The Ramsey Show - Financial Peace Starts With Personal Honesty

Starting point is 00:00:02 Brought to you by the Every Dollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm your host Dave Ramsey, Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality, number one bestselling author,

Starting point is 00:00:30 co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour on Ramsey Networks, and my daughter is my co-host today. Open phones here at AAA-8-2. 5-2-2-5. The call is free, and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. Logan is in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Hey, Logan, what's up? Hey, how are you doing today? Better than I deserve. How can we help, sir? I started a business 18 months ago. I've been working 70 to 100 hours a week. Right now, we're barely breaking even.

Starting point is 00:01:03 I have two full-time jobs, and I have a seven-week-old at home. So I'm wondering at what point do you decide when to exit the business and if there's a good workflow for that. I guess just kind of a general question around that, what you thought would be. Okay. Well, you exit a business not when it's hard because 100% of the time you run a business is hard. Okay. You exit a business when you lose hope that in a reasonable period of time, this is going to be profitable. And all of my effort is going to be worth the trouble.

Starting point is 00:01:50 We don't want to run a business for 10 years. It's not profitable. That's called a hobby and a bad one. Right? But you're a whole year in. When did you think you were going to be profitable? Well, I didn't, I predicted about three years before we started. I started being able to take any money out of the business, but I thought it would be self-sustaining about where we're at right now.

Starting point is 00:02:16 You thought it'd be breaking even? Yeah, I thought it would be, let me your phrase, I thought I could pay somebody to run it part-time by now. And I actually have somebody running it part-time. It's a slow bleed. It's not killing me unless I, well, with the second job, it doesn't know. To pay somebody to run it, yes. For the first eight months we were open, I have a, I work from home. I actually worked.

Starting point is 00:02:41 What do you do? What is the business? The business is, it's a gym, and then there's actually a second business, which is a supplement shop within that business. So there's two of them, technically. You opened a gym as a side hustle. I guess. Yes.

Starting point is 00:03:01 Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Are either one of those profitable, the gym itself or the supplements, business inside of the gym? It's inside of the gym, yes. The gym is profitable. Together, the gym is profitable, and then the supplements, I actually, that's where I run my payroll out of, and that has a slight loss every month. So they about break even with like maybe $100, $200 a month loss.

Starting point is 00:03:28 Okay. Okay. So you can handle $100 a month. What is your income on your regular job? Well, between the two of them, I take home about... No, you don't take anything home from the gym. No, from the jobs, I... You have two other jobs. You have two other jobs. You have two jobs in addition to the gym?

Starting point is 00:03:51 Yes. Okay, so what is your main career? I am a data analyst. Okay. What do you make as a data analyst? I gross 200 with both jobs. And they're both data analyst jobs? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:04:08 Yep. Okay. So is there one that is substantially more than the other or 100 each? They're about 100 each. One has significantly better benefits. The other one's a contract position, which is renewed every six months. So it's not guaranteed, I guess. It's not guaranteed employment.

Starting point is 00:04:26 Okay. And your wife is at home with the baby? Correct. Okay. So you're making $200,000 a year. You have a business that's losing $100 a month? Yes. I don't know.

Starting point is 00:04:38 What's the problem? The problem is it's not, it's actually, it's in a negative. I don't have the time, right now I don't have the time to put into the business because I have both jobs. Well, you had that when you started the business. Yeah, and we were doing, we were doing well. And then I got the second job to add somebody to run it. And then this person is running it part time. And it needs about 15 hours a week of my attention to, you know, it needs some overview.

Starting point is 00:05:08 The day to day is taking care of, but it needs a, you know, a growth trajectory. That didn't change, though. That's what you signed up for a year ago. Yep. Okay. So what you've added to your plate that is causing things to fall off of your plate is the contract job. It's not the gym. Yes, but I need the contract job because I need to get out of debt.

Starting point is 00:05:39 I have at least, I need to pay off at least $20,000 in debt, yes. Oh, you have debt? I have had, yes. The gym has about $80,000 in debt to start it up. Oh, Jesus. What a bad idea. Yeah, I learned that the hard way. Oh, man, I'm catching on now.

Starting point is 00:05:57 Okay. I just, I was looking at the income streams. I didn't think about that. I'm sorry. My bad. Um, okay. The business, how old are you? 29.

Starting point is 00:06:09 Okay. Can you cut the contract back to half the number of hours for 50,000? Uh, I can, I can ask. It's an hourly rate, so possibly. Okay. To where you can breathe. Actual logistics on just time, okay? Because you have a full-time job plus a part-time job then, plus another part-time job at the gym.

Starting point is 00:06:30 because we really just can't walk away from the $80,000 in debt one year in when it's doing exactly what was projected to do. The only thing that changed is you just kept adding crap because you wanted to get the $80,000 paid off and you can't get it all done in a day. Essentially. You stressed yourself out by adding stacks and stacks and stuff to your plate. And the baby made you realize that.

Starting point is 00:06:57 Yeah, that was a... Yeah, that was the straw. That was the straw that broke the camels back. And that's okay. That's a great straw. If you're going to have one, that's the one to have. But the, yeah. So, you know, what I'm going to do is I'm going to sit down and look at this.

Starting point is 00:07:14 I'm going to talk to my wife and I say, all right, for four more months, six more months, two more months, eight more months. I'm going to keep the exact schedule I'm keeping right now so I can keep 200 coming in. And I'm going to knock X out of that 80,000. and it's going to cost us because I am burning the candle at both ends and in the middle. But I can't do that forever. I can do it for this amount of time. And we're prayerfully going to, you know, you're going to give me a lot of grace

Starting point is 00:07:45 and you're not going to expect super dad to be there every time the kid poops its diaper. I've got to get this thing out of the ditch. Okay. And I started this business when Rachel was a baby. and it was 80 hours a week. And Sharon and I agreed to that. And she never whined one time after we agreed to that. But we also said there's a limited amount of time a human being can do this without exploding.

Starting point is 00:08:14 And so you need to decide what that is. You're sensing that the things are on fire because they're on fire. So the way to survive that is to go as close to the fire as you can get without getting burned. and go, okay, the most I can do is 90 more days. And then I'm going to pull back to part-time on the contract so that I can breathe again. But in the meantime, I'm going to pour the coals on and see how much this debt I can knock out. So I've got better options. You don't have really good options right now. Hey, let's play a quick game of Would You Rather?

Starting point is 00:09:03 Would you rather keep overpaying your phone company every month or save $600 a year with no contract and no price hikes ever? Easy answer. That's why I love Boost Mobile. With their low rates, you can unlock up to $600 in safety. over the so-called big carriers. You can bring your phone, keep your number, and pay just 25 bucks a month forever on the unlimited plan because you've got better things to do with your money. So go to boostmobile.com slash Ramsey to make the switch today. Based on average annual payment of AT&T, Verizon and T-Mobile customers compared to 12 months on the Boost Mobile Unlimited plan as of January 2026. See website for full details. Kate is in Billings, Montana. Hi, Kate. How are you? Hi, good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Talk to you today about my husband. He loves new trucks, and he has switched trucks about seven times in the last six years. And he changed vehicles twice last year. And so he usually just text me when he's making this change. And I've tried to talk to him about how it's a bigger deal than that, because we are usually losing money on this train. transaction. Oh, every time. Yes. So I just wanted your thoughts. How much did you guys make it, your Kate? So he's actually making quite a bit of money now, but this is new for us. So he

Starting point is 00:10:53 founded his own technology company doing logistics, and it grossed about a million dollars last year. What did it net? I think 1.4. It netted? You pay taxes? on a million dollars? Yes. Gross and net is different. You know that. Okay, sorry, I might be. Okay.

Starting point is 00:11:17 What did you bring home? What hit your account? Your household income. What did he bring home? Our household income was over 600. I know we owed a ton in taxes, so. Okay. So he can afford to lose the money.

Starting point is 00:11:34 That's, but he's disrespecting his wife. Yes. So we have three kids, and he's my second husband. And so this is just all, I think it's just all, we're still going through growing pains of how do we manage money together. That's seven years. You ought to be able to figure it out. You can grow a company that makes $1.2 million. You ought to be able to figure out how to manage money.

Starting point is 00:12:02 Yeah. He just hasn't bothered. He's kind of running around does whatever the flip he wants to do. because he's making money and he doesn't, you know, and in the process is disrespecting you. That's how I feel. Yeah. No, that's what is observable. It's not just a feeling.

Starting point is 00:12:23 Kate, what does he say when you text him or what's his response when you guys talk about it and you're frustrated? What does he say? Just like it. So it typically, it gets us into an argument because he kind of, I don't think he likes seen told what to do or, you know, how to spend his money, but he denies that he's, he's just respecting me or not, you know, consulting with me. But his idea of consulting with me is basically just telling you, texting me, telling me what he's going to do. Um, so that's kind of where we're in disagreement. Okay. He's going to fail as an entrepreneur. And the reason I know

Starting point is 00:13:03 that is I coach 10,000 businesses through entre leadership. And entrepreneurs who do not listen to their wives, don't make it long term. You cannot out-earn that level of stupidity. I tried it. It doesn't work. And it'll get you. Okay. So the arrogance that is attached to this means he's also not listening to his key leaders when they're speaking up and saying this is a dumb idea. He's not listening to anybody because he's freaking thinks he's Superman. And this is going to lead to him hitting the wall. So I'm scared. I'm really, really afraid for him. Because right now this isn't a big enough problem that it's actually causing him any discomfort. But the root of this is very, very dangerous from a business perspective.

Starting point is 00:13:51 Because leaders that don't have humility and take input from proper sources do not lead well. And it's pretty simple. And so, I mean, I've got key people on this team. Some of them been with me 30 years. And they're like brothers and sisters to me. and they speak into the Ramsey thing that happens here. And believe you me, to the extent that she wants to, Sharon Ramsey speaks into this place and what's going on. Do we do every single thing Sharon wants to do?

Starting point is 00:14:21 No, but we don't do every single thing Dave wants to do either. But you guys have a breakdown in your relationship and the power of the relationship. It's almost as if he has his life over to one side and then he comes home and has a family. Well, that's what feels always a little bit off. disjointed. Yeah, and even when he uses like, well, I've been making a lot of money, so I get to go over here, right? It's like this, it turns into this isolated instance where that's the opposite of marriage, right? When you're married to someone and you're doing life with someone, it should be integrated, right? You're still going to have your own thoughts and opinions. It's not that, but it's that we make big decisions together. We talk about this. We are united in these things. So all of this to say that your frustration with this, I think, and Rachel thinks is accurate. Now, what to do about it is an other thing. I'm afraid for him. Long term. Five years from today, this is not going to be pretty, is my prediction. And I coached, again, we coach 10,000 businesses here at Ramsey. We work with small businesses every day. And I see them come and I see them go and I watch what happens. So

Starting point is 00:15:24 what I would say is that I think you guys have a marriage problem that has a deep, deep root to it. And I would say that I love you guys and I want the two of you to get some healing in that. And so if you're my little sister, I'm going to say, hey, Kate, stir up some trouble and let's get into the marriage counselor's office because he thinks this is okay and you've let it go on and you're going to get what you tolerate. And any level of belittling what you're feeling and thinking to, right? They use the term gaslighting all the time. But genuinely, you start to feel crazy, Kate, right? And until your voice and your opinion is heard and actually honored, like that's going to start breaking down in other areas,

Starting point is 00:16:11 not just buying a new truck every year. Yeah. It's already breaking stuff down at the office that you don't even know is happening. Promise you. And it could even be worse than that. I hope it's not. But these are symptoms that don't lead of core problems that don't lead to good places. No, and it's a perfect example of how money's a magnifying glass that makes you more of what you are.

Starting point is 00:16:31 But this was always a little bit. of him, and then he goes and makes a million bucks, you know, and it just, it starts to magnify. And that's the danger that money can do. And when you win financially really quickly, like you guys have over, you know, one to two years, it's almost like you don't, he doesn't even have the emotional capacity to handle it. He's just still that little boy in him. That's just being magnified. He's going to go buy a new truck, you know, and so. I want a tonka truck. Yeah, that's, that's tough. I'm four. I want a new talk a truck, mommy. Don't tell me I can't have it. Yeah. That's the other thing, too, is I'm like,

Starting point is 00:17:02 Kate's a smart woman. And if you look at the numbers, to your point, they can afford that. Like, if he wanted to go do that. Honestly, he can afford to do it. It's just the process he's using the problem. That's what I'm saying is it's not even that she would say no to it either, but it's just the idea. I'm afraid he's scratching an itch that's not really there. So, you know.

Starting point is 00:17:19 Chasing the newness of something. I love cars. I'm a car guy and I like cool cars and fun cars and I buy cars. But I don't have an emotional need to flip a truck every year. I'm perfectly happy with the one I got, you know. And so there's something in that too. Yeah, I mean, you know, you just got to get there. There's something going on.

Starting point is 00:17:42 So you guys, you really need to sit down with someone that forces him to hear that it's not necessarily the transaction that's bothersome. It's the way the transaction is going down and that you're not being heard and you're not being respected and you're not. So you're not crazy. And I'm afraid that the stuff that's under this is, going to come to roost in a way you all aren't going to like in the long term. I'm pretty sure it will. Unless you don't, unless you fix it. Yeah, and unless he comes aware and you come, you know,

Starting point is 00:18:13 all of it and you guys start a new, a new process of life of the way you look, look at things and think about things and process things, all of it out of healing. So if you're out there and you're running a small business and your spouse has no idea what's going on at the business, it's a problem, y'all. That's what I'm telling you. You small business people, you can listen to me. You bootstrap stuff, you fight, you scratch your claw, you're in a battle every day. You got the battle axe out and the sword out and three guns out, and you're fighting and fighting and fighting and fighting and fighting and just to stay alive. And you finally start making some money. But in the middle of that, you become very, very lonely if you do not have people walking with you in leadership.

Starting point is 00:18:54 And who can find a virtuous wife for her worth is far above rubies, the heart of her husband safely, sir, and he will have no lack of gain. You want no lack of gain? I want no lack of gain. I like that formula. Then trust a virtuous wife. Hmm. In the multitude of counsel, there is safety. I bet you ten rich friends get around him. None of them will tell him to buy a truck every stinking year. I promise you. Finally, mortgage rates have dropped, and you know what that means? People who've been sitting on the sidelines are about to jump back in to the housing market. So if you've been waiting to buy, this could be your window, but you've got to be prepared and do it the Ramsey way.

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Starting point is 00:20:51 NMLSID 1591, NMLS ConsumerExist.org, Eagle Housing Lender. The Ramsey Show, watching this show happen as we tape it right in front of you, is going on tour next month. In April, we're going to be in Charlotte, Denver, Phoenix, and Anaheim. If you've never experienced the Ramsey show in person, then you've never seen it like this before. It's a perfect date night. One of you is a spender.

Starting point is 00:21:34 One of you's a saver. Come out. Rachel, John, George, Jade. Ken will settle your money debates right there in front of all the people in the audience. Tickets are almost sold out, but not quite. There's a few left and just a couple of VIP seats remaining. Don't wait. Go to Ramsey Solutions.com slash events or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube.

Starting point is 00:21:58 Michael's in Green Bay. Hey, Michael, what's up? Hey, Dave, it's nice talking to you. I listen to your show quite a bit, and I am about 20 years old with about 50 grand in debt. 30 of that being a car loan, three of it being from a square loan from the business that I shut down here recently. and some of it's medical, like just outstanding medical debt. Like, I mean, I was in motorcycle accident three years ago that I saw haven't paid. I owe a friend of a family friend about three grand.

Starting point is 00:22:39 I owe like a tire shop almost two grand. Like, I guess my question that I want to ask you today is like I don't know where to start with this because it feels like a lot. And I truthfully don't know where a lot of the debt is. Like I owe a dermatology group, sorry, like $800. And I owe like other medical companies money. And I just don't know exactly where all that debt is, where the creditors are, like every now and then I get calls. Yeah, Michael. So how has your life been so chaotic in the last two or three years that this has happened?

Starting point is 00:23:14 Because it sounds like you're just spiraling, man. Sounds like chaos. Yeah. I'd agree. Yeah. Truthfully, it is. And two years ago, I started my own business with my best friend. We found a building you go into, and truthfully, it just kind of took off like crazy. And then it didn't.

Starting point is 00:23:36 Correct. I had bought them out of the business, went solo. I got in some trouble, small trouble with my previous account. I even owe my previous account $800. And they did no work for me. They followed my taxes late for me. Um, so I'm finally out of the tax that, um, I had employee at the time. I guess, like, so you, at the end of the day, you really weren't making a lot of money. Because all the bills weren't paid unless you were spending it on cocaine or something. Where did the money go?

Starting point is 00:24:08 I'm going to, so honestly, I was really bad at saving and I wish I did it better. I'm not saving her. I mean, you got these little $800 bills that aren't paid. So you probably weren't actually making any profit, were you? honestly it sounds dumb but I was I was making well then where would you say the money went where would you say the money went food every day food 120 000 worth of food I wouldn't say it's all food but like a lot of just really short small spending that just leaked I decided to get a German Shepherd last year I just you're going to kill me for this I just traded in a 2023 Tesla Model 3 just last night for a truck because the Wisconsin winners, obviously, an electric vehicle is not going to do me justice.

Starting point is 00:24:57 Last night? Like literally like 12 hours ago? Yes. Oh, Michael. Like quite literally last night. Michael, Michael, you said you've been listening to the show. I have been. I know. I know. I also have a $7,000 person home. Michael, Michael, Michael, what are you doing right now for a job? What are you doing? I currently work for a automotive supplier. I make a base salary of 45 a year. After commission, give or take, it's about roughly 50. Okay.

Starting point is 00:25:30 And you just bought a $30,000 car? Yes. Okay. You need to call them back, honey, and tell them to cancel the transaction that you're not going through with it. As soon as you get off the phone. So my thing is, is I traded in my old car, Are you going to argue with me about something that's stupid?

Starting point is 00:25:51 You're really not going to argue with me about something that's stupid, are you? Please tell me that you want a better life than you have. You keep doing stupid stuff. You're going to have a stupid life, honey. That thing last night was absolute freaking brain damage. You understand that. Yeah. I mean, dude, really.

Starting point is 00:26:10 I love you, but good God, that was dumb. So can I say my point of view really quick on that? Not really. You can just call them back and cancel the transaction or you can have a good life. All right, Jordan is in Kansas City. Hey, Jordan, how are you? Hello, I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I was wondering if I should pay down my current student loan burden with single stocks that I hold. You could pay down your what?

Starting point is 00:26:40 Student loan debt. Oh, cool. How much student loan debt have you got? Just a little under $170,000. Whoa, are you a doctor or a lawyer? A veterinarian. Oh, good. What do you make? Currently, I make about $78,000.

Starting point is 00:26:57 Wow. You must have just got out. Yeah, I graduated a few years ago. Currently in internships, they kind of begs the next question. I'm actually gone into a program to help me specialize. but that program being a residency program pays less actually than what I make now. Yeah, you don't need to be in a residency program. You're broke.

Starting point is 00:27:19 You need to be making $130,000 as a veterinarian, not 70. Right, yeah. And to go in market for a – are you fully licensed DVM now? Yeah, fully licensed. Okay, you need to be making $130, not 70, and you don't need to go into a residency for specialization. You're broke. You went in debt to become a DVM.

Starting point is 00:27:38 Now go be one, dude. and go back and do your specialization in five years. Yeah, okay. So even with the upside of making over 200 post-residency. Yeah, five years from now, I think that's a great idea. But you'll make a lot more than 200 as a DVM that owns his own practice, too. So why don't you go be a DVM, clean up the debt, then open your own practice with some cash. And you'll make more than 200, and then you can decide if you actually want to specialize.

Starting point is 00:28:09 Mm-hmm. Okay. You do know this is true, right? I mean, we work with DVMs all over America. There are some of the people we coach. Right. I know what the numbers look like. I mean, the typical one makes between 130 and 150 as a salary working for someone else. And when you open your own practice and start running the actual business aspect of it,

Starting point is 00:28:29 you generally are going to go 200 to a quarter of a million. Mm-hmm. I'm assuming some mix between small animal and large animal here. I'm not assuming just race. horses or something like that. We're doing just a predominantly small and more of the resource industry. Because people spend money on their pets in America. George Camel will employ you for a full year.

Starting point is 00:28:50 George Camel will keep you, keep you, keep you, he'll pay off your debt single-handedly. Oh my gosh. But Jordan, yes, if you have single stocks, you can. Yes. Yes. I would cash those in. But then you will. Immediately and pay down your debt.

Starting point is 00:29:02 Yes. And I would be working on getting your income up immediately. And try to get this paid off in two to three years, right? if you're making that kind of money. So just live on nothing. So Jordan, look around the DVM world, okay? It is being corporate, it's being taken over by corporate America. And if you want to be an employee of corporate America, go get your specialization. If you want to be self-employed and control your own destiny and own your business and own your own your butt, and not somebody else owns your butt, then you can not specialize, use this

Starting point is 00:29:33 stock to get this knocked down, get your income up as an employee right now. and then goes with a four-year plan, five-year plan, opening your own thing. If you want to add specialization to that on the side, but I would not have it as my long-term goal to be an employee with specialization as a DVM. And you're going to end up working for corporate America, and they're going to piss on you. And so it's welcome to the medical field. And so,

Starting point is 00:30:00 we work with these guys all the time. This is the advice we give them. They can, you can own your, you can own a piece of your whole community. when you own a DVM practice. The people that are loyal to you, they're more loyal to you than anything else when it's their dog or their cat. They'll do anything for you.

Starting point is 00:30:19 You're like part of their family. And that's a whole lot different than being an employee of corporate America. Hey guys, George here. Listen, 99 times out of 100 when people say, I don't know where my money goes. It's not a math problem. It's a behavior problem. They're not budgeting. Then they're shocked when their bank account hits triple zeros.

Starting point is 00:31:11 Well, here's the deal. winning with money is about doing the boring stuff consistently. And that includes banking someplace that helps you stop guessing with your money. Like Fairwin's credit union. They're not going to fix your habits. That part's on you. But they do support people who are ready to take control of their money. At Fairwinds, you get a high-yield savings account with a great rate to help grow your emergency fund,

Starting point is 00:31:32 a checking account that won't nickel and dime you, and up to 10 free savings accounts so you can organize your money on purpose. Because when you stay disciplined, your money gets predictable, manageable and boring in the best way. So if you're ready for a bank that helps you be intentional, open your smart bundle today at fairwins.org slash Ramsey and get the Ramsey beweared debit card to go along with it. That's fairwins.org slash Ramsey, insured by the NCUA. Landon is with us in Memphis. Hi, Landon. How are you? Hey, Dave and Rachel. I appreciate you all taking my call. Sure. What's up?

Starting point is 00:32:23 So just the context behind this is, Dave, I had a call with you when I was 22 years old, and you told me that if I did exactly what she said, that I would be a millionaire by the time I was 32. And we were able to accomplish that by the time we were 28. So I just want to let you know that, you know, y'all mean the world to us. And my children's children will be grateful for y'all one day. So I really appreciate you. I'm proud of you, man.

Starting point is 00:32:46 Well done, Landon. You should call the guy from the last segment. Talk to him. So with that being said, this is probably going to sound so stupid, but I'm so nervous to make a dumb decision after what we've worked so hard for that I just had to get y'all's advice on it. So we're worth the right at about a million one, maybe a little bit less than that. And we have 15 acres of property that we want to build a house on. My house currently is paid for, and the issue is I just bought this house two years ago new.

Starting point is 00:33:18 And then, of course, we have a guy moving next door with his mom that just got out of prison after 20 years for child crimes. And it really freaking sucks that I can't let my kids in the backyard to play because he will watch them through the fence pickets. Not but once. Geez. Yeah, so it really, really sucks. And so with that, we just want to go ahead and build this house on this property. But the problem is it is basically two to three options. Number one, we can take out a construction loan to go ahead and start the deal.

Starting point is 00:33:51 Once it's done, sell our house and pay off the construction loan. But the problem with that is we feel like we're violating what we've been so committed to for this many years. But it's kind of heartbreaking to do it. That's number one. Number two is we can sell our house now and go rent something. But I really hate to make my wife move twice. I have two babies in the process, have to figure out the dog situation. Not when there's a creep living next door, though, Landon.

Starting point is 00:34:16 Don't you guys want out? I agree. I agree. I want to go rent to get away from the creepo. Because otherwise I'm going to end up in jail for murdering him. Okay. Yeah, I agree. I agree. So you would just go ahead, sell it, rent, move twice, deal with the dog situation, the whole deal storage units. The benefit of getting away from the creepo is it also frees up the money to do the build. I agree. I do agree. I would love nothing more than to not do a construction on this stupid thing.

Starting point is 00:34:45 Yeah, and you guys will be somewhere nine to 12 months, and it won't be super fun. But you would look at, I mean, that just goes so fast time-wise. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's just, it's going to be for a quick time. So, and here's the thing. Here's the thing. You're a millionaire. Way to go. You're 28 years old. Way to go.

Starting point is 00:35:07 What's your household income? Last year I made $250, but my income varies. I'm commission only. And you don't have a stinking debt in the world. Correct. And the house will sell for how much? I mean, I'm fully expecting to lose some money on it because I've got to pay an agent. and paid for the circle and how much?

Starting point is 00:35:27 Probably $470. I'll probably lose $20. Okay. And what is it going to take to do the bill? $500. Okay. And you've got the other money. I've got $200,000 in liquid cash right now.

Starting point is 00:35:38 I'm not counting retirement. So here's what's going to be uncomfortable for you, but you're going to do it anyway if you follow my advice. And you did last time. Okay. So. Yeah, I'll do it again. Rinse something for one year that's ridiculously nice. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:35:53 And that makes this adventure kind of fun. Sure. And it's so nice that you put up an extra deposit and they don't mind your dogs in the backyard and your kids are away from Crepezoid and your wife doesn't mind moving because she's moving up, go rent an $800,000 house. Yeah, yeah. Because it's not that much money out of the whole scope of your life. And it makes this movement.

Starting point is 00:36:25 it puts grease in the wheels to make this move happen properly. And so you can afford to do all of that. You make a good, you make, this is not a permanent decision. It's a temporary decision. And it's making a uncomfortable thing, a double move, fun. Yeah. So you would do that even though you're taking on a monthly payment that you haven't had for years now. Yes.

Starting point is 00:36:51 And you're taking away from the other things you're doing. Yes. because you don't have a monthly payment on a construction interest, construction loan interest. Sure, sure, sure. Okay, so there's no scenario in this where you're doing a construction loan after where we're at. Well, you could if you want to, but that would involve staying in the house. And I'm, you're, you weren't kidding.

Starting point is 00:37:13 The guys looking through the slats of the fence. I'm dead serious. I'm not kidding. I don't know how you didn't, I don't know how you didn't respond to that. I'm sure he did I spent $8,000 in cameras and equipment and then I'm gonna swear out a warrant

Starting point is 00:37:32 Well the point is You gotta get you gotta get away from this Yeah the point is you will have more peace From the financial aspect Because you already were just like Oh I don't I don't want to do the construction on Again you could But you didn't feel good about that

Starting point is 00:37:45 And your current situation you guys I mean if I was your wife and I had two little kids Yeah I mean like that's miserable Go rent I like when Dave likes to spend money. I like this because go rent like an amazing house. And so now you can live like no. Go live like on a farm or something that you wouldn't normally do.

Starting point is 00:38:02 You got a nice pool in a big backyard with cows. He's got 15 acres. Well, they're going to move to a farm. I'm going to move to a fun. I don't know. Just have fun for a year somewhere. I like that. Pretend like you're doing it.

Starting point is 00:38:12 We had a friend do that. And she moved into like a historic type home. And it was the coolest. But it was for a year. But it was beautiful. So fun. I like that idea. But you've got the money.

Starting point is 00:38:24 That's the difference. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. So let's not confuse this with somebody that's broke. No, no, no, no. He's calling me up and going, I bought a Tesla last night. I know. That's usually people like all this show. So it's fun when people who are winning, you might go spend.

Starting point is 00:38:37 And yes, enjoy your life. It's good. And you're not having to violate the go back in debt thing. And most importantly, though, I'm getting away from creepozoid because I'm serious. I can't visualize going to work. and leaving my wife and two little kids at home. Once this guy's got his eyeball, no way.

Starting point is 00:38:57 I'm really afraid I would lose my mind and end up in jail. We know. You've said that twice on this call. I know. I know. I know. But it's just, this is, these people, man. Okay.

Starting point is 00:39:08 Yeah. I mess with little kids. I mean, you know, this is not, this is not a good thing. So yeah, Landon, I think this is why you have worked so hard. The payoff for all of your sacrifice. is you've got choices. And I'm suggesting you make this an easiest possible process with those choices because it is a temporary thing where it's not a five-year plan.

Starting point is 00:39:32 It's a 12-month plan. Yeah, that's right. And quickly get your plans drawn, select your builder, lay out a budget, a schedule, and a blueprint and manage to those three things and get that house out of the ground and get it done as quick as you possible can. Just don't let a budget creep out of what you guys have worked on. Stay on schedule and stay on bluepresent. And don't, not 19 change orders and stay on budget, stay on blueprint, stay on schedule.

Starting point is 00:39:56 And you can get a house out of the ground. You won't, and you'll be your builder's favorite customer ever because most people can't stay on budget, stay on schedule, and stay on blueprint. So if you'll do that, you can get the house out of the ground 12 months. You'll be fine. You'll be on the farm. Dun-da-dun-ton-ton. And life is good.

Starting point is 00:40:12 You've got some distance between you and the neighbors, which is always a good thing. Wow. The world we live in. Well, and I just love what he said, though, calling it 23 and said, or he was 22. 22. I told him by 32, he'd be a million. Yeah, if you did these things. Yes, yes.

Starting point is 00:40:28 So it does. Proud of it. Proves out. Well done, Landon. You do. You follow this stuff. It works. I mean, I didn't invent any of it.

Starting point is 00:40:36 I stole it all from God and your grandmother. Common sense is so rare in America, though, that it's like having a superpower. And so, yeah. So we have a wildly popular show that 30 million people tune into every week. Who knew? But that's it. That's why because this stuff works. And you are the hero, Landon, you did this.

Starting point is 00:40:55 I appreciate you, you know, giving us credit. But you're the guy that did all the hard work for the last decade or six years in your case. And it didn't take you a whole decade. Wow, from 22 to 2080 because of a millionaire. And I just love Gen Z. Gen Z has got so much potential. There's so many things they can do. There's so many things at their fingertips, and they're so smart on how they use them when they're smart.

Starting point is 00:41:22 But there's no middle ground. The dumbest person on the planet is a dumb Gen Z. Okay. The smartest person on the planet is a smart Gen Z. Oh, my God, they're wonderful, and they're simultaneously aggravating. If you're looking for a more budget-friendly way to save on medical costs and stay true to your values, Christian Healthcare Ministries is a great option to think about. CHM is not health insurance. It's a health cost-sharing ministry, a biblical community-based way for Christians to share each other's medical bills.

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Starting point is 00:43:05 Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality, number one bestselling author and my daughter is my co-host today. Another Rachel is on the line. This one's in Indianapolis. Hi, Rachel. How are you? I'm great. How are you guys?

Starting point is 00:43:37 Better than I deserve. What's up? So it's awesome to speak with you. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. The reason why I'm calling is my husband and I are in the step two. We've made really good progress and paid off $78,942 worth of bets. Wow.

Starting point is 00:43:56 Over 2024. Thanks. That's consisted of medical, car, and student loan. My question is, is there ever a time in Baby Step 2 that it would be appropriate to cash flow, like a life event or a once in a lifetime experience? What would that be? So it would be to go see several good childhood friends of mine in Las Vegas named Kevin, Nick, Howie, AJ, and Brian at the sphere in August. The back tree boys. Yes.

Starting point is 00:44:32 Their childhood boys. Shoot. I'm so glad you called on this day, Rachel. There's any help. You know Rachel's been twice. I think so, yes. Yeah. And it's so good.

Starting point is 00:44:47 Oh, my gosh. And here's the thing. I'm like watching the videos, and my husband yells from the other room. Dave says no. Oh. I'm just going to see if Rachel's a hypocrite. That's all I'm going to see. Because if your husband calls and wants to buy a Mastercraft, I've got the same problem.

Starting point is 00:45:06 Okay, Mastercraft and Backstreet Boys tickets are very different price point-wise. All right? Let's just continue being curious. Rachel, how much debt do you all have left? So we have, I have it right here, we have just about $96,000 and I will admit that's student loans. I'm in healthcare and my husband is a teacher. And your household income is what? I have an NDA with work, but we are able to put about $3,500 a month towards debt because I have a side hustle as adjunct faculty.

Starting point is 00:45:40 Oh, nice. Okay. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, your household income, oh, you can't say because you have an NDA? Is that what you mean? Yeah, I have a non-disclosure agreement. I work with the government, so. Oh. Okay.

Starting point is 00:45:53 Nobody knows who you are, but okay. Anyway. Protect yourself. It's fine. They probably actually do know who you are. But anyway. Oh, man. So we're able to put like $3,500 a month towards debt, and we're at probably about 25 months away from having that all cleared.

Starting point is 00:46:14 Yeah. I went to the Eagles at the sphere, which. would be my version of Backstreet Boys because the chance of me seeing the Backstreet Boys is close to zero. But the Eagles at the Sphere was one of the best concert experiences in my life. So I can get there with you and Rachel

Starting point is 00:46:31 on how difficult this is. We're kind of making fun of it a little bit, but it's also a very real, it's a real cool experience. And it's worth every penny if you had the pennies. You don't, you're broke, you're $90,000 in debt.

Starting point is 00:46:49 Yes. So I'm going to mute my mic. I just can't. I can't. She can't tell you no. She's going to make me do it. I'm kidding. She can't do it. Ah, it would be inconsistent with what we teach. I know, I know. That's the bottom line. As much as we understand and grasp, and we also know you're not going to go bankrupt if you do it, and you're probably going to be okay if you do it,

Starting point is 00:47:11 but it's inconsistent with what we teach because that loss of focus and that loss of, I give myself permission to take a minute off instead of staying on this. The way you got the $78,000 paid off in that short period of time was focused intensity. without any distractions. You put the blinders on and said nothing is important as important as getting this debt clean. And that level of focus created behavior change in your household, created sacrifice in your household, and got you the progress. And that's how we've taught and been able to coach people to be successful all these years in this to not get distracted with every shiny thing. And this one's particularly funny and fun because Rachel has actually done it twice.

Starting point is 00:47:56 It heals your inner child until it is like the best. Oh, Jesus is not up there. It's the backstreet boys. For all of us millennials, it takes you back to like seventh grade. Well, so does the Eagles, but my inner child didn't need it. But my inner child died a long time ago. He's in there, Dave. He grew up.

Starting point is 00:48:17 No, he's in there. He's in there. This is so fun, Rachel. I'm sorry. I have to tell you the truth. and the truth is everything we teach says don't do it. Absolutely. Well, no, I really do appreciate it.

Starting point is 00:48:32 And we listen to, like, the podcast and stuff when I'm, like, on my way to teach on the weekend. So thank you. You're fun. You're a great sport. You're working so hard. And you're doing a great job. And here's the thing. If you live like no one else, I promise you later, there's going to be better things than this would have been.

Starting point is 00:48:49 And I have on my prayer lists that Brittany Spears heals up as a human and she goes on to her. and that in sync that Justin Timberlake goes in sync. Just for your generation. So we will get millennial concerts in the future, Rachel. I really do believe it. I'm praying for it. Well, when they want money, they will because all the ones from my generation are 85 years old, and they're all on stage jumping around still.

Starting point is 00:49:08 So, because there's really good money in it right now. There is. Well, and they keep releasing more dates. Yeah, like, I mean, Donnelly just keeps going like the ever-ready bunny. So, but anyway. I don't know who he is. Eagles? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:49:20 Yeah. It's understandable. It's like the Eagles and the beach boys. for a fun thing because you actually, you know, you almost got Rachel on your side. But, yeah, we also have to step aside from all the giggling and the fun about it and say, while it is an incredible experience, I would not suggest it to someone in your situation. If you do it, we'll still be friends. But I would not suggest it.

Starting point is 00:49:41 That's a good point, Rachel. We would still be friends if you did it. There you go. That's a nice way of saying it. I just, you know, won't be mad at you. Just like we say, that's not a sin. It's not a salvation issue. It's just not wise.

Starting point is 00:49:54 This is not a biblical. It's not a biblical contract. So stay focused, Rachel. Stay focused. The power focus is. It is hard to grasp in a culture that does not know how to focus in a culture where people check their phones 2,500 times a day. And it's hard with, and this is a lot of people's journeys. But, you know, they paid off 78.

Starting point is 00:50:14 Yeah, they made good progress. In two, you know, a year and a half. And then they still have 96. Like, that's a long, that's a long journey. So you guys, you're in the marathon. You've got it, Rachel. And I kind of think in talking to her that she was pretty mature about consideration. I think she knows.

Starting point is 00:50:30 I know. Yeah, she was kind of having fun with it. It wasn't like a little spoiled brat. No, no, no, no, no. She's smart. She knows what she's doing. She's like a grown woman and stuff. Oh, man.

Starting point is 00:50:40 I just hate that you kind of lost the argument to the husband, too, when he yells. From the other room. Dave says you can't do it. Dave doesn't make the decisions at your house. He just gives you the guidance and then you make the decisions at your house. But, yeah. Oh, Rachel. So sorry. So sorry. Yeah, I was on when we started a thousand years ago. I was on CBS early show every other Tuesday. And they got this couple for me to coach.

Starting point is 00:51:07 Oh, no. And on the show, they revealed to me without telling me ahead of time that they had just come back from vacation. After I've been coaching them for four months to get out of debt. Oh, geez. I made the woman cry on the air when I finished with it. She was crying. You're like, I can't believe. They went to break with this woman cry. You're like, I cannot believe you. I just completely ripped her to shirts. I believe you did. I believe that. Listen, identity theft doesn't just happen just because you're careless. You can do everything right and still become a victim, whether your information is skimmed online, stolen through a scam, or exposed in a data breach, which happens every day.

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Starting point is 00:53:33 They'll advise you on the best moves to make for your situation, your small business. I don't know if you've had some big life changes in the past year. You bought a house, got married, had kids, got a divorce, whatever. Ramsey Solutions.com slash tax pro. We'll hook you up with one of the CPAs or enrolled agents that are Ramsey trusted. Ramsey Solutions.com slash tax pro to find tax people that are Ramsey trusted to help you. Jennifer's in Boston. Hi, Jennifer.

Starting point is 00:54:00 How are you? Hey, I'm good. This is so nerve-wracking. I don't know how you guys do this every day. We've gotten used to it. How can we help? Okay. Okay, so me and my husband, we had $146,000 of student debt.

Starting point is 00:54:18 We've gotten it down to $65,000. So we've been kind of crushing it. But we do have, like, an inheritance from my father's estate. We kind of went down a rabbit hole, and we found out that each kid is probably going to get around $70,000 to $90,000. The house sold a few years ago, but my uncle is the executor, and he's just a judge. just gone completely ghost. Like nothing. And like a year and a half. I'm sorry, what do you mean ghost? He's not returning calls or you can't find him or what? Nothing. No, like text, emails, calls. Did you go to his house? Zero. Well, we live in like different states. He's all over across the country.

Starting point is 00:55:05 Well, for 70,000, I'm going to go to his house. Yeah, I was talking to my husband about that. I'm like, Is this like something we get, like, I don't know, the authorities involved? Because it kind of like kills me that our debt could be gone tomorrow if I had, like, the estate, like money. So you've called his phone how many times? Oh, gosh. I'm not like a ton of ton because I'm like, oh, okay, he has a life, like he has kids. But I'm starting to just get a little, a little peeved. Wait, wait, wait.

Starting point is 00:55:40 So how many times have you called him? Like three times? over how long? I mean, since we've been getting serious about the debt, probably a year, because my husband, I was in PA school, and then I was in college, we weren't really thinking about the estate at all. And now we're paying down the debt. How long ago did your father die? On the table in 2015. Okay, do you have a relationship of any kind with your uncle prior to this good or bad?

Starting point is 00:56:09 I just, after my dad passed, the that side of the family just, we kind of just dissipated. So if you never spoke to him again, but you got your 70,000, your life wouldn't change much. Right. So jack him up. Yeah, like call him a ton. Yeah. And go, hey, I want my stinking money. 2015?

Starting point is 00:56:32 That's 11 years to settle an estate. I'm getting ready to call the cops if I don't get a check. I'm calling the cops if you stole my money. money. You think he stole it? He might have stolen. It's been 11 years. Oh, no. Well, here's some tea. I just have a little bit of a feeling that he's holding it because he thinks we're like too young to manage it. I've got a little bit of a feeling that I'm about to jack him up. Yeah, yeah. See, I need to have that. Eleven years? When did the house sell, though? Why am I more pissed than you? I know. Yeah, and I think that's the problem. I think I need a little kick in the

Starting point is 00:57:10 But so I'm like, I'm just going to call and just sit here. When did the house? Yeah, when did the house sell, Jennifer? How long ago? A few years ago. Okay. This stuff should be wrapped up in six months. Okay.

Starting point is 00:57:23 So he's 10 and a half years too late. Yes, call him and call him twice a day. Okay. We're really wanting to move in August. And I'm like, we're not moving unless we're out of debt. Yeah. So I'm like. That's irrelevant to this discussion.

Starting point is 00:57:35 Okay. Whether you move or not, it depends on if you're out of debt. And that depends on if you get out of debt. With your money or you get some of this money this due you, you may never see this money, but you need closure on this ridiculous estate situation. It's ridiculous. How many siblings do you have? And three.

Starting point is 00:57:54 And what are they saying? Well, a little bit of strange at the moment, not going to lie. Okay. Having a little bit of a family thing. Okay. All right. So I'm going to let Uncle know that he's got 10 days to send me to close out the estate. and send me my money.

Starting point is 00:58:12 And if he doesn't do that, I'm going to hire an attorney, and I'm getting ready to jack his world up. I'm going to reach down his throat and pull him inside out. Oh, my Lord. Dad. No, really. 11 freaking years. She's only called him three times in a year. So maybe we try the calling thing.

Starting point is 00:58:27 Yeah, call him and say, I want my money. And then if he says, okay, I want my money. Then I'm going to call again, if you want my money. And then I'm going to call again, and I'm going to go, hey, it's been 20 minutes. Where's my money? This is 11 years. Definitely, yes, Rachel's correct that I haven't put my foot, like, on the gas at all. No.

Starting point is 00:58:45 We're, like, going crazy with the debt. I'm like, okay. They're taking you from like. Taking you from zero to 100, but you need to go there. You need to go middle. Yeah. Well, you need to be prepared to go to 100 in the next 30 days. 30 seconds.

Starting point is 00:58:59 I'll do it as soon as they get off. You have to call him immediately. You can start nice. And then progressively over the next 30 days, you go from nice to I don't care if you ever talk to me again, but I still want my. money. Correct. This has gone on too long. It's gone on too long. And I think he spent the money. I think you're screwed. That's what you're going to find out. That's what I'm almost thinking. Not legal? It's not even there. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:59:24 It's not legal at all. No, I said isn't that illegal? Sure. Yeah. So what happens then? He's a fiduciate. It's a civil matter. It's not a theft. Okay. Because there's never in her name. He's the executor of the estate. He did not function in his duties right. His fiduciary, his fiduciary. His fiduciary duties so you could sue him, but suing broke people with no morals is usually a waste of time. So you're probably screwed because you sat on this for so long. But I'm going to go ahead and get psychological, emotional closure on this and then decide what I'm going to do with the guy that stole my money. Now I'm just going to forgive and walk away and forget it because I didn't follow up or am I going to lean on it or has he got some assets and I'm going to tap him? I don't know.

Starting point is 01:00:07 I mean, you've got to decide what you're going to do then, but I think you're going to find there's no money. That's what I think. And you bear part of the responsibility for that by letting this go on this long, by not managing the situation well. It's unhealthy for an estate to be open 11 years. It's not normal. He didn't do his job as the executor of the estate. And if he's sitting on the money, I'll give you a 10% chance that's what it is. 90% that he spent that money.

Starting point is 01:00:36 and he's got some whacked out weird family justification bull crap in his mind for doing that, but he still stole your money. I'll bet you. We'll see. We'll see. You can call us back and tell us later. Good luck. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:00:51 So, gang, when you are due, when you are the heir to an estate, you are not in charge of the estate. The executor executes, thus the word execute is in the word executor. executes the actual terms of the will. If the will states house to be sold proceeds to be distributed to children, that has to happen in a reasonable period of time. 11 years is 10 years past reasonable. That's simple. Okay, that's an actual practical thing.

Starting point is 01:01:28 And so as an heir, I at the one year mark, and periodically after six months, I'm going to be getting reports from the executive. as to what the progress is and when I expect to see the payout that my dad left in his will for me. And you're going to give me those reports as the executor, or I'm going to drag your butt before the judge, and he's going to make you give a report. Because that is your fiduciary responsibility, your job, your trust job as the executor. You do not get to decide, oh, well, they're done with money, so I'm going to hold the money. That's not what the will said. The will said, sell the house and distribute the money to the dumb people. That's what it said.

Starting point is 01:02:11 And you have to do what the will said, even if it's uncomfortable, even if you don't agree with it. That's what you take on when you take on the job of executor. And if you've ever been the executive of an estate, you will promise to never do it again. Because it's a royal pain in the butt. And most of the time, unless it's a huge estate, you don't get paid for this privilege. You've worked too hard to get control of your money just to let strangers control your data. Think about it. Just about every time you sign up for a newsletter, grab a coupon code, or start a free trial, your personal info, like your name, email address, phone number, and more get scooped up and sold by data brokers.

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Starting point is 01:04:15 In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Philip and Anita are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Hi. Hey, Dave, hey, Rachel. Welcome. Where do you guys live? We're in Atlanta, Georgia. Oh, fun.

Starting point is 01:04:46 Well, welcome to Nashville. Congratulations. And how much debt have you paid off? We paid off $88,100, and we cash flowed another $30,000 of Murphy expenses in the first 18 months of that. Oh, gosh. Wow. How long did it take you to do the 88? Two years and 10 months.

Starting point is 01:05:05 Two years and 10 months. Way to go. And your range of income during that time? We started at 135,000. We finished at 145,000 with the highest year with side hustles at 191. Wow. Way to go, guys. What kind of debt was the 88,000?

Starting point is 01:05:22 It was personal loans, credit cards. We had some IRS tax in there as well and a H-PAC system. Wow. Very normal. Wow. Normal humans. Very cool. So what do y'all do for a living?

Starting point is 01:05:36 I'm a general manager for Big Box retail. And then side hustle was DoorDash. Okay. Nice. And you work outside the home, Anita? Well, I'm a physical therapist. But when we moved to the USA, COVID started. So I stayed at home with my three children to help school them.

Starting point is 01:05:55 That went on for a few years. And then we actually moved down to Atlanta in. Georgia and that was when I turned my hobbies, which is photography and dogs into work, where I began my photography business and my dog boarding business. Very good. Good for you. Good for you. So Australian? We're from the UK. The UK. I'm going to say English. Okay. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I can't catch the accents. I'm sorry. I just knew there was one. Okay. What part of the UK? Where were you? Devin. I'm from Devon and you can say. I'm from Devin. Evan.

Starting point is 01:06:30 Fair enough. Yeah. Close enough. Yeah. Close enough. Yeah. So down on the coast. Gotcha.

Starting point is 01:06:36 Wonderful. Cool. Oh my gosh. Well, congratulations you guys. So how did you run into this Ramsey stuff two years and ten months ago? Well, I listened to the Total Money makeover audio book in 2015, but I, of course, knew better. So I didn't do anything about it. Didn't tell the need to anything about it.

Starting point is 01:06:54 And then fast forward to October in 22. I was doing some yard work, lifting some trees. and my body had another idea, so I had to have some surgery. I was out of action for five weeks, and it nearly broke us financially. So after a week of Netflix and getting bored, started listening to your book again.

Starting point is 01:07:16 This time I really heard you shouting and yelling at me. And after eight times, I was ready to kind of open up to Anita about what was happening financially. Wow. Oh, wow. So, Anita, you didn't really have the full picture in general? No, we really didn't

Starting point is 01:07:31 communicate very well with finances and we communicated well otherwise but I completely relied on him to manage the finances and I didn't really know what was going on and he was under a huge amount of stress and it was impacting our marriage but I didn't know what was causing

Starting point is 01:07:51 the problem why he was so stressed but then he did open up to me once he started, you know, reading your books again and shared what his plans were. And I, you know, I was surprised to find out how much debt we were in. I had no idea. But I was, I took it all very level-headed surprisingly. I didn't get upset and I just got totally on board with helping him. In fact, it really did help us communicate. And it did, I feel like it saved our marriage actually. So thank you. I mean, it has been an incredible journey, just the whole experience and following your plan,

Starting point is 01:08:33 communicating better as a family and working together. So I'm really proud of him for getting on board and you guys for helping us do that. Yeah. Wow. Well, way to go. I'm proud of you guys. Well, done. Very well done.

Starting point is 01:08:49 So you had this event that puts you flat on your back and you're kind of forced to consume some things. and you say, okay, I'm going to do it this time. This time I'm tired of living like this. I'm going to talk to Anita about it. We're going to work together. We're going to tear into this. What was the first big thing you did when you got an attack mode? I went out and started door dashing.

Starting point is 01:09:10 You sold everything. Oh, yeah. We sold everything. That was number one. Yeah, the kids really did think that they were next. Yeah, yeah. And then it was door dashing. About six months in, I actually lost my job, so got laid off.

Starting point is 01:09:24 Oh. Yeah, but it was okay. Anita from the car park after the meeting. I literally went out door dashing and I was actually earning we were earning one thousand five hundred dollars a week door dashing. So that's what we did for a couple of months until I got the next position that I'm in now. Wow, never stopped. Just kept rolling. Yeah, we just went straight out. We're doing 80 hours a week. Yeah. And Edith was doing 80 hours a week. Yeah. So then I started with my photography business, I'm doing family photography, which actually didn't make most of the money. The money came

Starting point is 01:09:57 from dog boarding. We do have dogs and we love animals. So that just seemed to come naturally to me. I think you can make more being a daycare for dogs than for kids. Right. Well, these dogs stayed with us. They slept in our home. They were family-friendly dogs from local people. Yeah. And yeah, it really did take off huge. And I think, you know, the people that let their dogs stay with us really saw how much we loved dogs. The kids loved it. At times we had, you know, in the teens, like 13 more. dogs. Oh my goodness. Christmas time was hysterical.

Starting point is 01:10:31 Yeah. The kids joined in as well. The eldest actually lost his room. So the boys had to cozy up and we got a tenant for a couple of years as well. So we really went all in. Wow. Yeah, we went for it. Oh my gosh.

Starting point is 01:10:44 So now that you're free, was all that worth it? Oh, my goodness, yes. I mean, if you're thinking about getting on board with the Ramsey, I would highly recommend it. I mean, it's changed our life completely. and you won't imagine what you're capable of, how hard you can push yourself, knowing that the harder you push, the faster you can achieve your goals.

Starting point is 01:11:08 Amen. That's it right there. I feel like our children have just learned so much from this experience. That's what I was going to ask is some people are cautious when they have kids in the home to sacrifice lifestyle to get out of debt and do this, because they're like, oh, I don't want my kids to feel like that, you know, that our life is changing for the worst.

Starting point is 01:11:25 They see it as the worst, but what you just framed up is actually it's the best thing for them to see. It's taught them resilience and to not, you know, to be grateful for everything that they have. It's just been to see them to grow as little humans has just been a blessing to see how strong they've become because of this. And, you know, to go into the shops, they don't want everything they see. They know that, you know, we have to compromise that, you know, they've done a great job. Yeah. And our eldest, he's 14, he's being inspired by it as well. So he's watched FPU.

Starting point is 01:12:00 He's done that with us, as a course. And he's now got his own business that he started last year. And he's doing really well with that, doing what you were doing, Dave, which is lawns and Jet Ocean Driveways. So he's really jumping on board. Yeah. Wow, good. Well, yeah, a front row seat to watching Mom and Dad change their lives. You guys are heroes.

Starting point is 01:12:17 So you've changed your whole family tree with your actions as well as with the arithmetic. So absolutely amazing. I'm so proud of you. Thank you. Incredible. What a great, what a great inspiring couple. Amazing.

Starting point is 01:12:29 Very, very cool. All right, let's bring the kiddos up and introduce them. Their names and ages. Come on up, guys. What are their names and ages? So this is Bethany. Bethany is eight years old. So beautiful.

Starting point is 01:12:44 Isaac is 10 years old. And Ewan is 14 years old. All right. Very cool. All right, it's Philip and Anita. UIN or E, say it again. UIN, Yuen, Y, Y, Y, Y, and Y, Y,in, Isaac, and Bethany from Atlanta, Georgia,

Starting point is 01:13:00 88,000 paid off in two years and 10 months, making 135 to 1.45 and selling everything in sight. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one, we're debt-free. Man, they are inspiring. That is so fun. I mean, just scorched earth for two years. Man, they did it.

Starting point is 01:13:32 Did it. And, you know, her, it's so beautifully said that, you know, the more you turn it up, the more you turn up the heat, the faster you get out. You're going, yep. Ramsey's show, question of the day is brought to you by Y-ReFi. Defaulted private student loans don't fix themselves, but you can fix them. Y-Refi helps you refinance into a low fixed rate payment that fits your budget so you can get back on the baby steps and move forward.

Starting point is 01:14:44 Go to Y-refi.com slash Ramsey. that's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Nicole in Arkansas. She said, I'm working two jobs to pay off debt, but it feels like my progress is slowing with the rising gas prices because of the war, increasing grocery costs and higher interest rates. How can I maintain momentum and paying off my debt with all of this going on? Well, it's setting the lifestyle standard. I mean, there's some things that you can control, some things that you can't.

Starting point is 01:15:19 And so to have gas in your car, you're going to have to have, which means if it is a little bit more expensive, then you've got to change the price point of your budget to say it's there. So what do I have to make up for in other places that I can sacrifice and or make more money? But it shouldn't be that significant of a... Yeah, you're just wrong, Nicole. You're worrying about stuff that is not in existence. You've been watching the news. okay there's no higher interest rates while you've been getting out of debt

Starting point is 01:15:50 nothing no debt that you have the interest rate is not going up a penny on any of yeah grocery store costs have been consistent i mean the gas your gas might be costing you $10 more a month this month the Iraqi bombing has been going on for three weeks Iran Iranian bombing okay three weeks and gas has gone up 40 cents a gallon it's $10 So you don't have a problem at $10.

Starting point is 01:16:19 And you don't have higher interest rates. And your grocery costs have not gone up in the last three weeks. So none of that is true. So you're creating a narrative, a drama in your head because you're tired because you've been working all the time. It feels like my progress is slowing. No, it's not. Unless you did something else to cause it to slow. slow. Slowing because of the war. No. Your progress is not slowing because of the war. Increasing grocery

Starting point is 01:16:51 costs. No, not substantially. Not in the past five weeks. No big difference. And no interest rates on your debt have not gone up a penny. Not a penny. So I don't know where, that's all stuff that somebody told you that you work with that's in Debbie Downer or you're watching the news, which is the same thing as Debbie Downer. So how you maintain momentum is you ignore Debbie Downer and you kick the butt of the debt by working like a crazy person and selling everything in sight and eating beans and rice, rice and beans. The cost of beans and rice is not gone up. And so, but, but what is what does happen, Nicole, honestly, that is valid, and I will defend you on this after taking you a task on the other is you do get tired. It gets old. Yeah, and if it's been a two-year journey for her, she is feeling, you don't know what I mean. Working your butt off gets old.

Starting point is 01:17:51 It gets old. It's hard. Getting out of debt is hard. It's just not as hard as spending your entire life being average, being mediocre, constantly living from paycheck to paycheck for your whole freaking life having to work an extra job because you never get out of debt because you never pay a price to push it over the, push the rock over the hill. but I but I will sympathize with you empathize with you that you do get tired and it is it does get

Starting point is 01:18:21 I get sick and tired of this and all I would encourage you to do is just take that and turn it into a righteous anger to push the paddle even harder to the floor to get out that much faster like the debt free screamer just said like Anita just said on that dead free scream and use it as anger and also as anger to never go back

Starting point is 01:18:40 and I'm not going to ever be the person I used to be, I'm going to be transformed while I get out of debt as well. Because actually what ends up happening to these people, you guys listening that have never done it, these people that go through these extreme journeys to get out of debt, they are changed more than their finances are changed. And they can never become the same person again because they're not the same person they used to be. Yeah, because of the strength of doing something that you think is impossible, right,

Starting point is 01:19:09 where they have 13 dogs living with them at Christmas and they're, They're working extra. They're doing, they're door dashing a thousand bucks a week. They're making $4,000 a week door dashing is what they said in that every call. I mean, like, that feels impossible for people. I mean, it's just like there's no way I could do that. And when you do something, you don't think you can do. The resilience on the back end comes out.

Starting point is 01:19:29 And then you get to apply that to every area of your life. Like it just, there's a level of strength there when you do what feels like the impossible. Yeah. Once you've stretched to a certain point, you can never return to the same shape. it's not possible. And so, yeah, that's how this goes. Wow. Wow.

Starting point is 01:19:47 So we'll be praying for your strength, kiddo. But do not get distracted by mythology from your Debbie Downer friends or mythology from the news because your gas tank is not that much more expensive in the last three weeks. And if it is, it won't be for long. And your interest rates have not changed a thing unless you went and borrowed money, in the last three weeks. You might have found a higher interest rate that way. But the interest rates on everything you had have not changed.

Starting point is 01:20:17 Your credit card rates are not moved a penny, not moved up or down. They never move up or down. They always are screwing you. You know, your car is a fixed rate. If you have a car debt, your medical bills are a fixed rate. They're not charging you an interest rate. They're just trying to get their money. You know, whatever it is, the interest rates are all the same.

Starting point is 01:20:37 Nothing has changed. in the you know because nothing in your life has changed that's my point now there may be some things in the marketplace have moved a little bit here or there but guys you really can't sit and watch the news and be anything but negative they exist for fear porn their whole job is to keep you upset so you keep watching and you stay in the the fox news or the CNN news loop and you know your particular side of the aisle is stimulated by anger at the other side of the aisle. And, you know, that's all they do all day long. And we're on Fox all the time. We know those guys. We're not mad at them. Most of those guys are friends of ours. But what they do

Starting point is 01:21:19 all day long, the people that write those scripts that they read in those teleprompters, you know, it's got to, you do not have higher interest rates. You just don't. It's that simple. Jane is in Fort Myers, Florida. Hi, Jane. How are you? Oh, I'm fine, Dave. Thank you very much for taking my call. My question concerns cars, cars on a mortgage. My husband's 79. I'm 69. We currently have a, we've done it all. We've gotten grandma's car, grandpa's car.

Starting point is 01:21:51 You know, we bought new cars. We've been married 48 years. We've bought new cars. We've seen them to the end. You know, anytime we bought a new car, had them, of course, had a payment. And once it was done, then we saw it to the end. So currently we got grandma's 2003,

Starting point is 01:22:07 beautiful favor. And then we have a 2006 explorer that my husband drives. And then we're snowbirds. So here in Florida, we have a Siam. And because we're snowbirds, I

Starting point is 01:22:23 tend to go north more often than he does. I'm getting nervous. Okay? It's like, we got these old cars. You know, and he's pretty good. He's good. He knew stuff. He says, that car will be fine. Before I run out of time, ask your question, Jane. Okay, is it ever a good idea?

Starting point is 01:22:39 I went and got a lease. No, you didn't. Yes, listen, I kind of got strong arms, but it's a very nice car. I'm sure it is. I mean, I could be easily impressed because I got old cars. So, anyway, what do you want me to do about it? You got a lease. Tell me.

Starting point is 01:22:58 It's a bad idea. My plan is to give up the lease in September. Good. Good. Turn it in. Good. Okay. Because we gave our son money for some land, we still have a mortgage.

Starting point is 01:23:15 So I'm thinking, okay, do the, well, put that money toward, drive the old cars, put the money toward the mortgage. And then in, I turned 70 this year, so I'll get. I don't mind you getting a nicer car. It sounds like you've got the money. Just pay cash for it. That's simple. Yeah. And if the two old cars are fine.

Starting point is 01:23:37 than what you're saying, putting it toward the mortgage. You're 70 years old. You're driving across the country. You need a better car than an 06. Yeah, I'm fine with that. But pay cash for it. And quit trying to trick the system. Sounds like you've been tricking it for a long time and it hasn't worked.

Starting point is 01:23:51 Just write a check. Buy yourself a car. And be careful what car you buy and buy something that's very reasonable and that gets the job done where you feel safe. But don't lease stuff, no. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author. My daughter is my co-host today. Open phones at AAA 825-5-2-2-25.

Starting point is 01:24:46 James is in Indianapolis. Hi, James. How are you? Hello, hey, I'm doing fine. Thanks for taking my call. And hello to Rachel and to Mr. Ramsey. Well, thank you, sir. I appreciate all the information you've given throughout the years.

Starting point is 01:25:02 Thank you, sir. And I've got a little problem, and I just need you to let me. know the direction you would take with this. You got it. I've got, okay, I've got two sons. I'm 70. My wife is 70. She's in great health.

Starting point is 01:25:15 I have cancer. But I'm in remission at this time, so I'm good. But, you know, time's going to be most likely shorter from me than her because her mom's in her 90s and her family has that longevity. But she's doing great, great caregiver. Love that lady. But I have two sons. 142, 138, and we're going to have about a $2 million inheritance for them. The 42-year-old is great.

Starting point is 01:25:46 He's got his wife under control, does things as he would expect people to do, you know, pays his bills, does this, that, and the other saves his money. And then I've got my other son, he's not very good with money, and he's got triplets. He's divorced 10 years now, and he's been living with us for two years. And that was to get him back on his feet, plus they were two when he got divorced. And a single dad, he gets the kids half time, so he's not in a position. You know, how do you take care of two girls if you're a single dad and you're working?

Starting point is 01:26:23 And he is working, and that's the plus side of it. However, he's went through the equity on the home they sold. which was about $60,000. I didn't know he had done that. And then we gave him about $30,000 from my mom's estate. We were dividing it in thirds between my wife, myself, and my two boys. And he went through that. And I'm sure it's a gambling issue.

Starting point is 01:26:54 I can't verify that because he's never said, but there's no physical evidence of spending $150,000. you know, so on, because he spent all his wages as well during that time, and he has about $4,000 in the bank after living with us for two years. The only thing he pays for is daycare, and it is expensive. It's $250 a week for these three girls, and he pays for that. And we've set aside that $2.50 when he moves out, he will pay his. rent, but at any rate, I just want to know the inheritance piece of it. What do we do?

Starting point is 01:27:42 Well, I don't think you're blessing him if you leave him a million dollars. No, and I don't want to leave it all at once either. Well, I mean, you're going to when you die. That's going to be, you know, he's not, he's not been blessed by anything else. And so money magnifies the good parts of our life and the bad parts of our life. And so far, money that he's he's gotten as magnified the bad parts. Absolutely have. Yeah. So why is he still living with you?

Starting point is 01:28:13 Because he'll have $4,000 in the bank, and he's got these triplets, and he gets them half-time, and he can't put a riff over his head at this point. Why? What's he make? He makes $22 an hour, which next summer, or this coming summer, he may get to $25. and then he has a chance to get the 35, but that's going to be two or three years down there. Now, he won't, was giving him the get out, you know, get out when you're no longer than January of next year. And why does it say on my screen that he's under house arrest?

Starting point is 01:28:50 What does that mean? That is a DUI, and he has a brace for him on his ankle, so he goes to work, comes back here. I don't have to worry about him spending money because. But we still don't know where all his money's going. You know what? He's spending money somewhere. Well, he was spending online gambling, of course. All right.

Starting point is 01:29:13 So what would I do? You asked me early in the conversation. What would I do if I woke up in your shoes? My son's about the same age. Okay. What I would do is the conditions for you to continue to live here are that you start being responsible as a man. And that means you've got to stop spending everything you make on online gambling.

Starting point is 01:29:34 So if you gamble one more time online, you have to leave our home. Right. And so I'm not going to support you destroying your own life. I'm not going to buy you heroin when you're a heroin addict. I'm not going to give you shelter while you're misbehaving. I'm not blessing you. I'm enabling you when I do that. And I love you too much to participate willingly or unwillingly in your destruction.

Starting point is 01:30:01 And to make sure that that's not happening. Because, I mean, you can't really control that. has his own money. So I would be, I would ask for a shared account with him for a, like, I mean, there needs to be some behavior changes. I'm going to have some visibility into his internet access. Yeah. And treat him like he's an addict. Treat him like he was an addict because he's an addict. If he's unwilling to do that, then he needs to move out and figure out his own way. And that's, your wife doesn't want him to do that. But your wife is wrong. He needs to be kicked out. It's the best thing that'll happen to him. Because the, the path.

Starting point is 01:30:34 that he's on is a path of destruction, and it's not a loving act to assist in an act of destruction. It's called enabling. Enablers are nice people. They're sweet people, but they're not helpful people. They think they're helping, but they're not helping. And so when I do things like this or when you do things like this, we're enablers. And so I would stop that. Then the second part of it is, as far as the estate goes, I would leave his portion into a trust that he has no access to until he proves to the trustee that he's cleaned up his life and he's become responsible because I'm not leaving a million dollars to a gambling addict draft kings is going to get it all and I don't want to leave a million dollars to draft kings it's not I didn't work all my life to do that and it's not a

Starting point is 01:31:20 blessing to the person that's being victimized by draft kings or whoever else you know whatever else I mean, we're seeing the sports gambling. It's just an epidemic among men under 40 years old. And it's just destroying men left and right and families left and right. It's evil. And everybody thinks it's cute to parlay. I got your parlay. Be broke.

Starting point is 01:31:48 That's what you're parlaying. So, no, I'm not going to participate in that. And I'm disgusted with it. And I'm disgusted that he's been victimized by it. And he's allowed himself to be victimized by. He ends up, though, for real, not being able to support himself, then the girls end up with the mom full-time custody, I would assume. Well, and, you know, grandma and grandpa are standing there ready to help with the trip. With the girls, yes.

Starting point is 01:32:09 I was going to say. If you know, if when you're keeping the kids, if you want to bring them over, I'll help you keep the kids on your days on, you know, because you got two little girls. That's what grandma's doing right now. Yeah. She's bringing, how does a single dad deal with two little girls? Grandma's helping. That's what's happening. So just keep doing that.

Starting point is 01:32:25 I'll help you and help you with the kids. kids, but you can't live here. I'm not going to support you and I'm not going to give you money and I'm not going to give you money until you prove yourself to be, to be a, to where the money is going to be a blessing to you. It's not a punishment. It's I don't want to cause your ruin. You're on a path towards ruining your life. And I don't want to add fuel to that fire. Hey, guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help any time with Ask Ramsey.

Starting point is 01:33:36 Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to Ramsey Solutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's Ramsey Solutions.com. Well, we wish we could get to every call and every question here on the show. If you have a money question and you want an answer for your situation, but you couldn't get through, head on over to the website and use our tool Ask Ramsey. Ask Ramsey is a free AI tool that's built and trained on proven principles.

Starting point is 01:34:29 Like we dumped years and years and years of recalls from this show into it, all the books I've written into it, all the financial peace university lessons are into it, all the books Rachel wrote are into it. And based on that, it'll give you an answer. So AI, when it has a good data set, can give you really good correct answers. And obviously, ask Ramsey's going to give you a Ramsey answer. You'll get an answer the same way as if we did it right here on the show. Ask your question today at Ramsey Solutions.com or click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. Jackie is in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi, Jackie.

Starting point is 01:35:04 How are you? Hi. I am good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Wow, I can't believe I'm speaking to you. This is so cool. Okay. So my question is a relational question, and I'm hoping to get a third-party objective viewpoint from you guys. So my dear fiancé has some very frugal tendencies that border on being cheap. And I'm wondering if this means we are incompatible or if it should cause me to reassess our relationship.

Starting point is 01:35:36 Oh, man. Okay, so give me a couple of examples of what you consider cheap. Or gosh, okay. Borderline crazy. Or borderline crazy. Okay. So it can be something small. Like if I call him to say like, hey, can you pick up some avocados on the way home?

Starting point is 01:35:53 I can hear him like his brain is short circuiting on the other end trying to think of like the cheapest grocery store to get avocados. So it can be something small like that. Or just bigger stuff like paying for day. and groceries and so yeah you mean he wants you to pay for dates yes I should probably give you a little more context though so he and I are engaged and we are living together please don't yell at me Dave and we also have a two-year-old son together so we've kind of we've gone through a lot in our relationship early on yes he he still pays for a date I want to give him a date anymore. He's a shack up. So it's a completely different thing. So, I mean, he's the father. He's the baby daddy now. I mean, come on. So, yeah. I think it's too late to decide if you're going to marry the guy. I think you've already decided. You set your entire life up as if you're married already.

Starting point is 01:36:59 Oh, I agree. I think that's probably like the root cause of some of our fights. I would say, say that early on, like, one of our disagreements was on living together. I wanted to wait until we were married until we lived together. So why aren't you married? Well, I wanted to be early on, but he wanted to take things slow. But at the same time, he wanted to live together. I agree. It's not exactly slow. That's kind of where I agree. He, um, taking things slow was basically like not marrying me, but he still wanted to live together. And this is where, like, the frugal part comes up because, um, I think our, like, framework for making decisions is very different. It seems like the only thing he can, um, make a decision around is saving money. So, like, we, we had a big disagreement

Starting point is 01:37:56 on living together. For me, I wanted to be married first and try to, like, do things back in the correct order. But for him, it all revolved around, say, money and like the practical side of it. And so like that kind of created a big conflict. Which yeah, which that would feel like he is choosing quote unquote financial security or whatever he wants over you who's the mother of his child. Yeah. Yeah. And so we did actually live separately because I needed that. And so by the time he proposed after that, he then wanted to move in together. And I felt like we just got to an impasse in our relationship where it was like someone

Starting point is 01:38:42 has to cave here. And so I did and I allowed him to move in. But to be honest, I feel like that's like the root of our conflict. And so to your point, Dave, like, why aren't we married? I kind of agree with you. But I think like the way he went about it made me hesitant on moving forward with marriage because it felt like we were just. Okay.

Starting point is 01:39:04 So I guess there's three options, right? You get married. Yep. You don't get married and stay shacked up in this exact situation. Or you split up? Yeah. Those are the three options. And I feel like those are...

Starting point is 01:39:21 And so I don't know how not getting married and staying in this situation solves your concern of him being cheap. So if you are so... if you decide he's too cheap to marry, this is too dysfunctional for it to marry, then you're saying you're splitting up. But I think it goes beyond that for you, Jackie. I don't think it's just that you think he's cheap. I think there's been other red flags in what he prioritizes.

Starting point is 01:39:54 You don't feel chosen ever in this. He wanted to wait, but then he gets you still, even though he doesn't need the commitment. I mean, it feels like he's choosing a lot of what he's wanting. and it doesn't and it's not you at the end of the day right it's financial security it's well I want to be in a relationship but I don't want to commit to marriage you know it's all of that so I think a lot of I would think some of that's brewing even if it's subconscious of like am I going to be chosen at all in this yeah over his nitpickiness on finances so this is this is way beyond I've yeah I think this is I do um so I

Starting point is 01:40:35 before you, I mean, before you walk down an aisle and commit yourself to him long term, I mean, you kind of already have. You guys have a kid together, so he's going to be part of your life forever. But before you guys get married, I would sit down with a great therapist, counselor, and really be working on something. Because again, it's coming out like money, but always there's a root of what's going on underneath. And getting to that point of what's causing some of this conflict in you is going to be

Starting point is 01:41:04 really important for you guys, which I pray is a wonderful flourishing marriage ahead of you, right? Like I want you guys to win. Can he grow past this? Yes, but basically at the root of this is selfishness. This guy's selfish. It's what he gets and what he wants and what it's about him. And which means that he's not a great man right now. Can he become a great man? Yeah, sure. But it's going to require some growth on his part. And it's probably going to require you to something you've never done before and that's drawing a line in the sand and demanding it. Yeah. And so you guys are going to sit down with a good counselor and begin doing some hard work, both of you.

Starting point is 01:41:45 And he's going to have to start saying, oh, my job here is to take care of this wonderful woman named Jackie and this baby I made with her and quit acting like a twirp over avocados. That's my job. I have a new job. It's called manhood. It's serving. Not what you can get, what you can give. And by the way, the odd thing is that happiness is in there. You find happiness when you learn how to serve.

Starting point is 01:42:11 Selfishness seldom leads to happiness. It doesn't lead to joy. Selfish people are seldom joyful people. They look like they were weaned on a pickle. And so, you know, that's the good news for him. He's got that as a possibility, a choice that he can make here. But if you, you know, one of the things we talk about at Ramsey in leadership, and we teach this to people in companies on leadership,

Starting point is 01:42:34 you get what you tolerate. And in this relationship, you've been tolerating a lot, and so you're getting what you've tolerated. And so my encouragement lovingly to you is to help him by not tolerating him anymore at this level and saying, we're going to get some help because I feel like you're here for what you can get rather than what you can give,

Starting point is 01:42:59 and I'm tired of being the only one here giving. And so we're going to get some therapy, and we're going to get some getting a good church, and we're going to get plugged in, and we're going to move down the aisle in a proper way as a man and a woman, not a little boy in his needs. When I talk to people on the Ramsey show,

Starting point is 01:44:04 90% of the problems I hear come down to one thing, not having a plan. They're not living on a budget. They have no idea where their money's going. Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money. And guys, that is so normal, but it doesn't have to be normal for you.

Starting point is 01:44:22 And that's why I want you to go download our Every Dollar budget app. Every Dollar not only helps you tell your money where to go with a budget, it also builds a plan to free up extra money so you can pay debt off faster and start building wealth. And the best part, your plan is completely personalized to your life. It's the same advice that you would get if you call the show. And it's right in your pocket. So don't keep living normal. Go download the Every Dollar app, answer a few questions, and get it.

Starting point is 01:44:52 It's your plan today. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. Jeff and Krista are with us. Hey guys, how are you? Doing well. Welcome. Where do you all live? Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.

Starting point is 01:45:19 Well, welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you two paid off? $210,000. Oh, my gosh. And how long did this take? 17 years. Okay, that'll work. I love it.

Starting point is 01:45:31 And your range of income during that time? We started at $60,000. We ended $110,000. Wow. What do you all do for a living? I'm a college professor at a small Christian university in Oklahoma. And I am a minister at a, I like to say, a healthy church of 65. Okay.

Starting point is 01:45:49 I'll go with that. I like it. Oh, how wonderful. What was the $210,000? Student loan, card debt, and the house. You paid off your house. Done. Looking at weirdos.

Starting point is 01:46:02 How does it feel to be weird? It's pretty amazing. We paid it off on our anniversary this last year. How long you've been married? 28, 7? What are we at? We were at 7. 7.5.

Starting point is 01:46:17 27 and a half. Maybe 28 if he figures this is. We're working on 28. We are. We're 28. Way to go, you guys. So 10 years into the marriage at 17 years ago, you looked up, you looked up and said, we're normal.

Starting point is 01:46:33 This sucks. How did you get introduced to this whole? Ramsey thing? Well, initially it was through a church. They were doing FPU and we kind of went through it, watched the videos. I was looking at your timeline over there. It was like the six-month long one. Yeah. Whatever it was. And we didn't do any of that stuff for a number of years. It sounded pretty good. But as you say, I'm probably the one that held it back. More of this free spirit. She's the kind of nerd of the family. But we kind of got into our marriage and realized that we probably had been taught very well on these kind of things. And I think the big thing was we were moving for

Starting point is 01:47:11 jobs and ministry and we went to sell a house in about 2010 and the house that 2008, 2009 was worth about 30 grand less than we had borrowed on it at that point and all of the stress that came with that, that we decided, yeah, we needed to get out of all that anxiety. Yeah. And for us, I think, you know, when you say 17 years, it doesn't sound impressive. But I think what's really cool is all the things we cash flowed while we did that. So the Lord just asks us to do a whole lot of things and have a list. Okay. So we have adopted six kids.

Starting point is 01:47:46 Whoa. Oh my gosh. Four of them are international adoptions. That was cheap. Yeah, right. Exactly. We have, our three oldest kids have graduated college. Well, the one's going to graduate this year.

Starting point is 01:47:57 Debt free. Wow. Beautiful family. The four younger ones are in private school, which we felt very strongly we needed to do. for several reasons. All six of the oldest kids have had 401 Dave matching cars. Wow.

Starting point is 01:48:14 We've had several cars that we've purchased and sold through that time as well. We have a mission organization called Mission 1010 in Ethiopia that we were on the founding board for, and I go yearly for mission trips to Ethiopia. That's where you did the adoptions? Yes, it is. Some of them are, and then some of them were domestically here.

Starting point is 01:48:31 Two of them. Foster care. You adopted? How many? Eight or six? Six. Six. Wow.

Starting point is 01:48:37 And so we were trying to count up on our way here. Number of health surgery incidents. I think we've had 10 surgeries in our family in the past 17 years. Well, that's, yeah, that's logical. And every single appliance in our house has been replaced at least once. One summer we replaced both of our heat and air units. So that was eight grand just right there in the summer. And you're cash flow in all this.

Starting point is 01:48:59 Right, right, yes. And you're a professor of what? I'm a professor of mathematics. Mathematics. And in fact, I teach a unit in our, we call it contemporary mathematics, on financial math at the very end. And we talk about this, and we talk about Murphy's Law and about all the things that can go wrong with purchasing a home before you're ready for it.

Starting point is 01:49:19 And I mentioned... Probability and statistics, yeah. And I mentioned about our AC units that one summer. And I mentioned about, you know, the surgeries that show up that you're not expecting and all the things that can happen when you're just not ready to buy a house and how buying a house is really not a good idea. So now you've gone through all of this and you're 100% debt-free. Oh, sir.

Starting point is 01:49:40 How does that feel? It's amazing. It's amazing. I was over there and I think it was a John Dolanie book that says building an unanxious life. A non-anxious life, yeah. A non-anxious life. And when you're, you know, raising adopted kids and foster kids, it's nice not to have the anxiety of finances. Of something else.

Starting point is 01:49:58 When you're doing all of that. That's enough. That just kind of resonated with me. Just the anxiety level just drops amazing. when you don't have to worry about just car payments, much less home payments. Yeah, the first month that we didn't have a house payment, we got to the point where I would have normally checked to make sure that there was enough money at the right timing in the account, you know, and so forth. Yeah. And I thought, oh, I need to check that.

Starting point is 01:50:18 And I thought, no, I don't. I don't need to check that. It's all in there. Yeah. Oh, my God. That is so fun. Y'all are amazing people. I mean, not only to do this journey, but what you've done.

Starting point is 01:50:30 Yeah, you've given your lives away. I mean, 100%. It's amazing. I think it's honestly what you do and what, I mean, it's just biblical. We talk about, you got to talk about all that all the time. As a minister, I just preach all the time that the church needs to preach this stuff. Just the effectiveness of a debt-free church, I just can't imagine what it would be like. And the more that we get on board with that, I just can't imagine what God would do if we were good stewards of our finances.

Starting point is 01:50:58 Yeah, yeah, it changes everything. And here you are with your house paid for and six adopt. Oh my gosh. Pretty incredible. That's a long journey and there's a lot of claw and a lot of dirt under the fingernails to get that done. That's amazing. It was one of those things like you want to go faster, but when you're trying to manage all the other things that the Lord's asking you to do at the same time, it just wasn't in the cards. Yeah, you talk about the hustle sometimes.

Starting point is 01:51:22 Sometimes it's just realizing you can live with a lot less than you think you can. So along the way, Jeff actually had been working in corporate America as well in IT, and he took a significant pay cut to become a pastor. And I remember our oldest son saying after that it happened that he didn't feel like there was a pay cut. He didn't feel it. And I think that's pretty incredible because he should have felt it was significant. Yes. But you guys were living so below your means to work on this journey. And for other things.

Starting point is 01:51:52 Yeah. Exactly. Oh, y'all are amazing. Well done, you guys. Good job. When someone asks what the key to getting out of debt is, house and everything, while living a life that's this full, what do you tell them the key is? Budgeting, I think.

Starting point is 01:52:08 I'm making sure that you've got all of the things taken care of. Yeah, I would say diligence and, yeah, and I think one of the keys things is find some fun. Yeah. Right? You can't pay all. And so there's less expensive ways. I mean, we still go on ski trips.

Starting point is 01:52:27 We still go to the lake. We still do those kind of things. And so I think having fun in the middle of it is still necessary, too. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well done, you guys. All right, bring the kiddos up and introduce them. Some of them are here anyway. Yeah. So this is Jewel and she's 12. Boise is 18. Camberley is 17. Eli is 18 and Abigail is 21. All right. Very cool.

Starting point is 01:52:53 You'll have a bunch leaving the house soon. The ages, yeah. Getting close, yeah. Yes. That's, yeah, that's a different praise note. Beautiful family guys. payrolls going down. Well, congratulations. We're proud of you guys. Your heroes.

Starting point is 01:53:08 What you've chosen to do with your lives and give your lives away. And in the process, still manage to set yourself free. Very, very well done. A lot of diligence. Very heroic. A lot of pushing. All right, Jeff and Krista and the gang. Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, $210,000 paid off house and everything.

Starting point is 01:53:28 17 years, get this. making 60 to a high of 110. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! That's how it's done. Well, we sometimes hear from people negatively

Starting point is 01:53:55 that the Ramsey stuff does not work. God's ways of handling money does not work for large families. And then occasionally we get a super large family standing on the debt-free stage with tears running. down their face saying it does work. We're free. House and everything, baby. Perseverance.

Starting point is 01:54:14 I love it. Incredible. It's that time again, folks. Tax season is here. I know some of you would rather bury your head in the sand until April 15th than face your taxes. But here's a better idea. If your tax situation is complicated, get in touch with a Ramsey

Starting point is 01:55:13 trusted tax pro today. That way they can take the stress off your shoulders and once those tax forms come in and teach you how to keep your tax bill as low as possible. But don't wait, Ramsey trusted pros can book up fast. Go to ramsysolutions.com slash tax pro to find one who serves your area with excellence. That's ramsysolutions.com slash tax pro. Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 1114, where there is no guidance of people fall. But in an abundance of counselors, there is safety.

Starting point is 01:56:03 Brian Tracy said failure is a prerequisite for great success. If you want to succeed faster, double your rate of failure. That's good. Barry is with us in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Barry. How are you? Well, and you, and thank you, Mr. Ramsey and staff for taking my call. Sure.

Starting point is 01:56:21 What's up? Well, I'm wondering, I have a small account in state teachers' retirement system. It's very small, maybe 20 or 25,000. And I've been since my almost full retirement now at 67, I've heard on the internet that you could use something called an IUL, which is tax-free. And I know STRS does pretty good with a percentage that they earn, but I've heard that there's two ways to set up an IUL. One is so that it pays a lot at your death. And the other one is so that you can earn interest without taxation. So I don't trust the Internet, because I don't know where they're coming from.

Starting point is 01:57:01 but I trust you because I know where your power comes from. So I call for advice. Well, the IUL is an indexed universal life. And in your case, it would be what's called a single premium, which means you pay $20,000 bucks up front. They would take their commissions out of that, and they would put the rest of it into what's called cash value. The cash value earnings are taxable unless you borrow against your cash value.

Starting point is 01:57:29 That's the only way that you can actually get your money out is to borrow and pay interest. Borrow your money out and pay interest. But the earnings on an IUL are not tax-free. That's not true. Okay. Is there any way, so thank you for telling me that. Is there any way to roll that over into an IUL? No, I would not use an IUL because the fees are so stinking high.

Starting point is 01:57:54 And when you die, your money's gone. so instead I would just use something if you want to lower your taxes on the 20,000 and you're not going to use the income off of the 20,000 today. Do you want it to create income today? Yeah, I thought from what I heard on the Internet again, you never know. I thought that you could actually earn interest in that it was not taxed. Well, you have to borrow the money and pay interest on your own money for a taxed. to be not taxable because borrowed money is never taxable. But if you actually just took the earnings straight off of the index universal, then, yes, that is a taxable event.

Starting point is 01:58:38 So, but the, but they, they couch it that way because it's a sales technique on it. It's a, it's a twisted version of an old product that was simply called Whole Life Life Insurance. That's all it is. It's a, it's a newer version of screwing you. So, no, I would not put a dime in it. I would stay completely away from it. And what I have done instead is a taxable event, but if you want something that will grow without any taxes while it grows, you can use what's called a low turnover mutual fund, which means a mutual fund that they don't sell the stocks inside of it very often. And so as it grows in value, since it's just like a single stock that goes up in value, you don't pay tax on it until you sell it.

Starting point is 01:59:26 And so if you buy a share of stock and it's $50 a share goes to $70 a share, you don't pay taxes on that gain until you sell it. And the same is true in a low turnover mutual fund. Now, if you take the money out of there in a monthly income, you're going to pay taxes on it. And I don't know of a tax-free thing except a tax-free muni bond, a municipal bond, but you can buy a muni-bond fund if you wanted tax-free income. But go ahead and, spoiler alert, it's about 2%. rate of return. And so crummy rate of return. So I would rather make 10 or 12 and pay some taxes

Starting point is 02:00:01 and net out 10 or 12 or net out eight or 10, you know, out of tax after tax. And so that's what I have chosen to do. I haven't strained to get to tax-free income. Now, I've got a lot of tax-deferred growth because I own real estate. And as it goes up in value, it doesn't get taxed. And I own these low turnover mutual funds, and as it goes up, it doesn't get taxed until I cash out of it. And then it creates a taxable event called a capital gain. But no, I would stay away from universal indexed life, and you're correct to be suspicious of anything on the internet because it's all twisted and turned and it's a barrel of fish hooks. Yeah, that's one of the things that you see is people taking out a whole life policy and living

Starting point is 02:00:51 off that money because life insurance should be while you're alive. and you're living off that money. The only way you're living off of, it's borrowed. It's when you're borrowed. You're borrowing your own money. So you could take that same block of money and put it in a CD and have that bank loan you money. And that's not taxable because it's borrowed money.

Starting point is 02:01:10 It's the exact same thing. So if you want to do something very similar but has less fees, just put your money in a CD. And then borrow for it. And then use that as collateral and borrow against the CD. And of course, we're not going to tell you to do that either. That's dumb. But it's the exact same principle. Yes.

Starting point is 02:01:24 And then when you die, they're going to repay the loan with the CD. And so there's nothing there. It's gone. Poof. Just like that. And the same thing's true with the universal. Same thing. So, you know, but, you know, borrow, that it's always been humorous to me that these

Starting point is 02:01:41 guys in the cash value life insurance world, it's tax free. It's borrowed money is never taxable, dufus. Of course, it's tax free. You know, I mean, these guys, these TikTok guys are just, they're cute. they're like an old, it's like a new version of an old scam. Bailey is in Asheville, North Carolina. Hi, Bailey. How are you?

Starting point is 02:02:03 Good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So I have a question about, so I can just give you the rundown. So my wife and I own a business and we make custom hats for a living out of our own laundry room. I'm 23. I'm still in school. I got married in 2023. We had our first child in 24, and now we have another son on the way. Good for you. And how much you're making on the

Starting point is 02:02:37 hat business, dude? So we just started up in 2024. I'm at about 40 grand that is in my pocket this year. So far. In profit or in gross revenues? In profit? That's after you bought the hats and paid for them. Right, yes. Good for you. And you did that in three months. So you make $10,000 a month on hats? No, I'm sorry.

Starting point is 02:03:02 I meant to say last year. This year we... Oh, so in one year you made $40,000 with your side hustle out of the laundry room? Yes. That's awesome, man. And you're how old, 24? 23. How do you make it your day job?

Starting point is 02:03:19 So I was working for a guy that he was a, He owned a print shop. Do you have a day job? Oh, no, I do not have a day job. So your only job is hats out of the laundry room? Yes. Good for you. Wow, okay.

Starting point is 02:03:38 How can I help far run out of time? So I actually have an opportunity to purchase another printing business that would allow me to expand my business. He's in a brick and mortar, but that is separate from the business. I would not do that. You have a good thing going. Why are you dumbing it down and getting into a business that's dying? Your hat business is blowing up. Printing business is tough right now.

Starting point is 02:04:09 Well, so he's kind of doing exactly what I'm doing, but he's doing screen printing. I'm doing hats. Yeah, but you don't have all the overhead. Right. I don't. Why would you want overhead? Well, the only purpose is for the location at the building is in. It's a great...

Starting point is 02:04:31 Why do you need a location? Your laundry room's working great. Right, for sure. I'm just... I'm kind of running out of room as well. Well, go rent something for $300 somewhere. Don't go purchase something big. Do not go buy a building and buy a business because your hat business is working out of your laundry room.

Starting point is 02:04:48 No, no, no, no. These things are not connected. They're not connected. You are doing a great job. Take what you're doing and do more of it. Don't take on somebody else's problems. Okay. Let me tell you, a hat business, you're doing all this on the internet.

Starting point is 02:05:04 You're not, you're marketing. A brick and mortar location does not sell you hats. If it does, go to the person that's got the brick and mortar location and rent a hundred square feet of their front window from them. But don't take on the whole business. And no, no, no, no, no, go do more hats, Bailey. Hats are working. That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it.

Starting point is 02:05:30 In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

The Ramsey Show - Financial Peace Starts With Personal Honesty

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