The Ramsey Show - Get in the Driver’s Seat of Your Own Life

Episode Date: April 28, 2026

❓ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Have a money question? Ask Ramsey is here to help.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 📈 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Are you on track with the Baby Steps? Get a Free Personalized Plan.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Rachel Cruze and Dr. John Delony answer your questions and discuss: “My parents keep buying things for me but they're struggling financially, how do I get them to stop?” “My husband and I don't agree on whether we should close our credit cards.” “Should we use our emergency fund to buy a couch?” “Should I pay for a certification to increase my income while I'm in debt?” “My in-laws want us to build an addition on their home for me to live in, should we do it?” Next Steps: ✔️⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Help us make the show better. Please take this short survey.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 weekdays from 2–5 p.m. ET or⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠send us an email⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. 💵 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 🏠 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Get organized and prepared to buy or sell a home⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 🚢 ⁠Set Sail with Dave Ramsey! Book your cabin today.⁠ Connect With Our Sponsors: Get 10% off your first month of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BetterHelp⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Boost Mobile⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to switch today! If you want your car to keep going and going, trust ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Christian Brothers Automotive⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Find a local shop and get an exclusive Ramsey discount of 10% (up to $250) off Learn more about⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Christian Healthcare Ministries⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get started today with⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Churchill Mortgage⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get 20% off when you join ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠DeleteMe⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Go to⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ FAIRWINDS Credit Union⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for an exclusive account bundle! Debt collectors hassling you? Take back control of your life at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Guardian Litigation Group⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Find top health insurance plans at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Health Trust Financial⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Use code RAMSEY to save 20% at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Mama Bear Legal Forms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Visit⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ NetSuite⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ today to learn more. Get started with ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YRefy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or call 844-2-RAMSEY Visit⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Zander Insurance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or call 1-800-356-4282 for your free instant quote today! Explore more from Ramsey Network: 💸 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Ramsey Show Highlights⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 🧠 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Dr. John Delony Show⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 🍸 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Smart Money Happy Hour⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 💰 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠George Kamel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 🪑 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 📈 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠EntreLeadership⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Brought to you by the Every Dollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. This is The Ramsey Show. And I am Rachel Cruz hosting at this hour with Dr. John Deloney and we'll be taking your calls. And the lines are open. So give us a call at AAA 825-5-2-2-25.

All right. First step, we're going to Little Rock, Arkansas, and we have Dylan on the line. Hi, Dylan. Hi, how are you? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help? Well, I'm being kind of in a situation, and I'm trying to figure out how to dig myself out of a hole. All right.

So what's going on? So I'm 28. You know, I'm married, got two kids, a five-year-old and a three-year-old. About three years ago, we were kind of in a situation. We were renting a house. It was just disgusting. It was mold infested. Our second was on the way, and we decided to buy a house,

and it was not really a great time to buy, but we didn't really have an option. I don't feel like we really bought out of our means. It's just been a lot of things happening leading into it. Okay. And then attacking stuff on top of it. bought the house for about 149,000. We were doing good. My son got really sick, started developing seizures.

We fought that for several weeks, destroyed the nest egg that I had put back for us, missing work, trying to stay caught up on bills. We ended up falling behind on the mortgage, and I had to refinance it for a higher interest rate and a longer term. And every year, the payments just settled. gone up and up and up.

We've got some vehicle payments and some other loans and stuff like that that are just kind of tacked on top of it. And we're not necessarily, like, extremely behind. I'm running about a month behind right now, but I can't seem to get caught up. To get ahead. Yeah. Yeah, you sounds tired and the situation which you laid out to us. It's a lot.

You have a lot that you guys are juggling. Okay. So how much are you making per year? So me, I'm making right around $82,000 a year. Okay. My wife just started a new job. And roughly what she's making is supposed to be around $35,000 a year, but she just started. Okay.

And she gets paid once a month, and we don't even know what a full paycheck of hers is going to look like just yet. Okay. So she's not received a paycheck from that yet, that's what you're saying. Okay. Okay. Okay, so household income per month that's going to hit your account. I know you don't know from your wife, but if you know what she's making, I mean, so you guys probably are going to hit around 10K, would you say? Not quite. I'm bringing home roughly $4,400 a month after taxes. And I'm-44, but you make $82. Right. So that's with a, they give us a $4,400. tool bonus that's like $1,600. After taxes and health insurance and everything, I'm supposed to be

bringing home around $1,500 before taxes, and I'm bringing home right at about $1,100 and $1,200. So between $44 and I guess maybe a little bit more per week. Did you get a big tax refund? No. In April. Okay. Are they pulling anything out for retirement? I did put a stop on it. I was putting in. around 9%, but then I found out the company doesn't start matching until after the first year, so I was like, well, I could use the money now. So I put a stop to it,

and so now I'm just bringing home whatever I get after taxes. Okay, I would double-tie. There's something missing here. You're missing about $20,000. Yeah, that feels super low. That's like half of your income going to taxes

and health care, and I don't think that's the case. So I would, so I would double check that. I would talk to your HR department. I mean, I would, I would just, I would look through. I mean, you just filed taxes and we just passed tax season, so you should know. But for you guys, so it's basically like if she brings home two grand a month, $6,400. So what do you, so debt, let's talk about the cars.

You said you have two car payments. How much do you owe on the cars? Her car, we owe right around $12,000 to $13,000. I'm not 100% because it's been. kind of her thing. I let her take care of her car. She pays the insurance. And then pretty much everything else just falls on me. I take care of everything else. My truck payment was kind of stupid. We started talking about it. I needed a truck for the things that I was doing on a little side job that I was trying to help a friend with. So I bought a truck. And for a side job for your friends.

You're such a good friend, Dylan. How much does this truck cost? $45,000. Oh, God. Good God, Almighty. Dylan. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah, it was, at the time, I felt like I could afford it. You can't. Okay, how much could you get for it today if you just went and sold it and you guys became a one-car family? What if you just went crazy? What could you get for it? I would say maybe $28,000 because I went in upside down and then bought an extended warranty on top of it.

Okay. All right. Well, I, so, okay, so you got the two car loans. Keep going. What do you guys have in credit card debt? I don't really have any credit card debt. I got about $800. Does your wife? No, as far as I'm aware of. Okay. So that's another, that's another flag here, Dylan. You guys aren't, you, you don't really know what's going on in your household between you and her. The two adults, no, no, Dylan, the two adults that are supposed to be in charge of taking care of a household and these two kids, you guys don't know what's going on. Like, you don't know what's going on with each other. You can't. you tell you said that you're what that's her responsibility of the car and she just takes care of that and then I'm over and I'm like are you two roommates like no and and part of that honestly though Dylan part of the synergy is that you guys are so scattered you're making decisions on urgency in a situation you're not coming together and talking about this that's that's the that's one of the benefits of getting married is you have two adults sitting in the room with two different brains that

you actually get to lean on each other and talk and you guys are making decisions in vacuums and you're making them urgently in in desperate situations which usually always equals bad financial decisions and so because bro a a wife with one ounce of care about her husband would have said please don't buy a truck that you can't afford for your friends project on the weekend buddies neighbors roommates dog like you know what I mean and it's kind of my own fault. Like I, it's not, I can honestly say her, like really pushing it to be this way. It's been the way that I was raised. The way you're raised sucks. Okay. So, let's do this. Starting today, you sit down with your wife and you apologize and say, I've wronged you. I have left you out

in the coal. I've tried to do all this myself. And I'm doing a bad job. And I keep digging us a deeper and deeper and deeper hole. And until you take control, like the only, the only thing, the only The only thing that happened to you in this is that your kid had seizures. And God bless anybody who's going through their kid being sick. You guys didn't have to buy a house. You didn't have to buy a truck. You didn't have to just make your wife like you deal with this on your own. You've got to.

You don't even know what's on your own paycheck, brother. You have to get in the driver's seat of your own life. Yeah. I'm going to own this thing. So stay on the line and Christian's going to pick up and we're going to give you guys a year of every dollar. Because our goal for you, the very first step, Dylan, together tonight. with your wife, open up that app, start plugging some numbers in, and use some of the content in there to start creating a step, which are the baby steps. You need to get a $1,000 emergency fund,

and then you guys need to start attacking this debt. It's eating up your income. You have to get out of debt, and you do nothing with your life, nothing with your life, but sell stuff and get out of debt. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Financial stress does not just damage our bank accounts. It can also take a toll on our mental and emotional health and our relationships. Money worries cause anxiety and they are one of the leading sources of conflict for all types of couples. I know this. My wife and I have struggled with money conflicts for years. Listen, therapy can help even with money conversations. Therapy is not about financial advice, but it can help you build healthier ways of coping, give you strategies to communicate about money and give you a plan moving forward.

I want you to consider talking to my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is an online therapy platform that matches you with a licensed therapist based on your goals and preferences. Better Help therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and they are fully licensed in the United States. You can message your therapist in schedule sessions right in the platform. And if the first therapist isn't a great fit, you can switch at any time for no additional cost. When life feels overwhelming, therapy can help. Visit betterhelp.com slash Ramsey to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp.help.com slash Ramsey. Up next we have Andy in Minneapolis.

Hey, Andy, welcome to the show. Oh, uh-oh, hold on. Hi, thank you for taking my call. Hi, absolutely. How can we help today? I'm recently divorced. I left a 15-year abusive marriage, and I'm just figuring out my own finances for the first time in my adult life. And my question is kind of about my kids, though.

I have 12-year-olds who are incredible entrepreneurs, started their first business five years ago, are starting additional ones this year. And they're doing well financially. And I'm wondering how to teach them and guide them about finances when I am so new to this myself. What are they doing? Well, a few years ago, they started a beverage business and they sell beverages at events and concerts and like vendor shows. And now one is starting a 3D printing business and one is starting a science business. facts, YouTube, and channel and app and stuff.

Gosh, good for them, Andy. I'm trying to get my kids to pick up dog poop in the backyard. This is incredible. Well, they don't do that either, but I'm excited about it. Okay, so are you asking specifically how they manage the money they're making, or is it just more an overall question of, hey, like what? The money that they're making. Because they understand business expenses and budgeting.

but they are earning thousands of dollars, and I don't know how to guide them other than just put it in a bank account and don't make tons of big purchases. I just haven't had the capacity to learn more to teach them. Totally. Gosh, so impressive. Well, you know, the way I look at it with my kids, I have an 11-year-old. She's my oldest, and so we're starting to talk a little bit more beyond what I'm about to tell you, but I think just starting with the basics of them practicing. the three big buckets of money, which is giving, saving, and spending. And when you think about it as

adults, it's basically all we can do with money, right? You can be more sophisticated within those buckets, but like that's it. And so being able to do all three, if you're an adult and you can do all three well, you're a pretty well-rounded person with money. I would say you have a pretty healthy grasp on it. It's when people get to the extremes that it becomes difficult, right? They spend everything they make and they're broke or they save everything and they become hoarders and they're not fun enjoyable people to be around because they're just obsessed with, you know, keeping money. Like it, they're not generous people in that way. So I think the teaching them and letting them experience all three is going to be big. And so, I mean, we take kind of the old school approach,

which is what we tell adults to do is, you know, give some of your money. They have a 10% like, hey, whatever you make, 10% of it needs to go somewhere. And that can be out of a local church if you're there. It could be at something that they're passionate about, sometimes a nonprofit, whatever it looks like. But I think, you know, cultivating the spirit of one of the first things we do is we're givers, like we give. And there's something in that habit that I think is so beautiful. I think saving is really big. I mean, they're getting, I mean, they'll be 16 here, you know, before you know it. And so I'm like, I don't know if there's a really big purchase that they can be working towards like a car. And I don't know if they save for half,

you match half. I don't know what that looks like, but that could be a really good, tangible goal. And for some 12-year-olds, it probably feels far away. But yours sound like they're pretty, they're pretty in line with looking at big numbers, right, which would be like a bigger purchase, like a car. And then letting them enjoy some of it. And then letting, you know, having a percentage that they enjoy some of it. I mean, they are 12, you know, and they're making great money. So if there's something fun they want to buy, then that's great too, right? So I think not being legalistic about it, but I think the three rhythms of that give, save spend, I think it's going to be really big. And that's more the tactical side of money, but there's also the emotional side of

that contentment and that, you know what I mean? Like there's the emotional side of money, but for now, that's probably where I would steer you from a tactical side. And I'll just tell you, I wouldn't tell you to do something I don't do at my own house. My 10-year-old, she actually works a lot. She's always looking for ways to make more money. And my, I have a recent, 16 year old who since he was 12 he's been saving up for the the truck he just bought and so but we just put it in a regular checking I mean regular savings account and even for my son my wife connected it to a till account I don't even know what that is but that's how she pays him and puts it in there and but we don't mess with high yield savings accounts or any of that kind of stuff for for our kids

when you say they make thousands do they make 3,000 or do they make 20,000 has Okay, well, it's been, I think, 8,000 each overall, like for the past few years, but the one has like $5,000. And he asked me about investment accounts the other day. I'm like, I have no idea. So the line, the standard line is the biggest investment you can make right now is in you. And so let's say we're going to pay cash for a car. We're going to put some money away for schooling if we want to end up doing that. If you want to start this as if you graduate from high school and you decide you want to go full time into entrepreneurship, you're going to need some seed money.

And so the line that I use in my house is the biggest investment you can make right now is not in market returns. It's in you. Then when you get out of college is we want to start looking at big market returns. Yeah, because for a lot of investing, it is for a long term, it's a long term mindset. Like, you know, especially like retirement investing, you're going to touch it until you're 59, right? And a 12 year old doesn't need to be thinking about that where the math is fun. And for them to understand logically, my parents said that they taught us about mutual. Like, this is what this can do. But the reality is you're going to need cash on hand to buy a car at 16. You're need cash. I mean, my parents even told me, when you graduate college and that transition from college to the real world, whether you need first month to rent and last month's rent for your first apartment, you got to buy furniture. Like there is in the next 10 years of his life or her life, they're going to need cash. And majority people don't even have that. And so they end up in the negative as they start adulthood. So having that there where compound interest and everything, they're going to be fine if they start. investing at 21, 22, right? So I really, in my mind, I wouldn't because I wouldn't even

put money in like, oh, buy a stock here and watch it grow because we don't even teach single stocks. Like, I wouldn't even get in the habit of that. So I would have a tangible thing that they're saving for, that they're invested in. And usually the car is it for most teenagers, which is great. And then, hey, where can we continue to enjoy some of this and give some of it? And, Andy, I'll say to you, I mean, kudos to you. We always say more is caught and taught, just so true in your situation, what you've just walked through as you just flippantly kind of said it at the beginning. You're like, I left an abusive marriage and I'm on my own. I'm like, you, you are incredible. And so having a mom who is figuring the stuff out and has the humility to learn

and to ask and be curious about all of this, like they're going to learn so much from you to, without you even saying a word. So your example already of what you set for them is beautiful. And bring them in. Bring them into light milk. conversations and bring them in. Like if you want to do a basic run-through of your budget, your kids are pretty business savvy. Show them what stuff costs. And you'll see your kids start to turn the lights off. And you'll see your kids looking at like they'll bicker with each other. Like, it's at 74. Let's move it to 76. We can say, like, you'll see that kind of stuff happening. But let them watch you figure it out. I, on, on, not all the time, but a couple of times a year,

I'll hand my tithing check to one of my kids. I want them to see that check. And they'll look at me all wide-eyed and I'll say, it's not our money. Right. And they're like, oh, yeah, oh, yeah, right? But I don't like showing anybody that stuff. But that's how they're going to learn,

oh, my mom and my dad put their money where their mouth is. Right? So bring them into some of those conversations. How open are you, like, with the kids? Like, do I share income and all their... My kids don't know how much money I make. I don't give them like because and I don't tell them

my son knows that I've got a college account he does not know how much money's in that account because it's not his because he'll start spending it but I do show them how much stuff costs and that is that's been really eye-opening for everybody

and my daughter's 10 she's starting to come into those conversations with us okay yeah I think it is how I mean that that 12, 13, 14, they can start to grasp things. And if they know how much it takes to run a household and be an adult from car insurance to health insurance, life insurance, to the life bill. Netflix, all these things that we have, bundled together.

Here's how much this is. My son the other day just said, hey, dad, I think I'm going to drop out of high school right now, get a job McDonald's and start, like, I just want to start making money and whatever. And he had factored in rent. And I was like, okay, what about this and this and light bill? And he just goes, all right, I'll stay in. school. But it's just, it's, it's part of their growth process, but you aren't less than just because you don't have those stuff all dialed in. Let them watch mom learn. And that'd be the greatest gift you could give them. Hey, you guys, did you know that there are thousands of data brokers

whose entire business is collecting and selling personal information? Things like your home address, your phone number, and even your relatives names. You guys, that is just crazy. But that is why I use delete me. Because those companies that pull information from public records, social media, and all kinds of other places. Then suddenly, all that information shows up on random websites. And removing it yourself means going site by site, filling out forms, and hoping they actually take it down. It takes hours, and then it can even pop up somewhere else again. But delete me's team of privacy experts removes your personal information from hundreds of those data broker sites. And

within a week, you'll get a report showing what they have found and what they have removed. And they keep scanning and cleaning up your data year round. So take back control of your privacy. Go to join deleteme.com slash Ramsey and get 20% off your annual plan. That's join deleteme.com slash Ramsey. Are you sick and tired of working so hard, but having nothing to show for it? Well, that is so normal for so many people because normal is broke. And listen, you don't have to live that way. Our every dollar budget app helps you find extra money every month and helps you build a personalized plan to beat debt and build wealth. And in just 15 minutes, you can find thousands of dollars in hidden margin because it's going to feel like you got to raise. And we help you with all these prompts to be thinking outside the box of where your money is going.

So don't live normal. Do not live broke. Start every dollar for free in the app store or Google Play. All right, let's head to Phoenix. And we have Lauren on the line. Hi, Lauren. Welcome to the show. Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help?

Okay, so my husband and I started the Every Dollar app a couple months ago. He started listening to you guys and then got me on board. And we ended up selling our truck and taking out a personal loan for the balance and getting about 50,000 knocked off of our debt. Yeah, dude. Where to go? Good job. Yeah. So we were. super proud of that. And now we are actually evaluating if we should sell our house and use the profit

to wipe out the rest of our debt and just get a clean slate, rent for a couple of months, build up an actual down payment the right way, and just be able to kind of fast track getting debt free. So we have a significant amount of debt, so I can kind of list it out. Our monthly end time is 11,700 roughly. He's flat rate mechanic and I'm a nail tech, so it varies. Okay. But that's about what we're bringing in a month.

And then we've got his student loan balance is $3,650. We've got a credit card for $3,600. Our tax balance for this year is $52.77. The personal loan for the truck balance ended up being $7,500. Okay. We've got a solar loan attached to the house for 31,300, which we're hoping will be assumed by the next owner. That would be the goal. And then my null net balance or my student loan balance is about 47,000.

Okay. Yeah. You had me. I was like, oh, you can be able to do this? And then it's like, oh, $70 more $1,000, $75,000. But you guys, before taxes and stuff, you guys. guys are running what probably 130 um i think so my husband would know that better than yeah yeah 130 140 do you have little ones yes we have well we have three we have 15 12 and 10 year olds so

okay and how much is your mortgage a month a lot it is 3,032 dollars and we in two years have only knocked down 10 grand on principal on our house sure so we're like paying interest Yeah. Yeah, it's not crazy, though, in relation to your income. I thought you were going to say it was going to be like a $5,000 mortgage or $6,000 mortgage. So yeah, your house, I don't think Lauren is the problem. I mean, genuinely, like we say 25%, and you guys are a little bit above that. But I think over time, you guys will get within that range pretty quickly.

Okay. What's the opportunity? Where we're at... Go ahead. I'm sorry. I think where we're at is we still owe $412,000 on this house that we're not necessarily wanting to... Like, our kids are getting older. They're getting into their teams.

And we're kind of thinking about, like, the next five to 10 years. Do we want to put another $400,000 into this house that we don't need this much space, you know, either? So it's like... That's good to watch the debt out and start over. Lauren, that's the question. Yep. Like, if you don't love this house... house and you don't want to live there and you all want to downsize, but that's awesome.

My gut tells me. We love the house. It's just a lot of house for no more kids in a few years. Part of me thinks that the grind is what y'all need. Okay. That just getting up every day and figuring out, hey, can he take, can he go work in somebody else's shop on Saturdays? And can he, and all this is hard because y'all have kids entering in those.

ages when you got a 15-year-old, you start counting the days, right? Like we got three years and then he's gone, right? And so I get all of that. If you told me, you know what, dude, we're going to sell this house anyway when one of our kids leaves and we're going to just going to be four of us, then yeah, sure, put on the market and sell it, especially if that wipes out all of your debts and whatever. I think you're being pretty optimistic about the solar loan getting absorbed, but maybe not, maybe not.

Well, we assumed it. That's how we got it. Okay, okay. bought the house and it's kind of a thing in our area. Okay. Yeah. But I'm not worried about that. I'm more worried about when I spoke to a realtor this morning.

She said, we're probably not going to get close to what we would need to in order to cover realtor fees and closing costs because it's apparently a buyer's market right now. So our, our profit would, we've only been here for two years in this house. Oh, so you don't have equity in it. Yeah. Not much. Okay. And then for sure stay.

She said we could probably sell it for 460 to 470 and we owe 412. So that would pretty much, you know. Okay. So Lauren, that would be the trade-off. So listen, if you guys decided to do that now, you wouldn't get, would you make a ton, what would you make on, because you said you could barely cover all the fees, the realtor fees and everything. So you really wouldn't make a ton to pay off the present debt.

It would be more of a future of saying, oh, we only have to pay off a 300, thousand dollar mortgage versus a 450 and you guys feel like you can swallow that easier right stomach that easier um so what i would what i would suggest though is i think that's a that's a long-term problem that you're seeing and feeling that actually may be relieved once you're debt free from consumer debt yeah and you're going to have to turn around and get rent a house for 2500 for five people minimum right probably three thousand dollars so it would save us a little bit it would save you a little bit But I don't think that's the big rock here. The big rock.

I mean, if you told me you were going to be able to save $3,000 a month or you had $100,000 in equity, that would make sense. But this isn't moving your position anywhere. It's, in fact, it's making your life more complicated. Yeah, because you guys have about $6,000 left after you pay the mortgage. Where is all that going? We just reached, like I said, we just started the every dollar out. We were eating our money as they were paying. There you go.

Yeah. There you go. Yeah. And we've gotten better on it. Yeah. So what I would say is what's crazy about when you look all this out, and I did a rough map real quick of a calendar for you all. But I'm like, if you could find $3,000 a month,

that's finding in every dollar the expenses, which actually probably 2,000 of it could be sitting in there that you don't know about when you just actually shore everything up and say we're not spending anything. And then you guys go make some extra cash on the side. And in that example, it would just be an extra $1,000 of you working a little bit more or him working, you know, a Saturday or two a month. month, you guys could have your $3,000 debt knocked out, your credit card debt knocked out,

and his student loan debt all by August. Like if you threw a $3,000 at this stuff every single month, and then you're down to the $7,500, and you can knock that out in two months, right? And then you're looking at the solar and your student loan debt, which will be, those will take longer for sure. But I'm just saying a lot of these ankle biter stuff, if you guys really, really tighten up and say, hey, we are going to spend nothing. We are going to work extra.

And we're going to put three to four grand more than what we're doing today on this debt. You know, two, two and a half years, you guys are out. You know something we do in my house? I actually, part of my kids, I don't use the word allowance, but part of the things we pay them for is each kid does one meal a week. And so it's tough if you're working nail tech all day, you're exhausted, your husband's underneath machines all day. You've got three kids. Have each one of them be responsible for a meal, pay them each ten bucks a week for cooking or whatever.

They get to earn a tiny little bit of money, but you all save a trillion dollars by not eating out all the time. Yeah, we've done a lot better this month, but yeah, it's still pretty significant. We need to cut it out completely. It's just kind of we're trying to ease into it. Don't ease into it. Cannonball. Cannonball, baby. For sure, yeah.

And you know what, Lauren, I would just, I would grind it out. Because if you guys had $300,000 of equity and you were like, we want to downsize or something, you know, you could make it make sense. But right now it doesn't because you don't have the equity, which you guys are barely going to even just break even on a problem. Again, that is so far in the future. I would fix this stuff in two, two and a half years. And then you guys look up five years owning the home.

If there's some equity and you still want to downsize, then I would make that move. Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits. You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes. Yeah, and that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential, because it protects your family if the worst happens. Yeah, that's right.

You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work. So it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great.

Take it. If it's discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Zander can help you find the right plan. Whether you're single or married, it's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money still showing up. And that's why Zander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price, no pressure, no upselling. I've trusted Jeff Zander and Zander insurance for over 25 years, and so is my family.

So don't wait. It's fast. It's easy. all the difference. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-42-82. Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family. All right. Next up is Andrew in Salt Lake City. Hi, Andrew. Welcome to the show. Hi. Thank you guys for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help? So I'm 22 years old and I make $120,000 a year and I have been since August, but I've been in my career for about two and a half years now. And I kind of have a car question.

So I currently drive, or I used to drive an older Toyota Tacoma. Now I had that, and then I had a 24 Corolla hybrid. So it's kind of like my commuter. I drive about 25 to 30,000 miles a year. But I ended up selling my truck because it ended up getting into an accident. I sold it for 500 bucks more than I bought it for. And I was kind of wondering, you know, if I could be able to get into maybe another truck or a forerunner type vehicle,

just because I got three dogs. I like to go camping, fishing a lot. That's, like, my main hobby. I have about $25,000 in savings and $25,000 in investments, 401K, Roth IRA. Yeah, I'm kind of curious what I would be able to do. And so what are you currently driving right now?

A Corolla hybrid. Okay. bro that car is gonna just as is on the side my wife got a corolla right before we got married and i drove it forever and i just said as soon as this thing dies i'll get myself something else i finally gave up that car will never die you'll have that carola till the end of time forever i know and that's why i just like i don't want it and i drive yeah i drive for i drive a lot for work so i get paid about 75 cents a mile nice yes but it's It's about $19,000 on the note, which I haven't paid a dime towards.

Oh, you owe $19,000 on the Corolla? Yes, I do. Oh, okay. If I owned it out right, I think it would be a different story, but... I would pay that off before I bought anything else. And I know that's like, dude, I'm an outdoorsman. I know that's like a kick in the teeth, but running... Which is your...

You're one getting laid off, or you're one, they're going to reduce the mileage, or you're one, your current situation is based on somebody else's decision. And we wouldn't have jobs if people didn't, weren't faced with that every single day. Yeah. How much, how much is it worth? My trade in value is about 26,000 right now. Oh, it's worth 26,000. Well, if you could figure out a way to finagle selling it and putting a little bit of money of your 25,000, you got to pay it off. And have a little bit to put towards something and get a used paid off car or truck. I would consider that if you wanted to do that. But the thing is, you're technically on baby step two, right?

So when you're working the Ramsey plan. And if you paid off the car, you'd have $6,000 and a $25,000 paid off car, technically, right? Because what you said it was worth, you get $25 for? Is that what you said? Yeah. Yeah. So if that's the case, you got $6,000 in savings and a $25,000 car. If you wanted to trade the $25,000 car for a $25,000 truck, you could do that, right?

Like if you wanted to get something that you wanted, I'd be okay with that. And then you got to beef up that $6,000 emergency fund to probably a three-month emergency fund for maybe step three and then go on for investing all of it. But no, you don't need a brand-new truck. And I don't think you need anything worth. more than the car you're currently driving once it's paid off? I agree. I guess the question after that would be for my mileage per year, being like a high mileage driver and essentially being forced to for work,

how do you think that factors into like the, you know, how people talk about the affordability of vehicles and kind of how I'm essentially bottlenecked into a certain type of vehicle because of your work. They don't pay for fuel. Yeah, well, that's going to have to be a decision that you make. I don't know, Andrew, do you want to pay for the truck mileage, you know, and the gas for a truck? Yeah.

That would be your decision. Can you do that in your monthly budget? Is that worth it for you? Well, 75 cents a mile should cover that, right? Yeah, it covers it. I mean, that's what that money's for. Yeah, I'm profiting about, I would say, $35 a gallon of gas. Are you trying to figure out how to keep the Corolla?

and get a truck? That's what I wanted to do originally. That's the setup I had before. I wouldn't do that until you... Yeah, I wouldn't do that until you paid off the Carolla. I wouldn't do it until you paid off the Carolla and... And paid cash for a truck. And paid cash for a truck.

Yeah. Yeah. And by the way, dude, I... Until last year, my daily driver to work was an 06-Tundra that got like one and a half miles a gallon. But it was awesome. And it's, again, we'll go to the... You're a Toyota guy like me.

go till the end of time, right? And so I wouldn't use this as an opportunity to upgrade cars and get a newer Tacoma or get a newer forward. Like, if you're going to buy a camping car, I would buy a camping car, right? But even then I wouldn't do it until after I'd paid off that carola. I think you say you're 22 or 23. Is that right? Yep. Okay. I'm trying to picture myself at 22 or 23 making 120 grand, which I wasn't even anywhere near that world. I can't imagine that you don't think feel like you're rich and you are for a 22 year old. You'd be surprised. I really don't. Okay. Well, if you're getting 75 cents a mile and you're driving and you're making $120,000, you're doing insanely well for 22 years old. I want you to listen to two people like years after 22. You're literally one email away from your boss saying, hey, we're going, we can't afford it because of conflict.

in the Middle East, so we're going to go under 25 cents a mile. Or we're cutting jobs. Or whatever. And, man, you're just so exposed right now, even though it doesn't feel like it. Yep. So, Andrew, we would pay off your corolla today because you have the money for it. And then beyond that, if you want to trade the corolla for something else, you can do that. Or if you want to save up on the side to get a truck or a camping thing and you want to,

you can just pay cash and buy used. And this sounds cheesy, man. but if you look at your actual life, I remember one time we, when my wife and I moved from Houston and I didn't want to move because I was like, man, we go to Astros games, we go to concerts and all this. And she said, all right, how many baseball games do we go to last year? And I was like, I was like, okay, two.

And she said, how many trips when we were living across the state did we go back to Houston to see games, too, right? And so it was like, if you look at your life and you actually go fishing once a month, go rent a truck. Go rent one and drop it off. And it will be a 150 or 200 bucks and call it good, turn the keys back in and keep your life, keep your cash to yourself. Yeah, or God forbid, just take the corolla. Take the corolla, pile the dogs in. I mean, honestly, put your tent to the truck and call it, man. Yeah. Enjoy your life. Absolutely. I know.

When you put so much, so much of your money and especially you starting off, Andrew, like you got 25,000 in retirement, which is great, $25,000. You're doing it. You're doing some great. great stuff. But when you start to shift that focus to more consumer-based, who I want this, especially depreciating asset things. Especially a car, right, that you're like, okay, I'm going to just add on, add on. You're just, just watch the habits that you're starting to build at 22 is what I would say. That'd be my word of caution. Instead of kind of kind of kind of just figuring it out and just getting what you need to kind of like take, you know, have for your life and be like, yes, I need this car. Not so much great for work, but great for my leisure activities or whatever.

that's fine. But yeah, buying the two cars right now, I don't know. It just feels excessive. Here's my promise. Forty-two-year-old you will wish when you're married, you got some kids, 42-year-old you will wish you had a whole bunch of money in the bank, not two cars when you're 22. And just think about 42-year-old you. You'll be able to go on some wicked awesome camping trips when you got cash. Yep, for sure. And you're almost there, Andrew again. hear us say, like, you're on the right track. You're dominating. But again, pay off that car today. You have the money. Do not be paying a car loan with interest on a depreciating asset for another month. Don't do it. So just pay it off. You'll have the six grand. And then actually, when you

start working with cashy and Drew, it kind of changes your mindset. It makes you think twice about something, right? When you have debt and you're like, okay, I can afford that payment here or this thing over here because it's just these small payments month to month that doesn't feel like a big deal. but when you actually start living within your means and spending your own money, it actually changes the game. And actually may change your mind once you have it paid off and you're like, man, I don't know if I want to spend or save up for another car. I kind of want to save up and start investing or doing something else with this money.

If you run a business, you already know this. Bad information leads to bad decisions. And right now, AI is everywhere. But AI is only as good as the data behind it. The best AI is built on the best data. data. That's why I recommend NetSuite. NetSuite is the number one AI cloud ERP and more than 43,000 businesses run on it, including us here at Ramsey Solutions. Their AI isn't bolted on, it's built in, and it connects everything that runs your business, accounting, inventory,

customer data, all in one place. Because when your numbers are connected, AI actually works like it's supposed to. NetSuite's AI helps flag cash flow problems, spot inventory issues, close your books faster, and cut down on manual reporting. If your revenue is at least seven figures, go to netsuite.com slash Ramsey for a free product tour. That's netsuite.com slash Ramsey. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. I am Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with Dr. John Deloney. So give us a call at Triple. 8-8-25-5-2-2-2-5. All right, let's go to Minneapolis. I'll pronounce it correctly this hour. And we have Monica on the line. Hi, Monica. Welcome to the show.

Hi, I'm a huge fan. Oh, thank you. Thanks for calling in. How can you help? We're a huge fan of yours, Monica. So what's up? So I have a question. We're just kind of having a debate my husband and I about how much I should be spending a month. and I want to be within budget, but I'm kind of confused on what's acceptable and what's not. Less than your budget. Tadda. Right.

There you go. Solved. Okay. Okay, so I'm just messing with you. What's your confusion? Me and Rachel love solving marital disputes, so we're going to solve this one. We love spenders like you, Monica. We're glad you called.

Well, I used to not be a funder because I had no money. Good. And then we had children, and they need all the things. Oh, are you one of those moms that likes your kids to have shoes and stuff? Yeah. Boo. Boo. Yeah, I just feel like the kids' expenses just pop up.

You know, our oldest. She's rough on her tennis shoes. And the next thing you know, like, she needs a new pair of shoes. Totally, totally. So what's your husband upset about? I do spend too much. But that's what I asked. I said, well, do you want me to stop going?

to the personal trainer, which we spend too much money on, but it is really beneficial. She's more of like a physical therapist than to help my back get a lot better. Okay. So, no, not that. He's like, you don't, you're not into, like, brand names and all that. So I'm not worried about what you spend on clothes and not worried about the hair salon. You can always go there.

And I just like, so what, then? It's almost like he just has this random feeling. There's no, like, actual hard data. Well, I am spending too much. so. Why do you say that? Our house is paid off. Our cars are paid off.

I don't know how much insurance costs and things like that. Because I'm kind of a child when it comes to like that end of who's in charge with our relationship. But I'm spending $12,000 a month. And I know $2,000 is on groceries, $150 is on the gym, $480s a person trainer, $200 a month on here. And then I don't have a tally on all the things. There's a lot left.

Yeah. Where's the other $10,000? Right. I know. I'm racking my brain. And I think it's, I mean, I garden. So we buy a lot of stuff for the garden. And when I say garden, it's, yes, some flowers, but it's also a lot of vegetables and

stuff. Yeah, but we do that too. And my wife collects seeds and, like, I don't know how big your gardens are. How much you guys make a year? almost 400 and you're completely debt-free mm-hmm my my big concern here is that you don't know

where $10,000 a month is going because y'all are like I'm going to say this nicely but y'all are wealthy y'all are doing really well I'm not offended about anything you say I know I know I know I know but like I know you're a nice person y'all y'all are doing really well my concern is it's, I'm in your husband's camp here that I want my wife to spend what she wants to spend. I want her to feel good.

I want her to do all those things that make her who she is. And then there's 10,000 more dollars a month that are unaccounted for. And I'm troubled here that you don't even have a ballpark. You don't seem to have any idea where that money's going. I'm that mom that like every holiday has to be super special but I know that I decorate for all of it. We have a trail in our backyard that I decorate for Halloween and then we decorate it for Christmas and decorate for Easter and their birthdays. So you're dropping like two grand on something like that and not really thinking much about it? Probably.

Like it'll be that kind of stuff that you're doing. Okay. Okay. So you're spending, you said 12 grand. You guys, what hits your account every month? Probably 30? I don't know. Okay.

Okay, so here. Because it's inconsistent. I don't want to get into detail, but it's a job. Okay, that's fine. Okay. Do you guys, are you guys intentional with how much you're giving and saving every month? You'll have goals? He is super good with that stuff.

He is, okay. There's investments and things. He showed me paperwork, and I think I have dyslexia with numbers. Okay, so I'm in line. You don't. You don't. Okay. I'm going to have a hot.

take here, okay? Because of how much you make, considering everything is paid off, okay? You all have not, you have, you're, you're fine. If you're investing, I'm going to pretend, Monica, that you guys are investing in retirement, you have your future is being taking care of, the kids, college is being taken care of, you're giving. I'm going to just assume you're being very responsible people. You're at a high bar, okay? And then you have, you know, $25, $30,000 left a month. Okay. Hot take. If ever, you're, you're at a high bar. You're at a high bar. You're not. You have a fun started. And then you have, everything else is taken care of. The number doesn't like super throw me off.

It's not like you guys can't afford it. Here's what's throwing me off. Two things, Monica. Number one, you personally don't know where this money's going. There's no line item for Easter. And God forbid, Monica puts, for some people, they're going to think you are insane that you're going to put $1,500 for your Easter trail. But that's where you're choosing to spend it.

And you have it. Monica's on and stick up for you. 100%. But even that you said Christmas, Easter and Halloween, if you spent $2,000 a month decorating the trail behind your house, that's $6,000. You spend double that every month. Okay. So that's what I'm saying, though, is like you, at least if I knew, you knew where this money's

going and you had a self-check of like, okay, that feels right for me. And X, Y, Z, everyone values different things. Everyone throws their one-year-old a birthday party, looks like a wedding reception. I don't get why, but people do it, and it's fine. If you have the money, I'm not mad at you. It's not a moral thing. So this is where, so I want to fight for you in the sense of like, you guys have done so well, okay? And you are allowed to spend some money.

But the problem is, back, I'm rambling. One is you don't know where the money's going, Monica. Big problem. If you can map out exactly what's going on, then we can actually have an adult conversation. And then number two, you don't know what's going on with any of your money. Like you've said, you've deferred to your husband three or four different times on this call, and that's a problem. That's a problem.

I think your husband's statement, you're spinning too much, is if I got to the thing beneath the thing of that statement, it is you're immature in this relationship. And I'm having to do all this by myself. Yeah. You're more like the child. And he's having the parent that's having to care of everything. He doesn't want to be your dad. He wants to be your husband. Yes.

And that means you. You have to be a partner in this. You come to him tonight and say, I've acted like a child. And I'm sorry. I want to, I don't have dyslexia with numbers. It's not a thing. I don't know how all the investments work and whatever, but I do know how addition and subtraction works. I want to know how much we make. I want to go through our statements over the last three months and go line by line. I want to find out where this money's going.

And I promise that if we make a budget, I'll stick to it. Okay. And Monica, and it's going to be a good exercise for you because part of handling money, if the numbers work, like, right, that's our first big checkmark. I feel like it's like when we look at the data, do the numbers work. And yes, You're not going into debt for the stuff, like the numbers work. But there's also a spiritual component to money that you're not being, you're not being a great manager of your money. You're sloppy with it, right? So, again, I'm not mad that you're spending money, but you're spending it on impulse and what feels good and what I need to do in the moment. And with no accountability.

And that's not a good character building moment. You need some discipline in it. And your husband needs a partner. Yes, yes. So all those things combined. Monica, you guys make it to the end of this and say, yes, we're still going to spend $50. $1,500 on the trail, and that's what you're deciding to spend. But at least you're doing it as an adult with a rational thought behind it as a good manager.

At Ramsey, we don't partner with companies chasing trends or pushing gimmicks. Trust is earned. And that's why we send people to Fair Wins Credit Union. See, a lot of banks rely on teaser rates, marketing hype, and fine print. But that's not how Fair Wins operates. They've been serving members for 75 years, and you don't last that. long by cutting corners, you last by serving people well. There's a reason their name is on the studio wall. They've built products that help you manage money intentionally, not pull you into debt.

If you're looking for a practical way to organize your money the Ramsey way, check out the Fair Winds Smart Bundle. It pairs a high-yield savings account for your emergency fund with a checking account that doesn't drain your balance with fee after fee after fee after fee. Open your Fairwinds smart bundle today at fairwins.org slash Ramsey and get the Ramsey be weird debit card. That's fairwins.org slash Ramsey. Insured by the NCUA. Up next we have Bruce in Philadelphia.

Hi, Bruce. Welcome to the show. Thank you for taking by Cole. How are you? Yes, we're doing great. How can we help today? Well, I have a question. I'll give you a little background. I'm 72. I'm retired. I have roughly about 1.3 million. And I also have a retirement income of about 150 before taxes. And I'm looking to do some of, well, I've been investing mostly in CDs. And I don't know if I should continue just rolling over those CDs or doing either something. A little more aggressive.

Yeah, for sure. So is the 1.3 in CDs? No, the 1.3 is some of it is in IRAs and the rest of it. Yeah, it spread out. Yeah, spread some of it, spread out of the CDs. Oh, okay. Some of the 1.3. How much of the 1.3 is in CDs?

About 500,000. Oh, wow. Okay. And the 150 that you're living off of is that coming out of? Is that coming out of the 1.3? Some of it is. Most of it's coming from retirement, pension, and social security. Oh, okay.

Great. Awesome. Well, yes. Short answer is yes, Bruce. I would move for sure that 500, yes, into the market, yeah, of investing it. I mean, it would be you can look into different types of mutual funds. You can look at index funds. But with the market, kind of the rule of 72, just the quick math, is investing it.

usually you double your money in seven years. So in seven years, you would have a million. Seven years later, you'd have two million. Where CDs you're making like maybe three percent? Yeah, three point seven. Yeah. I mean, you could move it all into a high-yield savings account and make more than that. If you move half a million dollars, somebody would give you three and a half or four percent on that money.

What are you at right now? Two and three quarters? Can you repeat that? I'm sorry. What interest are you generating on those CDs? Some of them at four, something I think. Yeah, a couple of them at five. Well, so, yeah, so if you think about it, the market, I mean, it's, I mean, again, depending on your, it's kind of so volatile, I feel like this calendar year.

But overall, you're going to, on average, safe is 10%, is 10%. So, and that's just safe, right? Some years, I mean, the past, what, two years, it was like at 23%? I mean, it was crazy what you could do. And especially since you don't need the money, right? Because you do want to kind of let it right out in case you put the money in. And if you needed it in two months, you know, it takes them out. You know, that wouldn't feel great if it was dropping a little bit.

But letting it all kind of just, you know, have some time to settle into the market and let the market settle, right? It's ups and downs. I would, for sure, Bruce, yes, I would put that into the market instead of CDs without a doubt. Okay. Or to put it in a different way, neither Rachel nor I put our money in have $1 in a CD. So it's not like us just telling you something hypothetical. And I don't think we've ever once told anyone to put money in CDs either, Bruce. So yeah, it is from the track record of what the market's doing, it is safe.

And I understand even at your age of being cautious with it, right? And saying like, okay, where are we at? But honestly, 72 still is pretty young. I'm like, if you're in good health, you could have 20 years. Yeah, I mean, seriously. So, no, I would definitely put it in the market, not only because it's the best investment, but also you don't need the money. The income that you're getting is from pensions and Social Security. You're not even using most of it.

So if there is a little bit of dip and you don't need to take out as much, it's not going to hurt that bad. So it's a great question. And Bruce, well done. Yeah, excellent, brother. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. All right, let's go to Tibby in Jacksonville. Hi, welcome to the show.

Hi, how are you guys today? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help? So we have kind of an interesting situation. We have about $25,000 in savings. We, the only debt that we have is a travel trailer that we're actively paying off. We just paid off my husband's student loans. Other than that, we don't have any other debt aside from our house.

and through a series of unfortunate events, I just discovered that we actually have mold growing on the bottom side of our couch. Oh. Ew, throw it away. Well, my question is, do we dip into the emergency fund for that? Is that something that's worthy of an emergency fund? Pull some chairs around. Pull some chairs around.

You'll be fine. I know. We have a 10 month old, though. That makes it even, your 10 month old, you're going to get a new couch. Your 10 month old is going to shotgun out of both ends on that new couch. And spill milk on it, which is going to cause more mold. You don't want anything nice right now. No. No. I mean, buy a couch.

Get rid of a couch. I wouldn't. You for a real would not buy a couch. Well, listen, you have to understand that it was when my first book went. number one that my wife asked, hey, we have a bed frame that you bought off Craigslist for $50 and spray painted. Can we get a real bed? So I'm probably not the best furniture guy in the world to ask, but I would if it was my house, pull some couches, I mean, pull some chairs, some shenanigans, sit on the floor with your kid or whatever. And by the way, not having a couch in the living room,

well, you'll have more action with your kid on the floor. You'll actually go to bed on time and not rot in front of the TV. It could change your life. in a bunch of positive ways. Okay, look. But that's not why you're calling me, I know. All right. Rooms to go. Sofas from $3.99.

I'd be okay if you spend $400 on a rooms to go sofa. I'll go with Rachel if you have to have a couch. And you can't, you cannot take it out of your emergency fund. You got to take it out of your restaurant budget or something else. You got to cash flow to the couch. Yeah, that was my other thing. Cash with the couch.

Yep. You have a 10-month-old. Don't buy nice stuff. Please get a gross. Like, don't get a, I say, a gross. one. I mean, it can be new. It doesn't have to be old and used and gross. A new couch. But cash flow it out of our monthly income. Yes. And a cheap couch. A cheap couch. That's how I was saying to say. Cheap.

Okay. We wouldn't go expensive. We're a military family. Things get broken with every move. Yes. We're pretty basic when it comes to our furniture. If you have to get a couch, get one that you'll leave when you move. Just leave it. We can do that. Yeah. Okay. Well, and Timby, you didn't call about this, but you guys have $25,000 in savings.

Is that what you said? Yeah, we have a $25,000 emergency fund, all total, like, investments between my IRA mutual fund. How much is on the camper? How much is left on the trailer? 30. Pay it off today. Pay it off.

She can't. They have 25,000. They're close. I know. Yeah, go ahead and give me. The only reason we have that is because of the nature of my husband's job in the Air Force. It's rather dangerous. So it makes me feel much more secure to have that in the event of the knock at the door. Yeah, I get that.

Does he have life insurance? Do you guys have life insurance? We have it through the military right before he was leaving on deployment. That's the other thing he's currently deployed. So I'm trying to figure all of this out. But right before he left for deployment is when we were going to start going through Xander and getting quotes and all of that stuff. We just pre-deployment didn't have time to get that added on there. I want you guys to do that ASAP.

And on you too, Tibby, if something happened to you. and you guys need 10 to 12 times your annual income. Sometimes with people that have insurance through their companies or through the military, it's not enough. And so get term life. Check out our friends at Zander Insurance because they're an insurance broker that actually shop all different companies to get you the lowest rate. So you guys, yeah, be looking at that for real, though, because I understand the safety net of wanting that money that makes total sense. But also, if you knew that other aspects were being taken care of financially, you would be able to use cash today. to help you guys in your present situation get along further, faster to wealth building,

which would be paying off this debt. So you guys consider that. Look at the life insurance. And if there's enough, I would. I would get rid of this. You're paying payments on something in interest that's going down in value. So getting rid of that debt is going to be huge for you guys. Let me tell you something I see all the time.

People are working hard, trying to get control of their money, and then their phone bill shows up higher than experience. Again. And they don't even know why. That's why I want you to switch to Boost Mobile. Here's the truth. Your phone bill should fit your budget, not the other way around. Your wireless company is counting on you just paying it without asking questions. With Boost Mobile, you can unlock big savings compared to the so-called big guys. Bring your phone, keep your number, and pay just 25 bucks a month forever on their unlimited plan. No contracts, no confusing fees, and that $25 price is locked in. forever. And if you're skeptical, that's fine. Boost Mobile backs it up with a 30-day money-back guarantee, meaning you can try it without feeling trapped. So stop overpaying for something you use every day. Go to boostmobile.com slash Ramsey to make the switch today. That's boostmobile.com slash Ramsey. $25 forever requires customers to remain active on Boost Mobile Unlimited Plan. We wish we could get to every call here on the Ramsey show, but we can't. So if you have a money question,

we have an answer for your situation. So you can go to our website and use Ask Ramsey. So Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool, and it's built and trained on proven money principles that we've been talking about. I mean, this whole system that they've built has, I mean, every answer in there is from the past couple years of shows, all of our books, articles.

I mean, anything and everything Ramsey has put out content-wise is in there. And it's wild how personalized it can get because it will remember you in your situation, but you can put in specific numbers, all of it, and it will spit out an answer like you have called the Ramsey Show. So get your question answered today at ramsysolutions.com at the Ask Ramsey tool.

So you make sure to check it out. Or if you are listening on podcasts or YouTube, we'll put a link below. All right, let's head to Bill in Seattle. Hi, Bill. Welcome to the show. Hi. Hello. How are you today?

I'm doing good. How are you guys? We are doing great. How can we help? So my question to you guys is whether I should continue moving forward with getting engaged with my girlfriend, you know, even though I see her as kind of being financially irresponsible. Run, Bill. Run! No. I'm just playing. I'm playing. Tell us more. What does financially irresponsible mean? It means that she still kind of nickels and dimes us to death.

So when it comes to those small expenses like eating out and getting a cup of coffee, I think there's very little consideration on her part in terms of how those expenses can accumulate over time. And I guess the other big thing, too, is not a, not a, steady source of income from her hand so that when we have big expenses like our, like our animals at appointments, you know, it usually ends up me sharing the financial burden more so. Are you all living together? Yes.

So we are, yeah, I'm a, that's what this is kind of all about is I'm a 30-year-old living in my girlfriend's parents' basement. Oh, there's that. Oh, wow. lead with lead with that next time brother all right so how much of this it's just listen it's just two dudes rachel happens to be here and like a couple of million people just listen in okay how much of this is you've got to see up close i don't know if this is a person i want to spend the rest of my life with because here's the thing i skipped a final exam to run across

campus because I knew that's a place that my girlfriend at the time, who's not my wife, would be walking across campus at a certain time. Right? So if it was really that she spent too much on cups of coffee and didn't work very often, and you were head over heels, this was your person, you'd be calling us in 10 years saying she won't get a job and she spent you all into the poor house. What else is going on that's making you start to question this thing? Well, we we've been together for such a long time and I think we've had our ups and downs, but eventually, I feel like recently in my life, I've gone through a stage of maturity, and that certainly means financial maturity. And I think that is what I have yet to see from her, especially in recent times.

and I know if I want to take that next step with her, that is something that we certainly have to agree. How old is she? She is 28. Okay. So it's more of a maturity over on who she is, but what you're seeing and what's coming out is the money side too. Yes.

And here's, oh, man, this is a double-edged sword, all right, brother? And Rachel, knock me off my pedal still like you're so good at doing, Rachel. Would love to, John. My concern here is a double-edged sword. one, you have somebody who isn't working, seems to be content living at home with her parents, whatever, and never has any money and continues to rack up expenses. There's that. My honestly, my bigger concern right now is you are starting to feel like you are better than her. And that is, man, that is the, you're tilling the soil to plant the seeds for contempt. And contempt is one of the

Dotman's four horsemen that will just destroy your relationship. It's you sitting up in the lifeguard tower of a local pool looking down on instead of sitting with her and saying, hey, what's our plan to get out of your parents' basement? Right? What's your financial future? What job are you going to have? What kind of future do we want to build together? And if she won't participate in that, yeah, you've got bigger issues. Yeah. Have you all had conversations, Bill, about it? We recently, three weeks ago, tried to have a completely clean slate where we, you know, push everything behind us in the past and we just look forward and we don't bring up anything that happened in the past. And it's, it seems like I'm getting that sense of financial urgency

from her, but then it, then there's some still those moments where, again, she, you know, has a small unnecessary expense or just yesterday, if I may say, she had spent approximately $60 to get us concert tickets. And it's still those things that occur that prevent me from, you know, giving her my full trust, financially speaking. Well, it's tough because y'all aren't married. And so I wouldn't tell you to make a budget together because y'all are just boyfriend and girlfriend living in her parents' basement, right?

Like, if y'all were married, if y'all were engaged and y'all were starting to think through, we're going to make a budget together and we're going to high-five each other and stick to this budget that we've made. And then she was like, look out, surprise, concert tickets. Then, yeah, you'd have- You broken something that you've said together, yes. But if y'all are just dating, and you've been dating a long time and you're just sitting in your in-law, I mean, in your girlfriend's parents' basement saying like, hey, we need to

get our stuff together. And she's like, yeah, yeah. I mean. You've created no situation. where she has to. Yeah. And I hear what you're saying, Bill. I do hear, I wish she had this self, you know, motivation to.

Yeah. Can she keep a job? Like, what's the job situation? So I have two jobs. I work full-time at a target and part-time as a math tutor at Mathnasium. And I work approximately 40 to 55 hours a week. And I'd say it brings me in approximately 3,500 to 4,000 a month. And what does she do?

So she just has side gigs. She does a lot of pet sitting. It's been picking up a little bit because it's springtime and summertime and people want to travel. The other thing, I guess, too, is she does have her mom who owns a lice removal service company, and she has lots of experience with doing that. And that's actually a very nice job because they get a lot. But she will work it, though. Well, in this, in...

That's, yes. Okay, okay, yes. So I can feel... Okay, Bill, but you're in the same... You're a little bit... I'm going to group you all in the same situation. You're both living at her parents' house. I hear you trying.

He's turned a corner. And he's like, I want to do something with my life, create financial stability, and she's pet sitting. But again, nothing's wrong with pet sitting, but that's for a full-time career. If she was doing it 60 hours a week... Not for a 28-year-old. Not for a 28-year-old.

Right? And it could be a great side gig, but like that you, I do see the lack of initiation on her side. Yes. And that is very concerning. Yes, that's concerning. So I see that. It's concerning that her mom still speaks into y'all's life. Right. So here's the thing. The only thing you can control is you. If I, if you were my son in this exact situation, I would tell you go get a one bedroom apartment today. Yes. Praise Hans. I want you to have. I want you to have. skin in the game of your life. And you're not going to, you're not going to accumulate wealth as much as you want, whatever. And then say, we're not breaking up, but I need to get out of underneath your mom and dad as my parents.

And I need to start creating a life as me as a 30-year-old man. Yes. And then you can see with clear eyes, is she want to join your team till death do you part? Or she want to live under her mommy's roof, pet sitting a few months out of the year, right? That's what I was going to say, John. Dude, you wrapped it up well. Seriously. It's going to expose and show more of the truth, Bill.

When you are on your own and you have the blinders on for your life, does she enter it or does she exit it? And you make your budget for your money. Today's Ramsey Show. Question of the day is brought to you by Why Refi. If you've lost control of your private student loan payments, your financial progress has stalled out, but Y Refi helps borrowers explore refinancing options

with payments built around their real, life situations. So to learn more, go to y-refi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. May not be available in all states. All right. Today's question comes from Andy in Kansas. Andy writes, my wife says I'm taking the baby steps too seriously. Andy, there's no such thing. All right. Because I'm very focused on paying off our debt using the snowball method. She wants to pay off debt, but would like us to save her a vacation and build a larger emergency fund at the same time. We have the $1,000 starter emergency fund, but she wants to increase that amount, slow down a bit, and not be so intense about paying off debt. I don't

want to create tension between us, but at the same time, I really want to stay focused on becoming debt-free. How can we stay united as a couple while making progress towards our financial goals? this has to be the number one question we get that one person is like all in all in and the other's like one person's like dude take a few Xanax and relax yes yes totally um yeah and I think for me it's it's it's one of those gives and take give give give and take gives and takes in marriage um because there is there's naturally going to be the free spirit the one that I do think has the capacity to handle some of maybe the money stress a little bit more. It's just whatever it is, right?

Where there's the one that's like, we got to get out of this. The urgency is so big. And maybe I wouldn't put nerd-free spirit on those specifically, but that tends to be the personality of the couples we see. But what we find overall are the couples who win financially, and I mean when like pay off their home, have a million dollars in their retirement, all of it. they are not only shooting for the same goal, but they're for each other in the process,

meaning if I see that this is so important to him, I know it's important, and I want to get there, but man, he wants to, like, go all out. Okay, for a year, like, we'll do it. I can give up a vacation for a year, and I can go in, and almost in a way of loving him well, of what he is desiring and wanting at the speed, you know, that. Vice versa to the wife, right? If she wants their debt free, she's like, yeah, she's probably going to spend more on a vacation. and he's like, okay, we have the money for it.

We're not being irresponsible, but I wouldn't. I would spend it somewhere else. But for her right now, okay, let's just do it because we can. Does that make sense? That is my exact house. If I owe somebody money, I don't sleep. I have anxiety. It drives me crazy.

My wife could have a mortgage and a car payment, and she wouldn't lose sleep over it. She didn't like it. She would sleep just fine. I have a plan and whatever. her loving me well when we were buying a house and we were able to put a big chunk down we're going to taking mortgage on a little bit of it we sat down and I said okay for this long it's going to cost me can we pay this thing like this and she said yes and when this thing's paid off we're going to take a silly vacation and I was like I would never spend that on a vacation all in right so it's

us loving each other well. Yep. But Andy, what that required, though, was that conversation that me and my wife had was not a spreadsheet conversation. It was, hey, here's what this does to me. And she's like, I love you more than any other thing I could have. Yes. I'm all in.

And life without a vacation for me, like, I don't like that. And I'm like, I love you more than any of the, like, right? So we'll do that too. This is about talking about the thing beneath the thing, which is. sitting down and saying, here's what the dead is doing to me. It's making me feel like a failure as a dad, as a husband. It scares me about our future. The economy's bananas right now. AI is going to kill us all. Like all those, say those things out loud and then come up with a plan together. I don't think you're taking the baby steps too seriously, Andy, but I do think you're taking them on

all by yourself. And that's going to divide your marriage up. And so I think sitting down and having the conversation, the thing beneath the thing. And if you're with a partner that's like, I don't care what you care about, we're having a vacation, your marriage has bigger issues. That's right. Because I promise you that's not just showing up there. It's shown up in other places too. Well, and that's it too. I'm like, and we say it all the time that so many calls we get about money issues,

they're not really money issues. It's marriage issues. You really do. It is because that's who we are as people to our core, right? Our soulful, spiritual people. Like that's what the complete side of us is. And all this other stuff of life that we've built on. top of it, money, you know, all this other stuff. It's all built on top of that. And the

problem is you only get to that layer if you're like, here's the spreadsheets and here, here's how much we can make with the percentage that we're saving here versus the market. And all that's fine. Like that's true, right? Like you can look at the math and absolutely. And some people are like, great, check it off. That's what I needed to see. But for most people, especially from the quality of a marriage perspective, it is getting to understanding what is happening with my spouse. And when you do and you have those conversations, you get to know your spouse right on a deeper way. And there's nothing greater than seeing and knowing and learning about your spouse.

By the way, you're going to be married to 15 or 20 different versions of your spouse over the course of your marriage. So you're always going to be in an act of getting to know and then celebrating the crap out of them. Yes. And celebrating your spouse sometimes is we're going to do without a vacation for two years because we're going to get this thing cleaned up. And then we're going to be able to go on whatever stupid vacations we want to go on for from now. until forever if we just make the sacrifice. But I really want to stay focused on becoming debt-free. Andy writes, tell her why.

Tell her what's going on in your spirit in the middle of your chest. Have that conversation. And also, this isn't spouses entertaining or having to puff up a spouse on some crazy thing, right? Getting out of debt, which I guess some people would say is crazy. There are things in life that are like, yeah, that's worth fighting for because that really does cause stress, right?

You can put money stuff in there, health stuff. Of course. You know, it's not like, oh gosh, I think, which I can go conspiracy. But if you're like, okay, all the cell phones are going down tomorrow. We got to like get bug out back. Right. Like it's not like not factual. These are things that are like actually factually affecting people. Correct. Does that make sense? Like you can put other elements. But money is one of those things that affects people. So you're, so I'm saying Andy, you're not being crazy or like out of this world. Like oh my gosh, she's having to like coddle something that's bizarre and weird and like, oh gosh. It's actually going to create a lot of health in you and in your marriage when money is not a factor because you guys have control over it. All right, let's hope the cell phones don't go down tomorrow.

But if they do, we have Julie in Los Angeles. I don't know what you do in Los Angeles if all the cell phones went down. But hey, Julie, how are you? I'm good. Good. How can we help you today? I have a question. First off, I am a debt snowball graduate.

My husband and I from a long time ago. But I'm now a widow and I'm 61. I'm looking to retire at 62, which is about a year away. And I want to know, I'm going to move out of this taxable state into a non-tax state. And I want to know based on what assets that I have, and how much house can afford and how should I buy it? You know, mortgage, cash, what should I do? Okay, how much will you have when you sell the house?

I don't own one right now. I'm going to retire and then I'm going to move. I want to know how much house I can afford to buy. Okay. How much money do you have saved in retirement? I have about $3 million in investments. Okay. And another million probably in 401K.

Okay. Perfect. Do you know how much just living expenses for you is a month, how much you would probably spend to live comfortably for you? Right now, right now, working and everything and relatively frugal, like son of a graduate from the debt snowball school. Yeah, you've done it. That's great. And so what I would do, Julie, honestly, is I would sit down with a smartvestor pro. If you go to Ramsey Solutions.com, you can find one in your area because I would

want you to map out and see, okay, if I had to live off of the $4 million, how much less could I live off of in order to own a home right out, right? So if you took half a million and bought something with that, you know, you'd have 3.5 million left. How much per year, which would you need to see growth for you to live off of, which I think would be plenty? Plenty. Then you can up it and say, what if I bought a million dollar? Do I need a million dollars? So you're going to actually be able to run some numbers out in calculations to see actually the money that you have to withdraw to live off of, how much would you need? And if you want to leave any

to the next generation as well. So I would get with a smart vester pro and run those numbers, but I would assume anywhere from a 400 to a 500,000, you're going to be great. And you can pay cash for it, which is awesome, Julie. Well done.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Dr. John Deloney. And we're taking your calls. The lines are open at AAA-8-25. 55225. All right, we're going to go to John in Houston, Texas. H-town! What's up, John?

Hey, what's going on, y'all? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help today? So I am wanting for me and my wife's household income to equal $100,000 a year by the end of 27. I'm currently halfway there and make $51,000, but she refuses to work. And when she does work and then quits, blames it on being bipolar and having anxiety. I'm wondering what I should do to push her to start working and keeping her job. Does she have diagnosed bipolar disorder? She does.

Okay. Is she manage it well? Does she take her meds? She takes her meds, but as far as managing, probably not. Hmm. What does that mean? Sorry, what would that mean? She's not managing it well, but she is. I've known some amazing, some folks with bipolar.

one that are amazing folks, but they know I've taken my medication every day for the rest of my life. And for folks with, especially with bipolar one, it's hard because you feel so good, it's easy to feel like, oh, I'm all good now. And you got to take your meds. But also, you have to be intentional about your exercise. You have to be intentional about your sleep. You have to be intentional about relationships, the whole thing. And that's what I mean by managing it. Got it, got it. And so she doesn't do that. Is that right? No. Okay. Is she still seeing a counselor? Yeah. We actually have a schedule for Thursday. Okay. Is this your first time to go with her? This will be my second time. Okay. I want you to lead with this question, okay? We have some household financial needs, and I see needs, I see

abilities in my wife that she doesn't see for herself. How can I love her? How can I love her? her through the transition of being scared of your own body, which having bipolar one is, as they've I've had people explain it to me, it's like you're being betrayed by your own body, right? Some things feel so amazing at them. Some things feel like the end of time. And neither of those things are right. And so how can I love her through this transition? And that's going to signal to your wife. I'm on your team and things have to change in our home. And it's going to signal to to the therapist, oh, this woman has support, not at the lecturing level, but at the soul level. I'm with her.

How can I love her well during this time as she's going to begin managing this thing? Yeah. Right. And then if she's in a positive season right now, if she's in, like, what I call not a manic state or a depressive state, but if she's doing pretty well right now, this is a great conversation to lay out. Like, how can I love you when things get pretty, when you get pretty, when you get pretty, ramped up and how can I love you and think when you get pretty ramped down and go ahead and come up with a game plan now so that when those when those things hit um hopefully the the medication and the

life management and all that level some of that out but when those things hit you already have a roadmap trying to ask somebody during a manic phase how can I love you that's a that's not helpful right you've been there right and when somebody's can't get out of bed like it's hard to be like well how can I love you today and so but getting that when you're in a good season that's amazing and it might be that the $100,000 number you have in your head you all may never get there. It might be 75 and that'll be okay.

We have to then reimagine what our life's going to look like and that's going to be okay too. Yeah, I put the $100,000 mark because we're actually $30,000 in debt. Okay. And that's hard to pay off only making $51,000, right? Right. Yeah.

Is she have her spending under control? Um No Okay That might be the front end of this conversation Which is during manic phases especially I hear that a lot That folks just get to spending

And spending and spending So when I know I'm heading into a manic phase I'm going to put my debit card In a lockbox And you own the We have a freeze on your credit report And you own the pass code

To Amazon Prime Right There's just some low level basic things that I've seen couples do that work great for those seasons. And you might have to weather a storm, right? She might come after you for that code or that password, but we're going to hold firm in those seasons. Okay. How long have you guys been married, John? We're going on three years.

Okay. Three years. So still learning how to do this well. I'm glad you guys have a good counselor. And can I say this? This doesn't get talked about very much. This is exhausting for you, too, right? It's okay for you to feel that way also. Okay? I know she's the one with the diagnosis and I know she's the one struggling inside of her own skin. Totally get that.

And you love her to the moon and back, right? And it's frustrating for you too to try to build some sort of secure life for both of you. That's hard. And so you get to be, I want to give you permission to be frustrated too, okay? John, were you aware of everything before you guys got married? Um, so actually I had a couple of, I had one debt of my own and then when we got married, we financed a car and then the rest is just, if anything were to happen, if anything happened, she would just panic and then just get a loan for $500 or $1,000. Okay. Yeah. And so that's where putting a freeze on her credit.

Mm-hmm. You don't do that for her, but you all do that together. that in those moments when she panics, there's a stopgap there, right? And we're going to put as many hurdles as possible in front of us so that we together don't make bad decisions for us. Okay. Awesome.

Is that cool? Thanks for a call, brother. Yeah, thanks, John. Thanks for loving her well while she's struggling. For sure. Yeah. And that is difficult. And I think, you know,

and even if someone is not diagnosed with something like that, there is this realization of, okay, I can only do so much on my end. We were talking about spouses and bringing them on board, right, and working as a team together. But we have found when you create stopgaps together with things like spending, when especially if you see a pattern is so helpful. It is so helpful because you don't realize the ease at which debt can just come into your life

or spending can just happen. You can have a bad. I've known people with bipolar ones. one that have one bad weekend. And I'm talking 10 or 20 years worth of digging himself out of this hole. You can go buy a car and get a $10,000 loan and they get two credit cards and burn through them all in a weekend now. Right. Right.

And what a nightmare that is to untangle. So it's knowing yourself well enough to know and being honest with yourself enough to know. I, my body gets set on fire from the inside out. I panic. I do X, Y, and Z, I need to put some hurdles in my life. Will you help me? And from your experience, not her specifically, but that situation, she could have the ability to have that rational thought and when she's in a good state.

Absolutely, yeah. Yeah. And he's got to expect she's going to come for blood when she's not doing well. And that's part of loving somebody well when they're struggling, right? Yes, with that. And that's okay. That's part of it. It's part of it.

Well, John, we're so glad you called in. I hope that's helpful. We're cheering you guys on. Call us back if you need anything. Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show.

Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to Ramsey Solutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's Ramsey Solutions.com. Up next, we have Tori in Huntsville, Alabama. Hi, Tori. Welcome to the show. Hi.

Thank you. Yes, absolutely. Thanks for calling in. How can we help? So I am currently in Baby Step number two. I currently work for a financial farm. And what I do is I deal with equity. and although I'm currently paying off my debt, there is a test more so like the certifications for equity professionals that you can take.

I mean, for me, it would significantly increase my income. Okay. But it is $2,000. So my question for you is, although I'm still paying off debt, would it be okay to, you know, spend that money to take this test and, you know, more than like, increase the income or should I just wait and try to finish off paying? Because right now, if I stick to my plan, I should be done and completely out of debt next year. Okay. Tori, what are you making now?

And if you had the certification, what would you be making? Okay, so I am currently at 68, 5, but minimum on average, about 90 with the certification. Oh, yeah. I would. I would, Tori. I would, Tori. Yes. Because it's pretty guaranteed, right?

It's not like you're getting an MBA and you hope you'll get a higher paying job somewhere. It's a pretty like one for one, right? Even if I didn't get the 90, majority of even just, even competitors with my own company are paying at the very minimum for an, like, for the actual, the certified equity professional certification. Yep. Still at 85 minimum for most companies. That's the lowest I've seen it. 100%. And are you pretty confident?

I'm confident. You can take it. That when you take it, you think you'll pass? You're going to have to take it like five times. Do you know? No, I think I'll pass. I've been actually preparing for what I've been thinking about it for the past year. That's for you, Tori.

Oh, my gosh. Heck yeah. I'm like, that's like a $20,000 increase. How many months will take you to save up to pay for this test? Honestly, I just recently picked up a second job. So I honestly can have this safe though within the next two months. You're a baller. Do it.

Do it. I also, because I just paid off my car. So then that's freed up, an extra $500 a month. So I'm confident I can have this done. Do it. Do it. And I don't know. I know like I've heard on you guys' show where like you said, like when you're paying off debt to like stop certain things.

So like I did stop part of my 401K investments. I, um, I didn't. drop that all the way down. I had it at 10%. I'm now doing 6% just so I can keep my match. Boo. Tori, for 12 months.

Pause it and throw that money at your debt. Just be done. You're so close. Yes. Just for 12 months. I know. I have $2,000 left in student loans, and then I have about $4,200

left in credit cards. But I've got a plan. You got it. It's almost done. I'll have to pay next next, like literally in the next month. The next card was a secured card, so actually I plan to close it anyway. So I can throw that at the next day.

Good. Yes, it's the snowball effect. You're doing it. You're doing it. Tori, I'm so proud of you. Girl, that's amazing. You're doing incredible. You're doing absolutely incredible.

And the research of figuring out, okay, I can get a $2,000 certification for a $20,000 raise. That's some good ROI right there, Tori. Like, yes. And everybody listening. Here's what we're not saying. You said it. Yeah.

This isn't, I'm going to pause the baby steps. I owe $100,000 from undergrad. I'm going to go ahead and take out a $200,000 loan to get an MBA, and I hope that that moves me up. Or I'm a teacher and I want to go back to school and get a master's degree, and I hope this other district hired me. This is somebody in a job who needs a credential to move up in this job. She's already crushing it in her company.

And it's just $2,000. It's $2,000. Yes. This is a no-brainer. So, Tori, you're awesome. Oh, I love it. Love it. All right, let's go to San Diego. We have Chris on the line. Hi, Chris. Welcome to the show. Hello. It's a pleasure to talk to you guys. Yes. Well, thanks for calling in. How can we help? Yeah. So my wife and I got married six months ago, and we've been living in an apartment in San Diego. And her in-law, or my in-laws, her parents are offering to build an extension onto their home so that we can move in and save money. But we would be

paying for the construction of the extension to their home. Oh, that's great. Hey, Chris, I got a good idea. Give me a million dollars. To increase my home. Yeah, to increase my home value and then I'll let you live there. Yeah. No.

I would not do this. No. No. But it's interesting, though, because financially we could do it. I know it's not interesting, though, because you'll be living in your in-law's house. Yes. And then actually for resale value, in-law's house. Law suites are actually not that great because it takes a very specific buyer to even want it.

So even for your in-laws, if your in-laws called and said we want to build on, I would be like, eh, probably wouldn't. I think they're fine. No, Chris, you guys need to go and live your lives, genuinely. Because what happens, people get trapped in these situations, and then you take out the construction loan or whatever it is and you're trying to pay it. And then something happens, and you want to move to Arizona because you got this insane job. And it's like, we can't, because we're stuck here because we promised this and this. You start to have all these strings attached and you guys can't just fly and be free. Like just, yes, and have a driveway that's just yours, not parking with your in-laws.

You know what I mean? If they said, hey, we're going to do this anyway and we will let y'all live here rent-free. For a year or two or whatever. I'd be all about that. Do that all day long. But y'all... You need to build your own equity, too, in your own place. Rachel's call-out is really important. The first, you're going to put down $350,000 on this thing.

you're going to cash flow it, and then you're going to get the job of a lifetime in Texas. And you're going to be like, wow, there's no state income tax. What do we do? And you're going to have to take this, and then that money is sunk into your in-laws house. And I just wouldn't do it. I wouldn't do it? Okay. Did we convince you?

What do you want to go, do you want to live at your in-laws? You know, I have my own thought. You do. Yes. Just hear them, Chris. What were your thoughts? You've heard ours. What's yours?

It's further. in San Diego for my job. And in terms of dollars, more dollars would be going out per month, even though it's the same amount, if that makes sense. Wait, say it again. Say that. So the amount that we're able to save right now is how much we'd be putting towards the loan. But it ties up our money. And if we're ready to move out in our own place in five years, I think it would tie us down even more.

Yes, correct. Saving the same amount and the same amount of time and having that money. is liquid. Correct. Yes. You are thinking. What's your, what's your wife saying? I guarantee you. I know what she says. We haven't had a ton of time to talk about it recently, but I think we're kind of on the same page. I've been sharing my thoughts with her, and she's like, yeah, like that totally makes sense. And then we're bouncing off her parents and kind of having a mutual discussion, but it's all very loose right now. Okay, I want to say something crazy. Don't have a mutual discussion with her parents. You and your wife

have a discussion and then you announce what your decision is. Wow. Because I don't want them negotiating with you on y'all helping increase the resale value of their home. You all make a decision and then you say, hey, thank you so, so much for the offer. We're going to keep, we want to stay

here in our apartment and we're going to build up our savings so that we can get our own place. End of conversation's over. Yeah, that makes it nice to leave you know. Now they probably have a, Oh, go ahead. Well, I was going to say their hearts may be in a great spot. They, I think in some situations like this, they genuinely think we're helping and this will be so great.

And one day we'll flip. We'll move to the in-law suite and we'll give the house to them. I mean, I'm telling you. That they can get the house and we'll downside later or something. Or no, we'll move to the in-law suite and they'll keep the house. And then we can be around the grandkids. They've got a whole idea worked out. And it's, I don't fault him for a second for coming up with this idea.

It's a great plan. And housing in San Diego's, I don't know, one bedroom apartments, $8 billion. I get it. I totally get it. And to your point, if they had built it and it was there, like we had some friends and their parents had like a small home out like by a pool and they live there for about two to three years, rent free, everything. And it was great.

And then they saved up the money. They went and put a down payment, moved into a home. It was wonderful because it was already there. It was part of the system. They had a good relationship. It was fine. And they actually created their savings goals. But Chris, if you're having to cash flow this into.

something that you can't take the equity out. That's not a smart investment. And I just think having some boundaries, your first six months of marriage, first couple years, I think it's good. Have your own location. You guys figure out life together. But thanks for the call. And yeah, congratulations on the new marriage. You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car, but it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage. To protect your biggest assets, I recommend using Ramsey trusted pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsey trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would.

Find what you need at ramsysolutions.com slash insurance. Buying or selling your home is a really big deal, and there's so much clickbait in the headlines out there and conflicting data, and it's hard to know what's really happening in the housing market. and so we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. So last month, the average 15-year fixed-rate mortgage had ticked up a bit to 5.56%, but it's still lower than 6%, which is great. And if you're financially ready, a small increase like that shouldn't be able to hold you back. So again, this idea that just because prices, interest rates go up a little, down a little, all of it,

if you are in a position to buy a home, you need to get into the market. Now the median home prices went up to $415,000 last month, which is typical for the spring markets. Now there's more homes available or more buyers are entering the market. So it is a great time to buy or sell. So to learn more about the housing market trends and to get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to ramsysolutions.com slash market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcasts or YouTube. All right, let's head to Riley in Memphis, Texas.

Hi, Riley. Welcome to the show. Hey, how are you guys? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help? Okay, so I'm going to keep this brief. Me and my husband, we've been Ramsey people since getting married and have no debt aside from our house. However, my parents have been struggling financially for quite some time. And despite this, my mom will buy things for us, and it takes a huge toll on my husband and I. It makes us feel like we're contributing to their debt.

So I was just wondering, how do I approach my mom about purchasing things from my family? when they are in debt and can't afford it. Yeah, what's she buying? So she'll buy stuff for our house. We're not, we just moved into our house and we're not in a position to buy like things like curtains or rugs or things like that. And so she'll buy stuff like that or we just had a daughter as well and so she'll buy clothes and things for her.

And you're not asking her too. She's just showing up with stuff. Yes. So here's a hard truth. You and your husband can't own her. her decisions. Yeah, okay. You can, you can sit down with her and say, mom, me and my husband really want to grind

this thing out ourselves. And I'm so grateful for you always bringing us stuff and all that kind of, like, what we really want is you just to come hang out with the new baby or come hang out with us. Um, but really, and I know this sounds ridiculous, we want to grind it out ourselves. Yeah, yeah. You can't, what I was, you can't do anything about, I guess, I guess, if she shows up with it she shows up with it right yeah yeah i guess that's what i was wondering

like if it's something i need to change my mindset about like it's not my problem kind of thing as that is that sound but it does make us feel really guilty knowing the place that they're at especially because we're doing a little bit better than they are yeah i want to set you free from this and it's not a one and done but my friend becky kennedy she's a psychologist in new york she taught me this and it it it's one of those I had a before and after moment and this is just a year or two ago okay do you think having um curtains in your house is that a violation of you and your husband's marital values no no do you think getting a gift is that a violation of your marital values no okay so guilt is actually a good thing it's a thing that our body feels when we do

something that violates our core values. What you're feeling is not guilt. You're trying to take your mom's situation and own it for her. Okay. You get what I'm saying? And that's not your cinder block to carry around all the time.

Probably underneath the thing you think is guilt, I bet it's anger. Yeah. I bet you're pissed off that you grew up in that house. You know what money stress feels like and she's now doing it to y'all. Yeah. Right?

And so it's what you're feeling I don't think is guilt. I think you're mad. I think you're frustrated. Like get your house in order to mom and dad, right? Yeah, and I think a lot of that comes from. We actually, a few months ago, we were doing really, really well financially on my parents at their worst, and we gave them a gift, a money gift in hopes that it would be kind of a wake-up call. No, you woke up, you woke a dragon, that's what you woke up.

And so I feel like it's kind of a slap on the face. So I do think that that kind of makes me and my husband a little bit angry. Did they ask for that money gift? No, it was just something that was put on our heart. Tell me about that. So at this point, this was during Christmas, and at this point, they were really struggling to put food on the table. and trying to give us a good Christmas, me and my siblings. And so we just felt really saddened by the situation.

My mom had just gotten laid off from her job. And so we felt that possibly giving a gift of money and then realizing the help that they have received would help them, I don't know, like feel more motivated to get back in the workplace to provide for their family. And it didn't work out that way. Yeah. So one time, like if somebody passes away, you bring food, right?

Like, there's some things you just show up and you just show up without asking. One time my buddy and his wife were, he was finishing school. She was, they were just stressed to the max. And then she found out she was pregnant. And so I told my wife, hey, I want to get them a house cleaner. I want a whole crew to show up at her house and take care of. the whole thing. And my wife looked at me and she's like, are you insane? And I said, what do you mean? She said, the last thing a woman who's drowning in all the stuff needs is her friends to

think, oh, she's got a dirty house. Let's clean it for her. And so what she told me was, sit down with them, they're your friends for 25 years and say, hey, how can we love y'all right now? We're in a season of blessing. And so instead of throwing a check at somebody that's struggling, there's somebody you know really well, right? If this was a person, who was struggling, they didn't have a house, somebody, that you're... Just someone bad with money and you're giving them more money. Sit down with your mom and say, hey, I know y'all going through a tough time. What do y'all need? How can we love y'all right now? And let her tell you.

And if she has too much ego or pride to say, hey, we could really use $500 for groceries. And she says, nothing, we're fine and good. Then let her be an adult and say, you're fine or good. But you thinking y'all can go in and just dump money on a problem and it's going to motivate them, that's never worked for them ever. And it's not going to work now. And y'all are the ones paying the price for it, right? And now you're resentful because they're not doing well with their money, right? The thing that was supposed to help them. And in fact, they're becoming still irresponsible.

And you're in the pathway of it all of them just like throwing their irresponsibility at you. Stuff that you're like, mom. And I don't want you walking around feeling guilty because y'all are in a season of blessing right now. Yeah. So what's the boundary, John, for an adult child, right, Riley and the parents? Take care of your mom. money really well. You and your husband be good stewards of what you got. And keep an open dialogue with your mom. That question always, how can I love you today? I ask my wife that. She asked me that,

but that's a great question for your kids. It's also a great question for your aging parents. Yeah. And if they say, well, we just need $1,000 a month from here on out, then you can say, I don't want to contribute to that. Or I'll walk you through your finances if you want to talk money, but I'm not just going to throw money at a problem over and over because then you are killing the soil for resentment, right? Yeah. And so, I agree.

Own that. Say, I want to love you. I want our relationship to say good and just throwing money at a problem. Right. So if you want to talk about how to get your money right, if you want to talk about budgeting, if you want to talk about this Ramsey stuff that me and my husband do, that has helped us get this clear, I'm in all day long.

And if you have a need, like, hey, we don't have any groceries. We'll be there for you 100 times out of 100. Yeah, we can feel that need. But, man, when you get to just. Well, when money is just thrown at a problem. anything. This could be friendships, parents to children, children to parents. I mean, all of it. When it's being thrown at a problem, but the problem itself is not being addressed, it just magnifies the dysfunction and it becomes a bigger problem of the problem, right? It rarely goes in and fixes it.

Now, if someone is in a season of cleaning up their, you know, clean up their financial mess, they're working the baby steps, they're taking an extra job, all of it. And you have, you have some money and you're like, you know what? I feel called to be like, hey, let's pay off that credit card for them. Like, we want to do that. And because we are magnifying the good that is happening, not the dysfunction. But I will say this, sometimes that sentiment, which I agree with 100%, yeah, is used to also, hey, there's a guy hungry on the side of the street.

I'm not going to give him any money. He needs to get it. Sometimes the problem to solve is that guy's hungry right now. Yes. He needs a place to stay tonight. Totally. Right. We're going to solve that.

So I want to be generous across the board. Yes. But when it comes to systemic stuff like this in your house, man, sitting down and having the harder conversation is always more valuable. Dave Ramsey here, most people stay stuck with their money because they're not paying attention to it. Most people are living paycheck to paycheck, stressed out, and broke. Don't be most people. You work way too hard to be broke and feel broke, and you deserve to have something to show for it. That's why we built the every dollar budget app. It gives you a personalized plan

for your money that shows you how to free up extra money every month and use it to beat debt and build lasting wealth. Plus, you get real coaches guiding you through your plan step by step. Look, most people hearing this will just keep hoping something changes, but not you. You're ready to make change happen, starting now. Go download every dollar in the app store or Google Play and start for free today. Our scripture today comes from Isaiah 43. 19. See, I am doing a new thing. Now it springs up. Do you not perceive it? I am making a way in the wilderness and streams in the wasteland. Jim Collins said, the critical question is not whether you have luck, but what you do with the luck that you get.

Oh. Do you remember, this is so random. One time we were hosting together, every time I do it, I kind of laughed to myself because I have this memory of us hosting together. And I didn't say our scripture of the day. I just started saying, see, I am doing it. I just started right into the scripture. We were just hanging out on the air. And Rachel starts speaking in like New King, James Version.

And I was like, uh. He said, what are you saying? I was like, it's our scripture of the day. She's been reading all those like fairy Viking romances or whatever. And she started like speaking in that language. Anyways, I just always makes me laugh. I always like, I need to say scripture of the day. And I don't just start saying, see, I am doing a new thing.

You know what springs up. Although when we're hanging out, just like you and me and Sheila and Winston, you do just sometimes break into these long scriptural. Quote some monologue. No. Yeah. All right. Let's go to Columbus, Ohio. And we have, oh, Alexa.

What a name to have in the world today. Hi, Alexa. Welcome to the show. Hi, good afternoon. Thanks much for taking my call. Yes, absolutely. Thanks for calling. How can we help? Yeah, my husband and I are exciting, about two to three months away from completing baby step two. Yes. Realize that we are not aligned on what to do with our credit card once they are paid off.

Okay. And I'm in the camp of closing them. He is not, and so I'm just looking for talking points on how to help him make him feel good about that decision. Some talking points. Okay, so when you say he doesn't want to close it out, does he want to keep it the credit card in case of an emergency? Or is he wanting to keep it for expenses but pay it off every month? Like what is he looking for when it comes to the credit card? He's in the camp of it's a good credit building tool and then more so in case of an emergency, why not is what he usually uses. Yes, okay.

Well, my talking points, which John could probably get into the cycle. of just what you're desiring, Alexa, and for as husband and wife, you know, how you can approach that with him on more the emotional level. But from just the financial side, you know, what we find is people who especially rack up credit card debt throughout the month and say, we're going to pay it off, more, I think it's like right close to 50% of my parents don't. And so half the people are telling themselves a lie that they can afford it when they really can't. And if your credit card is your emergency fund, then you're just, you are adding risk back into your life. And what I think it does is I think it slows down the motivation to actually save and have a fully funded emergency

fund that should be your safety net. You should be your safety net, not, you know, a credit card company. And then when it goes to building your credit score, I mean, yeah, if he's wanting to go, you know, get loans, then yeah, yeah, you will have to have a credit score. But if you want to live a life debt-free, which you guys have done and you've worked so diligently to get out of debt, why you would want to go get a car loan again or a personal loan, I don't know why you would. But if you did, then having a credit score would be important. But we believe you don't have to live with debt, so you don't have to have a credit score. And for a mortgage, that's the one type of debt we're okay with, that you can actually do manual underwriting. You don't even have to have

a credit score to do that. So there's a way to live life without a credit score, but you really are choosing to live life debt-free, which ultimately, which is why we do this show, we really do believe it brings the ultimate piece when you don't owe anyone anything and you have autonomy of your money. Can I give you a bad, like an example that's probably not fair, Alexa? How long have y'all been married? Married two weeks. Oh, wow.

You all are just in this. How long did y'all date? We've been together for about eight years. Gross. That's a decade. Awesome. Okay. Imagine, I'm going to be ridiculous. Will you be ridiculous with me? Sure. Okay. Imagine y'all both cheated on each other at the beginning of your dating relationship. And then y'all both decided it's you and me, right or die, we're going to do this thing.

And then y'all were both like, but let's keep those one night stands numbers in our phone just in case you get annoying. Oh my gosh. Right? It's ridiculous, right? It's ridiculous. You would never. do that. You would say, no, no, no, no, we're married. We're going to figure this thing out. And so if we have a fight, if we don't like each other for a while, which is every marriage, if we're annoying each other, we're going to sit down and figure this out. If you work like crazy to get out of debt and you're like, well, let's just keep these things open just in case. You're going to use them. If you don't have that number in your phone, you're going to have to sit down and figure out, all right, we had the fridge go out and the transmission fell out

of the car. We're going to figure this out. What are we going to do? And we're going to buy a $50 used fridge on Craigslist just to put milk and eggs in to get us through. And we're going to be a one car family for a month. Yes, right. You will figure out how to do it right. And so I, for me, I'll tell you this. It's why I keep social media on a separate phone. I'm not good enough. The tech folks who created these social media, they're better than me. They are better than me. So I have to put a bunch of steps in front of me. It's a tool I have to use for work. So it has to go on a separate phone with an off switch that goes in my bag, et cetera, et cetera.

When it comes to credit cards, I'm not good enough. I'm not. They're better than me. Always knowing I could always just quickly jump to this thing. So that's why I think you close them. You set up a bunch of hurdles between you and where you actually want to go. Love it. I appreciate it.

Thank you. Yeah, you bet. And congratulations. two weeks in. I know. I'm glad you're already having this big fight. Good luck. All right.

Let's go to John in Denver. Hi, John. Hi. I had a question on your guys' thoughts on public loan forgiveness. My girlfriend is graduating medical school and is starting her residency. And the three years of her residency will count towards the 10 years needed for public loan forgiveness. So I didn't know if that's something from a we should pursue standpoint or if it's more so, hey, we can aggressively pay this off once she gets her first kind of normal paying doctor job.

Or what your guys' stances were on public loan forgiveness. So I'll tell you this. I have a really significant built-in bias and I'll give you the other side of my bias. I worked at a law school for six, seven years, for a while. And I had a number of some of the most brilliant, compassionate minds forego working in big law where they could go make a whole bunch of money. And they chose to go do public service law with the idea that they were going to be a part of this loan forgiveness program. And then they all got hosed. They weren't, they weren't, like they kept getting denied or not reimbursed or delayed.

or delayed or an administrative error or clerical error or some sort of mess. And so I have been ranting. I don't trust the government to come in and pay off any, I don't trust them to do anything they say they're going to do in 10 years. I mean, go back 10 years politically. Could you have imagined today? No. Right. And so when I look into the future 10 years, I would say, man, I trust me and my wife more than anybody else in the world. That said, I want to also give the other side is the public service loan forgiveness has gone up. They have been processing more and they've been getting through this backlog of millions of people. I would continue to pay on it if it was my house just because I don't trust what's going to happen in 10 years.

But I'm telling you what I would do in my home. I'm telling you what I did do in my home. My wife and I paid off our student loans of our doctoral programs that could have qualified for public service because we didn't trust the outcome. Right. Which, and my only thought is, and then this is my nervousness, I guess, or, you know, comparing to draft whether you put money in the market, et cetera, is that she has over, it'll be over about $600,000. We don't have any consumer debt, really. The only thing we have is. Well, and it's not we, John, it's your girlfriend.

So keep things separate. Right, correct. Yeah. Which, and the plan is trending in... A good direction. I'm glad. I'm glad. Yeah.

No, I won't spoil anything, but that's where... For sure. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, again, we, yeah, we've heard the good side, bad side. We tend to lean on... I'm going to lean every time. Personal responsibility and just take care of it.

But we do know people, we've had people calling on the show, and they've chosen to give their life that way, and it worked out for them. And that's great. $600,000. It feels like an... insane gamble to take on the government going to do what they say they're going to do in 10 years. Yep. All right, John. Thanks for the call. Great show, everyone. John, thanks so much. And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace. And that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace,

Christ Jesus.