's a man. That's a father of three kids choosing to not get up and co-support his family.

Yeah. I was actually, well, he's, not that you need to know this, but he actually adopted my oldest son. And so I, no, in the beginning, everything seems good. and I was getting out of a very abusive relationship who I had a child with. And it just kind of ended up, you know. We'll walk you through what to do with your money, but I want to set you free from that today. Thank you.

I really, I needed to hear that. Every husband, every father needs to go get a job. Yeah. I kept saying I was married to three people, him and him. my in-laws because anytime there was an argument, his mom would say, what's going? She would come to the house. It was just like it was the worst. You're not married to a man-child.

It's like an actual child child. I can't even make it up. Yeah. And yeah, and they're paying for his lawyer. And we're going to be going through custody battle. And he thinks he needs 50-50 custody, but he doesn't really support them. He works as a part-time janitor. As of the week he filed for divorce, he finally went back and got a job for four hours a day.

Well, all the text messages you've sent him over the years saying, please get a job. All that will come out in discovery. So just work out on that process here. Let's get you to the house. Tell us to your house situation. Yeah. Okay. So I have to buy him out because I was kind of guilted into putting his name on the house that I paid for.

He did not put a dollar towards, but marital debt. Yeah, totally. Well, and I'll give you that freedom, too, that we would tell people when you're married, right? even if one spouse stays home, you both, right? Yeah. So that was not, that was not wrong of you. Okay. I hear the frustration because you put.

It is frustrating. Yeah. But that was not necessarily a wrong move. Yes. Okay. Okay. Yeah. But to your point, he has that, he has 50% of that asset too.

Yeah. So I, we, we just went to this divorce hearing and I owe him about $48,800 and some dollars. Okay. The house is worth 255 out of, as of the last appraisal, and I owe 139 on it, or 138. Okay. So I have, so since this whole thing started, I've been, like, stacking up, I've been, I was hustling to, like, pay off a one of our personal loans, because I knew that was going to come up, and that would look good for me when this happened. So I paid off a $16,000 personal loan we had. as marital debt. I paid my lawyer over $10,000 and set aside about $18,000. So I have cash, and I don't know if

it's better. Oh, also I have to pay him alimony. So I have 15 and a half months of alimony, which is probably going to be about $1,000 a month when he moved out, which he hasn't yet. So should I save this cash as like just to lose my alimony payments or so I don't have to worry about that when the time comes. How much are you making a month? $6,000. Plus, so I'm a nurse practitioner. I bring home $6,000 a month, and I do have a side.

Dave would call it a hobby where I do like medical aesthetics, Botox and fillers. And I can bring home depending on how much I do it, like $1,000 to $6,000 a month. And I'm just doing it really part time because I have a kid. Oh, good. Could you, would you say like $2,000 would probably be average? just for calculation purposes? Yeah, yeah. It has been since I've started doing it about two years ago.

Good for you. Yeah, there's some cash in that. That's great. Good for you, you know. Okay. So how much will the mortgage be that you're, if you keep the house, how much will the mortgage be? Without the $48,000, but just in general, how much is the payment?

Well, it depends. I mean, right now it's $13.604 a month. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then if you add, well, I don't, should I, go ahead. Well, I was going to say if you add in that $48,000, if you buy him out and just tack that onto your mortgage, as long as that payment doesn't get up to $2,000,

which I don't think it, I don't think it will. I'm not able to do the calculations right here. But calculate it out to say, okay, if I add that $48,000 to the $138,000, calculate out what that mortgage payment would be because I don't want your mortgage payment to be more than 25% of your take-home pay, because at that point, Janelle,

you probably can't afford the house. But honestly, I think you might be okay. And especially if you kind of commit for a period of time to doing the side hustle stuff that you can. Because if that can bring in six grand a month extra, I'm like, holy grant. That was probably my best month. And it's... Well, even five grand, four grand. I mean, the two grand that I just calculated as like a rough, that's more on the conservative side.

But even a little bit of that. How much that you have in cash right now? I have about 18,000 to set of... side. But that's the thing. Should I, is it better to refinance the house or take out a healaw? I know you're not going to say he'll or I wouldn't do that. A personal loan for that. Normally we would say we would say don't borrow to buy your partner out. But like when it comes to homeownership, 48 grand is as a small number. Yeah. And if that payment is so low enough, I would be comfortable with that. Because I'll be honest, Janelle, I'd say 90% of the calls we get in the situation and the wife, the mom,

wants to keep the home, she can't afford it. Most of the time we tell them that they have to end up selling it. But honestly, with the numbers you're giving me, but I want you to recalculate it. If you just go to ramesysolutions.com, we have a mortgage calculator. You can kind of plug some of this stuff in. But again, I don't want your payment more than 25% of your take-home pay because you're going to have that. Then you're going to have alimony for 15 months. And some stuff is going to start stacking up.

And I don't want this house. I'm going to have to pay for child care too. Right. Yes. So I don't want this. Yeah. I don't want this house to be a burden, right? Like, it's not worth it.

It's worth having all the chaos you guys are going through to have peace. And I don't want financial stress on you, okay? One of the hardest things we have to tell folks in your situation on a regular basis is, I want you to put on the table as hard as this would be. What if I sold this house? Right. And I do in the future plan on doing that. If you plan on doing that, I would really think twice about,

doing it now. Okay. Because listen, what you're trying to do for you and the kids is to minimize the, how different your life is now. And I would go ahead and just metabolize. It's a hundred percent different. The life you had is over. And if you think from that, it sounds stark, right?

But if you sit, if you think, okay, the life I had is over, what do I want this new one to look like? Would I go buy this house with these memories and share that bed? At this price, probably not. Okay. Or would you go rent for a year? It's going to be inconvenient. You're going to have to call somebody to help you move.

It's going to be a huge pain in the butt. But I'm going to start off the scratch. Rent is going to be $2,400 minimum. Yeah, it'll be expensive. There's no question. Yeah. There's no question. That's where I thought about that too.

Yeah. So I think it's kind of making that call, Janelle, for you from that, from that perspective, from a mental perspective, do you want to be walking back in that front door every day? Right? Like, is that, how is that for you? and then do this calculation. So those are the two big questions that I want you to kind of discover on your own

and you can, but you're smart and gosh, I'm so sorry of what you're going through. You already know the power of generosity and the best gifts make an impact now and eternally. That's what pre-born does. And you can trust them to do it well. They don't just offer free ultrasounds. They support pregnancy clinics across the country

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download it in the app store or Google Play. All right, let's go to New Orleans and we have Brandy on the line. Hi, Brandy. Hi. Hello, hello. Welcome to the show. How can we help? Hi. I'm calling. I am an average listener. My husband, my on board. We are paying off debt. and we are like super a gazelle intense. Good for you guys. I'm excited. Good. I have a $96,000 tax debt left over from my late husband.

Ooh. Whoa. Yeah. Yes. Yes. And I went to a company in around June and started a fresh start program. What is that? Like a tax debt relief?

Exactly. Exactly. The name of the company is better tax relief. Oh, there we go. Right. How ironic. Shoot. Okay. Have you given them a bunch of money and you've made zero progress? No, I haven't made zero progress yet. I've given them half of the money that I needed. They were quoted me $15,000 and it was going to, they were going to get me into a hardship program. And it was called the Fresh Start program.

How much money do you make a year, Brandy? I make about 65, and I just recently got married in December. Together, we have not combined our checking accounts because of this IRS debt. Okay. How much does he make a year? I don't want them to see about 75. Okay. You don't want them to see his income is what you're thinking. Exactly.

I don't want them to get a hold of his checking account money. It's not on his checking account for that reason. We share our money. We pay the bills together. Sure. You know, but my name is not on his account because I don't want the IRS to go after his account. Can you get your money back from these folks? That I don't know.

How can we help you, Brandi? What do you need from us? Okay, so I contacted one of your people. I used to call him ELPs. Yes, one of our tax trusted pros, yep. Right. Okay. So I contacted one in Alabama.

He was the nearest one. and he's just a CPA and he's like he says I've heard of this place they have good reviews on Google. They have a lot of good reviews. My second question, my second part of my question was he recommended another tax attorney that is local to me. I live in Mississippi just outside of New Orleans, about 20 months outside New Orleans. So he recommended a tax professional, a tax attorney. When I contacted them, they quoted me $5,600 to take care of the situation to handle it from start to finish. Wow.

Okay. So I went back to better tax relief, and they knocked my fee down and said for the balance of about $5,000, they would finish the case and that they do have tax attorneys on staff. Yeah, but you're still just talking about fees. Have they talked about what settlement they've negotiated on this $96,000? They have not yet. Okay. I have all of my trust. I don't know this company, never even heard of them.

I have all of my trust. A tax attorney. I would look at incentives. When you hire an attorney, that attorney works for you. Okay. You are working for this other group right now. They're like the middle. You're basically paying the middleman.

Right. Yeah. And see, my husband's been saying, I've had a bad feeling about this since the beginning because I was, I was pressured. And I was like, oh, my God, they're going to come after me. You're going to come after me. $6,000. It's a lot of money. Right, right. You were scared.

You made a decision out of fear, right? I did. I did. And, yeah, totally. I don't know the process, but just personally sitting here, just as a dumb guy off the street, I'm stunned that after more than what seven months of working with a company, you don't have a relief number yet. You don't have a negotiated settlement yet. I don't. I don't have anything. That blows my mind. Yes. And how much, you said you've given them half of the 15? Half of the 15,000. And then they said they can do it for five, meaning the additional five, or are they going to pay you $2,000 back so that you have?

No, I would still have to pay another five to whichever one I choose to go with. If I choose to stay with better tax. Okay, because your original seven grand that you've paid them is just done. I don't know. I can see if I can. recoup any of that? I don't know about that. Okay. But I'm looking at $5,000 more to get an answer, but I think that, and here I need you just now just sold me. I'm going to go with the attorney's office. But I would call this company and I want a full accounting of what you have done for me for my $7,500 I've given you over the last seven months. I want every phone call logged. I want every message. I want every negotiated settlement

you've offered. I want to know what you've done for the last seven months. If you can't provide that, I want my money back. Because I think what they're doing is just trashing your credit. My credit's trashed. I'm not worried about that. Yeah. And then you don't have what I would see is

you don't have to do any moral slipperiness with, well, let's don't do his money and let's get somebody who can get in with the IRS, get a negotiated settlement. Get a dollar amount. And you'll probably put on a payment plan. You can put on a payment plan. We had to pay it off ASAP.

I'm really hoping for innocent spouse. But this company hasn't said that. And the attorney's office is like, we could go for innocent spouse. I don't see why you wouldn't get it. Right. See, this, okay. And Brandy, I mean, honestly, it's like working with an attorney, if you think about it. They've gone to school for this.

This is what they do day in and day out. They work for you. This relief company is like a who knows who opened it up. They make so much money. It reminds me not of a payday loan by any means, but it's all in that same bucket. These debt relief companies, they're a cash grab. They grab people in desperate moments. I mean, honestly, I hate it.

I mean, exactly you. I'm like, yes, we're freaking out. Like, my wages are going to be garnished. The IRS is after me. Help me. And then help debt relief companies right there with their sign. And you're like, that's what I need. There is no recourse for you if they call you back next month and say, well, we tried.

Nothing doing. They've kept your money. And you know what? Yeah, and that's just, that's it. That's right. So I think it's a stupid tax that you just knock it up to, if they don't pay you back, the $7,000. A great attorney is worth every single penny you pay.

Because they, it's like they take up a sword and a shield on your behalf, and they say, game on. And that's what you hire them for. Yeah, and even the term they just threw out to you, right? The innocent spouse. You're like, there you go. I can't believe it. I'm trying not to get angry on the phone.

I applied for innocent spouse. I applied for innocent spouse, but then the IRS shut down. the government shut down and that's hurting thing. Right. But then having an attorney on your side, right? That goes forward and tries again and all of it is worth every penny. Just thank y'all. Just thank y'all so much. We are doing so good and y'all just. So proud of you, Brandy. How much of you guys? I know this is the big debt you're looking at. How much have you guys paid off?

We had 140,000 and we're down to 72,000 since January of last year. Oh, my gosh. So we paid up about 70,000 in a year. Good for you guys. We plan to be debt free except for the house by the end of this year, with the exception of the IRS. We'll have that settled, hopefully. Okay, but settlement doesn't mean it goes away.

Settlement means they're going to come up with a number, right? Right, right. Well, I thought that the $15,000 was my settlement, and that was going to be paid off this year, too. I'm learning now that that was just their fee. Wow. Mm-hmm. Yeah, they swindled you.

Right. Yep. So that's a $7,000. steep attacks. That is, like, having sat with, having sat with widows, like, that makes me so enraged on your behalf. That someone would take somebody in that moment of pain, they just lost their ride or die, and then to find out there was a hundred grand they didn't know about, and then to come in and be like, oh, we got you.

Give me $15,000. I'll call you back in seven months, eight months. That's so enraging to me. Golly. You've worked too hard to get. get control of your money just to let strangers control your data. Think about it. Just about every time you sign up for a newsletter, grab a coupon code, or start a free trial, your personal info, like your name, email address, phone number, and more get scooped up and sold by data brokers. Here's the deal.

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Today's question of the day is brought to you by Y-R-R-FI. Defaulted private student loans don't fix themselves, but they can be fixed. Y-R-R-R-E-F-Y-F-Y-F-NANcing defaulted private student loans into a low fixed-rate payment that fits your budget so that you can clean up this mess and move forward with the plan. Visit Y-R-R-R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey. That's Y-R-E-F-Y. May not be available in all states. All right. Today's question comes from Caitlin. New York. Caitlin writes, My fiancé and I recently moved into a house together.

I am not on the mortgage, but I live here, and he pays the bills. His dad helped him buy the house, and my fiance pays his dad instead of a mortgage lender. On top of that, my fiance uses a credit card that's also paid for by his dad. Oh, geez. His dad is a big fan of yours and a very smart businessman. Sounds like a raving fan. loves us. But this is one thing he does opposite of what you advise.

When I bring up getting rid of the credit card or buying a house the right way, he gets defensive and upset. I don't know who if that's your father-in-law soon to be or your fiancé. What should be my first step to fix this problem? Rachel, I think this is as simple as you telling your fiancé that if we're going to get married, it's going to be our marriage, not, I'm not marrying your dad too, right? Like, we have to put some boundaries in place right now.

You're getting a very clear picture of what your future may look like if you go through with this, which is marrying a little boy in a grown-up man's body who's dad still pays his bills, his dad still tells him what to do, his dad still, the shadow of his father leans over your house.

And if this is, my sister, if this is my daughter, if this is my friend, I would say, I would draw some real firm boundaries. Yes. Yeah, because if you can't handle it during engagement, he's definitely not going to handle it well. Yeah, wait until you have a kid. Yes. So, yeah. Wait till you get a job in another state and daddy says you can't move. And even if it was a debit card and his dad's paying, you know, funding his checking account, also, so that's the issue, the dad, and then also the fact that debt is being woven through this entire picture. And if you're not okay with that, you guys have two separate values when it comes to money, which is a really big deal. I feel like a

shallow person and I'm always like, oh my gosh, money can ruin the relationship because it feels like, no, that should and love should conquer all. But the truth is, when like rubber meets the road and you guys day in and day out are dealing with your life, this is one of the biggest, the biggest issues in marriage that can cause so much conflict if you're not on the same page. So can it be done? It can, but it's just an exhausting uphill battle. And sometimes it's like you just fight and fight and fight and fight all day long about it. And it's, and it doesn't create peace in the household. But in this situation, what churns my stomach is, if you go to a mortgage lender to get a loan for a home, there is regulatory bodies that monitor that. There's agreements, there's contracts. Yes. Those things guide your relationship. Yes. In this situation, your future father-in-law owns y'all. He tells y'all what you're going to do, when you're going to do, because he is your bank, he is your lender, and I'm not having that because there's no regulations to that relationship other than what he feels that day.

Yeah, mixing family money. And also, I'll just say this, on behalf of the dad in this situation, I have a 15-year-old. You know what? I'm going to tell the story. Josephine and I, my daughter, she's 10, we went on a date the other day. Yeah. And after we got done eating, she said, dad, there's this cool dress shop. She didn't know this. It's the dress shop. It's anthropology.

Back in the old school, back OG anthropology, like I used to get my wife gift cards. When we had nothing, I would save up and save up and save up. And that would be like a Christmas present for her because I think their clothes are rat, right? Or they were back in the day. I don't pay attention. And we went in there and there was a dress that was obnoxiously expensive. And she lit up and she goes, can I try this on? and I was like, you can try that on.

And I was a hundred percent going to buy it. I mean, I was like, I'm buying that for sure. I totally buying that. Like, there's no reason financially. She can't wear it. She has a uniform at her school. I'm buying my daughter that dress. Yeah.

And, of course, it was like 17 sizes too bad. Right, right. I was going to say a little joke. Yeah, yeah. I get the sentiment as a parent of wanting to make sure I'm clearing the deck. I'm clearing the path for my kids as much as possible. I don't want them to struggle. I don't want him to have the same heartache I had.

I never, my dad wouldn't have had the money because he was a policeman. Like, he wouldn't have the money to buy me something, even if you wanted to. And I get the impulse to want to do that. We as parents have to understand that that impulse, when taken too far, hurts our kids. It's walking into the weight room, taking all the weight off the bar, and then wondering why they're not getting stronger. Yes. Well, that's what I was going to ask you. Let me do the lifts for you.

Because I read all this. And sometimes I blame the parent as much in the situation. at the son. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So to this dad, you know, I mean, how hard is it? Or how often do you see married couples? And it is like an entanglement of the son or daughter continues to listen to the parents over the spouse. Is that pretty common?

Super, super common. And not usually to this degree, whether you're lender and they're financing your life. But even on things as strange as someone's been married 20 years and we have to go to Thanksgiving and do it this way because my mom's the right. And so in a weird. way, your mother-in-law still running your life, right? So that happens all over the place. We probably have mutual friends that still have been married. They have three kids and they still hide the wine when, you know, when mom comes over. And so there comes a point when you have to say, I'm an adult. If I'm old enough to ask the question, will you marry me?

Then I have to, it is. Dad holds the blame here. But now that this guy said, I want you to marry me, he has to stand up, take responsibility and look at his father and say, thank you for bringing me here. I have to develop the skills and muscle and grit and resilience and responsibility to take it from here. And if his dad does a temper tantrum, then he's going to have a hard grown-up decision to make. But that's the call of a new husband. Yeah. And weirdly, if I'm her and he does that, and even if the dad throws the tenter, wait, temper tantrum, temper tantrum, I can't say, There's something about if the fiancé continues to push through though and continues to choose her, that shows even bigger of who he is.

Right? So like it is a little bit of this like, yes, yes. Yes. And at all. But when you ask somebody, will you marry me? They go to number one on your list. Yep. Above your parents, above everything, that person anchoring into that person becomes priority.

Yeah. Okay. We got about two minutes, John. What did you say from a relational standpoint? we're talking about like parent, child relationship sort of, I mean, adult child, but child. But when it comes to marriage, when we're talking about them as a couple, what do you see on your show and other places? Probably like one or two of the biggest issues that continue to like drive a wedge financially in a marriage. I mean, the biggest one, number one is people have my money and your money.

Yes. So you're 40,000. This is my 60,000, right? Like it's a billion dollars, right? But they try to, they're driving two cars down the highway right next to each other, trying to pretend that they're in the same car and they're not, right? So that's the first one. The second one, without a doubt, is financial infidelity, secrets. I bought this and didn't tell them, I'm going to buy this.

Don't you tell your dad, everything from a cup of coffee all the way to the new car, the new guitar. Or like we took a call earlier about the, I'm trying to day trade with borrowed money and I got myself. So it's secrets, it's lies, it's deception. Yep. Of continuing to hide. And what's so interesting, too, about that dynamic, because I've heard people say that, it's like, oh, just, yeah, don't, yeah, put the shopping bags away before dad gets home

so that he didn't see it. Because that means dad isn't looking at the bank statement or the credit card statement. That's the other side of it, right? That's wild to me. Whenever people say that, I'm always like, but that's so, unless they have a hidden account, right, which is one thing. But the whole shopping is, I mean, this is like a joke, I feel like among women is like, okay, if you go to Target, hide the target bags kind of thing.

Which whenever I hear that, I'm always like, yes, but doesn't that show up? And isn't someone looking at the checking account, right? And if just one person is, I give that a red flag. Like, you both need to be involved in seeing what's going on. It's one reason I do love every dollar with all the transactions that come in. Because once and I... Because it pops up on each other's phone. And sometimes it comes up a weird name that I did this yesterday.

And I was trying... And I screenshot and I text. I'm like, what is this? They go, that's insurance. And I was like, oh, shoot, okay, there we go. I wasn't sure what that was. But it just keeps you in this rhythm and on the same page. So married couples out there.

There are so many things with money that can drive a wedge. And it can be one of the reasons of divorce in America Day, one of the top reasons. But it doesn't have to take your marriage, right? There are things you can do. You can work together, be on the same team, do a budget together, have a plan together, have goals together. And be in one car like what John was saying versus driving in two cars down the streets. Be a team. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fair Wins Credit Union Studio.

I am Rachel Cruz hosting it today with Dr. John Deloney. You can give us a call at AAA-8-825-2-2-25. We are taking your questions about life and money. All right, let's go to Salt Lake City, and we have Austin on the line. Hi, Austin. Hey, Rachel. Hey, John. How's it going?

Hi, we're doing great. How can we help today? Hey, so I got married just this last summer and just enjoying married life, and we've combined our lives, combined our finances. but I'm kind of having a hard time. I feel like my wife isn't super involved with the finances. I feel like it's kind of all on me, which is fine. I feel like we're in a good, healthy, responsible spot.

I'm just wondering if I should strive harder to get her more involved. Slash, how could I do that? And then I also kind of have a fear that if something were to ever happen to me, she would be in a good spot but not really know what to do with as far as finances go. So I'll answer this question backwards. I have sat with multiple wives who have said the words, I don't know what to do. I don't know where the money is. I don't know where the accounts are.

I don't know who holds any of our anything. And so your fear on that, I've experienced that secondhand sitting with somebody. So your fear is 100% right. But I would say that's not the chief reason why I would want your wife involved. But I want to ask you a question first. cool? Sure. Is she not involved because all you do is throw spreadsheets around and talk about this and like you're kind of annoying to be around? Or, and I'm saying that laughingly, by the way, or does she just like, not care? Not care. Laughingly, probably the first one, but also the second one. Okay. I feel

like I am that way. But also I thought she just doesn't care. Well, and sometimes people don't care because they really just, I just don't care. Like my mom didn't do it. My grandma didn't do it. My grandma didn't do it, so I guess I'm not going to do it. And then sometimes people just take their stuff and they go home because they realize my voice doesn't count here at this table. I don't get a vote. I don't know how you're using all these Excel formulas and Claude and Anthropics. So I'm just going to, whatever, right? And so I think for you as a new husband, establishing in your relationship, like telling her, I'm sorry, I set this up this way. Your voice matters here. I want you at the table here. and we're going to co-make decisions.

And one of you is going to, like, in my marriage, my wife pushes the buttons. I don't send the bills to the electric company or whatever, but we talk about it, right? So one of y'all's going to do the nuts and bolts of it. But y'all being together is critical, man. Yeah, so the opposites attract thing is real, Austin. She probably will never be someone

that's, like, so excited to see her Excel sheets. Like, that's just not going to probably be her. And I can say that because that's me. I am not, that's not me. Winston is that. He loves all the detail. and does all this like projecting out on things. And I'm like, that's great.

But I'm not like super excited about it. But we sit down every month. And now, I mean, it's been 17 years. So now it's like, you know, quick 17, 16. I'm jumping ahead. But yeah, 16 years. But, I mean, it's quick conversations. But we do a budget.

We have every dollar. Transactions come in. I usually track them. Like, we are still on the same page. But to John's point, you know, I, he's the one that presses the buttons in our life of like, yeah, here, I'm going to pay these bills. and everything. But I'm still involved. And so I think that's the balance is you have to understand opposites attract. And what she brings to the table, Austin's going to be really good for you. Like,

you may need to loosen up a little bit too, right? So she's a gift to you in that. But then what she needs to understand is that she's an adult. She's a grown woman. She's married, which means you have to do adult things. Even though you don't like it, even though it's not your strength and it's not exciting to you, you have to do adult things. And adult things is learning how to manage a, how to manage a household financially. And again, she may not be pumped about it, but that is part of growing up. And so for you guys to sit down together and look at the numbers and do a budget together, have her change two or three things on the budget, like whether it's amounts or she needs to add a category. Like you do need her involved. And then you guys can kind of start working out of

that. So that's what I would say. You probably need to like chill a little bit with her and not so detailed. But then also on her end, she has to pull her weight to say, yeah, I may not want to do this, but I need to because I'm an adult. And we have to do things we don't always like. Does that make sense? Okay. Yeah, that's helpful.

Yeah. How old are you guys? Oh, she probably wouldn't like me saying this. I'm 31 and she's in her early 30s. She wouldn't like you saying. I thought you were going to say she's like 18 and you're like, I thought you were going to say she's 51. one. She wouldn't like you saying her age.

Yeah. Okay. There's something magic, especially in a new relationship with somebody saying, you know what? I have screwed this up out of the gate and I'm sorry. I really want your voice at the table here and I can be really annoying with my spreadsheets. I'm going to commit to not doing that. Or and vice versa. Hey, I've been really annoying with just being like, whatever.

I'm never going to be in a spreadsheets, but I want to be a part of the money. Like wherever you fall on that of saying, I have. set this dynamic up in a bad way, and I want to be a part of changing it. So good move on your part, brother. Awesome, awesome. Thanks. All right, let's go to Debbie in Dayton, Ohio. Hi, Debbie.

Welcome to the show. Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help? When my husband retired from his first job, he received a pension, and we took the pension and purchased a 10-year deferred annuity. Okay. We realized how bad this decision was later.

and we're wondering now if we should take the 10% surrender charge hit and just remove our principal and invest it with our other retirement money, hopefully making that back. Yes. I mean, it's usually, how much is in there? Right now there's $366,000. Oh, my gosh. Yes, because it would clear your debt, right? We don't have any.

Oh, even better. Oh, my gosh. Okay. We just have a little bit on our mortgage. Yeah. When Okay. When did he get this? We purchased it in

2023. Okay, so it's fairly new. Yeah. And we realize you can with no surrender charge take 10% a year, but that's just a slow growth. Well, I was going to say that, yeah. And it probably hasn't earned it a lot because you may have to pay on the gains of it too, but I don't think

there's not to be a lot because it's so new. The interest it supposedly earns versus the fees they're charging us. The fees are more than the entry. Yes, I know. That's the thing about annuities that are so tough is the fees are so high. And the person that's selling them gets a pretty good deal. Yeah, Debbie, I would.

You're going to have to freaking plug your nose when you do it, though. Because that's going to, it's going to hurt. But in the long run, putting that in an investment somewhere, even an index fund or something, oh my gosh, that's going to grow. How old are you guys? I'm 60s, 59. Okay, okay, so you guys are at that point. Because we have, we have other retirement investment.

We are about $1.2 million without this money. Okay. Is it a fixed or variable? This is flexible premium. Okay. I don't know if that answers your question. Okay. Do you have a smart investor pro?

No, but we do have a financial advisor that we've been working with. Not the one that sold you this, is it? No. Oh, no. Okay. Yeah, I would talk to them and run the numbers because you guys are at retirement age and seeing, you know, because what you would pay in penalties versus if you just slowly took this out over time because you're at that age. I would run the numbers, but, man, more than likely, just for your kids' sake from a legacy perspective, if you were to leave your kid something, I think I'd rather it be in an account that's earning more interest than what you guys are doing. It's that time again, folks. Tax season is here. I know some of you would rather bury your head in the sand until April 15th than face your taxes. But here's a better idea. If your tax situation is complicated, get in touch with a Ramsey trusted tax pro today. That way they can take the stress off your shoulders once those tax forms come in and teach you how to keep your tax bill as low as possible. But don't wait. Ramsey trusted pros can't.

bookup fast. Go to ramsysolutions.com slash tax pro to find one who serves your area with excellence. That's ramsysolutions.com slash tax pro. If you have kicked debt to the curve and curb, curve, curb, I've always said curb. What do you think it is? Kick to the curb, kick to the curve, kick to the curve. It's not the curve. It's the curve. That's what my sheet says. So as I was reading it, I was like, I don't know if that's your... Kick to the curve? That's like Ron Burgundy and reading my sheet. Oh my gosh.

Oh my gosh. Okay, listen, if you were debt-free and you have a fully funded emergency funds, do you know where you need to be? Not this March, but March of 2027. Not in the curve? Because you've kicked it. You kicked that curve. On the live like no one else.

Cruise, that's right, people. We are back. We did this last year, and it was so fun. It was a boat full of people that are doing. the Ramsey plan and who are debt-free and doing all the things. We were, and we loved it. It was such a great time. So it's Dave Ramsey, all the Ramsey personalities. We're all going to be there on March 14th through the 21st, 2027. We're going the Bahamas, Jamaica, Grand Cayman, Cosimo, and cabins are limited. So save up to $300 off when you book by February 7th. It's coming up,

you guys. So again, cabins are limited. So make sure to purchase one. If you go to Ramsey's solutions.com slash events. And I think it's, I saw the numbers two days ago. I think it's right at 50% sold. So half the boat. All those people kicking their debt to the curve. The curve. I was like, I don't know if that's right.

All right. Let's go to Salt Lake City and we have Grace who is on the line. Hi, Grace. Hi, guys. How are you guys today? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help? So I'm going to try to make this like not long.

It's really hard. situation, but basically me and my partner, we're both still technically married. He has two kids. Mom is gone. We're raising the two kids with us, too. We decided to combine our finances last summer, and we're in $91,000 of debt accumulated. Okay. And our monthly income is like $5,700 after taxes, and we just don't know what to do. And we have other expenses to last week we found out I was pregnant. And then we also... Grace, I'm so sorry.

Did you say you're married to him? We are both married to different people. Okay. So we live together and we've combined our finances. Are you guys both in the middle of divorces? Yes. So mine's finished in February. So mine's done almost.

Okay. Because we haven't even started because of the custody and all that, you know. I would not... I would... If you were my sister, if you were my daughter, if you were my close friend, I would tell you, do not combine your finances to that mess until it is cleared. Okay. Separate it. Please, please, please don't.

Because it can get so tangled. When, like, our rent, all these things are already accumulated. Just VINMO each other if you need to. But don't, don't put your names on each other's stuff. Don't be combining accounts. Don't be doing any of that. Oh, okay, I see. Yeah, I don't think we've really done that. We have separate accounts and everything like that, but we, like, I'll pay his bills.

He'll pay my bills. No, no, no, no, no, no. Like, you all are college roommates right now. Because here's the deal, Grace, he hasn't even gone through a divorce. When they go through and do all the mediation and they do, you know, they take all the assets and all of it, if you're paying on his, on his debt, like you're, you know, in that situation, I don't know, it gets all muddled. so quickly.

Yeah, I guess the problem is that we both don't have any assets besides our cars with car payments. We don't own houses. There's no money in the banks for either of us. It's like we are living week to week. Like we live off his paycheck one week. We live off my paycheck one week. That's how we're living our life.

Okay, he's on the phone. So I just want to talk to you. Is that cool? He's not on the phone. I'm saying like right now, I want you. you to focus on what you can control, okay? Okay. How much money do you make?

I make, so what makes it complicated too is I'm on commission-based salary. So I make my baseline is about $2,500 a month. And then more like $24 because I get paid like $1,200 byweekly. And then sometimes I take it $700 in a bonus in a month, and then sometimes it's $3,000. Sometimes it's four grand. Sometimes it's $2,500. Or if I don't make goal, like last month, I didn't get a bonus at all. Okay, so that feels like you are very economically insecure.

Right. What was your W-2 last year, or would you report on your taxes last year? $48,000. Okay. So in a situation like this, Grace, what I would do is, we call it the Hills and Valleys funds, if you will, So I would be so diligent. And again, this gets really complicated because you guys are sharing bills and all of it. Now you're sharing a human, right?

Mm-hmm. Okay. So as much as you can to go through and draw a line and say, okay, here's what I would owe, right? Whatever the utility is, I owe half. Like, if you can function like roommates financially, I think that's going to be really important because I want you to get your money in order. So what John was getting at is, hey, Grace, how much? much do you make? How much do you make? And you have to learn to live on your salary and your commission, right? And so how do we create a budget for you, Grace? Not for him, for you. And so what that means is,

yeah, when you have a great month, that means you're probably going to put, you know, a thousand bucks or so into this other account so that when you have a month that's just $2,500 and you don't earn a commission, you can pull some money out to pay your part of the bills. So it needs to have a really, really black and white situation financially with him. Okay. That's the cleanest way to do it. And then when he gets through all of his divorce stuff and you guys, I mean, I'm assuming you guys get married eventually. Yeah, that's the goal. Like, I guess where it's complicated is that like this $5,000 retainer is what's holding us up because like the way that we, because I've been listening to you guys on the show. And basically we were, you know, thinking we should combine everything and do

everything like that. Not until you're married. We want to be married. We want, if we could be married, we would have already gone to the courthouse. But you're, yes, I hear you. But it does, it's not an emotional. It's a, it's a legal issue, right? So like, it's not, oh, gosh, we want to be married.

So we should combine finances. No, no, you're not legally married. You have no protection. So, so no, we're not combining finances. And is his, the $5,000 retainer that he needs to figure out? Right. So I. For the kids.

Yeah. I mean, these kids are, like, it's a whole. know, but Grace, listen to me, and I know you don't want to hear this. We're just telling you, because we do this, we take these calls all day, every day. The chances of you working extra shifts, paying $4,000 of this $5,000 retainer, you paying the bills while he goes through his divorce, and then suddenly they reconcile. Or suddenly, he doesn't love you anymore, or suddenly whatever. And the reason I know that you have a psychology for that is because it's happened to you in your marriage. what you'll find yourself with is a brand new baby and you'll have nothing.

Yeah. And so I care about the woman on the phone that I'm talking to. I care about him too, but I'm not talking to him. He needs to come up with his money for his divorce. And by the way, you don't have enough money to even be helping with that. I feel like there's two people who are F math students trying to work together to get an A on an exam. Yes. Right?

And so I want you to work on your math skills. And it may be I got to get a different job. It may be I've got to figure out some new things. But I want you to start getting concrete under your feet because your life right now is a seesaw. And that's exhausting. Right. And he can play on the seesaw all day long, but I want you to stand on the sidewalk on firm concrete. And this is going to be hard because this is not only a mathematical financial issue.

It's a relational issue. when you like like if you do this i will be surprised like it would be easier to get off the phone and just keep doing what you've been doing and then you look up in two years and sadly a reality hits that's not what's not the picture you painted or you do what we say what we recommend i mean honestly and and and you do this and then he goes through all of his stuff and my prayer is that sure at the end of all of it you guys are still in love you have a baby and then you've had a you have a strong financial foundation under you he does as well you guys get married you combine it all, and then you go from there.

And you're actually building on something strong, not something that is so shaky like it is now. But the way to do it, the smart way to build, is separately. Financially, you need to be separate. You are roommates financially. You have to think about it that way. Welcome to 2026. Last year is officially in the rear view,

and you're fired up to finally make some changes with your money. New year, new goals. We love it. But let's be honest. Old you said the exact same thing last January. and the January before that. And before you know it, those money goals fizzle out faster than the fleeting flavor of LaCroix. So here's the truth.

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first 15 minutes. That's basically like giving yourself a raise and a much happier new year. So don't let future you down. Make them proud. Go download the every dollar budget app and start for free right now. Well, here in Nashville, Tennessee, we do the show live every day from one to four here on the glass. We have always a wonderful audience that comes out. And over to the side, we have the debt-free stage. And whenever we see someone on it, we know what it is. And so we have we have Matthew and Brie from Nashville, Tennessee. Welcome you guys. Thank you. Thank you. Happy to be here. We're very excited to be here. Oh my gosh. Okay. So you're obviously on the stage. You guys are debt free. That's correct. How much debt did you pay off?

110,000. Oh my gosh. What did that consist of? Two car notes, a little bit of student loans and some personal loans. Oh my gosh. All personal debt. All consumer debt. Yeah, consumer debt. We didn't have any credit card debt, thankfully. Yes. But we just decided to get after it and just paid it off. I love it. How long did it take you? About 10 months. Oh, my gosh.

What were you guys making during that time? Roughly about 115 a year, give or take. I work in health care, and so it can kind of fluctuate just on the overtime. I'm a CT tech, and so we decided last year to go on an adventure. and instead of travel nursing, think of travel CT. And so we rented out our house originally in Las Vegas. That's where I'm from. And I'm from North Carolina.

Okay. So moved to Las Vegas. Which is where we met. Yep. And they got married. And then we wanted to downsize everything. And then we did tiny house living. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. So it was pretty gnarly. Oh, my gosh. How long have y'all been married? Three and a half years. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

So, but literally last year. It was about a year ago today. We just looked at each other and we're like, we make too much money to be this darn broke, as Dave says. Yes, yes, yes. And we knew that we didn't necessarily want to go into any more debt, planning this move or moving or anything. Yeah.

And so we kind of drew out a plan. And both of us had always talked about moving to Nashville. She went to college in East Tennessee. Okay. And so I worked for a health care corporation that's pretty big out here. And then I got the job for Vanderbilt. But just we feel really, really blessed and really. Oh my gosh.

Yeah, a lot of prayer was over this. And so we're excited to be here in Tennessee after a lot of years of praying and figuring out like where God was calling us to go. So amazing. And so we did sell our house. So that was a big thing that just kind of just helped it. Okay. I was going to ask because you guys basically paid off the amount of debt you make in a year. So I was like, so something must have happened.

Yes. So we paid off roughly about 20 grand during. the time of the whole travel thing. Because we've been out here since mid-July, and so it was when we made the move out. But we knew that we didn't want to go into any more debt with that move because it was halfway across the country. And so it was really kind of an experience just eating, you know,

homemade pizza and just kind of, you know. That is beautiful. I mean, we just went on so many walks and, like, the mountains of the nature and just like the stillness. And that's really, yeah, what we just soaked in. So amazing, you guys. So whose idea was it? 10 months ago, who was the one that like brought the conversations of the table that you were like.

So I had actually taken Dave's class like almost like 15, 16 years ago. Oh yeah. And so I think it was like a 13 week course back then. Oh, yes. That was the old FDU. That's right. When I was like, oh my gosh, I have to start investing. I have to start doing all this type of stuff.

And so I was able to go to college debt free, just, you know, working multiple jobs. And then we got married kind of. I got married, kind of sorry. We did. Yeah, we got legally married first, and then we had our... Oh, okay. There was like a session. Yeah.

Yeah. And so we kind of lived the, I hate to say this, but like the Dave-ish, we kind of just fell into that. Yeah. Monotony. Totally. And then, like I said, last year, we really looked at each other and like, this is ridiculous. And I didn't really know much about Dave Ramsey or anything. And so he introduced me to it and what the baby steps were and just like getting after it.

and I love traveling. And so whenever I was looking at different jobs and traveling jobs and saw that his job could travel, I was like, oh, the best of both worlds. And so, yeah, that's kind of how we went with that route. Yeah. And so we knew we knew we wanted to get out here eventually, but we knew that we didn't want to go into any more debt for that. Yes.

If that may, you know. Totally. So you stopped that. So you're like, no more debt. So we got to say we've got to be thinking about this move. Right. Exactly. In a wise way.

Yeah. While still thinking about all this other debt you have. like we want to start paying it off. Exactly. And so when we just, you know, downsized, everything we could fit into our Subaru. And then we had a trailer that we also had some stuff on it. And we sold that in Colorado.

And then that's what we brought with us. Yeah. And then when we got here about seven months ago to Tennessee, then we got some stuff. And we're in our apartment right now. Okay. And so, yeah, we're excited for you. Good news.

Yeah. And so we. What an adventure. It's been crazy. It's been so much change. But we're just excited now to like settle down. Hopefully we have kids. and really, yeah, just see what's next.

How does it feel being debt-free? It feels really good. Relief. Like it's just like a brick has been taken off our chest because we knew that like it was coming, you know, but it's just such relief and we're never going back. Yeah, no, definitely not. So I want to throw this example out.

You guys are in Nashville right now? Yes. Yeah, we're around the gold chariot. And y'all went through this wild storm last week. Yes. And my wife and I were talking imagine being in that moment and we have to get out of here

we need to go get a hotel or something and we can't and y'all debt-free y'all go through this first big storm and what y'all got to do is what y'all wanted to do because you've worked for this all this time, sold everything

but we put ourselves in a position to not if but when life happens we get to decide what happens next yeah it's just um you know I've heard both of you say, you know, it's not an emergency, it's just an inconvenience. Yes. And it's kind of just like, yeah. It's like weather or you got to travel for a family thing, like whatever it is.

You're like, okay, we can do this. Yeah, we're good. Definitely experienced that since we moved here because things happen, car crashes, all these random things and or like a hospital bill from like way back when two years ago shows up and you're like, what? And then you just paid off and you're like, whoa. Like that was a really cool feeling. And we just know that it was all through God and him helping us.

Yeah, the whole time. It was kind of we took care of, you know, we were obviously chopping away at that tree on Baby Step 2, but then with the cell of the house, we just took care of Baby Step 3 as well. Good. How much did you get for the house when you sold? We got over six figures, and so it was a big chunk of change. That is. That's great.

So we were able to put a little bit away. And now it's just kind of sitting in an account, and we want to buy a home out here, hopefully. But we're in no rush. We get to kind of just take a breather. and just kind of just. You're patient. Nothing is urgent. Yeah,

nothing is urgent. And there's some great restaurants in the Gulf and y'all can just go what you want. Exactly. It's, it is nice. It is nice. So what would you say,

besides selling a really nice house? What would you say the key of getting out of debt is? What was one of the things that was so helpful? Obviously, we've been together for, you know, three, three and a half years and communication.

Yeah. It's teamwork. I think definitely, like, it has to be both of everybody's idea, like, coming together and, like, what that looks like, and so kind of, like, finding that compromise of what that would be.

And so for us, it was traveling, but for other people, it could look different. And so finding something that just inspires you to get to that point. Yeah, and I love that. And I'm the free spirit, and she's the definitely budget-minded. Now I am, but I used to be the free spirit. So we've kind of kind of like you.

I was such a free spirit, but I'm the one that tracks all the transactions. And every dollar. And that's what my mom always did, just in the household and just like, now just being married a little bit. it's not been that long, but just seeing, like, parent roles and, like, what they did and, like, how to be a wife and what I'm supposed to be, you know, in charge of.

And so I'm just trying to, yeah. No, it's great. That's great. Well, you guys are awesome. And how you are, you know, personality-wise, you lean into that, how you're great, which is amazing. And I see that in you guys. You create such a great team.

Yeah. Which is so fun. And just the diligence and the adventure, which I love that's a part of your story. So great. I've never heard somebody say that, but every couple has to pick their sacrifice. And for y'all, it's selling the house. For y'all it was we're going to travel or we're not going to travel. For me and my wife might be something different.

But every couple has to get together and choose their sacrifices. I love that. All right. You guys ready? I think we're all ready. Okay. Okay. So we have Matthew and Bree from Colorado.

Now live in Nashville, Tennessee. They've paid off $110,000 of debt. That's cars, student loans, and personal loans in 10 months, making $115,000 of income with the sale of a house. All right. Count it down. Let's hear of a headfirst. Three, two, one.

We're death free. Amazing. Oh, my gosh. It's a joy. That's how it's done, people. That is how it's done. Dude, they're smiling and dancing. Hey, guys, Dave Ramsey here.

Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to Ramsey Solutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's Ramsey Solutions.com. Our scripture of the day comes from Jeremiah 29-11,

for I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans to profit. for you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. Jim Collins said, it is better to understand who you are than where you are going. For where you are going will almost surely change. I love that quote. That's good. Do you think we change, though? Yes.

So both, both ands, right, Jim? Understand who you are more than where you're going, because where you're going is going is going, but also who you are may change too. You need to kick that to the curve. I don't know. What? That attitude. I'm totally kidding. You said we can change too.

I don't know. I like it all. I kind of like, these quotes are always great. We've done them for the entire, you know, beginning of the show. There's always a scripture and always a quote. But sometimes these quotes, I like to kind of pick them apart. See what I would say differently. All right.

Not that I would correct Jim Collins. Sorry, Jim. No, much wiser than me. I'm going to stick with your quote. All right, let's go to April in St. Louis. Hi, April. Hi, how are you? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help today? So I'm in a great situation. I've paid off all my debt and I'm investing. However, I want to know how you define the line of being generous without becoming the family bailout. Oh, good question. What's the situation? Why would you be the family bailout? Like, what's the family? What's the family need bailing out of? A lot of things, actually.

So I have a sister who's on the brink of bankruptcy, and she's got two kids. I've been helping her with car situations. So I bought her a car, actually ironically, in April, and it just took a itch of the engine just went on that. So I'm giving her my car and buying myself a new car. And then my parents, they're not plan for their retirement. They are living on Social Security and drowning because they've also taken on more debt that they can actually pay. So my dad does DoorDash, but they are drowning and they can't really pay their bills. So they come to me quite often to help out.

Gosh, okay, so your situation, you obviously have done well. What's your net worth? Right now, well, I guess I'm married now. our net worth is just about $3 million. Okay. And you guys are debt-free, everything. Yeah, you guys are doing great. Completely debt-free.

Yeah. Go ahead. I went through my own journey of realizing how much I was paying to interest. I had credit cards and auto loans and student debt, and I took on second jobs to get myself to a position between 25 and 32 of being debt-free and then starting to invest. And then my husband, he had a really great example. So he bought a home when he was 25 and was able to pay that off quickly.

Oh, wow. Yeah, you guys were just wise. We're a really fortunate situation, but my family. But you worked for it. You made smart decisions too. So give yourself that credit. Yeah. Yeah.

Thank you. Yeah. So I like to think of generosity as a, as a, it's like an approach, right? It's like a spirit of. and so everybody has to decide what that means for themselves some people's generosity they look at it like an ROI I want to I want to give to something I want to give to things that I want to see multiply some people like to give and just because I want to be a part of what you're doing some people want to give because I don't like it but it's the right thing I have deemed it to be the right thing

Right. Right. But none of that comes from a spirit of guilt. That's where I'm at. And here's the other thing. None of it comes from a spirit of somebody's going to be worse off because I kept doing this. Because then my guilt ends up putting somebody in a worse position. It's never the guilt of them being in a bad position, but it's the guilt of them not learning from their mistakes is the problem that I grapple with.

Yeah. The challenge is they're not. interested in learning right now. Correct. Right? And so I think it's having that kind of conversation. And it sounds to me, in my head, there would be a difference between my parents' situation and my sister. Right.

But again, everybody's different. Of like meaning of just like taking care of. Yeah. Like I mean, it's cool to say like, they didn't plan. So they're on their own. But also I'm not going to let my parents be homeless, right? Right. Especially if I'm in a position where I can help out.

And so, but I, I might. sit down and say, hey, if you take on any more debt, I can't contribute to this, right? Yeah. Or I need you to make a bunch of. Have you had hard conversations in general, April, with them? Yeah. Yeah. I have.

And I've even sat down and worked budgets with them. And then the next month, they just blow that up and they do whatever they want and they buy whatever they want. So we've gone through several conversations of how can they do better and what can we do to set them on the right path. They went through their own foreclosure and bankruptcy six years ago. I mean, and nothing's waking them up, it sounds like. No, that they've had two bankruptcies, actually.

So you go through financial literacy training with a bankruptcy, so it really boggles my mind that they're just not learning. How old are they? How old are they? 70. Yeah. They're just 70. And what would happen if you didn't? I'm just curious.

if you did not give them any money, what would happen to them? Would they not be able to pay their mortgage? Like logistically, what happens? I think that they would fall into a position where they couldn't pay their rent, and they would eventually have some eviction process. And then what? I don't know, because physically they also can't. They're not, physically, financially, they're not capable.

Like, we're actually looking at my mom, growing into an assisted living because of how bad things are. And so it's more than just financial. But it's, you know, I love to dedicate my time to help them with their problem. And I do dedicate my money. But, you know, there's a give and take. Yeah. For sure.

I personally, if I, if somebody comes to me, if a buddy of mine from back in the day comes to me and says, hey, I'm struggling with X, Y, and Z, I need some help. I'm much more likely to say I will help with this car repair or I will pay the landlord directly or me and two of my siblings will contribute to

you know the long term care I'm not going to write you a check and hand you cash right right right so I'm not going to I'm not going to do this because you have proven over and over you can't handle this stuff I think you and your husband need to get in a room together and just

decide. Yeah, what is he said? What are our boundaries going to be? What's your husband say about it? So this is where we break all the Ramsey rules because we've been together 13, 14 years, married three of those, and we've never completely merged or checking. Okay. So does he know you're giving them money? He knows. Yeah, he knows. And it's always a conversation every time I do it because it's our future. We do have planning together. This is a recipe for simmering resentment over time. Yeah. Yeah. So I think this is the moment April, honestly, that you guys combine everything and you say we are a team, which means we're going to tackle one of the hardest issues. Probably we're going to have to in a while. And that's what is being

generous with my parents look like. And we're going to agree together on that with our money. and there's something about that spirit that kind of like, it's almost like you're adding a conflict to a really hard thing, but there's a part of me that's like it kind of forces it all out there for you guys and it forces you to face the music together. And for you maybe to hear some things you may not want to hear or need to hear, vice versa with him. I don't know.

There's something about it that I'm like, you guys need to go all in together. And this is kind of like one of the springboard moments to allow it. Yeah. Yeah. And you have to, like I would just metabolize. nothing you can say or do is going to change how your parents act. Yeah. That ship has sailed.

You have to decide what are you going to contribute out of a spirit of generosity? And I'm going to do X, Y, or Z, but we're done trying to teach. As for your sister, maybe you say this is the last time I bail you out unless you want to do a budget with me. Thanks for the call, April. Thanks to everyone in the booth. John, thank you as always. And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace. and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.