The Ramsey Show - Hope Always Lives on the Other Side of Hurt

Episode Date: September 22, 2025

🤔 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Think you’re good with money? Take our Money in America quiz!⁠⁠⁠⁠ Ken Coleman and George Kamel answer your questions and discuss: "I owe my brother money after getting scammed from an investment course. Should I file bankruptcy?" "I'm 53 years-old and have nothing saved for retirement. Should we sell our house and start over?" "I'm 66 years-old, should I pull from my retirement savings to pay off debt?" "Can I pay to have my dog cremated even though I am in debt?" "My husband is wanting to give his daughter part of his 401(k) instead of giving me 100% as the beneficiary" "Should I pull back my hours a bit and give myself a break?" "How do I stay motivated when I feel restricted by living on a budget?" "Should I pile up cash if I'm facing job insecurity?" "Should I leave a job after less than a year?" Next Steps: ✔️⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Help us make the show better. Please take this short survey.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 weekdays from 2–5 p.m. ET or⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠send us an email⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. 📱 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Get episodes early in the free Ramsey Network app! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 📈⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Are you on track with the Baby Steps? Get a free personalized plan.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 🎟️ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Two Weekends. One Life-Changing Experience. Get away with your spouse in Nashville. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 💵 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 🛡️ ⁠⁠⁠Get trusted insurance coverage that fits your budget.⁠⁠⁠ Connect With Our Sponsors: Stop paying more and start shopping smarter at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ALDI⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Get 10% off your first month of⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ BetterHelp⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Boost Mobile⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to switch today! Learn more about⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Christian Healthcare Ministries⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Get started today with⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Churchill Mortgage⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Get 20% off when you join ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠DeleteMe⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Go to⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ FAIRWINDS Credit Union⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for an exclusive account bundle! Find top health insurance plans at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Health Trust Financial⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Use code RAMSEY to save 20% at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Mama Bear Legal Forms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Visit⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ NetSuite⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ today to learn more. For more information, go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠SimpliSafe⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Use promo code RAMSEY for 18% off at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Nokbox⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Get started with ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YRefy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or call 844-2-RAMSEY. Visit⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Zander Insurance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for your free instant quote today!  Explore more from Ramsey Network: 💸 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Ramsey Show Highlights⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 🧠 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Dr. John Delony Show⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 🍸 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Smart Money Happy Hour⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 💡 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Rachel Cruze Show⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 💰 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠George Kamel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 🪑 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 📈 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠EntreLeadership⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Ramsey Solutions is a paid, non-client promoter of SmartVestor Pros. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

brought to you by the every dollar app start budgeting for free today normal is broke and common sense is weird so we're here to help you transform your life from the ramsie network in the fair winds credit union studio this is the ramsie show alongside george camel i'm ken coleman we're thrilled to have you with us the phone number to jump in on the conversation today is AAA 8255-225. You're ready to go, Parker? I am ecstatic. I see you got your really fancy denim jacket on today. I saved the best for you. I appreciate you cleaning up. Let's go to Kathy in Texas. Kathy, how can we help? Hi, I'm 68 years old, and six months ago I got involved with an online investment group. I eventually borrowed $50,000 for my brother. He invested 110. I retired from my company. I took out all my 401k and pension. And last month, they ghosted us and froze our accounts, and we lost it all. I lost $487,000. My brother lost the 50 I borrowed and 110 he invested. And my brother would like his money. Oh, boy. And I have a house that's paid

off. I live in Texas, so I have a homestead on it. I have a $30,000 loan for American Express. rest. So I'm wondering, do I file bankruptcy? I tried to get a reverse mortgage, but my house, my husband died so my house is not in good enough condition. I'm just lost. Okay. Oh, absolutely. Not only you lost, I'm guessing you're just emotionally stunned. You know, that's an unbelievable. I'm devastated, really. Yeah, I'm so sorry. Is this scam still out there? it probably is i filed with you know fbi and all the agencies but they didn't have a whole lot of hope for me yeah it's rare that in these situations you get your money back so how much debt total do you have right now you said you have 30k on an american express card right that was a loan the other two

are 2000, maybe 3,000 total. So 33,000. So 33,000. And I know you retired recently. Yes. What is your, what does the future look like as far as work? Because that's, we absolutely have to consider that right now. Oh, I know. I've been applying, but like I said, I'm 68. I've had my job for 36 years. I did sales so I can do that. But I'm, you know. How long have you been out of the workforce? Since May, end of May. What about your past company? Have we called them up and told them what's going on? My job, once you quit, you're gone. I'm easily replaceable. Okay. Wow. Well, bankruptcy, you know, it will clear the American Express debt, but I don't think it's worth

bankruptcy over this. Yeah. Because you just, you lost your retirement money. You're not going to get that back. right and the pension as well so you took the pension out as a lump sum use that in the investment course took cashed out every dime of your retirement and threw it into this course correct all i have is two thousand dollars a month social security now what is your 500 i make 2 000 a month and then what was the other thing you were about to mention 500 something i promised my brother 500 a month well the promises are over i mean you don't have money sorry brother is on his own. We, you both got screwed in this, and so you just simply don't have the money to pay him back. Okay. I mean, he got you into this if I heard you correctly.

No, I got him. Oh, okay. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. That was just me kind of being on team Kathy, so I misunderstood. But no, you can't take care of a brother. Brothers got to take care of himself. You both made a poor decision, and now we got to figure out of it. You were what the bank would call a risky borrower. And so you borrowed this money, and he knew full well he might never see it again. He had faith in me, and I've never disappointed him before. Well, I hope you can pay him back one day, but it's not today. You're not going to be making him payments because you've got to put food on the table. Can you live off of $2,000 a month?

My bills really are $800 a month. plus food, and then my homeowner's insurance. So all in, what does it take to run your house for a month? Include food, include HOA, every single little thing? Yeah, pretty much 2,000. Okay. Okay, so you're just going to hopefully survive, and that's where getting a job is going to come into play. Listen, I'm going to tell you, I'm going to jump in real quick on the job thing

because I think coming off of something this emotionally difficult, one of the best things you can do is get to work. Now, I understand that you have been applying, but I think, you're going to have to take some opportunities that you wouldn't normally think about now. I mean, that's maybe Starbucks, Walmart, Target. I mean, you're functional, your former salesperson. We need income. And if we can get some benefits out of that, so I mean, you're doing everything you can. And your number one goal right now is to tell everybody your story. Now, this is very difficult. I understand what I'm saying. I completely understand what I'm asking you to do, which is to share your story. It is a thing that is, going to be difficult because you're ashamed, and I understand that. But you aren't the only person who has been duped before. And I think a 60-year-old lady who's a good person who has lived her life well, this is where we can't do this on our own. We cannot, Kathy, do this on our Right. No advice that George and I will give you is going to alleviate that fact. This is the time to go, everybody I know, here's my story. Here's what's going on. And this is what I got to do. And I think that there's nothing wrong with that because you need some kind souls to go, I'm going to help Kathy. And I'm going to give Kathy a job. That's what has to happen right now. what is your house worth

probably 350 for a flipper it's on paper what do you mean for a flipper you know if somebody came in and wanted to flip it and make some quick money on it if you listed it on the MLS on the market with a real estate agent what could you get for it well I asked and they said

375 to 425 okay so your house is worth about $400,000 I would keep it for now, try to stay afloat, try to get a job. And there's a worst case scenario here where five years from now, if you're out of options, you're unable to work for some reason. You could sell the house downsize and invest the difference to try to create a little bit of a nest egg. Well, that was why I was going to do the reverse mortgage route. No. I mean, they will just screw you with all of the fees. You're going to lose all of the

equity in your home. You know, it's a terrible horrible. financial product and they prey on desperate people like our friend Kathy to try to get them into these. Kathy, I'm going to ask a question to George on your behalf very quickly. George, I agree with what you said about the house, but I'm sitting here going, if I'm in her shoes at 68, I wonder if it's not a, is it a feasible idea to not sell the house now and take the entire proceeds and get that back in the retirement accounts to try to grow over the next five years.

As you said that, I just, what are your thoughts? Yeah, I mean, that was my initial thought was, could we just liquidate the house, invest every penny of it, and live off of the growth? There is risk there because we don't know what the market's going to do. I don't want her to live off of it. We don't know how long it will last. So that's why I want to see right now, can we create enough income and then use that, play that card later on down the road when necessary, instead of just going to that route

and then not working at all. That's my fear. So, Kathy, I'm so sorry you're going through this. I wish I had a magic wand and can just get these scammers to give you your money back. But the relationship with your brother, it's not going to be the same. The future you had, the retirement you dreamed of, it's not going to be the same. So you've got to grieve what was and just create a realistic picture of what comes next. Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens.

One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits. You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes. Yeah, and that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential, because it protects your family if the worst happens. Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income. in coverage, no gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work. So it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great. take it. If it's discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Zander can help you find the right plan. Whether you're single or married, it's not optional. If you're going to be out of

work for a while, then you need to make sure the money still showing up. And that's why Zander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price, no pressure, no upselling. I've trusted Jeff Zander and Zander insurance for over 25 years, and so is my family. So don't wait. It's fast. It's easy. it could make all the difference. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282. Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family. All right, Chris is up next in Houston, Texas. Chris, how can we help today? Ken, George, thanks for taking my call today. You're on my favorite combo.

Oh, wow. We will send you a check. Kelly, make sure we pay the man. Make it a Venmo. Yeah. Venmo, make it easier. Thank you. Thank you, Chris.

Thank you. Appreciate that. What's going on? Okay, so my wife and I are really concerned really right now about our future retirement. So just a little background. Don't have anything saved. They don't have three to six months expenses. I just started doing the Ramsey steps on a baby step two.

So we're talking about selling our home to get the equity out of it to basically just pay everything off and just kind of start fresh and be able to put some money back and then start, you know, investing 15%, like the randestep says. But I'm not sure if that's the right answer to do that or not. The other option is, you know, I keep working like I'm madman like I've been doing, keep the house. but we have a pool, and I don't know if that should be, like, included, like, with the mortgage payment, even though they're separate, or that's considered consumer debt with our car note. How big is the pool loan? The pool loan is $73,000.

And what's your household income? About $8,200 or month after taxes. Okay, what about before? Just give me the gross household income for the year. About $128. Okay. Yeah, I would put it up there with your mortgage since it's over half. of your annual income, we'd kind of treat that like a second mortgage at that point.

Okay. And so I would focus on a consumer debt first. How much is all that add up to? Well, we've paid off all the credit cards, which is about $16,000. Now all we have left besides the pool is a card, which is about $27,000. What's the car worth? 42. Oh, I know what we're doing there, George. Tell him what he's won. You just won $15,000, my friend. That's the difference. If you sold that car and took the proceeds and got something cash, you just freed up a payment and became consumer debt free.

And let's stay right there, Chris. How much is that car payment? It's $500 a month. All right. So we just found you $15,000 in cash and we then saved you $6,000 a year of net income. Hello. You see that magic trick right there? Yes.

And we still have a place to rest our head that we can call our own. So what you won is a cheaper car. That's what you won. Now, what's the mortgage payment? What's that say that again? Unfortunately, that's when my wife wins. Is she on board with this? She is, if that's what we have to do, yes.

It is what you have to do. Well, here's the thing. Do you want to be eating Alpo in retirement but have a nice car? Or do we want to make a short-term sacrifice so we can retire with dignity? That's the trade-off here. Wow. We're not trying to punish you. Right to the dog food.

God. That was dark. And it's, honestly, dog food's not cheap. I take that back. I tell you, my dogs eat really good food. It's going to be ramen, I guess. But, you know, Chris, the reason I'm saying you guys have to do this is because you're 53 and you don't have any retirement. So we have got, now, now this is where George is like, I love, I love when George, oh, I seem doing it. I wish you could see him right now. He's already got, he does the one-hand keyboard thing. He's got the Ramsey investment calculator, which you can access at Ramsey Solutions.com.

So the reason we're going to be super aggressive here is because you guys can catch, you can start to make headway, but we're talking we've got to sell the car and it lists today. And we have got to change. So let's run the numbers, George. Yeah, are you guys in pretty good health? So that's a good question. So I had a heart attack back in March. And I've changed a lot. And my help has gotten a lot better for sure.

I've gone to tests and all that stuff right now. And so that kind of leads me to, you know, I've been, you know, I've worked my regular job, which I work 50 plus hours at, I've been door dashing on the side about another 50 hours a week. Wow. Which is a lot because I'm working every single day from morning to night. How long you've been doing the door dashing? I've been doing the door dashing now for about three months. Did you include that in? Okay, good for you.

Did you include that, though, in the number you gave us on the $128,000 gross? No. Okay. No, I did not because I don't know how long I could sustain that because I'm working every Saturday. The only day I'm taking off on the Sunday. That's it. Okay. And what about your wife? My wife works as well. She works full-time. Her money is included in that number as well.

Okay. And what are you guys doing for work? Is there area for growth here? Yeah, I'm in sales. I mean, there's potential for commission. I just started a new job. Am I like that? I like that. Chris, that is far better than driving. ticket. Forget Uber. Number one, physically. Spend 50 hours on the phones and email selling. Yeah, I'm no doctor. I would like to play one on TV. I want to point that out. And he would make a great one. I think I would look good in scrubs. But the point here is, is that your health and the financial ROI for you is way better to go after that commission. But even at the 128, George, let's paint a

picture here. If we sell the car and so we come up with 15 cash. So we got 15, George, to work with. Yeah, you take that 15, you buy yourself a used cash car. There we go. And then you're debt-free. Now we can work on the emergency fund. So for the next, let's call it six to eight months, just stack away cash to build up that emergency fund. Then we can begin investing.

So let's just paint a picture. A year from now, you're 54, right? Yes. And you're debt-free with an emergency fund, and we begin investing 15% of our income. That's about $1,600 a month. Are you tracking? Yes. By the age of 70. Now, this is assuming you're going to have to work longer because we got a late start. You would have $750,000 likely in that one account. Now we're talking, okay, if we have a paid four house and $750 grand of the bank, we have a fighting chance of surviving, right? Now, what that doesn't include, Chris, is those commissions and more income, socking it away.

What's left on the mortgage? What's the balance? $370. Okay, and how many years left on the mortgage? I took out a 30-year note when we bought the house. I still have 26 years on it. What's it worth? That's why I'm retiring about selling the house. What can you get for the house?

About 600. So you'd walk away with roughly what? When I looked at the numbers, I think I would walk away with about $180, but then paying off the car and the pool that we need with about a hundred, I think. Yeah, that pool loan is sinking. No pun intended. Exactly.

I see what you did there. But then with the pool, I mean, I'm sorry, what would I have left would be about 20% on a house, which only lead me with about $11,000. Yeah, but. To put it through three, six months expenses. Yeah, I like, it's aggressive, allows you to start with the emergency fund immediately and start investing. and you guys can downsize it's just the two of you?

No, we have two more kids at home, but, you know, they're older, so they'll be out at some point. That's right. They live or we tell them to live. George, what do you think about this? I'm actually leading towards this. I like this move. I'm trying to think what, would you go rent somewhere for a while and just keep stacking cash? Because you're not going to be able to afford anything for 180. Well, that doesn't pay off the pool level. Well, if we sold it for $600, I think I, like, if we sold it for $600 today, I could pay off the pool in the car and they'll do end up with about after I put 20% down on a house on a 15-year note, I think I would have about $11,000 left.

Yeah, that was including that fund. And then it would be quicker there, then I'd start, you know, saving for retirement, it seems like I get that built up. Yeah, you're just, you're going to be back to having a giant mortgage is my fear with today's rates and today's price. So that's the part you have to weigh. I would crunch those numbers heavily. I just selling a house is always the last answer, not my first solution, because number one, it doesn't actually change the behavior that got us here. It just feels like a get out of jail free card. And it kind of moves you backwards instead of building equity and getting that house paid off. Now we're liquidating and starting from scratch again in our 50s. And so I would I wouldn't, I would hesitate before just jumping on that. But I love the idea of you guys getting debt.

faster, having more to retire with, but you would also have to go, we're going to downsize our lifestyle and change. I don't like the idea of you just keeping everything going, well, we're going to keep the car, keep the pool, keep living how we're living, and get the cake, too. And so you're going to have to make some deep sacrifice. Agreed. And I feel like if we keep the house, then I just don't see an insight how we could pay off the house eventually.

I just feel like with the income more attached, even if I go up another 20,000, I just don't see how I pay off the house. Yeah, George, I'm going to tell you, I like the aggressive approach here. I rarely disagree with you. But I like where he's at to reset, even if they've got a rent at this stage for a couple of years. I think a reset to try to really get focused on retirement investing. I don't know. It's aggressive, but I like it.

It's a reset for sure. Best of luck, my friend. If you've listened to me for more than five minutes, you know that being normal with your money is not a good thing because normal is broke. And I want you to be weird. That's why I love what we're doing with Fair Wins Credit Union. Our friends at Fair Wins just launched a brand new Ramsey debit card, and it says debt is normal, be weird. Right on the front. I love that.

Because every time you swipe it, you're choosing to live differently with no credit card payments and no debt. You see, Fairwinds has been helping people like you ditch debt faster and build wealth for years. They're not trying to shove credit cards or auto loans in your face like the big banks do. And they've worked with us to create the smart bundle for Ramsey fans. It includes a no-fee checking account, a high-yield savings account to supercharged. your emergency fund, and now the Ramsey debit card to help you stay focused on the baby steps. We're excited for you to try it. So check them out today at fairwins.org slash Ramsey.

That's fairwins.org slash Ramsey, insured by the NCUA. All right, if you died tomorrow, how would your family keep the lights on? How would they pay the mortgage? How would they afford just the basics, like groceries? If anybody in your life depends on your income, you need life insurance. Life insurance has one function, and that is to replace your income if you die. Term life insurance is the only kind of insurance that does that. others like whole or permanent life insurance try to add the investing angle to it and it's just

a bad product so here's what you need life insurance policy that is worth 10 to 12 times your annual income for a term length of 15 to 20 years and it should be a level policy meaning the premium stays the same if you'd like more info on this and some actual resources use our free term life insurance guide go to ramsysolutions dot com slash term life guide that's a life guide excuse me ramsysolutions.com slash term life guide daniel is up in cleveland oh hi how are you doing today thank you so much for taking my call sure um so my question is um whether we are on baby step two or six uh reason being is so is this a trick question It's a riddle wrapped in a rhyme.

It really is, truly. We were all excited. We were debt-free. We were baby step sticks right now. So all we have left is our mortgage. We didn't take into consideration that we do actually have a vehicle loan out for our son, who is paying it. But it is in our name. So does that mean that we go back to baby step two?

should we consider going ahead and paying the loan off while still making him responsible for it or continue on with putting everything towards our mortgage as we have been? Do you have the cash to pay it off today? Well, so we have our emergency fund, our six-month emergency fund, and so we were thinking that if that loan puts us back to baby step two, that technically we should use that to pay it off. And then we hurry up and rebuild our... six months.

All right, George. Tell her, George. What's left on the loan? 18,000. Okay. And is he making payments right now, or are you guys making the payments? No, we do not make the payments. He makes the car payments, car insurance, all of that.

Hmm. The loan just happens to be in our name. Well, you owe the money. If he stops making payments, it's on you. So it's your debt, even if someone else is currently making the payment. And I hope he continues to make the payment. and do the honorable thing. What if, is he making the payment directly to the lender?

Or is he sending you guys the money and you actually do the transaction? Yeah, we make the transaction. Okay. We actually, he gives us the money, we make the payments. I'm just wondering if you guys paid it off, but you make him continue to make payments to you guys, that sort of gives him the responsibility of what he said he would do, which is make the car payments,

while absolving you guys of the risk, the debt, all of that and the interest so that's kind of the way we were leaning um same thoughts um because at the end of the day we do have even if it fell in us if he for some reason something happened and he stopped making the payment we have the money um to pay it we just weren't sure if we should go ahead and use emergency fund and then go ahead and rebuild that which we could do in about yeah what's in savings right now um so we have 25 in our our six-month emergency funds. And then we have a couple other counts with, you know, like, let's say, $5,000 in one and a

couple thousand in the other. Okay. But we have no other debt other than our mortgage. So really most of our money is stinking funds and then paying extra on our mortgage to get that paid off. Okay. Well, I mean, if we're going to talk semantics in the baby steps, you are in Baby Step 2. and we would consider this, you know, where you're going to liquidate your savings to pay off any debt,

just like we would tell anyone in Baby Step 2, and you'll rebuild it really fast. I would have them continue to make the payments unless you just go, hey, bud, you're off the hook. You know, congratulations. Mom and dad just wanted to be generous. Early inheritance for you. We want him to be responsible. We're trying to now get him in, you know, Ramsey program and started him a Roth, then we want him to do the responsible thing, which should be to pay for his vehicle.

Good. Well, if you want the truly responsible thing, it's the discipline to actually save up and pay cash for his next car. And so just making payments has left a lot of people broke. Agreed, yes. So it's an honorable thing that you guys have followed the steps. And I would talk to him. I don't know when, but say, hey, this was a mistake. We want to do everything with cash.

We don't want to owe people money. It's going to free us up mentally, emotionally, financially, and we wish the same for you. Oh, I have to tell you, George, if we could go back in time, if we were doing following time. Please do it. FCC will come down on us hard. Is that right?

Yeah. They've been very busy lately, Ken. Oh, I see what you did there, too. Right out of the headlines, George. We're having a good time. You are on it today, but I didn't know you watched the news, to be honest. I try to keep up. There's so much.

I'm trying to help Danielle. I'm trying to keep up with the news. Well, Danielle, I'm so happy for you guys. You're going to be dead free today. Oh, I know. It's a good day. I have to tell you. I know you guys hear this a lot, but you are my favorite duo,

and I really appreciate all of your advice and how helpful you all are. You all are so kind. By the way, if anyone's keeping scored, it's two for Ken and George today. If we get three, we get a race. Is that right? Oh, okay. Oh, that's a great question from Daniel. It is actually a really good question, Danielle.

And I don't know if you caught it. She said they could rebuild their emergency fund in three months. so really the absolute best move right here. But you got to tell Sparky, you know. Yeah. You got to tell him. Well, you don't tell him because then he goes, wait, well, my dad aren't making payments. You know, I'm actually glad you said that because I wonder, do you tell Sparkey?

Is it deceitful? I don't know. That part is the ethical part of me goes, I don't know. I like a good philosophical. I don't think it's deceitful. What about charging your kid rent? They pay it off. He's paying them anyway.

They don't have to tell him they paid it off. That was my thinking. I think to your point, it puts him an attempt to, kind of a temptation situation where he's like, oh, mom and dad paid it off, and I'm going to flake out and put their love to the test. Maybe I'll miss a payment this month. I hope Sparky's listening. I might be reading his mail. I might be reading his mail. Rex is up next in Houston, Texas. Rex, how can we help? Yes, I just have a question. I'm 66 years old. Still working. I have a 401k IRA.

and my question is, should I take money out of my IRA or 401K to pay off my existing debt? How much do you have in the retirement accounts and how much debt do you have? IRA is 1.1. The 401k is 200,000. Debt's about 300,000. What kind of debt? That's including my mortgage, a school loan, personal loan, cars, and credit card. Wow, you got a little full bucket there. Yeah, at 66, I would want to simplify my life. And so you would deplete 300,000 out of your 1.3.

So it would bring you down to a million? Somewhere around there, yes. I like this plan because here's what it does. It frees up all of those payments. So if you added all of those payments up, the mortgage, the consumer debts, what would that be every single month? It's about $4,500. Woo!

Now, could you then invest that? exact amount? Could you promise me in America that you would do that? Well, pretty close. I mean, right now I put 10% from a paycheck into my 401k and an additional 5% into savings. So here's my thinking. Are you going to work for another five years per se, or what's your plan? Yeah, the plan is, is to, I'm not taking Social Security either right now, so I'm going to 70, take Social Security. The plan is to work to 72. Wow. Well, I did some math for you. If you take that $4,500 and you start investing it from $66 to $7.1, you would end up with $3.48. So you will have more money than this debt was costing you. Okay. And also, if I take it out of there, of course, I don't have a penalty being $66, but I am in the high tax market.

So you are, it's all in traditional? So you would pay taxes on that? Yes, traditional hour rate. Yeah. I would sit down with a tax person. or a smart investor pro, you can jump on to ramsysolutions.com, crunch some numbers and see, hey, maybe I knock out consumer debts this year and the mortgage next year and try to minimize some of the tax damage. But either way, you're going to be debt-free real soon, my friend. And I would consider maybe selling these cars. If we have some equity in these cars, let's not rob from ourselves. Let's have some discipline on that side. Minimize the damage.

Yeah. Thanks for the call wrecks. For way too long, I struggled with sleep and woke up groggy after tossing and turning all night. But now I look forward to bedtime and I wake up bright-eyed and bushy-tailed thanks to Casper, a company that's been perfecting better sleep for over a decade using durable, high-quality materials that actually last. My whole family now sleeps on Casper mattresses. Yes, even the dogs have their own Casper dog bed to no one's surprise. And it's not just one man's opinion. Casper customers keep their mattresses for years, and four out of five customers recommend

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John, how can we help today? Hey, how are you guys? Good. How are you, sir? Blessed, blessed. Just a quick question. I recently was promoted and with the expectations of moving out in Colorado. And the job's been great, and I'm trying to find out either, A, what kind of home price I should be looking at to make sure that when my wife, we have her first child, she can work from home or just not work at all. or if I should end up renting for a year or two to be able to put down a lot more on the home. Great question. Okay, lay out some numbers for us. Yeah, so currently I'm in sales, but minimum is usually about 17K per month.

Some months it's really great up to 30, but it's usually between 17 to 22,000 for my income. Amazing. Hers is about 5K per month, but we're expecting to bring her home after the first child. Okay, so we'll just remove that income from the equation, and you're going, hey, how much house can I afford if I make about 20K a month? Yeah. Okay. And what are you looking at right now? What price range?

Yeah, so we're looking between 300 to 500,000, but I've also been speaking with a realtor about trying to to find an assumeable loan. I do have the option for a VA, which would definitely help with lowering the monthly income or the monthly home price. Well, what it'll do is just allow you to get in with less equity, less down payment. And so that part worries me, especially for a guy making this kind of money. Are you guys not in a good financial position? Do you have debt? No. I've spent the last few months paying off all any credit cards, anything like that. She has a car loan that has a little less than 10K. I've got about 35,000 in the savings, about 20 to 25,000 that I could access through the 401K.

And then with sales, I should be expecting another 15 to 20,000 before we decide to pull the trigger. John, are you familiar with our baby steps? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, okay. So when you tell us you have 35,000 sitting over in savings and your wife is carrying a $10,000 car loan, what do you think we're thinking? You could get that paid off immediately. Yeah, so this is fine. I love when someone else knows what we're going to say.

So the question I have is what is keeping you from doing that, knowing that that's what we were going to tell you to do. Yeah, that's a great question. One of the things that I've been thinking about is with her coming home, is it worth paying off the car now, or is it worth making sure that I have the emergency fund saved up in case something ever happens? to me or the job, that we would have a nest egg to then make decisions on finding a new job or going from there. When is she coming home? We are trying now, so nine to 12 months.

You get what I'm saying here? I already knew the answer. You don't know when she's coming home. Sure. You guys, she's not even pregnant. Sure. And so I'm adjusting these numbers to what you gave me. You guys, you immediately, in laying out the numbers for George, you,

discounted her 5K a month. That actually takes your range of income between 22 and 27, not 17 and 22. To George's point, you're rolling, buddy. And so getting up a really good down payment is not going to take along with those numbers. Am I right, George? Yeah, and you have a lot of flexibility. With your level of income, well, our parameter is no more than a quarter of your take-home pay going towards this mortgage. And that includes the principal, the interest, the property taxes, all of that, the homeowners insurance. And so with your income, if you bought a $500,000 house with $100,000 down with a 15-year fix, you'd likely be looking at a payment of about $37.50 a month, which is very reasonable

if you consistently make $17K a month, agreed? Yeah. And so having a down payment of that, could you save up $100,000 over the next 12 months? Yeah, easily. I guess I should have mentioned. And there is an expectation of moving out there before February, March, time frame. So that's kind of the thing I'm... Where's the expectation coming from?

From taking the promotion. Yeah, but you don't have to buy a house just because you're taking the job. Correct. I rented for two years with three kids. When I moved here 11 years ago, I rented a very much smaller house. Because we wanted... For us, it wasn't just the financial. I didn't want to make a massive decision like that.

about where my kids were going to be until I knew the area. So I love this question, John, and I say this. I want you to feel older brother vibes here, okay? I love how planning and how intense you are and all this stuff. But dude, take a deep breath. You have no idea how quickly you guys are going to get pregnant. And you can pay off her car today. As soon as you hang up the phone, you still have 25 in cash. And between the money you guys have, there's 25. Another 25 5K is going to slip through your hands in the next 30 days. Yeah. So I wouldn't be worried about the emergency.

You're going to be stacking up cash so fast, especially once this car payment's gone, which I know it's not a lot, comparatively to your income. But I would just be stacking cash and more life. Rent, rent, rent, until you guys get planted in this new place. You guys are a young couple. How long have you been married? Less than a year. Oh, good heavens.

You guys are just learning how to be married. Yeah. How old are you, John? 32 32 um yeah man like this is exciting this call is great and then you're in great shape you mentioned the 401k never touch that retirement account if you're not 59 and a half you're essentially taking on a loan for 35% by cashing that out early so i would just leave that money alone you have a great income go rent in february in that new city sign a six or nine month lease and by this time next year you're going to have $100,000 in a down payment account and you can get a half million

dollar home and it's going to be so peaceful to do it slow and steady instead of rushing into all this at once, especially when you're bringing a baby into this world. Man, it just adds a whole other layer of stress and nesting. And so you don't want to be moving while she's eight and a half months pregnant. Yeah. And to that point, I just want to give you one other little encouragement, even if she got pregnant tomorrow and the baby's, I mean, the income, if you have no debt and the income you have, you're fine.

You'll build up the emergency, that 35, you're going to replenish that. You've got more than enough to take care of this baby, all right? So I love your earnest intensity. I really do. You're a sharp young guy. You're in good shape. Good shape. I appreciate it.

Just breathe, man, you know? Yeah, that's been the tough part. You're just trying to make sure, you know, in introducing a family that I do everything right. Well, buddy, I'm going to tell you something. You're a poster child. I mean, you are. You are just a, you know, if you look up fine young man in the dictionary, nobody uses that terminology except people that are. Well, I'm 51, folks.

We have an expanded vocabulary, all right? Can I get some love in the lobby? You've heard you've used the phrase. That's a peaty clap, if ever seen what it is. No, that was a nice par putt clap is what that was. But you, listen, John, you are absolutely doing a phenomenal job of providing for you, your wife, your future family. You are way ahead.

George, just to put you on the spot, because you're in the numbers on this particular stuff more than I am, the average 32-year-old, if you were going to make something up, an educated guess versus John to encourage John, and also to paint the picture for other people to be in his spot. What would you say the average 32-year-old dude, his financial picture looks like in America? Probably has a big truck that's about $700, probably still has a student loans, probably still fooling with credit cards, and probably making $4,000 to $5,000 a month, not $20,000 a month. That's exactly right. This picture, I'm just like, this kid is going places. He just got to tweak a few things and have a little bit of patience, but he's going to be catapulted when he's making $20,000 a month, no debt with a reasonable house payment.

which means he's going to pay that house off early. Mom's going to be at home, not stressed, taking care of the baby, raising the family. This is a poster child for the baby steps if he can do this, right? Yeah, so John, man, we are team John, and you've done such a good job, and it's really important to be able to get perspective. So glad you called today if we could just be a little bit of a sounding board to go, man, you're doing great. You just got to, as George said, the tweaks, and enjoy life.

And don't be so scared because you are really, really in great shape. and we're praying for you guys, hope the baby and all that. Everything comes along when you want it to. It's such an exciting time. You're doing well, young man. Thank you for the call. Trying to organize your important documents shouldn't feel like another full-time job. With Knockbox, it isn't.

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in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. I'm Ken Coleman, thrilled to be alongside my pal, George Camel. We're here for you, AAA 825-5-2-2-2-5. We go to Ohio next where Jennifer is waiting for us. Jennifer, how can we help today? Hi. I'm one of us than I thought I would be. Well, it's George. He's intimidating. It's the height mostly.

Just know that I'm here to just take care of you. I'll make sure he's nice. Thank you. Okay. So, I'm on a baby set two, and I'm still about $50,000 in debt. However, I'm sorry, I don't want to cry online on the phone. It's okay. I have to make a hard decision to say goodbye to my buddy, my dog next week. Oh, no.

He's about 17, and I've had him 15 years. Oh. He's been with me. He's moved across to another country with me and all the things. What's his name? Um, his name is Ulysses. Ulysses? Yeah, but you know, like Ulysses, yeah.

It's a great name. It's a great name. I love that historical name. Yeah, I'm nerding out right now. What kind of dog? Yeah, what kind? I don't know. He's, um, he's some kind of poodle mix.

Um, his first owner was a hoarder and I think was trying to, um, like, breed dogs or something. It was a bad situation. So he's, he's just a sweet. he's a total love bug you know he's totally he's almost 17 and well george and i like his tail would still wag and he'd come up and

try to he's just luckily well listen you're talking to two dog lovers here yeah i was hoping i'd get you too we we we hurt for you this is not fun okay so we got this hard decision coming up tell us what else is going on well for sure what i've done and i guess i'm just looking for some reassurance but financially i've done the right thing

So part of how I knocked out the debt was I had a non-retirement mutual fund and I cashed that out. And what I did is I knew this was probably coming. So I took $400 and I put it in a sinking fund just in my savings account to say when and if. Where I'm struggling and I hate it because what I want to do is have them cremated and get the earn back like I did for my other dog. Yeah. But that's $200 more. I do have the money in the sinking fund. I just I'm struggling with like I've been so good about I don't eat out

rice and beans beans and rice I'm doing handmade gifts instead of gifting like I'm doing all the things but I just want to know that I'm not being completely irresponsible to spend the 240 instead of just 40 to cream eating at my my pups out and his ashes back and I know not everyone agrees with that well what's the other option if you didn't do it well there's two so one is it's just $40 for the cremation and I just pay that and I don't get them back. They just Okay, gotcha. I'm sorry. They do that like in mass

and then the other the least expensive is I could bury him in my parents' backyard but I can't pick him up once he's gone. Like I don't think I can't do it. I'm even having a panic attack thinking about it. Oh, well that's tough. That's tough stuff. Jennifer, spend the 240. Just spend it.

You're never going to look back and go, dang it, why don't I spend that $240? I could have got out of debt four days sooner. Yeah. Okay, thank you. I've been so diligent about like everything that it's like... Yeah. This is not an impulsive girl's trip. Yeah, this is not craziness. This is like a big...

This is a huge deal. All of us who've had to put a furry friend down, it is tough. Thank you. And this is a... Okay. Yeah. You're not like emotionally spending to go, you know, retail therapy. This is something that you want to do as your way to say goodbye. It's not going to derail your financial journey. And if it really makes you feel guilty, here's what I would do psychologically.

Go make $240 doing something, selling something as part of this journey. As a way to say, you know what? I didn't derail my financial goals and I got to grieve the way I wanted to grieve. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. You're the best.

We're so sorry. So sorry. Give you, Lizzie. Give him some love for George and I, a little extra pat for the best boy. I will. I will. Yeah. Thank you so much.

Oh, my gosh. What is it about dogs and pets? It just crush us. I think it's the unconditional love and innocence. Yes. And can we just say, I love naming dogs. It's one of my favorite things in life. What's your dog names?

We've got Ellis and Honey. Oh. And they are doodles. Ellis is the big guy. He's like that white perfect curl. Like he just, and he's a human. Ellis thinks he's a human. I've stared into his eyes.

You have. And I treat Ellis as though he's a human. And then Honey is our mini golden doodle. And our daughter actually owns, she bought her. That was a big thing, big purchase for Josie, our daughter, and she did it. And she's just a little miniature doodle. And she owns me. I mean, you know what I mean? She's just unbelievable. Well, especially as the kids get older and they don't like you anymore, the dogs will always love you. I tell you, who's always excited to see me when I walk in, Ellis and Honey. Stacey's not always excited to see me. I've said. And I don't blame her. I mean, let's be clear here. I mean, it's been how many years you've been married? Twenty-seven years, you know? Some days, she just doesn't want to see me. She goes, hey, Ken, you left the laundry out. What did I tell you? Yeah. Stacey didn't sound like that. I promised. I was going to say, that's a horrible impression. Let's go to Ben in Kentucky. Ben, how can we help today? Well, I'm about to retire. Not that I want to. It's just the company's closing. And I have 300,000 in CDs. And I'm wondering what to do with that. And I also have 100,000 U.S. savings bonds. I mean, do I leave them in CDs and savings bonds, or should I put them somewhere else?

Well, I mean, you're just leaving a lot of money on the table. You're basically just kind of keeping up with inflation, but you're not going to make anything above and beyond that. So if this money is going to sit there for the next 10 years, I'd much rather see it invested into the market instead of just on the sidelines. It's time for the investment calculator, George. Should we play the game? We should. What caused you to put almost half a million dollars on the side here? Like, what is it, are you scared?

Well, I'm about 67, 68 years old, and I'm just worried in the market because, well, as you know, it doesn't always go up. And sometimes it takes a long time to come back up. And I just didn't want to lose it. And I just don't know what to do. I like it to be safe. and that's why I was wondering, I mean, because I do have a little bit in stocks, but not much, but... Well, the thing is, when you say I wanted to be safe, it's actually riskier to leave it in their long term. Yeah.

And the risk is, instead of making 20, 30 percent this year, you're going to make 4 percent. And you're going to go, what? How does it? What happened? My money just kept up with inflation. Well, it could have turned into half a million. Quick thing on this, Ben, if the things, and I'm not going to make you tell us for sake of time, but if the things happen that you're worried about happening that would make money in the stock market risky, guess what? Your money's not safe in the other situation either and we're all probably in a bunker somewhere. You just have to play that out. Does that make sense what I'm saying? Like all of the apocalyptic things that would make you think, well, the CDs are safer. If that were to happen,

the CDs, none of it matters. You with me on that, George? Yeah. I mean, I don't think. I don't think that's an extreme statement. Let's get a bigger financial picture here. Do you have any debt? No debt. Okay. Do you have a nest egg outside of this money? We have a simple IRA, and that's about $600,000. Okay. So you are invested in the market through that IRA? Yes, uh-huh. Well, you trusted the market on that one. And here's the math on it. From 68 to 75, you just leave that $300,000 in there into the market. It'll turn into $600,000 by $75. Ben. So that's what you're, that's just average rate of return 10%. So I would move that money over, leave enough maybe a year of expenses if you're in retirement to, to cover a market downturn.

But I would not just leave half a million parked on the sidelines, my friend. What does the future hold for business? business. Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 different answers. Economic growth or a recession. Business taxes will go up or down. AI will help us work or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball. That's why more than 42,000 businesses have future-proofed themselves with NetSuite by Oracle. The number one, AI cloud enterprise resource planning system. Ramsey Solutions uses NetSuite and you should too. Whether your company, earning millions or even hundreds of millions,

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you spend less time looking backward and more time focusing on what's next. And speaking of what's next, download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at NetSuite.com slash Ramsey. It's free at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. Hey, Hey, folks, we'd love for you to share the show with folks that you think might enjoy it, that might need it.

That's how we grow. You guys are the ultimate marketing campaign. If this show is in any way impacting you in a positive way, we'd love that. Subscribe. like, follow all the things. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Caitlin is up in Texas. Caitlin, how can we help? Hi. Thanks for taking my call. Can you hear me? Yes, loud and clear. What's going on? Thank you. So my husband and I have been married for eight years. We have a seven-year-old son, and he has a 24-year-old daughter from a previous marriage. Now, he was estranged from his

daughter for a while. So now they're, they have a great relationship. But we were talking and he said that he wants to give her 20% of his 401k when he passed away, but when I'm still alive. And I feel very frustrated with this. So I don't know if I'm wrong or what I should do. Oh, and did you tell him this how frustrated you are and why? Yes. And how did he respond to that? Well, his reasoning is because he was, so he used to be, he was in prison, he was a drug addict at one point, but he's got sober now. He's been sober for 13 years, and he has rebuilt his relationship with his daughter. And I think that he, the money is trying to make it for lost time and that he doesn't want her to feel like he left her behind without thinking about her. And she is, and she is his daughter.

she is his daughter and she's 24 the reason why I'm frustrated because my son, our son is special needs and I feel like he might not be able to take care of himself. And, you know, we have a trust set up. It's a special needs trust. And I guess we have a will, but I thought that all our assets were going to go into his will, I mean, to his trust. And he's saying, well, that's fine, but 20% of my 401k is going to her. Well, I'm just going to say that, let me ask another question. If this daughter was your biological daughter, do you think you'd feel the same way? I mean, maybe.

I think that, I mean, I guess. Let me put it another way. Do you think it is normal for, let me make it super personal. Okay, I have three kids. Okay. And so in my will. do you think it would be abnormal if I gave all three of my kids some money? No, that would be fair.

All three were like the same amount. It doesn't matter. I'm not even getting into the specifics. I'm trying to walk you into it. I'm really trying to coach you here. So you think that's normal for me to do that, yes? Yes. Why?

Why is it normal? Why would that be totally normal? for you to give your money to your children when you passed away now would you give that to them before your wife passed away well without getting into the details yeah yeah i'm not going to get into the details of my situation i'm but i'm making a point here that is i don't think that this is abnormal and you don't either i think it's very emotional for you and i'm not judging you in any way shape or form i certainly see how you are where you are because you shared it with me and I see how you got there because of the challenges of your son and what his

situation would be. I get it. But as I'm saying, and I'm going to bring George in and George may have a completely different opinion. I'm just telling you that I totally see where he's coming from and I don't have some fundamental problem with it, philosophical problem and I don't have a financial problem with it. George? Yeah, the piece I'm curious about, are you going to be okay if something were to happen to him? Would I be okay if something happened to him? Financially. If your husband dies today, are you okay?

If you get 80% instead of 100% are you still living a comfortable life? I mean, he hasn't been in the workforce that long. I probably have more investments than he does. So I'm trying to get at, is this actually a financial? There's really no if I get 80%, I'm not.

going to be doing okay versus 100. So it's really just the idea that he's valuing and prioritizing his daughter over giving you the entire share. And maybe you feel like it's unfair to the son. So the next question is, is the son set up to succeed if something were to happen? Is the special needs trust funded? And have you guys done a good job to make sure that he would be okay? Well, so far we have. He's seven. And my husband are both 50. I had him a lot later in life. And I think that, I mean, I could see that.

I think that it was just an emotional feeling. I kind of felt that he wasn't thinking about us, and he was more concerned about his a grown child that's self-sufficient. I think that's what it was. It absolutely is. But here's the thing. As an objective bystander that you called and asked this question to, I don't think he's demonstrating that even financially.

The blind share, the big chunk is going to you. And for your son. And is there a percentage of his overall? Now, I don't know the relationship or the past history, but do you think there's some guilt here that he feels as a father to go, I feel like I owe her something because of what she has gone through? Yeah, absolutely. So I think I would try to put myself in his shoes and just talk to him honestly and say,

hey, here's how this hit me initially. I want to hear you out and hear your heart behind this. I want to come to an agreement and make peace with whatever we decide on as a couple. And I want to see the numbers to know that our son's going to be taken care of. I'm going to be taken care of. And your daughter will get her share as well. I think focusing on the facts, the logic and the heart behind it, the motive behind it, will help you step away from just the emotion of, well, I'm his wife.

I should be getting whatever he leaves. Yeah. And a little dose of perspective, Lord willing, you guys live 20, 30, 40 years. You guys are early 50s. You got some work to do anyway on this to really bump these numbers up. So it is all emotional. I love that being honest. You're very self-aware on this. And we're not judging you at all. Totally get where you're coming from. But I see where your husband's coming from. And I think this is a marriage issue. And I think this is going to cause a lot of resentment if you don't get to a place of acceptance over this and go, oh, okay, we can. can come together and take care of our son. We can come together, make sure we're debt-free, and lock the Ramsey baby steps out, and retire with a tremendous amount of peace and margin and not even worry about this. Can I ask you, who is the beneficiary on your investments? My husband, 100%. There we go. So now it feels unfair. That's where this is stemming from. Is there a way where you could say, hey, he's 80% and I'm going to do 20% to the special needs trust? I could. I could do that. And I think he would have been, I think he would be fine with it, you know. But I also know that if I give him a hundred percent, I definitely trust him where he would never, he would do everything he could to make sure our son is safe and everything. And there's, okay, there's the statement. There it is. What you just said is what you have to remember when this emotion comes up. I trust him and I know that he would do everything he can.

take care of us. And this is the same man who also wants to do something for a daughter that he failed. I admire this. I admire this move. It's not traditional. I get it. But this isn't a traditional life you guys have. This is a unique story. And I hope you can mend this resentment and go, hey, this is what I felt because I'm sure he felt some of this coming at him. And I think you've got to support him in this move. Yeah. Well, thank you. You're a good lady. You're good lady. You know, you're not, this is a, I appreciate you being really honest. George, these things. Yeah, this is not an out of bounds thing. Like, you're, what you're feeling is normal.

Yeah. But I just want to go further than that instead of just leave it at face value of, well, he should give you 100%. You're the wife. Again, this is a complex situation and it requires a more unique solution. Yeah. Thank you, Kaelan, for sharing with this. Your good lady and you guys have a lot. of time to do what's necessary to take care of your son. Focus on that. That's a unified goal and a worthy goal. Listen up people. If your phone bill is more than $25 a month, you're basically donating to keep your mobile carriers' private jets stocked with caviar.

But Boost Mobile isn't playing that game. Unlimited talk, text, and data for just $25 a month. No contracts. No, we're raising your rate because we feel like it emails. Just a simple low bill every month. And because they actually believe in what they're selling, there's a 30-day money-back guarantee. So if you don't love it, get your money back for zero risk. Go to boostmobile.com to make the switch today. That's boostmobile.com slash Ramsey. Restrictions apply. See boostmobile.com slash ramsie for details All right, George, we're going to do something new.

This is going to be fun. How about a video call? Would you like to help somebody out? This is something we have never done on the Ramsey show. No, we're doing it right now. We're going to go to Sarah in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Hi, guys. I hope you're doing okay today. We're doing okay. It's so nice to see you. It is so nice to see you. Thanks for joining us. So how can we help today? Well, after about seven years of hard work at paying off my debt, I've found myself in a bit of a better financial situation. And I've been working for seven years at 70 to 100 hours a week. What?

And I. Doing what kind of work? Tell us what kind of work this is. Um, a little bit of everything. I've been a bartender, a legal secretary. Um, I currently work, uh, bartending as a legal secretary and in logistics. What's your full-time job? Uh, I work in logistics.

Okay. That's 40 hours a week? Yeah. Yep. And that's a normal, like eight to five? I sometimes am working over time. Okay. And then at night, you're going to the next thing, to the next thing, to the next thing.

For seven years, you've done this. Yes. Are you done with the debt? I am not. I just got my student loans refinanced. They were at a 14% interest rate, if you can believe it. And I cut it down to six. Okay, okay.

Wow. Give us a quick snapshot of your current debt situation. So I have $85,000 left. I got my credit cards completely paid off last year. And based on my current income and the rate at my refinance, I'm able to pay double sometimes two and a half times my minimum. Are you doing the debt snowball where you're just. focused on one and making minimums on the rest? I only have the one loan because they got consolidated when I refinanced to get out of the

14%. Oh, so you have an $85,000 loan that you're just tackling. And what are you putting towards that? What is the amount you're putting towards that every month? So the minimum is 1065 and I am currently paying per month somewhere around $2,500. okay and um and i sometimes can go a little higher right depending depending on the hours so because you just told us 70 to 100 hours and the emotion came out yeah what's going on what's that emotion coming from um it's just been a lot yeah for a long time yeah and three years is basically what i

have calculated left at so okay and that just feels absolutely overwhelming yeah yeah yeah okay so what we want to do here is we want to go okay it's okay to take a take a deep breath on this whole situation and go okay uh i can't keep this up right now you you feel like you're at your breaking point that's what you feel like a lot of days yes i mean my boyfriend is incredibly supportive and he tries to do as much as he can to help out. But he really doesn't know what more to do for me. No. Okay. So let's see what we can do. Well, you're not. Let's start there. You're not stuck. You're exhausted. Okay. You've done a great. You've done a great job. All right. Let's look at the day job, the 40 hour a week job. What is your income from that?

about 54 before any overtime okay 54,000 before overtime and then how many overtime hours are available to you it depends um currently I'm working anywhere from 4 to 10 a week okay so 4 to 10 hours of overtime a week yeah okay great so that puts us at most 50 hours so 44 to 50 hours and then you are working these extra jobs on top of that, correct? Yes, that is correct. Okay. And if you were, if I were to say to you right now, hey, take a month off of these other jobs and let's just focus on the day job and the overtime that comes to the day jobs. That's going to put us in a 44 to 50 hours a week, okay?

Just knowing what you know about your finances. much would that affect your ability to make that $2,000 payment a month? What would that drop? Would it drop and what would it drop too? It would drop about $1,500. Okay. So it would be that substantial. Yeah. Okay. And that's what's saying, if you keep this up, you're on a three-year pace, George. I want to bring you in on that because I think there's another way out of this on the three years. Yeah, I'm trying to get to the root of, you know, you've been at the seven years. On average, it takes people about 18 to 24 months to get out of debt. So what was the original balance you were facing of all the debts?

So part of what this is I went and got a master's story. And my field that I work predominantly in is known for not paying very well. But I would try to write in my free time. I have a degree in history. So what was your master's in? Military history, actually. Oh, boy. Were you trying to get a job in that field?

Or was this just for fun? Yes, actually, I would, my eventual goal is to teach. And I have the lead on potentially getting into a Ph.D. program in the next couple of years. Oh, forget it. Which is paid. Let's put that on ice. I know, but right now. So let's go to the, and that's kind of where I'm at.

Let's go to the logistics. Was this all the, so what kind of debt was this and what was the original balances? Because it sounds like you added to it over the seven years. In my mind, you were just crushing down the debt, but instead you were adding to it while trying to keep up. I actually paid as I was in my master's program in order to keep doing that and still held my minimums for my undergraduates. So was this like $500,000? entirely certain. No, I, so I was a little bit stupid and I didn't know what I was doing when I went into my undergraduate program. That's most everybody. And my dad took care of all of the

loans and he put them on variable interest rates. And so I have no idea exactly what the starting amount was. Are they in his name or yours? He's my co-signer. Oh, this just got more interesting. So the debt is also his. Okay. All right. I think we got to talk about, first of all, you can't keep this up. I don't think you're in a, now you might be able to come back to 70, but 100 hours. Like at some point, you're going to have to be really, really smart about you and your mind and your body trying to keep this up. All right. So what is two or three ladders up, two or three rungs up the ladder look like from your logistics career where you now what does it look like is it attainable and does it pay substantially more yes that's the focus

if we can double your income and get you working 40 50 hours we solve the problem that's what we're trying to do here you're working that's one of the things i've been working towards for the last year is to earn the promotion that comes and i think i'm actually close to it you're close and can i tell you something else you keeping up the schedule you've been keeping up while I admire it. And it is gazelle intensity. You're the poster child. So proud of you. But that's affecting your ability at the day job. You're going to become more promotable when you are more refreshed mentally, physically. So you're not stuck. You're not putting the best effort. Your effort's amazing, but the effort's not going to the best place. I want to see you get

promoted. I want to see you use that logistics resume in the building that you're in right now, okay, or, uh, outside of that building because the logistics experience and skill set, George, is where she has the greatest opportunity for growth. Now we can work 50 hours a week, maybe the occasional 60, but we got more income. Yeah, I would try taking a few months off. I think you should. You know what? Let me see what this does for my career. Let me see what this does for my emotional and mental health and physically. And then we'll reset in January and see, do we need to put the foot on the gas again. Yeah. Sarah, we're rooting for you. You're a warrior.

Keep going. All right, let's go to Amber in Georgia. Amber, how can we help today? Hey, guys. So I guess my primary question is how do you stay motivated? or how do I stay motivated when I feel deprived and restricted by a budget? Who made the budget? I got a feeling it was somebody else.

Was it you? You made the budget? No, I made the budget. There's more to the feeling restricted. Yeah, what area do you feel restricted? Tell us what's making you feel restricted. Sorry, I thought I was going to be able to keep it together. Listen, people cry on the show all the time.

You're okay. We're good. I have had a very difficult life. It's been really, really tough, and I'm just now starting to get help. And part of the things that have been tough have been financial. I have spent money just because I was filling a void, and I didn't know or realize that until recently. So I've gotten myself into a lot of financial trouble. I was married to a man who got us in a lot of financial trouble.

We almost lost our house. We wound up filing bankruptcy. I had to file bankruptcy a second time in order to avoid a legal situation. And I just feel like it doesn't matter what I do. I can't stick to anything. So you're beating yourself up big time. This isn't about the budget, Amber. You feel hopeless because life has knocked you down, and you need to heal from all the things that have happened to you, and that's okay.

So where are you at today? Are you single again, working? I work. I work about 52 hours a week. I've got two jobs that I work those hours between, and then I work 12 hours a month at a third job. I do have a boyfriend, but he lives an hour and a half away. What are you making with all three jobs? Around 62,000.

Okay, do you have kids? An older kid. Okay. So you're only responsible for you right now? Yes. Okay, let me just throw something in real quick, okay? I'm proud of you, and I think you should be proud of yourself. I hear a lady who has had a rough go, and I think you blame yourself for a lot of it.

Not all of it, but I think you're dealing with a lot of shame. And I just want to say to you that the fact that you're working three jobs and making $60,000 a year and trying to rebuild, I'm just want to say, you are a strong person. So just wanted to, the rest of the phone call, I want you to know that and believe that because that's what I see. And, George, you see it as well. Yeah. And you're resilient. Okay, so let's keep walking through. George Walker through the financial stuff.

You make 62K. How much debt do you have right now? About 88,000. Okay, break that down for us. Okay, $3,000 is just random miscellaneous debt. I've got $2,000 in credit card, $7,000 on one vehicle, 21 on another, $25,000 in student loans, and 30,000 to my parents for my divorce.

Okay, and this is all post your last bankruptcy? Yes. Okay, so the cycle has just been continuing every single time. Is that correct? Yeah. Okay. Yes. And what you said you're trying to seek help, what kind of area you share as much as you're

comfortable with, but what is the root of this? if you had to say, hey, when this happens, this is sort of a trigger for me that causes me to spiral and go want to spend a bunch of money that I don't have and go into debt. What causes the loop? Aside from mental health, I don't know. When you say mental health, what are you comfortable telling us? Diagnose yourself here. What is this thing is what George is getting at? I was recently diagnosed with PTSD and bipolar disorder.

Okay. And are you currently with a medical professional working on treatment and medicine to get a hold of this? Yes. Okay. And in the meantime, your original question was, I feel restricted by living on a budget. So when you made this budget, what is the area or line item where you go, oh, this is so restrictive? What can't you do that you want to do? Well, I mean, part of it is your bills, right?

You have your rent. You have your utilities. You have insurance. You've got to put food on the table and get some groceries. So what is restrictive about it? So I feel restricted in the sense that I'm so accustomed to having two incomes. I went from $175,000 combined to, you know, $50,000 at the time.

And I could buy whatever I want, and it didn't matter. We were in a decent financial position, and I'm still in that mindset that I just can't get out of. Paying my bills is not the problem. Bills are paid. I can't put money away because whatever money I have left over, I want to buy nothing, anything. Well, okay, so let's reclassify the word you're using because words matter.

But before we do that, quick context, yes, you had two incomes, but you told us that your ex-husband put you in a massive financial hole on his own. So it wasn't that great. It's just you guys were living like it was great. True or false? Both true and false. The financial predicament happened years later, and then we got on the term. Right. But my point is, is it was great for a while, and then it wasn't great.

and we're still living a long time ago. And so I don't think you're restricted. I think that you're dealing with a form of depression. And I don't know, I'm not clinically diagnosed. I'm saying this is like financial depression because it's like I had this life. This is what it was like. And now I'm just chipping away and I'm not even having any fun. There's no fun at all.

And welcome to the journey. There are people sitting in this locker. today that have felt that if you felt that before raise your hand out there yeah I mean millions of people that have turned their life around at some point in the baby steps baby step one and two George are grueling yeah so do you have a thousand dollars right now Amber no has that been hard for you to come up with I had it and that I had it and then I had it and then something happened that legally shouldn't, I had a lien placed on something and I had to get the lien off in order to replace what I needed to replace. Well, that lien should never have been

placed because that particular balance was included in the bankruptcy. But because I legally needed to drive, I had to pay the lien. So there went my entire savings. Okay, but $4,000, let's say, will pass through your hands the next 30 days, correct? yes before you pay the bills can you set aside a thousand over in a savings account outside of your checking account and still pay your bills yes okay so there's baby step one part part of the the hard part of this is you just have to do it and there's always going to be something that comes up and you just have to make getting out of debt and getting to a better financial spot the priority before anything else and it's there's going to be more setbacks where that

came from because here's the reality you're right looking at the budget it is restrictive because you're broke you make 62k and you have 88k to pay off that's hard math that you're facing and so my hope for you is that we can go how do we clear this debt fast like these cars do we need both of these cars can we sell one or both of them and clear those payments and then buy something used in cash uh no because they're they're both underwater by how much on each on one of them probably 4,000 and on the other maybe six or seven okay so now we have a solvable problem if we come up with 10 or 11k we can clear these payments and breathe a little bit more and then we clear the next smallest debt breathe a little bit more

so you're going to have to get creative I hope you can get your health in a manageable spot and just know this looks different now your life changed dramatically the reality changed. Hang on the line. I want to get you into every dollar. It's more than a budgeting app. It's going to walk you through this whole journey. Hang on the line. We're going to help you. Hey, what's up? Dr. John Deloney here. The new dates have dropped for the money and marriage getaway over Valentine's Day weekend in 2026. This is your chance to hit pause on everything in your life and reconnect with your spouse over a long weekend in Nashville, Tennessee. Me and my friend Rachel Cruz will be digging into topics like sex, money, communication, and more.

This weekend is happening on February 12 through the 14th, and early bird prices start at $749 per couple, but the prices will be going up soon. Get your tickets today at ramsysolutions.com slash events. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Wins Credit Union Studio, alongside the incomparable, the charming. George Camel. I'm Ken Coleman. You like what I did there? I was actually shocked. I thought there was someone else you were going to announce. I think you are charming. I really do. I don't think you get enough credit for your charm, George. Thank you. People just love your brain. They do. They love it when you crunch the numbers here on the Ramsey's show.

I do like to crunch a good number. All right, Cindy's ready. Cindy's joining us now in Ohio. Cindy Hock we help? Well, good afternoon. First of all, my son wants me to say hi on his behalf. What's his name? What's his name? I would prefer not to say it at the moment. We get it. We were trying to give him a shout out. We were going to do a shot. But never mind. He'll know. Is he listening or watching? What was the deal? He is aware that I'm on the phone with you. He will see this later. He will, he will later. Okay, let's do it. Hey, buddy. Hey, Baxter. I'm just going to guess on a. I don't know. You can't make up a fake name. I can do what I want. Now he's going to be

confused. Cindy, I apologize for my co-hosts. Well, tell your son we said hello. We love to meet him sometime. All right. I will tell him. What's up? Okay. So my question has to do with my next step in the baby step. So I am single. I have a six months fully funded emergency fund. So I'm excited to start on my 15% investing. Awesome. Yeah. So, however, I'm not sure if I should because my company that I worked for was recently purchased, and so there's some job uncertainty.

So I know, you know, that may be a reason to say cash. However, I was notified that if I stay with a company for at least another year, that they will give me a retention bonus. Okay, hold on. All right, let's pause. Let's pause real quick, because this is interesting. You're feeling because of the acquisition that your job may be in trouble, and yet they just gave you a notification that if you stay for another year, you get a benefit.

Yes. So that's a good sign to me. Yes? What am I missing? It is. they did say that if they haven't decided exactly which path they're going to go they're kind of still in the figuring things out stage so they did say that they could end my employment at any point in time oh I missed that part I must have interrupted you before that okay I get you all right I'm sorry that bonus that bonus would be payable to me regardless if it's if it's a year from now or if they determine that my position will be eliminated I still get that bonus okay any hint Any hint or ideas or hunches on when they're going to make this decision? That I don't know.

But I also do know for a fact that if my position is eliminated, I will get that retention bonus along with a severance, which is in excess of 10 months of my current salary. Give us that number. It would be over $100,000. Okay. I'm thinking that Cindy would be okay. with that $100,000? That'd give you a little bit of padding to find another job.

Is that true? Yes. Okay, so I'm taking a deep breath if I'm you, yes? Yes. Okay, I wish I'm not missing anything. No, I think that I'm okay to go ahead and start investing since I know that I've got six months in the bank already plus some. How much is in the bank?

What's the number? I've got about $35,000 in the bank, and my emergency fund would be about $19,000. Okay. You're more than okay. I would not pile up another dime. I would just go ahead and ratchet that investing up to 15%. And you have a good retirement account through your employer? I do. I have about 300 and something in there. Way to go, Cindy. Come on. Let's go. Single mom? Yes, yes. And how old are you? That's amazing. How old are you? Oh, wait, we're not supposed to ask. I am 47. Okay. Wonderful. Very young, by the way. So I'm just thinking, I'm just thinking how much this involves. investment account will grow on top of you contributing to it. I've no doubt that you will be a

baby steps millionaire if you just keep following this path. That is correct. Just for fun, George, what's the, I love when you do this. Give Cindy another reason to be very peaceful. What's your income? Every year? My base is about 136. Love it. Okay. He's running a number, Cindy, on what that 300 is going to look like. If you don't do, this is going to be exciting. Are you ready for this? Here we go. Oh, boy, I saw the number. 47 to 67. You already have 300 grand.

You're going to add 1,700 a month, if you do 15%. You're going to be at about 3.5 million. So I wouldn't be worried. Now, I hope you never lose your job. And know that if you ever did, you're in the best situation possible, knowing that you have an emergency fund, you have no debt, and you have a severance package here. So I would be sleeping well at night, just crushing it at your job. and if they let go of you, you're going to be so valuable, someone else will scoop you up

and you'll probably make more. That's right. Awesome. Thank you. Hey, I know you didn't call about this particular piece, but I want to give you this. I wrote a book years ago called The Proximity Principle, and in the entire book could be summed up in one sentence, the right people plus the right places equals opportunity. And so anytime somebody calls or I run into somebody who's got a situation like this and they're like I'm unsure about my employment. Beyond all the money stuff that we just covered, the next thing I'm going to tell them is start connecting like crazy.

You just start connecting in your industry or you're just, and you're not going out and telling everybody the sky's falling or that in my job. But you can say, hey, I just, just part of an acquisition. And so not sure where that's going to go. Could turn out great, but really not sure right now. and so I'm out making connections, coffees, lunches, you know, I am letting everybody know that I might very well be a free agent, and you would be surprised how much peace that's going to give you, number one, but number two, you might be surprised that even though you might not

be looking for anything, something might come to you. And the idea here is I want to get around the right people. These are people that are in my industry and reconnect. And that means tell everybody because you've got a real good reason to share that right now because anybody in your situation would feel the same way you're not laid off this thing might turn out to be great but I really really recommend that you do that and so keep going but also I'm always creating it's like you know I'm on flight I'm flying to Virginia later today and at some point before we take off tonight they'll show us the emergency exits I want people doing the same thing professionally All right. If I were to be laid off or if, you know, what would be my emergency exits? Really important. And a lot of people don't do that. And I think you can do that all the time and always put yourself in a good space. Last thing I want to say, Cindy, I know George is going to want to say something too. I'm putting you on the spot, pal. I want your son to hear from us that his mom has done a phenomenal job taking care of him. And buddy, listen to the details today and sit down.

and talk to mom about what she's done and you learn from her, but also I want you to thank her, give her a big hug, because she has really done a phenomenal job taking care of you, pal. No notes. That was perfect. So thank you, Cindy. I was just hoping you would have an analogy for the seat as a flotation device, you know, the career field. Is that the severance? Well, no, I'll tell you what it is. Your connections are the flotation device. And what about the mask? What are we doing with the mask? The mask is the money stuff. So if I've got the emergency fund, I don't have debt. I mean, I know that I'm not in desperation.

I'm not going to die. We take the mask. That's the money. Stability, that's the mask. And then the flotation devices, I got connections. I got jobs. People want me. They love me.

Keep going. We've all done dumb things with money. I've done them with zeros on the end. One of the biggest mistakes I see people make with money is not having a plan for it. You've got to have a plan. You've got to be intentional and you need to get a budget. You have to tell your money where to go so you're not wondering where it went. Our budgeting app, every dollar, helps you do. just that. It's the easiest and fastest way to make a monthly plan for every dollar you've got coming in and going out. Now's the best time to get started before the ridiculous holiday

spending season gets here and sucks you in because you didn't have a plan. Don't let that happen. You're done making that mistake. Go download every dollar for free in the app store or Google Play today. All right, let's go to Joseph in Louisville, Kentucky. Joseph, how can we help? Hey, guys. Appreciate you taking my call. Sure.

I have a plumbing business. It's a one-man show, so it's only me. one question is should I have a separate emergency fund for that business my other question is I have some debt like a van and I also have some plumbing equipment debt I can write that off 100 percent but should I just pay it off instead yes and in short number one you should have a separate checking account and savings for the business as some reserves there? So you have that separated? It is separated, but I didn't know if I actually needed a six-month emergency fund. No, a business wouldn't operate like your personal household would, but your reserves

will sort of act like that. And as you've done the business over a long period of time, you'll kind of know what kind of emergencies you might be facing in a business situation. And part of that is reducing your risk will leave you not needing to touch that. And so part of reducing risk is getting rid of that debt. Because the debt isn't, you know, Joseph's plumbing business. You signed the dotted line on that. So it's your personal debt. Correct. So I would pay it off. I don't, I'm not a fan of this like, well, I can write it off. It's not a dollar for dollar deduction here. Right. And so. It's not a big deal. I mean, I have, so I have a, I could pay it off. I I have $127,000 in my personal account.

Awesome. And what's the debt? I have $25 in my business account. I have a $20,000 emergency fund separate from that in my savings account. Everything is paid off except for my house. I owe $32,000, and my payment is $21, $21,000 a month. What's left on the van? $40,000 on the van and $25,000 on equipment.

So I can pay it off without a problem So what is keeping you from doing that? It's almost like rent-to-own So I was thinking It may be safer to keep that money on hand But also I have no problem with I'm not in love with the money I have no problem with letting it go and paying the debt off

Yeah, it's not rent-to-owned That analogy is kind of weird for me But this is a van that is depreciation every day and the debt is not doing anything and your what's your interest payment on that 6.39 so what's the monthly payment on the van 669 yeah none of this makes any sense so you're burning you said there's 211 plus 669 no the 211 211 is home payment is oh 211 11 dollars a month so how much will you free up by paying off these debts $1,400? A month? Yes. And you have the money, you have the cash to pay off the plumbing equipment plus your house.

Right. If you just, like, wrote a check today and we're done with all of this and invested all of those payments, you'd be so wealthy, you would laugh at the tax write-off money you'd be making. Now, I am 50, and I have zero retirement. Even more. This will free you up to put $1,400 away into retirement accounts now. What stopped you from investing? I just started this business a couple of years ago, so my cash flow hasn't always been what it is today. So you're full-time plumbing? I haven't paid off the house. Yeah, full-time.

Good for you. I have not paid off the house because at $211 a month, I would rather have the $32,000. I could collect cans and pay $211 a month. That has been my logic on that. No, we've heard that. We've heard that a million times. How much is the van worth? It's brand new. I just bought it in February. Well, how much is it worth? I know what you owe on it. What could you sell it for? I honestly have no idea. I paid $54,000 for it, so I've already paid it down $14,000 in the last, since February.

All right. I mean, a van is a van. It's got all your plumbing tools in it, correct? Correct. Nobody's riding in it. Just you. Just me. So you could get a cheap van, get it wrapped nice, and probably save $20 grand right there. You sold it and got a cheaper one. That's where I'm going.

Well, the thing, the equipment I have will absolutely not fit in a minivan. I never said minivan. Nobody said a minivan. I'm just saying you didn't need to buy a brand new van. No, no, no. I actually would really respect a guy who rolls up to be my plumber in a minivan. I know I'm not getting ripped off if a guy shows up in a minivan. I was getting ready to say that.

some reason I trust a plumber in a minivan. I see a plumber in a fancy new van. I go, he's going to price gouge me because he's got payments on that thing. I agree with the big fancy wrap. I just want to see a little square sign on the side of a red minivan. Well, let me play this game with you. If you freed up the mortgage plus your debt payments, is that now like $1,600 a month? Correct, yes.

And could you invest more on top of that? Oh, yeah. Okay. So how much could you invest every month on top of the $1,600 to get set for retirement? on top of the 1600 I could do another 2,000 it's 3,600 a month you could just start shoveling into investments yes okay well from age 50 to 67 you shovel 3,600 away you could end up with almost 2 million dollars correct yep I've done the math on that well math is one thing doing it is a whole other thing isn't it well I just now sort of got turned on to Dave Ramsey so I'm kind of good

Learning. Yeah, he's impossible to make sure this was the right step before I paid. Yeah, we recommend any business, any entrepreneur, do it with cash and move at the speed of cash. Do it slow. Don't get ahead of yourself. Don't say you're investing in the business by taking on payments or new fancy equipment. Just cash flow it. And it's going to reduce your risk, increase your peace, increase your chance of surviving if something were to happen in the business.

And I hope the business continues to thrive. Sounds like you're doing great. Yeah, me too. I appreciate it. Yeah. I want to... I'm taking the time to speak with me. Yeah, Joseph, listen, you're doing great.

I would love for America to hear this. How long ago did you become a plumber and what was the qualification process like? What was the length of that and the cost to become a plumber? Well, so I started my business. I just got started in this four years ago. Okay. How long was the qualification process? If someone wants to become a plumber, they have to be an apprentice for a couple of years.

then they have to be a journeyman for a couple of years. So you're looking at, you know, four years. Right. Okay. And you did that? You only have to be, you only need a master's if you're doing, if you're pulling permits. You don't have to have a master's. Right. How much did it cost for you to become qualified?

It doesn't cost anything. I mean, it costs the price of a test. I'm just asking you a straightforward question. I can't get the answer. A couple hundred dollars. There we go. Couple hundred bucks for you to get that training. And now you're making what?

As a solopreneur. Well, this year it'd be $2.50 before taxes. Ding, ding, ding. This is what I wanted people to hear that. All right. The trades are exploding. This is a guy who's crushing it. Way to go, Joseph.

Thanks for sharing that. And for every five plumbers that are getting out of the business, there are only two to replace them. Exactly. Which means we desperately need people like Joseph to get in the game. There's a massive opportunity right now in the trades, and this is real life example. So four years, which is what undergrad would take you, a few hundred. bucks, which is a heck of a lot cheaper than undergrad, and you could be making a quarter of a million dollars running your own business, owning your time.

You didn't notice any student loans in there, did you? Nothing. Nothing in there. Telling you, folks, this is amazing. Little PSA to America's parents that listen to the show and grandparents who have influence over young people, the world is changing. And this idea that a college degree is the only way to succeed is crumbling, and it's crumbling faster. Gallup put out new data, George, first of this year. Forty-six percent of American

parents. Listen to this, folks. Forty-six percent of American parents would prefer their kids go into trades instead of a college path, and that is because they see the handwriting on the wall. And I'm telling you, we've got to stop looking down our nose at the trades, because you're going to look up five years from now, 10 years from now. There's going to be a lot of millionaires in this country who did exactly what Joseph did. It's, it may be. be a little dirty during the day, but you can come home to Egyptian cotton sheets. All right? This is good, honorable work, and it creates jobs. Remember, small business is what fuels the American economy. There you go. Thank you very much, America.

You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car, but it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage. To protect your biggest assets, I recommend using Ramsey trusted pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsey trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at ramsysolutions.com slash insurance. All right, our question today is brought to you by Y Refie. budgeting, you've tried making minimum payments, but those defaulted private student loans are

still weighing you down. Why Refi might be able to help. Learn more at yrefi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey. It's not available in all states. Today's question comes from Tucker in Washington. The company I've been with for just a few months is experiencing financial struggles. Upper management has mentioned in a couple of company-wide meetings that there are only 10 months of cash left, and we have had negative cash flow month after month. I left my previous job because my manager was extremely toxic and the company culture wasn't good. Will two employment stints of less than a year be a red flag on my resume? I just got married six months ago and we want to start a family soon, so my job will be our sole source of income.

Would it be wise to begin looking for another job, or should I wait and see what happens with the company in a year? Yes. I think you should start looking yesterday. Here's the narrative, because I understand the question, George, two jobs on the resume. You've got to tell the truth. You don't bash them. You say, okay, here's what happened in the last job. And got this other job. This is the story I was told.

Story change. Here's where we're at. So I've had some really bad luck, you know. And that's different than you flaking. It's not you job hopping. Yeah. So just control the narrative and absolutely be looking. and don't have any shame over this.

You know, you just got to take control of the situation. Now, we'll tell you this. The job market is a lot tougher right now. It's what we call a soft job market where companies are sitting tight, kind of waiting to see what's going to happen with all the tariffs. That's one of the big things, a lot of uncertainty right now as to what's going on there. And the economy is, you know, with interest rates, what the Fed going to do. So when you get into a lot of uncertainty in the macro economy, companies tend to just slow down when it comes to hiring.

And we're seeing that. This is a soft market. Unemployment is up into the low force. So, yeah, I would not, you know, ride this out and ride the wave. Not smart. And then just wait until the buzzer beater when they lay you off to go, oh, I guess I should look for a job. Yeah. Especially in this case because he's the sole income.

And the writing is very much on the wall here. They're telling you straight up. And you know what else? I want to make sure to cover this. If your wife has the ability, I don't know what the family situation is, but if she has the ability to work, I would absolutely for a season, if you can do it, and it makes financial sense to do it, I would do it in this time as well. Stacking up a little bit of extra cash that might be able to help us if this thing goes and falls before you can get another job. So this is when we act like a storm is coming. You know, what do we do when we know a storm is coming?

And let's act accordingly. So really, really important. Ethan is up in Athens, Georgia. Ethan, how can we help? Hey, guys. Thanks for taking on call. I really appreciate it. Sure.

So I was driving a 2005 Toyota Camry, and it got totaled. I have a year left in law school, and I'm trying to set a budget. I'm buying a new, well, not a new car, but a used car. Did you get any money for the Camry? Yeah, so I got $6,000 for the Camry. I have about 10K in liquid cash and then another 40,000 right now in stocks. Non-retirement, you've just been investing on the side in single stocks? Yeah, well, not single.

I've been trying to buy like the bonds and mutual funds and stuff like that, but yeah. Okay. Do you have any debt? No debt whatsoever. Wow, you're going through law school debt-free? Yes, sir. How'd you do that? Did you get a full ride or what?

Yeah, I did. Wow. Okay. Stud. All right. So you're asking us how much cars should you get? Pretty much, yeah. Well, I mean, you're going to want something that'll get you through law school and beyond.

And so you can spend more than 6K. You're in a good spot financially. Are you working at all? Do you have any income right now? Right now I have no income, but I already have a job set for next October once I pass the bar. Fantastic. And will it be in the current area? or are you moving somewhere?

A bit more towards Atlanta. Yeah. Well, George, I don't know if you got a formula for this because he doesn't have an income and he has no debt and he's going to be making really good money. What kind of money are you going to be making first year? I'll be making $190 my first year. Whoa.

Bro. Debt-free making that kind of money? With a full ride. Are you single? Yeah, not right now. Not for long with those numbers. There it is. Hey, the lady.

will be coming around for that one. I would just be reasonable. For any young person, especially dudes, they tend to over buy in car because they want to flex. I hope that's not you. You don't seem like the type. So I would just buy something reasonable.

What have you been looking at? I know you've been car shopping a little bit. Yeah, I've been just looking at you, Camry, something like late teens with less than 100,000 miles. That's something newer, but I'm not spending everything that I have. How much are those cars?

between 15 and 20,000? I was going to throw the number of 20 out and let George react to me, just based on your situation. Yeah, 20 felt like my upper limit for just a young dude. Yeah, I'm telling you hitting flashy. Top line 20 is what I was going to say. Okay. And if you need to sell some stocks to do it, I would. I wouldn't be in any single stocks.

I don't know why you're even in bonds at this age. You're not 70. You shouldn't be worried about long-term market returns if you want short-term. I think he's an old soul. I'm going to guess he's an old. old soul. Is that true? Yeah, something I inherited to my grandpa. Okay, there we go. I could hear it on you. You are very mature. I would go car shopping. I would stick to independent, used car dealerships and Facebook marketplace, get a pre-purchase inspection on whatever you get. And I would also search the

exact year-make model, do your research and know exactly what recalls have been made on that exact model, what are the classic repairs that tend to happen on that car? And that will give you a lot of confidence as you step into it. All right, awesome. Thank you so much, guys. I really appreciate it. And listen, buyer beware, tight-lipped when you go to the car dealer. Don't tell them you're paying cash right up front. Don't tell them that. Don't tell them you're in law school. Don't tell them you got a $190,000 job waiting on you. They will be on you like vultures on roadkill. I mean, all over you. So just keep it tight like you're playing some post. focus on the out-the-door price. That's right. That's it. That's what I want to focus on. I don't

want to talk about payments. That's right. Here's my budget. And if you walk in with a check for that amount, and you have some walkaway power? Oh boy. I love that game. These guys will start singing. They really will. They'll line up like a choir for you. You know what I mean? They'll be the manager, the assistant manager. You ever seen these guys? It's hilarious. There's always like seven people in the back. You know what I mean? They have to go into the back to talk to some serious figure. Always love that. Oh, my manager's going to take me to the cleaners if I give you this deal, man. But I'll do it for you. Hold on one second. Don't tell anyone. Give me a few minutes. I got to go back in it. It's like he's the wizard of Oz. Do they all go to the same

heby-gibi schleazy school? I think they have a little room with like a water cooler and they go and they just look at their phone for two or three minutes and then they come back and then they play the next negotiation game. They take a little vape break and then come back and say, all right. I think it is a vape break. I could get in a lot of trouble for this one. But we can make it work. This is the best I can do. I love that one. I can't stand it.

I can't either. Can I walk back there with you? Because I think we could speed this negotiation up. If you walked me back to the Wizard of Oz, I'm sure it's okay. I'm sure he's going to be fine if I go back there with you. But it's the whole, you all stay out of here. Can I get you something to drink? Can I get you a bottle water?

No, you can get me a good deal. That's all I'm here for. I don't care about the bottle water. My wife and I brought a cooler. We have our own bottle of water My wife can't go into those places She has to sit in the car Because she's too uncomfortable

Too stressful, is it? Yeah, I like the conflict I like the negotiation You do You know what you do? You get right to the fees Yeah You go from the window price to

What are the fees on this? I know you Oh, I don't do any If they have anything Other than a small dock fee I'm walking away They start pitching me on Hey we did the window tint

And we get the time Nope, I'm out of here I'm getting out of here Sales price plus tax Maybe a $100 dock fee or I leave You might as well be on Shark Tank I bet you sit there and you cross your arms Oh the guys at the dealership

They see me coming in They go, not today I don't want to deal with this guy Yeah My last car though The finance office called me and said Hey we noticed you were paying cash And we just think that's a terrible idea

It's a much better It's smarter to finance Did you scream? Do you know who I am? I almost went Hey just Google me I can't deal with this right now That's a flex That's a flex

Yeah Hey listen Mr. Finance manager. I'm going to send you a link. I'd like to click on it. It's called Breaking Free from Broke. You should read it. Oh, look at that, folks. He snuck the book promo in just like that. I didn't even see it coming. It's a great book, wherever books are sold. Our scripture of the day comes from Hebrews 13 verse 7. Remember your leaders who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith.

Our quote from John F. Kennedy, forgive your enemies, but never forget. get their names. All right. Two interesting things there. Contrasting. I'll chew on that. Chew on that. Tyler is up in Maryland.

Tyler, how can we help? Hey, how are you? Good. How are you? I'm all right. How can we help? Well, I was calling me because I found myself in a situation with my wife and I. We recently moved October of 2024 from our first home to this.

in our second and it was pretty much at the time of our price range pardon me we want I've lived in eight different homes growing up and we have a we have a two-year-old son and just found out we have another one on the way

and I was really yeah he's a tornado but it was really important to me that like we both wanted him to have like a house that he grew up. You know all of our kids just had a house they grew up in so we stretched

We knew that we would be a little house poor, but we figured if we can, you know, tighten our belt and, you know, spend wisely that eventually our salaries will, you know, kind of, I guess, catch up to where our mortgage was. And that was before, you know, I really added to Dave Ramsey and learn more about finances. So since then, we've been, you know, gone on a year here. And the mortgage is about $4,500 a month, and our net income per month is about $9,400. So I think it's like a 47%, which is double what I know is recommended. So in addition to that, we have, we only have one car payment, which is my truck, three years left on it, about $15,000 left. What's the payment?

Payment's about $5.36 a month. My wife also has student loans, which is probably a total like $20,000. And it was through the carrier that she was using, I guess, had a class action lawsuit. I guess somebody advised her not to pay us, so we stopped, and then that's now bringing her credit down. So now we're trying to get current on that. And then we have a credit card debt, which is probably totally, around 20,000 between three different cards. So pretty much what I'm thinking,

what I think is inevitable at this point, you know, with having a family and was now realizing how expensive kids are and, you know, unknown expenses and activities for them and toys for them. I'm kind of thinking getting out of this house might be the best thing for our family to downsize to a smaller house with a much lower mortgage. And I just want to get your take on that.

What could you sell the house for, and what's left on the mortgage? So we bought it for about $600, and this is about a year ago. We're thinking about refinancing, which would then put another $15 onto it because of the fees. But I think we won't get $600. I don't think it's going to be, and it would be a short sale. Why would it be a short sale? Well, I don't, it was on the market for probably about four months. It started out like 750 and it went all the way down to 600 before we bought it.

How much did you put down? We didn't put anything out, bought to the VA. Man, this is heartbreaking. Yeah. it's i i'm having buyers remorse and i think i'm i'm starting to realize what's what's probably inevitable where my wife is like very in love with the house and you know it's perfect for a big family which is what she wants but i just you know i come home and it's like i just feel like there's just no peace at all like i know is she aware of this is she aware of how you're feeling

he's aware yeah i we've talked about her her Her game plan, which is what we're doing now, I'm giving her the grace of just seeing how it works, was tightening our belt more and not spending as much, whatever surplus we have at the end of, you know, each week or each month, our checking account will just apply toward bills. But when I do our budget between our net income and all the bills, or the credit cards, et cetera, We're like 1,300 in the hole. So you're going to continually go into debt at this rate? Yeah.

Yep. You can't even live off of $9,400 a month. Yeah. So there's no tightening. And is she working full-time? Yeah, we both work full-time. So there's no, you know, there's no dream here where we go, well, we're making double now because she's working full-time. So if there's no room here to wiggle on income, you don't see your end.

income shooting up in the next six months and you're going to continually go into debt, then I think we just have to cut our losses and get out of this house. I would try to still get as much as you can for it. Yeah. But you don't have any equity, so it doesn't really, it doesn't solve your problems. It's going to cost you money to get out of this house and you don't even have that money. Yeah. What could you sell the truck for?

On KB, it looks like it was a value of around $10,000, so I'm a little upside down on which is what I'm trying to put my, you know, I drill monthly for the Army. So I'm trying to put those checks toward this to pay it down as quickly as possible. Man. And this, I'm trying to figure out how you have $5,000 or $6,000 or $7,000 of expenses on top of the mortgage. Yeah. You guys are spending like you're in Congress. There's a lot of just entertainment, luxury, eating out here, I think.

I think it's more than just covering the bills. I agree My wife You know Well when we When we got in the house It was We were spending like kings

And queens It was our own fault You know We had a really A tough conversation About it About a month ago And

We're like You know We We really tried You know We went to like a cash Budget Where you know

We'll take out X amount Each week Once we get paid And this is what we Have to spend There's no credit cards We're not putting

I mean on debit card. But even in that, we're still in the hole. It's just between kids' stuff and now a new one on the way. I just don't see it working out in our favor by staying in this house. Yeah, I mean, you're going to – could you go rent somewhere for $2,000, $3,000? Yeah, in our area, there's some places that are rent for about $25,000 or $3,000. So that'll save you the $2,000 that you're losing. So instead of going 15 grand into debt, maybe we could save five grand.

Here's a question I have, George. Tyler, I'm asking this on your behalf. You know, every dollar, which is obviously it's not just a budgeting app. I mean, it's FPU. It's the baby steps. I mean, it's helping people. And when we talk about it on the show, we're telling people, this is real, that in less than 15 minutes, people are finding thousands of dollars or margin. We know that from every dollar.

That's what we're hearing. My question is, is if you're sitting in his kitchen right now, Okay. How much? Do I think you could find money. Oh, yeah. And that's why I'm saying whenever I see, well, the mortgage is 4,500, they're bringing in 10 grand. There's room here. There's some spending that we can ratchet down. I think there is. There's more cutting. It's going to be a fight. It's going to be, well, I'm used to doing this and now you're taking this away from me. And so I don't want this to be you versus her. This needs to be you walking hand in hand, looking in the same direction going, we need to come to Jesus meeting because we're going to go 15 grand into the hole. the way we're spending. We already can't get out of this as is. We need to do something drastic. And that means selling the house and renting and cutting our spending and working a second job for at least two years to clean this up. I really want you guys in every dollar. And that's going to be our gift to you. So Kelly's going to take care of it. You and your wife got to commit to using it. Do you understand what I'm saying? Because it literally, it will coach you up. It is so

unbelievable. All the new things they've added to it. So you guys are going to commit to to getting in control of the spending and finding ways to make some more money after selling this house, just to give you more margin. By the way, George, I want to mention this is super exciting. The premiere of the all-new every dollar is September 25th. You're going to see some amazing success stores. You're a part of that. That's right.

We want you to turn on your YouTube notifications to get notified when the premiere drops. And I've said it a couple times a day just kind of naturally. George, 10 seconds, or give us five seconds on the new every dollar. It's unreal. Well, it's going to digitally coach you like we would, the Ramsey show and walk with you step by step through the baby steps on top of helping you do your budget. All right, remember there's only one way to get financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.