The Ramsey Show - Hard Decisions Now Prevent Harder Consequences Later

Starting point is 00:00:05 Brought to you by the Every Dollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Jade Warshall, number one best-selling author is my co-host today

Starting point is 00:00:30 and Ramsey personality. And today is a big deal around Ramsey. Happy New Year to everybody. And this is also the day that Jade's new book What No One Tells You About Money is officially here. Woo! Here it is. It's here.

Starting point is 00:00:45 I'm holding it. It's real. And you can order it, and it will be sent to you post-aste. It is an incredible book. If you've never ever known what to do with your money but couldn't follow through, it's not a discipline problem. Your emotions are getting in the way. Frustration, fear, shame.

Starting point is 00:01:00 All of that shows up and how we handle our money. And, Jade, you cover every bit of that here. I do. I do. In great detail and with much story elements involved. So it's not a boring read, Dave. No, I read a book over the holidays that had no story. And I felt like I was back in college.

Starting point is 00:01:18 It was work. It's like a lesson. I got it. And it was good. The information was good. But I had to work at it a little more because there was no humor and there was no story. No, when there's story, you can see yourself. I think there's one joke in the whole book.

Starting point is 00:01:30 I need a joke. When a story, you see yourself in it, you've lived it. You're like, oh, yeah, I've done that before. I've been there before. I know what that feels like. And it makes it easier to digest and put into action. Well, and to go with the stories, of course, is the detailed plan of how to address that emotions are real. Personal finance is 80% behavior.

Starting point is 00:01:51 It's only 20% had knowledge. The problem with your money is most likely in your mirror. It is in your mirror. It's in my mirror. Yes. It's in mine too. It is in mine too. But this book is going to give you, it's like it's a, it's very prescriptive, Dave.

Starting point is 00:02:07 It's a diagnostic. So if you're like, what is my problem? What is my logjam? We are going to figure out what it is together. There it is. What no one tells you about money, the real key to getting unstuck from somebody who's been there. And it's like having one of us walking with you all the time.

Starting point is 00:02:25 You don't want to miss this. This book will bring behavioral finance down to earth. You get your copy right now. They're 2499 at ramsysolutions.com slash store. If you're watching on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the description. when I'm out there running around, people say, Jade's my favorite. Well, prove it.

Starting point is 00:02:41 Buy our book today. So that's what we want to know. That's how we want you to prove it. You have to prove it. You have to prove your love. All right, Sandy is with us in Orlando. Hey, Sandy, what's up? Hey, so I have a question.

Starting point is 00:02:54 My husband and I lived in our home for 15 years. We had an interest rate of 2.7%. Our mortgage payment was $1,800. We decided. to jump to a different neighborhood because our neighborhood had been changing a good bit in terms of a variety of different things, not going the right direction. And we jumped on a new home, on a different house. It's an older home. It needs some work. We now have a almost $4,000 a month mortgage payment, 6% interest rate, and we did not really sit down and do our homework.

Starting point is 00:03:37 and the house really doesn't meet our functional needs. Do you have two people who work corporate out of the home every day, and we're missing some functional space? And I kind of freaked out because our other home more than met our needs for long term. And my husband got angry and basically said, you need to leave. I'm so angry with you over this. and he's like, if you don't leave, then I'm going to leave.

Starting point is 00:04:09 About the house, he's angry with you about the house? Yes. Because it was your idea? Yes. And so then we rented another home in the area because we're bound to this area for schools for our daughter. Okay. And so now that's a $2,750 like rent payments, and I still haven't moved in there. And I called the lady and she will let me out.

Starting point is 00:04:38 So I've only paid two months and I haven't moved in because I need his help because I can't move a bed, et cetera, by myself. And so my question is, like, how long have you been married? Like almost 23 years. And we have no car loads. We have maybe $1,000 on the credit card. We have no other debt. We've always been financially.

Starting point is 00:05:03 But this isn't about the debt. It can't be. and it's not about the house. That may have been a catalyst. We bought a house together. How did it end up being your fault? Oh, because, I think because for a long time I had asked to move just because of things that had happened in our original neighborhood. And this was just a bad choice financially.

Starting point is 00:05:31 It's the wrong house. We should have just stayed where we were to get our daughter through her last two years of school. but now we have this mortgage payment that's more, and now we have a written payment on top of that. You know what? I don't give a crap about your house. Okay. I don't know what to do. Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, okay?

Starting point is 00:05:51 I don't care about your house. So anything I want to save is your marriage, okay? Well, I do too, but that's more important. No, no, no, no, no, no, that's more important than a house. He said, if you don't leave, I'm leaving. Yeah, so. So what do you need is a marriage counselor, right? Well, we've started with one, and then we've been paying her, and then she's out of network,

Starting point is 00:06:16 but which is fine. What is your household income? I make, like, 180, and he makes $250. Okay. Don't talk to me about network and marriage counselors. Okay. You pay the freaking marriage counselor. It's the first thing you do, and both of you spend every day with them until you get this figured out.

Starting point is 00:06:37 because if you don't get your marriage straightened out, you're going to go bankrupt. Because you guys are making stupid but choices left and right based on a broken marriage, not based on anything else. Right. So the solution is a healing in your relationship, and that we together then can decide how we're going to move forward. If you lost the house and moved into an apartment, both of you together, and the blame, with the rent sued you, I'd be okay if it saved your marriage. Well, there's, I mean, there's no apartments in the area we live in.

Starting point is 00:07:18 Stop. Confine. Stop. We're confined to an area for schools. Quit, quit coming up with this, okay? My point is that you're putting the house story at the front of the story. It's at the back of the story. The front of the story is you and your husband.

Starting point is 00:07:36 If you solve that, you'll find a solution to. to the other things. There may be some pain involved based on some of the stupid stuff y'all have done lately, but it's very possible. You left a house that your daughter was in good schools. You can find a house that your daughter was in good schools, and you can find something to do, but 23 years worth of marriage and a little girl are at stake, not a stupid house. I couldn't give a crap less about the house. For that matter, before I worry about your daughter's school, I'm going to save your marriage. She'll survive somewhere else. Teenagers do it all the time. Pick her little butt up and move her if it saves your marriage. So you've got to get these things in the right order here

Starting point is 00:08:25 and quit creating these things where you're boxed in. You're not boxed in. You've got choices. But it starts and ends in the marriage counselor's office right now, today. And yes, you can freaking afford it $300,000 a year. When you've saved up and paid cash for a reliable used car, you want that thing to last. And the best way to keep it running for the long haul is to take care of it with people you trust. That's why I'm proud to welcome Christian Brothers Automotive is the official auto repair partner of the Ramsey Show. At Christian Brothers, they treat you like family. You'll get digital vehicle inspections so you can see exactly what your technician sees,

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Starting point is 00:10:41 Emily. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Um, so I worked for a large insurance company, and they have always offered to give me a corporate credit card, and I've always declined, and I've paid for company expenses using my debit card and gotten reimbursed. However, my role has changed. I'm going to be accumulating more expenses, and I've started asking more questions about the corporate card. They say that it won't affect my credit, but I'm just feeling a little conflicted about having a credit card in my wallet. I don't use credit, even if I'm just an authorized user on the corporate account, and so I just kind of wanted to know what your thoughts were on that.

Starting point is 00:11:21 What type of card is it? I have no idea. You don't know if it's an Amex? You don't know if it's an Amex, do you? I don't. Okay. If it's American Express, do not sign it. Okay.

Starting point is 00:11:34 Their agreement will hold you liable. They are sharks. Okay. If it is a standard visa or MasterCard, you're not liable by. becoming an authorized user. And technically, it's not supposed to report on your credit bureau, but often it gets screwed up and they report on authorized users. Okay?

Starting point is 00:11:59 So if they don't pay the bill on time, it may show up on your credit bureau report. If it ever does, pull your credit bureau report once a year. Everybody ought to do that anyway. And if it ever does, check it and have disputed and have it removed because you're not liable on the card if it's a standard master card unless you sign the bank documents to say i'm liable authorized user does not make you liable okay perfect well that's helpful i've never used your credit card i've followed your stuff for years so i really appreciate it well thank you thank you i appreciate that but i but i you know be prepared if it's a master card or visa for it to actually pop on to your

Starting point is 00:12:39 credit bureau report which i've never really understood but it does happen well let's talk about from the other way. Let's suppose it is an Amex. What's the conversation that you would have with the employer? I wouldn't do it. I'm not signing that. I'm going to have to figure out some other workaround. They either need to get me a different card or whatever. But that, I have had way too many customers over the years. They were in deep stuff because some company went bankrupt. And then Amex starts calling them wanting their money. And I also wouldn't want to put it on my personal debit card because that's a problem too. That's a problem too. If they don't get, you know, if they don't get reimbursed, that's a problem, especially if it's starting to be a lot of money. Like you said,

Starting point is 00:13:14 Yeah, that messes with your own cash flow. Yeah, you just got to make your choices through all that. But I'd stay away from an MX corporate card. They are bad, bad juice. And the other's okay. It's not your card. You're not liable for it. You're just using someone.

Starting point is 00:13:29 It's like going to dinner with somebody has a credit card. And they bought your dinner. You know, I mean, that's all it is. Except you can sign for it. That's the only difference. But, yeah, you can do that. And, you know, but I suspect they have. have that. I guess another workaround could be, well, we have, we have corporate debit cards.

Starting point is 00:13:50 Yeah. So like you travel, you have a debit card? I do. I do. You have a Ramsey debit card. Okay. And so we don't ask our people that travel to use their money and get reimbursed. We pay for their travel. So if you're on the road doing a media hit in New York City or something and you're up there doing Fox and that kind of stuff, then the hotel and all that junk, whatever it is. Put it on that. Car services all on us. And, you know, you just only use it for business. things. You don't go buy yourself something on it, you know. Yeah, you still submit your receipts and everything is still, it's the same process. Same as having a company credit card, but there's no possibility of liability because you're, you are an authorized user, but that's, that's the same thing. They could

Starting point is 00:14:28 issue that. If they have Amex, they could issue a company debit card if they really want to go crazy for her on a master card or a visa platform, and she'd be just fine with that. Okay, taking it a level deeper. Okay. So how much, okay, this is where my brain goes to this. I agree with everything we're saying. How much does that make her, does that make her a difficult employee by going to the employer and saying? I think her attitude about it is that, okay? Yeah. It's what makes her difficult. It's like, guys, I'm just worried about this. Help me. Instead of like, I demand. There we go. Yes. You know, it's like, you want to, I demand something. You can demand somewhere else. We don't here, okay? We don't do that. But instead you go, hey, help me with this.

Starting point is 00:15:11 I'm struggling with this. I don't agree with this. I don't want to be liable. And I understand with Amix I would be. And you can pull up, by the way, folks, you can pull up the Amics thing online. It's not hard to pull it up. So go more with the liability. That's the case you're making.

Starting point is 00:15:27 And I'm scared. Yes. Thing. Then. I don't believe in debt. Debt's wrong. Yeah. I don't want to be in debt accidentally.

Starting point is 00:15:34 Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Okay. And just having a credit card kind of creeps me out. but I can do it if this is the way it's done and I'll be okay. But I just want to talk this through and I don't want to be difficult. I don't be a problem. Somebody has that conversation once or twice with us on something.

Starting point is 00:15:48 We'd be going, okay, sure. Yeah, how can you be mad? Yeah. But if they come back like 17 times, then it starts, even if they're nice, it starts to be, yeah, you're not listening. Yeah, get over it. So we're not doing this. But there's a thing that's somewhere in there. But yeah, I mean, most employers, now again, you can, you can, you can, you can, you

Starting point is 00:16:08 be in a toxic work environment, they could use this against you. But that's not, it's not the actual situation that's going to get used against you. It's actually the problem people is what's going on there. Abby's in Nashville. Hey, Abby, how are you? Good. How are you? Better than we deserve. What's up? Okay, I just have a question. My husband and I were 24. We built our house about a year and a half ago. So our only debt is our mortgage. We followed yourself since before we were married. And I just We're kind of on two different pages as far as paying extra on our house. I am just the mindset of, well, this is our only debt. Let's just knock it out as quickly as we can, whereas he has a pretty specific number in his head

Starting point is 00:16:50 as far as, like, liquid in the bank that he would like to keep. Wait a minute, I'm sorry. Liquid in the bank, in addition to the emergency fund? Yes. Okay. The part where you followed our stuff, you just left. Wait, what? I said the part, you said you follow our stuff.

Starting point is 00:17:09 When you say liquid, is it just savings to have savings? He wants $100,000 in a savings account? Well, we own our own business, so we have a few different accounts. We have like a business checking account, a savings account, and then like a regular checking account where like all of our stuff like day-to-day. Okay, so what is the amount he's got in his head? He doesn't want to get under $100,000. How big is the business? What kind of gross revenue is it doing annually?

Starting point is 00:17:43 Last year, we were just under 100. This year we're on track for, I'll be real, in 2025. Okay, I was talking about 2024 was under 100. 2025, we have not finished our taxes yet, the first two quarters. He was at 120. Okay. Gross revenue? Yes, sir. Okay, so $250,000 gross. All right, and what are you going to net on the business? think? Honestly, I don't, I would undershoot it and say, oh gosh, I don't even know. He is maybe a hundred and, okay, so maybe he's making $100,000 a year. What do you make?

Starting point is 00:18:21 We'll just say that yet. Oh, I've worked part-time since we had our baby, so I'm a cosmetologist. This year I'm on track for like 25 or 30. Okay, so your emergency fund should be three to six months of expenses. Okay. Your personal checking account, two or three thousand dollars float in the there's enough. Okay, that's what we have right now. In the business itself, in the business itself, the most you would ever need is six months to a year of expenses. Okay. And so his number's a little high. His number's a little high. What I would recommend he do is this, and this is what we recommend to the Entree leadership team that we coach about 10,000 small businesses, okay? And it's also what we do at Ramsey. We take a percentage of our net profit. And we take a percentage of our net profit.

Starting point is 00:19:08 each month and add to our retained earnings, our savings in the business. Okay. Okay. And so let's say you made $10,000 a month and you said, I'm going to put 10% away. That'd be I'm going to put $1,000 in there. If I made $20,000, I'm going to put $2,000. Whatever it is, I'm going to take a percentage of it. The rest of it, I'm bringing home, and then I get to decide if I want to pay down on my house.

Starting point is 00:19:35 But you need to keep the business savings savings. savings and retained earnings separate in your minds from your baby step six. That also being said, now's baby step six is baby step six. It's not baby step two. So you wanting to go hard in the paint as if it were to, you're not fully fair on that either. So some of that money can go towards other fun stuff. Growing in the business and other things. Yeah, exactly. With interest rates finally dropping, now could be the window you've been waiting for to buy a home or refinance.

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Starting point is 00:21:55 I am also better than I deserve. Thank you. Good. How can we help? So I'm calling for some guidance on what to do about some student loans, one of which my mom took out in my name without me knowing. Who got the use of the money? I don't know. So that's the other thing I need help with.

Starting point is 00:22:22 Who's the option? Would it have been for you or for a sibling? Or for her, for a sibling? She bought a car where they go to Europe? I don't think she bought a car or went to Europe. And she didn't spend it on a sibling. But I'm trying to make sense of the numbers. So the first loan that I did know about was for $20,000.

Starting point is 00:22:44 But I recall that my tuition was only about. 17 for that year. And so there's an extra $3,000. And I kind of brushed it off thinking, oh, maybe she used that for, you know, my living expenses. Well, I learned right before Christmas that she took out a second $20,000 loan. And there's no way that my living expenses were $20,000 for that year because the only The only thing she was paying was my rent for a very shuddy place that was shared with 10 girls. How old is this?

Starting point is 00:23:28 How old are you? 23. So when was this all done? Two or three years ago? Yes. Yeah, my last year, which was two years ago. Okay. So you're out now out of school and you've got a job, right?

Starting point is 00:23:42 Yes. What do you make? What do you make? 48 plus a couple thousand extra for stuff. And then there's $40,000, where $2,000 loans that you did not sign for, she fraudulently signed your name. The first one I agreed to, so I wouldn't say that's fraudulent. I didn't want to. It is fraudulent, but you agreed to it.

Starting point is 00:24:04 Okay. It's just the $3,000. You don't know what happened to that $3,000. If you didn't sign it and someone else signs your name, that's called fraud. Well, I think I remember signing something, and it was with my school. Then your mother did not take the loan out. You did. Yeah, you took it.

Starting point is 00:24:20 You just don't know what happened to the $3,000. Tell us about the second $20,000 loan. So yes, I'm okay. I made peace with the first one. It was against my better judgment, but I've learned that that was my fault and I've been attacking that, killing it. The second one is what has me upset and angry and confused.

Starting point is 00:24:38 And so that total is 20, just over 21,000 because some interest has accrued. Have you seen the promissory note? Because you can go back and see who, signed it? No. So should I ask that company for it? Um, well, let's stop. Let's go back a minute. I want to go back to Christmas for a second. So how this conversation sound? We have not had a conversation about it. How did you find out about it? Because, uh, my bank bank, like, has a credit alert, credit score alert, and it popped up that my credit had gone down. And I didn't even

Starting point is 00:25:19 know I had a credit score because I have no other debt. And the first loan is just through my college, which does not a, does not take federal money. Doesn't matter if it takes federal money. They still report it. Still on your credit. Well, it's not. That one's not showing up. The one that I knew about was my college. So it pops up and you found it there. And you didn't say anything to your mother? No. Why? We're not on the best terms. I feel like she would just lie or cry about it. She kind of lied to my dad about it when I asked him. about it. She was like, oh, yeah, I wondered about that. I don't know why. I've been paying it. Well, she hasn't paid a dollar on it. So if I confronted her...

Starting point is 00:26:04 Is your dad and mom married? No, they've recently divorced, which is kind of what started this all off. I see. Okay. All right. Well, there's two options. All right. And neither one of them are pretty. I'm sorry. Okay. One is you get in touch with... with the servicing company that's servicing the student loan, and you turn it over as identity theft, okay? Okay. That someone stole my identity and opened a student loan in my name,

Starting point is 00:26:42 and that someone happens to sadly be my mother, and I did not sign this debt. You're very sure you did not sign that one, right? Yes. Okay. That would entail taking out a police report and reporting her to law enforcement, for being a criminal?

Starting point is 00:27:00 Because she is, by the way, a criminal. Okay. Stealing money using my taxpayer dollars. I'm the one freaking paying this. Okay. Pisses me off because your mother's scummy. She's a criminal. So you've got to put her in that bucket and then file a police report.

Starting point is 00:27:23 The second option is equally as ugly. Shut up and pay it. I don't like either one of them, do you? No, not at all. I'm sorry, but this is what happens, you know, with this ridiculous student loan program that we have now. So if you want to dig into it, you can spend a lot of energy and calories and figure out who signed it, but someone signed it and you're either going to see your little signature there and you forgot about it or you're going to see the criminal signature there that looks suspiciously like your mother's handwriting.

Starting point is 00:28:00 And then you get to still make this exact same decision. Either way, you get to make this decision. Before I reported her to the police, I'd be very, very sure that you didn't sign it, though. But I don't know that they'll put her in jail. I doubt it. I wish they would put some people in jail for doing this kind of crap, particularly people who steal their own children's identity for their own personal benefit of some kind. and then cry about it.

Starting point is 00:28:27 Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I robbed a bank. I'm going to cry about it. Oh, I'm so sorry. I don't want to go to jail. I robbed a bank. Oh, my God. I mean, it's true.

Starting point is 00:28:38 It's true, Amanda. It sounds like you're kind of used to this type of behavior. Yeah, like your mother's nuts. Like, this is a pattern. It's not just one event that's taken place. And we're here to tell you that this is really bad. I'm so sorry. I'm sorry that you're having to face this at 23 free.

Starting point is 00:28:55 years old and decide what you're doing. I can tell you this, okay? If you want to dig into it, you decide to pay it because I got a feeling that's what you're going to do. I'm not sure it's what I would do, but I've got a feeling that's what you're going to do. And I'm not judging you either way because neither one of these are good options. I'm telling you that. But I would have a conversation with your mother in person and say, if you ever, under any circumstances, think about, if it even crosses your mind to use my name to borrow money ever again go to jail do not pass go do not collect $200 I'm going to send your butt straight to jail now you'll be a little bit nicer than that but not much I was going to say I don't know if you'd be much I'm going to set the table

Starting point is 00:29:41 okay to where this never happens again because it costs you $21,000 to deal with your family dysfunction if you decide to pay it you don't know have to pay it if you didn't sign it. You are not liable for something you didn't sign. Your parents do not have power of attorney over you because they bred you. That is not how the legal system works. Okay. And so unless you have signed a power of attorney, they cannot sign your name, period. And saying something firm is not mean. You know what I'm saying? I was being pretty, I was being pretty sarcastic and crazy there. I don't know. I think I'll be very, very clear, very clear. If you ever use my name again.

Starting point is 00:30:24 Go to jail, mom. I'm not going to screw around. You stay away from me. Yeah, yeah, you got to lay down the boundary. That's what this $21,000 is going to cost you. Yeah. I wish they would try it. Wow, that's different.

Starting point is 00:30:37 The ones that get me to the thing, I mean, people at 12 years old, they took out a credit card on a 12 year old. Yes, happens all the time. $20,000 on a 12 year old. Ruining. Not a haul your butt to jail for doing that. And just sit it over there. Just set over there in the jail. That's where you ought to be.

Starting point is 00:30:56 Because you're stealing money and you're using your own child to do it. What a scumburger. You already know the power of generosity and the best gifts make an impact now and eternally. That's what pre-born does. And you can trust them to do it well. They don't just offer free ultrasounds. They support pregnancy clinics across the country with, ultrasound machines, training, grants, and evangelism tools. They're faithful with each dollar

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Starting point is 00:32:49 com slash Ramsey. Cynthia is with us in Atlanta. Hi, Cynthia. How are you? Good. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can we help?

Starting point is 00:33:18 Yeah, I made $94,000 before taxes. Good for you. What do you do? I'm an engine builder for the military. Very cool. Good for you. Good, good. So you're in the military or you just work civilian for the military?

Starting point is 00:33:33 No, I work in another place, and I just only do military engines. Gotcha. Cool. Okay, good. How can we help? I'm like $32,000 in debt. Mm-hmm.

Starting point is 00:33:48 And I got, my home is paid for, and I got a paid for Jeep Wrangler. But I bought another car just to drive back and forth to work to save money. But I got like a lot of Zilk out of pay, PayPal. You know how you just don't want to spend your money. money. And I got a personal loan. And I just want to know what's the fastest way. Because at my job, I'm already doing like 15% in my 401k. So I have a feeling, do you have a stack of money saved somewhere? Do you have money saved? I did, but I don't know more because after my son passed away, I just went on a spending street. And when did they pass away, huh?

Starting point is 00:34:36 2018. So you said you've got a bunch of... So did you borrow money for the car that was cheaper, end quotes? Well, I got like a $7,000 car long. I love holding $7,000 on it now. Everything is current, but it's just like I'm throwing my money away. I don't know why my money go. Half of the time I'd be like, I make good money.

Starting point is 00:35:00 Yeah, you do make good money. You make way too much money to be this broken out of control. Yes. But your heart was broken. Yeah. I'm out of control, baby. I need help. Okay.

Starting point is 00:35:12 Because I buy like $5,600 for clothes a week. Oh, wow, yeah. Yeah. My dad used to say that half of solving a problem is realizing there is one. Cynthia, I think you realized it. Yeah. Are you sick and tired of being sick and tired yet? Yes.

Starting point is 00:35:28 Okay. Enough to change? Yes. Okay. Because I think you can. You make enough money to straighten this out as soon as we straighten you out, right? Yeah. Have you looked at how much it is when you combine it all together, all the buy now pay

Starting point is 00:35:43 later's and the personal loans, all that? How much is it? Yeah, like, I got, I got them wrote down in a tablet at home. And so I got like, I came over, I said y'all like on New Year's, the day before New Year. And I just went to writing down everything that I had. Good. And I was like, I'm going to get my life together. Good.

Starting point is 00:36:07 Good. And I went, I came to the store to return some stuff. Okay. And I would like to put the money back on my debit card. And my friends said this is the first time I ever seen you go in the store and come out without nothing in your hands. I said, I'm on a budget. I can't do it no more. Okay.

Starting point is 00:36:25 So you created, did you create a budget or are you just saying you're on a budget? No, I created a budget. Good. Yeah. So what did you find? Did you do on every dollar in? That's what I did. that. Great. What did you find? Did you, did you find, tell us what you found. I was like having like,

Starting point is 00:36:44 I got $3,600 like, um, into debt, but I have like $2,200 left. And I was like, where that money at? Okay. My friend was like, look on the floor. You got shoes stacked up to the ceiling. You don't need to put on your feet. Listen. You wear your clothes one time and give them away. That's a friend. That's a true. friend to tell you the truth. So you got $2,000 of margin every single month, and it's just going to crap, crap, basically. Yeah, and so, when I was at work, I said, it's only

Starting point is 00:37:16 $3,600 of debt? No, 32,000. No, I got $32,000, but like when I pay my stuff off a month, I have, like, that left, but I increased, I was at work. I said, I'm going to increase my homework. You're not married, right? No.

Starting point is 00:37:35 Okay, what I want you to do is I want you to keep. this every dollar app and I want you to give your friend access to the every dollar app to be your accountability partner. Yeah, because she's a good friend. And tell her to bust you if you don't do anything except get out of debt. No buying nothing. Cynthia, you have enough crap to less you for the rest of your life. If you don't do anything except pay rent, work, eat, keep the lights on, you can be out of debt in no time. Well, you don't even have rent to pay. My home is paid for.

Starting point is 00:38:08 That's right. That's right. I forgot that. So how much, when you look at your budget, how much can you put towards debt every single month? How much extra? Well, I got like a $10,000 check coming on tomorrow. Okay, great. And so I said that I was going to take that and start it.

Starting point is 00:38:28 Well, I got my $1,000. Mm-hmm. Big step one. You're on it. You're on it. And then I said with that $10,000 I were going to take that because I got like $2,000 a back home taxes and I need to just go on and pay that $2,000. Yes, you do.

Starting point is 00:38:42 You better. And then just go on and start paying all my credit cards out of the smallest to the Lord. That's right. That's right. So the other $8,000 goes to that. And then if you just continue to take, I think I heard you say you had $2,000 in margin every month. If you take that, I mean, you're going to be done with this by the end of the year.

Starting point is 00:39:01 That's what I want to hear. Okay. Or sooner. Or sooner, if you get intense about it, because something tells me you do have more margin than 2000. All those shoes and purses, why don't you put them on eBay? That's what somebody else said. Instead of giving them away. Yeah, because it's brand new, basically.

Starting point is 00:39:15 Yeah, let's put them on eBay. People buy that stuff, man. I'll pay big money for it. Yeah, because she's, this is not, this is nice stuff. This girl buys good stuff. I can tell. Yeah. I think there's a name brand, Cynthia, laying there in your floor.

Starting point is 00:39:28 Oh, yeah. Put that on Poshmark. Put that on the nice places. Okay. Poshmart is eBay? Washmark. Yeah. It's where you get the nice high-end stuff.

Starting point is 00:39:37 Oh, used. Yeah. Okay, cool. All right, there you go. See, I don't know this because I don't do that. But, yeah. Good. Very good.

Starting point is 00:39:43 Hi, Cynthia. I think you already had a pretty good plan before you called us. Okay. You were working the stuff we teach exactly the way we teach. Everything we asked you, you answered the way we would have told you to do it. I'm very impressed with you. Thank you. Okay.

Starting point is 00:40:00 Now, do it. Okay. Okay. Be, you know, act like your friends standing in your back pocket and say, no screwing around. Time to be a grown up. No buying stuff. Don't be walking in. Don't even go in a store.

Starting point is 00:40:13 Drunks don't need to go in a bar. Yeah. Yeah. So just stay out of the store. You don't need to go there and don't get on some website unless you're selling something. All you need to do is sell stuff and work. Can I give her my book yet? Can I give her my book?

Starting point is 00:40:27 Absolutely. You're the prime candidate because your emotions were driving you. and this will just help you stay motivated even more going into the new year. So Christian's back there. He'll pick up and give it to you. I think you're the first person I've given this book. That's good. Yeah, that's good.

Starting point is 00:40:43 Thank you. And Cynthia, listen, here's the deal. When someone loses their son and their heart is broken and they make some spending mistakes, that doesn't make you a bad person. It just means that your heart was hurting. You're okay. You're okay. But don't live the rest of your life this way.

Starting point is 00:41:03 for your sake, okay? Okay. Yeah. You didn't do a bad thing. You just heart was broken, okay? Okay, thank you. Yeah, just go on and now let's go win. Let's get this mess straightened up.

Starting point is 00:41:17 And in his memory, instead of having a pile of shoes, let's have a pile of money and get this thing worked out. Yep. That's a different change on that. Yeah. Because I've got to tell you, the number of times that emotions, just like your book, activate, and sometimes it's a broken heart, grieving. Yes.

Starting point is 00:41:38 The loss of a loved one, the loss of a relationship, the loss of a job. Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes it takes people a while, depending on the severity and the weirdness of the situation, takes longer than others. But the good news is something happened around New Year's for Cynthia. Clicked into place. And she woke up and thank God, something popped up on Instagram.

Starting point is 00:42:02 was us instead of one of these goobers that are just telling, you know, sofi, telling you go in dead or something, right? And she did everything. She already started doing it all. Yeah. It's very, very good, very impressive. Take those moments and run with them. Amen. I call that a God moment is what I call it. Well done, Cynthia. You call us back anytime, honey. We're here to help you. It's what we're for. If you missed open enrollment, don't panic. Most health plans lock you out for the year if you didn't sign up by December, but Christian health care ministries lets you join anytime. CHM offers a simple, flexible, and budget-friendly alternative to health insurance, and you can

Starting point is 00:43:13 join anytime. That's right, no open enrollment deadlines. CHM is perfect if you're self-employed, starting a business, or in between jobs, because it gives you options without those out-of-control COBRA costs. And CHM is an insurance. It's a community of believers coming together to share medical bills and pray for one another. That's real peace of mind. You're not just sharing costs. You are sharing community. And families have trusted CHM since 1981 with billions of dollars and medical bills shared. You can see any doctor or hospital you want with no network restrictions and members say that they often save hundreds of dollars a month compared to traditional insurance. So make a change that fits your budget and your values.

Starting point is 00:44:01 Check out CHministries.org slash budget to learn more. That's CHministries.org slash budget. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. Jade Walshaw, number one bestselling author. Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. Her new book, What No One Tells You About Money, is out. It's official. You can get it now.

Starting point is 00:44:38 We've been pre-selling it back through Christmas and everything, and now we are here and rocking, and it's going out the door. There's a stack of them on the table. minute ago. She's signing them over here, getting them ready to go out to folks. All kinds of good things happening. Jamie is in Tennessee. Hi, Jamie. How are you? I'm doing good. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up? Yes, just something of my question, I get shorter. What I'm asking is, should that keep me from getting married? So I am currently on

Starting point is 00:45:07 baby step number three. Me and my boyfriend have been dating for about a year, a couple months now, and we are very serious about marriage. He unfortunately does have about $8,000 in debt. And as we're talking about a wedding and engagement and all these things, we're just trying to make sure that we're making a good financial decision. So just trying to hear y'all's opinion on that. Yeah, I definitely would not say that debt should keep you from getting married. However, going forward, there are some things that you can do to position yourself better.

Starting point is 00:45:40 Number one, making sure. you're having a conversation about not just the debt and the current financial situation for both of you, but how you see yourselves going forward in the marriage to start getting on the same page if you're not already. So what does that look? Have you had that conversation of, hey, when we get married, here's the way I view debt. How do you view debt? Here's what I think I'd like to focus on. Do we align?

Starting point is 00:46:05 Have you had those conversations? Yes, we have. and I will say this past year has been a tough year for him because he had an injury and ended up losing his job. So those conversations were easier before all of that happened. And since all of that has happened, which I understand he's become a little bit more reserved and doesn't want to talk about it as much. But I guess from my perspective, I'm like, well, I need to make sure that we're entering

Starting point is 00:46:33 into this on the same page even in the hard times. Very wise. How old are you? I am 28. Good, very good. He's probably feeling some type of way, you know, when you've lost your job, his confidence is not quite right. And so it's probably defensiveness.

Starting point is 00:46:48 But as far as the answer to your question, you're right on track, Jamie. You'd have to be aligned. And here's why. The data tells us that the number one cause of divorce is money fights and money problems. And if we know that going in, then we need to, what, avoid money fights? Correct. And money problems. And what's that mean?

Starting point is 00:47:09 It means we need to be aligned, which was the word you used. Okay. It's a good word, Jamie. Very good word. And so we need to be in agreement about how we're going to handle our money. So the fact that he has some debt doesn't bother me. If he thinks every time there's a bump in the road, every time we hit a pothole, every time things are stressful, we're going to go into debt.

Starting point is 00:47:29 No, no, no, no, no, no. We're going to find another solution, okay? Or that we're going to shut down and not talk about it if we hit a hard time, which is kind of what you're experiencing now. Yeah. So we need to get aligned. And, you know, the other thing we found is there's another piece of data I saw the other day that said those that do in-depth, like a month or two, several meetings of in-depth pre-marriage counseling have a very high probability of a successful marriage. Does not end a divorce. Okay. Because good marriage counseling will cause the divorce before the marriage happens. Okay.

Starting point is 00:48:04 It'll cause you to split up if you can't get on the same page. and so going deep and going hard on that, that would dig out all of this and be on the same page. And one other thing, just to throw in there, it's in the same data set that's out there floating around that we've been observing for about 30 years. And you're very wise. The way you're talking about this is proper, okay? You've got a very good balanced handle on it. And if you can agree on four things before you're married, in depth, your marriage is almost guaranteed to make it. And that's money.

Starting point is 00:48:37 That's kids. How many to have? And who's going to run the house? Whether the inmates are going to run the asylum or not, right? And it's in-laws. How are we going to deal with the crazies on the outside of the house that are kin-kin to us? Okay. And religion.

Starting point is 00:48:54 And if you're agreed on all four of those in depth, you almost always will make it. Okay. Can I also ask, Dave, I guess from a male's perspective as well. How do I go about having these conversations with him right now? Just like that, just data. So data says that if we can be in agreement on the handling of our money, and that's going to require us talking about it, then we're going to have a great marriage.

Starting point is 00:49:24 The data says that, and I want to align with that so that we can talk about setting a date and let's get this done. I'm ready, man. And no, $8,000 is not a reason to not marry the guy. I don't ever want to talk to you about money the rest of my life. Shut up. That's a good reason to not marry a guy. I'm too lazy to work.

Starting point is 00:49:42 That's a good reason to not marry a guy. I intend to buy a new car every year and stay in debt the rest of our lives. And you hate debt. That's a good reason to not marry a guy because you're going to be miserable, right? And I'm going to just add, I shut down whenever times get hard would be a time to maybe just push pause for a second to figure that out. Yeah. Yeah, that is a guy thing in a lot of cases, but it also is a thing to figure out now and how we're going to deal with. And you will figure it out.

Starting point is 00:50:10 It's just figuring it out. Yeah, I think, but you're asking the right questions, but no, we have never told someone to not get married because of debt. We have told people not to get married because of what was going on that caused the debt. Right. Behavior. The character, the behavior, the whatever's going on. And that's a good, those can be deal breakers. But it's not just Dave Ramsey hates debt and you can't get married.

Starting point is 00:50:33 because Dave Rimsie said you can't get married. That's never happened here, ever, in 40 years of doing this show, and nor will it. All right, Jake is with us in Baltimore. Hey, Jake, what's up? Hey, Dave. God is good. I hope you're doing well. We aren't.

Starting point is 00:50:48 How can we help? Yeah, so I'm 26. I'm married. We're debt-free, so praise God for that. Good. My wife and I both work right now, and we want to buy a home that we can comfortably afford on my income alone, since our plan is for her to stay home in the future while we build a family, Lord willing.

Starting point is 00:51:10 What do you make? But in my area, it seems like pricing for homes is so high. I make $75,000. Yeah. Yeah. Baltimore is an expensive market, dude. I know. What do you do for living?

Starting point is 00:51:24 The reason that we want to stay around. I'm not saying you can't stay. I'm just saying you've got to decide what's going to happen here. Okay. We want to buy a home on my income, but there are no homes in my area that we can buy on my income. That leaves you two choices. Get your income up or be in another area. Or do something dumb and buy something more expensive than you can afford.

Starting point is 00:51:51 Well, or buy something where she's planning to work. You know, lots of people do that. And you just, you know, we don't, what does she make? She makes about the same as me. So together we make about $150. Okay. So you can afford a house there. Okay.

Starting point is 00:52:06 Well, I like that you're thinking ahead because a lot of people don't do that. Agreed. And I love that you're thinking that way of here's what we, our desired future for this. So that's very, very smart. But I agree with Dave. You're going to have to decide, is there a pathway for me to earn more money so I can save up this down payment and buy this home the right way? Or do we have to look at looking out of town and what does that mean? Are we going to be our?

Starting point is 00:52:30 Are we going to say? We're going to buy a house instead of be at home. Yeah, that also, that's an option too. That's the three variables involved. You're cutting your income in half. You want to stay in an area. And then there's house prices. Yep.

Starting point is 00:52:42 Something's got to give. One of those three variables has got to move or two of them. It's a brand new year and you've probably got a list of priorities for 2026. Lose weight, get organized, finally create a budget and stick to it. And there's one thing most people know they need to do, but they keep putting it off. making a will. So listen, completing your will is one of the most important things you can do to protect your loved ones and your legacy. That's why I always recommend Mama Bear legal forms. I've seen the mess families go through when someone dies without a will. So it's not a someday thing.

Starting point is 00:53:47 It's a do it now thing. And making your will with Mama Bear is simple, legally binding, affordable, and it takes just 20. minutes to finish. You can even go back and update it later. So don't put this on your to do list. Just do it. 20 minutes to protect everything you've worked for and everyone you love. Go to mama bearlegalforms.com. Use the promo code ramsy to save 20%. That's mamabearlegalforms.com promo code Ramsey. So our last call are talking about affordability on homes, reminded me to something. I look at Instagram about once in a blue moon and I happen to look down and somehow in my feed. Who knows how that stuff happens?

Starting point is 00:54:48 Somebody over there does, but it's not me. A guy is posting, a typical TikTok type thing on there. It was Instagram in this case. It said, I wish we could live like this today. And it said, 1957, and it shows a gentleman standing in front of a home with blue jeans on and rolled up cuffs, a little girl and a wife in a dress, and a car sitting in the driveway in front of their home. He said, this guy is a Ford factory worker, and he can afford a home, a car, and on a factory salary, and his wife can stay home with a kid. And I thought to myself, how are you not looking at this picture? This is an 800 square foot house.

Starting point is 00:55:40 Track housing in Detroit. I'm looking at the house. It's clapboard. It's not got a brick on it. Okay? It's just cheaply built. It's got one bath. Yes.

Starting point is 00:55:53 No microwave. Yes. It has no pulsating showers or jacuzis or skylight. There are no racquetball courts in the neighborhood, and there's certainly not any pickleball courts in the neighborhood. There's not a place to plug in your Tesla. The new car in your driveway is one car, not two, a boat, and three sea dos, not six drones and a trampoline in the backyard. The yard is the size of most of you listening's house. Yes.

Starting point is 00:56:25 It's 0.18 acres. It's called track housing. You can look it up. Okay, they built them in tracks. Just as fast as they could build them down through there to fill the factory workers to give them housing so they could get the factories open and running. Henry Ford did it. It's like he built Model T's off the assembly line. He built these houses off this to do the same thing.

Starting point is 00:56:47 It's not just Ford. Everybody did it. I mean, all the factories, Alcoa, Tennessee, same thing for Alcoa. Same thing happened in the exact same time. But, you know, if we asked someone. that's posting that to live in that house and drive that car, which, by the way, had no air conditioning. Yeah. Would have been straight shift.

Starting point is 00:57:06 There were certainly no airbags. There was no disc brakes. The car was, you know, drive a 1957 car sometime, people. They don't make them like they used to, thank God. Yes. It's basically a lawnmower. We have lawnmowers that are fancier than that car now. He was trying to make a point, but he was.

Starting point is 00:57:27 did it in a not very smart way. No, the point he was making was inaccurate, is my point. Yeah, he got too, he went too dramatic because, to your point. No, he was trying to say, you can't do this today. Well, that's right. You can't do that. And you wouldn't want to do that. You wouldn't, you would not do this today.

Starting point is 00:57:48 If we offered it to you, you wouldn't do it. You would say, oh, the American dream is broken. You want me to live in a tiny house? What he should have said, which is true is, gosh. it's taking me longer than I thought to save for the house that I want and it feels way harder than I thought it was going to be. And the master bedroom of the one I wants larger than this house. Yes. Well, that's why I say the house I want because that is true.

Starting point is 00:58:11 My forever house. It's taking people longer and it's more frustrating. It is frustrating. And that's okay to say, but don't, but to your point, over-dramatizing it, that's not going to help you either. And to say that something's broken. It's not broken. It's different. It is different.

Starting point is 00:58:27 It's a different. It's a different thing. And so there's two or three things. One is you've got to adjust, like we told the gentleman a minute ago, some of your variables. Yes. And say, okay, maybe mom's not at home. If you want to live in an area you can't afford. You know, when I turned 18 years old, I could not, when I turned 24 years old, I could not afford to live in Manhattan. I could not afford to live in most areas of Los Angeles. And that's in early 1980s. Understood, yes. Okay. Because I didn't make enough. Yes. Understood, yes. And so I have to look at that and go, I can't, the math doesn't math, as Jade says, right? Yes.

Starting point is 00:59:07 And so that's the thing one. But the other thing is this, the thing that is screwed a lot of the, I think the millennials and the Gen Zs have had a, I think they've gotten a bad rap. And we are not saying, and I am not saying, that they're whiners. Right. Yes. We've gotten a bad rap for being whiners. What I am saying is this, you're pointing at stuff like an 800 square foot house. That's inaccurate, number one.

Starting point is 00:59:35 Number two, you can't point at that. Now, our last caller was not subject to this. I got to set that aside one more time. But most of the time when someone's bitching about affordability, they've got a $1,200 car payment, a $200,000 student loan. And the car company, you know, Ford has screwed them. They got an $80,000 F-150. That's true.

Starting point is 00:59:56 And their pockets are full of Samuel L. Jackson saying, what's in your wallet? Right? I was wondering where you were going with that. And now I got it. Thank you. What's in your wallet? Yes. What's in your wallet?

Starting point is 01:00:10 Record credit card debt on those two generations. These large banks have screwed these two generations and convinced them that they have to have what's in your wallet to exist. Here are boys and girls. Let me tell you what's in Samuel Jackson's wallet. A little wagon behind him pulling all the money he made from them commercials selling you crap. That's what's in his wallet. It's unbelievable. Same thing with the guy, the Capital One guy or whatever is.

Starting point is 01:00:38 Oh, yeah, the tall guy, yeah. He does not live in the bank. If you didn't know, he doesn't really live there, okay? Yes. This is unbelievable, y'all. So these companies, car companies, you know, 20% of the cars that left a lot last month were over $1,000 a month car payments. If you do that and you have record credit card debt and you have record student loan debt,

Starting point is 01:01:03 of course you can't afford a house because you got screwed. That's true. You got screwed by higher education. A stupid Congress keeps making these loans. You got screwed by Capital One. Yes. You got screwed by Ford and Lexus credit because you got to have a car. You have a nice car.

Starting point is 01:01:21 I have to have something safe for my children. oh, you're killing me. And, and, okay, I'm a, I'm a stand right. I'm a stand with you and I'm also going to stand on the other side because there's that. None of that's helping you, right? If you have, if you have the debt. You cannot buy a house with that. You can't.

Starting point is 01:01:38 And you never have been able to buy a house with that. And you never have. Yes. And then there's also the side of it. Record levels. There's also the side of it where you look at it. You go, okay, uh, 415 is the median. So even if you're like, hey, I'm going to be on the conservative side. I'm looking at like 375.

Starting point is 01:01:53 right i'm i'm going to spend around 375 if you make 90 000 dollars which is over over over average over median uh over average over average not over median uh you're still going to have because the interest rates and because of price you're still going to have to put down way more than the 20 you know than the the the 10 percent yeah but here's the thing the percentage that we would say so you're still up against it yeah but you're but that's not first time homebuyers $415,000 is not first-time homebuyers. $415,000 of the median of all homes per sale, including mine. Yeah, everything considered.

Starting point is 01:02:32 So if you take first-time homebuyers, we talk to the 34-year-olds that stand on this stage and say, I'm debt-free, I just paid off my house. Yes. How'd you do that? I live in a town where $275,000 or $200,000 buys a lot of house. A lot of house, yes. And I make a $1,000. $60, $70,000 a year, $80,000 a year, and I bought a house for $200,000 and I worked my butt off and I paid it off.

Starting point is 01:02:58 Yes. And it is not fancy. Yes. And the town is not fancy. Yes. And the car they're driving is not fancy. And so, you know, but so if you don't, yes, you cannot, on an average income, you cannot buy a median price house.

Starting point is 01:03:14 You can. That is true. By the way, I don't think it's ever been true. It's not been true. I'm simply saying that both sides of it are true. If you get to the point like the guy in your Instagram thing where you're over dramatizing it, then you're never going to find the solution. Right.

Starting point is 01:03:29 That's my point. Oh, I agree with that. We can acknowledge. And that's really kind of what your book is about. Yes. Yeah. But debt is certainly not helping you. So don't get screwed by these big companies and set your sights on a first time home purchase.

Starting point is 01:03:44 Yes. Not a median home price purchase. And it might take you longer than you thought. that's okay too it took sam and i and it's in the book 10 years dade before we bought our first house oh that's distressing so that's why i get to say that you want me to wait 10 years well you got to do what you got to do to be able to afford it there's my point statistics show that half of americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't have any at all i don't understand this john why don't people want to take care of their family they

Starting point is 01:04:35 think they're going to die or something? Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. And I immediately went and got term life insurance. That's a gut punch. And oh, you're telling me, and for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. Me too. They don't know what to do next. Me too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And, you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this properly and not mess this up or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

Starting point is 01:05:09 That's exactly right. These are the two options. And take care of your dadgum family, man. Term life insurance can replace income, pay off dads, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad, to just miss you. That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying, I love you to your family, term life insurance. Jeff Zander and the team of Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years.

Starting point is 01:05:33 They're the only people I trust. Go to Xander.com or call 800-356-4282. Ari is in Washington, D.C. Hi, Ari, how are you? I'm good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Yeah, so I just had a couple of changes with my income in the past like 14 days and it's all coming down on me at once. So I'm trying to figure that out on top of the fact that I don't think my job is going to be the best fit for me moving forward. So what was the change in your income?

Starting point is 01:06:36 So I was originally making about $4,500 a month, but on top of my hours being cut back down to normal, taking away my overtime. because they were short staff and now it's not short staff. So they cut the hours plus I signed up for the family insurance to cover the family. So that's taken a lot out now. So what's your income down to? So my income is down to about 3,774. What do you do? Monthly.

Starting point is 01:07:18 So right now I am a banker. A banker. You like work in the branch? Yes, I do. I work in the branch as a teller. Okay. Oh, okay. You're a teller.

Starting point is 01:07:35 And it's you and your family of how many? It's my wife and my staff son. Okay. Does she work? What does she make? She doesn't make anything right now. She just finished a CNA program in D.C. So she's waiting to hear back for the clinicals part, and then she'll start applying for jobs there.

Starting point is 01:08:00 Meanwhile, she just had an interview today at a bar down the street. So she's going to try and do either serving or bartending. So meanwhile, we've just been doing a door dash to keep things going. Okay. And does the door dash fill the gap to get you back to the 4,500 you were used to? No. We lost you. You're going to speak into your phone, son. Okay, yeah, sure. Can you hear me now?

Starting point is 01:08:28 Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Okay. So, yeah, part of the reason was I was getting 1,100 as well from a vocational kind of military educational benefit. Oh, okay. But I failed one of the classes, so they haven't paid the next term. So I found that out like about a week ago, so I got it. So you're used to $5,600 a month, and now you're down to $37. Thereabout, yes, ma'am. Okay.

Starting point is 01:08:59 And- How did you fail the class? It was, I just was trying to do too much because I was doing the job, and then I had Uber. I was doing Uber and everything, but then the registration came due like this week, actually. so yeah but I mean you knew you were failing the class when you quit the Uber and pass the class just 1100 bucks a month that's more than over and it was just it was just it was just it was just poor kind of poor time management I think to be honest yeah I think it was yeah tell us about your living situation are you are you renting and or do you own something how and how much

Starting point is 01:09:42 do you pay a month we're renting and it's about it's about it honestly been going up the last three months, but this month it was 2000. Ooh, yeah, it's tight. Okay, so 100% of everything we're talking about is income problems. And I understand how we got to every one of the different pieces of it now. Thank you for giving us a clarity on that. And so the answer is going to be 100% fix on the income side. And I don't know exactly what that is for you right now, but your answer is, you know,

Starting point is 01:10:20 Figure out if you can get the military to give you a waiver and restart the class and go retake that class. And maybe you can get a pass on that one and get them to give you a little grace and see if they'll do that. See if they have a program for a review on that and get that going again. And this time past the freaking class, of course, never do that again. And then the second thing is, what are you going to do to create income? Because it sounds like you need a new job, dude. Doesn't it? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:10:52 Yeah. And I am looking at things. I was thinking about going into security for the meantime. The ultimate goal, ironically enough, is that I want to go into the financial sector. I hope it's not technology. He said financial sector. Okay. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:11:11 Speak into the phone. You keep dropping the phone or something. I don't know. All right. So, yeah, you've got to create income, Ari. Got to. And she does, too. Both of you, together.

Starting point is 01:11:21 have to do this. Yeah. And it's not, I mean, the first thing you do is get enough money to eat and keep the lights on. And that's bartending and Uber and those kinds of things. But those are not long-term fixes. No. It's not a life. You can't do that forever.

Starting point is 01:11:34 It's not your way of life. Side hustle is not a way of life. And so what we want to do then is create a career path that's going to take you both to get that CNA stuff past. Get that income will be a lot more than bartending. She's got her path is there. She's just got to see it through to the end. You've got to get there as fast as we possibly can.

Starting point is 01:11:52 We don't want to stub our toe on that. And then you've got to figure out exactly where you're going and what your steps are to get there. So we're going to send you Ken Coleman's book, finding the work you're wired to do. It has in it an assessment. I recommend you take that. But you need to get very laser focused on where you're going and exactly what the steps are to get there because you cannot wallow in this. You do not have the mathematical time you've got to move forward. Alex is in Baltimore. Hey, Alex, how are you?

Starting point is 01:12:23 Good afternoon, Dave. Good afternoon, Jake. You're on your new book. Thank you. So my question is, my wife and I have been married for 18 years. We have two teenage children, and I recently started a new job where I am getting paid about 60% more than my last job. Yay! That's awesome. Thank you. Thank you. What are you doing? I'm, well, I actually, I am running a small trade association.

Starting point is 01:12:50 Cool. And what are you being paid? 300K. Way to go. Way to go, dude. Congratulations. Thank you. So, really what I'm doing right now is I'm looking for advice from you both on how I can pay off our remaining debt in order to, and words that you've used before, Dave, level up.

Starting point is 01:13:13 There you go. Good stuff. Well, you know, we're going to walk you right through the baby steps. It sounds like you know them. Where are you? At this point, you know, I have, I put aside the thousand, as you recommended, and I am targeting now the deaths that we have. But I'm debating on, and one of the questions I have is should I be targeting based on the avalanche method or the snowball method? How long have you been listening to us? listening slash reading for a little bit of time. You got to know. A hundred percent of the time. It's a snowball. It's a snowball.

Starting point is 01:13:47 It's a snowball. And the reason is very simple. The probability of completion is much higher when you get feedback. Okay. And probability completion on the avalanche is very low. Most people don't complete it. Avalanche is highest interest rate to smallest. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:14:02 The highest interest rate to smallest. People say it's mathematically correct. It's not actually mathematically correct when you add in probability of completion. which is a math factor. Okay. Okay. And so snowball, simple. How much debt have you got, not counting your house?

Starting point is 01:14:17 Not counting the house. That's easy. It's about 90K. On what? Admittedly, 11 of it is student loans, and the rest is consumer debt and a consolidated loan. One loan? Yes, sir. Wow.

Starting point is 01:14:35 Was it cars in there? No, sir. We don't have any car payments. We haven't had a car payment in about 17 years. So you just put everything on credit card then? Oh, my God. Without getting into the gory details, we had to make some decisions, yeah. But you're used to living on 140, right?

Starting point is 01:14:54 A little bit more than that, yeah. Okay, 150. My math might not be mathing, as you said. That's all right. But you said you got a 60% increase, so let's just pretend it was only 50%. And you put it all on the debt. Yeah, there you go. You're done in a year.

Starting point is 01:15:07 Okay. You're going to feel it because you're not going to be living the life you think you should be living at 300,000. Woohoo. Oh, crap. Yeah. In the same breath. Oh, crap. I don't get to use any of it.

Starting point is 01:15:18 I've got to clean up the mess from my past. Been there. The calendar might have flipped, but the way to win with money hasn't changed. Living on a budget. Staying out of debt and building wealth intentionally. Now, here's the deal. Most banks make their money when you don't do that. They're fine if you stay broke and frustrated.

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Starting point is 01:17:16 You'll get personalized, recommend. and coaching for your situation based on what you're actually doing in the app. And that'll help you free up more money and work the plan faster. It's like having one of us walking with you every day, showing you the next right step. Start every dollar for free, download it in the app store or Google Play. Chuck is with us in Montana. Hi, Chuck. How are you?

Starting point is 01:17:36 Montana, California. That's different. What's up, Chuck? How are you? Hey, Chuck. Dave, doing better than I deserve. How are you, sir? Just the same.

Starting point is 01:17:46 How can we help? Hey, just want to thank you for your book, The Total Money Makeover. My mom gave that to me. It seems like almost 20 years ago now, but really pulled me out of a lot of debt and bad financial decisions. Well, so today, I'm 40 years old, engaged to be married in a couple of months. Good. And it's my mom and I in my house. I owe another 140 left on the house.

Starting point is 01:18:22 I have a sizable cash savings. What I want to do, so we're going through marriage counseling. The elder in our church is really pushing us to live alone for at least the first year. I like your elder. Mm-hmm. Me too. Mom doesn't have anywhere to go. She's retired. So this was my plan, and you could tell me how steep it I am, but to use the cash I have to buy another home, and my mom has enough, she gets enough retirement to maintain the current home. Is she ill?

Starting point is 01:19:12 No. How old is she? She is 67. She'd not have any money? She just has her union pension and then Social Security. What's it total? That's about $2,200 a month. And the house, did you guys buy it together,

Starting point is 01:19:37 or is it totally your name you pay for everything? It's all mine. Okay. What do you make it? It's a range, but my base pay is 150, but it swings wildly up to about 180. And your fiancé? Your fiancé makes what? About $72,000 a year.

Starting point is 01:20:02 Okay. Okay. Number one, your elder is correct. You do not need to be having a brand new marriage with your mom in the house. She's 67 years old. She's not 88 years old. she's not an Alzheimer's patient. She's not, she just needs to have a life, okay?

Starting point is 01:20:25 Be good for her, be good for you, and it'll certainly be good for your relationship. Good, good counsel. I like your counsel. Okay. That's number one. So then how to, then that's your, you're in agreement. You're not arguing about that. So your question is, how do we get there most logically?

Starting point is 01:20:43 All right. So there's two things. There's one is how do we solve the short term? And then two is what is, what is a plan? that is sustainable because likely if she's in good health in 67, I mean, we probably have a 20-year or a 30-year time horizon here for her, right? I understand. Yes.

Starting point is 01:21:06 And so what is it we're going to put in place that she can sustain her life during that period of time? And then you get to have a life and you love her. You want to take care of her. But she doesn't have to come under your roof ever necessarily. And I don't think that you have the funds to float two homes. Yeah, you have the income to help her float an apartment for herself. And the two of you either live in this house or you sell it and buy a home that the two of you want,

Starting point is 01:21:37 the two of you being your fiancé, not your mother. And I think some autonomy for her would give her more dignity and you as a well, it's going to be super healthy for your relationship with your fiance, your wife. And, yeah, you have to do that. And so, but no, I would not, I would not buy today. I would just rent her something. And if you need to help her with the rent, fine. Now, if you did that, and she moved to a nice, you know, a nice, one-bedroom condo that you rented for her. That's just out-of-pocket for the rent. That's not much money, okay, comparatively versus buying a home, okay, for cash.

Starting point is 01:22:28 Now, would you all then live in this house, Chuck, or would you all sell this house? No, my mom would live out her days in the current home. No, that's not what I said. We're suggesting you get her a condo. Oh, well, so the elder. was saying that try to do a year where it's just you and the wife. And then if if circumstances changed and mom has to move back in, that might be okay. It's not optimal. But we just, we need that one year alone. Yeah, you do. That's, that's bare minimum is what he's saying. And what we're

Starting point is 01:23:07 suggesting is don't buy a house for one year. Yeah. And and if you can, and if you can live as a couple, indefinitely, you should live as a couple indefinitely, is what I'm saying. Like I said, the house is worth 550. I owe 140 on it. I currently have saved up 130. If your mom was in a one-bedroom, nice apartment that you were helping her rent instead of in this house, would you and your fiancé stay in this house? Yes. Okay. Let's talk about doing that. That's what I would do. If I were in your shoes, that's what I would do. She's not sick.

Starting point is 01:23:47 There's nothing that you need to be there to take care of her. She's 67. She's my age. She's got a whole life. I'm 65, okay, come on. Yeah. No. Listen, yes.

Starting point is 01:23:56 And you've got to. Okay, here's what I'm thinking, Dave. I'm thinking I'd get a job. And you got to get. 67. Yeah. And but Chuck, you got to separate from your mom is what I'm saying, buddy. That's all.

Starting point is 01:24:09 Big time. Otherwise, that's going to cause problems with the wifey, the new wife. You need physical separation. and emotional separation. Y'all have been, you're 40 years old, you're just getting married. There's nothing more evil about this. But this is, your elder is giving you very good relational counsel. Except the part of a year minimum.

Starting point is 01:24:27 I would just say, period. Yeah. And then, but your fiance knows at some point, maybe you'll have to take care of your mom. Maybe you have to take care of her mom. Yeah, maybe. We don't know. You never know, yes. We don't know what's coming up.

Starting point is 01:24:39 But that's for better, for worse. That's for rich or for poor. That's for in-laws in the basement and all that, yeah. And so, yeah. So, but I'm not going to plan to be right back here in 18 months. No, that's scary. Listen, if that was, if she, if your fiancee was calling me, I'd tell her not to marry you. 100%.

Starting point is 01:25:00 Unless you had a plan for mom to stay gone. Yes. If she called in and said my fiance. Once to have my, his mom moved back in in 18 months, I would say, nah, that's a pass. Hard pass. We would. Yeah. I think your elders being very sweet to you, but also giving you good advice.

Starting point is 01:25:16 Yeah. Yeah, very nice. So anyway, we're going to be a little tougher. We're going to be a little tougher on your buddy. And it doesn't mean you don't love your mom. It just means that this is the design is for you to go off and start your life. Let me just tell you, the chances of Rachel Cruz letting me move in with them at any point in me breathing. The only chance I move in with them is in an urn on the mantle.

Starting point is 01:25:39 That's the only way I'm moving in with Rachel. I'm just saying. And even still, you're in the laundry room. You're in the pool house. I'm in the pool house. Rocking the pool house. I want to be in the sauna. Oh, boy.

Starting point is 01:25:53 Oh, boy. No, it's not happening. The Ramsies have pretty firm boundaries on this stuff. They're pretty strong. That's very good. We love each other at a distance. Yes. Wow.

Starting point is 01:26:07 Yes. Oh, Chuck, I think you've got good people in your life, son, And then you've got a sweetheart and you're a good man and you've got a good job taking care of your mom. And by the way, she's only 67. It'd be awesome if she went and had a thing called Life. 67 is the new 47. Yeah, I promise you. I'm looking at it in the mirror.

Starting point is 01:27:06 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Jade Warshall, number one bestselling author, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Her new book lands on the street today. It's out what no one tells us. you about money. The key to getting unstuck from someone who's been there, done that, and got the yellow T-shirt. There it is. Love it. Open phones here at AAA-825-5-2-2-25. Blake is in Rochester, New York. Hey, Blake, how are you?

Starting point is 01:27:38 Hey, Dave. I'm excited, but I'm also a little nervous and a little scared right now. So I just wanted to get your feedback. We'll give it a shot. How can we help, brother? All right, so about six months ago, I bought a car in cash, and about two days ago, the engine blew up. Oh, no. I don't have a car right now. I spent $10,000 on the car, and I can sell it for about $1,000 right now. What kind of car is this? It's a Chevy Malibu.

Starting point is 01:28:07 What happened to the engine? There's a crack piston in it, so. Wow. That's the issue, yep. Yeah, how many miles did it have on it when you bought it? They had 109,000 miles on it. Wow, that's unusual. Yep, yeah, it's just unfortunate.

Starting point is 01:28:26 That's the situation. Yeah, so you have any money? I have about $5,000 in cash. Excellent. Fix the car. Fix the car. Well, you don't sell a $10,000 car for $1,000 when it needs, all it needs is a used engine in it. Yeah, what will that cost?

Starting point is 01:28:44 You go to a salvage yard and buy an engine, a used engine. So I have a couple of buddies that are mechanics. The used engine is going to cost between $1,500 and $2,000, and the labor is going to cost about $2,000 to $3,000. That's a bit heavy. But, yeah, but I mean, my question is, do I spend, like, 60, 70% of the car's value then? Yes. To fix it up.

Starting point is 01:29:09 Yes. Here's why, okay? If you sell it for $1,000 now, you take a $9,000 loss. If you put $6,000 into it plus the $1,000, that's $7,000, you could turn around and sell it the next day for $10,000. I think I could only sell it for about $65,000 if it had nothing wrong with it because it has 130,000 miles on it. I drive a lot now. I don't think a $10,000 car lost 35% of its value in the period of time we're talking about what the miles we're talking about. Is there anything else wrong with it aside from that vehicle?

Starting point is 01:29:45 very, very used car. Okay? It's not lost that much in value. Besides that, you're still talking about you would at least get your money back. You know, you'd at least get out of it. And so, no, I think you can get more for it than their repairs. I think you've got to work on your repair cost, get your repair cost as low as you can possibly get it in the labor and in the engine. The engine didn't sound wrong to me.

Starting point is 01:30:07 The labor did sound wrong. And so because what you got to do is you got to do this on the cheap. It's a cheap freaking car. So we're not, you know, you're not going to the dealer and putting a $15,000 engine in the thing. And so, so we're going to fix it. And then the only question is, do we keep it? Okay. You got $5,000 so you can fix the thing.

Starting point is 01:30:31 I mean, you've got the money to fix it. And you got to, you have to. You don't have a choice. Otherwise, you're going to get destroyed here. And, and you may have a really serviceable car. What, what, do you happen to know what the engine? engine is? Yeah, it's a turbo engine, four-cylilinear.

Starting point is 01:30:50 A four-s, okay. Yeah, but the Malibu will hold a six or an eight, won't it? There's not a lot of space. I mean, I don't know, it would be tough to put a six or eight in there. Okay. I'm not seeing that model in my head very clearly, obviously. Okay. So anyway, yeah, if I put a four back in it, then it may be an engine that, you know,

Starting point is 01:31:14 a little four-cylinder that's cheaply built, if that's the version of Malibu we're dealing with here, then it may be something you fix and get rid of, okay? Okay. But I would try to buy something that has, if I'm spending $10,000 that has a lot more life than a worn-out four-cellar engine on 110,000 miles, okay? Now, again, that depends on the vehicle and what we're dealing with here,

Starting point is 01:31:42 but, you know, you need to research and say, okay, what percentage of four-cylinder malibus are blowing a dadgun piston? And now I'm thinking, okay, see, I've got old Malibu's in my head. I'm old. That's my problem. I'm thinking of an old, but that's a different car. So, okay, anyway, yeah, I'm still going to fix this as cheap as possible because I think you can sell it for more than the cost of the repairs plus the salvage in this case,

Starting point is 01:32:11 even if you turn around and sell it and buy something different. Then in the future, you're going to pay cash for something that has a lot of life left in it. Okay? And I'll use an example. A $10,000 Honda Accord would have a lot of life left in it, regardless of how many cylinders it is. Okay? A $10,000 Dodge Neon might not. Nothing.

Starting point is 01:32:37 Okay? Like I would not do that ever. So as an example. So you've got to kind of think through, you know, how well, you know, how many of the old version of this car do we see on the highway? That's what I do. Toyota Camry's, you know, I mean, that's what we're dealing with here. And pickup trucks, you know, that kind of stuff. What is it that you see around?

Starting point is 01:32:57 Then you know it's got some longevity to it. It's got, you know, when you're buying a $10,000 car, because all you're buying is transportation. We're not buying sex appeal or fancy. Yeah. We're just trying to get there. That's all. Don't buy a. So.

Starting point is 01:33:09 Malibu or a Jeep compass. Ooh, please don't do that, yeah. Apparently don't buy a Malibu. Don't buy a Mercury mystique. Oh. Did you do that? Did you do that?

Starting point is 01:33:22 I didn't. Oh, good. I'm done dumb. I've done dumb things, not that dumb. I'm glad. You didn't do the mystique. The mistake. The mistake.

Starting point is 01:33:29 The Mercury mistake. Yeah. Wow. I remember those. That was a long time ago. Yeah. Wow. So, okay, let's talk about that for a second, guys.

Starting point is 01:33:38 So here's the thing. That is not a way of life that we would sign you up for. Yes, I'm glad you said that. That is a step on the journey of life. Okay? And the step is I'm going to drive like no one else so that later I can drive like no one else. I'm going to wear clothing like no one else so that later I can wear clothing like no one else. I'm going to vacation, not at all, so that later I can vacation like no one else.

Starting point is 01:34:08 I'm going to go to restaurants, not at all, so later I can go to restaurants like no one else. It's not a way of living. It's a sprint to get your butt out of the land of broke. Yeah, motivating you to go faster. When you buy a car that is just a get-around car or worse than his car, a hoopty, you buy the $2,000 hoopty. So Joe that works here, you know Joe. Yeah. when it was a point when Joe was working here, not this Joe, different Joe, that Joe was going to drop me off at the car dealership to pick up my car.

Starting point is 01:34:45 It was being serviced. Okay. He pulls around front in a Ford 1994 Granada. Oh. Oh, God. Land yacht. Oh, wow. It originally had been red, but now it was slightly more like pink.

Starting point is 01:35:02 Pink. Oh. I got in the thing. The interior was pristine. He bought it from his grandmother for $700. It had 20,000 miles on it. She only drove it on Sundays. It had 20,000 miles on it.

Starting point is 01:35:17 He drove this horrible car. Wow. For a period of time so that now Joe drives whatever Joe wants to drive. I'm sure he does, yes. And as well he should. All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy. house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy

Starting point is 01:36:02 and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you at Ramsey Solutions.com slash agent. That's Ramsey Solutions.com slash a... Caleb is in Jackson, Mississippi. Hi, Caleb. How are you? Doing great. How are you all? Better than I deserve. How can we help? All right, well, I've got a two-part question here. The first part is I'm getting married in two months. Congratulations.

Starting point is 01:36:53 Thank you. Me and my future wife are asking about specific joint accounts we should be putting together. And then the second part, she is currently in vet school. And so we're racking on about $120,000 a student loan. So how she would go about attacking that now? Okay. Is she just starting it or she's finishing up? She's just starting her second semester, so she's three and a half years left. So you're planning to go into debt on this versus trying to avoid going into debt on this? Currently, yes.

Starting point is 01:37:29 Okay. We're going to come back and talk about that. Let's talk about the accounts that you're talking about combining. That was your first question, correct? Yes. Okay. So you need a checking account that you're both paid into. Both of your monies come into there. That's the account that you do all your business out of. You pay your bills out of it. You get groceries out of it. It's connected to your every dollar account. You need that. You're probably going to need sooner than later a high yield savings account where you would keep your $1,000 emergency fund or where you would keep your three to six months of expenses. Something along those lines is going to be what you need. And that's really the main few things that's going to get you started. It's all you need. We have one checking account in my home. Yeah. I don't have one one checking account. That's it. And that's, that's really it. Further along, you might do some other things, but right now that's really it. I want to come back

Starting point is 01:38:27 and talk about these student loans because if I can keep you from going into $120,000 of debt, I want to do that. Are you already 120 in or you think you're going to go 120 in? So we get about, it's about $30,000 a year, and so we're on track to, I think it will be around that by the time it's over. I'm currently in some freelance work, so I'm trying to figure out how to up my income so that we can tackle that while it's so low. So what is your career, sir? I am in sports broadcasting. Okay, and what do you make? Right now, it varies depending on how many games there are, but around the 2 to 4,000 a month.

Starting point is 01:39:18 But I do have about four days a week that are open, so I'm currently looking for another thing to actually make this more of a career, not just a hobby. Right. I'm glad you realize right now it's kind of a part-time hobby. Yeah, good. Okay. And how old are you? I'm 23. Cool.

Starting point is 01:39:36 And do you have a four-year degree? I do. I have a bachelor's of business administration. Okay. All right. Let's go get a business thing moving, and the sports broadcasting be a side hustle, because obviously the games are very seldom, if ever, during the day, okay, a weekday. And so let's go get it like a job, in other words, and get your household income up considerably. And then I bet you could come close to, if you guys lived on beans and rice, come close to cash flowing vet school, Right? Absolutely. Yeah. I think that's the plan rather than plan to go into debt and develop a strategy on how to deal with this debt that I'm planning to go in.

Starting point is 01:40:19 Instead, let's plan not to go into it. How old is she? She's 22. 22. Okay. Well, I mean, a commender for being in vet school. Number one, there's very few people that make it into vet school and make it out of that are not smart people. It's a very, very rigorous curriculum. It's very tough.

Starting point is 01:40:42 You know, versus a medical doctor has to learn one body and one set of anatomy and so on. You know, vets have to learn a bunch of them. I mean, it's crazy. And so, and they make really, really good money out the back side of this, potentially. Usually. Corporate has kind of invaded that space, and it's not as good as it used to be. But I've known veterinarians who made lots of. more than doctors over the years, MDs. And so, you know, I think it's a great field of study. But what I'm

Starting point is 01:41:13 going to do, if I'm the two of you is I'm going to figure out a way to live on nothing, make a pile of money and cash flow this puppy. I agree. And that's exactly how I would get at this. Hey, and we'll set you up on every dollar as our wedding gift to you guys and get you set up free on it so you can get going. And the two of you sit down and do that budget and follow that stuff process. But man, If I'm you, I'm leaning in hard on the career side of things. And I'm going to continue to work the side hustle because that's the dream is to go that way. Yes. But I've been in broadcasting for 40 years and I know a lot of sports broadcasters that don't make a living.

Starting point is 01:41:50 Wow. They don't make a living if they're local. Okay. I mean, national guys, national gals that you know, they make a living. And a few of the folks, you know, your local television station, maybe that guy or gal makes a living. Okay. But broadcast in local high school games, you don't make a living. Broadcasting small town college games, you don't make a living.

Starting point is 01:42:09 Okay. That's a side gig. And so until you get that break up into a home other level and either end up on your local television station or some kind of a situation where you're able to, you know, actually monetize your sports knowledge, it may take a while. And so in the meantime, I'm going to go make some money and pay cash for my wife's vet school. And if you're a person similar to Caleb and you're kind of on this crest of, I see dead in the future, but we haven't done it yet, you don't have to go down the path. Yeah. Right. If you're listening right now and your car's just broke down and you're thinking, I got to go to the dealership and get a new car, you don't have to do that. You don't have to put the repair for your refrigerator on the credit card.

Starting point is 01:42:59 You don't have to take out the student loan. You can stop for a minute and think. What else could I do? What else could I do? You're not... If debt was not an option, what would I do? And that's the way you need to think of it. And then you start to become a lot more creative,

Starting point is 01:43:12 and you start to realize you probably have more time than you're giving yourself credit for. It may not be as urgent as it feels. It may feel very urgent, but when you stop and think about it, maybe there's some time there that you can take to seek out some other options. So that's just for somebody who's listening in their car right now, or sitting on the couch listening to this thinking about going to take out debt to solve a problem. You know, that is a valid thing. And I forget that sometimes because years ago, I just said, I don't borrow money.

Starting point is 01:43:43 Yeah, no more. And so since I don't borrow money, it never occurs to me to fix an opportunity that's in front of me with debt or a disaster that's in front of me with debt. And I, so I will never be able to say the words. I was forced to go into debt because I just, we're just, you know, the car's just going to be in the driveway broken. Yeah. Refrigerator. We're just going to get some ice in a cooler, I guess. Uh-huh.

Starting point is 01:44:08 Because we can't do that. We don't borrow money. And so what are we going to do? I mean, I remember when Sharon and I were coming out of bankruptcy and we were so broke, we couldn't pay attention. I mean, we had nothing. We had just filed bankruptcy. And the stinking roof on the house starts to link it, leaking. and worse than leaking, it's going through the light fixture over the kitchen table.

Starting point is 01:44:31 Oh, yeah. And so water coming through electricity. It's not good. This is like a fire hazard, right? And it's dripping on our kitchen table to remind us. Every day. It's like, you're a failure, you're a failure, you're a failure, you're a failure, you're a failure, you're a failure. You're a failure dripping on my kitchen table.

Starting point is 01:44:44 And I feel shame like nobody's business because I've just gone through bankruptcy, right? And I'm like, and I can't afford to put a roof on a house. I don't have any money. So, and I don't borrow money. And nobody would have loan me money anyway. I just got out of bankruptcy, right? Somebody would have probably, but I'm not the other thing. I was done.

Starting point is 01:45:01 So all I did, I just went down to the hardware store and got some of that black tar stuff. And, I mean, just looked like white trash. I just went up and poured it on top of the house. Do whatever you have to do to make it work. And it stopped leaking. Yeah. And then when we put a roof on the house about a year later, I made a little bit of money and I got to where I could breathe, you know.

Starting point is 01:45:20 And I put a roof on the house. The roofers like, what happened? to your roof. Who did that? And I'm like, I'm not even going to talk about it. I'm not even going to talk about it. Just shovel that stuff off of there and put a roof on it, buddy. That's just how it works. That's the way it goes down. Yes. And you have to, you know, we teach the baby steps. But the first you have, if you don't mentally walk yourself through the step, you're missing out. You have to decide, I am not borrowing money anymore. The same way you decide, hey, I don't rob banks, I don't steal cars. I don't, you know, whatever that moral decision. You know, you have to decide. I am done.

Starting point is 01:45:54 or whatever. I don't borrow money. It's just a way of life. I don't burn villages. I don't plunder. Yeah. I don't borrow money. When you're stuck in a cycle with your money, try, feel, try again. It can feel like you're losing your mind, but you're not alone and you're not crazy. That's why I wrote my brand new book, what no one tells you about money. It turns out money is emotional and no one's been talking about feelings like fear, shame, or guilt keeping you stuck. Until now, I'm going to tell you about the real fight and show you how to win. Get your copy today at ramsysolutions.com slash store. That's ramsysolutions.com slash store.

Starting point is 01:47:11 Dale is in Greenville, South Carolina. Hi, Dale. How are you? Barry and I deserve. Happy New Year. How can we help? So I got a job offer. I'm a paramedic.

Starting point is 01:47:26 I got a job offer. It is a contract position on a year-to-year basis with a three-year projection. And I'm having a really hard time deciding if I should take that or stick with my current employer. Is it also in paramedic? Yes. Okay.

Starting point is 01:47:44 So you're staying in the same field. The only question is you're going to go contract. Now, when you go contract, do you lose all your benefits? I will lose my benefits with my current employer. I will get benefits on the contract position. However, they're not as good. Okay. And what are you being paid now? Currently, well, I work, the hours, I don't work 40-hour work weeks. I work average 56-hour work weeks, and I'm about 85 a year.

Starting point is 01:48:15 Okay. This job would be about average 42. It's 84 hours a week, but one week on, one week off. And so it's about 95, 96 a year. Okay. So it's a better quality of life. Yes. And it's more money. It is.

Starting point is 01:48:38 Okay. Is there anything wrong with the culture of the organization that you're thinking about joining? The municipality or whatever it is? No, not to my knowledge. They're good people. From what I've heard, from what I know, it's legit position. Why would you not do that? Yeah, what's the downside that you see?

Starting point is 01:49:00 stability? Is that the only downside? The stability, yes. So the likelihood of them not renewing your contract at the end of three years would be that they didn't need paramedics or you screwed up Christmas? Yes. That would be the likelihood. The other downsides, their 401K is like retirement benefits, stuff like that isn't nearly as good as my current employer. and on 36 I got You'll be okay though

Starting point is 01:49:31 You have it available to you and You're going to make 16 You're going to make more money And you've got more time off So you would do what a lot of people do in your world And that's start a side hustle on those off weeks, right? I could, yes I know a lot

Starting point is 01:49:45 I mean you're not going to sit on your butt five days a week Are you? No, I would just spend time with the kids Because I work 3,300 hours for the year of 2025 And Yeah, but I'm talking about This other thing is an average number of hours. Yes.

Starting point is 01:50:01 Yeah. Yes. And so. I would still do something. Yeah, I would have a side. I mean, I know a guy that's a fireman that he made $80,000 last year on the sidekick, you know, building decks. He has a deck building business, you know, and he just, he has people he subs it out to and he runs the jobs and goes over there when he's off work. And, you know, they're doing 72 on is what they're doing.

Starting point is 01:50:24 But the same kind of thing. You've got a lot of downtime, and so that's what I would do. How long has the other, why do they have a contract? Why don't they have just, why aren't they just hiring paramedics? Any idea? Because it's an on-site medical for a new construction. Oh. Projection construction.

Starting point is 01:50:47 So what happens if the construction runs out, you'd be out of a job. Correct. Will they assign you elsewhere? When the place is built. I'm sorry? Will they assign you to another site or is it just over over? That one would be over. However, if there's something around, I could pick something else up if I felt like traveling, which I'm not going to because I got kids.

Starting point is 01:51:17 That defeats the whole purpose. Yeah. Right. Okay. So what do you think the build out is on this thing? How long is it going to be? Yeah, when are they going to be done? Three years.

Starting point is 01:51:31 Oh, so you're out of a job in three years? For that one, I would be, yes. I mean, I could find another job pretty quick. The difference would be, you know, what's the pay going to be like? My question is, the people that are contracting you for this job, do they contract you for other jobs as well, or it's just that on that? they could contract me for other jobs i've never worked for them before though interesting i'd want to find that out and i'd want to if you know anybody who's worked with them i'd want to know

Starting point is 01:52:06 have they ever contracted you for other jobs or has it just been one thing and that's that i would want to know more about that because i gotta i gotta know where i'm going to land if i want to do this i got to know i'm going to land in three years they can absolutely uh contract me for another a job. It's a matter of location. I know. I want to know what that likelihood is that I'm going to still be able to do another contract at the end of three years. I got to see that. Otherwise, this is three and done. Three and done, this takes all the fun out of this. I would not do it for three and done. But three and done and I got a 90% likelihood of finding something within a 40-mile radius. Okay, good. I'm going with that. Oh, that's not, that's not a

Starting point is 01:52:56 problem. Finding another job in a 40-mile radius is not a problem. It may not be with them, but finding another position wouldn't be hard. Okay, so there's a shortage of paramedics in your area. Absolutely. Yes. Okay. Can I ask you a quick question? Did this job find you or did you seek it out? Like, were you saying, man, I got to get out of my current gig and you found this or how did it happen? almost a little bit of both. I was kind of looking at something else or trying to find what other what's something else that I might be able to do. And I did not find this one, a recruiter called me. Understood. All right. If you are, if you feel really good that you can land somewhere else in a reasonable 85 to 90 range or above at the end of three years that is tolerable without having to lose your life again or, or having to move your family, then this is a good deal.

Starting point is 01:53:53 If you don't feel good about that, then this is not a good deal. That's the way it comes down to. I agree. After all of this, all this round the barn twice, that's really what this comes down to. All right. Frank's in Daytona Beach, Florida. Hi, Frank. How are you?

Starting point is 01:54:09 Hi, Dave. Glad to get on the show. How are you today? Honored to have you, sir. How can we help? Thank you. Yes, sir. My wife and I have been married 40,

Starting point is 01:54:19 six great years, and we both work for large corporations, her for 28 years, me for 38, without changing anything, and pretty boring life, but we pulled it off. We raised three beautiful kids who are very successful. One of the issues that I have is that I have a nest egg of about $3 million, including a $500,000 house that's paid for, no bills, no debt. My question is, My daughter lives a few blocks away from us. My sons have moved away. They're working in their own occupations. And what I want to know is, is there any way without taking a big tax hit to get my money out of my IRA and stay below the Irma and federal income tax brackets?

Starting point is 01:55:13 I try to stay below the 24% bracket. because I'd like to gift at a house, but I would also like to get another house, a house that my wife and I would see the end of our lives in probably. When you pull the money out of the 401k, you've already analyzed what you're going to face there. You're going to have to keep it under the brackets and under Irma. And if you do that, you're going to minimize the taxes, but it's all taxable. As far as gifting the house goes, you can gift her the house. If you move out of this one, give her that house.

Starting point is 01:55:47 and you buy another one for cash, you can do that for zero taxes with the Unified Estate Tax Credit. You can listen to that later on the podcast. Unified Estate Tax Credit. You and your wife have $15 million each of federal estate tax exemption in the year 2026. You can use some of that against the gift tax and not have to pay gift tax on giving her the half million dollar house. with a unified estate tax credit. You have to fill out a form, not a big deal, and put an appraisal with it on the house, and then you've used up some of your $15 million each

Starting point is 01:56:28 that you have by giving her that half million. And that one's easy. The IRA, that one's tough. So you can see your tax attorney to figure that out or whoever does your taxes, if they're really good with taxes, they'll be able to do that in their sleep. Everywhere you turn right now,

Starting point is 01:57:05 you're being told a lie about money, that you can't get ahead, that you can't survive without debt. And those lies are keeping you broke. Don't buy into it. Yes, there's a lot of noise and chaos and confusion out there. But there's also hope. The truth is, you have more control than you think.

Starting point is 01:57:22 This year, it's time to take back your hard-earned money and your life. And it starts by joining our free live stream. On January 8th, me and Jade Warshot will show you how to go from chaos to clarity with your money. Help you break free from debt and change your family tree, all by using the all-new Every Dollar app, plus 10 people who sign up will win $2,000 cash. Don't let this be another year of I can't. Sign up for free at everydollar.com slash live stream. Our scripture of the day, James 122, do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves,

Starting point is 01:58:27 do what it says. Simon Seneca says communication is not about saying what we think. communications about ensuring others hear what we mean. Our question of the day is brought to you by Y-R-R-E-F-I. When it feels like your private student loans have buried your future, Y-R-R-E-F-I can help dig you out with low, fixed-rate refinancing and a clear path forward. Go to Y-R-R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey, not in all states.

Starting point is 01:58:57 Okay, today's question comes from Taylor in Washington. They say, we have our emergency fund and have started paying off our car and our credit card debt, selling anything off that we're not using or that's taken up space. We have two children under six, and I keep having to explain to them why we're not making trips to the dollar tree anymore, weekly trips to the dollar tree. My oldest noticed that I'm selling things and offered to let me sell some of her prized possessions because she thinks we need the money. My question is, when you were going through tough times with little kids, did you have an open discussion with them?

Starting point is 01:59:32 about what was going on. And if so, how did you have that conversation? You know, I might toss this to Dave a little bit because for me and Sam, it was just us. We didn't have little kids. It was us going through it. And nowadays, if I were teaching that lesson, and I feel like it's still something that you're ongoingly, you know, talking about.

Starting point is 01:59:53 For us, it really is just, number one, hey, every time we go out of the house, we don't have to buy something. Like, that's just kind of an ongoing thing. They don't expect to buy something every time we, we go out of the house. And then in my house, Dave, we're just really big on personal responsibility, period. So we have not had to address it in the way that she's having to address it. But I mean, immediately my mind goes to what Rachel Cruz says, which is share don't scare. Share what's going on. You know, we're selling the things we don't need. We're, you know, we're making good decisions

Starting point is 02:00:29 with our money, not if we don't make this payment, we're all going to be out on the streets, right? Like, you don't need to go to certain extremes that they can't understand anyway. You know, four and three and two-year-olds, they don't understand it anyway. Exactly. It would sound more like this. It would be, honey, it's so sweet that you would want to sell one of your things to help. And thanks for being part of the family and wanting to chip in like that. But I don't want you to have to do that.

Starting point is 02:00:53 This is something your dad and I are doing because we've realized that we had been doing some things wrong and we're starting to undo them. We're selling some stuff off. We're cleaning up some debt. We're managing our money more carefully. And so we're not spending as much as we used to and we're selling off some old things. But we're okay. Everything's fine. It's just a change. And don't let the change disturb you. But we're not going to the dollar store as much because we're trying to do this. And no, you don't need to sell off your stuff. I'm selling off mine. And your stuff's not, your stuff's okay. And the family's fine. Yeah, like you said, share don't scare. move off.

Starting point is 02:01:27 And it's just your tone and the weird thing is with little ones, and I just spent the week with our grandkids, less is more. They move on very quickly. In conversations. Like we want to go like get all philosophical and give them a seven-minute diatribe on it. And they wanted one sentence answers. Uh-huh. So they can move on.

Starting point is 02:01:50 Yeah. They really have something else to do. They're busy little people. I'm just saying. They do. Oh, boy. the truth. I mean, they just quick. I mean, I forget how short their attention span is. So, it's, you know, your tone, honey, dad and I are changing some things. We have been spending

Starting point is 02:02:07 too much and we're going to spend a little less and that includes the dollar store stuff. But we're selling off some stuff, but you're fine and family's fine. Matter of fact, we're going to be absolutely great because we're doing these things. And so it's a time to celebrate in a sense. And they usually completely change the subject. Can I have a snack? Yes. Yes. And move on. Don't use the word snack. That's like a, that's like a, it's like a I go lure in front of a fish. Yeah. All right, here we go.

Starting point is 02:02:32 Anne is in Portland, Oregon. Hi, Ann. How are you? Oh, my gosh. Happy New Year, Papa, Dave. Happy New Year. What's up? Is there going to be a Baby Step 5B with the new Trump accounts?

Starting point is 02:02:45 No. Are you sure? I'm sure. It's not that much money. Oh, but family can put in $5,000. Family can put in $5,000 into a $529. Yes, but this one can be a $529 and a Roth IRA. It can be anything.

Starting point is 02:03:09 Yeah, family can help with all that. No, I wouldn't use that. I would not be doing any of this. I'm a fan of some of the things the president is doing. I'm not a fan of some of the things the president is doing. And I think this is a political stunt. I really I'm not we're not doing any we're not no we're not changing for this it's not it's not that big a deal you've got other ways to save it's not as revolutionary as the original Roth was it's not

Starting point is 02:03:36 as revolutionary as the 529 is um it's none of those things and but it's a you know it's a way that somehow we can a thousand dollars you know and that kind of thing and yeah yeah you can add to it and family can add to it but just um it's just spreading around to money to get people's attention to a political office. I agree with that. I personally wouldn't do it. I wouldn't fool with it. I don't think it's worth the trouble.

Starting point is 02:04:01 If it was worth, if you could do a lot with it, it'd be one thing. But no, I appreciate the question, though. It's very interesting. Yeah, I looked at them and I kind of yawned. I don't think when you look at it. I don't think it's as big of a deal as people aren't making it out. And I would agree with you. It's just kind of like a, it's like a squirrel that you can chase squirrel.

Starting point is 02:04:20 Yeah. And it's like a money squirrel. Yeah. Yeah, something flashy to get your eye off or something else. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, there's worse things you could do, but there's also better things you could do. Oh, it's not horrible. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:04:32 It's just not, it's kind of like the Akerns app. Exactly. I can put in my spare change into an app. You can put your spare change in a jar. Yeah. But I mean, that's not going to make you rich. A nickel here or seven cents there, you're burning more calories than that. Screwing with this.

Starting point is 02:04:51 It's just crazy. The best thing, the best thing it will do is get people thinking about investing in general, which I think that's good because I think a lot of people go through life and don't really even think about, could I invest? Could I one day create? If it gets you off the couch and get you investing because you're, yeah. Yes. Then I'm game. Anything that gets you going to go on. Right. Almost anything. This is not bad. It's just not big enough to be great. A big deal. Yeah. It's not huge. That's good. I was going to make a joke. Yours was better. Landon is in Dallas. Hey, Landon. What's up? Oh, well, not much. How are you doing, Dave? Better than I deserve. How can we help? Fantastic. So my wife and I are both pet-free, and we are well on our way, just a couple of us away from our six-month emergency fund. And I am looking to start a, getting ready to start a hand-a-man-remodeled business with a friend from church. And I want to know what steps we should both take so that we are both protected from potentially dumb decisions. I would not form a partnership.

Starting point is 02:05:54 Okay. That's the step I would take. I would just say, you know, we're going to work on this job together. And if you want to split the profits, that's fine. After you've done 10 jobs that way, if you want to formalize it and say, I work for you or you work for me and the compensation is half the profits, but you own it or I own it, that's fine. Anything with two heads is a monster and the only ship that won't sell is a partnership. It's a good way to screw things up. There's no reason for this to be a partnership. except that you've got a guy you like and a guy you trust that you want to work with. You can do that on an employer-employee basis or you can do that on a one-job-at-a-time basis without forming a formal partnership. But we coach about 10,000 small businesses landed through Entree leadership. The number of small businesses that a partnership survives over 10 years is very close. It's well under 5%. 95% of them are gone.

Starting point is 02:06:52 The major exception would be. law firms and medical practices. They do partnerships a different way, different structure, and so on. And they're much more adept at it. But two guys in a construction business still partners after 10 years of doing it, almost zero. Two guys of heat and air business, almost zero. Two ladies in massage therapy, almost zero. You know, I mean, whatever the thing is that we need two of you.

Starting point is 02:07:16 It's okay. You don't have to have it. You can just be, I share profits with a lot of people here as if they're partners, but we don't have any partners. It's that simple. Good question. Good show, Jade. It's fun. Well, good show to the gang in the booth. Well done, booth people. That puts us our of The Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

The Ramsey Show - Hard Decisions Now Prevent Harder Consequences Later

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