The Ramsey Show - Hope Is the Difference Between Victim and Victor

Episode Date: March 18, 2025

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Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Me and Dr. John Delaney are coming to a city near you on the Money and Relationships Tour. It's happening soon, so don't wait. Get your tickets at ramsysolutions.com slash tour. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show. We help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey your host George Campbell Ramsey personality number one best-selling author host of the George Campbell YouTube hit. He's my co-host today. Open phones here at 888-825-5225 the call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.

Adam starts off this segment in Knoxville Tennessee. Hey Adam what's up? Hey Dave we've been listening to you guys since about last May. Awesome thank you. We've gotten started on the budget and everything we started using the EveryDollar app right away. It seems like though that once we get it we've gotten things kind of ironed out in the budget, but now it always feels like there's a fight every time we go to discuss the budget. Um, mostly because she feels like I just make the budget and then go over it with her, but she always feels like I just make it and don't give her any input. Okay. So you're the, you're like like me you're the nerd in the house and

she's the free spirit. Yeah I guess so because for like the last six years we didn't even do a budget I would just work and she would take care of those and so now I've kind of taken that role. Sure but if we were to ask you who's the detail organized person is in your house that actually kind of has a love affair with spreadsheets it would not be her. No. It would be you. Okay that's my point. Okay so you know we used to do this long riff in Financial Peace University about nerds and free

spirits and one of the things we would teach the nerds is once you lay the budget out, slide it across the table to her and rule number one is shut up. You're not allowed to talk. You're only allowed to force her to talk. Rule number two is the free spirit must change some things in your perfect little budget. Otherwise it's not our budget, it's your budget.

And that's what she's griping about. Am I hearing you right? Yes, to some degree what am i missing that I guess my thing is because once we do it we discuss it I'll ask her you know is there anything that she needs that she sees we need to change and she'll be like well it's what it is and she'll just kind of go along with whatever we did well that's just an immature pouting. You know, because then later she's like, you never give me one. Did you hear me?

That's immature pouting. She's having a little girl fit. Why is she doing that? I can't say anything. Even though you told me to say something, I can't say anything. Did you smack her down every time she made a suggestion? I didn't smack her down but sometimes but

basically my point I'll say well we have to take money from something else to be able to apply that to that other account right what do you know where do you want where do you want to do that because this has to balance when we're done so which account honey if you want to raise the grocery budget by $75 which account do you want to take $75 out of yeah and's just math. Yeah, and that's what I tell her. How old is she? Yeah, into, she's 48. Why is she acting like she's 14?

This is, I mean, because you're at, unless you're really being abrasive or something in this, and I don't hear that in your voice, this pouting doesn't make sense. Does she just feel like it's restrictive and it's just not a fun thing to do? To some degree, yes. If we got her on the phone right now and we said, okay, share your side, what would she tell us that you're not telling us? Probably she feels like I'm, to some degree,

because I've asked her if she can, because she's on stage four cancer. Well, there's a detail. Let's not bury the lead there. She's going through something. Yeah, I mean, she is. But she is stable. And so she could go out, she's on disability.

So she could, you know, so basically we've asked if she could go out and work a couple of days a week doing Uber Eats. And she's agreed that, yeah, she could do that. But then it's like every week there's no there's no she goes out and she'll work all day with her sister or daughter and then next thing you know she can't do anything for two days because she's all completely exhausted that would be too I'm like I would just need a little bit of help you know to increase our budget just a little bit because right now we're set to be by 12 to 18 months to be consumer debt free.

Dave is a guest right now. I absolutely apologize to your wife for calling her a whiner in stage four cancer and I've discovered that now you are the whiner. And she won't work for me and she won't do what I want her to do and she goes with her sister. Oh my god, son Did you hear yourself? Seriously, I don't have an issue with her going and doing stuff. Yeah, you do She would she would been working for me in the budget instead

She went and helped her sister and now she's too exhausted with her stage 4 cancer bless her heart. Oh my god, man No wonder she doesn't want to talk to you. I'm serious. So now really you guys need to sit down with someone and start working on your relational skills, the two of you, as you navigate through getting out of debt and more importantly continuing to beat stage four cancer. Man bless her heart. She's really, I can't think of anything more devastating to try to work your way through than that. And that's, that's state, that's thing one, beat cancer. Get out of debt is way down the list after beat cancer. If it's delayed by six months because she can't go uber eats a few hours a week, that's okay. Yeah. We'll move at a slower pace. It is fair for you

to do a better job of drawing her in and getting agreement on the budget. It is no wonder she doesn't want to do that when you throw uber eats at a stage four cancer woman as the way to fix the budget. No wonder she doesn't want to vote in this thing. Because the situation is unreasonable. So you need to say, alright honey, I want to make sure more than anything we take care of you. And given that, this is how much money we have. Because you're not able to do a lot of stuff right now. And I understand that. So this is how much money we have. How do you want to

spend the money? That's us agreeing on the budget. Not you cracking the whip on her and making sure she goes out earn some money to in the middle of this medical situation. So oh man. Yeah. Wow. If you wanted to create more margin. I miss them occasionally George. I miss that one. That one drove past me. I never saw it coming. You never assumed that. We did., admittedly the lead was buried. Yes. We had no idea, but oh my gosh. Wow, okay, so here's the deal.

Let's kind of recoup for just a second away from Adam's situation. In general, my wife is the free spirit and it is not her nature to do conflict. She does not want to enter into discussion about where the money goes or whatever. It's easy for her to say whatever you want to do honey, which is a cop-out. And so

I, we've learned over the 30 years of doing this that we say no, that's not an okay answer. You have to give input, you have to take ownership, and you have to change some things in the budget so that you are in agreement with this wholeheartedly, not with your lips stuck out. And I've got to, as a the nerd, I've got to back off and give her lots of emotional and conversational room to be comfortable and safe in making those changes.

But if every time she suggests a change, I sigh loudly and roll my eyes, that probably is not going to invite change. An honest input. You're never going to get to unity through apathy. You've got to have people who care about this. That's a line. You can tweet that line. I'll tweet that.

Does Twitter still exist? Are we still doing that? You can't. X or whatever the flip they call it, but pre-E line. I don't know. Yeah, so anyway, yeah. Never gonna get to unity through apathy. You gotta have two people who care. So directed at the free spirit right there in general.

Plus or minus stage four cancer. This is the Ramsey Show. There's a time in your life and in the baby steps for renting, but you don't want to do it forever because when you rent you're still paying for a mortgage just somebody else's. Plus rent means instability in your budget because it always goes up, never down. So when you're ready to buy make sure you work with a mortgage partner you can rely on. Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is Ramsey Trusted to help you make the move from renting to home ownership wisely. Churchill understands that when you buy

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1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100. Brentwood, Tennessee, 37027. If you're a business owner or you know someone is, that is, you know one thing. Running a business is freaking hard. You open your own business, you will find out soon enough that your boss is a jerk. He will work you to death. He will grind you up like powder. Working for yourself will do that man because you're living the dream. Yeah baby it's hard and the challenges pile up, the fear can creep in, the loneliness can be real. I know I've run a business most of my life and we coached over 10,000 businesses through our Entrez Leadership Program.

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$29.99 and you get over $350 in free bonus items with instant access to the Entrez leadership hiring playbook. Hiring and firing is the toughest thing we do in small business. Early access to the e- the enhanced audiobook all of this pre-order at Ramsey solutions dot com slash store don't miss it Brandon's in Indianapolis hey Brandon what's up thank you for taking my call John I really appreciate it sure how can I help I was so I worked my way up in a company here in Indianapolis from the bottom and I got to go hike at high, take the pipeline position. Um, I did your steps. I won't do to baby step seven. We were in a great position.

I was getting ready to invest in possibly some rentals on the side. And then I was laid off and I need to know if I'm in a position to possibly do this and make this my dream. I wanted to work for myself for a while and kind of get out of the corporate world or if I'm dreaming and I just stay, stay in the corporate world. I've turned down two jobs so far and I just, I'm really not sure what to do. What were you making? 350,000.

Okay. Can you make that again? Uh, no, I won't make that much immediately. No, but there, there potentials there in a few years. But you can land on a quarter million, easy, right? Yeah. Okay. So the thing you want to measure against is, okay, if I do real estate and I make a hundred

thousand, I've lost a hundred and fifty. Okay. So if we're going to do real estate, we gotta make a quarter million or we gotta see a way to do that fairly quickly. I don't mind taking a step back as long as I can get back to where we are, but if you think, okay, I'm going to do flips and I can make a hundred thousand a year and that's all I'll ever make, I wouldn't do that. No, I'd do flips and go get a job because there's a quarter million dollars on the table. Yeah. I mean, what are you worth is what it amounts to and so how can we get the most value out. I mean you're, you're, what are you worth is what it amounts to.

And so how can we get the most value out of you without you losing your soul of course in the process? We're not doing that. But point being, if you can do something you like with a good strong company, make a quarter million. But if you could do real estate and make 300, let's talk about doing that instead. Can you? I don't know. I don't think I can immediately know. No, I mean it wouldn't be immediately. What are you talk about doing that instead can you? I don't know I don't think I can immediately know. No I mean it wouldn't be immediately what are you talking about doing investing and flipping or what are you talking about? I right now I've got about six hundred thousand cash okay and my goal with my goal would be to obviously buy a couple rentals and kind of get the ball rolling there and then I

don't need a lot I mean don't get me wrong I don't want to take a huge step back but I mean if you bought two rentals, they're not going to throw off on 600 grand, I mean, you'll throw off six or eight grand a month. Yeah. What were these offers you passed up? Um, another high paying position here in Indianapolis for a data, IT services, and then another company, another company doing very similar job

of what I was before. Did you have an idea that you might want to do flips because you can make more on that than you get the rentals or slow burn? They're great investments but they're slow burn. I would love to do flips. I just don't know anybody. I don't have anyone to trust in the area to do them with me. I don't know a good contractor. I don't know how to judge, you know, repairs. Yeah. Okay, because I could take the 600 and see making 300 with it. With doing flips? Yeah, but you'd have to know what you're doing. You know, you could also lose 300, but...

That's, yeah, I've heard so many horror stories. There's a lot of them. lose 300 but that's yeah I've heard so many horror stories. The other thing is obviously leave it in the market but you know I've done that I just really kind of wanted to try. Yeah but you can do all of that and still work which means we've got $250,000 a year laying on the table. So my point is if we're going to change careers let's duplicate your income not not retire. You're not, how old are you? 41. Yeah, you're not ready to retire.

You don't really do nothing. No, not at all. Yeah, I mean, and managing two rentals is far from a full-time job. You know, you buy two, $300,000 rentals, you put two tenants in there, and then what are you gonna do? Go play golf every day?

I mean, not a bad idea, I guess, but you can afford to do it, but I'm just thinking, what would I do if I was you? I would want to maximize my earning potential while heading towards the self-employment. So maybe you take the new job with the idea we're going to take three years of working on flips on the side and learn the flip business to where I can make really good money in the real estate business. And I'm going to move that way with some of this cash gradually with, you know, getting some people, getting contractors lined up, getting some people lined up that are in my corner that can mentor me on this,

find some people that are actually successful that aren't doing it on TikTok for God's sakes, but they're actually doing it. Okay. They're not just selling a weekend course to somebody for three grand. That's not what I'm talking about, but you get in there and find somebody actually doing this stuff and learn how to do it. You can make a transition in the real estate business. There's real estate agents that sell real estate that make more than 300 K. Yeah. And you could go that way. What would your ideal starter property be? I mean, if you, if you, what would you say the appropriate amount to kind of do my first one?

Yeah. I mean, you're, you're going to buy buy at 70% of value minus repairs and you can expect to net 13% on that formula. Okay. Because when you list a property at 100% of value it never brings that, it always brings 96% of value or thereabouts or less and then you're gonna give up closing costs you're gonna give up some points to commissions and you're gonna net walking away about 88% if you're lucky okay and so that means you're making 13 to 18 percent on your money but if you do that three or four times a year that starts

to sound like 40 or 50 percent on your money right yeah and so it's that that's per deal that's not per annum per annual so but that's the kind of you know and what are you looking for needle in a haystack but that's that's the formula that flips really work on that's what I've done 2,000 of them so that that actually does work. And then if he was just looking at investment property to rent what would the formula be for that? Well you're not gonna get to 300 to $300k off a $600k. He's looking at more like a few grand a month.

I'm trying to figure out a way he gets in the real estate business and makes two or $300,000 a year doing something in the real estate business. So it's probably going to move into that gradually while taking the $250,000 job. I like the idea of taking the quarter million job and using that to fund his real estate ventures. That's the move until it spins off in a flip. And go ahead and start

doing them as your side job. You know start start going okay I'm gonna do flips as a side. I mean you can do three or four flips as a side job without a trouble in a year and you make some money and learn the business and then you're not just throwing 600k against the wall and hope it sticks which is what these people on the social media crap do. But I'm talking about people that actually really do this. Now I will tell you, folks, I'll remind you, okay? We looked at on average, I kept our averages real close,

it was close to 200 properties we looked at to buy one. Wow. Most people aren't willing to put in that level of work. Well, man, that's why they lose money. Because your money on a flip is made when you buy it. You've got instant equity, you just gotta play it through. You gotta get the paint job done and the roof changed and the kitchen gutted and then put the thing back on the market as quickly as possible so the money turns as fast as possible.

And then you've got a hold to your price and you pay cash for it so you're not got some banker looking in your ear hole telling you what to do because bankers are idiots. So that's the last person you want running your business. Believe me. And so you know all of that you're paying cash for it so you buy a $200,000 property you're buying it at 140 and these 20 repairs which means I'm buying it at 120 put the 20 in it and I got 140 in it I'm gonna make 10 to 18 percent on that on average when I roll that money over but you're looking forever to find that deal this is a full-time I mean this can be a lot of work it'll be a lot of work but I

think you can do some on the side and begin to get your foot in the water in the meantime go back to making some good money you're only 40 years old this is the Ramsey Show. by every company you've ever done business with lives online. Your bank, your doctor's office, retailers, the apps on your phone, the gas station where you have loyalty rewards, they all store your info online making them ripe for a cyber attack or data breach. That's why I've been telling people for almost 25 years they need an ID theft protection plan and the only one I've ever recommended is from Zander Insurance. They monitor your personal and financial info, even your home title,

and take over the work if you become a victim. It's the most thorough and affordable plan out there. I even have it for my family and our entire team. Visit zander.com or call 800-356-4282. In the lobby of Ramsey solutions on the debt free stage, Keegan and Yvonne are with us. Hey guys, how are you? You're good. Great. Where do y'all live?

Lexington, Kentucky. Awesome. Beautiful area. Yep. So how much debt have you two paid off? Uh, 148,000, $651. I love it. How long did that take? 36 months. Good. And your range of income during that three years?

So three years ago we started about 136,000 and just this past year ended about 270. Oh, I love doubling it in three years. Nice job. What do y'all do for a living? I'm the general manager of a hotel. And I work in sales and pools. Okay. Yeah. Very good. So business is good. Huh? Yeah. In both cases. Yeah. Cause you're in, your incomes have gone way up. Yeah. Yeah. Excellent. What kind of debt was the 149,000?

It was actually our house. Oh, look at it weirdos. You have a paid for house, that's so weird. I love it. How old are you two? 44, both. Wow, what's his house worth? I say 800, he says 650.

Yeah, probably 650 in reality. Yeah, probably 750, I think she's right. All right, she wouldn't sell it for 650, I can tell you that. No. Good, way to go. How much money in your old nest eggs, your retirement accounts and so forth?

About 240,000, and 401. So we're gonna call you 44 year old Baby Steps Millionaires then, huh? Yeah. Getting close. Wow. I love it. Way to go guys. I'm proud of you. So a lot of what helped. Hell in the world. That's so cool man. Yeah a lot of what helped too. I did a side hustle. Uh-huh. What was that? Just taking care of pools and hot tubs. Oh okay. Cleaning, maintenance that sort of stuff. So yeah, so that's what I work doing. So just after hours before work, after work, just was doing that. I could turn into some real money.

Yeah. So you're in pool sales. And then you're like, hey, by the way, I can maintain this for you. Yeah, I know a lot about chemistry of water. So just taking care of pools, cleaning, maintenance, that sort of stuff. No one wants to deal with it.

No, we don't offer that at my work. So I would just do it before and after work. So no competition to the balls. That's good. No, yeah Very good, man. Yeah, very big difference So so doing this and probably what you have discovered in the pool space is is that if you actually show up Yeah, if you just do that, you know, there's no competition Yeah, cuz they just don't even show up. Much less, you know, and you can charge almost anything you want.

Cause you actually showed up. It's crazy. There's not many people that do it. Or know what they're doing. They don't know what they're doing and they don't show up. Can you tell this is happening? So anyway, very cool man.

I'm so proud of y'all. Congrats. So what happened three years ago, they got you on this whole thing and this Ramsey thing. Cause y'all have been married a while, right? How long have you been married? 20 years. 20 years, okay.

So married 20 years. So we never had any depth, anything like that for like cars. It was always just the house. My mom, she's actually over here. She helped kind of lead the way. As for being kind of the first gen, you know Dave Ramsey, you know changing the tree Mm-hmm the family tree. So she really did that and um, so she was following us Yeah, she's always look up after 17 years of marriage and went. Okay, we're gonna pay off this house

Yeah, yeah a lot of it was that but then just you know We did make the mistake of when we moved in our home 10 years ago, doing that 30 year fix. So when COVID hit, we refinanced and to 15, and that just really made a difference. We did it with a local credit union, and by doing that, really showed like on my accounts,

I could see the difference in traction of like hey we can get this fade off. Well so much more is going to principal on that 50 year instead of interest. Yeah just made a big difference there and then also where it was a local credit union just whenever I got on my accounts I would see a negative so it just made me feel like we need to get in the positive you know. Yeah. Our son's here he's 17, our oldest is in college. So, just wanted to get it done before they started college.

Yeah, well now you got all your cash freed up and you can pay for college. Yeah, excellent. Well done. We have 529, we have that all set up and taken care of, yep. Very good, very good. What was the hardest part of this whole thing?

Just all the work, all the hours. This past year was a lot of work. No shopping. Yeah, no shopping. That's right, we're getting the house paid off, yeah. I wouldn't call it no shopping. We still, we were pretty, we were pretty lenient. Not enough shopping for her.

How's that? Not enough for her. Yep, but she checked out your alls. Little shopping over here and got some shirts and souvenirs That's a swag from the Ramsey cafe store. That's awesome. Yeah, we stayed in a Franklin last night. So it was nice. Yeah, yeah and made a fun trip out of it. Yeah We're glad you're here was proud of you guys. Yeah, I'm sure your mom's proud of you She made the trip with you to cheer you on right? Yeah

How does it feel to be 44 years old, have no payments in the world, and already be millionaires? Yeah, yeah it's crazy. It's just kind of surreal. I never saw it. Yeah, never thought. Yeah, it's just different doing the budget and stuff now, just not having the mortgage and throwing extra extra on it, you know for years We just felt like we didn't have money even though we we did we just wanted to You know actually You know get the house paid for get everything paid for and just now all the money we have it's ours

We you know, we can do what we want. I love it. I love it. I'm proud of y'all. Very, very, very well done. Very good. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? Just, I think just making the budget and then just being on the same page with your spouse and both agreeing on things. Makes a big difference, but the budget's big.

So, yep. Yeah, really good. Good job, guys. And working your tails off while you're at it and a lot of work. I'm scared to work Yeah, yeah a lot of work So you know now that that's paid off we can kind of scale back a little bit and take it easier And have you cut the side hustle have not it's actually getting larger, so I don't know So we don't know what the future might lie, but we'll see what goes on. God's sakes, hire somebody to go do it. Yeah, well my son's done a little bit of it, so he's helped out.

That's good. Family business is brewing. Yep, I like it, well done. What big thing are you guys gonna do to celebrate, other than making the trip here to do this? Take her shopping some more. Shopping's free. There's a theme here,. I think yeah, we got a trip planned out West We do a lot of snow skiing so we met actually in Deer Valley in Utah

So yeah, we're gonna be we're gonna be going out there and spring break. Very cool I'm up in there, so I'm sure she'll Find something we were Sharon and I were just there with two of the grandsons We just took them skiing out there the other day. Oh nice. Yeah. Beautiful. It is beautiful. Well done guys. Proud of you. Excellent job. Alright bring your son up and you said he's 17? 17. Yeah. 17 and his name is? Nico. Nico. Alright well done. Good stuff. Alright it's Keegan, Yvonne and Nico Lexington, Kentucky a hundred and forty nine thousand paid off in thirty six months making one thirty six to two seventy house and everything

That asset added with their other assets makes them baby steps millionaires at they follow the baby steps and they did it at age forty four You're looking at real people that did it boys and girls. This is how it's done It can be done in America, but you have to take the bull by the horns and real people that did it, boys and girls. This is how it's done. It can be done in America, but you have to take the bull by the horns, and they did, they did it. They took the pool equipment out and used it all evening after work and used it to get out of debt.

Well done, good stuff. Keegan, Yvonne, and Nico, count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. All right, three, two, one. We're debt-free. Yeah! Yeah! Woo! Woo! Woo hoo hoo hoo! All right, three two one We got a shriek out of a Vaughn she was too excited to even yell or just a shriek was perfect That's the I'm going shopping shriek. Yeah, it sounded like she won a game show. I think

Oh, I love that that's incredible. I love it. Very well done you guys. Fabulous. Hey, the point is it can be done. And the point is it's not easy, but 100% of the time it's worth it. I've never had ever, have I talked to someone that I talked them into sacrificing to get out of debt, I always ask ask was it worth it? 100% have said yes. No one said, oh Dave it was awful. I wish I had stayed in debt. I would have been better off. No one has ever said that to me in 35 years of doing this. 100% of them feel better. Free. Financial peace. Two words that don't go together like airline service. This is the Ramsey shot.

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Today's question comes from Justin in Minnesota. Many people think that for a person to become wealthy, other people must lose wealth because it's a limited pie that is sliced up unequally. I think wealth can be created through innovation, for example, and therefore not limited. What is your opinion of this? Well, Justin, you would be correct. This is a great philosophical... The pie theory is someone that is ignorant of basic economics. The size of the economy shrinks,

that's called recession, grows, grows too fast and too much, it's called inflation. The economy is constantly growing in size. The number of dollars moving around the economy today is way different than it was in 1776, darling. So this idea that we've simply been swapping of the slices of the pie around since 1776, we would all still be living in log cabins shooting muskets. That's dumb, okay? Obviously the economy, the size of it changes. So you don't, if someone that believes that by taking... by getting

money that someone else is being taken from automatically is a fixed pie theory and it just shows ignorance of economics. So simple. A good way to explain... I love Rabbi Lapin's picture. It's one of my favorites of all times on this. He said the economy... and he's an orthodox Jewish rabbi, wrote a wonderful book called Thou Shall Prosper about prosperity. He said the... and he's an orthodox Jewish rabbi wrote a wonderful book called Thou Shall Prosper about prosperity. He said the and he addresses this exact issue. He says the economy is not a pie where if you get a bigger slice someone else gets a smaller slice. The economy is more like a candle.

When you light it, it doesn't take away from yours. It just adds light. And so the economy, because money moves just exactly like that, you can show, you can show several examples on how money actually grows. So Justin, you're right, innovation isn't a good example of that. And so money is literally created and no one is the lesser for it. Now, if there are only two people on the planet, when I took,

when George took some of my money, I would have less, he would have more. If we both placed a bet and I was right and Dave gives me his money, he lost, I win. That's where that would make sense. Exactly. But the stock market is different. If an Apple share goes up in value because the company is worth more and they make great products, nobody lost in that scenario. Because they sold more of those little iPhone thingies.

Hello. And that's why Apple has more money than Egypt, literally. And so it's pretty crazy. Yeah, but that's it. And so economies are created. And you can also, another place to look at that, Egypt made it come to mind, but not picking on Egypt, that's just a joke, but it's also

happens to be statistically true. But if you go to a country that is underdeveloped, that has a weak economy, what is the difference in that in a what we call a developed country where it has a strong and booming economy? It's not that one of them was issued a larger pie by God. It's that the booming economy grew by innovation, by industriousness, by service, by whatever it is they're doing, and it causes the dollars or the currency. And the GDP will expand?

The GDP, the gross domestic product, which is the total of all goods and services sold in an economy. And so, and that's why some of these comparisons by some of these wealthy quality people are the people like they're arguing back during Obamacare they're arguing about well Norway has free health care well Norway's economy is the size of Atlantis it's not even in the same ballpark it's like tricycles go slower than motorcycles too honey so i mean it's like no kidding,

it's a different thing, they don't even belong in the same sentence. Again, just shows the sheer freaking ignorance of people on basic economic stuff. Well Norway has free healthcare. So does Murfreesboro, Tennessee. I mean, no it doesn't, but I mean good God, that doesn't even show up y'all.

I mean come on. So it's the same kind of thing that goes on, but it always comes back to the underlying emotion is hope versus hopelessness, is scarcity mentality versus abundance mentality. The people that Justin that are coming at you with this there They have e or as their spirit animal. So I go it's bad. It's always gonna be bad It's always been bad the little man can't get ahead Because the big guys taking all the pie

And there's perpetual freaking whining. It's unbelievable perpetual freaking whining. It's unbelievable. Instead of getting up, throwing your shoulders back, leave the cave, kill something, drag it home, shut up. So it's basically I'm broke because other people are rich and that's not fair. Well, because I refuse to actually look at the real problem which is the guy in my mirror.

It's like I'm gonna blame Dunkin' Donuts because I have a belly, because I can't stay away from their donuts. It's not Dunkin' Donuts because I have a belly, because I can't stay away from their donuts. It's not Dunkin' Donuts fault, it's Dave's fault. He eats too many freakin' donuts. That's Dave's fault. You know, there's a reason I don't look like Mr. Universe. And it's not Dunkin' Donuts fault.

Depends what universe. Or, well, that's true. But Krispy Kreme either, by the way. So we'll just be a multiple. It's their fault for making addictive products. You know, it's their fault. They made an addictive product. The hell that sugar just made me wanna stand over there

every time the hot light comes on. Oh my God, am I a victim of this? No, okay, so me too, boys and girls, me too. But you need to decide who you're gonna blame in this because it's the difference between scarcity mentality and abundance mentality. It's the difference between fixed pie and abundance mentality. It's the difference between fixed pie and candles. It's the difference between hopelessness and hope.

It's the difference between victor and victim. And all of these things line up and those things make you, are the things that are going to make you successful or not successful. Not the fact that someone got yours so you can't get it out of the little fixed pie. I think I need a cheesecake now. I think I'm getting hungry thinking about all this. Oh, there's a lot of food in this, all these analogies. The extension of this is should billionaires exist? I've seen this come about.

Well, billionaires just should not exist, Dave. Apparently once you hit 999 million, that's it. You're fine, you're a good person. Once you hit billionaire, apparently you become a terrible awful human being is it true I thought it was millionaire but I mean I've heard the game now it's like wealth is evil no it's not people are stupid wealth is not evil well money is just like a brick you can build a hospital with it or you can throw it to a window the brick doesn't care.

But when you put it in the hands of a human being, you discover whether that human being is a moron or not. You discover whether they're a jerk or not. You discover whether they're a sweet, giving, generous person or not. When you hand people money, it doesn't cause them to become something. It reveals who they already are. doesn't cause them to become something, it reveals who they already are. Well, money run my children. No darling, your children were already idiots. You handed them money and proved it. It just lets them, that fire, adds some gasoline. That's not it.

That's just ridiculous. So this idea that, you know, somehow wealth is evil. Well, I mean, the Bible says that money is the root of all evil. See, that's what happens if you get your theology off a TikTok. The Bible does not say that. It says the love of money is the root of all evil, which is an indication not of anything about money or amounts of money. It's an indication of the character of the individual that touched it. So if you're gonna practice dad gum Christian

doctrine, actually learn it before you open your mouth. God, this stuff is so aggravating to me. And so this idea that somehow someone has done something wrong in America because they went and helped a lot of people and made a lot of money in the process. No one was pissed off when I sold a $12 book called Financial Peace out of the back of my car And I sold 10 of them and I was starving to death when I sold 10 million of them somehow people got pissed off now You're greedy day now. I'm greedy and I take advantage of poor people. Oh my god See this is the problem if you ever read comments if you read the comments after articles

You know why some species kill their young so oh my gosh Open phones here. That wraps that little rant up. Sorry to wind you up. I just wound them up and I let them loose. Shouldn't have given me caffeine and a good subject. And a good subject. There we go. I'll get you a donut for the next hour. Oh, I'll feel so much better.

All right, Dave, you have some strong opinions. Possibly, yeah. I think so. Okay, because you really prefer credit unions over big banks. So why is that? Well, credit unions, for one thing, are non-profit, which means that the members, the customers, own the credit union. So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing. So you get better interest rate on savings,

cheaper checking, and so on, that kind of thing. And what's more important than that though is the fact that the customer is the owner changes the spirit on the credit union. So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer-centric. Yes, well, and I think we have found one that is incredible, and that's Fairwinds.

They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer. You know, that's why we're partnering with them, because they've got a scope to be able to handle the Ramsey audience, and they're the right kind of people with the right kind of values, and they've done a really, really good job

with customer service, and the deals that they're offering the Ramsey Tribe is incredible yeah absolutely and you're right their customer service is unbelievable Winston and I just signed up and we got an account and I'm not kidding it took it took less than five minutes it was so user-friendly like the step-by-step approach was unbelievable and then the next day my phone rings and it says fair wins on my phone. So I answered it and talked to someone there and they said, yeah, they give calls to every new customer.

And so again, they just really care about your experience and I so, so appreciate that. So again, you guys, I know it can be a pain to switch banks or to open up new accounts, but Fairwinds, again, they make it so easy. Plus anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with them at fairwinds.org or on their app. And you'll have free access to over 33,000 ATMs.

Hey, you guys know how much I hate banks in general. And so for me to do this is a big deal. Talk to our friends at Fairwinds and check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey Tribe. You guys, it's incredible. Yeah, you guys, it's so easy to join Fair Winds no matter where you live. So go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to learn more.

That's F-A-I-R-W-I-N-D-S dot org slash Ramsey. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. George Campbell, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author and host of the George Campbell YouTube show that's a big hit on the Ramsey Networks. Be sure you check that out. He's my co-host today. Emmanuel is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hi, Emmanuel, how are you? Good afternoon. Hey, Ramsey, how are you doing?

Better than I deserve. How can we help? Yes, sir. So my question is in regards to how I can approach my parents to get them on board with the work and the baby steps and getting out of debt. Very difficult. Are you on board? I am. How's it going? Yeah, well it's, it's going. You know, we're, I'm actually working on step two right now. You know,

we're starting to, starting to see a little bit of a, how much debt have you paid off? I'm very hopeful. Um, I want to say somewhere around a thousand dollars right now. It's, it's very, very much in the beginning. Yeah. Well to start with convincing, how old are you? I'm 22. When you're 22 convincing your mom and dad to do anything is very hard. Period. Yeah.

Because you're facing what we call the powdered butt syndrome. Oh, PBS. Once someone has powdered your butt, they don't want your opinion, particularly on money or sex. So giving your parents advice on either one is very awkward, weird, and most of the time doesn't work. Right. Agreed?

Yeah. If you want to throw in one more, we can throw in religion. That'll piss them off too. You want to go completely sideways? Let's go on politics. Okay, that'll get them really going. And we could talk about vaccines if you really want to get them going too. But anyway, there's something to argue about all the time and you're not going to win an argument with your parents usually, even when you're grown. They have to get to be about 90 and senile before they actually listen to you. Okay, so that's very hard. It can be done, but it's very hard and if you are going to do it, you're early in

the process and the thing I've taught people, if you want to talk to someone about a difficult subject, don't talk to them about them. Talk to them about you. Tell your story. All I know is what happened to me, Dad. I had $25,000 in debt. I started working this 18 months ago. The $25,000 in debt is gone. I am so happy.

I feel so empowered. And you just keep talking about how great your life is because you did this and what you did. Tell your story in detail, in nuance until he finally says, well, I wish I could do that. Well, I think you can, dad. Could I show you? And then he kind of opened the door then, right? Right.

But if you just talk to him about, Dad, you need to get your crap together. I paid off a whole thousand dollars and I'm 22. He's not going to listen. Yeah. So live your life in such a way that they want to ask you for financial advice. Because unsolicited financial advice, especially coming from their kid, it's not going to land. It's going to hit deaf ears. And so you've got to live your life in a way where they go, man, you're like a new person. because unsolicited financial advice, especially coming from their kid, it's not gonna land.

It's gonna hit deaf ears. And so you've gotta live your life in a way where they go, man, you're like a new person. Like your whole demeanors change, you're happy, you're crushing it. What's going on? And then you go, well, I'm following this plan and it's really been helpful. And then you can tell them about your experience. Yeah, I had a buddy of mine when I was in my 20s that was a wild animal. He was out of control, drinking like crazy, doing drugs, rage, rage, rage, all this stuff.

And he started going to this church and he met God. And it changed all that. And he completely, it was like a different human being. And I'm like dude what happened well once I asked you know he was happy to tell me about Jesus okay but a guy from that church earlier in my life had come over and tried to tell me about Jesus and I didn't care anything about listening to him because he's telling me about everything's wrong in my life and I don't didn't really want to talk to him

about that and it was an unsolicited opinions coming into my life but this other guy observed his life change and I wanted what he had and it's one of the things that caused me to meet God was that guy's life change you know and so that the same thing's true with you man and so you go you go get your crap together get yourself out of debt start making some money look like a different version of you a better version of you, a better version of you, and they're going to start asking you how you did that. But the last people to come around are those that are the closest to you, particularly family. They're the last ones to come around. There are people in my family that still don't do this stuff. And I'm like world renowned,

like I'm freaking Dave Ramsey, okay? And they don't, and the people in my family don't do it. Okay, so there's no, no, you cannot make people do stuff. You just gotta go, here's what it is, and you can do it or not do it. And here's what'll happen if you do it, it's awesome stuff. But man, you can't make people do anything. So it's a great question. And a lot of people have asked that question over the years.

And I'm really glad you asked it again today. It's like when you learn this you're like I gotta tell everyone. Everyone is snubbed, they got to get on this, but it comes across sometimes a little bit too eccentric or judgmental or whatever. Don't tell people about Jesus until Jesus has changed your life, okay? They don't want to hear it. They won't hear it. And don't tell people about the baby steps until you've actually done it and you go this is what it is and don't want to hear it. They don't want to hear it. And don't tell people about the baby steps until you've actually done it and you go, this is what it is. And don't tell them all the things they're doing wrong.

Talk about what happened to you. You know, and my pastor used to say, a man with an experience is not at the mercy of a man with an opinion. And so all of a sudden when you talk about this is what happened to me, this is my experience, this is real, this changed my life, it changed my destiny, it changed you know, my spiritual walk changed my being a good husband, you know, my spiritual walk changed, and so then people want to know about your spiritual walk, they want to know what caused that, and but you can't do it otherwise, so it's good stuff, I love it. Nathaniel is in Ashland, Kentucky. Hi Nathaniel. Hi, how are you?

Better than I deserve, what's up? So I started a business and I'm wondering whether or not I need to invest by getting a loan or a lease through my company to build credit for the company. Neither. Okay. Why would a company need credit? Why do you need credit? What do you know? You already started it. It's already running, isn't it? Yeah yeah I'm 100% debt-free you know what are you making how much money you making about 20 a month 20 grand why you won't give that away to a bank well I don't want to but I went to a few places like rental places and things like that and like how you get off credit in order to you know have a line through them

what are you wanting to rent is I rent equipment a lot you can rent equipment cash you don't have to have a line of credit or company credit to rent. You can go down to freaking rent all and rent stuff like renting a backhoe or something for the day. I've been doing that and been paying for it but my brother he's a banker and he keeps telling me. Oh the banker told you you need to go in debt. Well that's a shock asking a banker if you need to be in debt is like asking a dog if it's hungry. Yeah. Of course the banker told you you needed to be in debt. No man, listen you're making more money in a month than your brother makes in a year. Probably. Yeah. Don't be listening to him. He needs to get in the backhoe business and get out of the banking business.

That's probably what he needs to do. But anyway, leave him out of this. No, that's funny. That's real fun I like that. You know a line of credit to rent the backhoe I've never heard that's a new one for me, but the banker one makes total sense It wasn't an actual experience he had it was a guy said I got a guy that happens to be his brother was giving an opinion about something that no one asked about we were just talking about that very similar situation Unsolicited. Yeah. No. Run your business debt free. Use the cash and pour back into it. I started this on a card table in my living room. We'll do 300 million

top line this year. Zero debt. Ever. I'm sitting in a building worth 650 million dollars. Zero debt. I'm sure bankers would still say, Dave, you need a line of credit, man. Zero debt ever. You know why I've got that money? Because I didn't borrow it and give it all to the bank. We used it to buy other stuff that caused the business to grow. Cash, organic growth. That's what you do, Nathaniel. This is The Ramsey Show.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, you've heard me say this a thousand times and I'm going to keep saying it. You're worth being well. And I believe therapy can help. Right now BetterHelp is offering 90% off your first week of therapy, now through March 31st. So if you've been on the fence, this is your chance to try therapy for a fraction of the cost. Because let's be honest, we all spend money on things we hope will make us feel better, like new clothes, organic groceries, gym memberships, but when it comes to actually digging in and getting real with our mental and emotional well-being, we hesitate.

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deloney to get started. That's betterhelp.com slash deloney. You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car, but it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage. To protect your biggest assets, I recommend using Ramsey Trusted Pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsey Trusted Providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at ramsysolutions.com slash insurance. George Campbell, Ramsey personalities, my co-host, Jeremiah is in Indianapolis, Indiana. Hi Jeremiah, how are you?

I'm doing good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can we help? So, I'm a 25 year old veteran, recently divorced, and I'm going to college full time. And I'm currently in about $27,000 in debt. And I guess I'm calling for a recommendation on, I guess, the best way to get out of this debt and build a better financial future for myself and my daughter. Good for you. Thank you for your service.

Thank you for your support. Which branch did you serve in? I was in the Army. Okay, thank you again, yeah. What are you studying in college? Computer IT. Good, and obviously the military benefits are paying for that, correct? Yes.

And you get a small stipend monthly also, right? Yes. Okay. So you have enough to eat on, but the debt is bearing down. Now, how much are you earning any income? Are you working at all? No. So all my income comes from the stipend from school and then my military disability. What's the nature of your disability? Mental health and a few like physical issues. Okay, you're in combat? No. Okay, all right. Um, hmm. Are you able to work?

Yes, I am. Um, but I do. Uh, I have 50 cuts, 50, 50 custody. Uh, but I have her throughout the day and her mom gets her, uh, two nights a week and then every other weekend. Okay, so how are you going to college doing that? All online. Oh, so it's flexible enough that when you don't have it you can do your coursework? Yes. How long before you graduate? I believe like two, two and a half years. Okay. All right. Well, I mean, you've had some, you've had some bad stuff happen to you.

You go through a divorce, you're coming out of the military on disability. I mean, you've got some things that have kind of knocked some of the confidence out of you, would that be fair to say? Yeah. Okay. Because I can kind of hear it in your voice a little bit. I think you're probably better than you think you are. I think I hear stuff down inside of you right there that's pretty incredible and I think you need to tap back into that and Dream again and smile again and get past some of these things that are in your rear-view mirror and quit living those over and over And over in your brain. Does that make any sense? Yeah, yeah

I mean, that's just a guy talking to another guy. Dr. John the therapist is not here So me and George are stuck with. Just us two. Well, what kind of debt is your 27,000? To break it down, my truck has 11,000 on it. It was paid off, but me and my ex-wife dumbly consolidated all of our loans and used the vehicle as collateral.

You got all the debt and the divorce? um, dumbly consolidated all of our loans and use the vehicle to this collateral. Um, you got all the debt in the divorce? No, she took her personal, uh, like debt in her credit cards and her vehicle that had collateral on it. And then I took all my debts. And her debts that were on your truck. No. Um, we split it up, uh, I guess I guess, evenly down the middle. I'm saying that you reconsolidated her debts and put them on your truck, you said, didn't you? Yeah, so both of our vehicles got used as collateral.

Oh, okay. So there was some of it on her, some of it. But I mean, you ended up paying her debt when you pay this truck off is my point so okay yeah all right so here's a good good news it's only 27,000 so if you go get a side hustle while you're going to school and taking care of your kid in addition to your stipend let's add 2,000 bucks a month to the budget and we'll be done in 14 months yeah that's 500 bucks a week 500 bucks a week yeah I mean that's not even a good part-time job yeah I guess I just need to figure out what to do with my daughter mostly because I only have, don't have her two nights a week and

every other weekend. You can make $500 during that time when she's not there or you can do something with IT while she's taking a nap how long has the divorce been final since beginning of February so I'm still kind of getting back on my feet yes you're still trying to breathe yeah yeah have you been making a budget every month? So I just recently got the every dollar back and put my budget together. Good. How's it looking? It looks awful. I don't have any income. Is it all expenses and very little income? Are you drowning every month? Yeah. Has to be isn't it? So,ly, I have money. It says I have leftover to budget

And I somehow don't have it at the end of the month. Yeah, well that's you that you got to impact the budget make the budget behave But dude a normal human being one month after divorce is not functioning at full capacity. A normal human being is still grieving, hurting, you know, playing the tapes over in your head, wondering. That's a normal person. If you were functioning at A plus level right now, I would call you weird. You're following me? It's like sociopath level. Yeah.

You're in low power mode right now. So I'm going to give you permission to cry a little, be mad a little. I'm going to give you permission to hurt a little. But I'm also going to say the way you fix this is create some income. Okay. It doesn't fix the emotional stuff, but you're in the midst of this emotional turmoil, go make some money and you can at least get rid of the stress that the debt is providing. And so let's figure out a way to bring in $ hundred or a thousand dollars a month I mean a week and then let's you know get out of debt as fast as we possibly can. The weird thing is that when you're working and you're

tired from working you don't spend as much time going over and over and over and over all the crap in your mind but when you're bored you go over and over and over and over all the crap in your mind. But when you're bored, you go over and over and over and over all the crap in your mind. And you spend. When you're too tired to even go spend money because you've been working, that helps too. You're right. You're right.

People that work all the time don't spend as much as those that sit at home and look at Amazon. When you're bored, that's when the scrolling starts happening. That's when the old cart gets full. Yep. And you start scrolling the ex's Instagram. See what she's up to. Ooh. Yeah, that's dark.

Ooh. That's real talk. That just happened. That just happened, yeah. Well hey, let me, if he doesn't already. Get off social media, get off Amazon, go work a lot. Can we give him every dollar premium in case he doesn't have it? Let's make sure we hook up our vet friend with that.

So hang on the line, Christian's gonna pick up, we'll make sure that you're not paying for every dollar premium as our gift. Yeah, for sure. Mike's in Hartford, Connecticut. Hey Mike, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hello, thank you very much, appreciate it. Sure, what's up?

Had a question about, well, my wife and I are in a healthy amount of debt and we're not sure if we should sell the house to get out of it to try and kind of reboot and start from ground zero. How much debt? Total is about a hundred and fifty. Counting the house or not? Not counting the house. How much of the 150 is cars? 20. Okay. What's the other one 30 about 70 in credit cards, 50 in college tuition, about 3000 in medical. Okay.

So the credit cards are where you're spending more than you make. Why? This house hurt us when we bought it. We had a lot of setbacks with the house and had to, cause we didn't have the money to do the work. We did. We did. What's the house worth today? Probably hard to say six 50. Four 75. Okay. So if you had $300,000 in the middle of the table and you didn't have this

house, would you go buy this house again? No! Sell it! I don't think you need to refinance. You just need to sell it, pay off your debt, rent for a while, and build a foundation. Yeah, sell it and pay off your debt. You got $150,000 left over because you're going to put $300,000 in your pocket and you got $150,000 start towards the next property and you're going to buy a much better property

next go-round because you are smarter from the pain. With no debt and an emergency fund. When you go through a job loss or job change and lose your employer-sponsored health insurance, there's no better time to try Christian healthcare ministries. That's right, there's another option besides COBRA to take care of your family during that time. Because if you didn't know, the cost of COBRA has gone up a lot in the past few years. And CHM is an affordable,

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So if you're going through a job loss, life change, or just want to explore other options to save on health care, CHM might be perfect for you. CHM programs start as low as $98 a month. So find out more at chministries.org slash budget. At chministries.org slash budget. I talk to people every day who wanna know how to do better in two areas, money and relationships. That's why I'm pumped to bring the money and relationships

tour to a city near you. Join me and Dr. John Deloney for a night that will challenge the way you think about this stuff and possibly change how you live forever. Starting April 21st we'll be in Louisville, then on to Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth and Kansas City. Grab your tickets at ramsysolutions.com slash tour before they're gone. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage, Eric and Kelsey are with us. Hey guys, how are you?

Doing good. Awesome, how are you guys today? Better than we deserve. Where do you guys live? Arc City, Kansas. We live about an hour south of Wichita, Kansas. Oh, okay, fun. Welcome to Nashville.

How much debt have you paid off? Around $165,000. Good for you. much debt have you paid off around? $165,000 good for you, and you're how long did that take you about 48 months good for you your range of income during that time Anywhere from 65 to 85 thousand dollars cool. What do y'all do for a living? I'm a hairstylist and essentially a stay-at-home mom too mm-hmm And then I'm a math teacher in middle school awesome very cool very cool. What kind of debt was this $165,000? Pretty much everything. I had a truck loan and we ended up paying off our house too. Oh, it's your house and everything?

It ended up like it just happened. Yeah, it ended up just paying off the house for us. Just accidentally fell into that. Way to go, man. What's the house worth? Oh, about 150 probably. Okay, very good. So, all right, 165 and you paid off cars and house

and what else? Credit cards. Credit cards, pretty much everything. We were normal basically. You had everything. Yeah, everything. You signed up for it all and you got rid of all of it. Yeah, before we got married, I had a bunch of debt.

Kelsey didn't have any and I brought all that to the table and thankfully she had. Well, she didn't know about all and I brought all that to the table, and thankfully she had. Well, she didn't know about all that stuff, but we ended up working together to pay it off. How long y'all been married? Just seven years last week. Our anniversary was just this past week. All right, and so seven years,

a couple years you limp along, and then you go, okay, boom, we're getting on this. Yeah, COVID came around, and I was coaching and teaching, and I ended up delivering pizzas because I didn't think coaching was gonna be a thing for a little while. And at that point we were like,

we gotta do something about this. And we had listened to some of the show, we just never got really serious about it. It was entertainment, but it wasn't actionable for you. You're like, that's for other people. Absolutely, and so we decided we're like, we gotta take care of this. And we ended up, we were thinking it was going to be another couple years with the house

And Kelsey's grandmother left us an inheritance So we ended up finishing off a little bit sooner than what we had planned, but it wasn't wasn't too much longer So well good for you guys Well done. How's it feel to be free? It's awesome. Yeah first time in seven years. Yeah, absolutely. For her. For her, yeah. First time in more than seven years for you. It was just a lot of not very smart decisions going along, but I think, like you guys talk about a lot,

it's just being normal and doing what people think is right. Oh yeah. Having all the trucks and the cars and the fancy things, and we finally decided we're like, we'll live like nobody else so we can live and give like nobody else later on. How often does this subject come up in middle school math now?

Well, I actually got to teach a course last year and I was like, I can actually teach to this now because I'm following the process and it's like, kids are always like, when am I ever gonna use this in my life? Well, I was like, well, you can't. Negative numbers are a real thing and the bigger those negatives get, the harder it is to come back the other

directions. I'm obviously the nerd in our, in our household. So Kelsey's more of this free spirit, but yeah, well done. Good job. You guys impressive. How old are you guys to have a paid for house at this age? I'm 30 and I'm 36. Wow. Wow. That's awesome, man You guys are amazing weirdos a lot of hustle a little bit of legacy and you guys are free Yes, as you enter your 30s, that's incredible. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is?

I think the biggest thing is just being on the same page Definitely stay on the same page stay in your own lane. Don't be looking at influencers and all the things that they try to tell you to go and buy. We got the Every Dollar Budget app probably three years ago and it really accelerated that process for us. Because he knows a lot in his head but I'm just like what?

Yeah, the app puts it down where you see it too. Yes. Yeah, it makes his brain actually do that that way. It's a powerful thing. It is. It's like taking a thought and writing it down. Yes. It's way different once you write it down.

It communicates it, which makes for a better marriage. Absolutely. Less surprises. Yes, 100%. And arguments that sometimes come with those surprises. Yeah. Maybe not. They might, that could happen.

Yeah, I don't know anybody like that, but yeah. Yeah. Good job, you guys. What do you tell people the key is? The budget, is that it? Mm-hmm. And working together, you said. Staying together tell people the key is? The budget, is that it? And working together you said. Staying together, yeah. All right, very good.

So now you're 30 years old and 36 years old. You don't have a single payment of any kind, anywhere. How does that feel? Well we've already been able to add a line item to our budget that just says giving and giving three or $400 every month to people that like that need stuff like we can help out not have to worry about doing those on and also being able to spend I know the people before us were talking about shopping we get to we're

talking about maybe going to the Opry on Wednesday night listening to all the big name country music artists. You better. Yeah. You're in Nashville. You're under the grand old Opry man. Yeah. Just doing it's a really good show, by the way. They're really great. Being able to do stuff like that is just. Freedom. That freedom that you guys talk about. You can make a decision like that while you're on the road.

I like it. It's good stuff. Yeah. Wow, I'm impressed. So you've been staying at home now for a few years. How long has it been? I'm part time. So I go in a few days a week and do some hair and everything.

But most of the time, staying with the girls for about two years now. Wow. Did it take the weight off when you became debt freaks? I know staying at home is a luxury for a lot of people where they go, we can't afford it. And now you guys can afford it. We can, yeah.

That's amazing. That's incredible. Good job. All right, and you brought the kiddos with you. Yes, we did. Are some of them gonna join you for the scream? I think so. All right What are their names and ages? Let's have them come on up. We have Emmy who is five and then Hannah if she's going to join us

She is too. Ah, she'll decide We'll let her we'll let her make that call. Okay. We have a four-month old Her name is Mackenzie. Oh, okay. Oh man, you got some little ones. Yes, we do. You are a busy mom. I like it. Oh, cute. I hope you're watching on YouTube or the Ramsey Network app,

because this is precious. Yeah, we got some cuteness going here. This is a family tree that's been changed. These girls don't even know how powerful their mom and dad are, but someday they'll look back and go, yeah, we took that trip to Nashville. I barely remember it.

But that's the year mom and dad changed our whole family tree Because they paid a price to win way to go you two proud of you good work Eric and Kelsey 165,000 paid off in 48 months house and Everything Wichita, Kansas area making 65 to 85 thousand a year count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt free! Yeah! I love it! Wow! Never gets old. That transformation, because it's so much more than just money. It's not like, oh we've got a truck paid off. It's more than that.

Yeah, and what keeps running through my head is how modestly they have lived in a low cost of living area. A $165,000 house making $65,000 to $85,000 and have become a hundred percent debt-free house and everything. Now they're in Kansas in a small town, but you know that and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But I you know my point is some of you call in and act like this stuff is not possible. Well I mean sometimes geography has something to do with what's possible uh... that those numbers don't work in uh... you know in some areas they don't they're not even a reality and haven't been a reality in twenty

years in some areas but their reality there that is their reality and that's the choices that they made that fit that so a middle school math teacher is now a hundred percent debt-. And some of you make serious money and all you do is walk around acting like George and Dave don't have a clue. It can't be done. They're out of touch man. They just don't understand. They don't really know the real numbers. They're in the real world. Yeah we do. We talk to more

people than you do, Bubba. So you're the one that's wrong and you need to sit down and look at yourself and go, it's time for me to do this stuff If those people can do this They if those people can do this on 65 85 thousand a year and pay off 165 thousand 48 months and have a paid-for house at 30 and 36 years old and by God you can do it and our millionaire study They revealed one out of three millionaires never made six figures in their working lifetime So it's not always about income, it's about what you do with it. And the earlier you get it, the better chance

you have of living your best life and building wealth. That's exactly right. So getting it at 30, goodness gracious, I can't imagine where they're going to be 10 years, 20 years, 30 years from now. Well, unless something really screws up, they'll be millionaires. Don't go backwards. They're heading that way. There's very little that's going to slow them down or keep them from getting there. Especially at their age. The momentum is just starting. Pretty incredible. I love it.

Listen guys, I've heard just about every excuse for why folks think they can't get ahead with money. So let's go ahead and settle this right now. You get the final say on what happens with your money. That's why you have to start telling your money where to go so you can stop wondering where it went. So if you're going to start winning with money, you have to get on a budget. The easiest way to get started and stick to it is with the Every Dollar Budget App. It'll help you make a plan for every single dollar coming in and every single dollar going out every single month. And guess what? It's free so no excuses. Download every dollar in the App Store or Google Play today.

George Campbell Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. Tamima and Ophir, I think I got close on that. Is that close guys or on the line from Trenton, New Jersey? Did I get even close on those names? Yeah, thank you. Cool. How can we help? Hi. I've been listening to you guys for years from Israel and I'm honored to have the opportunity to speak with you now from New Jersey. We're finally at the point financially where we can save

money and put your plan in place. As we build our emergency fund on Baby Step 3, the only debt we ever took out with our mortgage, we are worried that we might run into an emergency that we won't be able to fund alone. My husband's worried that without owning a credit card and building credit, we won't be able to borrow our way out of a big emergency if the need arises. We don't have any close family ties to rely on in case of an emergency, and we want to set ourselves up for success. We're also kind of frustrated through Baby Step 3.

So if you have any words of encouragement and what would we do about big emergencies and also without a credit card, we were not able last week to take out, to rent a car. We had to actually rely on a credit card that we still had with us luckily from Israel. What would we do in those kinds of situations without a credit card? So you're Israeli citizens? Yeah. Okay. And you have now moved to the States permanently? We have now moved to the States. We're

living here. Okay. Are you dual citizens or green card? Yeah. Well I'm a dual citizen. We're applying for my husband's green card right now. Right. Now that you're married. Okay. All right. No, we've been married for almost ten years okay okay but you've been living in Israel right okay and what brings you to the states my husband's learning in Princeton and a full scholarship and a stipend excellent okay cool well welcome Okay, cool. Well, welcome. I'm glad you're here. Thank you. All right. So, I think it's fair to say that living in Israel would give you a different perspective on emergencies than living in Trenton, New Jersey. Would that be fair? Pretty much. I've been blessed to visit Israel several times and depending on where you're walking around you feel absolute peace or sometimes absolute tension in the air. Exactly. Yeah and so I mean I've had that experience as a tourist and so as a resident of the land I'm sure

you did too so yeah so I think if I'm in your shoes I'm going to say out loud that that affects my view of these things of these questions you're asking were you living in you know Trenton Jersey, you would have all this time, the last 10 years, you probably would have a different view of what an emergency is. Right. We're going to say that. Or what the need of a credit card is or the role of debt is, okay? Because there's almost no credit card debt in Israel, but everyone lives in overdraft,

correct? Correct. Yeah. Which is a similar version of a credit card, but, correct? Correct. Yeah, which is a similar version of a credit card but it sucks even worse. Yeah. Yeah. So since that was not a blessing, let me tell you the credit card won't be a blessing either. So little item number one, you can rent a car with a debit card, you just can't rent it from everyone every time. And so you have to be selective and you have to pre-arrange and you have to prearrange

and you have to do a little bit of work. I haven't had a credit card in 30 years and I rented a car last week. Okay, so it can be done, but there's a process and you can't just walk up to the airline counter like you did and just go, oh, and they go, no, you just got here from Israel, we're not giving you a rental car. No, okay so you know there's a process there so that's

again part of the idea of no okay the second thing is the last thing you want to do Oh fear because this is you're the one brought this up in the middle of an emergency is go deeper into debt okay right I Right? I mean, what's this doing? It causes the emergency to be worse. I just worry because everything here has a very different amount of money than I used to. So I don't know if tomorrow we get sued for I don't know what. We don't have 70,000 to spend on lawyers and all that.

We don't have families to support that. So if we have any incident like that, I would like... There's not a plan. If someone sues you for $700,000, there's not a financial plan that covers that. The only financial plan that covers that is getting good insurance for like your car, your home, in case someone in that situation sued you. But just people walking around don't get sued for $70,000 just walking around in America. It doesn't happen unless you do something

that causes that to happen and you're not going to, okay? So that's a random fear. I don't know where that came from, maybe too much television or something, but it's a random fear. We hear that in America people sue each other a lot. That doesn't happen as much in Israel. They do a lot more than they should and they do a lot more than they do in Israel. But

not enough that is something that's going to cause you guys to go broke. Now if you go- I'm riding my bike and I'm like, I don't know, hit somebody. I don't know, it could be here. In Israel everything is free in medical terms, but here everything is tens of thousands of dollars. Right you need it you need good medical insurance you need good car insurance you need whatever. But nobody's saying if you hit somebody else. I understand. If you hit someone else and you have liability insurance they cover that okay and so you know you buy basic insurance policies for those things and that takes care of it.

They don't have a car. That's how, part of how we're, that's why it's a bike. It's not, so liability insurance is not as easy. Right. You don't have a car. I'm not worried about you getting sued riding a bike. Okay. Okay. I have zero concern about that. Okay.

Okay. It's just not, it's not, it's not the thing that's going, that doesn't happen. Okay. It's not like you bump into somebody with a bike and they go, Oh, this guy's got money. I'm going to get some. No, he's got a bike. He's not exactly a target. Okay. People come much higher chance. Someone would hit you on the bike than you hitting them. So you might win a lawsuit out of this. So you know, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, both of those things are things that can be navigated is what I'm saying and having a hundred thousand dollars in your bank account will not keep that from happening. So goal one is stay out of debt. Yeah. Goal two is let's start building some savings for a good emergency fund, three to six months of expenses and I've taught that in America for 30 years. I have had almost no one telling me that that was not enough. Millions and millions and millions of people listen to this show every day and very few times does somebody call me up and go you know three to six months if

I'd have had seven months I'd have been okay. They don't bring that up okay because usually your emergencies are way under that if you actually have one or you have insurance to pick it up, or you have something else. And so that, you're going to be okay if you do that. If your expenses are five grand and you have six months worth, that's $30,000. How many emergencies out of pocket would be over $30,000? Close to zero.

None. So it just doesn't happen. So you're going to be fine on that. And so you don't want to build credit It's the same as going into overdraft in your home country, and it's not it's not a prosperity method It doesn't cause prosperousness the debt will not protect you. It will just expose you it just it just makes it worse And so yeah, so we're gonna stay out of debt We're gonna build an emergency fund and the main goal here is go ahead and keep your

immigration papers moving, keep your green card stuff moving and let's get the incomes going. Uh, and, and, you know, let's enjoy the land of the free, uh, enjoy the peace that you're in. Um, uh, you know, uh, and that you may not have been able to experience there depending on where in Israel you were. And how it operated.

So you're not looking over your shoulders, there's no one lobbing rockets into Trenton, New Jersey. And so, let's just enjoy that part of it and use that relative safety to go accentuate your careers and go make a bunch of money. And that's what I want you to do. I'll send you guys a copy of my book Breaking Free from Broke. Read the credit score chapter.

I walk you through exactly how to rent a car without a score with every caveat available. So that will really give you guys some peace. Well, and it'll give you a lot of the other traps to watch for. Because the last thing you want to do is get Americanized in a negative way. Do not follow the, be following all the negative. Do not follow the trends. You will fall for the traps.

All the, all the stuff in George's book I'll outline and help you avoid that. That's the Ramsey Show. Music