The Ramsey Show - How A Bigger Paycheck Could Lead To Bigger Problems

Episode Date: December 27, 2024

📱Watch the full episode for free in the Ramsey Network app. While we're out for the Christmas break, we've compiled some of our favorite John and George calls from the past couple of years. Enjoy your day and we'll be back with a live show in the new year! John Delony & George Kamel answer your questions and discuss: ‘We make $330K and live paycheck to paycheck' 'Is my mother-in-law is trying to cause a rift?’ ‘I feel guilty for spending money on therapy’ ‘I'm 15, how can I help my parents financially?' ‘Dealing with my husband's gambling addiction’ 'We've been living in a hotel for 3 months.' Support Our Sponsors: 🌱 Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp 🏥 Learn more about Christian Healthcare Ministries 🏡 Get started today with Churchill Mortgage 🏦 Go to FAIRWINDS Credit Union for an exclusive account bundle! 🥗 Save 15% on your first Field of Greens order with code RAMSEY 💤 Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! 💻 Visit NetSuite today to learn more 🗂️ Use promo code RAMSEY for18% off at The Nokbox 🏛Get started with YRefy or call 844-2-RAMSEY 🔐 Visit Zander Insurance for your free instant quote today! Next Steps 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET or click here! 📈 Are you on track with the Baby Steps? Get a Free Personalized Plan 🏖️ Invest in Your Future With a SmartVestor Pro 💵 Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app! 🎟️ See Dave and John LIVE in a city near you! 🛳️ Live Like No One Else Cruise ✅ Free tools and resources to find the right insurance for you Listen to more from Ramsey Network 🎙️ The Ramsey Show   🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 💰 George Kamel 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions is a paid, non-client promoter of SmartVestor Pros. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Music Music Music Music Music Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Delaney, bestselling author of Building a Non-Anxious Life. I guess I'm an aspiring bestselling author, John.

I just pre-launched a book and I hope that it's successful as yours. It's called Breaking Free from Broke. It's on pre-sale right now at ramsysolutions.com slash store. Work hard, George. Aspiring. May you accomplish all of your dreams. But we're both YouTubers, so we succeeded in that regard. If that's-

You're crushing me on YouTube. If that's success. You're crushing me on YouTube. Well, let's take some calls. The number is 888-825-5225. We'll help you take the right next step with your money, your mental health, your relationships, whatever it is. We will give you our advice. That is a guarantee.

All right, let's start with Jessica in Boston. What's going on, Jessica? All right, let's start with Jessica in Boston. What's going on, Jessica? Hi. So, I'm wondering how my husband and I have, we're a family of five. We have three kids, five and under. We both work. We make a very good living north of 300K a year, which almost 50 of it is tax-free because

my husband receives VA disability pay, um, monthly, but we are, we've had several crisis, crises I guess come up the past two years. Um, and we were debt free, but now we've, due to the unexpected occurrences, um, we're now living beyond our means, paycheck to paycheck, have no savings, and our emotional, our physical health is taking a toll,

our marriage is taking a toll, and we wanna stop living paycheck to paycheck. How do we get out of this? And how can we repair the relationship along the way? I'm sorry to hear what you're going through. Yeah, what happened? What were the crises? Yeah, so the height of the real estate market, right?

We sold our first house. This is our opportunity to get debt free. We were probably, I wanna say between 50 to 65,000 in debt. Um, at the height of the market in 2021, we sold our first home, uh, walked away, fought free, um, paid off the entirety of our debt. Um, and then I got pregnant with our third child. I was only six months postpartum. Um, and I was actually struggling with postpartum depression

in May and June. We had major complications. I was in preterm labor for almost three months and I am the breadwinner between me and him. Very high pressured software sales, technology sales say, um, job and which forced me to, uh, need to take a medical leave of absence due to my postpartum getting so bad. Um, it was literally for the safety of myself and my family that I had to take a medical leave and the day I returned to work, I was laid off. In turn we, literally two weeks, yeah, it was bad.

So two, I wanna say a month prior to me going back to work, we had just closed on a new home, our forever home, and the bill's piled up quick. So how much debt are you in now? and the bill's piled up quick. So how much debt are you in now? It's probably, I want to say between 22 to 25,000 total. And what kind of debt? Yeah, so it's unsecured loan debt, credit card debt.

Should I include the car or no? Yes, that's debt, isn't it? Okay, then it goes up from there. So I would tap on a total, an additional debt, isn't it? Okay, then it goes up from there. So I would tap on a total an additional 60 So you're probably $85,000 in consumer debt. Are you are you back to working now? I am. I am. I found a new job fairly soon within a month and I am working. Are you still making $300,000?

It takes some time to build the pipeline again. Okay, what's your husband do? Yeah, he works for the government and he was a Marine and now he works for the government as a safety inspector for OSHA. So I'm gonna let George talk you through this debt situation but I wanna say a couple of things, okay? Okay.

The first thing is I'm really, really glad you're still here. Thank you. And making that call when you're holding a baby is one of the scariest calls you can make, right? It is. Yeah, because there's that demon telling you that they're going to take your baby away.

People are going to say you're crazy and they're going to lock you up. And I'm so, so proud of you for doing that. That's hard. And we're good now, right? For the most most of the time. I still have moments. Yes, there you go. Let me ask you this way. You're always going to be around here, right? Yes, for sure. Good. The second thing is, if you haven't already, there's gonna come a moment when y'all are gonna have to, and the quicker you get here, the quicker you can begin to do

the walk the path that Jordan's gonna lay out for you, you're gonna have to make peace with, grieve the crap out of, but make peace with, here's the life we had, and now here's the one we're in right now. Okay. The more you try to quote unquote get back to what we had, the more you're going to make yourself nuts because you're just going to run in a circle. You're going to be dragging what used to be.

That's a fair assessment. Right? So we used to have $60,000 cars. We don't anymore. We're a Camry family now. We used to have a humongous house and we had't anymore. We're a Camry family now. We used to have a humongous house and we had our forever house. It's not our forever house anymore.

You and me are forever husband, but the house isn't. And that's okay. And we used to make 300 grand, now we don't. And maybe one day we will again, but that's not the world we're in right now. And so when you make peace existentially with those moments, then, remember we had Alexis?

Yeah, but now we got a Corolla and it gets us where we need to go and you got a bunch of dope marine tattoos but you're gonna look awesome, smoking hot, getting out of a Camry. That's just the world we have now, right? And it's not less than, it's just different. It's different. And it'll be back, it'll be back. You're a hustler, your husband's a brilliant guy. I mean, you'll be back. But let's make peace with that new world, right? And that new world is awesome, by the way. It's top 1% of planet earth. It's a great world.

Just, we've got to let go of what used to be. Used to be awesome, and then we got laid off and it sucks. And here we are now, now it's awesome again. Just a different kind of awesome. Okay. So Jessica, this is gonna start with some simple math, but it's gonna end with some sacrifice and behavior change, You ready for it?

Absolutely. Okay. He's the mind is- Is your husband on board too? This is an important factor. He is. He knows how you feel about all this. Okay. We're gonna get you to solid ground and I'll give you some options.

It'll be a choose your own adventure. My guess is your take-home pay is somewhere around 15 grand a month? Yes. Okay. Correct. So let's look at what our expenses are. What do we need to keep the household running? And you're going to do that with a budget.

I'm going to gift it to you. It's called Every Dollar. I'm going to give you the premium version. It's going to have paycheck planning, connect to your bank account, all the good stuff. Your homework is to list out every single expense you have as a family and ruthlessly cut out the stuff that doesn't matter that you don't need right now. You got that? Okay.

Give me a rough estimate of what that would add up to. Five grand? For cutting out or the essential? The total expenses that would keep the house running. Food, shelter, utilities, transportation, all that. Probably 12. 12 grand? Yep. That's our nanny included, childcare included. Oh my. We need both of us to work. Remember those sacrifices I mentioned, Jessica?

This is where we might have to figure out how to get that 12 grand down to five. So we have 10,000 to throw out the debt and we can be done in eight months. That might mean selling the cars if you can't make those sacrifices. It might mean letting the nanny go for a season. This is not gonna be fun,

but your life on the other side is gonna be way better for it. So hang on the line we'll give you every dollar we're wishing you the best. One of the questions I get all the time is which life insurance company should I use for my term life policy? A valid question since there are hundreds of companies out there with rates all over the place and riders and add-ons that are simply a waste of money. You need to get this done and make the right decision. That's why the only company I use and have recommended for over 25 years is Zander Insurance. Zander is a broker who shops the top term life companies for you and finds the best rates available from the only plans I

recommend. They also save you time whether you want to work online, over the phone, or via text, their team will cater to your needs and help you make the right decision. This is an absolute necessity and Xander has made the process easy and convenient. Call them at 800-356-4282 or visit zander.com for instant online quotes. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell joined by Dr. John Delaney. Today's question of the day is brought to you by Wirefy.

Wirefy refinances defaulted private student loans, defaulted meaning in the borrower can't make the required payments. So if that describes you and you've got private student loans, contact Why ReFi. They can offer you a low fixed rate loan built for you. Go to whyrefi.com slash Ramsey today. That's the letter Y. R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. Might not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Andrea in Arkansas. My husband's mom inherited the family hunting ranch. I would love to get this call one day, which is worth about a million dollars.

My husband and I pay most of the expenses. We use our personal equipment to maintain it and we are the ones who schedule and host hunters. I also handle all the bookkeeping. Andrea, call me. So I told my mother-in-law that an LLC needs to be created for the amount of business we do. She met with her attorney and now the ranch is now only in hers and my husband's name. I feel like she's trying

to cause a rift between my husband and me. I'm trying not to judge their family history, but every one of the other four kids are divorced, this seems to be her way of creating an easy way out of it if we were to divorce. My husband and I have a strong relationship and he assures me not to worry because this will change nothing in our marriage. But I'm the one doing all the legwork and hoping this doesn't mess up our relationship. Am I wrong for voicing my opinion in this matter? What happens if my husband unexpectedly passed away?

We have two questions. We have two kids that will need to be cared for and we earn nothing from the ranch. Those last four words tell me a whole lot. That's really the resentment. She's putting a whole lot of work in. She's getting $0 for it and her name's not attached to it. So there seems to be,

that's all playing into this picture. Yeah, this is a mess. They use their personal equipment to maintain it. They're the ones scheduling, she's doing the bookkeeping, and she's the one handling, telling the mother-in-law to meet with this person. And I personally don't know the full story.

I don't know if the mother-in-law is being malicious, if this is really a strategic move. This was inherited family land property that she inherited. So the daughter-in-law doesn't have a right to this land, even though she's doing work for this property. Right. Yeah, so there's multiple things happening here,

I think, George. I think one of them is, you're running a business that doesn't make any money. Stop. Stop running a business that doesn't make money.. Stop, stop running a business that doesn't make money. Who is making the money? That's the question. The only thing I could think of.

You said we earn nothing. So like the husband, she's not getting anything, the husband's not, is mom making all the money? Yeah, so husband is using all of his tools and stuff like that to help, because he wants to help out mom, and he's the one good kid. He's the, all the other kids are divorced

and causing problems, and he's the one good kid. He's the, um, all the other kids are divorced and causing problems and he's the one good kid. So he's just going to dump some money into this thing. Um, that's, that's one thing. If it's mom's property and she wants to bring on your husband as a co-owner of an LLC in case she passes away, it's easy to go to him. I wouldn't lose sleep over that. But the fact that you're asking this question tells me there's something else going on here. And if you had trust in your mother-in-law because of the way she has treated you in the past and this came up, you wouldn't think twice

about it, right? If my in-laws, one of my in-laws, my father-in-law or my mother-in-law, was to do a joint venture with my wife that I helped with, I wouldn't think twice about it because I trust both of them implicitly forever. This tells me there's other trust issues and that mom's maybe been trying to cut you up for a long time and this is another way she kind of edge. Anyway, whole thing's messy. So I would ask this way. Number one, if your husband likes hunting on this property and it's fun and he likes doing it and he likes to make a little side money bringing in hunters in, you all figured

that out. Even if you bring in side money and all it does is pay the taxes on the land and pays for the feeders, fine. If husband's trying to do this to win mom's favor and maybe one day she'll leave it to him hopefully if she, and now we're getting into messy stuff. And if you're running a business that's not earning anything you need to have that conversation yeah whole things a mess but I want to go back to this one question here am I wrong for voicing my opinion on this matter if you are a part

of a marriage where both people have a voice and both people can be heard and to say what's on their hearts and on their minds. No. No. If you have voiced your opinion and your husband said, I don't care, don't worry about it, then nagging or complaining or going to war is not going to solve the problem. Then your marriage has deeper issues, which is your husband doesn't care what your opinion is on these matters. He's going to do what he's going to do. You'll need to address that core issue, right? Yeah. and talk to him. You said, what happens if my husband unexpectedly

passed away? Figure out what the will looks like and what the estate planning journey looks like and what will happen with this LLC that he's a part of. I think you have a right to know what would happen there, but I also wouldn't, I feel like there's just more resentment here because of the effort she's putting in. So maybe she goes, I'm gonna back out of this

and y'all can hire a bookkeeper. That's exactly right. You can hire a bookkeeper, you can hire somebody who is booking these hunts. I'm gonna step out and just be with the kids. There you go. And it's not a job. It's not like we're gonna lose money on it

and y'all knock your lights out if that's something y'all wanna do on the side. Not much to lose here. All right, let's go to the phones. Daniel is in Cleveland up next. What's going on, Daniel? Hi, thanks guys for taking my call. Sure, how can we help?

So I'm 23 years old, my wife is 24. We have a three month old daughter. My wife stays at home, I'm a nurse. Our yearly income is probably around 60,000. We bought a house around six months ago. We have about $150,000 loan at like 5.6% interest, I think. So my question is, we have about $100,000 in our high yield savings account.

I mean, it looks like we'll end up getting another 100,000 from like an inheritance basically within the next month. We have zero debt. I'm just, I guess, just like looking forward, I guess, should I be paying off my home? I just don't know exactly, I guess, what to do with the money. I just don't want it to sit there. Yeah. So the $100,000 in the high yield, does that include your emergency fund?

Is that built into that? Yeah, that's built into that. Yes. Okay. So what number would that be? Let's separate it out. I think probably around 20,000. Okay. So 80,000 is freed up. You've got 100 coming in from the inheritance. You owe 150 on the mortgage. I would pay off the house as soon as that inheritance comes in. Okay.

That's going to lower your expenses. You've got a stay at home wife. It's going to free you up with more margin to build wealth, to give, to up the lifestyle, whatever it is you want to do with that. But that's absolutely what I would do, especially as you filter it through the baby steps. Are you guys currently investing 15% of your income? No, we're not. So I haven't invested anything yet.

I'm just starting to try to, I honestly haven't listened to Dave Ramsey much other than in the last few months. Cool. Welcome to the cult, brother. We're glad you're here. That means you're trying to better your finances and your family's future. So I love that.

So I would begin, I'm sure as a nurse, you have a retirement plan, right? Yeah, I think they'd match like, think 4% on a 401k so I need to do that and then my wife actually has a Roth IRA that her father set up a long time ago. She hasn't put much money into it since then but you can deposit money into there because of a spousal Roth IRA so even if that spouse isn't working because you're married, you know, she's married to you, you can have, you know, that earned income from you going

into that account. So you can max out two Roth IRAs, you could put the 4% to get the match and invest that way. And I'll walk you through this in my book, Breaking Free from Broke and show you that path to building wealth. So I'll send you a copy of that. But the spark notes here is I'd get that house paid off. What's your mortgage payment? It's around $1,200. Okay. So I'm guessing principal and interest of that is a big chunk. Oh, yeah.

I mean, I think we're paying $800 in interest just the way that they set up the loan. Dude, what a gift to be 23 and 24 and not a payment in the world with plenty of money in the loan. What a gift to be 23 and 24 and not a payment in the world with plenty of money in the bank. If you just keep living like that you're going to be a multi-millionaire giving very generously. You know what if you pay the house off tomorrow you just got a raise to $72,000 a year. Yeah because of the it makes sense I mean I guess like for us, I'm just feel like I'm at a sort of a pivotal point because I'm just don't know exactly what I want to do. I also am thinking about going back to school to try to increase, obviously, our yearly

income. I'm really hoping my wife can continue to stay home longer. Well, no house payment with money in the bank. You can cash flow school and it'll give you the margin to do that without needing seven side jobs So you can be there with those young kids. Well, you don't have a house payment This is a great place to be you won you won If you don't screw this up and go take out stupid student loans because if you're an Anesthesiologist you can don't take out any loans Grind it take this extra money and spend it. Invest it in yourselves. Bro. George, you're right, dude. You won. You won.

If you never have a payment again at 23 years old, you're going to be just fine, my man. Thanks for the call. This is The Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey, it's that time of year. It's starting to get a little bit colder. It's getting a little bit dark earlier. And sometimes, if you're like me me you just want to stay inside and get cozy and for me my perfect cozy night is me and all of my family piled under blankets watching a movie sitting by the fire maybe even reading a book listen whatever your perfect night in looks like sometimes therapy can feel a

bit like that a time when you can settle in, finally exhale, replenish your energy and begin to take care of yourself. Therapy is a great way to bring yourself some comfort during the chaos and rush of the holiday season or any other time of year. Taking the time to pause and be mindful is one of the reasons I recommend BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy with licensed therapists. You can talk with your therapist just about any time and just about anywhere,

so it's convenient for your schedule. Just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a therapist, and you can switch therapists for no extra cost. Find comfort this December with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell joined by Dr. John Deloney. Give us a call at triple eight, eight two five, five two two five. If you want to jump into the conversation and talk about your money, life your relationships your mental health your boundaries or lack Thereof we want to help you take the right next step Shelly joins us up next in Dallas, Texas Shelly welcome to the show Hi, thank you for taking my calls I'm really just calling because I'm I've been looking to the show a lot and I know the baby steps and everything and I know Um, I've been listening to the show a lot and I know the baby steps and everything. And I know that I'm in a position where I can afford therapy,

but my question is, it's just, well, it's not more of a question. It's just an emotional issue around spending the money on therapy. I just feel bad. I know I need it. And my husband supports me, but, you know, just, it just makes me feel bad to spend, it costs a lot. And my insurance doesn't cover the license therapy, part of it. So what's it gonna cost for you to get this help? Well, I've been looking at like better help and you know,

there's, I even saw some more affordable options too, but so I did sign up with BetterHelp, but I'm just feeling like I'll try it for, you know, the first four weeks and then cancel it. I start something, you know, I'll start it. And I started therapy before, but it was just costing like a hundred a week. And then I was-

So do you feel like this is a wasteful expense in your budget right now? Like, hey, this money should be going toward this. What's behind that? I think... I start feeling like, I don't know, it's... and it's part of my anxiety. It's part of the reason why I think I need therapy. Well, I think it has nothing to do with money. I think money is the excuse that presents itself that gives you an out so that you don't have to go through this fire where healing is on the other side of it. Yeah, it could be.

I don't know. I think you should go. It's all confusing. Honestly, the feelings might be confusing, but even if you guys were up to your eyeballs in debt and you need to go to counseling, we would tell you to stop paying off your debt, pause and go to counseling, get the help you can care that you need. Yeah, I, it's, I'm trying to wrap, I'm trying to, it's, it's, you can tell yourself, I know this is so important, my health, but it just feels, it just hurts to pay it.

I don't know, I was raised poor, you know, grew up in a poor family and we're doing really well now and I just feel like that's it right there. That's it right there. You know why? Because when you grew up, other people, those people over there, they got counseling. They took quote unquote, took care of themselves. We don't got time for that. We don't need that. Only weaklings and wimps do that. Yeah. Right? Yeah. You didn't even want to say, oh I need therapist because you would in my family would be like, oh well you're crazy. You know what in your family tell

me if I'm wrong in your family you didn't say that you needed anything. No, I actually struggled with eating disorder and everything starting when I was a teenager. Now I'm in my 40s and having panic attacks and I had a traumatic event last year, medical with neuropathy for chronic pain for like eight months in my face. It's time. And I can't sleep without my face. It's time. And I can't sleep without heavy medicine. It's time. It's time, whatever it takes.

If there was a medication, Shelley, that was $300 a month, but it changed your life, would you say that was a worthy $300 to spend that wasn't wasteful? Yeah, and well, I am spending a lot on my psychiatrist for the medicine, so I have to have that, or I just can't function. But your psychiatrist has been telling you for a long time,

I'm gonna give you these meds, but you need to go talk to somebody, haven't they? Yeah, he did say CBT would help me. Correct, it's time. I think we need to refile this in our brain as this is not a wasteful thing that I could be spending in this. And this is, it's too much in our budget into

this is like paying for insurance this is keeping the lights on this is paying for the internet bill this is going to add so much utility and value to my life that I can't imagine not doing it and it may not be forever this may be a season that you go through and then it's over yeah yeah I was kind of wondering about I know everyone's different but I was wondering about like on average kind of how I was wondering about, I know everyone's different, but I was wondering about like on average, kind of how long it could take. I've had friends tell me, oh, it took so and so a year to really, but I mean, there is light at the end of the tunnel.

If you've struggled with disordered eating since you were a child, and you grew up in a pretty tough place, and it's a pretty tough situation, and if you think so little of yourself that the idea of spending money to make sure you're whole and well so that you can show up for you and for your husband and for others, if that shuts your body down or sets off your body's alarms, it's going to be a while. So I think it's counterproductive,

or I'm telling you it's counterproductive to say, okay, I'll give you four and then I quit. That's like going to the car dealer and saying, or to the mechanic and saying, hey, everything's broken on the car, you got 30 minutes and then I'm just gonna come pick it up. Yeah. I want you to completely reframe this.

I put the stress on myself that I feel like I have to even fix myself in this amount of time. Well, right, and you're not somebody, listen, I used a bad analogy, you're not somebody to be fixed, okay? You're not broken. Your body's working exactly as it should, given the set of circumstances you grew up in,

plus some genetics, and what you're going to learn is different ways your body can get through a day. That's what counseling is going to do. It's going to let you practice, it's going to teach you relationship, it's going to teach you some new skills. Over time your body's going to learn, hey we weren't safe then, we're safe now. All of that is worthy of an investment. Go. Don't think twice about it. And listen to this, this is important. Your feelings are not designed to tell you the truth. Your feelings are designed to keep you safe given a set of circumstances. So this morning, I did not feel like writing in a journal. I didn't. But I did it. Because I'm a better husband and a better dad on the other side of that when I get all this crap out of my head and out of my body and on a

piece of paper. I will not feel like working out when I get home tonight. I don't feel like it at all. I'm tired. It's the weekend. And I'm going to go do it because I promised myself I would and it makes me a better fill in the blank, fill in the blank. So your feelings, I feel like I wanna quit, cool. I get that. I'm gonna acknowledge those feelings, that's real. And then I'm gonna keep going. And I feel like I'm wasting money, cool.

Your body grew up poor, put a GPS pin in poverty, it put a GPS pin and stop spending money on, quote unquote, you getting well. Cool, I feel that. And I'm gonna go anyway, because I'm gonna get well. I'm worth being well. That's a good word, John.

And tactically, Shelley, adding this as a line item in your every dollar budget, that says Shelley's therapy, and then what's gonna happen is December, it's gonna feel like, oh gosh, that $300 came out for those sessions. Then January, it's like, oh yeah, we have that in the budget.

Then February, it's like, oh yeah, we've had this in the budget. And all of a sudden it becomes normal, especially as you excel through the baby steps and you get to a different place financially. There's expenses in my wife and I's budget that 23 year old George would be like, whoa, that guy's blowing some money into us.

It's no, we're buying ourselves peace. We're buying our time back with some of these things. And therapy is not a luxury. It is financially for people who can't afford it, but it's not a frivolous expense. And it's definitely worth being well. And John talks about this in his new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life,

which I'd love to send Shelly a copy of that, John, if you don't mind. Absolutely. And stay on the line. I'm gonna hook you up with three free months of better help with my friends there, okay? I'm gonna take that excuse away. Three free months of better help.

But if you and your therapist decide, hey, it's probably best if you keep going, I want you to keep going and stay plugged in. That's very kind of you, John. You wield that kind of power here on The Ramsay Show. I don't. I've got an extraordinary partner with BetterHelp, and they really, really care about people getting well.

And so it's their generosity, not mine. That's very kind. So hang on the line, Shelley. We're going to send you a copy of Dr. John Delaney's bestselling book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, and three months of better help on us to get you started on this path. We are cheering you on, and I'm proud of you.

That's not an easy thing to call into a national radio show and put that all out there and go, I'm struggling with this, I wanna get the help I need. And I know a lot of people are benefiting from this call, who probably need to take that next step too, John. Dude, I remember being a 6'2", 195 pound Texas male sitting at my kitchen table while my little boy was asleep and my wife was asleep in the other room, weeping at my kitchen table, because I knew I had to.

And I also felt like such a wimp and such a weakling and such a coward and all those things. And I went and it's changed everything. Go get the helping care that you need. Thanks so much for the call Shelly. More of your calls coming up. The number is 888-825-5225. We'll be right back. Hey, I'm excited to talk about a new sponsor, Berna. You all probably know I'm a gun guy, but I'm big on safety, so I'm also a Berna guy. Berna is the un-gun, a less lethal option that protects you in more ways than one. A Berna is effective self-defense when you need it. It also helps protect your assets from lawsuits if you have no choice

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armor are also 10% off for Ramsey fans. See why Berna has more than 15,000 5-star reviews. Just go to Berna.com slash Dave to learn more. That's B-Y-R-N-A dot com slash Dave. The Ramsey Show on John Delaney joined here by a good friend, George Camel. Let's go out to Alexis in Phoenix. Hey Alexis, what's happening? Hi, can you hear me okay? Absolutely.

What's up? All right. So I'm 15. My mom just told me this morning that my parents have had to dip into their savings the past two months. Okay. Um, she's, my mom has stayed home with us and homeschooled us for 10 years. Um, and she's going to have to get a part-time job. Um, and I'm just wondering like how my savings and how me saving for my future

fits into that. Cause I kind of feel guilty having extra money every month or having my own money putting into savings while they're struggling. Man, they are lucky. They are, they are lucky to have you as their kid. You are the oldest 15 year old I've ever talked to. It's fantastic. Okay. I'm going to tell you something really hard to internalize and you're gonna

hear these words and your your guts aren't gonna believe me, okay? Okay. It's not your job. You are doing an incredible job planning for your future and your parents have made grown-up choices like whatever job your dad is working at is a choice he's chosen to work and that's his trade that's what he does and your mom made a choice we want to stay at home that was a collective values based decision that they made and then there was a math problem they ran into and like adults all over the country brave adults are saying,

okay, this is what we wanted. This isn't going to be, this isn't the way this is going to work out for a while. So we're going to have to alter our plan and do something else. And so I'm actually proud of your parents for doing that. It's awesome. It's just going to look different. Okay. The greatest thing you can do for your parents is you take care of your

business in the classroom. You take care of your business in the classroom You take care of your business like as a teammate around that house, right? make sure you take care of your responsibilities with excellence, which I know you do and Be sober minded be intentional about planning for the future. What college is gonna look like what it's gonna cost Where are you gonna go? What are you gonna study all of those things. That's the way you support your parents, not by taking your part-time job money and trying to keep the lights on. Now, there may come a moment when they ask you for that,

doesn't sound like that's what's happening, it sounds like your mom set you down like a good mom. She actually sounds incredible, set you down and said, hey, we've had some hard realities that we're dealing with and so I'm gonna have to go to work and so home's gonna look a little different for a season. Is that what happened?

Yeah. I applaud her, because a lot of parents would try to hide that, they'd be ashamed of that, they'd be scared of that, and your mom did the right thing. She sat down and told you a hard truth, and that also means that she trusts you. Does that make sense?

That she thinks you're wise enough to hear that, that scary stuff, okay? But keep that in your mind and in your heart. It's not your job, okay? Yeah. Do you believe me? Yes. No, you don't.

But it's okay. It's okay if you don't. So there are some tactical things you can do, Alexis. One is, you know, you're 15, you're starting to enter that age where you can go get some part-time jobs. And one thing you can do is Instead of going hey mom and dad. I want the new iPhone is $1,200 You can go work for that and save for that and you cover your own expenses of things that are kind of the luxuries in Your life you don't have to go pay the water bill

But you can cover you know going out to the movies with your friends. It sounds like you already do that. Yeah Oh, yeah, I wasn't sure if that was okay for me to continue to have like, absolutely. I think that's great. Yes. Flexing that muscle at 50. I wish John and I were that smart at 15. Goodness gracious. I didn't know what day it was when I was 15. And yes, you listen, we often think that pain is some zero, or that grief is some zero or that grief is some zero and what that means is that George loses his job and I get a flat tire and I am upset I'm whining about my flat tire and George goes oh yeah you think that's bad I lost my listen grief and sadness aren't some zero you can go have joy while your parents are making life adjustments

at their home because one doesn't, you not, you just sitting at home and not having fun and not hanging out with your friends and spending your spending money by going to the movies. You doing that doesn't help the, the bills get paid. You see what I'm saying? It's just you joining into their misery into something that you didn't cause, it's not your job. Okay? Yeah. And so, yeah, go have fun with your friends. I love what George says.

If you know, hey, now's not the time to go ask for the iPhone, whatever, 13 or 17 or whatever number they're up to now. That's cool, that's fine. But do go have joy in your life, okay? And I'm gonna do one better for you, Alexis. I'm gonna gift you Financial Peace University. And one thing you can do

is you're casually hanging out living room watching Financial Peace University, and you go, hey, Mom, Dad, if you wanna join me, I'm learning so much in this. If you guys wanna join me, I think it'd be really cool for us to go through it together. And not from a place of shame, of like, hey, Mom, I know you're just telling me you guys are broke.

This might be good for you. From a 15 year old. I called a couple of idiots on the radio, I got you solved. Telling the person who wiped your butt, you know, seven years ago this. So, just go watch it yourself, and I think you modeling that might inspire them,

motivate them, give them some hope. And when the time comes, you're gonna get older, and they're gonna be asking you for advice. That's right. And so it's a great place to be. So hang on the line, Jenna's gonna pick up, we're gonna get older, and they're gonna be asking you for advice. That's right. And so it's a great place to be. So hang on the line, Jenna's gonna pick up. We're gonna gift you Financial Peace University for one year, as well as every dollar premium.

And you can get on a budget at 15, and they might see you doing that and go, what was that you did? That's pretty cool. Go ahead and send her Anthony O'Neill's debt-free degree too, Jenna. And she can start reading on now, thinking about what college is gonna look like

in the future. All right, let's go look like in the future. Let's go to Vanessa in Charleston. Hey Vanessa, what's going on? Can you hear me? Yes ma'am, what's up? Okay, I'm so grateful to talk to you. Thank you.

I'm struggling with some issues. All right, bring it on. We are too. Okay, there's so many details. I'm going to try to keep it nice and tidy. I'm 51 years old. I've dated a man for about 10 years we've lived together. I'm wanting to end the relationship. Kind of my issue is when we met I sold the house that I've raised

my kids in and I had went through Dave Ramsey and I had cleared all my debt so when we met I was debt-free and I had a little bit of money in the bank. Um, about four years ago, we bought a house close to my daughter and, um, it was real small and then another house came up around the corner and it was in foreclosure. I got a piece of deal on it. So I bought it, um, another house, um, about 20 minutes away. And, um, part of my issues are number one, I'm wanting to end the relationship with my another house uh... that's when it's a way and uh... part of my issues are number one i wanted to get in the relationship with my boyfriend and i'm not a real time issue with uh... i'm having some domestic issues with my

daughter if you will and i think maybe for and time impart you know some is they put when it would be good uh... so i had a total of four houses. What's your mortgage total on those four houses? I'm broke. When I leave a relationship, I'll have nothing other than these houses and my

income. Is his name on the deeds? No, not on these. So your name only is on all these deeds? That's right. Okay. So can you sell all four houses? Yes. I think it's time to start fresh. Yeah. So my issue with it is, you know, I mean, you know, my daughter's having

some issues, you know. Is having four, is having, being broke and having all of your money tied up in these four houses can help your daughter now now i guess what i'm struggling with it is running through the house of the rented out do i sell the rentals and try to save the house and i'm in which is not necessarily desirable to me if the life of the house is that it uh... nice to me because i'm close to my grandkids but my daughter and i are

having some issues uh... trying to decide whether not to put space between us or what you know I mean or do I... When are the leases up for the renters? When do I... the first of the year. Okay. Then we say we're not renewing the lease I'm selling the properties. Here's what I want you to do. Start thinking of it this way. You're trying to look at this as a math problem, as a mothering problem, as a mental health issue problem, as a relationship problem. Whenever my life gets this chaotic, I'm going to clean up my environment and take as many

variables off the table as possible. And right now you are leveraged to the gills in four houses that you can't afford and it doesn't sound like you even want them and If I'm you again, I would talk to an attorney before you start dividing all this up because he may be claims to this net I'm gonna take the variables that I can control off the table. I can't control the relationship mess I can't control my daughter's situation. We're gonna have to work through that I can control how chaotic my life is trying to run four households at the same time. I'm going to sell the houses and clear that debt.

George, what do you think? Agreed. Awesome. All right. Hey, that's the first hour of the Rameses Show in the books. Thank you for listening. We'll be right back. Hey guys, I've never done this before, but I'm partnering with a nutrition company, Field of Greens. Each fruit and vegetable in Field of Greens is selected by doctors to support heart, liver,

and kidney health plus metabolism for healthy weight. And your doctor will notice your improved health or Field of Greens will give you your money back. I can get behind a promise like that. Go to fieldofgreens.com slash Ramsey and get 15% off with promo code Ramsey. www.fieldofgreens.com slash Ramsey. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Ramsey Personality, George Campbell, joined by my good friend and one of America's favorite Johns, Dr. John Delaney.

And we are here for you America, taking your calls at AAA8255225. Maybe you need some advice, some motivation, maybe you need to take that next step with that broken relationship, the toxic boss, the debt that's been hanging over your head for far too long, and you're just ready to make some changes and live a better, more peaceful life.

That's what we're all about on this show. Mary is going to kick us off in Cleveland, Ohio. Mary, welcome to the show. Hi, how are you doing today? Doing well. How are you? I'm going to be honest, I'm a little nervous and anxious right now. We got you, Mary.

It's just us here, just us girls. Let's talk. Okay. What's going on? So I'm calling in because my husband is a gambling addict and has been since January of this year when it became legal in Ohio. It has caused the heaviest toll on our marriage, um, on our relationship,

our family. And I'm at the point where I have tried many routes with this, trying to be very gracious on how I go about it, trying to be respectful as a wife, trying to support his mistakes, but trying to get him the help he needs. And nothing is working. Um, and at this point he is very adamant about continuing to do it. Um, and I'm at the point where I feel that I need to, you know, take my daughter and take a step away, not divorce, but maybe take some separation until he figures it out, but I honestly don't want to have to do that, but I don't know

what else to do right now. What makes you think that or what's happening that you feel like I need to get me and my daughter out of this to be safe? I think you're right I think you're right by the way but I want you just to articulate what something else is going on like what's happening in your home? It's just an extremely tense environment. We argue all the time. Are you arguing because he's losing thousands and thousands of dollars or arguing because he just glued to his phone all the time and he's angry because he wins and loses or as most as is most of the time the gambling behavior and the addictive

actions that are keep like this compulsion is indicative of a much bigger issue in your marriage. Y'all don't talk to each other, you don't listen to each other, there's no intimacy, it's just become a mess and gambling is the way he's choosing to handle that that global dysfunction inside your home. Correct. Okay. All of it? Yes, and I mean the line is the biggest thing as well. So anytime somebody has a boundary inside of a marriage that they're thinking about laying down, right? Like this is my final straw, this is my line that I won't cross anymore. I always want to encourage them to have an or what statement because the person they laid the boundary down is going to want to know. Can you give an example? Yes. So you need to have an or what statement. You sit down

with your husband and say, if we don't go to marriage counseling by the end of this weekend, or if we don't have a date on the calendar by the end of this weekend and it's next week, and if you don't go, here's the or what. Me and our daughter are moving out. Okay. Period. You just have to be prepared for the or what because the or what comes with a lot of complexity and I know it sounds super cool to be like you like you're gonna you can Google this and on these stupid websites they're gonna tell you like just leave him you don't deserve that sounds all well and good but there is a significant financial complexity to this right yeah I mean I really don't want it

to have to come to that because I still love him. Of course you do. And we have a family together. Of course you do. I want you to keep this front and center as you move forward. You are simply doing what you have to do to keep your family safe and responding to somebody that's thrown a grenade inside your home. You're not the one doing this and he will paint you as the villain here. He has that's right Because he gets to it whatever he wants to do whenever he wants to do it with quote-unquote y'all's money And he can you're just whining and nagging and complaining and on

Online gambling online sports gambling is destroying Online sports gambling is destroying individuals and homes across this country, period. And dude, I always watch the fights. I love watching the games. I love having some fun with my friends. So it's not that I'm like this fuddy-duddy that sits in my house and plays bingo all the time. I love the whole environment. And yet, this is destroying people. And you've told him that that and he has told you, I don't really care what you have to say. I'm gonna keep doing whatever I wanna do.

Yeah. And I mean, it's been the past few months, I guess to give just some quick context. So pretty much in a lump sum, he has spent between 30 to $40,000. Has he lost it? Oh yeah, like he's lost all of it. Okay.

We don't, there's no, I mean, he's, you know, won a couple thousand here or a hundred here, things like that. But it's, it's, he's all together since the beginning of this year, it's been around $40,000. And can we be honest, this is what you know about. I promise there's more. This is all I know about. That's right. Let me ask you some, a very tactical question. If you move out, do you have, do you have a job? Do you have money? Yes, I have a job, but we, so he's in nursing school. So, hold on, hold on, hold on. He is making choices. You're keeping yourself safe. If

he's in nursing school, then he gets to take care of his pay for nursing. He gets to make all those choices on his own. You need to have your four walls covered for you and your baby if you choose to do have your own bank account. Yes, I actually did. Probably about months ago at this point on that with one of the steps that took with separating kids are finances we never recommend that except in this moment does it direct the dessert check direct deposit into that account it's and still in our journey uh... and i will just say so pretty much because we don't have any like we don't have any financial security right now so with my

job and his job we get paid each week. So I get paid and then he gets paid the following and so on and so forth. So with our money that we have right now, I want to take money from like my check and put it into ours, but then all the bills come out from our joint

because we haven't switched any of those yet. So all of like pretty much each paycheck that we get each week is going towards bills, going towards groceries and gas. And then there's nothing left I want you to get with a friend and I want you to map this out okay and you're gonna have to move your direct deposit to your new account and you would know as well as I do he's gonna hit the roof isn't he yeah he already did when I I mean everything I do I he, he does.

That's right. Are you safe? Yes. Okay. He's not going to hit you or hurt you? No. Okay. So we are getting with a friend and we're going to map this out.

What's an apartment going to cost? What are the light and water bill going to cost? And we're going to get all this mapped out and lined out. We're going to make sure that our check can cover that. You might need to get some new hours and all that kind of stuff Child care all those things and then we're going to go we're going to sit down and be very articulate and clear about my or what? statement this changes or Here's what I'm going to do. You can't control anything. He does you can only control what you do

I hate during the situation stay on the line We're going to hook you up with every dollar so you can begin to control what you do. I hate that you're in this situation. Stay on the line, we're gonna hook you up with every dollar so you can begin to control what you can control if and when you have to step away. We'll be right back. You've got a lot to keep organized in life. Kids and calendars and carpooling and cleaning, I mean, it is so much.

That's why you need a knockbox. That way, if something happens to you, you leave your loved ones with happy memories and not a huge mess. Knockbox is a complete system to help you organize your accounts, personal history, estate planning documents, and all your other info in one place.

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It's a fresh start. And I get to reflect on the good things I wanna keep doing and the not so good things I wanna change. And I know a lot of you are psyching yourself up thinking, okay, this year I've got to get my finances in order. And big goals like that are really exciting, but they can also be overwhelming That's why it's so important to have a plan

So before you do anything else start with a budget start with every dollar I love every dollar because it's so easy to plan out your spending and keep track of it every month Plus most people free up on average four hundred dollars in their first budget to go towards their goals. Guys, this can be an amazing year. And if you choose just one good habit to start, choose budgeting. Download the Every Dollar Budgeting app for free today. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell joined by Dr. John Delaney this hour. The number to call to ask your question is 888-825-5225. Jane joins us up next in Lawton, Oklahoma.

Jane, welcome to the show. Hi, how are you? We're doing great. How can we help you today? Oh, okay. So this is tough. So I've been married about two years and before we got married, I agreed to not sharing the bank account, understood his reservations. I do have a full-time job.

All right. Um, and a couple of months ago, I thought, well, maybe I really do need to learn to manage my finances better because according to him, like I haven't proven that I know how to manage money. And I started listening to the Dave Ramsey show because I thought that, you know, I knew of the Ramsey network and I have realized that my problems are a lot more intense than I really, than, than, than just a financial disagreement or a communication issue. You know, he's gone half of the time with his job and he doesn't leave. He will not give me money for groceries, any necessities. Anytime I bring that up, he tells me I need to manage my money better.

Do you have a debit card? Do I have a debit card? How much money control and access does he give you to money? Oh, zero. So you can't spend a dime if you even wanted to? No, I mean, I have my paycheck, but that's it. Okay. And you're working full-time? Yes.

Do you have any kids? I have one daughter. How old is she? Ten. Is he the dad? No. Okay. Are you safe?

Yeah. I mean physically, yes. How? All right, I'm going to trust you. The data suggests that guys who act like this are physically abusive as well. And I would even go so far to say maybe hasn't thrown a punch, but has created a world that is so unsafe for your body that it shuts itself down and tries to get small because there's

a bear living in that house. Yeah, I mean, I've been through some pretty traumatic things in my life, but like on paper that would be way worse than this, I've never had a panic attack until recently So I know like full-on like panic attack. Okay, and I know like I'm educated enough to know that like your body starts to do things when It's trying to get your attention. Yeah, right. So what's keeping you there? Well, I mean I do I mean I did make a vow to him And I take that seriously

But I mean I have a couple of thousand dollars in debt now that I didn't have Before because I have to put gas and groceries on credit cards sometimes Do you know he makes he makes about four times what I do sure I? Do you know he makes he makes about four times what I do sure I Don't want to weave this back and forth into a finance situation than out of a finance situation you're in a extremely toxic environment You're in an unsafe environment, and if we haven't crossed lines yet. We will at some point And we even when the way you started the call, he told me

I haven't proven my, like just those words alone let me know this is very much a father-daughter relationship far far more than it's a husband and wife creating a future together. Right, I mean he, I mean, he does control everything. I mean not just money and if something's not done the way he wants it done, I I mean, he does control everything. I mean, not just money. And if something's not done the way he wants it done, I mean, he will threaten to cut me out. Why are you-

I mean, trivial stuff like that's not- Besides the vow, which, I mean, this doesn't sound like a marriage. If you just talk, hearing you say this out loud just sounds like toxic roommate situation. What is he actually signing up for when he signed up for this marriage? I have recently asked him that and I mean he's like well I married you because I love you. Is this love?

I don't think love should feel like this. It does not. This is control. This is power. And I, this is, this is, I'm speaking on behalf of John DeLoney, not on behalf of the Ramsey Network here. So I, I take a much broader view of the word fidelity. I think you can cheat on somebody and never sleep with another person. But if you steal from somebody, their dignity and their autonomy and their ability to have feelings and thoughts and a partnership in a relationship, that's not fidelity, right? You are cheating that person out of their life.

You're cheating that person out of connection, okay? And so I take a much broader view. I think some people are very narrow, like you got to have sex with somebody else, otherwise it's not cheating. I take a much broader view. I think, and some people are very narrow, like you gotta have sex with somebody else, otherwise it's not cheating. I have a much broader view than that. But I'm listening to my sister Jane here,

and you're slowly drowning and you know it, and your body's trying to get your attention. And so I guess what George and I are asking you, two guys who love our wives, and we're not perfect, man, but I'm trying to sit across the table from you and say, what are you doing? Why are you here? Why are you staying?

What's the hook? You got a couple thousand dollars, who cares? You're too tough and resilient and brave. You'll have that paid off in no time. Like something else is here, like what's the hook? Why are we staying? I mean, I don't know that I could Well, I mean some of it's like I want to say that like I I gave my all

I don't think you're being allowed to give your all because the person you're connected to is saying You can take your all and flush it down the toilet Go make the bed the right way. Yeah. Are you scared to leave? What would be the repercussions if you said, Hey, I'm out? I mean, I mean, I just want a stable life for my child.

This is not it. I mean, I just want a stable life for my child. This is not it. Your child is absorbing top to bottom what love looks like, what marriage looks like, what equality looks like, absorbing it into their DNA. Now I will never, unless somebody is being physically like assaulted I'm not going to tell somebody they have they need to lead their marriage. I've often told people you need to get to where you are safe and we may need to take a structured 30-day break. I'm gonna go move in with

a friend for 30 days we're gonna be very clear on when I come, when I come back, what the conditions of coming back are gonna be. But and again, you're not, you gotta make this choice. You're an adult. I don't see that going over well. Do you see your current situation going over well? Well, I mean, I probably wouldn't have reached out to you guys. I know, I know, I know.

And I hope you hear that we love you. I'm worried about you. Neither options are easy. Let's just make that very clear. Staying is really hard and leaving is gonna be hard. But one leads you to where you're free and that your daughter's safe and you're safe and you can get to a better place financially instead of living in this prison. And we just want what's best for Jane. Yeah. I mean, I'm scared to make a decision.

Do you have people that you know and trust that can sit with you and hear the entirety of the story? Yeah, a little bit. Have you opened up, do they know? Yeah. What do they tell? Do they know? Yeah. What do they tell you? To leave. Okay.

If your friend was in the situation, what would you tell her? I mean, I never imagined myself in this situation. No, that's what makes these abusive situations so surreal because it's like, there's no way that's happening. I've heard that over and over that there's no way this is happening to me and it may even be in your case happening again, right? Yeah, I've never experienced anything quite like this. But I'm just scared of, I'm really just, I don't know what, I mean I know what I need to do. But here's what I want you to do.

I want you to reach out to a couple of friends, to reach out to a local counselor in your community, not to go quote unquote, get well right now, but you need someone that's going to walk alongside you as you have a very challenging road ahead of you, whether you stay and try to figure out how to make this thing work, or you decide to create an alternative life outside of this relationship. But listen, you're worth being well. Hey you guys, I'm not a fan of the big banks and you probably already know which ones I mean.

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they created just for Ramsey fans to help you take control of your finances. That's fair wins, F-A-I-R-W-I-N-D-S.org slash Ramsey. Hey guys, no matter what your goals are in 2025, our new year's Sale has tools and resources you need to get the year started strong, with prices starting at just $9.99. Whether you want to make progress with your money, grow in your career, or create a more

peaceful life, you can achieve your goals. And these books and products can help. Shop the New Year's sale now at ramsysolutions.com slash store. That's ramsysolutions.com slash store. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, host of the Entree Leadership Podcast, the fine print and co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour. Join this hour by the host of the Dr. John Delaney show. You guessed it by the host of the Dr. John Delaney show. You guessed it, America.

It's Dr. John Delaney himself. But how funny would it be if it was a different host? If it was Dan. Hey, my name is Dan. Host of the Dr. John Delaney show. It's kinda like us, me and you, hosting the Ramsey show. That's true. At least Dave took his first name off of it

to make it less awkward for all of us. It's great. Well, we are here for you, America, taking your calls about life, money, mental health, relationships, career. It all kind of blends into one blurry thing we call life. And we're here to help you take the next step and help you make a breakthrough in that. So, 88825-5225 is the number to call.

Renee joins us up next in Orlando, Florida. Renee, welcome to the show. Hi, thank you. So, just a little bit of backstory. My husband and I were in our mid 30s and we both work in front line positions at one of the major theme parks in the area. And we also have a six year old son. And for the last three months we've been living in a hotel because we could no longer afford our rent in our apartment and financially we are just not in a place to buy a house. We've been able to secure an apartment but the real issue is we ended up falling for

as you would say George the stupid tax of getting into pay their loans and installment loans and now we're like $25,000 in debt and we make like $75,000 a year, but between the weekly payments on those loans and our regular bills, we're suffocating under our debt and we don't know how to get out of it. We were just turned on to your show, the Ramsey Solutions maybe like a couple days ago from a co-worker of mine and we've found hope in it so far but we've been hearing stuff on the show like baby steps and emergency funding. We don't know what any of that stuff is. And we just we don't know how to start.

We don't know where to go from here. We don't have anything in savings. We don't have anything for retirement. We don't have anything for our kids. And we would like to have more children someday and set up a stable future and a stable home life for them eventually. So. So sorry to hear all about this for now.

Gosh. Are you ready? Yes. Like when George starts talking here, like you have to say you're ready. And what that means is you're ready to quit your jobs if you have to. You're ready to move out of the area if you have to. You're ready to change everything. Are you in? Yes, we're ready see my husband and I we've already started looking into schooling to get different jobs you know

stay in the jobs that we have right now so that we can fund the schooling that we're going to because the company we're at they will find higher education for free and my husband, he currently has a bachelor's in psychology and wants to go to school for a master's of social work to be as a guidance counselor. And I'm looking into real estate school because I don't have any desire to go to college per se and throw money into a system where there's no guarantee of me getting a job in that field.

Okay, so you're ready. So George is gonna walk you through it, yeah. So I love that you guys want to further your education and get out of this hole, but right now we're in survival mode. And so I'm not thinking about school, I'm thinking about how are we gonna put food on the table and stop living in hotels

and make sure our six-year-old is taken care of. Yeah. And so A1 is to stop going into debt. Are you guys done there? Are you still having to take out these payday loans to get by? No, we're done. We did take out some credit cards a couple months ago, but we have since stopped using them.

Cut them up. Cut them up. Can you physically cut them stopped using them. Cut them up. Cut them up. Can you physically cut them up? Yes. Cut them up. And throw them away so you don't know the numbers anymore. Okay. And then we're gonna pay those off completely

and we're gonna close all of those accounts. And we're not gonna look at credit card companies and payday loans as a blessing to get us through next week. They are snitches. Okay. They prey on people in your situation, okay, who are working their butts off to try to make it work and who want the best for their little kid and just can't make the ends meet. They prey on you. They give me and George, they give us free flights and you pay for them, okay? They are not your friend.

So once we're saying no to debt, let me ask the interest rate on these payday loans, because I think it's going to make us all throw up. Too much to say on mine. Is it in the hundreds? Probably. I mean, we're spending $1,200 a month on these payday loans. On the weekly payments. A loan. What other debt do you have?

We both have car payments, and I've looked into selling them off, and we are basically upside down on both of our cars, because again, it was a buy here, pay here kind of place, so astronomical interest rates. Okay, what other? You have two car loans loans you get the payday loans you have the credit cards what else uh... the credit cards were actually not in debt on and we need to make their own hands zero balance

okay we just stopped using them uh... but we also have like medical bills in collections i have maybe twelve hundred dollars in medical bills in collections and I have maybe $1,200 in medical bills in collections and my husband has $1,400 in collections. Okay, so what we're gonna do is A1 is we're not going into more debt, that's baby step zero, we're gonna stop the bleeding. Your next step is to scrape together $1,000

as quickly as possible. That's gonna go into a savings account. I know that sounds like, how are we gonna do that? We have no margin. And this is where we go. Obviously you guys aren't living lavishly. All of your money is going to death. We haven't lived lavishly in a long time. So right now your expenses- I haven't gotten a haircut in a year. Your expenses are your four walls is what I'm guessing. Food, utilities, housing, transportation.

Yeah, basically. And then anything my kid needs. Okay. Our kid needs. This might mean that we are working 60, 70 hour weeks and we're trading spots to take care of the six-year-old for a few weeks just so we can get out from being underwater. Let's tell her what that means. Your husband gets off of work and he doesn't come home. Yeah, that's what we've been doing. My husband's been doing double shifts. Good.

Six, six or seven days a week. Cause he can. My, my role at this theme park, um, they don't allow over time, but have you talked to your employer, your leaders there and explain what's going on? Yeah. And there's. Could they put you up in some of their housing on the property temporarily? Yeah. And there's... Could they put you up in some of their housing on the property temporarily?

They don't have it. I mean, they have it for the college kids, but not for actual... Do you have somebody who could watch your kid for you? We will now because our closest family is three hours away, but we recently acquired an apartment, thank God, in a complex that's an hour away from work, but we actually have friends that live in the complex that would be willing to watch our fun from time to time. Well it might be for 30 days you ask them, tell them, hey, we're in a mess. And the moment you get off, you're going straight to drive Uber or deliver Uber Eats or deliver Instacart. And all we're trying to do is get $1,000, get $1,000.

You are going to get $1,000 in your account and you're going to take a deep breath for the first time in a long time. Okay? And you're going to do whatever it takes. Even if it's I'm staying with friends, I'm going to get plugged into a local church and do whatever you can to get there. Baby step two is listing all the debts smallest to largest, regardless of the interest rate and attacking it with a vengeance, with all the margin you can muster up, with all the

income you can create, with all the expenses you can shave down. And it might be hard at first, but when you knock out that first debt, you are going to be on cloud nine and you're going to feel like, oh when you knock out that first debt, you are going to be on cloud nine. And you're going to feel like, oh my gosh, we can do this thing. And you're going to knock out the next debt, and the next debt. What does that do? It frees up the payments on those, now giving you a bigger snowball to keep rolling. And that's called the debt snowball method. Okay.

And once you do that, over the next, you know, it may, what's the total amount of debt you guys have? I would say between $ and 30 thousand dollars. You guys can do this. Easy. You make 75k, you got 25 to pay off. We've heard much smaller incomes with much bigger numbers and they were able to do it. So I want you, the key to all of this is just believing that you can do it. And we're going to help you and walk with you by giving you one year of Financial Peace

University. Watch all nine lessons with your husband to to get fired up to give you knowledge, to give you motivation. We're going to give you one year of every dollar premium to get on a written plan, a budget every single week. You're tracking every expense, making every dollar stretch as far as it can go. And I want you to call us back when you're debt free and share your story because it's going to give so many other people out there hope who didn't think it was possible for them. Hang on the line. Jenna is going to pick up. We are rooting for you. We are in your corner. Please call us back if we can help in any other way.

This is the Ramsey show between Christmas shopping and holiday get togethers. Investing might be the last thing on your mind, but there are certain things you might need to take care of before the year ends and you don't have to do it alone. The smart Vestor program can connect you with a financial advisor near you. Whether you've got questions about retirement planning, required distributions, or anything in between, a SmartVestor Pro will walk you through

what you need to know. Head to ramsysolutions.com slash SmartVestester to get connected. Ramsey Solutions is a paid, non-client promoter of participating pros. Learn more at ramsysolutions.com slash smartvester. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. If you're a fan of this show,

be sure to check out my friend Dr. John Deloney's show. It's on YouTube and podcast, and he does it right next door to the studio. And it's a real good one. And if you want more from me, which is a rare small group of people, you can check out Smart Money Happy Hour podcast I have with Rachel Cruz.

That's real fun. And then a brand new YouTube channel where I'm making hopefully fun, entertaining personal finance videos, breaking down all the traps and trends to help you guys. So go check that out. You're blowing by me numbers wise. Well, I think it's because I went all in.

I'm a YouTuber, like a true YouTuber. Yeah, you're like a YouTube native. Quick edits, highly produced, a lot of pop culture and memes, you know, less sad calls that are people in really tough situations. So I have that going for me. And they're short. Well, it's crushing, dude.

You're long-winded, I'm short-winded. You told me not to talk about your height on the air anymore, so I won't, but... Leave it alone, John. But... All right. Let's go to the phones. Caleb is up next in Chattanooga, Tennessee. Caleb, welcome to the show. Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call. What's going on?

Well, I'm having some financial struggles with my girlfriend. Really, like, I'm doing alright myself. We have separate bank accounts. You know, I've never really thought of combining them or anything, but she just hasn't been paying like her finances very well. And it's kind of putting like a real strain on our relationship. In what way? What's your involvement with her money? She hasn't been able to help out with any of the bills. We live together. Ah, there it is. Okay. So a lot of combined bills. She can't pay the bills? No, like she can hardly even pay her own bills

why and she working full-time yes and no relocated okay and that that was the issue like she took a job that didn't really pan out and so for about a month or two there she really didn't have the income coming coming in okay and you know on top of that she didn't really have any money saved up to fall back on so she was putting stuff on credit cards. So you're are you covering all the bills right now? Yeah, like so. The Household bill.

Caleb, is the problem financial or is the problem you're growing increasingly? Disgust is probably a strong word, but you're growing increasingly frustrated by the character of the person you're trying to play house with. Yeah. I mean- Like, I don't want to, like, are you starting to believe, like, I don't know if I want to

be married to someone who rolls like this? Yeah. I mean, that's definitely, I think you kind of hit the nail on the head right there. Okay. Because here's the deal. One, George and I are both going to tell you, if you're not married, and we can say there's a moral issue, fine, but there's a legal issue.

If you're not married, paying each other's bills, playing house, paying each other's bills, it just makes for a mess, dude. If you own a house together, the whole thing is just so complex. And so we would tell you, man, if you're gonna play house, get married, and, because at least there is some legal protection

as you separate things out, if things go sideways. If you're just dating, it just turns into World War III and IV and V. But beyond that, man, both George and I are married. We both are all in on the woman that we are with. And if there's a season where we gotta do extra, that's what, I mean, there's no problem there. That doesn't seem to be your issue. That seems to do extra, that's what, I mean, there's no problem there.

That doesn't seem to be your issue. That seems to be like, you're just getting increasingly frustrated that this is who I'm dating? This is a, like, come on! And she's just like, nah, you got it. Is that right? Yeah, I mean, that's definitely,

you're going down the right hole there. I mean, what kind of frustrates me is, I feel like a pressure, like she wants our relationship to move to like the next level. What is the next level? You guys are already living together. That would be like marriage or kids.

Ah. And I'm not comfortable doing that with her because of her finances. Have you told her that? Hey, hold on. It's not because of her finances. It's because of her character. They are expressing themselves in her finances. Don't get those two screwed up because she's going to make you a bunch of promises and say, okay, well, I'll pay my credit card off and I'll go get another job. That's not going to cure the underlying, which is, eh, I'll do whatever I want. I don't have to participate in building, creating a home together. And also in her defense, y'all are kind of just making up the, I mean,

you're just, eh, it's very wishy washy and it's hard to anchor into wishy washy, right? Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Have you had a conversation with her yet about all this? anchor into wishy washy, right? Yeah, yeah, I agree. Have you had a conversation with her yet about all this? Yeah, I have and it just ends in like arguments and yelling and stuff. I'm just kinda at my wit's end because even as we speak, like she's getting,

like opening up new credit card accounts and stuff like that. Have you said to her, have you said to her, being in debt scares me to death. And when you borrow money, I can't breathe. And moving forward in my home, the home that I want to raise kids in and build a family with, we are going to be people who don't borrow money. And so if that's the way you want to get through your world, I love that you are opting out of relationship with me. Have you said that?

No, I haven't. Have a backbone, man. You got to stand up and speak your virtues out into the world. Because you're going to wake up three years from now, you're gonna have two kids, you're gonna be considering a wedding, and you are not even gonna know what day it is, you're gonna be so frustrated. Is that fair?

Yeah. I would never, and listen to me, don't go tell them, be like, hey, I called these guys on the radio, they told me to dump your butt, that's not what we're saying at all. I'm telling you, the only thing in the world you can control is your thoughts and your actions.

So you go be a person of character and say exactly what you need and what you feel. And then she gets to opt into that and y'all create a life together, or she gets to opt out of that and have a bunch of shiny plastic toys. That's it. I know I made that sound real simple. I know it's super, way more complex than that.

But Caleb, this is, this is eating you alive, man. This is turning into resentment. This is turning into you feeling like you're enabling her poor decisions. And if I'm in your shoes, I just go, this relationship isn't working. Our values are too dissimilar for this to work. And I wish you the best.

And you know what that means? Someone's got to move out and it's going to get real awkward real quick. Cause your first thoughts are going to be like, dissimilar for this to work. And I wish you the best. And you know what that means? Someone's gotta move out and it's gonna get real awkward real quick. Cause your first thought is gonna be like, I've been paying the bills. And she's gonna say, bye Felicia. And the whole, then the whole thing starts over.

They hold, then George and I high five and we're like, told you so. But we won't do that. I know the next few steps are gonna be real hard, but what's even harder is just sticking this out, hoping things change and it just gets worse. And then you've got a lot of resentment. And John Delaney, he quotes another

super smart psychologist guy who said, "'Choose guilt over resentment.'" Yeah, you just- And you're gonna feel guilty. You're gonna go, "'Ah, she's already gone through a tough time. "'I can't believe I could do this to her.'" But man, it's gonna eat you up. Choose that over hating the woman that you love, right?

Or hating your mother-in-law or hating your dad. Choose guilt, choose the boundaries, right? And it goes back to, I don't think I've talked about it yet, but I think I've talked about it a little bit. It's a secret? Well, it's just like, I got a new book coming out in the fall.

But one of the discussions comes from the great Michael Easter, which like, you gotta, it's hard, it's life is hard if you are overweight by a hundred pounds. It's hard. And it's so hard to lose a hundred pounds. So you're not toggling between a one's real easy and one's real hard.

My life is super simple if I'm 100 pounds overweight and my knees hurt and my back hurts and I'm exhausted. And it's not, you're not choosing between a real fun time and a hard time losing weight. They're both hard. Right now, what he's choosing is, nobody taught that dude how to say his needs out loud. And nobody taught him how to sit down with somebody

and build a picture of what marriage could look like for us and building a life and a home together. No one's done that. Doing that will be almost impossible. And living with somebody that you don't share their values and they are just digging a hole that expect you to clean up, that's hard too. So it's not an easy, one's easy and one's hard.

They're both hard. You gotta just choose your hard, right? One's gonna lead leave lead to freedom. What's the path? That's right? That's a good word one path heads heads to freedom I'm wishing you the best your heart man that puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books my thanks to all the folks in The booth keeping the show running my co-host dr. John Delaney and you America will be back with you before you know What up what what up? It's Dr. John Delaney from The Dr. John Delaney Show with some amazing news. The latest episode of United States of Anxiety is available right now exclusively on the

Ramsey Network app. This docuseries follows real people from my show as they embark on a 90 day journey to transform their lives and I personally walk alongside them every step of the way. Okay, now here's a sneak peek of what the new episode is all about and don't forget to click the link in the show notes to download the app. What's up Kelsey? So I've lived with crippling anxiety for as long as I can remember. How do I stop it from constantly coming up in different areas of my life? What does crippling anxiety mean? Paint me a picture of that.

All right, so you ready to jump in? I'm ready to jump in. We're gonna check in with Kelsey, 30 days, 60 days, 90 days. I cannot even function because I'm just crying. My mom left us when I was four. I truly felt like for a while I had no family. She's experiencing things that really hurt a long time ago. Tell me about this boy.

He triggers me a lot. Scared of losing Paul, scared of doing the wrong thing, scared of not being enough. It just feels like it would be exhausting to be Kelsey. It is. Whenever somebody's playing whack-a-mole with their anxiety, when it just keeps moving, that tells me the underlying system's not OK.

How do I get my inner child out of this relationship? Because I feel like she's running the show. One of two people that's supposed to never leave took off. How is this burden? You burden, that's right. To the one person who should carry it. All of it. Did you ever tell that little girl that it wasn't her fault? I don't know what to do. You either have to choose to let this guy love you,

or you gotta choose to let this guy go.