The Ramsey Show - Huge Wins Happen One Small Step at a Time

Episode Date: June 7, 2024

💵 Sign-up for EveryDollar today - The simplest way to budget for your life! Dr. John Delony & Ken Coleman answer your questions and discuss: "How do I cut the financial umbilical cord with adult kids?" "Should my fiancée and I combine banks now?" "I'm over $900k in debt, what can I do?" "How do I deal with my husband's impulse spending," "Why you should sometimes let your kids fail," "Should I leave before more layoffs happen?" Support Our Sponsors: Zander Insurance Yrefy Health Trust Financial BetterHelp Next Steps 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET or click here! 📖 Beat debt and build wealth with the new The Total Money Makeover Updated and Expanded 20th Anniversary Edition! 🏠 Find a Ramsey Trusted Real Estate Agent Listen to more from Ramsey Network 🎙️ The Ramsey Show   🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 💰 George Kamel 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 EntreLeadership Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

This is the Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you with us. We're here to help you win in your life. We're taking your calls, walking you through practical steps so that you have some hope and some action items. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney joins me. Phone number is 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. Of course, we'll take your money calls. We got the mental health relationship guy here, and I love to weigh in on some of that stuff. It's just so fascinating. So where are you struggling in that area,

and how's that affecting some of the money things that are going on in your life? And then I'm the income guy. Winning at work. Let's get better so our paycheck gets bigger. That's my whole theme. And so that gets you through the baby steps faster. So you've got the options today. We're happy to talk with you about your life, whatever the situation is.

Are you ready to go good sir let's sing and dance ken sing it okay great i'm down for it i'll do the singing i can't dance i'm an incredible dancer you got you got good rhythm no i'm terrible yeah i've never seen you dance it's very intentional i'm terrible i mean i'm really bad you know i don't know what the deal i'm embarrassing yeah i can catch a ball ball, throw a ball. I feel bad for my wife. Me too. I just see a guy kind of glide through a room and just think, I'm sorry, honey. Which is why I watched Dancing with the Stars for years because I felt so bad for Stacey

that I couldn't dance it. I caved in and watched that. You just gave that to her. Atrocity. Here's what this looks like, honey. Sorry. Sorry I can't do it, but I'll watch other guys do it. It's kind of one of those deals. All right. gonna have some fun today we always do let's get it started in san diego california and julie julie how can we help

hi guys um well you know i've i've i've watched a few segments of your of ramsey show and and heard a few things about other individuals who have a similar situation that I do. And I'm in a blended family and we both have adult children. And I find that my lovely husband tends to financially support his adult children a little more so than I feel is necessary. Hey, Julie. Yeah. You're super talking around this with my lovely husband, who's just a little bit more than, just be as honest as you can. Sure, sure. Well, he, I don't, I don't agree with the situation right now that his decision on or his his lack of a decision he's not sure what he wants to do he's not sure if he wants so his son recently got into a situation where he was schemed into

opening up an amex card taking out ten thousand dollars how he got this card i have no idea. And then he's now in $10,000 in the hole with no job. And my husband feels like he needs to take out a HELOC or pull his stocks out to bail out his son. How old is his son? His son is 21. I don't see where the big mystery is on how he got an Amex card. They let 16-year-olds fill that crap out. So let's get over the mystery of how he got an Amex card. They let 16-year-olds fill that crap out. So let's get over the mystery of how he got the Amex card. He probably applied for it in two minutes. He got it. And let's call a little bit of bull crap on got the big scam.

No, he didn't. He's a 21-year-old kid that ran up $10,000 on a credit card. Now here's where this gets tricky, Doc. We've got his kid, his his boy but i'm assuming you guys are joint finances as we would teach and recommend julie you guys are in the same bank account so it's our money not his money and my money is that right we we've got separate accounts um so he has the the house that we live in is under his name it was his house prior to just getting married and so we have everything.

We share a lot of things, but we're both very open and honest with what we're spending our money on and if we need to help each other out. Okay. So what's the open, honest situation look like as it relates to this HELOC thing? Have you told him everything you're telling us, how you don't like it? Yes. I i have told him and i said if he decides to do that then we need to sign a postnup that that belongs to him should anything happen between us julie what are you doing wow a postnup yeah you can't triple stamp a double stamp here's the deal you have to go all... You haven't fully been honest with him.

Here's the deal. You don't respect that guy. You're married to a guy that you don't respect. And here's why. He has not incorporated you into his life as his wife. Y'all are two people who are dating, who got married, who are still living like... Y'all are living like college roommates.

Right, right. No, yeah, I agree. You and your husband live like me and Ken do, except y'all share a bed. Whoa. That doesn't happen for me and Ken. I got an uncontrollable shiver here. I'll Venmo Ken money if we go out to dinner.

And if Ken bought something and I was going to participate i would help pay for that like you see what i'm saying it's ridiculous how y'all set it up and expect it to work united so of course he's going to make his own money decisions because he's caring for his own money and you've lost respect for him and he doesn't know that you keep talking about this is money and you're having a hard time being with a man that has adult kids that is not letting their adult actions have adult consequences and he's probably a dad who's a father of divorce who still feels some guilt and he's still carrying on trying to duct tape over that relationship partridge in a pear tree and can i say something too to add to this list uh doc i i think that

she's forgetting that she's a very different person than he is and had they had kids together they would still see differently on how they should parent absolutely so this is part of the issue too she's coming in with well i've got a past my kids are older his are older and i think john's hit something here julie but i think you've got to realize uh you guys don't see parenting the same way. Oh, no, not at all. And let me just say this. Stacey and I have only been married to each other for 26 years,

and our oldest just graduated high school, and we're having conversations all the time about, as we look back on his 18 years, how very different we still see things. And we've learned how to parent on the same page, but rarely, John, are we on the same line. This morning I said I'm going to do X with my son, and my wife said, no, you're not. And I was like, well, I guess we're going to have to. But here's the thing.

We have a context for that relationship. You don't. How long have you been married to this guy? We've been married for a little over three years, but together over 10. Okay. How y'all have avoided some of these harder conversations, I don't know. Did this 21-year-old live in your home 10 years ago? Yes. Well, 10 years ago, we weren't living together.

We started living together in 2020, and then we got married in 2021. But still, he's 17. Yeah. Yeah, this is a weird deal. Yeah, once you get into the post-nups, and this is yours, but that's mine, you're in a whole new, your relationship moves to even thinner ice

and it's already on. Right. Are there other things that he does that you've lost respect in? It can't just be this. No, it's not. Yeah. You need to be honest with him. Yes.

Yeah. He sounds like a clueless husband who's plugging along trying to keep his kid uh smiling and that's not always the best gifts we can give our kids but he doesn't realize that he's losing his wife right is that true um at times yeah i try to get over it you know here and there because i how's that working out for you just get over it it's a temporary fix yes it's a xanax It doesn't fix the problem. Right. Right. And so I think you need to sit down and say, I, not you, I am struggling in this marriage. I'm losing respect. I'm struggling with this and this and this and this. And by the way,

the money with your 21 year old son is just the cherry on top of the Sunday, but there's bigger issues in your relationship now. I feel like John, this is old school define the relationship. Like high school style. They actually need to be married all the way through with everything. That's the bigger conversation, Julie. That's what the doctor's telling you. And I agree 100%. I know you called about a $10,000 potential loan on the house and you just got a whole buffet of things you got to deal with but i think that's the play thanks for calling us we're rooting for you guys this is the ramsey show these days it's not if your identity gets stolen it's when and the only id theft protection plan i have ever recommended is from zander Insurance. It helps real people with real life

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That's what Zander is all about. Go to Zander.com to learn more or call 800-356-4282. The Ramsey Show rolls on. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney joins me. We're here to help you win in your money, in your relationships, and in your work. If you are losing in any one of those areas, even if you're just holding steady, just not really growing, it's going to begin to affect all of those other areas. That's why we focus on those in the Ramsey Show and in our Ramsey Solutions Company and all we do.

So we want to help you win today, 888-825-5225. Arlington, Virginia, Joe is there. Joe, how can we help? I was sitting there, I was talking to, what's happening is I'm getting married on May 17, 2025, and I've been talking to people about joining bank accounts with my fiance. And it's hit or miss with everybody but he's like get a joint bank account and then uh have your separate bank accounts and uh let me ask you a quick question a big thing for a while so yeah let me ask a question on that are you saying that you're asking should we join bank accounts now as in we're engaged or oh okay so this is not your you're not asking

people what they think about joining a bank account after you get married. No, I was thinking about, I mean, if we're getting married, we might as well before everything comes out on the table. So I would tell you, I wouldn't have a job if everyone who got engaged ended up getting married. Okay. And I wouldn't have a job if everyone who got married stayed married. And so I would tell you your impulse is right to absolutely join checking accounts. And the best, I can give you the data that says it's going to be better for your marriage long-term, and it forces you to come to the table and join.

Join bank accounts while they're engaged? No, no, no. That's what he's asking. But I'm going to tell him, don't do it until you get married. Agree. Okay, good. I didn't know where you were going with that. So I get what you're saying. We're going to get married, so we might as well do all this stuff up front. I would wait until you have

that legal protection before you start joining stuff up. Okay. Yeah, she doesn't know the extent. I've been listening to you guys for the past year now so like i paid everything off except my house i'm like i don't want her to know how much is in retirement yet but uh why what else why you're about uh don't start because i don't start

keeping secrets uh well i sold off uh my company about six ago, and I made a lot of money and then put it in an investment, you know, towards my retirement. So I was talking to her the other day, and I was telling her, that was the other thing. I was like, I want us to be retired by 55. And she just started laughing at me. And I forgot what she said. She said, you work too much and you like to work too much, and you're never going to retire. Yeah, but let's go back. Let's go back.

Because we didn't give you a chance to answer the real, why do you not want her to know how much money you got stacked away? I mean, I've just been kind of weird about it. When I talked to other people about it, you know, some of my predecessors when i started my own company before i sold it um they were just kind of you know don't let her know until it's done and over you know till we're married that's a cop-out yeah that's you just you just let me tell you what you just said to me you just said yeah you said i said why and you said well because uh some other guys that sold their companies they said not to so it's all their fault ken and whatever bro all they did was validate no they validated your own fear so what is the reason for not telling her uh i think uh last relationship because we have you know kids from separate uh separate parents so the last relationship didn't go too well and I wasn't married

so there was no legal obligation except my son there so you think going into a new marriage with a bunch of money and a bunch of secrets is going to be the better path? no you're right on that that's like man my last diet didn't work out

so this time I'm just going to put pizza in the back seat all the time it doesn't make any sense what you're saying. The only path forward is to be completely honest and integrity. I also get this. When you're first dating, how much money is in the bank? Let's just go there. In funds, in my bank account, since I paid everything off.

How much do you work? Just total, bro. 1.3. Okay. And she has no clue of that? She knows a little bit. She just doesn't know how much I have in neutral funds, investments. How old are you?

36. Okay. That's a good chunk of money. It's not a bajillion dollars. And she already said yes without knowing how much money you got stacked. So I don't know what your fear is. I mean, she's not a gold dig dollars. And she already said yes without knowing how much money you got stacked. So I don't know what your fear is. I mean, she's not a gold digger. Yeah.

Right? Are you scared that she actually likes you? That might be the issue, too. Bro, why don't you just let her love you? Yeah, that's true, too. I think that's it. And I tell you right now, if you think you're better than her because you sold a company and made $1.3 million,

you might as well just break this engagement off now before it costs you half of that because you're going to lose it. Because this relationship won't make that sort of ego, arrogant approach to love and connection and vulnerability. It won't make it. I just, well, I know I love her or i would never propose to her because i've never proposed to anybody i mean i do know that and i definitely know i'm not better at nursing way better person to be much you know well we knew that without even meeting her so hey here's what love looks like love looks like this is all of me do you still love me and you hope that they say that back.

And you'll take that risk for the rest of your marriage. I would love for you to sit down and say, hey, I've got a surprise for you. I've kept this from you, but here's a surprise. I got $1.3 million in the bank. Yeah. And she's probably going to go, oh, yay. You want to go get some pizza?

You're exactly probably right on that. Or stay inside and eat. That's the way she really is. So let's circle back to the initial question. Is she on board? I know you've been out polling people, and John and I are the latest people to poll. You quit polling people. Yeah, stop polling.

That's a good point. But by the way, we're honored to be polled. John and I love few things more than our own opinions. So that's fine. But where is she at on joining finances? Is she there and you guys were just getting other people's takes or are you guys on different sides of the page? We both are there.

Okay, good. She thinks it's a great idea. The only thing she brought up to me, and we were going to talk about paying it off this week, is she had some medical debt, like seven grand. So she was scared that someone would put a freeze on the bank account. She was straight up honest with me about that. Okay.

Does she have any money to pay that off? We had been working together. I definitely make the more money part. So I've been trying to, you know, let her do her own thing. But I was more than willing to pay it off and she doesn't feel right with me paying it off neither do i yeah if she's behind you and it's about to go to collections and it's going to collapse some things and you've got fifty thousand dollars in a checking account right now i can see you helping out your fiancee but if she's paying bills well every time i asked her about it she was uh no i want to pay it off myself okay didn't

honor that yeah and here's the deal if for some reason joe she doesn't get it paid off but she's trying and you guys get married then it's a wee thing and then you can do what john's saying you paid off that day you stroke the check yeah all right so get out of your head i think the theme of this call is get out of your head and just kind of live inside your heart here on this deal and this you've somehow convinced a woman who has who's a great woman with poor judgment to say yes to you and uh you're probably right i know i'm right that's my situation let me tell you this there's some research on this it's it's called choice psychology yes essentially our brains cannot process.

Go to the supermarket next time and go by the salad dressing aisle. Your brain cannot process 119 versions of ranch. So whichever one you buy, you will have buyer's remorse. I should have got the other one. I should have got the other one. And we can't absorb that many choices. Why am I telling you that? You are a guy who is

smart you're driven you do well in business you've done well in love with this woman and you don't trust you so you ask everyone's opinion on everything from a cup of coffee to a business deal to a marriage right yeah i do and you ask so many opinions that no matter what you do your brain is like oh you should have done the other one you should another one are you right Yeah, I do. And you ask so many opinions that no matter what you do, your brain is like, oh, you should have done the other one. You should have done the other one. Are you right? Is this good?

I don't think it's good. And you don't sleep. That's a good call. I want you to have one or two mentors that you trust deeply. And I want you to begin to trust yourself, man. You've done well up to this point. He needs one of those old cloth bracelets that were hot several years ago, WWJD. We just changed it to Joe. What would Joe do?

Joe, you got a brain. I love the docs laying down, man. You feeling good? You ready to rock? Yeah. Good. Don't join bank accounts until you're married, and that day, join it all up, take care of your debts,

and you'll move on into the future. And tell her how much money you have, Joe. She'll be fine. All right, don't move. A couple quick, Joe. She'll be fine. All right, don't move. A couple quick messages, and we'll be right back with more of your calls. This is The Ramsey Show. You know, it doesn't take a degree in statistics to realize this one stinks.

Ninety-three percent of undergraduate private student loans are co-signed. So when you're delinquent and drowning, mom or papa or uncle Joe is stuck in that financial stress along with you. But there is a way out. Y-Refi. Y-Refi offers a custom refinancing option with a fixed rate loan based on your ability to pay. And the average interest rate Y-Refi offers is 3.9%, which can significantly reduce your monthly payment and decrease your total cost. Contact YRefi at 844-2-RAMSI or go to YRefi.com slash Ramsey. That's 844-2-RAMSI or the letter Y, then R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. YRefi is not licensed by the California Department of Financial Protection and Innovation. YREFI is not authorized by the New York State Department of Financial Services to service any New York loans.

Funding may not be available in all states. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. So how many of you out there are feeling like you've got to stay on the sidelines in this whole real estate situation? You're looking at rates and you're going, should we sell? Should we list and sell our house? Or is it time for us to jump in and buy? And that's a legitimate question in today's real estate market. And the answer is you need a Ramsey-trusted agent to help you make that decision,

whether you're selling or buying. They're going to help you stay on track with your financial goals. They understand what we teach, and they understand the market locally. They've got a lot of experience, and you can trust them. So make sure you take advantage of this experience. These are Ramsey-trusted real estate agents. You can talk to them, meet with them, find the right one, the right fit, and you can find one for free all you got to do is go to ramsey solutions.com slash agent ramsey solutions.com slash agent all right alfred is up next in yakima washington one of my favorite places to say alfred how are you better than i deserve thank you oh there we go we got a ram, Ramsey Show fan there. So why are you so good that you had to call us today?

What can we help with? Well, life is good. Debt is bad. Yes. So I am currently on baby step to the snowball, my consumer debt, car debt. Then I have about $88,000 in student loan debt spread out over 13 different loans. How much in consumer debt do you have? Let's go back a step. Consumer debt, about $7,500. And what is that in? Various credit cards. Okay.

Okay, keep going. And then I have a new vehicle we got earlier this year that's $26,000. I do plan on having the consumer debt paid off by the end of the year. Okay. The student loans are currently in in income-based repayment. Those are on pause at the moment. I don't have a payment on those. What's this vehicle? It's a Suburban. We were blessed. We have a baby coming next month,

so we needed to upgrade in a vehicle. From what to a Suburban? What did you have before? We had a truck. Is this first baby, second baby, third baby? What are we talking about? Fourth baby after many years of our other children. The youngest is eight.

Okay. Did you put any money down on the Suburban? We did. So what kind of equity is in the car? If you paid $26, what's it worth and what do you owe? Well, you owe $26, right? I'm sorry. You owe $26 on the vehicle. So what's it worth? Yeah, it's probably worth $28.

Okay, so you're not much equity. Okay. All right, how can we help? What's the question? So I'm just, I've got the car and the snowball and the consumer debt kind of at grasp, but these 13 different student loans just makes me want to jump out of my skin when when I sit down and look at those numbers well the number's the number whether you got 13 23 300 loans the number's the number and the number you need to focus on is the 88 000 so uh even though it's spread out over the 13 uh and you got this this've got this income repayment plan. I actually like it spread out over 13 because it gives you a bunch of small wins. Digestible.

But either way, my point is either way, you've got to knock them all out. So I don't know what's paralyzing you there. I guess just the fear of seeing the 13 different ones. So I guess maybe I should look at it as like consumer debt, go to the smallest to largest on those. That's it. Yeah, it's a snowball. Okay.

And I mean, that's the reason the snowball exists that way because most people look at like they'll do interest rates. And this is why most people fail paying off their debts. They look at interest rates. The student loans might have the lowest and they'll have an eighty eight thousand dollar hill to climb yeah they'll put three thousand three thousand and then they'll have given six grand of their life away and that's still having an eight in front right it'll still be eighty thousand dollars and you're like this this stinks i'm done with this. Versus, you have 13 loans. With $3,000, pay off the first one?

Yeah. Okay. What's your lowest? Let's just walk through this. Give me the lowest number on the 13 loans. Let's round it up to $2,400. All right, so that's your first one. So you think, well, I'm going after the $7,500 in credit cards.

Well, I'm sorry. Those credit cards are spread out, too too how many credit cards do you have six okay yeah this is this is a snowball this is very simple it's a spreadsheet it's a spreadsheet or whiteboard or a piece of paper and we go smallest loan to largest loan can i tell you what i want to i want you to do i want you to do what me and my wife did. We got one of those, we got a bunch of construction paper, like children, and we cut them into, we made a paper chain and we hung it in our bedroom. I hung it in my bedroom. She was not a huge fan of that, but I just need you to see it every day. And you're going to have seven credit card debts. You're going to have 13 student loans. You have 20 links on that chain, plus your car.

And I want you to pay one off, and you're going to tear one down, and suddenly you're going to have 19. You're going to pay off another one two months later, and you're going to have 18. And you're going to start knocking these things out, and you'll see a lot of progress, and you'll start feeling good about yourself. Right now it just feels like a huge jumbled mess in your head, right?

Yes, it does. Yeah, get it out of your head and get it on paper and look at it and say okay i got 20 of these little little things they get smallest they get small and they get bigger but we're gonna get the small ones down and you're gonna have two or three left and they're big and they're gonna suck and you're gonna get them knocked out what's your income and what do you do i'm a delivery driver i make 22 an hour 40 hours a week. Is your wife working outside of the home? No. Well, she was starting to start a new career. Then the baby surprised us, and at the moment, she's not. Okay. Well, the only thing I'm going to add to this

equation is you need more income, and you're only working 40 hours a week, and I understand your wife is pregnant, and that's a conversation between you two on that deal. But I know if I was you, I'd be driving or I'd be doing something else to the tune of $22 or more dollars an hour and let's double my income. Because if I double my income, I double the rate at which I'm paying off these loans. Make sense? Yes, it does. And here's the deal.

John gave you a great prescription here on the chain the piece of paper however you want to do it but you got to get some more income right now and you work as many hours as you possibly can physically emotionally and relationally what your responsibilities are with the kids but you can do more and you need to be doing more and i mean like right away right because more relief comes when you start knocking those debts off. And every time you start kind of moving those payments, rolling those payments over, and the bigger the payment gets as I knock off each smaller debt, and all of a sudden I look up six months, 12 months from now, and I'm making some serious progress.

But it's income at this point. And the intensity you need is the stress you're feeling. You got it? You turn that stress into, I can actually control my output, and I can control what I go and earn. And so I'm going to focus on that and not be stressed by the payments. Got it? Got it.

All right. You fired up, or are you still overwhelmed? The motivation's there. Okay. Kind of taken back by the call, but the motivation's there. I want another baby. We've got to start thinking about our retirement. We're almost 40.

There you go. I want you to keep these two words in your mind, little wins. Little wins. Little wins. Little wins. Yeah. Nobody increases their bench press by just going really hard over a weekend. You lift weights every week, week after week after week after week, and you look up in six months and a year and two years,

and you're much stronger. It's just little wins. You've got to keep showing up. Yeah, that's right. That's why, by the way, Dave came up with that concept that really took off baby steps. Because what he figured out in such a genius way of listening to his audience many decades ago is this idea that I get that little win through a baby step because I realized I can do that. And it feels good. Feels good. I can pay off $1,200. I don't know if I can pay off $200,000. Yeah. You can't just pay off $200,000.

No. I'll pay off $200,000. I'll pay off $700,000. I'll pay off $900,000. That's right. Yeah. That's the magic. Good stuff.

Alfred, hang in there, buddy. You're okay. We've talked to people with a whole lot less gumption and a whole lot worse situation than you, my friend, and you're highly motivated. You're a good dad. You're good hubs, and you're going to win on this deal. So stay with it. All right. You all stay with us. We got a quick break and we'll be right back. This is the Ramsey Show. You've worked, saved, sacrificed, and been gazelle intense with your financial game plan.

But do you have the right defense in place, like the right health insurance? Look, you can't walk past a doctor's office these days without getting a massive bill. And if you don't have health insurance, a major medical situation can undo all of your hard work. That's where my friends at Health Trust Financial can help. They work for you, not the insurance company. So they find you the right health insurance and they save you money. Ramsey has recommended Health Trust Financial for two decades because they're the experts. And whether you're 19 years old or 90, you can trust them to do two very important things. Listen to you, then find you health insurance coverage with everything you need and nothing you don't. Health Trust Financial is your one-stop shop for unbiased advice about

affordable health insurance options. They could save you hundreds of dollars a month, so make sure you're not overpaying. Go to healthtrustfinancial.com today. healthtrustfinancial.com today. HealthTrustFinancial.com. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. We are here for you to help you win financially, relationally, professionally. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney is with me this hour. Clinton is going to join us now in the Motor City, Detroit, Michigan.

Clinton, how can we help today? Thanks for having me on. You bet. I am currently 982K in debt. Whoa. I got two mortgages on that, which makes up the large percentage of that, but it is still roughly about $100,000 in consumer debt. And I'm curious if there is a recommendation about selling the rental property. It kind of makes me nervous

due to the fact that we moved and we own a different house in a different state, and I'm renting that out. Okay, so give us the details. So let's stop right here. So we know what we're dealing with. So you are in the Detroit area. Where is the rental house? How much do you owe on it? And how much could you sell it for today? I need those three answers. Okay. It's Seattle, $475,000. And I believe I can, I'm seeing other things go up for $700K, and so I'll be conservative and say I could probably easily sell it for $650. All right, I like that number, $650. Okay, and you're $0.475 on it.

And so your question to us is, should I sell it and take the profit from that and put it to my debt? Yeah, I may be able to make it out of that sale, you know, and straight into baby step four. I think that might even give me enough for my savings and to pay off the rest of my... I would hang up with us right now and call a realtor in Seattle and have that house listed within the next 30 minutes if I could. The question is because I have tenants currently living in it, and I'm not sure how that works. Well, tell us. What do you got?

What's your agreement with them? Well, we have a 12-month agreement that started on April 1st, I believe. Just off the top of my head. 12-month agreement, and I told him that if he were to make the payments on, because he wanted to do 24 months, and I told him if he made his payments every month on time, then I would give him a six-month extension, so that would put him at 18 months, and I wouldn't hike the rates on him.

And then at the end of the 18 months, I would have to maybe just adjust for inflation or something like that. I think you've got to figure out what Seattle's, what Washington's rules are on tenant law, and are you allowed to sell the property even though it's under contract, and how much notice you have to give them, things like that. It's worth paying a lawyer, somebody who knows what they're doing, because things change.

And I totally get the conviction here to not do these people wrong, but I think there's a middle ground here i don't think just you know let's say that you find out that you you can just willy-nilly sell it probably can't in washington state my guess is there they've got some protections there um but if you can come to a man-to-man agreement kind of a hey here's where i'm here's where i'm sitting and um i know that you know and i i think there's the law, and then there's a civil conversation. The right thing to do, yeah. And I would try both.

See what your options are legally, but still be – and by the way, you're a good person. That's why you called. So I'm not worried about you doing something wrong to these folks. But outside of that, once you know your legal options and if you have an option to shorten the term of this deal and get out of it so you can sell the home, you can still be kind and sit down with them and try to figure it out. John, you got something? Yeah, this is just me looking at a quick look on the internet. It says to sell a rental property with tenants in it in the state of Washington, you can wait for the tenant's lease to expire or negotiate with a tenant regarding early move out. So there's your option, it looks

like. So maybe you give them, say, hey, I'll give you a free month, but we're going to need to cut this thing short because I got to sell this property. My finances aren't what I thought they were here in my new town. Or you honor your 12-month agreement and you learn a long, harrowing, frustrating lesson. And hopefully this is a good tenant. It's a good person of character and they pay every month. And then when it's over, you don't extend the lease and you sell the property. I know it's an ignorant thing to say, but I do trust the tenant will pay because he seems like a good tenant that I have in there now. Another option was possibly a lease option where I get a large chunk change down now to lock in the

price at a later date. And then, so that way the big chunk of change helped me pay off the debt. And then- Can I just interrupt you? Yes. You've tried to do these little whoop-de-doos and rigamarous, and that's what got you in this exact situation. Just don't get cute with it. Just let the lease roll out or negotiate with the guy and then sell the property when it's free and clear. Yeah. But if you do a lease with a big chunk down,

and then I'm going to do this, I'm going to triple stamp with double stamp, I'm going to slap it up, flip it, reverse it. You're going to do all these things, and you're going to find yourself in another weird situation where you owe a million dollars, dude. Yeah. Are you really tight as it relates to your margin right now,

and that's why we're doing this, or can you make some momentum, keep going on the snowball while we're waiting to figure out this purchase, I mean, excuse me, the sale of this property? What's your situation? We're not tight. It is, you know, we make 250 a year. So you can, my point is you can still make progress. And what John and I want you to know

is you need to be attacking the debt while we're figuring out, don't just like put it on cruise control and wait for the sale of this house to make everything clean. Make sense? Um, yeah, I was watching a different podcast and I saw the brand deal on there, the Theo Vaughn podcast, and that convinced me to sell my truck. Good for you. Wow. Way to go. Yeah.

So I'm still waiting for the check to clear, but that's an extra $21,000 I'm going to be able to drop down on the bed. So then you got it. You're on this, man. Thanks for the call. By the way, I'm going to highly recommend, since Rachel Cruz is in the kids' book thing now, you should, after the whoop-de-doos and rigamarous, I feel like that's your next installment. It's kind of your own Dr. Seuss line. And the kangaroos, that's right. Whoop-de-doos and rigamarous.

Ken the Kangaroo. If I could have a title character, I would really appreciate it. I'm going to roll with Ken the Kangaroo and the rigamarous. I love it. It's going to be obnoxious, insane, financial hula hoops people find themselves in. It had a ring to it. I wanted to call that out. We'll put it on the table for John's next few product lines.

All right, next is Catherine in Milwaukee. Catherine, how can we help today? Hello. I've been watching you guys forever. I love you and also listening. And I have every one of your books. Catherine, we love you. Catherine, we're going to make you a head of the fan club.

We appreciate you. All right, so we're up against the clock. I have all of your books. You guys are amazing. Thank you. We've got about two minutes to be amazing for you. What's your question? Thank you.

I actually have three questions. Two of the questions are regarding my niece and my nephew. I became guardian over them two years ago when my sister passed. When she passed, she left $75,000 for each of them in a college IRA Roth. And then she also left $100,000 in trust for each of them for when they turn 18, they can do whatever they want. With that trust, should I be adding more to their college because I know college is expensive? No, not that much.

You're telling me they have $175,000 when they turn 18? Yes. Yeah, they're good. Okay. They're good. A 15-year-old actually is going to do what I did and I keep telling him to live his life, to be his best person. When I was their age, he's 15. He's actually going to be starting college accelerated courses. Great. So he'll be in high school and going to college. Great. When I was in college, I actually worked for two hospitals and they paid my tuition and everything so i had no college debt when i graduated from my bachelor's and also my master's well here's here's a great gift you can give him if you can steward your

your um these your niece nephew you can steward them to still not just rely on this money but you steward them through this process, and then they get through college debt-free, they have a $175,000 launching pad to start their life with. Yeah. Can you imagine? No. That's amazing. I mean, it was an amazing gift that she left them.

That's right. And they want to honor her. Yes. And you do too, and they are really lucky that they got you as their guardian. You're an amazing woman awesome Catherine what a what an awesome story love it great great call there paying it forward that's a real legacy thank you for sharing that story with us all right good hour Dr. John Deloney thanks for hanging and I want to thank James Childs our fearless leader and the merry band

of folks behind the class for keeping us on the air. I've got to take a break. This is The Ramsey Show. This is The Ramsey Show where we help you win in life. We want to help you win in your money, win in your relationships, and win in your work. If you're winning in those areas, you've got a shot at having that freedom that you long for. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. 888-825-5225.

I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney joins me this hour, and we get to the phone. Salt Lake City, Utah is where Aaron joins us. Aaron, how can we help? Hey, John. Hey, Ken. How are you? I am looking for permission to build a second home in the mountains.

My wife and I have been super intentional for over a decade, and I think we're in a position to do it, to pay cash. We're debt-free. I think we just need mental and emotional permission to do this. Well, we can't give you that. We can walk through the decision-making process. So did I hear you say you've got the money set aside right now to build this house cash? Correct. Okay. Do you have any other debt? No. Okay. What's your net worth?

3.9. And how much is this house going to cost? 1.2. Yeah. I would be with a builder tomorrow. I know. I don't see. Is there some fear or is this doubt? I mean, what is the holdup with the two of you? And are you both on the same page on this as to the, oh, we need permission?

What is it specifically? We're both savers i think and you know we just it's been a long road to get to this point it's a dream we both have we both want to do it we just don't want to be you know stupid at this point yeah but what evidence do the two of you have that this purchase is stupid not a lot which is why we're going forward with it okay so i was going to say not a lot i was like i'd love to know what's on the list yeah i would tell you the thing we can give you permission to do is sometimes you have a dream and a goal of something for five years ten years and you get there and you realize that life has

shifted and so you have permission, even after dreaming and hustling for this for a decade, you have our permission to not do it. If y'all got here and you're like, you know what, we love having a million dollars in the bank. It feels better for us. And we can just go rent an amazing seven bedroom Taj Mahal in the mountains for a month, a year,

if we want to. If that's the world you want to be in, go do month a year if we want to if that's the world you want to be in go do that yeah but if you want to build this house and you've been saving you got the money go build the house man yeah here's a fun exercise uh Aaron why don't you guys just envision for a couple days just literally go okay you know what we're not going to do this we're going to just bank the 1.2 so what would you do with the 1.2 if we didn't spend it on the house? What would be your natural inclination? Put it back in the market. Yeah. And many years from now, would you be wondering about this house in the mountains or would you be so excited with all the money you made off the 1.2? I would definitely rather have the house and all the memories and the proximity

to all the things we enjoy. Then I think that's how I play this. Every time doubt starts to creep up in a situation like this, I would flip the, okay, if I let doubt win here, I doubt whether or not we should spend the 1.2 because I think this is doubt. And I think if I start to doubt that, I'm going to go, all right, let's look at the alternative. If I don't spend it on something I've dreamed for. By the way, you guys have worked really, really hard. You sacrificed a lot, too, to get here. Right, Aaron? Yeah, for sure.

So then I think you have two conclusions. We worked hard. We saved. We got 1.2. And we did it because we wanted this dream house in the mountains. Nah, we changed our mind. We just did all that because we want to stick it in the mutual fund and count our money over the next 10-15 years it's ludicrous my partner's laughing

over here but i do think that is the choice and i think if you begin to make it that clear choice i think all of a sudden you go what am i talking about why am i calling these two clowns i need to build this house and can i tell you um i'm a nervous spender too okay can i tell you um how i make this decision this is not a ramsey thing this is not a math thing this is a deloney get out of jail card okay let's say you build this house for 1.2 million dollars and that tells me it's going to be a pretty amazing house in the mountains of Salt Lake City, right? Yeah. And let's say the market implodes.

And this house is only worth half. And you sell it. You're forced to sell it someday. You're still getting $600,000. Nobody's going to starve. See what I'm saying? And you got the memories to boot with it. Yeah, definitely not a financial thing. There you go.

Good. Kind of an emotional, you know, like you said, we worked so hard to get to this point. Hey, did you grow up with not a lot? I would say middle to lower. Okay. Because sometimes second homes are for those people, and we're not those people.

Or million-dollar properties, yeah, those kind of people buy million-dollar properties, not us. And sometimes we have these limiting identities that we tag ourselves with that make it hard to enjoy blessings and make it hard to be generous and make it hard to do things that make mathematical sense for us. I got another question on this, John. Is there some type of psychology condition where this is the first big giant, this is the first purchase that's this big for them, I'm guessing.

Is that right, Aaron? This will be the most expensive thing you've ever paid for in one month? For sure. For sure. Our primary residence we purchased for under $200,000. Is there some just basic? It's a million dollars. It's just part of the, this is the biggest thing ever.

He's not been there before. And Dave has helped me because I've never been there. And Dave has helped me personally with sticking to sticking to the ratios yeah so it's just normal it's normal the point is is this is very normal aaron because your brain has never processed 1.2 million dollars in the form of a purchase that's that's 10 that's almost 10x what you've spent before do you have kids i do um is you got their college funds funded i mean i'm trying to think of anything else that down the road you might go oh no i wish we had this cash yeah so first two you know um either out of school or have fluoride scholarship the youngest is still

in high school but yeah we're fine hang up the phone and tell your wife hey we're building a house absolutely you know you'll have fun man a, this is a deal where there are people that live in this YOLO world. You only live once and they're making foolish decisions and they are rationalizing those foolish decisions based on this. But this is the reverse. This is the chance to live a life that you can reminisce on, not regret. And I'm telling you, if you don't build this house, you will get to the end of your journey and you will not reminisce. You will regret this. And this is why we do what we do here. This is living the dream. I mean, when people stand on that stage, John, across the way

here, across the studio, it's I'm debt free. Yes, they're free from debt, but I always lock in on the free part because they're now free to pursue that notion that the Stoics made famous and Thomas Jefferson borrowed it. The pursuit of happiness. Your pursuit's different than my pursuit. And there's got to be freedom to pursue that. And that's to live in the woods by yourself if you want to or live in your favorite cultured neighborhood that's just all whatever. I mean, the point is, is that a place to make memories with your family. That's it.

That's what this is about. Aaron, man, we're proud of you. Yeah. My goodness, you don't need permission at all. You don't answer to anyone. Good on you, man. Wow, fantastic stuff. That's the dream right there.

By the way, it's not uniquely American. That is just the human dream we just heard. It's fantastic stuff. All right, we got to take a quick break. We'll be right back. Don't move. This is The Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. This is the season for Halloween. It's October. We're wearing costumes and we're wearing masks. If you haven't started planning your costume yet, get on it. And while you're thinking about it, I want you to be honest. A lot of us hide ourselves.

We hide our true selves behind costumes and masks all the time. We do this at work. We do this around our friends. We do this around our families. We even do this when we look at ourselves in the mirror. I know because I've been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding behind masks and costumes all the time, if you find yourself hiding from your true self, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can be honest, where you can talk to somebody else and reflect and learn, and you can accept all the parts of yourself over time and start living an authentic life. Masks and costumes should be for Halloween parties,

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Visit betterhelp.com slash Diloni to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp.com slash Diloni. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. So glad that you are with us. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney joins us. And before we get back to the phones, our question of the day comes from Liz in Alabama. Liz asks, I've been married for three years. My husband has a history of making large impulse buys. Two weeks before our wedding, he bought a new pickup truck on a whim.

And since then, he's made several smaller impulse buys like hunting equipment. Recently, we had a disagreement because we had started to put some money away each month to eventually purchase some land, and he approached me about buying a membership to a golf club. This would deplete the money we have saved and add a monthly membership payment to our expenses. I'm labeled as the bad guy and made to feel guilty when I give a firm no to things. We've had discussions about impulse buying, and I have tried very hard to make him stick to a budget

so that we can continue saving for land while paying off debt and planning for children in the next few years. Do you have any advice for dealing with a situation like this? Oh, geez. He's just a big old boy. Yeah. How big a boy are you, right? he's a toddler in a grown man's body yeah yep oh that's frustrating ken what do you think man well we have to retreat back to the budget discussion you have a bigger problem going on i'm sure you can speak to his behavior thing but i think in her situation it's her husband she can't be his behavior thing. But I think in her situation, it's her husband. She can't be his

counselor, his therapist. She's got to be his wife. And I think in this case, it's reminding him of the commitment that we made to the budget to actually say, we're going to buy some land. That's a part of our dream, whatever that equation is that they've laid out, the fact that they want kids, what's that going to look like? And she has to hold him to this shared vision that they've laid out, the fact that they want kids, what's that going to look like? And she has to hold him to this shared vision that they've at least talked about, and it appears that he's agreed to. And I think that's the advice I'd give is go back there and go, hey, listen, I'm actually not anti-golf club. I'm not anti-hunting. I'm not anti any of these things. But each of these things is requiring financial resources we have a limited pool

so i'm not trying to be i feel like i'm coming across like this i would just really own it and share the heart here and i would hope that he could at least see and feel her safety issue there around money and go oh i'm making my wife feel very unsafe. When I put her as the adult and I'm going to act like a child. Right. Right. Yeah. And this, he has a history of making large impulse buys. He's a toddler, right?

That's what toddlers do. That's what children do. And so I, man, Ken, you nailed it. I think sitting down and saying, I'm losing respect for you because you are making me responsible for all of our family's future. And when I said I do, and you said you do, we decided we're going to do this together. And, um, it's not my job to be your mother. Right. And I want to add one more thing liz it's gonna sound like i'm defending him i'm not in any way but there is a transformation that happens and he may have to practice some new behaviors

he maybe has always been impulsive that's just the way he rolls and he's he's been married for three years he's got to learn how being a teammate works and so he might say hey i need you to call me out when you see it you get to choose if you take that role on you get to choose to not feel guilty just because he's like oh yeah oh yeah okay okay okay okay i totally forgot because somebody at work was like hey i got a golf membership i'd love for you to join us it's going to help your career it comes home all excited sure and you are the reminder because that's the role you took on. Hey, remember, we got this shared vision.

Okay, you're right. You're right. You're right. Don't feel guilty over that. Right? That's your commitment. Right? And then if you ask him, don't ever bring me another thing ever to this house.

Well, that's going to shut him down. Right? So we're going to do this thing together. And if you agree, you're right. I'm going to walk alongside you as you learn to grow up and you do it really fast. I'm going to choose to not feel guilty when I uphold the thing that we agreed on, and hopefully he'll carry his share of the burden as well. Yeah.

Wow. Tough stuff, but it can be done. But you've got to draw some lines in the sand and appreciate the question. All right, let's go to Fairmont, Minnesota, and Eric is there. Eric, how can we help? Hey, thanks. Long-time listener of the Dave Ramsey Show. So my wife and I are kind of in a tough spot here, and we need some advice.

Big believers of Dave Ramsey's principles. To make a long story short, our son, who's three, may be ineligible for insurance later in life based on some things we're going to have to have done soon. And we do have some life insurance for him now, mostly basically a burial policy. But based on some findings, the doctors have found he may be ineligible for insurance later on in life. And so we are looking to see if we should get some additional life insurance for him. And if so, what's the kind of best product to get? Because, again, we're thinking about 30, 40 years down the road for him, if need be.

Okay. So I'm sorry you're going through this. What's happening? And do I hear you properly that they do expect a 30 to 40-year lifespan and beyond? Is that what you're hearing? And so that's what this would be for, is to buy it now and try to fund it now because he won't be eligible for it as he gets older. Is that what's going on?

So we don't know. We don't have appointments scheduled, but we need to make some appointments to get him in to see what's going on. He basically broke his leg. They saw some spots on his bones, and they did a full-body x-ray and found lots of spots. And they've said it could be one of two things. One could be 10% chance of cancer later in life. The other could be 100% chance, but they don't know until they do some genetic testing. And the insurance companies we currently have, Life Insurance Group, have said that if we move forward with this testing, he could be ineligible,

depending on what the results are, he could be ineligible for life insurance down the road. And so we wanted to know what to do. We do have a $20,000 rider on our term policy for him. We also have a paid up whole life policy, a $15,000 policy on him. But obviously 30, 40 years from now, assuming he lives that long, there's not going to be enough insurance and he just may not be eligible. Okay. I'm going to keep my opinions on life insurance companies to myself. No, okay, I'll say it. Because it's disgusting.

The very fact that what's the point of having insurance if life insurance won't actually take care of it? It's just the biggest racket. Anyway. So let me ask you this, Eric. What's the purpose of life insurance? Why do you and I have life insurance on ourselves? It's basically so that if something happens to me,

it is to replace an income for my family. That's right. You know, kind of thing. And so, I think you have probably done what I would do and gone to DEF CON 1 worst case scenario. That's right. Because as a dad, when somebody tells you your three-year-old may have fill in the blank,

we instantly want to solve it and fix it and cover every variable as quickly as we can. And we go way into the future. And the scientific or the pathology there is called anxiety. We're trying to solve things in the future that haven't even happened yet. And so can I speak real frank? And I would much rather be doing this in person, but can I just speak super frank? Sure.

If he is given a diagnosis of 20 or 30 years and he passes away as a 20 or 30 year old young man he won't need life insurance sure if he is given a okay this is this is actually cancer and we can cure it you're gonna have a long life of 60 or 70 years old he may need to know as a young man, I'm not eligible for this. So I have, I'm going to have to live differently. I'm gonna have to plan and save differently because this particular thing isn't going to be, but he's got a 60 year runway. If he actually needs it at that point, you see what I'm saying? That's right. Yep. And practically speaking here, just jumping in real quick, Eric, you don't have to do any of this. I agree with John,

but if you had the money and you had the margin, it would be better off starting a mutual fund for him now that he eventually takes over, you know, and that's becoming self-insured. Make sense? So that if you teach this boy how to invest, how to save, stay out of debt, that to me takes care of this. Just on a practical note. And so i've worked with parents with with with children with special needs for my whole career and one of the things they do early on when a young child has special needs is they say here's how the world's going to work for you in your particular situation and they begin teaching that way and so what ken just said is wise if when your three-year-old becomes five or six or seven or eight or nine, and you say, hey, here's the set of cards you were dealt.

I opened a mutual fund for you. And so we're going to start putting this much in it for the rest of your life because this is what you're going to leave to your family down the road. That's going to be your responsibility as your dad. But I want to challenge you to stay present. That's right. Stay with your three-year-old little boy and your wife right now in this moment and let those things unfurl as they unfurl. Let those tests talk to you as they come out. Don't project into the future and try to solve future problems. It may be 10% that he develops something later, but it's 90% that he won't. That's what I'm hanging on to. This is The Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show, where we help you win in your life we want to help you win in your money winning your relationships and win in your work 888-825-5225 is the phone number 888-825-5225 dr john deloney is with me i'm ken coleman and uh just a fun shout out to we got a great group of people in the lobby watching the show today you You can always join us here in the lobby, watch the show. We love meeting folks from all around the country. Big contingent from Boise today, I've noticed. And by the way, I also was instructed that you don't say Boise, it's Boise with the, I guess, the soft S on that. So there you go. All right, Jennifer's up next in Finley, Ohio. Jennifer, how can we help?

Hi, thanks for taking my call. I was just working on our baby steps. My husband and I have finished paying off our debt, but I'm wondering what happens if you're a cosigner on a loan, if that's included in your snowball, or if we can officially move on to step three. What's the agreement you made with your kid? So it was that he was going to be paying it. And obviously we did not find

all of these solutions on how not to have student loan debt before he went to school. But so we, it's expected that he's going to pay it. I just don't know if that should be our next debt that we focus on or if we can move on and get out of that debt part of it. Well, you just answered your own question, didn't you, Jennifer? Well, what if he doesn't pay? I guess maybe that's where I'm feeling stuck. Do you think he's not going to pay? I don't think he's the most responsible child of my children.

How about that? How much did you sign for? It's about $25,000. How old is he? He's 22. He graduated in December. He has not found his real college job yet. Still looking for that.

Is he living with you? But he's not. Are you still funding his life? I am not. Has there been a conversation about this? I'm sorry? Has there been a conversation between you and dad with him about, hey, congrats, buddy, you got out of school.

What's that repayment plan look like? What's the conversation been? Yeah, he's very wishy-washy about it. He's sort of like, yeah, I know, but he doesn't make any plans. Obviously, since he's just gotten out of school, nothing has technically been due yet. You get the six-month grace where he should be paying it anyway. So I'm just concerned that we're getting farther and farther away, and now we're going to be on the hook for this money. All of those things are correct.

So I guess I'm just wondering, you know, like I said, we have everything paid except our house. Can you write a check for $25,000 right now? No. How long would it take you to pay that off? That would probably take us a while because, you know, our income and our expenses, we're still trying to get more income. We're working on that, too. But that would probably take us a while. I mean,

you're, you're right on every count you loaned, you signed for somebody that you knew didn't have integrity and you felt bad as a mom for whatever reason, or a dad or whoever signed for it. And y'all felt some parent guilt and some this and some that, and maybe he'll go to college and maybe he'll learn. And you've known,

you kept signing cause you have to maybe he'll learn and you've known you kept signing because you have to do that every year and you kept signing and that chicken's just come home to roost and you're on the hook for it and so it's kind of both and you can sit down and have a conversation with him and say what's your plan and he goes oh well you know but you don't have a lot of skin in that game right because he's an adult and he's living out in the world now right and so here's what i'm i'm he is as a 21 year old is burning his relationship with his parents and he doesn't even realize it he definitely takes advantage of it i know that but he's been taking advantage of you guys your whole life because y'all have let him fair absolutely yes so it's one of those like excuses for him i mean yeah so i it if you

had 25 grand i'd probably tell you just pay the stupid thing off and have your lesson learned and never give him another penny as long as he lives you don't have that and so the reality is y'all gonna have to put on your debt snowball probably yeah i i gotta let it go to default i i think you've had too nice of a conversation feels like you've had the same conversation that you have with this kid this whole life is that true i would say i'm i'm definitely more of the you know mother hen and my husband's definitely more of put the axe down and cut him off and then i feel like i make up for that by being extra nice so so my point is is i think that's a long-winded yes. You haven't had a come-to-Jesus conversation with this kid, have you?

That would be a correct statement. Okay. Does your husband want to have it, since it sounds like he's the guy who goes that direction? He definitely would be the one that would cut him off and not even look back. Then let him let him let him do it it's his strength let's just be honest you're not wrong he's not right i'm just calling this out that he's kind of bent that way that's how he is so you got to go oh i need to go hang out with my my girlfriends and do something while he has the heart i got to remove myself

from the vicinity like i can't even be in proximity because I don't want to come in as mother hen and stop it. So you've got to say to your husband, I've blown it here, and I'm taking responsibility for how I've done this. I need you to be the heavy here. And if he's willing to be the heavy, John, and you tell me if I'm wrong, but this is what I would do, the heavy conversation would be, it's not happening. We aren't going to pay this. You are going to pay this. We just signed up to back you up. You agreed that you were going to pay it. I'm not paying this. Now, we know that you're culpable for it, but again, we're not having reasonable conversations with immature 22-year-olds.

So just be real. The only thing I'll add to that is I'll take Ken one step further. Like, your husband's not right. You're not wrong. I think you are. I think you see... I meant their personality. Yeah, you've been bailing him out and this is what happens, right? Yeah, no question.

How come you continue to do that? Because I feel like he never gets a fair shake, and so I make excuses for him a lot. Oh, he's had a tough journey. How has he not got a fair shake? I feel like he's always been in a situation where something has happened to him, and most of it probably is on him, but I don't see it that way in the moment.

And then I make excuses like, oh, well, he should have known better, but he didn't know this time. So I'll help him do this. Or he should have made a better decision, but now he'll know for next time. But it's a continued, I mean, it's a, it's a lifetime of learned behavior. It's just really, you know, I feel very protective over him. So here's the analogy I would like to use. For his whole life, he's gone into the weight room of life, and mom has run in there and taken all the weight off the bar. And he's been lifting his whole life.

And now when the world is looking at him about to hit him in the mouth, like it does to all of us, he doesn't have any strength because mom's taking all the weight off the bar. And at some point, you have to let him get strong in the weight room. And it's just hard. I'm going to add something. I think it's the heart of letting him fail because you don't like to see your kid fail. That's right. It is. But it's the greatest gift for him right now. Jennifer, I'm going to, I'm going to throw something in here. This is just my personal opinion. If I were you, I'm going to, I'm going to amend what I said earlier.

I think you both need to sit down with him, but I think you start the conversation. And I think you've got to look him in the eye and apologize for what you have done. I really think it might wake him up. I'm believing that it's going to wake him up. And what I mean is you apologize and say, there are many times, and you walk through as much as you want to, what you just did with John and I and said, I did this, I did this, I did this, I did this. I bailed you out, I bailed you out, I bailed you out.

Yes. And I think you have to take responsibility and let him see the emotion because I suspect there'll be some emotion. And I would confess that to that boy. And then I'd shut up and I'd have your dad come in and be the, I mean your husband, sorry, your husband come in and be the heavy on this deal. I think this is a bit of a, um, a confrontation. Doesn't have to be ugly.

I don't mean confrontation in the emotion as much as just the stark reality. This is reality. Life changes today for you, son. Correct. Do you still pay a cell phone bill or his gas or anything like that? Uh, cell phone. Yes. Nothing else. That needs to go into the cell phone. That ends. Oh, yeah. Two Band-Aids. He grows up. And I would probably give him 30 days

because you've given him 21 years. So I'd give him 30 days or 60 days. And then he's on his own. He's on his own. You hate me. You don't love me. I can't believe you. No, we do love you.

We love you so much. We're going to let you go. Oh, it's going to be hard, Jennifer. Maybe the hardest conversation you ever have, but I think there's breakthrough on the other side of this, but you've got to own your part to him so he knows he's not the bad guy, that this is a new way of living. Wow. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Ken Coleman Dr. John Deloney is with me and we are here for you 888-825-5225 888-825-5225 the best way to make the most of your money is always going to be by creating and sticking to a monthly budget it's just as our friend John

Maxwell has said telling your money what to do. And people who win with money, they know what their money's doing and they know why it's doing it. And EveryDollar makes this very simple. It is our system. It is our product. We're proud of it because it helps so many people

plan the spending, track expenses, save for what matters most to you. And it's all in an easy-to-use app that fits into your lifestyle. You can keep a pulse on spending and make progress on your money goals. No matter where you are in the baby steps, download EveryDollar for free right now in the App Store or Google Play today. That's EveryDollar. Go get it right now. All right, let's go to Miami, Florida. Tara is there. Tara, how can we help? Hi, how are you? Thank you for taking my call. You bet.

Awesome. I'm 44. I'm a single mom. I have a great career, great job. I'm just kind of drowning in debt. Tell me about the great career and job real quick. What are you making? I'm making about 95. I'm a paralegal. I work for work for a national, a nationwide firm that does sexual abuse. Uh, so my job has purpose. Um, and I do love it. Um, I just, uh, since 2021, the market down here in South Florida has kind of gotten a little saturated. Um, and my rent has doubled in price. So, um, I'm just not making due. I clear about three grand every two weeks and my rent is 2,800. Um, so I have an emergency fund. I have an investment account. I have a, you know, obviously a 401k. Um, I have life insurance, but I had to stop putting in the

investment account because it's not because it's not adding up. And so I have now medical debt due to an accident, my car loan, and it seems like I keep having to live off my credit card. Are you familiar with our Baby Step process, Baby Step 1, 2, 3, 4? Does that ring a bell to you? I've never taken financial peace university, but I have, I am familiar with Dave Ramsey's financial way. So just want to set this real quick. Cause it's, it's the answer to how we start to walk you out of this. We want to walk with you. You said you have an emergency fund. That's baby step three for us. Baby step one is to get a thousand dollars in a savings account as

a kind of a starter emergency fund. Is that what you were referring to, just $1,000, or do you have more than that? I have $2,000 in a CD. Okay, so that's what you consider your emergency fund? Yes, sir. Okay, so we want the money in a savings account, right, and it is $1,000. So scary as that may seem, we want to get that $2,000 down to $1,000 in an emergency fund that is in the form of a savings account. Baby step two is we begin to list out all of your debts and we go smallest to largest. And those are the ones that we attack. So in this situation, all cash that you have outside of that $1,000 is going to go to that first debt, and we begin to start to attack the debts. You with me so far? Yes. What if you don't have enough money at this time to even

get there? I'm getting there. But one of the things we would have you do is stop investing in your 401k. So now, what is that every check? About two something. I think it's either $240 or $210. I haven't looked it up. All right, let's just round it down to $200 for simple math, okay? So that's $400 a month we just found, correct? Okay. I mean, no, no, not okay. I mean, do you understand what I'm walking you through? Yes, I do understand what you're walking me through. Because we call investing 15% of your income, that's baby step four. So baby step two is where we are right now. Okay. And so we've got to find extra money. We also have to cut expenses. So in Miami, first thing I'm thinking is your biggest expense every month is your rent, correct? Yes, sir. All right. What other debts do you have?

I have my car, which is around probably 11 right now. I have medical, which is about eight student loans, and then credit cards is less than eight. Okay. How many credit cards? I'm down to two. Okay. So the way we would teach you is, and again, and we're going to, by the way, you're a single mom and you're a hero. So at the end of this call, John and I are going to keep coaching you here. At the end of this call, I want you to know we're going to get you set up with one of our financial coaches. Okay. We're going to put that on us. We're going to take care of that for you. At least one session to where a coach can get really in the nitty-gritty with you, okay? We'll also put you through Financial Peace University.

That's right. We'll take care of it. That's right. So those are our two gifts to you. So you're not walking away with this phone call alone, okay? Thank you. All right. Now, here's what I want you to understand.

We have got to fix your expenses because your income is pretty good and it looks like you've got a great situation for growth. So the issue is we've got credit cards and we've got rent that's way too high for your income, correct? Yes. All right. So do you have any extra time at all? I know you're a single mom. Do you have any extra time at all to pick up some, maybe some, uh, paralegal stuff on the side? Uh, anything like that? I have, I have, sir. I put myself on, um, LinkedIn, um, fever up work. Um, I've also tried outside stuff like, uh, uh, Uber, door dash, um, uh, walking Other Dogs on WAG. I also volunteer for a company called 4Kids. It's my passion.

They work with foster kids, and I've asked them to hire me part-time. So I'm definitely looking for outside work. I just haven't gotten a job. All right. Well, just go get something. We're not looking for work that we need to really impress people. We're just looking for work we can do. So if you're working 20 hours a week at a Walmart, $17 an hour, whatever, my point is you need to get serious about budgeting your time,

and whatever time you have that can be put towards making money, go get the lowest hanging fruit for the most amount of hourly wage. Do you understand what I'm saying? That is we just got to get some more income in. Could you do a roommate? No, my son just turned 13 and, you know, he really needs his own room. And my apartment's pretty small, so it's only in 2-2. Could you move out of the area and still be able to commute and not have it suck the life out of you every day? We've tried that. I got approved to buy. So we thought maybe a mortgage would be cheaper than the rent. But the issue down here is the

assessment fees and the condo association. So please's like another mortgage. Please don't buy a house. Do not buy a house. You can't afford to buy a house right now. Yeah. Yeah. We know that. But we thought it might be better than the rent. Hey, Tara, can I ask you just a personal question

that has nothing to do with money? Of course. You're a court reporter. I'm a paralegal. A paralegal. Okay, paralegal. And you work with sexual abuse cases? Yes, sir.

Okay. There's something called secondary traumatic stress, which is super, super real, and I've written on it, I've presented on it. I get it, and that's your day-to-day. Every day, you go in and you go sit with hurting people. That's your world. And that's your gift to humanity, right?

That and the kids, yes, the foster kids. And then you go, you leave that and you go volunteer with foster kids. Yes, sir. And then you go look at your son who's 13 and you say it's you and me, bub, and it's ride or die. Right? Is that right? She's there.

Yes, sir. She's there. I got you. You're okay. You're okay. You're fine. Here's what I hear in your voice. Ken is pumping you up, and he's giving you the path, and you're so exhausted.

Yeah. And your soul is heavy, right? Yes. Okay, I want you to hear us. We love you, and you're going to have to take a break from the foster care thing for a while. Your soul can't handle that much pain. While you're also trying to get yourself to a safe and stable place. And the world needs more of you.

But it can only take what you can give. And you can't give what you don't have. And right now you don't have peace. Okay? So I want you to take a break from that incredible work you're doing. And keep doing your day-to-day job. The world needs you. But I want you to get

some peace in your life so that you can go get those jobs, so that you can get this debt paid off, and then you can be free, and then you're going to be reckless with how you can help people moving forward. Hang on the line. We're going to get you squared away with these free gifts, okay? We love you. We believe in you, Tara. Welcome to The Rancy Show, where we help you win with your money, win in your relationships, and win in your work. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. 888-825-5225.

I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney joins me, and we are together for you this hour. Let's get it started in Charlotte, North Carolina, where Justin has been waiting. Justin, how can we help? Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call. You bet. I have a little bit of a career question. My wife and I are on baby step 4, 5, 6

trying to pay off our house. We've got about $250,000 left on it. I make a good income at $425,000 a year, but I was just told by my boss a couple days ago that we're doing our second round of layoffs and the company, he can only tell me, has 9 to 12. Um, I don't know what happens after that. There could, you know, could be something to save us. But my question is, do I ride the ship down?

It's I've been told, you know, I'm one of the few that needs to stay or should stay, or do I go ahead and, um, try to find something else? Um. The big goal of ours is obviously to pay our house off. That's a major thing. So kind of wondering, and it feels like the right thing to do to stay, to kind of help out. But what I don't want to do is shortchange our family and fall short of the goal. Okay. So let me ask a question. Did you say that your boss told you the company's got nine to 12 months left before it's done? So he basically told me that he could, quote unquote, I'll guarantee my salary and bonus for the next nine to 12 months without really knowing what's going to happen after that.

He'll guarantee his own? No, actually, I think there's going to be quite a few cuts. I know, I'm sorry. So the boss said he could only guarantee his own salary for the next nine to 12. No, no, no. I asked him how much longer we have. We're a small, tight team, and he told me he could guarantee my salary. Oh, okay.

For the next nine to 12. All right. I'm sorry. I just want to make sure I understand this. How many people in the company? There's probably right now about 30. And this next round is going to take us down to maybe half that. Okay. I will tell you, if it were me, I'm sure John will weigh in on this as well.

If it were me, I would not feel any kind of sense of duty to go down with the ship. It's not your ship. I love loyalty. I really do. I'm not going to tell you that's a bad decision. I'm telling you, I would be starting today looking for opportunities to replace my 425,000. I would start today. Now I can, I could be fine with a both end, meaning I'm going to start looking and I'm looking aggressively as though I've got to replace that in the next 30 days. That's how aggressive I would be. That's me personally. And then as you see what the market bears, you could say to them, all right, if I got another company that says they want me and I can make a nice move, maybe you ask for a 60 day start.

So, hey, instead of starting in two weeks, this is my current company. They're struggling. I'd like to be able to help them. You can try some creative things there to ease the burden of you leaving, but you are on a ship that's taking a lot of water. And it sounds to me like it is absolutely going down outside of a miracle. And I would just tell you, that's not your responsibility. No matter how good they've been to you, no matter what they've done for you, you've got to do what's right for you in a situation where you don't have any control over whether the company gets better or dies. Is that true?

Yeah, I mean, for sure, yeah. I mean, I play a key role, but again, yeah, I'm not going to keep this place. John, what do you think? I mean, I'm already sending out applications for you while you're talking. That's right. I saw him. He applied for you three times. Yeah, I've already applied seven times for you while you're talking. That's right. I saw him. He applied for you three times. Yeah, I've already applied seven jobs for you.

Here's the thing. Ken said it. You've worked really hard for them, and they've paid you an excellent wage for your work. That's the arrangement, and that's the agreement. And I think sometimes companies want to put the burden of what like you owe us it's like well no i've been doing my job and you've been paying me for my job and if he your boss sat you down and said hey um this thing's going down and we're about to lay off 50 of our workforce and when you have a small, those numbers sound a lot more dramatic. They're about to cut your company in half.

And so if they did that and he said, I'm literally on my hands and knees begging you to stay. I'm going to do X, Y, and Z for you because I know it's scary for you and your family. But that's not what he's doing. He's like, bro, I need you, man. I need you. It's going to be. And bro, I need you is not going to pay your electric bill when this thing's out. Here's the other thing I'd like to point out, John.

Him saying, the boss saying, I can guarantee you nine to 12 months. That doesn't feel like a guarantee. There's no, he can't guarantee that. He might change that tomorrow. He did say that. Yeah, he did say that. He couldn't guarantee that. But that was likely the situation.

I know, but likely doesn't pay the bills. Exactly. And so listen, how much are you making again? $425,000. What do you do? I work for an investment company. Okay. I'm in their operations group.

How hard is it to get another investment job? Well, I mean, that's the thing because over the last five years, I started as a construction manager and became a principal. I feel like a unicorn so I think part of my question is like I don't I could get a good income I believe in myself but um all right you know I'm kind of in a unique situation okay so let me ask you this how long you've been how long have you been making 425 uh I just got this notch up a few months ago. What did you move from? So I moved from probably about $375,000. Okay.

And what before that? Well, that would have been like probably $250,000. Okay. So let's play about $150,000. Let's say this. Let's say you made $150,000. And somebody knocked on your door and said, hey, for four years,

you get to live outside of the matrix. You're going to get to go to some fancy meetings. We're going to pay you almost half a million dollars. And then when this is over, you're going to have to go find a new job and go back to Earth. Yeah. You would have taken that deal

every which way from sunday wouldn't you for sure okay and so having some perspective on this you want you scratched off a lottery ticket with a group of guys that clearly don't know how to do business because they're about to be over right right and they paid you half a million dollars for the ride for the for the last little leg of the ride that's amazing and so you've been able to pay off everything you own. You're hustling to pay off your house, which is you've changed your family's financial trajectory because you've been wise with your money.

You don't have a bunch of Lamborghinis and Porsches, do you? No. No, you've done great. And so if you go back to $175,000, I see that as still winning in a really amazing way. You see what I'm saying? It won't be the remember those days. I mean, that's the way I look at my job right now.

If Dave Ramsey had said, hey, I want you to take five years off of your regular life, and I'm going to transform your life, and you and Ken are going to get to travel the country and speak and do all this cool stuff, and then you have to go back to the regular, I would have taken that job all the time, right? But that's also a worst-case scenario. Worst-case scenario. And, Justin, you live in a really good market. Charlotte's a great city.

It's really popping, great job market. You said you're a bit of a unicorn. I would spin that into all of those things that make you a self-described unicorn show you multiple jumping-off points. And I'm going to give you my get-clear assessment. I think it would be fun for you to take just to kind of validate who you really are and help you with some direction. So I'm going to give you that with the book, find the work you're wired to do. That'll, that'll be helpful to you, but I would be moving quickly. Like John said, we both said that we're

like, Hey, uh, let's go now. Let's look for stuff. And here's the deal. If it gives you nine more months or six more at that income, man, to John's point, gravy. But man, it's time to move on. And listen, they're doing you a favor. This boss, in the sense they haven't laid you off yet. That was the guy of integrity. Called you in and said, this is ending.

And he's like, hey, I got about this much time on the clock. He doesn't really know that, so I'd cut that in half. I'd say you only have about six months to make a move. So I'd get after it pretty quick. Hang on the line. We'll get you the get clear assessment and the book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. All right, quick break.

John and I will be right back. Do not move. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney is with me. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Ramsey Trusted Pros shop the market and compare insurance quotes so you don't have to.

Your pro will compare quotes, discounts, and bundling deals for you at no extra cost. Ramsey Trusted Pros will make sure you have all the coverage you need and nothing you don't need. Ramsey Trusted Pros are interviewed, vetted, and coached to make sure they're market experts who have your best interest at heart. Do you have the right coverage that you need from your insurance based on your individual needs? Find out at RamseySolutions.com slash coverage. That's RamseySolutions.com slash coverage. Hey, can I just say something?

Of course you can. This is just a peek behind the Deloney home curtain. Uh-oh. We're buying a house, and I went through it the OG way. I reached out to Churchill. Yep. And the main man, David Porter. Took care of me.

Amazing. Yep. He used a Ramsey-trusted real estate person, because i have this weird thing about like if i'm gonna keep saying this on the air over and over again right she was amazing it's cassidy she was amazing okay the zander team was amazing and shopping everything all over planet earth to find the best you went through the ramsey trusted car wash i went through the ramsey trusted car wash and i'm sitting here a guy who

who defaults to being anxious about decisions and i got peace because i got david porter and i got valerie and i got cassie i got these experts in my in my court and it just it it makes me feel good about looking across the country and saying if you don't know where to turn and you get well wound up like i do here's a here's a gang that will walk with you. These are Ramsey Trusted Pros. They're good, and they're good for the Deloney family. So what I hear you say is that using Ramsey Trusted Pros in every area that we recommend will lead to a non-anxious life. Oh my gosh. You see what I just did there?

You're the best. Did you see what I did there? Is this an addition to your book? We just put a little appendix? It's an appendix. An appendix on the bestselling book, How to Live a Non-Anxious Life. One day I'm going to be as good at the radio as you are. Well, it was right over your left elbow. That's amazing. And I was paying attention to you, and I saw a potential promo there.

But in all honesty. That's why you're the pro. That's what we're saying. But all it's to say is if you're one of the juries out on the Ramsey Trusted Pros, they're incredible. Low anxiety. And they take care of you. Yeah, it's good. It's a real thing, not just a shameless book promotion.

Correct. But by the way, you're allowed to do that if it's not your own. As long as you do that for a colleague, it's considered okay. Don't do it for yourself, people. That's fair. That's fair. For those of you who want to do this one day, geez. All right, Ethan is up in Big Bear.

Is this a place? It's a place. It's where Tito Ortiz's MMA right. Ethan is up in Big Bear. Is this a place? It's a place. It's where Tito Ortiz's MMA camp used to be up in Big Bear. I love that you pulled that right out of your ear. Ethan is there in Big Bear, California, a place I'd like to go. Ethan, how can we help? Hey, sir. It's a pleasure to be on the show here.

My uncle was the one that got me onto your program. So I'm 23 and currently on Baby Steps 3B. I'm here with my wife, too. We have a question. We're looking to buy a house, but we're ready to do it. We've already been approved for a mortgage and everything. We found a house we really like, but I have two small questions. One was, I don't know if I should give up the rent that I'm at currently.

I mean, we have a, you know, we have a pretty decent house and it's right off the cliff and it's only about $500 a month. And I'm not sure, you know, yeah, I'm not sure if, you know, it'd be worth it to give up the place that we have now, um a house which is going to be about twenty two thousand twenty one hundred dollars the house we're putting an offer on it's like 200 grand less than what we're than what it's actually worth it just needs work but i'm just i'm kind of at the tipping point whether we should you know make this swivel point to uh you know our next journey buying a house or should we wait a little bit? Am I doing this too young?

All right. Slow down. Slow down a little bit. Slow down. There you go. You're excited, and you've done very, very well. It's that low oxygen up there in Big Bear, man. That's right.

And did I hear you say the rental house is on a cliff? Yeah, not like we're about a – the house is about to fall down. It's about 75 feet away from the cliff. Oh, no, I knew it wasn't falling over, but it sounds like you've got a great view, so there's a little bit of that going on too, huh? Mm-hmm, that's correct. All right, so here's the deal. What is your income, combined income or solo income?

Combined income this year is going to be about $140,000. $140,000, and how much do you have saved for this house? Down payment. At down payment, we're looking to put down 5%. You know, I already have my emergency fund and everything. Okay, and you have no debt at all? No debt at all. All right, you said the house purchase price was what, $200,000,

or was it a little bit more than that? It was $275,000. $275,000. So quick math on that. said the house purchase price was what 200 or was a little bit more than that it was 275 275 so quick math on that so you're looking at about what uh 13 14 000 down payment yeah that's correct okay and what will your monthly payment be it'll be just around 20002,000 a month. Okay. And your take-home is what, about $10,000? Yeah, just around $10,000. I'm a $1099, so I try to be really conservative with my money. Okay. What do you do?

I have two jobs. I'm a very part-time construction job, and then I also do solar as well. Okay. Well, John, I want to bring you in here. The concern I have, he's right there in our ratio that we teach. I'll let you take that, but I'm a little concerned that it's a house that needs a lot of work. It's a good deal, but it's also half of what he said, and that scares me to death because I know what it's like when you buy a fancy house and problems happen with fancy houses yeah well and you got a guy that you know how to you know how to do this work yourself right ethan that's correct yeah it's mainly drywall you know paint

and flooring sure oh okay so yeah okay can i just tell you if what i would do if it was me you you fall within our ratio so we're going to stamp it. If you want to buy this house, go buy this house. You're 23, is that right? Yeah. Okay. I'm telling you, if I was a 23-year-old 1099 guy who was working jobs over here and jobs over there,

I would not shackle myself to a $275,000 fixer-upper just yet. Not when especially. Now, if you had $2,000 worth of rent, but if you look at what you'll, like just imagine this, the $1,500 a month gap between your $2,000 a month payment and your $500, if you just save that $1,500 a month and put it in a pretend house payment fund, at the end of this year, how much money is that? That's got to be at least $1,300, I believe. No, it's more than that. It's way more than that.

$1,500 a month. You've got $12,000. You've got $6,000. It's $18,000. So $18,000 you're going to put in there. You see what I'm saying? And suddenly, you've got $18,000 plus $13,000. If you wait one year, in every year after this and so we buy houses because they appreciate you just found

yourself in a unicorn stable with 500 rent an amazing house at a young age i love the fact that you're out there hustling and i'm hoping that this leads to either you starting your own shop and then you get your feet underneath you and you've got your own business and you've got a reputation and you're crushing it and you don't need a 1099 from other people. That's my goal. So I would love for you to be 26 and have $100,000 cash in the bank. And then you go buy a fixer upper and big bear and it's game on. Do you see what I'm saying? I understand. Yeah, I completely agree with you. The reason why it's so low, I mean, it now it's at $325, but they're willing to take our $275 offer.

It's a foreclosure, so it assessed for $445. You got it. And let me promise you, if you're in the foreclosure game, A, it's always got stuff that you don't know. And if you're a guy that can fix stuff, there's always going to be a foreclosure for you to go pick up for a steal. Always.

Ethan, I'm with John on this. I'd sit tight. You're young. You got a great view. At 500, I would stack cash. Yeah, I would force you and your wife to practice saving $2,000 a month, and then you put $500 towards your rent

and that $1,500, we're going to have a goal that this time next year we have $18,000 a month, and then you put $500 towards your rent and that $1,500, we're going to have a goal that this time next year we have $18,000 more in cash in a high-yield savings account. And then let's reassess. And then the next year, let's do it again.

Next year, let's do it again. I agree. Is that fair? I like it, yeah. Do I have time for another quick question? You do not. We're running to break. Sorry, brother.

Sorry, buddy. I want you to know, as two older guys who are down the road, the world is yours, my friend. You're going to be able to take it all because you're a hard worker and you're a good man and you're thoughtful about what comes next. Good for you, man. Yeah. Stay the course, Ethan. Enjoy the view and that low rent.

That's our advice. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney joins me, and we are here for you. Let's go to Austin, Texas, and Walter is joining us there. Walter, how can we help? Hey, how's it going, guys? I can't complain. I'm on baby step six. Hey, excellent. Well done, sir. Let's not just move by that too quickly. How long did it take you to get there? Well, I'm 34. Wow. About 34 years, I guess.

Okay, I see what you did there. Reason for my call, I've been a police officer for about eight years now, and it's been really good for my family financially, but everything else has been really difficult. It's taken a lot of toll on my family, on myself, both mentally and physically, and I'm concerned for my safety every day. I'm concerned for my family's safety sometimes. And I'm starting to think maybe it might be time for a career change. Yeah, yeah. Well, I grew up in the home of a police officer. I know that world.

And I remember my mom asking me as I went off to college, please don't do that. Because every day my husband went to work, and I didn't know if he was going to come home. So I got that. I got it through and through, man, and I spent my career walking alongside you guys. So what do you think you want to do? So when I was in the Army, I was a crane operator,

and when I got out of the Army, I worked in logistics for a pretty large company um it was a good job but i was young i didn't really know my worth and they were underpaying me i didn't see a way upward and a friend of mine from the army became a police officer and he was like oh it's great you know we get like 300 hours of PTO a year. You get a pension. And I was like, cool, sign me up. He left out the part where people try to kill you. People hate you. They spit on you. Yeah. Been through all of that. And I got an offer from a friend of mine who works for a security technology company to do project management. And I looked into it.

I had like a lunch meeting with his director. I think it went really well. My biggest concern is, you know, as a government employee, I have civil service protection and I have a pension. And those are kind of difficult to give up. I have a three-year-old and a seven-week-old, and I've got a mortgage. But the pay increase from leaving would be significant, and the peace of mind for myself and my family would. All right, let's jump into the fear first, and then we'll talk about your future. Okay. Um, the losing the pension and all of that stuff,

are you, you're talking the time you served up to this point, if you walk away now, you get nothing. Is that what I'm understanding? I get, so I'm not vested until I hit 10 years. So I get some money and I get like a thousand hours of PTO paid out at, I think like 80%. Okay. And then what else do you think you lose? You're talking about the government benefits, like the insurance stuff? Our insurance is okay. Then what else are you worried about if you walk away from the police force? Civil service protection. It's nice to know that I'm going to have a job pretty much no matter what. Okay. So let me address all of those right away. First of all, Walter, you're going to be fine. All right. So I would not put my life in danger,

keep walking through the stress and all of the things that led up to you calling us today, where you've already decided I need to walk from being a police officer. I wouldn't gut that out for two more years, all for a pension. You're going to make really good money, whatever it is that you do. And by using our principles and investing and saving, you're going to be fine. So you aren't doing anything stupid by walking away from something that has reached its end. It's killing you. It's killing you, and it may end up. So let's be really clear about that, okay?

So I'm going to show you a path forward, and we'll walk with you on this process, but you're not walking away from anything amazing, okay? You served, you protected, you did it well, and now it's time to move on so the project managing thing did it light you up from an excitement standpoint of the day-to-day or was it just exciting because of the pay bump no it was it was actually really cool they they took me through um like their training facility where they train the new technicians okay um i actually like working with technology and computers um And I enjoyed managing people.

That was one of my favorite things to do in the Army as an NCO. Perfect. So project managers, this is what I love about this. Project management is an opportunity to do people and process work. And sounds like you did some logistics before and the technology piece and the leadership piece for the military. So that's what I want you paying attention to. What can I do going forward that I can use my skill set? You've got some people skills, sounds like you've got some process and logistics skill. How can I use that to do something I really, really enjoy, that talent to do something I enjoy? And I think that's the key for you. So if it sounded exciting to you and it combines some of the stuff that you're past up to this very point,

you can say, I've been really good at this, Ken and John, and I've always enjoyed doing this. And if we can see some evidence from your past work in future opportunities where you go, I know I like that work and I know that I can knock that out. I know I've got the chops. That's a simple way of going, all right, now I see what my options are. So are you leaning towards this project management situation or are you still kicking the tires on other things um that would probably be i think that would be the best fit uh great for my skill set and what i like to do uh they told me since i have never officially been a pm uh they probably start me out at about 87 to 90 great uh what do Great. What do you make now as a police officer? Not including overtime. I want to say about $76,000, $77,000.

So a nice bump, but what's the future look like? You get into PM, and what does that look like? My buddy who works there, he's been trying to get me in as a senior PM there after four or five years, and he's already making $125,000. Come on. or five years and he's already making 125 come on and i will tell you john that i believe that project managers have a great opportunity to go as high as the c-suite if they want to because of the collective skill set skills that's right as you keep growing i just think project management is one of those versatile careers i agree to set you up for executive leadership the call out i have for you can i can I challenge you on one thing, Walter?

Yeah, of course. You're a guy that has, have you been working nights or working days? I worked nights for about four years. I'm on days now. Okay. Are you working 12s or 10s? 8s. I'm a detective.

Wow, okay, so you're a detective um i'll just i'll just make a great project manager yeah you're making you're gonna make a great project manager in fact you're gonna have to back it down about 30 you're gonna make everybody crazy my dad was a detective trust me um here's the deal you're a veteran correct combat veteran no no no no okay i i served but i didn't deploy okay you're a veteran you're a police officer who's been running nights running days running all sorts of ups and downs and sideways for the last uh 12 15 years here's what i want you to hear me say clearly you're going to take this new job and walter will go with you If you need to go see a counselor

to process some stuff you've seen and experienced, please go do that. This new job will not save you. If your marriage is messy right now, you being home more might pour gasoline on that fire. If you're worried about the health and safety of your family and you're watching the news all day, every day, and you've just reached a boiling point, I need you to go talk to somebody because Walter's going to go with you to this new job. Okay. Yeah. A lot of guys get out of service jobs

and they think that that's going to fix them realizing that it wasn't ever the job itself. It was, I'd created a world that was so chaotic and anxious. And then I tried to go do a service job and it melted me from the inside out. And so, dude, it is time for you to go. I hear it in your voice. Go and go whole and do the work you know you got to do on yourself, on your marriage, with your kids, as you transition to this new role. And you're going to knock it out of the park, man. Yeah. Great advice there. Walter, thanks for serving our country. Thank you for serving your local community. You're the best of us, and I think your best days are ahead.

So go with confidence. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. 888-825-5225 is the phone number to jump in. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney joins me. And from time to time, when we get a question, we don't feel like maybe we can handle by ourselves. We like to phone a friend. And it's nice when your friend is George Camel, a resident financial guru. And so we dialed him up and he joined us from 20 feet away. This is a big honor it's an

honor to join tweedledee and tweedle phd on the show for to end it out in an hour i like that i receive that here's the thing you have to know about george is he works for hours on these little quips yeah it's all i have john it is all you have it's fair that's fair all right but first we got to get to our scripture of the day, you two. So stop the sniping. All right, let's get around the Bible for a minute. Proverbs 29, 25. It is dangerous to be concerned with what others think of you. Oh, but if you trust the Lord, you're safe.

That feels perfect right now. There you go, John. And our quote today from none other than the great philosopher Fred Durst. Where do we get these quotes sometimes? I do not know. Who is the lead singer of Limp Biziscuit if you're curious. So there you go. I think we all know why that quote is in there. It's for John, I know.

To walk around with an ego is a bad thing. To have confidence in yourself is a great thing. Okay. I think that's basically I think that basically contradicts itself but what else do you expect from Fred Durst? He probably wasn't even sober when he wrote that.

Well, number one, you just got to have faith, faith, faith, Ken. George Michael, I'm with you there. Okay, let's get to the phones. Rusty is joining us now in Dallas, Texas. Rusty, how can George, John, and maybe me help you? You can be ringed up here. Can you hear me? We can. Go for it, Rusty. What's up?

So I've been wrestling with something that would help really shorten, I say really, but would shorten my baby step number two. So I have no credit card debt. I have one paid off vehicle and I owe on another vehicle about $27,000. It's worth about $22,000. And I've got two student loans. One's about $9,300. The other's at about $12,000.

So where I'm getting at is if I got rid of this other car that I'm upside down on, I could shorten my debt payoff time from about 16 months down to 6. Do you think that's worth it? Why don't you sell it? Do you have another car that you can drive? You don't need to go buy a new car after this? Correct. I've got a stay-at-home mom, wife, and kid at home.

That's all we have to do. You go down to one car, you'll survive for a while, is what you're saying? Right. How much do you have in savings? Just following the baby steps, so. $1,000. You know, $1,000, yep.

How quickly could you scrape together another $5,000? A couple of months. Okay. So that's one option, a couple months. Here's where I was going. One option. Here's one option I had. So the vehicle I have that's paid off, it's worth about $18,000. So what if I get rid of both, get a couple cheap cars, and then I can completely pay off that $27,000?

Yeah. I mean, that would give you the cash today because you're underwater by $5,000. And so subtract that from the $18,000 you sell it for, you have $13,000 to go buy you something else. Right. I like that plan. I guess where I'm getting at is, we're talking a difference of 10 months, less than a year. Is that worth it? Because I'm going to be going from

lower mileage vehicles to something higher mileage. Well, get a pre-purchase inspection on it. Don't make a bad purchase here. Get a pre-purchase inspection. Choose a reliable brand like a Honda or Toyota, and you'll be all right. I mean, if I was in your shoes, John Kent, I would be selling both and just bringing the car down, downgrading for a season.

Yeah, I think I would. I'd do the same thing. He makes an interesting case, though. It is like, okay okay how much time and money is it actually going to save and then there is the headache for you know and i've heard dave say many times somebody you don't have to sell your car if you can knock it out pretty quickly and it's a quality car so i do think this is an interesting scenario i'm kind of i could go 50 50 on i can sense his urgency to get out of this faster yeah so if you're willing to sacrifice more. Yeah.

And that's where I think there's difference of opinion. I call it a soul tax. So I would do this today because it sits on me different than it sits on Ken. And Ken's like, no, I want a quality car that's going to get me from A to B. And so I don't think there's a right or wrong here, but I'm always going to solve for peace in my home. And Ken would probably take the nicer car that's going to last longer. Fake Ken.

Actually, real Ken. I drove a Taurus that didn't have air conditioning for years because I just did not want to pay too much for a car. So I'm with you on that. I mean, I've driven crap for a long time, so I would actually get rid of it. I could see both sides of it. Well, and 13K will get you some decent car these days, even with the market. Oh my gosh, absolutely. Don't make me start looking cars up.

It's my favorite thing to do on this show. So yeah, I think we're all in agreement here. You've got options, Rusty. You've got options. I don't think there's a wrong or right, but I think we'd all get rid of the debt today. Is that what I'm hearing? Yeah. Either you do it today, sell both cars, down downgrade or you come up with the difference in cash that

you're underwater on to get rid of this payment in a few months yeah that's what either does sound good yeah yeah i think we've got a decision here of three oh majority decision we don't know the three of us never agree on anything we don't it's incredible george george you wrote the majority opinion and we voted with you i wish i had myvel. We need our three gavels and the powdered wigs here because that was... You and the wigs. You always want to get a wig on. I just think of a judge. No, not any wig.

The judge's wig. You know, the one with all the curls on it. That's kind of fun. The audience gets it. Go out to sweet Francis. All right. Thank you. John is the adult in the room now.

Wow. St. Louis, Missouri. Francis is waiting. Francis, how can we help? Hi. Thanks for taking my call. I was calling to get help settling collections. We're trying to go through the baby steps and we've been hung up on this one that's in collections because they're not willing to work with me. What do you owe in collections? Well, and that's the other... It's from my college, and on, like, Credit Karma, it says that it's, like, $3,300, and then when I call them, they say it's $4,100.

So I don't know what that extra that they're tacking on is. I'm assuming commission or something for them. Are there fees? What was the original balance? Um, the original balance was, um, 3,300. Okay. And you've called them and said, Hey, I'm willing to pay 3,300 to settle this. And they say, no, you owe more. Um, well, originally I, when I first started talking to them, I didn't have the 33. Um, so I offered them 15 and then they told me the $41,000 and then

How old is this dad? Like three and a half, four years old. Okay, and how much money do you have in the bank if you were to settle today? We could settle today technically. I'm being a little stubborn about it because they've

been, the first time I called they told me they wouldn't take a check because I was like, I'm not giving you my debit card information. We have $64,000 in savings. So we're trying to settle this for the 15. Why haven't you paid your bills? No, $6,400. $6,400. Oh, phew.

Okay. Take it easy. I got it. I was like, what is going on? No, no, no, no, no. Wow. Here's the deal. Like John mentioned in the last call deal you're like john mentioned the

last call you're paying a soul tax just to fight this thing every day and so if they're truly unwilling you owe 3 300 say listen the original balance is 3 300 i don't know what kind of wacko fees you guys threw on here i'm willing to pay you what i owed and no more okay that's your worst case best case you go hey i'll give you two grand call it good today and i want you to tell them i'm recording this call and if you refuse to take, I'll give you two grand. Call it good today. And I want you to tell them, I'm recording this call, and if you refuse to take my payment, then when you sue me and it goes to court, I'm going to play this recording because I tried to pay you,

and you wouldn't take my money. I like that. That's a pro move there. And you're right, Francis. Don't give them access to your checking account. Don't give them a debit card. Give them a money order or cashier's check. Is this a college or a university,

or is it some type of a trade school? A university. What do you owe a university? That's why, because usually if you owe money, loans pay the university, and you're paying the loan company or the federal government. What do you owe them for? Well, I also have student loans. I have $5,500 in student loans.

That's not what I'm asking. What do you owe the university? Just for everything that my student loans didn't... I didn't take loans out on everything. Yeah, but a college doesn't loan you direct, do they? No, it's from like... I don't remember what the loan company is, but I got my student loan, like Mojila or something like that.

So it's not the college that you've been dealing with. It's some knucklehead private loan. That makes more sense. The collections is, it says it's from Southwest Baptist University. Wow. I've never heard of them. Maybe they're in cahoots with the collection agency because they can get a cut of it or something.

Who knows? I'm fighting it, but worst case, be done with it. Just pay it. Pay what you owe and move on with your life. I'm a Baptist. We like case, be done with it. Just pay it. Pay what you owe and move on with your life. I'm a Baptist. We like getting paid. Good show, guys. John Deloney, George Campbell.

I'm Kid Coleman. Thanks, James Childs. This is The Ramsey? Hey, folks, Dave here. You want to hear even more life-changing content from Ramsey? Download the Ramsey Network app so you can catch all your favorite shows all in one place, like the Ramsey Show, Smart Money Happy Hour, and the Dr. John Deloney Show. You'll get real talk about life, relationships, money, and your career. Plus, the app lets you browse by topic like debt,

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