The Ramsey Show - Financial Chaos Doesn't Have to Define Your Future

Starting point is 00:00:02 Brought to you by the Every Dollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is The Ramsey Show. Rachel Cruz, number one bestselling author, Ramsey personality, co-host to Smart Money Happy Hour.

Starting point is 00:00:31 My daughter is my co-host today. The phone number here is 8-8-8255-225. The call is free, and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. Chris is with us in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. Hey, Chris, what's up? Hi there. Thanks for taking my call. My question is, is there some ways I can, on my own, prepare things financially

Starting point is 00:00:54 to avoid as many complications should my husband pass away ahead of me? Because he's pretty much kept me in the dark about a number of things, including financial specifics, our whole married life. Okay, so... I'm sorry. How long have you been married? 46 years Oh my goodness

Starting point is 00:01:12 And he's kept you in the dark Purposefully Because you've asked to see things And he won't let you see it Or he's just You don't ask And he just takes care of it And that's how it's always been

Starting point is 00:01:23 In your marriage It started out because we're family It was a family business of harm And so with his parents You know And so I just I'm not from I'm from the city

Starting point is 00:01:31 And I you know Let them do their thing right And so I was never put on anything Like signing checks or anything from the beginning. And throughout these years, I just trusted him because I am not a financial. That's not.

Starting point is 00:01:44 I have other, I have better things that I do better than this. And so I just trusted him to do that. Well, we've lost a lot of friends lately. Our daughter is going through this right now. And I'm just like, well, and then he said something to somebody. And it's like, anyone I asked him about it? Crickets. He wouldn't tell me anything.

Starting point is 00:02:02 And so it's like I started looking into things. And it's like, oh, boy. I, yeah, and he won't tell me, he'll just not say anything or he'll tell me things that really aren't significant. Does that make sense? So it's like, okay, what can I do because like I don't want to go through like probate. I'm sorry if I'm going to lose it here. But I don't want to go through, you know, what can I do to make it simple because I've had friends who had it all done. They went through nothing.

Starting point is 00:02:30 You know, the end is just like nothing ever happened. And it's like, okay, I'm finding out that this is not going to be fun. and I don't like not fun and I like surprises. Okay, so if you're looking for a way around dealing with your husband, there's not one. Okay. The only answer to your question is that he completely puts all the cards on the table, face up, and sits down and explains to you exactly where you are, and then you'll know where you are, and then you guys lay out a plan if something happens to me,

Starting point is 00:03:01 honey, this is what I want you to do here, is what I want you to do here, and you'll be taking care of and you'll be fine here. And if he won't do that, you're going to have to hit him on top of the head with a two before. Well, that's been in the works. I've been thinking about that. It's just, yeah, I have tried and he just won't, you know, and I'm finding out that even like names on accounts, things that I didn't even know. For example, he changed accounts, bank accounts, new bank,

Starting point is 00:03:32 We had good interest rates. And a couple years, and it's like I found out my name was not. I went to put my name on it. Well, he has to prove it. Today, just getting kind of prepared for this. I went, he still hasn't done it. And that was over a year ago. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:03:45 Okay. So I have nothing. I have nothing. I don't know what to do. The bottom line is, is you don't know what's going on. And you don't like what you do know. And so it's time that the two of you get this stuff straightened out because you're going to be in a world of hurt if he gets hit by the milk truck tomorrow.

Starting point is 00:04:02 You know, and, and it's, you know, and so you've been married 46 years. You do know how to get this man to do things. You just hadn't got him to do this thing. No, you hadn't got him to do this thing. And I've been married 43 years, and my wife manages to make it her idea, my idea, before I knew it was my idea. And so apparently he's getting ready to come up with a brand new idea that he hadn't thought about yet. And so, and it's going to be that he owes his wife of 46 years. clarity. He doesn't have to relinquish control of this stuff because he's probably doing an

Starting point is 00:04:42 okay job, but she needs to know what the flips going on. And there's a tremendous, the air will change in your house when he does this and it'll piece versus electricity. I'm curious. When you say you know nothing, do you know any information about any type of debt you all have how much is in savings, how much you have in retirement. Do you have any concept of anything? Well, so he used to go away for a couple of weeks, a number of years back, and he said, if anything happens, go to this person, this person, this person. Okay, that's fine. But I'm finding out now that my name isn't on anything, and I can't even, like, if I call the bank, you can't have any information because your name isn't on it. We are debt-free. We have no

Starting point is 00:05:28 death, as far as I'm aware of, and I don't think we do. And so as far as that, and, you know, I found one thing that did have my name on it. So, you know, I'm like, he's totally destitute. And one of the things, because I always have to ask them for money, like every month. Okay. You need to stop it to decide what your ask is. You know, you just went off again on your name being on things. I don't know if your name needs to be on them or not.

Starting point is 00:05:52 Probably does. But your main ask is not that at all. It's I need to know exactly in detail what the plan is. if you die. But also having a say is having your name on your checking account, Chris. I mean, that's a basic to me. And then, okay, if you die, then it looks like to me, the second thing is, once you know what's going on and every detail, then the second thing is, I need to add my name to these things. So if you die, I'm not penniless. Yeah. And we're going to take a Saturday and hit each bank, and we're both going to go down together with the correct documents. And we're going to, we're going to do this.

Starting point is 00:06:29 Yeah. And we're going to change it today. We're getting in the truck and we're driving down there and you're not leaving until you do this. And the third thing, Chris, is that you now don't have the excuse anymore of I'm just not good at this money thing. That changes today that you're going to have to not only learn and it's basic stuff. I think you are very capable of learning, but you have as much say into your money and your household as he does. He doesn't need to be giving you money every month. Like, right? I mean, you guys need a budget together.

Starting point is 00:07:01 you need your own line item and you have as much say in what goes on in the finances in your household as he does. Now, I know these are big changes to make, you almost like 50 years. That's step three. That's step three. And so, you know, the first thing is we're going to get clarity on exactly what you want to have happen, honey, if you die Friday. Because if we don't do the second step, you may die Friday. I might take you out with the two by four. So we really need to get this clear. And Chris, you guys, it sounds like, because you dropped this in the middle of everything,

Starting point is 00:07:41 was something that we're losing friends and our daughters going through this. There seems to be a lot of chaos happening around you. There's death. Death around you. And yeah. And this is raising to the top. And part of that fear, and he needs to hear that from you. People are dropping dead around us and it's making me scared that I don't know what the flip's going on.

Starting point is 00:08:00 Oh, is that what she meant? Losing friends? Oh, I thought, okay. No, they're not losing. They're losing friends because they're dying. Sorry, Chris. They've been married 46 years. These are.

Starting point is 00:08:09 I was thinking like friendships. I was like, oh, no. That's how I lose friends now. I don't lose friends because they're mad at me. Sorry, I lose them because they go to heaven. That era. It's this era. No, they're not mad.

Starting point is 00:08:22 Oh, man. They just went to Jesus. Fair, very fair. Yeah, use that and just say, honey, that scares me, and I'm not okay with this. I'm not okay. I'm not okay with the situation, and we're going to change it. And you're not going to sleep until we change it, because I'm going to keep you up. Hey, guys, George Camel here.

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Starting point is 00:10:32 Better than I deserve. What's up in your world? All right. So let's see here. I'm going to try to wrap it up real quick. but first time in my life, I feel very scared and nervous with what's going on in my situation. I have a total of about a little bit over $130,000 in debt, car loans, credit card, personal loans. I am a homeowner right now. I pay about $5,000 a month, not including property insurance or taxes. I'm behind on my property taxes. I'm behind in my 2000. 2025 taxes, I'm starting to get served for my credit card debt. I have three kids, I've been married about 20 years, separated, renting right now, not living in my own home,

Starting point is 00:11:27 and I'm getting ready to file for divorce. So just need some guidance help. Has your income changed? My income has been increasing. So why are the bills unpaid if you were making them before, and now you're not? Why? Because we, you know, I didn't follow the rules and guidelines for you. We did some remodeling in which, on the home, which was not a good move. My debt went way sky high.

Starting point is 00:12:00 Our kids are in private school. That was an added cost as well. What do you make? And 200 grows 240,000 a year. Does your wife work outside the home? She just started working. She makes about $1,600 a month. Okay.

Starting point is 00:12:24 Wow. Okay, well, the way you eat an elephant is a bite at a time. And so there's a whole lot of moving parts here. And it's real easy with that many mosquitoes flying around your head to point at the wrong one. So we need to sit down and say, okay, what is the first priority with my money? I have $240,000 to work with. I'm going to buy food for me and my kids. That's first priority.

Starting point is 00:12:54 Okay, that's done. We're going to keep the lights on and the water going at both locations. Okay, we can do that. All right. And we're just going to go down the list like that until we start running out of money. and if it's forced ranked, the things at the bottom of the list when we run out of money are the least important things, like the credit card debt. They can jump in a creek right now.

Starting point is 00:13:18 If you can't pay something, they're a good one to not pay. They bark and phone with the mouth and roll around the floor, but they don't really do anything other than mess up your credit. Okay. You got cars you can't afford, I'm guessing? Yes, so I do have a pound for a car. There's one that I'm going to sell. I owe $13,000.

Starting point is 00:13:38 on it. I do believe I could sell it for about 10,000, which I'll have to put out. Yeah, just get rid of that. All right. And so what is she driving and what are you driving? I'm driving now a truck that's been paid off for. What about her? She is driving a vehicle that we owe $21,000 right now on that. Okay. Why not the $13,000 and sell the $21,000? Yeah, that is an option. She makes $1,600. After the divorce, she's not going to be. build before to keep a $21,000 car. Yeah, you're right.

Starting point is 00:14:16 Okay. And you're not going to be able to keep this house either? No, I've already had that discussion with her. Yeah. So the house needs to be on the market, the $21,000 car needs to be on the market. If the divorce is really going through, if there's no chance of reconciliation, is there? We've gone through counseling, and, you know, the financial aspect of it has a lot to do with that I've breaking down, showed her all our death, what we make, what I make. And she's just unwilling to look at it to face reality. And I'm just done with it, unfortunately, after so many years.

Starting point is 00:14:52 Gosh, Sam. Yeah. Well, if that is going to be happening, then also all the, you said you were behind, because that's going to be part of the prioritization lists that you make is getting current on what you can. and so you're behind, you said, you named off a couple of things that you're behind property tax. Yeah, but you don't have to worry about

Starting point is 00:15:14 if you're selling the house. I assume the house has equity, right? Just pay it with the equity when it sells. About $350,000 in equity. Okay. And she's going to get a big chunk of that and go start her new life, and you're going to get a small chunk of that

Starting point is 00:15:29 and start your new life with your big income, and she's going to get a big chunk of your income, called Alamonean Child Support. And so, you know, this is how, you know, a divorce turns a marriage into a business transaction. What do we keep and who pays for what? And that's the questions. And, you know, so the reality is in the mediation and the discussion between the two attorneys, we've got to get the house on the market and we've got to get that car sold.

Starting point is 00:16:01 And, you know, out of the, or she's got to pay it off out of, the proceeds of the her portion of the proceeds of the house and keep the car, she could do that. If you're going to sell the house, she's going to get enough money to pay off the car if she wants to keep that car. I wouldn't recommend it, but if that's what she wants to do, that's fine. And then sell the $13,000 car. You know, which one do you want to keep, honey? Because we're going to sell one of them, and you're going to pay off the other one with your portion of the house proceeds when it sells. So which one do you want? And get the other one sold, right? And, you know, Your portion of the equity will probably clean up almost all these bills if you sell those cars, if you pay off the cars and or sell the cars.

Starting point is 00:16:43 So what, so 13 and 21, so 34, what's the other $100,000 in debt? Taxes? How much you owe the IRS? I owe $12,000 for the property taxes in about, I'm calculating $10,000 for my 2025 tax taxes that I haven't done yet. So an additional 10,000. Why have you not done your 25 taxes yet? This is June. Yeah, no, it's a lot of stuff going in my mind, and I just say they're making a priority.

Starting point is 00:17:19 Yeah, not filing is a bigger penalty than not paying. So figure out what they are, even if you don't pay them, and get that filed. And see, all these things start to relief your brain. Your brain is overwhelmed by 93 things swimming around at one time. And if we just start setting them to the side one at a time, one at a time, one at a time, that's what I meant by eating an elephant, a bite at a time. Then you go, okay, I'm going to file the taxes. I'm going to pay them later.

Starting point is 00:17:45 I may have to pay them out of the proceeds of the house. I may have to pay them out of what income I have left after child support and alimony. And then you've got a pile of credit card that too, don't you? Yes. Yes, I do. Okay. Over 50. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:18:01 What was that on, Sam? Was that her racking it up? You know, yeah, there was some remodeling that I had to put on. Oh, you put that on the credit cards. Okay. Right. Okay. Yeah, well, you're going to, again, proceeds from the sale of the house.

Starting point is 00:18:17 What I'm doing, if I'm your attorneys, is I'm looking at $300,000 coming out of the house. I've got to clear $130, give or take selling a $13,000 or $21,000 car. And then we're going to split up the rest of it. she's going to get most of it. You probably got a 401k. You're going to try to protect and give her the most of the house money. But 130 needs to be paid off out of the sale of the house. House needs to get sold as soon as possible before you get behind on it.

Starting point is 00:18:41 That's what's hard. That's, you know what I mean? A lot of the stuff that can take. Yeah, but it's put it on, you know, again, the leaving things in limbo, waiting, dragging things out six months, having too many discussions about stuff. if it is over, it's over, if it's not over, it's not over. It's two different sets of decisions. And so you cannot drag this out.

Starting point is 00:19:10 That will kill you guys, both of you. It's going to take both of you out. And so you're going to end up losing the house or something silly like that. Right. That's what I was thinking is like, I don't know, would you get current on stuff and see if to make it. I would get current on that house and stay current on that house because it cleans up the rest of the debt when it sells. and then you need to get the divorce mediation to begin between the two attorneys and get that house on the market as soon as possible. And then you've got to work through.

Starting point is 00:19:38 You're going to end up paying your taxes and figure out what you're doing with these different things. But again, break it down one thing at a time and then it's not as overwhelming. Force rank these things. Hey, you guys, did you know that there are thousands of data brokers whose entire business is collecting and selling personal information, things like your home address, your phone number, and even your relatives' names. You guys, that is just crazy, but that is why I use Delete Me, because those companies that pull information from public records, social media, and all kinds of other places. Then suddenly, all that information shows up on random websites. And removing it yourself means going

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Starting point is 00:21:42 I have a home with about $225 equity in it. I'm wondering if it might be an option to sell my home, purchase a mobile home with cash, taking the rest of the money and investing it for retirement. You ever seen a 25-year-old mobile home? A 25-year-old one? Actually, I have. Yeah, I've been looking at them lately. It's not where I want to live when I'm 85.

Starting point is 00:22:12 25-year-olds are not... Not where I want to live when I'm 85. Nice ones. No, but... They go down in value and they rushed. I didn't think about the rest. Yeah. In California, actually, honestly, they are going up just because they're not.

Starting point is 00:22:28 They might be sitting on dirt that's going up, but the mobile home is not going up. Oh, that could be. Gotcha. Dirt goes up. Mobile homes don't. They go down. Yeah. Nope.

Starting point is 00:22:39 Nope. Nope. Nope. Are you working? I am working full time. What do you make? I've been at my job over 30 years. I make up 48,000 a year.

Starting point is 00:22:51 I live, or my son who has epilepsy. see his wife and daughter, or his wife and my granddaughter live with me. So I'm a family of four. So I look at the choices I've made and I feel pretty silly and I realize I can't sit in Philly. I've got to make some type of a plan here. So the wife does not work? Not yet.

Starting point is 00:23:18 She may be, she can have surgery next month. So we're waiting for after that. She's had quite, she's not very. well, unfortunately. She's had... And your husband, your son's epilepsy? I'm not married. No, I'm sorry.

Starting point is 00:23:32 Your son, I must have up. Your son has epilepsy. Yes. He has had this for 10 years and literally in February with his seventh neurologist finally got diagnosed. So this neurologist is working to be able to get him a permanent disability status so that... How much will that bring in? Do you know?

Starting point is 00:23:56 Per month? You know, I don't because he has worked very little. He's been unable to work for 10 years, and he's coming up on 40. So I'm not sure exactly how much he might be entitled to. Wow. I have $20,000 in retirement and $10,000 in credit card debt. What do you do for a living? I'm an office manager for an air conditioning contractor.

Starting point is 00:24:27 I have severe arthritis. So I'm struggling to stay working full-time, but being there so long, it's a small family business, and I'm appreciative. They understand my time off, and I'm still, I just ask God everybody to keep me an asset to business, and so far is so good, but, again, I'm 63. You know, I'd really love to be able to retire by 65, but there's got to be a plan, and I'm late to the party. I am late to the party.

Starting point is 00:24:59 Okay. Well, you've got a lot on your plate, kiddo. I'm sorry. But a mobile home doesn't fix the problem. It treats the symptom. It treats the symptom. The symptom is the strain. The problem is income in the household. And, you know, as a ratio in $48,000, and you've got these other three folk you're looking after right now. And you're doing that on $50,000 a year in Los Angeles. That's tough. That's a tough number right there. There's not a lot of room. You guys aren't, you guys aren't, hadn't got a lot of wiggle room in this. So, yeah, you're, sadly, you're going to be working, and so is she and so is he. As soon as all of you can, because you don't really have a choice. You're going to have to bring some in, you're going to have to bring some income into this house.

Starting point is 00:25:52 Now, what I might do at some point would be to leave Los Angeles. and sell a house and buy a much less expensive home in a much less expensive area of the country to try to make your all's income go as far as it can go at that point. I thought of that, okay. But I don't want you on a 25-year trajectory at 63 to 88 of declining values to add to your problems. Gotcha, okay, okay. That's what I'm trying to help you avoid. But it doesn't fix the strain that you've got today to hold on to this house.

Starting point is 00:26:34 What's owed on the home? I owe 95, I think it is. I did have a realtor go and look at all the specs, and so she told me I should get about $2.25 out of it. Oh, it's not $2.25 in equity. It's $2.25 in value. No, no, I'm sorry. She said in my pocket.

Starting point is 00:26:54 Oh, okay. Okay, so it is. $2.25 after selling in a on-close. So $325,000. our house approximately. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:27:02 Okay. Lori, are you guys month to month okay? Oh, pretty much. Because you're living on your salary for all these people. You're able to stay current on everything? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. But I'm blessed.

Starting point is 00:27:18 I pay my bills. Absolutely. In fact, I just told, you know, we have a couple of streaming services. I said, okay, I'm cutting those off. We don't need the streaming. So, granted, it's only $11 a month, but I go, that's that I can put $11 towards my credit card that's climbing the charts. So, you know, trying to, any little thing we can do.

Starting point is 00:27:39 But they do get SNAP, which is like food stamps. Yeah. So I don't have to pay. My daughter-in-law's grandmother lives in town. She just about provides everything for my granddaughter in the way of school clothes, supplies. You know, she helps, you know, with anything that the granddaughter might need for that's a big help.

Starting point is 00:28:01 But she's older than I am. What's the nature of your daughter-in-law's health problems? Last year she had gallbladder out. The year before, she had half a hystress maybe the other half of the history maybe it was supposed to be full. She had a horrible thyroid issue, which causes her to, on their anniversary, her gift is to sleep 48 hours straight. And the doctor's like, you're immune to everything. What is the operation she's getting ready to have?

Starting point is 00:28:36 Carpal tunnel on both hands. She has severe. When can she be able to work? Do you know what the recovery time is? You know, I don't know what recovery time is. I'm thinking probably by the time school starts to get in September. Yeah. Well, so what I would love for you all to do is to have a plan,

Starting point is 00:28:55 and it might even involve going ahead and moving now. to a less expensive area, but to have a plan to create income for this household. Anything you can do to get your income up and certainly maintain the income that you have, anything they can do to add income. His getting permanent disability is going to be social. It's going to be SSI coming in. There may be SSI available for the child in that situation too. And, you know, just be learning about all of those things.

Starting point is 00:29:25 and anything he can do within the framework of permanent disability to still earn an income. There's a limit, but he can do some things. I want him to do it. Because if this is not, the trajectory of this is not good. It's not sustainable. So we've got to get some income coming into this house somewhere and or get our outgo down. And that's what led you towards the, getting rid of the house payment by getting the home, by getting the mobile home.

Starting point is 00:29:59 I would leave L.A. before I did that and take my 235 and go to wherever cheap area of the country, name it. And that kind of thing. And, you know, but again, you guys have got, even then when you do that, you've got to land a new job and each of them has to land an income. And so it doesn't fix everything because at 225, will go away real fast. 100% if you cash out of this house. For sure. Yeah. Do not buy something going down in value that doesn't solve your problem.

Starting point is 00:30:33 So I see how you got there, though. You're thinking you're trying to find some options. Wow. You call us any way we can help in the future. We'll try to be more help. But that's what I'm seeing right now. You know, when I became a dad, something flipped. Suddenly, it wasn't just about me and my wife anymore.

Starting point is 00:31:24 It was, what happened? to my family if I'm not here tomorrow. And things like that just hit different when you become a parent. But I'll be honest, making a will feels heavy and complicated, and it's not exactly what I want to be doing with my time off. But here's the deal. Being a parent means doing the hard stuff, especially stuff that protects your family. And that's why I used mama bear legal forms. No hassle, no lawyers, just a simple online tool that helped me create a legit will in about 20 minutes. So it was pretty much painless. Plus, I added a notch to my dad belt right there between installing car seats and bedtime stories. Listen, being a dad never stops. And making a will is how you

Starting point is 00:32:03 make sure your family's covered even when you're not there. So get your will done today at mama bear legal forms.com and use the promo code Ramsey to save 20% off when you check out. Again, that's mama bearlegalforms.com promo code Ramsey. He is with us in Chattanooga. Hi, Will. How are you? I'm great. Thanks for taking my call, Rachel and Dave. It's an honor to be on the phone with you. My life and me are for huge fans of the show and your ministry. It's awesome to be with you. Well, thank you. How can we help? Yes, sir. My first quick question is about tax loss harvesting or direct indexing.

Starting point is 00:32:55 I'm assuming because I've been following what you teach in high school, you're not a fan because you don't recommend to buy single stocks, but my financial advisor is recommending inside of my non-qualified account that I'm, I'm starting to build to look into that. Well, I'm not doing, you can do tax loss harvesting without doing single stocks. You can do that as a function of a mutual fund. And there's nothing wrong with that. Here's the first, the first thing is concentrate on making money with your investments. That's the first thing.

Starting point is 00:33:31 And then, while you're making money, is there a thing over here on the, on the side that we can do some moving around inside a mutual fund and do a tax loss harvesting strategy, yes. But that doesn't need, you don't need to lead with tax loss harvesting. You need a lead with make money. With good funds. Yeah, with good funds. And then you can, you know, so in other words, the only way tax losses occur in investing

Starting point is 00:34:00 is if you lost money, you got a bad investment. Or, yeah, one of the stocks within the index or the mutual. funds goes down and they can sell with like a like kind stock and you get to write off the loss and they do that all, which is, I mean, it's a, it's a great function. It's one that I was even just talking to you about. My husband and I moved some money into an accounts probably two years ago with this like new investment strategy within it within an index fund, but they, it can, it can happen within it, which is great because you write off the loss. Not doing single stocks to do it. But no, not single stocks.

Starting point is 00:34:31 But no, not do that. And I don't want it to be the primary. The primary needs to be make money. Yeah, and most all, you know, mutual funds, index funds, as we've seen the past couple years, have all gone up. I mean, you know, in value. Ridiculously up. But there may be a couple within there that you can use for that advantage, which is great. But yeah, no. So the reason I'm being cautious in how I word this is, the concept is fine. What scares me is that financial goobers that are out there, the guys in the business, they,

Starting point is 00:35:06 love a math riddle and they can go down the rabbit hole on their enjoyment of their nerding out on a math riddle and miss the point and the point is first make money right but don't you know but the shiny new math riddle is always around the corner and all financial advisors just about can fall for that trap uh i know because my brain works the same way i love looking at a new math thing and I'm going, wow, that's kind of cool. But if it's for your advantage, then you're like, right, we're plugging in. It can't be just because they got all excited about their little nerdiness, then that becomes the primary, and the primary is make money.

Starting point is 00:35:53 Okay? That's the primary. And then we can do math nerdiness and have some fun on the side and get to the advantage and do the tax harvesting. The concept in and of itself is, but it's number, it's number F, not A, B, C, E, C, D or E. It's on down the list of things I'm worried about. Of prioritization.

Starting point is 00:36:11 And of course you're out of debt, house and everything before we talk about having a non-qualified account of that size, I assume your house is paid off, Will. That's the only debt I have. No, then you don't need to be talking about any of this. None of this should be on the table. You shouldn't have that kind of money in an unqualified account. It should be going on your stinking house. Remember?

Starting point is 00:36:33 Remember that part when you said you followed our stuff? Baby step six is pay off the house? Well, it's just asking. Yes, sir. Yeah. Well, I hear you. You know what? I think, listen, yes, have your 401k, your Roths do your 15% into your retirement.

Starting point is 00:36:47 And everything else goes on the house. And pay off the house, yes. And then the investments above retirement. How much in your non-qualified accounts, Will? It's about half of that to about, I have $85,000 invested. Half is in mine and my wife's growth IRA and the other half is in non-qualified. We just purchased a house. I'm 22.

Starting point is 00:37:05 And I just been putting money in that before, and I haven't taken it all out to put on the mortgage. It's so good. You need to follow the baby step at three is an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. Four is 15% of your income going into qualified accounts. Roth and Roth with Match are your first two things until you get to 15% of your income. And everything else goes for home, enjoyment, life, generosity, and paying down the house. And we pay off the house before we start talking about that. So no, I don't like your financial advisor anymore because now he's got you paying.

Starting point is 00:37:40 He's got you screwing around with $45,000. No money, $45,000, a tiny but little account. And you're doing tax harvesting with this thinking, this nerd now on something you should be dealing with $450,000 for you're screwing with that. And so, no, you need to get your house paid off. Will called to learn what you think. No, I know. But the shiny little nerd. The shiny little nerd guy has got him thing going on.

Starting point is 00:38:07 No, I don't like him. No. Not Will. I'm talking about his financial advisor. He should not be advising this. This is exactly what I was talking about. Okay. Go.

Starting point is 00:38:16 Go. The financial guys get all whooped up about something and he's got a 22-year-old screwing around with $45,000 on this instead of paying off his house because he learned something in financial advisor class that he thought was cool. There you go. Fair. Yeah, that's what we don't want to do. Fair.

Starting point is 00:38:33 that's what we don't want to do. So no, let's fast forward. Okay, Will, you're 28, your house is paid off. You've got half a million dollars now in your five, and you're qualifieds. And now you're in baby step seven, and you're starting to chunk some money away. And you've got a hundred thousand bucks laying over here in a brokerage, and you're doing some index funds with it and some other stuff. Then we can start talking about worrying 10% 20% worrying about tax harvesting

Starting point is 00:39:05 80% worrying about making money but now is not the time to do this and this guy's he's got yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I had to get to the bottom

Starting point is 00:39:16 for a minute but I could the just mad no the people that I have been trained with my whole life these financial people I love them

Starting point is 00:39:26 our smart bester pros you know, they do a great job, but the way our brains work in that is we just love a good math thing. And it's just shiny for us. And we want to, and so it's the answer to, you know, now we have a hammer, so everything's a nail, you know, and it's not. It's a one-track mind at that point versus zooming out and looking at your entire financial picture and getting yourself in a place with priorities, like what you're saying. Don't get enamored with the sophistication. Live on lesson you make and save money. There you go. But when these people, people start getting enamored with something that's sophisticated, tax harvesting, tax loss

Starting point is 00:40:02 harvesting. It just sounds very sophisticated. It's like, oh, geez, don't get sidetracked with this stuff. That's when people lose their butt. They're chasing some kind of hack that's going to make everything easy. What's easy is living on less than you make and investing the difference and you'll be a millionaire. And that's not all directed at Will. It's mainly, well, you're doing a really good job. Yeah, incredible. 22. And actually, you did call in and to your defense, you said, I don't think you're going to go for this, Dave. But I didn't know why I wasn't going to go for it until the end of the call. He knew you better than you knew yourself.

Starting point is 00:40:35 Well, because he knew his numbers. He buried the, I didn't ask the numbers. I didn't get to $45,000 until I was six minutes into this rent. But, yeah. So, guys, Will is going to be a multimillionaire. Here's the rule he used. Don't do something you don't understand. And that if it feels funny,

Starting point is 00:40:57 it's because it's funny. And for his financial advisor to be talking about single stocks and tax harvesting with him. After he's been listening to me since high school. He's like, that feels weird. Yes. There you go. The flag went up. And so this is a very wise 22-year-old.

Starting point is 00:41:14 Very wise. He recognized a few points that were off. He's trying to be cognizant. He's trying to be intentional. And probably trying to learn. He's trying to be on top of it. And then this guy comes in with this shiny penny. that's a plug.

Starting point is 00:41:28 Yeah, yeah. That's, yeah, so he's going, because he's intentional, because he's trusting his feelings, he's checking against what he knows to be true, all those kinds of things, he's going to be a multi-millionaire. He's going to do great. Yep. He's going to be amazing. But it won't be because he tax loss harvested on 45 grand.

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Starting point is 00:43:45 I'm great. Thanks, Dave. Thanks, Rachel. How can we help? Thanks for all you do for everyone with all your advice. My husband got $38,000 of inheritance money last summer, and he didn't tell me about it. he spent $20,000 on pornography with a little cyber affair. And he came clean finally and told me about it.

Starting point is 00:44:15 But he's going to be getting another $250,000 of inheritance money in a couple more years when his parents' home is sold. And he says that he is not going to be paying off my student loans when he gets that amount of money. So I guess my question is, do you think that he should help me with my student loans with his inheritance money? And should I get divorced if he refuses to? Wow. How long have you been married? We've been married for 12 years. and why are you more concerned about paying off your student loans than your husband having a porn problem these are two different things that shouldn't even be in like porn problem big deal inheritance

Starting point is 00:45:14 little problem yeah but him pinning her in a corner and i'm not feeling like being on the same team either how about he's a jerk on two or three fronts but um but i mean i i'd be a lot more concerned about the quality of your relationship with a guy that's treating you this way, then I would whether or not you get access to his inheritance. Yeah, I'm concerned about that. Are you all in counseling over his porn? Yeah, I talked them into counseling when he finally ran out of inheritance money to pay for porn. I think he might have used a few marital assets to pay for it, and then there was just

Starting point is 00:45:57 nothing left to pay for it. So he finally kind of came to his senses and finally agreed to go to counseling. How long ago was that? He just stopped the affair about two months ago. Okay. And how long have you all been in counseling? About three months. I knew about the affair during the first month of counseling, but I didn't realize.

Starting point is 00:46:28 When you said an affair, you met with pornography. Well, it was a specific person. It was a cyber affair with a lady on only fan. So I think he thought it was a real person, but he found out that it was, I mean, I've since then explained that it might just be a lady who sells her content and he was chatting with her thinking he was having a real relationship. But yeah, he basically built a relationship with this person. Yeah, and sending her nude photos and things like that. If you call lonely fans a relationship, prostitution is not usually relationship. But yeah. That's what it feels like to her. I mean, yeah, he's been freaking communicating with a woman. I mean, yeah, that is all in all.

Starting point is 00:47:09 Yes, Michelle. So Michelle, at this point, I don't feel like you have had time and the work you guys have done to rebuild any level of trust. And I think the sting is, he says, I'm going to still withhold money from you when I get it. And I'm not taking care of you. I'm not taking care of you on an emotional front. I'm not taking care of you on a financial front. Like all of that to me. is one problem and it's coming out multiple different ways and you're getting that feeling of

Starting point is 00:47:34 this doesn't feel right. None of this seems right. And it's all connected because it's all coming out of the root same issue in my opinion. And you've not had time to rebuild the trust, Michelle. I mean, it's only been too much. Well, there's no reason to rebuild the trust. He's still being a twerp. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, I mean, it was in the same conversation that he'd wasted all the money and then, you know, mentioned that he was not going to share the future inheritance with me. What did your counselor say about that? We've had a few different counselors. I mean, you had a counselor lately.

Starting point is 00:48:10 What's your latest counselor? You had this exact same discussion with them. What did they say? Well, the female counselor, she tends to side with the women, I'm guessing, but she said that it was... I had a female marriage counselor that was not siding with any women. I can tell you that. she was siding with the truth and would get up in your grill regardless of your sex yeah well her opinion was that uh the relationship was past repair okay is that

Starting point is 00:48:47 that your last counselor we did see one another counselor one time after that but i guess you saw one counselor after that one time. Yeah, we've seen four counselors in the past. Why did you leave the other lady? Because she said she couldn't help you. He was messed up. She just said that she would get a divorce if her husband did that to her.

Starting point is 00:49:17 And so I guess I just, I told my husband. You're not at the end of your rope to that point is what you're saying, Michelle. I could have continued with therapy, but it's just, it's been difficult because there's a lot of blaming the pornography on me and things like that. And saying, you know, because I was miserable to be married to me that I'm responsible for how he spent the money. Yeah, I can fix that. If you're miserable being married to me, I can fix that. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:49:54 Yeah. Well, he says that I'm bad with money. This guy has zero repentance, zero remorse. Rachel's right. It's what it feels like. Why? I mean, why would... He should be...

Starting point is 00:50:05 What gives you hope that he's just going to turn around? Why do you have hope? Well, he said he was sorry. He cried a couple tears and gave me a plate of cookies and... When was this? Before or after he was online with OnlyFans whore. Well, I actually filed for divorce because he refused to show me the credit card statement. Oh, wow.

Starting point is 00:50:29 And I knew that I would get access to... what he'd been hiding. He got really hostile when I asked about seeing the statement. It just popped in my head one day. I haven't been very good about checking where our money's been going. So I asked and he refused to give it to me, so I filed for divorce. And then a week later, knowing that I was going to find out anyway, he said he was sorry. And he came clean. He told me everything, but it was, you know, kind of under pressure knowing that I was going to find out anyway very soon. So I'm not sure if he's genuinely... No, he's not. No, he came clean because he got caught, not because he's

Starting point is 00:51:08 begging, begging for your marriage to be healed, Michelle. Yeah, it's not looking good right now. We're not professional counselors. We're just regular people sitting and listening to a lady whose heart is broken because her husband, his behavior is saying he's done. His mouth may see something else, but his behavior, as John Deloney says, behavior is a language. And every single bit of his behavior says he is not interested anymore. That's really sad. I'm so sorry.

Starting point is 00:51:40 I'm sorry. And I wish he would go to counseling with you and would be remorseful and repentant. And would do his own work and turn from his wicked ways and become a good husband. But it doesn't sound like he's going to based on what you told us. But don't make a decision based on calling a podcast. You make a decision sitting down with your past. and prayerful, sitting with a therapist who loves you and knows what's going on in your life. A couple goobers on a microphone don't need to make your decision for you.

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Starting point is 00:53:07 Guardian litigation only gets paid when the debt is negotiated and you accept the settlement offer. This isn't about shortcut. It's about dealing with the problem before it gets worse. Go to Guardianlit.com slash Ramsey today. That's Guardian-L-I-T dot com slash Ramsey today. Attorney advertising, results may vary and no specific outcomes guaranteed. So what about investing at the next level? I mean, we talk about the four mutual funds to put your 401K in

Starting point is 00:53:47 and good five to 10 to 20 year track records when you're picking those inside your 401k or your Roth IRA. But I mean, what about another level? When you get to Baby Step 7, what do you do? It can be really confusing. There's a lot of stuff to consider. So we've done a two-night virtual event two times. This is the third time we're doing it.

Starting point is 00:54:07 So we don't do it very often, in other words. And it gives you a simple strategy that you can feel confident in. It's investing essentials. It will be September 1st and 2nd. It is me and George Camel. and I'm going to unpack my personal playbook what I do for investing in wealth planning. What I do with real estate, how I pick my real estate, what I do with my mutual funds, how I do that. And I want to go through all the different categories and buckets of investing.

Starting point is 00:54:34 And some of them, why I don't do them and explain to you clearly. And then you get to pick out what you want to do, but I'm going to show you what I have done to get the net worth that I have today. And this year we've added a bunch of new content like getting out. of taxes, reducing taxes, navigating wheels and building a lasting legacy. We're going to get into the legacy piece a little deeper this year than we have before. People are always asking about this stuff. Like, how do I build wealth and not ruin my kids, that kind of thing? And so, ticket start at $1.99.

Starting point is 00:55:07 It's my playbook. Me and George are going to go through it. It's September 1 and 2. Get yours today that goes on sale today, right? This is the first announcement, right this second. Get yours today at Ramsey Solutions.com slash events or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. We'd love to have you. This is an online event.

Starting point is 00:55:26 It's only the third time we've done it. And we're changing up some of the content. If you've been at one of the other two, you'll get some fresh content. So a lot of fun stuff. I like working on new stuff like that. Alex's in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Hey, Alex, how are you? I'm doing well.

Starting point is 00:55:42 How about you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Yes, so my wife and I, we have some equity in our house, and our question would be, do we sell the house to take out the equity to pay off debt? Do you like your home? It's not my dream home. That wasn't what I asked. I said, do you like your home?

Starting point is 00:56:08 Is it a good house? Would you be selling it if you didn't have the debt problem? No, I would not. Okay. That's the bottom line. Okay. Now, how much debt do you have? Roughly $135,000. On what?

Starting point is 00:56:25 On student loans, credit cards. How much student loans? Student loans. My wife has about $28,000, and I got about $6,000. Okay. What else? Credit cards, how long? On credit cards, she owes $4,700. That's it. Okay. That's it.

Starting point is 00:56:51 How much on the cars? She owes $10,000 on her car, and we just bought a truck for $50,000. Good God. Well, I just, hold on. I love the, she owes $10,000, but we owe $50,000 for the truck. Her debt, her debt, but it's our debt for the truck. She's got $4,732 on a credit card, but we bought a $50,000. Somewhere around $50,000.

Starting point is 00:57:20 on a truck. That is pretty funny. We owe 47 on the credit. Okay. Yeah, that's fun. I love it. You're a good sport. All right. Now, so a 65, I'm still 100 short. I'm still a bunch short. Not 100 short. What else you're missing? Yes, sir. We have a home loan for roughly 33,000.

Starting point is 00:57:45 A home equity loan? Yes, sir. Okay. Do you have a first? mortgage as well? I guess I don't know. Okay. I mean, is that your only mortgage? You only owe $33,000 on your house?

Starting point is 00:58:02 No, sir. Oh, so our total debt would be we owe $135,000 in consumer debt, and my mortgage I owe $169,000. That, okay. All right. So 33 on a second mortgage on a home equity loan. I got you. All right. Yes, sir.

Starting point is 00:58:18 Yeah, that's about it. Okay. And your household income is what? Between 160 and 170. Okay. And how long y'all been married? Roughly five years. Okay, cool.

Starting point is 00:58:36 A little less of five years. That's kind of what it looks like in the numbers. It looks like you guys have been normal, and normal is we spend a little bit more than we make, and we see something we want, we buy it and put it on payments. And then you look up after five years, and you went, oh, crap, this is a mess. And that's normal. And that's what these numbers actually look like. They don't look like you've done anything extremely done with the possible exception of the truck.

Starting point is 00:59:01 But the rest of it was your death by 1,000 cuts. The only big one was the truck. Yes, and then the home loan, I got into a motorcycle accident. So I was put down for about six months. So we had to take out that. To live on. You didn't work for six months? Yes, ma'am.

Starting point is 00:59:21 Okay. Yes, sir. Wow. Okay. Well, cool. What do you do for a living? Yeah, I broke my femur. Right now, I did a transition, so I'm in project management for general contracting. Good, good for you. Okay. All right. And you're not in the motorcycle business anymore. That's gone, right?

Starting point is 00:59:41 Yes, sir. I got rid of all that stuff. Yeah, I bet. Okay. Alex, do you guys know, because we bring home what per month? Probably around 10? Yes. It depends. So my wife's a hygienist. So she depends on if she's able to secure temp shifts or not. And then we opened up a small business. We owned a little drink trailer selling dirty sodas, coffees, stuff like that.

Starting point is 01:00:08 So her temp shifts have stopped and now she's focusing more on her side business. So it's roughly between 8 to 10,000 to 10,000. Okay. And then how much does it take to keep you guys afloat on bare basics? You know, like to pay the mortgage, keep the lights on, pay insurance. Do what you need to do. Yeah, that number is egregious. It is a little less than $8,000.

Starting point is 01:00:34 Okay. Okay, so you're not going to like the prescription that the doctor is going to give you to fill out, okay, that you're going to have to go to the drugstore and pick up, but I'm going to give it to you, okay? Because I love you and I want you to win. And are you guys in your early 20s? Late 20s. Yeah, 29. Okay, yeah.

Starting point is 01:00:53 Because, I mean, you fit all the... the exact numbers. So this is where most people are. And it's not a fun place. Your own budget's tight. You don't have a lot of wiggle room. You're not blowing a bunch of money. You're not going out every night. You're not going on lavish vacations. You don't have all that. And you're also not making $170,000 a year if you're only bringing home eight. So something's screwed up in your numbers. But you need to get into this and figure out. Because what's really going on is you guys have just been sloppy. And so if I woke up in your shoes knowing what I know, I think you could be a millionaire in about 12 years from today.

Starting point is 01:01:29 And here's what I would do. I would sell your truck immediately. And I would get on a detailed written game plan budget on the every dollar app. And we're going to give you a premium version of that to get you started and not charge you. I want to get you in there. And the two of you sit down and figure out exactly how we are not making 170, because that's not $8,000 a month. No, I mean, they're probably bringing home $10,000.

Starting point is 01:01:58 No, $8,000 a month is $100,000 a year. They don't have $70,000 worth of missing money. No, he said $160. 160 to $170. And then they bring home around $8,000 a month. Which is $100,000 a year. There's a $60,000 or $70,000 gap there. That is not taxes on that, not even close.

Starting point is 01:02:16 Where's he from? Huh? New Mexico. It doesn't matter. Yeah, it does. There's no taxes of that level in any state. Well, there's no 50% tax is. taxes, okay?

Starting point is 01:02:25 It was a 50%? Well, it's 40. It's around 30? It's not going to be. Nowhere near. Nowhere near. You ought to be coming home with about 15 or 14, right in there. And yes, you should.

Starting point is 01:02:38 That's 140,000. That equals 150,000 without taxes. It's 144,000. And 170 minus taxes is going to be about 144. Okay. All right, okay. Run some numbers at the break. It'll help you.

Starting point is 01:02:49 I just think there are more. I think there's, no. People pay more in taxes and give credit for. I can't put you on hold, but I would if I could. Oh, Oh, I'll put your old calculator out. And we'd be looking at taxes right now. So anyway, I'm going to put you on a detailed every dollar budget where you have every dollar written down.

Starting point is 01:03:03 And you need to find out where your income's going because your numbers aren't adding up, regardless of if Rachel thinks they are. And then you need to sell your truck. And if you do those three things, I think you're going to see your way through this. You do not need to sell your house. You need to sell your truck. Hey, George Camel here. A few years ago, someone stole my identity. And let me tell you, that is not a quick fix. It takes hours on the phone, piles of paperwork, and a whole lot of stress trying to untangle the mess. And even after that, there's this nagging paranoia because your information is already out there. And the truth is, you can do all the right things and still become a victim. That's how common identity theft is. And that's why I'm glad I had Zander's identity theft protection. When my identity was stolen, their team stepped in right away. They were monitoring by information and caught the issue. And their U.S.-based recovery specialists help handle the calls, the papers.

Starting point is 01:04:08 paperwork, the cleanup, so I didn't have to do it all on my own. Zander also includes up to $2 million in stolen funds and expense reimbursement, and with the family plan, your kids are covered for free. You work too hard to let identity theft steal your time, your money, and your peace of mind. So go to zander.com to enroll today or call 800356-4282. Merriam is in Green Bay. Hey, Miriam, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Yes, how can we help? Thank you so much for taking my call. I'm wondering about how to look at getting a job for specific financial goals without it becoming my money, his money with my husband, and also to not, hopefully not express to my husband that I don't think he's providing enough.

Starting point is 01:05:35 So you want to get a job and do something with that money that's not part of what the family is. wants to do? To an extent. My husband isn't unsupportive of these ideas, but it's also like he's not excited

Starting point is 01:05:58 about it. What's the idea? What's the idea, Beth? What are you wanting to do? I'm sorry, Mary. I'm sorry, Mary. I'm apologizing. Everything from, I want counseling for myself, which also would be required for me to maintain a job

Starting point is 01:06:11 for various reasons. and I have some health things I want to get looked at that are expensive. I want, there's some random furniture that are not necessary that I would like to get. If I'm going to do that, I need to get a job in my head. There are some things like I would like more money to be put towards saving for a down payment or for vehicle replacement eventually. I'd like a little bit more buffer there. So things like that that I feel like, okay, these would be.

Starting point is 01:06:42 things I would really like to have. And if I'm going to, if we're going to do that, I should go get a job. But then I feel like I'm doing this and it's, it's, I don't want it to be me versus him and I don't want it to be my money, his money, but also I want to, he's a spender. And so he sees a bucket of money in the to be assigned category in our budget. And he's like, oh, we could put that. And I'm like, no, I want, my paycheck comes in. I want to put it like, this is exactly how I will delineate it and it'll never, it's just going straight into the categories. So there's not, you don't feel a lot of safety with your money when it comes to your differences with your husband?

Starting point is 01:07:23 Correct. Yeah. And you're wanting some safety. Have you expressed that part to him? To an extent, probably not enough. We have enough. But if things change, we don't. What does he make?

Starting point is 01:07:42 He makes about $43,000 a year. And what would you make at this job we're talking about? I'm looking for jobs that would pay either $20 an hour or at least $30,000 a year. Could you all have children? No, unfortunately. That's part of, that's the whole thing. Anyway. Okay.

Starting point is 01:08:13 Yeah, I mean, you guys are living on a tight budget at 43 for sure. So what do you do during the day? What's going on with you? Because you said something about having to keep a job. Are you not able to work? Emotionally, no. Hence, counseling is the highest line item. Okay.

Starting point is 01:08:37 Can I ask that? Sure. What's keeping you there? How to be concise. I have had a few jobs where I've been able to, where I currently lack the skill set to deal with backbiting and gossip and corporate shenanigans. And that's something that I want to work on in counseling. I have had very few jobs where that's not been an issue.

Starting point is 01:09:11 and they've either been me working for myself as a household cleaner. Because you easily get wrapped up into that. Is that what you're saying? Or when it happens, you're paralyzed. I let it bother me. Okay. I let it bother me. I just completely descend into dysfunction and hate everything about life because of it.

Starting point is 01:09:40 Okay, so no, I would not do your plan to answer your question, because it's not good for your marriage, it's not good for you. Instead, I would still accomplish exactly the same goals and do exactly the same thing, but do them in a different way. Okay, so yes, I'd go get a job, and yes, I'm going to add that income to the pool, and yes, I am one of two votes on this budget, and my vote is that some of our money that we make, and put in a pool is going to pay for my counseling. And yes, some of our money is going to go for this. And no, you're not going to blow money over here while I'm not being cared for with the counseling that I need. You're not going to blow money over here

Starting point is 01:10:24 while these health concerns have not been addressed. And no. And so we're both going to talk about this. And your vote doesn't count more than mine. They count the same. And so I'm willing to add. some money to the equation, but the equation is going to be that the two of us sit down and we plan out the money in the best way that is good for our lives. And our lives include me being

Starting point is 01:10:54 healthy emotionally and being healthy medically. And it includes us buying a stick of furniture every now and then. And it includes us getting out of debt. And it includes you having some fun too, whatever his fun bucket is, and those kinds of things. But we're going to have a written detailed every dollar budget that both of us agree to where every one of the dollars that both of us bring in are going. And we are going to become aligned as a couple on that. And then that accomplishes exactly the same thing. But the way you're going about it, bluntly, you're avoiding dealing with the weaknesses in your marriage. And I want you to go into those head on. And by the way, they're not deal breaker weaknesses. They're just normal.

Starting point is 01:11:39 people that hadn't ever sat down and done the conflict work of getting engaged in doing this together and getting aligned. And my hope is that your husband is not so sensitive to be able to look at the math and say, hey, here are some needs and wants that I have too. And in order to accomplish all of this, we probably need some more income. So I am going to go and make some more income. And that's not a shot to his providing or. We're going to go from 43 to 75. Yeah. And we're going to sit down and spend that money and it's going to include some of the care things that I need and some of the things that you need to do and then and some things that as a couple we need to work on like getting out of debt and building an emergency fund and some of those things but going over here and building

Starting point is 01:12:19 a separate life to accomplish your goals that don't include him supporting you and your goals um creates that you haven't done the work on the marriage at that point yeah because i mean the the ideal picture would be even with just as you're talking about you're talking about you're talking about talking about, you know, your struggles at work and counseling is that he's alongside you in that journey with you, right? Like, you're doing the work on yourself, but he's involved in conversations and encouragement and curiosity and ask, like, right, but when you start to divide, even from a financial standpoint, if I'm going to put this here, that's still one step of isolation of doing it on your own. All of this works in like a cohesive way, right? And so one follows the other

Starting point is 01:13:02 with the money and your goals and everything. So working together. So, so. So, So key, Miriam. So, yeah, I would push into that. It's probably going to be uncomfortable. It's a great question. And I appreciate the spirit the way you ask the question. Thank you for that. So, folks, when I started this stuff 30-something years ago, I thought this was a math problem,

Starting point is 01:13:23 that getting into debt was a math problem, that it was an income problem, that it was a spending problem. Those aren't the problems. Those are the symptoms. The problem is the guy. my mirror. The problem is the relationships with my employer, the relationships with my spouse, the relationships with my extended family. Those are where the problems are. The actual symptom is the money problem. The money issues are a symptom of other crap that we don't deal with,

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Starting point is 01:16:06 Three years worth of this show, books we've written, articles we've written, no sewage from Reddit will be mixed in. Just Ramsey answers, pure Ramsey answers. You'll get an answer the same way as if we answered it right here on the show. And it's completely free. It's an AI tool, but AI is driven by the data set that you put into it. And this data set is all Ramsey. So if you don't want a Ramsey answer, don't ask Ramsey.

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Starting point is 01:16:58 That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Amber in Rhode Island. She said, I'm about to pay off my car and currently have full cover. Once the car is paid off, should I lower the deductible, which would increase how much I pay every month or save the deductible into a separate savings account? It would wipe out most of our emergency fund if I had to use it for car repairs. No. I think I would be just getting full coverage. I would keep the full coverage. Anytime you can raise the deductible, a larger deductible, and you have the money in your emergency fund to come. it's going to drop your car insurance rates. Okay. And so the difference in a 250 and a 500 is huge. The

Starting point is 01:17:47 difference in a 500 and a thousand, depending on the price of the car, the value of the car is huge. And a way you can analyze it is this. Okay. If you go from $250 deductible to a $500 deductible, you're taking an additional $250 worth of risk. Divide that into the savings. And so if it saves you $25, then that's a year. That's 10 years. No, I wouldn't do that. If it saves you $250, then you made your money back in one year on the risk. So how much does the premium, the insurance premium drop as you raise the risk you're taking and compare those two?

Starting point is 01:18:37 And if it's, you know, if it's, if you can make your money, the risk money back, even though you don't actually spend the money out unless you have a wreck, if you can make it back in about three years, you ought to break even on the increased risk in about three years. So like I've got expensive cars and I carry, I think it's a $10,000 deductible now. But these are expensive cars. And so I, but it drops my deductible. I mean, drops my premiums way down. Okay. So, but. You know, so you just kind of got to look at that. And most of the time, the best deal on a $30,000 car and under is somewhere around a $500 or $1,000 deductible. Somewhere in there is what you're looking for. And so just divide out the difference.

Starting point is 01:19:25 The savings, take the savings on your premium, divide that into the additional risk. And if that's about a three, about a three-year risk pattern, you're probably, it's probably wise to take the higher deductible. in that case. But almost every time you're going to find that to be to work on going from 250 to 500. So no, you don't lower the deductible. We're always trying to raise deductibles and raise the amount we have in savings to cover it. So we're giving the insurance company less money. Insurance should cover catastrophes, not hang nails.

Starting point is 01:19:58 That's what you're looking for. And so the more, in anything you're doing, like if you can do a high deductible health insurance plan, like an HSA plan. Your premiums go way down on your health insurance when you do that because you're accepting the first five or seven or $10,000 worth of risk on the health insurance. And five or $10,000 is not going to cause you to bankrupt on a medical bill. What caused you bankrupt is $350,000 with a NICU stay with a baby or $350,000 with a heart bypass or a million or whatever it ends up.

Starting point is 01:20:35 That's the ones that break you. What you're covering is the big stuff on a car wreck, the big stuff on a health insurance, and the deductible is the little stuff. So as soon as you can keep enough of your insurance, your emergency fund up there, you want to do that, like Rachel said. Larry is in Nashville. Hi, Larry. How are you? I'm good, Dave.

Starting point is 01:20:56 I'm retired. My pension income covers my monthly expenses. I have about $4,000 in the bank. I do not have anything to cover my burial expense. Should I get a low amount term life insurance policy to cover that burial? You're how old? I'm 80. And you have $4,000 to your name.

Starting point is 01:21:28 Yes. Do you own a home? No. And you're living on pension and Social Security? Are you renting, Larry? Yes. Okay. What's your income?

Starting point is 01:21:48 About $3,600 a month. Okay. And you sound a lot younger than 80 on the phone. I'm telling you. Okay. Thank you. Congratulations. Yeah, I just turned 80, and I just got divorced.

Starting point is 01:22:07 Oh, okay. I'm sorry. Wow. What a thing to do at 80. You have children? Yes, adult children and some adult grandchildren. And neither of my two children are in financial need. I don't need to think about leaving them something when I die,

Starting point is 01:22:37 except to pay for my burial. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, I would not spend a ton of money, but if you can find a little $10,000 policy through your checking account at the bank or something like that. It's going to say your life insurance probably will not be the best way, just because of your age. That's not my favorite way of doing it, but that's one way you could do it. The second thing that comes to mind is to add a little bit to the $4,000 as we go along. You don't have tons of room in this budget, obviously.

Starting point is 01:23:08 but if you can add a little bit to it and then arrange for, you know, go ahead and do some shopping on an inexpensive funeral process, cremation or an inexpensive burial. I mean, we're looking for the Chevrolet casket, not the Cadillac casket, you know, that kind of stuff, right? And so what can we do for $5,000 and just assign that money to that issue? Don't prepay it, but, you know, kind of pre-pay. detail it, pre-plan it, to where you know that you've got it covered. And, you know, if you can get really, really close with your cash, I would prefer to do that. And even if you added another thousand to it and you say, okay, $5,000 is the emergency fund and the ultimate emergency is my funeral

Starting point is 01:24:00 expenses so that I'm not a financial burden to the kid or the grandkids. How, wow. But it, You know, if for $5 or $10 a month, I don't think you can. But if you could find something like one of these gimmick type policies that are guaranteed issue, I don't know what they would cost at 80. But they're obviously to have to be guaranteed issue. It's not standard term insurance. Standard term insurance won't write you. But this would be like something that came with a checking account or something that came

Starting point is 01:24:33 through an association you used to belong to because you were a teacher or whatever. or something like that. But their little gimmick policies is what they are and they're guaranteed issue, no medical. And if, you know, $10 or something you want to do that, it's not my favorite thing, though. I would rather just arrange pre-detail and plan out and have the cash to cover that. That's A. B would be to get an inexpensive issue, non-medical pre-issue. Yeah, average funeral costs around $7,000 to $12,000.

Starting point is 01:25:07 Yeah, that's average. But, I mean, you can do it. You can do a, like a cremation. I mean, yeah. You get a casket for two, funeral home services, too, and that's close to your 5,000. Costco's got caskets. Yeah. George Camel, actually mentioned that.

Starting point is 01:25:21 Yep. He loves Costco. And he... I walk by my... I think it was $1,800 when I walk by it. Yeah. I think that's right. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio.

Starting point is 01:25:55 Beth is in Tulsa. Hey, Beth, how are you? I'm good. How are you all? Better than we deserve. What's up? Wonderful. So my husband and I are expecting our first child next month. Yay! Thank you. And we recently paid off all of our debt in April.

Starting point is 01:26:14 Yay! And for you guys. So we're both contractors, and we are paying for the birth and cash because we don't have access to health insurance. So as soon as we paid off the debt, started tucking money back. but I recently found out that I'm having a few mild health concerns. So I just went from full to part time, which means all that extra parameter we had and our monthly snowballs now disappeared. So my question is,

Starting point is 01:26:41 how do I deal with the guilt of choosing to take less money, knowing it would slow us down so I can prepare for this baby? You don't, I mean, from what you just described, I feel like you don't have much of a choice, right? I mean, you're eight months pregnant. You're having some health stuff, so you have to slow down for the health of you and your baby, right? Yeah. Welcome to mom guilt number one.

Starting point is 01:27:07 I mean, like, I feel like there's not really an option, Beth. I feel like that's what you have to do. And that's way more important than money you'll make in a month. How much would you make in a month extra above what you're going to make now if you were able to go full of it? Probably about 25, 2,700. Okay. It's real simple. One side of the scale, $2,700.

Starting point is 01:27:33 Other side of scale, healthy baby. No question. Okay. No guilt. Zero. Even if you guys were in debt. If you could write a check for the health of your child for $2,700, you'd do it in a heartbeat. Yeah, absolutely.

Starting point is 01:27:48 I'm sorry. What did you say, Rick? Yeah. No, I was just saying even if you had debt and you guys had to pause the debt snowball for your last month of pregnancy. you're okay. You know what I mean? Like you are by all means good to do this. So. Yeah, no, you have to do it. It's what everybody's telling you. What were you doing for work? You said you're a contractor. What type of contractor were you? Yeah. So I'm in sales and marketing.

Starting point is 01:28:10 Uh-huh. Okay. You're really good at what you do, probably. I think so. So I do wonder just like as a working mom to working mom that you're, I mean, not in a deep way, and I'm not putting this on you, but there's an identity. shift that happens and when your sudden value that you're bringing to the table comes to a screeching halts and you're no longer in that world providing that value you're like whiplashed over to this new role as mom as you are right carrying this baby there probably is a level of yeah of just time money value whiplash that you're probably going through to a degree if you're really good at what you do and you're passionate you love your job and you're a hard driver and suddenly that

Starting point is 01:28:53 stops. I think that can be sometimes a little hard just to kind of find that balance again. Yeah, I agree. And I think the hard part for me as well is my husband and I have worked so harder for the last two years being so gazelle intense. And it feels like we haven't taken a step back if we paid off all that debt. But it does kind of feel like a step back watching all that extra parameter just disappear out of the budget. Yeah. That's normal. That's normal. But again, you just say, what's the tradeoff? The tradeoff is a good trade. You're not trading and saying, I want to be lazy and sit in the backyard and drink soda water.

Starting point is 01:29:39 Right. You know, that's not what we're doing. We're delivering a human being. The highest calling of either one of you, you and your husband. It's the best thing you can do. it's much better than getting out of debt. Thank you. That's a very good perspective. Yeah. Thank you.

Starting point is 01:29:58 Very good. Good for you guys. Yeah, and Beth, and you probably would be one of these couples that we talked to who are on like Baby Step 7 in a few years. And you're like, I still just, we can't spend money. We don't know how to spend money. We can't slow down. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 01:30:12 It's a good exercise just to slow down. You're good. You are good. This money stuff, this money stuff is here to create a life that you guys love. it's a tool in your life. It's not something to be worshipped or to place all this value in, right? It's here to support you, not be the thing in your life. And so you guys have done an excellent job up into this point of getting out of debt, driving hard, having a goal, doing all of it, so that you can have peace right now because you guys are debt-free. You did it.

Starting point is 01:30:42 Hey, go to Health Trust also at Ramsey Solutions.com. Hook up with our advertiser and get some health insurance. Okay. Y'all don't need to be walking around without health insurance. That's going to, now that could blow things up. That could be a mess. And it's not going to cover labor and delivery at this point, but it actually could cover other things that happened at the birth. There's something other than just normal labor and delivery happened.

Starting point is 01:31:10 So you need to get in touch with health trust and let them search you out some health insurance. And you can find how to connect with them on the website, easy enough. And so, yeah, for sure. Don't be walking around health insurance. But anyway, aside from that, that's not the issue here. The issue here is just margin and tradeoffs. And I appreciate your question. It's got a good heart.

Starting point is 01:31:33 And congratulations. You're out of debt and you're having a baby. Life is great. This is about as good as it gets. Kevin's in Milwaukee. Hey, Kevin, what's up? Hey, Dave, by Rachel. Thanks for taking my call.

Starting point is 01:31:43 Sure. How can we help? Yeah, so I actually just recently got let go from my job. should I apply for unemployment or just work side hustles to supplement the income until I find a new job? I'd work side hustles. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. You're more employable. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:32:04 You walk different and you talk different when you walk into the interview if you're not sitting at home collecting a government check. Okay. That's what I like to hear. Yeah. What were you making? Because I was making about $76,000. Why were you let go? Just wasn't aligned with my skills.

Starting point is 01:32:27 I recently just found out out of a passion for sales. And I'm 30 years old, and I'm just ready to get after it. Okay. Good news is if you've got a passion for sales, there's always work to be done. Absolutely. Yeah, Henry Ford said nothing happens until somebody sells something. It's like it's the highest paid. profession on the planet.

Starting point is 01:32:50 And if you're good and you're on commission, you can kill it. Yeah. You get in a high quality product that you're proud of and that's really serving the customer and they're really, their life is better because you're selling it and you pour on some passion and some enthusiasm. And you get in there and smile and love people and serve them well by making sure they get a hold of that high quality, high margin product and you will get rich. And you should.

Starting point is 01:33:16 It's a great profession. highly recommended. So I'm glad you found that passion and you get to prove it now by your side hustles too. Pick up some side hustles. You got something to do with marketing or sales. Sales aspect. Yeah, don't be driving Uber. Let's go, let's go be doing something and move that. Take that same passion and, you know, do the other. And meanwhile, get to work. I'm going to send you a copy of Coleman's book, Proximity Principle, which will help you land that next job too. Wow. It's good. Good luck, Kevin. Yeah, that's going to be great. It's going to be amazing. This is a guy who's leaving 76,000 is going to end up making 100 after being let go. Isn't that a great phrase?

Starting point is 01:33:55 Like he was being held captive. We let him go. It was a butterfly and he was in a jar and we let him go. Hey guys, Rachel Cruz here and I love summer. There is more fun on the calendar, more time with your people and way more chances to make memories. But you know what else there's more of? spending. Oh, between the extra groceries and gas and camp fees and family trips, it all starts to add up so fast. And before you know it, money stress starts to steal the fun out of everything.

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Starting point is 01:35:51 Our every dollar budgeting app helps you find extra money every month and build you a personalized plan to beat debt and build wealth. In just 15 minutes, you're going to find thousands of dollars in hidden margin and you're going to feel like you've got to raise. Don't be normal anymore, especially when you can live like no one else. Start every dollar for free in the app store or Google Play. Kyle is with us in New York City. Hey, Kyle, how are you?

Starting point is 01:36:16 Hey, Dave. Hey, Rachel, how are you? Better than we deserve. What's up? So my question is, I am 26 years old. I make 100,000 pre-tax each year, and I'm currently working on baby step six. So I've worked my butt off my entire life to be able to save up money. I feel like I'm doing pretty okay for myself,

Starting point is 01:36:39 but a lot of people are in my ear, colleagues, friends, family, telling me I'm working too hard. I'm missing out on some of the best years of my life. Do you agree with that sentiment? What are you missing out on? These are the same people that are taking vacations every year, several vacations, new iPhone, new Apple Watch every year. That's how you define living life well as an Apple Watch?

Starting point is 01:37:05 But if I'm lucky enough to be an old man one day, I don't want to look back and say, you know, I didn't have an Apple watch? No, no. Is it time for me to start letting off the gas a little bit? I don't know. How many hours a week are you working? So currently, I already kind of cut back a little bit. I'm currently pushing between 55 and 65 hours a week depending on like an on-call schedule. Okay. But from the ages of 15 to 22, I was working three jobs just trying to get ahead.

Starting point is 01:37:42 But you're not now. 80 hours a week. You're not now. So what? I worked a lot of hours, too, but I'm not now. So what's the problem? I mean, now you're working 55, 60 hours. Most people that are successful work 55 or 60 hours.

Starting point is 01:37:56 There's no 30-hour-a-week successful people. Yeah, but you could work a 40-hour work week and do well with the baby steps. do well, but I mean, if you want to have success, you're not going to do it on 30 or 40 hours. You're going to put the coals on a little bit. That's part of life. Oh, well. And so my biggest thing is before I really decide to let off the gas and start taking a little more easy, spoiling myself, I want to get the house paid off. Okay.

Starting point is 01:38:26 How much you owe you on the house? I owe $2.49. Okay. Well, here's the thing. You can't let other people decide what you want, what they want for you to. be your deal. You need to decide what you want. And listen, when you're 72, you're not going to go, oh, I wish I'd have had an iPhone when I was 30. That doesn't come up. Okay. But now if there's people that you love that you're not spending time with, you need to do that and turn off Netflix.

Starting point is 01:38:56 If there's, you know, if you need to go on one vacation, there's nothing wrong with that. Go on a vacation. You know, you're single, you said, right? No, I am in a relationship, not married, though. Okay. Well, I mean, you know, if that relationship is starving for lack of water, then put some water on it. But that's not, you know, that's not what you said. You said people are saying you should take more vacations like they do, and they're broke. Yeah, mostly families are saying you're missing out on an iPhone watch.

Starting point is 01:39:33 Oh, my God. And, you know, what I keep justifying it as is, you know, I'm going to be on cruise control, relaxing when they're all, you know, still stuck in the rap race one day. But I really don't want to grow old and think, you know, you were working three jobs when you were an 18-year-old. These are people that confuse leisure with happiness. Leisure does not equal happiness. Leisure is a good thing. It's a time to reboot, reset, replenish, replant. leisure is good travel is good for that reason you know go sit somewhere and put your feet in the

Starting point is 01:40:13 sand or whatever read a book there's nothing wrong with that reset that's why we have a sabbath once a week we don't work on sundays you know that's that's people of faith do that that's leisure and that's time for your spirit to reset your body to reset physically and time to make sure your relationships are blossoming but but people who just don't want to work are not models you want to follow. Well, that and Kyle, on both ends of the spectrum in this call so far, you've been talking about people on the front end. It was like, well, people are telling me I should relax. And then your motivation on the other end is, but I just know if I work hard and I do all of this, they will, they'll be trying to work hard and I'll be good over here. It's all, yeah, it's a lot of people,

Starting point is 01:40:53 people, people. I would just put the blinders on Kyle. Be happy for everyone else. That's fine. They can do what they want to do. They can buy their iPhone watch and do all that stuff. But what you need to do is focus on what what makes you happy Kyle what do you want to enjoy do you want to say yeah for the next two years I'm going to pull back some work hours and work 50 hours not 65 and have some more time you know with with my girlfriend and you know I'm going to do this and that and then I'll probably plug back in here and try this I mean make a life you want Kyle not for everybody else and not for the motivator of what other people are going to do or not do or what they're saying or not saying Rachel said in more of her one of her number one bestselling books

Starting point is 01:41:35 comparison is the thief of joy. Well, I think, I think Theodore Roosevelt said that. Oh, did it? You quoted it. I know, I quoted it. But I will say, comparison will not just... Yeah, almost got the quote changed just then. Will not just steal your joy. I did say it will not just steal your joy. It'll still your paycheck, too, because you'll end up spending money, aka Kyle, on all this stuff that other people talk about and what other people want, and it steals

Starting point is 01:41:59 your joy in your paycheck. So... And they're chasing happiness up a tree that hadn't got it. There's no happiness fruit. on that tree. So I never met us all in 30 years or 40 years of doing financial coaching. He goes, you know, I'm so happy I finally got an eye wolf on the watch. No, it's called an Apple Watch. A happy Apple Watch, whatever it is. I mean, it's stupid thing. I mean, it's like I'm so happy I got that car. That car changed my life. That house changed my life. That's the dumb thing

Starting point is 01:42:25 when people say, it's not my dream home. None of them are. Well, as soon as you get in there, your dreams will change. So there's no such thing as a dream home. That's just a dream. That's not real. And so it's just a stupid house. If your happiness is defined by where you live, you will never be happy. If your happiness is defined by what you wear or where you travel to, you will never be happy. Because happiness is a bully in the schoolyard.

Starting point is 01:42:54 It says, cross this line and then we'll fight. And you step across the line. He steps back and draws another line. It says, come on over here. And then come on over here. Yeah, it's funny. It's perpetually chasing something. that's not there.

Starting point is 01:43:06 Well, and Arthur Brooks. It's not where meaning comes from. Yeah. And Arthur Brooks, who literally studies this when it comes to the brain. Yes, happiness with money. He says four things will give you happiness with money.

Starting point is 01:43:16 One will not. Giving money away brings happiness. Buying your time back and actually letting, you know, and using that time for good. Spending it on experiences with people you love. That brings you levels of happiness. And actually saving creates happiness because there's a actual progress happening

Starting point is 01:43:34 in your life and your brain sees that as joy. The thing that will never bring levels of happiness long term that sustain is buying stuff. So buying stuff is not bad. We're not against buying stuff by any means. But it's the belief, yes, that I need to go and enjoy. Now, do you need to enjoy? Yeah, sure. But to think that that's the end goal of all of this, you've missed the point. And you said it earlier, and I think it is true, when you actually find work that you do enjoy, and you have fun with, it doesn't feel like this trap that you have to go to Monday through Friday as well. So there's a balance in all of it. And I think you need to find your balance, Kyle, in this part of your life.

Starting point is 01:44:16 You've worked hard. You don't have debt. You got your emergency funds. You're in the baby steps or you don't have to be gazelle intents. You can enjoy some of it. But also run your own race, Kyle, not for everybody else. Yeah, the friends and family don't get a vote. Some of the happiest people I know are some of the hardest working people I know.

Starting point is 01:44:32 they're really, really happy. And they're not confused, and their friends and family don't get a vote. You should not feel uncertain about investing, and you don't have to. That's why we created investing essentials, a two-night virtual event where George Camel and I walk you through my playbook for investing and wealth planning. will simplify everything from 401k's and mutual funds to passing on wealth so you can invest with confidence. Tickets start at $199. Get yours today at ramsysolutions.com slash events or click the link in the show notes. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Scott and Kim are with us.

Starting point is 01:46:16 Hey, guys, how are you? Hey, we are great and it's an honor to be here today, Dave. We're honored to have you. Where do you guys live? We live in Applegate, California. It's about 50 miles east of Sacramento. Ah, that's a beautiful area. Up in the Frials, yeah. That's a pretty area. Very cool. Welcome to Nashville. And here to do a debt-free scream. How much have you paid off?

Starting point is 01:46:37 We paid off $420,000, Dave. Whoa. Oh, my gosh. How long did that take? It took about 10 years once we got focused. Okay, that's good. And your range of income over that decade? A range of income was about 160 to start, and we wrapped up at about 260. Okay, very cool. What do y'all do for a living?

Starting point is 01:47:04 I get people ready for the workday, Dave. I work for a company called Cintos, and I'm a service manager. Gotcha. And I am officially retired after 36 years of teaching. Wow. What did you teach? Mostly fifth grade, four, fifth, and sixth. Oh, there are angel wings on your back. God bless you. As a mom with little ones in those grades, we love you, teacher. So thank you.

Starting point is 01:47:30 Very cool. Congratulations. Good for you. So four 20 over 10 years in the valley outside. That's a house and everything, isn't it? Yes, it is, sir. Way to go, guys. Whoop, whoop, look at weird people.

Starting point is 01:47:44 We're weird. No payments. No payments at all. How does it feel to not have a stinking payment of any kind? Man, it's still surreal. We just did this in April, and, man, it feels great, but we're still getting used to it. I love it. You got two months without a mortgage payment.

Starting point is 01:48:02 That feels amazing. How long y'all been married? 36 years. Have you ever been without a payment? No. Had a payment the whole time, of some kind. Whole time until April. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:48:12 Wow. Constantly. In fact, we thought that was the way of life. Oh, yeah, everybody does. It's normal. Wanted something we bought it. Did you guys? Did you guys have a consumer debt journey as well besides just the house?

Starting point is 01:48:22 Oh, absolutely. Yeah. How much was in there? How much was consumer debt? About half of it. So, well, half of it, we also had some unfortunate IRS debt and some student loans. But a lot of it was credit cards and a car payment and all that stuff. So you got that cleared up and then went after the house?

Starting point is 01:48:40 Yes. Right down the baby steps. Yes. Oh, yeah. Follow them to a T. In 10 years. So the house is worth what now? The house is worth about $6.50?

Starting point is 01:48:48 Okay. And how much in your nest egg for retirement at this point? Just over a million dollars. So a million six net worth at least, million seven. Way to go, y'all. You're millionaires. You're millionaires. Who is that? And we're weird. We work at Sent us and we were a teacher and we're millionaires. Getting ready to be multi-millionaires. Wow, that's so impressive. I'm proud of y'all. Well done. How old are you?

Starting point is 01:49:13 I'm 62. 60. All right. And retired. Good job. I am. I know, I know. I heard it. I like it. I'm going to keep at it for a while, Dave. I like working, so I'm going to keep doing it. Good for you. I love it. I love it. So what happened 10 years ago that you guys said, gosh, we got to be weird. We got to change the way we've been doing our money. You know, we were just, we were starting to feel it. So we had a lot of payments. We were doing silly things like paying off credit cards with credit cards and just feeling the weight of it. And I mentioned it to my brother. He mentioned

Starting point is 01:49:48 the show. I didn't jump into it right away, but I was driving home from work one day flipping through the stations and stumbled on this guy talking about getting out of debt, and I was hooked. And so I came home and told Kim about it, and we jumped right in. We set up our envelopes and beans and rice, rice and beans. Yeah. Wow. Although I really think that it should be grits and collard greens. Now that I'm here.

Starting point is 01:50:18 Change it up. Now that you're in the South. Now that you're in the South. Welcome to the Promise Luce. Wow. Okay, so was that all around 10 years ago? Were you guys around that 50 year old 50 year mark of age? Okay.

Starting point is 01:50:30 Which I think is so encouraging for people because some people get on the stage, you know, and they're in their early late 20s and it's unbelievable. They're doing it right away. But it's so good to see and hear from couples that you're like, no, we, yeah, you guys were in your 50s. And you're like, you know what? We're still going to, we still have the ability to change. Yes. And do something different, which I think is so encouraging for people that you can make that big of a jump.

Starting point is 01:50:49 And the student loan was for our younger son. We have two boys. Now we have three granddaughters. And he's actually right now, he's debt-free. They're following the program as well. And he is getting his doctorate at the University of Georgia. So it's really cool that we're here. It's awesome to see her.

Starting point is 01:51:10 Our new little baby. Full circle. I love it. Yeah. Awesome. Well, congratulations, you guys. Thank you. All right.

Starting point is 01:51:17 Now that you did it, 10 years, you busted it, got rid of the consumer debt, baby steps one through three, then you did four through seven, getting out, you know, investing, and now you got a million dollars in investments, $650,000 paid for house, your baby steps millionaires. You did all of that basically in a decade from mess to multimillionaire in a decade. Yes. That's very cool when you think about that. and that's very hopeful for other people. What do you tell people the secret was that caused you to be able to do that?

Starting point is 01:51:49 Stop borrowing money. Don't buy it unless you have the money to pay for it and invest when you can. And have fun, free. There's so many things that you can do that don't cost any money, you know. Go out, spend time with your elderly. I just spent some time with an elderly woman that's next to our Airbnb. And she said, you know, first of all, once. I was like totally enthralled with all of the fireflies.

Starting point is 01:52:16 Oh my gosh, you have fireflies, you know. Never a sudden one before. She said, go out and take your elderly people outside of their house. And that's solely free. Yeah. Go and serve. There's so much that you can do where it doesn't cost money and it just opens up your heart and it makes you feel really good.

Starting point is 01:52:36 I love that. Beautiful. So good. Spoken like a good fifth grade teacher right there. I know. I know. I know. It's so good.

Starting point is 01:52:42 Okay, so what was the hard part of the decade when you look back and you're like, oh, man, that was tough? That part sucked. Yeah, we had to really tighten it up and it did suck. Getting my nails done? Mm-hmm. Yeah, cutting out some stuff. We had to cut out a lot of stuff and just living tight, passing on trips and dinners and things like that when friends wanted to do things. And you regret it?

Starting point is 01:53:05 I do not. Not at all. I don't either. Okay. Not at all. Live like no one else. So later you get to live and give. like no one else.

Starting point is 01:53:13 Absolutely. And here you are. Yep, yep, yep. Way to go. Well, I'm so proud of you guys. You're inspiring people. Way to go. Way to go.

Starting point is 01:53:20 All right. From working at Sentice and a fifth grade teacher in 10 years, they pay off 420,000, house and everything, putting them in place mathematically to be multimillionaires at 60 years old. Pretty stinking incredible, making 160 to 260. With a retiree. And then retired. And then retired. And then retired.

Starting point is 01:53:42 we go. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one, we're dead-free. You know what they didn't need? They didn't need a government handout. You know what they didn't need? They didn't need a universal income. You know what they didn't need? All this stuff that everybody talks about that someone else is going to give you. Instead, they just went to work and went to work didn't go into debt. Get out of debt. Ten years later, they go from $420,000 in debt, house and everything, to no debt, to multimillionaire. So they're 165 today, so they'll be at two, and if they hadn't already got some other assets, putting them up at two right now.

Starting point is 01:54:44 So a couple million dollar baby steps millionaires. This is where they come from. They followed the baby steps. Exactly. They didn't call me up and go, well, I don't know. And I, hey, yeah, yeah. We didn't hear any of that whining. We didn't hear any of this.

Starting point is 01:54:57 I want to go, I'm tired. I want to go on vacation. Nobody called, they just did it. And did you hear that they regretted it? No, they don't. You know what they can do now? Anything they want. They don't have any payments.

Starting point is 01:55:14 They have a million dollars in retirement. Shut up. These people are heroes. This is how it's done right here. And so don't please don't tell me you're not willing to pay a price to win. They're standing in front of you saying it's worth it. Pay a price and you'll win. Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here.

Starting point is 01:56:09 Every day on this show we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles. use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to Ramsey Solutions.com and try Ask Ramsey Today. That's Ramsey Solutions.com. Our scripture of the day, 1 John 318, dear children, let us not love with words or speech, but with actions and in truth. Thomas Sowell said, people say you're a very tough

Starting point is 01:57:09 person. I'm not tough. Life is tough. I'm merely trying to acquaint you with the facts. Ivy is in Greensboro, North Carolina. Hi, Ivy. How are you? Hey, good. Hey, what's up? So, sorry, my brain went the most. I'm calling because, so I inherited a house from my dad who didn't raise me. and I didn't know him until I was like a preteen. And he lived in a different state than me. And later in life, we reconnected when I was an adult. And he ended up raising.

Starting point is 01:57:57 How long ago did he pass? Okay, so he passed four years ago, but his wife married him two years before he passed, So she became the life tenant, and I was the remainderman. So I didn't have any financial obligation to this house until this week. And so... So she passed away? She did, yes.

Starting point is 01:58:23 Okay. Where is the house? It's in Florida. And what's it worth? The local comp say $350. And what's owed on it? $92,000. What do you plan to do with it?

Starting point is 01:58:38 it. So that's where I'm not sure, but like, I've been praying on it since I found this out on Wednesday because it was a very emotional situation because the girl that my dad raised, who's like 10, 12 years younger than me, she came into his life when he had remarried the first, like the first time. And then her mom went and did her own thing and he raised this girl. And when he passed four years ago, she sent me all these really hateful text messages that because she couldn't believe that that he left the house to me and not her. And she demanded I signed it over. And I just responded as nice as possible. And I kind of pulled a Dave Ramsey move where you kind of just say, I'm sorry you're going through this.

Starting point is 01:59:32 I know it's hard. And I just defaulted to those sentences. And then I just stopped communication. And then so she's continued living in the house with the lady that passed away. So now she's in the house, but the house is my house. And it's like totally mine. There's no probate or nothing. It's a done deal.

Starting point is 01:59:58 I understand. So you need. How old is she? How old is she? I think she's roughly 29 and I'm 41. Okay. So here's what you need to do. Okay.

Starting point is 02:00:07 Stop just a second. Okay. This person, the longer they stay, the bigger the problem's going to be. So instantaneously you need to reach out to her. Like as soon as you get off the phone and say, I'm getting ready to put the house on the market. And so you're going to have to make other plans to move. If you haven't moved by the end of the month, my attorney will. will be in touch with you.

Starting point is 02:00:35 Yeah, so that's, like, the advice that some family members are given and then some other families are given. Why does that make you cry? You don't even know her. Because other people are saying, well, this can be an income investment, do this, do this. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. You don't need this house and you don't need this trouble. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:00:56 And so even, like, kicking her out breaks my heart because, like, I've been praying on this, and I tried to think, like, I feel like my dad's. left this to me because I feel like he had a lot of regret and we were getting it. It doesn't matter why he left it to you. The bottom line is it's yours. And it's yours to do with as you want. And there is no point in this conversation that this 29 year old needs to live there anymore. They've lived there for free for 10 years longer than they should have because their mother was there. This is a 19 year old who was free-loading for a decade on her mother. It's not even her mom, I don't think.

Starting point is 02:01:38 It was like the next wife or something. Yeah. So that's even more. This is very weird. It's even more of a dysfunctional issue, Ivy, okay? So please, take a deep breath, just be kind and be very quick. Yeah. I just, I know it seems so simple because you're Dave Ramsey, but emotionally.

Starting point is 02:02:01 I don't know why it's emotional. You don't even know. her. You don't even know the house. Because I know the Lord. That's why it's emotional. The Lord doesn't make it emotional. I know the Lord too, but it doesn't make it emotional. Well, I had considered this. This is what I considered. And I'd been praying and praying. And I woke up yesterday and I just felt this thing that said, here's the solution. Okay. What's the solution?

Starting point is 02:02:28 Is that the market value in the comps are $3.50. And I thought, maybe I offer to her for $275 and give her a deal, and then I still have enough to pay my own house off, because I followed all the baby steps since 2018. I have a whole library of all of y'all's books, and I have racial prisons. That's fine if you want to do that. That's not what I would do.

Starting point is 02:02:55 Okay. You can do that if you want to do that. If you feel like that's the Lord, I don't know if that's the Lord or you're just being sweet and guilt-ridden over something you didn't even. I don't know why I should have guilt. I don't think I have guilt. I don't know why you offer this girl a dime.

Starting point is 02:03:13 It's not like she's ever going to be happy with you. Yeah. If you give her the freaking house for free, she's still going to be a biotch. I feel like she lost the dad that I never had in as much as it paid me to lose them. I try to think. The house hasn't got anything to do with that. Yeah, you're right. And writing her a check doesn't have anything to do with that.

Starting point is 02:03:34 Those are two separate issues. writing her a check does not make her have the dad or the didn't have the dad or you had the dad or didn't have the dad checks don't fix any of that that was the dad okay money doesn't change that so you i'm telling you if you play with this girl you're going to be dancing with her for the next five years if you give her one quarter you're going to be dancing with her but you do what you want if you feel like that's god i'm not positive if it is or isn't god i don't ever I sometimes challenge people when they play the God card, but you said, I heard that in prayer, okay, is what you said.

Starting point is 02:04:11 That's God. And so if you think that's God, you should do, you should be real sure that it's God, and then you should do what God said, not what Dave said. But I'm not positive if it is or isn't. I don't see any biblical principle that says that you ought to do that. I think this is a dysfunctional mess. I know you're a tough love. It's not tough love.

Starting point is 02:04:33 It's not tough love. It's just love. And it's just accepting the reality of who this woman is. She is not going to be okay because of this house transaction, regardless of how the house transaction goes down. I agree. I agree, Ivy. I think your heart is in a really great place, just in a sense of you are genuinely looking out. But also, scripture talks a lot about wisdom running away from foolish situations.

Starting point is 02:05:03 I mean, there's, you could back it up the other way, too. with scripture if you wanted to play that game, right? I mean, you could. And so again, if you feel like you have a conviction, there's something deep in your soul and your spirit is moving, yes, you can follow it. But also, when we look at the facts of everything you just said in the six-minute call, the mess that you're probably going to end up being in with her for the, exactly right, for the next couple of years is what I was thinking in my head. I'm like, oh, Ivy's going to be attached to this girl forever, because she's trying to be nice. And it's almost like this codependence of I have to make her okay with this.

Starting point is 02:05:40 And you can never make her okay. It's just that's not going to happen. And she's 29 years old, Ivy. That's why I ask her age. If she's 18, I feel for the girl and be like, all right, let's figure out a way to set her up well in life. What a gift that's a, she's 30 years old. And has lived for free. She's 30 years old.

Starting point is 02:05:58 With a woman who isn't even her mother. Why don't, why does she go buy her own condo? Like she's like, let her figure it out. That's not your problem. That's not your problem. And the fact of how hateful she is, all of it, it's a, it's a, I would put up a boundary with her. You're not related to her.

Starting point is 02:06:16 She's not part of your life. Like, this is crazy. You need to be out of the house by the end of the month or our attorney will remove you. And then we will sell the house. And then we will move on with our lives. All of us. And that's what I would do. Very simple.

Starting point is 02:06:32 That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you. before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

The Ramsey Show - Financial Chaos Doesn't Have to Define Your Future

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